Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #355: Rik Moore-Anderson (SC) District 5 XC | Building a Legacy

Transcript

#355: Rik Moore-Anderson (SC) District 5 XC | Building a Legacy · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

0:00
Hey guys, thanks for being here today.
0:02
Hey, real quick before we get on with the show, which is going to
0:04
be absolutely amazing. You're going to love this one.
0:06
Thanks for being here. Want to let you know about this
0:08
really amazing promo, this amazing sale that we're doing
0:12
for the months of March and April.
0:14
How would you like to get 10 free vaulting poles?
0:18
That's crazy, right? All you have to do is buy one
0:20
pole vault pit and weather cover or a value pack, etcetera.
0:23
But you need to buy a pole vault pit and you'll get 10 free pacer
0:26
vaulting poles. That is an amazing deal.
0:29
Contact your local, your preferred Gill dealer right now.
0:32
They've got all the details, but I don't want you to miss this.
0:34
So I had to come in real quick before we started the show and
0:37
let you know about this. So enough of my yammering.
0:39
Let's get on with today's guest. You're listening to the Gill
0:43
Athletics Connections podcast with host Mike Cunningham.
0:50
Track and field world, UNL tuned in to our humble servant Mike
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Cunningham for another extraordinary message or Gil
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Athletics. Connections all right, you're
1:02
back here on the Gil Athletics Connections podcast.
1:04
You know, I start every episode the same I say the word all
1:08
right for some reason, which bugs me when I go back and
1:10
listen to it during editing and all that kind of good stuff.
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But it's me, Mike Cunningham, national business development
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manager for Gil Athletics and the host of the Gil connections
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podcast. If this is your first time press
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and play. Thank you.
1:21
Thanks for being here. We're grateful that you picked
1:23
today's guest to be your first one.
1:24
It's going to be a lot of fun. I've known today's guest for a
1:27
while, so I feel like there's gonna be a lot of laughing going
1:30
on. And if there's not, then, well,
1:31
maybe we're not as good friends as I think I am, and I'll go see
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my psychiatrist and we'll all figure it out one way or the
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other. If you are not your first time,
1:39
if you've been here before many times, thank you so much, man.
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Again, I'm just so humbled when I see our daily and weekly and
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these amazing human beings who choose to be track and field
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coaches. And so for that, I'm completely
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grateful and glad you are here today.
1:59
So Speaking of today, you've already seen who it is.
2:01
There's no surprises here, right?
2:03
I titled these things with a guest name.
2:05
I've known this guy for well, ever since I've been to Gil
2:07
actually, lots of different aspects.
2:10
He's been involved in track and field and really might be I
2:13
don't know. I don't know if this is fair or
2:14
not. We'll figure it out.
2:15
Actually, there might be another guy, but we'll figure it out.
2:17
Might be one of the guys. There's like the most
2:18
interesting guy in track and field.
2:20
He's done so many different things and I'm pumped to share
2:23
those things and learn along with you.
2:24
So here, help me welcome from Anderson, SC from the Anderson
2:28
District 5 cross country course, the wise, the wonderful Mr. Rick
2:31
Moore. Rick, how are?
2:32
You. Hello, Mike.
2:33
How are you buddy? I'm doing good, man.
2:36
I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a little warmer.
2:38
It's been about 10° for the past few days.
2:41
Now it's up to about 30, which feels like, you know, a little
2:44
bit like summer actually feels really nice here.
2:46
So I'm doing OK. Yeah, well, we're, we're hitting
2:49
sixty in South Carolina today. So had a little rain this
2:53
morning and clouds, but it's been a nice day.
2:56
How low did it get this one? Cause a lot of people got some
2:58
pretty cold temperatures this morning.
3:01
Lowest I lowest I saw at my house was 12.
3:05
Oh hey, that's cold. Cold down there.
3:06
So, so you know, we had some, we had several days.
3:09
We're in the teens, several mornings in the teens.
3:11
So you know, and then we had we had sleet one weekend and then
3:17
weekend later we had snow. So it's, you know, jeez.
3:21
That shuts it down, doesn't it? When it snows like there's.
3:23
A snow. Well, you know, fortunately they
3:26
were. They were forecasting frozen,
3:28
you know, freezing rain and ice, which really, really cripple us
3:31
because all the pine trees and power lines that are up and not
3:34
buried. So we were fortunate that we
3:36
didn't get that and didn't have didn't have a loss of power.
3:39
You know, there were a lot of people in the area that did lose
3:41
power, but fortunately it wasn't, was near, not nearly as
3:44
bad as they were, they were predicting in the, you know, in
3:47
the forecast. So, so we, we, we dodged the
3:50
bullet. We dodged the bullet.
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That ice stuff is really, that's the scary part.
3:53
It's, I know snow's slippery and all that kind of stuff, but man,
3:56
ice is just, that's bad news, man, no matter where.
3:58
You are and then and then we had, you know, following both of
4:01
those precipitation events, the IT was a cold front that pushed
4:05
them through. So that was in the low teens
4:07
following it. So if it had, you know, it come
4:10
down in the freezing rain, it would have iced over and stayed
4:13
iced over on our roads. Most of the schools in the, you
4:17
know, Northeast Georgia, South Carolina area, the public
4:20
schools were out, you know, for most of them took off Friday and
4:24
then we're out. Didn't go back until Wednesday
4:26
because even though, even though the, you know, most of the most
4:31
of the precipitation had melted off the roads, areas in the
4:34
shade, as you well know, and we have a lot of shade around here
4:37
because we have so many trees, those Rd. roads in those areas,
4:41
you know, stayed icy. In fact, I had a delivery that
4:45
following Monday and I was at home waiting on the delivery and
4:48
he couldn't bring it in. I had to go out and meet him
4:50
because he couldn't come in, come in on my Rd. because
4:52
there's one section that he might, you know, might have
4:55
trouble, you know, so I had to go out and unload the truck in
4:58
my truck out there. So out in the middle of the
5:00
street. So man, don't dedicate it.
5:02
I got the delivery though. You are.
5:04
Well, that's an. Easy description of you, my
5:07
friend. You know, Rick, I've known you
5:08
for a long time and you know, I love people's different roles
5:11
and things like that. And you've been a a track and
5:13
field coach, which we're going to talk about, which is amazing
5:16
track specialty, track specialty dealers.
5:18
So you serve other coaches selling Gill track and field
5:21
equipment, things like that. You really got interesting to me
5:24
here lately. You started working with this
5:26
amazing cross country course and helping design it.
5:30
You know, I would have told you before you and I had our initial
5:33
conversation about what all was involved in that.
5:35
I would have told you like, oh, that's not that hard.
5:38
You got to cut down some things. You got to design it.
5:40
Sure, sure, sure. But that's it.
5:42
I can't wait to dive into that and share that with the audience
5:44
because that was fascinating. And then it really hit me this
5:48
past December. We were at the ASBA, which is
5:50
American Sports Builders Association, a great
5:53
organization that helps with, you know, sports building.
5:56
So athletic facilities around the country, everywhere from
5:58
schools, private homes, tennis facilities, things like that.
6:01
It's really cadre of amazing, intelligent people.
6:05
And you were on stage talking about the coach's perspective,
6:08
the coach's view of building facilities.
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And I just, I, I was really, you know, again, I've known you for
6:13
so long. It was really like, I was proud
6:16
of you. Like seeing you up on stage was
6:18
really neat to me. Like, wow, you know, I know, you
6:22
know, I've seen you on the track and, and talking with kids and
6:25
coaches and things like that. Seeing you on stage in front of
6:28
that. There were no coaches there in
6:29
the audience. There were a bunch of
6:31
professionals in sports construction and you held court,
6:35
my friend. I just was so impressed.
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I can't wait to get into each of those different topics.
6:40
But the first topic is going to be something I actually don't
6:43
know anything about with you, Rick.
6:45
So assuming, and we know what assuming does, assuming that you
6:50
were an athlete, where in the world does track and field start
6:54
for you? 10th grade, OK, I was a football
7:04
player and a wrestler. Had no background.
7:07
I had run one track mate in junior high.
7:11
I ran the hurdle. It was a 120 hurdle.
7:13
They'll flip that. They'll flip down Gil hurdles.
7:15
Remember Killers, Killers. So we ran one mate and the
7:20
football coach talked a bunch of us football players into running
7:23
in this one mate at 9th graders at junior high the following
7:26
year after football season and wrestling season, my good friend
7:30
who was a good friend who's wrestled and and played football
7:35
with talked me and coming out to track.
7:38
I weighed 165 lbs. He was the thrower.
7:41
I went out and hung out with him.
7:42
I threw the shot put my sophomore year.
7:45
So just just to hang out, you know, and we had, we might have
7:51
had five mates, you know, it was not a, it was not a, a, it was
7:55
19/7/1975. It was not a big program at our
8:00
school is. This is this in Georgia are.
8:03
You growing up in Gainesville High School in Georgia, it was
8:06
not it was not a it was not a priority sport by any means.
8:11
You know, so a lot of us, you know, we're out there just to
8:13
hang out with our friends. So that's where it started.
8:17
And then the interesting thing that when I became a coach that
8:20
I look back on, I wanted to learn more about, you know, how
8:24
to, how to improve in the shotput, especially since I was
8:27
small and weak because I was, I was, you know, I was really
8:30
undersized. And so I found a resource, a
8:33
teacher's resource library in the school and it had it had
8:39
resource, it had a few more resources than just what the
8:41
library had, you know, which is more student reading, the
8:44
interest kind of thing. And in that, in that resource
8:47
room, I found a track and field instruction book and I went in
8:54
and started reading and researching on how to improve,
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you know, tech, you know, tech, you know, technical terms and
9:00
technical ways to improve in the shot put.
9:03
So I think that was where the, you know, where the, you know,
9:06
my background in coaching came from because you know, when I,
9:10
when I, when I was finally coerced in the coaching track
9:13
and field, you know, my first, you know, my, my first year in
9:17
teaching, you know, I found that, you know, I didn't know a
9:22
lot, but I had AI had an affinity for researching it and
9:26
I could research it and, and, and take in a lot of different,
9:30
a lot of different perspectives. And then I was able to turn that
9:33
into, you know it. It gave me, you know, gave me
9:36
the ability to coach it better. Did you, I'm, I'm curious
9:39
because you played other sports, you said football and, and
9:42
things like that. Did you go to the library to
9:44
read more about how to become a better football player?
9:47
How to become a better wrestler? No.
9:50
Why track? That's interesting.
9:52
I didn't have the background, you know, I realized that there
9:56
was a, that there was a, a deficit said I did not have the
10:00
background that I needed. And what, you know, there what,
10:02
there was no coaching. You know, we had one coach and
10:06
you know, every group just sort of did their own thing.
10:08
And so in our group, you know, the older guys, you know, they
10:13
would offer pointers, but you know, they were not very well
10:15
coached either. They were just bigger.
10:17
They were just bigger and stronger than I was.
10:19
And so, you know, I, I just felt, I felt there was a gap
10:25
that I needed to feel, you know, and I, I, I, I didn't have to do
10:28
that in football and wrestling because I had enough background
10:31
in those and had been coached, you know, a lot, you know, more
10:37
heavily in those two sports. I was not getting any coaching
10:40
and tracking, you know, in the field event that I was in.
10:42
And so like I said, I noticed there was a gap and I wanted to
10:46
fill that gap. You know, I just felt inadequate
10:48
in that respect, so I wanted to know more.
10:51
And I, I think I knew you as a thrower for some reason.
10:54
The hurdling thing is, you know, because I love hurdles.
10:57
Did you not try your hand back at her?
11:00
Like, you know, I did that in 9th grade.
11:01
No, no. The next year, the next year, a
11:05
buddy of mine, he came out the next year and he and I, we
11:10
started going to a small Community College that had a
11:14
track facility. They just built a track facility
11:16
and they had, you know, our track was 5 lanes of asphalt at
11:21
the school. So we would go out to the
11:23
Gainesville Junior College and they had a rubberized track.
11:27
It was like, wow, this is great. And they and they had a pole
11:29
vault pit. We had two poles and we would
11:33
drive the poles out there in his Volkswagen Beetle sunroof with
11:37
the pole sticking out of the sunroof because we couldn't
11:40
leave it out. There was nowhere to store it,
11:41
but we could use it. So he and I decided we were
11:44
going to vault that year. So we vaulted that year
11:46
primarily because that big map was really nice to lay down and
11:49
work on your suntan. So we all have our reasons.
11:54
Why, Yeah, so that, you know, that was that was it.
11:57
So you know, I started, so we started Vault.
11:59
Why the pole vault? Were there other vaulters in the
12:01
area that you saw? Like how, how did you get into
12:03
it? Pole vaults are pretty even
12:04
today in 2026 is still a niche event for us.
12:08
It is. There's a lot of people who go
12:10
through high school, like I, I remember, you know, this back in
12:13
the 90s in, in Alabama, but, but like we had no idea the pole
12:16
vault. That was, you know, where I grew
12:17
up as like none of us could afford a pole vault pit and
12:19
poles and things like that. So that was the rich schools in
12:21
Birmingham. They had pole vault that state.
12:23
We didn't have that. So I would, I would never even
12:25
have thought about doing pole vault in high school because it
12:27
just, it went around. How did you guys even like like,
12:30
Oh, that's like look at that event, look at them like did any
12:32
teammates do it or you just saw other schools or TV?
12:35
Another, another, another team, you know, a good friend of mine
12:39
that I, you know, we played football, we wrestled together
12:42
and then hey, let's go off the track.
12:44
Hey, let's go pole ball. So he knew about it.
12:47
Well, he knew about it and you know, you know, I, I was aware
12:50
of it, you know, I was aware of it, you know, but you know, I've
12:54
seen it, you know, the Olympics, you know, you know, a couple
12:58
years before and you know, same, you know, a little bit on TV,
13:01
you know, at same, I think it was Sigrin at the time.
13:04
Bob Sigrin at the time was one of the top Ballers at the time,
13:08
you know, and he was, you know, like, wow, he's that's, that's
13:11
an athlete, you know, but we just decided, you know, hey,
13:15
that's an event. We can go out.
13:17
We're not going to have to run a whole lot.
13:19
We don't have to train because there's no coaching, you know.
13:22
And there was, there was one, it was 1 vaulter that was older
13:26
than us and he was a little bit more experienced, but we didn't
13:29
get along real well. So basically we'd go out there
13:31
and do our little thing and then he would do his thing, you know,
13:34
and like I said, we had two poles.
13:36
We had two catapults. He had one that was a little bit
13:39
closer to his way. We had a, you know, a 180.
13:42
It might have been a 13180, you know.
13:44
So I'm straight polling, you know, you know, we're both
13:47
straight polling and just, you know, and just having a good
13:49
time and we go to meets and go to meets and straight, you know,
13:52
go to meets and straight pole. And then I started seeing some
13:54
good vaulters and like, oh, wow, oh, he's been coached.
13:58
Oh, he's got several poles. Oh, he's holding way up there.
14:01
Oh, that's what oh, that's what fiberglasses supposed to do, you
14:05
know, So I you know, I I got interested, but you know, still,
14:09
you know, without it wasn't it wasn't a priority.
14:12
It was not a priority. You know, my PR was 96 OK, and I
14:19
PR Ed at 96 and when I cleared 96 straight pulling swing up, go
14:23
over, I missed the mat come down on the come down just to the
14:29
side of where the standard is. There's no base pad standard.
14:31
That's time, right? Yeah, the pit.
14:35
Yeah, small. It was small, but it was it was
14:37
foam, you know, at least where that.
14:39
And so I missed the foam came down and and landed on the the
14:42
edge of the concrete with my heel and bruised my heel.
14:46
So I technically PR and stopped, which, you know, I've only seen,
14:52
you know, you know, Mondo does it a lot.
14:54
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.
14:55
Mondo does it because, you know, and then I saw, you know, I've
14:58
seen a couple other people do it because they were retired then
15:01
they retired, took his shoes off, you know, that kind of
15:04
thing. But, you know, I had to, you
15:06
know, I had to stop. Well, I never, I never, I never
15:09
equaled that again. I thought, well, this is it, I'm
15:11
going to get better. You know, this is it.
15:13
I had a great day. You know, I was on, you know,
15:15
next time I probably know Heidi, the next two or three weeks, you
15:17
know, because the opening height was like, oh, we went to an
15:20
invitation. The opening height was 08 and a
15:23
half feet. We got a problem now.
15:25
Yeah, And I remember this. These are the days of the
15:29
triangular aluminum crossbar. OK, So, you know, if you knocked
15:35
it all, you better be aware that it's coming down on you because
15:39
it's going to bet you knock your teeth out.
15:41
Whatever. But the great thing about the
15:43
aluminum crossbar, you land on it, then break, it would bend
15:47
and bow. Just take it out on the mat,
15:48
take it out on the runway, straighten it back out as
15:51
straight as you could and get that thing up there, you know?
15:54
I first of all, I can't fathom the person who invented the
15:57
triangle. And here's the thing, you know,
15:59
Gil, athletics has a pretty long history in sports.
16:01
It might have been us back in the day.
16:03
I don't know. But someone had been, someone
16:05
had to say, you know what? Why don't we make this thing
16:07
that, you know, I know high jumpers and pole vaulters could
16:09
potentially land on it, but let's make a triangle of the
16:12
sharp edges, not circle. We had circular metal back then.
16:15
So I don't understand why we didn't go there.
16:17
That's the first thing. Second thing was, you know as
16:19
such. Or square metal, you know, one
16:21
square 1 angle, you know, like angle and this and this.
16:24
Some engineer. Some engineer just wanted to
16:26
have fun, yeah. That's what it was.
16:27
Somebody had excess triangle of materials like just make it out
16:30
of that and that became the thing.
16:31
Yeah. The the other thing is, you
16:32
know, track is such this, you know, highly technical down to
16:36
the 8th of an inch down to the 100th of a second.
16:39
Millimeters and then. And then we'll land on it and
16:43
the the bow, the bar would bow and we would just straighten it
16:45
out. It wouldn't be perfectly
16:46
straight. Let's be real here.
16:47
Yeah, put it back up 96. It's like that. 8996 so I
16:52
probably got a, you know, a band, you know, a little band
16:55
help on that. There's no question.
16:58
But I I'm still but I'm still claiming the 96, still claiming
17:01
96. Did you go back to the library?
17:03
Are you like like are you bit by the pole ball bug like you're
17:06
trying to figure it out as much as possible?
17:10
You know, I don't recall, you know, I, I don't recall if I at
17:13
at that time, if I had the time to, you know, research as much
17:17
because there were other, you know, a lot of other things
17:20
going on at the time. You know, I had finally gotten,
17:24
you know, I had developed smaller amount of shyness where
17:30
I had a girlfriend. And so I had less time to do,
17:32
you know, less time to do stuff. So, you know, girls were a lot
17:35
more interesting at that time, you know, so I didn't do the,
17:38
you know, I didn't feel the need to get really good at it, you
17:41
know, at that point, you know, and then and then and then my,
17:43
you know, the the track coach, he was a football coach.
17:47
I was with him talking to a talking to another coach that
17:50
was his sort of his it was a former coach that had coached
17:53
track a lot, you know, and previously previously at the
17:55
school. And so I'm just happened to go
17:58
with him that day to talk to this guy.
18:00
And they were he was he was trying to get set up for a relay
18:02
event that they had going on. And he said, when I've got this
18:07
Sprint mentally, you know, and you know, I've got this one,
18:11
I've got this one, I need somebody to run the 200.
18:13
And darn it, he didn't point at me and say, well, let more do
18:16
it. He can run a 200.
18:17
So I ran a 200 and of course I ran a 200 in this relay and you
18:21
would know it, but I made a great exchange and then I, I, I
18:26
ate it. I hadn't rolled, I hadn't
18:28
rolled, you know, So you know, you know, I got tracking bill
18:31
took its toll on me. It really did, you know, it made
18:34
me it made me pay it really did, you know.
18:38
And then my senior year, I was, you know, I had been accepted to
18:44
UGA and I, so spring came around and instead of doing track that
18:50
year, I had to work because I needed to, I needed to make
18:54
some, you know, I need to make as much money as possible, you
18:56
know, through spring and summer. So I took spring off and just
18:59
work and was working a, you know, a second shift job, you
19:02
know, I'd get out of school and then, you know, work 4:00 to
19:05
4:00 to midnight, you know, just trying to make, you know, trying
19:08
to make, you know, to get up enough fun, as much fun as
19:10
possible Before I before I went to school in the fall.
19:13
And then, you know, that was, you know, so after that, after,
19:16
after that winter. And that was in 1977 after
19:19
wrestling my scholastic athletic career.
19:23
Yeah, that was it. I retired from scholastic
19:25
athletics at that point, so. Not uncommon, maybe even today.
19:28
No, it's not. I get that.
