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S2E13: Jasper Ceylon · Black Ibis Social Club

0:12
SPEAKER_00: Yo, hey, welcome back to the Black Ibis Social Club.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: Tonight's kind of a weird, weird start.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be me.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Fisto's decided to not show up.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Actually, that's not true.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Fisto's here.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: He's in the ether.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: He's in the cyberspace.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: But I've got a guest tonight, Mr. Jasper Ceylon.
0:32
He's a poet,
0:34
editor,
0:35
writer,
0:36
some kind of a young degenerate of some sort.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: He's friends with our last guest, Mr. Noah, maybe.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: I think that's who introduced me to him.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: But he's dropping by to talk about his work.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: And Fisto should join us sometime later.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: So what's up, Jasper?
0:53
SPEAKER_01: Hey, man.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: How's it going?
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Welcome, man.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you joined us.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Looking forward to having a cool, quick chat with you tonight.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: Besides the introductions and everything,
1:06
let me think of what's going on in the world that I want to
1:10
mention in today's episode.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Nothing interesting.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, Val Kilmer passed away yesterday.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh, shit, eh?
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, did you hear that?
1:21
SPEAKER_01: I did not.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: The Iceman, Doc Holliday, you know?
1:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: He was a good actor.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: He was in Heat.
1:29
Heat was a fucking fantastic movie that I really enjoyed when I
1:34
saw it multiple times.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: All right, Jasper.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: So you're a poet, man.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: You're a poet and an editor.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: You took over for Know What at Per Ube Press, right?
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Tell me about yourself a little bit.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: Introduce yourself.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:52
So I've been a poet under,
1:54
let's say,
1:55
a few different names for maybe about six years.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: And I've fiddled around in everything, like minimalisms and free verse to
2:05
SPEAKER_01: super traditional this or that forms, as you do.
2:10
But I guess when I made the move to Freeverse,
2:17
I started really keeping tabs on the industry.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, wow, this is fucked.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: These guys, what are they doing?
2:27
SPEAKER_01: So I started getting into magazines and all that sort of stuff.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: But I came up across a few barriers, let's say.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: Like I knew I could get into decent magazines,
2:38
SPEAKER_01: but whenever I tried to sort of hit the sort of upper echelon on,
2:42
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
2:44
SPEAKER_01: um,
2:44
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
2:44
SPEAKER_01: I'd run into a few different roadblocks.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: And so I kept working away at all that sort of stuff,
2:50
but then I kind of gradually came up with the plan for Echo
2:54
Lally or review.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: And then, um, I hooked up with Noah there, um, found them on chill subs.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I, I figured I'm like, uh,
3:04
presses are this is just too hot for certain presses they don't
3:07
want the flack from
3:08
this so let me reach out to someone who seems to like you know
3:12
get internet culture
3:13
and isn't afraid to take chances and stuff so um i sent it over
3:18
to him he was super
3:20
impressed with it uh he described me as uh ezra pound if you're
3:24
a discord user
3:25
SPEAKER_01: which i thought was really funny
3:29
SPEAKER_00: All right.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: Look, that's a great compliment.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: And I hope that all the listeners – you know what?
3:36
I have faith deep down,
3:38
deep down in my soulless self that our listeners know who Ezra
3:43
Pound is.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, we don't have to talk about Ezra Pound.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: What phase?
3:49
Like pre-World War II Ezra Pound or full-blown schizoid
3:52
post-World War II in prison
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Ezra Pound on Discord?
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:56
oh yeah no that's a good question i mean like i feel like i'm
3:59
still at this point
4:00
put together enough where i'm not pre or sorry post world war
4:04
ii him yet but like
4:05
if something really bad happens i think we're going in that
4:08
direction but right all
4:11
SPEAKER_00: right so based on uh um
4:13
SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about ecolalia in a bit,
4:16
SPEAKER_00: but,
4:18
SPEAKER_00: you know,
4:18
SPEAKER_00: what would you describe your – what would your poetry fit in,
4:23
SPEAKER_00: you know,
4:25
SPEAKER_00: using your own chart in the magazine there?
4:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, gen alpha betas, right?
4:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:34
Yeah,
4:37
some of those charts were just,
4:38
or the movements I predict were just absolutely fucked.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: In terms of,
4:43
SPEAKER_01: I did actually insert myself into one of them,
4:47
SPEAKER_01: but it's blacked out because I thought,
4:49
SPEAKER_01: well,
4:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to dox myself just yet.
4:53
so i think it's the pre post post post ironism yeah yeah i
4:59
think that's that's
5:00
where i fit in at this point i thought you're a dark dirt hog
5:04
savage oh yeah yeah
5:07
SPEAKER_00: dirt hog
5:10
SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about this later, guys.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: You guys have no idea what the fuck we're talking about.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm laughing about it.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe Guamanian central futurism.
5:19
I've been to Guam,
5:20
you know,
5:20
so I've met some Guamanian central futurists,
5:23
right?
5:25
SPEAKER_00: They're hanging out around outside of a barbershop spoken word.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: There's some good poetry.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: So, okay.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to...
5:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to approach the conversation about contemporary poetry from the
5:42
SPEAKER_00: perspective of a Philistine,
5:43
SPEAKER_00: just a complete and total savage outside.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: Is there a poetry scene right now?
5:50
SPEAKER_00: Does it exist?
5:51
SPEAKER_00: Is poetry something that people write or read at all?
5:55
SPEAKER_00: Or is it like classical music where certain people are into it,
6:01
SPEAKER_00: but it's not a mainstream thing anymore?
6:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
6:07
SPEAKER_01: you know,
6:07
that's something that I had to confront when I was getting into
6:11
the industry,
6:11
SPEAKER_01: because I didn't really know if people were really,
6:16
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
6:18
SPEAKER_01: even writing poetry anymore,
6:19
SPEAKER_01: reading it.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: So I guess in my research and experience,
6:24
SPEAKER_01: I've found that,
6:25
SPEAKER_01: yes,
6:26
SPEAKER_01: people are definitely still reading it and writing it.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: In fact, too many people are writing it, I would argue.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: That's all writing, unfortunately, right now.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
6:35
SPEAKER_01: like it's there's a we've hit a real point of saturation,
6:40
SPEAKER_01: oversaturation,
6:41
SPEAKER_01: even with poetry in particular.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: Now, obviously, I don't want for poetry to just go away.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to have no one reading it or writing it.
6:51
But I think predominantly the sort of easy Instagram poetry
6:57
style that you see from
6:58
SPEAKER_01: Rupi Kaur and all those types has kind of become the predominant mode.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: Perfect example.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: So guys like Atticus and Lang Leiv or whatever.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: And I mean,
7:14
SPEAKER_01: I even at one point,
7:15
SPEAKER_01: allegedly,
7:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to dox myself,
7:17
SPEAKER_01: but I see it in the collection.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: I had an Instagram where I sort of parodied those styles, but for guys.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: But then that shit.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: Did you post like black and white pictures of like,
7:32
bowl of like like a ice or something like that and fucking
7:36
write a haiku about
7:38
dipping your face in it or something or your balls or something
7:41
because that's all
7:42
that it's all that shit it's like a black and white picture of
7:44
some bitch in a pool
7:45
SPEAKER_00: or something and then like some like extra sappy shit you know
7:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it was exactly that.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: And I was just writing the dumbest fucking shit you could to see if,
7:56
SPEAKER_01: like,
7:56
SPEAKER_01: people would find it funny or if they would,
7:58
SPEAKER_01: like,
7:59
SPEAKER_01: unironically like it.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: And they did.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: Like,
8:02
SPEAKER_01: that stuff took off way faster than anything else I'd been doing,
8:05
SPEAKER_01: like,
8:05
SPEAKER_01: on the serious end of things.
8:08
So in Echo,
8:09
I put,
8:10
like,
8:10
a collection of,
8:11
I guess,
8:12
some of the most popular ones in there.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: So that's why you have that sort of Insta-poetry corner section of it.
8:19
SPEAKER_03: Right.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: But,
8:21
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
8:21
SPEAKER_01: all those were,
8:23
SPEAKER_01: like,
8:23
SPEAKER_01: popular online,
8:24
SPEAKER_01: so I illustrated them and all that shit in different styles.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: But that, I would say, gets the most traction.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: Like,
8:32
SPEAKER_01: you can gain,
8:32
SPEAKER_01: like,
8:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
8:34
fucking 50,000 followers still on Instagram just pumping out
8:38
the most generic,
8:39
SPEAKER_01: like,
8:40
SPEAKER_01: mind-numbing guff.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: And I've seen people do it.
8:44
I've met people,
8:45
like,
8:45
writers groups that I went to and ones that I ran and all that shit.
8:49
would come in with like 70 000 followers and i'd look up their
8:52
shit and be like
8:52
you're barely literate like shit like period like pomegranate
8:58
seeds or something
9:00
yeah i mean you know the the greatest poetry book i own
9:04
actually i have it
9:04
somewhere here in my room uh is uh um what's her name um lana
9:10
del rey's poetry book
9:11
SPEAKER_00: i don't know if you're familiar with it it's
9:13
oh shit i heard about it i haven't read it though you know it's
9:15
awful dude it's
9:16
it's one of the worst fucking things i've ever read and i love
9:19
lana darray but it's
9:21
it's instagram poetry you know she definitely needs to stick to
9:27
writing songs about
9:28
SPEAKER_00: lolita that's that's her that's her lane right there but um
9:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: I knew a poet once when I was in my 20s, well, early 20s.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: He was a very stereotypical poet.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: This was in Los Angeles.
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SPEAKER_00: And he was a dude.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, my friend group were all in our early 20s.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I was 21 or something.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: And this guy was in his mid-30s, the kind of guy with like
9:54
long hair but you know fighting the find the receding hairline
9:57
a bit and used to
9:58
wear like the tan leather trench coats and uh you know he's
10:03
always trying to sleep
10:04
with like 19 year old girls the whole time and uh he was a he
10:08
was a character man
10:09
he was like the stereotype of like that poetry dork you know
10:13
like in the coffee
10:14
shop but fucking friends episode you know just always writing
10:19
poetry and talking
10:20
SPEAKER_00: about byron and shit and shelly and i'm just like oh
10:25
Like,
10:26
dude,
10:28
of course he was a teacher,
10:29
you know,
10:29
so it was extra,
10:31
you know.
10:32
That's what I usually think about,
10:34
you know,
10:34
when I think about poetry,
10:36
unfortunately.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: But,
10:37
SPEAKER_00: you know,
10:40
SPEAKER_00: without,
10:41
SPEAKER_00: you know,
10:41
SPEAKER_00: in the real talk,
10:43
you're obviously into poetry and you think that it's a
10:47
worthwhile art form,
10:48
SPEAKER_00: which I agree with you if you agree with me,
10:51
SPEAKER_00: you know.
10:52
uh what do you what are your inspirations what do you think is
10:55
good stuff out there
10:58
yeah so like uh it's tough because you know i run into people
11:03
like the guy you
11:04
mentioned all the time and like they their hearts in it like
11:08
they really like
11:09
poetry and they tend to like gravitate to the older poets you
11:13
know the romantics
11:14
SPEAKER_01: and such um
11:16
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I did the worst of issue one was Shelly inspired.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: I saw that one.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like they hate that in contemporary poetry for sure.
11:30
So like there's been a real bifurcation basically between the
11:35
traditionalists like
11:36
SPEAKER_01: probably that guy was and the fake dude that I put in the magazine.
11:42
where they just like want to write in fixed meter and they
11:45
don't want poetry to really move on
11:48
And then there's the sort of contemporary poets who have moved on,
11:52
let's say,
11:53
too far.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: And they've just split off in so many different directions,
11:57
SPEAKER_01: but they have no real sense of...
12:01
SPEAKER_01: They're not grounded in anything.
12:02
And it's very hard to get pockets of them together to do
12:06
anything worthwhile.
12:08
I make the case that artistic movements are basically dead in
12:11
general because...
12:12
there are just so many ideas and styles in the contemporary way
12:16
of doing things and
12:18
then obviously the third is the instagram poets but they're
12:21
barely poets i guess so
12:24
SPEAKER_01: um i don't know like i guess
12:28
SPEAKER_01: My inspirations mostly come from,
12:31
SPEAKER_01: even though I make fun of them endlessly,
12:33
SPEAKER_01: contemporary poets,
12:34
SPEAKER_01: because I feel like every art form has to go through phases naturally,
12:40
SPEAKER_01: otherwise it just stultifies and it starts to just die.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: So if you were to follow the Byron-loving types of the world,
12:48
people would just realize that the best of that style was
12:52
written 200 fucking years ago,
12:54
SPEAKER_01: and we should leave it there.
12:57
You're not going to outright Byron because he was writing in a
13:00
mode that was
13:01
SPEAKER_01: natural to that time period.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: So if you try to fake it now,
13:05
you're really just like this kind of strange epigome and
13:10
groping it like a style
13:13
SPEAKER_01: that
13:14
isn't isn't natural to your i i guess uh era so it's
13:21
anachronistic basically you
13:24
know and it comes off as just fake and gay to be honest you
13:27
know yeah yeah that's
13:29
SPEAKER_00: pretty much it like
13:31
SPEAKER_00: And you can apply the same exact thing to visual arts.
13:38
You get those kind of internet chuds that are always posting
13:41
their fucking 19th
13:43
SPEAKER_00: century symbolist paintings or that type of thing.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, dude...
13:50
SPEAKER_00: You can't just paint like pre-Raphaelites forever because the medium,
13:58
SPEAKER_00: the message,
13:58
the form needs to move and it needs to be in conversation with
14:04
the past but you
14:05
SPEAKER_00: have to be in the present or the future.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's exactly it.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: You can be as counter-cultury as you want,
14:16
SPEAKER_01: as I am,
14:16
SPEAKER_01: but you have to acknowledge that these things have to keep moving.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: They have to keep expanding.
14:21
Sometimes they'll sort of contract based on certain pressures,
14:25
but you have to let it live.
14:28
um and yeah all that uh shutters out there and stuff it's in
14:34
both directions man
14:35
right you know yeah and it's not just it's not just poetry it's
14:39
a it's sculpture
14:40
it's uh you know it's architecture with the guys posting you
14:45
know architecture and
14:46
it's like no we can't you can't do that you know you gotta you
14:50
gotta be some sort
14:51
SPEAKER_00: of uh moving forward
14:53
SPEAKER_00: You know,
14:53
SPEAKER_00: when you messaged me wanting to be on here,
14:55
SPEAKER_00: I was like,
14:55
SPEAKER_00: oh,
14:56
SPEAKER_00: man,
14:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't really – I'm not really a big poetry guy.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: So I'm probably not going to be – I'm going to be at a loss.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: So I'm looking at my shelf, okay?
15:03
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, let me see what poetry I got here.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: So I got – actually, I own a few poetry books.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: So you ready to make fun of me?
15:12
SPEAKER_00: All right.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: I got Bukowski, The Last Night of the Earth Poems.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you got to have Bukowski.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: I got Wallace Stevens.
15:21
okay good choice yeah all right i got a um a book of japanese
15:27
death poems i picked
15:28
SPEAKER_00: up in narita airport oh dude i still i have the same one
15:33
SPEAKER_00: I was like stuck in Narita airport for like a few hours,
15:36
SPEAKER_00: you know,
15:36
SPEAKER_00: I was like,
15:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh fuck,
15:37
SPEAKER_00: I need somebody to read.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: And I just saw it and I picked it up.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: I got, uh, I got, I got the collected poems of Sylvia Plath.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh shit.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
15:45
I got probably my favorite Pope besides Bukowski,
15:49
WB Yeats,
15:50
um,
15:51
his,
15:51
his collected poems.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Let me see what else I got here.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: I think that's it.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: No, I got a Louise Gluck collection.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they love her.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: I do like her.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: I know she's kind of a fan.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm not a fan of the shitloads lover, but I do like her work.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the shitlibs love her for sure.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: I included at least one reference to her.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: I think it was in the description for Echolalia Journal.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: They were looking for his copy of Louise Gluck or something like that.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I saw that.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: Her stuff's good.
16:29
I do like that Wallace Stevens got in a fist fight with
16:34
Hemingway or something like that,
16:35
SPEAKER_00: or that's the story behind it.
16:38
The only thing that's ruined about Wallace Stevens is that I
16:40
think Stephen King
16:41
used one of his poems in one of his novels and it's kind of
16:45
become like normie,
16:47
SPEAKER_00: core,
16:48
SPEAKER_00: chuddery because of that.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: But he's all right for mid-20th century stuff.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, there it goes.
16:55
My collection is very normie if you don't include some of the
16:58
Romanian stuff I have,
16:59
which
17:00
SPEAKER_00: probably never heard of, so it doesn't matter.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's not bad.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: Honestly,
17:05
SPEAKER_01: I've had people tell me they're into poetry,
17:08
SPEAKER_01: and I've taken a look at their bookshelf,
17:10
SPEAKER_01: and all you can do at that point is be polite,
17:13
SPEAKER_01: but I don't have to actually be polite.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: You've got a couple good choices in there.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: All you need to read is Bukowski.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Actually, I do have...
17:20
In the other room,
17:21
if I got my wife,
17:22
like our main bedroom,
17:23
there is a Rupi Kowar book.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: All right.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: And there is the Atticus book.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: So I'll.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: All right.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, if you have a wife, you got to have those around.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: It's just kind of comes with the sort of female presence.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is what it is.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: But so do you.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: So what do you think about like.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: Is poetry something.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: You know,
17:50
SPEAKER_00: okay,
17:51
so for all the shit-talking on Rupi Kaur and Atticus and all
17:55
that kind of stuff,
17:56
SPEAKER_00: they are in a way – look,
17:59
SPEAKER_00: so when you think of poetry,
18:01
SPEAKER_00: right,
18:01
SPEAKER_00: you –
18:02
SPEAKER_00: you immediately assume kind of like the short story market, right?
