Latest / The Unmaking / S01E01 Nathan Weathington: You need someone to do the math around the art, otherwise you don't get to do the art.

Transcript

S01E01 Nathan Weathington: You need someone to do the math around the art, otherwise you don't get to do the art. · The Unmaking

0:14
SPEAKER_00: Te Mata Au, Klutha River.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: What does this river mean to you?
0:18
SPEAKER_01: I love the Klutha River.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: That's why I moved here.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: Great place to live.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: Big into fly fishing and rivers in general.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: So it's the headwaters of the biggest river in New Zealand.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: So it's a very important piece of fresh water in New Zealand.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: You moved to New Zealand or you moved to Albert Town for the Klutha?
0:35
SPEAKER_01: I moved to New Zealand to go fly fishing,
0:37
SPEAKER_01: which is not the most responsible answer,
0:38
SPEAKER_01: but that's the real answer.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: And then yeah,
0:41
SPEAKER_01: when we got the chance to live here in Albert Town,
0:43
we jumped at it and it's been an amazing place to live and
0:47
raise our boys.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: Were rivers a big part of your childhood as well?
0:50
SPEAKER_00: Because it was Bremen, Georgia, is that right?
0:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not so much.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: It was more muddy water and little ponds out in pastures and all.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't the best landscape in the world.
1:02
I enjoyed it when I was a kid,
1:03
but I definitely wanted to get out of there as I got older.
1:06
What sort of age were you at when you realized this is not the
1:09
place where I'm
1:10
going to grow old Very young I knew that it wasn't the right
1:13
fit for me so I was
1:16
always trying to figure out how am I getting out of here and
1:18
that was always the
1:19
mission and however by all means necessary I was leaving Did
1:24
you have a deadline on
1:25
that in terms of by when As soon as I finished high school I
1:29
went to university
1:29
there that was okay but then as soon as university was over I
1:32
left I don't even
1:33
SPEAKER_01: think I stayed for the graduation party I left immediately
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Friends and family tend to take that sort of stuff quite personally.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: How did that go down?
1:42
Was that part of the reason why you felt I've got to get out of
1:45
this place?
1:45
SPEAKER_01: My family's amazing.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: They're amazing.
1:47
It was a weird one because I graduated as a civil engineer in
1:50
98 and there was a
1:50
SPEAKER_01: lot of work around.
1:52
and so to explain to my dad that I was leaving that behind to
1:55
go travel around and
1:56
get out of there it was pretty upsetting to him but then my mom
2:00
loved it she's like
2:00
here's a camera have a good time so she encouraged it my dad
2:04
kind of he came around
2:05
to it eventually and it was kind of a I worked so much as a kid
2:08
that I kind of
2:09
needed a break so I worked all the way through so I worked as a
2:13
professional
2:13
engineer while studying to be an engineer so I co-oped all the
2:16
way through
2:17
So I was kind of living this adult life even when I was a kid
2:20
and so but then by
2:21
the time I graduated I had enough money and stuff on my resume
2:24
that I had a few
2:25
SPEAKER_01: options and so yeah I took them.
2:27
That's not that typical in terms of having that degree of drive
2:31
and motivation and
2:33
SPEAKER_00: ambition at that sort of age where did that come from?
2:35
The original ambition and drive came from I need to get out I
2:38
got to do something
2:39
to get out of here and the you know I think a lot of people are
2:43
like oh yeah I'm
2:44
SPEAKER_01: athletic and then
2:45
You see a real athlete and you're like,
2:47
okay,
2:47
that's not going to be a path.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: There's aliens out here.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: You figure out what you're laying.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, well, math is my thing.
2:52
So I was really good at math and that math at the end of the
2:54
day was allowed me to leave.
2:56
And so I focused on that and pushed myself probably too hard
2:59
and really wanted to
3:00
SPEAKER_01: be a bit of a perfectionist and went to engineering,
3:03
SPEAKER_01: did really well in engineering.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: And then after that, I didn't have the right fit.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: I was working in a big kind of corporate place.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: I was offered a lot of jobs coming out of school,
3:13
SPEAKER_01: but there were more oil and gas and development.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: And I just didn't want to die like that.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: I had a bit of a kind of come into Jesus moment in Atlanta.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: So I was working for the Southern Company.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: It's the largest electric utility in the world.
3:28
And they had picked a couple of us to go to this special
3:30
meeting with the youngest
3:31
SPEAKER_01: vice president in the history of the company.
3:33
And we were kind of tapped as the up and coming guys that were
3:37
fast tracking.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:39
And the future of the company,
3:40
one of the biggest,
3:41
greatest corporations in the States.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: And it is when they took us to his house.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: And that's when it hit me.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: I was like,
3:47
SPEAKER_01: so if I do everything right,
3:50
I'm going to end up with a McMansion in Atlanta and a timeshare
3:53
in Panama City.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this isn't enough for me.
3:56
In that moment or afterwards but the second I shook his hand
3:59
and they were like
4:00
this could be you if everything goes correct I was like wow
4:04
this is this is a grand
4:06
slam and he you know when he started talking about his
4:08
timeshare and the Gulf of
4:10
you know Florida I was like I need something else but I don't
4:13
mean that like a
4:13
self-righteous way I mean in a everybody needs their own fit
4:18
and everything comes
4:18
SPEAKER_01: with compromises
4:20
How different was that for you the way that your parents picked
4:23
in terms of you
4:23
said your mom was stoked and here's the camera but your dad
4:26
perhaps didn't
4:26
understand it quite so much he was more of a sort of straight
4:28
laced My decisions if
4:30
you looked at them on paper would make you assume that I had
4:34
money based my
4:35
decisions not on anything financial which is something people
4:38
do if they have a lot
4:39
of money in the bank I don't I never still to this day don't
4:41
have any money in the
4:42
bank so financially my decisions were just stupid as hell I
4:47
mean beyond idiotic and
4:48
SPEAKER_01: have been personally
4:50
And so yeah,
4:51
so I chose a different path that didn't pay very well that
4:54
suited me.
4:56
And how long was that process then from that realization then
4:59
to making change?
5:01
SPEAKER_00: What did that look like?
5:02
SPEAKER_01: I knew the date.
5:02
I was going to finish my degree because I wanted to put that
5:04
under my belt.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: And the day that I finished,
5:06
SPEAKER_01: I ditched the girlfriend,
5:09
SPEAKER_01: turned down the job,
5:10
SPEAKER_01: sold everything,
5:11
SPEAKER_01: got in a car and drove away the next day.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: And it was the best decision.
5:14
And then ended up in Montana and then in Florida and everything
5:18
kind of started
5:18
SPEAKER_01: working out from there.
5:20
And so that was more of a you know this is not what I want I
5:24
don't quite know what
5:25
I want but I know this isn't it I didn't know what I knew that
5:29
it was kind of like
5:30
a midlife crisis when I was 23 I was like I don't know what I
5:33
want but I'd rather I
5:34
mean this sounds dramatic but at the time I was like I'd rather
5:37
die than live this
5:40
type of life It just was that awkward of a fit for me I was
5:44
like so I'm just going
5:45
SPEAKER_01: to leave and figure it out and I did it still took me
5:48
Three or four years to find the right path that was both kind
5:51
of intellectually
5:51
SPEAKER_01: satisfying and kind of fit who I am as a person.
5:55
Were there moments where you were tempted to go back or where
5:58
the pull was back
5:58
where there were opportunities to where you sort of thought
6:01
well actually maybe you
6:02
know but no I was never really tempted to go back I was always
6:05
going forward I kept
6:07
just going further and further and as my mother says now if I
6:10
go any further now
6:10
I'm actually getting closer to home I'm circling back around
6:14
the planet yeah
6:15
SPEAKER_00: And so was the Bahamas that was that part of that journey then?
6:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was probably the biggest step in the right direction.
6:21
So I was in Montana,
6:22
fishing and bartending and ended up in Florida for a little
6:25
bit.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: And that was just a, Florida is just a train wreck of a place and people.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: Why do you go there though?
6:30
What would they,
6:30
at that age,
6:31
I understand retirement center,
6:32
but in terms of as a young person.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: I had a good time there,
6:35
SPEAKER_01: don't get me wrong,
6:36
SPEAKER_01: but I was offered a high paying engineering job,
6:38
SPEAKER_01: took that.
