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Brandon (From The Starting Nowhere Podcast) | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #85 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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  It's another episode of the Christian we've podcast.
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  But are you subscribed? If not make sure to like, share
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  and subscribe, spread the word about the Christian Reef podcast
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  and enjoy this episode. Hello and welcome to another
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  episode of the Christian we've podcast.
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  Today's guest is a podcaster hailing all the way from Miami
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  Florida is known as Brandon from the starting nowhere podcast.
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  Welcome to the show Brandon Hayden and then the dream man.
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  Thank you very much for having me on this what here is a bright
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  sunny morning but I think it's like midday for you.
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  It is but it's also very beautiful here too.
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  I can't I can't complete its deceptively Sonny.
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  So when you go outside it's freezing.
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  So beautiful, I don't know. Like, I mean, normally when I'm
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  doing the podcast, specially with American guests, I have to
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  start closing the drapes Because by the time we finished, it'll
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  be like dark and stuff, but I don't know it's getting a lot
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  lighter here, seems to only go dark by about 6:00 or 7:00 in
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  the evening now, which is kind of crazy.
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  But yeah, weirdly, weirdly cold because we had two days in the
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  end of March early April that were like Indian summer and now
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  back to freezing again. So yeah, Whether the more the
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  older I get the more the weather becomes unpredictable.
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  I feel like and I feel like when I was younger, I knew what it
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  was going to be outside based upon the month and everything
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  like that. Now I have no idea.
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  I've only lived here in Miami Florida for the past 18 inch
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  months coming up on two years here in the next few months.
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  And you can look outside and it's Miami.
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  So it's always beautiful. But then you go outside and you
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  have no idea what's actually going to fill out like based
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  upon windchill and all these other things than.
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  So I don't like that. I don't like that part of aging
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  that I can't predict the weather and that's annoying to me.
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  This is interesting because you'll see mentioned off camera
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  that you're originally from Ohio.
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  But yeah, you've moved in Miami, it's 18 months, you've got a
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  fresh perspective. So if I ask you this question, I
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  normally ask guests, you're not you're not going to give me
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  that. Oh well, I grew up there.
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  So I hated it kind of. Yeah.
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  So what, what do you think of Miami?
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  What are the good and bad parts about living there?
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  What's it like? Well obviously, I've lived in
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  Miami on your unique circumstances because as I said,
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  my timeline is only about 6 months, prior to the pandemic
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  and everything. Kind of shutting down, but if
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  you watch the news you may have seen that Miami didn't
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  necessarily shut down the same way.
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  That a lot of places around the world did which gives you a
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  different perspective, but what I'll say is this, I've lived a
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  different a handful of places over the course of my life right
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  now, I'm 35. Miami is easily the most
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  beautiful place I've ever lived. You were talked about from a
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  pure visual perspective, both in the city and just a natural
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  topography. If you will, because I live
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  right next to the water. So I can look out my window
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  right now and there's the ocean and that's As a kid from Ohio,
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  as you just said that's never going to stop being weird to me
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  because that's not what I'm used to at.
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  All right. But as far as living here in
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  Miami, I do think there's a lot of challenges that I don't
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  necessarily enjoy. I don't think the people are the
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  friendliest nor are, is the, I guess the way that people behave
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  here, and I think I guess not necessary something I'm in mine
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  would because I didn't know this before moving here and I should
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  have, that's my own. I have T I guess.
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  But Miami's kind of got a Vegas vibe to it almost and it's all
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  about excess. It's about partying, it's about
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  your outward appearance. And I don't mean like
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  physically, I mean like your car, like the clothes you wear
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  and all these things. It's very superficial in that
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  way and it comes with some goods and some give me some positives
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  and negatives to that. But I think overall I would say
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  that Miami is not a place. I would have chosen to live I'm
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  here because my girlfriend is working on her PhD.
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  And so we had to move here for her to go finish up school.
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  So we'll be here for a couple more years, most likely but
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  there's worse places. There's certainly worse places,
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  okay? And on the days though, you
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  like, I can't wait to get away from here.
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  Or is it more just like me? I kind of picked up this
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  perspective. When I was in the military to
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  try to enjoy places for where that what they are, you know,
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  not to try to go there and be like, oh, this isn't what I
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  want, or this isn't what I'm used to, so I don't enjoy it,
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  right? So, it's sort of like, if you
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  travel. Like, I went to London, right?
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  Before we moved here for a couple of days, and I'm not
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  gonna go to London and like, oh, it's not like America.
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  I hate this. No, you go there for what London
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  is, right? And so I'm trying to enjoy Miami
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  for what it is. Well, and so there's certain
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  aspects of it that I haven't got to enjoy as much because like I
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  said Miami is very much about going out about going to do
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  things whether it's eating working out or whatever you're
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  always out if people don't really cook here they don't like
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  stay at home very often so I haven't got to enjoy it for that
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  too much yet so I'm not counting on the days and counting down
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  the days until we get vaccinated and then we can go out and do a
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  few things or whatever. Which coincidentally you hit the
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  jackpot I guess today, I get my first dose so it's a very good
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  day for me. Oh good, good luck with I've
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  already had my first as well. And glad to sort of get that out
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  of the way and so head towards the direction of normality, like
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  it's interesting because in the UK, we rolled it out quite
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  extensively. And then I noticed that maybe
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  once a three or four weeks afterwards, America started
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  doing it, but it's really good. I think it's a really positive
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  thing because I mean The UK, you know, it's pretty, it's easier
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  to do it because obviously just naturally the size and studying
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  distribution, everything like that.
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  But the UK, I mean, it's sorry, the USA has vast generally, it
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  takes a lot longer. So some obviously that kind of
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  roll out is naturally going to take longer but it's a yeah it's
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  good to see that you guys are doing that too and we're getting
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  ever so closer to Freedom or whatever The New Normal is going
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  to be, I'm very anxious about that.
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  But at the same time, I know it's always better than just
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  perpetually being in a lockdown where it isn't, it?
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  Absolutely. I'm very excited for what the
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  next phase looks like because my girlfriend is an epidemiologist
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  by trade. So it's been a very useful
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  person to have around during all this, you know, because I don't
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  have to try to filter through the Facebook news or anything
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  like that. I know that I have somebody who
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  exactly knows how these things go and everything.
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  So I think the good thing for us to get the vaccine is that we
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  can actually start to do some stuff.
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  We're not going to go crazy and like do Do a bunch of stuff like
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  we normally would or at everything but we can like now
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  actually go out to eat if we want to in a certain restaurant
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  that has the certain spacing and all that type of stuff, right?
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  We can start to do some of the things that we've been limiting
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  ourselves on. And again, like I said, right?
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  Because she's in PHD programs, so she's been very very busy
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  right before everything started to shut down, like all they
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  closed. All businesses.
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  Everything is was one of the first days we actually got to go
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  out and do some stuff because she had start to figure out the
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  pattern of her schooling and we were able to enjoy yourself a
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  little bit like a week before that and then everything shut
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  down. So now we meeting Back into the
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  house after her being in the house with her face in the book,
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  you know, for six, seven months and everything.
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  So it was the same when I moved here to Manchester like I moved.
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  So I'd been living in Europe for three years and I moved back to
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  the UK in February 20. 20, if you can believe that, I very
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  briefly went and saw my family in London.
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  And then I moved up here to Manchester and it was kind of
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  correct like to because I didn't have much time to focus on the
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  news because I was like, ahh, Aah.
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  I need to find a place to live and I need to find a job and
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  just panic panic. So I didn't really and also as
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  living in this horrible hostile, at the time as well, very
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  briefly. So yeah, my mind wasn't really
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  focused on world, you know, epidemic and In fairness, it
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  wasn't as prevalent here in the news, in the UK, as it was
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  everywhere else, it was, it was kind of like the time.
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  The Prime Minister wasn't taking it as seriously, it was like,
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  yeah, you know, you don't worry about it.
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  And then I'm seeing month later, it's like we're shutting this
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  down. So it's yeah.
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  But anyway so I'd been out like twice still to this day, I've
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  only been out like twice maybe three times Max in Manchester.
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  So as far as that nightlife and what it's actually about to live
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  here, I've barely seen anything in an entire year and the only
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  stuff I've really seen has been through my volunteer work, but
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  that's mostly just delivering and collecting furniture from
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  people and giving out donations and stuff, which isn't.
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  I mean, you sort of see the city from a visual perspective, but
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  you don't see the city living if you do.
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  And I mean, it's like this would be City but asleep.
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  So you be interesting to see how it looks post covid.
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  I think what you're seeing right now for a lot of cities again
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  Miami that will stand them because anybody who's seen the
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  news and saw Miami spring break. Anything like that?
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  No, my nose. My aim is a little bit different
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  than the rest of the world. But I think other cities if you
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  saw them right now or it's kind of like going there on a holiday
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  like a major holiday where And it's kind of close and people
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  are with their families, anything like that.
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  That's kind of what it feels like right now because you go to
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  these different cities and you don't get to see the hustle and
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  bustle. You don't get to see what the
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  culture is actually like, you kind of see it in a sleep mode.
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  Just like you said. Absolutely.
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  Absolutely. But, you know, I think we are
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  very close to the end of all this and actually just changing
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  the subject. But yeah, I think it's
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  interesting how we took it about living in Florida and Miami and
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  living in. Places like Las Vegas.
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  Like I remember when I visited Las Vegas as part of a brief
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  trip to America. I remember thinking that like, I
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  couldn't quite believe that people live in Las Vegas.
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  One thing to visit a place the same.
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  We're London. People always, especially
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  foreigners. Always be like, wow, London's
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  are mate. Like, for example, I remember
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  there were people that I went to UNI with that were European that
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  I told like are no longer living in, London, I moved away years
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  and years ago, like I would never go back and they're like,
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  why would you leave London? Oh my God, London's.
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  Amazing. And it's like, yeah, try growing
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  up there, and working there, and living.
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  That's a very different story, like people romanticize living
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  in places. And then the actuality of that
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  situation is very different and I imagine it's kind of the same
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  with, you know, Miami like the world's perspective and what
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  Miami is, my name is the city, the party, it's great.
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  They based GTA Vice City on Miami, come on, how could you
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  not love it and then you live there, and it's like, it's very
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  different, the date it, because that's the thing, that's what
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  people forget, is that Having a week holiday is very different
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  to living like three to five years in a place.
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  You know, you see you see everything, you see The Good,
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  the Bad and the Ugly and it's up to you to kind of decide what
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  you're happy with and you're what you're willing to put up
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  with. Because no place in the world is
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  perfect. You know, I do, I fail to
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  believe that anywhere in the world is perfect.
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  There always be like a kind of a toss-up like what are you
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  willing to put up with in your life?
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  Exactly what it is to your point.
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  It's all about the balance of what.
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  Looking for, and what the city has to offer and then if you go
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  even smaller than that, different cities, have small
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  kind of microcosms if you will. Yeah, that you can go to a
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  neighborhood and it's very different than the city at
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  large. And if you only stay in the
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  neighborhood, it may be your perfect setting for everything
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  to be go like one street over and suddenly, it's a whole
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  different vibe, you know, New York City.
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  Boston, a lot of those. Those are a couple of things.
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  I think about here in United States that are like that where
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  they have different neighborhoods that had
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  completely different and that can give you a lot of different
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  feel for And I'm saying, Miami's even similar to that somewhat.
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  Because if you think about when people think about Miami, the
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  number one thing that they say or they think about a South
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  Beach, right, you know, they think about the Miami Beach area
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  which is out 20 30 minutes from where I am and it's completely
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  different. But the only time I even get of
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  Miami South Beach, type 5 is from people who there's a hotel
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  across the street from me, it's people who are staying there to
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  go to South Beach and so they're already in pre party mode and
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  they're like in bikinis or swim trunks or whatever and they're
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  getting ready to go. Do that.
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  So what I tell people when You think about living in a place
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  like Miami, Vegas, London, anywhere you going?
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  It's think about what you were for that week that you were in
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  that place you came and visited. Now imagine a never-ending
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  supply of people who are all coming with that energy and
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  you're just trying to go to work, you're just trying to go
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  get your coffee or something like that and they're stopping
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  and looking at buildings or they're drunk at, 2:00 p.m.
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  whatever that Vibe for that city is that's what it's like to live
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  there. Dealing with those people when I
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  was by eighteen, nineteen, twenty eighteen nineteen, twenty
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  Twenty-One so but free For years, I was working in the
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  supermarket and sorry to my listeners.
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  I know I've spoken about this a million times but this is a new
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  story that they probably never heard.
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  So basically I would often, they'll be there was a really
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  nice part of London called chizik which is basically like
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  average house prices, like 5 million loads of celebrities
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  live there and I worked in this. Yeah, it's a high-end
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  Supermarket but it's still a supermarket and I was not liking
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  life. I was not happy.
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  This was pre-university pre anything.
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  I felt like I just What about language, like, when I'll keep
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  it, I'll keep it PG, throw my life away basically.
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  Yeah, so I was not feeling great about myself and basically I
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  remember distinctly that there was this bridge that I would
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  cross over, it's like a tiny little bridge that was right
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  next to the train station before I got to the High Street and I
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  would often travel in the morning and particularly in the
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  summer when it was like bright and early in the morning, but
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  it's like 5 a.m. and I this would often happen.
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  But I remember there was this one time where there He's really
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  drunk woman likes off her face and literally it was like
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  Changing of the Guard. Like I'm walking over listen to
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  music in kind of, because this is the thing, like I hated that
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  job so much that I was, I had my headphones in blasting, metal
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  music. Trying to kind of psyched myself
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  up for the just everything that I'm going to have to deal with
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  horrible managers horrible customers.
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  You name it, right? So I'm just psyching myself up
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  and getting ready for this, right?
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  And she's coming over and she She's like, oh my God.
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  And she literally says this on the phone and he just crushed me
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  because it would literally epitomized everything that I was
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  feeling at the time. She's like, oh yeah, you know,
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  I'm also having and I'm walking over this bridge right now and
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  all the sad losers are going on their way to the job.
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  And I'm coming back from this party and I'm just like, I am
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  one of those sad losses. It's just that.
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  That is almost poetic in the sense that I could see that as a
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  movie scene, right? Because if you're the main
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  character in this movie and you're feeling that and that the
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  camera angle, everything showing that where you're just down on
• 14:10
  that day and then you get this extra who walked by and she's
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  just in that mode, I could feel that it like this early.
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  That's incredible. It was funny in more recent
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  years. I've been told that I'm a really
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  good Storyteller, right? And I think that I'm stuck
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  because I don't like to give myself compliments, I think
• 14:28
  that's kind of lame and douchey are to remain, humble and modest
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  and stuff, but I do think it's important to recognize your
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  growth when you're getting better at something.
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  And one thing I think over the past two years, as I have got
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  better at telling stories and also because of started doing
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  this, I've got like a series for instance on my YouTube channel
• 14:46
  which is literally, it's called story time.
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  And I tell stories from my life and then I started thinking like
• 14:51
  every time I get in a situation where I interview someone, It
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  yourself or I do a live stream or whatever you know is the
• 14:58
  memory Works in a funny way things jog your memory and
• 15:01
  suddenly stories come out that right there.
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  I've never told that story before you just was jig by.
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  That particular thing that you mentioned and a kid, you got
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  sometimes. I look at certain things that
• 15:11
  have happened in my life and I do think like this would make it
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  interesting movie. I think you could do a movie
• 15:17
  from out of it because some crazy stuff has happened in my
• 15:19
  life and I suppose the interesting thing is that like
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  most people have it, I have had interest in my eyes.
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  It's rare that someone has had a boring life, it's just that you
• 15:28
  might not be able to articulate that will put that into words or
• 15:30
  maybe you're not a great Storyteller or whatever, but I
• 15:33
  think everyone has something or some entertaining stuff they've
• 15:36
  seen or done, or experience the whatever, but it's all about.
• 15:40
  Yeah, trying to kind of tell that in an interesting way,
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  sometimes I'll do a video about something where I think our this
• 15:48
  isn't really that interesting. But, you know, I need to put a
• 15:50
  video where I need to continue this series and then people find
• 15:53
  it interesting. Testing.
• 15:54
  And I'm like, man, like, at the time, it really didn't seem like
• 15:58
  a big deal, but then that's another interesting element to.
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  It, isn't? It is your individual perception
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  of the event that you might think.
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  Oh, that's perfectly normal, or whatever.
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  That's just, you know, everyday. And another person would be
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  like, wow. Oh my God, that's huge.
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  You know, I think you said two things in there that are kind of
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  something that I always think about when it comes to just the
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  one is that people are far more. Interesting than we give
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  ourselves credit for right? Did not.
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  We all know somebody who thinks they're way more interesting
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  than they actually are. Not talking about those
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  individuals but yeah, no. That's the interesting thing.
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  Those people that think they're better than they are.
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  They actually are boring people. Yeah.
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  Because when they tell their story you know that most of
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  their story is a lie. So they they might be like, oh
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  yeah. I went to this Barn.
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  It was amazing like 15 women around me.
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  It was great and it's like no at what happened is probably one
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  girl smoked it him. Yeah, exactly.
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  Just expanded that into To some big lie, your weapon of Lies.
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  I just think I do think that people's lives are far more
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  interesting than we think they are.
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  And then the second part is what you're talking about too.
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  Is that? Because we've lived our own
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  life, they don't see that exceptional to us sometimes
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  because we just do something and they're like, oh yeah, this
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  happened, you know, it's part of my experience.
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  I can't really sensationalize it because I went through it.
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  But then you tell somebody else to like, wait, what happened?
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  Like how did that go down? Like you need to tell me
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  everything because that's the most incredible thing I've ever
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  heard. You're like, oh, that was just a
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  Tuesday for me. It got.
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  And it's not because Has your get?
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  It's not because you're trying to act like I'm just so great.
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  These things having to do with times just because when you're
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  actually experiencing something, your brain doesn't necessarily
• 17:30
  click over into that movie mode where you're watching this.
• 17:33
  So you just experiencing you're trying to deal with it in real
• 17:35
  time and then somewhere down the line you may be like that's
• 17:37
  crazy. I just you know met Halle Berry
• 17:40
  or something like that whatever the thing is for you you know
• 17:42
  you know the anytime any times in my life that have been
• 17:45
  surreal like a movie moment. There's two specific things that
• 17:49
  happen like that, that have happened a lot, right?
• 17:51
  One is, when you go to, like, an amazing Nice.
• 17:54
  Like I felt that way when I was in the Nevada.
• 17:56
  Desert, for instance, I was like, wow, this is amazing.
