Latest / The Charity Changemakers Podcast / Season 3 | E3 Kit Powney on AI, digital strategy and the future of charities
Transcript
- Adam Stacey: Really pleased to have Kit joining us on the Charity Changemakers podcast this week. Thanks so much for coming on. Kit Powney: Thank you so much for having me. It's really brilliant to be here. Adam Stacey: great to have you on the show. like I say, most of the shows, can never do justice to an introduction. So I always like people to do that, do that themselves. So yeah, take a minute or so to introduce who you are and what you do. Kit Powney: Yeah, so hello, I am Kit Powney. I work as head of digital maturity at Tier Fund. And for those of who don't know Tier Fund, we're an international development agency. We work directly with local partners in underserved communities in around about 50 countries to tackle poverty. of digital maturity, might be asking what ⁓ that job title mean? I'm ⁓ work sort of an in-house consultant around how can we best use digital technology to help us achieve our goals across the organization. Adam Stacey: really want to dive into that during the show today about what digital transformation, what that means for organizations ⁓ and how listeners that listen to the show today will be coming from a whole range of organizations. Digital means so many different things to so many different people. Yeah, we'd love to just to unpick more of that and I guess some of the tools that are people's fingertips that they could be using. But before we get into all of the big stuff, we have a... quickfire questions that we like to ask guests as they come on the show. ⁓ The first one for this season ⁓ is what does a good weekend or a day off look like ⁓ you? Kit Powney: ⁓ definitely being outside, whether it's sort of with the kids in the woods and they're getting absolutely covered in mud and the dog's having a time of his life, or sort of hiking and exploring new places, but probably with a pub lunch at the end as well. Adam Stacey: Yeah, perfect. Yes, that's right indeed. And there's plenty of muddy puddles around at the moment to enjoy. So, that's great. And what's something small that brings you a disproportionate amount of joy? Kit Powney: Yeah. This is probably slightly boring, but we got a coffee grinder and we've been buying higher quality coffee beans and that first coffee in the morning, sort of 20 minutes before the kids and the chaos, just sitting quietly and having a really nice cup of coffee fills me with deep joy. Adam Stacey: No, not boring at all. can't relate, but ⁓ my colleagues, Catherine and Nick, watched a lyrical about good coffee. So they'll be pleased to hear that, for sure. So that's good. And this last question, I mean, probably with your job title, there's probably lots of things ⁓ could be ⁓ the answer to this question. ⁓ what's one ⁓ that people always assume about your job that just isn't true? Kit Powney: you Probably that I know everything about technology all the time. Yeah, digital transformation and digital technology and sort of the associated cultures of innovation and being data driven. It's huge and it's rapidly changing all the time. So I do have a lot of knowledge, but I'm not an absolute expert on every single piece of it. Adam Stacey: I think it's fair enough because there's just so much in like you say so fast-paced. yeah, that's great. Good. So ⁓ now know you a little bit better, is brilliant. But yeah, so tell us, how did you get into the charity sector? How did it all start for ⁓ Kit Powney: Listen. Yeah, I started with an internship at Christian Aid. I was in the London team, but ⁓ I really, really wanted to get a job in sort of political campaigning advocacy space. I was ⁓ motivated by seeing sort of the impact you could make through political change, sort of policy change, ⁓ just in the UK, but globally. So I started as an intern, but I had my sights on the campaigns team from day one. Adam Stacey: With an intern role, that, I don't know how these programs were set up then, was that sort of moving around different departments, trying different things out? How did that sort of work? Kit Powney: So that role more particularly, Christian Aid had lots of different regional offices. I was based in the London one, which was also their headquarters. And so it was good to be able to get to know essentially all the different teams and what they were doing. But my role was more to sort of public speaking, fundraising events, getting people to engage with all the different asks that Christian Aid had on, whether they were sort of more advocacy side ones or joining in with Christian Aid fundraising week. Adam Stacey: Yeah, so lots of opportunities to try different or experience different parts of the organisation. And I guess some of those cogs that helping charitable organisations turn day by day. But you say you had your sort of sights on the advocacy team. Kit Powney: Yeah, yeah, probably from day one, I was like, Hello, really passionate about this. Can I just help you out? I don't mind doing extra hours. And definitely within my sort of intern time, if there was an opportunity to do anything within that space, if they needed people to help out, was a major, was like very available ⁓ and engaged that then at the end of the year when sort of a job came up in the team as the assistant. I already had really strong relationships and also like an understanding of what they were looking at and had built some more experience through my interning that I actually had something to talk about in the interview. Adam Stacey: Was that a successful interview? that kind of a yes, Yes. Okay. Good for you. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So that was kind of that step then into the advocacy side, the stuff that you wanted to, ⁓ well, where you thought the start of your career was going to be. And what did that look like? Kit Powney: It was a successful interview, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So different from week to week. So there was definitely the assistant side and interesting, like looking back now, this sort of transformation work I did do even just as an assistant, a lot of sort of optimizing processes and helping more the sort of regional staff with their data processes and helping them use that in more sophisticated ways. But also just because like with political campaigning you go with sort of news cycle or the parliamentary calendar every week would be all sorts of different things. So it's really a lot of fun, busy, ⁓ also like meeting supporters or going to parliament. was, yeah, it was a really fun time and campaign stance like very fun, sort of rocking up and dressed in all sorts of things outside parliament. Adam Stacey: Yes, yeah. Well, that feels like this should be a story there to tell it surely. Kit Powney: If I once did by mistake in, I won't name the MP, injure an MP. I was at a door greeting them coming into an event in Parliament and I was excited to meet this individual because I think they're great. And I walked forward to do shaking hand and I did not realise I knocked over a very large metal umbrella stand that then hit them in the shin. ⁓ And they were like, ⁓ it's okay, I'm okay. Adam Stacey: Yes. Hold it ⁓ Kit Powney: I was like... I've just injured an MP. they were very kind and very lovely about it. yeah, ⁓ was one of my embarrassing moments. ⁓ Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for sharing. I appreciate the vulnerability on the podcast. That's great. I think one of the things obviously we want to do with the podcast is really ⁓ the charity sector and the opportunity that it brings to people working ⁓ it. And, ⁓ know, to be that early in your career and having those opportunities, I guess, you know, exposure to so many different things. ⁓ I just think it's an incredible career path that people just haven't even thought about or considered. But straight away, you're getting exposure and you're going to visit Houses of Parliament and interacting in those types of spaces. ⁓ Yeah, it's a really exciting, like you say, fun time and fun career place. Kit Powney: Yes, definitely. And it is really varied. think, especially within the charity sector, there's a lot of sort of sharing, it's quite open. you know, there's lots of events where people are sharing best practices with them, and then another charity takes in, ⁓ it. ⁓ I think particularly within campaigning, because often you're working on similar issues. So then you're sort of pulling resource, working together having like, weekly or even monthly meetings around how are we going to mobilize our audience and your audience, and we're going to do this. big protest in London, or we're going to have 500 people meet their MPs, or, you know, we're going to go outside PepsiCo and do this thing. And so also, I think, even just seeing other charities and how they work and what they're how they're operating and how you do work in that larger sort of mobilization model. I think that was also really insightful. ⁓ And you learn a lot really quick and even just sort of engaging with journalists ⁓ ⁓ about how within a sort of theory of change, all the different audiences you need to target and how you might do that. And yeah, it was lot of quite jumping in at the deep end, but I learned a lot very quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. That exposure, like you say, it's a of that sink or swim type environment. And do you think there were, you know, supporting you, you, clearly the opportunities that you would get in there at ChristianAid, but with, I don't know, whether there was particular line managers or mentors or, I don't know, training qualification, things that were helping you, you know, learn and soak that all up. Kit Powney: Yeah, so there's, there's a couple of sort of charity courses around campaigning and advocacy. And Christian was really intentional about sending staff on there making sure they were sort of supported and well trained. But also, I think the managers I had when I was in the team were really and encouraging. So very much ⁓ sort of you're the campaign assistant, I'm going to dump everything on you. But yes, you obviously need to do that work. But to become a campaign officer, you need to have this experience. Like, why don't you support X on this? Or do you want to shadow them on that? Or do you want to stay in campaigns? Or do you to go more into the policy or the government side? And so I think just having someone that was really actively pushing that was helpful and gave me a mindset as well to be thinking about growth constantly. So I moved up in the team quite quickly as well. And then just had lots of opportunities, which I think was really, really brilliant. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think when organisations see that energy and aptitude in people, then the charity sector is one of those where you can actually progress your career quite quickly and like you say, move up that career ladder. So campaigning, advocacy, that's kind of where it all begins. What happens next in your career journey then? Kit Powney: did I land in digital strategy is what you're really asking. ⁓ Adam Stacey: Well, feels, I mean, feels like quite a leap. ⁓ Yeah, but like you say, you're already, you know, in the data in there. But yeah, yeah, yeah, go on. And how do we get there? Kit Powney: Yeah. Yeah, how did we get there? And so when I was working that I started to enjoy, because there's a whole variety of things that you might be doing when you're working in campaigning. I started to really enjoy sort of the communication space, and sort of optimizing testing and really playing around in that space and being creative and figuring out how could you sort of keep pushing engagement and target so I started leaning more towards digital and comms and I ended up doing an MA at Westminster University on media campaigning and social change, which is a masters that sort of brings together best social change practice, theory of change, political, all sorts of stuff with communications best practice. So it's like a real merge of an MA, it's brilliant. I actually sit on the advisory panel now and do bit of guest lecturing, which is always fun to go back. But that again, just sort of really helped me see more sort of the power of communication, how to do communication well. I just find it really engaging. actually at the end of that MA, that's when I moved to, no actually I'd already been at TIRFund, I was doing some campaigning there as well. TIRFund had a new job which was sort of the digital content and engagement manager. And I went for it I got it. And that was sort of a new role for them thinking about content strategy. thinking about sort of organizational needs, audience needs, how do we sort of build all that in to the communication space? that was sitting across fundraising and advocacy. So I'd ⁓ out ⁓ I was looking at. ⁓ then slowly sort of through that, ⁓ I was doing digital strategy, I then sort of just moved more into, I head of digital content for a little while. And that was across like all the creative digital people, email, channel managers, all of that. But again, really looking at sort of optimize how can we continue to sort of push best practice. And so sort of naturally just led me into this digital transformation space. So initially sort of fundraising comms, how can we ensure that we're using those tools best to help staff and resource and share to fund the story and get engagement. then naturally, as you start to do that, you look at the rest of the organization because data is a key building block and innovation and what's the culture. So sort of slowly. drifted into it, the deeper I got into strategy. Adam Stacey: Well, you say drifting, but I guess it's a powerful set of skills and experience, isn't it? From the program delivery to the fundraising to the comms, to then thinking about digital and how that affects the whole life cycle of an organization. I mean, it's a fairly unique set of experience and skill sets actually for the sector today. So what does that kind of, I don't know, what does it look like in a day to day for you in your role? I mean, I'm sure that no two days ever do look the same, but... Kit Powney: ⁓ Hmm. Adam Stacey: You know, you think about digital transformation in such a big organization. Kit Powney: Yes, so I would say very varied. the fundraising comm space, you know, there's, actually, if I look at the whole organization, there is the key foundations and building blocks we are sort of working on trying to build. In turn, we've got good data, it's easily accessible. ⁓ understand it. So we do a lot of work around sort of digital literacy as well. ⁓ then also thinking the broader things of, you know, how can we ensure where... financially stable, how can we ensure we're using our resources well, how can we ensure we're keeping staff their skills up to date? So a large part of my work currently is thinking about AI and responsible adoption of AI. And those conversations are ⁓ week I can be talking with ⁓ programmatic team about how we could use AI as an early warning system for disaster reduction to them with planning and preparation. ⁓ And then another day I might be thinking about how could we use AI to help with sort of personal team productivity or just email replying. Or another day thinking about, you know, what does AI mean for our procurement and potential agencies and companies we work with or, you know, what about ethical storytelling? And so there's, there's a lot, ⁓ it's very wide of varying. I think because technology is moving so fast right now. conversation is also moving quite quickly. Adam Stacey: for organizations that have got roles like yours, kind of helps keep, well, I was going to say ahead of the curve, but at least on the curve. I don't know where you would be, but I guess for a lot of organizations, it's, yeah, it