6:39
and again got so bored I just couldn't deal with it and then
6:42
again I've kind of
6:44
crossed the line of a lot of things and I realized that hey if
6:48
I stay here any
6:49
longer I'm gonna have to go to a variety of meetings for god
6:53
knows what you know
6:54
some kind of addiction meetings and I packed everything up quit
6:57
the job the girl in
6:58
SPEAKER_01: the apartment all in about two hours and drove away
7:01
So that happened twice and both times it was the right decision
7:05
and ended up I
7:06
landed a job in the Bahamas and then when I moved there that's
7:09
when I was on the
7:10
SPEAKER_01: right path
7:12
Was it the right decision through luck or was I mean like
7:16
intentionality is great
7:17
but intentionality without awareness is not always a great
7:21
thing when you talk
7:21
about those decisions that you sort of make and perhaps weren't
7:24
the greatest
7:25
decisions looking back They weren't the greatest decision from
7:27
the outside looking
7:28
in for me they were the right decision I've read a little bit
7:31
about the concept of
7:32
luck and luck being basically it's just luck is whoever's
7:35
paying attention and you
7:36
SPEAKER_01: know who is observing and
7:39
I was biking the Bahamas a very small remote island so when
7:43
people think of the
7:44
Bahamas I think margaritas and white sand beaches and they
7:49
don't realize there's
7:49
700 islands and so I was biking this island with no people on
7:52
it hardly and found a
7:54
school and started talking to them and they said why don't you
7:58
come teach math for
7:59
us and then I was like it sounds like a great idea and yeah
8:03
packed everything up
8:04
came down to interview and while I was interviewing the teacher
8:06
who was supposed to
8:07
SPEAKER_01: be teaching math quit
8:09
and I just kind of stuck and it worked out what sort of age
8:12
were you teaching high
8:13
school yeah a little bit of middle school but mostly high
8:15
school so it was a
8:17
semester abroad program for high school kids and with your
8:20
background piece of piss
8:21
or was it did you have to like do some remedial stuff to pick
8:24
up to be able to then
8:26
teach no math was always my thing so I could kind of walk in
8:30
there and teach kind
8:30
of geometry through calculus I don't know if I could do it now
8:33
I might need to
8:33
SPEAKER_01: refresh now but it was more about
8:35
SPEAKER_01: building just miniature community in the middle of nowhere.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: And so we were building our own power sources, food, buildings.
8:44
It's a real sustainable kind of village out in the middle of
8:47
nowhere while teaching math.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: Which just kind of happened?
8:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: Well,
8:51
SPEAKER_01: there was a guy,
8:52
SPEAKER_01: a crazy guy,
8:53
SPEAKER_01: a Navy SEAL guy named Chris Maxey,
8:55
SPEAKER_01: who I'm actually still best friends with.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, so as a team of people, it was intense.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Our day started at like 5 a.m.
9:05
and we were up and we all exercised as a community ran half
9:07
marathons swam for
9:10
miles and miles and miles and yeah it was it is not what people
9:12
are thinking of
9:13
when they are picturing the Bahamas it was very intense most
9:16
people in the
9:17
isolation isolation did most people in we'd lose probably half
9:20
our staff to
9:21
isolation every year but I loved it that you know I started to
9:24
get a bit lonely but
9:25
then I ended up meeting my wife down there how many staff were
9:27
on location
9:28
It was at the time like 15 to 20 minutes yeah it's not many
9:32
there's good odds
9:32
though you managed to find a life partner there well imagine
9:36
being stuck in a room
9:37
of 15 people yeah for three to four years like it that'd do
9:42
people then it's an
9:43
interesting experiment and so I had been there and definitely
9:46
most of the women
9:47
SPEAKER_01: didn't like me in that way
9:49
And then when I heard that this new girl was coming in off the
9:53
boat,
9:53
I was in.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: It didn't go very well for a very, very long time.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: I was kind of hitting on my wife the first night.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: I was a little bit tipsy because I was really nervous.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: And I kind of was on a date with another woman.
10:08
at the same place I remember my wife being like aren't you here
10:14
on a date with say
10:16
her name was Kim and I was like well I went with honesty I was
10:20
like yeah and I am
10:22
and she's like you know she can hear you right now so uh yeah
10:24
so my wife's choices
10:25
for men was nobody or me I was the only single guy yeah so it
10:30
was really nobody or
10:31
me for like a year and a half and she chose nobody for a very
10:35
long time awkwardly
10:36
SPEAKER_01: long time
10:37
SPEAKER_01: And eventually she chose me, eventually.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: But not at first.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: And so where did you go after that?
10:43
SPEAKER_00: Because that's,
10:44
SPEAKER_00: you know,
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Americans,
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Canadians,
10:47
SPEAKER_00: not always great in terms of,
10:49
I imagine a Canadian perhaps would struggle to go and live in
10:53
America as a first
10:54
SPEAKER_00: choice,
10:54
SPEAKER_00: typically?
10:57
liberal leaning perhaps I suppose that way as a framer
11:01
Canadians and Americans have
11:03
way more alike than they like to admit they also have a lot of
11:05
differences as well
11:07
but if you start kind of cutting apart cultures like people
11:10
from Washington State
11:10
have more in common with BC than BC has with Alberta for
11:14
example you know and
11:15
Alberta has more in common with Texas than they do Ottawa so
11:19
yeah there's little
11:20
pockets of culture in there and so but my wife and I come from
11:23
extreme opposite
11:24
SPEAKER_01: cultures which is a good kind of
11:27
SPEAKER_01: Anti dating app lesson, you know, we're the opposite.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: We would have never matched up on anything.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: In terms of social background or beliefs?
11:36
SPEAKER_01: I grew up crazy conservative community.
11:38
And she grew up in the crazy liberal kind of hippie infested
11:43
Vancouver Island.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: And but at the same time, I'm not biased towards anything.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: I see the humor in that.
11:49
In fact,
11:50
that's what my second book was about was about these two
11:53
cultures colliding.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: And I thought it was hilarious.
11:56
Let's go back to the writing then I mean you because that
11:58
looked like that was a
11:59
phase then was it you published two books three books over a
12:03
relatively short
12:03
period of time two years so I've already said my background is
12:07
numbers it's just
12:08
math I barely did anything with words two degrees did business
12:12
degree still I can
12:14
write but I was never a writer did not even didn't keep a
12:16
journal so the kind of
12:18
creative writing thing was a very much a fluke it started about
12:23
in Korea at a
12:24
SPEAKER_01: business function
12:26
There Was A Karaoke Thing Going On And They Were Like You Gotta
12:28
Sing And I Say I
12:29
Don't Sing And They Said Do Something Funny And So I Got Up And
12:32
Did A Little Stand
12:33
Up Thing That I Had In My Head Did Really Well Like
12:36
Spontaneously Or That Was
12:37
Something That You Had Before I Had Always Been Writing Jokes
12:41
In My Head And I
12:41
Didn't Really Realize It Big Comedy Fan And So Then I Did It It
12:46
Went Really Well
12:47
Ended Up Back In Canada And At This Point I'm Running A Tech
12:51
Company Along With
12:52
SPEAKER_01: Some Newspapers
12:54
And so then I wrote 12 horoscopes to go in the back of it But
12:58
it's weird because
12:59
I'm the suit guy I'm running the newspaper that I'm also the
13:02
asshole writer in And
13:04
so they took off I wasn't planning on writing these horoscopes
13:08
I wanted my readers
13:09
to write them So I wasn't planning on being a writer And my
13:13
vision was I was
13:13
writing 12 jokes and that was it By lunch on Monday they were
13:17
sold out for the year
13:18
SPEAKER_01: For more money than this newspaper had ever made
13:21
But then I realized that nobody could send in the horoscopes
13:23
fast enough.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: So now I'm writing 12, I have to write 12 jokes a day, seven days a week.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: And that was when I realized that, oh, I can do this.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Like breathing.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: I could write, no, it was no problem at all.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: Time-wise, like you got 12 jokes, how long would that take you?
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Would you sit yourself then,
13:36
SPEAKER_00: put yourself under,
13:37
SPEAKER_00: okay,
13:37
SPEAKER_00: I've got to do it,
13:37
SPEAKER_00: would you leave,
13:38
SPEAKER_00: do you like the last minute?
13:39
SPEAKER_01: That was the weird thing about it.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: I didn't even have to do that.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: It just flew out.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: It was like, just like breathing.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: I could write 12 hooks, no problem, no pressure.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: There was never even any hesitation at all.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Where did that come from where's that humor that sense of humor and your
13:53
appreciation for the funny and the laugh and the I think always
13:56
being a comedy fan
13:58
like a lot of people are but also I read a lot of comedy
14:01
watched a lot of comedy a
14:02
lot of stand-up but I didn't realize that I was funny kind of
14:06
until that point
14:08
which is really late in life because I'm in my 30s now I got
14:11
two kids young young
14:13
SPEAKER_01: just born babies and this kind of second career kind of fell in my lap
14:18
SPEAKER_01: So I'm writing the horoscopes.
14:19
And then one of the guys in Korea ends up back in Canada as a
14:23
big publisher.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: He figures out that the horoscopes are me.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: He knows of my funny childhood.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: And he said, I want you to write a book and write your stories.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm not a writer, I'm writing jokes.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: And he said, send them to this lady.
