Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 28 September

Transcript

The Bolt Report | 28 September · The Bolt Report

0:07
Speaker 1: This is The Bolt Report. Good evening.
0:15
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me on The Bolt Report. I'm James McPherson.
0:18
Speaker 2: Here's what's coming up tonight. Treasurer Jim Chalmers wheels out
0:21
Speaker 2: the same old excuses for Australia's economic decline, claiming high
0:25
Speaker 2: inflation and an expected RBA rate rise tomorrow have nothing
0:29
Speaker 2: to do with government spending. No, no, it's all about
0:32
Speaker 2: the wars overseas. The political panel will join me to
0:35
Speaker 2: discuss that. Plus, we'll cross to Patrick Christie's in the UK,
0:39
Speaker 2: where a major alleged terror threat was foiled by a
0:42
Speaker 2: farmer who noticed masked men emerging from white vans just
0:45
Speaker 2: 400 metres from a British Air Force base. And Pauline
0:49
Speaker 2: Hanson calls for tougher laws targeting radical Islamists. Following revelations,
0:54
Speaker 2: a radical Muslim preacher in Melbourne has encouraged worshippers to
0:58
Speaker 2: take up arms against Jews and Christians. We'll get to
1:03
Speaker 2: all of that shortly. But first, Australia desperately needs an
1:08
Speaker 2: e-safety commissioner. to protect us from the eSafety Commissioner.
1:13
Speaker 1: It was revealed today that.
1:14
Speaker 2: Hidden deep within the fine print of the Albanese government's
1:17
Speaker 2: digital duty of care exposure draft are powers that would
1:21
Speaker 2: allow our eSafety Commissioner to create fake online accounts.
1:26
Speaker 1: And she'd have the power to use these.
1:27
Speaker 2: Fake online accounts to, and I'm quoting here, generate material,
1:32
Speaker 2: including by means of artificial intelligence.
1:37
Speaker 1: Now, Hang on a second.
1:38
Speaker 2: Hasn't the government spent the past few years telling us
1:41
Speaker 2: that fake online accounts are spreading harm? I remember back
1:45
Speaker 2: in May 2024, Anthony Albanese told 4CA Radio in Cairns that,
1:51
Speaker 2: and I quote, people are prepared to say things online
1:54
Speaker 2: that they would never say to your face. And often
1:57
Speaker 2: it's behind anonymous accounts where people aren't held to account.
2:01
Speaker 2: It's just shocking that people can get away with this stuff.
2:05
Speaker 1: Well, quite right.
2:06
Speaker 2: It is shocking when people hide behind fake accounts and
2:09
Speaker 2: say things they'd never say to your face, unless, apparently,
2:13
Speaker 2: those fake accounts belong to the eSafety Commissioner. Then it's
2:17
Speaker 2: government policy. And hasn't the government spent the past 12
2:21
Speaker 2: months complaining against the spread of propaganda?
2:26
Speaker 3: The truth is this is having an impact on our
2:28
Speaker 3: entire society and how it functions. with misinformation, disinformation, with
2:34
Speaker 3: the increased polarisation that we're seeing as well.
2:37
Speaker 2: And on top of that, hasn't the government spent the
2:40
Speaker 2: past few days complaining that AI could destroy humanity?
2:45
Speaker 3: We need to make sure that we shape its use
2:49
Speaker 3: in the interests of humanity.
2:52
Speaker 2: And now we discover, while they've been saying all of
2:55
Speaker 2: that to us, they themselves want the power to create
2:59
Speaker 2: fake online accounts to spread their own propaganda using AI.
3:04
Speaker 1: Apparently the rules are.
3:05
Speaker 2: Different when the people behind the keyboard are wearing a
3:07
Speaker 2: government endorsed lanyard. Funny how Anthony Albanese and his communications minister,
3:12
Speaker 2: Annika Wells, never mentioned any of this when they fronted
3:16
Speaker 2: the media to promote their digital duty of care legislation.
3:20
Speaker 3: This is not about giving government control. It's about giving
3:25
Speaker 3: people control.
3:27
Speaker 2: And if you believe that, imagine what you'll believe after
3:31
Speaker 2: the eSafety Commissioner has been empowered to create fake online
3:34
Speaker 2: accounts to tell you what else is up, by which
3:37
Speaker 2: I mean, of course, down. Yet buried inside this legislation
3:42
Speaker 2: are powers that would allow a government-appointed regulator to do
3:46
Speaker 2: some of the very things Australians are being warned not
3:49
Speaker 2: to do. Anonymous accounts, generated material, artificial intelligence, information without
3:55
Speaker 2: an identifiable author. These aren't powers under some, you know,
4:00
Speaker 2: abstract concept called the internet. These are powers over what
4:04
Speaker 2: Australians can see, what Australians can say, and potentially what
4:08
Speaker 2: Australians are told is true. And the government wants us
4:12
Speaker 2: to trust it to tell the truth, you know, anonymously
4:17
Speaker 2: using AI. Even if we trusted Anthony Albanese, which we don't,
4:22
Speaker 2: this would not be OK. And as for the e-safety commissioner, well,
4:26
Speaker 2: why would we give her even more power to shape
4:29
Speaker 2: the public conversation, let alone using online sock puppets to
4:32
Speaker 2: do it? Remember when the e-safety Karen tried to ban
4:36
Speaker 2: us from seeing footage of what New South Wales police
4:39
Speaker 2: allege was an Islamist terror attack on the Christian bishop
4:43
Speaker 2: in Sydney? This was despite the fact that the victim,
4:46
Speaker 2: Bishop Marmari Emmanuel, said he wanted people to be able
4:50
Speaker 2: to see what happened to him. The East Safety Commissioner, well,
4:54
Speaker 2: she ignored the victim and went all the way to
4:56
Speaker 2: the federal court in a bid to have clips of
4:59
Speaker 2: what happened to him removed from X, including one clip
5:03
Speaker 2: posted by a sitting federal senator. Well, what about the
5:07
Speaker 2: time Australia's East Safety Karen tried unsuccessfully to force a
5:12
Speaker 2: Canadian citizen, to delete a social media post criticising the
5:16
Speaker 2: World Health Organisation for appointing a transgendered Australian to help
5:21
Speaker 2: write treatment guidelines for young people with gender dysphoria.
5:24
Speaker 1: I could give you more examples, but you get the idea.
5:28
Speaker 2: The eSafety Commissioner already has opinions about what Australians should
5:31
Speaker 2: and shouldn't be allowed to see online. Now the government
5:35
Speaker 2: wants to give her even more power and they want
5:37
Speaker 2: a provision for her to be able to use that
5:40
Speaker 2: power anonymously. That should be a concern for everyone who
5:45
Speaker 2: thinks accountability is a vital feature of government, which means
5:48
Speaker 2: it's a concern for everyone, apart from those currently in government.
5:53
Speaker 2: But as I said earlier, how is it that the
5:55
Speaker 2: Albanese government didn't tell us about this provision when they
5:58
Speaker 2: presented their digital duty of care a couple of weeks ago?
6:02
Speaker 2: How is it we only found out about these new
6:04
Speaker 2: powers after someone decided to go digging into the fine print? Well,
6:10
Speaker 2: I guess maybe Anthony Albanese didn't realise this was in
6:13
Speaker 2: the exposure draft.
6:14
Speaker 1: I mean, that's possible.
6:15
Speaker 2: He did, after all, propose a major constitutional change. Remember
6:20
Speaker 2: the voice to Parliament? Without reading all the details of
6:23
Speaker 2: what it was he was proposing.
6:25
Speaker 1: Do you agree with most of what is said in
6:27
Speaker 1: those 25 pages? I haven't read it. You haven't read it?
6:30
Speaker 1: There's 120 pages. Why would I?
6:32
Speaker 3: I know what the conclusion is.
6:35
Speaker 2: I think it's fair to say details in Anthony Albanese
6:38
Speaker 2: are kind of like water and oil. The other possibility
6:42
Speaker 2: is less flattering. Perhaps the Prime Minister knew exactly what
6:46
Speaker 2: was in his digital duty of care exposure draft, and
6:48
Speaker 2: perhaps he simply didn't think Australians needed to know.
