Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory about his choice of The Ambassadors of Death (2/7)

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory about his choice of The Ambassadors of Death (2/7) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  I'm so drunk. Welcome back to answer with a
• 0:42
  blunt penknife the Doctor Who commentary podcast the
• 0:47
  highlights of my life are discussing Doctor, Who with my
• 0:50
  two, bestest friends, Simon heart and Fraser Gregory.
• 0:54
  However, we are Psalms Simon heart today.
• 0:57
  I'm here with Fraser Gregory. How are you doing?
• 1:00
  I'm doing very well. How are you watching
• 1:03
  ambassador's of death? And we've already thought of
• 1:05
  about fifty reasons as to why this is the best Doctor Who
• 1:07
  story ever. And we haven't even mentioned
• 1:10
  that the actual greatest reason go on which is the single best
• 1:16
  bit of ephemeral that has ever been included in Doctor Who that
• 1:21
  has ever been shown on screen than one single object, which is
• 1:26
  got the most indefinable magic. You know, the thing that sets
• 1:30
  this Jolly higher than any other story I thought, well, is it
• 1:35
  Liz. Short Hut.
• 1:36
  Oh my God. It's incredible, isn't it?
• 1:39
  It's amazing. It's just a work of art.
• 1:43
  It's just absolutely stunning. It just you know melts me hard.
• 1:48
  Every time I look at it is honestly I mean I could figure
• 1:52
  out on Emma Peel. You note our King, any one of
• 1:55
  them to the fashion icons of the time, she's fabulous and the
• 2:00
  fact that she goes running down that we're wearing it, she
• 2:03
  manages to drive a car and it stays on Earth.
• 2:08
  It's a hat for All Seasons. It's just it's a masterpiece of
• 2:12
  design. You know that with their boots
• 2:14
  is just tremendous well. Okay, well no actually let's tip
• 2:20
  into episode 2, mom. I've got a question for you
• 2:22
  straight off the bat. Okay.
• 2:25
  All right, again, I'm just going to apologize to anyone for any
• 2:27
  background noise that we hear my 4 month old puppy.
• 2:32
  Is currently taking myself out in the room with a squeaky toy.
• 2:36
  So, any squeakin? It's all because of my DVD
• 2:39
  player agent noises than you and me put together.
• 2:41
  So you know I think they're most welcome if you ask me.
• 2:45
  Yeah, she's a fan of the story so she's got good taste and we
• 2:49
  have a we have an audience that is very patient as well.
• 2:53
  You heard the audio quality of my first hundred episodes.
• 2:56
  Oh Sterling. Finally.
• 2:59
  Come out the toilet Fraser Island.
• 3:02
  Well, I've got the ways to thank for that for buying as a Yeti.
• 3:04
  Yeti on the roof. Tootin pixel.
• 3:07
  What's that? What for buying you there?
• 3:09
  The microphone here? I got me.
• 3:10
  She, yeah, she got me a Yeti for Christmas.
• 3:13
  So This one is too. Yes, that is not a euphemism
• 3:18
  Lucy. Do not come out as.
• 3:22
  All right. I know you've got the same.
• 3:25
  You do it. Okay?
• 3:27
  I shall do with that. You ready?
• 3:29
  Hmm. She do that in how many beans
• 3:31
  make five, four, three, two, one play.
• 3:38
  So my question for you is this. Yeah, is is lesure.
• 3:44
  The vet. Best classic Doctor Who
• 3:47
  companion. Nearly only think is probably
• 3:53
  tips it for me. Why is, but why she's so strong?
• 3:57
  It's because she We took when we did the two doctors, our very
• 4:04
  first recording, you know, as a threesome, you mean sigh.
• 4:07
  I made what I thought was a really bold statement, that no
• 4:10
  one actually batted an eyelid at which was that, you know, Doctor
• 4:14
  Who was never given us a female companion, that is anything less
• 4:17
  than strong or intelligent. You know, the most of them are
• 4:21
  either really strong characters or lead intelligent, where's no
• 4:24
  do Mel Mel computer programmer? It's great, she's independent of
• 4:30
  how How I honestly don't even like Victoria who does a lot of
• 4:34
  scheming around is, you know, strong from the sense that, you
• 4:38
  know, Victorian often thrown into a world of Cybermen and
• 4:41
  Daleks and for Monsters and yet he said, you know, holds our
• 4:45
  own. I think, when companies like
• 4:47
  Victoria, you don't expect a lot of them so that when she picks
• 4:50
  up that gum in Tomb of the Cybermen and blast that cybermat
• 4:52
  to hell, I'm very impressed. Absolutely, I think obviously
• 4:57
  Liz has got both of those qualities in abundance, she the
• 5:01
  thing annoys me very much about about this short, as how often
• 5:04
  she gets called Miss, Okay. Miss Shaw is always mishel.