19:30
Maybe the work until midnight might be a little uncommon
19:32
today, but I. Was just.
19:33
I was just. Yeah, yeah, that was just the
19:36
shift. Now I'm I'm hearing, you know,
19:38
about, you know, and again, not uncommon here, you know, 1 coach
19:42
and you know, and everybody's kind of doing their own thing,
19:44
things like that. So I'm not necessarily hearing.
19:46
And maybe like, you know, we've had coaches guest on the podcast
19:51
before where it's like, man, I was in coach's office every day
19:54
asking questions. You know, I, I kind of knew, I
19:56
didn't know, but I knew I was going to be a track coach.
19:58
So I'm not necessarily hearing that with your track coach, but
20:00
is there any, was there a football coach?
20:02
Was there an English teacher? Is there, you know, an adult in
20:06
your life that you're like man cuz you know, spoiler you become
20:09
a teacher and a track coach so. You know.
20:12
That you had to be. Yeah, something happened.
20:14
Was there anybody that you can that that you had a relationship
20:17
with or someone you're like, man, that person, It wasn't for
20:19
Missus Smith. I, I don't know that I'd be
20:21
where I am, any mentor or anything like that in in high
20:25
school, in high school. You know, I had, I had a lot of
20:27
mentors in high school, you know, all my coaches were, were
20:31
mentors and I, you know, I, you know, hung on their every word,
20:34
you know, But as far as at that point in my life, I coaching and
20:40
and, you know, teaching and coaching was not anywhere,
20:43
anywhere in my field of vision at all.
20:46
You know, I was, you know, I was thinking I was going to be a,
20:50
was going to work for the National Forest Service and I
20:52
was going to get a forestry degree.
20:54
Yeah. You know, and so that's what I
20:56
you know, that's what I went into, you know, UGA, you know,
20:58
was thinking I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to go into
21:00
forestry, you know, because I thought I like outdoors.
21:03
I like being out, you know, I like being out on the trails.
21:06
I like, you know, doing this, like doing that, you know, so
21:08
that kind of fit what I, you know, what I thought I wanted to
21:11
do, you know, and then, you know, after, you know, after a
21:15
couple of quarters that, you know, in Athens and, you know,
21:19
talking to my advisors and looking at the looking at the
21:24
workload, you know, I have not been the most dedicated student.
21:28
You know, I had, I was talking to a friend of mine.
21:30
I was talking to a friend of mine just a couple days ago.
21:33
You're so you're so nice to yourself, Rick.
21:35
I love this. Yeah.
21:36
You know I wasn't. Necessarily you.
21:39
Know I wasn't a bad student, but you know, you know, I didn't
21:42
have any. I didn't have any.
21:43
You know, I told my friend the other day he was talking about
21:44
lockers and, you know, taking something home from the lockers,
21:47
you know, and I said hold on Mike, I got AI forgot to do
21:51
something crazy power. Oh yeah, don't run out.
21:55
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll be right in the middle of
21:59
this juicy story, and it'll speak.
22:00
In black it all goes. It all goes dead.
22:04
So give me, I'm sorry. We, we've had that before where
22:06
someone's they'll, they'll go to their laptop, they forget to
22:09
plug in their laptop and it just dies.
22:11
So it's all good. We're good now.
22:13
OK. I'm sorry.
22:14
So, yeah, yeah. When I when I saw.
22:16
When I saw what I can remember it like it was yesterday when I
22:20
saw organic chemistry was on there.
22:23
Was that part of like? Forestry was hard.
22:26
I heard the chemistry is like the class that a lot of people
22:29
flunk out and change majors and. I wasn't.
22:31
I wasn't even going to risk a flunking out.
22:33
When I saw that. I was like, I need to, you know,
22:36
I need to segue into something else.
22:37
You know, this is probably not. This is probably not, you know,
22:41
what I want to try and do. But, you know, back to high
22:43
school, back to high school, you know, back to my organic
22:45
chemistry scared me. You know, I did OK.
22:47
You know, I did OK in high school.
22:49
And but I was telling a friend of mine the other day, he said
22:51
something about locker, you know, this and that in school.
22:53
And I said, you know, I never took a book home.
22:58
I never took a book home. You know, I, you know, I went to
23:00
class and I took tests, you know, I did whatever, but I take
23:03
a book. I never studied.
23:05
I mean, I just didn't. I mean, it's just I didn't have,
23:07
you know, I wasn't failing, you know, I wasn't, you know, I
23:09
wasn't making eight places or anything.
23:11
But you know, you know, I got by, you know, and I didn't say,
23:15
you know, you know, I didn't say it was, it was a, you know, it
23:19
was a priority. You know, I had sports and
23:22
friends and girls and you know, so you know, my days were full.
23:27
You know it was so have a go until I go to sleep.
23:29
How did you pivot once you saw organic chemistry was in year 2
23:32
or something you're. Like I got shot.
23:33
We're not going. To get there, yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:35
Well, how did you figure out what to pivot to you?
23:38
Know, I can't remember if it was in conversation with my parent,
23:42
you know, and, you know, I think my mother said something along
23:44
the lines when, you know, you were you were good at sports,
23:48
you know, why don't you look at, you know, why don't you look at,
23:50
you know, becoming a coach? You know, it's not becoming a
23:52
teacher as becoming a coach, you know, and, and so I looked into
23:57
it and so I went over so that spring I switched my majors into
24:01
health physical education. Back then it was HPERD.
24:05
It was health, physical education, recreation and dance
24:07
and dance. That's crazy.
24:10
Yeah, Yeah. So, you know, and, and the great
24:13
thing about it was, you know, those, those dancers are in the
24:16
same building we're in. And so I was like, that was a
24:18
great experience. Like, you know, seeing dancers
24:20
come by, you know, at this point, you know, now I wish that
24:23
I had signed up for more dance classes or any dance classes,
24:26
because I would have been, you know, like guys don't show up.
24:29
And like, so when, when I was teaching, when I was teaching at
24:32
Mill Creek, I would tell guys, guys, if you really want to, if
24:35
you really want to be hit with with girls, sign up for the
24:39
dance class because they will treat you like you're golden
24:41
because you'll be the only one in there.
24:42
You know, you might be one or two guys in there.
24:44
Do you? Do you know or at least know the
24:46
name Randy Huntington? I don't believe so.
24:50
Long time coach, Coach Mike Powell and Willie Banks back in
24:53
the day and now just finished out a long time 10-15 years
24:58
coaching a lot of members of team China over in China.
25:01
So he he totally revamped their hope.
25:03
You know, they had no one, a long jump and then they went.
25:05
One and three. Yeah, so Randy was just a guest
25:08
few episodes ago and and there's, you know, Coach Willy
25:12
Banks and and Mike Powell there's, you know, he doesn't
25:15
need any more resume than that, right?
25:16
And he talked about he went to school at Oregon just to go, he
25:19
wasn't going there for track back in the day.
25:21
And the dance instructor said, hey, we have no guys.
25:25
I need a guy, I need you to be in this dance troupe.
25:28
And he credits what he learned. And a lot of his warm up is
25:32
based on things that he learned in dance.
25:34
It was. It was.
25:36
Real like, So when you said dance, I'm like, man, dance is
25:38
bigger in our sport and I think we either give it credit for or
25:41
maybe we're not paying attention enough.
25:42
To it 3 lives I think you're right yeah dance dance and yoga
25:46
you know yoga yeah yoga is the one that seems like.
25:49
A lot of people are doing yoga. I see that on SO.
25:51
It has. It has gone up a lot.
25:53
More, but I don't see people talking about dance necessarily
25:57
so yeah, that's just interesting.
25:58
But I do remember when it used to be the D was always at the
26:00
end there there's. He was at the end part of it,
26:03
and they were adamant that that D was on there.
26:05
You know the dance professors, like right?
26:08
It's PERD. Yeah.
26:11
Yeah. ERD.
26:11
So you. Turn into APE major essentially.
26:14
I did no organic chem with that. Nope.
26:18
Nope. Kines, you know.
26:21
Human Physiology, you know. Kinesiology, you know.
26:24
Classes. They are, but they're, these
26:29
are, you know, these are things that I can touch and see and
26:31
feel, you know, and not just concepts, you know, it's, you
26:36
know, I'm AI found out I was a I'm a visual kinesthetic
26:39
learner, you know, and I can feel things.
26:40
And so, you know, with with Physiology, it was, you know, I
26:44
thought it was fairly easy because I had a CHEAT SHEET,
26:46
because my body, you know, I just had to remember where it
26:48
was on my body. And so, you know, I, you know,
26:52
that that didn't scare me or bother me, you know, and you
26:55
know, and then the other, you know, the other things, you
26:57
know, that dealt with, you know, with the teaching and the
27:00
psychology of teaching, the sociology of teaching, all those
27:02
kind of things were, it turns out that those were, you know,
27:05
things that I was more attuned to, you know, that, that, that,
27:09
you know, the math, organic, that kind of thing.
27:12
You know, that's not, you know, that's not really the way my,
27:14
you know, the way my brain, you know, you know, I didn't have
27:17
the affinity part like I do for, you know, for the, the the more
27:21
people element, you know, and then the physical element.
27:24
So but so that's how I switched over.
27:27
As you're going through your last few years at UGA and now
27:30
this new front, OK, I'm going to be a coach, which is
27:33
interesting. Not not teacher, but you're, you
27:35
got to go become a teacher if you're going to be a coach, if
27:37
you're not going to the college level necessarily.
27:39
Does track reintroduce itself at all at this point, or is that
27:43
after we get done in Athens? It's it's it's it's not even on
27:49
the horizon, really. Yeah, yeah, it was not.
27:51
It was. Wait, so when you.
27:53
Graduated. You didn't go straight into
27:54
teaching and coaching. I did not.
27:56
I did not. I didn't.
27:57
Work. I don't know this.
27:59
So I graduated and I, I had a, I had a really good student
28:07
teacher experience. OK.
28:09
It was really good both teaching wise and coaching wise.
28:12
Coaching wise was really good. You know, I was able to during
28:15
the winter. So that would work with
28:17
wrestling. So I worked with a, with a, that
28:19
was still, it was middle school and it was junior high at the
28:22
time, but it was still junior high, but it was 7th and 8th
28:24
grade. So I was able to work with with
28:27
the, the junior high wrestling program.
28:29
So, you know, I went and coached, did that, you know, and
28:32
had a, you know, that was a great experience.
28:34
And then my coaches were still coaching football at the high
28:37
school for the most part. The head coach was.
28:39
And so I went down and did spring practice with, with with
28:43
the varsity, you know, with the, with the junior varsity and
28:46
varsity. But I was able to go down and
28:48
that was my first coaching experience in football.
28:51
And so, you know, at the end of that experience, you know, the
28:54
the junior high principal who was the offense coordinator with
28:57
my former offense coordinator, we're not, you know, as a
29:00
football coach and also was my physics teacher, who he was now
29:04
an administrator there. So he called me in and offered
29:07
me a job. And at that point, I still had
29:11
another quarter in in Athens. And, you know, I was I was just
29:16
too young and immature to think that I needed to teach at that
29:18
point. And my brother, my brother had a
29:22
prodigy to Atlanta fitness center that he was just
29:25
developing. And so I helped him get that
29:28
started. And I worked there for four
29:29
years. Well, I worked there for three
29:31
years. So I basically hung out in
29:33
Athens, did the fitness center kind of thing and just, you
29:37
know, hung out in that hung out in the college.
29:40
Yeah. Lived life when, you know, with,
29:41
with buddies. I had, you know, I was living
29:43
with my my younger brother and some friends, you know, we're in
29:45
school, you know, So, you know, I was just in at.
29:48
Athens is a good place when you're young.
29:49
Athens is a good place to be. You know, like any college town.
29:52
I, I was going to ask you during your student teaching, you went
29:55
into, you did wrestling and then you did some spring football
29:59
like, oh, did that really like solidify it?
30:01
But obviously not if you didn't go do the fitness center.
30:04
Route it it. It did it.
30:06
Really. Didn't I was still, but you
30:08
enjoyed it. I did.
30:09
I did. It was a great experience, but I
30:12
still wasn't sold on the, you know, I, you know, I think more
30:17
than anything I wasn't sold on, you know, the teaching, you
30:19
know, get into getting into teaching, you know, and that
30:21
responsibility, you know, and you know, so that made, you
30:27
know, I would have coached. But as far as, OK, I want to go
30:31
back, you know, it's like, I want to go back there and teach
30:33
and like, OK, I want to go back home, you know, where I, you
30:36
know, I grew up, you know, it could have been an offer from
30:38
somewhere else, you know, maybe, you know, but I, I just don't
30:41
think, you know, at that time, I just wasn't, I wasn't committed
30:45
when I, you know what, I had gone, you know, spent three
30:48
years training for, you know, going to school and training
30:50
for. I just wasn't committed for it.
30:51
And So what, you know, what I had done to school and you know
30:53
what, I, you know, the schooling also, you know, it sort of LED
30:56
in the fitness center because, you know, I, you know, it, it
30:58
LED into it, you know, because it was basically it was
31:01
training, you know, it was teaching and training, you know,
31:03
it was just, you know, a, a different, a different clientele
31:07
in with a different clientele. Yeah.
31:09
Yeah. So, you know, so I did, you
31:13
know, I did that for I did, I did it for four years.
31:18
The third year after my third year there housing thing, it was
31:24
trying to figure out where I was going to live.
31:25
You know how, you know, some roommates have moved out.
31:27
And so I was kind of, I was stuck in the middle trying to
31:30
figure out where I was going to live in Athens.
31:32
And then so I had to, I'd had to move back home because the
31:37
lease, my lease had ran up one place and the lease was going to
31:39
start, you know, in a like in a few weeks.
31:42
So I had to load everything up, move it back home.
31:44
So I, I was home, my dad and I just out of the blue looking at
31:51
at won't ad found it for sale ad we found a piece of property and
31:56
he and I somehow talked each other into buying a farm.
32:02
And so so we buy a farm, you know, a chicken farm and an
32:07
operating chicken farm. And so I moved over on this
32:10
chicken farm. Wait.
32:11
You had no. You knew?
32:14
No, I, well, I've been around chickens because that was, you
32:16
know, that that second shift job from 4:00 to 12:00, that was in
32:21
a hatchery because my dad, my dad had a poultry degree from NC
32:24
State. Oh, shut up.
32:25
And he was, he was, he was, he was a hatchery manager.
32:28
And so he was the brains of the operation.
32:30
I was the labor. So I was at the.
32:32
Labor. This isn't that far out of left
32:33
field here there was. No, no, there's chicken.
32:35
Experience OK, got. It yeah, yeah, there's chicken
32:38
experience, so you know, but not not, you know, and I delivered
32:41
chicken and I'd been around, you know, the whole, you know, the
32:43
whole the whole industry, but never been.
32:46
You deliver chickens? You mean like?
32:47
Yeah, when I was in high school on those chicken, you don't see
32:51
chicken buses up there. But we haul, we haul those
32:53
chickens. We haul the little chickens, the
32:55
chicks out to poultry houses. You said you'd deliver chickens.
32:58
I was like, you know, they come in egg form.
32:59
I thought you meant like a, like a baby.
33:01
I was like, you know, it's like that's not that hard.
33:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it.
33:04
We're we're delivering the baby. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
33:06
No, we would. We would.
33:08
You know, in a hatchery you trade, you know, you, you put
33:10
the eggs in incubators and you, you grow dry.
33:13
So I know all about that. That's a whole different.
33:16
Conversation. Do you know who he's passed away
33:18
now? A guy named Morgan.
33:20
I think it was Morgan McDonald. He's the guy who did the Super
33:22
Size Me documentary. Yeah.
33:24
Yeah, I know the guy. Did you ever see his other
33:27
documentary about chicken? I I didn't watch it because I
33:31
was scared. Yeah.
33:32
Bro that's. What I'm saying and I had I had
33:34
enough, you know, I had enough horror stories of my own
33:37
thinking. I couldn't need eggs for all a.
33:39
Long time. It's Morgan has his issues with
33:42
how he presents his documentary. These memories.
33:44
It's. Yeah, we all have our our biases
33:46
in what we want the final product to be.
33:48
But there were parts where it was like, Oh my goodness, like
33:51
this is not good. And by the way, we eat so much
33:53
chicken, you know, it's like, well, you're right, man.
33:56
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So actually being in it, bro, I
33:58
couldn't. I couldn't imagine that
34:00
actually. It was, it was, it was a little
34:03
different. I mean, I had an aversion to,
34:06
you know, some of the chicken products, you know, for a long
34:08
time, you know, so you guys like we buy, we buy farm.
34:13
And I moved to this place. So for a year I'm driving it
34:15
back and forth. Still in Georgia?
34:17
Where I'm living, Yeah. Still in Georgia?
34:18
So you're in Georgia, 3 in Georgia?
34:19
Where I'm, where I'm living, you know, where I'm still living
34:22
today. And that was, you know, 4046
34:25
years ago. 41 years ago. Yeah, it was 80.
34:28
Yeah. 41 years ago. So or 8442 years ago now this
34:32
July. But so the important part of
34:36
that is, and I'm driving back and forth and that, you know,
34:39
driving back and forth. We're doing the fitness center
34:41
and I'm having to work that, you know, having to work.
34:43
So you're doing both. I'm doing both.
34:46
Yeah. So I'm doing chickens in the
34:47
morning, you know, chickens when I get back, you know, and then,
34:49
you know, doing that, you know, and so, you know, working in
34:54
Athens is not nearly as much fun now because I got all this other
34:57
stuff. So turn.
35:00
It turns out that the, the, the realtor that dealt, we dealt
35:04
with when we purchased the farm was also a, she was on the Board
35:08
of Education in Franklin County. And in conversations during, you
35:13
know, all the chit chat, she found out, you know, she found
35:15
out where I was from, you know, I played football, who I played
35:20
for, you know, who was, who was a legendary coach at the time.
35:23
You know, it's a good program and she knew that I, you know,
35:27
had a teaching degree, etcetera, etcetera.
35:30
She called me up, you know, a few months after I moved up
35:33
there and well, yeah, you know, six or seven months after I
35:37
moved up there and said there's an opening at the junior high.
35:41
Would you be interested in? And you'd be teaching at junior
35:44
high, You'd be coaching, you know, coaching, you know, couple
35:46
of sports, whatever. And, you know, it was, it's time
35:50
for a change. And so I went and interviewed
35:53
just to see what would happen. And I didn't know, you know, I
35:56
hadn't had no, you know, I had no idea.
35:58
It's like, OK, I'll, I'll do it. Well, they offer me the job and
36:01
I'm like, well, at least I don't have to drive this far.
36:04
And so suddenly, 1985, you know, after graduating, after
36:10
graduating UGA in 81, I finally started teaching.
36:14
And yeah, PE, you've heard. That joke about the PE teacher
36:20
has the kids around and says, who do you think the smartest
36:23
teacher in school is? And the kids are like, oh, boy,
36:25
Mr. Matthews, the math teacher, Oh, Misses June's the the
36:28
science teacher. And he's like, Nah, I get paid
36:30
the exact same they do. And I get to play dodgeball.
36:33
That's a guy in the front guy. Yeah, yeah.
36:35
That's. So smart for me except for me
36:37
it's I get to wear shorts every day.
36:39
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
36:40
I get to wear shorts every day. So don't.
36:43
Do you know they can be whatever they want.
36:45
They can. You know they teach physics.
36:46
But it was still get paid the same.
36:50
By the way. So what sports did you start out
36:53
with? I started out with junior high
36:56
football and basically I was just, it was dumped in my lap
37:02
and it was a, it was a. The whole program, you weren't
37:08
like, oh, go coach the linebackers, you were.
37:10
I was, I was the head coach. Oh bro, I was the head coach.
37:14
And. You know, I was the head coach
37:18
and I walk in and equipment is, you know, not in good shape.
37:21
You know, it's just like, OK, this is, this is, you know, bad
37:24
situation. At first games probably in a
37:26
week. No, I, I, you know, I had a
37:27
little bit longer than that, but I had to organize the physicals.
37:30
I, you know, you know, all these kind of things.
37:32
And at the time and I'm still raising chickens now, OK, now
37:36
I'm now I'm raising chickens, chickens raising chickens,
37:39
teaching and coaching. OK.
37:41
So it it was a it was a tough first year you a.
37:45
Hired. Worker and then and you know we
37:48
weren't that good that year. We were not very good at all we
37:50
didn't win a game we did not win a game A lot of that was my
37:53
fault. A lot of that was then I only
37:54
had 18 kids on the team, you know, and you know, but it was a
38:00
great experience. You know, I love the kid.
38:01
I love the athletes, love the kids still still close with with
38:05
a lot of them, you know, and this is, you know, 198586.
38:09
And so then I go into basketball.
38:14
I have 00 basketball. Yeah, it's like, it's like I
38:19
that's first I've heard that. Sport.