6:52
Speaker 1: Because that's the problem here, isn't it?
6:54
Speaker 2: It's not just the power, it's the secrecy surrounding the power,
6:58
Speaker 2: and it's not just the hypocrisy, it's the expectation that
7:01
Speaker 2: Australians should accept the hypocrisy without asking questions. And of course,
7:06
Speaker 2: it's the lying, the constant lying.
7:09
Speaker 3: The criticism of this legislation is not surprising that this
7:14
Speaker 3: is about government control. It is the opposite of that.
7:19
Speaker 3: It's about giving everyone a control over their own lives.
7:24
Speaker 2: Well, if anyone out there wants to give us control
7:26
Speaker 2: over our own lives, please save us from the eSafety
7:30
Speaker 2: Commissioner and save us from this secretive, lying, Albanese government.
7:40
Speaker 2: Joining me now is my political panel, former Victoria Liberal
7:43
Speaker 2: Party President Michael Kroger and former Labor Minister Stephen Conroy.
7:47
Speaker 1: Welcome to you both. Michael, I'll start with you.
7:50
Speaker 2: What do you think of the government's proposal to expand
7:53
Speaker 2: the eSafety Commissioner's powers like this?
7:58
Speaker 1: This is laughable.
8:00
Speaker 4: If you want to see something spectacular, you just need
8:02
Speaker 4: to have seen Rowan Dean's takedown of this yesterday on Outsiders.
8:05
Speaker 4: And if you haven't or didn't see it, have a
8:07
Speaker 4: look at it. This is preposterous, to put in the
8:10
Speaker 4: hands of the eSafety Commissioner or Annika Wells, power over
8:14
Speaker 4: what we should be seeing. This reminds me of my
8:16
Speaker 4: friend here, Stephen Conroy's time at the wheel as Communications
8:20
Speaker 4: Minister in 2011. They started on this with the Fingalstein Report.
8:24
Speaker 4: Labor have an obsession with disinformation, whether it's, you know,
8:28
Speaker 4: the reason the voice loss was disinformation. All clouded in
8:32
Speaker 4: community good, community service, protecting children and Rubbish. We weren't
8:37
Speaker 4: born yesterday, Albo. This is all about Labor censoring the
8:41
Speaker 4: news and current affairs that they don't like, all under
8:44
Speaker 4: the guise of protecting innocent people and making it your choice. No,
8:48
Speaker 4: the eSafety Commissioner decides these things. You'd have to be kidding.
8:52
Speaker 2: Stephen Conroy, I don't know that I've done an episode
8:54
Speaker 2: of The Bolt Report where you haven't started laughing mid-answer
8:58
Speaker 2: from Michael Kroger, so I'll let you tell me.
9:00
Speaker 5: Seriously.
9:01
Speaker 1: What's funny? Can I just.
9:03
Speaker 6: I just want some of what Michael's smoking when we're
9:06
Speaker 6: finished here, OK? I mean, this is as simple as
9:12
Speaker 6: wanting to give Australians a choice... whether they want Elon
9:17
Speaker 6: Musk's filth shoved down their throat via his algorithm and
9:21
Speaker 6: his choices, or they get to go, no. I don't
9:25
Speaker 6: want that. I'll make these decisions.
9:28
Speaker 2: Stephen, let me jump in for a second, Stephen. Let
9:31
Speaker 2: me jump in for a second because you're right. That's
9:34
Speaker 2: what they've told us this is all about. But then
9:36
Speaker 2: people go reading through the legislation and they find that
9:39
Speaker 2: a safety commissioner gets to create fake accounts and to
9:42
Speaker 2: generate material. What's that got to do with letting us
9:45
Speaker 2: choose our own algorithm?
9:47
Speaker 3: Correct.
9:48
Speaker 6: Perhaps you've never... talk to one of the police officers
9:53
Speaker 6: who hunt down child porn.
9:55
Speaker 1: The eSafety Commission is not a police officer.
9:56
Speaker 6: They don't go on the line as James McPherson. This
9:59
Speaker 6: isn't James McPherson. They create fake accounts to track down
10:04
Speaker 6: the bad guys.
10:05
Speaker 1: But the eSafety Commissioner is not a police officer. They do.
10:08
Speaker 6: The eSafety Commissioner's job is to make sure that these companies,
10:15
Speaker 6: these big tech companies who think they own and rule
10:18
Speaker 6: the world and your life... to ensure they're complying with
10:21
Speaker 6: our legislation. And so you create personas that allow you
10:27
Speaker 6: to test whether the bad guys, in this case, bad
10:31
Speaker 6: big tech, are actually complying with our laws, whether they're
10:34
Speaker 6: actually really trying to identify somebody under the age of 16,
10:39
Speaker 6: whether they're trying to force material down their throats. That's
10:43
Speaker 6: her job. like the job of the East Safety Commissioner.
10:47
Speaker 6: So there is absolutely good reason why this thing is
10:53
Speaker 6: in the legislation to ensure the big tech companies are
10:56
Speaker 6: telling the truth, something they've told none of to all
10:59
Speaker 6: of us for the last 20 years while they've strip-mined
11:03
Speaker 6: our souls. And now they say, trust us, trust us,
11:06
Speaker 6: we'll do the right thing. It's just not the case.
11:09
Speaker 1: OK, Michael, take.
11:10
Speaker 6: Because, as has been said... No, no, sorry, just let me...
11:12
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, I'm being long-winded.
11:14
Speaker 4: No, no, no, keep going.
11:15
Speaker 6: But big tech have just done half a billion dollar
11:20
Speaker 6: deals on the digital duty of care laws.
11:24
Speaker 1: In the US.
11:26
Speaker 6: They've just done half a billion settlements in two states
11:30
Speaker 6: because they know they don't keep their word. So two
11:33
Speaker 6: states have taken action against... the Facebooks and Instagrams of
11:37
Speaker 6: this world, and they've settled. They've settled for large money amounts.
11:42
Speaker 2: OK, so we all know that big tech are capable
11:45
Speaker 2: of misleading people, but.
11:46
Speaker 1: My problem, Michael, is... They're not capable. They do it
11:48
Speaker 1: on a daily basis... as do the Labor government. But, Michael, if.
11:52
Speaker 7: No.
11:52
Speaker 1: if this is.
11:54
Speaker 2: Necessary information, it's necessary for them to have this power,
11:57
Speaker 2: as Stephen has argued, then why would the government, knowing
12:01
Speaker 2: that this is going to be explosive when it's found...
12:04
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't they just come out right at the start
12:06
Speaker 2: and say, and by the way, this is what we're
12:08
Speaker 2: also going to do and this is why?
12:10
Speaker 1: Well, it is pretty remarkable. Michael, you have a go, Michael.
12:14
Speaker 4: There's nothing to see here whatsoever, according to Stephen. This
12:18
Speaker 4: is an old tactic of the left, by the way,
12:19
Speaker 4: and they use it in all sorts of things. They
12:24
Speaker 4: rationalise a position by taking the extremist position and then
12:29
Speaker 4: pretend that that applies to the whole. So Stephen's... Big
12:32
Speaker 4: tech are all doing it. Stephen's argument is, oh, look
12:36
Speaker 4: at these rampant pedophiles on the internet. You know, if
12:40
Speaker 4: we don't censor big tech, these people run rampant. Well,
12:43
Speaker 4: in fact, that is a very small percentage of what
12:46
Speaker 4: goes on. So, you know.
12:48
Speaker 1: It's like what they say about the Liberal Party.
12:50
Speaker 4: Oh, there are right-wing extremists or one notion are full
12:53
Speaker 4: of neo-Nazis or whatever. This is their old tactic of
12:55
Speaker 4: the left to take some extreme example and then say
12:59
Speaker 4: that's normal and that's why we need to protect you. No,
13:02
Speaker 4: we don't need protection from the East Safety Commissioner. Thank
13:04
Speaker 4: you very much. And nor do we need help from
13:06
Speaker 4: Annika Wells.