• 17:59
  This is exactly at the movies. Yeah, I can even remember like
• 18:02
  the feeling of being there and how quiet the wind was and all
• 18:06
  of that, you know, I can feel that, right?
• 18:08
  And then the other thing is when people are so unbelievably rude
• 18:13
  to you that your gobsmacked and you don't know what to say, did
• 18:18
  you just really say that that I could?
• 18:20
  Could you not like the amount of customers are dealt with over
• 18:23
  the years old? Drew people in general.
• 18:25
  That would belittle me stuff that happened at school.
• 18:27
  I remember, just looking back at that and be like, wow, damn, I
• 18:30
  can't believe someone said that to me.
• 18:32
  I probably had the balls to say that to me the audacity to say
• 18:36
  that, but yeah, it's like you say it's individual perception.
• 18:40
  It's your tolerance M. I suppose it sometimes when I
• 18:44
  talk to people about my upbringing or things that
• 18:46
  happened in my teens and stuff people, like that's not normal,
• 18:49
  that's that's a big I'm like, huh?
• 18:52
  That's a, that's a fun face to see.
• 18:53
  By the way, because I've done that what you're telling
• 18:55
  something that seems normal to you and you see somebody's face
• 18:57
  start to change. Like, oh, I'm saying something
• 18:59
  that is very uncommon and they are reactive, like, I thought
• 19:01
  this was normal. Just I don't know where my line
• 19:03
  is here. I've got to really watch this.
• 19:05
  That's what I try to backtrack and you be like, oh yeah.
• 19:07
  But you know, it's fine. Yeah, yeah.
• 19:11
  Like, I love you Mom. But there were some things that
• 19:15
  my mom did that were a bit. let's say over the top bit over
• 19:19
  extreme strict and I would tell friends growing up and they'd be
• 19:23
  like The hotel just staring like, what?
• 19:27
  Yeah, it'll be like, then that stop backtracking to get up.
• 19:31
  Oh yeah. But you know, it's fine.
• 19:32
  She's great. Love her to bits.
• 19:33
  You know, we got on like a house on fire.
• 19:35
  Let's move on, I love those moments.
• 19:40
  Those are fun. Those are really fun but you
• 19:42
  have to have the right group of friends because some people are.
• 19:44
  So I don't want to say conservative necessarily but
• 19:47
  they're just very limited in their experience in their view
• 19:50
  of how the world should be. And so he said to tell him
• 19:52
  stories like that, they Suddenly you completely changed in their
• 19:56
  mind of who you are and your life and your upbringing and
• 19:58
  they judge you based upon that, I'd say he's got to make sure
• 20:01
  you have the right people around you.
• 20:03
  Who can be that open? Who understand that?
• 20:05
  Sometimes crazy stuff happens in life, you know, he avoid people
• 20:07
  like that, like the plague, I'm sorry, but, like, life isn't
• 20:12
  about the things that happen to you, it's about how you react to
• 20:17
  things. Hmm.
• 20:19
  You know what I mean? Like, you can have like, some of
• 20:20
  the people I've met over the years.
• 20:22
  Have had like the craziest most Depressing crazy life stories,
• 20:27
  but they're just the most chill, relax, or some people you'd ever
• 20:30
  meet. And then there's other people
• 20:31
  that have had an easy upbringing and yet, they complain
• 20:34
  perpetually about everything and everything's terrible.
• 20:37
  And then negative about everything and blah blah blah.
• 20:40
  And it's like well I think it really comes down to like what I
• 20:44
  pay attention to now is how people treat other people if
• 20:48
  they show respect. Like, for instance, I mean this
• 20:51
  isn't really that important in the grand scheme of things, but
• 20:53
  it give you Example of what I mean.
• 20:55
  So like when someone like interrupt me when I'm speaking
• 21:01
  that really like, like a noise, like it shouldn't annoy me that
• 21:06
  much because it does happen fairly often.
• 21:09
  And usually what it means is that that person is has no
• 21:11
  interested in hearing what you have to say, they just want to
• 21:14
  be heard, because there's a lot of people like that that are
• 21:17
  just eager tests and they just want to get what they want to
• 21:21
  because they just missing the point.
• 21:22
  Like it every time you speak to One is an opportunity to learn
• 21:25
  from them and grow and see someone's perspective on the
• 21:28
  world. And you know mean like and like
• 21:30
  every time you speak you're just repeating stuff.
• 21:32
  You already know. So you're not gaining anything.
• 21:34
  Like that's why I always prefer to listen rather than speak.
• 21:37
  But I, when I meet those people. Well, okay scenario, let's say
• 21:42
  you ask me a question and I start and begin to give my
• 21:46
  response now, okay. Some people might say question,
• 21:50
  you need to just get to the point.
• 21:51
  You take too long. Well, you know, The English is a
• 21:54
  very expressive language. English is not, it can be a to
• 21:58
  be, but normally it's a two are finding back to be again and
• 22:02
  because, you know, sometimes you need to give people context for
• 22:05
  things. You can't just say something
• 22:06
  straight. You need to kind of build it up
• 22:08
  a bit and, you know, I like to tell stories as well.
• 22:12
  And since I tend to save, like, I don't talk often, like, I
• 22:17
  don't instigate conversations stuff like that.
• 22:20
  If I do speak, you know, I kind of get into the swing of things.
• 22:23
  But when someone does that and they interrupt when I've just
• 22:27
  begun speaking, I get two things happen.
• 22:30
  I get really aggressively angry like a really like because I
• 22:33
  know I'm not an angry person, but I just want to punch them.
• 22:36
  I'm like and then the other part of me is just like, confused at
• 22:42
  what. We'll, why would you ask me this
• 22:43
  question, if you're not interested in, hearing what I
• 22:45
  have to say? What is the point of that?
• 22:47
  Like I don't understand? Is it?
• 22:48
  Are you just going through? The motions?
• 22:50
  Is this just like, okay, I asked them a question.
• 22:52
  Therefore, we Can move on now like what?
• 22:56
  I don't understand that it drives me nuts.
• 22:59
  Yeah there's definitely a lot of weirdness to people's
• 23:01
  idiosyncrasies when it comes to speaking especially like it.
• 23:05
  What you're talking about they were there, just do going
• 23:06
  through the motions so they can get to their point.
• 23:08
  So like for example, say I had a story about a tall beach ball or
• 23:10
  something like that, right? And I'm going to naturally start
• 23:13
  to lean the conversation that way for no reason I just like,
• 23:15
  oh, did you have you ever seen this movie that has this giant
• 23:17
  beach ball in it and I'll just start so I can get to my story
• 23:20
  and I see people do stuff like that all the time.
• 23:22
  I'm only asking you about Specific thing.
• 23:24
  So I can tell you about my thing.
• 23:25
  It's got nothing to do with you. Hearing your actual answer and
• 23:28
  you may even say something that's like a cry for help in
• 23:31
  there, but I'm not listening. I doesn't matter.
• 23:33
  I'm not gonna pay attention. I'm just waiting to get to my
• 23:34
  thing. You know what I mean?
• 23:35
  It's so it's a bad habit. We have, that's never happened
• 23:38
  to me, but I've seen that happen.
• 23:40
  Like when you're, you know, like when you're a spectator in
• 23:42
  someone else's conversation, you just get listening.
• 23:45
  And, yeah, I've seen that happen and he annoys me because you
• 23:48
  want to hear what that person has to say, because they've got
• 23:50
  like an interesting story, but then that other person keeps
• 23:53
  trying to bring Get back to the dumb thing and you're like look
• 23:55
  you want to say like none of us care about your dumb story
• 23:58
  about. I don't know what happened to
• 24:00
  you at the supermarket and why you're annoyed about it and
• 24:03
  school retail worker. I don't know, whatever.
• 24:05
  Like no one cares about your story.
• 24:07
  Why we want to hear what this person has to say, you know,
• 24:10
  shut up. Just I know exactly what you
• 24:15
  mean. Yeah.
• 24:15
  Just drank it drives me nuts. But anyway, let's bring it back
• 24:20
  to you. So you are the host of The
• 24:22
  Starting nowhere podcast. Is what we went.
• 24:24
  And in the beginning, tell us about who the podcast is for and
• 24:27
  the types of topics you tend to discuss on the show.
• 24:30
  Absolutely. So as cliche as it is, I think
• 24:33
  that there's episodes out there for just about anybody.
• 24:36
  I know that they're going to lean towards some of my interest
• 24:38
  obviously, but I try to just talk to anybody about anything
• 24:41
  but the podcast is set around. The idea of having open
• 24:45
  conversations about things that we traditionally been told we're
• 24:47
  not supposed to talk about and doing it in a way where I'm not
• 24:50
  trying to browbeat my guests into whatever my purse.
• 24:53
  Active is and I don't expect him to browbeat me into their
• 24:56
  perspective. It's to express our perspective.
• 24:59
  When this conflict naturally, you express it, and you go
• 25:02
  through it, you work through it and those type of things as
• 25:04
  well. But also, just to talk about
• 25:05
  things that are interesting because, like you said before, I
• 25:07
  think people are far more interesting than we give
• 25:09
  ourselves credit for. And I also think that there's a
• 25:11
  lot of stuff that is just really dynamic in the way that we learn
• 25:15
  in the sense that I can hear somebody say something on a
• 25:17
  podcast one time. Just, and it's a throwaway
• 25:20
  comment for them and then it Sparks a whole train of events
• 25:22
  for me. The where it meets me, right?
• 25:25
  And so it's just really conversations.
• 25:27
  I think the dates conversations with people who either have an
• 25:29
  interesting topic to talk about or have done something
• 25:32
  interesting. Something interesting has
• 25:33
  happened to them or we just get into some some debates and just
• 25:37
  express ourselves in a lot of different ways.
• 25:38
  One of the episodes, I'm the most proud of I had a police
• 25:41
  officer on who we talk to. It was a day after the capitol
• 25:45
  riots here, the United States happened and so we didn't have a
• 25:48
  lot of facts at the time and I was really wrong, a lot of stuff
• 25:51
  that I thought at the time which is great to see, you know, In
• 25:54
  the past now. But we got his perspective on
• 25:57
  what he may have thought of having from a policing
• 25:59
  perspective, why this happened, and all these different types of
• 26:01
  things. And then later, the facts come
• 26:02
  out, you see how right? He was, how wrong I was and all
• 26:05
  this type of stuff. And then also, we talked about
• 26:06
  some of the, you know, race-related shootings that have
• 26:09
  happened here in the United States.
• 26:10
  Have been very big news and everything going on around the
• 26:12
  world, so it's just a really good episode.
• 26:14
  I felt like if we got to dive into a lot of that and have some
• 26:16
  real conversations especially like I said, from somebody who
• 26:18
  has a very in-depth perspective of what policing is actually
• 26:22
  like you know, It's not just to lay people shouting things.
• 26:25
  They've read from their bias new sources at each other and
• 26:27
  everything. So that but that's the long and
• 26:29
  short of the show is just a lot of conversations about a lot of
• 26:32
  different stuff and some of it may be boring at people but I
• 26:34
  think it's either interesting or useful.
• 26:36
  So for example, I just had a tax expert on a couple of weeks ago
• 26:39
  to talk about different tax issues and everything as we get
• 26:42
  ready to here in the United States, to file our taxes and
• 26:44
  stuff. And I think that's useful
• 26:45
  information for people even though they don't want to hear
• 26:47
  it. And what you also podcasting
• 26:52
  goes, well, the main things you want to achieve with this
• 26:54
  podcast. Um, that's a great question that
• 26:57
  I haven't really put a lot of deep thought into.
• 26:59
  I think, it's still in the stages of for me where it's
• 27:03
  trying to inspire conversation and thoughts and hopeful, that
• 27:07
  people will look with either their own beliefs or in the way
• 27:12
  that they deal with other people's beliefs.
• 27:14
  And what I mean by that is either challenging your own
• 27:16
  believe. One of the things I think is
• 27:17
  very important is to never be set in your own ways.
• 27:19
  I like, To have my thoughts challenge consistently because I
• 27:22
  know that I have biases and so if I don't have them challenged
• 27:25
  and I'm just gonna believe, whatever I believe from the
• 27:26
  beginning and I'm not getting any better as a human being,
• 27:29
  right? And then secondary to that, I
• 27:31
  also think that by somebody singing, two people, having a
• 27:34
  conversation where there is conflict naturally and they're
• 27:36
  not going at each other's throats and they're able to
• 27:38
  still be meaningful in that conversation.
• 27:41
  Hopefully will help other people have that in smaller instances,
• 27:44
  because I think that's what it causes.
• 27:46
  A lot of the issues we've seen in today's world is that we
• 27:48
  spent so long In our history as human beings.
• 27:50
  Just avoiding talking about things and so they never got
• 27:53
  better. We're not any better today.
• 27:55
  I think than we were 30 years ago, say about talking about
• 27:58
  race politics, religion money. We're so bad at them because we
• 28:01
  just kept avoiding it. We didn't develop the skills to
• 28:03
  be better at these things on argues worse now.
• 28:07
  Yeah bonus. If I mean if you just look at
• 28:09
  like Twitter as a concept in general there's so much
• 28:16
  misinformation. The way everyone attacks each
• 28:18
  other. This whole can So culture saying
• 28:20
  it's like, no one has debate, it's just like oh, you're wrong.
• 28:25
  Therefore, I'm going to attack you with everything.
• 28:28
  I have like I'll give you an example, right?
• 28:31
  So I release the clip on my podcast Clips Channel where it
• 28:34
  was just me. And a guy that I have on the
• 28:37
  show is a regular. He's quite he's quite against
• 28:41
  Trump, right. And I'm neutral on politics, I
• 28:44
  always have been. I see good and bad on both sides
• 28:49
  and we were Ali, all we were doing was talking about Trump's
• 28:51
  like failed business ventures. And I mentioned this on the show
• 28:54
  before so sorry for repeating, but it was interesting to see
• 28:58
  all of the hate comments. We were receiving from
• 29:01
  essentially. What I would imagine are Trump
• 29:02
  supporters, right? And it was all like, oh, screw
• 29:05
  these guys living in their mom's basement or something.
• 29:07
  Are, you know, they're just jealous Bubba, blind.
• 29:09
  It's like, did you even listen to the clip?
• 29:11
  It's like, like, it's like I suppose there is a bit of a
• 29:15
  tongue-in-cheek, b, you know, we are kind of been like, heart's,
• 29:17
  a bit crazy that he did this thing and that there.
• 29:19
  But we Can kind of say like, oh, he's a total failure in general.
• 29:22
  We just said that. These are some of the things
• 29:24
  that he's done that, you know, have not worked out and it's
• 29:27
  fact, you can find it online order.
• 29:29
  These things he did and they didn't work out, right?
• 29:32
  And look, loads of people fail when life, like, life is about
• 29:35
  failure and recovery and failure, and that's, that's life
• 29:38
  in general. But it was interesting how
• 29:42
  people just defend people to such an extent that it becomes
• 29:47
  aggressive and they do the same thing.
• 29:49
  With opinions. It's like you can't have an
• 29:51
  opinion anymore. If you have a low and behold you
• 29:53
  have an opinion that you know, goes against the norm people
• 29:57
  will attack you to the point where they'll send you like
• 30:00
  death threats, they'll attack your character.
• 30:02
  Like I get hate comments every single day and like most of its
• 30:05
  for art stuff, your things like music and acting.
• 30:08
  And I accept that that's just a part of.
• 30:10
  If you do anything, creative people are going to attack you.
• 30:13
  And most of the time. It's because of jealousy because
• 30:15
  they're not doing anything in their life and then - people,
• 30:17
  but when it comes to like actual Eight and having debates with
• 30:21
  people, I feel like a lot of these people online are
• 30:25
  incapable of ever having a debate because I think it's one
• 30:29
  of the most powerful things in life.
• 30:30
  If you can sit down and have a friendly debate with someone who
• 30:35
  has opposing views to your own, like I've done it.
• 30:38
  You know, I have friends who like, I'm although I'm I sit in
• 30:42
  the middle on politics, you know, I suppose I am a little
• 30:46
  bit more liberal than I am Republican, or conservative or
• 30:49
  whatever, right? Right.
• 30:50
  But I'm very business minded as well.
• 30:52
  So when I hear conservative and Republican views on business, I
• 30:56
  might, yeah, absolutely. And I disagree with the liberal
• 30:59
  views on that now, I was able to sit there with one of my
• 31:04
  flatmates in recent months and have that debate about UK
• 31:06
  politics. And we found that we agreed on
• 31:08
  certain things, disagree with others, and we had fun with it.
• 31:11
  It was enjoyable. We would we would debate it out
• 31:13
  but we'd have fun with it. It didn't become a personal
• 31:16
  thing because at the end of the day, it's just beliefs like As
• 31:20
  long as your beliefs on hurting people like, okay, if you take
• 31:23
  racism and as an example, right? That's a belief that hurts
• 31:27
  people. Hmm.
• 31:28
  You know, that that's a belief that they're actively segregate
• 31:31
  society and has caused and still continues to cause, you know,
• 31:36
  I'm just problems in life and that is something that we need
• 31:38
  to overcome as a society. But when it comes to like, or do
• 31:42
  you prefer left the right politics?
• 31:43
  I mean, That you can make Arguments for both.
• 31:47
  There's that and I both parties exist because they're able to do
• 31:50
  good and bad for society. And you know, I mean it's you
• 31:54
  will constantly moving forward. We have to as a society but I
• 31:58
  feels like a lot of people don't want to do that.
• 32:01
  All they want to do is attack people for having a view that's
• 32:04
  different from their own. Like for example, I've mentioned
• 32:07
  on the show before about the trans Community like something
• 32:10
  I'm very in support of you know I'm very sorry I always have
• 32:13
  been but I've noticed They get can get very aggressive towards
• 32:17
  people for tiny things. I remember one time I used the
• 32:22
  saying online in support of them where I said I Live and Let Live
• 32:27
  man you know like and that's just a common saying that people
• 32:30
  say but people call me transphobic for saying that and
• 32:32
  I was like but it wasn't directed at anyone.
• 32:35
  It was General, you know? I mean it was like I don't
• 32:39
  understand that but that kind of mentality that exists is
• 32:43
  something that's very scary. And to be honest, it puts It's
• 32:45
  me off. Having, you know, these kind of
• 32:48
  debates. I tend to kind of look more art
• 32:52
  and people and focus more on that because I don't like
• 32:56
  fighting. I don't like that element of
• 32:59
  things you because I would love to have the base.