38:20
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. First, I, you know, I had, I had
38:23
gone to watch my friends play in high school.
38:26
That's it. We would play, we would play at
38:28
the at the local park. We but our game at the local
38:31
park was more like MMA, basketball, OK, honest to God,
38:37
MMA, there was more blood. There was more blood there than
38:40
you know, in in a football game, you know, so.
38:44
Not appropriate for middle school basketball.
38:46
No, no. So I had, I had a friend that
38:50
one of a friend that I had met when I was running around
38:53
hanging out in Athens who was a great athlete at, you know, at
38:58
Brown High School in Atlanta, ended up playing, played
39:01
football at University of Virginia.
39:04
So we were really good friends. He had been a great, he had been
39:06
a good basketball player. He was coaching basketball at
39:09
one of the schools in Athens at that time.
39:11
And I hauled him up, went down, talked to him.
39:14
He gave me some drills, got me started.
39:17
That was it. That was it.
39:21
Never had another conversation. By the way, pre YouTube Internet
39:25
there is no other place for. You to go to here.
39:27
I mean, you get a book, you know, but I couldn't find any
39:29
book, you know, and I didn't want to find any book as much as
39:33
anything, though, I'm going through.
39:35
It I can't imagine to be a track coach who knows nothing about
39:41
track. You know, if you just, you know,
39:43
know any little thing about fitness you can do some of the
39:46
kids, they won't get hurt. They're not going to be that
39:48
good, obviously. But you know, they'll at least
39:50
run the 100. They'll run the yeah, they'll
39:51
run the mile. They'll throw the shot at such a
39:53
basketball actually has plays and coordination and you know.
40:00
Little bit I know. Rick, I can just see on the
40:02
sideline going that's shooting, try to block, I don't know.
40:06
It was bad, you know, we weren't fundamental, you know, I we
40:09
drilled and drilled and. Drilled a lot of time.
40:11
Fundamental position, but you know, the, the, the, you know,
40:15
it's what you mentioned the, the plays, the inbound plays, the
40:18
offensive plays, the you know, you know, so I can understand
40:21
the defense. I can understand that, you know,
40:23
the defense strategies, how to switch defenses, you know,
40:26
teaching those, teaching those. I understood that I was, I was,
40:31
I was, I was a defense. I was a defensive player in high
40:33
school football, defensive player.
40:35
And so that I understood, you know, I could understand that I
40:39
could, I could work with the offense thing totally.
40:43
I never got a grasp on it. You know, I would, I would go,
40:47
you know, you know, the varsity coach, I would go and ask him
40:50
and he would say, well, you can do this.
40:52
He said, but if anyone start throwing in, you got to do this
40:54
and then this and then this and then this, you know, all these,
40:57
you know, all these things that, that, that on the fly, you know,
41:00
and it, it's such a, you know, it's such a fluid, you know, a
41:04
fluid event that you're trying to coach, you know, and, and,
41:07
and, and, and I struggled. I mean, I'll be the first to
41:09
tell you I struggled, you know, you know, I did not, you know, I
41:13
am not a I'm not a person that coach basketball.
41:16
I'm just not. And so as soon as, as soon as I,
41:19
as soon as we were able to find somebody to hire, you know, I
41:23
was like, I'm out and I got AI, got AI, got out of basketball.
41:27
The best thing I can do is let you go do your thing.
41:29
Yes, and y'all, y'all be great not.
41:32
Have to worry about me second guessing you.
41:33
Nope, Nope. And I'll clean the floor for
41:35
you. The floor will be ready for you
41:37
every you know, before every game I'll run the clock for.
41:39
I'll do anything to help you just so I don't have to coach.
41:43
Can't imagine how. And with basketball, you know
41:46
the coach is very front and center.
41:49
You know you're you're 2 feet away from the first row of the
41:52
stands for crying out loud and. Like it?
41:54
Feels like, it feels like you are like it's much more, you
41:58
know, we see eyes on a football coach and stuff like that, too.
42:00
But for the basketball coaches, it always feels like, oh,
42:03
there's like everybody can see you and every little thing you
42:05
do. Yeah.
42:06
The spotlight. Yeah.
42:08
No hiding. As a basketball coach, football
42:10
coach, I kind of get lost maybe a little bit in in the sideline
42:13
basketball. You're just there bro.
42:15
I just tried to stay in the seat all the time, not stand up.
42:18
And unfortunately, you know, that was when, I don't know if
42:21
you remember, that's when they put in the rule where coaches
42:23
had to stay seated. Oh, and coaches were in Georgia
42:27
and coaches were, they were, they were putting seatbelts on
42:30
their seats to keep standing up. I'm serious.
42:32
I'm serious. There was a there was a phase in
42:34
there where the coaches couldn't stand up, you know, where you,
42:37
you because coaches were just too abusive.
42:39
It just drives people crazy. Yeah.
42:41
So, you know, fortunately I just, I, I'm like, I'm fine with
42:43
it. Yeah, you're like, I'm good,
42:44
only no seat belt. I don't want to stand up.
42:46
I don't want to, you know, I don't want to make the center of
42:47
attention. That's not what I'm here.
42:49
I'm good. That's I'll sit.
42:51
I'll sit way down here. I don't care.
42:53
You know, I do like the humility of it though, Rick, because I
42:56
can see someone else being put in that situation going.
42:59
Look, I know I don't know much about basketball, but how
43:01
different can it be? And, you know, I talked to my
43:04
buddy who's the coach and I'm good and be very like, you know,
43:07
over. I don't know if it's hubris or
43:09
but you know, I'm gonna call it arrogant, but, you know, not
43:12
understanding some humility and saying, hey, man, I do not know
43:14
what I'm doing here, guys. I'm gonna do my best, but I, I
43:18
don't know what I'm doing. So I like the humility of just
43:20
like, all right, man, I'm, I'm here for the kids.
43:21
I want to help the kids. And I know, I know fundamentals.
43:23
OK, We're going to work on some fundamentals, but I'm not your
43:27
basketball. I'm limited.
43:29
Yeah, I love the. Ability.
43:30
We did a lot. We did a lot of fitness though.
43:32
We got in shape. I can figure out, Got a lot of
43:37
training, you know, a lot of training.
43:38
Stuff we may have lost by 30, but we ain't tired.
43:41
We're not tired, you know, that's that's the truth.
43:45
You know, 3 point, the three-point shot came in at that
43:48
point. You know, when I was cooking.
43:49
So guess who had to? I had to paint a three-point
43:53
line. So the varsity coach came over.
43:55
He and I painted 3 point line. Not like it's, it's not, you
43:58
know, it's not like I was talking to a friend of mine the
44:01
other day. Got a lot of coaches now they're
44:02
push button coaches. They push them.
44:04
They're like they expect it just to happen.
44:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Coach, you got to put a
44:07
three-point line down. You may happen I'm.
44:09
On it, baby. Tape, tape, tape, tape, paint
44:12
it. So yeah, these are all, these
44:13
are all growing things. Tell me after basketball season
44:16
you got to coach the greatest sport.
44:17
You got to go into track and field.
44:19
I finished the week, the week after.
44:23
So it was about a Thursday. The season had ended.
44:27
We've been put out of the tournament, you know,
44:28
graciously. And it was Thursday and I'm
44:32
sitting down eating Turkey tetrazzini in the in the
44:36
cafeteria. It was a great, you know, they
44:37
made the greatest Turkey tetrazini.
44:39
And the Superintendent walks in, OK, and, and and I, you know,
44:44
and the table, the teachers tables here and there's kids
44:47
tables are all around, you know, you know, we didn't sit up on,
44:49
we didn't have it where we sat up on the stage away from
44:51
everybody. And the teachers ate in the
44:53
lunchroom. We didn't go to rooms.
44:54
And the Superintendent walks in and everybody's like, oh, the
44:57
superintendents here. I wonder what he comes over and
44:59
sits down next to me and he says, Travis Moon bad.
45:05
He was a Superintendent at the time he had hired me.
45:07
And he comes over and says, coach, we've got this little, we
45:13
got this little track, this little region conference track
45:16
mate that we're doing in a couple of weeks.
45:18
Would you, you think you could practice, you know, the boys
45:23
practice them during school, you know, and then just basically it
45:26
was, you got your CDL. Can you drive them over there?
45:29
OK, So, and I'm like, you know, Mr. Moon, I, you know, I'm, I'm
45:34
worn out. I'm sure I'm I'm, I'm wasted.
45:39
And he said, well, you know, it would really help the kids out a
45:42
lot if you do it. I said, OK, and I thought I'll
45:46
get, I'll get, I get this kid and this kid and this kid will,
45:49
will in P class or during lunch break, we'll go down and I found
45:52
a baton and OK, you're on the relay team.
45:56
You're this you want to throw the shot.
45:57
You can throw the shot. OK, I let you know, a couple of
45:59
lineman throw the shot and then some other kids came out that,
46:03
you know, I, I have not coached, you know, and there was one kid
46:06
that came out that he, I'd had him in class and we did not get
46:12
along in class. It was, we were both behavior,
46:15
you know, we were both behavior disordered people.
46:18
He and I, you know, I was as bad as he was.
46:21
You know, we didn't get along well.
46:22
So we go, so we go to this track meet and Mike, let me tell you,
46:27
we're on the bus and we are in no uniforms.
46:32
They didn't have uniforms for us.
46:34
We just showed up in street clothes basically, OK, literally
46:37
street clothes, you know, so kids that had shorts will wear
46:39
shorts, you know, so basketball style shorts, whatever sneakers
46:43
they could have, you know, they, they could find this is girls
46:45
and guys. We're all on the bus going over
46:47
there. So we go to this little this
46:49
little meet, you know, and I've got everybody, you know, what do
46:51
you want to run? And it was like, OK, we're so if
46:53
they called you up, you just, so you'll just, you just step in
46:57
and go there. You know, it was one of those.
46:59
It's like, it's like all comers me, true, all comers me.
47:02
And so we've got 5 or 6 schools in our, in our, in our little
47:05
region conference that are, you know, competing.
47:07
And so these, these kids that I take over there, they get in
47:11
and, and they're competing, you know, and they're without any
47:14
training, you know, without any coaching, with no training, no
47:17
coaching at all. And it had it had a dramatic
47:23
effect on me. Remember the kid I told you
47:26
about that I didn't get along with in school?
47:28
He he showed up, he had a button up shirt with AT shirt
47:33
underneath it, a white T-shirt underneath.
47:34
He had cut off jeans. And he was wearing what you and
47:37
I would call Sunday shoes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
47:39
Slicks sold. Slicks sold, you know, dress
47:42
shoes. He ran the 400.
47:47
Who agrees? Who signs up out of the blue?
47:50
Oh, yeah, I mean, out of the blue, like everybody's like, Oh
47:53
yeah, I'll run 100. I want to run, I want to run
47:55
relays. I want to run relays.
47:57
He runs the 400 and he runs it. And he was, he was, he was
48:01
physically pretty talented. You know, he was, you know, he
48:03
was, he was athletic even though he never could.
48:06
He was never on any teams because he's always, he was
48:08
always in trouble. But he ran the 400 when he, when
48:13
he finished the 400, he is puking out everything he had,
48:18
you know, but he was, you know, ecstatic.
48:21
It was success for him. I think he said, you know, he,
48:24
he won a medal. He won a ribbon.
48:25
We didn't have medals. It was ribbon, but he won a
48:27
ribbon. And what he did impacted me
48:32
deeply. I remember on the ride home
48:35
thinking this was this was bad. Of all the people out there
48:40
today, I was the worst one out there because I didn't prepare
48:43
these kids. So I'm at lunch the next week.
48:48
The Superintendent comes walking in again.
48:50
He comes in, he sits down. He thanks me for taking out, for
48:53
taking them. And he said, well, if we were,
48:56
you know, if we were to find a little bit of money, would you
49:01
be willing to, you know, coach this that well, you know, I'm
49:04
doing already doing 2 fours, you know, So you know, that's going
49:09
to be pretty well. We can find a little money
49:11
maybe. And I said at that, I remember
49:13
saying to him, I'll do it under this condition.
49:15
You, I have to have some money because I need to, I need to
49:19
have a budget because I have to buy uniforms for these kids.
49:22
I said it was embarrassing and these kids deserved more than
49:25
what we what we gave them. You saw full uniforms.
49:28
Basketball had uniforms and we didn't have uniforms.
49:31
And he was the look. Yeah.
49:33
So, you know, he was, he was a little taken aback by it.
49:36
But, you know, that was that was my one demand that I get a
49:41
budget so I can buy some buy uniform.
49:43
Well, you know, they, they gave me a budget.
49:46
They gave me a little bit of money supplement wise, you know,
49:48
and you know, and that at that time a little bit of money was
49:52
OK, I'll take a little bit of money that, you know, work more,
49:55
OK, I'll take more money. You know, it's not like there's
49:57
not a, you know, I didn't think about, you know, how is that
50:00
cost effective at all? But anyway, so that's how I got
50:04
into it. Interesting, Rick.
50:05
It says a lot to me. I thought you were going to when
50:08
you said, hey, you know, I'll do it.
50:10
If I honestly thought you were going to, you know, smartly, by
50:13
the way, you were going to say, if I cannot coach basketball,
50:17
I'll do it. You know, But your first thought
50:19
wasn't, what can I get out of this, you know, more pay, no
50:23
more basketball, whatever it was.
50:26
Yeah, If you put you put some budget to this and actually, you
50:29
know, treat them like maybe they're supposed to with
50:31
uniforms, I'll do it. That was your first reaction.
50:33
That was it. That was.
50:35
It well, you know, like I said, that mate impacted me deeply,
50:41
deeply. And, you know, I felt like, you
50:46
know, if if kids are willing to run a 400 and throw up, then I
50:50
need to be willing to, you know, go the extra mile for them.
50:53
You know, they need to at least have uniforms on.
50:55
They need to look like the somewhat.
50:56
So you know, that that we that we care, you know enough about
50:59
him to do that, right? Yeah.
51:01
Did. Did you and his relationship
51:03
improve it all in the classroom after that meet?
51:05
Well, I didn't, I didn't have him in, you know, I'd had him
51:09
earlier in the year, but didn't have him then.
51:11
And you know, that was toward the, that was toward the end of
51:14
school at that point. So and I, you know, I don't, you
51:18
know, he, that he was an eighth grader at the time and he went
51:20
on to high school and I lost track of him.
51:22
And so I'm, you know, I never was able to, I was never able to
51:26
tell him, you know, you know, to tell him what, what, what he had
51:29
done for me. You know, his, what his effort
51:32
did for me. That that.
51:34
That's. A great.
51:35
Example that people are always watching us for good and bad by
51:40
the way, and we don't and we won't always know it.
51:43
That young man that you know, he's an old man now, he has no
51:46
idea. What he said.
51:48
Ocean exactly, Exactly what he said in motion that day.
51:52
No, he doesn't, unfortunately. I wish he did.
51:54
I hope he doesn't. I hope he's not living a life
51:57
where he's like, you know, my life doesn't matter.
51:58
No one ever sees anything that I do.
51:59
It's such a such a one. In reality, he's like, no.
52:01
I'm not you. You know, we're going to learn
52:03
more about the young people that you impacted through your
52:05
career. He's a part of that.
52:08
That's part of him. Well, he impacted me.
52:11
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Impacted you and then you went
52:13
out and impacted a whole bunch of yeah, that's what I'm saying.
52:15
Like, that's amazing, dude. I love that.
52:17
I hope, my hope of all hopes is that somehow he hears this or he
52:21
knows or he heard through the Grapevine something just so he
52:24
knows. Dude, I know he he would tell
52:27
the story. It's so simplistic.
52:29
Yeah. I just ran.
52:29
I don't know why I picked the quarter.
52:30
What an idiot. And ran so hard.
52:32
Why I'd eaten a hot dog before the thing I threw up all my.
52:36
He probably thinks it was like, not that big of a deal.
52:38
I was like, no, bro, your heart, your commitment to do the hard
52:41
thing impacted him, impacted others.
52:45
That's that's like one of these unrequited love story type of
52:48
thing. You know, it's like, oh, man, I
52:49
wish, I wish we could have communicated there.
52:51
Oh man. Just never on the same St.
52:55
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
52:56
Yeah, yeah, exactly right ships. What is it ships in the night or
52:59
something like? That Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
53:00
yeah, yeah. That's good.
53:02
How many years in the middle school and how did it continue
53:04
to grow then now that you get? Some uniforms and some
53:06
attention. I got uniforms and I got serious
53:08
and started, you know, starting to started practicing, you know,
53:11
start having real practices. So at that point we know when I
53:14
committed to it the next spring, I it was a a long term coach.
53:19
It was at the high school. Her name was Jan Taylor and she
53:22
has been a long time cross country and, and track and field
53:27
coach. She also was a primary force
53:29
behind they, they called it the Franklin County Junior Olympics.
53:33
And so it was a competition between the elementary school
53:36
and it was a track and field competition.
53:38
And so they would bring over. And so I started helping her
53:40
with that. Well, as soon as I found out
53:42
that, you know, as soon as I, you know, had committed and then
53:46
after basketball, I called her. So you didn't do.
53:49
You didn't do football and basketball again.
53:50
I yeah, I stayed with all three, you know, for another 4 years I
53:55
think. Wow, did you become?
53:57
A better basketball coach. Not much, not much.
54:01
The players got a little better, but I didn't, yeah, I didn't get
54:04
a whole lot better. Got it, Got it.
54:05
Still that you know. Remember that you know the
54:07
offensive concept. Yeah, yeah, never got.
54:09
There Nope, try and stop off in but you know, you know, so but I
54:15
went over and talked to her. You know, she had a wealth of
54:17
experience. She was a, a great coach and
54:21
she, I went over and said, I need you to teach me how to
54:24
coach these kids, you know, and she basically sat down and, and
54:30
laid out for me the best way, you know, the, the simplest,
54:34
easiest way to start trying to train kids, you know, Her advice
54:37
was train everybody as a 400 runner.
54:39
If you train them all as a 400 runner, they'll be good at, you
54:42
know, blowing up. There's people in 2026 that
54:44
still believe that, so OK, that's.
54:46
Not there are SO and I'm sorry. To interrupt you there because I
54:50
know someone's listening around. I'm going wait a minute.
54:53
That's all I do is Mike's saying that's not well.
54:55
There are certainly, I would say better ways of coaching.
54:57
I will say if you there's way worse ways to coach, if you're
55:03
doing everybody quartermiler, you're going to be hard to get
55:05
an argument from me, to be real honest with you.
55:08
So it's not the worst thing in the world.
55:10
It's actually a maybe that's maybe that's baseline like, oh,
55:13
you know what, that's an average good way.
55:14
I think people are going to have success.
55:15
I think people are going to be happy being on the team training
55:18
that way as well. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
55:20
OK. Sorry.
55:21
And that's what you know and that's what she told me.
55:23
She said if you do that, you know, if you, if you stay with
55:26
that, you're, you're safe. You're safe.
55:30
You're. You're being safe, you know?
55:31
You're, you're not. You're not.
55:33
You're not asking for too much. Yep.
55:34
Hard to get someone hurt. Yeah, yeah.
55:37
And so that's, you know, that's the way I started.
55:40
And then, you know, from that point on, it was, you know, I
55:43
was a sponge, you know, you know, and I, you know, I, I'm, I
55:48
have AI have an affinity and a talent for being able to see
55:51
things and process them and then explain it to to the athlete.
55:58
OK. And then as I started doing that
56:01
and started, you started having a little bit more success
56:04
because when you get organized, suddenly you're getting a little
56:06
better. So suddenly that junior high
56:08
team is not, you know, we're in uniforms, we look good, we look
56:11
sharp. And suddenly we're, you know,
56:14
you know, I'm starting to recruit kids that I know had ran
56:16
in Junior Olympics. So I'm starting to recruit kids
56:18
that showed, you know, showed some talent, you know, you know,
56:21
and you know, when they were earlier, when they were young.
56:24
And so I started, you know, trying to get, you know, I was
56:26
getting athletes and getting people to to run for me, you
56:30
know, run and throw and and jump.
56:32
And so we started developing more of a team at that point.
56:35
So and you know, I just, you know, it grew from there and.
56:40
So even in the junior high level there at this point, you, you've
56:42
got because you, you mentioned the whole team there.
56:45
So you've got obviously blocks and stuff like that and relays.
56:48
Do you have a high jump pit and stuff like that?
56:50
Well, we would, we would. The high school was, you know, 2
56:52
miles away. We would.
56:54
So most of the time we would go over to the high school.
56:56
So there I'm benefiting from the other coaches that are there.
57:00
I'm seeing what they're doing so I can mimic.
57:02
I can mimic and copy what they're doing.
57:04
I hear what I hear their coach speak.
