Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Cameras in the Classroom

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Cameras in the Classroom · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: Filming dance class is a relatively new phenomenon and not one that everyone loves.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: Today on Making the Impact, we discuss the pros, cons, and mixed feelings that come with cameras in the classroom, with dance videographer Jake Allen Smith, and IBA judge and dance professional Chloe Roberts.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Mailer.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: What's up, Court?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Not too much.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm pumped for this episode.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: So we have some awesome guests, a really great topic, and one I think that we will be revisiting several more times over the course of the run of this podcast, which is who knows how long we'll go, but it'll be a topic that comes up again, I think.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, this week we are talking about cameras in the classroom.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: We were kind of debating one do we do a videography in dance episode or do we do a cameras in the classroom episode?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that those two, oh, those could be two separate podcasts entirely, which we will definitely tackle videography and dance soon.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's a season six episode.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: But for season five, we wanted to talk all about cameras in the classroom because it is a hot topic, especially in the professional dance world.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that you go on social media, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook these days, and you see nothing but professional class footage from all of the professional studios in Chicago, New York, LA, Atlanta, everywhere.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone has a camera in the classroom.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we want to talk about the pros and cons.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do we love it?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Do we hate it?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: What does the community think?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: How can we do better?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna cover that all today on this week's episode.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: I can't wait, but before we do that, we have some Making the Impact Award winners to share.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we do.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Our IDA affiliated competitions are giving out so many Making the Impact Awards.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: One Making the Impact Award is distributed at every event that has at least one IDA judge on the judging panel.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And this is going to that one dance the judges cannot stop thinking about by the end of the weekend.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the perks of winning the Making the Impact Judges Choice Award at an IDA affiliated competition is you get a shout-out live on our podcast.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, Leslie, please announce our very first winner.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: All right, a shout-out going to Devonshire Dance from Skokie, Illinois, coming from the Uproar Dance Competition in Chicago, Illinois.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: Illinois.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: This solo, I Can't Do It Alone, performed by Selma S.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: won that weekend's Making the Impact Award.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And from the Streets Dance Convention in Phoenix, Arizona, congrats to Dance Deluxe Dance Studio from Gilbert, Arizona for their duo trio, Somebody.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I watched it, it was beautiful.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: Jealous, amazing.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well, congratulations to all of our Making the Impact Award winners.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: If you are a recipient of a Making the Impact Award, make sure you submit your information to us.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: There's a QR code on the back of the award so that you can get your shout out.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And before we jump into our episode, let's hear from our sponsors.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Our season five premiere sponsor, Francisco Gulla Danceworks, offers some exceptional training opportunities for dancers throughout the year.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you're seeking an intensive to attend over Labor Day weekend before you head back to your dance season, then check out Francisco Gela Dance Works Pre-Professional Dancer Institute.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Taking place in beautiful Santa Fe, New Mexico from August 29th through September 2nd, 2024.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: This intensive provides knowledge to dancers to better aid them in the transition after high school graduation.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is especially recommended for dancers considering college or secondary training programs.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Throughout the five-day intensive, dancers will learn all about different programs for post-graduation, how to build a resume, create audition submissions, apply for scholarships, and so much more.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, there will be lots of dancing involved, with classes that are curated towards a typical college dance curriculum, to allow dancers to understand what will be expected of them in a college dance program.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Parents are also welcome to observe select classes and workshops throughout the event to better help their dancers' journey on the best path for their future.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: This intensive is open to advanced dancers ages 13 through 18.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Mark your calendars and join Francisco Gella and faculty at this wonderful summer dance workshop.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Learn more about the program and what is offered by visiting their website at PreproDancerInstitute.com.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you to Francisco Gella Danceworks for being our season five premiere sponsor.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: All right, dance world, we're jumping in to one of the hottest topics in the dance world.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say maybe it is hotter in the professional dance world more than it is in the competitive and the studio dance world for this week's chat.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it definitely is impacting the entire dance community.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that topic is cameras in the classroom.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is a hot one.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: So many cameras are in the classroom these days in the in this era of social media and self-promotion and marketing and all of the things that come along with it.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there are cameras there very often.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that these days you don't go to sometimes you go to class and a camera just shows up unexpectedly and you had no idea it was about to pop into this space.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or dancers might not even come to classes that don't have cameras in the classroom because they love a camera.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: But there are some people out there, and I know for a fact, because I've talked to them, that miss the good old days where there were no cameras in the classroom.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna cover all of that today on this hot topic episode of Making the Impact.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: We have some wonderful guests joining us, and I can't wait to introduce them.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: The first guest that I'm excited to welcome back to Making the Impact podcast.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: She is a fabulous dance educator, professional dancer in New York City.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: She's taken my class, I've judged alongside her.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: She's also an IDA judge, and she's been on a handful of our previous episodes.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Season two, episode 33.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Are you correctly categorizing your dances at competition?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: What a great one.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And all the way back, oh my gosh, season one, episode two, competition cleaning.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And she's joined me on a platinum premium QA with Courtney episode.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to welcome back Chloe Grace Roberts to the podcast.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Chloe.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_04: Hi, thank you so much for having me.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very excited to be back and having these conversations.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_04: I have a lot of thoughts.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like you said, I'm a professional dancer in New York.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_04: I lived in California for a long time, and I have a lot of thoughts about being filmed in class.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I can't wait to dive in.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know that you are always in class in New York City, and you have you get to post so many great videos of you dancing beautifully in the classroom.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I also wanted to bring you in now that you have that New York City experience, like you mentioned, because you lived in California and I feel like that LA has been doing this whole cameras thing for a really long time, way before it came over to New York City.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, pre-pandemic, we're talking.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you got a little taste of that.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now you have a little taste of New York.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So you can bring both coasts into your perspective on this chat today.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to hear it.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Chloe, remind all of our listeners out there more about you, where you grew up, your early dance training, any career credits, and what you're currently working on.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: Definitely.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_04: So I grew up in Houston, Texas, and I was a competitive dancer growing up.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_04: My mom was a dancer, my dad was a stage manager, production stage manager for a lot of national tours.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: So I also grew up kind of on the road with my family, which was a really lovely experience, kind of teaching me about what the dance world could be from the theater aspect.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: And then when I went to college, I danced for some contemporary companies, did a lot of regional theater, lived in California for a long time, danced for some companies there, and now I, like I said, I'm based in New York.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_04: I am the associate director of Saylor Dance Collective, which is a bi-coastal contemporary company, and I'm also the resident choreographer for Nebula Dance Labs, and I am auditioning and trying to book a job at New York City professional dancer grind.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: That's right, that's right.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_04: In addition to that, I also um, like you said, I'm an educator, I'm an adjudicator, I work for the lovely IDA.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I travel most weekends and judge, and I travel and do choreography, and I generally get to spend every day of my life dancing, which I am so grateful for.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome, Chloe.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're so grateful to have had you on the roster for so many years, and we're excited to hear your perspective.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for joining us on this one.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: All right, our next special guest is a brand new guest to our podcast, and it is someone that all of us have a connection with, but uh actually I've never really had a chance to sit down and talk with this person, which is kind of funny because he's the one that's behind the camera.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: He is actually the videographer.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: He's filmed my class at steps, he's filmed Chloe taking class at steps, and Leslie knows him through the NYCDA community.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to welcome Videographer Extraordinaire Jake Allen Smith to the podcast.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Jake.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you guys.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Super excited to uh dive into this topic.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's really exciting that we have the videographer perspective and not just a bunch of dance perspectives.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I know you're immersed in the dance world, but because you're the one that's behind the camera, I think that you're gonna bring um a different perspective to this, which I'm excited to hear.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I'm super excited to see like all of the different aspects, not only just like from my point of view, but even just talking to the dancers.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because we have dan we have dancers, we have teachers, and we also even have some other perspectives that I've I've gained and gathered from our community that we'll share throughout the episode.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jake, same kind of spiel, if you wouldn't mind giving us a little taste into what your early life was like, how you got into dance videography, and what you're currently working on now.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um I grew up in upstate New York, uh, was dancing, kind of how I got my my foot in the door with the whole thing.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, went to college, got my degree, did the whole thing, left college, worked professionally, especially in like regional musical theater, uh, did a lot of developmental work in New York City.