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37. Devi Hernandez on Family Constellations: A Journey from Sceptic to Seeker · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Kiona and welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:03
  I'm your host, Tracy Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators for and clients from around the world, looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea, and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:33
  Kiata everyone, and welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:37
  Today I have the pleasure of chatting with Devi Hernandez.
• 0:42
  Welcome Devi.
• 0:43
  Thank you very much.
• 0:44
  Tracy.
• 0:45
  Thank you very much for having me in your podcast.
• 0:48
  I would love for you to introduce yourself, so that's what one of the things that, uh, yeah, I just invite the guests to share a little bit about themselves and who they are, where, where they're from.
• 0:59
  So my name is Jimena Hernandez.
• 1:02
  Devi is like the name that my master gave me, so I use it.
• 1:08
  As much as I can, I have a personal practice, a spiritual practice that is at Vita, and I receive a name, so I use it all what I can and well, I, I come from Argentina.
• 1:22
  I have a partner that is from Australia.
• 1:24
  We've been traveling from Argentina to Australia for many years, and now we are settled in Australia, in Sydney.
• 1:33
  And I work, uh, doing family constellation, facilitating family constellations in different places.
• 1:41
  I teach, um, for Latin America in the space that I learned, uh, that it's called Pragma.
• 1:49
  And also I work in the family system hub, um, and doing.
• 1:54
  Like group sessions or individual sessions for parents.
• 1:58
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:59
  So we can help them to have a more systemic view and heal through that.
• 2:04
  No, it's amazing.
• 2:05
  Fantastic, fantastic.
• 2:07
  And you're based in Sydney now?
• 2:08
  No, I'm based in Sydney.
• 2:11
  Yes, yes.
• 2:12
  What I did is what, like at least they, they in the books that arrived to Latin America, they said that Beringer teach that the woman needs to follow the men when.
• 2:26
  There are couples from different countries.
• 2:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:30
  So now we are doing that.
• 2:33
  Not always easy to hear that, but it's not nice to hear it, but, but how does it feel?
• 2:39
  It feels really good for the couple.
• 2:41
  So it was a perfect moment to do it.
• 2:44
  Yes.
• 2:45
  Fantastic.
• 2:46
  Yes.
• 2:47
  So one of my main questions is how did you meet Constellations or when was the first time you experienced a constellation?
• 2:56
  I need to tell you my story.
• 2:59
  Yeah, please do.
• 3:00
  I used to work in.
• 3:03
  Content in enter in the entertainment work, doing TV and movies, things like this as a producer, and in 2001, 2002, I got the, I don't know, the blessed of Interviewer Hellinger because he was teaching in Argentina some seminars.
• 3:26
  So I went there.
• 3:28
  As, uh, I don't know as an skeptic person, but as a journalist, neutral wanted to know, but from a journalist point of view.
• 3:37
  But there was something inside me that, like, he plant a seed, you know?
• 3:44
  And many years after I was stuck in a relationship that we can tell a toxic relationship, and I thought, I don't know.
• 3:55
  I couldn't stop.
• 3:58
  And yes, that relationship.
• 4:00
  So I thought to ask another point of view, and I went for a constellation and what it came through, the constellation was of course, completely different of what I thought.
• 4:12
  I thought that there was something about my father or whatever my mind used to explain for me, and I see completely different things.
• 4:24
  We saw an abortion of my grandma and I didn't know that, at least not consciously, because when I ask to my mom, she says, yes, yes.
• 4:33
  We always knew that, that I saw these things.
• 4:37
  In my system and something after that release, my first encounter with the Constellation, I felt frustrated because there were a lot of information that I couldn't check until I get off the constellation.
• 4:52
  And what it brought was completely different of what I thought.
• 4:56
  Yes, I felt like, what is going on?
• 4:58
  What is this?
• 4:59
  They don't know anything.
• 5:00
  And I left the place and then I started speaking with my mom and.
• 5:05
  Something with the time, got a new flow and well life continue like this until I start struggling having kids.
• 5:15
  I couldn't have kids and I was trying to have kids doing different treatments for seven years and I decide to look deeper.
• 5:26
  I wanted to understand.
• 5:29
  I, there was nothing like we have in our life with my partner.
• 5:34
  Nothing physically, nothing.
• 5:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:37
  Um, I decide to, I wanted to know more and I thought family constellations were going to give me the explanation.
• 5:46
  So I didn't do a constellation.
• 5:49
  I start studying.
• 5:51
  I need to understand and well, and that's how I start being a family constellation before I study many other things in my life.
• 6:02
  Although I work on tv, I study, I don't know, yoga, uh, astrology, coaching, many other things.
• 6:09
  But when Family Constellations arrived to my life was.
• 6:13
  This is fantastic.
• 6:15
  And, and you have a couple of children now?
• 6:18
  Yes.
• 6:19
  And I'm sure it, it was after a constellation.
• 6:23
  I don't know, like I feel shy when I say this, but it was my experience because I don't want to, for the people to think that constellations can be a miracle thing or a magical thing, although life.
• 6:41
  It's magic and there are miracles around all the time.
• 6:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 6:47
  But like, I'm serious of what, what we do and how the constellations work.
