Latest / Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh / Essential Tips for Optimizing Sleep: Advice from a Board-Certified Sleep Physician

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Essential Tips for Optimizing Sleep: Advice from a Board-Certified Sleep Physician · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

• 0:03
  Hello, welcome to yet another episode of Chatting with the Experts TV show
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  with me, Paula Okonneh, as the host.
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  Every week I bring to you women from Africa or the Caribbean
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  or the African diaspora.
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  And sometimes not even the African diaspora, but they're just women.
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  And I, on some occasions I bring men.
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  And our mission is to educate, to empower and inspire women globally.
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  That's been our mission for some time.
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  Today, it's another great episode because I have a fantastic guest and we'll
• 0:47
  be going, we're going to be talking about optimizing sleep and wellness.
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  So my guest says sleep is a critical aspect of health and
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  wellness, yet it is often neglected.
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  In this episode, we'll discuss the benefits of healthy sleep,
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  the impact for sleep and practical strategies to optimize sleep.
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  I need all of that because for years I thought sleep didn't
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  matter, but I've learned otherwise.
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  And with me to do that is Dr.
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  Funke Afolabi-Brown.
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  I'll tell you a little bit about her.
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  She's a board certified.
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  I can't speak.
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  She is a board certified sleep physician and the founder of Restful Sleep MD.
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  She helps women and their children to prioritize sleep to achieve
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  optimal health to thrive and to live life to the fullest potential.
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  And with that, I invite Dr.
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  Funky Afolabi-Brown to the show.
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  Hello.
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  Hello.
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  Hello.
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  Thank you so much for having me.
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  Hi.
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  How are you?
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  I am great.
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  And I will always feel even better when my guests come on because it's
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  so exciting to me and this topic is of particular importance to me
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  because I didn't like to sleep.
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  I thought sleeping was for people who weren't strong, who didn't
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  know how to take care of life.
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  And I found out it's a lie.
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  Sleep is good.
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  Yes, it is.
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  So I just said a little bit about you.
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  I always ask my guests to embellish what I've said.
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  Can you add more to that?
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  You said everything.
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  I mean, my mission is really clear.
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  One of the things I say also is to just help people change
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  their relationship with sleep.
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  I think sometimes at the beginning, the relationship with sleep is
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  what gets in our way of eventually getting the sleep we need.
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  And so that's really what I'm here for.
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  That's what I'm here to do.
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  Awesome.
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  And you say that optimizing sleep and wellness is your priority.
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  Well, let's roll because I need to know this.
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  I'm better, but I could even be much better at sleeping.
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  So here goes.
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  So, what's the benefit of sleep?
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  Is it beneficial?
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  Is it really what I call the waste of time?
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  Oh, no.
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  Sleep is just so important.
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  It has so many benefits.
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  One of the things that we say is that sleep is not just a cure for sleepiness.
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  I think that's the misconception that you're sleeping because the day is over.
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  So you're sleepy, you're tired, and that's all.
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  So yes, it helps with that.
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  It helps with restoration of your energy risk.
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  It helps with repair of sleep.
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  your body.
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  It also helps with just clearing your brain.
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  So to speak.
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  So this was something that was relatively more recent that they
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  found that when you sleep, you, or when you're awake, you actually have
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  deposits, waste products build up on the surface of your brain all day.
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  So in the night when you go to sleep, sleep, you actually get your brain
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  gets into the system of cleansing and washing off those deposits.
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  And now we do know that those deposits over time can accumulate and
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  cause conditions like Alzheimer's.
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  So that's just one really big one.
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  And then, you know, we talk about the immune benefits, right?
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  It helps boost your immune system, helps with your metabolism,
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  all the hormones in your body.
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  Many of them get regulated by sleep helps with curbing your appetite actually.
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  So pretty phenomenal.
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  And so sleep is not just something you do because you're sleepy
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  doesn't just kill sleepiness.
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  It is completely important for you to be able to live life to your fullest.
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  You know, I wish I had known this years ago, you know, I mentioned
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  that I thought sleep for those who.
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  You know, they didn't have anything better to do.
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  There were so many things to do.
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  And that came from, you know, growing up with a mom who was very industrious.
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  And she was like, okay, when you're up, make sure you have things doing,
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  don't just be sitting, doing nothing.
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  And that was either spoken or unspoken.
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  I don't even know.
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  Sometimes she said it, but it's just as understood.
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  Or at least that's the way I internalized it.
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  So I was always busy when the night came and it was quiet.