• 5:08
  It's never dr. Shaw right, I'm just like just
• 5:11
  got like, six doctors to someone as I'm sure she's as you know,
• 5:14
  it's never dr. Shore, which it should be
• 5:17
  because, you know, get to know exactly how clever she is, but
• 5:21
  she's such a strong character as well in this story.
• 5:25
  We'll see you in a couple of episodes time where she is
• 5:27
  captured in. She goes to work on Lennox
• 5:30
  straight away. Like what you do and I know you
• 5:33
  you're a saint is what you got yourself into with this lot for.
• 5:36
  Help me escape. Come on the Brigadier, you know
• 5:39
  she just goes straight to work and get him.
• 5:42
  You know if that's you know where Tony until do a good point
• 5:44
  with throwing up the floor and she was just pushed us.
• 5:47
  All right, back out. Yeah, again, you know what
• 5:50
  annoys me right is that I think Barry Letts and Terrance dicks
• 5:55
  are fantastic at their jobs and what they're doing adults, who I
• 6:00
  also actually think J and T is a very, very competent producer.
• 6:06
  If dr. Hey and yet they all three of
• 6:10
  those men have the same issue with having a companion because
• 6:15
  it's this sure with the third doctor and it's Romana with the
• 6:19
  fourth doctor of having to Smart leads kind of running the show.
• 6:28
  And I don't think that's a problem.
• 6:30
  I don't think that's a problem either, I think if you look at
• 6:34
  season 6, You've got Zoey. Two is, you know, very similar
• 6:41
  to the show like so you've got Ramona you know, premiums gives
• 6:45
  us Ramana even GNT. I would say he gets a bit of a
• 6:49
  pass because he gives us Nyssa. He gives us a Direct Hit - I
• 6:53
  felt a bit more of in that sort of victim mode as well.
• 6:56
  I think by default that she's basically a kid, isn't she?
• 6:59
  She is you get to it as well. So you go from, you know, GNT
• 7:05
  rights over monitor but replaces up with Nyssa whose ass off.
• 7:08
  After character, you know you're a turkey and and replaces killer
• 7:11
  named Ricky, right? Outside replaces.
• 7:13
  Our do it with too low. And you know, saw the r is that
• 7:18
  you know smart companion that's running through the series and
• 7:22
  you know quite a bit on all it is a feeling I think and you
• 7:28
  know do what you want to sit here and cussed custis Persians
• 7:31
  at 9:55 sticks, but I think it is a bit of a feeling to see.
• 7:35
  This doesn't work, you know, it's a fairly of Even to say
• 7:38
  that the smart character, smart companion doesn't work you right
• 7:42
  around it. I think this story shows us
• 7:47
  exactly how strong the stronger. The smart companion works
• 7:50
  because it allows us to put a character in with the bad guys.
• 7:58
  So you get Liz gets captured and goes off and is our point of
• 8:01
  your character with Regan and Lennox and the Ambassador.
• 8:04
  So we have someone there who was then able to explain to us
• 8:10
  what's going on. Now when the doctor isn't, you
• 8:12
  know, that's that's where this type of companion, comes into
• 8:15
  their own In Joe to like, ask the audience identity.
• 8:21
  Yeah. Wishes least does do that in
• 8:23
  this season. Yeah.
• 8:24
  When it's something outside of her scope of knowledge, which is
• 8:27
  extraterrestrial things. She asked him those questions.
• 8:31
  But you've all, you've got an ensemble cast, you've got the
• 8:33
  Brigadier who can ask those questions, and then comes in
• 8:36
  Benton could be the one that asked those questions and you
• 8:39
  don't need to, you know, right out.
• 8:44
  Account. I like those sure and bring an
• 8:46
  account, I like Joe Graham, you know, the bring different
• 8:48
  things. It's very much, you know,
• 8:50
  Victoria versus so we, you know, in in that Dynamic each
• 8:58
  character brings their own Dynamic, The Story.