18:05
SPEAKER_00: You know,
18:05
SPEAKER_00: the short story fiction,
18:06
SPEAKER_00: even the big,
18:07
SPEAKER_00: even the big like magazines,
18:09
SPEAKER_00: the only fucking people that read short stories,
18:11
SPEAKER_00: you know,
18:12
SPEAKER_00: are people that submit short stories,
18:14
SPEAKER_00: right?
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Or are writing short stories, right?
18:16
SPEAKER_00: It's just kind of the truth, you know?
18:18
It's kind of like on Bandcamp,
18:19
the only other people that listen to Bandcamp shit is like,
18:23
SPEAKER_00: people in bands, right?
18:25
SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the downside of it, right?
18:27
But people like Rupi Kaur,
18:29
whoever the fuck she is,
18:30
they've kind of broken into the mainstream.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: So in a way, she's not a bad thing, right?
18:35
Because she's proven that there is a market or at least there
18:41
is a normie interest in
18:44
SPEAKER_00: for it.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: So what do you think about that?
18:46
Do you think that you can have a poetry collection that goes
18:49
outside the fucking
18:52
SPEAKER_00: creeps that just read poetry?
18:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: Is there like a, I want to see what you want.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: You know,
18:59
SPEAKER_01: I think you can,
19:01
SPEAKER_01: you know,
19:02
SPEAKER_01: like every time I go into up here in Canada,
19:06
SPEAKER_01: it's like a chapters.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: I'll go into chapters.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: I'll go to the arts and letters section.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: I'll go to the poetry section.
19:13
And most of the time,
19:14
the new additions are like,
19:16
was it Megan Fox wrote a poetry book recently?
19:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:21
um and you know it's celebrities writing poetry books I'm like
19:26
okay Lana Del Rey
19:27
whatever the fuck and I'll flip through it I'll know that you
19:30
know they're not
19:30
trained poets so it's it's fine like they can they can do that
19:34
like if it gets
19:35
people reading poetry I I used to just like you know fucking
19:39
foam at the mouth
19:41
SPEAKER_01: going in there reading that shit but I've gotten over it so
19:44
um like yeah you got those types in there and then you'll have
19:48
some like quote
19:49
unquote serious poets mixed in sort of but it's usually quite
19:54
um politically
19:55
charged content about this or that identities experience or the
20:00
latest syrian to
20:01
SPEAKER_01: like roll over in a boat to fucking i don't know
20:06
newfoundland or some shit right refugee shit or something like
20:11
that yeah getting
20:13
raped by somebody or something yeah yeah unfortunately and i
20:17
mean i don't mean to
20:17
SPEAKER_01: laugh at that experience but it's just that's what it is man it's just
20:24
SPEAKER_01: There's so much of it.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: It's just fucking nonsense.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: Like just the sheer volume of it.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: I don't have an issue with the subject matter most of the time.
20:35
It's just that is what kind of people see when they think of
20:40
contemporary poetry
20:42
SPEAKER_01: and they read like poetry journals.
20:45
um they're they're kind of seeing that or they're thinking of
20:50
bling lev and all
20:51
that um you you're probably you're probably younger yet much
20:55
younger than me right
20:56
i don't know um i'm gonna assume you're probably 20 years
20:59
younger than me because
21:00
i'm 42 right um yeah in the 90s you know there was this you
21:04
know everybody knows
21:05
SPEAKER_00: this but it was a popular show called married with children right and
21:09
and uh it was a fucking great show like it was a show that
21:14
would never like you can
21:15
never play it they can never be on tv right now it just it was
21:18
too based and
21:19
fucking it just you can't right but there's there's this
21:24
episode where you know
21:26
SPEAKER_00: kind of a repeating motif is like all the dudes uh
21:30
l bundy and his crew of like degenerate like loser husbands
21:33
right uh are in this
21:35
group called no ma'am this anti-feminist like misogynist crowd
21:41
right and you walk
21:42
SPEAKER_00: around with these like shirts that have like you know the the female
21:46
SPEAKER_00: uh, circle cross thing or whatever symbol.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: And it's a crossed out and shit.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: And, uh, they go to the strip club.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: It's like,
21:52
SPEAKER_00: they call it,
21:52
SPEAKER_00: it's like the nudie bar that they always go to,
21:55
SPEAKER_00: but they walk in and the nudie bar has been,
21:57
SPEAKER_00: uh,
21:58
SPEAKER_00: sold and it's been turned into like a poetry cafe.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh fuck.
22:02
And there's,
22:03
they go in there and they're all,
22:05
they're all amped up ready.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, they got bills in their hands, you know, titties and stuff.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: And this big old fat woman comes out,
22:12
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:12
she comes out and she like sits like on the stool and she
22:16
starts reading a poem,
22:17
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:17
SPEAKER_00: it's like a poetry fucking show.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: And, uh,
22:21
it's it's about her ovaries and it's like my eggs my eggs my
22:26
beautiful eggs and
22:27
he's like what the fuck they're expecting a stripper yeah and
22:32
that's for some
22:33
reason whenever i think poetry ever since i watched as a kid
22:36
that's what i
22:37
immediately think of you know just this i would fucking youtube
22:41
that scene just so
22:41
you could see this chicken it was fucking hilarious but yeah i
22:45
mean it i think it's
22:47
SPEAKER_00: cool i think it's cool that like
22:49
SPEAKER_00: there is poetry,
22:50
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:50
SPEAKER_00: and there is...
22:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
22:51
SPEAKER_00: poetry is one of the most important art forms.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Some of our oldest historical literary tradition is poetry, right?
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, pre-modern fiction was...
23:04
in in poetic form there's the poetic eddas and there's the the
23:08
greek poems and and
23:09
uh just you know poetry just is the foundation of literature if
23:13
you really want to
23:14
want to be honest right and some of the great works of art that
23:19
we refer to are in
23:21
long form like epic poetry like you know beowulf or you know
23:26
this the stuff you
23:27
pick up in ancient literature and medieval literature and that
23:30
kind of stuff
23:31
SPEAKER_00: So in a way, it's sad that so much of it has become associated with
23:42
utmost corny shit livery in a way you know or like that college
23:46
professor with the
23:47
turtleneck um i mean there's an era of like you know slam
23:51
poetry and stuff which
23:53
kind of was somewhat cool and punk rock kind of brought poetry
23:57
more into the the
23:58
cooler phase right but for the most part i haven't really heard
24:02
of much anything
24:03
poetry in a while you know um yeah is there scenes in bigger
24:08
cities i mean i live
24:09
SPEAKER_00: in savannahed
24:11
basically savannah georgia right and there's a lot of there's a
24:15
decent art scene
24:16
around here but not huge like literary scene it's more visual
24:19
art um yeah is there
24:23
does new york have one uh yeah so like um again i can't fully
24:30
dox myself but let's
24:32
SPEAKER_01: say i'm
24:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm not fully in with the New York scene,
24:36
SPEAKER_01: but I've been around to the point where I've,
24:42
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
24:43
SPEAKER_01: talked to either in person or through sort of email or whatever,
24:48
SPEAKER_01: through publishers.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: like big name figures,
24:51
SPEAKER_01: but mostly,
24:52
SPEAKER_01: uh,
24:53
SPEAKER_01: through like pros,
24:56
SPEAKER_01: um,
24:56
SPEAKER_01: just like novelists and stuff,
24:58
SPEAKER_01: because poets just,
25:00
SPEAKER_01: no matter how big they are,
25:02
SPEAKER_01: unless you're Ocean Wong and they all fucking love Ocean Wong.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: Don't even get me started on him.
25:06
Uh,
25:08
you're kind of just,
25:10
no matter how good you are,
25:11
you're just not really a major player.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: Um,
25:15
so like yeah if you want fame and fortune and all that sort of
25:19
stuff become a
25:20
novelist um because really no matter how good you are unless
25:25
you've got you're
25:26
checking those boxes all of them that some of my personas would
25:30
have um you're just
25:32
SPEAKER_01: gonna kind of fucking die in obscurity like um
25:36
SPEAKER_01: Norm Sebum and all those guys like.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: So,
25:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
25:41
SPEAKER_01: to answer your question from before,
25:44
SPEAKER_01: you could have the greatest poetry collection in the world.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: You could write the next great Beowulf.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: You could write the next great this or that cantos from Ezra Pound.
25:54
but yeah i mean you're gonna have the diehards who seek you out
25:58
and respect what
25:59
you're doing uh but really you're not gonna be getting
26:04
multinational book deals and
26:06
stuff like that again unless this is coming from like you know
26:10
black woman with
26:11
SPEAKER_01: like one leg right so
26:15
It's really unfortunate,
26:16
and that's kind of one of the things I ran up against as well.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: Just, I mean, there is a ceiling for poetry right now.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: People every now and again break through,
26:25
but they're almost always industry plants or they're used to
26:30
just promote a certain message,
26:32
SPEAKER_01: let's say.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: So,
26:35
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
26:35
like a straight white guy coming through with the fucking next
26:38
Beowulf would be
26:40
SPEAKER_01: just almost pretty unheard of.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Impossible, right?
26:44
SPEAKER_00: There's no T.S.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Eliot out there.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: There's no Ezra Pound.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: There's just nothing, right?
26:50
SPEAKER_00: It's nothing.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: In about a few minutes, Fisto's going to be on here.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm saving Icolalia for him.
26:59
I want to wait for him before we talk about that because I know
27:01
he's going to have some input.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: So 20th century poets, who do you like?
27:10
SPEAKER_01: Which century?
27:11
SPEAKER_01: 21st or 20th?
27:12
SPEAKER_00: 20th, right?
27:14
Something that,
27:14
like,
27:16
you know,
27:16
this is before the ceiling came down,
27:19
you know?
27:20
SPEAKER_00: So...
27:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
27:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
27:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have to go with obviously my boy Ezra Pound,
27:26
SPEAKER_01: although I actually don't really like his individual poems sometimes,
27:30
SPEAKER_01: if I'm honest.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: I've read a lot of his stuff.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: The Cantos are brilliant, but schizophrenic.
27:37
But I mean,
27:39
I have like six different collections of his with various work
27:43
from various phases.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: And I think I'm more, I enjoy more what he stands for.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: Read into that and what you will.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: But T.S.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: Eliot, of course.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: Wallace Stevens.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: If I had to look at my bookshelf here.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: There are many.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: There are honestly tons.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: And I still discover them every day.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Every time I go into a bookshop and I pick up an older looking book,
28:10
SPEAKER_01: I go,
28:10
SPEAKER_01: wow,
28:11
SPEAKER_01: this guy was fucking nuts.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: I love what he's doing.
28:14
SPEAKER_03: Right.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: And you do prefer the modern stuff, right?
28:19
SPEAKER_00: You like the modern era as opposed to the older?
28:24
Yeah,
28:25
like if you go back to the 1700s and stuff like that,
28:29
you're going to start to lose me.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate what they're doing.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I teach Shakespeare all the time.
28:36
And I'm routinely impressed by what I find in new plays of his
28:41
that I haven't quite
28:42
SPEAKER_01: read yet or anything,
28:43
SPEAKER_01: and I have to teach it.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot to be found in those older styles still,
28:50
SPEAKER_01: but I just don't think,
28:52
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
28:52
SPEAKER_01: you don't want to go mimicking those.
28:55
So if you're going to go try to find something that would be
28:58
more useful to you as
29:00
SPEAKER_01: a poet now,
29:01
SPEAKER_01: you would probably be looking at the 20th or 21st centuries.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: All right.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: How about 21st century?
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Who do you like?
29:07
SPEAKER_00: If, you know, if I was,
29:10
SPEAKER_00: one of your students,
29:11
SPEAKER_00: just a complete and total fucking noob,
29:13
SPEAKER_00: you know,
29:13
SPEAKER_00: I was like,
29:13
SPEAKER_00: Hey,
29:14
SPEAKER_00: I want to go into poetry,
29:14
SPEAKER_00: man.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, uh, who should I read?
29:16
SPEAKER_00: That's like new, you know?
29:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: You know,
29:20
SPEAKER_01: the thing is like,
29:22
SPEAKER_01: I've,
29:22
SPEAKER_01: well,
29:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't even,
29:23
I couldn't even tell you how many like contemporary poetry
29:25
collections I have
29:26
SPEAKER_01: around here.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: Like just looking on the fucking ground here.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, I've got, uh, my, my white mama, but yeah.
29:40
my white mama by mercedes ang terrible really really one of the
29:44
worst um i've ever
29:46
read um trauma head by lee crowd g gardner uh all these ones
29:53
like most of them i
29:54
buy them and i i really or the publishers and stuff used to
29:58
send me them in the
29:59
SPEAKER_01: mail
30:00
SPEAKER_00: Wait, wait, my white mama is actually spelled my YT mama, right?
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: That's fucking adorable.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: I hate you for even making me look that up, man.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, I obviously don't like these.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: Another Canadian.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: What the fuck is in that water up there with you guys, man?
30:24
SPEAKER_00: Or fucking wherever you guys are, you know?
30:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they took the fluoride out, too.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what's going on.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: You guys, fuck Canadians, man.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: You guys are diseased.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm wrong.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: We don't want you, man.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to fucking call Elon and Trump and be like, hey, man.
30:42
ixnay on that shit dude keep these crazy motherfuckers up there
30:46
is that how you
30:47
welcome me is that how you welcome me sir welcome hey close the
30:51
door behind you
30:52
motherfucker i roll in and you're gonna call elon musk on my
30:56
ass wow dude i just
30:57
SPEAKER_00: got here we're talking about amazing canadian poetry
31:02
An amazing poetry collection called My White Mama with white
31:06
being spelled as white
31:07
SPEAKER_00: tea by a Chinese Canadian.
31:12
And I'm seeing Jasper's profile picture,
31:14
whatever the bloody fuck that is,
31:16
which is fantastic.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: Holy crap.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: It's, you know, the whole Sneed meme, Chuck's feed and seed and all that.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: But he's clenching his ass cheeks around R.C.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: Walden's head.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: Well, hey, man.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: Nice to meet you.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: How's the podcast going?
31:37
SPEAKER_02: How are things?
31:38
SPEAKER_00: We're talking about poetry and shit.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: All right.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: So now that you're here, I actually saved the main thing.
31:48
So what we've been talking about,
31:49
a review for everybody that just hit whatever.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: Shut up.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, Jasper.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: Jasper's a poet here, right?
31:58
SPEAKER_00: And host scaring for sure, right?
32:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: We're staying on our host scaring arc.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: But what he's really here,
32:07
SPEAKER_00: first of all,
32:08
SPEAKER_00: he is one of the co-editors or took over for my son over there,
32:15
SPEAKER_00: over at Per Ube,
32:16
SPEAKER_00: right?
32:17
SPEAKER_00: Our guest from last week.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: He took over at their little publication for Noah.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: And it just came out, right?
32:26
SPEAKER_00: Did Ikelele just come out like yesterday or when did you put it?
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it just dropped.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, just dropped.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it just dropped.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: All right,
32:33
so let me kind of introduce Echolalia because I waited for
32:36
Fisto to show up because
32:37
SPEAKER_00: this is important,
32:37
SPEAKER_00: right?
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Echolalia is a collection of poetry.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: It is a journal of poetry, amazing poetry, right?
32:47
That's been published in other places,
32:49
you know,
32:50
respectable magazines,
32:51
right?
32:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: It's really good.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: It's fantastic, right?
32:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, tell us about it.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: Go ahead, Jasper.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: Tell us what the most important thing about Echolalia is.
33:04
yeah so uh fisto do you know anything about it very little um i
33:08
i just looked up
33:09
your your Substack and i looked at what um alexander provided
33:13
earlier about uh well
33:16
i don't want to ruin the surprise but i'm looking it over right
33:18
now going oh oh oh
33:21
SPEAKER_02: fantastic oh yes so please
33:25
SPEAKER_02: Bedazzle me, sir.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: Bedazzle me in all the ways that I shall be amazed.
33:32
So I'm thinking,
33:33
uh,
33:34
you know,
33:34
it's half poetry journal,
33:38
half expose,
33:40
I guess.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh,
33:41
SPEAKER_01: and it's a weird meta modern presentation where it's like mostly satire,
33:47
SPEAKER_01: but I am trying to actually be authentic about my message.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: But, uh,
33:53
SPEAKER_01: So for your listeners and stuff like that,
33:57
SPEAKER_01: I assumed multiple different personas,
34:01
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
34:02
because I had been getting published under my own name and all
34:06
that sort of stuff.
34:07
But I was noticing certain trends in the industry and I noticed
34:11
it would be way
34:12
SPEAKER_01: easier to get published as someone else,
34:16
SPEAKER_01: let's say.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, guys like Michael Derrick Hudson,
34:21
SPEAKER_01: They did that.
34:21
He got his infamous bees poem published in I can't remember
34:26
which magazine,
34:27
SPEAKER_01: but then they anthologized it as one of the best of the year.
34:30
But he did that with one,
34:31
you know,
34:32
and he was really just looking for clout,
34:34
I guess.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: But I figured I would take things in a slightly different direction.
34:38
I would actually prove a point instead of just getting
34:41
published for no reason
34:42
SPEAKER_01: other than to get published.
34:44
So,
34:44
yeah,
34:45
I took on the persona of Adel Nwankwo,
34:49
a Nigerian healthcare worker.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: With ADHD and all this other shit.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: BH Feinstein, the gay Jew.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: Claire Brooke Hawksmouth, the indigenous healer.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: Hawksmouth, the indigenous healer.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Real quick, I want to interrupt.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, no.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: If you're not familiar with Adele Nuwanko, right?
