Latest / The Advancing Healthcare Innovation Show / E187: Steve West on Turning Failed Pilots Into Wins Inside a Health System

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E187: Steve West on Turning Failed Pilots Into Wins Inside a Health System · The Advancing Healthcare Innovation Show

0:10
Hello and welcome back to the Advancing
0:12
Healthcare Innovation Show. I am your
0:15
host, Michael Stantinos, and if you're
0:18
new to us, welcome. It's great to have
0:21
you here. We're having some fabulous
0:22
conversations with real leaders that are
0:24
painstakingly
0:26
reshaping the future of healthcare.
0:29
We're pretty passionate about a few
0:30
different areas. We're passionate about
0:32
innovation and leadership um access and
0:36
the actual adoption of these innovations
0:39
within these work streams. And if it's
0:42
your first time tuning in, let me just
0:43
sort of take a quick step back and dive
0:45
in a little bit deeper in terms of like
0:47
what are we what are we really trying to
0:49
get done here? So, we're focused on
0:51
bringing real stories of innovation and
0:53
leadership to life. Not just the stuff
0:55
that you read in articles, but like real
0:58
people that are actually in the trenches
1:00
getting stuff done. Learning about the
1:02
little wins and obviously learning about
1:05
some of the things that haven't gone
1:06
their way because when you're
1:07
innovating, you're not actually winning
1:09
most of the time. So, we want to learn
1:11
from those learnings and share those
1:13
with our community and ultimately with
1:16
the world.
1:18
So, wherever you're watching this, if
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you're watching it, if you're listening
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to this, however you're consuming it,
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hit the subscribe button now so that any
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new episodes come directly to you. So,
1:31
you know, there is a version of
1:33
healthcare innovation um where like a
1:35
big health system writes a check and to
1:38
a startup and then puts out a press
1:41
release and then calls it a day.
1:45
And then there's another version of that
1:48
which is what today's guest actually
1:51
does. And I am so excited to actually
1:54
share this. So Steve West is the
1:57
managing director of Health Liant
1:59
Ventures, the innovation arm of Tanner
2:01
Health, a five hospital system serving
2:05
western Georgia and East Alabama. And I
2:10
think what makes Steve
2:12
different is that with what they're
2:14
doing at Health Lion, they're not like a
2:16
lab. Uh they're different from a fund.
2:20
It's sort of this live clinical
2:22
environment
2:23
where healthcare startups actually get
2:27
to prove themselves.
2:29
you know, you've got real clinical
2:31
staff. Um, and then you actually end up
2:33
getting a real verdict as to whether or
2:36
not the technology that someone's trying
2:38
to deploy actually works. It's a really
2:41
beautiful thing when it works real real
2:43
well. And we're going to get a chance to
2:45
kind of peel that back today. So, before
2:47
this role, Steve's um Steve has had some
2:50
really amazing tours of duty. He was a
2:52
CEO of uh Fiona Tech sort of a no code
2:56
data management platform that um was
2:59
acquired in 2023. Before that he was
3:02
inside some of the big boys inside of
3:03
Anthem um and then also started off his
3:07
career at um the advisory board. So, I
3:11
think that's that's really interesting
3:13
context for what we're going to talk
3:14
about today, which is what does it take
3:18
to build inside of a health system where
3:21
there's a lot at stake? Uh things go
3:23
wrong pretty quickly, but what are the
3:25
aspects and the things that we need to
3:27
have in place foundationally in order
3:29
for things to go really, really well.
3:32
So, if you want to get a shot inside of
3:33
the health system or you're trying to
3:35
without spending, you know, three years
3:36
to try to land a meeting, uh, this is
3:39
the conversation that you're going to
3:40
get value from. So, Steve, great to see
3:42
you. Welcome to the show.
3:45
>> I appreciate it, Michael. It's great to
3:47
be here.
3:48
>> Awesome, man. Hey, before we kind of get
3:51
just kind of dig into the the work
3:53
stuff, um kind of have a question about
3:56
sort of how you grew up, you know, who
3:58
were you as a kid, you know, before your
4:00
managing director of Healthline
4:02
Alliance, like uh what were you like as
4:04
a kid? How did you grow up and how'd
4:05
that shape you?
4:07
>> Yeah, I grew up in North Carolina um in
4:09
kind of the triangle area. So um to two
4:12
parents one was in you know one was a
4:15
professor and was in public health the
4:17
other he just been in business his
4:19
entire career actually you know in
4:21
smaller businesses so medical
4:22
technologies or uh therapeutics and a
4:26
few different things and you know I grew
4:29
up in an environment where there was
4:31
always a lot of curiosity there was a
4:34
lot of learning you know I was one of
4:35
those Lego kids you know always trying
4:38
to put something together and uh you
4:40
figure out something new. And you know,
4:44
for me, I thought that was incredibly
4:46
exciting is just to kind of build
4:48
something out of nothing. And so, I
4:50
think that's what led me to my
4:52
entrepreneurial journey um a fair amount
4:55
is just that background of well, what's
4:58
what's next? How can I get involved in
5:00
the things that are just the tip of the
5:02
spear?
5:03
>> Yeah. And you know, but that's the
5:06
funniest part is I actually never really
5:08
intended to do that. Um, it was always
5:11
something at the back of my mind. I
5:13
actually, you know, one of my
5:14
>> natural evolution.
5:16
>> It's just natural.
5:17
>> It was I think I think I came back to
5:20
it. I think I came back to it because
5:21
one of the more interesting things and I
5:23
had a bit of a side kind of mission at
5:26
one point is I thought I wanted to get
5:28
into diplomacy and you know when I was
5:31
in um when I was in high school I was an
5:33
exchange student in Russia for a while
5:36
>> and so like this was early 2000s you're
5:40
kind of going out in the middle of the
5:42
country I wasn't in Moscow or St.
5:44
Petersburg. I was in like the interland,
5:47
right? And so you're figuring out
5:50
>> I used to not anymore. I don't practice
5:52
it nearly as much.
5:54
>> Okay.
5:54
>> You don't use Russian nearly as often in
5:56
a health system environment, Michael.
5:58
>> Darn.
6:00
>> But,
6:01
>> you know, I was like, "Hey, I'm going to
6:02
study this." I went to school to study
6:04
Russian politics, economics. I got
6:06
really deep into understanding just
6:10
crazy organizations and their incentive
6:13
structures and all the things that can
6:15
break down. And I said, "Okay, well, I'm
6:17
gonna I'm going to do this as my job."
6:19
And boom, I graduated in 2009 and
6:21
nobody's hiring.