feels, I guess it can feel quite overwhelming, can't it? The sort of technology and digital world at the moment. yeah, mean, Blimey, where do you start? I guess for a lot of organizations is the question that they're asking when it comes to all of these different technologies and particularly around AI, right, because that's something that just everybody's talking about absolutely everywhere. Kit Powney: Yeah, I think you've really got the good question there. ⁓ I do, I work for TIF on two days a week and then I actually do consulting two days a week. So I've got five year old twins. So the flexibility works well for us as a family. ⁓ within that time, a lot of the work I'm doing is similar sort of looking at digital strategies for organizations, thinking about how they can best use digital technology. And a lot of the time they're smaller organizations. So Yeah, they don't have a role like mine, whereas at TIFF and I'd already been working on digital transformation, we had a roadmap. know, we had areas that we were really working on sort of leadership, innovation, ⁓ literacy data, those are key building blocks that we thought would release more sort of scale and innovation if you're thinking about the adoption scale for digital transformation. So when AI sort of popped onto the mass market, we already had a lot of sort of meetings that we could it like add that conversation into, had a digital strategy. So we're thinking about what's the positioning of it. We already have a view of how we use digital technology. Whereas some of the other organizations I'm thinking of will be using, if they're thinking about digital transformation scale and potentially where AI sits on that, there may be still a how, what's the role of technology for our organization? Do we want it on the delivery end? Do we want it just in comms? Is it about making operations better? And then you sort of add AI onto that and I think it can feel quite overwhelming. I think my probably my biggest piece of advice or the thing I find myself repeating a lot to organizations is digital technology is there are so many opportunities for you as an organization and but I think starting with strategy first is really important so that you end up doing something that's going to add value to your organization not just following what an exciting thing you've sort of seen, whether it's a conference or just from another organization. And the way that I often frame it is talking about if your car is the organization, it's traveling towards your charitable goal. The digital technology or AI is almost the super fuel that you can put in it, but you need to make sure it's the right fuel. It's not diesel and petrol or petrol and And the way that I often frame it is talking about if your car is the organization, it's traveling towards your charitable goal. The digital technology or AI is almost the super fuel that you can put in it, but you need to make sure it's the right fuel. It's not diesel and petrol or petrol and diesel. So and starting to think about what would it look like to add value? diesel. So and starting to think about what would it look like to add value? is a really brilliant place for people to start. And I'd encourage smaller organizations as well, that actually, ⁓ can probably leapfrog quite quickly. Whereas I think larger organizations, because there's so much sort of legacy, tech, culture, just sheer amount of people, ⁓ sort of speed of decision making, ⁓ can actually take longer, whereas smaller organizations, you can be more agile and move more quickly. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. There's just so much noise isn't there about, ⁓ this is the best product. So you need to do this or you got to go there. I think it can be difficult. I mean, I know this is outside of outside of charity, but it's like the big recruitment conference next week ⁓ in London. I was looking at the agenda yesterday. Every session is about AI or a new AI product that's going to make the difference in this in this sector. And then, I think, you know, for charities, they're seeing the same things. Like you say, it's really difficult to know where to start. But ultimately, what you're saying is Kit Powney: and Adam Stacey: think about the strategy and is this going to add value or is it going to help us reach our charitable aims quicker, more efficiently, better? Kit Powney: Yeah, definitely. And there is also sort of a Venn diagram I often show people and talk to people about. And the first circle is sort of strategic alignment. So any use of technology needs to align with your strategy and really clearly show whether it's enabling or actually delivering a piece or assisting or, you know, have a really clear alignment to whether it's income or advocacy or operational efficiency or whatever the objective is. And then the next circle is sort of values. So what are organizational values and how can you ensure that any technology you adopt aligns with that? I think that's probably more of a tricky conversation to sort of eke out and pull. And sometimes when I'm doing workshops with people, so sort of further AI and comm space, I'll have like a series of statements that are slightly provocative because it will then pull out the conversation of, what do we mean by ethical adoption? What