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Adele Nuwanko?
35:25
SPEAKER_00: Is that how you say it?
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Nuwanko.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Nuwanko.
35:28
Adele Nuwanko,
35:28
they,
35:29
them,
35:29
is a gender-fluid member of the Nigerian diaspora.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: They have an ongoing fascination with Shakespeare,
35:35
SPEAKER_00: Edward Devere,
35:36
SPEAKER_00: clearly,
35:36
SPEAKER_00: that their ADHD and OCD will not allow them to let go of.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: Their work has appeared in several journals,
35:42
SPEAKER_00: including The Bitchin' Kitch,
35:44
SPEAKER_00: Queerlings,
35:44
SPEAKER_00: and Meow Meow Pow Pow.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: A fantastic writer, Adele.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Pow Pow.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Meow Meow actually republished that one.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: I got it published elsewhere.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: They liked it so much they came up with graphics for it and shit.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, Adele was probably the most well-known.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: She got the most opportunities and she earned the most money, but...
36:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there are other ones, you know, Claire Hawk's mouth.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: And I you'll see in the journal as her like indigenous name.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: I just took like I think it was Iroquois or something like that.
36:19
I used different indigenous languages for every single fake
36:23
indigenous word she uses.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: But it her name translates to I'm a fraud.
36:30
And I think the other part Sky Child I put it was like not a
36:35
real person or some shit.
36:37
uh so like uh eleanor navia may pain i'm getting like i'm
36:44
getting such like biggest
36:45
dickest vibes right now this is great yeah i reread everything
36:50
to this earlier
36:51
today because i didn't have work today and i was like dying of
36:53
laughter like like
36:56
SPEAKER_00: streaming down my face man it was so good and the thing is
37:00
it's good and it's and keep keep going i'll have a million
37:04
questions keep going
37:05
yeah so uh you know there were other personas eleanor and avia
37:09
may payne she
37:10
published one of your favorites there um the baba poem the baba
37:15
poem is fantastic
37:16
SPEAKER_00: yeah her one
37:21
Just for listeners at home,
37:23
the Baba Poem is basically a bunch of mumbo jumbo Chinese letters.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: And it's basically in between this wall of Chinese logograms,
37:34
SPEAKER_00: whatever the fuck they're called,
37:35
SPEAKER_00: right?
37:37
I'm pulling it up right now because I want to share this
37:39
because it's so good.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: So it's a wall of...
37:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, Chinese text, right?
37:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's basically, you know, Chinese, Chinese, Chinese, blah, blah.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: Jinjiao village, a poor fisherman's son.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: Chinese, Chinese, 1957, immigrated.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: 70 cents, pocket, San Francisco, Chinatown.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: Junk, junk, junk, junk, junk.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: Labor, hard work, bad white people.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: Discrimination.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: And then it ends with perseverance.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: Either way,
38:11
it's basically just a wall of Chinese characters and English
38:16
words saying fighting prejudice.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, no.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: It's so fucking good, right?
38:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Baba.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: Understanding change.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: Following your example.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: Blah, blah, blah.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: I love you.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: Blah, blah, blah.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: I can't believe it.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Somebody published this, right?
38:48
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not even properly formatted Chinese though, right?
38:57
SPEAKER_00: Because it's left to right and Chinese is written up and down, right?
39:00
SPEAKER_00: So whoever...
39:03
You basically submitted,
39:05
like,
39:05
the kanji tattoo of a version of a poem,
39:10
basically,
39:11
you know?
39:11
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: That's fucking beautiful.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and, like, I mean, I see baba poems all the time in particular.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: Like,
39:21
SPEAKER_01: every single poetry journal I buy or whatever it is,
39:25
SPEAKER_01: there's always some fucking baba poem.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: And so I put... Fucking baba.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:33
SPEAKER_02: That's what we call one of our cats.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: That makes it really, like, super extra funny to me.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
39:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
39:38
SPEAKER_01: Baba is a great word and all,
39:40
SPEAKER_01: and,
39:40
SPEAKER_01: like,
39:40
SPEAKER_01: it's a fun name,
39:41
SPEAKER_01: but I just see it everywhere.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: So I put the tag,
39:45
SPEAKER_01: like,
39:45
SPEAKER_01: after Yooksman Tiao's Baba and Clarence Zhang's Baba and F.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: Wu Grenois's Baba and all this,
39:52
SPEAKER_01: because they all do these.
39:54
um but uh yeah as i was saying before we got on there i
39:59
actually hid text in there
40:01
like it is against their policies to publish this because all
40:05
these journals they
40:05
would um have on their landing pages like oh we support this or
40:10
that group we um
40:12
actively screen for you know this type of identity or this type
40:16
of experience i'm
40:16
SPEAKER_01: like okay
40:18
SPEAKER_01: You're going to get it.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: But they would also say, like, we don't publish any sort of racism.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: We don't publish any sort of prejudiced content.
40:26
So I'm like,
40:27
OK,
40:27
well,
40:28
I'm going to see if you actually check your shit because they don't.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: They didn't screen it at all.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: I hid like I hate you, white man, like die, die, die.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: Buy my chapbook and all that stuff in the background.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: So it's all there in print.
40:42
They just they just didn't want to check it because they didn't
40:45
want to be insensitive to me.
40:46
right that's fucking hilarious but eco eco lalia actually has a
40:51
fantastic um you
40:53
know uh a submission like a statement right that says that eco
41:00
respectfully
41:00
operates on unceded ancestral treaty 13 and william treaties
41:04
recognized land of the
41:06
SPEAKER_00: Anishabeg and Chippewa,
41:07
SPEAKER_00: like potato chip,
41:08
SPEAKER_00: and Hudenosane and Wendat and Misogua of the Credit Peoples,
41:12
SPEAKER_00: not banking related,
41:14
SPEAKER_00: as editorial team,
41:15
SPEAKER_00: publication,
41:15
SPEAKER_00: and institution,
41:16
we deeply honored the displaced people of these tribes and
41:19
wished them all the best.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: Moi, we love you.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: With Finding New Land.
41:24
You got the introduction to the,
41:27
you know,
41:29
the collection is so fucking funny,
41:31
man.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: Because it's like,
41:34
SPEAKER_00: You've got like,
41:34
SPEAKER_00: additionally,
41:35
SPEAKER_00: our team offers support to BIPOC,
41:36
SPEAKER_00: marginalized,
41:37
SPEAKER_00: incarcerated,
41:38
SPEAKER_00: handicapped,
41:39
SPEAKER_00: novice writers,
41:40
SPEAKER_00: or dudes who are feeling a little poopy.
41:45
Yeah,
41:45
I'm looking through some of these Ecolio review things,
41:49
and this is just...
41:51
straight vandalism now look it's it's funny that you're talking
41:56
about this because
41:57
like i i don't know i don't know if alex mentioned but i'm a
42:00
social studies teacher
42:01
and i'm desperately desperately trying to get my kids to uh
42:05
think and really look
42:07
at language and like literacy has been such a huge focus this
42:12
year and earlier
42:14
SPEAKER_02: today i was i was watching some chatter between you know like
42:20
One of the commenters on Substack,
42:22
Peebo,
42:22
he was talking with some AI-loving LLM guy.
42:25
SPEAKER_02: And it's just – it's amazing because there's no understanding.
42:28
SPEAKER_02: There's just no understanding.
42:29
SPEAKER_02: And like you see people think, right?
42:32
SPEAKER_02: I see kids think.
42:33
SPEAKER_02: I see them think all day.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: I can watch it.
42:35
I can see the sparks go off in their heads when they have
42:38
thoughts and they
42:39
SPEAKER_02: legitimately think things.
42:41
SPEAKER_02: And with the LLM stuff and people talk about that and it's like –
42:46
there's nothing up there you're just spitting words out of your
42:49
face and like what
42:50
you're doing here is like it's the poetry tactical nuclear spec
42:56
ops strike to be
42:57
like yeah guys this is all fake this is all fake it's all fake
43:01
here it is just
43:02
spelling it out and man are any of these places still around
43:08
once usa you know
43:09
SPEAKER_02: dried up because good lord
43:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: I love this.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: And like, you know, as an educator, too, I mean, I feel the same way.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: And again, I won't talk to myself.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, like I teach different groups.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: I'll teach socials sometimes, but generally it's English.
43:27
But yeah,
43:28
like I really enjoy seeing students clue in and like just get a grip.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: And it's hard to get them there, but I keep trying.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: I want to get out of the industry, I think, eventually.
43:40
But I've really been trying to shake people up a little bit
43:45
just so that it's to their benefit.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to impose upon them any particular ideology.
43:51
I just really want them to break free from whatever they've
43:54
been mired in.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: And this book is essentially that for the poetry world.
43:59
yeah i'm at the emoji one right now holy crap yeah that one
44:03
this is this is aids
44:05
bro this is aids into my eyeballs i've got a funny thing uh
44:12
story though about the
44:13
SPEAKER_01: uh the first one so the shakespeare's cum slut one
44:17
SPEAKER_00: Cherry Blossom bussin' right here.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: Hold on, hold on.
44:21
SPEAKER_02: I gotta go back up.
44:21
SPEAKER_02: I gotta scroll back up.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: Shakespeare's comes from... Yeah, so... Alright, alright, I'll shut up.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: This one...
44:32
SPEAKER_01: I wish I could read this out to your listeners.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: It wouldn't work without the emojis littered throughout.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so this I sent to Jake Magazine, and they kind of...
44:48
are like champions of the indie world and like not giving a
44:52
fuck about guidelines
44:54
and stuff but they also hate racism and like a bunch of other
44:57
things and i don't
44:58
know they're just like another one of these really confused
45:00
like alt lit whatever
45:02
SPEAKER_01: type mags
45:03
So I sent this and the one that's written in Simlish to them,
45:08
and they took both under BH Fine.
45:12
But they got back to me after the fact,
45:16
like,
45:16
I don't know,
45:17
many months later.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: They're like,
45:18
SPEAKER_01: hey,
45:19
we just want to let you know we've nominated this for best of
45:22
the net this year.
45:23
like we we took all of our editors and some of our like trusted
45:29
readers and we sent
45:30
them like all the our nominations it's like a pool and then we
45:33
had them narrow it
45:34
down and yours was the clear favorite so we're nominating you
45:38
as the best of the
45:39
year as well as like you know for best of the net for all of
45:44
indie poetry like
45:45
SPEAKER_00: you've got to be fucking kidding me well that's awesome you know
45:50
like you're a super spreader right you're fucking yeah all over
45:54
here basically you
45:56
know you're this is this collection it's up there with uh
46:01
what's her name fucking
46:04
what's her name honor levy right it's oh yeah right but all all
46:10
jokes aside right
46:11
SPEAKER_00: like
46:12
So ultimately what you did here – first of all,
46:17
it's actually fucking fantastic,
46:18
right?
46:19
It's hilarious because it's like super meta-modern and like
46:23
meta but at the same
46:24
SPEAKER_00: time it's – I don't think you take each work individually.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: You have to take it as a whole –
46:32
SPEAKER_00: But it's serious shit, right?
46:34
SPEAKER_00: It's serious shit because like I said earlier before Fisto got on,
46:38
SPEAKER_00: I think poetry is the Ur literature,
46:42
SPEAKER_00: right?
46:42
SPEAKER_00: It's the building block of our entire Western literary tradition.
46:47
And it's become taken over by fucking,
46:50
frankly,
46:51
just fucking clowns,
46:53
all right?
46:54
SPEAKER_00: The publishing world,
46:55
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:56
SPEAKER_00: poetry as the vanguard of clown world when it comes to,
46:59
SPEAKER_00: you know.
47:00
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, literary fiction is just complete and utter fucking trash.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: And even, like, mainstream genre fiction is now completely fucking trash.
47:10
It's,
47:10
like,
47:11
worse than the worst shit that was at an airport,
47:13
like,
47:13
20 years ago.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: And these people are not...
47:17
SPEAKER_00: You got to make fun of them, man.
47:19
SPEAKER_00: Fuck them.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
47:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: Because their outlook on the world is a fucking joke.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: They're all a bunch of fucking hypocrites and retards, frankly.
47:27
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
47:28
SPEAKER_00: And doing this kind of shit proves that they're fucking retards.
47:33
SPEAKER_00: And all that shit is fake and gay.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: They don't really care about any of the...
47:41
one-legged nigerian you know semi-literate retard you know they
47:45
don't care about
47:46
that they want you to think that they care about that so they
47:49
can bang that 19 year
47:50
old girl at the fucking party you know what i mean that that's
47:53
really what it's
47:54
about right at least in my opinion you know um so shit like
47:59
this is exactly what we
48:02
SPEAKER_00: need you know and then it's fucking funny dude you
48:05
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
48:06
SPEAKER_00: It's hilarious, right?
48:08
SPEAKER_00: Like this would not work if you weren't funny.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, you're obviously a good poet, right?
48:15
SPEAKER_00: Like you can write –
48:16
SPEAKER_00: Great.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: Who can put down words like ass,
48:19
SPEAKER_00: ass,
48:19
SPEAKER_00: money,
48:19
SPEAKER_00: Mercedes,
48:20
SPEAKER_00: steel guard,
48:20
SPEAKER_00: trigger,
48:21
SPEAKER_00: tape,
48:21
SPEAKER_00: cum,
48:21
SPEAKER_00: text,
48:22
SPEAKER_00: nudes,
48:23
SPEAKER_00: avion bottle,
48:23
SPEAKER_00: cockballs,
48:24
SPEAKER_00: cockballs,
48:24
SPEAKER_00: g-strings,
48:25
SPEAKER_00: stare,
48:25
SPEAKER_00: drink,
48:26
SPEAKER_00: drunk.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: I can't believe somebody published that, dude.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they were enthusiastic about it too.
48:32
Flags fucking fucking philosophy,
48:34
war crypto,
48:35
Confucius,
48:35
Cicero,
48:36
Legionnaire simulation,
48:37
rap.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
48:41
SPEAKER_00: It's great, right?
48:43
SPEAKER_00: And it does say a lot about the literary establishment.
48:48
And poetry and poetry magazines and these independent poetry
48:51
magazines are really
48:52
SPEAKER_00: the vanguard of our culture.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, they're taking us off a cliff, man.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I want to share one here that I particularly enjoy.
49:00
SPEAKER_02: Trolls.
49:02
There was once a chick from the CIA who shut toxic trolls down
49:05
every day.
49:06
SPEAKER_02: So her, they tried to dox, but they, she just outfoxed.
49:10
SPEAKER_02: And now they're in jail where they ought to stay.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: This is an Instagram poem right there, right?
49:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's like just a trash limerick.
49:20
SPEAKER_01: And like...
49:21
for those i would i would make sure to get it like mostly right
49:24
but i would
49:24
strategically fuck up some of the meter or like i would just
49:28
kind of like just make
49:30
it so that it was bad but still somewhat clever and so that one
49:34
yeah that is the
49:36
ricky i mean the one right behind it is it has a line meter is
49:39
dead i get no head
49:40
SPEAKER_00: so that's
49:43
metropolis man there was once a man from metropolis who wanted
49:45
to climb climb up on
49:47
top of this when it got to fucking and he wanted sucking i told
49:50
him that i was a
49:52
SPEAKER_02: zoo yeah zoo off i guess or whatever sorry which is just uh
50:06
i don't think i've ever gotten on this podcast and gone from
50:08
zero to 60 so god damn
50:10
holy shit that one that one was featured in alice says go fuck
50:16
yourself uh what a
50:19
what a man what a magazine name that one um i can't remember
50:23
which press they're a
50:24
SPEAKER_01: part of but yeah that was alice go fuck says go fuck yourself
50:27
SPEAKER_02: This is great.
50:29
This whole thing reminds me of that classic Calvin and Hobbes
50:32
comic where Calvin
50:33
SPEAKER_02: gives Hobbes this,
50:35
SPEAKER_02: this is my artist statement,
50:37
SPEAKER_02: and Hobbes looks at him and goes,
50:38
SPEAKER_02: you misspelled Welton Chung,
50:39
SPEAKER_02: or however the hell you say that.
50:44
SPEAKER_02: A true artist statement says more about the art than the art ever does.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: Makes it an incomprehensible brick of meaninglessness.
50:53
SPEAKER_02: Right.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, so you commit to the bit here, you know, the whole journal.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: You've got, like, submission forms.
51:01
SPEAKER_00: You've got ads and stuff towards the back.
51:03
SPEAKER_00: You've got, like, Amazon royalty statements.
51:07
SPEAKER_00: Just everything,
51:08
SPEAKER_00: you know,
51:08
SPEAKER_00: footnotes and just the whole thing is well – I mean,
51:12
SPEAKER_00: it's probably actually –
51:14
better put together than you know most poetry magazines are in
51:18
real life um so
51:20
where can listeners get this a copy of this yeah so like um i
51:27
had to go with like
51:28
special dimensions for it which was really annoying because i
51:31
had to make it look
51:32
like a literary journal as well and there's there's so many
51:36
different forms and
51:36
there's so much different content like it was just the biggest
51:39
ball lake in the
51:40
SPEAKER_01: world to format
51:41
uh no one i basically did it ourselves um you can get it mostly
51:47
on amazon at this
51:47
point um unfortunately i hate bezos and the boys but um yeah
51:53
this one is available
51:54
on amazon right now and then um i'm gonna look to put it on a
51:58
few different uh
52:01
platforms coming up here i just because the dimensions are so
52:04
weird i don't really
52:05
know who's gonna take it like you can't put it on ingram or
52:08
anything like that but
52:10
SPEAKER_01: We'll find some more spots.
52:11
I'm going to try to probably sell it through the press's
52:13
website coming up soon too
52:14
SPEAKER_01: for like a digital copy.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: Very cheaper.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: I'll make sure I link it, right?
52:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking at the trans committal review TCR.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: Men are actually shit.
52:23
The depopulation issue winter 2020 X send up the three of your
52:27
best poems on why
52:28
people men specifically are absolutely unequivocally
52:31
scientifically the most foul,
52:33
disgusting pieces of shit to ever inhabit the fucking gorgeous
52:36
blue and green orb
52:37
SPEAKER_00: we call home and should probably be cold.
52:41
SPEAKER_00: For more info, hit us up at tclitgmail.com.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Bestie.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: But,
52:48
SPEAKER_00: you know,
52:50
SPEAKER_00: Pisto,
52:50
did you ever used to watch fucking Married with Children when
52:53
you were younger?
52:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:54
Do you remember that when they turned the strip club into a
52:56
poetry fucking reading?
52:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
52:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you got to watch that one again I was talking about earlier.
53:03
SPEAKER_02: Should I kill myself or buy another Funko Pop?
53:07
SPEAKER_02: So what inspired us?
53:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
53:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm just looking through it.
53:13
SPEAKER_02: It's just
53:14
things are popping out at me as i go and it's just oh god yeah
53:19
like you know ubuntu
53:21
kenda's new neo-marxist theory broadly speaking would encourage
53:25
as a mononym
53:25
explores its mere seminal treaty more equal so hold on i want
53:30
to try something i
53:30
want to try something i'm being dead ass about this can you so
53:34
like will you be
53:35
SPEAKER_02: able to buy a physical copy of this
53:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
53:39
SPEAKER_01: I think the physical copy is the best form to read it in.
53:41
SPEAKER_01: So right now, the physical is available.
53:43
SPEAKER_01: I have an e-book thing, but whatever.
53:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to see about this getting officially approved for my classroom.
53:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh, gosh.
53:51
Listen,
53:52
I just recently got a bunch of books approved,
53:54
and a couple of them.
53:55
SPEAKER_02: One of them was...
53:57
industrial society and its consequences oh shit okay and like
54:01
she knew what it was
54:01
like she's like this is good stuff like just make sure they're
54:04
you know the correct
54:04
maturity level I could absolutely fucking spin this to be like
54:09
just to have it out
54:10
there because one kid will look at it and I'll be like that's
54:12
satire of the poetry
54:13
SPEAKER_02: world and they'll look at it and just be like holy smokes this is cool
54:17
SPEAKER_02: Like that's literally the only reason I would have it.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: Like it's not in there to like actually cause a problem,
54:21
but legitimately this is one of the reasons I love this podcast
54:24
because I get
54:24
SPEAKER_02: exposed to stuff like this.
54:26
SPEAKER_02: And even if it isn't this specifically,
54:28
SPEAKER_02: but anything that you can recommend,
54:29
SPEAKER_02: man,
54:30
SPEAKER_02: that would,
54:30
cause I have a couple of students in my class who legitimately
54:34
there there's poets
54:35
SPEAKER_02: down in there somewhere.
54:36
SPEAKER_02: I can see it.
54:37
SPEAKER_02: Right.
54:38
SPEAKER_02: I've read some of their shit and I'm like,
54:40
it's right in there yeah having them see what the real big boys
54:45
are doing and like
54:45
check out this wild shit man like that's oh i want it i want it
54:51
i'm gonna get what
54:52
i want this is this is just like you know basically punk rock
54:55
shit right yes
54:56
exactly it's making fun of you know the 100 i mean punk rock
55:01
punk is dead i'm sorry
55:02
guys if you you know it died when somebody said punk rockers
55:07
don't vote republican
55:08
SPEAKER_00: or whatever i saw that on fucking you know
55:10
actually you know who i saw post that like that goths can't be
55:14
goths can't be right
55:15
wing right do you remember that little fucker we were beefing
55:19
with that that retard
55:20
that we what was that guy's name uh that's in this mongolia or
55:26
whatever yeah no no
55:27
no not that guy that fat retard from st louis who's like oh
55:31
he's my wife or
55:32
whatever and i was like creeping on their instagram and i
55:34
clicked on his wife's
55:35
SPEAKER_00: twitter and she had this like her whole thing was like uh
55:41
goths aren't fascist or something like that i'm like uh i'm
55:45
gonna talk about joy
55:47
division look punk punk rock isn't dead you know what no no
55:50
punks don't vote
55:51
republican punks don't vote democrat punk rock isn't dead punk
55:54
rock dies for the
55:55
emperor all right no punk rock just doesn't that's where we're
55:58
at that's where
55:58
SPEAKER_02: we're at punk rock dies for the empire listen man have you have
56:02
I just – these people,
56:03
I fucking hate them with the flames of 5,000 supernovas basically.
56:06
SPEAKER_00: These people have turned all art and culture into this just –
56:19
fucking milk toast nerdy like loser thing you know it's like
56:24
phoebe from friends
56:26
you know singing smelly cat basically that's it's just chunga's
56:30
shit you know like
56:32
SPEAKER_00: i can't you know
56:35
SPEAKER_02: I bet Sunday Gunday, a buyer's guide.
56:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, actually, this is a classic.
56:40
SPEAKER_02: 22 rifles are among the world's most... Wait, what?
56:43
SPEAKER_02: Like, they never... Oh, man.
56:45
SPEAKER_02: Cult government 45 ACP.
56:49
SPEAKER_02: What?
56:51
SPEAKER_02: Oh, there's double barrel coach shotgun.
56:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:56
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I would love for you to have that in your classroom.
56:59
SPEAKER_01: That would actually be an honor.
57:00
This side-by-side firearm is straight out of Cowboys and
57:04
Indians for $1,776.
57:04
SPEAKER_02: You son of a bitch.
57:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:10
SPEAKER_00: I missed that.
57:12
SPEAKER_02: I missed that.
57:14
SPEAKER_02: I missed the $1,770.
57:16
SPEAKER_02: $1,666.
57:16
SPEAKER_02: All the prices have jokes.
57:19
SPEAKER_01: All the recommended or also bought with type things are jokes too.
57:26
SPEAKER_02: My Little Pony Butt Plug, Anime Body Pillow, 48 Laws of Power by Grant.
57:32
SPEAKER_00: My wife liked the cat emancipation poet poem.
57:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:38
SPEAKER_00: I looked over that one a little bit.
57:41
SPEAKER_02: This is the thing, you know, just to like zoom out real fast.
57:45
I've been thinking long and fucking hard about where we are in
57:50
history and the
57:51
breath that the world spirit may or may not be taking over the
57:55
next 20 years.
57:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't mean to get super heavy all of a sudden, but yeah,
57:59
SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm talking to my kids and we're talking about social studies.
58:01
SPEAKER_02: We're talking about what's going on in the world.
58:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, guys, don't be afraid.
58:04
SPEAKER_02: There's some shit coming down the pipe, but do not be afraid of it.
58:07
SPEAKER_02: All right.
58:07
You're not going to run into anything that humans haven't dealt
58:09
with in the past.
58:10
SPEAKER_02: OK.
58:11
And stuff like this and the ability to think and the ability to
58:15
kind of break,
58:16
SPEAKER_02: like you said,
58:17
SPEAKER_02: break through,
58:17
SPEAKER_02: break out,
58:19
get out of the get out of the slop that we've been caught in
58:22
for the past years.
58:24
SPEAKER_02: 80 years.
58:25
SPEAKER_02: It's a survival strategy.
58:27
SPEAKER_02: And for us, you know, Jasper, how roughly how old are you?
58:33
SPEAKER_01: I'll say I'm in my 20s.
58:33
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
58:34
SPEAKER_02: And roughly what part of the world do you live in?
58:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm over in Canada.
58:38
SPEAKER_02: Canada.
58:39
SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
58:40
SPEAKER_02: So you're in North America like we are, right?
58:42
SPEAKER_02: All right.
58:42
SPEAKER_02: Good.
58:43
SPEAKER_02: Good enough.
58:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm down in Florida.
58:46
SPEAKER_02: Alexandria is in some swamp in South Carolina or whatever the fuck.
58:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't even know.
58:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm in a gentleman's swamp, okay?
58:53
SPEAKER_00: A gentleman's swamp.
58:54
SPEAKER_02: A gentle swamp.
58:55
SPEAKER_00: It is a gentle, low-country swamp for a southern gentleman.
59:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
59:01
but we need to we need to be about like the dead end of Selden
59:05
where we're looking
59:05
SPEAKER_02: a thousand years in the future and thinking,
59:08
SPEAKER_02: what the fuck do we need to leave behind?
59:11
SPEAKER_02: Because gods know what's going to make it.
59:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, like, I really think that's kind of where we're at.
59:15
SPEAKER_02: That's really where we're at.
59:16
SPEAKER_02: And that's not terrifying.
59:19
SPEAKER_02: It's just it's this.
59:20
SPEAKER_02: The recognition of how big the job is, how little time we have.
59:26
SPEAKER_02: And it's just let's fucking go.
59:28
SPEAKER_02: We do not have time to screw around and be like, should we could do this?
59:31
SPEAKER_02: No,
59:31
SPEAKER_02: no,
59:32
just you can just do things because God's know how long you're
59:34
going to be able to
59:35
SPEAKER_02: do that.
59:35
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
59:38
SPEAKER_00: I agree with you.
59:38
That's why I said this project you did,
59:43
Jasper,
59:43
for all its hilarious comedy.
59:46
SPEAKER_00: God damn it, we need funny shit.
59:50
SPEAKER_00: The last few years, we've been lacking comedy completely.
59:54
Not counting internet shitposting,
59:56
which has been some of the funniest shit I've seen in years.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_00: Just trolling motherfuckers like you did.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_00: It's just
1:00:05
it's what it's about dude man and it's it's hilarious because
1:00:09
these people like
1:00:10
really really like like the like the whiff of their own farts
1:00:14
man you know i mean
1:00:15
and they take this shit so seriously and i can just i can just
1:00:19
see i can i can see
1:00:20
these like uh obese nick like thick glasses fucking vancouver
1:00:27
in like poetry women
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: just raging you know um oh yeah yeah but
1:00:33
SPEAKER_00: fucking raging with their cat fucking glasses,
1:00:37
SPEAKER_00: indiscriminated,
1:00:38
SPEAKER_00: some sort of half-white,
1:00:40
SPEAKER_00: half-Asian race thing going on,
1:00:41
SPEAKER_00: just raging at the fucking gray sky.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_00: And it's just – we can't take this shit seriously anymore.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_00: These people just –
1:00:51
SPEAKER_00: So much of the ills of our cultural mainstream is,
1:00:57
SPEAKER_00: like I said last episode,
1:00:58
SPEAKER_00: is people that have never taken a punch.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_00: And it's actually people that have never been told to shut the fuck up.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_00: Just shut the fuck up.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: Nobody gives a fuck.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_00: Shut up.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_02: Until LLMs start telling people to shut the fuck up, they're useless.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_00: That's really what it is.
1:01:20
I do want to mention that if I ever buy an iguana,
1:01:24
I'm going to name it David Lizinch.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_00: What?
1:01:30
SPEAKER_02: David Lizinch?
1:01:31
SPEAKER_02: Is there something in there?
1:01:33
SPEAKER_02: Oh, gee, gee.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_00: There's an iguana named David Lizinch, you know?
1:01:36
SPEAKER_00: And then tonight, Meowca Max.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_00: That's what they named the cat?
1:01:43
SPEAKER_00: Did that get published?
1:01:44
SPEAKER_00: Did somebody publish a poem?
1:01:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_03: They all got published.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_00: Somebody... Okay, so there's a poem by Z.L.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_00: Williams, Decolonizing a Stray.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just going to read parts of it, okay?
1:01:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:01:55
SPEAKER_00: And it says, I'll spare you the Iams unseasoned chicken pellets.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_00: Tonight, Meowcom X, you eat beef, suya, and lentils with me.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_00: Tonight, we feast as the free.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_00: It's so bad.
1:02:07
SPEAKER_00: It's so bad.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_02: The bitch in Kitch took that one.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_02: What about this one?
1:02:15
And everywhere around us undoing the sensate unbecoming of a
1:02:20
white hand of a white
1:02:21
SPEAKER_02: phallus stepped on by J-E-L-Q Breckner,
1:02:25
SPEAKER_02: fetal torpedo antiquarian in shit.
1:02:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Jelk there.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_01: I didn't send that one out.
1:02:34
There's a prefatory sort of,
1:02:36
because they'll always do this in poetry journals.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_01: They'll have a quote at the beginning to set the scene.
1:02:43
That quote at the beginning from Strawberry Akhmadinejad,
1:02:46
I didn't try to send that out,
1:02:48
and the
1:02:48
the jelk brenner one i didn't try to send out um i could have
1:02:51
written full poems
1:02:52
for that but i'm like i've already nuked this like four times
1:02:56
over everything in
1:02:57
the issue has been published in some capacity i'm like i can
1:02:59
probably rest but yeah
1:03:01
yeah yeah so what inspired you to do this i mean where were you
1:03:07
like man let me do
1:03:08
this shit let me like let me put this together like what what
1:03:11
triggered it
1:03:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
1:03:13
SPEAKER_01: so to Fisto's point,
1:03:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
1:03:15
SPEAKER_01: I was trying to look ahead,
1:03:16
SPEAKER_01: maybe because I've been working with kids here for,
1:03:20
SPEAKER_01: like,
1:03:20
SPEAKER_01: and I'll go all the way up to university students,
1:03:23
SPEAKER_01: but for,
1:03:25
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:03:27
SPEAKER_01: years,
1:03:28
SPEAKER_01: let's say.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_01: And obviously,
1:03:30
I've been keeping tabs on the broader cultural movements and
1:03:33
stuff like that,
1:03:34
SPEAKER_01: political developments,
1:03:35
SPEAKER_01: all that kind of shit.
1:03:36
um and i was trying to predict where poetry was headed if we
1:03:42
just kept on down this
1:03:44
path yes and just with the sheer amount of saturation and the
1:03:50
sheer sort of
1:03:50
indifference the public is showing to it i'm like well really
1:03:54
it's just going to be
1:03:54
SPEAKER_01: instagram poetry and celebrity poetry books going forward and like a a
1:04:00
SPEAKER_01: an ever shrinking enclave of quote unquote,
1:04:03
SPEAKER_01: serious poets that just,
1:04:05
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
1:04:05
end up forming like a human centipede type thing where they
1:04:09
sniff their own farts
1:04:10
SPEAKER_01: the whole time.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_01: So I, I,
1:04:15
SPEAKER_01: And I'd been working as an editor at a particular literary magazine,
1:04:19
SPEAKER_01: and I'd just seen all of this firsthand.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_01: And I'd learned about how the industry had worked behind the scenes.
1:04:25
I'd started sort of getting invited to bigger types of poetry
1:04:32
gatherings and
1:04:33
SPEAKER_01: literary gatherings.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_01: And I started getting in with publishers.
1:04:36
So I just kept like I got further and further entrenched in the
1:04:40
industry itself.
1:04:43
But I saw how fucking just ridiculously it was being run and
1:04:48
what was getting
1:04:49
SPEAKER_01: promoted over other content and what the kind of,
1:04:53
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
1:04:53
SPEAKER_01: cultural effect of all of that was.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_01: And I just found it to be profoundly negative,
1:05:01
SPEAKER_01: because if you do love poetry,
1:05:04
SPEAKER_01: but you also just want to see your fellow man or woman live well,
1:05:08
SPEAKER_01: this wasn't helping with that at all.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_01: In fact, it was making things worse just across the board.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_01: It was just kind of giving into a sort of defeatism approach.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_01: kind of victimization complex, all this kind of stuff.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_01: It was really hurting people.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_01: In fact,
1:05:24
SPEAKER_01: every time I went to poetry groups and shit,
1:05:26
SPEAKER_01: everyone seemed fucking miserable,
1:05:29
SPEAKER_01: whether they were good or not at what they were doing.
1:05:32
So my main inspiration was really just what kind of cultural
1:05:38
influence can I have as a poet?
1:05:41
SPEAKER_01: Can I help people live better?
1:05:44
SPEAKER_01: And I try to do that with every project.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_01: whether it's a novel or whatever.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, ultimately, I want people to live better lives.
1:05:53
SPEAKER_01: I want them to live more informed lives,
1:05:55
SPEAKER_01: and I want them to be able to laugh at themselves every now and again.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_01: But I guess...
1:06:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it just kind of started.
1:06:03
I saw how easy it was to get published if you had a particular
1:06:08
type of identity.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_01: And I learned about the Earn Malley hoax and all of that.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you know what?
1:06:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm good enough to do that.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_01: I think I can pull that off.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_01: It was James McCauley and Harold Stewart.
1:06:19
SPEAKER_01: I always mess up his name.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, they were a team of two.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, I can do it as a one man show.
1:06:25
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of the same thing.
1:06:27
SPEAKER_00: That's freaking hilarious, man.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_00: And everything you said is on point.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_00: And you're right.
1:06:34
There is a misery in a lot of stuff of 21st century kind of
1:06:41
academic artwork.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's just so miserable, so serious, so...
1:06:49
lifeless or in a way I guess performative you know poser-ish if
1:06:56
you really want to
1:06:57
go there right where it's just that art should be you know
1:07:06
there's been a lot of
1:07:07
articles lately and a lot of people commenting about like you
1:07:10
know there's no white
1:07:11
men allowed in publishing right that's something I think I
1:07:15
wrote an article on
1:07:16
SPEAKER_00: Substack two years ago where I was like you know
1:07:19
SPEAKER_00: It's not just white men that are not allowed.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_00: It's all men.
1:07:21
You walk into Barnes & Noble,
1:07:22
which is our only bookstore here in the United States that's big.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_00: And you can look at all the literature and the new releases shelves,
1:07:34
and there's nothing written by any dude that's under 50 and
1:07:38
hasn't been published.