• 33:01
  I think it's a very interesting thing to do, and I admire people
• 33:03
  that do it, but I just, you know, like I look at someone
• 33:07
  like Jordan Peterson, for example, and I see people like
• 33:10
  literally scream in his face, rather than just sit down and
• 33:14
  have a civilized Debate with him.
• 33:15
  I don't know. I guess.
• 33:16
  I know he says controversial things and that's offensive to
• 33:19
  people. I get that.
• 33:20
  But look, if you want to put your point across in an argument
• 33:24
  and be taken seriously, screaming in someone's face, is
• 33:27
  not the way to do. It, sitting down being civilized
• 33:30
  and having a conversation is how you do that.
• 33:32
  How you achieve that, you know, bringing it back to race.
• 33:35
  If you look at Martin Luther King, Martin Luther King story,
• 33:40
  and is it, Martin X is that, right?
• 33:44
  Malcolm X. Malcolm X.
• 33:45
  Sorry Mom, Malcolm X. And the way that they would
• 33:49
  composed himself was was amazing.
• 33:51
  And, you know, they they showed up to debates with facts
• 33:54
  statistics and just just even if you just sit there like I
• 33:59
  remember watching a Malcolm X interview from like the 60s
• 34:02
  where it's like a Roundtable discussion and you just see the
• 34:05
  man's demeanor and hand. Like he's very intellectual and
• 34:08
  he's just sitting there and you look, don't get me wrong, you
• 34:10
  don't even have to be an intellectual, you just need to
• 34:12
  sort of compose yourself in a civilized manner.
• 34:15
  People will take you seriously, you know, and people did take
• 34:18
  them seriously. Obviously it became extreme and,
• 34:20
  you know, we know what happened as a result of that.
• 34:23
  But, you know, if those things hadn't happened, I still believe
• 34:27
  that they would have been taken very seriously because of the
• 34:29
  way that they approach things, and because they were very calm
• 34:33
  and collected and and, you know, they debated and they didn't
• 34:37
  argue especially my point. Why I think when you see the way
• 34:43
  that social media has, Become so proliferated throughout our
• 34:47
  culture. I think you can see a lot of the
• 34:49
  ways that people are akin to discussing these things which is
• 34:53
  to not discuss them is to shout the things that I believe out
• 34:56
  and not really take the information back in necessarily,
• 34:59
  right? And so I'm one of those people
• 35:01
  who I don't blame social media for this because I think social
• 35:04
  media much like a gun much like a car much.
• 35:06
  Like a lot of things isn't how you use it, right?
• 35:09
  I can, I've had great debates on Facebook.
• 35:11
  I've also had really Petty stupid arguments on Facebook,
• 35:14
  and that's more. About me and the other
• 35:16
  individual who are involved in those conversations, but it is
• 35:19
  about the social media platforms.
• 35:20
  Now, am I saying they are a great way to do these
• 35:22
  conversations know? I think verbal something like
• 35:25
  this. We could see the other person at
• 35:26
  least or if you're in person, you know, we're in physical
• 35:29
  space together then we could do it even better.
• 35:32
  But that's why I'm kind of optimistic about the new
• 35:34
  platform Clubhouse because it is about around having actual
• 35:37
  conversations. And it's not just posting, it's
• 35:39
  like a lot of audio and everything.
• 35:40
  I think that is a lot better way to do it, but to cut through all
• 35:45
  That I think at the end of the day like I said before, we've
• 35:47
  spent so long avoiding conversations that we're not
• 35:50
  developed and how to do them. And I think not to plug my own
• 35:54
  podcast by any means. But I recently had on a debate
• 35:57
  coach, he he's somebody who was involved in setting up like
• 36:01
  this, the whole debate Network for historically, black colleges
• 36:04
  and universities here in the United States.
• 36:06
  And he talked about how beneficial that is for
• 36:09
  developing, that ability to talk about anything and I 100% agree
• 36:12
  with them. I think that would be a very
• 36:14
  useful skill for a People to learn is debating at a very
• 36:17
  primary level. If you're doing it in like, you
• 36:19
  know, first grade and that type of stuff and you grow up knowing
• 36:22
  that then you could have real conversations in real life
• 36:24
  because that translates into a real-world skill.
• 36:27
  And I don't think that most people have done that and most
• 36:29
  people avoid bad feelings. If something hurts me, I don't
• 36:31
  do it. If something is very
• 36:33
  uncomfortable, me I'm not going to do it.
• 36:34
  So having these conversations become uncomfortable and when we
• 36:36
  get uncomfortable, we react emotionally and that's where you
• 36:39
  get to Jordan Pederson thing where people are screaming in
• 36:41
  his face. It's because they can't have
• 36:43
  that conversation and Then you compound that with what people
• 36:47
  feel like they have a moral High ground, and that's what you
• 36:49
  always see. You've seen it, across all
• 36:51
  history. It you can take any country, any
• 36:53
  race of people any culture, anything you want to see.
• 36:56
  If you feel like you have the moral High Ground, The Rules of
• 36:59
  Engagement, no longer matter to me, because I know what I'm
• 37:02
  doing is right, you know what I mean?
• 37:03
  Just because it depended very hyperbolic example.
• 37:06
  So people who are listening can really see what I mean, think
• 37:09
  about how we would deal with somebody jaywalking compared to
• 37:11
  how you want to deal with somebody who's a pedophile, the
• 37:15
  Different ways that we want to react to those things because we
• 37:17
  feel we have a moral High Ground, we have such a visceral
• 37:19
  reaction to the pedophile compared to a jaywalker.
• 37:22
  And again, I'm not saying I disagree with that.
• 37:23
  I definitely think that they should be dealt with very, very
• 37:25
  differently and maybe in some illegal ways to pedophile,
• 37:27
  right? But, but the point being that,
• 37:29
  that's how we deal with a lot of these different things we're
• 37:31
  talking about. So if you and I are having a
• 37:33
  disagreement on our favorite flavor, soda, that can be very a
• 37:36
  very civil. We can talk about a lot of
• 37:37
  different things. But if we're starting to talk
• 37:39
  about now politics or race or religion or things like that,
• 37:41
  now suddenly we can't be cordial anymore but there's The same
• 37:45
  conversation at the core. We have a disagreement.
• 37:48
  We want to discuss a disagreement.
• 37:49
  That's all we're doing but it gets to a place of emotion for
• 37:52
  people and they can't fight through that emotion.
• 37:55
  I guess is the way to say it you know I still think though the
• 37:59
  like I take your point but I still think doing it.
• 38:01
  Calmly is always the most effective absolutely I want to I
• 38:04
  want to say I agree. I'm not trying to pick a picture
• 38:06
  of not agreement that. Yeah yeah it's just it's just
• 38:08
  there's so many examples to come to my like there was that
• 38:10
  amazing guy in the state's who famously is a black gentleman
• 38:14
  and he would Go around having meetings with leaders from the
• 38:18
  KKK. Maybe he's all forget his last
• 38:21
  name, but his name is Daryl. He was on The Joe Rogan podcast,
• 38:23
  exactly. Yeah.
• 38:24
  Incredible human being. Yeah.
• 38:26
  Yeah, that's storage. It just blew my mind.
• 38:27
  Like, I think the biggest thing was probably his courage was,
• 38:31
  what inspired me the most, like to turn up in those situations
• 38:35
  that the particular one. He example, he gave roof sitting
• 38:38
  in a room with this guy, and he's very sure that the guys
• 38:42
  armed and, you know, it's a very tense situation.
• 38:45
  And and he was able to get through that and just have a
• 38:46
  cordial, you know, relaxed conversation what I say, relax.
• 38:51
  But you know what I mean? Like really with relaxed know
• 38:53
  what to do it and and he's successfully converted.
• 38:59
  So many people through being calm, through being collected
• 39:03
  and through pursuing his message.
• 39:05
  And I just, I don't know, I feel like personally that's always
• 39:09
  the best way to try and resolve anything like even in my own
• 39:12
  personal life when I've looked at situations.
• 39:15
  Of just, you know, in a time of Panic or urgency when you try
• 39:19
  and calm yourself down and just bring it down to a really kind
• 39:22
  of slow pace and start to think because that's the thing.
• 39:25
  When you get emotional you stop thinking and obviously in the
• 39:30
  context of a debate that's a problem because you know, you
• 39:34
  can be proven wrong. But miss that and still be push,
• 39:41
  excuse me, pushing this idea that you are right?
• 39:46
  Even though you've clearly been proven wrong and he says, very
• 39:50
  common, the human thing that we do as well.
• 39:54
  When we've been proven wrong, we still Chase and pursue and
• 39:57
  defend an idea because it's so intrinsically.
• 40:00
  Part of us, it's a personal thing and it goes back to what
• 40:02
  you were saying before about this idea that we need to be
• 40:05
  open to ideas and To this idea that we can be proven wrong
• 40:09
  because we are going to be proven wrong.
• 40:12
  You know, throughout time I've been proven wrong through my
• 40:15
  beliefs before and I'm happy for it because it's changed my
• 40:18
  perspective on things. And I think it's made me a
• 40:22
  better person as a result. And, you know, I think that many
• 40:27
  of us forget that, you know, we forget that, you know, if
• 40:30
  nothing else we should be growing and constantly reaching,
• 40:34
  you know, high like a moving forward, you know, Even even if
• 40:38
  Society doesn't appear like, it's moving forward.
• 40:40
  I think on an individual basis, we at least need to take
• 40:42
  responsibility and ownership and do our very best to move forward
• 40:46
  as much as we can, and then become the best that we can be.
• 40:49
  And I think that can only occur through as you said before,
• 40:52
  like, having this open mind and everything, really green for
• 40:55
  anybody who just saw me typing, their, what I was doing was
• 40:57
  looking up, the gentleman we were talking about cause I did
• 40:59
  want to make sure I put his name out there.
• 41:01
  For those who are unaware of him.
• 41:02
  His name is Darrell Davis. That's a look at look up Darrell
• 41:05
  Davis. You see what I'm talking about
• 41:06
  and I'm glad you You can because not because not only because I
• 41:09
  think he's an incredible individual that I think more
• 41:11
  people should know about but there's a recent video I saw of
• 41:14
  him that completely illustrates what we're talking about where
• 41:16
  he is having a conversation with some other younger black people
• 41:20
  and their chastising him for. Wow he's done his work for how
• 41:25
  he has had those conversations with who they see as
• 41:29
  unredeemable people and say and he's saying so you basically
• 41:33
  want to cast them out of sight and they say yes they said and
• 41:35
  that's part of the problem. We have that moral High Ground
• 41:37
  stand for saying that people who will be leave things that are
• 41:41
  KKK or whatever. The hate group were talking
• 41:43
  about Nazi, whatever it is that you can't redeem them.
• 41:46
  And that essentially, their only purpose in this world is to be
• 41:49
  hated or to die or whatever that view of that is.
• 41:51
  And that's very very problematic and to your point that you were
• 41:54
  kind of closing there on. That does not move us forward as
• 41:56
  a society. There is multiple ways to evolve
• 41:59
  one. Is you in this particular sense,
• 42:02
  I want to get to Scientific on that because there's really not
• 42:04
  a lot of ways to evolve in that sense.
• 42:06
  But in words, My behavior. You can evolve by changing
• 42:09
  people's behavior. You don't simply have to kill
• 42:11
  those people out of society, or pass them out of society to make
• 42:14
  society. As a whole of all, you teach
• 42:16
  them to new ways. You teach them, the ways that
• 42:18
  are better. It's just like we used to ride
• 42:20
  horses. Well, we stopped doing that.
• 42:21
  Is that because we evolved in some meaningful ways.
• 42:24
  We did, we saw how much you more useful.
• 42:26
  They were, and we all adapted to that we now we ride car.
• 42:29
  Excuse me drive cars, pretty much everywhere, right?
• 42:31
  But I just think that there's a lot of stuff that we have to do
• 42:34
  internally. We have to continue to look
• 42:36
  inside ourselves and become Uncle being wrong.
• 42:38
  You made a very good point. That is one of my core beliefs
• 42:40
  is that, if you have to be comfortable being wrong, because
• 42:43
  if you're not comfortable doing wrong, you're only going to do.
• 42:45
  One of two things you're going to lie because you've already
• 42:48
  been found is wrong. You can't admit it.
• 42:49
  You can't back down to that or two.
• 42:51
  You're only going to talk about things.
• 42:53
  You're 100%. Sure of which means you're not
• 42:54
  learning, which means you're not growing, you have to be
• 42:56
  comfortable or at least with the possibility of being wrong and
• 43:00
  then confront that within yourself.
• 43:02
  And then, you know, I was wrong there and that's like I told you
• 43:04
  before, that's one of the reasons I want to do the podcast
• 43:05
  as well is because I wanted to Wrong.
• 43:07
  I wanted to have the opportunity to be wrong and talk about
• 43:10
  things that I didn't know and I was very wrong on what I thought
• 43:12
  was going on with those Capital rights because I was reacting in
• 43:14
  real time. And this is what I thought and
• 43:16
  then the facts come out. I'm super wrong.
• 43:17
  And I'm gonna take it. Take that episode down.
• 43:19
  I'm not going to change what I believe that time because I
• 43:21
  can't, but like, it's okay to be wrong.
• 43:23
  I'm still alive. You're still alive, will be
• 43:24
  wrong in the future. It's going to happen again.
• 43:27
  Be wrong and learn from it. Grow from it.
• 43:29
  It's okay, that's not goes back to what I was saying before, as
• 43:31
  well. Like how especially people in
• 43:33
  line on Twitter they'll dig up something you said like ten
• 43:35
  years ago and hold you. Account friend.
• 43:38
  It's like, okay, yeah, I understand you should apologize
• 43:40
  for mistakes, you've made but same time.
• 43:42
  It's like we change, we make mistakes.
• 43:46
  It's part of who we are, like, bringing it back to that
• 43:49
  example, you gave, I mean, I do understand that anguish and the
• 43:53
  anger from the back Community with, especially with Nazis, and
• 43:57
  also neo-nazis and white supremacist.
• 43:59
  And so, I get that, I understand that and I think it's, it takes
• 44:03
  a great deal of strength to be able.
• 44:07
  To kind of overcome that and focus on the message.
• 44:10
  Butler violence brick just brings more violence.
• 44:14
  You know what I mean? Like that's that's all that
• 44:16
  happens. You Clash your Clash of what do
• 44:18
  you think? Like if you do enough violence
• 44:20
  that you'll get it eventually, what you want?
• 44:23
  I mean, is it tricky one? Isn't it?
• 44:25
  Because you can argue that maybe?
• 44:29
  Because I know, I know that Malcolm X and Martin Luther had
• 44:32
  very sort of opposing opinions on this.
• 44:35
  I remember growing up and learning, About this and I found
• 44:38
  it interesting because it was always that my Luther King, sort
• 44:40
  of preached, more of like a passive approach and just your
• 44:43
  peaceful protests and and Malcolm X was more about know.
• 44:46
  Sometimes, I think we have to not necessarily be violent but
• 44:50
  like, you know, kind of show action, you know what I mean to
• 44:54
  kind of push things across and I can see kind of the benefits of
• 45:00
  both approaches. You're not a bit like especially
• 45:02
  if you look at everything that's been happening lately,
• 45:05
  especially last year we've Floyd and everything like that.
• 45:09
  It's like When that happened? I started just, I took a bit of
• 45:15
  a backseat and I just started, like, reading what everyone was
• 45:18
  saying, and, you know, I don't remember donating to BLM and
• 45:21
  doing a couple of videos on it, but I remember just sitting and
• 45:23
  thinking, like, what can we learn from this?
• 45:26
  And I think the biggest thing that I learned from it is that
• 45:29
  especially in America, there's still like racism at the
• 45:34
  institutional level. And you know, I always make sure
• 45:39
  to because that racism is always going to exist in society
• 45:42
  because there's always just idiots and Society is that,
• 45:44
  that's just, you know, it doesn't matter where you go in
• 45:46
  the world. There's always going to be
• 45:47
  idiots and let if you break it down.
• 45:49
  I know it's stating the obvious but being racist is just a
• 45:52
  logical. When you really think about it.
• 45:54
  Like it, it must come from upbringing and from exposure to
• 46:03
  do, do mean something like and it can be silly as well.
• 46:05
  I've met people over the years where They hate, they had a bad
• 46:09
  experience with someone from a country and now they just hate
• 46:12
  everyone from that place. And it's like, you can't
• 46:15
  deliver, you can't generalize there are good and bad people
• 46:18
  everywhere in the world. That doesn't that isn't
• 46:20
  necessarily a reflective of their race religion, Creed
• 46:24
  color, or whatever. But people have to be reminded.
• 46:27
  That's the frustrating thing about societies, people have to
• 46:29
  constantly be reminded and, you know, it's interesting for me
• 46:33
  because I grew up in a very Multicultural Society in London,
• 46:36
  like, you know, From a very young age, you know, best
• 46:39
  friends were back or C or Indian or whatever.
• 46:41
  So I never really thought about thing.
• 46:43
  Like I always just had more of a Fascination.
• 46:45
  I was like oh cool that's different from for me that's
• 46:48
  different. I want to learn more and when I
• 46:54
  remember, you know I've said this on the podcast before but
• 46:56
  when we have when I when I did see things like racism, our I
• 47:00
  was always kind of confused at first but also there's that deep
• 47:04
  sinking feeling because You don't know the thoughts and
• 47:09
  feelings of everyone in the room.
• 47:10
  You presume that. Everyone thinks this is bad, but
• 47:13
  until someone kind of stands up and says, hey this is wrong.
• 47:17
  It just kind of gets accepted sometimes Janome.
• 47:19
  Like I really good example of this.
• 47:22
  There's a movie in England called, This Is England, and it
• 47:26
  was made in the early 2000s. It is supposed to sort of cat
• 47:29
  encapsulate, sort of think it's like late 70s 80s, kind of
• 47:35
  Britain with the Skynyrd's. Movement and the racism that is
• 47:39
  listed in the in the UK as a result of many Pakistani and
• 47:43
  Indian people living in the country who been there for
• 47:46
  Generations, by the way and had been invited in like 40s 50s
• 47:50
  after war time because just a quick history lesson UK was
• 47:54
  screwed because you know those people died in the war.
• 47:57
  So we invited led to people over to come populated country, bring
• 48:02
  you know everything into the economy, like this help, grow
• 48:05
  the country, you know, And everything.
• 48:10
  But there were people that saw a very differently and excuse me,
• 48:15
  this this movie kind of tells a story of that and it's a
• 48:18
  particular moment. When Basically, there's a guy
• 48:24
  that's part of their group, Whiskey's, Maggie coughing,
• 48:27
  who's is a Jamaican man? Right.