57:05
I start hearing their explanations, their, you know,
57:07
their technical, you know, jargon and then you know, the
57:11
other, you know, the older athletes then are mentoring
57:14
younger athletes, you know, because in my experience, the
57:19
track and field athletes are more caring and more mentoring
57:22
for younger athletes, even though they're competing,
57:25
they're, you know, they seem to be a little bit more caring in
57:27
that respect. I think so.
57:28
There's less, there's less of like with basketball and
57:30
football, you know, there's only 11 spots.
57:31
There's only 5 spots. Yeah.
57:33
So you help a younger. Kid in my pot.
57:34
It's like, man, they may be first string and I go back to
57:36
second string where track it's like hey man, I might be the
57:39
fastest 100m guy. Guess what?
57:40
We can run 1000m guys if coach really wants to so.
57:43
And by the way, if you get faster than me, I'm still going
57:44
to get the run the 100M. Dad, you know, so I'm not, I'm
57:47
not losing my spot. I think the sport lends itself
57:49
to that, yeah. It really does.
57:51
It really does. And, you know, so I, I just, you
57:55
know, tried to evolve, you know, and get better with that and it
57:59
and started trying to compete for, you know, to make those,
58:01
those junior high kids. And then it converted into
58:04
middle school. But when that little, that
58:05
little region meet, we were trying to win, win that region
58:07
meet every year, you know, and then.
58:10
Is there any coaches at besides this what I call peer-to-peer?
58:14
Is there any coaches Ed? Like is there a state clinic?
58:18
Is there a USATF level 1? Anything like that?
58:21
There were there were coaches clinics that started up, but
58:26
this was later on. No, this was not, not early.
58:29
No, not early. So you're still I didn't have
58:31
the benefit of that. Yeah, you're still peer-to-peer.
58:34
Maybe there's a book at the library and again, there's free
58:36
Internet and stuff. There ain't no going and looking
58:37
online and stuff like. That Nope, got it.
58:39
OK. So you know that that's the way
58:42
it start, you know, and then going to meet, you know, seeing
58:44
other coaches that were successful, seeing how they're,
58:46
you know, seeing how they coached their athletes.
58:48
Was there dialogue between between school coaches and not?
58:52
Obviously the high school has a benefit to talk to you because
58:54
your kids are going to go to their place.
58:56
Not very much. Not very much.
58:58
Still very a little guarded. Right.
59:00
OK. All right.
59:01
Yeah, At first it was still guarded because, you know, I
59:05
didn't know, you know, like I, I didn't want to.
59:08
I didn't want to bother them, you know, so I didn't ask a lot
59:10
of questions of them, you know, I would just listen, you know,
59:13
and I didn't, I didn't have enough of a of a relationship
59:15
with, with any. I'm at that point, you know,
59:17
early on because you know, the, the junior high, you know, the
59:21
junior high middle school thing, it was there was not a lot of
59:25
experience. There was not a lot to be gained
59:27
from that. When I was around high school
59:28
coaches there, you know, or went to some of the meets where
59:31
coaches from, you know, some other areas from the metro areas
59:34
that had, you know, a little bit more experience, a little bit
59:36
more, you know, then I could, I could listen more.
59:39
But as far as going up to a coach and a meet and saying,
59:41
Hey, why do you do? Never did that, never have done
59:44
that in my entire in my entire life.
59:46
You know, I'd be too. I would too embarrassed be too
59:48
embarrassed to do that. You know, at a clinic I might
59:51
ask questions, but you know, I you know, I just don't as I.
59:54
Say I know you as an inquisitive person, so that does surprise me
59:58
a little bit, yeah. Yeah, but you know, just a
1:00:00
little, just a little reserved, just a little reserved.
1:00:03
You know when it. Comes to I get that, but but the
1:00:05
reverse, I feel like it's true. If someone come would have come
1:00:08
up to you and I know this has happened for sure and said, hey,
1:00:10
why did you do XY and Z? You would.
1:00:12
You're you're. You're so free to give.
1:00:15
Yeah, yeah. Just interesting that kind of
1:00:17
that dichotomy. Yeah.
1:00:18
OK. All right.
1:00:19
So keep us going through the middle school.
1:00:21
What happens next after that? There was a coaching change at
1:00:26
the high school about 8 years later, an abrupt change, and
1:00:30
then suddenly they call me in and say hey, can you take over
1:00:34
the Larsity team? And that was in 1991.
1:00:38
And there was a one of the guys that I was cutting, I would, I
1:00:42
had moved up, was coaching varsity football at the time and
1:00:44
I'd given up basketball. So I was doing varsity football
1:00:47
and junior high track. And you know, the AD said, you
1:00:51
know, got a coach that's on, that's on staff here, he'll help
1:00:56
you. So now I was running, I was
1:00:58
teaching up to junior high, I'd. Say, still teaching.
1:01:00
Junior high, still teaching junior high, coaching junior
1:01:03
high boys track and coaching varsity boys track.
1:01:07
So we would all come out. So I'm coaching everybody,
1:01:10
everybody, you know, 12 through 12 through 7, OK, with there was
1:01:14
two of us, OK. And so we would split up and the
1:01:17
schedule had already been made. So I, you know, I so we would
1:01:19
have to split up sometimes he would have to do varsity meet
1:01:21
and I would have to take, you know, take the junior high.
1:01:23
That happened a couple of times, but basically it was run a
1:01:26
junior high, you know, practice them all, run a junior high
1:01:28
meet, run a varsity meet, Saturday meet, you know.
1:01:30
And so it was, you know, two or three meets a week, you know,
1:01:33
and then the travel, you know, and, and, and it was involved in
1:01:37
all that. Did you do?
1:01:38
Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday meets.
1:01:41
We would, yeah. A lot of you know, a lot of.
1:01:43
Times. So that's where I I ran in the
1:01:44
90s and that's how we in Alabama, Tuesday, Thursday were
1:01:47
kind of your dual tries and then you'd go to some Invitational on
1:01:49
Saturday. We do.
1:01:50
We do. Tuesday, Varsity.
1:01:51
Thursday, Junior high. Saturday.
1:01:54
Were you hosted meets or were these all away?
1:01:57
Yeah. Oh.
1:01:58
Wow. We were hosted.
1:01:59
Jan was still there. Jan Tatler was still there, and
1:02:02
she had a lot of background. She had a lot of experience so
1:02:04
with hosting mates. So and we had a we had a really
1:02:06
good, we had a good track, Sir. You know, we had, we had a, you
1:02:09
know, we had had a good bit of support from one of the board
1:02:13
members who had sons that were involved in track and field.
1:02:17
And so out of the, you know, in the middle of nowhere, you know,
1:02:21
we have a rubberized track, we have pole vault mat, you know,
1:02:25
decent size. We have high jump, we have
1:02:27
blocks, we have, you know, a discus cage, you know, so it it
1:02:32
was, you know, and a lot of that was that Jan had pushed for it,
1:02:35
you know, and and she had worked for it and she got some support
1:02:38
from, you know, from the board. And so so it was a great, you
1:02:41
know, it was a great way to start instead of having to go,
1:02:43
you know, on a six lane, you know, oh, we're on a six lane
1:02:46
asphalt trash. Yeah.
1:02:48
So, you know, it was it was, you know, so it so that made the job
1:02:51
a lot easier, you know, so then, you know, because we have we
1:02:54
have that stuff did. You know, and maybe to know is
1:02:59
not the right word because you're not dumb.
1:03:00
Meaning you went to other tracks.
1:03:02
Did you appreciate how good you had it in regards to that
1:03:05
facility? Because I know you went to the
1:03:06
places that you're like, oh, man, that that was what we had
1:03:09
them junior high. Like, we could have that here
1:03:11
too, boys. We're lucky.
1:03:12
Did you you kind of had that realization?
1:03:13
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:03:15
I realized that we were, we were very lucky.
1:03:16
And you know, since we had that, we were able to host more mates.
1:03:21
And so people were able to come to us and we didn't have to go
1:03:25
places. And then on Saturdays, you know,
1:03:27
on Saturdays, the Invitational, we would go to Invitational in
1:03:30
places that were palpable, you know, comparable or better, you
1:03:35
know, so we could sit, so we could, you know, we weren't
1:03:37
going to step down. You know, you know, when I when
1:03:40
somebody called me and asked we scheduling on away, mate, I
1:03:43
would ask them what you know, what do you have?
1:03:45
What's your surface? What kind of surface do you
1:03:47
have? You know, you have pole vault
1:03:49
pit, you know, how big are your long jump?
1:03:51
You know, because I was not going to take my athletes to a
1:03:54
place that was 1 unsafe and two was not, you know, was not you
1:03:58
know what we had. So what we what we used to?
1:04:01
You're fully into you're you are track.
1:04:03
I know you're coaching football too, but you're fully This isn't
1:04:06
like I'm a volunteer helping out.
1:04:08
OK, you need someone to cook. You are a you're track coach.
1:04:10
I'm more at this point. I'm bought in.
1:04:12
I'm bought. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:04:13
If you're asking these questions, yeah.
1:04:15
Wow. Yeah, I'm bought in.
1:04:16
So are you? At this point, are you, I'm
1:04:20
going to call it specializing. Like are you paying more
1:04:23
attention to the vaulters? Are you paying more attention to
1:04:25
the throat? Or are you still like, oh man,
1:04:27
I've got to pretty much coach all the events here?
1:04:31
I'm coaching all the events, but I started to lean heavily on a
1:04:36
field event, you know, because I could, you know, I found that I
1:04:41
was at that point, I was able to technically explain and
1:04:45
technically work the athletes a lot better than I hadn't.
1:04:49
I had not developed, I had not developed the, the skill working
1:04:53
with the sprinters yet. And definitely.
1:04:55
And we didn't have much and distance running.
1:04:56
We didn't have much distance running.
1:04:58
Our community had no sidewalks. It was dangerous.
1:05:00
But you mean you just, you know, there's nowhere to run.
1:05:03
So it's not, it's not a you know, it's a farm.
1:05:04
It's a rural farming community. Your parents don't run.
1:05:09
Parents don't run. You don't run.
1:05:10
You know, you know all that is not not corporate jobs, not
1:05:14
white collar jobs. Where?
1:05:15
Oh, I'm stressed, I'm going to go run it.
1:05:18
I'm tired. I've been working all day.
1:05:20
I'm going to come in. I'm not going to go run.
1:05:22
You know, that's the farthest thing from my mind, so makes
1:05:24
sense. You know, there was no running
1:05:25
crazy with us. It's.
1:05:26
Amazing to me what you just described there.
1:05:29
Still like I have to be reminded sometimes what you just
1:05:31
described there was the culture, the culture of the town and how
1:05:35
it affected the track team. Because you're right.
1:05:37
You could easily go do the opposite and go, Oh yeah, maybe
1:05:41
a little bit better to do a neighbor, a town that has more
1:05:44
white collar that oh, I'm, I'm stressed.
1:05:46
They jog, they run 5 KS, you know the community, 5 KS.
1:05:49
Maybe a dad or two is a marathon or mom or dad and the kids see
1:05:52
that and go, oh, I'll run with. Your dad and that's where your
1:05:55
distance kids. And that creates a culture of
1:05:57
distance running. And so it's hard sometimes to
1:06:00
think like, like when we look at other programs and go, man, why
1:06:03
Boy, that that coach more, he should have a ton of distance
1:06:05
runners. They got a lot of talent, blah,
1:06:06
blah, blah. And it's like, yeah, you don't
1:06:08
understand the culture of the whole area even that that's not
1:06:11
we might, you're right, we might have one, but boy, we ain't
1:06:14
going to get him out of the wazoo because we don't have the
1:06:16
culture for it. So it's hard to sometimes remind
1:06:18
yourself that just because some place might look like what you
1:06:22
think it is, it it the the reality is maybe completely 180
1:06:25
to that. So that's an interesting point
1:06:27
to make there. There, there, that that's a,
1:06:32
that's a very, I mean, you know, that was not something I I
1:06:35
realized at first it was something I, you know, over
1:06:38
time, I'm like when there's a reason we don't have distance,
1:06:40
kid, you know, because we don't have a just, you know, there's
1:06:43
not, it's not a running community, right.
1:06:44
Yeah, you know, so, you know, and then, you know, so I
1:06:48
gravitated towards the field events a little bit more, had
1:06:51
some success with the field events and then started having,
1:06:54
you know, then I had some, some talented kids that came through
1:06:56
and started having success, some success with the 402 hundred,
1:06:59
800, some relay stuff, you know. And then I always, always seem
1:07:04
to have a, you know, a AA300 hurdler, you know, that I could
1:07:08
train, you know, I could train up.
1:07:09
It wasn't just speed, rhythm, it was OK, got to have a little
1:07:12
gut, you know, have a little strength, you know, And we won
1:07:16
state, you know, three years later we won, you know, we won
1:07:19
state me, you know, I had a couple of twins.
1:07:21
I had a really good at a really good group, you know, juniors
1:07:24
that year. So we won state, you know, that
1:07:25
year, you know, and you know, then we'll run rough next year,
1:07:29
you know. And in the midst of that, in the
1:07:31
midst of that also had, you know, we were scoring in the
1:07:33
pole vault. I had good throwers, you know,
1:07:35
we're scoring in the throws, you know.
1:07:37
So, you know, we were starting to, you know, we were starting
1:07:39
to look at things and develop things and you know, you know,
1:07:42
make things work. You know what we had?
1:07:44
I don't want to skip over that. Your team won the state
1:07:47
championship. Many, most coaches go through
1:07:49
their careers and don't win a team state title.
1:07:52
Heck, Oh yeah. Don't have an individual state
1:07:54
title. So this is a special thing.
1:07:56
Could you, I mean, I want to think back to when you won the
1:07:58
state meet there. I could you even fathom.
1:08:01
I mean, you go back not to back in the in the past a little bit,
1:08:04
not too far and you're you're a junior high coach that they've
1:08:08
never had a a meet before. You know, I never had a track
1:08:12
coach out of meet, no uniforms, for crying out loud.
1:08:14
And then within a very short amount of time, you're winning
1:08:17
the state title of Georgia. By the way, let's not put down
1:08:20
Georgia high school track and field.
1:08:21
That's been strong for a long time.
1:08:23
That had to be emotional, special, something that had to
1:08:27
be. That had to be significant.
1:08:30
It was. It was for us.
1:08:32
I mean, it was for us, for the, you know, for the athletes on
1:08:34
the team and, and, you know, and for, for me, I was the only
1:08:37
coach at the time. You know, it was, I was out
1:08:39
there by myself. It was, but you know, it was
1:08:45
just another day in the, another day in the community.
1:08:48
You know it's not no parade. As I say, you didn't get a
1:08:51
parade. Yeah.
1:08:52
No, no days off? No.
1:08:55
Did you? Get the design Like did you do
1:08:57
the whole design in the championship?
1:08:58
Ring. No ring, nobody said.
1:09:02
Hey, well, you know, you got to. It's like.
1:09:04
You're Superintendent to come over and say, hey, coach, good
1:09:06
job. Nope.
1:09:08
Shut up. Nope, it's just the way I want.
1:09:11
Because it was track or because that's how athletics were like,
1:09:14
If you'd have done this in football with the same
1:09:17
atmosphere. No, it was because it was.
1:09:18
It was tracking field. OK.
1:09:19
All right. OK.
1:09:21
Wow. I mean you'd literally probably
1:09:23
have a parade today. Rightfully so, by the way, if
1:09:26
you won track state championship.
1:09:28
Now, there's a lot of state championship teams that do, but
1:09:31
you know what I'm saying that in.
1:09:32
General there's a. There's a lot that.
1:09:33
Do man, did that make you feel any way or is it just that's
1:09:37
the? Yeah, it, it, it hurt me a
1:09:39
little bit, OK. It was a little harmful.
1:09:41
Yeah, for sure. And, you know, it made me
1:09:44
question, well, why am I killing myself out here for this?
1:09:48
And then so I had some doubts and then I realized it was, I
1:09:53
was doing it for, you know, those athletes, you know, that's
1:09:57
what I, you know, that that was it, you know, that was the, you
1:09:59
know, that was what was important.
1:10:02
It wasn't anything else. It was, you know, we do what we
1:10:04
do. We do what we do, you know, and
1:10:08
we, you know, so, you know, from that point on, we became, you
1:10:12
know, we became a, you know, pretty competitive and stay
1:10:15
competitive the whole time I was there.
1:10:17
You know, even when we were, you know, even when we were not as
1:10:19
athletic, you know, we would still, you know, we would still
1:10:22
get in there and you know, we might, you know, so we wouldn't
1:10:26
have the depth. You know, we won three region
1:10:28
championships while I was there, you know, one state title, state
1:10:31
runner up. And then, you know, we you know,
1:10:36
you know, my goal was always to finish higher and everybody else
1:10:40
in the region state made because, you know, we were
1:10:43
pulling quality points, you know, and so that's where, you
1:10:46
know, that's where I really started getting into the field
1:10:48
events because I could spend a lot of time and make a big
1:10:52
impact. So at 1, you know, at one point
1:10:57
we won. What did we win?
1:10:59
We won five straight. Oh, vault state title six
1:11:07
straight. Excuse me, six straight.
1:11:09
How many different state title 311-3112 and then 111.
1:11:16
And in the middle of that lost one of my vultures to a, to an
1:11:22
accident, a single car accident. He was a vaulter.
1:11:24
He was returning state champion, two time returning two time
1:11:28
state champion. And he was, he died tragically
1:11:30
in a, in A1 car accident, you know, near his house.
1:11:35
No, we, we lost him. And that was, that was, that was
1:11:39
pretty devastating, you know, but his teammate who was #2 at
1:11:43
the time ended up winning it that year, ended up PRN state
1:11:48
mate jumping really well. And you know, 1, you know, one
1:11:51
state that year and you know, the next year, the next year I,
1:11:58
I transferred the next year, went to a new school.
1:11:59
But you know, it, it was, it was that was that was pretty bad.
1:12:04
I was pretty shocked, but he'd give up that.
1:12:06
He'd give up that state championship to be second in a
1:12:09
heartbeat to. That.
1:12:10
Oh, he would, yeah. Without a doubt.
1:12:11
Without a doubt. You know, it was it was it was
1:12:13
pretty bad, but So what? What?
1:12:15
High school, Are you at? I don't know.
1:12:16
If you Franklin County high school.
1:12:17
Franklin County, OK. And are you still coaching PE at
1:12:20
the middle school though at some point?
1:12:24
Did you? Transfer I did change over the
1:12:28
last yeah, the last six years, So I was 13 last seven years.
1:12:33
So I spent 13 years in junior high slash middle school, the
1:12:36
last seven at at the high school, but I was at the high
1:12:40
school at this point. I was at the high school.
1:12:43
So I moved over to the high school and became defensive
1:12:47
coordinator. Football all the way through.
1:12:50
So I coached football all the way through.
1:12:51
Did. You notice, did this happen?
1:12:55
Did the football team as your track team is getting better,
1:12:59
like going from fledgling to state championship, is your
1:13:02
football team getting commiserately better?
1:13:05
Like I'm like, I don't know how many necessarily crossed over
1:13:07
and did both, but I'm, I am of the thought I was on a podcast
1:13:12
that is for athletic director, high school athletic directors,
1:13:16
and my topic was having a good track and field team improves
1:13:21
your entire athletic department. Like your your baseball team
1:13:24
will get better even though it's the same season, your basketball
1:13:26
team, your football. Like if you have a healthy track
1:13:29
and field program, your entire athletic department will be
1:13:32
better. And commiserately the opposite
1:13:34
is truth as well. If you don't have a very good
1:13:36
track team, I don't think your athletic department can be as
1:13:39
good as it can be. So I'm wondering, as you saw the
1:13:41
track team continue to get better and you're on both here,
1:13:44
the track team and the football staff, did the football team get
1:13:48
better as well? And that doesn't always
1:13:50
translate into wins, as you know, coach, but you can see
1:13:52
athleticism improved. We had better receivers or DBS,
1:13:55
whatever, you know. Did you notice that or or not?
1:13:58
We had a, we had a good run where we were successful across
1:14:04
all those sports. So it wasn't because, you know,
1:14:10
for one main reason is, you know, my athletes were not
1:14:13
single sport athletes. I mean, we're, we're at a AA
1:14:15
school with 900 kids in the school.
1:14:17
So 900 kids, 450 of them might be a, you know, might be male.
1:14:21
You know, I have that 450. You might have 100, you might
1:14:24
have 100 athletes, 100 males that are in athletics.
1:14:29
You know, there's a lot of kids that were athletic, but they
1:14:32
didn't take, you know, they were, you know, they, they had
1:14:34
other, other things, you know, other things that they were
1:14:36
doing, you know, so we were using a lot of the same kids.