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh, but I here's the thing, I should have known that I would have worked more into this world because every contract that I ever went on, I always took my camera and I was always asking people on uh the contracts I was working on to do photo shoots or projects or little things here and there just because I wanted to practice, I wanted to learn, I was more excited about that.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then it got to a point where I was uh I was more excited to take photos of the people that were on the contract than it was to actually do the contract.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to really take a hard look in the in the mirror at that point.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, moved uh after all of that, moved and settled back down in the city and kind of really dove into my professional career.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's like you said, um steps on Broadway, NYCDA, I've subbed for other conventions, competitions, worked with multiple dance companies, commercial work, uh class, the whole the whole nine yards, and now actually moving more into doing commercials.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's been really exciting.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's so exciting for a lot of our listeners to hear your journey because I think that a lot of people think that the end all be all is just I can only be a professional performer.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: I have to be performing on stage to be in this dance world.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you're a perfect example of you dabbled in that and you did it and you loved it and you enjoyed it, but you also found another passion within the dance community to continue on without being on the stage.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And videography is a huge component of the dance world now.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I tell friends and and and anybody I come across, you know, if you want to be in the dance industry, absolutely just be in the dance industry, right?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't have to just be a dancer, you can wear multiple hats.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's the beauty of it.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Great advice.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Love hearing that.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for being here.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're excited to have you all making the impact.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Super excited.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Let's jump in.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: We have so much to cover.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, guys, this will be a long one.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: There's so much happening, and there's so much because it's so new.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this isn't something that has been going on for 40 years and it's like, okay, we've we've beaten that dead horse.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: How much more is there to talk about?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: No, this is new.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: So this is something that we'll probably do more, more and more, you know, episodes on as the years go by and things change.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: But so I'm curious for both of you, since Chloe, you've been dancing for a while in two different places, and Jake, you are the person behind the camera.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: For both of you, when did you start seeing Jake?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: When did you start getting jobs specifically to film a dance class?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: And Chloe, when did you start noticing and where did this start happening in your worlds?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I was reflecting on this, and my earliest memory of ever being filmed in a dance class or rehearsal was in 2010 in Houston, Texas, for a solo rehearsal.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_04: And my teacher, Miss Dawn, she had this little mini digital camera that was like a vertical camera, and it could record, I think, up to like 30 seconds at a time.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_04: And we were record we were recording my solo rehearsal, my senior solo.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so then I have these clips that I I still have to this day of me running my solo.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember thinking, this is amazing.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_04: I can like go home and I can watch this video of my solo and I can clean it and I can think about it that way.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_04: That's my earliest memory of a camera.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, that's very different than being in a professional class and being filmed.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: But then that's something.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember thinking how useful that was because, like I said, I could watch it and I could think about my technique, I could think about what my performance looked like, and that was such a gift.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_04: I was 18 years old, that was 2010.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_04: So then my next earliest memories of being filmed in class are from probably 2014 at Edge in LA.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I was taking classes from people like Malaya, Sabrina Phillips, and those classes were at the end, someone would get out their iPhone and they would say, like, I'm gonna film these groups if that's okay with everyone.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: It was very teacher saying that or just some random person?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_04: This was the teacher saying that.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: And it was usually said like I might post this on my Instagram.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: And we were all like, okay, whatever.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: You're like, What's Instagram?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_04: No, kind of, exactly.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, or like YouTube was kind of starting to get big in.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I remember I used to go home and I used to watch videos on YouTube from people's classes that I wanted to take.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_04: And so we would go out in our groups, they were not special groups, you were not called out.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_04: It was literally just like the class had been divided and it was like your group's turn.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: They were like kind of bad videos in the mirror, they were probably blurry, and they would just film the photography.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_04: And then sometimes you could ask for it, sometimes you didn't.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like it just was almost, it just was a thing.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: That's what it was.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_04: And if you had a video, it might go on Instagram, it might not.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_04: That's my earliest memory of kind of cameras in the classroom.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think um, I'm gonna be honest, I don't think I ever was in a room with a camera in a classroom as a dancer, to be completely honest.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even in college.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think um, I mean, I went to a college that was very uh ballet and modern heavy, and even then, like it was very obscure, so it wasn't even the commercial side of it, so I didn't get to really experience that.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've had cameras as far as like photo, but I don't think anything like video.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I do remember as a kid, uh yeah, watching videos on YouTube of people that I would love to take or in s were inspired by, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, I don't think I ever was in the room as a dancer with photos or with like cameras in the classroom until I actually was on the other side of it.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: In 2000, it was it was while I was still in college because I would take class in the summer in Atlanta at a studio that's that was the very first like drop-in Atlanta dance studio like they have in New York.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's called Dance 101.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time, you know, YouTube had just come out like maybe 2010, 2008, something, and you had a phone or a digital camera that could take a video.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I I have those videos just like you, Chloe.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like this is the earliest, you know, non-VHS option that there was to have some footage of you dancing, but it wasn't a commercial thing.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: It was for yourself.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, and then it ended up on YouTube when YouTube came out, and you would do the same thing.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh man, I could go take Bubba's class or I could go take Casey's class and you'd see what it was like.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: But like that was this is 2024.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: That was 14 years ago.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, like I I was thinking recently about my submission for young arts when I was a senior in high school, 2006, that was.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we had like the old school like camcorder in the studio, and we were filming it onto a VHS, and you could only do so many takes because we'd have to run into the lobby, put it into the camp to the TV to re-watch it and make sure we approved.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And if I mean it's like you here you just these days you just press delete on your iPhone and re-record it, and you can go on and on and on.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: But like back then, I only had like three takes to get it right, or we used up the whole VHS recording, you know, on the camera.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I just distinctly remember that and feeling up, you know, bummed out about that, that I couldn't get the best take.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Where nowadays that's just like how it is, you can do it however many times.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: But also, um, I'm with you, Chloe.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I remember taking classes in New York City, BDC and steps, and occasionally the teacher would just pop their phone up and hold their phone.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, once we had smartphones and cameras on our phones that were higher quality, or sometimes they would have an actual like a better quality camera that they happened to bring.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they would just, you know, it was a very discreet, it didn't interrupt the flow.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was recorded, like you said, into the mirror.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: They would never like stage it.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: They would never, you know, put people in a formation or have a can a videographer like standing at the front of the room.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like a little, a little side thing.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, I documented footage of my class today and I wanted to see who showed up and I want to remember this choreography.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: It almost felt like archival versus like for promotion.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: And which thank God for that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, so grateful that we built that because that was that's what I did as a teacher too in those years.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: Was it like I was teaching so much?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, what is this dance?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: Let's tape it.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, even to this debate.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I use.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: I that's what I use my camera.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to remember the choreography.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, sure, if I get a good take of something and I think it's worthy of posting and I want to post it and share it, that's great.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: But also sometimes I'm just like, I just I don't even need to be a professional videography.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just need to film it so I can remember it and keep that in my phone.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right, I just need to remember this combo.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and also I so I have done the deep dives.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: I have scrolled way back into my archives footage on my Instagram.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_04: This is a post from May 21st, 2014, when I was a like baby new jazz teacher at a studio in Colorado that is sadly no longer there.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember distinctly that I had done a clean triple in this video.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_04: And this was back when you could only post 15 seconds on an Instagram.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_04: And so I did the beginning.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I forgot they did that.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember sitting there being like so upset because I had to pick 15 seconds and I wanted the beginning, but I also wanted the triple.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_04: And so I remember being like, we're going with the triple, y'all.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: This is like a middle of a combo that makes no sense.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'm like, Yeah, but look at my triple.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's funny to think back that like we even if you did have a video, like that was exciting.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_04: But then also where you could post it, the platform limited you to only posting 15 seconds of your work.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_04: So we've come so far.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: We have.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: We really have.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: We have, we definitely have.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so Jake, when when did you start being approached by dance studios to do the work that you do that we know you from now?