1:07:40
Like,
1:07:40
you know,
1:07:41
like a leftover,
1:07:42
like Brett Easton Ellis or something like that,
1:07:43
you know?
1:07:44
Or,
1:07:44
you know,
1:07:45
Stephen fucking King or whatever other airport fiction,
1:07:49
right?
1:07:50
SPEAKER_00: But there's nobody under 30.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_00: There's nobody under 40, really.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't think you can find anybody under 45.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_00: And then if there is one, it's like,
1:07:56
completely gross like that one guy uh that's like dating uma
1:08:00
thurman or whatever
1:08:00
you know it's like some nepo fucking dude you know yeah and uh
1:08:06
i i actually had a
1:08:08
free copy of one of his books i started reading it and i was
1:08:11
like this is such
1:08:11
trash i stopped after like the first two pages you know yeah
1:08:15
but you don't it's
1:08:16
boring you know there's no life to it it's so performative
1:08:19
there's no there's no it
1:08:21
SPEAKER_00: doesn't capture it and you've shut down a
1:08:24
SPEAKER_00: the publishing industry,
1:08:25
the mainstream publishing industry has shut down an entire
1:08:29
generation of voices.
1:08:32
SPEAKER_00: They have committed the biggest,
1:08:34
SPEAKER_00: the same exact crime that they accuse those old white dudes of doing.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_00: And they've shut down a
1:08:40
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:08:40
SPEAKER_00: the majority of voices of an entire,
1:08:43
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:08:44
SPEAKER_00: really two generations,
1:08:45
SPEAKER_00: because I'm going to include millennials and Gen Zers,
1:08:48
SPEAKER_00: you know?
1:08:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a, it's a cultural crime, right?
1:08:54
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know,
1:08:55
the older guys don't really speak for us right uh you know the
1:08:59
the 80s fiction that
1:09:01
stuff belongs to those guys you know your uh you know what do
1:09:05
you call like white
1:09:06
noise and stuff right it's it's great but it's not ours you
1:09:10
know uh i guess the
1:09:13
SPEAKER_00: maybe chuck palahouik or whatever can be more more my generation
1:09:18
SPEAKER_00: But even then, he's a Gen Xer, not a millennial.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_00: And there's just nothing.
1:09:24
I mean,
1:09:24
you look at the millennials and Gen Z writers,
1:09:27
and who do you have?
1:09:29
SPEAKER_00: Honor Levy?
1:09:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
1:09:32
SPEAKER_01: and I mean,
1:09:33
SPEAKER_01: Honor Levy even,
1:09:34
SPEAKER_01: because she posts on Lit and stuff like that,
1:09:37
SPEAKER_01: she's essentially a Nepo baby as well,
1:09:39
SPEAKER_01: although her stuff is funny.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
1:09:41
SPEAKER_01: even those guys,
1:09:42
SPEAKER_01: the Dime Square movement and stuff like that,
1:09:44
SPEAKER_01: they don't really go far enough.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:09:46
they they're like faux conservative voices and they always just
1:09:50
like pussy out when
1:09:51
it comes to you know actual real let's say life-changing topics
1:09:57
or things that you
1:09:57
would want to clue people into they just kind of like skirt
1:10:01
around that and then go
1:10:02
back to talking about fox news versus cnn or some shit right i
1:10:07
actually read hunter
1:10:08
SPEAKER_00: levy's book um
1:10:11
SPEAKER_00: I was listening to Red Scare, which I like.
1:10:14
SPEAKER_00: Everybody gives me shit for liking Red Scare, but I like Red Scare.
1:10:18
SPEAKER_00: Listen, okay?
1:10:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm Eastern European.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_00: I got to have Slav fucking love to those two.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_00: I read Honor Levy's book.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_00: She was really fucking annoying on that when she went on their podcast.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_00: I think that I actually read it before she went on there,
1:10:37
SPEAKER_00: and if I would have listened to that episode earlier,
1:10:40
SPEAKER_00: like before,
1:10:41
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:10:41
SPEAKER_00: I would have not fucking read her book because I was like,
1:10:43
SPEAKER_00: fucking sound like an insufferable fucking twat,
1:10:46
SPEAKER_00: right?
1:10:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_00: But she's a great – I say great.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_00: Take that back.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_00: Roll that back.
1:10:53
SPEAKER_00: She's a good writer.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_00: She has nothing to say though.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_00: That was kind of the problem.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_00: It's like you're right.
1:10:58
SPEAKER_00: It's like there's something cowardly about it.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:11:01
SPEAKER_00: The Red Scare girls are a little bit more edgy than she is.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_00: You think that for all this fucking energy and dime square and stuff,
1:11:08
SPEAKER_00: she'd have something to fucking say.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_00: And it's basically about going to parties.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, bitch.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_00: You're a rich girl that went to parties.
1:11:15
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:11:15
SPEAKER_00: Whoop-de-fucking-do.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:11:19
SPEAKER_00: All right, like it's not like edgy in a way
1:11:22
SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to say this, right?
1:11:23
SPEAKER_00: In a way,
1:11:24
SPEAKER_00: some of the shit libs on the left are kind of right,
1:11:26
SPEAKER_00: that there is a little bit too much nepotism and a lot of stuff.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of these rich people have nothing to say.
1:11:32
And the voices of these underprivileged people are not like
1:11:37
being – because it is
1:11:39
SPEAKER_00: more interesting,
1:11:39
SPEAKER_00: right?
1:11:40
The poor black girl that's having an abortion behind Target or
1:11:44
whatever is a lot
1:11:44
more interesting than whatever the fuck Honor Levy does
1:11:47
partying in Europe with her
1:11:48
SPEAKER_00: fucking rich boyfriend or whatever the fuck,
1:11:50
SPEAKER_00: right?
1:11:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_00: But,
1:11:53
SPEAKER_00: right,
1:11:54
the only problem is these people aren't giving voice to those
1:11:59
people because those
1:12:00
SPEAKER_00: people aren't fucking writing.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
1:12:02
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, right?
1:12:04
And what they get is they just basically get rich Nepo kids
1:12:10
that are Indian.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
1:12:13
Like they've replaced like Nepo kids from fucking,
1:12:17
you know,
1:12:17
white Jewish families with –
1:12:21
indians or chinese you know and it's the same shit right
1:12:25
ultimately all these stuff
1:12:27
goes down to like every every mainstream literary novel you
1:12:31
know every other one
1:12:32
basically is oh i'm a rich girl i went to europe and i wanted
1:12:36
to bang my professor
1:12:37
SPEAKER_00: but he treated me like shit and now i'm finding myself
1:12:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_01: And I can't, again, dox myself or anything like that.
1:12:45
SPEAKER_01: But I've rubbed shoulders with those types.
1:12:48
SPEAKER_01: I know,
1:12:49
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
1:12:50
SPEAKER_01: what they're doing behind the scenes,
1:12:51
SPEAKER_01: what their work methods are and all that kind of shit.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not impressed.
1:12:58
SPEAKER_01: Like,
1:12:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm usually impressed by,
1:13:00
SPEAKER_01: like,
1:13:00
SPEAKER_01: there was a book by Sophie Kemp that came out recently,
1:13:04
SPEAKER_01: Paradise Logic.
1:13:05
SPEAKER_01: And it's just like that BPD girl sort of deranged aesthetic.
1:13:11
SPEAKER_01: And like, I appreciate it for what it is.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_01: Stylistically, it's very fun and it's very engaging.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_01: And all that sort of stuff.
1:13:18
And I mean,
1:13:19
I sort of borrow in that from time to time in the poetry form.
1:13:22
SPEAKER_01: But it's more just they have the platform.
1:13:26
They've been given it somehow,
1:13:27
either through nepotism or just sheer hard work or both.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_01: But they don't really take that,
1:13:35
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
1:13:36
SPEAKER_01: chance on,
1:13:38
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
1:13:38
SPEAKER_01: material that would rub people in the industry the wrong way.
1:13:42
long term right they don't want to get blacklisted all that so
1:13:45
they'll they'll talk
1:13:47
about a lot of the things that we might talk about they're
1:13:51
really just not going to
1:13:52
take a hard line stance on anything um it's like a politician's
1:13:57
approach to writing
1:13:58
SPEAKER_01: with this kind of weird veneer of edginess.
1:14:03
SPEAKER_01: And personally, I just don't think there's much of a point in doing that.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_01: And so I figured I'd go all the fucking way,
1:14:09
SPEAKER_01: like with this project and the other ones I've got out there,
1:14:12
SPEAKER_01: like there's,
1:14:13
And to Fisto's point before,
1:14:15
I mean,
1:14:15
what kind of legacy are you going to have?
1:14:18
SPEAKER_01: What do you want to do in this lifetime?
1:14:21
SPEAKER_01: You can do it.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_01: You can just go out and do it.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the worst that's going to happen to you?
1:14:26
But they just,
1:14:27
yeah,
1:14:28
they're gutless in the end,
1:14:29
unfortunately,
1:14:30
as much as I like them.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_00: Right, and that's what it feels like.
1:14:33
And I think I was going to write a review on Honor Levy's book,
1:14:38
and I was like,
1:14:39
I don't want to.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I don't really care enough, you know?
1:14:44
SPEAKER_00: I want to touch on something.
1:14:46
SPEAKER_00: Let me talk shit on Honor Levy for one second.
1:14:49
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
1:14:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I always defer to talking shit on Honor Levy.
1:14:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
1:14:53
SPEAKER_00: I apologize.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_00: I forgot myself.
1:14:55
SPEAKER_00: I just joke.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't hate her.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure she's amazing and great and whatever, right?
1:14:59
SPEAKER_00: I do have a thought.
1:15:01
SPEAKER_00: I feel like she could write something really good.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, like there's something there.
1:15:07
SPEAKER_00: Like she is a pretty good writer, you know.
1:15:11
And she just needs to,
1:15:12
I don't know,
1:15:13
fucking write something real,
1:15:15
you know.
1:15:15
SPEAKER_00: Like drop the cutesy fucking internet shit,
1:15:18
SPEAKER_00: okay,
1:15:18
SPEAKER_00: that's like 2019 and just write the fucking truth,
1:15:22
SPEAKER_00: you know.
1:15:22
SPEAKER_00: It just – stop hiding behind irony, you know.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_00: It's like those punk rock girls, you know, that are like just –
1:15:30
fake as fuck you know and it's like all hot topic and shit just
1:15:33
be fucking real man
1:15:34
like just take a shit in the parking lot behind the bar dude
1:15:37
just fucking do it you
1:15:38
know i mean anyways go ahead fisto well it's it's it's the idea
1:15:44
that we write like
1:15:45
politicians we write like bureaucrats we write like people
1:15:51
trying to survive a
1:15:54
SPEAKER_02: psychic stalinist gulag
1:15:57
SPEAKER_02: I think in a lot of ways that's what's happened.
1:15:59
SPEAKER_02: That's what liberal democracy has done to all of us.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_02: And I'm speaking not of democracy or liberalism per se,
1:16:07
but the idea of this bureaucratic liberalism that has developed
1:16:11
since the end of
1:16:12
SPEAKER_02: World War II,
1:16:14
SPEAKER_02: the stuff that defeated communism,
1:16:16
SPEAKER_02: it's turned around and eaten itself.
1:16:19
something that happened today that was kind of interesting i
1:16:22
want to describe it
1:16:23
now i'm a artist or right i don't know what i'm doing with with
1:16:27
with i don't know
1:16:28
what i'm doing with paint and uh a brush but we had this this
1:16:33
kind of a little team
1:16:34
building exercise at school today and we were to paint a
1:16:39
portrait of our of our
1:16:42
partner of of one of our colleagues and you know it it was a
1:16:46
lark it was a laugh
1:16:47
SPEAKER_02: whatever
1:16:49
SPEAKER_02: But I noticed something.
1:16:50
SPEAKER_02: I honestly tried to paint something.
1:16:52
SPEAKER_02: I tried to do the truth.
1:16:54
SPEAKER_02: And I also,
1:16:55
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:16:56
SPEAKER_02: tried to kind of take the piss a little bit by making it some red,
1:16:59
SPEAKER_02: white,
1:17:00
SPEAKER_02: and blue,
1:17:00
SPEAKER_02: you know.
1:17:02
I'm describing the escation of my colleague's soul as he
1:17:06
engages in the form of his teaching.
1:17:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, I made up some bullshit.
1:17:10
SPEAKER_02: But I did actually try to paint something unique.
1:17:12
SPEAKER_02: First thing I did was turn the canvas 90 degrees,
1:17:15
SPEAKER_02: decide on the aesthetic,
1:17:16
SPEAKER_02: decide on the color,
1:17:17
SPEAKER_02: and just slap some shit on there and just go where it went.
1:17:20
SPEAKER_00: Just Jackson Pollocked it a bit.
1:17:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
1:17:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
1:17:23
SPEAKER_02: Jackson Pollocked it.
1:17:25
SPEAKER_02: I resisted taking the dick out and painting with it.
1:17:27
SPEAKER_02: But I got it done.
1:17:30
SPEAKER_02: And it's crap.
1:17:31
SPEAKER_02: It's crap.
1:17:32
SPEAKER_02: But when I was sitting there looking at it, it was like,
1:17:36
SPEAKER_02: That's honest, at least.
1:17:37
SPEAKER_02: That's literally the best I could do.
1:17:39
SPEAKER_02: I just slapped it on there and just go for it.
1:17:44
SPEAKER_02: And we're all afraid of pissing the guards off.
1:17:46
SPEAKER_02: We're all afraid of pissing the... You can't say that.
1:17:52
SPEAKER_02: We're just all scared of pissing the guards off.
1:17:53
SPEAKER_02: So we never do anything honest, even if it's garbage.
1:17:56
SPEAKER_02: A while back, I think we were talking to Alex, talking about plays.
1:18:01
SPEAKER_02: Yes, the playwright that we interviewed.
1:18:03
SPEAKER_02: you know, bad plays are the best plays.
1:18:06
SPEAKER_02: Kevin, Kevin.
1:18:07
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:18:07
SPEAKER_02: From that, that stuck with me, man.
1:18:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:10
SPEAKER_02: The best, the, the, the worst plays are the best plays.
1:18:14
SPEAKER_02: The worst poetry is the best poetry.
1:18:16
SPEAKER_02: The worst, anything is the best.
1:18:17
SPEAKER_02: As long as you've decided, decided I'm going to try to do something true.
1:18:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to try to do something true.
1:18:22
SPEAKER_02: You have to start there.
1:18:24
SPEAKER_02: And if you don't,
1:18:26
know well you might as well ask for the wall because what's
1:18:29
even the point then you
1:18:30
know i don't know right so i mean your thought is on point you
1:18:34
know it's very much
1:18:35
SPEAKER_00: like the whole like uh um you know
1:18:39
SPEAKER_00: the, uh, sincerity, post sincerity thing that what's his name?
1:18:44
SPEAKER_00: You know,
1:18:44
SPEAKER_00: um,
1:18:44
SPEAKER_00: the whole idea that,
1:18:45
SPEAKER_00: that gen Xers were just completely wallowed in irony and,
1:18:50
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:18:50
SPEAKER_00: us older millennials also kind of have that.
1:18:53
SPEAKER_00: Everything is ironic.
1:18:54
SPEAKER_00: We're, we're not going to try anything, you know?
1:18:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what Gen Zers do.
1:18:58
SPEAKER_00: They just goon in their fucking caves all day, you know?
1:19:01
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, there is.
1:19:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
1:19:06
SPEAKER_00: when it comes to poetry,
1:19:07
SPEAKER_00: right,
1:19:08
SPEAKER_00: or any,
1:19:09
SPEAKER_00: like,
1:19:09
SPEAKER_00: art that you put out there,
1:19:11
SPEAKER_00: right,
1:19:11
SPEAKER_00: it's rough because being honest is hard in a way,
1:19:14
SPEAKER_00: right?
1:19:14
SPEAKER_00: Being honest is rough.
1:19:16
yeah it's like you're putting yourself out there and people are
1:19:19
going to read it
1:19:20
they're going to judge it and stuff and we live in this really
1:19:23
weird weird world
1:19:25
where um like i said on last episode right the 21st century
1:19:28
media form is not the
1:19:29
film it's actually the internet right the the the social media
1:19:33
characters right
1:19:34
like there's no movie stars there's tick tock stars and we're
1:19:38
all characters
1:19:39
SPEAKER_00: including us right we're using fake names
1:19:42
actually my name is not fake my name is actually alexander
1:19:44
constantine okay so i
1:19:45
dox myself many years ago so you guys can lick my balls i'll
1:19:48
ventilate you if you
1:19:49
look for me okay um give me a reason to blow your brains off
1:19:57
because i live in
1:19:58
south carolina make my make my day wait i can shoot you i can
1:20:02
shoot you legally
1:20:03
here if you cross like look at my house i can fucking ventilate
1:20:07
your ass okay i
1:20:08
SPEAKER_00: live in the goddamn south boy
1:20:10
are you letting them know that you're they're huckleberry are
1:20:13
we outstanding my
1:20:15
fucking six-year-old will fucking cap your ass if you look at
1:20:18
my house okay all
1:20:21
right um playing fortnight strapped all right okay she's a
1:20:26
beast okay night man
1:20:27
she's like like you know slaying bodies i walked in one time
1:20:31
into the living room
1:20:32
she was sick she had like a fever so she was sitting there like
1:20:35
wrapped in like a
1:20:35
towel like half naked you know and just cussing at the tv you
1:20:39
know i'm like what
1:20:40
SPEAKER_00: the
1:20:40
hell are you doing there right and she's just like i just
1:20:42
fucking owned this
1:20:43
motherfucker i'm like what the fuck taught you to talk like
1:20:45
that oh yeah it's your
1:20:47
mom um but yeah no but you know it's like yeah there's there's
1:20:53
a lack of sincerity
1:20:55
SPEAKER_00: and
1:20:56
SPEAKER_00: I think your work, Jasper, in a way it's insincere, right?