6:23
>> And I get back,
6:26
>> interesting times. And
6:28
>> you know, I went down to Washington DC
6:30
trying to figure out what I was going to
6:32
do. And luckily enough, I I had a
6:35
colleague that that worked at the
6:36
advisory board and um you know, they
6:39
took a shot on me and that's how I got
6:41
into healthc care from thinking, hey, I
6:43
was going to be on the other side of a
6:45
negotiation table with a bunch of
6:47
Russian politicians.
6:49
>> Just life comes at you really fast and
6:51
you never really know the types of uh
6:53
things you get up to,
6:55
>> you know. Um the advisory board is sort
6:57
of an interesting choice to go right out
6:59
of school. I feel like you're probably
7:01
fortunate for that. Um I think a lot of
7:04
people go into consulting trying to
7:05
figure out what they want to do.
7:09
>> Yeah.
7:09
>> Were you doing that or did you kind of
7:11
already know that you wanted to sort of
7:13
just fully stay in healthcare?
7:16
>> I think I was still trying to figure out
7:18
what I wanted to do. I think that there
7:21
was a little bit at that time a
7:23
desperation, you know, if I could be
7:25
completely honest. I mean it was 2009.
7:27
Not a lot of people were hiring in at
7:30
that point. Um, especially entry level
7:33
folks. And you know, I had a great
7:35
background. I knew how to write. I knew
7:36
how to talk. At least I thought I did to
7:39
the level of of what I needed. And the
7:41
advisory board was an unbelievable
7:44
organization that shaped a lot of people
7:46
from a really early stage in their
7:47
career. I mean almost everybody came in
7:50
doing sales or account management or
7:53
consulting or research and they gave you
7:57
a lot of the tools needed to execute at
8:00
a very high level. I mean I still keep
8:03
in touch with a lot of my advisory board
8:04
colleagues and I and I look at them as
8:06
some of the preeminent folks in this
8:08
industry and I learned a lot of things
8:12
that I could use and I still use today.
8:14
It's just an unbelievable environment.
8:16
Um, and so it was very fortunate in that
8:20
regard.
8:21
>> You're just amazing to see how I said
8:23
things shape you over time and then you
8:25
kind of go back and you look and you're
8:26
like, look, those principles that, you
8:28
know, I was taught, I still use today
8:32
and they still work today. That kind of
8:33
goes to show you uh how
8:36
it's cool when things last.
8:39
>> Yeah. Well, and and you never really
8:41
think about it. I mean one of the first
8:42
consulting organizations at the advisory
8:45
board I was in was actually not even on
8:46
the healthcare side. It was on the
8:47
higher education side
8:49
>> and you know they were kind of doing
8:51
this as like a nifty side project.
8:53
Eventually became the education advisory
8:55
board which is a large company in its
8:57
own right and it was all about supply
8:59
chain management. We were retrofitting
9:01
>> an old platform for health care into the
9:04
data reality of higher education and the
9:07
reality was is we had very limited
9:09
development time. We had to figure out
9:11
how to use this analytics platform to
9:14
drive value for an an educational
9:16
institution that was like, well, we
9:18
don't really know whether these guys are
9:19
going to be the right guys.
9:21
>> And so it was me trying to build out
9:23
products from Excel analysis the entire
9:26
time to try to say like, hey, this is
9:28
your next opportunity. This is your next
9:29
opportunity. This is your next
9:30
opportunity. And just trying to hack and
9:33
slash your way to providing value. It's
9:37
it was the thing that you know got the
9:40
next person on board, the next
9:41
organization on board, the next
9:43
organization on board. And you realize
9:46
how much it's like these organizations
9:49
rely on the ingenuity of a few different
9:51
folks. And I'm not going to say that I
9:52
was the, you know, ingenuity driver, but
9:55
it was just us young consultants trying
9:59
to just figure it out and make it work.
10:01
And eventually became a pretty
10:03
interesting business. And I still have a
10:05
lot of folks, you know, that are at
10:06
education advisory board that started in
10:08
that same team that are now leaders in
10:11
that organization and and kind of that
10:13
that formative experience gave them a
10:15
lot of different interesting paths in
10:17
their lives as well.
10:19
>> That's interesting. I just remember from
10:21
our first conversation that we had uh
10:23
the first thing I thought I was like,
10:24
man, this guy's a product guy. He loves
10:27
product because in a couple, you know,
10:30
pit stops after advisory board, you, you
10:32
know, you end up at Anthem, you know, in
10:34
product, which is uh is sort of a
10:37
slightly different world, big big
10:40
system, uh, bureaucracy, politics. What
10:44
I'm just curious, sort of what did what
10:46
did that tour of duty teach you that
10:48
like nothing else could have taught you?
10:51
You know, Anthem was a really
10:52
interesting one because, you know, I had
10:54
I had been in product a little bit
10:56
earlier on. Yeah. You know, kind of the
10:58
day-to-day, writing stories, trying to
11:00
talk to customers, figure out what the
11:02
needs were,
11:03
>> you know, all of that. And I moved up
11:06
and went to Streamline Health and
11:08
started running products and, you know,
11:10
interacting with executives in terms of
11:12
getting information
11:14
>> to to the forefront and driving the
11:16
strategy there. But it wasn't until
11:18
Anthem where you realize how hard it is
11:20
to do this at scale and across multiple
11:23
different organizations. And so, you
11:26
know, I was recruited by an old advisory
11:28
board mentor um and you he's
11:31
unbelievable product guy and I could
11:33
learn a ton of from him.
11:35
>> I said, "Okay, well, I I think this is
11:37
going to be interesting. I don't know
11:39
what to expect." It's this diversified
11:41
business group. It was at the time they
11:43
were trying to build the optimum at
11:45
Anthem
11:46
>> and they had said, "Well, we have a
11:49
partnership with a littleknown company
11:52
that is a massive EHR vendor in this
11:54
space and and you may know who they are.
11:58
We're going to build a joint venture out
11:59
of this." And I was like, "Okay, this
12:01
seems really cool. We could absolutely
12:04
change the industry if we create a
12:05
longitudinal health product that has the
12:09
best information from the clinical data
12:11
with the EHR with all of Anthem's claim
12:13
claims data.
12:14
>> Yeah.
12:15
>> But you realize how much culture change
12:18
needs to happen to not just make one
12:20
company work, but two massive companies
12:23
working in partnership together. You
12:26
know, it's like, well, how do you how do
12:28
you bridge the gap between folks that
12:30
may not have ever actually sold things
12:33
before, right? They're just used to
12:35
building product in the back and they
12:37
say, "Okay, well, the the customer is
12:38
going to come."
12:39
>> How do you figure out how to, you know,
12:42
talk to people when they have no
12:43
incentive to do it? And and and
12:46
it's creating those types of moments
12:48
where you can you can break away some of
12:50
the tension
12:52
>> that becomes the real hard product work.