14:38
And that was Jody Caro,
14:40
one of the smartest,
14:41
most brilliant people I've ever met.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: And I sent her three of my not kind of boring stories, actually.
14:47
and she's just very but it takes a very polite person who's so
14:50
smart that they
14:51
don't have to insult other people and she just emailed back she
14:54
goes these are
14:54
hilarious and they need some work but we can get there yeah
14:57
yeah and so then I get
14:59
the book deal and the child now I'm writing up so there's two
15:03
different ways to do
15:03
this okay you get a book deal should I go learn to write
15:07
probably should probably
15:08
take some creative writing classes let's think about this let's
15:11
slow down or screw
15:14
SPEAKER_01: it let's just jump on both feet and see where we land
15:16
and at that point I was like that's what we're gonna do I was
15:19
like I got two kids I
15:20
got a job so it's kind of a weird time to pursue a writing
15:23
career so yeah I
15:25
SPEAKER_01: basically learned to try to write a book while writing my first book
15:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, and how did you approach that then?
15:30
SPEAKER_00: Was this something you say, okay, I'm going to plan this out.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: There's going to be,
15:33
SPEAKER_00: or is this,
15:33
I'm just going to write and is this going to come out of me
15:35
like a fire hydrant and
15:36
SPEAKER_00: hopefully let's,
15:37
SPEAKER_00: let's see where it goes.
15:38
So the first book was very much all the throwback stories from
15:42
my childhood was pretty intense.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: And most of the stories in that book,
15:48
SPEAKER_01: in my first book,
15:48
SPEAKER_01: where the hell were your parents are,
15:50
SPEAKER_01: have been told every time I went home,
15:53
SPEAKER_01: everyone would always say you have,
15:54
SPEAKER_01: please tell us a story about derailing the train.
15:57
Please tell us a story about the fire and the standoff with the
15:59
cuffs you know and
16:00
so they'd been told so the details were there the storyline was
16:03
there because we
16:05
had told them a million times at this point and so it was
16:07
really about putting them
16:08
on paper and giving them a structure and adding some
16:11
descriptors and some jokes and
16:13
then having a brilliant editor having the right editor with
16:17
humor is huge when I
16:19
say that humor is so subjective so humor needs to be
16:23
grammatically incorrect a lot
16:24
SPEAKER_01: of times
16:25
and the joke takes precedence over everything and so if you
16:28
want to be too correct
16:29
you can definitely screw up some jokes especially if you're a
16:32
little bit too tight
16:33
so yeah I've had some brilliant editors help me along the way
16:36
what in terms of the
16:38
the actual book writing then how did you do that was this are
16:42
you a structure guy
16:43
or did you just I feel like writing I'm just gonna I'm sorry
16:46
Morgan I know that
16:47
it's dinner time and then the kids need this happening but I've
16:50
got I need to go
16:51
SPEAKER_00: and write right now or is this okay from 9 to 11 and
16:55
I just fit it into over the top of my life I didn't book it out
16:59
separate I had
16:59
little kids and I fully embraced that and so I'd go to work and
17:04
if I'm being honest
17:05
I could do my work and I I'm a hyper efficient person when I'm
17:10
on and so I had a
17:11
lot of free time at work in an office and some office work
17:13
requires you to be at
17:16
SPEAKER_01: work more than there is work to do
17:18
And so I would just use all that time to write and then I'd
17:20
print it out.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: And then while my son is out catching stuff in the tide pools,
17:25
SPEAKER_01: and I'm sitting out there watching him,
17:27
SPEAKER_01: I'd proofread.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I wrote it really fast.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: I wrote 60, 70,000 words really fast.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: And then we shaved it down to about 40 or 50.
17:36
And what was the actual then that experience like of then
17:40
publishing and going and
17:41
SPEAKER_00: doing book tours,
17:43
SPEAKER_00: and I'm guessing readings,
17:44
SPEAKER_00: those sorts of things as well?
17:45
SPEAKER_00: A little bit out of body experience as a former civil engineer?
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Like going from a very structured civil engineer,
17:56
SPEAKER_01: it's non creative,
17:59
SPEAKER_01: it's completely in the opposite direction.
18:01
So it was like this thing that's in you that I didn't even know
18:04
this was in me.
18:05
and now we're running with it and doing really well and selling
18:08
a lot of books and
18:09
I knew who I was and what I was doing and what I was selling
18:11
like I didn't I didn't
18:13
rock in there being like hey Hemingway's here I'm like I'm
18:15
selling jokes okay like
18:16
let's be if you're looking to learn and so we were real honest
18:19
about the whole I'm
18:20
a new author I never oversold myself my wife described it as
18:25
when she when I would
18:25
come back from these big book tours she goes I've never seen
18:28
you work so hard and
18:30
SPEAKER_01: have so much fun making so little money
18:32
I was like yeah sums it up pretty much you know and so yeah we
18:35
but the tours were
18:37
oh they were a rush there was nothing like it and so I would do
18:40
these tours and
18:41
people would join me my family would join me friends would join
18:44
me through you know
18:44
Savannah and New Orleans and Atlanta I got to meet David
18:48
Sedaris there I almost got
18:50
to perform with Carl Heisen but he was sick that would have
18:51
been awesome there was
18:53
a couple performances we did in Savannah at the big stuff yeah
18:56
it was it was
18:56
SPEAKER_01: incredible and then I finished and did some
18:59
A little bit of kind of stand-up mixed with it at some
19:01
roughneck bars that went really well.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: Saw some people get beat up.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: It was a lot of fun.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: Do you sell many books in roughneck bars?
19:08
SPEAKER_00: Surprisingly.
19:09
We always were targeting men who don't read because a lot of
19:12
books aren't written
19:13
SPEAKER_01: for a man who's tired,
19:14
SPEAKER_01: who's got two little kids and is maybe out,
19:17
SPEAKER_01: you know,
19:18
SPEAKER_01: roofing all day.
19:19
So the whole book was designed around making you laugh and then
19:22
letting you fall asleep.
19:23
So we sold a lot of books that being said book money is
19:26
horrible but just the
19:28
structure of how they do it where you everybody shares in the
19:31
revenue and you take
19:32
all the expenses but I knew that going into it so yeah I
19:36
embraced it that I did it
19:37
correctly in the sense of don't slow down and question yourself
19:40
and I mean nobody
19:41
cares people talk themselves out of everything like I knew that
19:45
I wasn't a writer
19:45
SPEAKER_01: and still didn't care
19:47
You know there there are people who kind of sit around waiting
19:49
on some big book
19:50
deal or this or that it's like just if nobody's watching you
19:54
nobody cares just do
19:55
whatever you want to do and have fun with it and so just gas
19:58
pedal and see what
20:00
happens because you can sit around and waiting on that one book
20:02
deal and next thing
20:04
you know you just you lose it and you quit doing it so I've
20:06
kept writing since then
20:08
SPEAKER_01: on different other projects and then I write for the magazine now so
20:11
Yuanica tree one was a good one I didn't see that at the time
20:13
but I came across
20:14
that the other week I was just doing some research for this and
20:17
I thought shit did
20:18
somebody chop that down I didn't realize that and those are the
20:21
later ones the
20:22
original the ones that we're still known for were in Canada and
20:27
the reason I mean I
20:28
SPEAKER_01: hate to give away all the tricks but it's how you do it
20:31
What is the hot button issue And then make them angry in the
20:35
title If I make you
20:36
angry in the title I got you Enraged to engage Once you're
20:40
angry 90% of your brain
20:40
shuts down And you can write And the rest of it can be stupid
20:43
ass jokes And nobody
20:44
SPEAKER_01: will catch them
20:46
SPEAKER_00: And so what role does Mr. Astrology have these days?
20:49
SPEAKER_00: Is it just bad jokes for the kids?
20:52
SPEAKER_01: So we did a little desk calendar that we sold.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if there is an avenue for that.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm friends with a lot of the local newspapers.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: Might try to get them back in there.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: But because a lot of them, because I wrote, I got like 4,000.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: I got a lot of them.
21:04
Horoscopes but it is funny when people I tell people that
21:06
they're like what kind of
21:07
qualifications do you have and I'm like the same as everybody
21:10
else man like you
21:11
know they were fun though so yeah I might have to bring those
21:14
back because I still
21:15
have them and did your brain work that fast on multiple things
21:17
so you said with the
21:18
jokes how quickly they came numbers as well that's your world I
21:21
think my my
21:22
intelligence is very segmented I think there's three or four
21:25
things that I think I
21:26
operate at a high level and everything else maybe unusually low
21:30
level you know I
21:31
SPEAKER_01: think I can I got
21:33
Fishing jokes a little bit of cards and numbers and that's I
21:37
think that's about it.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: It's pretty short list
21:39
SPEAKER_00: And what are the brainwaves doing when you're fly fishing?
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Is this a meditative activity for you?