1:21:00
SPEAKER_00: The whole project of it is insincere, right?
1:21:03
On its surface,
1:21:04
but it's actually the opposite if you really want to be honest,
1:21:07
right?
1:21:08
It actually is sincere because it is making fun of an insincere environment.
1:21:14
SPEAKER_00: You're basically doing honest,
1:21:19
you're bringing honest attention to an environment that is a
1:21:22
complete and total
1:21:23
SPEAKER_00: fucking joke,
1:21:23
SPEAKER_00: right?
1:21:24
right yeah and once you when once this environment is
1:21:27
demolished then hopefully
1:21:30
what follows is true sincerity and true honesty instead of all
1:21:34
these make-believe
1:21:36
pretend bullshit that you know we're inundated with and this is
1:21:40
really an academic
1:21:41
problem uh the real world i don't know if you guys who work in
1:21:45
academia know this
1:21:46
SPEAKER_00: but there's your world and then there's everybody else right and
1:21:49
SPEAKER_00: The real world doesn't even pay attention to this shit, right?
1:21:52
And the reason it doesn't pay attention to this shit is because
1:21:55
it's fake and gay
1:21:56
SPEAKER_00: because they made it that way.
1:21:58
SPEAKER_00: And that's sad.
1:22:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
1:22:04
I have trouble teaching socials now because like all the
1:22:07
narratives I have to teach
1:22:08
SPEAKER_01: are fake and gay.
1:22:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, wow, this is not at all how this happened.
1:22:11
SPEAKER_01: Like I could,
1:22:12
I can prove it to these kids that there's an alternative theory
1:22:15
that makes far more sense,
1:22:16
SPEAKER_01: but they're probably going to get mad at me if I do this.
1:22:19
SPEAKER_01: So yeah,
1:22:20
SPEAKER_01: I got a hint at it.
1:22:21
SPEAKER_01: I got to offer both at least.
1:22:23
Then you get reported by colleagues or someone tells their
1:22:26
fucking mom and all this
1:22:28
SPEAKER_01: sort of shit.
1:22:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh my god, don't make me teach socials anymore.
1:22:33
SPEAKER_01: You didn't get deported.
1:22:34
SPEAKER_01: You're like, I was born here.
1:22:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, sorry, dude.
1:22:37
SPEAKER_01: You're deported.
1:22:39
If I pulled this kind of shit in real life all the time,
1:22:41
I'd get Guantanamo'd pretty fast.
1:22:43
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, it's...
1:22:49
yeah on the surface it looks like i'm a complete dickhead who
1:22:54
you know pretended to
1:22:55
be an indigenous healer and all this sort of stuff just for you
1:22:58
know just to make
1:22:59
everyone mad because oh i'm a white male who got excluded a
1:23:02
couple of times that
1:23:03
SPEAKER_01: kind of shit i already know what they're gonna say to me but
1:23:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
1:23:08
the other sort of part of the expose at the back and the
1:23:11
afterward is I've I've
1:23:14
essentially proven that they're kind of killing themselves with
1:23:18
this because
1:23:19
SPEAKER_01: there's the also the part where I sent poems out as,
1:23:23
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:23:23
SPEAKER_01: white male guy.
1:23:25
SPEAKER_01: and got a fuckload of rejections,
1:23:27
but then I sent those exact same ones out as Adele or whomever
1:23:32
and got instant acceptances.
1:23:34
SPEAKER_01: So like,
1:23:36
they're just cannibalizing themselves at this point by imposing
1:23:40
these weird
1:23:41
SPEAKER_01: restrictions and kind of furthering the irony at the same time.
1:23:45
SPEAKER_01: Like they're, they're, they're doing something very bizarre.
1:23:49
SPEAKER_01: And I, I,
1:23:50
SPEAKER_01: I've mostly come to terms with it,
1:23:52
SPEAKER_01: but then I just see new iterations and new sort of like layers added on.
1:23:57
SPEAKER_01: And you got to constantly keep abreast of all of this.
1:24:01
SPEAKER_01: But I guess in the end,
1:24:05
Yeah,
1:24:05
I would hope that people would arrive at some degree of
1:24:10
authenticity after this.
1:24:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm not expecting a complete shift.
1:24:13
SPEAKER_01: No one makes jokes anymore.
1:24:15
SPEAKER_01: Everyone writes about the experience of,
1:24:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
1:24:18
SPEAKER_01: taking a shit behind the dumpster behind the bar and all that.
1:24:22
SPEAKER_01: And they're
1:24:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, being super honest about what drove them to that point.
1:24:26
SPEAKER_01: And they're not making a joke about their poverty and all that.
1:24:30
There will always be some degree of irony to all of this
1:24:34
because it's a very useful
1:24:36
SPEAKER_01: and worthwhile aspect of the literary industry.
1:24:39
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
1:24:40
SPEAKER_01: But I would just say that if 95% of like the outlet scene and all that,
1:24:45
SPEAKER_01: from what I've seen,
1:24:45
SPEAKER_01: anyway,
1:24:45
SPEAKER_01: novelists and blah,
1:24:46
SPEAKER_01: blah,
1:24:46
SPEAKER_01: blah,
1:24:47
SPEAKER_01: is just like pure ironic,
1:24:50
SPEAKER_01: just drivel.
1:24:53
If we're all doing it,
1:24:55
then there's really no reason to read more than a couple of
1:24:58
these books.
1:24:59
Like you're just going to get the same flavor just with a
1:25:02
slightly different plot
1:25:03
SPEAKER_01: line if there even is one.
1:25:05
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:25:05
SPEAKER_00: Everybody wants to be delicious tacos now, you know?
1:25:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that kind of shit.
1:25:09
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:25:11
Which I think he's great,
1:25:13
but he should be the only one writing that shit.
1:25:15
SPEAKER_00: Nobody else.
1:25:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like someone stamps it.
1:25:18
SPEAKER_01: They sort of put their stamp on a particular kind of routine or whatever,
1:25:23
SPEAKER_01: particular type of book,
1:25:24
SPEAKER_01: and that's okay.
1:25:25
SPEAKER_01: Then the world has that.
1:25:26
SPEAKER_01: They can go and find it.
1:25:27
I make the case that you could probably lose about 50% of all
1:25:31
the published
1:25:31
material from the last like 10 years and probably lose nothing
1:25:35
of value because so
1:25:37
SPEAKER_01: much of it is just reiteration.
1:25:40
SPEAKER_01: You're probably lowballing it.
1:25:42
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
1:25:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it might be closer to like 90 at this point.
1:25:45
SPEAKER_00: So, you know,
1:25:47
SPEAKER_00: How do we get here?
1:25:49
SPEAKER_00: How do we get here?
1:25:53
SPEAKER_00: How do we get to this point?
1:25:55
How do we get to the point where something like your stuff can
1:26:00
get public?
1:26:01
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
1:26:03
SPEAKER_00: What the fuck happened?
1:26:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to defer to Kaczynski and his...
1:26:09
and his diagnosis of the problem where we have been detached
1:26:14
from the natural world.
1:26:15
SPEAKER_02: We've been detached from any sense of resistance,
1:26:19
SPEAKER_02: any sense of,
1:26:21
SPEAKER_02: if you fuck up,
1:26:22
SPEAKER_02: the world will help you find out.
1:26:24
SPEAKER_02: And then the next guy is going to write it down.
1:26:26
SPEAKER_02: So he doesn't die.
1:26:28
SPEAKER_02: You know, we we've been divorced from that.
1:26:31
SPEAKER_02: Essentially.
1:26:31
SPEAKER_02: I'm saying we're too comfortable.
1:26:32
SPEAKER_02: We're too pampered.
1:26:33
SPEAKER_02: We're too,
1:26:35
SPEAKER_02: taken care of.
1:26:37
We literally live in a system that was designed so that the
1:26:40
worst things that could
1:26:41
SPEAKER_02: ever happen in the world could never happen again.
1:26:44
SPEAKER_02: And while that is a noble goal,
1:26:46
SPEAKER_02: it attempted to completely quash any sense of risk taking,
1:26:52
any sense of doing something dangerous simply because it is
1:26:57
dangerous and is worth doing.
1:26:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:27:00
SPEAKER_02: And crushing it into this
1:27:03
into this gruel this gulag gruel that we now like you like
1:27:09
jasper was saying it's
1:27:10
just the same shit published over and over and over and over
1:27:12
and over and over
1:27:13
again can i please have another sir you know that's that's all
1:27:17
this is and i think
1:27:19
SPEAKER_02: when we have people who
1:27:22
SPEAKER_02: Remember the old ways.
1:27:23
SPEAKER_02: Remember the old gods.
1:27:24
SPEAKER_02: Remember the strong gods.
1:27:26
SPEAKER_02: Remember the,
1:27:28
SPEAKER_02: I'll dare say,
1:27:29
the example of Christ and doing something insanely dangerous
1:27:34
because it was
1:27:35
SPEAKER_02: important and it was worth doing and giving yourself
1:27:38
SPEAKER_02: as a sacrifice to do what must be done.
1:27:42
And not necessarily that it's a Christ thing,
1:27:44
but just that everyone needs to be what they are.
1:27:46
SPEAKER_02: Everyone needs to be who they are.
1:27:47
You need to find the essence of yourself and play that out to
1:27:51
the end for good,
1:27:53
SPEAKER_02: bad,
1:27:53
SPEAKER_02: ugly,
1:27:54
SPEAKER_02: fucking do it.
1:27:56
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:27:57
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it's going to kill you.
1:27:59
SPEAKER_02: And we all get out eventually.
1:28:00
SPEAKER_02: You know, we all got to go eventually.
1:28:03
SPEAKER_02: So it might as well be for the Empire.
1:28:06
SPEAKER_02: But, you know, I'm joking, but I'm also kind of not.
1:28:08
SPEAKER_02: Like, it's got to be for something bigger.
1:28:10
SPEAKER_02: It's got to be for something bigger.
1:28:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
1:28:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, I just thought back in the...
1:28:17
uncle sam's uh gun club days right um i was i was uh i i was
1:28:23
working you know just
1:28:26
i was just overwhelmed with like administrative nonsense right
1:28:29
just like you know
1:28:30
just fucking reports and bullshit and this and just i was
1:28:33
getting to the point i
1:28:34
was like just stressing out and i had this old salty ass
1:28:37
motherfucker that would
1:28:39
come by he'd always give me advice he was you know getting
1:28:41
ready to retire and he's
1:28:43
SPEAKER_00: all like
1:28:44
SPEAKER_00: He's like, man, don't give a shit about any of that stuff.
1:28:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what do you mean, dude?
1:28:47
SPEAKER_00: I got to do this shit, right?
1:28:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to get fired, dude.
1:28:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to fucking, you know?
1:28:50
SPEAKER_00: He goes, think about it this way, man.
1:28:53
SPEAKER_00: He's like,
1:28:53
there's like North Korean fucking nuclear missiles fucking
1:28:57
flying in this direction
1:28:58
SPEAKER_00: right now.
1:29:01
SPEAKER_00: what of your task would you actually complete?
1:29:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, everything else is fake and gay, right?
1:29:10
SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, that makes perfect sense.
1:29:12
SPEAKER_00: He didn't say that because I was like anachronistic, right?
1:29:15
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, basically he said that in more than a few words, right?
1:29:19
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you're right.
1:29:21
And so much of what we consider like the kind of mainstream or
1:29:26
the literature world
1:29:28
SPEAKER_00: or the film world and everything is filled with fucking nonsense,
1:29:33
SPEAKER_00: man.
1:29:34
SPEAKER_00: If shit popped off tomorrow, none of this shit would matter.
1:29:37
Like your pronouns and none of you would give a fuck about any
1:29:41
of that shit when
1:29:42
they have to gouge out some dude's eyes for a can of tuna that
1:29:45
they fucking
1:29:47
SPEAKER_00: scrounge out of.
1:29:48
we're three missed meals from good poetry again right pretty
1:29:52
much right yeah i mean
1:29:54
like when you know when when drones run by ai are gonna machine
1:30:00
gun you in the
1:30:00
streets the last thing you're gonna give a about is the
1:30:04
one-legged nigerian neo new
1:30:07
SPEAKER_00: marxist you know it's just nobody gives a about that right
1:30:10
SPEAKER_00: A lot of this shit is a side effect.
1:30:13
SPEAKER_00: It's a disease of success.
1:30:15
SPEAKER_00: It's a disease of cultural stagnation because we're too good.
1:30:20
The 20th century was too fucking amazing for most people that
1:30:26
they had time to come
1:30:27
SPEAKER_00: up with dumb shit like this.
1:30:30
SPEAKER_00: We're spoiled and it really is a
1:30:33
SPEAKER_00: it's a sin of cultural gluttony,
1:30:36
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:30:36
SPEAKER_00: because when,
1:30:38
SPEAKER_00: let's say,
1:30:38
SPEAKER_00: when that 776 bullet's coming at you,
1:30:40
SPEAKER_00: you don't give a fuck about any of that shit,
1:30:42
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:30:42
SPEAKER_00: nobody does,
1:30:43
SPEAKER_00: right?
1:30:44
SPEAKER_00: And sadly,
1:30:46
SPEAKER_00: I think we're approaching that world where we are going to have to,
1:30:49
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:30:49
think about this stuff and really kind of distill our art down
1:30:54
to its core,
1:30:55
SPEAKER_00: which is,
1:30:56
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:30:57
SPEAKER_00: the importance of cultural transmission,
1:31:00
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:31:00
SPEAKER_00: and like real important cultural transmission levels.
1:31:04
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:31:05
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, Jasper, I think you're doing fantastic, right?
1:31:07
I'm looking forward for more people to read this because this
1:31:10
is – I'm a fan,
1:31:12
dude.
1:31:12
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm basically – you are my Meowcom X now, okay?
1:31:18
SPEAKER_00: Hell yeah.
1:31:19
SPEAKER_00: So we're getting towards the end because I know you got to get going.
1:31:23
SPEAKER_00: That's where we started a little bit earlier today.
1:31:25
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
1:31:26
SPEAKER_00: No, basic bitch media, right?
1:31:29
SPEAKER_00: You're a film guy.
1:31:31
SPEAKER_00: I know your friends with Noah.
1:31:32
SPEAKER_00: Noah's a movie guy, right?
1:31:34
SPEAKER_00: So have you seen any good movies lately in the greater culture?
1:31:37
SPEAKER_00: Anything good?
1:31:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh, man, yeah.
1:31:43
You know,
1:31:44
I've worked,
1:31:46
let's say,
1:31:48
with screenplay writers,
1:31:50
and I've written a couple myself.
1:31:54
But I really don't watch much contemporary media like it's rare
1:31:58
for me to now
1:32:00
SPEAKER_01: because I just,
1:32:01
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
1:32:02
SPEAKER_01: knowing what I know about the sources of this media,
1:32:06
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
1:32:07
SPEAKER_01: and things like that.
1:32:09
I just I can't watch it in good faith without some sort of like
1:32:13
critical lens at all times.
1:32:15
SPEAKER_01: And it just gets to be exhausting.
1:32:18
SPEAKER_01: I view it the same way I view poetry and shit, too.
1:32:21
So I'll usually go back and watch things from like the 80s and
1:32:24
90s or wherever the fuck.
1:32:25
SPEAKER_01: Or I'll watch movies from like the 30s while I work out late at night.
1:32:30
SPEAKER_01: So best movie I've seen recently.
1:32:32
SPEAKER_01: Shit.
1:32:39
SPEAKER_01: I watched, you know, no, I've been watching Perry Mason.
1:32:44
SPEAKER_01: That's TV.
1:32:45
SPEAKER_01: The old one.
1:32:46
SPEAKER_00: I know there's a remake of it.
1:32:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh, fuck me.
1:32:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course there is.
1:32:50
SPEAKER_01: No, I was watching Perry Mason.
1:32:52
SPEAKER_01: With Andy Griffith or whatever.
1:32:53
SPEAKER_01: It's, yeah, fuck, I can't remember the guy's name.
1:32:57
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
1:32:58
I'll watch that kind of shit or like movies from the 30s really
1:33:01
do it for me,
1:33:02
SPEAKER_01: even though they're a bit dry.
1:33:05
SPEAKER_01: If they can suck you in, they're actually pretty decent.
1:33:07
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, this Enora stuff and all that, I just, I mean.
1:33:11
SPEAKER_01: I haven't seen it either.
1:33:12
SPEAKER_00: I did go see Snow White the other day.
1:33:14
SPEAKER_00: I thought it was fantastic.
1:33:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm just joking.
1:33:17
SPEAKER_00: I did not go see that.
1:33:20
SPEAKER_00: I just 100% did not think you were.
1:33:27
SPEAKER_00: The only movies I go to in theaters now is like kids movies, right?
1:33:32
SPEAKER_00: And my dog didn't even want to see that.
1:33:33
SPEAKER_00: She goes, it looks ugly.
1:33:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to see it.
1:33:35
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, cool.
1:33:37
SPEAKER_00: But she does want to go see that Minecraft movie.
1:33:40
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, I'm going to fucking crash my car before I go do that.
1:33:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:33:44
SPEAKER_00: So my wife's got it.
1:33:47
SPEAKER_00: I tagged her in on that one.
1:33:49
SPEAKER_00: It's all her.
1:33:50
SPEAKER_00: Minecraft is her.
1:33:51
SPEAKER_00: I haven't seen Enora.
1:33:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, I like old movies too, but I like French movies.