12:54
and and I would say that I wasn't
12:57
successful at I mean the actual
12:59
partnership itself didn't last and
13:02
eventually you know all of the folks
13:03
that were on that SWAT team making it
13:05
work kind of moved to different parts of
13:07
the organization and eventually most
13:09
folks left. They're in leadership
13:11
positions in a lot of different other
13:12
places. Just an incredibly talented team
13:16
that knew what they were doing but yet
13:18
the circumstances underneath the
13:20
incentive structure just didn't make it
13:22
work. And that's really hard to to
13:25
stomach sometimes. And it's like you got
13:27
all this opportunity, you think it's
13:28
gonna do it, and then like
13:30
>> it just falls apart in front of you.
13:32
>> How do you kind of deal with that? I
13:33
guess in a sense that loss. Did you kind
13:35
of grieve it a little bit? I mean, what
13:37
was that like?
13:38
>> Yeah. Yeah, you had to. Um, you know,
13:41
there was there were some parts of the
13:43
organization that were still trying to
13:44
push this forward. I mean you had a huge
13:47
strategic shift when um you know Gail
13:50
Budro uh took over from Joe Swedish in
13:52
that regard and a lot of the folks just
13:55
you know that the the focus of the
13:57
organization more broadly went back to
13:59
being a payer as opposed to you know
14:01
kind of a technology provider.
14:03
>> Right. Right.
14:04
>> Um you know you still kind of make it
14:06
work. Eventually though, you have to
14:08
say, okay, am I going to live in this
14:11
new reality in the place that I am, or
14:14
am I going to start something different?
14:16
Am I going to think about something
14:18
different? Because you can get depressed
14:20
being in a large organization that
14:23
doesn't necessarily value you in the
14:25
same way that they may have valued you
14:26
when you came on board.
14:28
>> That's a really hard thing to process.
14:31
And that's ultimately what led me
14:32
towards, you know, working with my
14:34
co-founders at piano is like, well, this
14:35
was the thing on the side that I was
14:37
doing while I was trying to figure out
14:39
my anthem gig. I think I'm far enough in
14:41
the future now that that's no longer a
14:43
concern on a non-compete, but you know,
14:46
that was the thing that, you know,
14:48
brought me there and brought me back was
14:49
like, okay, I can get back into this
14:51
entrepreneurial mode because that's what
14:53
I started doing at Anthem. It moved away
14:55
from that, but I always got drawn back
14:58
into kind of that that new product type
15:00
of fit.
15:01
>> Yeah. I mean, in essence, you were, you
15:03
know, you were you were being very
15:04
entrepreneurial,
15:06
doing something entrepreneurial inside
15:07
of a larger organization, which is great
15:10
because there are bets that you can take
15:12
and, you know, you you're underneath the
15:14
umbrella of this.
15:16
I'm just sort of curious when you when
15:17
you kind of went full full on into
15:19
Fiona, like what was going on, you know,
15:24
in your head when you were like, "All
15:25
right, I'm all in on this." when you
15:27
kind of decided to do it.
15:30
>> Yeah, we started getting a lot of really
15:32
good customer feedback on it. Like
15:34
originally was a side project. It was
15:36
meant to be a healthcare data play. We
15:38
were going to connect into the EHRs. We
15:40
were going to try to sell this. This was
15:42
this was pre-hat GPT. We had built like
15:45
an elastic search cluster to try to do
15:48
natural language search on like
15:50
incredibly unstructured data
15:52
>> and we were like okay I don't know if
15:54
this is really going to fit on the
15:55
health care side but you know I've been
15:57
in healthcare most of my career I do I
15:59
want to be on healthare again like maybe
16:01
we make this data platform work you know
16:04
for for SMBs a little bit more and we
16:07
started getting more of the traction
16:09
with customers on that side we kept
16:11
building it you know we kept kind of
16:13
bootstrapping ing it forward. And
16:15
eventually it got to the point where the
16:17
thing that I was running away from was
16:21
not nearly as exciting as the thing I
16:23
was running towards, which was this
16:25
opportunity with Fiona.
16:27
>> And I think that a lot of people tend to
16:29
look at it that way as like it's just
16:31
risk mitigation. I mean, I had a great
16:33
great job, good income, all of that
16:35
going into something that like wasn't
16:37
necessarily going to pay the bills, but
16:39
it was something we could own and build.
16:43
it became exciting enough that I
16:44
couldn't ignore it.
16:48
>> How fascinating. Um, because you've sat
16:51
in the seat, I guess I get the
16:52
opportunity to ask you this, like what
16:54
what what's the hardest part of being
16:57
a healthcare startup CEO that nobody
17:01
really warned you about?
17:05
Nobody warns you about the waves. And
17:07
what I mean by that is it's just the
17:10
wave of exhilaration when something goes
17:13
well and the wave of despair when
17:15
something goes wrong. Um, and it's just
17:18
such a crazy crazy oscillation back and
17:21
forth because it can all happen even in
17:23
the same day in the same twohour period
17:26
where you have a great call and then you
17:27
have something terrible. And I think
17:30
that that's the thing that even now like
17:32
coming from more of like the, you know,
17:34
investor health system side, it's like
17:37
the one thing that I can I can relate to
17:41
with a lot of these companies is just
17:42
the feeling of this can go really great
17:45
one day and really poorly the next. But
17:48
the fact that you've been there, you've
17:50
seen that, you can speak to it with
17:54
>> just a level of cander that I think most
17:56
folks can't
17:57
>> because like you have to figure out.
17:59
It's like, okay, am I going to be able
18:01
to hit payroll this this week? I don't
18:04
know.
18:05
>> Um, am I going to be able to deliver
18:07
this for the customer in this time?
18:09
Like, we're going to have to step up.
18:10
We're gonna have to figure out how to do
18:11
this. like I got this one shot with a
18:14
decision maker and he just didn't show
18:16
up to the meeting, you know, like
18:18
there's there's so much anxiety and that
18:21
that waves the waves up and down are
18:23
just the things that you can't really
18:25
internalize until you've been there. I
18:27
mean, even if I say it
18:29
>> to somebody and I'm sure in your own
18:31
business, Michael, right, you felt that
18:33
same thing. It's like,
18:35
>> you know, you have to have a you you
18:37
take hits and you have to have a strong
18:40
family structure. You have to have
18:43
>> good friends because it's it's really
18:46
lone lonely going after the thing that
18:48
you're like, I don't know if it's going
18:50
to work. Um, and it's almost tougher
18:53
when you're bootstrapping because you
18:54
don't even get some of the external
18:56
validation around VC funding or anything
18:59
of that nature where it's like, yeah,
19:01
some important guy believed in me so
19:03
much that they gave me money to keep
19:06
doing it.