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, honestly, like if if anybody sees videos from some of these dance studios in New York City, a lot of the time you're the person credited as, you know, so like every people know who you are.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: Listen, you're a little famous.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: When when did that start happening for you?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm curious for that because that's really the focus of this conversation is the commercialization of video in the classroom.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: I would say when the pandemic was just kind of letting out, I guess, letting up.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I when I moved back to New York and I was actively starting to film in the city, I was still wearing a mask.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like if anybody ever saw me from like when I first got there, like I was still wearing a mask.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Just like, you know what I mean?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Large crowds and everything, right?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people were still doing that.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it was around that time.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe 20 like late 2020.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: Early 21.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Something like yeah, early early 21, something like that.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's when it all kind of happened.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like even I I I I look back.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and even I look back and I'm like, you know, there really at that point in time, there was a push, there was a little bit of a push.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think during the pandemic, we really got to see the importance of just like media in general, right?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like we were all in our homes and we were all kind of glued to our phone a little bit, like seeing what the outside world is doing, right?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like that is when the big push started to happen.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, everybody realized the importance of media or putting yourself on camera or or or anything like that to showcase work, to to do whatever.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And once the pandemic started to let up a little bit is when you really started to feel that like inch towards uh filming a lot more in the city.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: But it really wasn't until maybe I would say a year after that, and then it just like exploded.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: You had to turn down.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Work, I'm sure.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: I turned on work all the time.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's too much.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's constantly yeah, it's it's flowing all the time, right?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So and there's so many choreographers, there's so many dancers.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's not even just like you know, choreographers want class films or anything like that, but there's also people are working on passion projects and dancers want to get stuff for their for their reels.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that I think has become such a it's become a really great tool, I think, to allow people to showcase their talents in a in a positive light, right?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And or highlight choreographers and highlight the the beautiful work that they're doing.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Even in just like a promotional aspect.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that is also something I think that came out of the pandemic is the fact of choreographers and dancers prom self-promoting, right?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or like giving the material or being able to show their work in a way that they feel great about and the dancers feel great about, but also allows other people to kind of see.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And in it it's that networking aspect, right?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's that networking, it's that push that you mean that video, someone may have seen it, and all of a sudden you got a job from it.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, or an opportunity to go and teach at another studio.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we loved your choreo from this video, right?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we would love to have you come and teach here.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, yeah, around that time is when I really started to see a push.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think what you what you just brought up about people looking for quality footage for their for their reels, that footage of yourself dancing is hard to come by as a professional dancer.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: It used to be for sure.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it used to be, right.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: But if it outside of what happens now, yeah, you either have to pay for a space, you have to pay for a videographer, you have to do it yourself, or you have to get it from the school college that you were dancing at.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: My college gate kept all of our footage.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: We had you it gave you nothing.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Every professional show gate ke keeps the footage.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've never, I don't have a single bit of footage from any musical I've ever done unless it was B-roll in the promotional video, and that was it.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: Or boot or bootlegged that somebody was like, I'm gonna film this in the audience for you.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: I have a couple of those.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I found it on YouTube, like sketchy bootleg.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's huge.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_04: I have all of these credits in my resume of that, and I'm like, you look at my resume and it's like musical theater, da-da-da-da-da-da-da, like all these things, and I'm like, and I have zero footage to show zero footage.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Here's a bunch of words to tell you that I can dance.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's very bizarre.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it's super bizarre.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's slowly changing.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mentioned this at some point, but this past summer, when I was working at the Muni, that was the first regional theater and musical show that I was that I ever did in my entire career in the past 15 years that allowed us to film the rehearsal, like with our personal phones for us to be able to go home and re-watch and prepare to come back the next day feeling good.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I was the swing.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I asked if I could because I needed that footage.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: But like never in my entire professional career would cameras have ever been allowed in rehearsal because your job is to remember, retain, and come back knowing your choreography without watching a video.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: That is your job as a professional.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And now there's so many cameras everywhere that I'm a little bit nervous that that younger generations of dancers aren't going to really understand how to properly retain things without watching a video because they're so used to having that available and accessible.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's gonna happen when you get on the job and the choreographer says, no, you can't film this, what we've done today in rehearsal.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Where did you pay close enough attention?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you just gonna watch all the other dancers in that video that are doing it better than you and learn off of them and study it before next?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's it's a really tough, it's a fine line because there's benefit in having that for us, but also you we can't just rely on that video footage either.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think um some sh I think some shows and choreographers and things are getting a little bit more relaxed based on the copyright of the actual choreography that you're performing, where they might allow you to have access to that footage if you are performing in a professional show these days.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas like a lot of the shows I've done have been like, you know, under the Jerome Robbins estate and Fosse estate.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like they don't want you're you're not getting that footage, you know?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it just depends.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Something I wanted to ask now that we're talking about time frames, is uh and Chloe, tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel, and you were in it, I feel like I was watching classes being filmed to the to the level that they are now where they're like, you know, actual videographers with steady cams in the room with lighting, with like doing artistic things with the camera.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: That was happening in Los Angeles first.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like they started.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: When do you feel like that that started in LA?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_04: I think that uh I could be mistaken, but if I I feel like if I'm thinking about my personal experience with it, it was like 2014, 2015, 2016, especially at Millennium.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_04: I have a very vivid memory of um watching Jojo Gomez videos that were like that original, like zoom in and zoom out, that steady cam, that kind of like gimbal footage.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_04: I really remember seeing those and having like my mind blown.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_04: There was like lighting and there's the red wall behind them, and it was such like a vibe and it was so important.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: And it was like everyone knew that when you saw that red wall that they were dancing at Millennium.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I think it was then.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_04: I think I also I personally got to have a kind of an early-on experience with cameras um because my partner at the time was a videographer and I had worked with that person at studios doing work similar to what Jake does, um, filming at like competition filming at studios, filming professional classes, filming my classes.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_04: So I feel like I kind of got to be on the I got to see both sides of it early on because of that relationship.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: But I do think that those videos from Millennium in particular, like really, really blew up in the commercial scene in LA.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_04: Lots of incredible, incredible hip hop dance was coming out and being put online.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that created a culture of like, I need to get filmed.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I need to get filmed, and I need to get filmed at that studio in order to be taken seriously.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_04: That's true.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I guess it's the red wall.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: It that was I remember that and being iconic.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: Where is it?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And every studio wants to feel that because it gets people, it's it's just automatic promotion for the studio.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like everyone's gonna recognize that wall and say, I want to be there.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: People from around the world are gonna see that footage.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it's interesting too, especially like observing that from the New York City pers um dancer perspective, because like I remember seeing, you know, as Instagram was getting bigger and the and classes were being filmed in LA, like 2017, 2018, pre-pandemic, and I'm seeing all my LA friends just like posting videos and and the teachers are posting all these videos, and I would always be like, oh, that's so LA.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: That is so LA.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, it's all a commercial and TV and film out there, and it's you know, they would never do that in New York City.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm so grateful that they won't do that in New York City, and then Oh, that's so funny.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then boom, you know, post-pandemic, there's a camera everywhere.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh my gosh, if you don't have a camera.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it is, it is really interesting how I I I think New York tried to hold back back from doing it for a very long time.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think that like, you know, we a lot of a lot of people think the New York City scene is a little bit more like classic and old school and technique and all the things, and LA's very like LA's used to cameras.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like those are the jobs you're getting in LA.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, of course, they're gonna practice with cameras in the class.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas like New Yorkers, we're like, we're we're stage performers.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: We don't need cameras.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Why would we need a camera?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a very different mindset, and you choose those coasts for a reason.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: And now I think that the pushback a lot that's happening is a like when I polled everyone on my Instagram, I didn't get a single response.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: I got actually one response from an LA dancer.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone else were New Yorkers.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Granted, maybe that's who follows me, but I think the New Yorkers are the ones that have more of the problem with cameras in the classroom than the LA people do because the LA people are like, that's what I'm trying to do anyway.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to be on camera.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's an interesting way to look at it.
