Latest / JUSTRIDE Podcast / “I Thought I’d Broken My Back…” Robbie Wallace Finishing the Dakar Rally | JUSTRIDE Podcast Ep.3

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“I Thought I’d Broken My Back…” Robbie Wallace Finishing the Dakar Rally | JUSTRIDE Podcast Ep.3 · JUSTRIDE Podcast

• Admin: So good evening, everybody, and welcome to the Just Ride podcast. We are dead excited tonight to have our first guest, local guy Robbie Wallace, who's the 2026 Dakar finisher. He's brought his medal along tonight as well. So we're going to be grilling him all about the Dakar. I think we're going to be ready for the Dakar probably in the next 10 years or so. Once we've learned everything tonight. yes, we're dead happy to have him on the show tonight. Andy, do you want to introduce for the viewers that don't know anything about Dakar, Robbie, do you want to kind of? ⁓ well, first of all, I'm absolutely delighted you're here, Robbie. And I know that I met you a couple of years ago and you told me about your first experience of going to the Dakar as well, which was absolutely Fabulous and I've been excited all day long that you've been coming. You do not know how excited it has been. really been excited. So yeah, so the Dakar, Robbie finished the 2026 Dakar over 14 days. So 13 stages, 14 with the prologue over 5,000 miles. It's a long way. It's a long way. It's a long way. And Robbie was the first British person over the actual finish line on And is that on the bikes and the cars? I don't know with the cars. no, we don't drive somewhere. No, in the bikes, in the base, but 115 bikes were going when including the GP guys, 115 started. ⁓ and I think there was maybe 80 or 80 finished perhaps. I think were you 43rd, were you 43rd overall? Yes. And 32nd was it 32nd in rally two class in rally two class. Wow. I nearly got it right there. I nearly got it right there. ⁓ but no, we're absolutely delighted to have you here. ⁓ I don't think any of us proclaim to be Dakar specialists, but we're all familiar with Dakar. fact, just for the benefit of some of our viewers who may be a little bit like me, what is the Dakar? Tell us what it's all about. Well, the Dakar Rally is infamously sort of known for being the hardest off-road event on earth. It started 48 years ago, I believe. So this year was the 48th edition. And originally it went from Paris to the city of Dakar in Senegal. And over the years, of early 2000s, was, the event changed. It did run through various other countries in Africa up until then, not always starting in Paris. And then it got to maybe 2007 and it moved on to South America where it ran there and all the way through to 2020. So it was still. The Dakar rally, still the brand, still had two weeks of racing, doing thousands of miles, extremely long days. And that carried on until 2020. And then it moved to Saudi Arabia, which is where it is now. So that's where I was at the start of this year. So yeah, it encompasses bikes, cars, trucks, used off-cord bikes, ⁓ everything, every, every form. of motorsport racing is there and it's famously one of hardest and also most dangerous events on earth. Definitely one of the most dangerous. And then you have to, over the two weeks, you're navigating yourself every day, following a road book that you have on your bike. So you have to navigate these thousands of kilometres going through various different checkpoints and you are I think it does that automatically move or you having to manually do something to do that. So you have a button on your bike which rolls around this pit. Well, it used to be paper road book, but it's digital now, but it's still in the form of a paper road book. We saw some of those at ABR this year or last year. Yes. Yeah. There was a number of people using road books. So yeah, but yeah, in a general general run through that is what the Dakar is. ⁓ And it's famously hard. famously hard to finish. And you know that from last year. Is it last year? you have a? Yeah. So last year I made my first attempt at Dakar, which, well, just, mean, just getting there in the first place was unbelievable just for anyone to try and get there. But last year I made my first attempt and it didn't go to plan. I had a bit of an off after five days, which ended up resulted in me coming off the bike. knocking myself out. don't actually remember any of it. Is that when you got hit on the side of that? Yeah. When you looked at your helmet, there was a whack and grip big. There was something that hit you on the side. I was going along this really rocky section and my front wheel just skipped out and I wasn't able to get my arms out quick enough and ended up landing on my head. So a helicopter was summoned. Wow. And I mean, The helicopters are there within like two minutes. Yeah. Because on the on the event. Well, just gone this year, I counted there was 14 helicopters just on the event. Right. So they were there. It was there fairly sharp. Got me lifted out and then went to. the hospital somewhere, I can't remember, some city that I can't pronounce. We definitely can't. Tom, look that up. And then, yeah, and then got going. I had a day off and then it was rest day and then I was allowed to rejoin. You're allowed to rejoin the rally once. Right. ⁓ So rejoined. And if I'd have had any more failures after that, I'd have been out completely. But I all by that time. because I missed a day I was already out the ranking. But they allow you to carry on that one time. So I managed to get to the finish. So I did actually get to the finish. I just didn't get the shiny medal. And is that just because you didn't complete that one stitch? Yeah. So to get the medal, have to complete every meter, every centimeter. Every centimeter. So it was, so then, yeah, going back this year. It was a bit of a challenge whether we would go back or, you know, because the fundraising involved and the money involved is obscene. Can I, what can I answer? Because I know that the first time you and I had met and we were chatting about you were going to do the Dakar and I thought. wow, I mean that is, I mean we all love motorbikes. But that is just, I mean that is just a different level. It's another level isn't it? You know, not a different level, it's probably another 10 levels up from where we are as motorcyclists. But there was... just to qualify to go to Dakar, had this long journey you had to go to as well, just to get enough points so you could qualify to get in there. So it wasn't a case of just like saying, yeah, I'm going to do the Dakar and paying your money, your entry money. You went all over the world to get these. Yeah. it was, I mean, just to be able to try and qualify, firstly, have to be half decent on a bike. And that all started back when I was... eight or nine got a bike, got a little pit bike thing. And then I showed, was really keen on that. So we got an upgrade to a KTM 85, which my mom wasn't too happy about. Cause that's when it started to get a bit serious. Like, ⁓ actually he's not just riding around the field. He's actually racing. yeah. And then just did local Enduros most weekends, did championships. Then went on to doing British Enduro championship all the way through. And then I got to a bit of a cornerstone. where I was like, I maybe I could keep pushing on doing British champion stuff. British Championship stuff, but I was like, well, but I don't think I'm ever going to be British champion doing it that way. what are my strengths and my strengths are one, I just happened to be good at or maybe an idiot going really fast, like down any fire roads or anything. was against other lads. I was always just the quickest lad and I would always probably break the latest as well. And so I was like, well, I enjoy the speed and I enjoy the danger. And then in, and second to that is I like to think I'm not too daft. So the navigation part, I like the challenge of that as well thrown in. when you put them two together, you end up with, uh, when you end up in the sport of rally. So we thought, well, now how do we do a rally? And it was a case of we bought a Husqvarna 500 four stroke and put this really rudimentary rally kit on it. we got, and then we were like, right, we need to enter a rally somewhere. Let's have a look at what we can do. So we did this little small, me and my dad did this little small two day rally in Portugal with a company called Rally Moto. And they're sort of the UK's number one, number one destination for anybody wanting to do any road book rallies or anything like that. Yeah, did this little one in Portugal and then we thought, ⁓ we'd best do something a bit bigger than that. And against all advice, we went and entered this big race in Morocco, Morocco Desert