• 9:00
  So this story would not work with your Grant whatsoever.
• 9:03
  This is this whole season. You couldn't have Inferno and
• 9:07
  have an alternative joke, ROM as the section leader, and you, and
• 9:12
  I, in fact in that story. Specifically, you need an
• 9:16
  actress as strong as Carolyn John to play that role to be
• 9:20
  kind of a bit evil and sympathetic at the same time be
• 9:25
  equally though when you come to something like cursor pallid on
• 9:27
  it wouldn't work with this know that one little thing.
• 9:31
  I think, Joe's, marvelous thing around, I think it's not right
• 9:33
  or becoming very, very drill ground or any other companion
• 9:36
  because they are tremendous. Particle is sure is massively
• 9:41
  done a massive disservice than to actually never get to Archer.
• 9:45
  Or to step off of Earth as well. I would like to have seen that
• 9:48
  to I know we go to the parallel universe.
• 9:51
  Do you know what else is? Why that I think there's a very
• 9:53
  sophisticated Chemistry Between Jon Pertwee and Caroline.
• 9:57
  John and there are moments of extreme intimacy the bit in.
• 10:03
  The Sylar is where she gets clogged in the face and he's
• 10:06
  there and he is fussing over and stroking her face the bit where
• 10:09
  he wakes up in Inferno and she's with him and he's touching her
• 10:13
  face. The people say it's like the
• 10:16
  joke, ROM Third, Doctor thing, that's kind of where the romance
• 10:19
  is. I don't think it is.
• 10:20
  I think it's here, I think, yeah, there's this sort of so
• 10:24
  many levels. Start wishing to break said in
• 10:26
  episode on a bit where she brings in the tea, just thumped
• 10:29
  him on the shoulder is so, you know, it's, it's such a little
• 10:33
  thing to see. She's like the nagging wife
• 10:35
  where she goes. Oh, it'll make a nice trip for
• 10:37
  us. Come on, you know, we're going
• 10:39
  to come and you've got the, the, b in saloons where, you know,
• 10:43
  shaston Duggan to get Injection as well.
• 10:49
  You know what their compromise is, don't you baroness and
• 10:51
  Terrance dicks is obviously they do this extreme.
• 10:54
  Then they do Joe Grand, which is kind of like the Other Extreme
• 10:57
  then they do Sarah Jane. And she is both the victim.
• 11:00
  She can ask questions because she's the journalists and she's
• 11:04
  a strong female character as well.
• 11:06
  So it's just kind of like ticket every single box.
• 11:11
  Which this is great. This is this, and I think, I
• 11:14
  don't have you ever listened to any of our big finishes before
• 11:17
  Caroline. John Barbour.
• 11:17
  She did some really, really good work.
• 11:20
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 11:22
  It's a big loss. Let's say just All she needs is
• 11:26
  to start that scene. I say I'm Leavin, you know, it's
• 11:30
  needs that story where at the end she realizes well actually
• 11:33
  yes you know I am a bit better than just you know wouldn't over
• 11:37
  years and getting clogged by monsters.
• 11:39
  You know I've got me other or you're not just like well you
• 11:42
  know it's wonderful seeing the world but you know I've still
• 11:45
  you know got Queen calls to action controversial but I
• 11:51
  probably could most of the stories in see Season 8.
• 11:57
  It's only in the mind of evil you could slip this charade.
• 12:01
  I would have liked that second season with Liz and then two
• 12:04
  seasons with Joe. Yeah.
• 12:06
  Yeah I think you know basically Jewel brings things into a
• 12:11
  colony in space wish I had that first trip out in the Tardis and
• 12:15
  she's really scared. Yeah, in the doctor again is
• 12:17
  quite a dick to her and mix. I go out and explore the mode
• 12:22
  and you know, that's the sort of thing that Jewel, Grant really,
• 12:25
  you know, excels at And I think the story in season 8, that's
• 12:31
  the closest to this is closer back sauce.
• 12:35
  Yeah I can see you know you stick an extra two episodes on
• 12:39
  crows are black sauce which is the sort of like political
• 12:44
  machine Nations uh vaccinate beam spread around the world and
• 12:48
  what not and all of a sudden it fits it fits perfectly into I
• 12:52
  think towards of axles could do it a couple more episodes.