• 30:27
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• 30:29
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• 30:35
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• 30:38
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• 30:44
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• 30:50
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• 30:57
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• 31:00
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• 31:10
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• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you have some you have some percentages, right, Courtney?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: I can't find it in the thing.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: It was something it was like 70% of people had mixed feelings, and that's fair.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: And that's yeah, I think that's real because there's there really are pros and cons.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know that anybody nobody has like really come out full pro or full con because there are benefits right as well as detractions.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: Is that a word?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So let's go there.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about some of the pros and cons that we've let's start with the pros.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about some of the pros that we personally feel when it comes to having a camera in the classroom.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Anything coming to mind?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the number one thing is that in order to be a working dancer in New York City, in LA, in Atlanta, in Chicago, you have to have a reel.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_04: That's just the like bare, that's the the bottom line.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_04: You have to have a reel if you want to get an agent.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_04: If you want to submit for anything, you have to have a reel.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: And that reel, then there's a whole we could spend a whole episode talking about how to make a reel.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_04: Because I've even done an episode.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: Because then within that, there's an entire hierarchy of like what kind of footage you need in your reel.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_04: And you need like clear, bright shots of you, just you.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_04: Not you on stage, pulled out from your college performance, even though that might be beautiful choreography.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: They the casting team, they want to see you.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_04: And so you have to have good quality footage.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_04: And so, unfortunately, in order to do that, like Leslie said earlier, you either have to rent out a studio, rent a videographer, or rent equipment, and then like have your friend try to do it, which I would not recommend.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_04: Get lights, find choreography perform if you don't choreograph on yourself.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like there's so many pieces involved to that.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: Or did in that like weird in-between time of nothing and now, there was, well, I have to have something.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, if you look at probably many of our peers' reels from five years ago, that's exactly what it is.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: It is peaked together mine too.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, it's just compared to what exists now, it's like, wow, that's outdated.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: That looks terrible.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: I could never, I would never anymore.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why it's so important.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a first impression.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: And you can't, it's it's really, it's not sad, but it's just like how far we've come so quickly.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what also makes it a little scary for people too.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: That like I was doing just fine without all this professional footage.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden now I need it.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I can see that perspective as somebody who's outside of this now.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: That that would turn me off immediately.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: Cause that was fine.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, and now I have to have all this stuff from yeah, from being in the industry for so long.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, we have to adapt and evolve as the industry shifts.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's no different than having a black and white headshot.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: And now we don't do that.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: We do color headshot.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like, you know, just learning those things as as we go.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: But it is overwhelming.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: I would say like the the dancers who are 30 years old and over are having a little bit of a problem with with this camera in the classroom situation.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas like the the dancers who are 18 and fresh out of college are like all for it.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sign me up because that's that they feel like they're a little bit more used to it.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're used to it.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:48
  unknown: Yeah.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's the main pro, is that like, say you're paying to go take class in New York.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_04: The filmed classes, if you go to the two hour long ones, they're depending on what your union status is, anywhere between like$24 and$27, I think.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_04: And you are supposed to be guaranteed footage for those classes.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_04: Just keep that in mind.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_04: You're supposed to be guaranteed footage.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Supposed to be is the keyword.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_04: Correct.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_04: So if you look at it that way, if you look at it from a just a strictly economic standpoint, it is obviously cheaper to spend about$25-ish dollars to go in and take a two-hour class and get footage than it is to hire Jake Allen Smith on your own, pay for a studio, pay for whatever choreography you want to have filmed on yourself, and go do that to get footage for your role.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_04: So if you look at it that way, it's a really great thing.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_04: You can pick, there's a ton of classes every week at all these different New York studios that are being filmed.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_04: Hop in, hope that you get good footage, bing bang, boom, hope that you get selected to be filmed.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Jake, I want to know from you, like from your perspective, how often do people, do you visually sort of see people get annoyed, get pissed, walk out, decide this isn't for me?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, you're kind of on the outside looking in a little bit.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are do you notice that people, you know, are are feeling that way and reacting?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I mean, there's been a couple times for sure that like I have noticed like a discomfort in the room.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I have to just keep reminding myself that, you know, it is my job and I'm there on the request of the the choreographer or the studio or anything like that.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because if um from my perspective and the way that um I get brought into it, it's strictly from a marketing standpoint, right?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is I get brought in to capture the material to promote for future classes or for future promotions of of any kind or or anything like that.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's strictly what it is.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: And unless the choreographer hires me out personally, that's what it kind of comes down to, especially in a studio stand like in a standard.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I have I have seen a discomfort.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes there's a shift.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: And when I did start noticing that in the beginning when I first started filming classes, I kind of took it into my own hands a little bit.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I mean, if you ask anybody, I mean Courtney, I did it with you as well.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I walk in, I always, and that's not it's not every videographer, but I walk in at the top of class and I meet you at the top of class and we just talk like expectations and like what can you expect out of it, and what can I expect out of it, and like where's the level of comfortability, and where can we get creative and where can we, you know, meet in the middle so that way everybody walks away with an incredible experience?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's that's really important.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, that it's yes, cameras are really it it there is a shift, and it's sometimes it is uncomfortable having a camera in the room, but you know, where can we make it comfortable?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is it like me hooting and hollering at the dancers being like you know and I do that, I do that sometimes you have to do that, right?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like and it's encouragement because like at the end of the day, like when everybody feels comfortable, then we get the best results.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it again, it's promotion.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: We get best it it it highlights everybody in the best light.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, there has been a there has been a little bit uh that I've noticed.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: But like I said, I I try to do what I can to release that uncomfortable feeling as best as I can.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that I think, first of all, I love that you do that, Jake.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you came.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was surprised when you came to talk to me before class started, because that's never happened with any other videographers that have been.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, I'm like, wow.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's I do it with every single, every single person.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: It just shows your professional.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: You ask any of the choreographers, yeah.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: It shows like we're on the same page, we're creating art together.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not one-sided, it's not just showing up and doing your job and leaving, like you care, and it's and it shows, and then that's gonna show in the quality of the work that you're producing, and that's and that says a lot.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I was a dancer, I was a professional.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, and these are the things, like you know, I I do come from that aspect in that world, so I I do see both sides, right?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: It just it comes down, you know, it's my job.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: I get hired to do this and and I walk in.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I think too that that's part of the reason why Jake's footage is so good, because I have been filmed by people who are not dancers or don't have a background in dance, and the footage is fine, but there is something different about being filmed by someone who is also a dancer and understands like the flow of movement, understands accents, understands when I want you to see my feet, when I don't necessarily need you to see my feet, when it's okay that it's like just upper body angles.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like sometimes I get footage back and I'm like, that is the worst possible angle of an A carte devlope.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like, why are you filming that?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_04: Why are you over there?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_06: And it's no exactly.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: So we as dancers really can feel the difference and appreciate when someone like Jake films us because it's the vibe is different and the footage is different.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and I mean here's the thing when you have a dancer who is a videographer, I can tell you right in I can tell you from my own experience and talking to other people, the first thing we do is we walk in and we start learning the choreo.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're learning it as teaching.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: And exactly.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so we start playing, depending on you mean on the classes, they're all completely different.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: But if I'm sitting there and I'm doing B-roll and I'm just getting some close-up shots for like a class edit or whatever it is, or or anything, I'm still I'm looking at the choreo and I'm I'm remembering where certain accents hit so that way I can prep for when we do it in groups or wherever or however you know what I mean?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's though it's a little bit of a different, I feel like, uh perspective.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing for anybody who isn't.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there are so many amazing videographers who are not dancers, and oh my god, their resumes are a million miles long, and it's their work is incredible.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I also think it's a skill that you can maybe learn like as you continue to grow, right?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, there is something I feel like a little different about a dancer and with a video camera.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that one of the most most frustrating aspects of that I hear from dancers a lot, and it's something that I try to prevent in my class when I am having a class filmed, is you thinking you're signing up to get footage, and either the footage never gets distributed to you, or even prior to that, let's go back to the actual class, you didn't get called out to get filmed.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: It might just because if you see on a lot of these videos, it's usually there's solos that are happening.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Which I'm also like, why, who, what, when, how, who has time to film a solo during a class of 30 other people?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's appropriate, honestly.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Personally, as a as an educator, I don't think that we should be doing solos and rounds and rounds and rounds of solos just for promotion.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: However, trios, sure, because I think they fit um, they're a little bit more they fit the the frame of the video.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you're posting on reels and things, they look great.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like then there's also time, I think there should be smaller groups that happen that aren't trios, because trios might still intimidate people and you feel a little bit more comfortable in like a group of seven dancers, and we can still achieve what we're trying to achieve by getting footage without it being singled out in like a one-on-one thing.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: And but then there's the dancers that never get called out.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like literally, the teachers are just hand selecting who they know and who caught their eye in a pool of 40 people and those dancers a paid opportunity, it's not even an audition.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's not an audition.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: Just as much money as you.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, everyone paid the same, like we're all here for the same experience.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: And my goal, and I have smaller class sizes, but like I don't want anyone left out.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to be filmed, you get to get filmed.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Even if that means that we don't get to do trios, sorry about it.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: We need to do six people in a in a group to make sure everyone gets their chance to be filmed.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then I have to take time out of my life after class is over to distribute the footage to the dancers because I care about my students.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many teachers that don't care about getting you the footage that you paid for.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: You you gave me your talent as a dancer.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: You gave me your talent.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: I watched your talent.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: You should be proud of that.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: You should, at the minimum, get to watch yourself on video.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you choose to use it in your rail or not, you should be able to see that footage that was taken of you.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: And there are so many dancers that come to class and say, I I came to this class to get filmed and I got filmed, but never saw the video.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's who knows where it's at?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: How do I get it?