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Are you thinking about things?
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Is there self-talk?
21:47
SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
21:48
SPEAKER_01: That's why I try to avoid.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: It comes in sometimes.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Even those shitty cars where you've got to... Yeah, it's meditative.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: It's the one thing that it used to,
21:57
SPEAKER_01: not as much as it used to,
21:57
SPEAKER_01: but it used to really stop my brain.
21:59
SPEAKER_01: And that was immediate addiction from day one.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: And so the second I did it, I knew.
22:04
And that kind of helped guide my life in terms of where I ended
22:07
up living in New
22:08
SPEAKER_01: Zealand and the Bahamas.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: Montana and so yeah,
22:10
it really helped What's your relationship to America now into
22:14
Georgia where you
22:15
SPEAKER_00: grew up and Graham in that hometown?
22:17
SPEAKER_01: I I'll say first of all,
22:19
I'm the most patriotic new Kiwi that I know I have an
22:22
appreciation for this place
22:24
Unlike most people that I know because I have seen some other
22:27
things that aren't
22:28
SPEAKER_01: are a bad fit I think I have a weird relationship with it.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: The world needs the US and the southern states to operate at a high level
22:38
Whether they admit it or not We need them to operate At a
22:41
smooth high level But
22:44
they've got some things in place That are going to make it
22:46
difficult to do that
22:47
It's kind of collapsing on itself And hopefully they'll start
22:50
getting their stuff
22:51
together Because there's a lot of amazing people there And
22:53
there's a lot of amazing
22:53
people put in weird situations That turn weird I still to this
22:57
day have some weird
22:58
SPEAKER_01: habits about me Because I grew up there But yeah Humans are humans
23:04
SPEAKER_01: And I always say,
23:05
SPEAKER_01: you know,
23:05
SPEAKER_01: it's great for a Kiwi or a Canadian to be like,
23:08
SPEAKER_01: oh,
23:08
SPEAKER_01: point the finger at the Americans.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important to realize,
23:12
SPEAKER_01: not only are humans humans,
23:13
SPEAKER_01: we all come from the same people.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think we got to remember that and be like,
23:18
SPEAKER_01: okay,
23:19
SPEAKER_01: maybe let's start,
23:20
SPEAKER_01: what,
23:20
SPEAKER_01: what,
23:21
SPEAKER_01: where did the US go wrong?
23:22
SPEAKER_01: Let's maybe not do that.
23:24
Citizens United,
23:25
maybe,
23:26
maybe we should do something here in New Zealand to prevent
23:28
that.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's, you know, what health care issues?
23:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay, maybe
23:33
Their Separation Wealth Is A Bit Out Of Control The Guns You
23:35
Know There's Stuff You
23:36
Can Learn From Each Other Then Vice Versa Is That Not Getting
23:39
Harder Than Now Like
23:39
I Mean I Spent Three Three Months In Colorado Four Months In
23:43
Colorado Was Best
23:45
SPEAKER_00: Mates With Three Guys From Carbon Georgia
23:48
They taught me that and today I would say I probably couldn't
23:52
be friends with them
23:52
in terms of initially starting just with what social media has
23:56
done how we've got a
23:57
lot more polarised and we don't have those conversations like
23:59
absolute polar
24:00
opposites in terms of our backgrounds and I bring but we got on
24:02
great and I think
24:03
today that might be harder to form those relationships how do
24:07
you see that?
24:08
I can be friends I'm friends with a very wide variety of people
24:11
I'm friends with
24:12
far right wing nuts and far left wing nuts and everything in
24:16
between now can they
24:17
be friends with me that's the thing I don't know that I think
24:21
there's a thing over
24:22
there I call it political Tourette's and it's not so much it
24:27
doesn't anger me I
24:27
find it boring I have a twin brother we've talked about this a
24:31
lot I'll say oh man
24:34
SPEAKER_01: that fishing is amazing today
24:36
I'd be a lot better if I wasn't for them liberals and you're
24:38
like that's not even
24:39
on topic man and so this kind of bipolar biblical toggle switch
24:45
yes or no stuff and
24:46
the internet doesn't help that because there's a great
24:49
researcher out of UBC who
24:50
has showed that 98% of everything we read online is posted by
24:54
the bottom 5% of this
24:56
bell curve so we're literally watching entertainment from
25:00
people that we would
25:00
SPEAKER_01: never take advice from in real life and
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Keeping in mind, the internet doesn't function without anger.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: Like if you're looking at the internet for advice on politics,
25:10
SPEAKER_01: religion,
25:11
SPEAKER_01: marriage,
25:12
SPEAKER_01: like it's just a dumpster fire because real proper normal life is boring.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: Everybody wants to, you know, horrible marriage stories.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's entertaining.
25:21
You're going to tell a normal,
25:23
I got a normal wife and we kind of like each other.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: Great story.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: That's not content.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: That is not going to make a podcast.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: That's a boring podcast.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: Nobody's watching, so it doesn't make it to the top.
25:33
What role does boredom have in the role of creativity in terms
25:37
of,
25:38
you know?
25:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
25:39
SPEAKER_01: I think when you start getting bored,
25:41
SPEAKER_01: I think it can be important to then channel that to something.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: And I really am all my kids about this,
25:47
is when you feel a little bit bored not to pick up a device and
25:51
specifically look
25:51
SPEAKER_01: at those damn reels,
25:52
SPEAKER_01: those quick videos.
25:53
So I really,
25:55
I think,
25:56
have something on standby when you're bored,
25:58
write,
25:58
read.
26:00
Get up and go do something but just don't pick up that that
26:03
little tiny magic boxes
26:05
will suck away your time yeah do something productive with your
26:08
time yeah and i
26:09
think i think looking back to child and their creativity that
26:11
came from childhood
26:12
through boredom you know basically hitting a stone with a stick
26:15
or you know kicking
26:16
a can whatever it was really mundane games but it was forcing
26:21
us to actually think
26:23
and create and if there's always a solution there it's going to
26:27
be kind of hard
26:28
SPEAKER_01: is hard.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: Like when you got little people,
26:30
it's a lot of work and it's really easy to give them that
26:32
device and take a break
26:34
SPEAKER_01: or look at that device while you're raising them.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: And there's some pretty interesting research out there about,
26:40
SPEAKER_01: you know,
26:40
SPEAKER_01: breastfeeding while looking at your phone.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're supposed to be bored.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to be staring at that kid bored out of your mind.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: So you got to as a young parent embrace that boredom.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: I did it with mine.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: My youngest was two.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: So I went from suit-wearing,
26:54
serious business guy getting a lot of attention to sweatpants
26:58
and pancakes with a
26:59
SPEAKER_01: two-year-old.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: And that's a shift.
27:01
So on that kind of spectrum of important businessman to dad,
27:05
I went about as far as you could.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: And at first, this is the most boring thing I've ever done.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: But once I embraced the boredom and realized, this is way better.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Did you lose anything from that decision?
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Lost an enormous amount.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, my life worked out way better because of that.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: That allowed me to come to New Zealand.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: And so there's not going to be a fourth?
27:25
SPEAKER_00: You can say that already now?
27:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: I think I'm doing pretty good right now.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: Life's pretty smooth.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I need a major change at this point.
27:35
I am potentially pursuing some more creative ideas and a couple
27:40
other kind of out
27:41
SPEAKER_01: there type jobs just to make things interesting.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: But no major life switch.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm not leaving New Zealand.
27:47
And tech as well is that something that is like you know you've
27:50
been there you've
27:50
done that you've been adjacent or in there still adjacent
27:55
what's your relationship
27:56
with tech technology like this from a professional perspective
27:59
from a professional
28:00
perspective not really into it and so far out of it at this
28:03
point i'd be too far
28:04
behind so i'm not into ai or anything like that i'd like tech
28:08
as a tool to improve
28:10
something that maybe already exists and that would be about it
28:13
there's a i have a
28:13
SPEAKER_01: couple of tech ideas but
28:15
They're pretty big and I don't know if I'm going to have the
28:17
bandwidth to pursue
28:18
them So the creative ideas and the other things that are coming
28:21
up Tech will always
28:23
have a role in anything you do in today's world Whether you're
28:25
launching a book or
28:26
horoscopes or whatever There's going to be a little bit of tech
28:28
always But leaning
28:30
into tech as a medium of creativity is tough from a cash point
28:35
of view What have
28:36
SPEAKER_00: you given your boys from Georgia?
28:39
SPEAKER_01: What from my culture have I given to them?
28:42
SPEAKER_01: I've filtered out about 98% of them
28:46
SPEAKER_01: There's a handful of things for sure.
28:49
Definitely the hunting and the fishing and kind of taking that
28:51
to the next level.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: And were they naturals at that?
28:54
SPEAKER_01: Was that a hard sell to start with?