• 12:54
  Yeah. And it's directed by Michael
• 12:56
  Ferguson as well as well. And it did, you know his son of
• 13:01
  strong women. How many women there are working
• 13:03
  in this fabulous woman there with a barber.
• 13:05
  Just install hair cup in the background there with a
• 13:08
  clipboard. It's just sort of World
• 13:12
  building, isn't it? It's like, I've got this big set
• 13:14
  is big, massive set, which probably is a big, massive set
• 13:17
  but you know, it might offer. This is making it look like a
• 13:20
  big massive set with people layout levels people on
• 13:23
  different levels, you know, working with extras.
• 13:26
  You know, it's really building a sense of this being the space
• 13:30
  and about what I love about this direction is the close-ups.
• 13:35
  You know, there's so many close-ups, you know.
• 13:36
  He's he's given us a really beautiful.
• 13:39
  There's another one. Nick Watney speech.
• 13:41
  There is honestly I tibble I'm telling you right I'm going to
• 13:47
  segue then I'm gonna ask you a question.
• 13:49
  Go on unit costumes. Oh I don't agree with him at
• 13:54
  all. I think the season seven
• 13:56
  costumes are way better than the theories are.
• 13:58
  I think they just look like kind of Colonel blimp Frontera Boot.
• 14:02
  And then and and it's a bit too smart and it always looks
• 14:07
  freshly pressed and clean like this.
• 14:10
  Just off the rack or as I feel this is a bit subtle boiler
• 14:13
  sooty a bit more ready for action, you know?
• 14:17
  Yeah, it's look at this. They've built a fucking rocket
• 14:21
  and put it on location. I thought the production value.
• 14:26
  Yeah, it's just, it's just immense, you know, you've got,
• 14:29
  you know, there's a, there's a, there's a Korean comes in.
• 14:32
  Obviously, got a big, massive, flatbed to put the big rocket on
• 14:35
  to drive it back to the space and I saw you just seeds you
• 14:39
  money. Any money in Money.
• 14:40
  I don't think the production value ever dips this season.
• 14:44
  That's all. No, not at all.
• 14:45
  I think there's the odd special effects Shop, but, you know.
• 14:48
  Hey, when are we ever going to criticize?
• 14:49
  Talk to you for that? Absolutely.
• 14:51
  There's heavy. I mean, this is what lets and
• 14:53
  export in is the option. You know, this is this is what
• 14:57
  give the shore. The shot in the arm that it
• 14:59
  needed to service, it is easy to forget that after, you know, we
• 15:03
  love season 6 as Doctor Who fans, but the public didn't, the
• 15:07
  public were and it. Yeah, there are GPS on there for
• 15:11
  you, love the dominators for a while, like the crow Tom's, you
• 15:15
  know, the money. You've got, a, hearse is dry.
• 15:18
  Yeah, it's not so much that it's just, it's, you know, the
• 15:22
  production itself is just kind of running on fumes a little
• 15:25
  bit, you know, Pat troutman's knackered, you know, how much of
• 15:29
  you know what, season six is just survives.
• 15:32
  Just through the chemistry of, you know, Pat route and freezer
• 15:35
  Hines and when d-pad Brew is so strong, it does life really
• 15:38
  does, you know, A good power, the country or not.
• 15:43
  But I felt this energy crisis the show in Bryan idea of having
• 15:48
  longer stories set on Earth. So you can give this fucking
• 15:53
  show some production value pays off in space because I think
• 15:56
  what we're going to series season.
• 15:58
  A there are moments where the money kind of runs out and it's,
• 16:03
  you know, they're trying a bit too much.
• 16:06
  I think there's a couple things going on.
• 16:08
  Sort of behind the scenes is obviously like to see And those
• 16:10
  showings come in. You know, I had this idea I was
• 16:12
  stranded on Earth and everything's going to be
• 16:15
  Earthbound will make longer stories to maximize the budget
• 16:20
  sort of thing. That's not Terrance dicks and
• 16:24
  says, you know, one of those was a great idea and one of those
• 16:27
  was absolutely ridiculous in the commentary a copy.
• 16:32
  Don't if you actually specifies which one he thinks is?
• 16:34
  Which why do I heard him? Say another commentary if he
• 16:38
  thinks both them were bad. Yeah, unit isn't really Doctor
• 16:41
  Who and bound Ventures isn't really Doctor Who.