• 48:29
  I believe. And this guy that's the Skynyrd,
• 48:33
  like, basically the guys part of the gang.
• 48:35
  But then he just kind of sits there like just talking to him.
• 48:38
  Calmly big. You can see him getting more and
• 48:40
  more aggressive, because he's talking about, oh, you had this
• 48:43
  and you had that and it's different or it's easy for you,
• 48:45
  like he's got this skewed distorted idea in his head,
• 48:49
  right? And it's clearly based on a very
• 48:53
  simple, Skewed perception of what he believes to be the
• 48:56
  truth. And also maybe what he's
• 48:57
  learned, but then eventually ends up in him attacking him and
• 49:00
  then the room is split. So like pretty much everyone in
• 49:03
  that scenario is stunned and wants it to end.
• 49:05
  And he's just pursuing this. And I think there's like one
• 49:07
  other guy that's supporting him. That's also a racist, but
• 49:10
  everyone else in the room is like what the hell man?
• 49:12
  You can't do that. That's wrong.
• 49:14
  And in the end, most of everyone in that room, kind of leaves and
• 49:19
  doesn't want anything to do with this guy and I feel like that's
• 49:22
  most people but the process Point is that most people will
• 49:24
  tend to be passive in a situation like that, and that's
• 49:28
  kind of more the problem, isn't it?
• 49:29
  And I think that it was really good to see in the US when
• 49:34
  everything was happening, that people were kind of protesting
• 49:38
  and showing their support for the cause and everything.
• 49:41
  And, you know, it was interesting, how many people
• 49:44
  were trying to hijack that and say, oh no, we're actually,
• 49:46
  we're against this idea, should be equality for all, it's like,
• 49:50
  yeah, of course, but like when there's so much kind of
• 49:54
  Discrimination shown against the particular race like surely that
• 49:58
  race should then be able to kind of say, hey, this is wrong and
• 50:03
  and have a movement in, you know?
• 50:05
  I mean like for me like it was frustrating seeing that like it
• 50:11
  was either, did you know the first thing I thought of
• 50:13
  actually, when I saw that was the NWA and the stuff that they
• 50:18
  were rapping about back in the 80s about what they were
• 50:22
  experiencing in. Year and growing up as a black
• 50:25
  man on the streets and how the police will automatically just
• 50:30
  assume that you're a gangster, would arrest you for no reason
• 50:32
  like that. You can go check it out, listen
• 50:34
  to the lyrics if you haven't liked.
• 50:35
  Its, that was the whole point of that rap group.
• 50:39
  It wasn't just music. It was like, Hey, we're pissed
• 50:41
  off with how Society treats us. Like they shouldn't just assume
• 50:45
  that we're bad guys for no apparent reason.
• 50:47
  Yeah. And for me it was like, wow,
• 50:51
  this is just a massive step backwards.
• 50:54
  You know, for everything, you see in society like first black
• 50:56
  president, black leaders in businesses and stuff, you think
• 51:01
  are great. This is moving forward and then
• 51:03
  we take a massive leap back with something like that.
• 51:06
  And I know that there are things that are happening.
• 51:10
  Where, for instance, I believe the trial of those police
• 51:14
  officers is currently on happening right now, correct?
• 51:17
  Yeah, Derek Sheldon's trials ongoing right now out in like
• 51:20
  day 11 or 12 or something like that, right?
• 51:23
  So something is And done about it.
• 51:24
  But like I remember even in the early days of that there were
• 51:27
  like oh yeah there were only gonna guess light sentences and
• 51:29
  stuff and I say How does it? How is this logical?
• 51:33
  Like to me, this just screams institutional racism and it's
• 51:37
  like, how do you navigate that? How do you work past a society
• 51:41
  that is inherently racist? And I'm not saying everyone's
• 51:46
  racist okay, before anyone goes crazy with that, I'm just saying
• 51:48
  this system is and it can be in all countries, including the UK,
• 51:55
  a, you know, it's businesses, you know, in things like,
• 51:58
  employing hiring processes. If we Something else for a
• 52:02
  minute. I'm not just race.
• 52:03
  But like if we talk about things like like ageism is a big thing.
• 52:10
  Yeah. Occurs.
• 52:11
  And for instance that there's many people that will tell you
• 52:17
  that you shouldn't put your age on a CV because you will get
• 52:19
  discriminated for against and it hits, you shouldn't it should be
• 52:22
  about, you know are you good enough to do the job or not?
• 52:26
  But it's not actually about that.
• 52:27
  It's never about that. It's about, are you the right
• 52:29
  fit? Are you what we're looking for
• 52:31
  and then They will, you know, in the UK it's crazy.
• 52:33
  You got all these different things like take off or
• 52:36
  religion. You are tick off.
• 52:37
  What? Gender?
• 52:37
  You are. Take off this that and the
• 52:39
  other, but it's just used against you, you know?
• 52:42
  I mean, you think it's for you. You think it's include like, for
• 52:44
  instance, there's a thing about disability, right?
• 52:47
  And it says that you will be given an interview irregardless.
• 52:55
  It's like basically, like, because you're in a wheelchair,
• 52:59
  you won't be discriminated against and you will be Wanted
• 53:02
  an interview, which I always saw his kind of crazy.
• 53:04
  I was like, well, if the whole point is to for us to have equal
• 53:08
  society and equal chances, then surely it should be this person
• 53:13
  that's in a wheelchair should be giving an interview if they're
• 53:16
  right for the job, you know? And like you as an employer
• 53:19
  should not be taking into account.
• 53:22
  The fact that they're in a wheelchair, like that should not
• 53:24
  enter your mind in terms of whether or not they're fit to do
• 53:28
  the job. You see what I'm saying?
• 53:29
  Like it's should be more about. Out.
• 53:34
  Yeah, your ability to do the job and the only the only time that
• 53:37
  the wheelchair aspect of it should come into play is like
• 53:40
  okay if we work in an office building you know is our office
• 53:45
  fitted. So that you know that that suits
• 53:49
  a wheelchair user, that should be the only thing that like
• 53:51
  enters your mind, you know, and then you do find that informs
• 53:54
  you. It will have a saying, like our
• 53:55
  do you have special requirements and that's kind of what it's
• 53:57
  implying, but it's just frustrating because you just
• 54:00
  know that that's used against people.
• 54:02
  You know, even though it's supposed to be for you and
• 54:04
  you're told by the society that it's for you but is actually
• 54:08
  used against you and that's one of the most frustrating things
• 54:11
  for me, looking at all the time. And yeah, I don't know.
• 54:15
  It's just constant frustrations all the time.
• 54:17
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 54:18
  And so for those who may be only, I don't know if you
• 54:21
  haven't all the audio version of this or not but it for those who
• 54:24
  can't tell either by looking or hearing or whatever I am black I
• 54:28
  am multiracial my mother's white.
• 54:30
  My father is black Back. And so for me, black people
• 54:35
  being killed by police has been part of my experience my entire
• 54:38
  life. It's not something new to me.
• 54:39
  So, when the George Floyd situation happened, it wasn't
• 54:43
  like it did not ring any particular bail for me, because
• 54:46
  it was so common. It was an event that I had
• 54:49
  become accustomed to what hurt me more than seeing that was to
• 54:56
  see the comments about it afterwards from the people that
• 54:58
  I considered friends, or that I knew and stuff like that,
• 55:00
  whatever. Those are the things that
• 55:03
  started to get to me more and that always does and because,
• 55:05
  you know, you go through life, some 35 as I said before, so,
• 55:09
  around the time that I really be start becoming aware of the
• 55:11
  world. You've got Rodney King, You've
• 55:13
  got all these other instances of things happening in stuff.
• 55:15
  And that's before, you know, we really got a lot of stuff on
• 55:17
  camera, you know, of Emmett Till way back in the day, you know,
• 55:20
  the tosa the race riots in the on Black Wall Street in
• 55:25
  everything that you know, all these events and everything.
• 55:26
  Right. So they're not new.
• 55:27
  But then now what's happening I think in the world as you're
• 55:30
  able to see them it's So George, Floyd is one of the only
• 55:32
  instances I think that I'm aware of where you actually see it
• 55:35
  from start to end of a man just being killed.
• 55:38
  Right? And so I think that's why it had
• 55:39
  such a visceral reaction for everybody.
• 55:40
  And then you combine that with the fact that everybody was
• 55:42
  locked down because of the pandemic and emotions are high
• 55:45
  anyways because of all these things going on and then you see
• 55:47
  what that became and the reality of the situation is there may
• 55:52
  still be no effect from that. And what I mean by that is that
• 55:54
  Chauvin could potentially get off.
• 55:56
  He could not be tried for anything.
• 55:58
  You know, I'm assuming that try to.
• 55:59
  I shouldn't use that money to. He's being tried.
• 56:01
  He could not be convicted for anything.
• 56:04
  Thing is still in a very precarious place.
• 56:06
  You know, if he's not convicted for that, it's very bad.
• 56:10
  It was and everything into meltdown.
• 56:12
  Can you imagine? Like I'm not being funny, but He
• 56:18
  literally murdered a guy on camera and he's a police
• 56:22
  officer. Do you know what I mean?
• 56:25
  Like, you can't like I've heard the people try and justify it
• 56:28
  and stuff, but look, when I say murder, what I mean, is he used
• 56:33
  like unjust levels of foot? Like the guys handcuffed because
• 56:38
  I saw a lot of people say this or not, they were like, oh well,
• 56:41
  you know you don't know what he was arrested for before.
• 56:43
  He's got a history of violent crime, it's like that's
• 56:46
  irrespective, right? He's handcuffed on the floor.
• 56:50
  Like, he's not afraid, he's not going anywhere like genomic and
• 56:54
  Three police officers there. So there's no chance of this guy
• 56:58
  overpowering, all three and becoming a threat to society,
• 57:01
  because that's the way that we're taught it works.
• 57:04
  It's the priests are restraining, the threat, that's
• 57:07
  part possibly affect of society, right?
• 57:09
  So he was in no way a threat to anyone and that still happened
• 57:13
  to him and that I feel is the actual issue at play because
• 57:17
  it's like like, originally when I saw it like that, I kind of
• 57:24
  thought like Is it racist you in the sense that like is it
• 57:30
  because he's black? Or is it because they saw him as
• 57:33
  a threat, you know what I mean? And it's like, no must be
• 57:37
  because he's black. Like, what other reason would it
• 57:39
  be, why it will, why are you showing unjust forced to this
• 57:43
  guy? When he's clearly, not a frat.
• 57:45
  Well, let's tie those two things you just said together, because
• 57:48
  I think that's where a lot of people start to get a little bit
• 57:51
  confused as that. You asked, is he a threat?
• 57:54
  Or is it? It's going to be easy.
• 57:55
  It because he's a threat or is it?
• 57:56
  Because he's black. But we have to understand that a
• 57:58
  lot of times in those situations you're perceived as more of a
• 58:00
  threat because you are black. Right.
• 58:02
  That's yeah, exactly. It feel, those two are
• 58:04
  inextricably linked in a lot of ways for a lot of people because
• 58:07
  what we're talking about there is unconscious bias, if you see
• 58:10
  a black person and a white person dressed similarly, doing
• 58:14
  something or whatever you who do you perceive as more of a
• 58:16
  threat? Because I think in reality were
• 58:18
  not in a place where we can just be colorblind as like people
• 58:22
  like to say, right? You're going to have some kind
• 58:24
  of preconceived notion The pain those realities.
• 58:26
  And so when you see things like that, black people being
• 58:28
  perceived as more of a threat. And then the reaction to that is
• 58:31
  that they are more of a threat even though they're not abandon
• 58:34
  to your point, the were the best.
• 58:37
  Let's give me the worst outcome of.
• 58:38
  This should be that. Those cops behaved poorly
• 58:41
  because you of you being able to control that suspect, right,
• 58:45
  regardless of whether or not he was a threat, let's say he was.
• 58:48
  If you can't control him appropriately then you're not
• 58:50
  good at your job and that needs to be reflected in the way that
• 58:53
  you're treated and fired and all these other things.
• 58:55
  Things. Right?
• 58:55
  That's one of the things. I think that we get lost in this
• 58:57
  whole conversation because say George Floyd isn't killed.
• 59:00
  He still treated him properly in that situation because you don't
• 59:03
  need that level of force to control someone.
• 59:05
  So and I'll just give it a little bit of my own personal
• 59:07
  background, just to make sure that people know, I'm not
• 59:09
  completely talking outside of my neck.
• 59:10
  I practice martial arts. I'm a purple belt in Brazilian
• 59:13
  jiu-jitsu which is built around, controlling people, in the sense
• 59:16
  that you're talking about there, right?
• 59:17
  And then, I also know, a lot of Brazilian jiu-jitsu people who
• 59:20
  are police officers, and I talk to other police officers about
• 59:22
  these type of things, everything to.
• 59:24
  And that's at the end of the That's what you're really
• 59:25
  getting down to is George. Floyd being black is a part of
• 59:28
  the problem. Yes.
• 59:29
  But what we're talking about here is in your best case
• 59:32
  scenario. You should be able to control
• 59:34
  the suspect if you can't, you're not effectively doing your job
• 59:36
  and you're not meant for this job.
• 59:38
  And so, to the point you were making before These situations
• 59:42
  have gotten better, the statistics, all tell us that
• 59:44
  what is changed is now we can see them and because of social
• 59:48
  media, because the 24-hour news cycle, and all these different
• 59:50
  types of things were much more aware of them.
• 59:52
  Because, and I'm not trying to put you on the spot here,
• 59:55
  anything like that. So they don't feel like you have
• 59:56
  to answer this, but how many people yourself or your
• 59:59
  listeners? How many people know what Black
• 1:00:01
  Wall Street is about to Tulsa race?
• 1:00:02
  Riot! How many people know what that
• 1:00:03
  is? And the real part of the reason
• 1:00:05
  is because they were never told it, they didn't learn that in
• 1:00:08
  school and in very few schools, teach that and very few People
• 1:00:11
  were able to see it because there's no photos, really.
• 1:00:13
  There's no video evidence everything like that but we all
• 1:00:15
  know about all these recent cases have come up because it's
• 1:00:18
  video, there's people talking about it constantly on social
• 1:00:20
  media, is people talking about it constantly in the 24-hour
• 1:00:23
  news cycle and everything. So we feel like it's so much
• 1:00:26
  worse but it's not, it's gotten so much better.
• 1:00:28
  We have to keep in mind and leasing United States and not
• 1:00:31
  being American. Yes, I have a very United States
• 1:00:33
  Centric point of view. I know there's a ton of cases
• 1:00:34
  that have happened in the UK and everywhere else around the world
• 1:00:37
  as well. But United States, we've only
• 1:00:39
  had the Civil Rights Act since 67.
• 1:00:42
  Hmm. That's our 1967 and it's
• 1:00:45
  somewhere between 1964 and 1967 that time period.
• 1:00:48
  My mom's a told, right? So what we're talking about here
• 1:00:52
  is very, very recent so it's been way worse, really recently.
• 1:00:56
  So we can't, we have to remember that we feel worse because we're
• 1:01:00
  able to see it so much, and because I'm news is being shared
• 1:01:02
  so much, but the cases are going down.
• 1:01:03
  So I'm not saying keep your foot off the gas and trying to change
• 1:01:07
  this. What I am saying is, don't let
• 1:01:09
  it emotionally kill you because you To keep in mind that it is
• 1:01:12
  getting better with just not feeling that way.
• 1:01:14
  I think the key is that, like in history were often taught that,
• 1:01:18
  like, with the civil rights movement that they don't come
• 1:01:21
  out and say it, but they present it as like, oh, that was the end
• 1:01:23
  of racism. But that was the end of racism
• 1:01:26
  towards black people and it's like a digital bomber being
• 1:01:28
  elected or any of these. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:30
  And it's like, it's a kind of naivety that exists in society
• 1:01:34
  because it's like, well, no, it just got lesser.
• 1:01:38
  Do you know what I mean? So, like, instead of You know,
• 1:01:41
  about people being terrorized in the streets and like having
• 1:01:43
  ridiculous things like segregated bathrooms and
• 1:01:46
  segregated seats on buses. Yes, you could crap like that.
• 1:01:49
  Like it just went to like as you as we were speaking before.
• 1:01:54
  Like just discriminating based on race and stuff, right.
• 1:02:00
  Which isn't okay at all. It's not exactly the Improvement
• 1:02:03
  but it's like that. That's the issue is like we
• 1:02:07
  haven't like fully eradicated like that.
• 1:02:09
  If for instance I think this is a very interesting issue.
• 1:02:11
  As well as this idea that like should they even be a Black
• 1:02:14
  History Month? You know, because like, is it
• 1:02:18
  effective to highlight? That is it, is it actually
• 1:02:23
  counterproductive. I've seen this, I've seen Morgan
• 1:02:26
  Freeman, famously, talked about this and say, like, you know,
• 1:02:29
  shouldn't it just be part of History should just mean his
• 1:02:31
  human history rather than because I always used to think
• 1:02:34
  find that weird like growing up a school.
• 1:02:36
  Like I thought I always thought like I it's important to teach
• 1:02:39
  about this is important. We know about this.
• 1:02:41
  Cuz this is just and I remember like being just so perplexed and
• 1:02:44
  Confused bars at wow, like I guess we've really come far
• 1:02:48
  because like, look at how terrible it was like 200 years
• 1:02:50
  ago. Like this is how people thought
• 1:02:51
  like this is crazy but I did always kind of find it.
• 1:02:55
  Weird at the same time as like, once once a year, we celebrate
• 1:03:01
  the history of bad people. And I'm just like well I mean
• 1:03:04
  this is human history, this is something we're trying to move
• 1:03:08
  away and the whole point of this is that it's supposed to You
• 1:03:13
  highlight things that we shouldn't do.
• 1:03:15
  Like this is not how we should be and how we should treat
• 1:03:18
  people. But at the same time isn't it
• 1:03:21
  kind of like it's like singling out that people if you don't?
• 1:03:25
  I mean it's yeah. I'd that's why I kind of don't
• 1:03:27
  get about. It's a bit like yeah.
• 1:03:30
  Like I said before is it almost feels like counterproductive but
• 1:03:33
  then again if it was taken away I'm not sure that would
• 1:03:36
  necessarily be the right thing either.