28:56
SPEAKER_01: My oldest, he was a
28:58
Unusually into it he picked up a fly rod he was he had kind of
29:02
perfected spin
29:02
fishing by the time he was five and then picked up the fly rod
29:05
and ditch the spin
29:06
rod and I mean he was basically guiding by the time he was 10
29:10
so he's he's he's
29:11
world-class he's something else and then yeah just pushing them
29:15
outside and then my
29:15
youngest you know skiing everything everybody does here skiing
29:18
biking just saying
29:20
physical and now they do stuff that's so crazy I can't watch
29:23
it's just nerve
29:23
wracking to watch them surfing you know my youngest sat there
29:26
surfing in a wave so
29:27
big that it cracks his board and he's laughing about it and I'm
29:30
just like I can't
29:31
watch definitely some work stuff you know make them you know
29:34
they're chopping wood
29:35
so yeah some manners around the dinner table those kind of
29:39
things and definitely
29:40
some food there's a little bit of southern food that is good PR
29:43
for my people so
29:45
you break out some brisket and all of a sudden everyone loves
29:47
America you know
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Ribs, is that right?
29:50
Yeah,
29:50
ribs,
29:51
brisket,
29:51
and everybody's like,
29:52
oh,
29:53
tell me more about this place you come from.
29:54
So how do you do or deal with the cultural side of things
29:58
within your family?
29:59
SPEAKER_00: How do you see yourselves?
30:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got Canada, you've got America, you've got New Zealand.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: Were both kids born here or were they born somewhere else?
30:06
SPEAKER_01: They were both born in Canada.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: So my wife's got a Canadian accent, I've got my accent.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: This isn't my original accent.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: This is a generic American accent.
30:15
This Is Not Rural Georgia Alabama Accents Both Have You
30:19
Consciously No Adaptive
30:21
Just Happened It's Still Very Very American Yeah But I've Spent
30:24
Half My Life Out Of
30:25
The States Too And Then My Kids Have More Of A Kiwi Accent So
30:29
We Kind Of Have Three
30:29
Or Four Accents In Our Family Four And Everybody Makes Fun Of
30:33
My Accent And They're
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Really Good At It My Wife And Kids Can Mimic Me
30:38
and I've got a lot of slang and weird sayings and weird stories
30:41
and so yeah they
30:42
make fun of me a lot and it's good so I can definitely laugh at
30:45
it because they're
30:45
SPEAKER_01: hilarious.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: How long were you here before 1964 came along?
30:49
SPEAKER_00: Were you before that decision and that process?
30:52
SPEAKER_00: What did that look like?
30:53
SPEAKER_00: So coming to New Zealand first of all?
30:56
We've been going seven years now so yeah I would have been here
31:00
five or six years I
31:01
SPEAKER_01: guess when that started so I came down here started a little tech company
31:05
SPEAKER_01: Sold that to Allied Press,
31:06
SPEAKER_01: started working for them,
31:07
SPEAKER_01: running that,
31:08
SPEAKER_01: helping with some newspaper stuff.
31:10
Sold that,
31:11
helped some newspapers in Canada,
31:12
and then I started it after that.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: And in a weird kind of way, it came about because of technology.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: So in Canada,
31:20
SPEAKER_01: I ran a website like Craigslist or Gumtree,
31:23
SPEAKER_01: which New Zealand has never had a free classified website.
31:26
which most people don't really trade me as an auction website
31:30
people so QE's pay
31:33
more I think to buy and sell a car than anywhere in the world
31:36
and so now they have
31:37
Facebook which is their default pre-classified system which is
31:40
horrible and full of
31:41
SPEAKER_01: scams and so yes I started that for Canada
31:45
SPEAKER_01: And when I first got going,
31:46
SPEAKER_01: you know,
31:47
SPEAKER_01: I noticed our ads are worth a lot of money,
31:49
SPEAKER_01: not to be overly boring,
31:50
SPEAKER_01: but it was like 65 bucks for every thousand impressions.
31:53
And so as the internet got more and more flooded,
31:56
you know,
31:56
it started going,
31:57
you know,
31:58
61,
31:58
62.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: And then over the years, it just kept going down, which makes sense.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: There's only so much money going into marketing.
32:03
And then as the phones came on,
32:04
the ad impressions just went through the roof.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: And the rate has to go down to the inverse amount.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: And so now it's like, you're lucky to get 10 cents per thousand.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: And so
32:15
My job is to figure out what's next and is figuring out
32:17
engagement and I had tested
32:19
a lot of print products along with tech and I quit believing in
32:22
my opinion a long
32:23
time ago so we would test these things one day and they would
32:27
work just be off the
32:28
charts and then I test them the next year and it'd be different
32:31
and I found that
32:31
fascinating and then I would test them two years after that and
32:34
they would work
32:35
different again and so the thing I learned is it was always
32:37
changing and so the
32:39
magazine came about because of I noticed that the engagement
32:42
online mathematically
32:43
SPEAKER_01: was going down
32:45
The Total Engagement Was Going Up But The Rate At Which We Were
32:48
Engaging Was
32:49
Plummeting And So Then I Was Like Whoa And There's Other People
32:53
Who've Done This If
32:54
I Could Slow Everyone Down Enough And You Compare It
32:57
Mathematically Again This Is
32:59
Boring I Ruined The Romance Of Art But My Point Is It Necessary
33:04
You Need Someone To
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Do Math Around Art Otherwise You Don't Get To Do The Art
33:08
SPEAKER_01: And so when I saw the engagement so low online,
33:12
and I did crunch the math on YouTube and the engagement of an
33:15
ad and what it was
33:16
SPEAKER_01: worth,
33:17
I knew that if I could slow people down in a magazine and have
33:21
some guardrails in
33:22
SPEAKER_01: place,
33:22
that the engagement would be at a point where it was actually
33:24
more valuable for
33:25
SPEAKER_01: advertisers.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: And that proved to be very, very true.
33:30
But I had to get the right editor That's the key And I looked
33:34
for a while And I
33:34
couldn't find anybody And then I read a book called I can't
33:39
believe I'm going to
33:39
mess it up again It's like To Bike and Beyond It's Laura
33:42
Williamson's book About
33:43
the history of bikes in New Zealand And as soon as I finished
33:46
it I don't know how I
33:47
SPEAKER_01: knew But I was like
33:48
SPEAKER_01: I kind of knew Laura socially, but not really.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, she's the editor.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to do this is what I told my wife.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: And then I took Laura out to lunch and was like,
33:56
SPEAKER_01: hey,
33:57
SPEAKER_01: we meet me at whatever the pizza place at Francesca's.
33:59
And we took her out to lunch and I told her this grand idea I
34:02
had for a magazine
34:03
SPEAKER_01: and engagement and all this.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: And in true Laura fashion in our relationship,
34:08
SPEAKER_01: she basically told me a much,
34:10
SPEAKER_01: much better idea than my idea.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: Way better.
34:13
that she'd had in her head or that came out of that
34:16
conversation that well this is
34:17
interesting what about doing that or kind of when it comes to
34:20
that type of thing
34:21
Laura is so far ahead of me and everyone that people don't even
34:25
understand how far
34:26
ahead she is so whether she already knew it or she was
34:29
expanding on my rough idea
34:31
either way it was immediately clear it was on point and way
34:35
ahead and at the end of
34:37
the meeting I literally said I'd like to hire you to do exactly
34:40
what you just said
34:41
SPEAKER_01: forget everything I said
34:43
I want to hire you for what you just said and that's it and so
34:46
yeah and so then we
34:47
were once I had her I knew I had production covered because I
34:50
had a brilliant
34:51
production person in Canada and so I offered her and yeah
34:56
Leslie who also does the
34:57
SPEAKER_01: horoscopes with me
34:59
And how much of a temptation was that then for you then to
35:02
write more for that?
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Was that part of the initial plan?
35:05
SPEAKER_00: What role did your sort of productive,
35:08
SPEAKER_00: not the production,
35:09
SPEAKER_00: but actually productive or generative,
35:11
SPEAKER_00: creative side of things?
35:13
SPEAKER_00: How much of that was a consideration for you?
35:15
Definitely as a huge part of it is I wanted an avenue to write,
35:18
but I also know my lane.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, if you look at our contributors, you got to know your lane.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know how many poet laureates have worked for us.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: I know
35:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm not that level.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: I know my life.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: I stick to juvenile humor and old man rants, as one guy called them.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: And so I still am able to do that.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: And Laura tells me when.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, hey, we've got two dark stories.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: I need something silly about chickens.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm your man.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: But I definitely have written a few rants.
35:44
A guy stopped me on the street and he said,
35:46
are you the guy that does the old man rants?
35:49
SPEAKER_01: And I said, do you like them?