Challenge. Wow. And that was an eight day race. So I was really thrown in at the deep end there. Really thrown in the deep end and went on from there. Right. I mean, I'm skipping through these things. just, you could talk for hours about each one of these events and I did a whole. Hosts of rallies all over Europe following on from that all with the aim of looking towards Dakar But never had the funds for it So you always just try and build your profile going up through each rally racing Hungary Portugal didn't do Argentina as well didn't you? Yeah, and then And then once we realized right we can do Dakar now. I've got the speed I've got the backing I had more sponsors with me then we had to commit to a qualify your event for Dakar and to qualify you have to go to one of their World Championship events, which isn't Dakar. it's either Morocco does it. Rally to Morocco, Abu Dhabi Desert Challenge, and then the alternate one rally between South Africa and Argentina. And just by timings, we thought I will do Abu Dhabi. And then just by the way the timings fell, I'd missed the entry for that, because this was, I was deciding this in about January of just Dakar had just finished of 20. Showed three years ago, whatever. So then we were like, right. Well, we're going to have to do the next one, which was Argentina. So the so the credit card came out. How much does that cost even just to go and do Argentina? I think the Argentine one was about 15 grand. And that was to ship your bike and everything else. Yeah. All in with everything. But I own the and I own the bike as well. So that takes a lot of it off because some teams like you to. they'll prepare a bike for you and then you rent the bike off them. ⁓ So managed to do that one. when I was doing it, it was only a five day event and that was the qualifying on the first day I was, I went really well and I was going really well through the rally and I thought, ⁓ yeah, I've done enough now, but I didn't actually realize you had to finish the event to qualify. I thought, ⁓ just have a good showing, you know? So I was going to hell for that. And I think I ended up finishing. like 15th, maybe on that rally, which was brilliant because that was a world championship event. And then at the end of it, they were like, ⁓ well done. You'll have qualified for Dakar now. And I thought, well, I've not just qualified like on day two or something. They're not saying, ⁓ yeah, he's quick enough. And it's like, ⁓ no, no, you have to finish because the team I used was a Spanish team, X-TRADE Experience. ⁓ And I've used them. I use them for Dakar as well. yeah. And then we got back from Argentina and then we thought, we're qualified now. I you don't have the resource to do it, we thought, I'm sure there's been many people in this position before, and they've all, some people have stopped there, but we said, let's go ahead. So I announced that I was doing it. And then just went through rounding sponsors up, and there's so many great people out there. support you and I've been really fortunate to find some great sponsors. do you want to give a shout out to some of your sponsors? Yeah to the especially Broom Mill Farm, the Dickens, TCC Plant, Rallymoto, Criterion Group, Motorhead Connection. There's pressure now. They did your helmet didn't they Motorhead Connection? Yeah they did my helmet. Which is fabulous by the way I really like that. But no I've been really fortunate. ⁓ So yeah, that got me halfway and then held the fundraiser in the November of that year. This is all prior to my first Dakar. And then we just about crossed the line, but for that, for like Dakar, you're looking at to be on a supported teams like 45 grand, 50 grand. So. is that where X-Raid's come in as well to support you in doing the, maybe the paddock stuff, you know, when you're getting back. So yeah, so X-Raid's provides the service for me. So they'll take my bike. I'll drop my bike off at their workshop in Spain. They take it to the port and the that goes to Dakar is one ship. It's that you do all your signing on and scrutineering in Barcelona and then the one that one ship goes. I think they do it like that so nobody can mourn that my car's not here because it's on this ship or that ship. Put them all on one ship and that ship arrives four weeks early or whatever for the event. So yeah, they take they take. all responsibility for that and for my admin as well in terms of registering for the event, which took a lot of pressure off me actually, because especially if it's first time around, you know, it's all these extra things that you don't want to think about. I'm figuring out how to make t-shirts and stuff and tell them how to make a website. know, how do you want to do is drive your bike. I know that was the easy bit. I thought when I got there actually ride the bike is something I know how to do, everything else was learning. They even do things like this. You know, it's all new experiences. Yeah. And when you say, you know, we decided, is that just you and your dad or is it, is it kind of bigger team when you say you make me, it's just you and your dad, it right? Your dad used to, didn't your dad ride a bit as well, didn't he? Yeah. He used to do a bit of, um, beach racing. Well, he's done everything, car rally and everything over the years, but he was sort of his best on a bike was when he was doing the, um, British beach racing championship. So I used to watch that red car. Yeah. Well, he'll, he'll have been racing. Yeah. One of my friends was racing as well. And I remember it going right down the, right down the beach and he had an off at the end and did his shoulder. So I had to go on there. I had to go and pick his bike up right at the farthest distance and push his bike back up the beach as a, as CR 500 it was on the CR 500. Well, he had a KX 500 because there were two strokes and then I think the well he says the random on methanol. Yeah. So they were pumping out a lot of Yeah. And they really went down that beach. Yeah, they really did. Robbie, how did you come to choose the bike you did the Dakar on? Because obviously there's loads of different bikes out there. So with rallying, especially at the top end, KTM is the only manufacturer of the have been for the previous few years who have been able to provide a bike that you can go and buy from the dealership. So you can buy KTM 450 RR, which is completely different to a 450 EXC. These bikes have a different frame, different engine, different wheelbase. They have three fuel tanks, 32 liters of fuel. So you've got fuel tank either side and then one under your back seat. Is that like under the seat? ⁓ Is their top? is right. Well, we'll drop that into the into the podcast. But that's yeah. So yeah, it's a serious bit. Yeah. can buy that from the shop. You can you can go and buy a racer. I mean, they only make a handful every year. I think last time I heard it was the made seventy five a year. And they're like a new one of them's thirty seven grand. I think thirty six grand. So, but just cause they're so bespoke, think the R &D goes into it. have to claw it back somewhere. But yeah, that's to do the DACA. After the night, probably not. You can't buy, well, you can't buy a factory Honda bike. I mean, you can get one similar and not, mean, Cove now, you the Chinese manufacturer there, they've brought, they're bringing out some good bikes now. And I think that looking for the future. I'd probably now do a Dakar on a cove. Would that be electric or would that be still a force roll? No, 450. So the 450 is the limit on FIM World Rally events. The lads used to ride like 800s, whatever they wanted. But now the limit on these is 450cc. But I think they've been thinking about upping it. And then we also have a speed limit of roughly just under 100 miles an hour on the sand. Not the rocks. Not the rocks. So that's the do-limit stuff. But when you're at that, think through the air, you think this is about quick enough anyway. Yeah. But yeah, so I mean, KTM's the bike that is won for the last 20 years or so. I think they've been pipped to the post a couple of times by Honda ⁓ and possibly I'm I don't. ⁓ I don't have the fact sheet in front of me. But yeah, so that's the reason why the majority of the field ride KTM 450s because it's a customer bike that you're able to buy. yeah, and then, but so really they put a lot of resource into that and it's paid dividends for them. And so from a reliability point of view, if you can show that your bike can do Dakar, then you'll sell bikes. So I know as part of your, um, so I can get ready for the Dakar for this year. Um, you went and did. Um, know I saw on your socials, went and did Scott trial, which is the one down in New