1:14:39
So they would go from a lot of them would do like I did, they
1:14:42
would go football to basketball to track and field, you know, or
1:14:45
they would go from football to track and field, you know, and
1:14:47
there were some, I had some vouchers that were just track
1:14:50
and field, you know, they were just pole vouchers, you know,
1:14:53
and and my really successful pole vouchers were just pole
1:14:56
ball, you know, they didn't, they did not, they were very
1:14:58
athletic, but they didn't do other sports because they were
1:15:01
doing, you know, they were they were training, you know, they
1:15:03
were starting to train more year round because they were really,
1:15:06
you know, they were really pushing, you know, they were
1:15:09
pushing, you know, their limits, you know, to try and you know,
1:15:13
you know, try and jump, you know, better than anybody that
1:15:15
jumped in, you know, before at that time.
1:15:17
So I I would have thought that's more of a recent thing and by
1:15:19
recently and maybe even 15 years ago, but no one even back then
1:15:23
there were people, the vaulters specifically, they're like,
1:15:25
yeah, I'm just going to be a vaulter here and, and try to
1:15:27
really maximize this. Yeah, you know, there, you know,
1:15:31
the, the, the top four that I had at that school, you know,
1:15:36
during the last, you know, the last, you know, 5 or 6 years,
1:15:41
you know, that run that I had, they were all, they were all
1:15:44
just, they were just vaulters. They were.
1:15:46
They were just vaulting. But there's no at this point,
1:15:49
pole vault club private coaching tutor like you don't hear what
1:15:54
you know you. It had started.
1:15:55
It had started a little bit. I had, I had one, I had my top
1:15:59
vaulter at the time. He was, you know, during
1:16:02
football season, when I was busy in football, he was training
1:16:05
with, you know, we're training with one of the coaches at UGA
1:16:08
who was doing it was doing some club stuff at the time.
1:16:11
He would do that. He was the, he was the only one
1:16:13
that did that, you know. But he also, you know, he had,
1:16:16
you know, he, he, he, he was more, he was more involved in,
1:16:19
he was the most involved in, in the pole vault of any of the
1:16:22
athletes I ever had, you know, because he was, you know, he
1:16:26
would, he, they would travel Junior Olympics.
1:16:28
They would go, you know, he and his parents, they would go to
1:16:30
everything. You know, Washington his
1:16:32
freshman year, he jumped, you know, he went to Washington and
1:16:34
competed, you know, Balt, you know, Baltimore, you know, he,
1:16:38
he, you know, he, you know, they, you know, they really
1:16:41
bought into it. And so, you know, and so they,
1:16:45
yeah, I had to put my stuff up in the fall.
1:16:47
I was busy, you know, and I didn't, you know, and I couldn't
1:16:49
coach 2 sports at the same time because that was illegal at the
1:16:51
time. And so he was, you know, you
1:16:55
know, he, he wanted to keep vaulting, you know, during,
1:16:58
during that time. So, so he, you know, he searched
1:17:00
out and, and went to vault with Aaron James at UGA.
1:17:03
Yeah, AJ, absolutely. Yeah.
1:17:05
So you you said then after. I mean, I don't know how you got
1:17:08
through the season with the kid passing away that I, I just.
1:17:11
To me that's. Like the most ultimate.
1:17:12
Yeah, absolutely. You said you transferred, you
1:17:15
changed, changed high schools. Where and why?
1:17:21
They recruited me, you know, They asked me, you know, Would
1:17:24
you like to come down here? You had a little bit.
1:17:25
Of success. You deserved that, sure.
1:17:27
It was a, it was a, the right time for my, for my kids too,
1:17:34
for my, for my daughters. One was about to go into middle
1:17:37
school, one was about to go into high school.
1:17:39
And my youngest is still in elementary school.
1:17:41
And my wife and I had decided, my wife and I time had decided
1:17:43
that, you know, we want, you know, we want them to, we want
1:17:48
to broaden their horizons a little bit.
1:17:49
You know, we want a more a more aggressive academic regimen.
1:17:56
And so the reputation of Gwinnett County Schools, this is
1:17:59
a brand new school. You know, they were really, you
1:18:02
know, the Mill Creek was the administration at the time was
1:18:06
really pro everything, you know, pro sports, pro academics.
1:18:10
I mean, they, they wanted to be the best doctor Markham wanted
1:18:13
to be the best everything and really pushed that.
1:18:16
You know, we thought that was, you know, after visiting and
1:18:18
talking to him, we thought it was, you know, the good thing we
1:18:21
didn't move. So I commuted and my kids
1:18:23
commuted with me. And so an hour every day.
1:18:28
An hour. So we would leave in the
1:18:30
morning. We would leave in the morning.
1:18:31
They would sleep all the way down.
1:18:32
And then they would go to school.
1:18:34
Yeah, we go to practice. They'd have to wait around on
1:18:36
me, you know, or my wife might come and get them, you know,
1:18:39
sometimes. But a lot of times it was a lot
1:18:41
of way it was, it was really hard on them.
1:18:42
That's really what Speaking of. Commute What happened to the
1:18:45
chicken farm? Well, still have the property,
1:18:50
but we had we've gotten out of, we have gotten out of growing
1:18:53
the chicken. My dad, my, my mom and dad had
1:18:55
moved over. And so my dad had taken over
1:18:57
most of the operation. And then as he, you know, as his
1:19:00
health declined, we decided, OK, we're just going to, you know,
1:19:02
we don't need so, so we just, you know, we just stopped
1:19:06
brewing chicken. Didn't we had cattle at the
1:19:11
time, you know, and, you know, we were, we were doing that.
1:19:13
But but yeah, it's a little easier, you know.
1:19:15
But he was there. So, you know, it didn't, you
1:19:17
know, didn't require as much of my time, you know, and then, you
1:19:21
know, so, you know, I was able to, you know, spend, you know,
1:19:24
because I was, I would sleep at home.
1:19:26
I would work somewhere else, you know, And that, yeah, that was
1:19:28
about it. There was not a lot of time at
1:19:29
home. Yeah, yeah.
1:19:30
So you have this longer commute with the kids which you know
1:19:34
have to be tough in regards to like you know, just it's the
1:19:36
mundane of doing this hour drive etcetera, etcetera.
1:19:38
But now maybe kind of thinking back, kind of special to spend
1:19:42
that much time with your kids, right?
1:19:43
Like. Even though they were asleep.
1:19:45
I know lots. Of times they're asleep, but you
1:19:47
know one time they'd wake up and she would tell you about
1:19:49
whatever science Class A boy at. One point.
1:19:53
At one point there were four of us because all three of my
1:19:55
daughters, we were in high school and my youngest was in
1:19:58
middle school at that year at that time.
1:19:59
So I had 69 and 12. And so my oldest was driving on
1:20:03
her own. She had a car she was driving,
1:20:04
but still we had a there was, there was, you know, there was a
1:20:07
period of time in there that, you know, we were all four in
1:20:10
the car together. You know, and that it was, it
1:20:12
was, it really was, it was cool for it was hard on them, but I
1:20:15
loved and like I said, you know, even though they were asleep in
1:20:18
the car, I'm still around them. And it was, you know, it was
1:20:21
really good that for me, that was great.
1:20:23
But my my it was different. My wife takes the bulk of
1:20:27
getting the kids to, you know, fishing tournaments and play
1:20:30
practice and all that, mostly because I'm on the road as you
1:20:32
know, Rick. But every once in a while I get
1:20:34
to take or pick her up from play practice or, you know, take him
1:20:38
to whatever, you know thing for him.
1:20:40
And just that, even that 15 minutes in the car there's.
1:20:44
Just. Get to ask questions and listen
1:20:46
and just you know, there's you'll hear something.
1:20:48
Everyone's like I didn't didn't know that it.
1:20:50
So I can imagine just an hour every day be like, man, there's
1:20:52
just you get some good Nuggets, man, that you for sure.
1:20:55
I'm sure probably still tell stories around holiday times.
1:20:58
I remember that one time, you know.
1:21:01
I love that. That's right.
1:21:02
How long were you at this school and. 15 years. 16 years, Is this
1:21:07
where you retired from? It is, yeah.
1:21:10
OK. This is where I retired from.
1:21:11
And where does so you are also a what we call a basket of dealers
1:21:18
that we call a track specialty dealer, meaning you're typically
1:21:21
a one man operation. So you know you're yourself, but
1:21:23
you have extensive background as we have learning and have
1:21:27
learned so far extensive background in track and field
1:21:29
coaching. When did that and how did come
1:21:32
along? I was buying too many poles from
1:21:36
you guys and I needed and I needed to buy more pole and I
1:21:39
needed a discount. And so I called and said what
1:21:45
would it take for me to be a dealer?
1:21:46
Could I get a discount? And so it was outlined at the
1:21:50
time what I could do. So like I can do that.
1:21:53
So I did, I did it basically to try and get, you know,
1:21:56
discounted poll. And then I thought, well, I've
1:21:59
got a lot of friends that, you know, at this point now I've,
1:22:02
I've been coaching a while, but I've got a lot of friends that,
1:22:04
you know, this is about 991999. OK.
1:22:07
I was going to. Ask when's this time?
1:22:08
Yeah, 99, two thousand. And I had a lot of friends like,
1:22:12
well, you know, I could, you know, I can help them get
1:22:15
equipment, you know, or, you know, help them get equipment,
1:22:18
good equipment, you know, for cheap prices where they don't
1:22:20
get ripped off. And that's where it started.
1:22:22
And it just, you know, sort of grew a little bit, grew a little
1:22:25
bit, grew a little bit until I retired until I retired and then
1:22:28
it was able to grow a lot more because I had more time with it.
1:22:30
Yeah, Yeah. It, it grew a lot then.
1:22:32
But that's, yeah, that's basically where it started.
1:22:35
How, how has that transition been for you?
1:22:37
You know, up to this point you have been a very selfless coach
1:22:40
to young people. You know, when I talk to our
1:22:44
dealers that you know, they're the dealers are very much akin
1:22:47
to me and that they want to help coaches.
1:22:49
They, they know they're helping athletes out.
1:22:50
But we're not selling a poll directly to Johnny and Susie.
1:22:53
We're selling to coach who then coaches Johnny and Susie and
1:22:56
things like that. How is that transition been from
1:22:59
serving athletes of call it 14 to 18 year olds to now serving
1:23:04
coaches in a very, very specific niche way in in the the world of
1:23:09
track and field equipment sales? Well, I look at it as I'm
1:23:13
serving track and field, you know, whether it, whether it was
1:23:16
the athletes then or as the coaches now, that's the way I'm,
1:23:21
I'm doing. I'm trying to do my part, you
1:23:23
know, trying to service track and field.
1:23:25
You know, that's where you know, you know, you mentioned the AF,
1:23:27
you know, the surface builders, you know, that's where that came
1:23:31
from. A friend of mine that, you know,
1:23:34
a friend of mine who's a long time coach also who now works
1:23:36
for a, a company, you know, he and I were, we're constantly
1:23:41
talking about, you know, hey, how would you do that?
1:23:45
How would you set this up? He would call me up, you know,
1:23:47
or, you know, he would see something he was consulting on
1:23:50
the job. And so it it basically it turned
1:23:52
into a, a free consulting, you know, half time for he and I and
1:23:58
then, you know, he he was having a conversation with with a, with
1:24:02
one of the architect, with an architect, Sean Huffnagel.
1:24:05
And, you know, he had this and he had mentioned this to me.
1:24:07
He said, man, you know, we ought to be, you know, we ought to put
1:24:10
on a presentation, you know, tell, tell these builders, you
1:24:13
know, this, you know, look at it from our eye.
1:24:16
And so, you know, that's that's kind of where that came from.
1:24:18
And you know, you know, you know, people call me and say,
1:24:24
you know, ask me questions about and not about equipment or about
1:24:26
other people, you know, other, other brands of equipment, you
1:24:29
know, and I, and I'll tell them, you know, or, or they'll ask
1:24:32
where should I put my runway? How long should my runway be?
1:24:34
You know, what's the zero line? You know, and I'll and I'll tell
1:24:37
them because I'm trying to help. I'm trying to help this sport,
1:24:40
this great sport. You know, we haven't mentioned
1:24:43
the fact that I retired in, in, in June of 21.
1:24:48
I've been hounded for you years by the officials to become an
1:24:53
official. So I retired in June of 21.
1:24:56
I got my official certification in July of 21 and start, you
1:24:59
know, and started, you know, and started, you know, officiating
1:25:03
legitimately officiating because in track and field in the state
1:25:06
of Georgia, the coaches officiate everything.
1:25:09
You know, we're we're self official.
1:25:11
And so you know, the joke, the joke I always had was they would
1:25:15
meet me at the bus with a poval clipboard.
1:25:17
It's like hell, he's running the pole hall.
1:25:19
You know, it's like, so it would, it, would it, it, it got
1:25:22
to the point where for about the last 15, I would not go to the,
1:25:25
to the, to the coaches meeting before an Invitational simply
1:25:29
because I was going to make them walk out there and give me the
1:25:31
clipboard. I wasn't going to be in there
1:25:33
and say, Oh, you got this. You're I knew I was going to
1:25:35
have to do it. And I, you know, I, I accepted
1:25:39
that responsibility. So I went on down there and got,
1:25:41
you know, got started and let them bring me the clipboard.
1:25:44
But usually they would hand it to one of my assistants and they
1:25:46
would bring it down. You know, it got so bad that
1:25:48
former athletes of mine that are now coaching, you know, their
1:25:51
first couple of years, Oh, you, you got to do the cobalt because
1:25:54
you were coached by, you were coached by coach Moore.
1:25:56
So you got to know how to do it. Even though he's a thrower, he's
1:25:59
a thrower. They just assumed it by, you
1:26:01
know, they assume that by association with me.
1:26:04
Oh, you got you're going to run the pole vault off.
1:26:06
So how? How did you?
1:26:08
Go so far into pole vaulting versus again, some of the other
1:26:12
events. You know your your name is pole
1:26:14
vault Georgia. I mean you you were right.
1:26:17
And and you know, I'm trying to figure out how to say this funny
1:26:21
and not be offensive, but I know you won't take offense to you
1:26:23
know your 96 vaults are here. So it's not like he was like,
1:26:25
you know, it's so good. And I just want to keep going.
1:26:27
How did how did pole vault take a lot of your track and field
1:26:31
hard? Even though I know you have a
1:26:32
love for all the events? How did Track and field become
1:26:34
the baby? How did?
1:26:36
Pole vault. Become the baby.
1:26:37
Yeah. Thank you.
1:26:39
It was just a, it was, it was the perfect storm.
1:26:43
I had athletes that wanted to do it, athletes that were talented
1:26:47
enough to do it well. And so if they got better, I had
1:26:50
to get better. So because I had to help them
1:26:54
get better and, you know, I didn't want them to go out, you
1:27:00
know, get ahead of me So competitively, I needed to be on
1:27:04
the top of my game. You know, I need to be on the
1:27:06
top of my game. I didn't want to be, you know, I
1:27:08
didn't, you know, I didn't want to be the one that was holding
1:27:11
those athletes back, you know, and I was fortunate enough to
1:27:13
have a, you know, a couple of, you know, early on I had a
1:27:15
couple of, you know, pretty decent vultures that were state
1:27:18
local vultures. And then my third, my third
1:27:21
primary vaulter. He he was the one that was
1:27:25
dedicated. You know, his parents were
1:27:26
taking him to, you know, General Olympics.
1:27:28
You know, he was vaulting all summer long.
1:27:30
He was seeking, seeking out, you know, camps, clinics, extra
1:27:34
coaching. He he became successful.
1:27:37
He became really good. And so I had to keep up with
1:27:40
him. So I had to get better.
1:27:43
And so he won three state title. He was best performance.
1:27:46
He was the best performance at this at our state mate, which
1:27:49
was an award they used to give. So he was the best performance
1:27:51
winner for three years. He was the first vaulter.
1:27:53
He was the first male vaulter in the state of Georgia vault 16
1:27:56
feet. He went 16-3 at the mobile meter
1:27:58
champion. So, you know, he went 15-8,
1:28:01
broke a long time state record, you know, at the state meet.
1:28:05
So, you know, there's no turning back then, you know, and then I
1:28:10
had a then I had a pipeline because I had I had, you know,
1:28:14
his his junior year. He I had my athletes went 1-2 in
1:28:22
the ball. And so the the number 2 Balter
1:28:26
was a football player who played my position, who was a
1:28:28
linebacker. He also was a hurdler.
1:28:31
So he ran the hurdle and he vaulted.
1:28:34
He was a, a, a state state qualifier in the 300 hurdle, not
1:28:39
the 1:10 because he was just, he just wouldn't just didn't have
1:28:42
the speed. He could run.
1:28:43
He was a good solid, you know, he would score for us, you know,
1:28:46
he scored points but but he qualified for the state, you
1:28:49
know, in the 300 year old. But he was #2 you know, he
1:28:51
finished #2 he was a runner up to my, to my, you know, my
1:28:55
number one vault. I actually had 3 * 3 times in my
1:28:59
career when I fit my athletes went 1-2.
1:29:01
That's statemate, you know. So I started, you know, I
1:29:05
started looking for and, and, you know, and recruiting and
1:29:09
getting athletes that fit, you know, fit, you know, fit a
1:29:13
certain mold and, you know, was able to just continue it.
1:29:18
So Brad won three, John Scott won two, Casey won, you know, so
1:29:22
we won six in a row. You know what?
1:29:24
Franklin County won six in a row.
1:29:26
And what's Brad's last name? Smith.
1:29:30
He's at UAB now. I know Brad Smith.
1:29:32
You know Brad Smith. Everybody knows Brad Smith.
1:29:34
I. Taught a level one class and he
1:29:36
we had him come in because I, I was doing the jumps and I don't
1:29:38
know nothing about barely, barely can spell pole vault as
1:29:41
you know, Rick. And so the Oh my gosh.
1:29:45
He was at Birmingham Southern. Yep.
1:29:49
The coordinator of the Level 1, it's embarrassing that I can't
1:29:51
remember his name. That's irritated me.
1:29:54
He knew Brad and he said, well, hey, I've got a guy here,
1:29:57
Birmingham Southern, who's the head coach at Birmingham
1:29:58
Southern that said, hey, my pole vault coach can come in and
1:30:01
coach and teach the pole vault if you like.
1:30:03
And I was like, absolutely. And it was Brad Smith.
1:30:05
And that's how I got to know. And, and Brad said, yeah, Brad
1:30:07
went to University of Georgia. Yep, University of Georgia
1:30:11
there. Where's third, Third nationally
1:30:14
and senior? Where?
1:30:15
Where's he at now? He's at UAB, he's the Bolt UAB.
1:30:19
No, he's not with Kurt. Oh yeah, I got to reach out.
1:30:23
I I liked Brad a lot. I.
1:30:24
Didn't he he? He volunteered.
1:30:26
He volunteered at at Alabama for a while.
1:30:30
He was at Birmingham Southern, volunteered at Alabama for a
1:30:32
while and then now he's at UAB. He coached high school coach
1:30:37
high school for a couple years. He coached, you know, he was a,
1:30:40
he was a high school vault coach one year in Georgia, maybe,
1:30:44
maybe a year at Vestavia, you know, with Richard.
1:30:47
So you know, he won. I think he's, he had a couple of
1:30:50
athletes win a couple of state titles in high school, you know,
1:30:53
and then he, he's coaching at UAB now.
1:30:55
Small. World I really like to you know
1:30:58
I say kid because you know he was young then he's a grown
1:31:00
adult now so Rick I've had other vault coaches tell me that you
1:31:07
know adding girls in woman's vault saved the the the event
1:31:11
pole vaults a lot of times we're talking in the high school
1:31:14
level. What was your involvement of,
1:31:17
you know, you started coaching when girls, not only I shouldn't
1:31:21
even say didn't vault, they weren't allowed, which is still
1:31:24
just bonkers to me. And now Georgia might be one of
1:31:27
the top, I don't know, 678 states that for women's vault
1:31:30
for girls. Vault it's.
1:31:32
Quite amazing, yeah. What was your involvement?
1:31:34
How did that transition happen for you?
1:31:38
It occurred they they added it about my I was about three years
1:31:46
out from leaving Franklin County and I was just a boys coach.
1:31:52
And so I did not coach the what we had to my memory, we had one
1:31:56
girl that that attempted to vault while at Franklin County.
1:32:00
And yeah, I just I, I didn't coach.
1:32:04
I didn't coach somebody else's athlete.
1:32:06
Yeah, yeah. And so there was never an
1:32:07
arrangement. It was happening over here.
1:32:09
Yeah, so it so, so we would vault and then we would get
1:32:12
through vault and then she would come in and do a little bit.
1:32:14
So she was just getting started when I went to when I went to
1:32:16
Mill Creek, though. Now, now we've got, so now I
1:32:20
have to, so now I start coaching, I start coaching the
1:32:22
female. You know, I'm coaching, I'm at
1:32:24
Mill Creek. I was hired to be an assistant
1:32:26
and was going to be the assistant and was going to coach
1:32:29
the hurdles in the vault. And I had males and females.