13:07
Speaker 6: Well, if Angus Taylor wants to be on the side
13:09
Speaker 6: of big tech against the government protecting kids under 16... Yeah,
13:13
Speaker 6: there you go.
13:13
Speaker 1: Protecting kids.
13:14
Speaker 6: Well, that's what the legislation's about. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:17
Speaker 6: You go right ahead, you back Elon Musk. You back
13:20
Speaker 6: big tech.
13:20
Speaker 1: Mm.
13:21
Speaker 4: Yep.
13:22
Speaker 2: Let's move on to some other news today because we
13:25
Speaker 2: could spend all the show on that topic, but we won't.
13:28
Speaker 2: Jim Chalmers fronted the media today to announce the final
13:31
Speaker 2: federal budget figures. As part of that, he confirmed the
13:34
Speaker 2: overall budget deficit is $ 6 billion lower than initially forecast,
13:38
Speaker 2: but it's... still the largest deficit since COVID. When it
13:42
Speaker 2: came to addressing higher inflation and the expected RBA rate
13:44
Speaker 2: rise tomorrow, he, I think, defaulted to his usual spin,
13:49
Speaker 2: claiming it's all because of the war and, besides, everyone
13:51
Speaker 2: else around the world's got high inflation too.
13:53
Speaker 1: Here's what he said.
13:55
Speaker 8: Rates will go up around the world, including in Australia.
13:58
Speaker 8: We see much more pressure on inflation from developments in
14:02
Speaker 8: the Middle East in particular, and that's why, if you
14:05
Speaker 8: look right across the major advanced economies.
14:08
Speaker 8: There is an expectation of higher interest rates around the world.
14:12
Speaker 1: Opposition leader Angus Taylor was having none of that. He
14:15
Speaker 1: hit back with this.
14:16
Speaker 5: You've got a treasurer here who's just a media advisor.
14:20
Speaker 5: It's all just spin. That's where he comes from. He
14:22
Speaker 5: doesn't understand the economy. And, you know, we're seeing the
14:27
Speaker 5: outcome of that right now.
14:29
Speaker 2: Michael Kroger, Jim Chalmers believed he had a good story
14:31
Speaker 2: to tell today.
14:32
Speaker 1: Did he?
14:34
Speaker 4: No, he's got a shocker.
14:36
Speaker 1: This bloke.
14:37
Speaker 4: This bloke is hopelessly out of his depth. All he
14:40
Speaker 4: does at press conferences is repeat what the advertising people
14:42
Speaker 4: have said to him, which is compare yourself to the
14:45
Speaker 4: Frydenberg budget and say because of Labor's good economic management.
14:49
Speaker 4: You must repeat those phrases, Jim, in every single press conference.
14:52
Speaker 4: Here's what's happened, by the way, James, since Frydenberg's last
14:55
Speaker 4: budget in March 2022. Compared to what Frydenberg predicted in
15:01
Speaker 4: that budget, government expenditure has gone up 34%. It's gone
15:08
Speaker 4: up a little bit over $ 200 billion in five years.
15:13
Speaker 4: And the good news for Chalmers is, and he's got
15:15
Speaker 4: one thing correct, he's brought down the budget deficit as,
15:19
Speaker 4: you know, Josh said it'd be $ 80 billion that year.
15:20
Speaker 4: It's now going to be $ 30 billion this year.
15:22
Speaker 1: Why would that be?
15:24
Speaker 4: He's increased revenues by 46%. Revenues since the Frydenberg budget
15:31
Speaker 4: are up $ 250 billion. Expenditure is up $ 200 billion in
15:33
Speaker 4: five years. You want to know why this country's in
15:39
Speaker 4: a shocking mess? Because this bloke and his team have
15:43
Speaker 4: to massively increase government revenues to cover the blowout in spending.
15:49
Speaker 4: In five years, spending up over 30%. I mean, the
15:55
Speaker 4: guy has no ability whatsoever. He's not running the economy.
15:58
Speaker 4: The economy's running him. And still running these massive budget
16:02
Speaker 4: deficits when revenues have been booming. Budget deficits.
16:05
Speaker 1: Budget deficits.
16:07
Speaker 4: When the economy has been booming, is just testimony to
16:10
Speaker 4: a weak Treasurer, hopelessly out of his depth, the result
16:13
Speaker 4: of which is we're going to have an interest rate
16:15
Speaker 4: rise tomorrow when the economy is failing badly, James.
16:18
Speaker 2: The other thing Jim Chalmers said today, Stephen, was that
16:20
Speaker 2: nobody cares more about productivity than the Albanese government. You'd
16:25
Speaker 2: even find that hard to swallow, wouldn't you?
16:29
Speaker 6: Well, productivity's been a long-term problem in this country, no
16:31
Speaker 6: matter who's been in government, but it had a particularly
16:34
Speaker 6: shocking time for the near 10 years that the Coalition
16:38
Speaker 6: were in government from 14 to 22, where if you
16:42
Speaker 6: look at the statistics, whatever they actually mean, it went
16:47
Speaker 6: backwards under the Liberal government. The biggest issue around productivity
16:51
Speaker 6: at the moment is the lack of investment, because that's
16:53
Speaker 6: how you sort of measure it. And it's a very
16:55
Speaker 6: poor way to try and talk about productivity in a
16:58
Speaker 6: modern economy. It's based on investment and workers. So when
17:03
Speaker 6: the Liberal Party talk about productivity, that's code for we
17:06
Speaker 6: want to cut your wages. So just know when Michael Kroger,
17:09
Speaker 6: Angus Taylor says we want improved productivity, what they really
17:12
Speaker 6: are saying is we want workers to be paid less.
17:17
Speaker 1: Like the Howard government did.
17:18
Speaker 6: That is what his productivity arguments are about when the
17:21
Speaker 6: Liberal Party's lips are moving.
17:23
Speaker 1: Or when you're desperate.
17:24
Speaker 6: So just to go back to this massive budget deficit,
17:27
Speaker 6: this is a tiny, tiny proportion of GDP. It's like
17:31
Speaker 6: it's actually virtually... In rounding terms, almost a balanced budget again.
17:35
Speaker 6: I know Michael can't stand that. The last refuge of
17:37
Speaker 6: the economic charlatan is to say it's $ 18 billion.
17:41
Speaker 1: It's massive.
17:42
Speaker 6: It's not massive at all. It's a rounding error on
17:45
Speaker 6: the actual size of our GDP, budget deficit to GDP,
17:49
Speaker 6: a rounding error. So the last refuge, economic charlatan, pretend
17:53
Speaker 6: $ 18 billion is a big number as a deficit. It's
17:56
Speaker 6: actually coming in. It's actually coming in and been reduced.
18:00
Speaker 1: I've got to agree with you, Stephen. You've got $ 100
18:01
Speaker 1: billion of deficits.
18:02
Speaker 4: You've got $ 100 billion of deficits over the next four years.
18:06
Speaker 4: That ain't no rounding error.
18:08
Speaker 2: I'm agreeing with Stephen because I'd love to buy a
18:10
Speaker 2: house in Sydney and $ 18 billion does.
18:12
Speaker 1: Seem like a rounding error when you're trying to do that.
18:15
Speaker 1: Before I let you guys go.
18:16
Speaker 6: You want to be absurd and compare it not to
18:18
Speaker 6: the economy and talk about $ 18 billion for a house
18:21
Speaker 6: versus $ 18 billion for an economy?
18:23
Speaker 9: OK.
18:25
Speaker 2: Let's talk about migrants for a second. Labor grants 30,000
18:29
Speaker 2: visas to boat arrivals. The government's quietly granted these visas,
18:36
Speaker 2: as I said, more than 30,000. These were legal boat
18:39
Speaker 2: arrivals who came during the Rudd-Gillard era. That was between
18:42
Speaker 2: 2009 and 2014. And this is despite Labor promising that
18:47
Speaker 2: only allow about 19,000 of them to stay under a
18:50
Speaker 2: new resolution of status visa that announced more than three
18:53
Speaker 2: years ago intended to end the limbo facing these asylum seekers. Now,
18:57
Speaker 2: this includes permanent visas for 6,500 Iranians, 4,500 Afghanis. Most
19:04
Speaker 2: of these illegal asylum seekers now granted permanent visas will
19:07
Speaker 2: be eligible to become citizens by the 2028 federal election. Michael,
19:12
Speaker 2: I was going to say, call me cynical, or rather don't,
19:14
Speaker 2: but actually you can go ahead and call me cynical
19:16
Speaker 2: if you want.