York. Isn't it the one is that for the, um, is that the first club is that for the first club? Richmond organized the Scott trial. yeah, the, mean, the Scott trial was, or is the, the, call it the hardest one day trial in the world. And, I would agree with that. So I only got into trial. it go? did it go? I'd never. really done trials until I came back from Dakar last year and a few of my friends ride trials. thought, give it a pop. So but something a bit different, enjoy my year a bit more doing something else. And then I decided to enter the Scott trial, which was not my wisest idea. Considering it was I just I just struggled. Anyway, I got I got round to the grouse moor, which was about halfway around. And then the stop you just got some time. You're not going to finish in time. But Is it just the terrain? Is it the train and the conditions? is it? it's, it's more like the send you send you up these gills that you'd struggle to walk up where you will struggle to walk up a hundred percent. Sometimes easier on a bike to get up. Um, you know, you end up sending up these waterfalls, like six, six foot waterfalls, just a straight step up it and on a bike. Yeah. So there was some really serious stuff in there, but the stuff like that, I actually wasn't too bad on, because if you just commit to it, then it wasn't too bad. But it was the other little, it was just the constant, it's constant on your body. And it was driving me around and then you get arm pump and then you feel like you're overheating, even though it's like three degrees or whatever, because it's running late October. ⁓ But yeah, that was. The Scotch Isle is some event and it's a brilliant event to watch as well. I get riders from all over the world come to do it. So interesting. mean, obviously. But I didn't finish. I'm doing it again. I'm doing it again this year. I'm to just keep going until I finish. Whether it takes me 10 years, I'm going to do it. So extreme motor sport is tough on your body. ⁓ I mean, have you got a routine for keeping fit? Do you have a special diet? there anything like that? So you prepare yourself. So for my physical preparation for Dakar. I had a PT, which I used every week with one of my friends. So that was quite nice to be able to push each other. Do you to give him a mention? Jack. Well done, Jack. Is he good? Is he good? Yeah, he's all right. He helped push me in some parts of it. So I was quite proud of him for that. But yeah, that was really helpful. And then I'd just tried to do a lot of cardio stuff on the side. So with the PT, was mainly conditioning training. So real high intensity, because quite often on the bike, it's when you need your strengths, you need to apply it 100 % of your strength. Like if you're stuck in a dune or something, or there's various things. And then for the cardio side of things, I've just did running and rowing machine and whatnot, everything I can do at my house. And then, Also, you have to ride a bike as well, which is handy, handy practice. But the problem is the closer you get to Dakar, the more you're worrying about riding a bike and the more you're worrying about getting an injury. And it is a bit of a theme that some people have some fairly nasty injuries in December. It's like unusually, like you people talk about saying, ⁓ do you don't want to be riding your bike? like in December before Dakar, because there's some awful injuries with so many people. mean, this year there was, I could name three riders that didn't do Dakar this year because of injury prior. And it's just one of them things. don't know whether it's the anxiety and whatnot, riding a bike before and trying to push yourself. So in December, I just didn't, I didn't touch a bike. But did you, was it in November time you went to Qatar then? that, cause you rode a Honda then, didn't you? Yeah. So in, in November I did sort of my last bit of rally prep, which was the Qatar Baja World Cup. And that was a three day race. And that was my only chance really to have a go in some sand dunes just because obviously there's not many around here. Is there any sand dunes? Not at Redcar. Not a great deal at Redcar anyway. So yes, I had to try to get a bit. Well, actually I hired a bike, Honda, and it wasn't in the best shape. I thought it doesn't, it was just easier than shipping a bike out and then just for that event. So I hired a bike over there and it was only in the second day of that race that you actually go into the sand dunes. And it was, I was just riding. I saw the sand dunes sort of start to appear on the horizon and then I hit this rock and the bike just went, boo. Don't tell me I've come all this way. Been racing for a couple of days for this bike, not to get me into some sand dunes. And I was like, I've running really well, could have probably got a podium on with that event. So I was a bit disappointed, I thought the big picture. But anyway, I did manage to get the bike going. was, your rock had come through under the sump guard and it knocked off the electronics to the fuel pump. had like snapped off the connector, the full connector, so there was just the prongs sticking out. So I managed to, I didn't have, ideally it would have been super glue to fix it, but I just. You something I was carrying normally it's just zip ties and tape and it wasn't ideal so was putting lots of zip ties together. So obviously you can take limited supplies with you so is there a set kit you're allowed or not allowed to take? ⁓ So initially when I first started the ⁓ kit that's required to carry is mandatory for desert rallies is like it goes as far as carrying a flare first aid kit, I can't remember, there's a lot of things then, but now it's, now really they just want you to have a little first aid kit, ⁓ tin blanket, so you can shield someone. You need to make sure you have three liters of water on you. And I always just carry, like a multi-tool Leatherman with, and then. various sizes of zip ties because they do save the day. you haven't got back up helicopter just following you out? No, no, Not yet. Not yet. Yeah. And then maybe just the odd lever tape to the side of the bike. So it's really raw. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And going on to that, they do have marathon days at Dakar, which is where you have to after you've done the full day, which might be three, 400 miles, you On the marathon days you don't return to the bivouac which is where all the vehicles are, the service crew travel on the road during the day. On the night you stop at this, well it's just a truck in the middle of nowhere and that's your bivouac refuge for the night and they'll give you a tent, give you a roll mat, give you a sleeping bag and then give you an army ration pack. So and then you have to serve, so I put my tent up and everything, got my boots off and... And you don't have any spare clothes or anything. So you're just walking around in your undies and there's no toilets. So the thing is a minefield, a minefield on a morning. It was not actually a minefield if you're a dump. Yeah, it was. And then, service your own bike. But I was fortunate enough that my bike was I looked after it that day because, well, them two first days of the marathon, you got to look after your bike. Yeah. So I only had to. just change my filter and go through a few things. Sorry Mark, just before you move ⁓ So as a viewer, as a viewer, ⁓ that day a nightmare ⁓ because ⁓ obviously your waiting to upload any information socials he's getting limited information. So you're waiting to find out how's Robbie got on? Has he finished? There's been no accidents. There's been no... No, he's carrying a problem. All of them sort of thing. So you're waiting on socials to pass that information. Yeah. So that was, ⁓ I remember then it comes through, you know, his dad post something. We've managed to hear something from Robbie and everything is okay. The bikes running all right and blah, blah, blah. So it's like, great. I can relax now. can, well, Robbie's in the desert. I'm going for a drink. I was going to ask that actually. So, ⁓ obviously to sing about technology and stuff, you use the road book on the bike, but what about communications and what if something bad did happen? mean, because obviously mobile phones don't work in the middle of the desert, so. So you've got a, there's a GPS unit on the bike, which talks to the organization. And now you can't use that for any sort of travel, like direction where you need to go or anything. But should there be an issue, firstly, if you have a big off. they know you've crashed big. There must be a G-sensor in the unit. Or if you're stationary for an X amount of time, they have the ability to contact you and actually talk