1:32:34
So I coached all males. So from that point on I coached
1:32:36
all, I coached both genders and never had never, you know, it
1:32:42
was, it was great. It was great experience for
1:32:43
both, you know, and and so it, I guess it was good that I was
1:32:47
that late and that mature into my career before I, you know,
1:32:51
before I took that home, because I probably would not have, I, I
1:32:55
don't know, I think I would have.
1:32:57
But you know, there's a risk that I might have not, have not
1:33:01
have coached, not have coached my female athletes as good, you
1:33:05
know, at that point, you know, earlier than I did at that.
1:33:07
You know, it also helped that it also helped at that time that I
1:33:09
had three daughters. So and so you.
1:33:12
Know that you know now it's like, OK, this is this.
1:33:14
Is normal. Yeah.
1:33:15
My daughter can do it. Anything.
1:33:16
Of course your daughter can do it.
1:33:17
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I get it.
1:33:18
Like, I know some people were vehemently against it because we
1:33:23
didn't have it. I mean, so that tells you
1:33:24
somebody was against girls pole vaulting.
1:33:26
Yeah. Others were very much on the
1:33:28
opposite side, like, you know, fighting for it.
1:33:31
But the. The middle group where it kind
1:33:33
of seems like you fit in at the beginning, you know, that's
1:33:35
culture. It's like, well, we don't have
1:33:36
girls vaulting. So what?
1:33:38
Like, and I and I coach guys like, so you weren't fighting
1:33:40
against it necessarily. Not necessarily you weren't
1:33:42
fighting against it. But then when you get to the
1:33:44
next school, it's like, Oh yeah, you got to coach both.
1:33:46
It's like, because, because then you had a real decision, right?
1:33:48
Because then you could have gone to the to the one side and be
1:33:50
like, no, girls don't vault. I'm not coaching girls, Walter.
1:33:52
Or you go to the other side, like, oh, OK, yeah, they're
1:33:54
they're athletes too. I'm going to coach them.
1:33:56
And you thank God. Thank you.
1:33:57
By the way, you chose this side of like, yeah, OK, good.
1:33:59
They're they're athletes are on my team.
1:34:00
I'm going to coach them. Well, in the, you know, in the
1:34:03
first, you know, when it first started, you know, I was, you
1:34:05
know, I didn't, I didn't coach any girls.
1:34:09
The girls coach, coach the girls.
1:34:12
So it's completely separate. And I didn't want to, you know,
1:34:14
we never had a conversation. If she'd have come to me and
1:34:16
said, hey, she wants to she wants to vault, can you, I would
1:34:20
have done it. But it was, you know, there was,
1:34:22
there was a line there. You know, you don't coach mine,
1:34:25
I don't coach yours. And it was just, and it was a
1:34:27
mutually respected line. And I was, you know, I was
1:34:29
totally fine with it, you know, and, and she would ask me
1:34:32
questions, you know, I would ask her questions about certain
1:34:35
things. But it would never be, would you
1:34:37
coach my athletes? It was never that because she
1:34:40
had her team. I had my team.
1:34:42
And then when, when I took the new job, it was, it was, it was
1:34:47
never even a fault. You're touching girls.
1:34:50
You're touching girls in the eyes.
1:34:51
Like they're all athletes to me. I don't see they're all
1:34:54
athletes. And so, you know, and, and the,
1:34:57
you know, coaching, you know, coaching both together was, you
1:35:00
know, was, really was great. It was great experience, you
1:35:02
know, from that point, you know, from that point on.
1:35:04
So I got to coach two of my daughters that way because two
1:35:08
of my daughters vaulted, 2 of my daughters vaulted.
1:35:10
So. Wait A.
1:35:12
Minute How come? Who's this black sheep?
1:35:13
Why the third one? That vault?
1:35:16
Well, she was the oldest one and she went out for track and she
1:35:23
found out she was a much better organizer and manager than the
1:35:27
track athlete, you know. And so that's, you know, that's
1:35:33
what she decided to do. Are y'all nice to her at
1:35:35
holidays when he gives you got you 3?
1:35:37
Get that chirping about your pole vaulting?
1:35:38
Do you try to include her? We don't even talk about it.
1:35:41
OK, All right, I, I feel for that because I, I, I am the
1:35:44
black sheep in the pole vaulting community, meaning I didn't
1:35:47
vault and I and you know, I sit around and watch a lot of vault
1:35:49
and I'm around a lot of all coaches and I'm just like, what
1:35:51
are they talking about, man? I have no clue.
1:35:53
Want to make sure she was taken care of?
1:35:55
OK. Oh, yeah.
1:35:56
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
1:35:56
We don't sit around. We don't sit around.
1:35:58
Talk about the vault. There's a lot, you know, we're
1:36:00
not. We're not that.
1:36:01
Yeah, I'm not. I'm not that.
1:36:02
I'm not that one-dimensional, you know, We don't.
1:36:04
We don't. Do that I.
1:36:05
Know everything. Everything's got it.
1:36:07
Everything's got it's room. You know, when I'm in that room,
1:36:09
I can talk back. When I'm in this room, I don't
1:36:11
have to talk about that. Amen.
1:36:13
You mentioned you retired in 2021.
1:36:15
How did you and, and you know, we know the, the story continues
1:36:19
after this and we're going to get to that.
1:36:21
But I'm always curious, 'cause you know, I dealt with this with
1:36:24
mutual friend, you know, my mentor, Fred Dixon.
1:36:26
You know, you never, there's no class that you take on how to
1:36:29
retire. Like you don't know how to
1:36:31
retire. That's not something you
1:36:32
practice. It's like it's, it's, it's AI
1:36:34
can't, I'm fearful of the day or days, months that I have to
1:36:39
start contemplating that. You know what it's, it's not
1:36:41
just something you're going to wake up and be like, I'm just
1:36:43
not going to go into work on Monday.
1:36:44
I'm going to retire. How did you come to that
1:36:48
decision? How did you know when the the
1:36:49
time was? Right.
1:36:51
Why 21 not 19? What not 2023?
1:36:53
Why? Why 2020?
1:36:54
One, Well, I, you know, I talked to a friend, mentor, you know,
1:37:01
person I had worked with at Mill Creek and known for a long time,
1:37:03
Jerry Arnold. And he had been retired and I
1:37:06
asked him one day and said, hey, Jerry, how did you And he
1:37:08
retired, I think he taught, taught in coach for 34 years.
1:37:11
So Jerry, how do you know when to retire?
1:37:12
He said you'll know when that's all he said.
1:37:17
Such a terrible answer to my opinion, but OK, yeah.
1:37:19
And that's, and that's what he said.
1:37:21
He said you'll know when, you know, when it's time, you know,
1:37:23
And so it just so happens that that, that that period you said
1:37:29
between 19 and 21 had this little thing called COVID in it.
1:37:33
So, so we had COVID then we had the COVID, you know, we had to
1:37:37
come back from COVID and that was really tough, you know,
1:37:40
because we were, you know, it was a lot, it was a lot being
1:37:44
asked of us, you know, at the time.
1:37:45
And you know, because it was, you know, it was, it was crazy,
1:37:48
you know, it was crazy time and that, that, you know, that took
1:37:51
its toll. And so it was early, early,
1:37:57
early in the fall of 2020. I woke up 1 morning and it just
1:38:02
hit me like, why am I waking up at 4:00 to drive down there?
1:38:08
You know, it's like this is, you know, this is starting to, this
1:38:13
might be the time. And so did you.
1:38:15
Never move. Was this an hour commute?
1:38:17
Never moved. I never moved.
1:38:19
Oh man. I commuted for 16 years, so
1:38:22
several 1000 miles, man. Holy crap.
1:38:26
I did. I did.
1:38:27
That's why I drive a. That's why I drive a Prince.
1:38:28
That's why I drive a Prince. Oh my.
1:38:31
God. But but, you know, and and I
1:38:34
when I woke up that morning, I it just Jerry was right.
1:38:37
I knew it was time. I knew I was at the point where,
1:38:41
you know, I was, you know, going to start getting too tired.
1:38:43
It was going to start. You know, it was not you know,
1:38:46
the cold was starting to get to me.
1:38:47
You know, I can feel practice in Georgia and everywhere as we
1:38:51
start to early. It's cold, you know, and like,
1:38:53
Oh, they can that gets to you a little bit more now.
1:38:55
So it was just, you know, and I thought I was at 36 years at
1:39:01
that point. I thought, you know, I had AI
1:39:03
had a loose goal of trying to go to 40.
1:39:05
You know, I thought 40 would be good because the big round
1:39:07
Number and you know, that would be a whole lot more on the on
1:39:10
the retirement, you know, on the retirement.
1:39:12
But. But, you know, at 36, I'm like,
1:39:14
you know, this, it's a good time now.
1:39:16
It's a good time. And so, you know, I was totally
1:39:20
pleased with it. And so, you know, then I
1:39:22
started, you know, because I didn't plan for it and I didn't
1:39:24
prepare for it. And so, you know, so I had a lot
1:39:28
of catching up to doing that last, you know, 7 or 8 months,
1:39:30
you know, trying to get ready for it, you know, filling out
1:39:33
this, filling out this, doing this, doing this, you know, OK,
1:39:36
what weird funds coming in? What do you know?
1:39:37
What am I going to do next? You know, and, and at that
1:39:40
point, I was like, I'm just going to, you know, I'm just
1:39:42
washing my hands, you know, and people are like, oh, you'll,
1:39:45
you'll, you'll, you'll want to coach, you'll want to do this.
1:39:48
You'll want to start a club. You don't want to do this.
1:39:51
And I'm like, you know, I'm, I'm not sure, you know, I don't
1:39:54
know, maybe I'm not saying I won't, but you know, and then,
1:39:57
you know, that summer I got, I got a call from Superintendent
1:40:01
in Anderson District 5 who had been in Carrollton, who I, who
1:40:04
had known, you know, had known through friends in Carrollton
1:40:07
and, you know, to track and field and.
1:40:12
He called me up and said, hey, we got this little project.
1:40:13
I'll let you come up and look at it, you know, And I said, OK.
1:40:18
And it just so happens that the friend of mine, Craig
1:40:20
Musselwhite, who's involved in in the track building, that he
1:40:24
had called him first and brought him up and tried to try to get
1:40:28
him involved in. It was Craig was not ready to
1:40:30
move and he couldn't commute from across the state.
1:40:33
And so Craig gave him my name. So then Mr. Wilson called me.
1:40:37
And so I came up and, you know, I, we're in this meeting and
1:40:40
there's general contractors and there's financial guys and
1:40:44
there's partners that are, you know, the Y partners that are
1:40:47
going into this project, you know, and then, you know,
1:40:50
they've laid up on the board. And then I remember looking at
1:40:53
and thinking, I am definitely out of my wheelhouse now.
1:40:57
You know, I coached cross country, you know, a couple of
1:40:59
years, you know, last couple years I coached, you know, just
1:41:03
a couple years. But it was, you know, it was a
1:41:05
little bit, it was better than the basketball experience.
1:41:08
But, you know, I really didn't know how much I did.
1:41:11
Yeah, but I really didn't have a lot of time with it, you know.
1:41:14
But, you know, I, you know, I did have a wealth of knowledge
1:41:17
because I started hosting a lot of meat, you know, when I was at
1:41:21
Milk, you know, we hosted at Franklin a lot at Mill Creek, we
1:41:23
hosted 4 times as many meat. And so I knew about, I knew
1:41:26
about, you know, you know, me director, I knew about setting
1:41:29
up. I knew about all of that, all
1:41:32
the preparation, you know, and so that makes sense to me.
1:41:36
OK, yeah, I can prep for me. I can get ready for me.
1:41:38
I can organize, I can schedule, you know, those are things that
1:41:41
I can do, you know, And then as we, as we got into it and
1:41:45
consulting, they start asking my opinion on things and start
1:41:47
asking my input. You know, I started relying, you
1:41:50
know, I started relying back on, you know, things that I had
1:41:52
done, you know, things that I like, trail runs that I had
1:41:55
done, you know, you know, that type of thing.
1:41:58
Cross country courses. I've seen, you know, I've been
1:42:00
officiate, I've been helping officiate at state mates, you
1:42:03
know, and, and, and had experience with that and seeing
1:42:05
good big mates, you know. So I had a, you know, I had a,
1:42:08
you know, and at that time I'm a lot more mature and a lot, you
1:42:12
know, level headed and could think better, you know, which
1:42:15
is, you know, not to be underrated at all.
1:42:18
And so, you know, I had a better vision about what it could be
1:42:22
and as, as it developed, you know, my skill set development
1:42:25
with it also. And so I was able to, you know,
1:42:28
put put all those things together with it, you know, and
1:42:31
come up with it. You know what, what turned out
1:42:33
to be, you know, a great course. Now I can't take credit for the
1:42:36
course itself. The designers did that.
1:42:38
I just had some input along with it, you know, to say, hey, is
1:42:41
there any way we can do this or let's not do that, you know?
1:42:44
But they basically, you know, they sit on their computers.
1:42:46
They went to school for it, They passed organic chemistry and all
1:42:50
that stuff. They were able to, they were
1:42:51
able to, you know, they did all that.
1:42:53
I didn't design the course. I just made sure, hey, that's a
1:42:55
great idea. That's good.
1:42:57
Can we do this? Now appeal behind.
1:42:59
Let's look behind the curtain a little bit because, you know,
1:43:01
I'm so simplistic and as little experience as you think you had
1:43:05
with the cross countryside, I would have even less than that,
1:43:07
Rick. You know, I think like, oh, you
1:43:10
want to make a in this? The idea here, I believe, was to
1:43:12
have a a championship cross country season.
1:43:15
Not, I don't want to say just a cross country course, but you
1:43:19
know, something that could handle state meets, maybe NCAA
1:43:22
type meets, regional, things like that.
1:43:24
We'll learn more here in a second.
1:43:25
But I still would have been like, oh, OK, you need a lot of
1:43:28
land. Like I start in my head
1:43:29
picturing a golf course because, you know, a lot of cross.
1:43:31
Country that's that's OK. You need a lot of.
1:43:34
Land, you know, to make an interesting it'd be nice if it
1:43:36
had some kind of hills and things like that.
1:43:38
I would maybe only because of my experience with the University
1:43:42
of Wisconsin program with Zim who designed their cross country
1:43:48
course there. So I so I was with him.
1:43:50
Well, not not while they're designed it, but I've been with
1:43:52
him and he's talked about why we did a switch back here and all
1:43:54
these kinds of and and fans was a lot of his.
1:43:56
So I will, I would have thought about like, OK, where, how how
1:43:59
will people be able to see as much as the course as possible,
1:44:02
things like that. But I would have been ultimately
1:44:04
been like, all right, just take a big mower, mow through, mow
1:44:07
the path. Probably need some spray paint
1:44:09
so the athletes know where to run and and I probably would
1:44:12
have mailed it in there. What are some of the other
1:44:14
things that you guys and that you were involved in that you
1:44:18
had to think about? I'm thinking parking, bathroom
1:44:21
Reg. I don't know.
1:44:22
There's all that other things. Yeah.
1:44:23
What are some of the other things that you have to actually
1:44:25
think about? All that we, we irrigated part
1:44:28
of the course, the large part of the course where we have a large
1:44:31
start area because it rains, because, because we run into a
1:44:34
lot of drought, drought period. You know, during our, during our
1:44:37
growing, you know, so there was, you know, parking.
1:44:41
Parking had already been addressed because we're in
1:44:45
conjunction with the YMCA sports park here.
1:44:48
And so we share parking. So then it was OK, how do we get
1:44:51
from parking? How do we get back to the course
1:44:53
because our parking is a half a mile away from where where it
1:44:56
started. You know, I, I, I did have a lot
1:44:59
of input on spectator area, you know, and I made it spectator
1:45:02
areas that clear, you know, it's clear sign, you know, Clearview
1:45:05
as much as much of the course. You know, a lot of that was I
1:45:08
just got out here and I walked around and as the course
1:45:11
developed, I, I envisioned, OK, here's my finish line.
1:45:15
I got, I can. I got viewing on both sides.
1:45:17
How else could you? Yeah.
1:45:18
Yeah, I've got to have, I've got to have barriers here so they
1:45:21
don't come out. I've got to have flagging.
1:45:23
So it was put together, the amount of flagging I'm going to
1:45:26
have, how much pain am I going to need?
1:45:28
You know, how much pain am I going to need?
1:45:29
You know, measurements, you know, where's my start line,
1:45:32
Where's my finish line? How do I go about that?
1:45:34
You know, how to come up with alternate courses.
1:45:35
How do I go from, you know, 5K to a 3K?
1:45:38
How? Do.
1:45:39
I go, how do I go to 6K8K? You know, when we know when this
1:45:43
fall, you know, when we're going to have, you know, a college
1:45:46
meet this year, hopefully this year university, you know, it's
1:45:49
like, OK, we got to develop those courses, you know, and
1:45:51
then it's care for the course. And we were fortunate that we
1:45:55
started. We've got a 10m, we've got a 10m
1:45:57
course width wise. So there's no, there's only one
1:46:00
part of the course that's not ten meters wide.
1:46:03
So it's not one track, two track, three track, it is 10
1:46:05
meters. So if you want to pass, you got
1:46:07
plenty of room to pass, you know, then it was, you know,
1:46:11
we've got all that. We've got that side.
1:46:13
We've got a large start area. I've got a 280 foot, you know,
1:46:16
284 foot start line. I've got 500 and 55154 meters
1:46:20
before my first turn, you know. So it's all these things, you
1:46:23
know, trying to trying to kind of input all these things that
1:46:26
great courses use, you know, like McAlpine, Huntsville, you
1:46:29
know, Tallahassee, you know, we had some, some of the people
1:46:32
involved in, in, in, in this project, they went to
1:46:35
Tallahassee and looked at the course, looked at the talk.
1:46:39
Yeah, talk, talk to the, you know, talk to the, the lady that
1:46:42
was running, we had conversations with her.
1:46:44
You know, what would you do? You know, what would you do
1:46:46
better is like if I, if I'm pulling, if I'm pulling, if I
1:46:49
think I need 48 strands of, of, of fiber optics put in 96, I can
1:46:55
put more, put more, you know, so, you know, I had input on,
1:46:59
you know, speaker system. I needed communication to be
1:47:01
able to go, you know, throughout the course.
1:47:03
I needed speaker system that I could control, that I could, if
1:47:06
there was an emergency that I could circumvent any
1:47:09
walkie-talkie, any handheld mics or any of that, you know, so I
1:47:13
could do that. I wanted, you know, a sound
1:47:16
system that I could play music when meets are going on, play
1:47:19
music when things are out here practicing, you know, to get,
1:47:22
you know, just go a little extra mile.
1:47:23
I wanted, I wanted pedestals and you know, so that I could put
1:47:26
timing clocks not just at the finish line, but throughout the
1:47:29
course. So at this point I try and put a
1:47:31
couple of clocks out in addition to the finish line clock, you
1:47:34
know, so, you know, just things like that and the expandability.
1:47:37
You know, we, we, we thought about, you know, after looking
1:47:41
at Tallahassee, we need video capability if we ever want to
1:47:44
stream a big mate. So we ran video capability at
1:47:47
all our pedestals and then back to our server area, you know,
1:47:50
so, you know, there were all those things and then it was OK,
1:47:53
where we going to put Portage on?
1:47:55
You know, we have big meat where we're going to put them, how
1:47:56
many we're going to put there. There will always be more porta
1:47:58
Johns than we need because I'm not going to have somebody
1:48:00
complaining because we didn't have porta Johns.
1:48:02
We have bathrooms around. We have bathrooms and concession
1:48:04
area around, you know, around our, you know, our sports park
1:48:07
facility. But we wanted bathrooms
1:48:09
accessible there, you know, and then now it's turning into, you
1:48:12
know, how, how can I make it? How can I make everything look
1:48:14
better? You know, how do I make, you
1:48:16
know, how do I make the course look better?
1:48:17
You know, how do I, you know, how do I, you know, I'm the
1:48:19
grounds, I'm the main grounds keeper.
1:48:21
You know, I cut the grass, I cut the weeds, you know, you know
1:48:25
all these things, you know, and then is.
1:48:26
That a like, I'm thinking about this because I was going to ask
1:48:29
you is like, is there a, a preferred, a best practice type
1:48:32
of grass? And then I'm wondering like is
1:48:34
maintenance of the grass not maybe not just the path that the
1:48:37
runners are on, but maybe even your natural scape?
1:48:39
Is that like a year round thing that you've got?
1:48:41
To be working on, Oh, well, you know, it's, I'd say it's year
1:48:47
round because you know, like today I went out, found some low
1:48:51
spots, handed them, you know, so I top trash right now.