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: Who gives it to me?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Should I have to harass the teacher for it?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: No, you shouldn't have to.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: You as a teacher don't at these kind of studios, you're not getting the contact information.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: These are this is body number one walking in, body number two walking out.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: You you that also puts the onus on the student to have to come up to you, the teacher in New York City, they've never met before.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe they came from Arkansas for one class.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, my name is Sarah Sue.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: This is my email address.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like what?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's so weird.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, honestly, it's so awkward.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: The amount of the amount of messages that I get on Instagram.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Granted, I care about you all, but like I also don't I have like life after teaching a class, and I don't have time to sit and send emails out to everyone.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of teachers, like, I don't know if a lot of people People have seen this, but a lot of teachers will just like get the the link from the video editor once the videos are finished with all of the clips and then just post it on their story.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I have a problem with that because now like now anyone can watch that.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think that's fair because now what if you like messed up and you don't want that chair?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like now any, you know, so well, and it's kind of awkward too, because so what I do for my pop-up classes that I teach, I I have a whole thing about filming that is um if you want to get filmed, I will rent this room for as long as it takes for you to get the footage that you want of it.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_04: And like last week my class at Ripley was only supposed to be two hours, and then we ended up staying for three and a half because there were first the class was sold out, which was amazing.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: So if you're listening, you came to my class.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_04: We had a great time.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_04: But I wanted to make sure that everyone got footage.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, if I need to pay to extend this room rental so that everyone feels seen and heard and like gets their opportunity, then like I will do that.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_04: But I also understand that that's like a unique thing and that that is an economic burden that I'm willing to take on, and not everyone can do that.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_04: But then the flip side of that related to how then you're distributing the footage is that then it's hours of admin work on my end to answer every single DM of person of the people from that class who then want their footage, which I do not mind doing.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_04: But like you said, Courtney, like it's just a lot of work, and so I have to, you know, draft like a little statement that says, like, thank you so much for coming to my class.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_04: Here's the link, here's who you need to tag, blah, blah, blah.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_04: My next class will be then.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: So it's just a lot of like admin follow-ups because I'm not comfortable posting the link on my stories because then anyone can watch it.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_04: And like they didn't pay to come to my class.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_04: And also, like, I don't I don't know who these people are.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_04: So I don't know.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_04: There's just there's no right answer, you know.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a tough one.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I think no matter what, like people deserve to get the footage that they came for and deserve to get filmed.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, absolutely.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's like the end of the day, like at the end of the day, everyone deserves, like, we all paid the same.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Just because you have a relationship with this teacher doesn't mean that you get special privilege in class.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, come on, it's class.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's not an audition.
• 46:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yes, and this is this is a point that you you have just segued us nicely into, Courtney.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I want to read a quote from one of the people that you got responses from on your Instagram survey about this exact topic.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: So this is from Ellen, who is a teacher at a dance studio here in New York, a professional dance studio.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm gonna read this verbatim because I love it so much.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: Ellen says, Ugh, hot butt hot button issue.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think that we have lost class.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_03: Period, the end.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's very rare to have a comprehensive class which builds technique and musicality.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: People are given class versus versus teaching class.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: Thus, it becomes about the choreography, not the space to learn skills.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_06: Mm-hmm.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's true.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_03: Converse.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_04: I mean It's true.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_04: So, I mean, this is a hard point for me because I think I'm I am a little divided because I am a teacher and choreographer.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, I need footage for my classes.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_04: I love teaching.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_04: And then as a dancer, I'm also one of the dancers that I love being filmed.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_04: I will stand directly in front of Jake and I will stare into that camera lens and I will have the best time of my life.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_04: But I have a lot of friends.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but I have a lot of friends that don't feel that way.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_04: But what I do think is like the best thing about some of these professional classes in New York is that there are certain teachers who have no camera zones.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_04: So for example, Shannon Lewis's class on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 1.15 p.m., she has what she calls the no camera zone.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_04: And she has a nice little speech that she makes at the beginning that is about having class to train and learn and make mistakes and figure out who you are as a dancer.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: Adrienne Lee, Mondays and Wednesdays, 3 p.m.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_04: Those classes are also not filmed.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that if we can just like find the balance of finding classes that are not filmed, and I can train and I can do all sorts of weird things and you know try out new stuff, like that is important.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_04: And that is what Ellen is saying is like those people are teaching, and it is nice to just be able to go and take class, even though I do love to go and take class and be filmed.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_04: I gotta have both.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Any thoughts, Jake?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the thing.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is there's a time.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's my job, right?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I still believe that there's a time and a place for it.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh I believe there is there should be a time where maybe there isn't cameras in the classroom.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Unless it is specifically for a dance on camera class.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's just you know that's the dancer in me, right?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I I also see the other side of it where it's the benefit of and we've already talked about it, it's the promotion.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's more material to to get your name out there and help grow and everybody else and so yeah, I mean I do believe there should be a space.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I I love the what these teachers do, you know, it's the no camera zones and everything like that.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's nothing against me.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's it's not it's not the place for it.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: Now there's just gotta be transparency.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think what happened when all of all of the early sort of debacles about cameras in the classroom started going down, it was because nobody there were no expectations set for anyone.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: People showed up and all of a sudden class time is being taken up and they didn't know.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: Now I think that's gotten a little better.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think the issues do still seem to arise, like you said, Courtney, where n some somebody's getting left out.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, or somebody didn't somehow know.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: Something that that I want to just mention um when it comes to what when we're talking about cameras in particular, but like I personally feel like there's something very different to just popping up your phone and discreetly filming class on the side or like taking an iPhone video at the end of class, still getting the footage.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: It might not be high-def edited steady cam, whatever, with lighting and stuff, but like as an educator, I think that's equally as valuable.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can still get that point across without having professional footage.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I know as a class taker, if someone's standing on the side just filming, it doesn't mess up my approach to class.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm still focused on me.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still like in the mirror, I'm still taking class.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not performing for a camera.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: The moment a camera comes in front of me with a steady cam, it feels like a whole new heightened experience.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I need to be on my A game.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is professional quality right now.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very different than just like, oh, you know, I'm just casually filming with my iPhone.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: A person behind an iPhone is a completely different feeling than a person behind a huge camera.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you, as a dancer taking those classes, it feels I get I start getting butterflies, I start over overanalyzing everything, I start forgetting the choreography.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: Am I actually performing?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's different.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's like going from rehearsal to stage.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what it kind of feels like to me.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't, I I don't know.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: It does feel different to me too.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it's interesting, Courtney.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: I actually really hate when people do that in class.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: When they're just filming on the side.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_04: I really yeah.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_04: And part of me is because I think part of the reason why I don't like that is because I came to that class to not be like I didn't come to that class because it's not being filmed.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_04: But I came to that class with the expectation of like, no, I am just taking class today.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_04: So then when I'm going in a group and this person is filming from the side, like they have a video of me that's been going probably on the internet, and they didn't ask me if they could post that of me on the internet, and like maybe I don't like how I look in that video.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_04: So it's kind of it's like a question of consent then for me of like this person, Caitlin comes in and takes class, and I've never met Caitlin, I don't know what her Instagram is, and now Caitlin has footage of me on their phone that like I don't I don't know if I am okay with that.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_04: Whereas I know that when I'm coming into a class that I'm being told it's filmed, I am consenting to be filmed.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_04: I'm consenting to that videographer maybe posting a video of me, the choreographer maybe posting a video of me, or if I'm in groups, those people, if they post it and I'm in their group, I'll be on that social media.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's true.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_04: So, but I but I do agree that there is value of sometimes just being like, Can I send my phone up and like film this combo just even for your own sake?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I don't know.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_04: I I I used to not feel that way.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_04: That's what's kind of interesting about it too, is I used to not be bothered when people would do that.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_04: But I think now that we have specific classes that are filmed, I'm like, that's the time that I want to be filmed.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_04: This is when I just want to be able to take class, if that makes sense.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel you.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: I and I don't know what's I don't know what's right.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I feel like that sometimes I there, you know how sometimes there's like cameras in the back of the room that just like, you know, like in the corner filming things or like up in the front, like filming things just like not in your face cameras, like discrete cameras that you can like then get footage of you taking the class.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if you liked how you did, then you have that and you can choose to share it.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I don't know they're there, then like I have a different approach on how I'm executing everything.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't feel as intimidating and in your face.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas like the camera right in my face, I'm just like, like, I I have to admit, I mean, you'll see on my Instagram, there's plenty of of videos of me performing with those study cams, like in in classroom settings, at conventions, it at the broad at the studios in New York City.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I absolutely freak out when I'm taking someone else's class and I need to do that.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you notice, all of it is my own choreography and I feel very comfortable in that moment, but not if I'm taking someone else's class.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: I literally had a panic attack recently taking a like a Latin ballroom class, and they wanted me to come out and do it by myself at convention.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I can't, I literally can't like feel like I can do this.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's because I don't have it as much experience behind the camera, because this is a new thing.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, even as a professional for 15 years, this is not something that I've been training for 15 years.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is something that's brand new for me to a new skill set I'm trying to learn and overcome and feel confident looking into the lens of that camera and also be on enough to feel good about producing perfection right away.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that's the other issue is a lot of people feel like they have to be perfect right away when a camera comes out.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: That you're not allowed to mess up and I think that's a natural, that's a very natural response though, because I do remember the last class I did take.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually supposed to be filming it.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the choreographer was like, Oh, Jake, I want you in the video.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's let's play around with you in the video.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I asked somebody from the hallway to just come into the front and just hold my camera.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not even joking when I say I felt that.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel it too.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, you know, it's a very natural response.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Very natural response.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so to that end, how how can we best prepare our younger dancers?