• 6:53
  So maybe it sounds like a fantasy when I say something like that, but in my life was like this.
• 7:00
  Did you, did you look at the subject directly or were you looking at something else at the time and then it happened?
• 7:06
  No.
• 7:07
  No, no, no.
• 7:08
  We've been trying to like have kids and we couldn't, and there was a moment that I fell inside.
• 7:14
  We have to go and constellate, but not only.
• 7:18
  Because you never know where in the family systems of these two people.
• 7:23
  It's something that is there stopping life to continue in our life.
• 7:28
  Like we wanted to the life to unfold in that way, and we felt that that was something that was a calling for us.
• 7:36
  So I knew there was something behind this that we need to learn and we sit in a constellation with my teacher.
• 7:47
  In a group session and my partner didn't know that my teacher got so many people that follow, so it was during Pandia and when the screen started and popping up like 60 people, he was like, okay, what are we doing?
• 8:04
  So many people, but was amazing and really intimate and like what it show for us.
• 8:13
  What I can briefly tell you is like we were both looking to death in different ways.
• 8:19
  I was grieving for the kids that I couldn't have and just looking there and couldn't move forward, and he was grieving other death in the family system and seeing that and moving and finishing the situation in the constellation.
• 8:41
  I don't know was the miracle because after that we got pregnant.
• 8:46
  Fantastic.
• 8:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 8:48
  I have seen some pretty magical things.
• 8:50
  What seem like magical things.
• 8:52
  They feel magical, you know, like when you're experiencing them happen in the field and, and we just never know what the ripple effect of the work is gonna do.
• 9:02
  Right.
• 9:02
  Yeah.
• 9:03
  Other than, as you know, generally we feel lighter, we feel more.
• 9:07
  Peaceful or calm or grounded or connected, and maybe that's what was needed to mm-hmm.
• 9:14
  For that to happen too.
• 9:16
  Yes.
• 9:17
  Yeah.
• 9:17
  It, I, for me at least, it's impossible to explain whenever I put words, I think that I. Like diminish the experience and I give to the brain, I feed the brain, I feed that part.
• 9:32
  And it's, it's really so big.
• 9:35
  Uh, it's, it's, I don't know.
• 9:37
  It's like being humans.
• 9:38
  So is that my next, is that my next question?
• 9:40
  How do you describe the work?
• 9:42
  But I don't know.
• 9:43
  For me, it's big.
• 9:45
  Like I think we don't know like what is being a human being.
• 9:50
  We really don't end up understanding what we are.
• 9:54
  It finished here.
• 9:56
  It finished with our family system where, where do we stop being a human being?
• 10:05
  And I think in the family consolation what we see is that, and I think that's why for me was like.
• 10:12
  My goal to do in life my, the thing that I know that I have to do in life because it's like the more spiritual but also practical thing in the life.
• 10:25
  Yes.
• 10:26
  Fantastic.
• 10:27
  When you were doing your recording for Bit, was that a, a recording?
• 10:32
  Is that like a, um, was that a workshop that he was running and you recorded that?
• 10:36
  How did that come about?
• 10:38
  With Inger.
• 10:40
  He was teaching.
• 10:41
  He came to teach to Latin America, to Argentina.
• 10:45
  Many times he did seminars and that was the way that he used to teach, giving big seminars, and then he create a school.
• 10:54
  So I went to one of those seminars.
• 10:56
  That he used to teach and I went there to interview the him and the person that bring him to Latin America in that moment was T Wman.
• 11:10
  Um, um, was who, sorry, Bolman is her name.
• 11:16
  Dunno that, uh, I, I, I can write it down for you if you want.
• 11:21
  After she was the one that create the.
• 11:25
  Berg Hellinger Center in Argentina.
• 11:27
  Yes.
• 11:28
  It's very popular in South American countries.
• 11:30
  Do you call it Latin America?
• 11:31
  I, I think, yes.
• 11:32
  We got the lucky that like someone wants to start bringing him.
• 11:38
  So like we have many books.
• 11:41
  Many of his books translated.
• 11:43
  Many people that I don't know received the knowledge from him.
• 11:47
  My teacher was side by side with him.
• 11:50
  So for me, it's amazing to have that knowledge.
• 11:55
  So direct?
• 11:56
  No.
• 11:56
  Yeah, like after we all do our own thing, but having the knowledge coming direct from the source, also for me, it's something really important.
• 12:07
  How would you describe your style?
• 12:10
  Would you describe it as traditional or something else?
• 12:14
  No, I, I am in Spanish.
• 12:18
  We ing I'm really based off what Bert Hellinger said, although he was saying things, different things during the time.
• 12:28
  But I allow myself to use other techniques or other wisdoms that come from other places, although I explain.
• 12:38
  That I'm going to do something that is not strict family constellations.
• 12:43
  Um, for example, in Latin America, we have a lot of Asian knowledge, shamanic knowledge.
• 12:50
  So sometimes I can use something that comes from there.
• 12:54
  Or from, uh, my spiritual path, or I study, uh, what we call compassionate inquiry.