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  I thought, wow, this is even better.
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  Let me get things done.
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  So, you know, I really wish I had known that toxins that are building up in
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  our bodies and when we sleep, sleep helps, you know, get rid of those.
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  Wow.
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  Yeah.
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  So what got you into sleep medicine in the first place?
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  I mean, this is an interesting topic and then not too many
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  MDs I know who are doing this.
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  Yes, I know.
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  And I think it's a combination of my own personal journey.
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  So like you, you know, raised, born and raised in Nigeria, you
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  just, you were just at it nonstop.
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  You don't, there's no such thing as tired.
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  You push through, you hustle.
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  And then I went to medical school and that hustle culture was ingrained, right?
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  And so burning the candle on both ends and really studying and doing all the things
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  without really listening to my body.
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  And then, you know, fast forward residency.
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  See, even when I came to the US.
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  Mmm-hmm.
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  It was still a struggle for me to be able to settle down to sleep.
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  And then, you know, then the kids came and it's like, they didn't read the memo.
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  They just like, well, we're here.
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  So now you have someone who was already frazzled, I was already tired, I was
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  already anxious and sleep deprived, now lay that on top of having a newborn.
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  And around that same time, my dad passed away.
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  So it's a combination of things.
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  It was a combination of sleep deprivation.
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  But also insomnia which had two different things.
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  Sleep deprivation means like, Oh, you're hustling.
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  You don't want to sleep because you're doing all the things.
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  But insomnia is like, okay, I get into bed and then my mind is just racing.
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  I can't sleep.
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  So I had all of that and I just hit a wall.
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  And so navigating all that.
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  You know, which just really took some intentionality, prioritizing
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  my sleep, prioritizing my wellness, my mental health.
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  And then it was like, I got a new lease on life.
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  And so it was one of those things where you're like, okay,
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  I got to get more people to understand how important this is.
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  And really that was the beginning points of me saying, you know what,
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  I want to do this when I grow up.
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  Yeah.
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  And I think a lot of us can relate to what you're saying.
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  Yes, especially with the Nigerian background where you've got to be busy.
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  You've got and there's always so much to do.
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  There's studying to do.
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  And you better pass those exams.
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  So...
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  Yeah.
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  Nothing else.
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  It's that anxiety of if I fail, what's going to happen.
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  So exactly.
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  Yeah, exactly.
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  Exactly.
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  And it's a vicious cycle.
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  And the problem is after that, the exam, you pass the exams, you get
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  done, but now it's this ingrained.
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  And so it becomes the next thing, the next thing and the next thing.
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  And the next thing I need to get that paper in, I need to apply for that grant.
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  I need to get into, you know, that job opportunity.
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  I need to finish up what my boss tells me.
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  So there's always going to be something and it never ends.
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  It never ends.
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  All right, so you said that research has shown that, you know, what we
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  talked about the toxins build up and, you know, it affects our hormones
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  and it leads to, I mean, they're seeing the connection between lack
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  of sleep and neurological diseases and as we age, Alzheimer's, dementia.
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  Whoa.
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  So now that there's an awareness, what is being done to prevent us from, you know,
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  feeling that there's people like me for feeling that sleep is a waste of time.
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  It's I think there's been a lot, I would say, this is one of the
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  things, one of my friends says she says, sleep is having a moment.
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  Literally, we're hearing a lot more.
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  You probably are hearing out there.
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  There's a lot more sleep experts and sleep, you know, influencers and coaches.
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  And so there's a lot of attention focusing on educating people.
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  And I think that's important.
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  That's a first place to start.
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  It's just not enough though.
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  So it's one thing to understand and say, Oh my goodness.
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  Yes, sleep is important.
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  If I don't sleep well, I can have diabetes or I can develop Alzheimer's
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  over time, but then you have to also help connect that bridge to
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  say that, well, what can I do?
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  And so educating is one thing, but helping people set the intention to make the
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  right choices, the right decisions, and provide information for them to achieve
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  that is really the next thing to do.
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  Like, what are things that you can do practically?
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  Now you understand that sleep is important.
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  Now you understand sleep is non-negotiable.
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  What are practical steps that we can take to make sure that you are
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  getting the sleep that you need?
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  And so I think those are the next steps in that process.
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  But it's very important to understand the why, because some of those things
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  will involve shutting down your phone or turning your laptop off and so when
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  you understand the why, then you can set the healthy boundaries or at least take
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  a critical look and say, okay, where am I struggling and where do I need help?