1:48:55
Everything's dormant. So nothing's growing because we
1:48:56
had, you know, pretty cold December, you know, December,
1:48:59
January, pretty cold. So everything's got, you know,
1:49:00
but I was cutting the, you know, the, you know, the Bermuda has
1:49:03
gone completely dormant, you know, but the fescue and the
1:49:05
weeds that are on the, you know, in the other area, you know, in
1:49:08
the, in the rough area or the spectator areas, you know, that
1:49:11
would still grow, you know, the cold stopped, you know, so I
1:49:14
haven't had to cut it, you know, and in probably, you know, 4
1:49:16
weeks, you know, we were warm the past two days.
1:49:19
I'm probably going to start cutting, you know, I've got fire
1:49:21
ants popping up because of the snow, major ground.
1:49:23
So I've got, you know, tomorrow is fire Ant day.
1:49:25
I'm going to put, you know, go out and sprinkle the fire Ant,
1:49:28
you know, fire ants all over the, you know, the whole 22
1:49:31
acres. So or, you know, S, you know,
1:49:35
South Carolina fire ants too. They've got but, you know, and
1:49:41
then, and then in the summer it, I'm supporting the teams that
1:49:44
are coming out training, you know, so they got morning run.
1:49:47
So I'm here in the morning. I set up where you going to run
1:49:49
today? I'll get you.
1:49:50
I was thinking the meats only. Yeah.
1:49:51
You have practice? No, I said I said I support them
1:49:54
during practice. I'll make sure that you know I'm
1:49:57
there, you know, while they're practicing in case there's an
1:49:59
emergency. You know, I've got the AED with
1:50:01
me. You know I've got the you know,
1:50:03
I've got a a vehicle that if somebody were to go down, I need
1:50:05
to get them somewhere I can get them back, get them in the
1:50:08
cooling, you know, so you're thinking about thinking about
1:50:10
all those things for safety, for the athletes, support the
1:50:12
athletes. You know how you know, have, you
1:50:14
know, have it set up for what they want to do, You know, and
1:50:16
then when we get to meet, it's OK putting out flags, you know,
1:50:22
putting out flags in the curves. I double, I double line the
1:50:26
entire course. So I paint lines on both sides.
1:50:28
You're like, like you said, it's I'll paint a line.
1:50:31
No, I line the entire course. I'll make it look like every bit
1:50:34
of the course, even on the farthest stretch on the outside,
1:50:37
on the outside of, you know, outside line.
1:50:41
Nobody's going to run out there. But it's got a line on.
1:50:43
There's a line, you know, so it and it's not, you know, I mean,
1:50:47
that's like. I know what it.
1:50:48
Looks like and this is important.
1:50:49
When you do something that's like, man, no one's ever even
1:50:51
going to see this, no one's going to use it.
1:50:53
But when you still do it, that to me is like that, oh, like if
1:50:56
I see that I go, oh, they certainly didn't miss out on the
1:50:58
other 99% thing because they thought about this 1%.
1:51:01
So that's first class type stuff.
1:51:03
Well, I had to cut. I had to cut a heel that was I
1:51:07
shouldn't have got AI shouldn't have got a mower on, but I did
1:51:10
it anyway. And it's a heel nobody ever see.
1:51:12
It's a hill nobody walks on. But it was getting too high and
1:51:15
it didn't fit. So I cut it, you know, and
1:51:19
there's some of the things I hadn't been able to get to, but
1:51:21
just I just, you know, but you know, this this winter, you
1:51:24
know, there's a hillside over here that I can't get a mower
1:51:26
on. Well, I got a hedge.
1:51:28
I've got a hedge trimmer on a weed eater and I've been hedging
1:51:30
it, you know, and cut it and it's big because weeded won't
1:51:33
work on it because it's too thick.
1:51:34
It's big thick stuff, you know, so I've been, and I'm about 3/4
1:51:38
away done on it. So you know it, it'll be done.
1:51:41
You know, I probably won't be able to get to it, you know,
1:51:43
when, when I'm cutting everything else.
1:51:44
But at least it'll slowly, you know, it, it won't overpower.
1:51:48
It won't go from where it is now, even more overpowering.
1:51:50
So you know, I'm trying to, you know, there, there's some things
1:51:53
I want to do in the, in the wooded areas to make that look
1:51:56
better, you know, and that's a, that's a goal for me between now
1:51:58
and next year is clean up those areas.
1:52:00
So when it's hot, if people want to walk, you know, and make it
1:52:03
look more like a, you know, like a picturesque forest rather than
1:52:08
one where this tree's falling down, this tree's falling down,
1:52:10
this one's growing this way. Oh, like this root belt, you
1:52:12
know, root balls up this way, you know, oh, there's, there's
1:52:15
thorns here, there's briars there.
1:52:17
You know, try and clean it up to where it, you know, it looks, it
1:52:19
looks more picturesque even though it's an area nobody goes
1:52:22
in. You mentioned fire ants.
1:52:24
Do you have other concerns of with other animals, deer,
1:52:28
rabbits, anything like that, or those just don't even come
1:52:31
around you? Have to work all over the place.
1:52:34
They're here. They're just, you know, they're
1:52:37
not doing anything, but they're not doing anything bad.
1:52:39
I've seen they're scared of me though.
1:52:40
I've seen a video of a deer attacking a cross country
1:52:43
runner. Well, we scare them off when
1:52:45
when we get out here, so. OK, that's.
1:52:47
We have. We haven't had any.
1:52:48
We haven't had any episodes yet. Have you seen that video that
1:52:50
I'm? Talking about, I have not do I
1:52:52
have not. It's it's a crazy single.
1:52:54
It's a. Wait a minute, I think I have.
1:52:55
I think I have the deer. The deer ran through.
1:52:58
Just in. Class The deer wasn't attacking.
1:53:01
The deer got scared. I was running away.
1:53:03
The story is better if I say it's attacking because that kid
1:53:06
certainly felt like he was attacked because he got trucked
1:53:09
like he was playing football. He got, he was.
1:53:11
Just like, God, I got another mile to go.
1:53:15
And that has to tell that story. He's probably an adult now.
1:53:17
He's like, you know, yeah, I got attacked by a deer.
1:53:23
OK, we have no, no deer attack. Let's no deer.
1:53:28
That should be your the motto. No deer.
1:53:30
No. No, you know, 1100. 1800 days,
1:53:35
no deer attacks instead of no accidents.
1:53:38
That's good. I like that.
1:53:40
That's a good idea. And one day I'm going to show
1:53:41
up, be like, why does that say one?
1:53:42
What happened yesterday? We had.
1:53:44
We finally had one. Finally happened.
1:53:47
It happened. All right, Rick, we touched, we
1:53:51
touched on this, but I do want to bring it back a little bit
1:53:54
here as we start to wrap up. So then here recently you were
1:53:59
session at the American Sports Builders Association.
1:54:02
Yeah, where where were we? Were we Dallas OR Antonio?
1:54:04
San Antonio, I forget where I am half the.
1:54:07
Time. Yes, I sometimes forget where I
1:54:10
am, like I'll be like, what city my Oh yeah, Philadelphia.
1:54:13
Like, I understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:54:16
American sports builders. Great.
1:54:17
One of the most fascinating things to me about the ASBA
1:54:19
convention is the coaching, I should say coaching education,
1:54:22
the professional development side of it, because there are no
1:54:25
coaches there. You know, in in essence, there's
1:54:27
no coaches there. Guys, it's it's literally
1:54:29
contract. Think about your surfacers
1:54:31
buying in and Mondo, all those guys are there.
1:54:34
Vernon Jones, who you may not even know who that is a big
1:54:36
construction company for athletic facilities.
1:54:38
Those guys and gals, that's who's there builders.
1:54:40
Builders, architects, installers.
1:54:43
Installers. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
1:54:46
Like we're there gills there because of our in ground
1:54:48
equipment. So hammer cages.
1:54:50
We do baseball, you know, football goal posts, things like
1:54:52
that. That's why we're there.
1:54:53
So think those kind of people. So no, no coaches in in in
1:54:56
essence. And then I see on the marquee
1:55:00
the the schedule for the day that Rick Moore is going to be
1:55:02
at this. And I'm like, what in the world
1:55:04
is Rick? What is Coach Moore going to be?
1:55:05
If he's not an installer? What in the world is he doing
1:55:08
there? Which I ask that a lot whenever
1:55:09
I see Rick around. What is Rick doing here?
1:55:11
What am I doing here? And the title was a coach's
1:55:13
perspective. Now, here's why I love this.
1:55:15
And Rick, I told you about this before your session, you know,
1:55:19
as I work in all aspects of track and field.
1:55:22
So the construction even to the all the above ground, the fun
1:55:26
stuff, the pits, poles and hurdles and things like that.
1:55:28
The thing that bugs me the most is typically when you're
1:55:33
building a new facility, it is in two different phases.
1:55:36
There's the construction parts that's getting the surface,
1:55:39
anything that goes in the ground.
1:55:41
So vault boxes, take off boards, the cages, generally sand pit
1:55:45
forms, that kind of stuff. And then there's the post, the
1:55:49
above ground part of it. And again, that's where the kind
1:55:51
of the air quotes, the fun stuff is the pits and hurdles and the
1:55:54
standards design and those what colors and graphics and all that
1:55:57
kind of fun stuff. 99 I might be exaggerating and it should be
1:56:02
100 to be real honest to you. Most of the time the in ground
1:56:06
portion, the track coach is never consulted.
1:56:11
They never talked to the track coach.
1:56:13
And here's this travesty to me is I have seen so many errors
1:56:20
that the coach would have caught if they would have just been to
1:56:23
the the very guy and gal that's going to be on that track every
1:56:26
day. They say, hey, coach, just hang
1:56:28
tight. When we get to the hurdles and
1:56:30
pole vault pit, we'll we'll come talk to you.
1:56:32
But they don't ask about have the code, the track coach
1:56:35
involved to talk about prevailing wind.
1:56:36
So where are you going to put those vault boxes?
1:56:39
Where how many of take off boards should there be?
1:56:42
How should your discus cage be centered for the sector for
1:56:47
safety and things like that? So when you were up there and
1:56:51
your and tell me your friend's name, I I met him.
1:56:52
Craig Much away, Craig. Was that Craig, the long time
1:56:55
coach? Yeah, and.
1:56:56
And where? Where does he work now?
1:56:58
It's it's. He works for Sport Turf, Sport
1:57:00
Turf company. And you know, long time track
1:57:02
coach. I got to meet him after the
1:57:03
presentation as well. Like to me, I was so like, you
1:57:08
gave me hope and damn you if this goes wrong that maybe those
1:57:12
guys and gals in that room would listen to you.
1:57:14
And now when they go to do the next project, at least interview
1:57:18
the track coach about the facility.
1:57:21
You know, that was our that was our main emphasis right from the
1:57:25
start is communication. Even you know, Todd, who was,
1:57:29
you know, the only the CEO of sports serve.
1:57:32
That's what he said. He said talk to somebody.
1:57:34
You may be the smart and it may, but it may come down to you're
1:57:37
the smartest person in the room. Use some common sense to make a
1:57:39
decision. To your point, it goes, it goes.
1:57:43
It's before the in ground, it's the layout.
1:57:47
Yeah, Yeah, They don't. They don't ask.
1:57:48
About when I say in ground, that's what I mean is layout,
1:57:51
yeah. Yeah, yeah.
1:57:51
It's not just not, it's it's from concept where where did
1:57:56
coach? Where do you want your runway?
1:57:59
You know, and then and then from then on, you know, and you know,
1:58:02
there, there are multiple instances that I, you know, I
1:58:04
personally have seen where coaches were not included.
1:58:09
There's instances where coaches tried to get included and we're
1:58:12
told to butt out. And a lot, most of the time that
1:58:18
is not from the builders doing telling them that it's, it's
1:58:22
their, you know, their administration.
1:58:24
Yeah, they're financial people. They're construction people that
1:58:27
they're with the district that tell the coach that we don't
1:58:29
need your opinion. The builders.
1:58:31
I don't think the builders have ever said that.
1:58:33
You know, there might be some coaches that builders would
1:58:36
like, OK, you're you're getting a little bit, you know, you're
1:58:38
getting a little too much. And that's, and you know, and
1:58:42
that's true. That's the own point with that.
1:58:44
That probably doesn't happen, you know, But I think it, I
1:58:47
think it, it's more toward the other way that coaches are not
1:58:50
allowed to have input. Certainly out of 100 coaches who
1:58:53
would be involved, certainly one or two would be excessive like
1:58:56
Coach we. This is just unreal.
1:58:57
You don't understand the building process.
1:58:59
This is not. Possible, and those are
1:59:00
typically the ones that are not experienced.
1:59:01
However, that might be true. However, we shouldn't punish the
1:59:04
other 9899 coaches that could, could save you money, make your
1:59:11
facility more useful if they not even overly involved, just be
1:59:16
involved. And so I always lead with our
1:59:18
coaches. I'm like, Hey, man, you know,
1:59:20
don't get yourself fired, not telling you to do that, but you
1:59:23
need to be knocking on that door of your AD facility AD whoever
1:59:26
your project manager and just be like, Hey, can I help at all?
1:59:29
You know, I've, I've, I, I've done this for X amount of years.
1:59:31
B, I'm going to be on that track every single day.
1:59:35
Could we just have a a discussion about it be involved?
1:59:40
That's a great point. And you know, that's what Craig
1:59:42
and I really, you know, really hope that that the builders
1:59:45
would start asking for that and that they would, you know, take
1:59:49
the that they would take the side of the coach and and try
1:59:52
and, you know, promote. Hey, we need some involvement
1:59:54
from the coach, you know, You know, but to that point also a
1:59:58
lot of times, hey, we need involvement from that coach and
2:00:00
that coach is their first year. They're brand, they're they're
2:00:03
right out of school. They don't, they can't do it.
2:00:05
You know, we said. You know, so we told the.
2:00:06
Builders. It's less involvement for that
2:00:08
person, sure. Right, So, so we told the
2:00:10
builders, find somebody in the area that's a that's a, that's
2:00:14
an experienced coach and just ask their opinion.
2:00:16
Hey, could you come over here one day and, and just look at
2:00:18
this, We'd like your opinion, you know.
2:00:22
Yeah. And then, you know, hopefully,
2:00:24
you know, hopefully this will, will blossom and we can, you
2:00:28
know, during our presentation, you know, we would we would
2:00:32
bring up, OK, this is what this is how we would see this.
2:00:36
This is a better way to see this.
2:00:38
And we were hoping that, you know, that, that the builders
2:00:40
and installers would at least stop and say, oh, yeah, that
2:00:43
makes sense to me. Yeah, that makes sense.
2:00:46
You know when Craig, when Craig asked the question and this is a
2:00:48
pretty telling statistic, when Craig asked the question, how
2:00:50
many people, how many of you builders, installers have been
2:00:53
to attract me and there were not many hands that went up.
2:00:56
Wait a minute, wait a minute. So you're building something
2:00:59
multi $1,000,000 facility and you've never been to the event.
2:01:04
OK, So that's like asking somebody to build a baseball
2:01:07
field and they've never watched a baseball game.
2:01:10
Who would do that? Whatever would happen?
2:01:12
Never. Oh, I'm a baseball fan.
2:01:13
I've followed them my whole life.
2:01:14
So you know, like, you know, you know, the the the the
2:01:19
subconscious Ant was, hey, go to a track meet and see what see
2:01:22
what happened. But, you know, so hopefully, you
2:01:26
know, in conversation, you know, it's a few conversations we had
2:01:29
later, you know, and we ran over, we wanted to answer more
2:01:31
questions, but we ran over. We, you know, Craig and I talked
2:01:34
too long and, you know, but we did have some questions
2:01:37
afterwards. And it was like, well, what
2:01:38
would you do in this case? What would you do in this case?
2:01:40
And it's like case by case, you know, case by case scenarios,
2:01:45
you know, then Craig, afterwards you said, you know, you and I
2:01:48
just need a, you know, we need to form a consulting business,
2:01:50
you know, and you know, we just put ourselves out there and I
2:01:53
said, Craig, Craig, that's a great idea.
2:01:55
I need one more thing. That's exactly what I need.
2:01:58
One more thing I said. You get it set.
2:02:02
Up, I said you get it set up, you get it all set up.
2:02:06
You get the incorporation, you get it incorporated, you get the
2:02:09
bylaws, you get it all set up. He's not wrong.
2:02:12
He's not wrong. He's not wrong.
2:02:14
There are outside, you know, when you're dealing with a
2:02:16
binding Mondo Fisher, they do a great job record Tan.
2:02:19
You know, they've done so many tracks, they have a really good
2:02:23
handle on each individual. And, and because they understand
2:02:26
like, you know, a track is not just a track, what, what happens
2:02:28
over in Georgia is different than what's going to happen in
2:02:30
Washington, certain aspects of Texas, etcetera, wins what's
2:02:34
underneath the ground, all these kind of things, right?
2:02:36
And there's about a handful of independent track consultants
2:02:40
like that will help, you know, with the facility and they are
2:02:44
invaluable, worth their money. 10 * / I have seen them say
2:02:48
because I've been involved with them in a lot of projects.
2:02:50
I've seen them save the project thousands if not in in aggregate
2:02:54
millions of dollars off of FL. I'm sure so but there.
2:02:58
But there's literally a handful. Yeah, there is, you know, and
2:03:01
you're, you know, and you're to your point, you're also talking
2:03:04
about the big builders that are building the UGA, the A&M, you
2:03:07
know, and we were talking, you know, we were talking to the
2:03:10
builders that, you know, that work in high schools.
2:03:13
They're working for school districts.
2:03:15
That's right. You know, they're working for
2:03:16
public schools, private schools. They're the smaller companies
2:03:19
that are doing 2030 tracks a year every year, you know, and,
2:03:22
and are involved in, you know, in the, in the football field,
2:03:25
you know, changing over from, you know, natural to Syntec.
2:03:28
So, so that's who you know, we're talking to because they
2:03:31
don't have that they don't, you know, you know, they're also,
2:03:33
you know, the colleges. I know for a fact that UGA, they
2:03:35
did a wind study, you know, before they put before they put
2:03:38
the layout of the track, they put a win.
2:03:39
You know, for us, it's I got to go ask, you know, I got to ask
2:03:43
who stands out there all day long, You know, where's the wind
2:03:45
come from all the time? Where is your trash?
2:03:47
Blood when you set up, how do you want?
2:03:49
Yeah. Yeah, when you set.
2:03:50
So you know you're asking. So now, now you come in a
2:03:53
builder. Well, it'll fit over here.
2:03:55
Oh, it looks good over here. But now wait a minute, you're
2:03:57
going straight into the wind. So, you know, that's who, that's
2:04:00
who we were, that's who we were trying to trying to reach where
2:04:02
you know, the smaller, the smaller builder installer
2:04:05
they're doing for the smaller project.
2:04:07
Talking this out, it makes me actually think, I think it was a
2:04:09
great place to start and I'd encourage us to for asthma and
2:04:13
other people involved to continue doing these kind of
2:04:15
conversations. But it makes me now think that
2:04:17
maybe you guys need to take your show on the road and you
2:04:19
actually need to be talking to our athletic directors because
2:04:22
they're the ones that typically will be able to to to stop or
2:04:26
involve the track coach in these discussions.
2:04:29
The the builders feel like that they would list they they're not
2:04:32
going to actively seek out the coach, but they would listen to
2:04:35
the coach if they were involved. But that coach isn't going to be
2:04:38
involved unless the athletic director that.
2:04:40
Might be where it does the message to continue.
2:04:43
That's a very astute point because the builders are not
2:04:47
going to do anything to jeopardize the the being able to
2:04:51
get the job right. So if the, you know, if the
2:04:55
administration, if, you know, if the district says we want to do
2:04:59
this, you know, they can say, hey, let's wait a minute, you
2:05:02
know, but they're, you know, they can't say no, that's
2:05:05
stupid. We can't do that because we got,
2:05:07
we got to pay bills, get the job.
2:05:09
We got to pay bills, we got to get the job.
2:05:11
We get the job. Now we're trying to make a
2:05:12
little, you know, now we're trying to make some
2:05:14
recommendations, you know, because I had, I was an
2:05:20
architect. He got in touch with me.
2:05:22
He wanted me to consult, you know, he wanted me to look at
2:05:24
some plans that he was doing on a, a small project.
2:05:29
And so he said, what do you think about this?
2:05:33
You know, putting it this way, you know, and I, you know, I was
2:05:37
like, well, I hate to say this, but you're at the bottom of
2:05:41
hill. He's going to get flooded.
2:05:43
Your shop puts too close. You're going to hit the runway
2:05:45
here the way you know, and they were trying to put it in the
2:05:48
only space they had to put it in, you know, and he came back,
2:05:51
you know, and and there was another instance where the plans
2:05:54
called for a box, a pole vault box.
2:05:59
It was in the D zone. They got the cobalt box on one
2:06:02
side, pole vault set up there. There's a it called for a box on
2:06:05
the other side, the high school stadium.