19:06
>> Yeah.
19:07
>> Um, you know, those are the wins that
19:09
keep going, but you know,
19:13
sometimes few and far between.
19:15
>> Yeah, that's why I always say, man,
19:17
measure the little winds. Got a little
19:18
wind jar here in my uh my office and I
19:21
always like put stuff into it just
19:22
because you know if you're having a crap
19:23
moment, crap day, crap week, you know,
19:25
dip your hand into the in the little
19:27
winds jar, read a few of them,
19:29
>> get you set up again.
19:31
>> That's a great idea. That's a great I
19:32
should I should do that for my team
19:34
because, you know, like
19:35
>> we we get a lot of hits at the hell
19:37
system. That's
19:40
>> you know it's the same thing. There's a
19:42
lot of different things that happen in
19:43
hell system as and as great as a place
19:46
as Tanner is, there's a lot of hits,
19:48
too. And that's the name of the game.
19:51
>> All right. So, I mean, so Fiona gets
19:53
acquired, you you end up as, you know,
19:56
managing director, you know, um, how
19:59
does that happen?
20:01
>> Yeah. you know, I was trying to figure
20:04
out, we were in kind of our last phases
20:05
of integrating into the new company and
20:08
I saw this kind of interesting job ad
20:12
because I was looking for something a
20:14
little different. I was like, do I want
20:15
to go back into Prada? Do I want to
20:18
like, you know, it's it's kind of the
20:20
same thing over and over again. It's
20:22
just different companies, similar types
20:24
of problems. Like product is a vocation
20:26
in that way, but unless you're really
20:28
you're seeing leadership like moving
20:30
things forward from like being a startup
20:32
founder going back to humrum like
20:34
product
20:35
>> is like okay I I still have a boss I
20:39
still got to deliver to a KPI.
20:41
>> And so I saw this I saw this um you know
20:45
this posting for this you know
20:47
>> principal position and Carolton Georgia.
20:50
I was like Carolton Georgia where's
20:51
Carolton Georgia? And the funny thing
20:53
is, you know, they have all the LinkedIn
20:55
of like people from your school went
20:56
there. And I went to school in upstate
20:57
New York. It's very rare to find
21:00
somebody that went to school at my
21:02
school that is in the southeast in
21:05
health tech in technology. I was like,
21:08
"Okay, this has got to be some sort of
21:10
sign." And so I messaged Jay Brennan,
21:12
who's the uh CEO of Pernobo, and we had
21:16
a talk and he's like, "Steve, I think
21:17
it'd be perfect for you to join Tanner
21:19
and kind of run this run this office."
21:22
And you know, I want you to talk to Greg
21:24
Schulenberg who's the CIO there. He was
21:26
the former COO of Greenway when you
21:28
know, all the way from when they started
21:29
to going public and then eventually
21:31
taking private and private equity.
21:34
>> And we'll see if it's a fit.
21:36
>> And um
21:38
>> but like I remember after having that
21:41
conversation with Jay the first time, I
21:42
was like, "Wow, this could be something
21:44
really cool. I have no idea what I'm
21:46
getting into.
21:47
>> But it felt like that moment going back
21:49
to Fiona a bit
21:51
>> where it was like I'm running to
21:53
something rather than just trying to
21:55
figure out like these product jobs could
21:57
be something he'll pay the bills. I mean
22:00
this could be something very different.
22:02
>> All right. So let's let's talk about
22:04
what Healthline actually is because when
22:06
I explain it to founders um admittedly
22:11
they they think it sounds too good to be
22:13
true. Um, break it down for me.
22:17
>> So, Health Lion, I mean, and we've we've
22:20
somewhat evolved this model a little
22:22
bit. I mean it's a broader model is
22:24
around
22:25
>> I don't have a thesis as an investor or
22:27
a partner
22:28
>> other than I need to solve the most
22:32
pressing problems that my health system
22:34
has with you know company solutions that
22:38
may need a little bit of extra ump to
22:41
get them fully the way there
22:43
>> because you know the background of this
22:46
and every health system starts a venture
22:47
office for a different reason
22:49
>> but the reason that Ly Howard our CEO O
22:52
started the venture office was he's like
22:55
innovation at Tanner and I'm sure this
22:57
is the many different places in the
22:59
health systems nationwide innovation
23:02
happens in a very small bubble
23:05
>> you know you you have these wide visions
23:08
from the seauite that says oh we're
23:10
going to disrupt ourselves we're going
23:12
to do all of these different things to
23:14
make it work
23:16
>> but it's hard to get that down to the
23:18
ground floor the managers the directors
23:20
the ones that are actually doing it. Um,
23:23
they're allowed to innovate with their
23:25
existing vendors and maybe get a little
23:27
bit of extra contract value to them or
23:29
doing a little bit of a lean process to
23:31
change it up. And at the end of the day,
23:34
they don't actually see, you know, what
23:37
the impact of that is.
23:39
>> Um, that was one. I think the other
23:42
thing is that, you know, externally
23:46
he started feeling and Ly has been at
23:48
Tanner for over 30 years. you know, it's
23:51
a very tender CEO.
23:53
>> Um, you know, saying
23:54
>> you don't hear often nowadays.
23:57
>> You don't you don't there's
24:00
>> four or five years. Folks have a good
24:02
run.
24:02
>> Yeah.
24:02
>> He's he's been around for a long time.
24:05
When it was one hospital in Carolton,
24:08
Georgia, and now it's five hospitals, a
24:11
billion dollars net patient revenue. I
24:14
mean, it's just it's an unbelievable
24:16
story. But he's always looking around,
24:19
you know, and back saying like, "Okay,
24:20
is there going to be somebody else
24:21
that's going to get me? Is Pedmont gonna
24:23
acquire me? Is there going to be all
24:25
these different things that could come
24:27
up? And if I don't do something about
24:28
it, if I don't engage my folks to be
24:31
able to make it happen, they're not
24:32
going to do it."
24:33
>> Yeah.
24:34
>> And so he wanted to create the platform
24:37
to allow these folks to say, "I've got
24:39
this problem, Steve. We've got a SWAT
24:41
team now that can go out and solve this
24:43
problem. Not with the large companies
24:46
that always do it or have salespeople
24:49
knocking on your inbox to try to get in
24:51
the door,
24:52
>> but with these companies that may be
24:53
doing something that won't pan out or we
24:55
won't know whether it pans out for two,
24:57
three years
24:59
>> and can we find that? And
25:03
you know, we went in fully on that
25:05
vision. I I used my product background.
25:07
I was like, okay, what are the biggest
25:09
problems we have? We found 10, 15, 20
25:11
problems immediately when I came in. I'm
25:13
like, we're just going to have to go.