to you through this unit. ⁓ that goes to the headquarters in Paris. So you can speak to somebody there. So yeah, from that side of things, the safety is brilliant. It's a lot better than what it used to be. Because people before... did just get lost and that was it. They never turned up. know, so it's a lot better than it was. But you still have, still always have it on the back of your mind. Especially when you're riding along some days and if you pass a bike and there's no rider with it, then you know that they've been shipped out. And there was one day, think it was day four, I must, just by chance, by the speed I was riding, I saw three different riders getting loaded up and literally been carried into the helicopter each and just as I was coming around the corner just by chance and then there was two other bikes off the course out there and so you knew the people were dropping like flies so that's that makes it easy. Is that a problem though if there's helicopters in your and I assume that's gonna be anyway so it could be the sand dunes or whatever and is it not a problem with the downdraft and all that when you're riding? I mean you never really see them to like if you're thinking I'm 300 odd miles You might only be like 30 seconds of your day. You'll see them. But they do. You see them flying the route often and coming over your head. And then if you think you're a little bit lost, I know that they always fly the route. So you think, if he's flying that way, I know where he's going. You just have to keep up. Yeah. Robbie, do know when you're doing a stage, obviously, whatever the distance maybe, do you have a point where you stop to have a break or is it like literally you start and you don't stop till you get to the end? So you'll First firstly on a morning you'll do your liaison like to the start of stage which which can be Hundreds of kilometers or just 50 kilometers it depends so you've got that first stint in the morning, and that's when it's really really cold ⁓ You know just a few degrees and you get kitted up in all your gear and Then you have warm gear on top of that so I had like ski salopettes and a big jacket and then once you can ski gloves and then once you get to the start of the stage you carry a little bag that they give you at the start of the event you put all your warm gear in there and there's this one van that does all the warm kit for the lads for two weeks just throw it on the back of there and then fill your bike up and then now you're ready to start the stage and it's the sun's up they're all you know you normally always start after sunrise yeah because yeah it's just You're not allowed to race before sunrise. I know I've been in the desert and I know it's cold. So yeah. And get going and refuel is normally about 200 to 250 kilometers in. So that's what hundred and thirty miles something, let's say on average. ⁓ So yeah. And then for your refuel, you'll come in. It's like a neutralization point. So when you come through, you ⁓ GPS bleeps and then it says you have 20 minutes neutralization. So then you ride to the, and that'll be on a speed limit as well. So you'll slow down to, I think it'd be 20, 30 kilometers an hour, ride to the fuel truck. There'll be a fuel truck there. Get off, fill your bike up, get back on, then ride to the next little gazebo bit where they'll have lots of water and a couple of benches so you can fill your bike. And that 20 minutes is now only about 12 minutes, because by the time you've filled up and everything, it's quite tight. So you take your helmet off, then your earplugs out, and then take your backpack off. Fill your camel back up, number one. Put some hydration tablets in it as well. You've had a shake. Put it back in. And then try and eat a few, whatever you can. I normally carry a few little energy bars, bits and bobs. Stuff that down your neck. And then next minute, you know, you've only got like two minutes left. So helmet back on, go. And off you go. What about toilet breaks? What if you need to go when you're bouncing around? Well, we know what you're like. think when you're working that hard, I was only faster. The fluid will you don't. Maybe only going like once when the refueled just nip around the back and yeah, because you you just you dehydrate. Yeah. I mean, I was drinking like maybe seven liters a day. Wow. I don't just have two camelbacks. Yeah. was going to ask that question about, cause when you, when you look at the Dakar riders, obviously they've got packs on there and must be carrying them on their back. And you'll have a chest plate on as well. other safety equipment are you wearing underneath here? So you've got, an airbag vest, I wear an Alpinestar airbag vest. ⁓ and that's just got two cartridges in behind your neck. There's this little control module thing and then any sort of irregular movement. So if you flip forward or. It can sense if you the ground hard, but it's pretty good. ⁓ But if I've had some small crashes and it goes off and you'd and they're about 100 quid to pop these or 80 quid to pop the couches. ⁓ yes, I went through a few of them. I wouldn't like to know how much money I've given Alpine Stars over the last two years. Maybe they should sponsor you. They've got a man on the event who drives around in this little camper van and he has boxes of these. He's like a bomb just driving around. All the gas canisters there. But I always try and sweeten him up for a deal. He always gives me a little bit off and then I'm going to get a cap out of him as well. Has he got a little car machine he's left with? He always says, oh, euros, euros or Saudi reals. And I say, oh, I've only got pounds. And then I always do some dodgy exchange rate from him. He says, oh, 90 euros. I'm like, oh, 75 quid. So I always get him a bit cheaper. And he just goes, yeah, whatever. He'll probably get in trouble. We've gone to the Alpine staff and over in the corner as well. likes his Alpine staff stuff. Yeah, these airbag vests are really good. The Mandatory now as well. So there used to be people who'd wear a neck brace but nobody really wears, well you can't wear a neck brace with your airbag vest because if it goes off it's like just pop your helmet off. But yeah that's the way forward now. So this last rally you done with, that was your second or your third? That was my second Dakar. And my first finish. First finish. So what would you say was the most ⁓ memorable or? most exciting moment this time around? ⁓ Well, with all the nerves and everything I had prior to coming again this year, deciding to do it again to actually get that medal, it was... Show us your medal. We want to see the medal. Look at this. Look at Catch it in the light. In the light. Yeah. It's a proper... You know when you're holding it. Yeah. It's a proper bit of weight in that. It does. It weighs a lot. quite a bit, yeah. That's really impressive though. When I was coming to the finish, mean, yeah, I've got some brilliant stories throughout the event, which made me happy and which I'll remember forever. just being able to that medal, was, ⁓ I didn't believe for the whole rally, because actually in the second week of this year, I had a fairly big off again. And I landed on the other side of this, when it was more like I went over this brow and on the road book, there wasn't... There wasn't a caution. So normally if you have three, up to three cautions, single caution, you sort of aware of it, don't really slow down for it, but you might do a little bit. Double caution, you back off on, and then a triple caution if you don't, if you don't back off for you'll probably be killed. It's like, you'll be a cliff or something absolutely horrendous that if you don't back off for, if you don't see it, you'll have a real nasty one. And so, yeah, and then this brow that I went over, there was two prior to it, just fast rolling, like sandy brows, not quite June's, was sort of in the middle. And then I came over that, came over the first couple and I backed off for the first two. And even though was still trusting the road book, there was no caution, I still sort of did. then I was, because you have to trust the road book if you want to be quick. You can't just be too cautious. Anyway, I came over this third one and just by chance, ⁓ the side that I came over, was a dip on the other side. I came over this third one and just by chance, ⁓ the side that I came over, was a dip on the other side. And if I'd have gone over the right, was ⁓ just a very gradual dip. But the left, it was quite a sharp dip. And because you're coming over at speed, I'd have been doing ⁓ maybe 60 miles an hour. ⁓ over that and then landed the other side and my back compressed into the seat. it was