• 16:46
  Well, I think, in terms of the Earthbound Adventures that was
• 16:49
  my cookie cutters to him, you know, you've really narrowed
• 16:53
  your options are either going to have an alien invasion or mad
• 16:57
  scientist is the stories but But don't get that played out in
• 17:03
  this season. We get success doesn't hate you
• 17:05
  guys. I was determined to prove him
• 17:07
  wrong. That's why I did this.
• 17:08
  I liras they was here all along, you know.
• 17:10
  It's it's all you've got spearhead which is the Alien
• 17:13
  Invasion and you've got Solutions which is an invasion
• 17:16
  but not really because they are already, here you get this one
• 17:20
  which is not the mad scientist, it's the mod military, you know,
• 17:24
  it's not an alien invasion. It's a alien Encounter and then
• 17:29
  obviously infernal is sideways Apollo Noticeable to The
• 17:32
  Simpsons back on. Submit have another thing so
• 17:34
  marvelously dv/dt but you know I don't know if you ever watch the
• 17:42
  behind the sofas features on season eight.
• 17:45
  You've got Anjali Mahindra and session 21 watching those
• 17:48
  stories, right? And I think it's enduring mind
• 17:51
  of evil where Angela Mahindra goes.
• 17:54
  Well, I figured you know, like they were gonna have any money
• 17:56
  and this was all going to be really cheap.
• 17:58
  She goes, now I'm under the impression but they had a bigger
• 18:01
  budget back then. And what we've got now because
• 18:03
  they're just and this story kind of exemplifies that though.
• 18:06
  This is it, this is the other thing that was going on behind
• 18:09
  the scenes is that we went from black and white to color the
• 18:14
  color TV licence is coming, which costs more than the block
• 18:17
  and wait, I'll see you have money coming in that have
• 18:19
  actually, you know, for all that, you know, it's a long
• 18:30
  story. A scripted.
• 18:34
  What happens? Here is two policemen pop up in
• 18:35
  the road, then diverted the wagon.
• 18:38
  I'll we, yes, this is a great stories and their needs, it's
• 18:41
  sort of like Robin Hood it out and then they do this
• 18:47
  deliberately cheap. Then you came and I was they
• 18:49
  will have helicopters bombs. That's it.
• 18:52
  Make the Ferguson. Get to the script and goes no
• 18:55
  that's a bit boring and coming up, just Jazz this up a bit and
• 18:58
  obviously by we let's just goes. Oh yeah, I think because the
• 19:00
  have got like Make more money than than what they would
• 19:04
  normally have. So and because of the with a
• 19:08
  spending it so that I have the can get helicopters and it seems
• 19:11
  mind of evil, you know, mind of year was again.
• 19:14
  Another story that fits the mold of this season very well,
• 19:18
  because you've got unit doing unit things, you've got unit
• 19:21
  actually been soldiers and you have that big shootout in the
• 19:26
  prison and you have helicopters, we're very letter just went
• 19:29
  because it's still all. Wow, this isn't it.
• 19:31
  It's all going on here. Yeah, I don't I'm not sure I
• 19:35
  think it was mind of evil that when like prohibitively over
• 19:39
  budget and that's why Tim Coupe never directly dogs who again
• 19:43
  which is a shame because he's really really stylish director
• 19:45
  as well at the same time, you know, the story came to girls
• 19:47
  got the got to the end of the script and went.
• 19:50
  Well I can't see any way out of this other than helicopter so by
• 19:55
  we left when he had gone another helicopter you know that is a
• 19:58
  great outfit looks and says you know you write it And I'll
• 20:01
  direct it. All right, I've got another
• 20:06
  question for you then, because that scene, The warehouse in
• 20:13
  episode 1 which is a big shootout that we love from got
• 20:16
  this scene here now which again is just action.
• 20:19
  By Havoc, literally just blowing off the screen.
• 20:23
  Gasps guns going off and everything what are your
• 20:27
  favorite erectus is to become field?
• 20:29
  Yeah he was very good, you know military man.
• 20:31
  Very good at these sort of things.
• 20:33
  Do you think they'll become field would have done a better
• 20:35
  job of this? Then I go focusing.
• 20:38
  That's really hard to say because I think the action, He
• 20:42
  directed on location in Inferno is stunning.