19:18
Speaker 4: Hmm. No, mate, this is a break with what Labor
19:22
Speaker 4: said to people, with what we said to people at
19:25
Speaker 4: the time, that these people, if they came to Australia illegally,
19:28
Speaker 4: they would never be granted.
19:31
Speaker 4: Status in Australia to become citizens or get permanent residency.
19:35
Speaker 4: This was our disincentive to the people smuggles and to
19:39
Speaker 4: people thinking of getting on these boats. And now look
19:42
Speaker 4: what happens. This is what Labor do. You do it
19:44
Speaker 4: in secret because they know the public don't like this.
19:48
Speaker 4: And by the way, James, what has happened to the
19:50
Speaker 4: status of the 3,000 Gaza refugees that Penny Wong and
19:54
Speaker 4: Tony Burke brought in a couple of years ago? Have
19:56
Speaker 4: they all returned home yet or are they still here?
20:01
Speaker 4: Where is Labor speaking about this issue as well? We
20:03
Speaker 4: hear nothing from them on that.
20:04
Speaker 3: Yeah.
20:05
Speaker 4: When they make these unpopular decisions, they never publicise them
20:08
Speaker 4: and just hope that News Limited don't notice.
20:11
Speaker 2: Stephen Conroy, I'm very sorry I have run out of time.
20:13
Speaker 2: I've got to go to a break. But I appreciate
20:16
Speaker 2: both of you being on the program tonight. Thanks so much.
20:19
Speaker 2: All right, after the break, Anthony Albanese had his New
20:21
Speaker 2: York minute, but what did it actually achieve? I'm going
20:25
Speaker 2: to recap the Prime Minister's trip with Greg Sheridan after
20:28
Speaker 2: the break. I think it's fair to say that Anthony
20:35
Speaker 2: Albanese's New York trip didn't exactly get off to a
20:38
Speaker 2: flying start.
20:40
Speaker 11: Prime Minister, here in New York on Wednesday night, you
20:42
Speaker 11: will receive an award for being a global citizen. Don't
20:46
Speaker 11: you feel like a bit of a fraud accepting this
20:48
Speaker 11: award when, at home, you screwed up the response to
20:52
Speaker 11: the worst massacre since Port Arthur? In the polls, you're
20:55
Speaker 11: taking Labor to one point shy of Julia Gillard when
20:58
Speaker 11: you rolled her. And your net negatives are worse than
21:02
Speaker 11: Scott Morrison's.
21:03
Speaker 1: No.
21:04
Speaker 2: And judging by the way it finished, the landing wasn't
21:07
Speaker 2: much better.
21:08
Speaker 3: It's not about misinformation or disinformation.
21:11
Speaker 10: With misinformation, disinformation.
21:13
Speaker 3: What this is about is giving people control.
21:17
Speaker 2: In between those two bookends, Anthony Albanese made speeches calling
21:21
Speaker 2: for global guardrails on AI, calls Donald Trump explicitly rejected
21:26
Speaker 2: while slamming Albanese's own digital laws as censorship.
21:30
Speaker 1: Then it was revealed that.
21:31
Speaker 2: An AI agent had hacked an Australian government website. Nothing says,
21:36
Speaker 2: we've got this, quite like that. There was, of course,
21:39
Speaker 2: the famous selfie with Donald Trump, although, as I revealed
21:42
Speaker 2: last week, it was less a great diplomatic catch-up on
21:45
Speaker 2: the sidelines of the UN and more a quick snap
21:48
Speaker 2: in front of a photo wall where the US president
21:50
Speaker 2: was posing for pictures with pretty much anyone who wandered past.
21:54
Speaker 2: So what exactly did Anthony Albanese achieve for Australia in
21:58
Speaker 2: New York?
21:59
Speaker 1: And perhaps more importantly.
22:00
Speaker 2: What did Elbow's trip reveal about Australia's place in the
22:03
Speaker 2: world under this Labor government? Joining me now is foreign
22:06
Speaker 2: editor at the Australian newspaper, Greg Sheridan. Greg, great to
22:10
Speaker 2: see you. How do you assess Albanese's New York trip?
22:19
Speaker 9: A meandering, ill-advised trip. It wasn't disastrous. He didn't do
22:25
Speaker 9: anything catastrophic like the Melingate business with the Japanese Prime Minister.
22:31
Speaker 9: But it had no purpose.
22:32
Speaker 10: Nothing came of it.
22:35
Speaker 9: It was inherently quite a dishonest trip because he would
22:38
Speaker 9: have these very, very brief pull-asides with other leaders. It's
22:43
Speaker 9: like being a fanboy at a Taylor Swift concert and
22:45
Speaker 9: getting a minute with the celebrity. And then his staff
22:50
Speaker 9: would put that out as a substantial meeting. Now, he
22:53
Speaker 9: had a couple of substantial bilateral meetings, one with Volodymyr Zelensky.
22:58
Speaker 9: And I mean, until this trip. Australia had been very
23:01
Speaker 9: stingy in the aid it provided the Ukrainians and one
23:04
Speaker 9: with the Netherlands Prime Minister, but none of the First
23:08
Speaker 9: Division players held a serious, well-prepared bilateral meeting, head of
23:14
Speaker 9: government to head of government, where you sit down for
23:16
Speaker 9: 45 minutes, you've got a couple of advisers and an
23:19
Speaker 9: agenda you work through. He had no message for the world.
23:22
Speaker 9: I mean, this is a government without an agenda other
23:26
Speaker 9: than political survival. It has no domestic agenda. It has
23:30
Speaker 9: no foreign agenda. I think he so far had one
23:33
Speaker 9: proper meeting with Donald Trump. You know, Tony Abbott had
23:37
Speaker 9: several meetings with Barack Obama, and he was only prime
23:40
Speaker 9: minister for two years. So I thought it was a
23:43
Speaker 9: kind of a lame, meandering, pointless trip that was a
23:49
Speaker 9: little bit embarrassing. And, you know, campaigning for a non-permanent
23:53
Speaker 9: seat on the United Nations Security Council was He's all
23:56
Speaker 9: well and good, but it's about a 99th order issue
23:58
Speaker 9: for Australian foreign policy, not worth a week of a
24:01
Speaker 9: prime minister's time. And there's no evidence that his presence
24:04
Speaker 9: there would have had any positive effect on our chances anyway.
24:07
Speaker 2: So given all of that, what have we learned about
24:10
Speaker 2: where Australia sits in the global scheme of things with
24:13
Speaker 2: Anthony Albanese in particular as our leader?
24:17
Speaker 9: Well, I think we're more marginal than we were. We
24:23
Speaker 9: have a few things going for us. We're a military
24:25
Speaker 9: ally of the United States. We're very rich and our
24:27
Speaker 9: geography counts for the United States. As a result, and
24:31
Speaker 9: I'll give Albanese credit for this, the institutional basis of
24:34
Speaker 9: the US-Australia alliance has deepened over the last few years
24:38
Speaker 9: as it deepened under the coalition. But plainly, no one
24:43
Speaker 9: in Washington takes a blind bit of notice of Albanese
24:45
Speaker 9: in terms of policy. There's a very important trilateral meeting,
24:49
Speaker 9: which the US Secretary of State Marco Rubio had with
24:52
Speaker 9: Japan and South Korea, really getting to the nitty gritty
24:55
Speaker 9: of artificial intelligence policy. Now, once upon a time, Australia
24:59
Speaker 9: was an automatic inclusion in meetings like that.
25:02
Speaker 10: No longer.