quite a sharp dip. Came over that and then landed on the other side and my back compressed into the seat. And then just heard this enormous click and it went all the way up into my ears then that bounced me off the bike and I thought, ⁓ I thought I'd broke me back here. ⁓ heard this enormous click and it went all the way up into my ears and then that bounced me off the and I thought, ⁓ I thought I'd broke me back here. ⁓ And I did think, that's it, dachas over and then wiggle my toes and I thought, well, ⁓ still good news that I can feel my legs. So I ⁓ couldn't stand up or anything. ⁓ shock in my back was awful. And it was... absolutely excruciating pain. So I managed to like crawl out the track and then this this lad stopped, picked up my bike and sort of asked, you know, do you need it? Do you need the helicopter or do you need the doctor? And in that time, I thought I was thinking, yeah, I do. I've got to have someone check me out. But after maybe five, 10 minutes, the pain sort of went from like a 10 to like a nine point. Eight. So I thought, well, at least there's like some improvements. If I just keep sitting here, that nine point eight will keep going down. And then I had a bit of a feel around of my back. I pressed the bones on my spine and I thought, and there wasn't any sort of shooting pain from that. So thought, oh, I must, I can't have brought me back. So managed to sort of crawl towards my bike. Lean. onto it, lift my leg over onto it. And I knew it was only about 50 kilometers to the refuel. So slowly pressed onto the refuel, got there and then this was this doctor and he supplied me with like multi ⁓ range, all of these different pills of various different colors. And then I just had all of them. And then after about an hour. I could still feel the pain pretty sharp but it was like just like a dull sharp maybe a 7.8 yeah and it was enough to sort of keep riding but I did start to like my mind was wandering and then you woke up and you'd over the finish line different areas but just saw the wheels are still turning you're still on for the medal so that second week was really tough But yeah, when we got to the, well, when I got to the final, I did the final big day and I thought, you you can relax now, but I thought, no, don't relax, don't relax. And then the last day, it was only about 60 kilometers. No, maybe, no, it a bit longer than that actually, 80 kilometers or so. Like an hour and a half blast, an hour blast. So that was, there was a lot of emotions on that morning. Didn't know, you know, this is it. You're about to live. This is a dream that you've been living for for so long. And then I went, I did a go up city flat off the start line. A few people were going steady and I just, I said, just keep running your bike like you know, too. Um, that was really pushing on. Started past a couple of lads and, uh, and then as for the finish, it brought you around onto the last 30 kilometers was down the sea line. So you were just following like this cliff. all the way around. And even then I was sort of, you know, you're not finished yet. The bike could blow up. You could have a big off. You might end up in the sea. In my head, like you're fighting with yourself. You're oh, you're finished. No, you're not. You're finished. you're not. And it was only until I got maybe five kilometers from the end and I could see the the tents and everything of the bivouac. I thought you've actually done it this time. And then at that point I just burst out crying in my helmet. But then I couldn't see, I couldn't see. But the bit was really fast. So I was like trying to wipe my eyes, fighting with the bike and I just... kept crying. That was like us the other week on the Helmsley TT. It was awful. was awful. There's more gravel down that TT than I think I've ever seen. And we were doing a bit like you know, hanging on the bike. Gentlemen, I don't think we can quit riding down there. no, no. Being in the Dakar, that's for sure. Do know when you came off and obviously the other riders stopped to check you out, is that quite common? Do they do that? Because obviously they're putting their own race. No, well, you'd never, you'd never. ride past somebody who stopped. Yeah, that's what saying. Because obviously it's a welfare thing to make sure obviously a fellow rider. They will give you time back. Like if you come across a lad in his brockies leg and you're waiting for a bit of time for the helicopter come and maybe you have to upload them in and stuff. Because they can monitor where your bike is. If you just go to race control, they'll and you say I stopped for this bike. They'll take your time and they'll give you it back. So that's good, but either way everyone would always stop. Just because you are in the middle of nowhere. Because you see it obviously on the TV when you watch the Dakar and you see people stopping, but nobody knows how it works. So when they actually, you go and help someone, you don't see any of that because all you see is another rider helping another rider and they don't realise that they can get the time taken off. I didn't anyway. I saw a lovely clip on the actual Dakar footage that was on Discovery on TNT. And it's showing one of the Italian riders and the guy had broken down, one of the guys had broken down his bike and the Italian rider was going, past and forgive me for I can't remember the gentleman's name, but he rode about 2K on and he had this, I think this guy might be the last one for the day. And he turned back on his 2K, went back and he said to the guy and the guy was in, his bike was in. various different bits and he said just put everything back together. He said I've got a strap and he towed him all the way back through the finish line because obviously again as Robbie said earlier on if he didn't finish the stage he wouldn't qualify for his finishers medal so and there was this lovely image of him getting pulled through and the guy just like saying oh thank you so so much you know thank you so much for pulling me pulling back but then equally there's a lovely bit on socials as well of And some, another British rider, Neil Hawker coming over and the person is buried. His bike is buried in the sand. And I think that gentleman might be here. And I think it was just ⁓ because I, you know, I, I ⁓ rode on sand on old Honda and stuff, but it's like ⁓ pretty firm sand. Now you're in really soft sand. So yeah. So the, there's this, well, so on that day, actually that was. about three days after my injury. ⁓ was stage 10. And we'd been told sort of that was the killer of the rally that stage that was going to be the hard one. And we did actually last year, we rode it on stage three, like that region ⁓ and the sand. So I was my problem that day was every time I even got slightly stuck with my bike because I didn't have the strength in my back. Like every morning, my dad was sort of. dragging me out the tent and getting me dressed and putting me on the bike for that second week. I just didn't have the strength to pick up the bike. So I was relying on people coming through to, on the fast going, I could sort of manage it, any big bumps or whatnot. as soon as they dropped the bike, was stuffed. So yeah, it was fortunate. people would always help me, which I was extremely fortunate for. Cause if I was on my own, I just wouldn't, if I'd have gone off track by like a kilometre and just gone a different route, I'd have just been knackered. So yeah, that that day, that sand, that particular area, the sands, they call it like fresh, fresh. it's, it's like quicksand almost. It's so powdery and you can't read it. I mean, the experts can't, I've still struggled with reading certain dunes, but you can just be riding along and your front wheel will disappear. There's nothing you can do about it, it just will go. And the only other place I've ridden that sand is in Mauritania, and that was just before, just north of Senegal, and that's known for this particular sand. But normally it's... sand can be quite predictable. Or if it's had a bit of rainfall, a bit firmer, or even if the rainfall was weeks ago, just like a centimeter down or two, it's still damp underneath. But yeah, this fresh, fresh sand, it's very weird. Like you have to ride it hard constantly. the amount it takes out of you is unbelievable. Because once you get yourself stuck in that sort of situation as well as... You don't want to put load of power into the back wheel because the back wheel is just going to spin it up again and just going to dig yourself back down into another, into another ditch. So how do you, you know, once you're out of it, how do you, is it just trying to start off in a bigger skier that you possibly can? Yeah, it's