• 13:02
  So I use a lot of techniques from the trauma because also this is something important now, like we are, we can put name, uh, to what trauma means, what many people felt was feeling.
• 13:18
  Um, they, they are not post-traumatic, uh, post-war stress anymore.
• 13:24
  Like there are actual things that this life are bringing us and create footprints of trauma in our life.
• 13:32
  And with family constellations, we work with that.
• 13:35
  So I use the technique of.
• 13:38
  CI that teach also in the sessions.
• 13:43
  So I work with a lot of somatic, uh, I don't stay only in the somatic, uh, because I think that is also only in the person consciousness and we want to go beyond that.
• 13:57
  No.
• 13:58
  In family constellations, but I use it a lot.
• 14:01
  Yes.
• 14:02
  Do you work with children?
• 14:04
  Yes.
• 14:04
  That is, I don't know.
• 14:06
  This is the wonderful thing, like when you ask me like if I'm based here, uh, or how it feels to be based here.
• 14:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:15
  Like this was something also magical that happens when you are doing the correct.
• 14:22
  You know, like I got the opportunity to work in the family system hub, that it's a place where they work systemically with families, so that is amazing.
• 14:35
  It's a gift.
• 14:37
  So we can work with the parents that needs help through the lens of family constellations, I don't work with little.
• 14:46
  Kids.
• 14:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:47
  But yes, what they bring or the sin symptoms that they are having, we like look them through the systemic lens, through family constellation, knowing that they are bringing a message for all, all of us and all opportunity to finalize something.
• 15:08
  You know, like to really end up something that was.
• 15:12
  In the family system.
• 15:14
  So it's a beautiful thing and a beautiful thing that like they opened me here to do.
• 15:20
  Yeah.
• 15:20
  Yeah.
• 15:20
  That's wonderful.
• 15:21
  Like, I'm like, that's amazing.
• 15:23
  I'm getting the goosebumps that 'cause it's, I know how, I know how powerful this work is and I see the ripple effects and I see when, when children, when things are cleared for the children, how much.
• 15:39
  Change and transformation can happen in a short period of time.
• 15:43
  Yes, it is.
• 15:44
  If you are working with the parents and that's moving things for the children and seeing the dynamics too, because it's, a lot of people sometimes feel.
• 15:51
  Not sure I wanna do this.
• 15:52
  They don't wanna blame anyone.
• 15:54
  Or it's not about that is it?
• 15:56
  It's about, it's not about that being what's there.
• 15:58
  It's not about that.
• 16:00
  It's about love.
• 16:02
  That is the magical thing about family constellations is all what we can do as kids, just for love.
• 16:11
  We can do whatever because we love our parents.
• 16:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:15
  And because we are loyal to what it comes before us.
• 16:20
  So we, without knowing that, we are able just to, to live our life, to give our life.
• 16:28
  So yes, it's amazing what we can do and how much we can help our kids and all the ones that are going to come by looking a problem in this way.
• 16:40
  Yeah.
• 16:41
  Is it used?
• 16:43
  So I know in some parts of South America constellations is used in the courts and in the hospitals and in other Yes.
• 16:49
  Modality.
• 16:50
  Is it the same in Argentina?
• 16:52
  Like in Argentina we have techniques.
• 16:56
  So I know many people, lawyers or people that works work in court, maybe they don't say it that loud because not in every place is look like as a good thing or a like normal thing, let's say.
• 17:11
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:12
  Um, but they use it all the time.
• 17:15
  They use it all the time.
• 17:16
  I have, yes.
• 17:18
  People that work in court, like I know people that work in court.
• 17:22
  Helping, for example, kids that are going to be adopted or things like this with family constellations.
• 17:30
  Um, so can, can you just explain that a little bit more?
• 17:32
  Do you know how they would do that?
• 17:34
  How, what would they do?
• 17:35
  Yes, yes.
• 17:36
  I know, I know like what they do is like, they ask the parents that are going to be adopt or they tell the parents then first if they want to do a constellation mm-hmm.
• 17:48
  Just to check in what is going on in their life.
• 17:51
  How open they are to like take that kid, but not only that kid, receive that kid in their heart, but also the ones that said yes to life because the system, right, you took your child, you also take the child's family system.
• 18:10
  Wow.
• 18:11
  It's like that.
• 18:12
  Wow.
• 18:13
  It is just like that.
• 18:15
  So like one thing is they give them the option to do a family consolation and the other one is just to like, you can do a little meditation if you want.
• 18:24
  I can share with you some thoughts about that.
• 18:27
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:27
  But it is taking in that like, like you can do a meditation, just checking if you can say thank you to the ones that say yes to life.
• 18:42
  And doesn't matter who they were, if they were good, bad if they died or didn't die, but they decide to say yes and take care that soul that now is your kid and many times the people is not open to say yes.
• 19:01
  To, to thank you, to be grateful, but maybe when you can tell them, you only have to be grateful for life.
• 19:10
  They say yes to life.
• 19:12
  We don't care who they were, if they were violent, if they got like, I don't know, some addictions or whatever they said.
• 19:22
  The gift you are receiving, that is another being.
• 19:25
  Wow.
• 19:26
  Yeah.
• 19:27
  Gosh, imagine.