25:15
We've got to do automated medical
25:16
coding. We've got to do, you know,
25:18
because we don't have enough coders
25:20
anymore to to continue coding all of
25:22
these these cases and getting them out
25:24
in a timely way. Um, you know, we've got
25:27
to start looking at how do we help with
25:30
scheduling and kind of managing growth
25:33
around an organization that's growing 10
25:35
12% a year into the types of places
25:37
where we're going to see the highest
25:39
margins. You know, there were so many
25:41
different problems that we went after
25:43
and systematically we just started
25:44
saying, okay, this is this partnership,
25:47
this is this partnership, this is this
25:48
partnership. And the way that we
25:50
structured these partnerships, to get
25:52
back to your original question, is we
25:54
said, "Okay, we don't want to really put
25:56
in cash up front. We're a small system.
25:58
We're super conservative with our
25:59
finances. We want to see if this works.
26:02
>> And if this works really well, we are
26:04
going to be the most loyal partner you
26:06
can imagine. We're going to validate it.
26:08
We're going to get it through the ITQ.
26:10
We're going to make sure the business
26:12
owner that had this problem is going to
26:14
go to war for you in the organization.
26:16
and we're going to hopefully help sell
26:18
it to all of our colleagues at hospitals
26:21
in Georgia and the broader US. And you
26:25
know, we hope that you find that
26:26
partnership helpful as opposed to just a
26:28
check for a million dollars and maybe a
26:30
logo. Um, like what is that? What does
26:33
that mean for your business? And for me,
26:38
that was a natural extension of what I
26:40
wanted at Fiona is I just wanted
26:43
somebody to give me the chance, right?
26:45
And say, "Here's some contract value.
26:47
Here's some validation. Here's some
26:48
time. Here's some energy. Here's a
26:50
cheerleader in the organization to make
26:53
it happen." And and most organizations,
26:56
people don't care. They're not incented
26:58
to care. um especially at the director
27:02
or VP level that are just they're in
27:04
their own zone. They're doing their own
27:06
thing. There's a million other
27:08
opportunities. But um yeah, Healthy
27:11
changed that a little bit. But that's a
27:13
little bit of how we do it. And there's
27:14
a lot of lessons in between there that
27:16
go
27:17
>> of course
27:17
>> way deeper on that, right?
27:20
>> Yeah. A couple comments. One, love how
27:22
you kind of prioritize
27:24
the problems. Are you finding yourself
27:27
still continuing to prioritize those
27:29
problems? And how often do you go back?
27:31
Is it like quarterly? Is it every, you
27:34
know, every six months? Just because
27:35
things are changing. So, I'm just
27:37
curious as to how those
27:40
>> stack differently and what the duration
27:42
is of when you go back.
27:44
>> I mean, the first year that we were
27:46
doing this, we were like, okay, how many
27:48
how many problems do we have? Like, can
27:50
we just start knocking them off of this?
27:51
We didn't know what our inventory of
27:55
problems were going to be long term. We
27:57
didn't know how quickly we could both,
27:59
you know, make the partnerships but also
28:01
deliver on the partnerships,
28:03
>> right?
28:04
>> That evolved after the first year when
28:05
we were like, "Wow, we could actually
28:07
get through like, you know, 8 10 12 IT
28:12
builds every given year."
28:15
>> Um, and that's just from like ruthless
28:17
prioritization. And I and I've got to
28:19
call out Greg Schulenberg, Dr. Bonnie
28:21
BS, Chuck Collins, our IT leadership
28:23
team. They are unbelievable operators.
28:27
Um, these are the folks you want on your
28:29
side to be able to kind of marshall a
28:32
team forward under a vision. And we
28:35
figured out that we could accelerate
28:38
things pretty quickly. We're like, okay,
28:39
so then prioritization isn't really as
28:42
much of a problem if you could do 10 of
28:43
these a year. It's a bigger problem if
28:44
you only could do three of them
28:46
>> each year.
28:48
And so we started looking at almost
28:50
capacity controls in the second year and
28:52
the third year where it's like we don't
28:54
want to have too many partnerships close
28:56
at the same amount of time. We want to
28:58
have it so that it's spaced out but
29:00
folks understand that we care about what
29:02
they're doing. It's just it's just going
29:03
to hit a timing thing and and all of
29:06
that. Um that's
29:08
>> what
29:10
was the limiting factor though to go
29:11
from three to 10 because that's like you
29:13
know it's pretty pretty big jump. Oh,
29:16
we've yeah, so many limiting factors
29:18
that we had to we had to run into. So,
29:20
contractually that was really hard to
29:23
make work. You know, if you're doing
29:24
master service agreements, you're doing
29:26
baas, you're doing NDAs, you're doing
29:28
security reviews, you're doing
29:31
implementation guides. I mean, that
29:34
became an exercise in parallel process
29:36
to do how do you do all these things at
29:38
the same time? And IT teams do that
29:40
today. It's just they're not necessarily
29:43
looking at at this scale. So we figured
29:45
out ways to do it in parallel on the
29:47
venture side that meant that we could
29:49
increase the speed. And once we had
29:52
enough speed in the organization, we
29:55
could start promising that speed to
29:58
companies later on. And that's when the
30:00
companies that were maybe preede or seed
30:02
stage companies, we can now start
30:04
getting series A, series B, more
30:06
developed companies that said, "Wow,
30:08
this speed is a real advantage, but also
30:10
I've done this before. I've implemented
30:12
this before." So it was easier for our
30:14
IT team to take on more. So it was
30:16
almost a virtuous flywheel that by
30:18
proving the results in those early
30:20
stages, it meant that we could actually
30:22
take on more later on from companies
30:24
that may have been a little bit outside
30:27
our baywick
30:28
um in that first year.
30:32
So you're going through this, you're
30:36
digging into different problems,
30:37
different companies, you know, you're
30:39
you're you're running pilots, you know,
30:41
across various areas. You mentioned
30:44
coding. Um, pick one. Pick one that
30:49
surprised you the most, you know, tell
30:52
tell me that story.
30:54
>> Surprised me the most. I mean, we've had
30:57
some ones that are
30:58
>> that are really good, really. You know,
31:01
it's some that have taken longer to to
31:03
prove.
31:04
>> Pick your episode. Do tell me what you
31:06
want.
31:08
>> Let me tell I I guess I'll tell you one
31:11
that I'm I'm very interested right now
31:12
because it's actually our first medical
31:14
device. And this was one of the harder
31:16
ones to do
31:18
>> is that we work with a great company
31:20
called Kent Imaging. Um Pierre Lamire,
31:23
they're out of Calgary, Canada. They've
31:26
built an unbelievable wound care product
31:29
that what they do is it essentially uses
31:32
infrared vision in a um you know in a
31:35
camera to detect the oxygenation of a
31:38
wound and maybe the bio burden of a
31:40
wound. Um you use that in your wound
31:43
clinics and trying to see how thing how
31:45
folks um work through it.