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because listen, this is a thing that happens very frequently in a professional setting now.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how much it's happening in a dance studio setting, but I think eventually it will get there.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're a student who goes to a dance convention, if you go to NYCDA, you're gonna see Jake.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_03: Say hello to him.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: He's awesome.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_03: He's gonna be around, he's gonna be running around with his camera.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: But he's he's gonna be there filming you.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: How do we prepare our kids to not feel like you do, Courtney, and feel like a little frozen when a camera comes out?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_03: Because if this is the new norm, we need to be preparing them for that.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, Jake, do you have any um any thoughts on that being the person who's doing it?
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, honestly, I will say in the convention world, because that's primarily what I end up focusing in, is on the convention side, the classes on the weekends and stuff like that.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: Those those students, I feel like have a very different approach to it than like even the classes that I would do in New York City.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of them are more willing, if not ready, to just like run to the front to try and be on camera.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's their way of being like, oh, if I'm in the front and you know, I mean, there's a possibility that this company might post a video of me dancing.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I feel like, you know, and starting at such a young age.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the minis, the minis are like the funniest thing in the world.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: They're looking at me, they're trying to get my attention to be like, wait, film me, film me, because I want to be on camera.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they're like, they want it.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: They want it.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, the being so young and having that mentality and wanting to do that.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I swear, I've never come across a mini who's ever been like like frozen in front of the camera.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: They give a show.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: They give a show.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I love it, and I love it.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: The minis are the best.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love the minis.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think they're just gonna evolve into it, and I have a feeling that it's just gonna become so natural.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's it's like a skill.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you work on anything long enough, it starts to feel normal and it starts to feel comfortable.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, with them starting so young and having cameras as much as we do in the rooms, especially at conventions, I think they're gonna evolve into dancers who are extremely comfortable in front of a camera and have no like Yeah, it just is what it is.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's just what they're used to.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and just in life, too.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, how like the children have the phones, which means they have the TikTok and the Instagram and the whatever else they have.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_03: Filming everything.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so they are used to it just being there as a as an extension of your hand.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, right.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: I think as a teacher, the way that I have like tried to speak to students about it, and uh actually, like my colleagues the other day, I was telling some professional dance friends of mine in New York, I was telling them that I was about to do this podcast and I was asking their opinions on it.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_04: And um, one of my friends, she was like, I am terrified to dance in front of the camera.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_04: And she's like, But it's so interesting because she is an actress, she does a lot of film and TV, and she's like, I could do a scene in front of a camera, no problem.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_04: But for some reason, when I'm dancing and the camera comes out, I can't do it anymore.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, That's really interesting because I when I go out to dance in front of a camera, I'm like, that's my scene partner.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_04: I need to make as much eye contact with that camera lens as I possibly can, and it almost becomes this like little challenge for me.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think that would be like the actual like physical technical advice that I would give to dancers who are wanting to be better at dancing in front of a camera is like you have to make the camera your friend and it has to be your scene partner.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_04: But then the other piece of advice that I would give to young dancers who are maybe coming to New York and they're gonna be in professional classes where there are cameras.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_04: The number one thing that I would say is that if you go stand in the front for your group and you get filmed, if your group gets to go again, you don't get to go stand in the front the second time.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for that.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like we said, we all have paid to be there, and everyone needs to dance in the front.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_04: And that also applies to classes where they're not being filmed.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_04: We need to move around the room.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_04: You need to stand in different places.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_04: Everyone deserves to dance front and center and see themselves in the mirror at least once during class.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think that's something that I encounter a lot is not just children, but definitely people who are coming, who are younger, come take class.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_04: They don't know how the professional world in New York is a different ball game when you take class.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_04: There are rules, there's etiquette, and it kind of needs to be followed.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_04: But that up definitely applies to being filmed is you do not want to be the dancer that goes and fights their way to the front every single time.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and also there's dancers who don't want to be filmed, and I want to be in the corner doing my dance and leave me alone.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, like anybody out there, don't pressure that dancer to come to be in the front.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_03: She has made her choice.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was just gonna say, you know, it's funny that you say the whole thing about uh the scene partner and stuff like that, because I have friends all the time.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I I know a lot of dancers in the community, and even knowing me, being in the room, some of them will come up to me at the end or even the beginning and be like, oh my god, Jake, I'm so nervous that you're here.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's like I said, it's very, very natural.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I kind of I just kind of like giggle a little bit and I'm like, dude, let's go ahead, let's have fun.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's it.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's just have some fun.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I honestly view it the same exact way.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I loved acting classes when I was in college.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: I loved doing scene work when I was performing professionally.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: I loved all of that stuff.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: So from my perspective and my thought, I'm also thinking from it as a scene.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm you're we're just two scene partners having a conversation, and you know, I just happen to be portraying what I'm doing through my lens, and you know, that's kind of where you get like the really awesome, authentic feeling.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because we've all been in a scene or or in some type of choreography, whether it's a duo or anything like that, and you walk off and you're like, Whoa, right?
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are so many, like there is also like when you when you're both in that moment and you treat it like it's almost like a partner, like you're partnering with the camera, right?
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like absolutely.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've even had it, I've even had it where I'm literally I walk away and I'll go, Whoa! Like it's an experience, it's such an experience, and it's it's beautiful.
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• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to read another response from an NYC professional dancer, and then this will segue into my next question, and um you'll hear.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: So this Kathy says, I have so many thoughts and feelings.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: If it's something like a purposely filmed class, I say have at it.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: It brings a new dimension and challenge to the room that everyone is on board for.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's good practice for camera work and it provides useful content to both the choreographer and the dancers.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I've signed up for a regular dance class, or I don't want to see cameras ten feet from that class.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think dance class is a sacred space.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when we invite cameras in, it changes the environment and dancers and teachers' behavior.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: And suddenly our purpose switches from training to performance, and in the worst cases, prove your worth.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: Then she says, As a teacher, I realize the value in having videos of my classes, which is why I will sometimes do it, but I do it so rarely, and I will always preface it with a conversation around consent to being filmed.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: And with kids especially, I try to be aware of the p potential repercussions to their training mindset.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to lead this into the teachers and the choreographers.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: How can they do a better job of making their students feel comfortable with cameras in the classroom or also just how they're uh how they're approaching class.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that we've all heard the horror stories of warm-up being non existent or sacrificed because cameras are coming later.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: So warm-up is being shortened and then they're trying and then choreographers are just spitting out choreography so fast and furious because they have to get to the end of the combo because the cameras are coming.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's 30 minutes of sacred class time that is being utilized for filming instead of training.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is the issue with a lot of of honestly, that to me comes down to how the choreographer and teacher is structuring their class.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's I think some of some choreographers out there could do a little bit better.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else to add to that?
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I I struggle with this weekly.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I people that take my class, they often talk about how much they love the Miss Chloe warm-up because it's 45 minutes long.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_04: Because like I need to be warm, I need to do plies, I need to do tondus, I need to do abs, I need to do glutes, I need to do everything so that I can be warm and move my body.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_04: And so then sometimes I'm like, well, maybe tonight I need to cut the warmup shorter because there's cameras coming.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like I have dealt with that exact issue because then also I'm like, well, my combo is a minute and a half long.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_04: And so sometimes it's just like really hard to do.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, I can sympathize from on on all ends of the spectrum of that.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_04: I think that I think that we have to figure out maybe that maybe and I like this is my advice to myself, like maybe I don't need to teach a minute and a half long combo, you know?
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I so I think it is just like a learning curve.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I think I learned something new every time I teach of like, okay, I don't want to sacrifice not doing across the floor.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's just learning like how to structure your class efficiently.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_04: And like if you really are focused on filming for 45 to 30 minutes and you need to change your warmups, I would say maybe don't just like cut parts of the warmup out just willy-nilly.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe focus the warm-up more towards what's gonna be in the choreography.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like if that if that is your answer to shortening your warmups, do it in a way that's gonna best prepare that dancer for the movement that they're gonna be doing for that particular combo.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: Do you support the 30 to 40 minutes of filming during class time, though, if it's an hour and a half class?
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_04: So, all right, I was thinking about a two-hour class.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_04: So that's a hard one as well, because then you stand there and you get cold.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_04: And then you stand there and you watch other people dance, and all you can think about is like, when do I get to do this combo?
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_04: When do I get to go?
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_04: When is it gonna be my so there's some ego involved in it, right?