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  Yes.
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  And you know, you said something about switching off your phone,
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  closing your laptop because blue screen, I think that's what it is.
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  It's real.
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  I used to that was another thing.
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  I used to be like, ha ha, you're right.
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  You're always going to have something, but it's true.
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  I even found out that, you know, that you fall asleep in front of your
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  laptop and you wake up and you switch it on and suddenly you're awake.
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  And there's a lot more, of course, now you're in front of your
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  laptop, there's a lot more things that you feel need to get done.
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  Yeah, exactly.
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  So, what are some, you explained, okay, we need to know why.
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  So what are some of the tips you can give us, you know, for optimal sleep pattern,
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  changing our sleep pattern, bad habits?
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  Yeah, yeah, I know different things.
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  So I would say the first step, I would say set boundaries, right?
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  It's okay to say no, make sleep a priority.
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  And so create a situation where sleep is not just the first
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  thing you're going to sacrifice.
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  And so that may look like saying, I'm going to set a curfew.
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  Like after X time, I have to put my phone away.
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  You may need to set a reminder on your phone, but these are
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  healthy boundaries to set.
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  Like you may need to put a, do not disturb, do not interrupt on your phone.
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  So I think that's really important.
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  And then the second thing I would say would be more like those practical
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  tips to optimize your sleep.
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  So having a consistent bedtime and wake up time and making sure that consistency
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  really goes through the weekend.
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  So you're not like waking up at 6 a.
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  m.
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  or 7 a.
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  m.
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  on the weekday and then on the weekend you're sleeping till noon.
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  That just kind of throws off your rhythms completely.
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  And it does more harm than good.
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  The second thing is, you know, bedtime routine, bedtime routines.
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  We usually have routines for our kids.
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  And then we, as adults are like, well, I'm just going to
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  plop into bed after a long day.
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  No, you need to create a routine, a routine serves as a buffer that both
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  separates that daytime run, run, run, rush to, you know, to the nighttime to say,
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  okay, we're transitioning now to relax.
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  So find a few activities, two or three calming activities, you know,
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  reading a book, listening to a podcast you know, taking a warm bath, all
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  those kinds of things will help your body wind down for better sleep.
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  And then E, that's so I'm using an acronym, it's called CREATE
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  that I made up, which I think is so helpful because now you're not
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  wondering what should I be doing?
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  So C is the consistency, R is the routine E is really about the environment.
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  So you want to look around and say, what are the things in my
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  environment that can disrupt sleep?
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  So you want your room to be cool, to be dark, and to be noise free.
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  And so that will promote healthy and deep sleep.
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  So that's E.
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  And then the next is A which is assign the bed for sleep.
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  And sleep only in bed.
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  So the bed should not be where you're doing all the things, eating, watching
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  TV, arguing with your spouse you know, doing your work, final emails.
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  No, you shouldn't be doing that.
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  Your bed needs to be a place where you're sleeping.
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  So that's A.
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  Then T stands for tackle technology.
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  So really having a device plan, right?
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  Technology is here to stay.
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  It's very beneficial.
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  Look at us now talking, you know, having a conversation,
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  but you have to set boundaries.
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  So avoiding electronic devices, I usually will say about 30 to 60
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  minutes before bed, because like you mentioned a lot of these devices
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  release the you know, blue light.
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  And that can suppress our brain's melatonin.
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  So it makes it really hard for us to wind down to sleep.
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  So you got to make sure you have a plan for that.
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  You know, sometimes you may need to charge your phone outside and get a
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  regular alarm clock or like put your phone on the other end of the room.
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  So you're not tempted.
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  You might say, Oh, I'm just going to look at the time.
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  And then suddenly you find yourself on TikTok, right?
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  So minimize those temptations by keeping your phone, making sure your
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  phone is not too close to your bed.
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  And then the final E is eliminate.
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  So things like, you know, are you drinking caffeine or alcohol or things
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  like that, which can fragment your sleep and make it hard for you to fall asleep.
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  So I think those are just really some of the top tips
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  that I suggest or I recommend.
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  for folks to to give a try.
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  And then, you know, if you're still having sleep struggles after that, then
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  you need to say, okay, maybe I need help.
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  I need to see a sleep specialist or something.
• 14:52
  Wow.
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  I love this acronym.
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  You might've seen me looking down.
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  Cause I went to get a piece of paper to write this down.
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  Create, create sleep.
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  In other words, I'm thinking consistency.
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  What was the R again?