• 20:45
  Like the sequence. Where the doctor first
• 20:47
  materializes in the alternate universe.
• 20:49
  And there's a Massive Action sequence on location is every
• 20:52
  bit as good as this. Probably not.
• 20:54
  Maybe on par, I think they're about as good as each other.
• 20:57
  You know. I don't know what happened to
• 20:59
  Michael Ferguson. I was Applause.
• 21:00
  All right. So I was like well I don't know
• 21:01
  why I didn't direct anymore. I think he just moved on, he
• 21:04
  went on to bigger and better things.
• 21:07
  He's Shane over. Then I'll call him back to do
• 21:09
  commentaries and things. They should have done some more.
• 21:12
  It is on this one which is really good because he passed
• 21:16
  away not too long ago. It's like was October last year.
• 21:21
  Joe. What really struck me about
• 21:22
  this? Not so much here but in the
• 21:25
  later episodes was just how much this felt like the X-Files to me
• 21:29
  with a government conspiracy people in higher places, doing
• 21:33
  underhanded things hiding evidence and things like that.
• 21:36
  Kidnapping the aliens and having them all of that plays out
• 21:40
  across The seven or eight seasons of The X Files.
• 21:43
  The first seven raisins, I'm wondering if Chris Carter was
• 21:46
  paying attention, you know. This'll, this is great old, but
• 21:51
  he seems to have stopped. Pertwee in this is just this
• 21:58
  again. Why I love this is because put
• 22:00
  we get this balance rate of being you know, this this
• 22:04
  pompous arrogant. You know, overbearing person but
• 22:07
  he's he's got a twinkle in his eye throughout, he's at the
• 22:12
  start, he gets kind of got over it because it's what we do.
• 22:16
  But the Cliffhanger resolution he's got the tape and he sort of
• 22:20
  magic set. Oh, I've heard people really
• 22:22
  complain about that because it is Your magic and the bill
• 22:26
  doesn't usually don't know about McCoy.
• 22:28
  He does magic tricks all the time.
• 22:30
  Well as Arthur c-- Clark said, you know to, you know, any
• 22:33
  civilization advanced enough technology is indistinguishable
• 22:36
  from Magic. So that's what I actually do
• 22:38
  that about filled with what he calls a bit of chalk out of
• 22:41
  nowhere. And says, I got it from the
• 22:42
  dartboard. Yeah, it's great locking, you
• 22:46
  know. So but you know, listen this has
• 22:49
  a line room where she says like, oh well, I thought you'd must
• 22:51
  have moved it forward and time again.
• 22:53
  And And, you know, and he goes transmigration of object.
• 22:57
  Exactly, he comes back and he says something that God don't be
• 22:59
  silly. It is that was, this is just
• 23:00
  pure transmen, transmigration of object follows it up, he follows
• 23:04
  it up with a smile. You know what I mean?
• 23:06
  He's follows it up and goes, he gives her a smile at the making
• 23:10
  sure that years, there's sort of nothing more doctors in it.
• 23:14
  Oh my God, the things been hijacked has been kidnapped and
• 23:17
  then he's just got his slack. Jordan, the doctors are with the
• 23:19
  capsule like where you been lifting Stewart.
• 23:24
  Applause this I found it for you.
• 23:26
  Oh, even minute. This is a very, it's a brilliant
• 23:31
  but fairy offbeat Cliffhanger, isn't it?
• 23:34
  Because it's not a moment of danger?
• 23:36
  It's a moment of. What the hell are we going to
• 23:38
  discover? It's not even that we'll discuss
• 23:43
  it when When we get there but it's a the likes.
• 23:47
  I love it so much. Absolutely thank you very much.
• 23:53
  They build the capsule. You know, there's any a few
• 23:57
  times when Doctor Who's done that like the remembrance we did
• 24:00
  when they built a shuttlecraft. The shuttlecraft year.
• 24:02
  I've action props like that. Yeah, that's him.
• 24:08
  Talk to his usually finding ways to cut Corners with money.
• 24:11
  This is finding ways to Splash the cash.
• 24:13
  I've seen so much on this one extra that flatbed, this set,
• 24:17
  it's just all it's all coming out, isn't it?