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, there's also like the fact that your body's getting cold.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_04: The other side of that, too.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and of course there's ego because you paid for that class.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: I paid me.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: I paid for that class.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_03: This is now my hour and a half.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you, yes, choreographer, are taking it up with all these other people.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't come to class for y'all.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't come to class for the 15 other people in there.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let's be real.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: So people that are getting filmed probably got guested in, didn't even pay for class.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_04: No, true, true.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_04: So, what I try to tell myself and what I try to tell people who are in my class, if we are doing a lot of groups and we're filming, is That you can learn.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_04: You can, I this is research time now.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_04: This is obviously not ideal.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_04: I want everyone to be like dancing their face off.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_04: But again, if we are in class that's being filmed, there's gonna be time where you have to stand there and watch other people to get be filmed.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so if you can change your frame of reference to now, I'm waiting, I'm waiting, I'm waiting for me.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_04: And again, this is like me having to take my own advice, to let me watch these other dancers and take this as time to learn.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_04: How are they changing their textures?
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_04: What is their performance dynamic?
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_04: What technical elements do they have that I like?
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know, if you can look at it that way, then I think you can get you can absorb the most that you can from class.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_04: But this is coming from a place where I do not think that we should be in an hour and a half or even in a two-hour class that's being filmed.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_04: I do not think that teachers should be making selects.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_04: I do not think that should happen.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_04: I it feels terrible to be a dancer in class that you have paid for, especially when you're in a class where you know the teacher like very well, and then they don't call you out to come film.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_04: I have never felt worse about myself than when that happens.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_03: Or if you just don't know her very well and you think she likes you or like you like her a lot.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's so much emotional turmoil that goes on because you know, maybe I don't have a personal relationship with you, but I come to your class and I I feel good when I'm here.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then all of a sudden you don't pick me.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_03: And now that's over.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm not good enough in your choreography.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: And now like you think a certain way about me, or I like you just start analyzing everything.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, I think we need to just be filming our groups, our groups that we divide up, and maybe we need to do a lot of groups, like maybe we need to do groups of six, groups of five.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like I that I I can understand.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_04: But I think that in that class time, we're filming groups, and then, like you said, Courtney, if you want to do solos and trios, I think that then you pay the videographer to stay longer.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_04: You pay whatever studio you're renting to rent the studio for longer, and then that's when that happens because it is not fun.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I and this is coming from a person who I have been called out to be filmed solo in front of class.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_04: And let me tell you, it feels good.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_04: There is like no, there's nothing that like boosts your ego as much as that.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_04: But the flip side of that is then I also know what it feels like to not be the person that gets called out to be filmed.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that your answer is to film your groups in your class, and if you want separate solos, trios, duets, that needs to happen outside of the class time that other people paid for.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_00: I really do think it comes down to transparency.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, if you're walking into a class that's going to be filmed, I think you sh every single person in that room should be it, you know, it should be knowledge that there will be a camera at some point.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_00: I have come across times where you know a choreographer might stop me and I might be just laying around doing something around and um they'll be like, hey, can you come in and like film film the last part of my class or whatever?
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing out of my mouth is, did you have a was there supposed to be a camera in the room?
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: If not, you need to talk to every single one of your dancers or anything to just to make sure that you know it it is okay with them and that it is like a solid okay collective because yeah, you're you're paying for that time, right?
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and if I'm not necessarily supposed to be in there, every single person has to be on the same exact page.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I also I I've also seen where like choreographers there will be cameras in the room or supposed to have cameras in the room, but I have noticed that everybody does things so different, and that's also why I started doing the whole top of class thing, is that I wanted to make sure and talk because I have gone in with thinking from like an email that oh, this choreographer wants me to come in 25 minutes at the end of their class.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: The moment I walk in there and we start talking and like talking about expectation or whatever, sometimes they would actually I would say probably 70% of the time they'll go, actually, you know what?
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_00: You only come in the last like five, only come in the last 10.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or actually, can we do something at the end of class?
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's totally cool.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm totally okay with that because you know, I'm there anyways, so who cares how long I'm actually in the room for?
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it comes down to the teacher of of how long they want that in or what the material is they want out of it, because you know, let's time-wise for me, the longer I'm in the room, that's primarily because I might be working on a different type of video.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: It might not be like one take groups or or solos or anything like that.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like there might be a whole I might need B-roll for a whole promotional video for them or something like that.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if they don't want that promotional video, 99% of the time they're gonna say, I only want you for five minutes, or I only want you.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get one round of groups, and so that way everybody can get seen.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that does happen, and I always try to encourage that.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's at least one round of groups where everybody is is in a shot wide.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if you really want to do something at the end of the class, like let's do something at the end of class.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like if there's time, absolutely.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I do know some studios, you know, they they have overlapping classes, so that's where it gets a little, you know, I mean, gray or something, but yeah, if they want to, they you know, we can always we can always do stuff outside of the room, or we can always do something like that.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the class time completely dependent on the choreographer, right?
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like if they want to take that that little bit of time to, you mean do a couple solos or whatever, like you know, unfortunately that's up to them.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's not up to me.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just there to capture it.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_00: But it's always an encouraging, you know, what do you feel comfortable doing?
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And what does you mean, what do you want out of this experience?
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really what it comes down to what do you want out of this experience?
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want to walk away with?
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: At least on my end.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, like make sure everybody's in the camera, right?
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like at least, at the least, what you can do is one round of groups, and I always encourage that.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, at least where everybody is it has a chance to be in front of the camera.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if we can go two, three, absolutely.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that because this is so new, and I'm open to hear, um, and we can be wrapping up shortly, but um, I'm open to hear if there's any other ideas, like your suggestion of of doing those more quote unquote select hoops once class is over in the in between time before the next class.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like that there is an opportunity for a lot of these studios to take advantage of the demand of and how many dancers want footage, but maybe they don't want it in that class setting.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they want to come to class and learn the footage, and then maybe immediately following class, there's a studio upstairs that's already open with lighting already set up, with a camera already waiting and ready, and we can just crank out a few takes of you doing it in a trio or you doing it in a solo.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's an extra fee, and I bet you people will pay for it because they're gonna be guaranteed that's and it's gonna be a win-win for everyone where it's not taking up valuable class time, where class can be about class.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_01: The cameras can be taking the like organic class footage and not staged class footage.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then we can go upstairs after class, the people who want to, the people who pay extra to get that staged footage for their reels, for whatever they need.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think the studios need to get a little bit more innovative on how can we make this better experience for everyone.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because personally, right now, I don't think it's it.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I as a class taker and as a teacher, I don't think what's happening now is is working.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of frustration.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's ways that we can adapt and be creative and uh check off all the boxes for everyone and make the experience uh great for every dancer in the room, make it seamless for the choreographers, because I personally think that like the dancers deserve the footage, but really the footage should be promotion for the teacher and promoting the studios.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like technically that's what the footage should be for, but the dancers deserve it if they want it now that it's everywhere.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_01: And especially if you're well, without them, there's no selector.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And especially if you are taking class time to do selects, then you have to make sure those dancers get the footage.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, how do we how do we fix this?
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where do we eliminate selects in in a filming class and say selects are designated for post-class only?
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And but then how do you know what I mean?
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there just needs to be more conversations on how to make this better across the board, which is why we're now that's a really interesting idea.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_04: And like then the hard part of that is then it creates like another economic burden, you know.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe my budget for that week only allows me to take the one class, so then I can't pay the five, six, ten, fifteen, twenty dollar fee to then get filmed separate after that.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_04: But then the other flip side of that is that's cheaper than hiring Jake on my own.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like, you know, it's just complicated.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's the complicated, and I unfortunately wish I had like a better solution for it.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_04: And like I said, every week that I teach, I like learn something new and have to figure out how to adjust.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_04: But I definitely am on board with really just filming groups in class that you've paid to be filmed in.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm actually curious how the three of you feel about being in film classes where the teacher goes out alone in the class and has themselves film.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_04: How do you feel about that?
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, unhappy.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've done it.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't I don't think it's uh I I don't hate it.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it depends.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I usually will kick off the filming with me going out and kind of just like iceberg, ice cream.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, kind of like showing how it's done a little bit, showing as a demonstration of like this is what the choreography like, these are the textures, these are the dynamics, this is the approach and using it as a learning experience, but then also, yes, like breaking that ice because there's a lot of people.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, all right, it's time to go into trios, who wants to?
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone just looks around and like doesn't want to.