31:48
>> You know it was a really good
31:49
partnership um from the get-go.
31:52
Understood exactly what the value was.
31:54
He wasn't sure I think at the beginning
31:56
what a health system could provide. But
31:59
I think over time as we started buying
32:01
more devices and using it for um
32:04
different use cases, it was like well
32:05
our folks are folks really like this.
32:08
>> Um and we had to build a brand new Epic
32:12
implementation because they connected
32:14
into Wound Expert which is what all
32:15
these independent wound care companies
32:18
work with. They don't
32:19
>> do anything really with health systems.
32:21
So we had to build that from scratch. we
32:23
realized, okay, that was kind of a
32:25
limiting factor. I mean, originally when
32:28
we were just starting with the pilot,
32:30
the machines could only take data from a
32:32
USB stick into the wound expert
32:35
computer, right? And we were our nurses
32:37
were going back and forth with this USB
32:40
stick, eventually created the connection
32:42
there. Now we're getting into epic uh
32:45
implementation on that side. And so,
32:47
like, you have all these steps, you're
32:49
like, really, USB stick 2025? like what
32:52
what are we doing here? That's going to
32:54
be a limiting factor. But I think what
32:56
we're really excited about is that the
32:58
way that we structure the relationship,
33:00
we could do some there was some opening
33:02
for some co-development on new things.
33:04
And Kim imaging is an FDA approved
33:06
advice. They have reimbursement codes.
33:09
They are later stage by any stretch. I
33:11
said, 'You know what we think could
33:13
really open this up is for
33:16
hospitalacquired pressure injuries is
33:19
that if you're documenting using these
33:21
devices saying, "Okay, somebody's
33:23
presenting on admission. Let's take a
33:26
look at the heel. Let's take a look at
33:27
the the hips. Let's take a look at all
33:30
of this. Document it." This is the thing
33:32
that takes you from buying five or 10
33:34
devices in a health system to buying 50
33:37
or 100 devices. if every inpatient
33:40
admission is getting documented
33:42
>> for um you know a pressure injury
33:45
present on admission
33:47
>> and that's been the real interesting
33:49
evolution. So we're we're kicking off
33:51
our clinical study on this side. We've
33:53
got our chief nursing officer involved
33:56
uh our head of quality. I mean these are
33:58
folks that didn't have the problem to
34:00
begin with because the wound clinic
34:02
certainly did. Um but it eventually
34:06
moved into some totally different part
34:08
of the organization utilizing a tool
34:11
that nobody would have thought would
34:14
have worked in that particular way. So I
34:16
think that's more of the the kind of
34:18
driving it through
34:19
>> but you had to kind of lift it you know
34:21
I mean you had to you had to kind of
34:23
create the awareness
34:25
>> of that to your team internally. So
34:27
there was there was clearly energy and
34:29
effort on your part to get that type of
34:31
alignment I would imagine. Oh, there
34:33
there absolutely was and and I mean
34:36
maybe I'm I'm kind of going a little bit
34:38
quick to get to the outcome, but I mean
34:40
there was a lot beyond just the pilot. I
34:42
mean we our pilot manager defined very
34:45
specific KPIs. What are going to be our
34:48
patient population that we're going to
34:50
see week over week how their wound is
34:52
progressing? Are we seeing the
34:54
encouraging signs on that and maybe on
34:57
referrals to to cardiothoracic or you
35:01
know some of these other vascular
35:02
surgeons on that end to say okay can we
35:05
maybe avoid some circumstances where
35:07
there'd be amputations can we look at
35:10
diabetic foot ulcers with this can we
35:12
use this to drive hyperbaric treatment
35:14
you know there were so many different
35:16
KPIs that built up confidence bit by bit
35:19
to then say that well this isn't just a
35:21
solution that works here and we're happy
35:23
to buy the devices for this piece. It's,
35:26
huh, okay, I'm now I'm now having enough
35:29
reps with this that I can move it
35:31
somewhere else or expand the vision
35:33
somewhere else. You only really get that
35:36
if you're doing the work.
35:38
>> Um,
35:38
>> 100%.
35:40
>> And and that's I think where a lot of it
35:42
is is like, well, if we're not the ones
35:45
tracking the work from the venture side,
35:48
I mean, it's the business leaders or the
35:50
clinical leaders that are doing the
35:51
wombare work. We're bringing that back.
35:53
We're elevating up to the executive
35:55
team. They're then able to say, "Well,
35:57
>> I you know, I I'm not sure whether this
36:00
fits, but maybe it fits over here. Let's
36:01
go explore that particular direction."
36:04
>> I mean, that's goes back to the whole
36:06
point of you've got this small
36:07
innovation at a manager director level.
36:09
It goes up to executives. It goes over
36:11
and then back down.
36:13
>> But how do you turn like what could be a
36:15
single or a double in a partnership to a
36:17
home run? And I think that's where
36:19
that's where we're going with Kent
36:20
imaging is we're just taking something
36:22
that we thought was the kernel of
36:24
something great and you know it it goes
36:26
somewhere else you know more broadly.
36:30
>> Fascinating.
36:32
On the other side of that spectrum um
36:36
has a has a pilot failed and and if it
36:39
and if there are any that you're able to
36:41
talk about what it what did it look like
36:44
and you know kind of what you do with
36:45
those learnings? Yeah, I mean we've had
36:48
ones that have have not worked in the
36:52
implementation phase uh because either
36:54
the amount of resources to get it up and
36:56
going were going to be really cost
36:58
prohibitive.
36:59
>> Can't really talk about a couple of
37:00
those. Those are those are harder. We
37:02
don't really publish our results until
37:04
we see pilots. I think we've had areas
37:07
where we've done some co-development
37:09
work and the company pivots and it
37:11
doesn't no doesn't no longer make sense
37:14
to really be a partner with them because
37:16
they're not going to a health system
37:19
style go to market strategy. They'd
37:21
rather go B2B. I think one is, and this
37:25
is a lesson potentially for
37:28
entrepreneurs that are trying to get
37:30
into health systems, is that you really
37:32
have to find champions that can be the
37:35
owner from an operational level, not
37:38
just the champions that are there as
37:39
like the rah rah, I'm going to get it
37:42
over the line from a budgetary
37:43
perspective.
37:44
>> Yeah.
37:45
>> Um, great company. They I actually just
37:48
got off the phone last week with their
37:50
founder, Jessica Walker. Care Sherpa.
37:52
They were this referrals company. Um
37:54
>> No, no, not Jessica. She's great.