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  I didn't write that down.
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  Oh, it's routine.
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  Routine.
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  Routine.
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  E was?
• 15:09
  The environment.
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  So your environment should be cool, should be dark and noise free.
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  Okay, noise free.
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  So like get a blackout curtain or something like that.
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  So yeah, so things like, yeah, blackout curtain to block out the light.
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  You could use a sleep mask.
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  For the noise, you can use an old ceiling fan, especially if you notice
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  there's a lot of external noises, you can use sleep, we call them sleep buds
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  or earplugs so that would just kind of mask any noises that might disrupt you.
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  And then you want it to be cool, like, because when you're
• 15:38
  hot, you don't sleep that well.
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  So making sure that your room temperature is as cool as possible is very important.
• 15:45
  I'm always freezing.
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  So I always do the reverse.
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  I have to make sure I'm warm.
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  Sometimes I put a heated blanket and everyone else is looking at me.
• 15:54
  For me, warm and comfy.
• 15:58
  Yeah.
• 15:59
  As long as you sleep well, that's the most important thing.
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  Most people tend to wake up when they're very hot, like
• 16:05
  their sleep becomes fragmented.
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  So you just need to pay attention to that.
• 16:10
  Okay.
• 16:11
  Ooh, I love that.
• 16:11
  So now with the melatonin, I know you mentioned that the
• 16:14
  blue light stops melatonin.
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  I I never knew about melatonin until I went, I traveled to China and of course
• 16:21
  there were 12, there was a 12 hour change in the time zone and I got there at mid
• 16:27
  day and of course it was midnight where I was coming from and I was with my
• 16:32
  husband and he was like, I'm going to bed because it's midnight where we came from.
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  And I'm like, it's bright.
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  That's the first time...
• 16:39
  no, it wasn't then.
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  It was like two days later.
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  My sister was like, of course, with the 12 hour difference.
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  I hope you took melatonin.
• 16:45
  I'm like, what is that?
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  But now I'm hearing some people saying melatonin is not, you know, applying
• 16:53
  it to whether some people roll it on that they know some people squeeze
• 16:56
  it in the mouth or they take the tabs and there's some downsides of that.
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  True.
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  Or am I, I mean, am I, okay.
• 17:03
  Is that a question that you can answer or am I, you know, making life
• 17:06
  hard for you by throwing out that?
• 17:08
  Oh, not at all.
• 17:09
  So melatonin is, our brain produces more than enough melatonin.
• 17:13
  Let's just put it that way.
• 17:15
  Very, very low dose.
• 17:16
  Melatonin just cues your body to say it's time for bed.
• 17:19
  That's all it does.
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  It's not like a sleep medication.
• 17:21
  Okay.
• 17:22
  But we also have over the counter melatonin.
• 17:24
  So that's probably what your sister was talking about.
• 17:26
  And there's some situations where melatonin is indicated.
• 17:29
  A jet lag, shift work.
• 17:31
  Essentially what happens is melatonin comes up in the evening as you're
• 17:35
  about to fall asleep just because it's responding to darkness.
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  But if you're at a place that is completely out of sync, meaning
• 17:42
  that you're supposed to be asleep yet it's bright out, then things
• 17:46
  are just all over the place.
• 17:47
  And so you may need melatonin.
• 17:49
  So I usually say the lower, the better you don't need high doses.
• 17:54
  People that tend to use high doses tend to report excessive
• 17:58
  sleepiness in the daytime.
• 17:59
  Some of them have nightmares and things like that.
• 18:02
  And I think the other piece that's really concerning is that it's not FDA
• 18:05
  approved yet in the U S so anybody can sell melatonin and put it in the stores.
• 18:13
  So as a result of that, there's such a wide variability in what you're getting.
• 18:18
  You might say, Oh, I'm only getting three milligrams of melatonin.
• 18:21
  We don't know that you might be getting zero.
• 18:23
  You might be getting like, you know, 55 milligrams.
• 18:26
  There's such a wide range.
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  So that really makes people concerned.
• 18:31
  And then there are also issues with, you know, sometimes, especially again, if
• 18:35
  you take higher doses, like nightmares, sleepwalking, some of those bedwetting.
• 18:41
  Some people say we see it more in kids, but still, you know,
• 18:44
  you just want to be careful.
• 18:45
  And this is where you always will recommend that, you know,
• 18:49
  seek help from your doctor.
• 18:51
  Don't just kind of start meds and, you know, and walk away.