1:33:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm a homo like that.
1:33:59
SPEAKER_00: I like those French movies with Elaine Delon and stuff.
1:34:02
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, yeah.
1:34:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:34:05
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, nothing too exciting.
1:34:06
SPEAKER_00: It feels like we're just like at a weird cultural like dead end, dude.
1:34:09
SPEAKER_00: Like we're just like.
1:34:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:34:11
SPEAKER_00: It's just like a stagnation, you know, and I hope we can break out of it.
1:34:16
SPEAKER_00: And I want something exciting.
1:34:19
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:34:20
SPEAKER_00: And the reason I ask everybody like, hey, see anything good lately?
1:34:24
SPEAKER_00: Are you like have you read anything good lately?
1:34:27
SPEAKER_00: Like that's new.
1:34:28
SPEAKER_00: I want like I'm like dying for something new.
1:34:31
you know i want something that's like you know fucking not
1:34:35
mainstream but just out
1:34:37
there that i can get excited about and just there's nothing
1:34:40
there's just it's
1:34:41
fucking dead man it's like it's like i feel like i've missed
1:34:45
the party dude you
1:34:46
SPEAKER_00: know i mean that's what it feels like
1:34:49
SPEAKER_01: Hey, you're telling me you're older than me.
1:34:51
SPEAKER_01: You got a bit more of the party than I did.
1:34:54
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
1:34:54
SPEAKER_01: I was born into the basic like fucking death spire here.
1:35:01
SPEAKER_01: It's yeah,
1:35:04
SPEAKER_01: no,
1:35:04
SPEAKER_01: like to Fisto's point,
1:35:06
like this idea of these Kaczynski and surrogate activities has
1:35:11
really just fucked
1:35:13
SPEAKER_01: things up where.
1:35:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:35:15
yeah we're just so bored that we invent we attempt to invent
1:35:19
new aesthetics we
1:35:20
invent new ways to deprive ourselves of what we should be
1:35:25
focusing on and just it
1:35:27
shows up in media stuff now the minecraft movie i'm not gonna
1:35:31
go see that myself
1:35:32
i'm not the target audience but like that one at least seems
1:35:35
somewhat harmless like
1:35:36
kids can go there and just watch those fucking block creatures
1:35:39
do their thing
1:35:41
SPEAKER_01: Then you mix that in with Snow White.
1:35:44
SPEAKER_01: As a parent, now you're filtering so much shit.
1:35:49
If you aren't,
1:35:50
you're basically just allowing your kids to engage with that.
1:35:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it must be exhausting.
1:35:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, obviously I want to have kids pretty soon here.
1:36:04
SPEAKER_01: But,
1:36:05
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
1:36:05
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
1:36:06
SPEAKER_01: if I can't watch movies anymore,
1:36:08
SPEAKER_01: like,
1:36:09
SPEAKER_01: man,
1:36:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't think they're going to want to watch movies from the 30s with me.
1:36:13
SPEAKER_01: But I guess we're going to find some compromise.
1:36:16
SPEAKER_00: They will.
1:36:17
SPEAKER_00: Trust me, okay?
1:36:18
I sit down with my daughter and we watch all kinds of crazy
1:36:20
movies from back in the day.
1:36:22
and she's seen a bunch of shit that you know probably
1:36:24
inappropriate for her to
1:36:25
watch but she's seen a bunch of stuff right and that you know
1:36:29
children young kids
1:36:31
are a lot fucking smarter than we give them credit for you know
1:36:35
yeah and they can
1:36:36
the movies the movies are fun and honest yeah so they can pick
1:36:39
up on that and they
1:36:40
SPEAKER_02: go oh this is good this is a good thing
1:36:42
no you know it's interesting because like you know like overall
1:36:46
my wife is pretty i
1:36:47
guess mainstream kind of a normie you know she's no she's a
1:36:50
little bit based but
1:36:50
like for the most part like you know she she doesn't have she's
1:36:55
not an ezra pound
1:36:57
post-world war ii kind of person you know she's not like she's
1:36:59
not she's not
1:37:00
reading like celine you know or anything right um she is
1:37:06
reading lolita right now
1:37:06
SPEAKER_00: but that's very basic you know but
1:37:08
SPEAKER_00: She's at that level, okay?
1:37:10
SPEAKER_00: So she's at Lana Del Rey-based level, okay?
1:37:12
SPEAKER_00: We'll give her that, right?
1:37:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:37:15
But one of the things we've always done is we've tried to not
1:37:18
influence our child,
1:37:19
right?
1:37:19
SPEAKER_00: Except through our actions, right?
1:37:21
SPEAKER_00: So I don't sit there and I'm not just going on fucking,
1:37:24
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:37:25
based rants or like schizoid like Twitter fucking screeds
1:37:30
around her or anything
1:37:32
SPEAKER_00: like that,
1:37:32
SPEAKER_00: you know?
1:37:33
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:37:34
SPEAKER_00: Very, very, very normie around that.
1:37:36
Plus she goes to like a fucking private school and they're all
1:37:39
probably all shit libs.
1:37:40
SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to get her kicked out because she,
1:37:42
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:37:42
SPEAKER_00: or,
1:37:43
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:37:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
1:37:45
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:37:46
SPEAKER_00: so I have to be careful there.
1:37:47
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:37:47
SPEAKER_00: Cause repeat shit.
1:37:49
SPEAKER_00: But,
1:37:50
SPEAKER_00: so I've always,
1:37:51
SPEAKER_00: like,
1:37:51
SPEAKER_00: for example,
1:37:52
SPEAKER_00: when she was growing up,
1:37:53
SPEAKER_00: she's almost seven now,
1:37:55
SPEAKER_00: but when she was growing up,
1:37:56
SPEAKER_00: we never,
1:37:56
SPEAKER_00: like,
1:37:56
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:37:57
SPEAKER_00: we never,
1:37:58
SPEAKER_00: like,
1:37:58
SPEAKER_00: made her play with Barbies or something like that,
1:38:01
SPEAKER_00: you know?
1:38:02
SPEAKER_00: We never went on the shit lib where, like,
1:38:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you played with a Barbie little boy.
1:38:06
SPEAKER_00: Here's, we're going to trans you, you know?
1:38:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh,
1:38:10
SPEAKER_00: and then in the same way,
1:38:11
SPEAKER_00: I was never like,
1:38:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh my God,
1:38:13
SPEAKER_00: tractors are for boys,
1:38:14
SPEAKER_00: blah,
1:38:14
SPEAKER_00: blah,
1:38:14
SPEAKER_00: blah.
1:38:14
SPEAKER_00: Don't play with them, you know, or any of that nonsense.
1:38:17
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:38:17
SPEAKER_00: We just kind of let her do whatever the fuck she wanted.
1:38:20
Like,
1:38:20
you know,
1:38:20
so,
1:38:20
you know,
1:38:21
she had guns,
1:38:22
swords and Barbies and it was,
1:38:24
it was great.
1:38:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, we just let her do it.
1:38:26
SPEAKER_00: And she, my wife is kind of actually a kind of a tomboy.
1:38:30
SPEAKER_00: She's never really been a very, um,
1:38:33
girly girl type of individual i'm like the the the spiritual
1:38:37
homosexual that likes
1:38:38
shopping and all that stuff right and um yeah i'm the one that
1:38:42
listens to like you
1:38:43
know french yay music from the 60s and stuff it's so
1:38:48
surprisingly my daughter is
1:38:50
very princess disney princess kind of girl you know all on her
1:38:53
own you know she
1:38:54
SPEAKER_00: loves like nails and like makeup and all the girly stuff completely like
1:38:59
not influenced by anybody except herself and uh sometimes i get
1:39:05
shocked i don't get
1:39:05
shocked i guess like it's great is you know she knows how to
1:39:08
read she's a really
1:39:09
well read for a six and a half year old you know surprisingly
1:39:13
and she will say
1:39:14
SPEAKER_00: stuff that i'm like oh well that's
1:39:16
SPEAKER_00: That's a pretty fun bass there, you know.
1:39:18
SPEAKER_00: Why don't you just want to say that?
1:39:21
SPEAKER_00: And the Snow White thing was like an actual thing.
1:39:25
SPEAKER_00: She's all like – I never mentioned it,
1:39:27
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:39:28
SPEAKER_00: because every time like a preview came on for it,
1:39:31
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:39:32
SPEAKER_00: I could see like –
1:39:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, fuck, biting my knuckles, right?
1:39:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, fuck, goddamn, you know?
1:39:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm about to shut out, right?
1:39:40
SPEAKER_00: And I can see my wife looking at me.
1:39:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, she's like, don't fucking do it.
1:39:43
SPEAKER_00: Don't fucking say anything, right?
1:39:45
SPEAKER_00: Because she doesn't want me to influence her,
1:39:47
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:39:47
SPEAKER_00: to be like,
1:39:48
SPEAKER_00: look at that fucking ugly fucking Mongolian,
1:39:50
SPEAKER_00: you know?
1:39:51
SPEAKER_00: And my daughter's just like, we're in a movie theater.
1:39:54
SPEAKER_00: Like,
1:39:54
SPEAKER_00: I think we were watching like the Wild Robot,
1:39:56
SPEAKER_00: which by the way was a good movie,
1:39:58
SPEAKER_00: very good movie,
1:39:58
SPEAKER_00: right?
1:39:59
And she's like,
1:40:00
she goes,
1:40:00
that looks fucking,
1:40:01
she didn't say fucking,
1:40:02
she goes,
1:40:02
that looks ugly.
1:40:04
i don't want to see that and i was like that's right we don't
1:40:08
want to see that it's
1:40:09
horrible you know but then she's got horrible taste a little
1:40:13
retard you know she
1:40:14
likes that movie that that disney movie with the star or
1:40:17
whatever that i was like
1:40:19
SPEAKER_00: god for real worst movie i've ever seen ever
1:40:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like the anniversary movie.
1:40:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, you got a horrible taste for a six-year-old.
1:40:27
SPEAKER_00: Get a fuck out of my house.
1:40:28
SPEAKER_00: No.
1:40:28
SPEAKER_00: But,
1:40:28
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:40:29
SPEAKER_00: it's important that,
1:40:30
SPEAKER_00: like,
1:40:30
SPEAKER_00: you can't be,
1:40:31
SPEAKER_00: like,
1:40:31
SPEAKER_00: one of those,
1:40:31
like – you can't be a shit-lib trans in your kid and you can't
1:40:35
be a chud chud in
1:40:36
SPEAKER_00: your kid,
1:40:36
SPEAKER_00: you know?
1:40:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, you have to, like –
1:40:39
you know i have some friends that i have friends from both
1:40:41
sides right which is
1:40:43
horrible and i hate both of all of them right like i hate i
1:40:47
hate the the parents i
1:40:48
don't hate them right because they're humans and they're still
1:40:50
kind of my friends
1:40:51
but i have a friend that like you know oh you know jimmy's got
1:40:55
fucking long hair so
1:40:56
SPEAKER_00: he likes to come in no he doesn't he's just a dork your kid's just a dork
1:41:01
you know and then i've got the chud friends that like you know
1:41:04
give them like a rat
1:41:06
tail mullet and shit and like a trump shirt i'm like you're
1:41:08
just just as fucking
1:41:09
embarrassing as the person that's trans in your kids you know
1:41:12
what i mean like i
1:41:13
SPEAKER_00: hate all of you just can you just shut the fuck up and be normal
1:41:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:41:19
SPEAKER_00: That's what people need, right?
1:41:21
SPEAKER_00: I think that that's – you know how we call people retarded all the time?
1:41:23
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
1:41:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm like just fucking be normal.
1:41:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm tired of fucking crazy people, dude.
1:41:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm tired of everybody being fucking weird and like their thing.
1:41:33
SPEAKER_00: You ever meet those guys that like, oh, don't touch my hair.
1:41:37
SPEAKER_00: It's my thing.
1:41:38
motherfucker it's not your thing okay like it doesn't shut the
1:41:41
fuck up dude all
1:41:43
right do you ever meet those guys that have a thing oh that's
1:41:45
my thing it's okay
1:41:48
motherfucker it's not your thing okay just shut the fuck up and
1:41:50
be normal and fuck
1:41:53
out of here you know anyway that was my rant for the day uh do
1:41:57
you um most
1:41:59
SPEAKER_00: important question jasper have you ever played cyberpunk 2077 and
1:42:07
SPEAKER_01: I've seen the footage.
1:42:09
I've seen like Crobecat and all those YouTube channels like
1:42:13
just fucking destroy it.
1:42:15
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's any better now since the greatest game of all time.
1:42:18
SPEAKER_02: It's fantastic now.
1:42:19
SPEAKER_02: Have they fixed it?
1:42:21
SPEAKER_02: Legitimate work of art.
1:42:22
SPEAKER_02: I don't say that lightly.
1:42:24
SPEAKER_02: Legitimate work of art.
1:42:25
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
1:42:26
SPEAKER_02: Especially after the last update in the DLC.
1:42:29
SPEAKER_02: Fucking.
1:42:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they fixed it.
1:42:30
SPEAKER_02: Woo lad.
1:42:31
SPEAKER_02: Woo lad.
1:42:32
SPEAKER_01: Here we go.
1:42:33
Now might be the time for me to join in now that it's like a
1:42:36
400 gigabyte file.
1:42:39
SPEAKER_00: Well,
1:42:40
the reason I ask is because you have to ask everybody that
1:42:45
comes on the Judy or
1:42:48
SPEAKER_00: Panem question.
1:42:49
SPEAKER_00: You get to pick two women and you have to pick one of them.
1:42:52
SPEAKER_00: And we have an ongoing debate.
1:42:55
for the last year and alex thinks we do but we all know that my
1:42:59
position is correct
1:43:00
but i i use him because he's my friend and i like well
1:43:03
basically you have you have
1:43:04
to pick between the city mexican and the road mexican right
1:43:08
yeah yeah okay it's the
1:43:11
city the city is is cool the city is super cool for sure you
1:43:15
know just got a little
1:43:15
SPEAKER_02: bit of an attitude um basically programs hookers for a living
1:43:19
okay and it does all kind of hackers she's a pornographer she's
1:43:22
a yeah she's a
1:43:23
hacker pornographer okay hacker pornographer while while while
1:43:27
the road while the
1:43:28
road lady uh has a fantastic booty and is a waifu with the
1:43:32
right food so I you know
1:43:35
SPEAKER_02: as far as I'm concerned
1:43:36
done she's a she's a mechanic 50 caliber murder machine from
1:43:40
finger god three miles
1:43:41
out i just like my babies i just like my babies i like the the
1:43:46
tatted sad lesbian
1:43:48
like that's fine that's fine that's fine i just like our cause
1:43:52
man i like i'm sorry
1:43:53
okay you know what i want my i want my woman to be able to
1:43:56
defend a homestead chris
1:43:58
SPEAKER_02: kyle style okay that's what i'm saying
1:44:01
you're wrong about everything audrey is not better than donna
1:44:04
donna's better than
1:44:05
audrey and like you you probably like marianne over ginger uh
1:44:14
you know i think in
1:44:14
that case i don't okay because because ginger i mean obviously
1:44:18
you know who i think
1:44:19
is the hottest person on television in all history go for it on
1:44:22
all history go seal
1:44:24
SPEAKER_00: ball
1:44:25
SPEAKER_00: I just have a thing for Lucille Ball, okay?
1:44:29
She's one of the only funny women of all time,
1:44:32
probably in the history of women.
1:44:34
SPEAKER_00: So it's like...
1:44:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
1:44:37
SPEAKER_01: Lucille Ball,
1:44:38
SPEAKER_01: if I'm remembering correctly,
1:44:40
SPEAKER_01: was that not the woman that inspired the Snow White character?
1:44:43
SPEAKER_01: Am I misremembering?
1:44:44
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
1:44:44
SPEAKER_00: She was a comedian from the 50s and 60s, really.
1:44:48
She was in I Love Lucy and she was married to...
1:44:51
Basically invented television.
1:44:52
SPEAKER_00: She invented TV.
1:44:53
SPEAKER_00: Oh, gotcha.
1:44:53
SPEAKER_02: In a lot of ways, yeah.
1:44:54
SPEAKER_00: She's responsible for all kinds of shows.
1:44:56
SPEAKER_02: Responsible for all kinds of shows.
1:44:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Star Trek was her.
1:44:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:44:58
SPEAKER_02: Damn.
1:44:59
SPEAKER_02: She bankrolled that shit.
1:45:00
SPEAKER_02: She's like, Gene, I got you.
1:45:01
SPEAKER_02: Here's a bunch of money.
1:45:02
SPEAKER_00: She bankrolled Star Trek.
1:45:03
SPEAKER_00: Her and her husband, Desi Arnaz, basically.
1:45:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Desi was incredible.
1:45:07
SPEAKER_00: They're like media geniuses, basically.
1:45:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:45:12
SPEAKER_00: They were the first ever to –
1:45:15
So they had this show,
1:45:16
I Love Lucy,
1:45:17
and they did something very innovative.
1:45:19
SPEAKER_00: They actually kept the film of the TV shows because back in the day,
1:45:24
SPEAKER_00: they would film a live television show,
1:45:28
SPEAKER_00: send cheap copies to all the different networks around the country,
1:45:32
SPEAKER_00: and then once they were aired,
1:45:34
SPEAKER_00: they would go in the trash.
1:45:35
SPEAKER_00: It was never kept.
1:45:36
So they decided to actually film the stuff on much better stock,
1:45:40
like film stock,
1:45:41
and save it.
1:45:43
And by doing that,
1:45:43
they basically invented syndication to where you can watch reruns.
1:45:48
SPEAKER_00: So they revolutionized,
1:45:50
SPEAKER_00: they invented the idea of like television replays,
1:45:53
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:45:54
SPEAKER_00: and like seasons and that whole thing.