do we mean by ethical storytelling? Is it... editing someone's clothes with AI, or is it just extending the background so it fits on a web page? To pull out those tensions. And then the final circle is human-centered. At what level are you happy to allow AI assisted or technology automation? And where is an absolute red line for you that human engagement needs to be there, or human responsibility or oversight? But I think those three questions, once you have answers to them, it can also really help you when you're looking at this whole plethora of tools, actually where do we want to employ it and where are we not comfortable? Adam Stacey: That's a really helpful start for what feels, like you say, a ⁓ terrifying set of decisions for organizations to make, but actually centering back on where you want to get to and how things might be able to assist is absolutely, I guess, fair anything that has been discussed, a good starting point for any organization. And I guess when we talk about digital transformation, ⁓ guess sometimes you get caught up in the digital, right? ⁓ actually this is about bringing transformation. I mean, I don't know from obviously places that you've worked or places that you've consulted, whether there's some good examples of how the digital has brought about that transformation, whether that, I don't know, whether it's a program or a fundraising campaign, whether there's something that sort of springs to mind and say, well, actually, this is a really good example of something that we've been able to implement that's had great outcomes, brilliant impact. Kit Powney: Yes, I think that's probably two sided. One is slightly less tangible, but I think it's really important. And that is around with any sort of level of digital transformation, there will be someone leading it and driving it and building the momentum. But ultimately, because you're looking for whole organization transformation, there needs to be a very deep level of adoption. And there's a book called Digital Mindset, which is great. There's two podcasts on it as well. can't be bothered to read the whole book. But it talks about how the aim is essentially to get everyone in the organization at like 30 % fluency. So their sort of idea is, if you're learning a new language, you can get around the country with 30%. So in the space of digital transformation, because it is so wide and varied, and you people might have fear about they don't know, they don't get things wrong, don't have cybersecurity issue or data protection. So they sort of just avoid it and let the tech people do it. But you're only going to reach so far in your transformation because the tech people don't understand the context of your fundraiser or your program person who's delivering sort of water and sanitation programmatic work. So you need to be able to empower them to take their seat at the table so that they don't need to know what a coder does, but they need to know the opportunities that a coder might bring. So then they can sort of bring ideas that then the technical people can deliver or or software or essentially maybe even do themselves. So at Tiffin we've been working a lot on digital mindset and I think with our adoption of AI, know, we've been doing governance and policies and this sort of structure that we need in place and working groups and roadmaps and all of that. But the whole time we've been delivering workshops as well on how to use it and through those workshops have actually become sort of the best ideas of things that we're then building and actually investing in broadly more than sort of individual productivity or team and operational efficiency. So I would, if you're looking at digital transformation, helping everyone adopt sort of a digital mindset to be able to see the opportunities in the organization are really valuable. Also then people are brought into them. So they're more likely to be successful. You you've got better insight because it's coming from the team and you can bring sort of the technical expertise to do it safely or to increase it. That's one. And then on the other side, I would probably say sort of testing and experimenting optimization. So again, if we're coming back to sort of fundraising space, we've been doing a lot of that across our digital channels. And I think that's where we've seen the biggest shift in sort of actual engagement, income, amount of money coming in, like through optimizing sort of like. web pages or web forms. so I think really sort of pushing into that, we did training on it and we've really been sort of investing in it and making space for it. And that's where we've seen the actual sort of increase in ROL. I like the hard line. Yes, this is more followers that are engaged at X level. Adam Stacey: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's the important thing, right? I guess, you know, for any organizations trying to justify, you know, the work that it's doing is either it's an increase, it, on impact in, like, say, in program delivery or an increase on that bottom line, that return on investment in a fundraising team. Yeah, I I reflect on some of the tools that we've got at our hands now. would loved to have had some of this stuff when I was a, you know, fundraising director and, ⁓ you know, even some of the really simple