• 18:55
  So I think that's really.
• 18:57
  What I would recommend.
• 19:00
  I needed to hear you, to talk with you because yeah, I am.
• 19:06
  Oh, I am a work in progress.
• 19:08
  A work in progress for sure, you know,
• 19:11
  yeah,
• 19:12
  Many a time, I've done quite a lot of things that you mentioned that set my do
• 19:18
  not disturb put that on my phone, a lot of alarms at 10 o'clock, 10pm that goes off.
• 19:24
  Oh, that's awesome.
• 19:26
  It would be better if I obeyed it.
• 19:28
  I think I'm like, okay, all right.
• 19:30
  I guess it would go off an hour ago.
• 19:32
  I think it's really choosing progress.
• 19:36
  And you know, honestly just looking.
• 19:37
  So that's the third.
• 19:38
  So the first thing I said was boundaries.
• 19:40
  The second thing is, you know, create healthy sleep habits.
• 19:43
  And then the third, I would say is what I usually will say, take
• 19:46
  stock and thanksgiving because just like everything, right.
• 19:52
  When you set an intention.
• 19:54
  You want to look back and say, how far am I from the goal?
• 19:59
  And then also you want to celebrate your wins.
• 20:01
  Like what has worked?
• 20:02
  Whoa.
• 20:02
  I, you know, I am consistent or I have a bedtime routine.
• 20:06
  We'll celebrate that and then say, okay, what are the next things that I
• 20:10
  would need to do to make sure that I continue to move the needle forward?
• 20:14
  So I think that's also something that's important to embrace.
• 20:17
  And and yeah, don't.
• 20:19
  It's not just about like, Oh, I didn't do it right.
• 20:21
  It's more like, but what did I do?
• 20:23
  Right.
• 20:23
  Even if I felt like I didn't do all of the things and almost like apply
• 20:27
  that 80, 20 rule where it's like, okay, if 80 percent of the time I'm
• 20:30
  doing a decent job, then that's good.
• 20:35
  I like you.
• 20:35
  You're encouraging.
• 20:37
  I love the fact that it says celebrate your wins.
• 20:40
  That's what I, instead of saying, oh, I didn't go to bed, the alarm went off at
• 20:44
  10, but I still went to bed at 11:15.
• 20:47
  So I'd say, okay, but at least I went to bed at 11:15 instead of 3:15 AM.
• 20:51
  Exactly.
• 20:52
  And it takes us to gratitude.
• 20:54
  Gratitude practice before bed has been scientifically proven
• 20:57
  to help with your sleep quality.
• 20:59
  So when you're thinking about, oh, what are some things I could do for my routine?
• 21:03
  Include gratitude, like just go through your day and say, okay, what
• 21:06
  are three things I'm thankful for?
• 21:08
  It doesn't have to be anything sophisticated.
• 21:12
  And it switches your brain to a different mode completely, which
• 21:15
  can actually help with sleep.
• 21:18
  That's another good tip.
• 21:20
  Oh my gosh, I love that.
• 21:22
  The gratitude one, because yeah, as you start remember and recounting,
• 21:27
  you know, the day has gone by even looking back for two or three weeks.
• 21:32
  There's so much to be thankful for.
• 21:35
  Absolutely.
• 21:36
  Yeah.
• 21:39
  Oh my gosh, we've been talking for over 20 minutes.
• 21:41
  So Any additional tips?
• 21:44
  I mean, I know I asked you that and you've given me some, I mean, you're
• 21:48
  giving me some hope, gratitude.
• 21:49
  I'm looking at my notes and celebrating my wins with a lot of gratitude, setting
• 21:54
  boundaries, and then of course the acronym, I've written that down, CREATE.
• 21:59
  Consistency, routine, environment, assignment, technology, watch that
• 22:08
  and eliminate any last tip to share.
• 22:14
  Because I know you're going to have a lot of questions from the audience and
• 22:18
  the more we have to write down now.
• 22:21
  Yeah.
• 22:22
  One big one I would say after all of that is this.
• 22:26
  There might be an underlying sleep disorder.
• 22:28
  So depending on what, where you are, you might have sleep apnea, you
• 22:31
  might have restless leg syndrome.
• 22:32
  These are just a few.
• 22:33
  So if you're doing all those things and sleep is still not getting
• 22:39
  better, you should speak with someone.
• 22:41
  And then also, if you have a child who's not sleeping, you want to make
• 22:45
  sure, because many times as women, especially we minimize the impact of our
• 22:49
  kids sleep, what it has on us, right?