25:03
Speaker 9: Because we have no agenda, our economy is rich because
25:07
Speaker 9: of our minerals, but it's very anemic. It's a low
25:09
Speaker 9: growth economy. low productivity, high taxes, high regulation. It's not
25:13
Speaker 9: very attractive to anyone.
25:15
Speaker 10: We're sort of.
25:16
Speaker 9: Like a, you know, a version of a Middle East
25:19
Speaker 9: oil power, but without being in an interesting Middle East location. And,
25:25
Speaker 9: you know, I don't think he antagonised the president by
25:29
Speaker 9: going on a bit about artificial intelligence regulation. Lots of
25:33
Speaker 9: people are saying that. But he's just nowhere near the
25:36
Speaker 9: centre of events. I mean, this is a prime minister
25:38
Speaker 9: who really counts for very, very little on the international stage.
25:42
Speaker 9: While of course the underlying, you know, strengths of Australia,
25:46
Speaker 9: as I say, our economy, our geography and our mineral
25:49
Speaker 9: richness are still there.
25:52
Speaker 2: The contrast, you talked about AI, the contrast between, you know,
25:55
Speaker 2: you've got Donald Trump declaring winner takes all on AI
25:59
Speaker 2: and you've got our Prime Minister urging caution, issuing warnings,
26:02
Speaker 2: pleading for guardrails, the contrast could not have been more stark.
26:07
Speaker 2: What did that situation say about Anthony Albanese's approach to
26:11
Speaker 2: the world as opposed to Trump's?
26:15
Speaker 9: Well, to be honest with you, James, I don't like
26:17
Speaker 9: Trump or Albanese on artificial intelligence. I mean, I think
26:21
Speaker 9: Trump's position is unsustainable, that there needs to be no
26:24
Speaker 9: regulation of artificial intelligence. I think that's just unsustainable. Much
26:28
Speaker 9: better if the US government gets intimately involved. And I
26:33
Speaker 9: believe it is intimately involved. I mean, only Trump would
26:35
Speaker 9: say something as silly as we don't need any regulation
26:39
Speaker 9: and we'll solve all the problems if we just call
26:41
Speaker 9: it super intelligence. Well, that's Trump. That's Trump's madness. He's
26:44
Speaker 9: the most powerful man in the world. He gets away
26:46
Speaker 9: with quite a.
26:47
Speaker 10: Lot of madness.
26:48
Speaker 9: Albanese calling for regulation, there's nothing inherently wrong with that.
26:53
Speaker 9: But Australian regulation, of course, is not going to be important.
26:57
Speaker 9: I mean, if we're too regulatory or too legalistic or something,
27:00
Speaker 9: the AI companies won't bring their training here. And that
27:05
Speaker 9: will make it harder for us to come to grips
27:07
Speaker 9: with this technology. This technology is immensely important. Two nations
27:11
Speaker 9: have it, the US and China. China is not our friend.
27:14
Speaker 9: We may have been breached a million times already by
27:17
Speaker 9: Chinese artificial intelligence. We'll never know about it. The only
27:20
Speaker 9: way we're going to have any purchase on this technology
27:24
Speaker 9: or any ability to cope with it, and this could,
27:27
Speaker 9: you know, increase by a factor of 10 or 100
27:30
Speaker 9: the amount of money we have to pay for cyber security.
27:33
Speaker 9: The only way we're going to have any purchase on
27:34
Speaker 9: this is through our military alliance with the United States
27:38
Speaker 9: and the Australian Signals Directorate and other bodies like that
27:41
Speaker 9: getting as close to the Americans as they possibly can.
27:45
Speaker 9: So it's not that smart to present this as something
27:49
Speaker 9: where you're making a demand on Trump from outside. On
27:53
Speaker 9: the other hand, Trump is immensely unpopular now internally as
27:56
Speaker 9: well as internationally. So, I mean, he's got a lot
27:59
Speaker 9: more people to worry about before he gets down to
28:03
Speaker 9: Anthony Albanese. And Albanese, to his credit, has resisted personal
28:07
Speaker 9: criticism of Trump for the entirety of his prime ministership.
28:11
Speaker 10: That's good.
28:12
Speaker 9: That's basic common sense. So I think this trip was
28:15
Speaker 9: a great big nothing burger, really. Not too bad, not
28:19
Speaker 9: too good, just a big yawn, an incredible waste of
28:21
Speaker 9: a Prime Minister's time, as if he's got nothing better
28:24
Speaker 9: to do than swan around with Keanu Reeves at ridiculous
28:27
Speaker 9: awards ceremonies in New York, as if there's nothing else
28:32
Speaker 9: on his plate, no other matter that he needs to
28:34
Speaker 9: attend to.
28:35
Speaker 2: Greg Sheridan, I always enjoy our chats. Thank you so much.
28:39
Speaker 2: All right, coming up after the break, we head to
28:41
Speaker 2: the UK where a phone call from a humble farmer
28:44
Speaker 2: helped stop a suspected terror plot. And how did the
28:47
Speaker 2: British government end up granting citizenship to the former bodyguard
28:53
Speaker 2: of a Hamas leader?
28:54
Speaker 1: All of that with Patrick Christie's after this.
29:00
Speaker 2: Well, not for the first time, the British farming community
29:02
Speaker 2: has saved England's bacon. A suspected major terrorist attack was
29:06
Speaker 2: foiled overnight by a farmer who, returning home from a party,
29:10
Speaker 2: noticed three white vans on a country road just 400
29:13
Speaker 2: metres from the Royal Air Force Base in Gloucestershire. And
29:17
Speaker 2: then she saw masked men, which she described as being
29:19
Speaker 2: of Middle Eastern descent, running across a field towards the
29:23
Speaker 2: military base, which has been used by US Air Force
29:26
Speaker 2: jets to carry out strikes on Iranian missile sites. At
29:28
Speaker 2: this point, the woman did something increasingly unfashionable in Western cultures.
29:33
Speaker 2: She trusted her own eyes and immediately called the police.
29:37
Speaker 2: Five men suspected of terrorism and explosive offences have been arrested.
29:42
Speaker 2: Authorities are now investigating whether the plot is believed which
29:47
Speaker 2: is believed to have centred around vans that contained explosive devices,
29:52
Speaker 2: whether this plot was directed from Iran. So while Britain's
29:57
Speaker 2: political class worries endlessly about people noticing things they shouldn't,
30:00
Speaker 2: thank God one farmer noticed exactly what she should have noticed.
30:05
Speaker 2: Joining me now is GB News host Patrick Christies. Patrick,
30:08
Speaker 2: by all indications, this woman seems to have prevented a
30:11
Speaker 2: major terrorist attack.
30:14
Speaker 10: I mean, she might have actually seriously stopped a war, genuinely.
30:17
Speaker 12: It's hard to overstate how serious this could have been.
30:20
Speaker 10: Had they succeeded.
30:22
Speaker 12: In what it looks like they wanted to do with
30:23
Speaker 12: various different vehicles packed full of explosives and the military
30:27
Speaker 12: base there, if they'd have succeeded in.
30:29
Speaker 10: Blowing up US jets, killing US.
30:31
Speaker 12: Personnel, killing British service personnel right here on British soil,
30:35
Speaker 12: and it turned out that they are indeed linked to Iran,
30:38
Speaker 12: then I think we would probably have to go to
30:40
Speaker 12: war with Iran, wouldn't we? I mean, the Americans would
30:42
Speaker 12: certainly use that as another excuse to bomb the living
30:45
Speaker 12: daylights out of Tehran. We would then be expected to
30:48
Speaker 12: be involved in that. I think the British public would
30:49
Speaker 12: expect us to be involved in that. But thanks to
30:51
Speaker 12: this eagle-eyed farmer who has clearly not been infected by the,
30:55
Speaker 12: you know, woke mind virus here and actually did believe
30:58
Speaker 12: what she could see with her own eyes. It looks
31:00
Speaker 12: like that may have been stopped. Now, there's a little
31:02
Speaker 12: bit of a discrepancy going on here. So President Trump
31:04
Speaker 12: is saying, look, we were monitoring these guys.