things like, you know, how, you know, time saving. that AI can bring right through to the automations on, know, my, you know, our CRM system here constantly reminded me of things that happening that I need to do on that, on the day that makes me look a lot more efficient than I think, than I clearly am. You just think those types of tools, really small things, know, sending reminders into my inbox that, know, of things that need to be done that day, just make a huge, huge difference. can be, ⁓ doesn't need to be this big, massive transformation pieces. It can be small. Kit Powney: you Adam Stacey: yeah, really small things that we can automate or bring that transformation, is really interesting. And I think those are the things that probably for smaller organizations as well are kind of out there at the fingertips ⁓ well. Kit Powney: Yeah, I think another thing I often say is start with what you have. So most people are on sort of Microsoft or Google and they have a lot of technology already bedded in across all their products. So actually just getting to grips with those and using them well. those both that, know, both Microsoft and Google have lots of free training. So again, it's not a huge expense. It's just making sure you've got the capacity and that people are sitting down and doing it or you're doing it as a group or. you're going to an event where Microsoft are talking or Google are talking, but there's loads of opportunity there to just start experimenting. And the more you start to play, then you will start to see more opportunities, see the risks as well, and understand more of them and have that critical thinking around the tools. with what you have. Most of the tools, like you say, CRM and the software that we've also procured as organizations, they are all investing in AI because they want to have the best product on the market and be able to sell that they've got AI assisted. X, Y, and Z and it's going to help your team and deliver the bottom line and deliver impact. So also the tools that you already have will be being developed. They'll have AI within them and more stuff will be coming. So again, keep playing with those things as well. And like the last point you said as well around even just the small things that can make a really big difference. Sometimes I think with transformation work, it's got to be bigger, it's got to be better. Yeah, it's going to impact the whole organization. But sometimes that actually really waters down the product or the thing you're doing. And then it's actually not that helpful. But if you keep it small, then even if you're not scaling it to the whole organization, the impact it can have is still incredibly important as well. I think don't get caught up in scaling and things having to scale. It's brilliant if they can, of course. yes, don't have to scale to add real value to an organization or an individual. ⁓ Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, actually, as I reflect on my my journey of using AI ⁓ outside of work on an individual personal thing, I put all of my school communications, two children, one at secondary school, at primary school, ⁓ put all the communication, what is it that I actually need in this long letter? Or what will make diet or just can you put this in the diary? The things that you my children's in my son's in year five, can you give me what I actually need to put in my diary? Because you get so much information that's coming at you. Kit Powney: and Adam Stacey: Just from a administrative point of view, it's made a huge difference to us not forgetting World Book Day, Inset Days, because we are those parents that sent our kids to school in the wrong uniform on the wrong day or turn up to school on an Inset Day. And it's transformed ⁓ some of those small things on that side. So yeah, I guess even on the day to day, there's benefits that they can be using. Like you say, just in those really small Yeah, small uses of it, which I'm sure is all transferable across into our work life as well. Kit Powney: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Because if you think about how much everyone does, but most people are not hired for their admin skills, most people hired for their expertise, their experience. So if you can use technology to cut out as much admin, and then they're being freed to do the horizon scanning, you know, make the difference that you hired them for, moving forward that piece of work or that area that discipline. ⁓ that's brilliant and it's going to be more fulfilling for the individual because that's what they're passionate about that's why they've trained in it. joined the organization not to fill out many emails and go to many meetings but to ⁓ that role so if it can free up people I think it's a brilliant opportunity. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Although there are still those occasions where you start a Zoom meeting and there's more AI note takers in it than ⁓ there are people. So yes, I have to spend a lot of time kicking things out. yeah, no. I don't know whether this is a fair question or not, Kit, but I mean, or whether you, I don't know whether you know, but what, I mean, kind of, if you look to the horizon, I guess part of your role and, you know, the consultancy stuff that you're doing is, that, you know, looking forward, horizon scanning, what Kit Powney: Bye. Adam Stacey: What's coming next? mean, it's probably quite difficult to predict, is it just, what do you think maybe are some of the opportunities or risks or threats that are on the horizon? Kit Powney: Yeah, that's a huge question. think one change is now constant. And the more resilient you can become yourself and make your teams and your organization, I think the better you will be able to flex to whatever is coming. I often about AI as leaders, sort of it's surfing the wave. are, you know, it's a silver bullet, it's gonna end world hunger and make all of our lives amazing. And we will never need to work because the AI will be doing it. And on the other side, there's real issues with it and challenges and real harm being done by it as well, environmentally and to people. So that's like a real tension to hold. And it's moving so quickly. You can't be up to date on everything. So I have to talk about surfing like you are you are moving with the waves and you're trying to make the best decisions as possible in that. But that's OK. Everyone feels like that in this space. Don't beat yourself up about it. is what the space is like. So one, think there's a piece around change is constant. And whilst we can't fully predict what's coming, think preparing ourselves and our organizations to be able to be agile and flex is going to be valuable work, whatever comes around the corner. And number two, I think there's a lot of talk about sort of autonomous AI, agentic AI. from the space of us prompting each step of ⁓ or working with Gemini or Chatt GPT or Claude or whatever the tool is that you're using into space where you've given an AI tool a task and it will complete it without checking in with you. And I that has lots of real potential for good. Because again, ⁓ there will be lots of stuff that is very low risk in organizations that someone is currently manually doing that you could set up. And some of it's not even AI, some of it's just better automation and using data well sort of run and that, again, that would just remove and save time and be brilliant. I think there's a slight fear around that of how much ⁓ And then I think especially if you're in an organization where you're like a charity and you're focused ⁓ is on people, you definitely don't want to cause any harm through that. you know, what is the right layer and level of using that opportunity to help where we've all got, you know, income is hard, cost of living crisis equals cost of giving crisis, you know, everyone's capacity is quite low. So it does feel like a brilliant opportunity, but I think being able to do that well. I have seen lots of places sort of in the private sector where people are using it and Even there was one company I heard of that was giving bonuses for people that made an agent. So every agent you made, like added to your bonus where, because if you think, you know, 10 years ago, it's landing a big contract, got you a bonus. So it sort of shows the value that the private sector is placing on agentic work because it's able to deliver so much more. And I think the big question sort of for the charity sector isn't sort of, we use it? Cause it's being built into everything, but how can we use it? Well, not, we build it, but should we build it? Adam Stacey: Yeah. Kit Powney: ⁓ is probably more of the questions we're going to be asking over the next few years. Adam Stacey: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we've got to be happy with change and living in it. I guess ⁓ back to your earlier point, though, always drawing that back to how is this helping us get to where we want to be as an organisation ⁓ how is it adding value? yeah, yeah, indeed. Blimey, mind is feeling, ⁓ it's blank. ⁓ It me that not a lot of organisations have got people like you, ⁓ you with... Kit Powney: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Adam Stacey: I mean, obviously, I mean, particularly yourself from the advocacy to the fundraising to the comms to digital piece. And it's a space where I think for organisations where they've got people working in digital, you can see how it's, you know, making great impact in in those organisations. Are we going to see more more of these types of roles, do you think, across the charity sector? And, you know, if people are thinking about getting into this this line of work? Yeah, what are what are good routes into into it? Kit Powney: Good question. I'll take the first one. So think there are lots, I'm seeing lots of roles come up around sort of head of AI or head of data and AI or head of transformation. ⁓ think the change I am starting to see is previously sort of digital transformation was over here, probably starting with your comms and then sort of software and IT you own. But as organizations have become more digital and more remote, technology has moved and is moving at a very rapid pace. And it is actually just changing our ways of working. It's more morphing out of digital transformation, sort of organizational change, sort of operating model, business model. And that's actually starting to redefine. So seeing a lot more senior roles that cover, it's not just sort of IT or the digital team, it's really broadly sort of organizational change and how is that being managed