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An Interview with Kathryn Foxfield · This Dad Reads

• Jason: Welcome back to This Dad Reads. I'm your host, Jason, and today I am joined by best-selling YA author behind suspenseful, twist-filled novels like Good Girls Die First, and This Is Not the Real World. her latest book, Our Wicked Gifts, blends fantasy and mystery into a story about secrets, magic, and the dangerous cost of power. I'm excited to have her on the show to talk about her new book. The writing process and everything in between. It's Katherine Foxfield. Welcome to the show, Katherine. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I am really happy to be here. Jason: So glad to have you. I love having a guest from across the pond. Love dan dealing with, you know, time zones and all of those things. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah. Must be early for you. Jason: So it is relatively early. It's 11 a.m. So it's not not too bad. I still see the sun in in your background, so it's okay, Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, it's about seven o'clock, so it's still nice. Jason: great. We both have sunlight then. That's nice. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): This Jason: So thank you again for being here. I just want to kind of ask you in general, like, how are you doing? Like how is life for you these days? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): It's pretty good actually. I feel like I'm living the dream getting to be a writer and getting to sort of turn my hobby into an actual career. I've I've been doing it for about sort of five years now, but it still feels really new and exciting. So yeah, I'm really happy. Jason: Well, that's awesome. And before we started recording, we were talking about our kids. So you are a mother as well, so we have that in common. what is what is your family how is family life treating you these days? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): It's pretty good. It's the summer holidays now from school, so Jason: Yes. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I've got my twelve year old and my six year old at home all the time and so we're outside having lots of adventures and I'm not doing very much writing, but that's okay. Jason: That's usually how it goes too. Yeah. We have same situation over here. So yes, la I am out of the out of the house for work most days. And so but still trying to figure out how do we get everything done when there's kids in the house. And so yep. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, it's just chaos, isn't it? You just have to live in chaos and you know, one day they'll leave home and it will be quiet and I'll miss them. Jason: Yeah. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): So Jason: Just lean into the chaos for now. That's what we try to do sometimes, you know. And all Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Definitely. Jason: those cleanliness and all the things that you wish would be, you know, true will someday be true. But like you said, then it'll be a lot quieter, so it'll be just different. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yes. Jason: so I would love to just jump right in and start chatting about all things our wicked gifts, your latest release. So it's been almost it's been right around a month since it came out. So how are you feeling about everything? I'm sure it's like such an exciting thing to have a new book out in the world. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, it is really exciting because this is my first kind of fantasy book. In the past, I've written thrillers and suspense and kind of lent into the horror of it. And this is the first time I've been able to kind of unleash the fantasy side of me and put in a bit of magic as well as all the murder that I think I'm known the best for. So it's Jason: All right. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): been really exciting to get this out into the world. Jason: Are you a big fantasy reader too? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, I do. I mean, I read anything and everything. So I think fantasy has a sort of special place in my heart because it's what I started out writing when I decided I wanted to become a YA author. And there's just so much potential with fantasy. You can just do anything you want and you can write books that are real a real escape from the real world where you don't know what's gonna happen and you can kind of anything can happen. And I think it's that sort of sense of wonder that I love about fantasy, the kind of sort of you get to go into a new world and experience something completely different from the mundane world that we all live in. Jason: Sure. Well, I'm really curious to know be you and you saying that, like, was fantasy kind of at the core of where you wanted to start with this book? Or were you kind of like, you know, I like writing mysteries and thrillers, and so I wanna, you know, maybe I can tack on some fantasy to that. But like, so what kind of genre kind of led for you when you were like crafting this book? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I think I wanted to change from the kind of thrillers where I was writing teenagers murdering each other and being horrible people. So I knew I wanted to do something with fantasy. And the idea of this book came from watching the TV show Succession, which I loved. I Jason: Mm. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): love the kind of everyone's a villain and everyone's a terrible person. I kind of really think that's fun to watch and read, maybe not to live in real life. and so I came up with this idea that I just wanted to write a book that was basically succession but with magic and murder. And that's how I pitched it to my agent and how we ended up pitching it to publishers when we tried to sell the book. And so that was kind of where I came to it from. And then I just wrote whatever kind of came to my mind and went went a bit wild with it. So it was a lot of fun to talk about. Jason: That's so fun. I'm really curious if there I mean you mentioned Succession, which obviously is a huge inspiration here, but were there any other like real life families or other fictional families that you kind of like drew inspiration from? I got a lot of like knives out vibes, at least from like just the stor the unraveling of the story from here. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yes, definite knives out vibes. I also really liked the film Saltburn, if you saw that. It's kind Jason: Okay. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): of like an English country house and terrible rich people. And Jason: Yes. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I think I've always been really dri drawn to kind of toxic family stories because I love a villain and I also love a villain who's hiding in plain sight. Like, I mean serial Jason: Mm. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): killers, you kind of know what you're getting, but when it's your mother or your sister or your brother who is like the bad guy in the story, you kind of don't expect it because you've you've put them up on a pedestal and you sort of said, family is everything, and then they turn out to be terrible people. so I've always really loved evil mothers in particular in stories. And one of my favourites is from Tangled, Mother Gothel from the animation. Jason: Yes. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I think she's brilliant because she's all sort of smiles to her daughter in sort of face to face. And then obviously she's the bad guy. So I kind of want it to Jason: Well, we don't have to go there, but I hope that's not steeped in any like real life drama. So if it is, I'm sorry. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): gosh, no. I mean, I think we all have moments from when we're kids where we feel like our family don't understand us. And so I put a bit of that into the book myself because I know what that feels like, but then made up everything else. Like my real family did not sell their souls to the devil. We're all very normal. I know, I kind of Yeah. I remember reading Jason: Okay, good good to know. Maybe we should just put that out there just in case any family members are listening. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): one book, what was it? It was one of Olive Blake's books, I think, which was also kind of succession vibes. And I think she dedicates it to her family, LOL at the start. Obviously Jason: Okay. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I I didn't d did not dedicate this to my family. I thought that would be a bit much. Jason: I mean, but they know. They're they are the ones on the inside who know the know the real reality of you. That it's not based on them, you know. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): No. Thank God. Jason: Are you also like I in you just saying that are you like a true crime person too? 'Cause I'm a huge true crime watcher, reader, lover. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, I I always have very kind of mixed feelings about true crime because I absolutely love it. And I've been watching all these programmes like the worst ex ever or the the worst neighbours ever at the moment. And I find it fascinating as it's like a little window into like the lives of people who don't follow any of the like rules that the rest of us kind of stick to. But at the same time, true crime does make me a bit sad and I have sort Jason: Yeah. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): of mixed feelings about whether it's a bit voyeuristic to be sort of profiting off someone else's pain. So I do prefer fiction where I can be like, Jason: Okay. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): This is not real but, you know. Jason: I mean f totally fair. Yeah, there's definitely like some sort of unbelievable element when it's like real people. But I think that's so tell it's so good to like draw from like the real human experience of when you're crafting something fictional too, because the way you said it, like you don't really I I feel like the hard reality of true crime is like, wow, you never really know someone. You you might not even know the person really well that you live with or that you love. And so I think that's a great thing to like pull into fiction to like fictionalize, right? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, definitely. And I mean, I will t sort of take things I've heard or seen in real life and sort of take them to their extreme in the book as a way to kind of explore like why people behave like this and what the implications of people behaving like this are. And I think that's one of the great things about fiction is that you can talk about real things and important things, but in a way that feels safe to the people who are reading it, 'cause it's not real. Jason: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's what I think is so good about having a fantastical element, right? Because then you can kind of really suspend your disbelief in that regard. So that's that's smart. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, definitely. Jason: so in this book, it's all about the winter family. So they're right here front and center on the cover. and basically they have this magical, these gifts that come with like a terrible price, right? So I'm just curious if you were more interested in exploring like These magical fantastical powers, or were you more interested in kind of like the consequences and like what people are willing to sacrifice when it comes to like gifts? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, I think I mean I love the magic and I loved coming up with all of all of the gifts that these this family has. But the thing I really wanted to kind of talk about was how people who kind of have these gifts, it comes with a I mean, to quote Spider-Man, it comes with a big responsibility. with the characters in this book, they're not equipped to handle this kind of power and they've they've received it when they don't deserve it and when they're they've done nothing to earn it, and then they use it to just kind of perpetuate their own power and their own success and don't use it for anything good. And I think one of the big themes of the book is basically power corrupts and power in the wrong hands is a really bad thing. And it sort of ends up tearing this whole family apart because they just can't really cope with it. Jason: And front and center is Sicily, who I would, you know, argue is kind of the you know protagonist. The bulk of the story revolves around her and her perspective. And her gift in particular is like she gets to like find, she can figure out secrets of people, right? And so she kind of goes into this dark realm and kind of like figure out what people are hiding. So at and at first, I really like how you kind of like frame it as like, okay, she kind of doesn't really think it's that impressive, or like maybe you're setting the readers up to think, like, well, it's not really that good of a gift, quote unquote. But then as the story unravels, like she ends up kind of becoming the key to like figuring everything out. So was that kind of your way of like saying that we kind of undervalue our own strength sometimes? Or I'm just really curious to know about that. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, so where that came from was that Cicely is very much the black sheep of her family and they don't think she's going to really amount to anything because she just doesn't fit in and she doesn't share the sort of family's sort of single-minded determination to do whatever it takes to stay in power and to be successful. And so they've sort of talked her down, particularly her mother, for her entire life and said, Well, you know what, you don't really have what it takes. You're not really a winter, you you're not good enough to sort of be one of us. And so at the start of the book, she sort of believes this. She thinks that her gift isn't much use. And in the past, it has led her into a lot of trouble where she's ended up finding out secrets that have just kind of got her to be a bit unpopular with her family members rather than helping her actually use those secrets to sort of further her own wants in the world. And by the end of the book, she's learnt much more to use this gift to be a bit selfish in a way and to sort of use it to get what she wants. And yeah, that's kind of her character arc where she's sort of learning to stand up for herself and learning to be who she wants to be and to use her gift to get power. Jason: I was like taking this to such another like personal deep spot. Cause personally right now I feel like I work in like a corporate America world and I feel like so often the people who just play by the rules are the ones who are rewarded. But maybe that's at the cost of your own desires or your own you maybe sacrifice something to just for to advance in your career or something like that. But maybe you're really kind of hurting your own personal self or you're not really doing what's best for you. So I really like that you said that because in an odd way, sometimes being selfish is better for you. You have to like do what's best for you sometimes to be healthy and to be your best version of yourself. So like I like you just saying that right now really made me think like, wow, that's like a really good life lesson sometimes. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Is I think all of us need to learn to put ourselves first. And then if there's a left enough left of us to go around, then that is when we can start doing things for other people. But I think it is important to be true to yourself and to kind of put yourself first, even when that means some people end up calling you selfish. And usually the ones who call you selfish are the ones who are gaining from you not putting yourself first. So yeah. Jason: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's like it as a world, like everybody's w everybody acts like that. And so I'm not saying that's like necessarily the right thing. Like I think there is something to be said about, you know, helping supporting your community. Obviously, we are both parents supporting a family and like having that be part of who you are. But I think that can also inform like you you could be selfish for your family. You can be selfish for things that are important to you. It doesn't always have to just serve you by yourself. So I think that's a really important message. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, it's about working out what's important to you and then putting as much as your of your energy as you can spare into that or you sort of Jason: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that's so smart. I love it. I'm curious too. You mentioned obviously Sicily is very much the black sheep of the family. It's a very good POV, especially for like a YA kind of book to be in. Was that always the plan for you to have like a central character who was kind of like the odd one out, or did that kind of just arise as you were kind of crafting the story? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): It it's funny, every time I write a book, I say to myself, I'm gonna write a book about something completely different and I'm not gonna write the same book I've always written. And then somehow all my books end up becoming about someone who feels like someone else is trying to force them into a box that they're not sure they fit in, and then the whole character arc is about them learning to be true to themselves and admit who they really are. And I think I need to just lean into that and accept that every book I write is probably gonna have this same overall message. Jason: Ha ha ha. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): It's something that means a lot to me. So I think it was inevitable that Cicely would end up being this kind of character. Jason: I mean it works. Like I sometimes tropes are tropes for a reason and I feel like it just depends on how you what happens around them and the story that comes out of it. I think it I love that because it really endears readers and it gives someone like someone to latch on to and they feel super they feel more relatable to me than the people who are the other characters, you know. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, definitely. Jason: So I want to talk a little bit about, I don't want to get too much into spoilers today, but there's a character named Soren in here, and he Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Mm-hmm. Jason: is someone who immediately feels like readers shouldn't completely trust, right? Like he's kind of framed as a character who like there we don't really know what's going on. We know what happens happened to him at one point in the story, but he kind of reappears and obviously he's kind of set up as kind of to be a potential villain. So how difficult is it for you to kind of write a character who's kind of like s sym suspicious but also sympathetic and maybe like a little bit romantic. Like is that fun for you to like kind of take readers on a journey of a character who you don't really know what's going on? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): He was a really fun character to what to write, and he was one of the hardest ones to write to get that balance between you want him to be have a good side, but also this really dark, mysterious, potentially evil side. And so we went through various drafts of the book trying to get him right. And something I love in books is really tropey bad guy. love interests, you know, the the kind of guy who follows has smoke following him as he walks and he's a bit he growls everything he says and he's really hot but also a bit dangerous. And I kind of wanted to play with that sort of bad boy idea in the book and kind of have him start out being quite a sort of predictable, well, you know, you know he's hot, but he's also really evil and maybe you shouldn't be sort of fluttering your eyelashes at him. And then as the book goes along you find out he does have a little bit more depth to him and he has another side Jason: Yeah. Well, and back to kind of like those magical gifts that all the winter family has. Like I'm really curious about did you have just kind of like a list of gifts that you knew you wanted to write about and then kind of went and matched them up with the characters, or did you have a character in mind with the magic? Like how did you kind of work all that out? Because there's quite a few characters here with and quite a few different gifts. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): It was, I mean, my writing process tends to be quite chaotic. I'll write something and then once I've written it, I'll realise a bit more what I actually wanted to write, and then I'll go back and Jason: Mm. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): delete it and do it all over again. And it takes me several rewrites to get to the point where I'm like, that's what I intended all along. And suddenly it becomes obvious. And I'm like, why didn't I get that right from the start? So with Jason: Ha ha. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): the gifts, I had a few ideas. And from the start, the gifts were always things that were gonna give this family power over other people, like the ability to kind of say something and have someone change their thoughts based on what you say, for example. but they changed as I was writing and I would be the only one that was fixed was Cicely and I wanted her to have this gift for finding things because I mean she's always looking for something and the one thing she can't find is the one is the one thing she wants the most, which is like a loving family and all of that. But everyone else changed it yeah, right up until the end. Jason: Well, and I'm curious too, like, if you were a par a member of the Winter family and you found yourself unwillingly or not n selling your soul to the devil, what power would you want to have? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): It's an interesting question, isn't it? Like, what power would I want? I mean, I don't think I am quite as evil as the Winter family, and I'm not sure I would want a power that allows me to kind of control others. But I think I would choose to have some kind of power that let me absorb knowledge, and so I could learn Jason: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): everything there is to learn, and I'd I'd just become this really nerdy little person who knows a bit about everything. I think I'd have great fun doing that. I'm not sure what use it would be, but I would I would like it. Because I think there's always so many things to learn and I would love to be able to fit them all in my head and I just don't have room. Jason: Well, as we record, like literally the other side of my camera is my Lord of the Ring shelf. So I'm like, you would be Galadriel. Like you would be the smartest person who just knows everything about the universe. And for better or worse, like you might know even of some of the future. So anyway, maybe maybe that would be I could see that. I could see that. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I could imagine myself in a sort of wizard's robes or something, growing a really Jason: Yeah, yeah. As you were talking, I'm just gonna answer my own question because I kind of really related to Sebastian in here, who's one of the cousins, Cicely's cousins, and he has like an artistic gift. And I am an artistic person, so like I think I would do something like creative, like I would be able to Again, I I agree with you. I don't know if I'd want to do something that I could like because I don't know if I'd wanna know stuff about like what people know. Like I don't know, I think I want to Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah. Jason: know people's secrets. I don't think I want to know like what people's intentions are, but Maybe something that would I like Sebastian's gift because it's like he shows their true in his art it kind of gets to the person's true essence. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah. Jason: or maybe something that just would make me not be as procrastinating as I am. Something that would make me do the stuff that I know that I need to go do. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): No, that would be amazing, wouldn't it? I was trying to fill in my tax return earlier and I was like, if I could have some magical gift where I didn't have to do my taxes, that would be great. Jason: drawing from your previous experience of writing mainly thrillers, like what kind of informed the way you crafted this story that obviously has a lot of fantastical elements, but like what elements of like your skill as a thriller writer did you bring to the story to help you kind of craft and unravel like where the story goes? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Often when I'm writing I'll sort of have specific points that I'm aiming for and it's just a way for me to try and keep the book into some sort of form that will eventually make sense. And so I'll sort of plan in advance the big events, like who's going to be murdered and roughly when. And it does change when I write, but I'll have those points to work towards, like this will be the point where so and so gets shoved in a wood chipper or whatever. That doesn't happen in this try and think something Jason: Yeah. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): that won't give away spoilers. and so I will I'll do that and then I will sort of work towards putting in clues and red herrings that will lead up to that point. So it feels like you're heading towards something. It's not just being thrown at you. And I find that really works with all of the books I write, which all have like a murder mystery element to kind of keep me on track, if that makes sense. But that's about as far as I go when it comes to plotting, actually. It's a lot a lot of it is going back and rewriting and thinking, how can I sort of signpost this thing that's going to happen in a few days? chapters time and how can I make this character look guilty at this point? And I'll go and add that after I've written the the book. Jason: curious too about the balance, right? 'Cause I feel like you do a really good job of balancing like fantasy, mystery, thriller, like and 'cause fantasy readers have like a certain expectation, thriller readers have certain expectations. Like w what was that hard to kind of keep that all in balance or was it just like so much fun? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I mean, I just really wrote what I wanted and whether or not fantasy readers, thriller readers, murder mystery readers will pick it up and be like, I'm not sure about this. I I don't know. I think my approach to all the books I write is to write a book that works for me first and foremost. And then my editors try to get it into some sort of form that other people will want to read as well. But I try not to sort of follow sort of structures that other people have done too much because I I kind of want to be original and I want to be surprising. Jason: Well, that's a great mantra to follow because I feel like I I don't think j I think sometimes genre does like a disservice to like books and to people. And like I feel like so many people want to like I read this or like if you like this, you should read this. But like I'm like you, I read everything. So to me, a genre it can be a mixed bag, it can but it's all about just the way that the story unfolds and like the characters. And so I think that you do an excellent job here, like of kind of defying genre as it were. Like you don't obviously you have to talk around about those things to when you're talking about your book, but I just want to give you kudos because I feel like anyone who just likes a good mystery and a good story, like would definitely enjoy this. Like you don't have to like fantasy or have not like thrillers to pick it up and enjoy it. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Thanks so much. That's really nice of you to see. I think one of the Jason: Ha ha. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): great things about writing YA is that the sort of the boundaries between different genres aren't as fixed. Like obviously, if you write adult romance, people are going to expect a certain kind of story. You're going to have your meat cute, you're going to have your moment where everything goes wrong. They're going to get there happily ever after. And if you deviate from that, then you're going to have a lot of very angry romance fans saying no, but Jason: Right. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I feel like in YA, You get to take a bit of everything and everything gets shelved together as well. So it's n you're not a sort of restricted. You don't have to be a romance writer or a thriller writer. You kind of get to do a bit of everything. Jason: Yeah. What is it too about you for YA? I I feel like sometimes I am a huge proponent of like, again, read everything, read anything. And like I feel like YA is just one of those things where I feel like people can't mentally get over, like, well, that's not for me. Like that's for young readers. But we are both here living our adult lives. You're writing YA books. I'm reading YA books. Like, I'm I'm just curious. I want to hear your take on like why do you love writing YA? And why do you love YA so much? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, I mean I've always read YA and I'm now not a YA person anymore. I don't think I can call myself a young adult anymore, unfortunately. but I I love how fast paced YA has to be. You can't sort of mess around, you know the story's gonna get straight in there and do something exciting. But when I when it comes to writing, I don't specifically say to myself, All right, I'm now gonna write a book for teenagers and for children. Jason: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I just write a book that I would want to read and I make sure it does have a kind of theme that would be relevant to teenagers, such as working out who you are and who you want to be in the world. But other than that, I don't sort of say, well, I can't talk about this because this is for children. I can't do that Jason: Mm. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): because I'm not writing for adults. I just write what I think is a good book or that I hope other people will want to read. And it just happens that the books I write fit well into the YA sort of category. And that's how I've ended up being a YA writer and I think it's great being able to write for young people who haven't decided who they are in the world and who still have sort of hope for the future and aren't stuck stuck in their ways. I mean, plenty of us adults aren't stuck in our ways either. But yeah, it's a really great category to Jason: And I think too as a reader, like I feel like you can always relate to that. Like I feel like the the YA age range, like being in your late teens, early twenties is such a formative time that I feel like no matter what age you are now, I feel like that's a time you can always think back to your own experience and relate to that. I feel like just because you're not in that age range doesn't mean that you can't it's still like a human experience. And so that's why I I love reading YA for some a lot of the same reasons you just mentioned. But I feel like sometimes like you you remember being that age, like even if you're not that age anymore, like You're not gonna forget your young adult years, you know. Yeah. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah. no, it was painful at times. I think that's I think YA writers end up becoming writers because we want to write the books that we would have wanted to read when we were teenagers. Jason: Yes. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): And it's kind of like a cheaper way of having therapy. You get to put all of those feelings into a book and maybe there'll be there'll be a point where I'm like, Okay, I've done that, I'm over that, I'm gonna write books for adults now, but I haven't got there yet. Jason: Okay. I was gonna ask that in a little while. So is that something that you want to do? Like I mean, obviously I feel like you're pretty boundless in terms of your your your reading or your writing. So is that something you want to do at some point? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, I'd love to. There's just never enough time to actually write all of the books I want to write. So I'm trying to sort of carve out a career writing YA and then if I'm lucky enough to find some time in the future when my kids leave me alone, then I would love to write an adult horror because I think that's where my heart is, the horror. And I get I think you get to do whatever you want when you're writing adult, don't you? So Jason: Yeah. that's fun. Okay, okay. I'm on board. I I'll be I'll be watching from from afar, from across the pond to see where your writing journey takes you. I would be on board with that. That sounds so fun. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Awesome. Jason: I it's hard to talk a lot more about plot in terms of spoilers, but I am curious because I feel like this book was so like cinematic in nature, and you mentioned obviously succession, and I was like envisioning knives out just the way the story unravels. But if our wicked gifts were ever adapted for like live action in some capacity, is there any actor who you would love to see play like maybe Sicily and Soren? Like, do you have any dream Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): that's that's a good Jason: Fan casting. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): good question actually. I don't I don't think I have anyone specific I'd choose just because I think if if I was lucky enough to have it turned into a film I would love for some new sort of tale to come up and I find it hard when I've seen someone in one programme to be like, they'll be fine in this one. I think for the mother in this book, Allegra, I love Rosamond Pike, who was in Saltburn. I think she's amazing, but Maybe the character would be a little bit too similar. Rich S billionaire. Jason: I do say for the cover art of her, I'm gett it's getting I'm getting Kim Catrol from Sex in the City. Like that's what the the mother she look Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, actually looking at it now she does actually have that sort of vibe. Maybe, maybe that could work, yeah. Jason: She's pretty evil. Just put a little, you know, English accent on her and we're good to go. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): No, I reckon she could do it. Jason: I, in all honesty too, Catherine, like I didn't know that you were like English or anything, but I I loved how I can immediately tell. I was like, I think I should be like saying their lines with an English accent. I could just tell, like it feels so English, even though if you just pick it up, you wouldn't know. But I love how British this book is too. So like, was that a part of obviously that's part of who you are? but is that something you're hoping like we just will take away from too? And obviously they try it, it becomes clear that they're based there eventually, but at the start I didn't know that. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah. I think there's something really special about a family of sort of British aristocrats or rich British rich people who've had all of this power for generations and live in this big posh house where they've kind of got all of this history and framed portraits of all their ancestors. I really kind of love that as a as an aesthetic, I suppose. Jason: Mm. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): And when it came to writing it, I think sometimes UK authors we can feel like, well, should we be setting our book in America so that 'Cause America's obviously a bigger market when it comes to selling books, like will we sell more books? And I didn't really want to sort of go there because I think people will instantly be able to tell that I'm not American and it just won't work. And so it was quite important to me that when we came to edit it for the US market, we weren't sort of taking out all of the Englishy bits and trying to Americanize it because it just wouldn't work. So we changed some of the words, you know, like I think mobile phone becomes cell phone or whatever, but it's just small little language things so that it doesn't trip people up gosh and realize and stuff like that. I'm like, is it a Z is it an S I I don't know. So yeah I'm just really Jason: Yeah. The way you spell favorite, you know. Yeah. Putting in the Z, I'm sorry. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): confused by all of that. But I just I hand it in with the English spelling and then someone Jason: Yes. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): else goes through and is like, I'm not gonna change all of this. Yeah. Jason: We're gonna Americanize some of these things. I also like I love that we're just getting into a point where books are just getting released with sprayed edges. So like it's just so fun Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): And you look at it Jason: and like the art is so good. And so I feel like it's such like a satisfying, like just overall book experience. so congrats on that. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Thank you. I feel so lucky that I got such beautiful cover art. I got got an artist who drew it and they gave me like the little sprayed edges, like you said. And it's such a beautiful book. So yeah, I'm really happy with that. Jason: so I'm really curious to know, like, what is what are you reading right now? Like I love talking about books that I'm currently reading and I love to like recommend books, but like are there have there been anything, any books that you've been enjoying lately that you would like to talk about? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): So I recently what have I recently read? I read Fruit Fly by Josh Josh Silver, who's another Jason: Okay. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): UK author, and his book it's an adult book and it just came out in America and it's absolutely amazing. So I think everyone should go and read that. It's brilliant if you've not seen it. Jason: Did he write wait, what was I think I read his Y8. He has like a duology, right? Is Yes I read that. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, so Happy Head was his first one and it's brilliant. So yeah, definitely check out Jason: Good to know. Okay, I'm gonna go I'm gonna literally write that down 'cause I really like the those books. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): It's very dark, but you could probably guess that from his YAs. So And I Jason: That's fine. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): what else have I read? Cynthia Murphy, who's one of my friends, has a book called Paint Me Like Your Dead Girls, coming out about now actually. It might have been out yesterday, I think. I'm not sure, but that is brilliant. That's all if you're into art and creativity, then that's a good one because it's about a kind of serial killer artist. Jason: I think I ran across that somewhere on socials. I'm like, that is an amazing title. Like that title alone is brilliant. Why didn't you think of that yourself? I know, right? That's an awesome title. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I know. When I saw that I was like I was so jealous of that. Yeah. Jason: I was actually tandem listening to the audiobook of this while I was reading it too. So l I wanna know like what was your experience like? Like, did you love hearing your characters' voices come to life? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): It is always really cool to get an audiobook edition and they sometimes send me like little clips of the different audio narrators so I can kind of put in my opinion on what one would be best. And it is always really lovely to hear your book sort of spoken and read out. So yeah. I've not listened to Jason: That's so fun. And I love to just sorry, I love that the fact that they put that out too, 'cause so many people love audiobooks, obviously, and everybody reads stories differently. So I was really glad to see that that that was a production. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Yeah, it's it's another way of reaching readers or people who love stories and love books, isn't it? So as as someone with a dyslexic kid, I think any kind of way of getting people into books and into stories is a really great thing. Jason: Definitely. Well, I would love to talk about that too because I it's really important to me kinda to kind of raise kids who who maybe if they're never gonna be as avid readers as I am, but at least kind of respect like books and like, you know, I I always want to encourage them to read. So like is that something that you do with your family? And I'm curious to know like what are some books that your family really loves? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I I'm always trying to encourage my 12 year old to read and they're not a massive fan of the reading side of things, but they love books. So we buy a lot of graphic novels to try and get them interested in books. They they've really just got into the Alice Ossaman Heartstopper books at the moment, which are Jason: okay. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): really and they're so much fun and they're such a lovely story with lovely people. So I'm really happy they're getting into that. And then my little kid who is six, he's just learning to read at the moment, so he's on these kind of short books from school, but we read a lot to him and he's he's absolutely obsessed with pigeons at the moment. So we've been reading a lot of books involving pigeons, which, you know, I never thought I'd be here, but here I am. Jason: Ha ha ha. well Catherine, congrats again on the book. I think that it's a great summer into the fall read. if people are interested in interacting with you, are there any opportunities coming up where you can maybe see readers, sign books? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): I'm not doing any events in the US, unfortunately. I am doing a few in the UK. I've got one coming up next week actually in London, if anyone wants to kind of come and meet me and say hello. and then I'm also on social media from time to time, if Jason: Excellent. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): anyone wants to say hello. Jason: I was gonna say, yeah, where can people find and interact with you online? Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): So I'm mostly on Instagram as Catherine Foxfield, I believe. Jason: Excellent. And I will definitely link all your socials and any web related things in the notes of this episode if you're interested. Guys, I cannot recommend this book enough. It was so fun. if you love are just a reader in general, like I think anyone will like it, any age, any well, I mean, not young readers, but any gender, any book type, it's so much fun. Catherine, thank you so much for carving out some time to talk to me today. I wish you nothing but the best, and I hope this isn't the last time that we get to chat. Kathryn Foxfield (she/her): Thank you so much. It's been lovely talking to you.