a sim. Yeah. You want to be so if you can try and get away in second and get it rolling. And then once, once you're up to a certain speed, ⁓ it will, it will travel at that. But if you're obviously when you're cresting over dunes, there's a point where you're not. going quick and that's when you can be caught out or if you're having to turn all these these little moments and when it's so easy to get caught out or if you're going up a big dune you have to know when you're not going to make it to the top so you still have the momentum to turn around and get back down rather than commit get near the top and then you just find yourself in a world of trouble. When you're talking about dunes I mean these aren't things that we see on some seashore in on the coast of England, is it all the rest of the British Isles? How, I mean, are these things massive? Unbelievably big. Some of them. Yeah. Some of them are like hundreds of meters tall. And they move as well, don't they? Because obviously the wind moves the doom. Yeah. So if you saw, Robbie would go through one day, if you went the next day, that doom wouldn't be the same because it didn't move. And I suppose if you want, if you, I mean, these guys are ultra competitive, aren't they? These, these guys, you know, and you want to go fast. And you'd be looking at your book as well to see how cautious you need to be. Where stuff's moving as well. How much do you give it? How much do you not give it? do you like? Reading the crest of the June is always the hardest because each June has a crest. So if you know you're hitting the crest, then you know it's going to be flat on the other side. So you can take it with some speed and jump through it. But inversely to that, if you that wrong. you can end up going off the edge of a dune. And that's where there's some not very nice stories have come out of going off edge of dunes. Yeah. So yeah, so I'm always maybe over cautious sometimes, which then penalizes you because you get stuck more frequently. I don't know. It's a very fine map. It's just practice. It's like the Arabs, the lads who live over there, they can read the dunes. You know, it's no different. If I go on riding a duo around some boggy woodlands, I'm sure I could, I'm sure I'd probably be a lot quicker than them on these single route tracks, you know, throwing it around. Cause that's what I've always done. So he's just practice when it comes down to the dunes. Well, you sat here with your finishes medal. Yeah. And you're also sat here as the first British rider home. Great achievement. was one of thing I did find on your socials was the photography and some of those images. like mean, Tom's massively in photography and showing you, wasn't it? Do you have like how does that work? Do have a crew with you? Is there a Dakar photographer or do they have drones? I mean, it's got the drone pilot. The stuff that was on there was incredible. There's certain just photographers on the event. ⁓ And I picked one that might be like four or five different companies go out and do it. And there might be a group of three or four photographers each. and they'll get themselves placed along the course each day. And then I just paid them a fee at the start and they provided me with daily pictures. But yeah, I fair play to them actually, because they're never in the bivouac really. Every night they're camping out in the stars and keeping up with the rally. So they're sat for a lot of hours a day waiting for all the bikes and whatnot to come through. And then they have to then get in the car and drive. most of the time not on the road. So I do actually have a lot of respect for the photography. Hopefully we can share some of those images. Yeah. You've sent us some, so there is some brilliant stunning. Absolutely stunning. And you don't see it. I don't really get to appreciate the landscapes and things to go to. Yeah. Cause you're normally just staring in front of you hoping not to come off. And if you're standing in front of you, are you, so not only looking at your road book, but you're also looking at where people have been previously as well. So If you've got the benefit of some tracks in front of you and you're thinking, great, I'll follow this. then equally that might be somebody's gone off the wrong way. So it's, ⁓ I mean, fortunately from where I'm, I was running, there's normally like 30 bikes have gone through. ⁓ but it's, there is certain types of riding or certain ground conditions where there isn't any tracks in front of you. And I'm always on my road book. It's just certain times. especially in the dunes, I might ease off the road book a bit to concentrate more on my riding. Then hopefully I'll make less mistakes, you know, can go a bit quicker rather than concentrating on my navigation as much. But you're always, I always know where I am. I say this, I do get lost, but some people will just ride blatantly without. without following the road book and then they just get lost all the time. But I always know which note I'm on and roughly where I am really. So it's a fine line. How much you want to if you really follow your road book and just stare at it, you won't go anywhere. It's that hard to find that balance of how much you really want to concentrate. I mean, some people's mental capacity is greater where they really can share that much time with riding and concentrate. ⁓ I can only do so much. But yes, it's one of them. And when you see the speed that especially the lads at the front are going whilst navigating, is something I think with absolute respect to the factory lads. What's your favourite terrain then when you do the deco? ⁓ Well, my favourite terrain is when I went to Portugal once and there was absolutely chucked it down. And we were on these WRC tracks. I think they had been used not that long back for WRC event or some big rally. And it was so boggy and I was just absolutely in my element. Really? That would be the worst That would be the British way of then. So yeah, but in general, I excel on just the really fast stuff. some people I think might back off a little bit. And I think you were saying to me previous when we met some months ago and we were chatting about stuff about last year, not this year. And you were saying, it's all right when you get on some like flat the stages, it's great. But that's also maybe some of the stages that some of the cars are gonna come past you. And if it's, you're just then gonna end up in a sandstorm. How do you manage that? So you... So on the each day, I probably had maybe on average the top 10 cars past me. They start, I believe they start half an hour after the last month after the last bike might have been 45 minutes. Can't But they're really traveling like the factory Ford's, you know, and you've got some serious bits of kit and you can hear them coming to my love. Well, sometimes you can sometimes you can't, but you get a ⁓ They have a, their co-driver is able to send a signal once they're within 800 meters of you. And that bleeps to me. just like, do, do, do, do, Is that inside the comms in helmet? No, that's on the bike. There's a little not horn thing. It's called a Sentinel. Um, but that bleeps loudly and then you know, well, that also bleeps when there's a triple caution as well. It only bleeps for triples, not doubles. Um, actually did bleep for doubles on this year's Dakar, but previously it didn't. Um, Yeah, once they, so they give you that first warning and then I sort of have a glance, see how far away they are from me. Normally I'll, I'll just press on for another sort of 10, 15 seconds and then they'll really start closing you. And if you, if you don't move, it depends who the driver is. Quite often, if they're an ex-biker, which a lot of them are ex-professional riders who've then moved into the cars, they'll give you space, but some lads are not as... Nice, which and it's absolutely horrible if the if they come when they come flying past you, there's just the noise, the stones and everything is it's incredible when they come past you and they're throwing up stones, you know, like bigger than your fist. So it's you. You don't want to get behind them. And the problem is on the fast stuff, as soon as they come past you, they send it up a wall of dust behind them. And now quite often. It's all right when we're flying along through like round little bushes and large rocks and anything that might have been like just stuffs left out in the desert quite often old tires, anything, a little fence. As soon as they come past you, you can't see anything and you're traveling at high speed. So you, I always just back straight. Well, quite often I look behind me to see which way the wind's blowing and try and