well. technologies sort of infused within it. So not that the word digital transformation is becoming redundant, but I think it's starting to merge into organizational. So I think that in terms of, know, if you're looking to get involved in this space, I think what a lot of it is change management, because it's culture, it's people, you know, I could write a strategy about we're going to adopt all these technologies, and it will fall on its face, unless it's embedded really well in, you know, the culture and Then again, coming back to those three, the Venn diagram of like strategy people values, and it's got really clear impact. It's been shaped by the people around it as well. So I think any sort of working in any sort of change management is a really good way to get in, as well as if there is a particular part of digital transformation you want to get involved in, whether it's sort of innovation and data, more on the tech sort of side or cybersecurity. Again, there's lots of certificates and things you could explore in that space. But I think it is quite wide reaching, which is hopefully encouraging. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, like you say, for people that are moving in this space that have got that solid background in working within the charity sector and within these different departments or different directorates, bringing that all together, think, because you've been constantly talking about ultimately the power of difference that the tools can make to help you either make things more efficient or deliver better services. And clearly, Kit Powney: Mm. Adam Stacey: ⁓ any organisation that's in the charity sector is trying to achieve its mission. So ⁓ lots of really exciting ⁓ that ⁓ here. ⁓ could talk, ⁓ I'm sure, for hours ⁓ this space. ⁓ I guess because it's moving and it's changing all of the time. If, conscious, you you've started this career journey, probably not never expecting to be working in a digital transformation space where you are now. But if you could go back to your to yourself, I guess, in those early days at Christian Aid ⁓ and yourself a piece of advice or, you ⁓ know, to your younger self or say, actually, this is just something that would be really good to hang on to through your career or, ⁓ yeah, ⁓ inspired by or just ⁓ supported What do you think you go back and say to your younger self at the start of your career. Kit Powney: think it would probably be around, I sort of just touched on it, but around people. And because a lot of my roles have actually been new roles, so it's been sort of carving out and shaping space. So you've got sort of pre existing ways of working pre existing culture, relationships, all of that. And it's probably spend more time listening to people than you think you need to. And just the sitting. I think a lot of the time we've probably because of various expertise, you've got like 70 % of a really good idea. But what makes it absolutely brilliant and the right thing for the organisation, just not a good idea, is that listening. And that helps you shape it, think about how it's going to land. And some of that's the campaigning skills as well, thinking you are effectively delivering a change and you need to reach a tipping point like you would in a campaign. So it's about mobilising. But yeah, the more you listen to people, the better you understand not just the practical, like tactical operations of what needs to change to embed this. But you know, what's what the emotions around it? What's the fear around it? What's the culture? What are the assumptions? What's the knock on effect? And I think just spending as much time as possible sitting and listening to people is really where you actually see the difference. Adam Stacey: We spent 40 minutes talking about digital transformation and technology and AI. But actually, of the most important parts of your role is about bringing people together and then seeing about how these tools can then make impact and make difference. ⁓ Ultimately, it back to that human to human ⁓ and importance that's placed on that relationship and supporting people through change because change is like we say, it's here to stay. Kit, that's been absolutely brilliant to spend time chatting to you. I assume that you're happy that we sort of, when we put this out, that we tag you up on LinkedIn. If people have got questions or want to reach out, you're happy to hear from them. And yeah, I mean, it's going to be a fascinating to see how these tools and digital transformation continues to impact the sector and the changes that are coming. And yeah, blind me, who knows what will be in two years time, right? And what will be at our fingertips. Kit Powney: Yeah. This will actually be our own robots doing this in two years. Adam Stacey: Yeah, that's right. Indeed. Well, you say that it's, yeah, I mean, blind me with the the with the podcast software that we use, I can literally type, I can type in a script now. And it can play it back to me in my voice, which is, which is crazy and frightening, ⁓ petrifying ⁓ also ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ in one. yeah, absolutely. Yeah, indeed. Okay, like I say, it's been brilliant to have you on the show. Thanks for joining us. Kit Powney: Brilliant, thank you so much. I really appreciated it.