37:56
>> You know Jessica well.
37:57
>> Yeah.
37:58
>> And she's good.
37:58
>> We've been working on this for two
38:00
years. They were one of our earliest
38:02
deals,
38:03
>> right?
38:04
>> And they came into the organization not
38:06
with the operator. It was almost like we
38:08
have this great technology, we have this
38:10
great service, we don't really know
38:11
where to put it. And so we started in
38:13
our hospice line. and our hospice folks
38:15
were like, "I don't know whether I
38:17
really like it." They didn't work well
38:19
together. And you know, they were really
38:22
trying to figure out how to make it
38:23
work. But it was like, "We're pulling
38:26
things along. It feels like you're
38:27
pulling this over the finish line.
38:29
That's not really the great work." So we
38:32
shifted it and we moved it towards
38:35
mimographies.
38:37
different leader in the organization,
38:38
different side there because we thought
38:41
that there was a improvement on the
38:43
hospice side, but it wasn't like the
38:46
>> 6x 12x ROI.
38:47
>> Yeah. It wasn't like an asymmetrical,
38:49
you know, risk. It wasn't like an
38:50
outsider.
38:51
>> That's exactly it. And that's exactly
38:53
it. And we're so impressed by Jessica
38:55
and her team that, you know, we're like,
38:57
okay, we've got to figure out a way to
39:00
do this. And so we did mimographies. Our
39:03
director of imaging was instrumental to
39:05
this. Patient access folks were
39:07
instrumental in this and we're like okay
39:09
we're going to do this repilot on the
39:11
six on the six month side and you know
39:14
we just announced it you know last week
39:17
that it's like it was overwhelming
39:19
success. Our you know drop in resources
39:22
from our patient access was like a 40%
39:24
reduction in resource utilization. We've
39:27
got significantly more folks coming in
39:29
for um you know mimographies on an
39:32
annual basis. That obviously has huge
39:34
effects on kind of our breast surgery
39:37
rates elsewhere. And more importantly,
39:40
you know, our head of patient access is
39:42
like I really trust Jessica. I really
39:43
trust the team. That's the real that's
39:46
the real win for us is like when you can
39:48
get that culture fit. And so I won't
39:51
necessarily say that it was a failure,
39:53
but it was not where we thought we would
39:54
see success. And it's like do you have
39:57
the ability to get that second chance to
40:00
really show the value that's you
40:02
sometimes don't get that and yeah um I
40:06
think we were able to turn what was you
40:09
know something like ah okay this may not
40:11
this may not be the thing that we want
40:13
into something that like our CFO is
40:15
raving about in a great way.
40:17
>> Yeah. What's cool that you is that you
40:19
all course corrected. You didn't just
40:21
sort of say well hey we have something
40:24
here. we have a founder that we think is
40:25
dynamic and she is dynamic. She's
40:28
awesome. Um, and let's see if there's
40:31
another way that we can reconfigure
40:32
this. Let's look at this differently.
40:34
It's it's just cool really cool to hear
40:36
that, you know, because because you've
40:39
sat and seat and you now I can only
40:42
imagine your inbox must be disastrous.
40:44
People trying to grab your time. Um, and
40:47
you sit across the table from you know
40:49
startup CEOs. What what do you see that
40:52
founders get like wrong when they're
40:56
trying to get into a health system? And
40:59
I guess if there was like a a version of
41:02
your younger self that you were talking
41:04
with right now, what would you tell
41:06
them?
41:08
>> Yeah, I I think most most founders don't
41:12
understand the internal dynamics of
41:14
health systems or at least can't
41:16
appropriately like kind of fake it until
41:18
they make it.
41:20
um they don't understand the financial
41:22
realities. They don't understand the
41:24
intersection between what a clinical
41:25
leadership wants versus financial
41:27
leadership wants. They don't understand
41:30
whether the champion that they've
41:33
identified actually has the ability to
41:35
get something over the line. I think
41:37
that's a really big one is that you have
41:39
a lot of people that are super excited
41:41
about a particular innovation or
41:43
solution, but they have no foresight
41:46
into all of the crazy brick walls that
41:49
are come up when you actually have to
41:50
get it like a contract signed.
41:53
>> You have to get so many people in the
41:55
room to make that happen.
41:57
>> And if you don't have somebody that
41:59
knows how to do this and has been in
42:00
that those shoes before, hard to make it
42:04
work. I think the other thing too and I
42:07
think this is not talked about enough
42:09
but I think it should be and it's it's a
42:11
good way to say okay it's approximation
42:13
of like this is taste from the health
42:15
system side or the venture capital side
42:17
or whatever
42:18
>> right
42:20
>> is that culture fit is huge
42:22
>> in these types
42:24
>> if if you're going after just academic
42:28
medical centers that's a totally
42:30
different culture fit than it is going
42:32
after regional communities right
42:34
>> totally It really is, really is, you
42:36
know, because you're not understanding
42:38
the incentives that we're under.
42:40
>> You're not understanding the way that we
42:42
think about our community and what makes
42:44
us look good in our community.
42:46
>> Um, we're not looking for research
42:48
success. We're looking for patient
42:50
outcomes. We're looking for financial
42:52
success because a lot of the times if
42:55
you look at Tanner, I mean, we are in
42:57
Carolton, Georgia, Villaa, Georgia, and
43:00
you know, Wedalli, Alabama. We are kind
43:02
of one of the economic engines of our
43:04
community.
43:05
>> Yeah.
43:05
>> And so that culture fit is huge. And so
43:09
when you find the champion that knows
43:11
how to get it through, it's a culture
43:13
fit. They want to work with you and the
43:15
organization wants to work with you.
43:17
You're going to sail through a lot of
43:18
these processes, but you don't really
43:21
know whether it's going to work until
43:22
you feel it.
43:24
um
43:25
>> you'll feel the full and that's where
43:26
the product market fit really becomes
43:28
most interesting and most kind of viable
43:32
in most folks minds.
43:34
>> So you've been the one that's been
43:36
pitching. You've also been the one
43:38
that's being pitched too.
43:40
Which which one is harder?
43:45
>> Pitching is hard because you know say
43:48
both, right? Pitching is hard because
43:51
you feel like it's a oneshot thing,
43:53
right? It's like you've got to make
43:55
every moment count and you feel the
43:58
judgment on that side where you know you
44:00
don't have a lot of leeway in terms of
44:02
what you're saying or and and you think
44:05
that it could be a lot of personal type
44:08
pieces when a lot of it is it's a thesis
44:11
fit or something of that nature.
44:14
when you're on the other side, and I
44:16
think it's especially hard being on the
44:17
health system venture side.
44:19
>> Yeah.