• 22:51
  For me as well.
• 22:52
  If my kids were not sleeping.
• 22:54
  And because, and that became another reason why I was struggling.
• 22:59
  So finding ways to help your child also learn how to sleep, speak with
• 23:03
  a sleep with their doctor as well.
• 23:05
  I think really looking holistically and say what else could be going
• 23:08
  on, especially when you get to that point where you look back and you
• 23:11
  try to take stock and you're like, Oh my goodness, I'm still tired.
• 23:14
  I'm still waking up unrefreshed.
• 23:17
  Then you may need to say, okay, what are the next steps that I need to take?
• 23:20
  That's a good one.
• 23:21
  Yeah.
• 23:23
  So now that we have heard some, not everything that we need to hear because
• 23:27
  of time, how can people contact you if they want to know more about, you
• 23:31
  know, talk to a professional, a sleep professional like you, a sleep MD like
• 23:36
  you, where can they find you online?
• 23:38
  Yeah.
• 23:39
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:40
  And this has been such a joy.
• 23:41
  I have a few ways you can reach me.
• 23:44
  I'm on social media.
• 23:45
  I'm on Instagram, on Facebook, on LinkedIn, on social, on Instagram.
• 23:52
  I'm restfulsleepmd.
• 23:55
  And then on LinkedIn, I'm Dr.
• 23:56
  Funke Afolabi-Brown, so you can find me there.
• 24:00
  And then I have my website, it's restfulsleepmd.
• 24:03
  com.
• 24:05
  And on there, you'll get a lot.
• 24:06
  So a lot of what we're talking about today, practical
• 24:08
  tips, I have a blog there.
• 24:10
  You can get access to my YouTube channel on there.
• 24:13
  And then I have a book that's coming up.
• 24:15
  So if you're...
• 24:17
  Reminding you on that.
• 24:20
  Yeah.
• 24:21
  So if you're on there, you'll be able to find information
• 24:23
  about how to get the book.
• 24:25
  It's a book on sleep for children and their families.
• 24:28
  So I think it will be very applicable for most people.
• 24:31
  And yeah, so those are ways to, to contact me.
• 24:34
  And do you have a physical practice that, I mean, after all of that,
• 24:38
  they can actually come see you?
• 24:39
  Absolutely.
• 24:40
  Yes.
• 24:40
  So if you go to my website, you'll see the link that will take you
• 24:43
  to information about my practice.
• 24:45
  So if you're in Pennsylvania, if you're in California, if you're in New Jersey and
• 24:50
  Tennessee, I'm also licensed in Tennessee.
• 24:53
  You can make an appointment and that can be a virtual appointment or an
• 24:56
  in person appointment to see me.
• 24:59
  If you're not in those states, I would love for us to have a conversation because
• 25:02
  I also do have a coaching practice.
• 25:04
  So this way we can at least talk through what is getting in your way
• 25:08
  of sleep and then I can kind of guide you to know where else and what are
• 25:12
  the next steps you need to take.
• 25:15
  Thank you so much.
• 25:16
  And as I said to you at the beginning of the show that I have amazing
• 25:21
  guests, guests that will educate you, inspire you, empower you.
• 25:25
  And we've certainly gotten that from Dr.
• 25:27
  Funke Afolabi-Brown.
• 25:29
  And now I invite those of you who are listening, if you'd like to be a guest,
• 25:34
  please reach out to me on my website, which is chattingwiththeexperts.
• 25:37
  com.
• 25:38
  I'm on LinkedIn.
• 25:40
  I like LinkedIn.
• 25:41
  Just for Paula Okonneh there.
• 25:44
  I'm on Instagram at chat_experts_podcast and I'm on Facebook and I always
• 25:52
  hesitate because Facebook is a place that I am getting acquainted with.
• 25:57
  Not because it hasn't been there, not because it's new, but it's just me.
• 26:02
  Ah, I'm not too much of a Facebook person, but I'm working on it.
• 26:06
  And so thank you so much, so much, so much Dr.
• 26:10
  Funke.
• 26:11
  I know you, you'll have a lot of questions to answer because everybody needs sleep.
• 26:15
  That's one thing that we all do, we sleep.
• 26:17
  Even if it's for an hour, like I used to be, or more, we all sleep.
• 26:25
  Yeah.
• 26:25
  So much for coming on Chatting with the Experts.
• 26:29
  Thank you so much.
• 26:31
  Thanks for having me.