• 19:28
  I think imagine much we could port others in this world if it was more constellation systemic approach to things.
• 19:37
  It's not amazing what we do.
• 19:40
  I feel so much passion.
• 19:41
  I don't know, like it's, it's amazing and, and everything like when the people work, like there are the technique that.
• 19:52
  It's specific for lawyers so they can help people for the entanglements that are around the like court or the, that they are, uh, facing.
• 20:05
  It's a different technique.
• 20:06
  It's not like exactly we, what we do in a group session.
• 20:10
  They have some differences, but they use it also.
• 20:14
  But I think the principles are the same.
• 20:18
  Understanding who is missing, what is not in balance, like all the things are always there.
• 20:26
  Yeah.
• 20:27
  And the resistance to authority or those who come before us.
• 20:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:33
  Or yeah.
• 20:35
  That would be so super helpful, right.
• 20:38
  In the court system.
• 20:39
  Yeah.
• 20:39
  Mm, yes.
• 20:41
  I think the more you do the work you are doing this podcast, the more people can realize that this is not anything like weird or, and they can apply it in many things in life.
• 20:54
  Because for me, the gift of family constellations is all the philosophy that is around it.
• 21:00
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:00
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:01
  You, you need to consulate in order to see.
• 21:05
  How big this is, like all the possibilities that open have this systemic lens.
• 21:11
  Absolutely.
• 21:11
  It's, for me personally, it's been a life changing.
• 21:15
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:15
  Um, where I would think I'd be here if I hadn't met constellations, like as in might have chosen to exit the planet.
• 21:23
  That's how my path was going.
• 21:26
  That pulled very strong in my field as well.
• 21:28
  And now it's just like I'm yes to life.
• 21:31
  I love life and things that, you know, life is great.
• 21:35
  Yeah.
• 21:36
  Okay.
• 21:36
  So thank you for sharing this with me, Tracy.
• 21:39
  You're welcome.
• 21:40
  I'm, I am quite open on here about the things that come through because.
• 21:45
  People, others need to understand or, or appreciate knowing that, uh, you know, we can have our journey.
• 21:53
  And it's always sunshine and roses or rainbows, is it?
• 21:57
  No, my, uh, Alejandra Pictor, that is a really famous teacher in academia, in Latin America, uh, she always said, we all come from the same mat.
• 22:10
  We are lotus flower.
• 22:12
  Yeah, but we all came from the same mat, so if we think we are different from others, like it's not real.
• 22:19
  We're all there in the same, it's true.
• 22:22
  So do you, um, do you also do workshops or is it more in your daily practice?
• 22:29
  Mm, we do group sessions.
• 22:31
  Like think that these are all the things that we are doing in the hub that it's amazing, like we do.
• 22:38
  Group sessions, but we are also working with other play therapists, so teaching the principles of family Constellation.
• 22:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:48
  And that it's, uh, really another like wave of people that is starting to see with other eyes because the play therapies are there help helping parents and kids to heal and through these systemic lenss.
• 23:08
  They can do, they can have a completely different impact.
• 23:11
  So we've been like going around Australia, like sharing this with other play therapist or therapist.
• 23:20
  And also we are going to do a big, uh, seminar in February where my might is coming to teach her technique that is.
• 23:32
  Uh, compassionate Constellation.
• 23:35
  Um, yes.
• 23:36
  So she Wednesday in February.
• 23:38
  In February, yes.
• 23:39
  She's going to be in Melbourne, uh, and in Sydney doing some group sessions, but in Melbourne teaching that technique.
• 23:47
  So I hope you can come.
• 23:49
  Oh, you, you have to send me a link.
• 23:51
  Gosh, things are booking up already so fast.
• 23:54
  I know.
• 23:54
  No, I sent you the link so you can come.
• 23:56
  It would be really nice.
• 23:58
  Well, if I, if I can't, I could at least put it on.
• 24:00
  I've got a couple of pages.
• 24:02
  I've got my own Constellation page, and then I've also got the New Zealand family and Systemic Constellation page.
• 24:07
  Yes.
• 24:08
  Perfect.
• 24:09
  Yeah, so you are more than invited.
• 24:12
  I hope you can come and meet her.
• 24:14
  No, you never know if the dates line up.
• 24:16
  You never know.
• 24:17
  Yes, I hope.
• 24:18
  I hope, yes.
• 24:20
  Beautiful.
• 24:20
  Beautiful.
• 24:22
  Okay.
• 24:22
  What else do you wanna, uh, does the field want to ask?
• 24:25
  How has your family, so your ex, your family, your mom and dad, and I dunno if they're still with us, but how has it been for them or have you witnessed for them as you've moved through your constellations, what have you noticed within your family system or not, or the larger system or what have you seen?
• 24:46
  I cannot speak in general because I think for what I could see, I saw changes in some of them and in different ways.
• 24:56
  First, the one that make the big change was me.
• 25:00
  No, that is the the main thing.
• 25:04
  I was the one that make a big change, but also speaking all that and.
• 25:12
  They saw how many changes I got in my life through family constellations.
• 25:16
  They start asking, and they start doing constellations for themself.