• 1:03:39
  I don't know. So I'll start by saying that I
• 1:03:42
  have my own qualms with Morgan Freeman's opinions on ways to
• 1:03:45
  solve race and we can talk about that later if you're interested,
• 1:03:47
  but it to this particular subject, I do agree in a sense
• 1:03:50
  that Black History Month, like many things in the American
• 1:03:53
  public do. And so let me just start with
• 1:03:56
  admitting my own ignorance. Do you have a Black History
• 1:03:57
  Month in the UK? Is that like a common thing
• 1:03:59
  worldwide? Also, I wasn't aware of that so
• 1:04:01
  I'll retract my critique of just American population then but the
• 1:04:06
  Black History Month is what a lot of Societies do in what I
• 1:04:11
  call a Band-Aid to a gunshot fix, right?
• 1:04:14
  Put something on at the kind of makes it look like it's getting
• 1:04:16
  better, but they don't actually fix the root of the issue.
• 1:04:19
  Why do we need Black History Month?
• 1:04:20
  Well, we need black history month because black is raising a
• 1:04:22
  total. Why isn't black history being
• 1:04:24
  talks? Because it's not integrated into
• 1:04:25
  history as you to your point its history.
• 1:04:28
  Why is it different? Why is it different that a black
• 1:04:30
  person did something compared to a white person doing it?
• 1:04:32
  Why are we ignoring the contributions of them and making
• 1:04:35
  it a separate thing? We don't need that.
• 1:04:37
  What you need is integration do need to integrate.
• 1:04:39
  Black story into and I'll go back to American Center care for
• 1:04:42
  a second just because it's the only really country feel
• 1:04:45
  comfortable talking about because I had the level of
• 1:04:46
  knowledge about right here, in America.
• 1:04:49
  Black people are inextricably linked to the everything that
• 1:04:52
  has been done in this country. The White House was built by
• 1:04:54
  black people, literally, like by slaves, right?
• 1:04:56
  And everything like that. So cool, right?
• 1:04:57
  Yeah. You can't pull them out of that
• 1:04:59
  history, so why are we separating that history?
• 1:05:01
  It's part of everything that is gone on here.
• 1:05:03
  So bring them into the picture. Tell those stories.
• 1:05:05
  What? Tell about Emmett Till tell
• 1:05:07
  about, you know, the, the Tulsa race riot.
• 1:05:09
  Except but also tell the positive.
• 1:05:11
  I don't want to just learn about George, Washington, Carver and
• 1:05:12
  his freaking peanuts. Right?
• 1:05:13
  Why does why is that a thing that everybody knows about.
• 1:05:16
  But we don't know about all these other major things.
• 1:05:17
  One of the cool stories that I've recently learned only
• 1:05:20
  probably over the past 18 months or so it's a story of Uncle
• 1:05:23
  nearest. So Uncle nearest was a black
• 1:05:26
  enslaved person who taught Jack Daniels, how to make whiskey and
• 1:05:30
  so interesting. Yes.
• 1:05:32
  Oh, that's, that's part of the things.
• 1:05:33
  We don't know the Jack Daniels to.
• 1:05:35
  I didn't know he was taught by a Slave, how to make whiskey.
• 1:05:37
  And so, I now the his He's out his descendants.
• 1:05:41
  They have their own whiskey brand.
• 1:05:42
  And the cool thing about that is Jack Daniels is sponsors.
• 1:05:44
  It Jack Daniels made a huge donation to them and Jack
• 1:05:47
  Daniels, mentions, Uncle nearest on their webpage.
• 1:05:49
  They talked about how he taught Jack Daniels how to make was.
• 1:05:51
  They don't hide from it. They're not running from it,
• 1:05:53
  they're like look we made mistakes.
• 1:05:54
  Here's how we're going to fix it and I think that's awesome.
• 1:05:57
  That's admirable and how you do that?
• 1:05:59
  Because nobody's saying that these mistakes need to be erased
• 1:06:01
  from history but you have to work to fix them and that's the
• 1:06:03
  way you do it. You give some donation if you
• 1:06:05
  can. I'm not saying everything is
• 1:06:07
  related to money, right? But you give a donation.
• 1:06:09
  To the company so they can start their own brand now.
• 1:06:11
  And then you also mention them on the web page and that's part
• 1:06:13
  of history. Now, that's part of Jack
• 1:06:14
  Daniels, history. That's not Black Jack Daniels,
• 1:06:16
  history. It's just Jack Daniels history.
• 1:06:18
  And that's what we need to see for all these type of things
• 1:06:21
  integrate them into. So Black History Month, doesn't
• 1:06:22
  need to happen because you have all this black history
• 1:06:25
  throughout everything you're talking about.
• 1:06:27
  You know, if we want to get specific to civil rights, you
• 1:06:29
  talk about Malcolm X, talk about James Baldwin, Martin Luther
• 1:06:32
  King jr. All these different people,
• 1:06:33
  right? I do agree with that sentiment
• 1:06:36
  that there's no need for Black History Month.
• 1:06:37
  If you do the real work, but Can't let happen either is to
• 1:06:41
  erase Black History Month, saying it's no longer needed but
• 1:06:43
  not in a great black stories into his right.
• 1:06:46
  Yeah, exactly. And as it stands the true for,
• 1:06:48
  like you said, you for sick, people for Indian people for
• 1:06:50
  Pakistani, people, for Persian people, whatever, you know,
• 1:06:53
  people who have had a hand in any Nation history.
• 1:06:56
  They should be part of it. It shouldn't be a segment in
• 1:06:58
  piece of it, you know, I couldn't agree more and I
• 1:07:01
  couldn't agree more. Well, I did not expect us to go
• 1:07:04
  so heavily into this. But, you know, it's, I think
• 1:07:07
  it's an important discussion to have.
• 1:07:08
  I'm glad We're having it. And so I thank you for that by
• 1:07:11
  the way. Just on a side note.
• 1:07:13
  It's organic and just we just naturally LED down that path.
• 1:07:15
  I'm cool with it. Since some just to sort of tie a
• 1:07:18
  bow on it, I wanted to kind of just ask about like your
• 1:07:21
  personal upbringing and the challenges you faced sort of
• 1:07:25
  growing up as a black man in America lie, what were your
• 1:07:27
  personal experiences and challenges?
• 1:07:31
  So I would say, oh my perspective is pretty unique in
• 1:07:34
  a lot of ways. Just because, as I said from the
• 1:07:36
  beginning, I multiracial my mother is white and my Is black.
• 1:07:39
  And so, from a very young age, I was confronted with it in a way
• 1:07:43
  that other single race people may not be.
• 1:07:47
  And what I mean by that is if I go out in public with my father,
• 1:07:50
  already treats me one way. If I go out in public with my
• 1:07:52
  mother, they treat me a whole other way.
• 1:07:54
  People have still to this day, of course, and we're much older
• 1:07:57
  now, but people have a hard time associating, me with my mother,
• 1:08:02
  even though I have her dimples, I have her nose, you know?
• 1:08:04
  I mean, I resemble my mother far more than I resemble.
• 1:08:06
  My father, other than the metal in it, and my skin.
• 1:08:09
  So when I'd go out with my mother and I was younger, they
• 1:08:11
  would, is this the neighbor's kid like they would ask as if I
• 1:08:14
  wasn't her child? Right?
• 1:08:16
  And so as a as a child, when you're seeing this and you're
• 1:08:19
  going, that's my mother. That's the person who I love
• 1:08:21
  more than anything in this world and all the stuff you have the
• 1:08:23
  traditional, you know, mother-son relationship, and
• 1:08:26
  then you see everyone else in the world question it, that's
• 1:08:28
  when you front it first starts to click for you that
• 1:08:30
  something's different. Something is a little bit
• 1:08:32
  different about me compared to her and all this stuff and so it
• 1:08:34
  shapes your entire perception of how the world relates to race.
• 1:08:37
  Not specifically you. The world and my mother is very
• 1:08:40
  defiant by the way. She's not a subtle woman when it
• 1:08:43
  comes to these type of things coming from a small town in the
• 1:08:48
  midwest, as we did, when people would stare, they would just
• 1:08:50
  stare out, right? Stare at the sea below.
• 1:08:52
  What are you staring at? What she would blow them kisses,
• 1:08:55
  she would blow them kisses and, like, just antagonizing them.
• 1:08:57
  And I'm not that person. I'm not very antagonistic when
• 1:09:00
  it comes to those type of things because like Jesus, like I'm not
• 1:09:02
  trying my mother. She'll like, if we need a
• 1:09:04
  fistfight in this restaurant will fistfight in this
• 1:09:07
  restaurant, like a mom. Calm down a little When you do
• 1:09:09
  it anyways. Um, so there's that perspective
• 1:09:12
  of it, just growing up is mixed and everything like that.
• 1:09:13
  And then there's you know, when I was one of the first my first
• 1:09:16
  experience that I can remember, we're dealing with racism or
• 1:09:18
  Prejudice was pre-kindergarten so I'm 45 ish or something like
• 1:09:23
  that and there's a kid who tells me that black people are dumb
• 1:09:28
  and because you're black you're dumb and that was just his whole
• 1:09:31
  logic chain of attaching those two facts together, right?
• 1:09:33
  And so that is one of the things that first attracted me to being
• 1:09:38
  diverse, am I Tabular and being a good communicator.
• 1:09:40
  Because at that age, I thought intelligence was related to the
• 1:09:43
  way you communicate because, you know, as a child that's how you
• 1:09:45
  see things. If somebody can talk really
• 1:09:47
  well, you like, oh they must be smart.
• 1:09:49
  So that made me really attracted to communication.
• 1:09:52
  And so my entire life, I've really liked words, I like to
• 1:09:55
  use a diverse work, a Bueller. I do use overly formal language
• 1:09:58
  a lot on purpose because I think it's for me, just like the way I
• 1:10:00
  like to talk and it stems from that experience, but then
• 1:10:03
  there's other ones, you know, I remember this one's it doesn't
• 1:10:08
  sound funny but it's fun. Me to me and I'll tell you why
• 1:10:10
  after I say the first part, but I remember, when I was stationed
• 1:10:13
  in Georgia, getting a call on my cell phone and I answered, I
• 1:10:17
  don't know. The number and this is back when
• 1:10:18
  I was still answering numbers. I do know.
• 1:10:20
  And I'm like, hello. And on the all I hear from the
• 1:10:22
  other one is if you're gonna die in word, that's all they say.
• 1:10:25
  Right? And then been sort of like I
• 1:10:27
  hang up. And so the reason I laugh at
• 1:10:29
  that story is it's it's still messed up, it's still a pretty
• 1:10:32
  terrible experience, right? But it turns out that I kiss
• 1:10:35
  this guy's girlfriend and I didn't know it was his
• 1:10:38
  girlfriend. He was upset and that was like,
• 1:10:40
  him getting back at me or whatever and then we talked
• 1:10:43
  about it and we had a beer together after that and
• 1:10:45
  everything. But, but like yeah.
• 1:10:46
  So you have those kind of experiences where it's always
• 1:10:48
  there. But back then you suck em back
• 1:10:51
  up a sec. Yeah.
• 1:10:52
  But like he still could you that though, you know.
• 1:10:55
  I don't know. Yeah yeah.
• 1:10:56
  Did he did he apologize for that?
• 1:10:59
  Yeah. Yeah, he did.
• 1:11:00
  He but again, in so to let me say this having gone back
• 1:11:03
  several years. Now I'm looking on it, whatever
• 1:11:05
  it still doesn't, make what he did.
• 1:11:06
  Right? What he did is still in
• 1:11:08
  defensive Oil. And it's bad.
• 1:11:09
  And everything in the context of that situation, I was trying to
• 1:11:13
  be understanding, was trying not to be confrontational and also
• 1:11:16
  just to be, you could be completely Frank as a black guy
• 1:11:19
  in southern Georgia, whose military and like it did not
• 1:11:23
  seem in my favorite to get into a fight in a club.
• 1:11:27
  I mean it just was not something that would be wise to and I just
• 1:11:30
  didn't need that kind of conversation but don't tell you
• 1:11:33
  you have all those kinds of incidents that happen all the
• 1:11:35
  time. Then you have what I think it's
• 1:11:37
  really hard for a lot of people to understand is Those kind of
• 1:11:40
  overt racism. Things are not the problem.
• 1:11:42
  Yes, they are a problem but they're not the problem.
• 1:11:44
  Those I can see I can call it a mile away.
• 1:11:46
  I can show you on paper. Why they were racist?
• 1:11:49
  That's easy. What's harder for me to deal
• 1:11:51
  with is somebody who is not reacting like right now you and
• 1:11:54
  I are having a conversation. I'm not saying anything
• 1:11:56
  offensive to you. You're not reacting as if saying
• 1:11:58
  in the game if it's it but there's times when I'm doing the
• 1:12:00
  same thing and people are they're reacting as if I'm
• 1:12:02
  saying something offensive to them consistently and it feels
• 1:12:05
  like it's something to do with my race because I'm not I'm not
• 1:12:08
  I'm not a Religion your race. I'm not disagreeing with you
• 1:12:10
  even we're just talking in general but you're not reacting
• 1:12:13
  to the same energy that I'm putting out.
• 1:12:14
  You have your own thing going on.
• 1:12:15
  That could be just a mental health issue.
• 1:12:17
  It could be something. They're having a bad day, could
• 1:12:19
  be a lot of things but that's what we're talking about.
• 1:12:21
  It gets harder to pick out those pieces of that subtle Prejudice
• 1:12:24
  and racism. And did I not get that job
• 1:12:26
  because I wasn't qualified possibly or did I not get it?
• 1:12:28
  Because I the guy saw me you know because I've had people do
• 1:12:32
  that when I talk on the phone, I don't sound stereotypically
• 1:12:35
  black. I guess you know people don't
• 1:12:36
  pick my voice out at the crowd as black, so When I meet them in
• 1:12:39
  person like and this is one of the military, right?
• 1:12:41
  So when I was in the military, I would like, hey, this is
• 1:12:44
  Sergeant Kerry, and I have to wear that on my, my name, excuse
• 1:12:47
  me, on my, on my chest, you can see my name and you can also see
• 1:12:51
  on my sleeve my ranks. You could put two in together,
• 1:12:53
  but even with those evidence people wouldn't see me as me,
• 1:12:57
  even though they have talked to them, a bunch of times that
• 1:12:58
  because of my voice. And because of what they
• 1:13:00
  perceive me to be without having seen a picture or a video of me,
• 1:13:03
  they walk right? Past me, they wouldn't even
• 1:13:05
  like, hey, I'm are you Tom from X company, like, oh, yeah, and
• 1:13:09
  Be still and know your sergeant carrying stuff.
• 1:13:11
  Like I'm like, yeah, I was wearing the shirt the whole time
• 1:13:12
  but because I didn't look like what you thought I would look
• 1:13:14
  like or other things in, you know, you go into those take
• 1:13:17
  thing. So, it's the overt racism sucks.
• 1:13:21
  It's not fun. I'll say that but it's not it.
• 1:13:24
  The part that bothers me, it's the underlying subtle stuff that
• 1:13:28
  I can't really pick out because then I have to have that
• 1:13:30
  conversation with myself and I'm never really certain like what's
• 1:13:33
  that person being racist or am I being sensitive?
• 1:13:35
  Was I'm not qualified like you so it creates its internal
• 1:13:38
  dialogue with myself. Elf or monologue, really, I
• 1:13:40
  guess where, I never really sure where I sit.
• 1:13:44
  Where do I need to improve in these areas or could I just
• 1:13:48
  never improve enough for that person was I never going to be
• 1:13:50
  able to get through because anybody who plays online video
• 1:13:53
  games, go to the Call of Duty Lobby, you're gonna hear the
• 1:13:55
  n-word a million times. So it's not like, it's not one
• 1:13:59
  of those things were, that's what hurts.
• 1:14:02
  It's the other things were, you know, an ex-girlfriend of mine
• 1:14:06
  using the N word around me, white people that I'm friends
• 1:14:08
  with using it. Word around me that hurts a lot
• 1:14:10
  more because these are people who supposed to understand what
• 1:14:14
  it is to be friends at least with a black person.
• 1:14:16
  If not a black experience. I just don't understand the kind
• 1:14:20
  of his callous the right word just just like, just people just
• 1:14:24
  use it and then don't think about it and it's like, what?
• 1:14:29
  Like, I don't know. Just, you know what I mean?
• 1:14:30
  Like like I remember seeing this recently, certain black people
• 1:14:35
  talking about like how like no one should use it, including bad
• 1:14:38
  people but obviously like Like its popularized in modern rap
• 1:14:41
  and has been for many many decades at this point.
• 1:14:44
  And it's like, I think that's, the problem is, it keeps being
• 1:14:48
  used and now it's almost like a term of endearment in the back
• 1:14:53
  of unity, which I'll never understand.
• 1:14:55
  As long as I live. I don't like doing that.
• 1:14:57
  Hey, I can break that down for you A Million Ways because black
• 1:15:00
  people aren't the only people who do that.
• 1:15:02
  Yeah, no, no. I know.
• 1:15:03
  I know. I know.
• 1:15:04
  It's just right, right? You thought I'd just I mean when
• 1:15:06
  I say that, I mean like homosexual men will call them.
• 1:15:09
  The f word but it's offensive if I say it.
• 1:15:11
  Right? And I understand that and I'm
• 1:15:13
  not I'm not fighting that when I'm saying this whatever, but
• 1:15:15
  one of the things you see across common oppressed groups, women
• 1:15:19
  calling each other, the be work. Compared to a man calling a
• 1:15:22
  dude, is that you try to do it to lessen the impact of it.
• 1:15:25
  One of the the I don't know if this is a thing in the UK or
• 1:15:28
  not. But are you familiar with What's
• 1:15:30
  called the dozens? No not sixer.
• 1:15:33
  So in Black America that doesn't usually just a colloquial term
• 1:15:37
  for making fun of one another and so there's a lot of black
• 1:15:40
  people make fun of each other. A lot of that stems from a
• 1:15:43
  culture of because the outside world did it so much.
• 1:15:46
  They needed to toughen up. They need to harden each other,
• 1:15:48
  so they be made it a Pastime. So it's fun because they're
• 1:15:52
  going to get that so much that we can't have it.
• 1:15:54
  The first time that you experience, this experience, be
• 1:15:56
  the outside world and they did the same thing with the N word
• 1:15:58
  and you see the same thing in like a lot of the press, but
• 1:16:00
  you'll see it in the military. Certain names that other
• 1:16:03
  military members could call each other.
• 1:16:04
  That's a civilian calling. It would be really offensive and
• 1:16:07
  they might want to fight them or something like that, right?
• 1:16:09
  And so that's a common tactic that humans.
• 1:16:11
  Use to lessen the impact of something we can't avoid.
• 1:16:14
  It's almost like a vaccine if you will.