2:06:07
I said you shouldn't do that. No, there's there's just a
2:06:12
handful of high schools instead of Jordans.
2:06:14
They're going to be able to board 2 pit and they're not
2:06:17
going to move with the wind. In high school, we don't move
2:06:19
for the wind. We just, we just, we don't
2:06:22
colleges, yeah, you adjust, you adjust with us.
2:06:25
If you're you're running into it, you're jumping into a
2:06:27
headwind. That's just the way it is.
2:06:29
You know, So I said that's just an unnecessary, that's an
2:06:31
unnecessary item. That's an additional charge.
2:06:34
You know, you're charging my extra 1000 bucks that you
2:06:36
shouldn't do. You brought up how many take off
2:06:39
boards you want. OK, here's a big Craig and I go
2:06:43
nuts about this National Federation recommendation is an
2:06:46
8 foot board or 12 foot board on the same runway.
2:06:50
It's 2026. Why don't we just have one at
2:06:53
10? Because I hate to tell you this,
2:06:56
our female athletes can make the pit from 10 feet.
2:06:59
You should not have a female long jump board.
2:07:02
And our pit sizes now recommend, I think it's 27 feet.
2:07:05
You know, like 10 by 27, right? And nobody's going to jump out.
2:07:09
That's right. Exactly.
2:07:10
We're not going to jump out of. It I literally just had this
2:07:12
only a 12 month ago. I was like bro.
2:07:13
You do not, you know. And so they come in world
2:07:16
record. You'd still be OK.
2:07:18
Yeah, so they still they still are using that same template and
2:07:22
they still put 812. They put the you know, I can't
2:07:25
remember what the the the trouble jump 243024303220243032
2:07:33
or yeah or 36. You know something, you know,
2:07:36
and, and, and they're putting in two runways like, hey, here's an
2:07:40
idea. Why don't you take some of the
2:07:42
boards off this one and put on that other one or not, you know
2:07:45
not. And so you look out there and
2:07:47
suddenly you've got, I have boards on 2 runways and I'm, I'm
2:07:51
doing the math in my head. I know how much that tray cost.
2:07:55
I know how much this cost. So like you're charging.
2:07:57
So somebody's making AI shouldn't complain because you
2:08:00
and I are selling in ground stuff, you know, but.
2:08:03
That would say that insulation cost more than the board though.
2:08:06
The board, yeah, you know, but you know, you know, I'm like
2:08:09
that's 5 grand in boards right there, you know, and the whole
2:08:12
thing. So, you know, it's just little
2:08:14
things like that, you know, and we've run into it, we've run
2:08:19
into a spate of instances where they put the, they put the pole
2:08:23
vault box too deep. And so they've got this nice
2:08:27
footprint that's perfect size. And we've been fighting and
2:08:30
saying, look, go this certain size, use this footprint you
2:08:33
can, because I researched and looked at every model, every,
2:08:37
you know, everything I could find, every size.
2:08:39
I said, if you put this down, you're going to be able to
2:08:41
anchor your standards. You're going to, you know, and I
2:08:43
have anything exposed, everything's going to be sitting
2:08:45
where it needs to. Somebody forgot to tell the
2:08:48
installers that you need, you need from the back of the box,
2:08:51
from the back of the footprint of the concrete or Weather
2:08:53
Service that if you're in a stand alone runway, you need
2:08:57
about 16 feet, 9 inches. That's where the back of your
2:08:59
box needs to be. But suddenly the box is really
2:09:02
deep. You know, it's about four feet
2:09:04
deep into the footprint. You've got 4 feet of pit sitting
2:09:07
off either on an unstable or grass area.
2:09:10
Like why did you put all and you got all this up front, but why
2:09:13
did why did you know? So we've had that a couple of
2:09:16
times, you know, and it's like, y'all got to get this straight.
2:09:21
Yeah, still following the old template of something.
2:09:26
Yeah, well, you know, we are a very traditional and
2:09:29
conservative sport. It takes a long time to change
2:09:33
anything in this. Sport.
2:09:33
Tell me about it. You would know you you would
2:09:36
have been on the tail. Yeah.
2:09:37
Been around the end of this. I, I remember David telling me
2:09:39
the the the Strat the Track World is in when he he did, he
2:09:43
decided we weren't going to do any more wood hurdle boards so
2:09:47
we'd find this polycarbonate this.
2:09:48
Blasphemy, Blasphemy. You've got to be kidding me.
2:09:51
No one will ever want these yadda yadda yadda.
2:09:53
And it's like, what are we still using wood for here, boys and
2:09:56
girls? And now find a wood board.
2:09:58
No one does a wood board. It's like.
2:10:00
And it took way too long to move to something that's so simple.
2:10:03
That seems the most simplest 1. News flash, we carry wood boards
2:10:06
again. Not for the gay board.
2:10:12
Oh, oh, oh, no. Oh, take off board.
2:10:14
Take off board. No, no, no.
2:10:15
I. Know we do for the take the long
2:10:17
jump take. Off board, we were going.
2:10:19
To I'm sorry, sorry. Yeah, I did.
2:10:21
I did move that. I went to the hurdles.
2:10:22
I went. I bring everything back to the.
2:10:23
Hurdles. You jumped the hurdle gate
2:10:25
board. No, no one does.
2:10:26
You're right. We did bring back wood, partly
2:10:29
because it's like, man, people just they, they, there's a lot
2:10:32
of misconceptions about the composite.
2:10:34
And I don't think I've ever said this publicly.
2:10:36
I've said this internally, and I'll make this quick because
2:10:39
we're we're past our time here for you, Rick and I do have one
2:10:41
more question to wrap us up here, but I do wonder, I
2:10:44
remember at the is the world Champs few years ago, three or
2:10:47
four years ago, there was a lot of slipping and someone messaged
2:10:50
me on Twitter was like, Hey, is this your board?
2:10:51
And it was like in Saudi Arabia or something like that.
2:10:53
I was like, Nah, bro, I'm not that good.
2:10:54
I don't sell in Saudi Arabia. And Mondo had done it.
2:10:57
And so I went and look and I was like on a Mondo.
2:10:59
Mondo does a great job internationally with that type
2:11:01
of equipment. I went and looked and they don't
2:11:03
offer that was that was a wood board.
2:11:05
They don't offer composite. And I was like, guys, that was a
2:11:07
wood. I know you think because people
2:11:08
are slipping, that becomes the ethos that oh, it's composite,
2:11:11
that was actually wood. And what I wonder is I don't
2:11:15
think, you know, these shoes have changed so much and a lot
2:11:17
of carbon and carbon plating even in our long term stance.
2:11:20
I wonder because there's so much stiffness now if when we're
2:11:24
landing, when we're on that take off step for the long jump, if
2:11:28
because there's no, there's less play, I wonder if the spikes are
2:11:33
actually not getting in enough in general, like they're barely
2:11:37
not even puncturing the the wood or or composite.
2:11:40
And so that's causing a slip. I I, I just want, I don't know
2:11:43
that we've actually looked at what the shoe technology in
2:11:46
regards of long. John that's, that's, that's a,
2:11:49
that's a great point, You know, because a lot of the shoes,
2:11:51
there's so much of the, the, the energy return, you know, maybe
2:11:55
the spike, maybe the energy return is so fast that the spike
2:11:59
is not in the surface as long as it needs to be, which is really
2:12:03
good, which is really good when you're running because it's,
2:12:06
you're losing friction, you know, so you're, you're, you're
2:12:08
you got enough friction for traction.
2:12:10
But now when you get to where you're having to put all of it
2:12:13
on one, you know, on that take off that that's a, that's a,
2:12:16
that's something valid that needs to be looked into.
2:12:18
I'm telling you because Ricky know about this, we sell a crap
2:12:23
ton of take off boards and up until this year for for the past
2:12:27
678, it's been a while now we've only sold composite.
2:12:31
So there. Are.
2:12:32
Literally that, I mean thousands upon thousands of thousands.
2:12:35
So that means there are 100 X number of jumps taken on those
2:12:39
boards throughout the year. And sure, sometimes we we see
2:12:43
it. I'm not saying we've never seen
2:12:45
a kid slip on the board, but boy feels like there'd be more if it
2:12:48
was the board looks like that would be an endemic and we're
2:12:52
not. It's not an endemic.
2:12:53
It's I don't know. It's interesting.
2:12:55
I also don't know enough about shoe technology, so I could be
2:12:57
just talking out of my wazoo and have no idea.
2:12:59
There might be someone from Nike listening right now going no,
2:13:00
bro, the long jokes. What you know, whatever.
2:13:02
They're a little nerd. They'll.
2:13:03
Miss Nike doesn't listen. Nike doesn't listen.
2:13:05
Yeah. Just you know that.
2:13:06
Let me believe that you. Can believe they do, but they
2:13:09
they may. They may attend it, but they
2:13:11
don't live. That's fairly true.
2:13:13
OK, Rick, last question to wrap us up here.
2:13:17
Your career has been phenomenal. The impact, the positive impact
2:13:22
that you have made on young people is immeasurable beyond
2:13:26
what you've created in regards to state championship teams and
2:13:30
state champion individuals. And they've gone on to to a jump
2:13:32
at college or you know, compete in colleges and things like
2:13:34
that. 99% of your kids did not go on to college and did not go
2:13:38
on to become pro, but 100% of them became moms, dads, coaches,
2:13:43
business owners, etcetera. And that, to me, is your.
2:13:45
True. Impact on society.
2:13:47
So I'm curious, my friend has someone who had a really amazing
2:13:53
growing up chicken farm. That's crazy working your senior
2:13:58
year till midnight to pay for college.
2:14:00
I love all that. You also did football, wrestling
2:14:04
and we can say you coached basketball.
2:14:08
I was out there. I was in charge.
2:14:09
I I was, I was going to say you were there.
2:14:11
Yeah, you were tempted, but you were there.
2:14:14
Why Track and field? Why aren't we talking about Rick
2:14:18
Moore, who's gone on to do these all these things, football
2:14:21
facilities and football courses and things like this?
2:14:24
Why aren't we talking about Rick Moore the the wrestling coach
2:14:27
that helped design mats and all that, You know, all these
2:14:29
amazing things you've done in track and field?
2:14:30
Why? What did why do?
2:14:32
Why did track and field suck you in more than all these other
2:14:35
sports? I can't, I really can't put a
2:14:41
finger on why I chose. I fell in love with it, deeply,
2:14:46
deeply in love with it. And we have a saying, second
2:14:51
field does more for me than I'll ever do for it.
2:14:56
And you know, I really mean that.
2:14:59
You know, when I, when that just dawned on me one day and I
2:15:01
started, I coined that phrase. It has given me so much through
2:15:08
relationships, through experiences, through growth,
2:15:10
through opportunity. You know, it's just blossomed,
2:15:17
you know, to be able to see athletes, you know, work with
2:15:22
and see athletes, they're the World Cup caliber athletes, you
2:15:26
know in and around them. You know, and you know the, the,
2:15:30
the, the true, the true beauty of track and field is those
2:15:35
acts. It's very simply.
2:15:37
Ryan Trouser was a 7th grade thrower one time struggling to
2:15:42
adapt. He probably didn't, but
2:15:46
struggling to adapt to change it, you know, throwing a 12 LB
2:15:51
shot and it and learning the learning the Terry O'Brien
2:15:55
glide, you know, and what he's doing.
2:15:59
You know what he's doing now. He started in the same place
2:16:02
that those kids are practicing today, are doing the same thing.
2:16:06
They go through the same steps, they go through the same hurdle,
2:16:10
you know, the same, you know, successes and failures that that
2:16:14
all the great athletes, whether it be, you know, in the in the
2:16:18
sprints, in the distance, in the in any of the technical field
2:16:22
event, they all have to start at that first.
2:16:24
And it's just that commonality that, that that pure commonality
2:16:28
is just so beautiful. And it just it bonds, you know,
2:16:34
big bonds, track and field people together.
2:16:36
I think a lot more than other sports.
2:16:38
You know, I see football. Aaron Donald was different in
2:16:43
football. He was different from the day he
2:16:46
put on. He was different.
2:16:47
He was, you know, he was a, a phenomenal physical specimen and
2:16:53
football player. OK.
2:16:56
I don't think that, you know, a lot of the people that started
2:16:59
football, I don't think he ever, I don't think he ever had to go
2:17:01
through what they had to go through because of his, you
2:17:04
know, because of his, you know, the physical gifts that he had.
2:17:07
LeBron, LeBron was different when he was young.
2:17:11
He was different, OK, you know, and I think in other sports, I
2:17:15
don't think that I think that, that those really superstar
2:17:19
world class athlete, they a lot of them don't, you know, they
2:17:23
jump over that, that, that part of it in track and field because
2:17:26
of the learning, you know, and, and, and obviously, you know, I
2:17:29
remember when Mondo was young and jumping, you know, and he
2:17:32
was jumping 12 feet at 12 years old, you know, which is a, which
2:17:35
is great, but it's still 12 feet, right?
2:17:38
It's, it's, it's not otherworldly, you know, So, you
2:17:42
know, I, you know, I like to think that that that frees the
2:17:44
commonality. I also love the fact that, you
2:17:48
know, we are one of the, one of the very few sports where our
2:17:52
males and females, it's exactly the same.
2:17:55
It's exactly the same, You know, a female, a female athlete
2:17:59
training in the in the 400 is feeling the same stuff with the
2:18:03
male athletes still, regardless of the time, regardless of the
2:18:06
performance, they're over there throwing up just as much as they
2:18:08
got, you know, and, and it's, you know, and there I think that
2:18:12
that also makes it more beautiful is because because of,
2:18:15
you know, we have that. And then the, the, the Super
2:18:18
diversity of our sport is, is unmatched, unmatched, you know,
2:18:24
through, from gender, through size, through speed, through
2:18:26
talent, you know, through, you know, you know, ethnicity,
2:18:30
everything. You, you, we've got, we've got
2:18:32
everything, you know, you, you got to coach £100, you know, you
2:18:36
got to coach 100 pound 1600 runner, you know, and get them
2:18:39
to their best, just like you do, the £300 shot putter, you know,
2:18:42
and, and they respect each other because they know that even
2:18:44
though they're different, they're still having to train
2:18:47
and go through the same thing. And so it it there, there's that
2:18:50
bond that it just makes this sport.
2:18:53
It just it just, it just reached something in me, you know, And
2:18:56
then there was Jeremy Smith who ran the 400, you know, in in
2:19:01
dress shoes and was proud of his ribbon, you know, and, you know,
2:19:07
I figured that, you know, it was, you know, for that it was
2:19:11
worth me to put everything into it.
2:19:13
So. I like how you said you know
2:19:15
track and field has given you more than.
2:19:17
And I'll ever give it you'll. Ever give it?
2:19:19
It's a beautiful statement. What's interesting to me is you
2:19:23
are part of that. And what I mean by that is
2:19:25
there's somebody else right now saying, man, you know what track
2:19:28
and field? It gives me more because track
2:19:30
and field is not a thing. It's a, it's a, it's a title of,
2:19:33
of a group of events. It's coaches that make up track
2:19:37
and field. It's athletes that make up track
2:19:39
and field. It's officials, facilities, all
2:19:41
these things. So you're part of that ecosystem
2:19:44
and you had an ecosystem for you, Jeremy Smith, the the
2:19:47
Superintendent coming in and saying, Hey, I need you to coach
2:19:50
track and field. All of that is wrapped up in the
2:19:53
track and field. And so man, I'm so, I loved
2:19:55
asking that question because I was so thankful to ask that
2:19:59
question instead of. You know that question.
2:20:00
That question easily could have been like, hey, man, you know,
2:20:03
so you don't have become this football coach That's great and
2:20:05
all, but boy, track and field seemed like it was pretty
2:20:08
special to you. And you're like, yeah, you know,
2:20:09
but I just went through football because of XY and Z.
2:20:11
I'm so glad that I get to say, hey, man, you know, you did
2:20:14
football and you did a great job at football.
2:20:16
You did basketball. You did basketball.
2:20:19
Yeah. Yeah.
2:20:20
You did wrestling and yet thankful for for me, for our
2:20:24
company, for the sport of track and field, for many, many, many
2:20:27
young men and women. Thank God you chose and it chose
2:20:31
you. Track and field, my friend, and
2:20:33
for that I'm eternally grateful. Well, you know, could easily
2:20:37
could have easily been something else, you know, with this person
2:20:41
hadn't have done this and this person hadn't done that.
2:20:43
And I get out of football, you know, it could.
2:20:45
But you know it, it just opened up to me and said this is where
2:20:49
you need to be. And I stood up for it at that
2:20:51
point, so. Thanks for not being stubborn
2:20:54
and saying no no, but I really want to do football.
2:20:57
No, I gave up. I gave up football to protect
2:20:59
track, to be honest. I gave up football to protect
2:21:02
track, you know, so, and it was a it was a good thing.
2:21:06
Rick, I'm, I'm blessed to to not only call you, you know, a
2:21:11
business partner and what we do and things like that, but also
2:21:14
blessed to call you a friend and, you know, one of the most
2:21:16
expensive, one of the most valuable things you can give me
2:21:19
is time, man. I'm just so grateful that you'd
2:21:22
give me this time. If you're watching, most of you
2:21:24
are going to listen to this on the podcast.
2:21:25
It's easily the most popular part here.
2:21:28
However, we do show these on YouTube as well.
2:21:30
And if you go over to YouTube and check it out, he's in the
2:21:33
shed of the cross country course right now.
2:21:35
This is the man just lives in. The shed.
2:21:37
I'm at work. I'm at work.
2:21:38
At work, I've held him from cutting grass and killing fire
2:21:41
ants. And I know you have you know you
2:21:44
have a full day every day. So I'm grateful for you taking
2:21:47
the time out to, to share your journey with us.
2:21:49
Man, I'm just. I appreciate it.
2:21:52
And when you said, when you told me, when you asked me initially
2:21:56
and you said you said to me, hey, you set aside two hours.
2:21:59
It'll go faster than you think. I thought you're right.
2:22:02
It did Like crap. It did, you know I didn't.
2:22:06
Believe you. I would think that after 307
2:22:08
episodes people would start believing me, but that's the one
2:22:10
thing. No one believes me.
2:22:11
And then at the end they go, holy crap, that was two.
2:22:13
Wait, actually, we went 2 1/2. Wait a minute.
2:22:15
I'm like, yeah, man, it's you know your story, your story
2:22:19
deserves it. That's the that's the real key.
2:22:21
I always tell people that your story doesn't deserve 20
2:22:22
minutes. So we can't get I couldn't get
2:22:24
through junior year of high school in 20 minutes, brother,
2:22:27
your story deserves it. And so, so grateful for you to
2:22:30
trust me and be so open and authentic with us and our.
2:22:32
Thank you. I appreciate it and.
2:22:33
Sharing your journey today, so thank you my.
2:22:35
Friend. Well, thank you.
2:22:36
I appreciate it. And thank you guys for being
2:22:37
here man. Again, you know, I never would
2:22:39
have thought we'd make it 7 years, but here we are in season
2:22:42
7, three 150 plus episodes. And right now my bosses, they're
2:22:45
so amazing. There is no stopping as of right
2:22:48
now. And so we'll continue to bring
2:22:50
you amazing human beings that thank goodness, thank God they
2:22:53
chose to be track and field coaches because they give so
2:22:55
much to our sport. Just like he said, the sport of
2:22:57
track and field gives so much to him.
2:22:59
Well, that's what you're doing for young people on a daily
2:23:01
basis. You're part of that and I'm
2:23:02
grateful that you're here to share these journeys with us.
2:23:04
So join us next week. We'll do it all over again.
2:23:06
Have a great week everybody. The goals to appreciate the
2:23:10
coach the ones that pour people most every season needs a voice
2:23:14
of reason to speak in the growth you got to prep before you carry
2:23:16
the load ice coffee to the soul. For those of us stay on the go
2:23:20
proper handoff to stay in the zone which you packing for the
2:23:23
road. There's more than one way to go.
2:23:25
Taking notes that's paying you're told it ain't practice if
2:23:28
your purpose ain't Clair, it can't happen until you listen.
2:23:30
With both is can't mentor without a mentor of experience.
2:23:34
You can reinvent those years every plan's got to stand and
2:23:37
deliver to and the price sacrifice can you give up you.
2:23:41
It's a choice and a fight, not a win or lose.
2:23:43
It's not a ploy boy device. Y'all can make more moves.
2:23:46
It's not about how to, it's all about why you don't know till
2:23:49
you know who you are inside 6,000,000.
2:23:52
Waste of time, choose none. So we y'all cross finish line.
2:23:55
The work ain't done so we learn from the experts but y'all got
2:23:58
to put in the legwork. Guild Athletics is the network.
2:24:01
It's all about connections put together for the profession to
2:24:04
where every track coach could be blessed.