• 1:15:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll be like, all right, I'm gonna go out, I'm gonna hit it once, I'm gonna show you.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, here's I'll do a solo for you, and then after this, let's bang out trios and three people come onto the floor type of thing.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how I've approached it.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great idea, Courtney.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't yeah, because that feels very different than like last here.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_04: I am.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like me show you how it's done.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_04: And because I I like personally, I'm like, I don't ever want to be like all most of my footage from my own classes is being alone after everyone has left because I'm like, I'm nervous about all of my students then like watching me dance.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's a great idea, Courtney.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_04: You're right.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_04: It does like break the ice.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't feel like it's my turn to dance.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_04: It's just like, okay, here we go.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like we're starting it off, you know.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_04: So that's a great idea.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it shouldn't be like no solo should be done multiple times.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen, I've said, I've stood in a class and there the person like has their assistant go out once and then they might have messed up.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_01: So then they don't restart it, they just let them finish and then they put other people out, and then they're like, hey, go back out and do it one more time.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't need to watch them do it again.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've already watched them mess it up once.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, come on.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_01: That was your one and done.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_01: You get one chance.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and of course, again, it's class.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to mess up.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to feel like you can mess up, and you sometimes feel like you can't mess up when you're in front of the camera.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then you let the you wasted everyone's time, you let your the choreographer down, you let yourself down.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a really like it's a it messes with your mind so much.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_01: It really does.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder if somebody could capitalize on that moment though of filming, showing, promoting this is where we mess up here and we film it.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_03: And it's okay.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like you'd have to get some like hardcore consent because you know nobody wants to show that.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_03: But like that is reality.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it is, you know, what if it's not perfect and we are actually physically in the caption saying, This isn't perfect.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_03: If you come here and take this class, you get the opportunity to fail and we're gonna help you fix it.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I don't know.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's a marketing ploy that way too.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_04: It is also just hard too, because like even the other day, I got footage back from a class that I took in New York.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_04: And in that class, I felt amazing.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like I was like, this, I'm living, I was dripping sweat.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_04: I felt like I was making all these cool acting choices, and then I got the footage back and I watched it and I was like, oh, I it's like I don't look as good as I thought I did.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_04: And that's always like kind of disheartening.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_04: And then I made myself post it anyway because I was like, no, like you're just in class.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_04: Like just post the video.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_04: You went to class and like you danced, and I had a great time when I was in that class.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was like, just post the footage.
• 1:17:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like it doesn't, it doesn't matter that you like did the wrong turn or whatever.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think that's like another important part of being filmed, is that yes, there is this pressure to be perfect, but maybe we can just start making it more of like how it used to feel when you had your iPhone in class of just like, no, I just took class yesterday.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_04: That's actually what it's about.
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a good point too, because I think that like if someone's viewing content on let's, you know, let's be real, casting directors, they have they go to our Instagram, they look.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's our business card these days.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So like if they see a video of you in a studio space getting filmed, they should have they should be thinking of different things.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_01: They should be thinking of like this is class, so it might not be perfect, or oh wow, look at all that they learned in an hour class and look at how this looks already.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's really exciting.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they're they pick up quickly and they pay attention to details and they're already applying style and performance in an hour and a half class setting versus a reel which has a thousand takes which you prepped and prepared that material.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that even like the setting of where the footage is being taken should have some thought behind it when people are viewing it so they can understand this is a class video versus this is a a performance reel that I've practiced and prepared for versus a performance, which let's be real.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's okay.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you go to you go on stage for a performance, you've rehearsed that dance.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be perfect versus class is more vulnerable.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is that sacred place.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And now that there are cameras in there, it's okay if we mess up.
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, Chloe, it's okay to post things that might not feel our best because it is we have to remember it's class.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's and I think that's the end of the day what everyone's main focus is is we want to take class for class.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_01: We want to have that safe place to train and mess up and fail and grow and learn from.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that sometimes gets lost when it's all about the perfect Instagram post.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_04: Jake, is there like a pet peeve that you have when you're filming dancers?
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like something that we should know that like makes your life easier when you're filming us?
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my thing too.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you know what?
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_00: I should have known better.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_00: I got too close, you kicked me.
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_00: That was fine.
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_00: It is what it is.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have full- No, I'm talking about the dancers.
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about the dancers.
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, I have been kicked by dancers, like fully like camera flips over and everything.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_00: But that's also my opinion.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's also my fault as well.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not just on them or anything like that.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, here's my thing.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like um a camera, a camera isn't just a tool.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_00: You mean when you get brought when it when we're brought into the class, like it really should just be tr treated as a tool, a tool to learn and grow, and a tool to promote and highlight, and just showcase all the beautiful choreographers and dancers and and everything.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if you mess up, that's okay.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, nothing is permanent, regardless of whether you think the footage is permanent or not, like it it it we lose footage all the time.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or we we don't you don't you can do whatever you want with it, but it also is a chance to just learn and grow and continue to learn and grow.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_00: But there's really nothing that I would say a dancer like there's a pet peeve or anything, or what a dancer should be doing or anything like that, because if you're being your authentic self, then it comes across.
• 1:20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, as as long as you're being you, then the footage reflects it.
• 1:21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you're just you know what I mean?
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_00: You want to go crazy and and and really put on a show.
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_00: I encourage it.
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do whatever you want.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_00: But if you also want to play that like a little bit more relaxed, it that's all right too.
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it it it really is just um it's just a space that we're all just kind of being creative in.
• 1:21:21
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't really have a pep pee or anything like that.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just kind of there to just that's good to know though.
• 1:21:27
  SPEAKER_04: You know, don't kick the videographer.
• 1:21:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's really how just don't kick the videographer.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Don't break my camera.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Don't break, I'll cry.
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_00: You want to see me cry out there?
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's fine.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's all good.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's no one's fault.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, just be you.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sweet, y'all.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this was a wonderful chat.
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing, and also thank you to all of the people who contributed that I shared some of their voices in this episode as well.
• 1:21:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's helpful to hear from our community and hear other perspectives alongside all of ours.
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it was wonderful chatting with you.
• 1:22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is an important topic.
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like Leslie said, I think there probably will need to be a part two for sure.
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_01: So stay tuned for that uh with new voices and new perspectives.
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And to Jake and Chloe, thanks for being on Making the Impact.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_01: We're so happy to have you here.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you for having me.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_01: So to end the episode, we always have our guests lead out with one final thought.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you can talk to whoever you'd like.
• 1:22:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to talk to the videographers, if you want to talk to students as a teacher from the teacher side, if you want to talk to other professionals, the competitive dancers who are up and coming, whoever you want to talk to when it comes to cameras in the classroom.
• 1:22:41
  SPEAKER_04: My final thought is that the camera is your ally, it's a tool.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_04: And if you want to be in class and you want to be filmed, then that's amazing.
• 1:22:52
  SPEAKER_04: And we're so lucky that we get to do that.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_04: So try not to be scared of it.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_04: Look at it as your scene partner and have a good time and trust yourself.
• 1:23:00
  SPEAKER_04: And then also take class that's also not filmed.
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_04: Do both.
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just like Chloe said, we're there to support you.
• 1:23:07
  SPEAKER_00: So have fun, be yourself, and it'll be great.
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you enjoyed our latest episode all about cameras in the classroom.
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out to our special guests for joining us.
• 1:23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to follow them on Instagram.
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_01: You can find Jake at Jake Ellen Smith and Chloe at Chloe Robert Standard.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_03: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcast, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:23:37
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• 1:23:44
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• 1:23:52
  SPEAKER_03: Join now at Impact Dance Educators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast will be hosting a live podcast event in the heart of New York City at the Capizio flagship store in Times Square.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Mark your calendars for Saturday, March 30th, 2024, and join us live in person for a jam-packed day of dance fun, freebies, and more.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Our live podcast recording is completely free to attend, and all attendees will receive a swag bag sponsored by Capizio, making the impact exclusive merchandise and coupons from our sponsors.
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Meet your hosts, Courtney and Leslie at the live event and ask questions from the audience during our QA recording all about the dance industry and the competitive dance world.
• 1:24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Dancers, teachers, studio owners, professionals, parents, and all dance lovers are welcome to attend.
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And for all the dancers out there, we can't host a dance event without a dance class.
• 1:24:47
  SPEAKER_01: I will be kicking off the event by teaching a one-hour jazz class for a design and up overlooking Times Square in a beautiful New York City dance studio.
• 1:24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Pre-registration for class is now open.
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_01: After the live recording, it's time to mix, mingle, and shop.
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Take photos with Courtney and Leslie, network with the NYC dance community, and stock up on your dance season favorites with Capezio.
• 1:25:08
  SPEAKER_01: We can't wait to bring our live podcast to New York City and would like to thank Capizio for sponsoring this event.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_01: RSVP Now and register for class at the link in our show notes.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_03: Season five of Making the Impact just keeps coming with new episodes this spring.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_03: Stay tuned for nutrition and dance, advice from veteran dance parents, and a focus on concert dance.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Happy competition season, y'all.
• 1:25:31
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next week.
• 1:25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Until then, keep dancing.