35:51
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, yeah, they're my favorite part of it.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, I do write the old man rants.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
35:55
SPEAKER_01: and they're just,
35:55
SPEAKER_01: they're comedy,
35:56
SPEAKER_01: but,
35:56
SPEAKER_01: you know,
35:56
SPEAKER_01: with a little bit of,
35:57
SPEAKER_01: you know,
35:57
SPEAKER_01: I am saying something at the same time.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: My first one,
36:00
SPEAKER_01: kind of an anti-influencer,
36:03
that was probably my most read thing that I ever did was in the
36:05
first issue.
36:07
What's the i mean how far are you from the dream 1964 so you
36:12
say okay this is the
36:13
reality coming out 26th issue coming out soon winter for you
36:18
personally how where
36:19
are you at in terms of your ambition and the dream for it and
36:22
where it's at now so
36:24
as i mentioned that the business part of it is what i
36:26
specialize in and so i had
36:28
SPEAKER_01: this idea of about engagement and the one thing i know is engagement wins
36:31
and it will always change so engagement wise we got it we got
36:35
engagement nailed so
36:36
we're able to sell ads at a level that I had never seen on any
36:39
medium anywhere they
36:41
are sold out at full rate all the time now is that a signal you
36:45
should put your
36:45
price or your rate card up yeah see I knew you were there so we
36:49
could go up a
36:50
little bit but then that's going to take more time for me to
36:53
sell more and where it
36:55
SPEAKER_01: gets interesting is I limit the ads
36:57
SPEAKER_01: People might not think I do because it looks different.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: The ads have always,
37:00
SPEAKER_01: if you measure any of them,
37:01
SPEAKER_01: they are somewhere between 20 and 23 percent max.
37:05
The last summer issue we actually added eight pages to the
37:07
magazine to knock it
37:08
SPEAKER_01: down to 21 percent because it jumped to 23 and a half.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: That's how
37:14
Laura and I have lines in the sand that we do not cross and
37:16
that's one of them it's
37:18
23% how did you figure that out is that an industry standard or
37:20
is that like an
37:21
industry standard halved or how did you get there or just a
37:25
vibe Nathan and Laura
37:26
SPEAKER_01: calculation we took magazines all the best ones we could find
37:30
SPEAKER_01: and we said, what's the number that you wouldn't subscribe to?
37:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, because we have to have enough content for you to subscribe.
37:38
SPEAKER_01: But we decided it was 23.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: 20 to me is perfect.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: The perfect magazine is 10 double page ads,
37:45
SPEAKER_01: because I can remove them completely from the content.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: That's where I would like to be.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: COVID kind of derailed that plan.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: We limit it.
37:51
So that means that we let we've there is a glass ceiling on
37:54
that revenue that we can't shake.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: So then
37:57
The Vision is then Subscriptions which is a hundred percent
38:00
scalable hundred
38:01
percent goes to the bottom line and that has been much more of
38:03
a challenge so when
38:04
you launch a business some things are going to work better than
38:06
you think and that
38:06
was ads something's going to work less and that's been the
38:09
subscriptions is it
38:11
what's that relationship between those two generally across the
38:14
industry is the
38:15
industry moving away from advertising towards more of a
38:19
subscription the sort of
38:20
high-end highbrow kind of publication end I mean most people in
38:24
our like if you
38:24
SPEAKER_01: look at wilderness magazines
38:26
I'm talking about outdoor magazines not wilderness the actual
38:28
not that one
38:29
specifically outdoor magazines I should say a lot of them are
38:32
just like sell as
38:33
many ads as you possibly can and then paid content AI content
38:37
so you can it's
38:38
easier for me to cut expenses it's easy for me to increase
38:40
revenue but that starts
38:42
a downward spiral and so that was what my job used to be was
38:46
kind of how do you
38:46
turn around a magazine once the spiral step is starting down so
38:50
if I let's say I
38:51
run AI content in this winter issue well my readership is going
38:54
to go down the ads
38:54
SPEAKER_01: are going to be worth a little bit less
38:56
ads worth a little bit less I got less money now I can hire
38:58
less artists in the
38:58
next one and so that's why we got pretty rigid not extremely
39:02
rigid ideals about
39:03
what we do paid content is an easy way to make money but it's
39:07
boring as hell so we
39:08
don't run it that's so the difference between us we limit the
39:11
ads no patent we have
39:13
never had one paid word in the magazine and we separate so the
39:17
ads are on one side
39:18
and the content is all paid for which makes a difference
39:21
because then you're
39:22
SPEAKER_01: getting everybody's best work
39:24
What's the process like then in terms of dealing with New
39:28
Zealand creatives?
39:29
What do New Zealand creatives do well and what do New Zealand
39:31
creatives do less
39:32
well in terms of your dealings with them around submissions to
39:35
the magazine?
39:37
SPEAKER_01: That would be a better question for Laura.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: I know that I'm impressed.
39:41
We've been an avenue for voices who maybe didn't have somewhere
39:45
else for their work to go.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: And so that's allowed us the level of bigger than we are feels.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: And I lean into it.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: We are a small publication, relatively new.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: And if you look at our list of who has written for us,
39:57
SPEAKER_01: who has taken photos for us,
40:00
SPEAKER_01: it's intimidating.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: And so the people who submitted work and we work with is astonishing.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: It's pretty crazy.
40:07
And the fact that we're able to provide that for people for
40:10
next to nothing.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, it's pretty incredible.
40:13
And has that positioning changed all over the years in terms of
40:15
being an outdoors?
40:18
SPEAKER_01: We stuck to what we said, what we wrote the first time.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: We're somewhere between an arts magazine and an outdoor magazine.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: That's why we're mountain culture, not mountains.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: So mountain culture is more about the human side of it.
40:30
I mean,
40:31
you can only tell so many stories about a guy climbing a
40:33
mountain.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't read fishing magazines that often.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: For that I've heard that story before.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:38
And so if I say mountain culture,
40:40
New Zealand,
40:41
and I give that to Laura,
40:42
and that's her brand.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: And we actually work beyond mountains,
40:45
we actually work off of an old definition that we found in the
40:48
dictionary.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: Wastebusters.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: And it was about mountains were like, the definition was remote place.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: Not just a mountain.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: So it can be a remote place.
40:58
So as long as it's a remote place and remote places are where
41:01
the characters are.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: And characters are that's content.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: Characters are interesting.
41:07
and so you're able to get away like there's not that many like
41:11
famous we have some
41:12
famous people in our magazine but not the people who say
41:14
they're famous we don't
41:15
have the Instagram fisherman or the Instagram surfer you know
41:18
we have someone else
41:20
tell me about the coveralls in the wagon that's an unusual role
41:26
for a publisher to
41:27
be out there actually physically distributing the products
41:32
through the streets
41:33
SPEAKER_00: walking through the streets of Wanaka with your 90
41:35
SPEAKER_00: 1964 forest green coveralls on with the,
41:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what the,
41:40
SPEAKER_00: in German you'd call it a billerwagen.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: It's like a cart with the magazines on it.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: That's a touch point.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: It's a really interesting touch point.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: I think most publishers would probably overlook that touch point as a,
41:51
SPEAKER_00: as a,
41:52
SPEAKER_00: so tell me about this for you.
41:54
So the coveralls came about because of embroidery me,
41:56
me who sell all our hats and everything.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: And we came in there one day and she said, you and your team need
42:03
Coverall or no what did she call him coverall she called him
42:05
something else
42:06
jumpsuits because you need jumpsuits I was like well now we do
42:09
so now we all have
42:10
jumpsuits and then the wagon thing started just because we
42:14
needed to deliver to all
42:15
of our spots and then I kind of played with you know getting
42:18
somebody my kids to
42:19
SPEAKER_01: help me or hiring somebody else to do that part
42:21
and then I just realized that it's the most fun part of my job
42:25
I'm not going to do
42:26
manage our database and then let somebody else deliver the
42:29
magazines and get free
42:30
coffees and muffins and I get taken care of when I'm hiking
42:33
around and I see
42:34
everybody we get subscriptions that way I've got advertisers
42:36
that way it's the most
42:38
SPEAKER_01: fun so I've been doing that actually in Queenstown Wanaka,
42:41
SPEAKER_01: Clyde,
42:41
SPEAKER_01: Cromwell
42:43
SPEAKER_01: Just been doing that in Dunedin.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: Omer has been taking really good care of us.
42:47
SPEAKER_01: Been in Christchurch and we just did Wellington as well.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: So we're kind of spreading out a bit.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: And to hand delivery is tons of fun.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: Good way to get some exercise too.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm completely new.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: It's something I've never seen before,
42:57
but it was super innovative in terms of making the most of that
43:01
touchpoint.
43:03
So what role does poker play for you in terms of is this a
43:06
counterbalance?
43:07
SPEAKER_00: Do you take the lessons from poker into life?
43:11
SPEAKER_00: Where are you at with that?
43:12
So poker,
43:13
back to that 98% of my culture,
43:16
that's one of the things I did keep.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: I do teach my boys that as well.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: It's a fun way to use your brain.