• 24:20
  And then, I think it's a footy season is because obviously
• 24:27
  don't Sherwin was brought on as producer but you left after one
• 24:30
  story to go and produce something else and it's it lets
• 24:34
  you know, maybe let's come in and so they have a very quick
• 24:41
  Sophomore season your yeah. Usually you see with like season
• 24:44
  12 and 15 and 18, where the new producer is coming in and
• 24:50
  producing the oil producers work?
• 24:52
  Yeah yeah. Oh I see this certainly like a
• 24:54
  crossover. Yeah yeah.
• 24:56
  You kind of don't really get that feeling with a season.
• 24:59
  It's it's oh no. This is a complete departure
• 25:03
  from six. Yeah.
• 25:06
  I mean we've had a few teasers were had the invasion, which is
• 25:10
  like a very portable unit story but as far back as the web of
• 25:14
  fear I think the web of fear is is a very proud or unit story.
• 25:19
  All too sure. Yeah.
• 25:21
  Well I'm sober as well obviously.
• 25:23
  Yeah, you've got them here. You've got the grumpy scientist?
• 25:27
  Travis is the doctor. You've got the young?
• 25:30
  Yes. And he's taught us obviously
• 25:33
  playing the leash or rule in that she's quite as well.
• 25:38
  That man Travis I'm Travis. Yeah.
• 25:40
  Strong will then I love this. Look, yeah, it's just someone
• 25:46
  like you. Someone comes up with a few
• 25:48
  genetics. Yeah.
• 25:50
  It's very James Bond as well. I think a lot of people say this
• 25:54
  is, like, quite a mess, but it has quit.
• 25:56
  I'm a sport. If you like it is worth noting.
• 25:59
  Yeah, that this radical shift of tone taking away, the Tardis
• 26:03
  grounding, the doctor essentially turning dogs who
• 26:06
  into quite a mess in the pit for an entire season.
• 26:10
  This could have been rejected outright by the audience.
• 26:13
  I'm Ben What the hell is this? You know?
• 26:15
  Yet instead we went from 13 million viewers in the end of
• 26:20
  the war games, to 8 million views by the end of spear from
• 26:24
  space, and they embraced it and said, no, we want mother.
• 26:27
  It's because, you know, there's so many elements that are
• 26:30
  brought in where they can see, it's it's Earthbound.
• 26:33
  So it's kind of like, you know, shocked and he's coming alive
• 26:36
  and shooting at you. It's fast paced, it's action
• 26:40
  packed. You know, there's helicopters
• 26:42
  dropping smoke bomb. Alms and things are blowing up.
• 26:44
  And can you think of another show that has turned a like
• 26:49
  turned a corner like this? So radically I can't think of
• 26:52
  what another one. Only think of shows, that's all
• 26:56
  right off dramatic and got more comedic.
• 26:58
  Like the X-Files, you know, as it's not fundamentally, take
• 27:04
  your premise and rewrite it over.
• 27:07
  Here we go. Yeah.
• 27:07
  Well, your lines coming up. What is the capital of
• 27:10
  Australia? We are not cleared for re-entry.
• 27:13
  The veins, like five new clothes for winter and lighten.
• 27:21
  Well, except when we cut it open, I think that's so great
• 27:25
  and then there's the sudden car. Yeah, of course, this is the
• 27:29
  first story where we'll get the sting in the credits.
• 27:35
  Yeah. Well, I think Barry Letts said
• 27:37
  to need that. He he didn't like you go and
• 27:40
  watch to be having space, those Cliffhangers feel weird.
• 27:43
  Yeah. Because the music just sort of
• 27:45
  cuts in, doesn't it? There's no there's no segue.
• 27:48
  Yeah. But I mean on paper this
• 27:51
  Cliffhanger has got no right to work.
• 27:55
  You know there's that you see there's no one in Peril.
• 27:57
  You're not advancing the plot of anything.
• 28:01
  Why does this work so well? Why does this have us on the
• 28:04
  edge of our seats? What I can tell you why I can
• 28:07
  answer that question. I think, because in those two
• 28:10
  episodes they've built up the suspense of him.
• 28:13
  Going into the shuttle and then they've had this long protracted
• 28:16
  sequence of the thing coming down, then trying to steal it.
• 28:21
  So we know there is something in there that they want, and then
• 28:25
  just at the point, where he say right, we're going to go in
• 28:28
  goddamn it. That's when the Cliffhanger
• 28:30
  games, then this. The when would the party will
• 28:34
  see the resolution, you know, the open it and then Liz, it's
• 28:37
  empty. Why is that not the cliffhanger?