• 1:16:15
  Right. I'm not this specific covid
• 1:16:17
  vaccine because I want to go down that rabbit hole but like
• 1:16:19
  influenza vaccine, isn't that? We're gonna give you a weakened
• 1:16:21
  form this train so you can get used to it.
• 1:16:24
  It's the same thing with calling each other, the n-word same
• 1:16:26
  thing with calling a homosexual men killing each other, the f
• 1:16:28
  word when it comes to the b word or any number of me.
• 1:16:31
  Making fun of each other. So we're more ready for it on
• 1:16:34
  the outside world. Now, am I saying?
• 1:16:35
  That's right. No, I'm just make it clear.
• 1:16:38
  I'm not building the case of white, okay, I'm just saying
• 1:16:40
  that if you look at how it got there, you can kind of
• 1:16:43
  understand what you're seeing and why it's that way that it
• 1:16:45
  is. Now.
• 1:16:46
  Now I do agree with the overall concept that probably nobody
• 1:16:49
  should use it but I don't think that's realistic either because
• 1:16:52
  when has in the history of human humans, have we ever found
• 1:16:56
  something and then just stop doing it unless it kills us,
• 1:16:59
  we're not going to do that. So what's probably going to be
• 1:17:01
  the Through ality not in our lifetime.
• 1:17:03
  But in several lifetimes after us probably, is it?
• 1:17:05
  Everybody just kind of over that word that seems to be the only
• 1:17:09
  logical possible. Outcome of that.
• 1:17:11
  Would you be like, no one will use it or just everyone will use
• 1:17:13
  it, that it? Why do we swear?
• 1:17:17
  We swear because we're not supposed to write.
• 1:17:20
  So when we stopped by, we're not supposed to use the N word
• 1:17:23
  anymore, it'll probably die down a lot.
• 1:17:25
  The reason that people use it as much as they do is because
• 1:17:27
  you're not supposed to be its it is the taboo of it.
• 1:17:30
  That's why we're so attracted to it.
• 1:17:31
  That's why people fight so hard to say it in the.
• 1:17:34
  And again, I don't think that necessarily applies to the black
• 1:17:36
  community as much because like you said that's it's a huge part
• 1:17:39
  of the culture now. But for people who can't say,
• 1:17:41
  the reason they want to say it so much is because they're not
• 1:17:44
  supposed to, you know what I mean?
• 1:17:45
  And so once you lose that you're not supposed to say it then it
• 1:17:48
  just becomes another word and then it kind of loses all of its
• 1:17:50
  meaning just like we say stuff now in common conversation that
• 1:17:54
  are super offensive if we lived in the 1800's or 1700 you know
• 1:17:58
  what I mean. So I think we have a pattern of
• 1:18:00
  thats how language seems to go. I believe that's ultimately what
• 1:18:03
  will happen now. My saying that I'm going to push
• 1:18:05
  her that Trend now. No it might do I believe it's
• 1:18:07
  going to happen in our lifetime as I said before.
• 1:18:09
  No. But I do logically think that's
• 1:18:11
  ultimately where we go with this is that it stops being as taboo
• 1:18:14
  and therefore just kind of falls out of favor as a racist word
• 1:18:17
  because it won't have the same impact and I agree with you.
• 1:18:21
  Let's move the conversation, forward.
• 1:18:23
  Obviously, you mentioned quite a few times that you've been in
• 1:18:26
  the military. So from what I have in my notes
• 1:18:29
  Here you were involved in the military as an On combat officer
• 1:18:33
  in the Air Force for 10 years. So what exactly did you do?
• 1:18:36
  During this time? Talk to us a little bit about
• 1:18:37
  your moto career? Sure.
• 1:18:39
  Absolutely. So I want to start with just
• 1:18:41
  making sure people understand. I joined the military for what I
• 1:18:43
  believe is the most common people join the military and
• 1:18:46
  it's not talked about as often as I should be, is because I was
• 1:18:48
  poor, I had no future opportunities.
• 1:18:51
  I didn't know what I was doing with my life and the military
• 1:18:53
  provided a structure. It provided a way to go to
• 1:18:55
  school and provide it all these different things, right?
• 1:18:57
  So I wasn't somebody who was like, I got to serve my country,
• 1:18:59
  do all these super things. Now, did I become proud of that?
• 1:19:01
  I was in the service. Absolutely.
• 1:19:03
  But that's not why I joined, that's not what most people
• 1:19:05
  join. So I joined when I was just
• 1:19:08
  about to turn 20, I tried to make it on my own for two years
• 1:19:11
  after high school, I had dropped out of college.
• 1:19:14
  I had some student loan debt, like just some very traditional
• 1:19:18
  screw up stuff, if you will. Who same thing you said you were
• 1:19:20
  doing with your life when you were working at the supermarket.
• 1:19:23
  That's where I was right? So I joined it when I was about
• 1:19:26
  to turn 20, and I went to my recruiter lied, to me, I went to
• 1:19:31
  basic training, Ting thinking I was going to do one job but I
• 1:19:33
  wasn't qualified for that job because of my student loan debt.
• 1:19:35
  I couldn't get a top secret clearance so I had to get Pickle
• 1:19:38
  bottle back up back up. You'll yeah.
• 1:19:40
  Loan your student loan affected your military?
• 1:19:46
  I don't understand. So when you're going to get a
• 1:19:49
  top secret clearance, which is what I needed for the job, I was
• 1:19:52
  trying to get they look at your debt, history, your credit
• 1:19:55
  history and if you have outstanding debts that you
• 1:19:57
  haven't paid on, which I didn't have a job and stuff like that.
• 1:19:59
  So I wasn't able to pay on some of these things and they were
• 1:20:01
  delinquent Biggest qualify, you can't they consider you a threat
• 1:20:05
  to take a bribe from, like a foreign country or something
• 1:20:07
  like that. And to sell out secrets of the
• 1:20:09
  United States, which is wounded. But because they think that
• 1:20:13
  maybe because you're in a compromised situation with your
• 1:20:16
  debts, that mate. Oh my God.
• 1:20:19
  But to make it even dumber, the job that I signed up for had a
• 1:20:22
  ten thousand dollar sign on bonus.
• 1:20:24
  My combined debt was like 5 grand.
• 1:20:27
  Could you imagine I'm gonna, I'm gonna sell secrets to the Saudis
• 1:20:30
  to compare for student. Like what again there?
• 1:20:34
  Now let me be clear. If you're a lawyer, that sounds
• 1:20:36
  a lot different cause that's like, 300 Grand in student loan
• 1:20:38
  debt, that makes a lot more sense.
• 1:20:40
  I had five thousand dollars of unpaid debt or something like
• 1:20:43
  that. It's like super low nothing.
• 1:20:44
  And I'm like, so yeah. But yeah.
• 1:20:47
  So I couldn't, I couldn't no longer get that job and when I
• 1:20:51
  was in basic training, they're like, hey, you've got to pick a
• 1:20:52
  new job and we're gonna give you like 20 minutes because they
• 1:20:55
  wouldn't, they wouldn't let me out of my contract because they
• 1:20:58
  felt like I lied on the contract, which by all technical
• 1:21:01
  rules. I did.
• 1:21:01
  Did. But, I did.
• 1:21:02
  So because my recruiter told me to she will let me say it this
• 1:21:05
  way, she was very smart. She didn't tell me to all she
• 1:21:08
  said was like, look, if you say no to some of these things or
• 1:21:10
  say yes. And some of these things, you
• 1:21:12
  can't get this job and then I didn't literally wink.
• 1:21:14
  But there's heavy wink energy in the air if you will, right?
• 1:21:18
  So, um, so anyways, so I ended up going through all that and
• 1:21:22
  having to pick a new job. And one thing I learned about
• 1:21:26
  myself, when I was in basic training is that sleep,
• 1:21:28
  deprivation gets to me and makes me very emotional.
• 1:21:32
  I would also oppose. I mean basic training in general
• 1:21:33
  is a very high-stress situation because there's a lot of yelling
• 1:21:36
  you don't know what's going on, you're worried about a ton of
• 1:21:38
  things, you know. But so anyways, I was very
• 1:21:41
  emotional and they give you like, 20 minutes to pick a job.
• 1:21:43
  And I'm like, I have a friend who I know who also joined the
• 1:21:45
  Navy recently, who's going to this base, to do a job in this
• 1:21:49
  area. So I'm gonna go there, that's
• 1:21:51
  about was like, 90%. I think it was a non-combat
• 1:21:53
  position. It was going to go somewhere
• 1:21:55
  where I knew somebody and like I'm going to do that and so I
• 1:21:57
  picked graphic arts did that for like a year and a half and then
• 1:22:01
  they do. Did it.
• 1:22:02
  So then I just didn't have a job for a period of like two years I
• 1:22:05
  kind of just get odds and ends for other people.
• 1:22:08
  It's really depressed. Got super overweight was like
• 1:22:10
  smoking was just not in a good place at all mentally because I
• 1:22:14
  again felt like I didn't have a future.
• 1:22:15
  Didn't know what I was doing with my life and everything and
• 1:22:17
  then eventually I cross train which is picking a new job, new
• 1:22:21
  career field. You're gonna go back to school
• 1:22:23
  in the military to, for that job and everything for what's called
• 1:22:25
  Contracting, which is a very good field in my opinion because
• 1:22:30
  it had a lot of crossover To this, the private sector, the
• 1:22:33
  civilian sector. And so then I cross training to
• 1:22:36
  that re-enlisted did that for for, for 25 years.
• 1:22:40
  Throughout my military service, by the way, I did two tours to
• 1:22:43
  Qatar, which when you, whenever I talk about Vegas, it always
• 1:22:47
  reminds me Qatar, because Qatar is like the same thing because
• 1:22:50
  are you familiar with do ha, not met.
• 1:22:53
  That says you've been wearing this family but you know, so so
• 1:22:56
  Doha Qatar is a massive like Skyscraper City.
• 1:23:01
  Qatar Our qataris in general very, very wealthy.
• 1:23:03
  They have a ton of money but to buy 2.0 basically, yeah,
• 1:23:07
  exactly. That's what they're trying to
• 1:23:08
  compete with the trying to compete with UAE and everything
• 1:23:09
  like that. So when you're in Qatar, it's
• 1:23:11
  exactly like Vegas. It's desert desert desert desert
• 1:23:14
  skyscrapers lights, all this city and stuff like that.
• 1:23:16
  It's really disorienting because you're like, none of this is
• 1:23:19
  supposed to be here. It's really weird.
• 1:23:21
  But, anyway, so I did two tours. That guitar while I was in a non
• 1:23:24
  combat deployments. And I cross, rented a
• 1:23:27
  Contracting and ended up doing that for about five years, with
• 1:23:30
  my last year being in. 15 where I went to Qatar from January to
• 1:23:35
  August of that year. So I was deployed for about
• 1:23:37
  seven months of that year came back and then got out finish, my
• 1:23:41
  bachelor's degree. While I was in the service, I've
• 1:23:43
  since completed, my Master's Degree as well, all paid for by
• 1:23:46
  the United States government. So, wow.
• 1:23:49
  No. Student loan debt for me now.
• 1:23:51
  But I altogether, I did just shy of 11 years in the United States
• 1:23:55
  Air Force. So wow, you mentioned like some
• 1:24:01
  some of the The difficult times you have.
• 1:24:03
  But what would you say? I kind of like the worst moments
• 1:24:05
  that you had during your service.
• 1:24:06
  Like, overall during that time because eleven years is a long
• 1:24:09
  time, I would definitely say it's at the kind of that time
• 1:24:12
  that I was talking about there. So when when I got my job
• 1:24:18
  deleted and I didn't know what I was doing, I also happen to put
• 1:24:21
  on the highest rank that I was ever going to get in the
• 1:24:22
  service, which is Staff Sergeant, right.
• 1:24:24
  So I got the role of I got the first leadership position that I
• 1:24:28
  could have had in the military and then at the since I didn't
• 1:24:31
  have a job and I had really young officers ahead beating me.
• 1:24:35
  They made me an errand boy, so I'm like I did all this work to
• 1:24:39
  get, you know, this high this higher ranking position, studied
• 1:24:43
  for it. Passed the test at all the stuff
• 1:24:44
  or whatever. And then now, I'm back to the,
• 1:24:47
  like the lowest rank I've ever been basically in the, my
• 1:24:49
  day-to-day operations, somehow. I'm working everything like
• 1:24:51
  that. So, I just felt like I had no
• 1:24:54
  forward momentum. Didn't know what I was doing.
• 1:24:55
  And so, like I said, I was just doing a lot of things that
• 1:24:58
  weren't healthy for myself. I also was behaving poorly, I
• 1:25:00
  got in some trouble. Do not like major trouble or
• 1:25:03
  anything like that, but some trouble here and there with
• 1:25:05
  stuff and I just did things that I'm not proud of, so I'd say
• 1:25:07
  that's probably my darkest time for the military because outside
• 1:25:10
  of that the military is in some ways.
• 1:25:12
  It's what you make it and there's a lot of opportunity
• 1:25:14
  there and it's cool that you get to meet so many people from all
• 1:25:18
  around the world you get to travel.
• 1:25:19
  I like I said that was the first time I'd ever left the country
• 1:25:22
  was to go to Qatar. And so on the way to Qatar I
• 1:25:25
  stopped and we stopped in Germany, stopped in Italy and
• 1:25:28
  stuff like that. And so and then you're a guitar
• 1:25:30
  and then I'm meeting people from there.
• 1:25:31
  Yurii Sri Lanka, Indonesia, just all over the world right?
• 1:25:36
  You know and so I overall look at my military service is very
• 1:25:39
  positive because of the experiences I got to do but that
• 1:25:43
  period of time which is probably about 18 months or two years was
• 1:25:47
  bad and could have could have ended it with me getting in a
• 1:25:50
  lot of trouble, depending on what I would have gotten into or
• 1:25:53
  you know, what I would have gotten caught doing and stuff
• 1:25:54
  like that. So I'm just thankful that I
• 1:25:56
  didn't, that didn't happen to me, but at the same time, I'd
• 1:25:58
  say that was my darkest period was just Drugs or something.
• 1:26:03
  No, no, just, you know, like we'd go to a bar and then I
• 1:26:06
  would drive home or something like that, you know?
• 1:26:07
  Oh, putting myself in danger and putting others in danger.
• 1:26:10
  I'm, I'm okay. No should've gotten in trouble
• 1:26:13
  with that. So, it's a frame, this more, it
• 1:26:15
  was more like cuz your mindset is, is like frustration, you
• 1:26:20
  know, like you say like you this is where you're at, as far as
• 1:26:23
  your rank, but then, this is how you're being treated as that.
• 1:26:25
  So it's more kind of like frustration and not knowing what
• 1:26:28
  to do. And then obviously, when that
• 1:26:30
  happens you get that. Tommy, I've experienced
• 1:26:32
  something similar. I've had jobs where, you know, I
• 1:26:35
  remember one job I had, I'd been promoted and towards the end of
• 1:26:39
  that role before I quit the job. Like, I literally was doing
• 1:26:44
  nothing because I've done all my work and like they won't give me
• 1:26:47
  any new work and they were just waiting for me to leave and I
• 1:26:50
  just never felt more useless in my entire life.
• 1:26:52
  Like I just I was I was blown away.
• 1:26:54
  I was like, they're still paying me to do nothing.
• 1:26:57
  My daughter, why not? Just let me go now.
• 1:26:59
  I don't understand this at all and you are Him with the
• 1:27:02
  military to the military is not just a job, it's your entire
• 1:27:05
  life and a lot of ways because I was stationed in middle of
• 1:27:09
  nowhere. Basically, Georgia, you know, a
• 1:27:11
  very small town in southern Georgia where there's not a lot
• 1:27:14
  to do. I don't really have like, I
• 1:27:16
  don't know many of the people here, you know?
• 1:27:19
  And so it's like it's you never get away from it.
• 1:27:21
  Like, if I had a bad job here now and like, say Miami or
• 1:27:24
  somewhere like stuff like that, I have Mobility.
• 1:27:27
  I can choose what I'm doing. I can quit I can go do it like
• 1:27:30
  with the military none of those are options.
• 1:27:31
  You're locked in. You can't if you if I start try
• 1:27:33
  to leave the military, I'm a wall.
• 1:27:35
  I'm now a federal I'm committing federal crimes, I'm going to be
• 1:27:39
  dishonorably discharged will ruin my life and like, all these
• 1:27:41
  type of thing. I'm going to go to jail,
• 1:27:42
  probably, right? So like, it's just very imposing
• 1:27:46
  feeling and what I had there was obviously depression.
• 1:27:49
  That's why I was taking risky Behavior, that's why I was doing
• 1:27:51
  all these stupid things and everything I was depressed.
• 1:27:54
  I'm heavily depressed. And, you know, back then I
• 1:27:57
  wasn't as aware as an adult as I am now and so I couldn't die.
• 1:28:01
  Enos myself, couldn't go get the help that I should have gotten
• 1:28:03
  that. I could have needed and I
• 1:28:04
  couldn't find positive outlets for that energy and everything
• 1:28:07
  like that. So you see, that's why you see
• 1:28:09
  the risk behavior. Is why you see me doing stupid
• 1:28:10
  stuff. So I can look back and say I was
• 1:28:13
  very depressed during those times and definitely should have
• 1:28:15
  gotten some counseling and definitely should have gotten
• 1:28:16
  some help. And I just got lucky more than
• 1:28:19
  anything that I didn't ruin somebody else's life or my own.
• 1:28:22
  That's really all it was with luck.
• 1:28:24
  Well, thanks for sharing now let's fix the vibe.
• 1:28:28
  Yeah that's good. - best moments of your military service.
• 1:28:32
  Oh man, the best moments. That was a lot.
• 1:28:34
  So this is going to sound the first one.
• 1:28:35
  I'll start with a nerdy one because it's just for me, it was
• 1:28:37
  good. It's I got to work on what they
• 1:28:41
  call a protest in the military while I was in Qatar because
• 1:28:45
  they trusted in me. And so what that is is
• 1:28:46
  essentially the military awards contracts based upon certain
• 1:28:50
  criteria that we put out and we get bids and everybody had get
• 1:28:53
  to compete. And the people who lose those
• 1:28:57
  contracts have a big weapon, they can use called a protest
• 1:29:00
  where they essentially send A request to the general Services
• 1:29:04
  Administration, and United States, which is in DC.
• 1:29:06
  So like, you know, Congressional level type thing to review what
• 1:29:10
  happened and see if we did our job properly.