43:22
and hang out with interesting people I'm not into your wine and
43:25
cheese party but
43:27
shout out to the Wanaka Poker Club by the way they're the most
43:30
eccentric diverse
43:32
SPEAKER_01: group in this town by a long ways and yeah it's a ton of fun
43:38
Do you have a I'm a bluffer or I'm balls out going hard out and
43:42
just what's your style?
43:44
With this group they would say I'm super tight in a knit is
43:47
what they would say but
43:48
that's kind of an acquired thing for this game so every game is
43:51
different you got
43:51
to adjust to fit into the game but these guys are lunatics in a
43:55
good way so they're
43:57
a ton of fun they're the most entertaining guys I hang out with
44:01
in this town for
44:03
SPEAKER_01: sure I would tell you their stories but I can't
44:06
And so that's that's then it's multiple kind of roles that
44:09
that's fulfilling for
44:10
you in terms of as a yeah it's so it's social it's a work in
44:14
your brain as a thrill
44:15
that being said I'm not I'm a non gambler I don't bet on horses
44:19
sports anything
44:20
SPEAKER_01: else I don't I don't buy lotto tickets
44:22
And it's the same with poker is that but I'm assuming that
44:24
there's a what is it
44:25
called like an inn or whatever you've got a you know poker can
44:29
kind of you can
44:29
there be people who play poker that gamble and people who don't
44:32
like it's kind of
44:32
you know poker is a game of skill what I think I forget one of
44:36
the old guy said
44:36
it's a it's a game of skill masquerading as a game of luck
44:39
that's an interesting
44:40
one and playing with this group there everybody who plays here
44:43
is really good and
44:44
so you got to get keep getting better and better and better if
44:46
you don't want to
44:47
SPEAKER_01: lose your shirt gotcha
44:50
SPEAKER_00: What are you still in the middle of unmaking?
44:52
SPEAKER_00: What's still happening?
44:54
SPEAKER_01: What am I, what am I making personally?
44:56
SPEAKER_00: Unmaking.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: So you've made multiple all in bits in many ways,
45:01
SPEAKER_00: you know,
45:01
SPEAKER_00: in terms of your life,
45:02
SPEAKER_00: or you've taken everything off the table and basically say,
45:04
SPEAKER_00: okay,
45:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm cashing,
45:05
SPEAKER_00: cashing in my chips.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: So those probably came through a process.
45:11
SPEAKER_00: So what's, what's happening now in terms of that?
45:13
SPEAKER_00: Or is this the, okay, now just cruise control.
45:15
SPEAKER_00: Now it's great.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: Got it sorted.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: Gone through all that.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: Where are you at?
45:18
SPEAKER_01: No, I don't really do cruise control.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: There's always something next.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: I just finished a screenplay.
45:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm hoping to sell this winter.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: So I got a couple of leads on that looking for an agent.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: So if there are any agents out there, please give me a call.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: I realize that the way I think of jokes is more screenplay format.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, hoping to sell that.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: Working on another little book.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: So I got a couple of things in the go, you know.
45:38
And does that feel like a like a wave then that's coming now in
45:42
terms of writing
45:43
more and that you have more perhaps more space or bandwidth for
45:47
that side of
45:48
SPEAKER_01: things?
45:49
Well,
45:49
I've got more bandwidth for that right now because my kids are
45:51
getting older.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: That's the main change.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: And so with them not needing me as much,
45:56
I have more time and I got to make sure that I fill that time
45:58
with something
45:59
SPEAKER_01: productive.
46:00
And so yeah,
46:00
going into this and winter is a productive season for me
46:02
anyway.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: So yeah,
46:04
I'll be taking on several different writing projects and need
46:07
to learn to take
46:07
SPEAKER_01: photos,
46:09
SPEAKER_01: which is a bit of an odd thing to take horrible photos as a publisher.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: But it's just the truth.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: I just bought us our 1964 first camera this last weekend.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: So Laura and I are out now with an actual camera.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we're growing up as a company.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: What question haven't I asked you?
46:26
What did you perhaps think about sharing or talking about today
46:30
that we haven't yet?
46:30
SPEAKER_01: I can't think anything off the top of my head.
46:33
SPEAKER_00: Is this the final, Nathan?
46:34
SPEAKER_00: Is this the finished version of yourself?
46:38
SPEAKER_00: I know it's not great to talk about yourself in the third person.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: It's probably not a habit which I should be encouraging.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: But I mean,
46:43
how do you feel in terms of where you're at and what's coming
46:45
and your creative
46:46
SPEAKER_00: processes and work?
46:48
SPEAKER_01: I really like where I am right now in terms of,
46:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
46:51
SPEAKER_01: to me,
46:51
SPEAKER_01: it's just family,
46:52
SPEAKER_01: friends and enjoyable work and enough money to feed everybody.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: That's all I need.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: But I think you've got to always be looking...
47:00
Ahead to make sure you can continue that and make sure you keep
47:04
you change at the
47:05
right rate not too fast i don't need any crazy major changes in
47:09
my life but yeah i
47:10
think it'd be good to pursue a few things to keep keep yourself
47:14
interested keep
47:14
yourself interesting to others yeah i'm not going to be sitting
47:18
around retired guy
47:20
SPEAKER_01: for a lot of reasons mainly because i don't have enough money to do that
47:23
I think we're all on that boat it's basically it's the concept
47:26
of retirement has
47:27
changed I'm guessing yeah yeah we can we can repackage it to
47:30
make it sound like
47:30
we're really cool that's why I'm not retiring is because I'm I
47:33
want to pursue other
47:34
SPEAKER_01: things it's not because I just can't afford it
47:36
Well I think it's a very interesting argument to be made as an
47:39
alternative to
47:41
selling a large block of your life in return for being able to
47:45
have nice weekends
47:46
and holidays and then retiring at the end of it all rather than
47:50
actually finding
47:51
something you enjoy and that fulfills you and you can keep on
47:53
doing The last 15
47:55
years or so in New Zealand I've loved every second of it I mean
47:58
even while I'm
47:59
working while I'm not working but I'm always I've got my kids
48:02
around me we've got
48:03
SPEAKER_01: great friends got
48:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm surrounded by like super nice kind people.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's always fun.
48:09
We don't do luxury weekends to wherever but but we do crazy
48:13
adventures I think that
48:14
SPEAKER_01: most people would die for.
48:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
48:16
we catch fish and do stuff that people think only happens in
48:20
movies and that's a
48:20
SPEAKER_01: Tuesday for us.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, no complaints.
48:25
Is it something that's more of a for you in terms of attracting
48:30
or generating more
48:31
content around that or is that something you say no I do this
48:34
for me and to
48:35
experience this rather than to actually use this as fodder for
48:40
my work basically
48:42
yeah when I'm doing that I'm doing that for me and for my
48:45
people and I'm there just
48:47
doing that I don't have no notepad we don't take any pictures I
48:50
don't ever take
48:50
SPEAKER_01: pictures in fact I hate them
48:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, why is everybody taking pictures?
48:55
SPEAKER_01: It drives me crazy.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: I hate fish photos, fish videos.
48:59
SPEAKER_01: If you got a drone, I'm going to throw a stick at it.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: You're either living your life or you're documenting.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: You can't do both.
49:07
SPEAKER_01: It's one or the other.
49:08
This documenting of my phones and videos have become so norm in
49:14
our society that
49:15
SPEAKER_01: we're skipping over that there's this fourth wall.
49:18
to this and I wrote about this in my first old man rant in the
49:21
first issue and it
49:22
was about a specific dude who actually was right behind us
49:24
where we're talking
49:25
right now sitting around the campfire this dude looked good man
49:30
he had a nice man
49:30
bun shirts undone campfire going he was ripped gorgeous man and
49:38
taking gorgeous
49:38
photos of himself and the photo this looks like a gorgeous at
49:43
one man at peace in
49:44
SPEAKER_01: the outdoors we're skipping over the fact
49:48
This is a narcissistic nut job Taking pictures of himself In a
49:50
damn campground by
49:51
himself This is not boyfriend material This is not husband
49:55
material This is a dude
49:57
Taking pictures of himself Now if he was there by himself
50:00
Without a camera And
50:01
somebody took a picture of him On the way by That's one thing
50:03
But he had to take
50:04
the time To set up a tripod To shine a light on himself And I
50:10
don't know When you
50:10
need that much attention I'm a weary Like it's a Put the damn
50:14
camera down man Like
50:15
SPEAKER_01: it's weird
50:16
Well,
50:16
it's probably one of the great things to have left behind from
50:18
America,
50:18
right?
50:18
I think that's the number one career choice of young American
50:21
children now is to
50:22
SPEAKER_00: become an influencer,
50:23
SPEAKER_00: right?