31:07
Speaker 10: We knew what they were doing. We were bearing down
31:08
Speaker 10: on them for a while.
31:10
Speaker 12: The British government, been a bit slow out the traps here,
31:13
Speaker 12: has this morning said, look, we're really grateful to this farmer.
31:16
Speaker 12: Thank you very much for everything that you've done. But
31:18
Speaker 12: you're not seeing the full picture here. We did know
31:20
Speaker 12: about it. I tell you what, they let it run very,
31:22
Speaker 12: very close. Because these blokes had cars full of explosives, balaclavada,
31:27
Speaker 12: running in the woods towards the military base.
31:30
Speaker 10: I mean, how far are you going to let this run?
31:32
Speaker 10: The people of that village.
31:33
Speaker 12: By the way, all of them had to be evacuated
31:36
Speaker 12: and put in a leisure centre because of the amount
31:38
Speaker 12: of explosives. If this was a slick multinational intelligence operation,
31:42
Speaker 12: they have run that right to the wire before they've
31:45
Speaker 12: decided to step in.
31:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're absolutely right about that. I think the farmer
31:49
Speaker 2: should absolutely get a medal. Tell me about how this
31:53
Speaker 2: incident should be treated. I think I know how you're
31:56
Speaker 2: going to go with this, but let me put it
31:57
Speaker 2: to you. Should we treat this as an isolated curiosity
32:02
Speaker 2: or as a serious wake-up call for the UK?
32:06
Speaker 10: Absolutely massive wake-up call.
32:07
Speaker 12: The Iranians had previously told us that they were going
32:10
Speaker 12: to attack this base.
32:11
Speaker 10: So it wasn't really a secret.
32:13
Speaker 12: We've then had our foreign minister, Ed Miliband, going to
32:15
Speaker 12: the UN in New York and shaking hands with the
32:18
Speaker 12: Iranian foreign minister and telling him, hey, we will not
32:21
Speaker 12: tolerate any attacks on UK soil.
32:23
Speaker 10: About 48 hours later, this happens.
32:26
Speaker 12: The big thing that I find absolutely incomprehensible is, look,
32:29
Speaker 12: at the moment, we don't know who these guys are.
32:31
Speaker 12: Maybe they were born and raised in Britain. Maybe they
32:33
Speaker 12: came across the Channel on a small boat. Maybe they
32:35
Speaker 12: were immigrants.
32:36
Speaker 10: We don't know. Is this part of a bigger plot?
32:38
Speaker 12: However, at exactly the same time that these arrests were
32:41
Speaker 12: taking place, and right now, as I speak to you,
32:44
Speaker 12: we've got small boats crossing the English Channel.
32:47
Speaker 10: We've got people breaking into our country. We don't know
32:49
Speaker 10: who they are. We don't know where they're from.
32:50
Speaker 12: And I do find it absolutely incomprehensible that after this
32:53
Speaker 12: plot was was foiled at the last minute. We're still
32:56
Speaker 12: allowing that into Britain, and it's not the first of
32:59
Speaker 12: its kind. We've arrested numerous different Iranian nationals, very close
33:03
Speaker 12: to different British military, submarine bases, nuclear bases, etc. This
33:07
Speaker 12: is now becoming a regular thing here on British soil,
33:10
Speaker 12: and unfortunately, we've let that problem in, really.
33:14
Speaker 2: So, staying with the theme, I'm trying to understand how
33:18
Speaker 2: a former bodyguard of the leader of Hamas was granted asylum.
33:23
Speaker 1: And then British citizenship.
33:24
Speaker 2: This happened under David Cameron's Tory government, I might add.
33:28
Speaker 2: And then this man, who's been living in the UK
33:31
Speaker 2: for about 10 years, has now been charged, surprise, surprise,
33:35
Speaker 2: with plotting a terror attack against Jews in Germany. What
33:39
Speaker 2: do we know about this guy and what was he plotting?
33:42
Speaker 12: This is the most insane story I've ever covered, and
33:45
Speaker 12: that really is saying something. So we gave asylum and
33:48
Speaker 12: a British passport to the bodyguard of a former Hamas leader,
33:51
Speaker 12: even though we knew he had a history of gun smuggling.
33:55
Speaker 12: He lived in Britain. We gave him a house. In fact,
33:57
Speaker 12: it looks like we might have given him several different houses.
34:00
Speaker 12: He changed his identity several times. Then it was revealed
34:03
Speaker 12: that he used his British passport to travel to Qatar
34:06
Speaker 12: and Turkey regularly, which are Hamas-linked hotspots. Then it emerged
34:11
Speaker 12: he was plotting terrorist attacks across Europe, specifically, we think,
34:14
Speaker 12: Berlin and Vienna.
34:16
Speaker 10: And he used his.
34:17
Speaker 12: British passport to travel to these countries and smuggle guns around. Now,
34:20
Speaker 12: these included automatic weapons, pistols and ammunition. When he was arrested,
34:25
Speaker 12: it turned out he'd recorded, pre-recorded a jihadi video, which
34:29
Speaker 12: is one of those ones where they claim responsibility for
34:32
Speaker 12: the attacks.
34:32
Speaker 10: After the event. So he pre-recorded that.
34:35
Speaker 12: Then the British courts decided to give him a 100-year
34:40
Speaker 12: anonymity order to protect his own anonymity. And this is
34:45
Speaker 12: just absolutely bonkers. And the response from this government has
34:49
Speaker 12: been yesterday, last night, to announce that we are now
34:52
Speaker 12: opening up a route for more Palestinian and Gazan refugees.
34:57
Speaker 10: Their response to this is, we need more of the same.
35:00
Speaker 10: And just last week.
35:02
Speaker 12: It was revealed that Abu Hamza, you know, the old
35:04
Speaker 12: huck-handed hate cleric that was an al-Qaeda... inspired fanatic, the
35:09
Speaker 12: quite famous one who's currently in a US prison. We've
35:12
Speaker 12: given his wife a £ 1. 7 million council house in central London,
35:17
Speaker 12: and we're paying £ 70, 000 worth of taxpayers' money to renovate it.
35:21
Speaker 12: This is suicidal empathy. It's national suicide. It absolutely beggars belief.
35:26
Speaker 10: And the big question here in Britain now for people
35:28
Speaker 10: is how many more of these people are there in
35:31
Speaker 10: Britain that we don't know about?
35:32
Speaker 12: And And we've got lucky here in a way, but
35:36
Speaker 12: we might not keep getting lucky. And how does the
35:38
Speaker 12: British state expect the public to react if one of
35:41
Speaker 12: these people slips through the net and it turns out
35:43
Speaker 12: we've invited them in, treated them like royalty, and then
35:46
Speaker 12: they've killed a load of us?
35:47
Speaker 10: I mean, what is it they actually expect to happen there?
35:50
Speaker 1: Patrick, we in the West, we're all very polite, right?
35:53
Speaker 2: There's a terror attack, we get a grand piano, we
35:55
Speaker 2: play John Lennon's Imagine and we light some candles and
35:59
Speaker 2: then we forget about it and move on to the
36:01
Speaker 2: next one. Stuff like this, though, is just a whole
36:05
Speaker 2: other level. At what point do the polite citizenry say,
36:09
Speaker 2: we cannot take this anymore and things start to spiral
36:13
Speaker 2: out of control?
36:15
Speaker 12: Well, the only thing with this is that these stories
36:18
Speaker 12: are sensational for about 12 hours in Britain before another
36:21
Speaker 12: story like it happened and knocks.
36:23
Speaker 10: It down the news agenda.
36:25
Speaker 12: I mean, the asylum to the Hamas guy was the
36:27
Speaker 12: big news until we had five apparent Iranian-backed militants that
36:31
Speaker 12: were about to blow up a military base. I mean,
36:33
Speaker 12: now we've got a story that's just come across the
36:35
Speaker 12: English channel of a bloke who smuggled a 14-year-old girl
36:38
Speaker 12: across and lived with her in Manchester for... a couple
36:41
Speaker 12: of years undetected again. It's every single hour or every
36:45
Speaker 12: single few hours, there just seems to be another story
36:47
Speaker 12: that knocks it down the pecking order. And we're coming
36:48
Speaker 12: desensitized to this here in Britain. But when you see
36:51
Speaker 12: it all laid out in front of you in the
36:53
Speaker 12: manner in which, you know, you and I have just
36:54
Speaker 12: done here, it is the kind of thing that, you know,
36:57
Speaker 12: you think, Well, at what point do people start protesting?