1:45:56
And they became really rich and she died of cancer because she
1:45:58
smoked a pack a day
1:45:59
SPEAKER_00: or something like that.
1:46:00
SPEAKER_00: But she was hilarious.
1:46:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'll definitely look into her life and all that.
1:46:06
SPEAKER_01: But actually,
1:46:07
SPEAKER_01: on the point of choosing between women here,
1:46:10
SPEAKER_01: because I'm also sort of an art hoe type guy,
1:46:13
despite the fact that they all write bad poetry and they're
1:46:15
generally insufferable
1:46:17
SPEAKER_01: past the third month.
1:46:18
um i'm gonna look up those two choices i'm gonna write back to
1:46:22
you and tell you
1:46:22
which one i would prefer after this yeah it's a critical
1:46:27
important thing okay like
1:46:29
it's basically like you're you're either on my side or you're
1:46:32
on fisto's side and
1:46:33
SPEAKER_00: he's wrong you know
1:46:35
SPEAKER_00: But it's, you know, I am in the minority, but you know what?
1:46:38
SPEAKER_00: Listen, I am, I will admit it, Fisto.
1:46:40
SPEAKER_00: I am in the minority.
1:46:41
SPEAKER_00: You know why?
1:46:42
Because elite taste,
1:46:44
sophisticated aristocratic taste is usually a minority trait.
1:46:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:46:49
SPEAKER_02: Look, look, this will all be settled.
1:46:53
SPEAKER_02: at the last battle at the end of days.
1:46:55
SPEAKER_02: So I'm, I'm more than caught.
1:46:56
SPEAKER_02: I'm more than happy to just wait and let fate take its course.
1:47:00
SPEAKER_00: I will give you something.
1:47:01
SPEAKER_00: You're right about Audrey.
1:47:02
SPEAKER_00: Audrey wins.
1:47:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:47:03
SPEAKER_00: So we're all, she's crazy, man.
1:47:05
SPEAKER_00: Are you kidding?
1:47:06
SPEAKER_00: I like Laura.
1:47:07
SPEAKER_00: Laura's number one, but I like her wrapped in plastic.
1:47:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:47:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:47:12
SPEAKER_02: No,
1:47:12
SPEAKER_02: Laura's Laura's top tier,
1:47:14
SPEAKER_02: but when she goes on her,
1:47:15
SPEAKER_00: but she's also fire walk with me,
1:47:17
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:47:19
SPEAKER_00: her cocaine binge,
1:47:21
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:47:21
SPEAKER_00: that's great.
1:47:23
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, Jasper, thank you for having us on, man.
1:47:27
I'm going to put the link to Paraube and Amazon where people
1:47:31
can get the Ikolela.
1:47:34
SPEAKER_00: I can't pronounce it, man.
1:47:35
SPEAKER_00: I can't pronounce shit today.
1:47:37
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
1:47:38
SPEAKER_00: I had a needle stuck into my spine earlier this morning.
1:47:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm in severe pain, and that thing was like...
1:47:45
imagine like the diameter of like a thick pencil lead that's
1:47:48
how it was like a 16
1:47:50
gauge fucking needle and they're like oh it's not gonna hurt no
1:47:53
it fucking hurt all
1:47:54
right and i felt it like break into my like spinal column and i
1:47:59
was just not it was
1:48:00
not a pleasant not a pleasant feeling okay um so yeah i'm
1:48:06
pretty fucked up right
1:48:07
SPEAKER_00: now
1:48:07
But I will definitely share everything,
1:48:10
and this is a really great episode.
1:48:11
SPEAKER_00: Probably, honestly, one of the funniest ones we've ever done.
1:48:14
SPEAKER_00: And serious at the same time, because we laughed, but really...
1:48:19
SPEAKER_00: It's really sad when you think about it, what's going on.
1:48:21
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
1:48:23
SPEAKER_00: And just the cultural world as whole.
1:48:26
SPEAKER_00: And then next week, Fisto, you want to announce what we have next week?
1:48:30
SPEAKER_00: Because this is your doing.
1:48:31
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:48:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh, gosh.
1:48:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:48:33
SPEAKER_00: By the way, I talked to him already.
1:48:35
SPEAKER_02: Good.
1:48:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm super happy.
1:48:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:48:38
SPEAKER_02: Next week is very exciting.
1:48:39
We're going to have Konstantin von Hofmeister on to discuss his
1:48:43
latest book,
1:48:44
Multipolarity.
1:48:46
SPEAKER_02: the new emerging global world order.
1:48:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, Constantine is, is, has a very poetic way of striking at the,
1:48:55
SPEAKER_02: issues of the day.
1:48:58
SPEAKER_02: It's going to be a terribly fascinating conversation.
1:49:01
SPEAKER_02: This is a smart dude.
1:49:03
SPEAKER_02: Love him, hate him, agree, disagree, doesn't matter.
1:49:05
It's definitely worth talking to him and reading his stuff and
1:49:10
getting exposed.
1:49:13
That's one of the nice things about him is that he really
1:49:15
exposes you to some
1:49:16
SPEAKER_02: incredibly complex things.
1:49:18
that are difficult to understand when you are part of the old
1:49:21
world that is
1:49:22
SPEAKER_02: currently melting into the ether.
1:49:25
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, that's how I'll say that.
1:49:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:49:27
The book multiple polarity,
1:49:29
I finished it just recently and it's really good.
1:49:32
And at first you,
1:49:34
you think that it's a very kind of a downer,
1:49:37
downer book,
1:49:37
you know,
1:49:38
it's,
1:49:39
SPEAKER_00: a book is the wrong word to say.
1:49:40
SPEAKER_00: It's more of a manifesto of the future.
1:49:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes, 100%.
1:49:44
SPEAKER_00: And it comes off kind of a downer at the beginning,
1:49:46
but ultimately there's a lot of hope in it and there's a lot of
1:49:50
good things and I'm
1:49:51
SPEAKER_00: going to talk about it.
1:49:52
SPEAKER_00: So what I recommend is once you listen to this,
1:49:53
SPEAKER_00: guys,
1:49:54
SPEAKER_00: if you're going to listen to the next week's episode,
1:49:56
SPEAKER_00: go ahead,
1:49:56
SPEAKER_00: hop on Amazon,
1:49:57
either order it real quick because Amazon gets your shit in
1:50:00
like 24 hours,
1:50:01
SPEAKER_00: right?
1:50:02
SPEAKER_00: Or get it on Kindle, definitely.
1:50:03
SPEAKER_00: It's from Arctos Press, Multipolarity by Constantine von Hofmester.
1:50:08
SPEAKER_00: Read it.
1:50:09
It's short and it's a punch in your nuts kind of manifesto
1:50:13
about future political ideas.
1:50:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't agree with everything.
1:50:17
SPEAKER_00: I don't agree with everything, right?
1:50:18
SPEAKER_00: We're going to disagree about some things, right?
1:50:21
SPEAKER_02: Here's what I like about it, just real quick.
1:50:23
SPEAKER_02: And for anybody that follows my sub stack,
1:50:25
I haven't posted in a while simply because I haven't really had
1:50:27
anything to say.
1:50:29
SPEAKER_02: And finally,
1:50:29
my last post kind of erupted out of it because it was a lot of
1:50:33
these ideas that
1:50:33
SPEAKER_02: come from
1:50:34
hoffmeister's book and you know i i don't know if i necessarily
1:50:38
see what he sees
1:50:39
over the rest of the world but i think his america chapter is
1:50:42
spot the fuck on
1:50:44
right that that chapter you know blew me away i even messaged i
1:50:48
was like oh yeah
1:50:50
this is fire dude yeah dude and and that's where my latest
1:50:53
thing comes from and
1:50:53
this is why i'm excited for what we're doing on the black ibis
1:50:56
podcast and the
1:50:56
people that we're talking to like jasper this is you man like
1:51:00
north america is
1:51:00
SPEAKER_02: going to become something
1:51:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:51:03
SPEAKER_02: America is not like the United States of America, Canada.
1:51:06
Like,
1:51:06
listen,
1:51:07
I'll tell you guys a quick little story if you still have time.
1:51:09
SPEAKER_02: But today, today I got to have a discussion with a kid.
1:51:12
He wanted to ask,
1:51:13
he was asking me about NATO and he was asking me about the
1:51:15
United States.
1:51:15
SPEAKER_02: And like, we were talking about global politics stuff.
1:51:18
SPEAKER_02: And he asked me what I really thought of the world.
1:51:20
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, well, here's what I've been thinking about lately.
1:51:23
So I pull up a Google map and I take out all the,
1:51:26
I take out all the borders.
1:51:27
SPEAKER_02: I take out all the political things.
1:51:28
SPEAKER_02: And I say, look, that is the, that is the world.
1:51:31
for real the these are the borders that god fucking drew okay
1:51:35
so whatever we put on
1:51:37
there whatever we decide on like i get it sure fine whatever
1:51:41
but at the end of the
1:51:41
day that's it and then i kind of drew the borders around north
1:51:45
america and you know
1:51:46
and then i kind of showed him the different continents and i
1:51:48
said you know here's
1:51:49
the border between russia and china it's this massive mountain
1:51:51
range and all these
1:51:52
SPEAKER_02: deserts so go back to the north america
1:51:55
SPEAKER_02: What's that going to look like in a thousand years?
1:51:57
The people that are living here,
1:51:58
you and me and our grandchildren and so on and so forth.
1:52:01
SPEAKER_02: And this kid's Mexican,
1:52:03
SPEAKER_02: like 80% of the kids in my class,
1:52:05
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:52:05
SPEAKER_02: like guys,
1:52:06
SPEAKER_02: what's this going to look like?
1:52:07
SPEAKER_02: What people are going to inhabit this world?
1:52:11
SPEAKER_02: And he's like, whoa, shit.
1:52:13
SPEAKER_02: I've never thought of it like that before.
1:52:14
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, good.
1:52:16
SPEAKER_02: Now you have and think about it and tell me what you think later on.
1:52:19
SPEAKER_02: But
1:52:21
SPEAKER_00: Just make them think.
1:52:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
1:52:23
SPEAKER_00: And then you fucking pushed them down and called them a bitch, right?
1:52:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
1:52:27
SPEAKER_02: I was like, listen, motherfucker.
1:52:28
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm kidding.
1:52:30
SPEAKER_02: And my favorite part about this,
1:52:32
SPEAKER_02: too,
1:52:32
SPEAKER_02: is that this year I've had so many fellows,
1:52:36
SPEAKER_02: so many guys who they clearly do not care about school.
1:52:39
SPEAKER_02: And look, they're 15-year-old young men, all right?
1:52:43
SPEAKER_02: We all know what they're caring about.
1:52:44
SPEAKER_00: They're caring about school is gay, dude.
1:52:46
Yeah,
1:52:46
it ain't what I – but every so often they pause and they're like,
1:52:50
yo,
1:52:52
SPEAKER_02: Can we talk about this?
1:52:53
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, here we go.
1:52:54
SPEAKER_02: And then after they're like, huh, their questions are getting better.
1:52:59
SPEAKER_02: So I know they're listening.
1:53:00
SPEAKER_02: And I look at them.
1:53:02
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, whatever future is going to come, it's up to you guys.
1:53:05
SPEAKER_02: And it's up to your kids.
1:53:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm done.
1:53:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm gone.
1:53:08
SPEAKER_02: I've had my shot.
1:53:09
SPEAKER_02: And I fucking wasted the vast majority of it.
1:53:11
SPEAKER_00: It is what it is.
1:53:13
SPEAKER_00: We're going to transcend our wizard selves.
1:53:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
1:53:16
SPEAKER_00: That's our last hope.
1:53:18
SPEAKER_02: You're leaving it to you, Gen Z fans.
1:53:21
we're hanging on the edge right the balrog has fallen we're
1:53:25
looking at you going
1:53:25
fly you fools look to us on the return uh you know on the fifth
1:53:29
day look to the sun
1:53:29
like that's where alex and i have got to go we got to go kill
1:53:32
the ball i might come
1:53:33
back as alex the rainbow wizard but you know i was gonna say
1:53:37
alex the gay alex
1:53:38
SPEAKER_02: ascended
1:53:42
SPEAKER_02: Let's send it.
1:53:42
SPEAKER_00: We're going to get banned off YouTube, right?
1:53:45
SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
1:53:46
SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
1:53:46
SPEAKER_00: Fuck them.
1:53:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, honestly, fuck them.
1:53:50
SPEAKER_02: What even is YouTube?
1:53:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know.
1:53:52
SPEAKER_02: What even is?
1:53:52
SPEAKER_02: I don't even remember what that is.
1:53:53
SPEAKER_00: I'll fight them.
1:53:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't even click the explicit content thing on our thing.
1:54:00
SPEAKER_00: Really?
1:54:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:54:02
SPEAKER_00: Let a six-year-old listen to this shit.
1:54:04
SPEAKER_00: He needs this shit.
1:54:05
SPEAKER_00: Grow up fucking retarded.
1:54:08
SPEAKER_00: And if he's retarded, even better.
1:54:09
It's good to know that you're retarded so you can fucking
1:54:11
control yourself.
1:54:13
SPEAKER_01: I straight up didn't even think this would make it to YouTube.
1:54:15
SPEAKER_01: So...
1:54:16
the only thing like there's no way the only thing that is that
1:54:20
is that is that is
1:54:21
explicit is the youtube explicit content button all right
1:54:24
that's the only thing
1:54:25
that's exactly exactly i actually have it auto so it gets sent
1:54:29
to like spotify
1:54:30
SPEAKER_00: apple and everything automatically i don't even look at it like i
1:54:34
SPEAKER_00: I made the YouTube account, and I just never fucking really touch it.
1:54:37
SPEAKER_02: Can't stop the signal, baby.
1:54:39
SPEAKER_00: Just send it out.
1:54:40
SPEAKER_00: All right, Jesper.
1:54:41
SPEAKER_00: Jesper Ceylon, thank you for coming on, man.
1:54:44
SPEAKER_00: There was a great episode.
1:54:46
SPEAKER_00: Every episode is a better episode than the last episode,
1:54:48
SPEAKER_00: but keep going back and listen to all the old ones,
1:54:50
SPEAKER_00: too.
1:54:50
SPEAKER_00: If you like this shit, please like, share, subscribe, and all that.
1:54:54
SPEAKER_00: Or don't.
1:54:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't really.
1:54:55
give a fuck to be honest you know i'm gonna do it all right but
1:54:58
if you really like
1:54:59
if you really like us please subscribe on substag that way you
1:55:02
can send us some
1:55:02
money because this shit costs money i was i was looking at all
1:55:05
the all the stuff i
1:55:06
spent and i spent like 600 so far on this podcast this year
1:55:09
when it comes to
1:55:10
getting equipment and stuff so daddy needs money it's not free
1:55:14
man i i have habits
1:55:16
SPEAKER_00: i have habits like my vape just ran out right like i need i
1:55:21
SPEAKER_00: It's rough out here.
1:55:22
SPEAKER_01: Get this man his money.
1:55:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I got my neck punctured and stuff.
1:55:25
SPEAKER_00: Do you think that shit's free, dude?
1:55:27
SPEAKER_00: That shit costs money to have some doctors.
1:55:29
SPEAKER_01: He lives in America.
1:55:29
SPEAKER_01: That's like $50,000.
1:55:30
SPEAKER_00: I got no health care.
1:55:32
SPEAKER_00: It's like $10 billion.
1:55:33
SPEAKER_00: I do have health care, right?
1:55:34
Do you know the sheer amount of incoming fire we have to dodge
1:55:36
every day of our
1:55:37
SPEAKER_02: life at all times?
1:55:38
SPEAKER_02: Basically, there's a gunfight happening.
1:55:39
SPEAKER_02: I've dodged five RPGs since this episode started.
1:55:42
SPEAKER_02: You guys don't even know because I'm that good.
1:55:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's fucking rough out here.
1:55:45
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, but I love you guys.
1:55:47
SPEAKER_00: I love all the listeners.
1:55:48
SPEAKER_00: You guys are great.
1:55:49
I love all the comments and all the great private messages you
1:55:52
guys send me.
1:55:53
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
1:55:54
SPEAKER_00: There's a bunch of great shows.
1:55:56
One thing we're going to start doing real quick is that I'm
1:55:58
going to try to do a
1:55:59
just me and Fisto episode once a month because you guys really
1:56:02
like me and Fisto talking,
1:56:03
SPEAKER_00: which is really fucking gay,
1:56:05
SPEAKER_00: but whatever.
1:56:06
SPEAKER_00: If you guys like to listen to just the two of us,
1:56:08
SPEAKER_00: we'll start doing those every other month or so or something.
1:56:11
SPEAKER_02: If you guys could dial back on the dick pics, though, that'd be great.
1:56:14
please i have so much gay porn on my computer right and it's
1:56:17
just like i don't need
1:56:19
it do you like the cowboy picture i posted earlier i did that
1:56:22
was really nice very
1:56:24
tasteful very tasteful that was actually not just a random
1:56:27
cowboy that was uh a
1:56:29
fantastic musician named um what's named orville orville peck
1:56:34
right uh and he is
1:56:36
SPEAKER_00: fantastic you should listen to his music it's great
1:56:38
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, Jasper, thanks a lot, man.
1:56:40
SPEAKER_00: Fisto, good night.
1:56:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, guys, have sweet dreams or don't.
1:56:43
SPEAKER_00: Do ketamine or whatever.
1:56:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, stay up all night.
1:56:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:56:48
SPEAKER_00: Write poetry, right, of all kinds.
1:56:51
SPEAKER_00: And see you guys next week with Constantine Hopmaster.
1:56:55
SPEAKER_00: All right.