• 1:29:13
  And so you don't get to do those very often in the states and you
• 1:29:17
  really don't get to be involved in them at my, my rank that I
• 1:29:20
  was and everything, but because we were deployed and I knew more
• 1:29:23
  about the career field than a lot of the other people didn't
• 1:29:25
  they like, hey could you help with this?
• 1:29:27
  And so, and I'm at work for like 10 12 hours a day, just like
• 1:29:30
  reading. It's hundreds of pages of
• 1:29:32
  documents that I had nothing to do with trying to figure out the
• 1:29:35
  logic chain and why this happened when did this do?
• 1:29:37
  And so that was really cool experience for me, just because
• 1:29:39
  it was really affirming in my career.
• 1:29:42
  But also I'd say, getting the travel to Qatar was obviously,
• 1:29:45
  really, really cool because I landed in Qatar, on the day that
• 1:29:48
  President Obama was elected the first time.
• 1:29:50
  Oh, so like, that's how we've been traveling for 36 hours at
• 1:29:54
  that point. I think and I hadn't slept the
• 1:29:55
  whole way and so I was so tired when we landed the election was
• 1:30:00
  over and I we didn't know if he was going to Irwin or John
• 1:30:02
  McCain was going to win, right? And so I was like, I can't, I
• 1:30:05
  can't stay awake anymore. I've got to go to sleep and
• 1:30:08
  everything. So so that was really, really
• 1:30:10
  fun. I actually got to shake
• 1:30:11
  President Obama's hand to duty so that was a cool experience as
• 1:30:15
  well. But just in general at
• 1:30:18
  excitement just building a path for myself, I think was the
• 1:30:21
  biggest part of my career and seeing that people believed in
• 1:30:24
  me, that I was worthwhile worthwhile member of society,
• 1:30:27
  and could contribute to things and had a future for myself, was
• 1:30:30
  probably the overall best part about the Terry's being
• 1:30:32
  entrusted with a lot of responsibility and showing that
• 1:30:34
  I could actually do those things.
• 1:30:36
  You mentioned before, how, you know, you were lucky enough to
• 1:30:41
  sort of have like your schooling paid for in the military aid to
• 1:30:44
  be fair. Like I've seen a lot of
• 1:30:45
  advertisements both here in the UK and in the u.s. about the
• 1:30:48
  benefits of joining the military, but layout for us,
• 1:30:51
  especially as a veteran. What are the benefits while
• 1:30:55
  you're in the military and also coming out of the military?
• 1:30:57
  You know, like what do you kind of set for life that we do also
• 1:31:01
  hear a lot - negatives about how veterans are treated especially
• 1:31:04
  in the state. So like yeah, paint us a map of
• 1:31:06
  what that looks like. So I'll start with the negative
• 1:31:09
  in foot back to the positive just because I do think that
• 1:31:11
  they are very situational. So the negative side of it is
• 1:31:13
  that the military puts people in situations that you are not
• 1:31:17
  supposed to be in. Now, to be fair, this is true of
• 1:31:20
  combat, going back again to the medieval times.
• 1:31:22
  And before that, right human beings are not meant to see
• 1:31:25
  these traumatic things and just be okay with that, you're not
• 1:31:28
  meant to see kids died or your friend.
• 1:31:31
  Shot and died in something. Like that's not normal
• 1:31:33
  experiences that humans are meant to do it.
• 1:31:35
  So the biggest - I see for not myself but for a lot of the
• 1:31:38
  veterans that I know and from, you know, people in my family
• 1:31:41
  even is that they don't take care of them when they get back,
• 1:31:44
  if you went and did something like I did, which is a skill
• 1:31:47
  that translates into the private sector, you're golden, you're
• 1:31:49
  amazing people love you. You're going to get a lot of
• 1:31:52
  opportunities, right? But if you killed people for the
• 1:31:55
  military, what's your future? Like you have?
• 1:31:57
  No future prospects, you get back here to the country and
• 1:31:59
  less is going to evolve going back, and doing that again in a
• 1:32:01
  Vut company and as well as they don't give you mental health
• 1:32:04
  support, they did, the VA is terrible for taking care of the
• 1:32:07
  injuries that you sustained walls in combat and stuff like
• 1:32:09
  that. So for the most important
• 1:32:10
  people, I would say in the military, which is your combat
• 1:32:12
  Fighters, they do not take care of them at all.
• 1:32:15
  They do not support them in meaningful ways that they, they
• 1:32:17
  should. But yeah, just to add to that.
• 1:32:21
  I'm kind of stunned to see like, how many veterans from the
• 1:32:25
  states end up like homeless. It's like that that blows my
• 1:32:29
  mind is like how especially since this Ace has always been
• 1:32:33
  like, very proud of its veterans.
• 1:32:34
  It's always that, you know, that's really something that's
• 1:32:36
  always pushed that surprises me to see that like, how does that
• 1:32:39
  even happen? I mean, obviously, like I know
• 1:32:42
  as you said like if you're just in a straight Marine Corps then
• 1:32:46
  yeah, you don't. Maybe don't have translatable
• 1:32:48
  skills. But isn't it?
• 1:32:49
  Sort of the military's kind of responsibility to make sure that
• 1:32:53
  you have something coming out of the military?
• 1:32:55
  You would think so. But they don't treat it that way
• 1:32:57
  and what's your, what you'll see you.
• 1:32:58
  If you go and you look at most of the homeless veterans, it's
• 1:33:01
  mental. Health issues, which is
• 1:33:02
  something the military is has started to get better at but I
• 1:33:05
  still absolutely Dreadful that right.
• 1:33:08
  And so you're talking about again, you put these people in
• 1:33:10
  these traumatic incidents is because let's talk about it this
• 1:33:12
  way, take out combat for one second.
• 1:33:14
  Right. As I said before, the military
• 1:33:15
  is your entire life, that's an inordinate amount of stress to
• 1:33:18
  put on people. Imagine if you went to a day
• 1:33:21
  job, that would require you to be on call all the time, no
• 1:33:25
  matter what. And then at any given moment
• 1:33:28
  could send you anywhere around the world where you might get
• 1:33:30
  killed or just You know what, we don't want you at your current
• 1:33:33
  location anymore. You move across the world
• 1:33:35
  country to somewhere where you know, nobody the weather's
• 1:33:37
  terrible. There's no redeemable quality of
• 1:33:39
  this place. And then not only that, if you
• 1:33:42
  get mad at your job and you cut your boss, your fire, right?
• 1:33:45
  Or recommend him, something like that, you can potentially go to
• 1:33:48
  jail for cussing out your boss. You can get put into what they
• 1:33:50
  call CC which is a punishment where you have to like go in
• 1:33:55
  like area. Trash.
• 1:33:56
  Dig at rest, give me dig a giant hole bury, a trash can dig a
• 1:33:58
  trash can back up and then clean it and polish it, right.
• 1:34:00
  Just because Was just like it's meant to be punishment.
• 1:34:03
  Well, you can't meet base at all and stuff like that.
• 1:34:05
  Like they have all these restrictions, it can do.
• 1:34:07
  That's realistically can happen to you.
• 1:34:10
  Yes, those are more extreme examples of it.
• 1:34:11
  But what I'm saying is you never get away from that.
• 1:34:13
  Now, add in the combat stress. And then you come out and like I
• 1:34:16
  said, you have no transferable skills.
• 1:34:18
  You have these mental health issues and nobody's helping you
• 1:34:20
  for anything like that. Yeah.
• 1:34:21
  It's it's not only probable that you're going to end up homeless,
• 1:34:25
  it's going to be a lot of those people who do have mental health
• 1:34:29
  issues that they just simply didn't guy did get diagnosed.
• 1:34:31
  Because Can't hold down a job. They can't do any of the stuff
• 1:34:33
  we're talking about, right? So that's I say why the most
• 1:34:36
  some of the most important people in the military are
• 1:34:38
  treated the worst but then you got people like myself or people
• 1:34:42
  in general who are like say the general Workforce, a lot of
• 1:34:44
  those skills do translate to the private sector and even if they
• 1:34:46
  don't you can get out and go to school.
• 1:34:48
  Full time in the military pay, you were going to school because
• 1:34:51
  of the GI bill you literally earn a salary while going to
• 1:34:54
  school. So you don't necessarily have to
• 1:34:56
  work which is good for a lot of people, right?
• 1:34:59
  But what you'll see is that most people in the Military don't
• 1:35:02
  take advantage of the GI bill or what's called ta tuition
• 1:35:05
  assistance. While you're active duty,
• 1:35:07
  they'll pay for school as well. Up to like 4500 dollars a year
• 1:35:09
  or something like that. I think it is.
• 1:35:11
  Wow. And so people, but most of the
• 1:35:13
  forces music, they don't end up getting their degree.
• 1:35:17
  I have a ton of my friends who I'm like dude if you just get
• 1:35:19
  your degree there's so many jobs that will pay you well stuff but
• 1:35:22
  you have to get your degree and like I don't want to go to
• 1:35:23
  school and so they don't. And so they they squander those
• 1:35:27
  resources that are given and I'm not putting that on the
• 1:35:29
  military. That's obviously the members
• 1:35:30
  themselves you Have these options just not take advantage
• 1:35:33
  of it but the biggest benefit that save the military is it's
• 1:35:36
  what I call the greatest starter kit for adulthood that you're
• 1:35:38
  ever going to get. If you're an 18 or 19 year old
• 1:35:41
  kid, who's never really taken care of themselves.
• 1:35:43
  You go to the military, they're going to teach you how they're
• 1:35:45
  going to teach you to show up on time.
• 1:35:46
  They're going to teach you to dress yourself.
• 1:35:47
  Well they're going to give you all the things that you want
• 1:35:50
  without you having to go through like years of being a bad at it,
• 1:35:52
  right. And they give you a skill and a
• 1:35:54
  teach you how to be responsible and then they pay for school
• 1:35:56
  like it's a great starter kit for adulthood if you actually
• 1:36:00
  utilize it in the meat, Evil way, right?
• 1:36:02
  So I think that's one of the biggest benefits of people don't
• 1:36:04
  take advantage of but then outside of that for United
• 1:36:06
  States military, at least again, as I said before, and I keep
• 1:36:08
  saying it pays for school and I've gotten four degrees now the
• 1:36:12
  all been paid for the military. I have no student loan debt
• 1:36:15
  anymore, now obviously for that and they pay for everything.
• 1:36:18
  Also a really, really powerful tool is What's called the VA
• 1:36:22
  loan for getting a real estate for buying a house for yourself.
• 1:36:25
  I bought my first property back in 2016, $0 down with no print
• 1:36:30
  without paying Kind of private mortgage insurance or anything
• 1:36:33
  like that, and the VA takes care of you.
• 1:36:35
  That's a really, really good bonus.
• 1:36:37
  The most powerful tool for buying real estate.
• 1:36:40
  You can have now, you have to live in it.
• 1:36:41
  It can't, you can't use it for Investments straight away.
• 1:36:44
  But you it's a very, very powerful tool, and then you have
• 1:36:47
  a lot of depending on who you are.
• 1:36:49
  You can get health care for life and everything like that too.
• 1:36:51
  There's not a lot of jobs in this world anymore where you can
• 1:36:53
  work twenty years and then get retirement, health care, and
• 1:36:56
  paycheck every month for the rest of your life.
• 1:36:59
  So, theoretically, if I had done that, I would have retired at
• 1:37:02
  39, right around 40, right. And I would have done the
• 1:37:06
  paycheck and health care for the rest of my life, if I chose to
• 1:37:08
  stay in. I mean, that's a huge benefit
• 1:37:11
  for some people for me. I didn't feel it was worth it.
• 1:37:13
  And the reason for that is because I can make more money on
• 1:37:15
  the outside and that retirements two to three grand a month which
• 1:37:19
  is not nothing, but it's not enough for me to sacrifice
• 1:37:21
  another decade of my life, doing something I don't believe in
• 1:37:23
  anymore and being sent everywhere and all that type of
• 1:37:26
  stuff, right? So we had a so I look back on my
• 1:37:29
  military time, very positively I'm also realistic in the sense
• 1:37:32
  that there was a Divergence in what I needed and what the
• 1:37:36
  military needed. And I wasn't a person to
• 1:37:38
  military needed anymore and because it had given me so much.
• 1:37:40
  I didn't want to disrespect it by taking up a spot that could
• 1:37:43
  be used for somebody else. And being honest, I just wanted
• 1:37:46
  more for myself that I could control.
• 1:37:49
  Not the military doesn't provide a ton of options because it
• 1:37:50
  does. But I wasn't, I was getting
• 1:37:52
  ready to get set. Who knows, where, you know, I
• 1:37:54
  mean II could have been sent to North Dakota or possibly,
• 1:37:57
  California. Maybe I'll good spot.
• 1:37:58
  You know, you never known that kind of did not in control.
• 1:38:01
  Roll was bad for me and I had built a life for myself in
• 1:38:05
  Tampa, where I was at the time I had friends there, I had a
• 1:38:07
  house, you know, I had all these things going for me of like I
• 1:38:09
  don't want to just have this taken away from me just because
• 1:38:12
  the government decides they need me somewhere else.
• 1:38:14
  Like this is no longer a path for me.
• 1:38:16
  So One final question about the military.
• 1:38:19
  I just want to know what are the main differences between the US
• 1:38:23
  Military and then maybe some of the other militaries around the
• 1:38:26
  world that you encountered having been at Qatar, where
• 1:38:29
  there are the British forces, are the RAF is there and then
• 1:38:33
  also All Season were there as well as a book that are short.
• 1:38:36
  Length is one of them. For sure the Brits and the
• 1:38:40
  Aussies where way shorter shorts than the US military.
• 1:38:44
  Okay but no no um The way, the what's really weird is the
• 1:38:49
  military. The US military is a lot more
• 1:38:51
  constricted on what we're allowed to do.
• 1:38:54
  So the Australians and the British forces that were there,
• 1:38:57
  I think there were Italian there, as well.
• 1:38:59
  They're allowed to drink, we weren't allowed to drink,
• 1:39:01
  trustee rely. Yeah.
• 1:39:02
  They were like, they were allowed to do a lot more.
• 1:39:04
  So it's interesting that their forces are actually a lot more,
• 1:39:08
  they expect a lot more out of their lot harder on them in some
• 1:39:11
  senses. But then they also allow them a
• 1:39:13
  lot more freedom, they allowed. They trust their people a lot
• 1:39:16
  more. So I think That's one of the big
• 1:39:17
  things that you see there. It were a lot more restrictive
• 1:39:22
  in the way that we treat each other, while we're in the
• 1:39:24
  military, for the United States, compared to the other forces
• 1:39:26
  that I've seen, what do you think?
• 1:39:29
  I mean, because when you set though, they don't like to
• 1:39:31
  drink. The first thing that popped into
• 1:39:32
  my head is or maybe it's to do with religion.
• 1:39:35
  Like, you know, maybe it's a sort of an ancient kind of like
• 1:39:38
  Christian kind of custom. Like, you know, you don't
• 1:39:40
  necessarily drink, is there actual reason reason given for
• 1:39:44
  that like, oh, you know, we do it because of X Y Reserve
• 1:39:46
  reason. It just like these are the rules
• 1:39:48
  deal with it. There's no official reason given
• 1:39:50
  by where I can tell you from both things that I've seen and
• 1:39:54
  heard happened and just my analysis of what's going on
• 1:39:57
  because American troops get stupid when they drink and so
• 1:40:00
  they don't trust them. Whereas if you look at the
• 1:40:03
  American culture it's that way too because incorrectly where
• 1:40:06
  I'm wrong because again I don't know, the drinking age is very
• 1:40:08
  country but in a lot of the world's drinking age is much
• 1:40:11
  lower than in these United States when not much but lower
• 1:40:13
  anyways and it is United States because the relationship with
• 1:40:16
  drinking Is much different than it is in the United States.
• 1:40:19
  And so for the United States, people one, we have people in
• 1:40:22
  the military, which is a crazy thing to say out loud.
• 1:40:24
  And it never gets to the person who can die for their country,
• 1:40:27
  but can't drink a drink, will ya?
• 1:40:28
  Makes no sense, so that's one of it.
• 1:40:32
  But then still because we have such an oppressor a skinny
• 1:40:35
  restrictive, relationship with alcohol here in the United
• 1:40:36
  States. I think that translates into how
• 1:40:38
  we react around it and we do get dumb around it because we don't
• 1:40:42
  get to deal with it and learn how to deal with it at a younger
• 1:40:44
  age. You know, there's a reason
• 1:40:45
  Italians and other Countries that have your lower drinking
• 1:40:48
  ages aren't as dumb with drinking As Americans Arts
• 1:40:51
  because it's not as a big a deal to them.
• 1:40:54
  Like oh yeah, we drink all the time.
• 1:40:55
  But we'd like we control ourselves, we have one or two
• 1:40:57
  glasses and we stop, whereas Americans going Benders, and
• 1:41:01
  they're going to drink until colors, don't make sense
• 1:41:03
  anymore, right? You mentioned before that you
• 1:41:09
  have four degrees what are these degrees in that's nuts?
• 1:41:14
  How do you have four degrees? You mentioned that you mentioned
• 1:41:17
  a bachelor's and a master's I heard that but like yeah well
• 1:41:20
  Ste have what's gonna associate as well.
• 1:41:22
  So so some people may not consider those real degrees and
• 1:41:25
  they're not completely wrong but that's why I have an Associates
• 1:41:28
  in Visual Arts production. Associates in contract
• 1:41:31
  management Bachelor's in business and a master's in
• 1:41:33
  business. Goddamn is gonna do, that's
• 1:41:36
  good. Okay.
• 1:41:37
  All right. And tell us about your journey
• 1:41:40
  to college and the career that you have now.
• 1:41:44
  So for me college is one of one of those things in my mom, she
• 1:41:48
  didn't go to college. So, one of the things that I
• 1:41:49
  always look at fondly of my mom sacrifice for me.
• 1:41:53
  My mother had me when she was 18 years old unwed, and she was
• 1:41:57
  planning to join the Army herself.
• 1:41:59
  But because she had me, she would have had to sign you were
• 1:42:01
  to my father, and she's like, I'm not doing that.
• 1:42:03
  And so she did she completely changed the scope of her life.
• 1:42:06
  Or that reason. And so one of the things she
• 1:42:07
  told me is that, you know, you need to go to college and she
• 1:42:10
  didn't know why she was like what a lot of those parents who
• 1:42:12
  just knew that? That was the thing that you're
• 1:42:13
  supposed to do to have a successful life.