• 25:22
  Yes, my mom, my brother, people that weren't involved in this, nothing to do with that.
• 25:30
  And they, they start doing, they start doing their own family constellation, but because they see me.
• 25:39
  No.
• 25:39
  Like the first thing is the shift that I got.
• 25:42
  Isn't that brilliant?
• 25:43
  They're witnessing.
• 25:44
  You move stuff and then they start doing it too as a bonus for you because there there's Yes.
• 25:50
  You know they'll be moving.
• 25:51
  Yes, and that's why I speak openly.
• 25:54
  When you tell me what brought you to Family Constellations Suffer.
• 25:59
  Suffer.
• 25:59
  Being stuck.
• 26:00
  Suffer.
• 26:01
  And I describe what was in my life.
• 26:03
  With no shame because I'm sure many other people are listening and they feel the same thing.
• 26:12
  Yes.
• 26:13
  And we never know why.
• 26:15
  There are things that are in our, is trauma.
• 26:18
  Trauma a hundred percent.
• 26:20
  The past is here.
• 26:22
  We cannot see through that life because we have here.
• 26:28
  The trauma until we don't go through.
• 26:30
  That can come from, my grandmother can come from, I don't know, whatever it is, and also for this life, for something that happened today.
• 26:40
  If, if we don't go through that and finish that and finish thing that happened, maybe a thousand years ago, nothing is going to release.
• 26:49
  But when that happened, the changes you will see it flourish all over.
• 26:56
  Wow.
• 26:56
  Like.
• 26:57
  Just when you said like a thousand years ago and knowing that you have so much more history than, obviously I'm, I'm alive because there's been ancestors that have lived before me, but that knowing some cultures know that history, right.
• 27:12
  And others on a melting pot, there's a lot of secrets that are coming out.
• 27:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:17
  And constellations seems to be opening the door for me, but have you seen constellations that have gone back and opened that have released things from, from that far back?
• 27:27
  Yes, a hundred percent.
• 27:30
  Yeah.
• 27:30
  Yes, yes.
• 27:32
  I saw constellations like this.
• 27:34
  I saw, I, I, I would like to share one example.
• 27:38
  I was in one constellation.
• 27:40
  I was facilitating one conation.
• 27:42
  The person need to travel to another place.
• 27:48
  It's funny because sometimes the people bring what it's in your.
• 27:55
  Topic of life.
• 27:57
  No.
• 27:57
  You never know if you're working for someone else or you're working for yourself.
• 28:02
  No, and this was a group session and we were there and this person couldn't do the journey.
• 28:09
  She started feeling like every time that she's going to travel to move to another country, she start panicking and they canceled everything.
• 28:18
  What we saw.
• 28:20
  We start talking about different things of her family system and what we realize it that one of the great grandfather left a couple.
• 28:37
  In Europe?
• 28:38
  Yes.
• 28:39
  The great-grandfather left a couple in Europe.
• 28:43
  He got married again, so he left a relationship.
• 28:46
  He lived a relationship in Europe.
• 28:49
  He got married again with someone.
• 28:53
  In South America and he start a new life.
• 28:57
  So when we start doing the constellation, what we see is like she was looking to that woman crying in Europe three generations ago, three generations ago.
• 29:12
  So yes.
• 29:13
  Hundred years, and this is for me also how we connect with spirituality.
• 29:19
  Because like for Buddhism, what you see is like there are things that need to be finished in this life.
• 29:27
  Yeah.
• 29:28
  And she got the opportunity through that symptom.
• 29:32
  Symptom of anxiety to finish and unsolved business of the family.
• 29:39
  100 years ago, nobody knew the name of that woman.
• 29:43
  It was a story like, they don't know if she was alive, not alive, you know, like what happened?
• 29:50
  Secrets if she was pregnant, she left kids like nobody knew.
• 29:54
  Yeah.
• 29:55
  Yeah.
• 29:56
  That, um, giving her a place unconsciously.
• 30:00
  Yes.
• 30:01
  Yes.
• 30:02
  Yeah.
• 30:02
  Yes.
• 30:03
  We don't know, like we start doing the interview like she was like.
• 30:09
  No, I don't know.
• 30:10
  So I start asking her, well, who was the first one to arrive here?
• 30:15
  Like it was the like thinking that maybe it's also you grow up with bad consciousness.
• 30:22
  No, Heger used to say, so maybe was someone that was escaping or not.
• 30:28
  I was like just having that.
• 30:31
  Doubts in my mind.
• 30:33
  And when I ask, does someone left, like, do you know if your grandfather left someone there?
• 30:39
  No.
• 30:39
  No.
• 30:39
  My grandfather, no.
• 30:41
  But my great grandfa, yes.
• 30:44
  I don't know the details because they don't want to say any, they didn't want to say anything.
• 30:48
  And then with the time, like nobody speak.
• 30:50
  But I knew when I was trying to do my papers that I found a letter that, so that's why, how we realized, and that's.
• 31:00
  You know, sometimes these things, like you said, in your own constellation, there was information that came into the field and, and you didn't know the answers to it until you got home and you could ask your mom, and sometimes people don't have anyone to go and ask.
• 31:16
  Mm yes.