get down wind, ⁓ upwind of the car. So that at least gives you a little bit of breathing room. ⁓ But yeah, a lot of accidents have come from dust. And that's even when I'm following a rider, if I catch a rider, how much risk you're willing to take to get past that rider. And sometimes it's really hard to restrain yourself. Quite often you just say, you know, I'll just nip hat and then next minute you're over the bars or whatever. But yeah. Fortunately, the trucks, which are like the trucks. I was going to ask you about the truck. They're about three to four times as big as the cars. ⁓ I've only had one event because the truck started the very back. I've only had one event. That was the Morocco Desert Challenge where they actually caught me. And that was scary. That was really because when there must be the bigger than 12 foot high, there must be when you stand next to them, you just feel like a minnow. And yeah. So when they came past it, they would just straight line anything. So we'd be going down these rocky tracks, anything's like, know, it's catching your front wheel, everything. So he's trying to go quick. And they would just get the compass heading and just do a straight line and they'd be hitting boulders, floured. That's mad. If you watch any videos on YouTube of the trucks, they're And like you said, they are massive. They are massive trucks. Massive, yeah. gigantic things. And the horsepower in them are nuts. Yeah. I bet there'd be some, I don't know the stats, but I bet if you went through, quite impressed by them. So I know that there was one stage this year that there was a, uh, a British celebrity on and I think you might have had a bit of a conversation with him, didn't you? Because was he waving, was he just at the start line or something like that? Yeah, well, so at the refuel, the race director was there actually. He quite often just flies along the event. guess he can, he does what he wants at least. He the hard work in all, yes. So he just flies around watching the rally and then he was at the refuel. So, and yeah, you do sort of notice it in your peripheral oil. David Castereza. And then I went to go and fill up my camel back and then just sat on like one of the little camping chairs next to was Mark Cavendish, sat there and I sort of like double took look at him and then I don't know, it was really unusual. I just went, oh, now Mark. know, it was just really unusual just to see him there. And me forgetting that I'm not really into recycling that much. like over there with the Tour de France and this is Dakar is predominantly French orientated and and then once I got chatting to him all like the French and Italian writers were they must have thought I was mates with him and they were all like sort of sat around listening to me chatting with him and he said I said to him ⁓ would you do Dakar because he can ride a bike well he's from the Isle of Maton so it's in his blood ⁓ And he says, don't think I can put myself through much more pain in my life. said, well, fair enough. And then as soon as I walked away, all everyone sort of rushed over to him. Oh, can I have a selfie or whatever? I was just like, all right, see you later. Can you hold these up a bit for us, Mark? When I got riding, thought, does he have a night out? He does, yeah. Should have maybe a bit more formal. I probably would have said complete opposite. He said, do not go with that. So I'm going to ask you something else as well. I know I've asked the other question, but we'll leave that till the end. And I was going to ask you about things like spare parts. So x-rays are doing them, but they're bits and pieces. And I suppose when you're getting blasted by cars with sand and everything else, air filters and everything else are all going to get filled up and they're all going to need to be changed. I mean, is it every day that you're coming back, the maintenance is getting done on the bike, tires getting changed. mean, how often do you go through sets of tires? I do a back tire every day. Wow. How bad is the back tire when you get off a stage? Well, it's, well, it's not raceable after, after a long day. If you're on the marathon stage, you have to do two days because you can't change your tire on the night. So after two days. they are absolutely goose and there's quite a few lads actually tires completely failed on the second day because just because you're pushing them that hard. I was cautious with mine on both of the marathon days. ⁓ But yeah, so I do brand new back tire every day and a new well, I think like for the prologue and stuff, you can reuse that one and try and find a shorter stage to squeeze in. But yeah, rule of thumb, new back every day and then new front every other day. But I think we did stretch a few fronts out three days. It's just dependent on the terrain, like in the June, so you don't really work your tires that much. But anything like rocky, slightly rocky, it'll just take the edge off. And you're having to buy those yourself, or are you getting sponsored by some manufacturer? No, I don't have to buy them. Which is really, you know, when we were chatting to somebody, Michelin, weren't we? Michelin, was going off to do... the bike race in that Croft over near Darlington. And he was going to support because I think they sponsor the series. So basically all the riders were getting the tires as part of, you know, as part of the series. And it was like, well, and I mean, just the amount of money and if you've got to take all of that kit with you, or is it all? Yeah, you've got to. So all that goes to Barcelona and then shipped out from Barcelona. Well, and what's your what's your favorite brand? What's your what tires are you What's the With the I Have Mitchell in Desert Race, there's two, there's Desert Race, Desert Race, Baja, the Baja one's a bit more motocrossy, you could say. The Desert Race is just, it's more like an adventure bike, you really. that, because we run mooses with them, so I guess you know what they are, yeah. No, no, no, no, Mooses, so they're, instead of an inner tube, a moose is just like a form. Yeah, it's just a completely solid. Like a swimming float. Yeah, yeah, it's exactly like a swimming float. So it's just one of them and the desert moose is extremely hard. So it's really difficult to put in. Whereas on my enduro bike, we just use an old moose and it might like on my enduro bike, might replicate like six, seven PSI. But the desert moose is twice as hard as that. And we use a new rear moose. every other day. like they're like 200 quid or whatever. But that's just if you're going to go all that way, don't skimp on things like tires. you know, think the amount of times we were thinking about buying stuff and it was something that's like 80 quid or 100 quid. And I made it and then I'm just like. I just paid X amount for the entry fee. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't matter. it about 22,000 euros for the entry fee or something? Yeah. think the entries 20,000, 20,000 years I might be getting muddled up with my pounds in euros. You do get a lot for that to be fair. That's all your fuel, isn't it? you have all the rules and food, everything. and then you're in the desert and you're sleeping in your toilet. I imagine they a lot of the costs must go to the medical side of things because it is it's like a fully operational hospital. They have each bivouac, but you can get a CT scan, x-ray, everything on all this toad in this wagon. So you anything you need, they've got it. Well, even the helicopters. Years ago, we did some filming and the helicopter was six grand an hour. just to hire it to shoot a bit of content, know. So they are the very expensive and they run. So that must be, they've got what? Five or six of these helicopters? 14. And they're flying every day for two weeks. Wow. And if you think about how many people are racing, 14 helicopters is not a lot. No. So if you have to go and remove people. 