37:00
Speaker 12: At what point do people start thinking, you know, I've
37:02
Speaker 12: had enough of this.
37:03
Speaker 10: I don't want to pay my taxes anymore.
37:04
Speaker 12: My taxes are going to Hamas militants that are living in.
37:08
Speaker 10: We've got a bigger house than I've got.
37:10
Speaker 1: It's ridiculous.
37:12
Speaker 2: Smaller stuff than this has inspired revolutions, that's for sure.
37:16
Speaker 2: Patrick Christies, always love catching up. Thanks so much for
37:18
Speaker 2: your time. All right, after the break, followers of a
37:21
Speaker 2: Muslim preacher are being told to take up arms and
37:25
Speaker 2: pressure mounts on Tony Burke to deny the visa of
37:27
Speaker 2: a streamer with extremist views who's booked to speak with
37:32
Speaker 2: our young people.
37:33
Speaker 1: All of that with my panel after this.
37:39
Speaker 2: You know, it's a real pity the government's Royal Commission
37:42
Speaker 2: into Anti-Semitism has already concluded because they could have called
37:46
Speaker 2: this guy to give evidence. Abu Hamad is an increasingly
37:50
Speaker 2: popular Muslim preacher in Melbourne where he teaches Islam out
37:54
Speaker 2: of the Al-Bayina Islamic Centre in Springvale. It's just been revealed,
37:59
Speaker 2: and when I say revealed, I mean someone's finally bothered
38:02
Speaker 2: to notice, that back in July he preached a sermon
38:05
Speaker 2: calling on Muslims to take up arms against.
38:08
Speaker 1: Jews and Christians.
38:10
Speaker 2: After instructing his congregation they should not be friends with
38:13
Speaker 2: Jews or with Christians. But apparently unfriending Jews and Christians
38:17
Speaker 2: is not quite enough. He added this, for the sake
38:21
Speaker 2: of Allah, it includes the obligation to declare enmity for
38:25
Speaker 2: his sake, opposition for the sake of Allah. It is
38:28
Speaker 2: to declare opposition indeed, to take up arms against his enemies,
38:32
Speaker 2: to shun them and to stay far away from both
38:35
Speaker 2: in word and deed. And then it seems to me
38:39
Speaker 2: that he clarified he wasn't speaking figuratively. He said, this
38:43
Speaker 2: proves that simple opposition of the spirit is not enough
38:46
Speaker 2: and that it must be complete by honouring your commitment.
38:50
Speaker 1: Not exactly a standard interfaith dialogue.
38:54
Speaker 2: Perhaps take it up with our take up arms is
38:56
Speaker 2: one of those wonderfully nuanced theological expressions. It sounds exactly
39:00
Speaker 2: like take up arms, but means something completely different once
39:03
Speaker 2: a lawyer gets involved. There's another interesting detail to all
39:07
Speaker 2: of this, though. This Muslim preacher, Abu Ahmad, has visited
39:12
Speaker 2: the same Sydney Islamic Prayer Centre reportedly attended by alleged
39:17
Speaker 2: Bondi gunman, Naveed Akram, where Akram allegedly formed connections with
39:22
Speaker 2: Islamic State supporters. Now, I'm not suggesting anything untoward. I'm
39:27
Speaker 2: merely noting the rather extraordinary irony that a preacher telling
39:31
Speaker 2: Muslims to stay far away from Jews and Christians appears
39:35
Speaker 2: to have been considerably less particular about some of his
39:38
Speaker 2: own associations. One nation leader, Pauline Hanson, has responded to
39:42
Speaker 2: all of this by calling on the Albanese government to
39:45
Speaker 2: create laws that deal directly with radical Islamists. In a
39:49
Speaker 2: social media post, she said, Labour and the Greens keep
39:52
Speaker 2: reaching for broad laws covering the whole community because they're
39:56
Speaker 2: too scared to confront radical Islamic terrorism directly. Stop lecturing
40:01
Speaker 2: the whole country and pretending every group presents the same risk.
40:04
Speaker 2: Christians aren't calling for jihad. Hindus aren't calling for jihad.
40:09
Speaker 2: Create laws that go directly after fundamentalist Islamic preachers who
40:13
Speaker 2: encourage terrorist violence and recruiters and networks supporting them. Joining
40:18
Speaker 2: me is News 24 contributor James Bolt and former Liberal senator,
40:22
Speaker 2: now with One Nation, Holly Hughes. James, does Pauline Hanson
40:26
Speaker 2: have a point here?
40:27
Speaker 13: She's got a little bit of a point in that
40:30
Speaker 13: Labor and the Greens are far too reticent to call
40:32
Speaker 13: out radical Islam. But the other stuff she said there,
40:36
Speaker 13: I've got to disagree with. All laws target all segments
40:40
Speaker 13: of the community. You can't just... rewrite one law to
40:43
Speaker 13: target one segment. It's going to affect all of us. Now,
40:45
Speaker 13: do I trust every single government that's going to be
40:48
Speaker 13: in power over me for the rest of my life
40:50
Speaker 13: to never think that anything I might say might be
40:54
Speaker 13: thought of as hateful or as thought of as something
40:56
Speaker 13: that needs to be actioned? So, look, you can't just
41:00
Speaker 13: say we need, you know, more laws, we need just
41:02
Speaker 13: random laws that are just going to stop this.
41:05
Speaker 2: It's an.
41:06
Speaker 1: We need.
41:07
Speaker 13: Like, we need to trust the laws that we already have,
41:09
Speaker 13: trust the police to be able to enforce the laws
41:11
Speaker 13: that we already have, and if we are going to
41:13
Speaker 13: start talking about future laws that need to change that,
41:15
Speaker 13: we need to just be aware that these laws could
41:17
Speaker 13: be used against views that we currently think are actually
41:20
Speaker 13: OK to say.
41:21
Speaker 2: Which is why this whole issue has been so vexed. Holly,
41:25
Speaker 2: we've got to be careful with this conversation, but I've
41:29
Speaker 2: long argued that treating all religions the same is not
41:31
Speaker 2: only theologically wrong and intellectually naive, it's dangerous.
41:37
Speaker 7: You couldn't be more right and Patrick Christie was just fantastic.
41:40
Speaker 7: We tend to be a couple of years after the
41:42
Speaker 7: UK and we seem to be walking blindly into radical
41:47
Speaker 7: Islam and their calls for jihad and for terrorism against
41:53
Speaker 7: Australian citizens, whether they be Christians or Jews. And the
41:57
Speaker 7: thing is when these sorts of jihadi activities take place,
42:01
Speaker 7: they aren't that discriminatory. They don't ask you to show
42:04
Speaker 7: your passport and what your religion is.
42:07
Speaker 1: Before they shoot.
42:08
Speaker 7: So, you know, I have absolutely no problem with what
42:11
Speaker 7: Pauline has said. It is Labor and the Greens that
42:14
Speaker 7: keep trying to bundle it all into one. And they
42:18
Speaker 7: can't help but say, oh, but the far right, it's
42:20
Speaker 7: not the far right. It isn't Christians.
42:23
Speaker 1: It isn't Jews.
42:24
Speaker 7: And as Pauline says, it isn't Hindus calling for this
42:27
Speaker 7: sort of action to be taken place on our side.
42:31
Speaker 7: soil now if this guy has dual citizenship he should
42:35
Speaker 7: be on the next plane out of here we do
42:38
Speaker 7: not want these people in our country and anyone who
42:40
Speaker 7: subscribes those views should be gone quicker than we can say.
42:44
Speaker 2: So These comments urging Muslims to take up arms against
42:48
Speaker 2: Jews and Christians, they weren't hidden. They were posted openly
42:52
Speaker 2: on social media. What does that say to you, James?