• 31:18
  Yes, that in that cases, I don't know how it work.
• 31:22
  I also tell them that this is what I think it is.
• 31:26
  No, I'm not certain.
• 31:27
  Because yes, if they don't have a way to ask how we are going to tell them, no, this is an abortion that your grandmother God like, and is this and mm-hmm.
• 31:38
  How do you know?
• 31:40
  How do you know for certain, like we come many clues that make us think Yes it is.
• 31:46
  And well, I have seen in, uh, a constellation many years ago that I was in, I was a participant in it and it went back through to like the 17 hundreds to the witch trials.
• 32:00
  And this person was entangled with the energy of, uh, like that sisterhood wound through the witch trials.
• 32:07
  And not being able to, um, move forward in this life.
• 32:10
  Wow.
• 32:10
  Easily.
• 32:11
  That was really powerful.
• 32:13
  Yeah.
• 32:14
  So that was, that was a few hundred gener a few hundred years ago, so.
• 32:18
  Wow.
• 32:19
  Mm. And I, and I've been in some really big systemic ones where there's been a lot of, you know, ancient trauma that's still sitting in the field.
• 32:29
  Yeah.
• 32:29
  In a cantina, at least seeing my teacher work.
• 32:33
  We have a lot of trauma that comes from the dictatorship period.
• 32:40
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:41
  Like these things that are between big teams and perpetrators.
• 32:47
  Yeah.
• 32:47
  And we see a lot because we have a dictatorship that was really cruel.
• 32:53
  And so we can see a lot of things like this.
• 32:57
  Yeah.
• 32:58
  The colonization of it, of.
• 33:00
  Yeah.
• 33:01
  Yes, a hundred percent.
• 33:03
  I work in a, a month ago I work in a constellation like where someone got a problem with, uh, land that they inherit, uh, and they are all the time fights between the different generations because of this land and what you perceive like easily is like, it's not that fight.
• 33:26
  It's not the generations, it's what.
• 33:29
  The first one took from, from the people that used to live there, from the Asian people.
• 33:36
  It wasn't the problem between brothers.
• 33:39
  The problem is like, someone is not recognizing, recognizing that that land wasn't them at the beginning.
• 33:47
  So the the colonization from the, and taking the land from the aboriginals.
• 33:51
  Yeah, exactly.
• 33:52
  Yeah, exactly.
• 33:54
  Yeah.
• 33:54
  We had that here too.
• 33:55
  And you see it in constellations, you see that programs in constellations in New Zealand.
• 34:01
  Have you seen that?
• 34:02
  Yes.
• 34:03
  Yes.
• 34:03
  Yeah.
• 34:04
  It's, and it's different I think here and.
• 34:07
  Same, same, but different.
• 34:09
  Like with the land there, there could be that, um, and sometimes there's, there is that in family disagreements around what's gonna happen to it.
• 34:17
  There is still quite a bit of land that is owned or has been given back, but there's still a lot of healing to do around sort of thing.
• 34:24
  Yeah.
• 34:25
  I know you have, you've mentioned your teacher a few times.
• 34:28
  Do you have any other, um, facilitators that you look up to?
• 34:32
  Yes, I follow Stefan Hoffner.
• 34:35
  Mm-hmm.
• 34:36
  A lot like he come to Argentina so many times he came to Arg Cantina and when I'm not there I follow him online.
• 34:45
  Uh, so it's someone that I'm really interested.
• 34:48
  His work and what he does.
• 34:50
  Oh, I'd love to get him on my podcast.
• 34:51
  Put that one at the edge of the field.
• 34:53
  Let's get Stephan Hal down on my podcast.
• 34:55
  Please just do it.
• 34:57
  Yes, yes, yes.
• 34:58
  Let's do it.
• 34:59
  Why not?
• 35:00
  Mm. It is really interesting.
• 35:02
  Yes.
• 35:02
  For me, it's someone I, I, I really love what he does.
• 35:05
  It's amazing and also humble.
• 35:09
  Yes, very humble and it means looking him work.
• 35:13
  It's amazing, you know, when someone, it's like with so much constellations over his shoulders and all the time when he works he says he does like this.
• 35:22
  I don't know, a face of, we don't know where we are going.
• 35:25
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:26
  That humbleness, it's amazing because like it shows.
• 35:32
  Well, we are really, when we are constellating, we are not in a superior position.
• 35:37
  We know a technique, but we are blind in that moment.
• 35:43
  I remember once he talked about he had had a client come.
• 35:48
  He was in a workshop and there was a client sitting and came to sit in the hot seat and there was some stuff that stirred up in him and maybe heard had happened during the day, I'm not sure.
• 35:58
  And so what he did before he constellated with this person, he put a representative for himself and a representative for the client onto the field to see go, what would be there.
• 36:11
  Because for him, some of his ego stuff was you, like he was aware of that, which was beautiful.
• 36:16
  Um, there was some.
• 36:18
  Uncomfortableness there.
• 36:20
  And, and, and his representative got down and sat on the floor and the client's representative was, was okay at a distance and everything was good.