44:20
>> Is that there's a lot of folks that I'm
44:22
like, "Wow, that's an unbelievable
44:24
founder. That's an unbelievable company,
44:26
but I don't have that problem right now
44:28
at Tanner
44:30
and maybe it'll come up in a year from
44:32
now and maybe we'll we'll have this work
44:35
again." And we've had a few of those
44:36
where it's like met with them a year and
44:38
a half ago,
44:40
time time to kind of re-engage at that
44:42
point.
44:43
It's hard to be the guy that says no
44:46
without going into a lot of details as
44:48
to why. Um
44:51
I I respect the the kind of game on the
44:54
other side a whole lot more being in it.
44:57
Um because sometimes I have to just say
44:59
no, it's it's not a fit. No, I can't
45:01
really tell you why. Um because telling
45:04
you why, you know, indicates that maybe
45:07
you're just kind of going down a wrong
45:09
path or this this market may not work
45:11
out for you. I don't want to be the one
45:13
that that tries to kind of extrapolate
45:16
my individual health system experience
45:19
>> to everybody else's because once you've
45:21
seen one health system, you've only seen
45:23
one health system.
45:24
>> Yeah. Yeah.
45:26
That's absolutely. What is um before we
45:30
kind of wrap, I'm just cur what is the
45:32
best way for people to follow the work
45:34
of Tanner and Health Liant? um give us
45:37
like a little commercial and how we can
45:39
follow you and the things that team are
45:41
doing.
45:42
>> Yeah. So, I mean we're uh we're pretty
45:44
active on announcing our partnerships on
45:46
LinkedIn. Um I'd say we try to give a
45:50
pretty strong rationale when we're
45:51
announcing these as to why it's
45:53
important to us. Not just why it's a
45:56
good company, but you know, why it's a
45:58
good investment, but like what's the
46:00
actual problem that we're looking to
46:01
solve? Um, I think, you know, I'm not
46:05
the best at social media. I'm not the
46:07
best at kind of saying, "Oh, look at
46:09
look at this. Look at what we do." I
46:11
tend to be a believer in doing the work.
46:14
And I think that that's also a Tanner
46:16
thing as well, which is we don't like a
46:19
lot of self-promotion. We're good at
46:20
what we do. We've got great margins. We
46:22
have great outcomes. Um, we're a real
46:25
interesting health system in that
46:26
regard, but we don't like to go on kind
46:29
of the circuit. I'd rather be able to
46:31
say, "Hey, how how can I how can I make
46:34
sure I reflect the care sherpa story or
46:37
the Kent imaging story or one of the
46:39
>> dozens other stories that we have at
46:41
Health Liant in kind of a one-on-one
46:43
connection at a conference or somewhere
46:45
else where I can
46:47
>> very much tell the story to my
46:50
counterpart of one of our our many
46:52
health system partners." That's the
46:54
thing that for me is like the most
46:56
gratifying to say like, "Hey, we got
46:58
that one over the line." Um, on that
47:02
side, um, yeah, in terms of following us
47:05
though, I mean, I love talking I love
47:07
talking about the industry. I love
47:09
talking with our venture studio
47:11
partners, our venture capital partners
47:12
about what's next. Um, I I just love to
47:16
have a conversation um about it because
47:20
>> I'd love to learn new ways that I'm
47:22
either right or wrong about things like
47:25
what's more evidence around like how
47:28
we're thinking about the world that
47:30
could be totally off
47:31
>> because I think healthc care is changing
47:33
and it's becoming harder yearbyear. I
47:37
think the last couple years have
47:38
definitely proven that.
47:39
>> Yeah. Um, so if we need to zag where
47:44
others are zagging, give me that kind of
47:46
knowledge.
47:47
>> Yeah.
47:47
>> To make that informed position. And I
47:49
and I definitely, you know, appreciate
47:52
any of that that kind of cander in the
47:54
conversation.
47:56
>> Yeah. If there's anything I took away
47:57
from this conversation today, it's look,
48:00
sometimes there's bits of information
48:02
that you just don't have. So you don't
48:03
want to assume because to get something
48:05
over the line into a pilot into a
48:08
commercial arrangement with Tanner
48:10
there's so many different milestones
48:12
that have to happen there's lots of
48:13
different moving parts and at any given
48:15
time there could be something that could
48:17
derail it and you know for a founder to
48:20
kind of go in thinking that it's linear
48:22
would would really be a disservice to
48:25
them in their company. There's obviously
48:27
lots of little milestones along the way
48:29
and sometimes like you said there's
48:30
zigging and zagging but there's just
48:33
>> so much orchestration that's going on
48:35
behind the scenes underneath the hood
48:37
and I'm just actually really glad that
48:39
you even illustrated a couple of those
48:41
opportunities and what it you know
48:43
really kind of what it took to get it
48:44
over there because I don't necessarily
48:46
think that people are seeing that.
48:48
>> Um I just think that they they feel like
48:50
>> it comes back to relationships. It all
48:52
comes back to relationships.
48:54
>> Yeah. And it's do you trust the person
48:57
on the other side to follow through with
49:00
what they said?
49:01
>> And I mean there's so many milestones
49:04
you go through. It can make your head
49:06
spin.
49:07
>> But if you're treating it not as a
49:08
transaction, but as like the flourishing
49:10
of a relationship,
49:12
>> then it makes it easy for folks to go
49:15
through it. It's like, hey, listen. This
49:16
may push back by a few weeks or a month,
49:18
but it's like there's sometimes where
49:20
we've had delays for a whole host of
49:22
reasons, but both sides still trust that
49:24
we're going to get this done.
49:26
>> Yeah.
49:26
>> And%
49:28
>> that's that's what matters in this
49:30
because otherwise like
49:32
>> you're just treating it as another
49:34
another step to get to somewhere else.
49:36
And
49:37
>> healthcare doesn't work that way.
49:39
>> That's that's for sure. I'm just gonna
49:41
I'm just going to mic drop that. So, for
49:43
those if you uh if you're listening and
49:46
you found this conversation to be
49:47
helpful, what's the best way for you to
49:49
be able to support this? Number one is
49:51
share it. If you don't mind, share it.
49:54
Share it. Comment on it, like it. Um
49:56
maybe personally send it out to a couple
49:58
people that you really value their
50:00
opinion. That might be helpful. And if
50:02
there is a topic that you want us to
50:03
explore or even a leader that you'd like
50:05
to hear from, you know, drop me a note,
50:07
um leave a comment. Certainly do read
50:10
them. This is this is a platform that
50:13
isn't just about content like this is an
50:16
actual interactive community. We are
50:18
very intentional about it. So thank you
50:20
for listening Steve. Thanks for joining
50:23
and again guys keep keep building with
50:26
purpose. We'll see you next time on the
50:29
advancing healthcare innovation show.