• 28:40
  You know why this is not disappointing.
• 28:43
  Exactly. Because then the story pivots
• 28:45
  and another Direction and whatever's in has been taken out
• 28:48
  and then that's utilized. It's just like episode 1 where
• 28:52
  you think you've got that moment where the man pulls the gun on
• 28:54
  the bridge. Anything, that's the Cliffhanger
• 28:56
  that and it's not the cliff and is someone else pulling a gun,
• 28:59
  but it's it's very sudden and I don't know if that's why it
• 29:02
  works so well is because, you know, it's just the short sharp
• 29:08
  shock of what's Happening. You know, with they're not sting
• 29:11
  comes in and then you left thinking what happens next what
• 29:15
  is what is going to happen next and lot of it is down to put
• 29:19
  weight, a lot of its don't make the Ferguson because you know
• 29:23
  Pertwee is so intense in these First episodes you know there's
• 29:26
  there's a scene in the episode 1 where you know he's heard the
• 29:30
  signal from from the Mars probe and he's slapping East.
• 29:33
  I gonna currently member hilde this is and so intense by taking
• 29:38
  the office and then Casino is just got that mad intensity
• 29:42
  about them. We're like when he says, cut it
• 29:44
  open and we cut I think a lot - the facts as well.
• 29:48
  That classic who is just a g and it doesn't have pace and and it
• 29:54
  can't be produced with Precision like the new series is now
• 30:00
  absolutely I think obviously there is episodes The ReStore
• 30:03
  he's worked with chalk sloppiest in more, you know, a spheric and
• 30:08
  whatnot. But in terms of What this
• 30:10
  story's doing of just? Oh I think I think there's a lot
• 30:14
  of lazy Direction in classic here as well.
• 30:15
  I think there are some pedestrian direct.
• 30:19
  I wouldn't, I wouldn't say lazy. I think, you know, like I said,
• 30:23
  we're going back to the likes of, pick them off at and John
• 30:26
  Rabe. Yeah, they are functional.
• 30:31
  Yeah, the word I would use my bees more than anything, the old
• 30:34
  girl, functional directors. But again, you need those
• 30:37
  directors to come in if you're building a Season of your show
• 30:41
  and you're thinking well I've got you know, five stories that
• 30:45
  I need to make. And you know, what would be the
• 30:49
  juggling loads of these are the times you want a safe Pair of
• 30:52
  Hands? You want someone who you know is
• 30:54
  going to come in. Not give you any trouble.
• 30:56
  It's not going to go over budget.
• 30:57
  That's not going to run over time.
• 30:59
  You know that's where you like cependant Roberts come in
• 31:02
  because they will deliver and it might not be the most exciting
• 31:08
  Dynamic action packed. M c, you know, story.
• 31:13
  But if you have a Michael Ferguson common in every time he
• 31:15
  was going to be demanded helicopters and I know he was
• 31:20
  going to be seeing how I want X imagine how bad those end of
• 31:23
  Seasons. Ones are going to be when the
• 31:24
  purse is dry, you know. Yeah.
• 31:26
  You know but it's because the person is going to run dry.
• 31:29
  You a lot quicker because you're going to be and you're
• 31:33
  constantly going to be constantly having a jug of that
• 31:36
  sort of thing. So I really think you need
• 31:37
  these, these directors I wouldn't call them lazy because
• 31:39
  I don't think. No one comes into the short
• 31:41
  think. This is just going to be a, you
• 31:43
  know, I'll take the money and go everyone comes in and does their
• 31:45
  best. It's just obviously, some people
• 31:48
  like Donkey Kong feel like Graham Harper like and mega
• 31:52
  Ferguson could come in earlier as well.
• 31:55
  Then it's just a handful isn't it?
• 31:59
  Is like wearing I'm saying? Yeah McCoy's time and you man
• 32:07
  from him Warriors gate. What was who was he I'll pull
• 32:11
  Joyce. Yeah, John Mackey Robinson in
• 32:13
  there as well. They're going to come in and
• 32:15
  they are going to give you something really special in
• 32:17
  terms of Direction. But you can't sustain that at
• 32:20
  all but you know as well, if they were all that good, no one
• 32:23
  would stand out with die whereas this one really does stand out
• 32:28
  or God. Yes,