• 36:28
  Now we know there was a little bit of time and so he went ahead with the constellation 'cause he could see that there was that part of him that could do this consolation, um, without him, uh, unconsciously wanting to be bigger or, yes, because as the facilitator, right, we come into that.
• 36:45
  Clients field and we are the little ones in their field.
• 36:48
  Yes, yes.
• 36:50
  Yeah.
• 36:50
  I really admired that when he shared that I have done that myself with someone.
• 36:54
  It was a really interesting process.
• 36:56
  Mm, yeah.
• 36:57
  Yes, yes.
• 36:58
  For me, it's a really big master and I like, like he shares openly.
• 37:03
  Also, you can ask him the.
• 37:05
  Questions that you want, and he answers everything.
• 37:08
  Like I really learned from him all the times that I go to his seminars.
• 37:13
  I, um, yes, I learned so much.
• 37:17
  Yes, I like, um, who has, and well then Garriga, it's someone like also famous in like from Barcelona.
• 37:28
  And who, who else can you type that name into the chat and I can have a Yes.
• 37:33
  Oops.
• 37:34
  'cause your beautiful accent in the way it's rolled off your tongue.
• 37:37
  I sorry.
• 37:37
  Didn't quite grab it.
• 37:38
  That's okay.
• 37:40
  I just, yeah.
• 37:40
  I love listening to your accent.
• 37:42
  It's beautiful.
• 37:42
  I, I, I hope the audience doesn't run out.
• 37:45
  Oh, be hard out listening.
• 37:47
  Yes.
• 37:50
  One of the famous.
• 37:52
  Constellations in Spain, Joanne Ika.
• 37:56
  Yes.
• 37:57
  That's how we would bastardize it in my language.
• 38:01
  Oh, all these interesting people that I'm hearing about.
• 38:03
  So I love that it's just opening so many doors to meet so many amazing people that are tapping in and bringing their own uniqueness to the work as well.
• 38:15
  Yes.
• 38:16
  I think that was one of the things that really, um, appealed to me, you know, and I was describing it to someone today.
• 38:22
  It's like you're given the base, you're given the basic recipe, and then you can add your fruit to it if you were baking a cake.
• 38:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 38:30
  So you hega provided us with the, the foundations.
• 38:34
  And then if we have other things, um.
• 38:38
  Because those are part of who we are, right?
• 38:41
  And we can infuse them into constellations, or constellations into that.
• 38:47
  And some people choose to stick strictly to polling's.
• 38:51
  Teachings.
• 38:52
  I kind of described it like it was a nourish bowl, but most people would know like a Buddha Bowl, and you add your own flavors to it, right?
• 38:59
  Yes, yes, yes.
• 39:01
  I think that there are many, I don't know.
• 39:03
  There are so many knowledge that goes.
• 39:06
  Really, I don't know, match with family constellations.
• 39:10
  And also sometimes you realize you need them in order to release something or move the energy.
• 39:17
  Mm. I don't know the shamanic world.
• 39:20
  For me, it's also, I, I, I learn from other teachers that mix the shamanism with Family Constellation, my own teacher that got a whole.
• 39:32
  A path in that.
• 39:34
  And I am like, I, I cannot see family constellations without these things because sometimes it's something that you need in order to like, use a drum, you know?
• 39:46
  Yes.
• 39:47
  A simple vein.
• 39:48
  So, so when I learned constellations, I learned the very much, the basic, the um, very.
• 39:54
  He style.
• 39:55
  'cause my teacher was German as well.
• 39:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 39:58
  And um, through my journey, I've got the feeling of, I told me I had to make a drum, so I made a drum and I started using it in my work.
• 40:06
  Mm. And.
• 40:07
  Wow, what a difference.
• 40:08
  Just the energy that it moves.
• 40:10
  And also using it for myself to clear myself.
• 40:13
  Clear the space.
• 40:15
  Yes.
• 40:15
  Um, and then my voice as well.
• 40:18
  So like I kept wanting to make sound in the workshops and I'm like, oh, pushing it down.
• 40:24
  And then I ended up with a really big.
• 40:26
  Thing in my thyroid and I was like, okay, I think my body is telling me I should be letting this out.
• 40:34
  So I started letting it out and Right.
• 40:36
  Yeah.
• 40:37
  'cause it's around being authentic too, in the work.
• 40:39
  Right.
• 40:39
  If you're not allowing yourself to be fully authentic in the field mm-hmm.
• 40:43
  Then, um, it's going to find some bumps and, and scrapes along the way.
• 40:50
  'cause you, you good to just flow with it.
• 40:53
  And, and if it's coming so clear as you said, why we think it's not going to be something for the others.
• 41:01
  Exactly.
• 41:02
  Yeah.
• 41:02
  Like why?
• 41:04
  Yeah.
• 41:04
  Like if it is coming that clear as a message, I need to use the drama, I need to use, why not?
• 41:09
  We never know what is going to happen after that.
• 41:13
  Yeah.
• 41:13
  Uh, for me, the constellation doesn't start with the constellation start before.
• 41:18
  I don't know how it works for you.
• 41:20
  Yeah.
• 41:20
  Something that start happening before these things, like, uh, today I'm going to ring the drum, and then you realize why, you know.