400 competitors, think, 400, 500 competitors in total in the rally. And are you wearing... from a safety point of view as well from a helmet perspective is it just one helmet all the way through or have you got a couple of different helmets? Well most people bring a spare but I only had one so I thought I did also think if I take a spare then you sort of admit into crashing. That's true, that's true. I didn't like to maybe follow Put that superstition to one side let's just do one I only need one helmet don't I? Yes you do only need one helmet. And it was the The graphics and the motorized connection did Fabulous job. Looked up some, I'll put some pictures of them. think definitely. It was, I actually had a struggle with the helmet beforehand because this year they're putting the FIM brought in a new homologation for the helmets, which sort of bit everyone a bit because there was only two, three manufacturers actually had one commercially available to go in the shop and get. So I always have used Bell helmets all my life. just because they fit my head brilliantly and I think they're the best helmets. But yeah, I couldn't get my hands on the Bell helmet unless I was like a Bell rider, which I'm not. So like this standard of helmet. Anyway, I managed to get this other one, LS2 helmet. It was after the motorcycle live show. Is that right? Yes, NEC. Yeah, they had one in Stock in Birmingham, which was just sheer luck. And this was the point where we were like, I'm not going to help me. And you have to have this one because the scan it's got a little QR code on. So there's no cheating the system and just saying, oh, yeah, put that sticker on. know, like people used to do it. I see you stick on the back of helmet, the both eBay. Yeah, it's telling them what the sequence now. I bet you can get it if you want. But yeah, so this one, so that was a bit nervous, nerve wracking from that point of view. yeah, no, it was it was nice to get the help from. with that. Have you had nobody come like forward and saying, you know what Robbie, I'll go back to that question. Would you do it again or will you do it again? Because if you do qualify for the next couple of years, doesn't have to do it in 27, could you do it in 28 or 29? But have you had nobody come say, well, bell helmets, there we go. ⁓ we'll give you a helmet Robbie and you can do that or Alpine stars or whatever and get something because you were the best British rider in the whole event. Well, I think ⁓ ⁓ well, there's two parts to that question. First part is, will I go back? And, ⁓ the answer to that, I'm found an answer to it. Last time it took me until June, May, May, June last year. Up until that point, was saying, I've seen never doing that again in my life. No chance because of how awful it was. But this year, cause I finished, it was, ⁓ I didn't, I didn't have that feeling. I'm still in the mindset now is yeah, I don't want to go through that two weeks, but. I'm not as negative as I was to it last year. But I guess it's like if you ask the bloke, bloke who's just come down Everest, or do you want to go back up straight away? like, absolutely not. But then give him a couple of years or something. It's maybe another run at that. ⁓ So first part to it, the answers, I don't know. But this next year is the 49th anniversary and the following year is the 50th anniversary. So there is a bite for that. So you could say. That'd be one way to look at it. But I do want to, I do want to ride bikes. I do want to do something exciting. So, but I have to go back for the right reasons because you're running the gauntlet again. You take, you put in a lot on the line every time you do that. And it's, and it's not, you have to be, you have to be slightly, you have to use your brain when you make a decision. How many British riders were there? So this year there was four, well, there was five of us actually. And one of the lads, James Hillier, TT rider, he went out on the first day actually, which was really unfortunate because he's not too dissimilar speed to me. So throughout the rally, we'd have been riding together. ⁓ You know, the fuel stops and stuff you have someone to chat to. I mean, you still make other mates and whatnot throughout the event, but it's I mean, it's always just nice to have British lads there. But and then the other three lads, was two brothers, the Searle brothers and Neil Hawker. So. It was nice having them and then them three finished. So that was brilliant for four of us to get to the end out of five. It was just a shame about James. He had a fall and broke his arm on the first day. he said he wasn't even pushing that much. It was just one of them things. Just really unfortunate. So, yeah, I mean, ideally you want everyone to finish. But it is one of them events where you don't wish bad upon anyone because you know how you know how much risk you're all taking. So yeah, but now we got there, so it was nice to the lads finished. Yeah. Yeah. So outside of the Dakar then, do you, because we're obviously we're road riders. If we do go off road, it's not on purpose. And I have been in a ditch. I would like to go. We have talked about maybe going and doing one of the off road schools, you know, but I don't know. at my age, we all went to ABR last year, we? Yeah. Did you enjoy that? I it. went for a day. I thought it was really good. Really good. Yeah. Do you do any road riding? I know you mentioned that you love the bog and all that kind of stuff. But do you go on the road? And if so, do you have any particular routes that you go? Not really. I have a have a bike license, but I don't have a road bike. I've been on once in could have been in covid. My dad's got a little like cafe racer thing. Kawasaki VN 800 converted. And I took that to Richmond to go and see my pals. There was nobody on the road. Anyway, I was pushing on like, and I'd even said, I'll just go steady, I we know what that means. It's called making progress. on the way back, I made a lot of progress. And then when I, just couldn't, I couldn't go steady. But anytime I've ever ridden a bike, it's... and I'd even said, I'll just go steady, I we know what that means. It's called making progress. on the way back, I made a lot of progress. The first thing I do is go as fast as you can, because I've never had that sort of like leisure casual riding experience. It's always been. And when you're on a bike, you're racing. And I found it really hard to not go as fast as I could. I think you need to go at the T.T. You know, you've probably got the right attitude for it. Go as fast as you can. But yes, I sort of sidelined ⁓ sidelined road riding after that. ⁓ But and I do like I know I take silly doing things like Dakar, but I always feel like that's. calculated risk and that's my own personal risk. Whereas when you're on the road, anything can happen. we know, as we both know, Mrs. McGinn's to pull out and she's the worst. She's always going into people and don't need Mrs. McGinn's either. These along the road. Yes. Scotty's got a lovely video. could show you. ⁓ well, it's been absolute pleasure having you here, but before you go, we've got a couple of fast questions. right. These are quick. can edit out the gap. No, no, keep it in. So if money was no object, yeah. What bike would you buy? Probably another brand new kid. There you go. he's doing, he's going to do well, you're going to do some race in that. would like an old like Indian from like 1910 or something. You really cool bike. Yeah. So go to Richmond. Yeah. The waterfalls. So who's your motorcycle in here? I mean, from an Enduro point of view, it'd have to be, you'd have to look at the likes of Graham Jarvis. All right. Okay. And we all look blank for a moment, don't we? Yeah. Tom will bring some. I recognize the name. So favorite place to ride your bikes. ⁓ my favorite venue is probably, it was where I won my first race and that was a quarry in Scunthorpe. miles away. just, and every, just in quarries, I always used to do really well when I was growing up. So that, type of riding suits me sort of. thought you're going to say somewhere in Morocco. Nice weekend ⁓ Would be in the wet as well? Robbie, would it be in the wet? Yeah, it would have to be the ⁓ wet. That's in me. Happy place. ⁓ All right. So keeping you happy place and you've got couple of quid in your pocket. Yeah. and you're go and buy yourself something. Is it gonna be a new helmet, new boots, new clothing, something else? What are you gonna go and buy? New tires it's gonna be. not even sure. I've never really been one for getting blingy bits. Cause my dad always said, if you don't make the bike go faster, we're not buying it. I'm screwed then. Terrible. I'd probably get a new. new helmet, full carbon fiber, and then get a custom paint job on it. Nice. ⁓ Well, Robbie, it's been an absolute pleasure. And I'm really delighted that you came along tonight because it's been fabulous. And we've learned so much. There's so much we still need to learn as well. thank you so, much for coming honestly, thank you very much for coming along, Robbie. It's been absolutely great to finally meet you. ⁓ And so that's for tonight's episode. ⁓ I'm in the middle. Sorry, I'm seeing the middle and seeing the middle. Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks for coming along. ⁓ no, I can imagine for British riders. ⁓ Yeah. And thanks very much. And we'll see you on the next episode. Good night for all of us. Robbie everyone. Robbie Wallace. ⁓