50:23
SPEAKER_01: There's a crazy,
50:25
SPEAKER_01: scary stat if you're a parent,
50:27
SPEAKER_01: young girls,
50:28
SPEAKER_01: what percentage of them are on OnlyFans?
50:30
SPEAKER_01: Something like 10% of the total of American women?
50:34
SPEAKER_01: It's something.
50:36
SPEAKER_01: We'll have to Google it.
50:37
SPEAKER_01: The number's pretty crazy, though.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, attention's not a good thing.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: And if you need attention,
50:43
SPEAKER_01: That's not healthy.
50:44
SPEAKER_01: Well,
50:44
SPEAKER_01: like a certain amount of attention,
50:45
SPEAKER_01: but when your life becomes attention and people looking at you,
50:50
SPEAKER_01: it's not,
50:51
SPEAKER_01: they're not real.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we need authenticity, we need real interactions.
50:55
And it's weird how that line can get blurred between what's
51:00
online and what's in reality.
51:02
SPEAKER_01: And so you'll hear people having conversations about viral topics,
51:06
SPEAKER_01: you know,
51:06
SPEAKER_01: whether it's trans sports or whatever,
51:08
SPEAKER_01: these things,
51:09
SPEAKER_01: again,
51:09
SPEAKER_01: goes back to this anger
51:11
And you start talking to people and you're like,
51:13
did that actually happen?
51:14
SPEAKER_01: Have you seen that in your life?
51:16
SPEAKER_01: And I just judged a humor contest down in the university newspapers.
51:23
SPEAKER_01: And someone had written an entire anger piece about people saying,
51:29
SPEAKER_01: if you're wearing a concert shirt,
51:30
SPEAKER_01: coming up to a woman and saying,
51:32
SPEAKER_01: name one of their songs.
51:34
And it's a horrible,
51:35
insulting thing that a man or a boy could say to a girl.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: And it is.
51:39
SPEAKER_01: But my question was, did it happen?
51:42
Did you physically in real life happen and and i've been caught
51:46
out doing it before
51:47
too where i said oh this happened this and i'm like did it
51:50
happen in 3d in real
51:52
life because the internet does it runs on anger anger is like
51:56
the diesel that goes
51:58
in that machine if you remove anger it just sputters to a stop
52:02
it is it needs the
52:03
SPEAKER_01: anger
52:04
SPEAKER_00: And basically also fueled by anonymity.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: I think those are the dangerous combination, right?
52:10
SPEAKER_00: Like anonymity and anger.
52:12
SPEAKER_01: Though in capitalism.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was part of it.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the newspapers like, okay, oh, I want to read something good.
52:20
SPEAKER_01: No, you don't.
52:21
SPEAKER_01: I can show you the numbers.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: Anger sells.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: But let's put the angry story at the top.
52:25
SPEAKER_01: I make more money.
52:26
SPEAKER_01: If I put the feel good story at the top, I make less money.
52:29
SPEAKER_01: If I let you choose which one goes to the top, guess which one you pick?
52:32
SPEAKER_01: The anger one.
52:36
SPEAKER_01: That's why I like old school mediums, like a magazine, like a newspaper.
52:41
SPEAKER_01: Like the ODT,
52:41
SPEAKER_01: love them or hate them,
52:42
their editor down there does a great job of putting the stories
52:46
in an order that is
52:48
SPEAKER_01: set for our society.
52:50
SPEAKER_01: Now if you put it online,
52:52
SPEAKER_01: people start clicking on whatever interests them and that floats,
52:54
SPEAKER_01: it literally floats to the top on a lot of these websites.
52:58
If the dirt floats to the top,
53:00
we're only we're just going to drown in dirt,
53:02
you know.
53:02
So that's why I like old school mediums where we can set them
53:05
in stone and they can't move.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: Is there any self policing or self regulation from the industry?
53:11
And how does the New Zealand industry compare to the North
53:14
American industry in
53:15
SPEAKER_00: terms of collaboration with your competitors or other industry players?
53:19
In the magazine world I have great people I work with Neil from
53:22
Spoke Magazine The
53:24
NZ Geo Crew Shepherd Assay It's a real Everybody helps
53:27
everybody They're all
53:28
amazing We all have the same struggles though I mean When you
53:31
get in these Kind of
53:32
declining industries If you will There's a lot of
53:34
infrastructure You gotta look out
53:35
for And then the retail I just had to turn off my retail Of my
53:39
magazines Which I
53:40
hated to do Because it got us distribution All over the country
53:43
But they have some
53:44
very Archaic accounting practices And I spotted it immediately
53:48
And I'm like I'm out
53:50
You know they're distributing all of my magazines around the
53:52
country selling a lot
53:53
of them and then somehow I end up with a negative $200 bill at
53:56
the end of it I'm
53:56
like well why I'll just do it with my wagon and make way more
53:59
money and get some
54:01
free muffins in the deal so yeah so you gotta look out for some
54:03
of the old tech and
54:05
we've managed to build around most of it so in the newspaper
54:08
world I mean even more
54:10
so than the magazines a lot of the most of the challenges all
54:14
the challenges it
54:14
comes back to money unfortunately everybody talks oh everybody
54:17
wants to know what
54:18
SPEAKER_01: the bias of this or that I'm like
54:20
We're so far beyond that so my real expertise is in newspapers
54:26
which is kind of
54:27
funny cash flow fixes a lot of problems and I think I hate to
54:32
say that but it's
54:33
true when it comes the more if you have enough cash coming in
54:36
then you have a
54:37
longer runway to do a creative project and so let's say we're
54:42
all creative when
54:42
we're young and then creativity kind of gets beaten out of us
54:45
but there's a kind of
54:46
SPEAKER_01: a pragmatic reason for that we can't keep the lights on you know
54:50
Coloring and coloring books But if we could then we're going to
54:53
end up with
54:54
somebody who can color a coloring book the best in the world
54:56
and so I always see
54:58
that as my job is building that framework where that works and
55:01
that's a it's
55:03
undervalued that work but it's more necessary than people
55:06
realize like you want to
55:08
fix a newspaper today just subscribe to it and you'll have a
55:11
better newspaper
55:12
that's it and that's that is the solution to everything you
55:16
know the oh the
55:16
newspapers articles aren't any good anymore yes because they're
55:19
not journalists
55:20
Hiring People Off The Street and the number of journalists is
55:23
down like 85% or
55:24
something and so oh there's typos yeah it's because there's no
55:29
proofreader anymore
55:30
like yeah like a little bit of cash can fix a lot of things and
55:34
that's kind of
55:35
where we are with 1964 like we run really tight really
55:38
efficient everyone's paid
55:41
i'm paid peanuts i need to be paid a little bit more to make it
55:44
sustainable not
55:45
SPEAKER_01: because i want to buy a yacht or anything i need
55:48
A New Muffin I Don't Need Much and so yeah where we are it's
55:52
amazing what like a
55:53
thousand people would do it always blows my mind how high
55:57
quality 1964 is because I
56:00
know what I'm able to pay everybody but I read it I'm like wow
56:03
this I'm I am I
56:05
always fantasize about what Laura could do if I turned her
56:08
loose a little bit
56:09
SPEAKER_01: because Laura works two other jobs
56:11
So do I and so if I could just give Laura the space a thousand
56:17
subscriptions would
56:17
do that so if Laura had the space to take the second job off
56:21
and just it's amazing
56:22
that she's able to do this with that amount of time in that
56:24
budget and I'm like
56:26
SPEAKER_01: whoa what if she were full-time
56:27
And so that's the lever that is the big one that you need to
56:31
pull compared to all
56:32
the others that you could potentially pull to move forward 100%
56:37
and so right now
56:38
we're sputtering around 800 subscriptions we've got a little
56:41
bit of growth coming
56:41
from this project we're doing with distributing around New
56:44
Zealand that number
56:45
jumps to 1500 is really interesting the magic number where we
56:49
are operating at full
56:51
SPEAKER_01: would be around 2500 subscriptions which isn't that many
56:54
So at $2,500 I can pay the artist a bit more We got a bit of a
56:57
travel budget It
56:59
frees Laura up It frees Leslie up Our production manager So
57:02
yeah that's the number
57:03
That's the goal That's the thing It's a small one It's like
57:06
yeah We need to go to
57:07
$2,500 But then at the same time That's proven to be a big
57:09
hurdle To get to that
57:10
number It's anywhere We do send subscriptions Around the world
57:15
That is a bit
57:16
difficult With New Zealand Post Although we've gotten a bit
57:18
better So we do focus
57:19
SPEAKER_01: on New Zealand Most of our We have a lot of subscribers In Wanaka
57:23
Just because people just refuse to pay for them and a lot in
57:26
Dunedin some support
57:28
Christchurch Auckland Wellington so those are kind of our major
57:31
subscription hubs
57:32
SPEAKER_01: and we're just trying to expand out from that