42:57
Speaker 13: The biggest worry I have on that one is that
42:59
Speaker 13: the comments were made in July. So, you know, this
43:02
Speaker 13: is a couple of months ago that we're now talking
43:04
Speaker 13: about this. So my worry is, like, how many of
43:06
Speaker 13: these videos are out there on social media that we
43:08
Speaker 13: just don't know about because they've never entered the public lexicon?
43:11
Speaker 1: But.
43:12
Speaker 13: To the point of like, you know, why would you
43:13
Speaker 13: post this on social media? You have to think that
43:15
Speaker 13: to a preacher like that, what he's saying is the truth.
43:18
Speaker 13: Why would he hide it? This is exactly the message
43:20
Speaker 13: he wants out there. And I know I seem like
43:22
Speaker 13: I'm going against what I said before about my love
43:25
Speaker 13: of free speech, but I'd have to imagine that exactly
43:27
Speaker 13: what he said in that video is something that could
43:29
Speaker 13: be captured under laws that we already have. So I
43:33
Speaker 13: worry it's not the fact that we don't have enough
43:35
Speaker 13: laws to go after people. I worry that It's not
43:37
Speaker 13: the inclination from the police or the resourcing from police
43:40
Speaker 13: that allows them to go after that. So, you know,
43:43
Speaker 13: in some level, it's good that we know about this
43:46
Speaker 13: because we can start to have a frank conversation about
43:49
Speaker 13: this preacher and about the people that share those views.
43:53
Speaker 10: But....
43:55
Speaker 13: It's pretty horrifying stuff.
43:57
Speaker 2: You know, I guess my thought when I see that
43:59
Speaker 2: stuff just posted, you know, unashamedly is, Holly, clearly.
44:03
Speaker 1: There's no fear of the law.
44:05
Speaker 2: Clearly there's no concern, oh, we better keep this quiet
44:07
Speaker 2: because if they find out what I've said, no worries
44:10
Speaker 2: about that at all from this person.
44:13
Speaker 7: But remember, we have preachers on the streets of Lakemba
44:16
Speaker 7: after October 7th saying this was a day of celebration.
44:20
Speaker 7: This is not new. Yet whether it's the AFP or
44:24
Speaker 7: the Albanese government that is too scared to take action
44:27
Speaker 7: on this, the very first and foremost priority of a
44:31
Speaker 7: federal government is to protect its citizens. And yet this
44:35
Speaker 7: government wants to take no action whatsoever. And we are now...
44:41
Speaker 7: walking three years to October 7th and they have done zero.
44:47
Speaker 7: They've called this Royal Commission kicking and screaming after the
44:51
Speaker 7: loss of 15 lives and yet not one of these
44:54
Speaker 7: hate preachers, not one of the ministers was called to
44:58
Speaker 7: talk about what they have done or not done to
45:02
Speaker 7: facilitate the growth of anti-Semitism and radical Islam in this country.
45:06
Speaker 7: It is an absolute disgrace and I am For one,
45:10
Speaker 7: and I know many, we've heard AFP experts say that,
45:15
Speaker 7: and ASIO experts say, that we are looking down the
45:18
Speaker 7: barrel of another attack. And yet this government is consistently
45:23
Speaker 7: sitting on its hands. I hope, and now I've got
45:26
Speaker 7: two James, James Bolt's right, that there are laws in
45:29
Speaker 7: place for this. So why aren't they being enacted?
45:32
Speaker 2: All right, while this Muslim preacher in Melbourne is urging
45:34
Speaker 2: followers to take up arms against Jews and Christians, Tony
45:38
Speaker 2: Burke is under pressure to refuse the visa of an
45:40
Speaker 2: online political commentator named Hasan Piker. Hasan Piker is an
45:44
Speaker 2: American-born man who converted to Islam in his teens, spent
45:48
Speaker 2: most of his childhood in Turkey. He's being promoted as
45:51
Speaker 2: a headline act at a youth-orientated digital creator event scheduled
45:56
Speaker 2: to take place in Melbourne in January. If you're not
45:58
Speaker 2: familiar with this guy, here's a small sample of his views.
46:01
Speaker 1: And remember, he's coming to talk to Melbourne young people.
46:06
Speaker 10: America deserved 9-11 dude oh my.
46:08
Speaker 14: God well hezbollah is a terrorist organization dog if hezbollah
46:11
Speaker 14: is a terrorist organization america is the top terrorist organization
46:16
Speaker 14: which it is by the way america is the top
46:17
Speaker 14: dog in terrorism doesn't matter doesn't matter if rapes happen
46:22
Speaker 14: on october 7 like that doesn't change the dynamic for
46:24
Speaker 14: me even this much hezbollah is a is a paramilitary
46:28
Speaker 14: organization that is also.
46:30
Speaker 1: A part of the lebanese parliament do we like them
46:33
Speaker 1: or no I think as a resistance group, they're pretty
46:38
Speaker 1: successful against Israel.
46:40
Speaker 10: I don't have an issue with them, let's just say.
46:43
Speaker 1: James, do we need this guy in Melbourne talking to
46:45
Speaker 1: our young people?
46:46
Speaker 13: Well, we don't need it. And for the people out
46:48
Speaker 13: there who didn't know who Hasan Paika was, I'm very
46:50
Speaker 13: envious of you. You know, I wish I didn't know
46:53
Speaker 13: who that was. But I just wonder, like, what does
46:55
Speaker 13: banning this guy's visa actually do? As you just played,
46:58
Speaker 13: we can watch what Hasan Paika says. Like, if I
47:00
Speaker 13: wanted to, I could watch a three-hour stream today. I
47:02
Speaker 13: don't want to.
47:03
Speaker 1: No-one should.
47:04
Speaker 13: But you can do that. So, would banning a visa
47:07
Speaker 13: just be us as a country going, you know, like,
47:09
Speaker 13: it makes us feel better to know this person can't
47:11
Speaker 13: get in?
47:11
Speaker 2: Well, again, I don't worry. Doesn't it say the same
47:14
Speaker 2: as in my own house? I just don't let anyone
47:16
Speaker 2: into my house, especially people who say such vile stuff.
47:20
Speaker 1: I'm just saying... Agreed... we don't want you here.
47:21
Speaker 13: But then, like, doesn't Tony Burke then get to say, well,
47:23
Speaker 13: how about all those Israeli politicians that I've banned and
47:26
Speaker 13: Israeli speakers that I've banned? Like, people find them just
47:29
Speaker 13: as hateful. I'm not saying I find them hateful, but
47:31
Speaker 13: people find them just as hateful. How can we turn
47:33
Speaker 13: around and say, you know, we want Hassan Paika not
47:37
Speaker 13: allowed in the country, but all those other people... that,
47:40
Speaker 13: you know, the Greens don't want here, they shouldn't be
47:42
Speaker 13: allowed in.
47:43
Speaker 1: Holly, I think you'll probably have a slightly different take.
47:48
Speaker 9: Oh, you think?
47:49
Speaker 7: Absolutely not. I mean, this guy should be banned from
47:52
Speaker 7: the country. He is abhorrent in his views. Everything he says,
47:56
Speaker 7: as a woman to hear him say, rape is excusable.
47:59
Speaker 7: I mean, on God's great notes, what are we doing
48:02
Speaker 7: allowing these people to come in? And I bet Tony
48:07
Speaker 7: Burke does. But if you look at Melbourne and the
48:10
Speaker 7: crime rates they've already got there and what's going on, yeah,
48:13
Speaker 7: let's radicalise them all a little bit more, shall we?
48:16
Speaker 1: How disgraceful.
48:18
Speaker 2: I've got to say the UK did ban him from
48:21
Speaker 2: entering England. They said they could do without his influence.
48:24
Speaker 2: We'll see what Tony Burke does. James Bolt, Holly Hughes,
48:27
Speaker 2: always lovely chatting. Thanks so much for your time. Thanks
48:30
Speaker 2: for watching at home. I'll see you tomorrow night. Right now,
48:32
Speaker 2: here's Shari Markson.