• 1:42:15
  But she didn't know exactly what that meant and neither did I
• 1:42:17
  when I first started school and that's why it took me so long to
• 1:42:19
  finish what I started school. When I first joined the military
• 1:42:22
  at like 21 or something like that, but I didn't finish my
• 1:42:26
  bachelor's until I was 30 and the reason for that is I didn't
• 1:42:29
  know what is actually going to school for.
• 1:42:30
  I had no path. I didn't know what school meant,
• 1:42:32
  you know what I mean? And so I just kind of taking
• 1:42:34
  General classes. I knew I was supposed to, but
• 1:42:36
  then When I started to get a shape of what my one of my
• 1:42:38
  future to be and everything and I had a career that I believe
• 1:42:40
  translating something, I knew that that would translate into
• 1:42:42
  getting a business degree which is a little bit more Broad and I
• 1:42:45
  could do a lot of different things with it.
• 1:42:47
  So college is always something that I kind of generally wanted
• 1:42:50
  to do, but never knew why. And then once I knew why I
• 1:42:54
  actually dedicated myself to getting it done and then I like
• 1:42:56
  I said after I got out of the service, I finished my master's
• 1:42:58
  as well to be an extra different.
• 1:43:00
  Real differentiator between myself and other potential
• 1:43:03
  candidates that I might be competing against four, other
• 1:43:05
  careers and really just Get the knowledge.
• 1:43:07
  My Master's is the only thing. I feel like I actually murdered
• 1:43:10
  my bachelor's in like even the associates which were just a
• 1:43:12
  classes for my bachelor's. Anyways, I didn't learn
• 1:43:15
  anything. It was just a degree.
• 1:43:17
  It was just a piece of paper I needed at the end, right?
• 1:43:20
  But my master is, actually, I have stuff that I still quote to
• 1:43:22
  this day that are from my master's program, and my
• 1:43:24
  Master's was only two years, you know, compared to my bachelor's,
• 1:43:27
  which is supposed to be for, but I get a nine, you know what I
• 1:43:30
  mean? So, Cool man.
• 1:43:32
  Cool. And I off the back of that
• 1:43:34
  you've managed to build a successful Financial portfolio
• 1:43:37
  and you used to be a personal finance bloggers.
• 1:43:41
  So what tips could you give to others who want to become more
• 1:43:44
  financially stable? The first thing I'll tell you is
• 1:43:49
  financed personal finance is behavioral, it is not math,
• 1:43:54
  people always go. What should I invest in?
• 1:43:55
  Where should I put monies? Don't, don't worry about any of
• 1:43:57
  that. Can you take a chunk of money
• 1:44:00
  every month and Do what you need to do with it because that's
• 1:44:03
  what it comes down to. Where you put it is important
• 1:44:05
  that I'm not going to completely downplay that but the most
• 1:44:07
  important part is being able to consistently, do it.
• 1:44:10
  Because that's where most people fail.
• 1:44:12
  Most people don't fail because they buy the wrong stop.
• 1:44:14
  Nobody out here, not a lot of people out here putting 100%
• 1:44:16
  their portfolio and Blockbuster stock or something, right?
• 1:44:19
  The problem is that people can't consistently do it and every
• 1:44:22
  time they get a race, they raise their lifestyle and all this
• 1:44:24
  type of stuff. So they're not putting money
• 1:44:25
  away for a meaningful purpose. And a lot of times, it's because
• 1:44:28
  they haven't defined what that purpose is.
• 1:44:30
  They just know they're supposed to.
• 1:44:31
  It's like, When I was a college right?
• 1:44:32
  I knew I was supposed to but I didn't know what I was doing.
• 1:44:34
  People treat money the same way, they're supposed to save it or
• 1:44:37
  supposed to invest. It is supposed to blah, blah,
• 1:44:39
  blah, blah. But why do you want to buy a
• 1:44:41
  house? Do you want to retire young?
• 1:44:42
  Do you want to retire at a certain age?
• 1:44:43
  Like do you want to retire in a certain location?
• 1:44:45
  Why are you doing any of this? And then also consistently
• 1:44:49
  doing, it is the most important parts Behavior.
• 1:44:51
  So I think, the first thing I tell people, when it comes to
• 1:44:53
  personal finance, it starts to Define what you're doing.
• 1:44:55
  Why are you doing this? What is the entire purpose of
• 1:44:58
  you doing these things, and then build goals around that?
• 1:45:01
  Then second thing I would say stop trying to buy individual
• 1:45:04
  stocks Warren Buffett talks about this, the creator of
• 1:45:08
  Vanguard Jack Bogle talks about or talked about this.
• 1:45:11
  I believe he's since passed away but U ZT ETFs in index funds.
• 1:45:17
  That's your money because now you're buying a piece of an
• 1:45:19
  entire index. A you like the S&P 500, you
• 1:45:22
  know, and I'll give a free one out there just to look into it
• 1:45:24
  to ETF that I my cell phone and I believe in is V 0 0 it stands
• 1:45:28
  for it's the Vanguard S&P 500 ETF.
• 1:45:31
  What you're doing is, you're essentially buying a very tiny
• 1:45:33
  piece of all 500 companies in the United States, S&P 500, and
• 1:45:39
  by doing that, that market always goes up pretty much.
• 1:45:43
  And I want to say, always, I mean, over any 10-year period of
• 1:45:45
  time, it's never ended negatively.
• 1:45:47
  It always goes up, right? And I think it averages around
• 1:45:50
  11% over the course of its history.
• 1:45:52
  Analyzed over the course of its history.
• 1:45:55
  So those are the first two things, one figure out what
• 1:45:58
  you're doing. While you're doing any of this,
• 1:45:59
  and then do it consistently. And in, To buy into ETF index
• 1:46:03
  funds. Make it extremely simple do not
• 1:46:05
  follow whatever you're seeing. Jim Cramer talk about do not
• 1:46:07
  follow Dave Ramsey, do not follow any of these people were
• 1:46:10
  telling you to buy specific stock because they do this day
• 1:46:13
  in and day out 24 hours a day. So they're they're buying and
• 1:46:16
  trading multiple times for average people who don't plan to
• 1:46:19
  make this a career of just buying and trading constantly.
• 1:46:21
  You need to be really simple in what you do and just be
• 1:46:24
  consistent. So just by every month, the same
• 1:46:28
  ETF or index fund that you personally believe in.
• 1:46:31
  The eye is another good one, which is the total Stock Market
• 1:46:34
  ETF by consistently and then leave it alone should not be
• 1:46:38
  trying to over to over optimize your strategy, until you're a
• 1:46:42
  few years down the road, you proven that.
• 1:46:44
  You can consistently contribute to it because it's Behavior.
• 1:46:47
  At the beginning math, only comes later, because if I earned
• 1:46:50
  seven percent, let's just say 7%, right?
• 1:46:53
  I can conceivably make millions of dollars if I put enough in
• 1:46:56
  it, but if I'm not putting the money and it doesn't matter what
• 1:46:59
  I'm doing with it, Absolutely, I couldn't agree more and I thank
• 1:47:03
  you for sharing those tips. I'm sure listening to appreciate
• 1:47:05
  that to talk to us about yourself analysis, mindset will
• 1:47:11
  exactly. Do you mean by that, man?
• 1:47:14
  That is, that is a huge one for me, I believe that almost
• 1:47:17
  anything that you're talking about, in this world, whether
• 1:47:19
  it's personal finance, whether it's your goals, whether it's
• 1:47:21
  being happy, what anything it comes from knowing who you are,
• 1:47:25
  because we have this whole nature versus nurture argument
• 1:47:28
  that always comes up, right, things that your We born with
• 1:47:31
  like that. You're going to be this person,
• 1:47:32
  no matter what you did and the things that you're taught like
• 1:47:35
  you learn to behavior and things like that, whatever.
• 1:47:37
  We don't spend enough time analyzing who we are as people.
• 1:47:40
  Hmm. How do we do the things that we
• 1:47:41
  do? What motivates me?
• 1:47:43
  What makes me happy? What makes me sad.
• 1:47:45
  A lot of times we just do what our parents did or what we see
• 1:47:47
  other people doing and then we end up in life.
• 1:47:49
  It doesn't make us happy. We end up in a job or
• 1:47:51
  relationship, or whatever. That doesn't make us happy,
• 1:47:54
  knowing who you are. Should be one of the primary
• 1:47:56
  driving factors of your life. And the reason I say that is
• 1:47:58
  because then you can Design a life that makes sense for you.
• 1:48:02
  It maybe you do want to work until you're 70 years old and
• 1:48:05
  never retire. Maybe that's where you maybe you
• 1:48:08
  want to retire at 30 and go travel the world and write write
• 1:48:11
  a blog or shoot movies, or do you to whatever it is?
• 1:48:14
  But until you know who you are, you really can't do those
• 1:48:16
  things. You're just kind of moving
• 1:48:17
  through life without a purpose. And when I say without a
• 1:48:19
  purpose, I don't mean like, you need to constantly be
• 1:48:21
  specifically working on a go but you should know what makes you
• 1:48:23
  happy and what drives your life and I don't think a lot of
• 1:48:25
  people sit down and actually decide that.
• 1:48:27
  So, for take, for example, for me I love people who are kind of
• 1:48:32
  a stoic talk. Very sad, random steamies,
• 1:48:35
  seldomly type of person like Sterling K Brown.
• 1:48:38
  It feels like a guy who I think. If we do exhibits that, that's
• 1:48:42
  never going to be me. I know that.
• 1:48:45
  I like to talk. I know that I like to have big
• 1:48:47
  conversations and be involved in them and everything, right?
• 1:48:50
  So you have to really understand who you are, not just what you
• 1:48:53
  want to be. Don't try to be Jeff Bezos if
• 1:48:56
  you want to be home every day at 5 p.m.
• 1:48:59
  You have to really set your life up for who you are as individual
• 1:49:02
  instead of what you think you want to be.
• 1:49:04
  And I think one of the things that we really suck at is seeing
• 1:49:08
  who we are without judging ourselves without taking some
• 1:49:10
  positive or negative thing from it, you know what I mean?
• 1:49:13
  Like, just knowing that I like to talk.
• 1:49:15
  Or I like to look at the sunset or something like that, don't
• 1:49:19
  judge that just understand that first and then see what it means
• 1:49:22
  for you and who you want to be. So, self-analysis is Central to
• 1:49:25
  everything that I tell anybody when it comes anything, when it
• 1:49:27
  comes to personal finance Fitness, Um being happy, just
• 1:49:30
  anything understand who you are. First start their have a
• 1:49:33
  relationship with yourself and know why you do the things you
• 1:49:36
  do and be comfortable in who you are and then you can still
• 1:49:39
  really start to build things and mean something to you.
• 1:49:42
  Great advice. Thank you for sharing.
• 1:49:45
  Let's continue that with a similar question, what is the
• 1:49:50
  biggest life lesson that you've learned so far that failure and
• 1:49:56
  being wrong? Are the most important things
• 1:49:58
  that you should be doing? Doing we kind of touched on this
• 1:50:00
  a little bit earlier in the episode about being wrong,
• 1:50:02
  anything like that, right. But so many people don't do
• 1:50:06
  things because they're scared of failing the day they might as
• 1:50:08
  well fail. You're failing by not doing it.
• 1:50:11
  You're getting the same end goal which is not doing whatever it
• 1:50:13
  is you're talking about. And so we spent so much time
• 1:50:15
  being scared of failure, being scared of being wrong.
• 1:50:18
  That we don't try to do things. We don't reach for a bigger
• 1:50:21
  life. If you will, we don't do things
• 1:50:23
  that really could make us a more impactful human being to
• 1:50:25
  ourselves and others because we're so set into.
• 1:50:29
  Uncomfortable. We have to be more comfortable
• 1:50:32
  with being somewhat uncomfortable.
• 1:50:33
  What I mean by that, is that right now?
• 1:50:35
  If I said x fact, right? And then two episodes later, you
• 1:50:38
  have someone who's an expert in the guy, your former guest was
• 1:50:41
  an idiot. I would appreciate the way he
• 1:50:42
  said it, but I would appreciate that.
• 1:50:44
  I now know that I was wrong, right?
• 1:50:46
  So I think that's one of the things that we limit ourselves
• 1:50:48
  on is that we need to know that failure is part of the process.
• 1:50:54
  I'm not going to be able to lift 300 pounds.
• 1:50:56
  The first day, I go into the gym.
• 1:50:57
  We accept that as a fact that we do, Judge ourselves for that.
• 1:51:00
  But then we expect ourselves to get every question right on the
• 1:51:02
  test. The first time we take it or we
• 1:51:03
  expect ourselves to go into a new job being an expert at that
• 1:51:06
  field. Even though we just started know
• 1:51:08
  you expect that you are going to have to fail a bunch of times
• 1:51:11
  and continue to get better now. If you consistently fail in
• 1:51:13
  something that might be a sign, maybe do something else, but we
• 1:51:16
  have to really understand the failure is part of the process.
• 1:51:19
  It's not the opposite of success.
• 1:51:23
  It's on the path to success. So you talk about a lot of these
• 1:51:26
  people. Again, I tend to be very
• 1:51:28
  business minded. Out of the examples.
• 1:51:29
  I gave our business minded but this can apply to any field.
• 1:51:33
  You take your Jeff Bezos. Is your Imam us or anybody?
• 1:51:36
  Warren Buffett any they fail a million times.
• 1:51:39
  Yeah tons of times or if you want to go into more artistic
• 1:51:42
  Denzel Washington Morgan Freeman you know any of the actors you
• 1:51:45
  might like Christian Bale, man. I'm blanking on his name right
• 1:51:49
  now. He's a mic.
• 1:51:49
  OK, that's it. Michael Caine.
• 1:51:51
  They fail a million times on their path to success, that's
• 1:51:54
  how you get things done. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
• 1:51:59
  I think I think the exact same way.
• 1:52:01
  So yeah, that's that's great advice, thank you for sharing.
• 1:52:04
  As we draw things to a close for today.
• 1:52:06
  Do you have any upcoming projects or maybe some final
• 1:52:10
  thoughts that you'd like to share with our listeners know,
• 1:52:13
  final project human not upcoming projects?
• 1:52:15
  I do like, said, my podcast comes out.
• 1:52:16
  Every Sunday. You can find me on YouTube at
• 1:52:19
  starting nowhere. I'm also on all the audio
• 1:52:21
  platforms and IG Facebook. All the different platforms,
• 1:52:24
  everything just search for starting nowhere, and you'll
• 1:52:26
  find me. Sure but the one thing I want to
• 1:52:29
  leave listeners with with everything that's going on, in
• 1:52:31
  the world, with your own personal stress, your personal
• 1:52:33
  finance stress, the pandemic, racial tension, politics
• 1:52:37
  religion epidemic, that try to be Earnest in the things you
• 1:52:39
  that you do. If you have a conversation with
• 1:52:41
  somebody actually go into it, trying to earnestly listen
• 1:52:45
  because so many times we go into conversations, just want to spit
• 1:52:48
  our stuff at people, you know, Christians, not a full person.
• 1:52:51
  He's just a sounding board for me to shout things at.
• 1:52:53
  Right. And I don't mean shout in like,
• 1:52:54
  a literal sense or anything like that, but we We don't do a lot
• 1:52:58
  of things in Earnest. We're actually trying to have a
• 1:53:00
  real experience in that moment. So I think Being Earnest in the
• 1:53:03
  things that we do in being present, in the things that we
• 1:53:05
  do is a huge piece of how we can get better at pretty much
• 1:53:08
  everything that we're talking about here.
• 1:53:10
  Because if I'm present in this conversation, Christian, I've
• 1:53:12
  learned, I've exchanged ideas of exchange energy.
• 1:53:15
  We've gotten better, I hope as people, and we can take that
• 1:53:18
  forward and everything else we do in life.
• 1:53:19
  But if I just came out here to plug my podcast or to plug my
• 1:53:22
  book, if I had one or whatever. And again, I'm not saying
• 1:53:24
  there's anything wrong with that, I believe that you need to
• 1:53:26
  sell products and You can help people, but I wouldn't be
• 1:53:29
  Earnest and I wouldn't get his real of experience from it.
• 1:53:32
  So I would say just be Earnest in the things that you do and be
• 1:53:34
  Earnest in things that you don't do, realize why you're choosing
• 1:53:37
  not to do something, don't go to something, just because you have
• 1:53:40
  to go, you know, I understand family, commitments and things
• 1:53:42
  like that, but if you don't want to do stuff, start stop asking
• 1:53:45
  me. Start having a life that doesn't
• 1:53:47
  require you to do those things. Why are you continuing to do all
• 1:53:49
  these things? You don't want to be doing, be
• 1:53:50
  terms with who you want to be. Couldn't agree more.
• 1:53:54
  Thank you so much brother, and for sharing, and for being such
• 1:53:57
  an excellent guest. I really appreciate you being on
• 1:54:00
  the show. I've really enjoyed our
• 1:54:01
  conversation and I know our listeners will have enjoyed it
• 1:54:04
  as well, so big thank you. Hey, thank you for having me on
• 1:54:08
  and thank you for scheduling this.
• 1:54:10
  I know we, we talked a few weeks ago, so I wasn't sure if it's
• 1:54:12
  ever going to come to fruition. So I really appreciate it.
• 1:54:14
  I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you, and I also
• 1:54:16
  appreciate your ideas that you've you put out there.
• 1:54:18
  You definitely give me some things to think about and look
• 1:54:20
  up after this episode, which is always what I look for.
• 1:54:23
  Conversations awesome man. Awesome.
• 1:54:25
  And yeah, for everyone listening to this episode, I hope you
• 1:54:28
  enjoyed it. Let us know your thoughts in the
• 1:54:31
  comments below. If you're watching on YouTube
• 1:54:32
  make sure to like, share and subscribe and all that jazz.
• 1:54:36
  If you're listening on Spotify, Google podcast, Apple podcast,
• 1:54:38
  leave us a review. Leave us a follow.
• 1:54:41
  Let me know your thoughts in the reviews.
• 1:54:43
  We could really do with some reviews for this podcast.
• 1:54:47
  I know, I know. It might get tedious me plugging
• 1:54:49
  every week, but you know, what? I've really got to push you guys
• 1:54:51
  because You need to be more talkative, you need to let me
• 1:54:55
  know. Do you like, what do you like,
• 1:54:57
  what do you dislike? Who do you want to see on the
• 1:54:59
  show in the future? And what kind of topics you want
• 1:55:02
  to hear in the future? Let me know.
• 1:55:03
  I'm always willing to listen and as always, thank you so much for
• 1:55:08
  listening to the Christian we've podcast.
• 1:55:09
  And until next time, peace out. One love.
• 1:55:12
  I'll see you in the next one.