• 41:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 41:28
  Yeah.
• 41:29
  Sometimes it's days ahead, right?
• 41:30
  There are things that are coming in and it's like mm-hmm.
• 41:33
  Yes.
• 41:33
  Or when you are attending to a group session, it didn't happen to you.
• 41:37
  At least for me was like, I knew that I was going to be big to be a representative.
• 41:42
  Yeah.
• 41:43
  Like you are.
• 41:44
  Sure.
• 41:45
  Today I'm going to represent you.
• 41:46
  Dunno why I don't know what it is.
• 41:49
  Like we, but I'm sure it's going to be me.
• 41:52
  Teacher would do it in a certain way.
• 41:54
  Uh, and then I just knew when it was gonna be my turn to get in the hot seat.
• 41:58
  Could feel like, God, God really fast.
• 42:00
  Really fast.
• 42:01
  Do you, because I, you mentioned that you, um, trained in astrology.
• 42:06
  Did I hear you say, uh, yes.
• 42:08
  Yes, yes.
• 42:09
  Have you done, I've seen some people that use astrology and constellations.
• 42:13
  I don't know how it's done.
• 42:14
  I haven't seen it done, but, um, have you ever seen that done?
• 42:18
  I know people that does it, like constellate, the, your another chart.
• 42:24
  It's really interesting.
• 42:25
  It's really interesting.
• 42:26
  As a workshop, I didn't do it.
• 42:28
  Yeah.
• 42:28
  I used some knowledge like astrology, Enneagram, things like this for myself to understand the ego of the other one.
• 42:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 42:37
  But not to work with that.
• 42:39
  What I did, um, a few, not workshop, but some seminars working with the tarot cards, so I did.
• 42:48
  Constellations with, uh, the tar deck.
• 42:52
  Um, and it's really interesting what happened because you have two different informations Yeah.
• 42:59
  That you have what the representative bring and also what the cards are bringing.
• 43:05
  And it is amazing.
• 43:07
  I didn't do it in Australia yet.
• 43:09
  I did it in Argentina, but in Argentina, like I had more people that comes to the group sessions that I do.
• 43:15
  So it.
• 43:16
  They know how it works.
• 43:18
  And you are presenting at the next Australian intensive.
• 43:22
  Yes, we are going there.
• 43:23
  It's amazing.
• 43:25
  We are going there like showing what I told you to share with the people, what we do with the, how we help parents.
• 43:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 43:33
  To work systemically.
• 43:36
  And to work with these techniques, you know, of compassion constellations and how we work with them.
• 43:41
  So yes, we are going to do that.
• 43:44
  I'm really excited And to meet all the network.
• 43:48
  Absolutely.
• 43:48
  Absolutely.
• 43:48
  It's been a great, amazing, great space and I, you know, I'm so grateful for what Janine has is doing there as well, so, and connecting the communities and, yeah.
• 44:01
  That's amazing.
• 44:02
  Yes.
• 44:03
  Stuff.
• 44:04
  Well, I think we're just about at time here.
• 44:06
  Okay.
• 44:07
  Yeah.
• 44:07
  Is there anything else that you feel that you wanna share in here?
• 44:11
  Actually, one thing I do, is there a contact, so we will put the, the details that you've given me into the links, but if you'd like to speak that into the field, if there's a contact, if anyone's listening to this and wants to get in touch or be part of something that you are offering.
• 44:28
  Yes.
• 44:28
  So for whatever we are doing, going to do in, in Australia, that we do online group sessions for parents, for therapist or group sessions, in person, um, or individual sessions.
• 44:46
  I will appreciate if they can contact the family system hub also to know what we are going to do in February of this Compassionate Constellation seminar.
• 44:55
  Mm-hmm.
• 44:56
  For the ones that wants to study that technique with a teacher from abroad.
• 45:00
  So also that is really nice, and if there's someone that needs.
• 45:07
  Someone that speaks Spanish.
• 45:09
  Also, you are far from your home and you want someone that speaks Spanish.
• 45:14
  Also, you can do it in the family system hub because sometimes they need someone that speaks your own language.
• 45:20
  Yes, absolutely.
• 45:21
  It makes, uh, difference.
• 45:23
  So the family system hub?
• 45:25
  Yes.
• 45:26
  And you're based in Melbourne?
• 45:27
  Yes.
• 45:28
  Fantastic.
• 45:29
  Thank you so much Devy for your time.
• 45:32
  It's been really beautiful to connect with you and look forward to meeting you in person.
• 45:37
  Alright.
• 45:38
  Um, yeah.
• 45:40
  Thank you for your generosity, Tracy.
• 45:42
  Thank you very much.
• 45:43
  You're welcome.
• 45:44
  It's lovely to meet you.
• 45:46
  It's been a pleasure and continue doing a lot of podcasts because it's really interesting.
• 45:50
  Thank you.
• 45:51
  Thank you for listening.
• 45:53
  Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 45:58
  You'll find me at Tracy dot Cartwright.
• 46:01
  That's Tracy with no e dot Cartwright and the or head over to my website, Tracy cartwright.co.nz and receive a free audio with the gift from your ancestors.
• 46:14
  So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.