Latest / The Healthy Diabetic / #392: Dexcom’s Data Policy Update — What Actually Happened & Why Everyone Is Furious

Transcript

#392: Dexcom’s Data Policy Update — What Actually Happened & Why Everyone Is Furious · The Healthy Diabetic

0:14
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: This is episode number three hundred and ninety-two of the Healthy Diabetic Podcast.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: I'm one of your hosts for today, Coach King.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I am joined by my good diabetes partner in crime, Graham Hubbard.
0:31
SPEAKER_02: We are two type ones with over 50 years of lived experience with this condition.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: And we really hope to empower you to think differently about how you are managing this condition.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: Before we get started, please remember that nothing that you hear on this podcast should be considered medical advice or otherwise.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: Please always consult your medical team before making any changes to your diabetes management.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: Graham, what's up?
0:56
SPEAKER_02: You got a Cleveland jersey on.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: It is what what it what is 3-2 right now?
1:03
SPEAKER_02: It's 3-2 right now.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: Shouldn't be.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: Game six is tonight, and then game seven is gonna be Tuesday if Cleveland doesn't win tonight, right?
1:13
SPEAKER_02: Because Cleveland's up 3-2.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: So 3-2, we're down.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: We're down three.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: So it's two three.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: It's 2-3 if you want to put it that way.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: So it but okay, so it's 3-2 Tampa.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: It's 3-2 Tampa.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: We got it.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: We already talked baseball.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: It's only gonna make me nervous.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm a dude, I'm gonna like I was watching the Ohio State game with a bunch of uh like at a at a child's party this weekend, but somebody happened to be from Ohio there, so people actually cared about the Buckeyes game, but we're all one and the same, man.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: We're all we're all one and the same.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Like we go outside, we get quiet, we get nervous.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: I do like the hands on the head, you know.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Like just I don't know if you watched that game.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: That was crazy.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: So, like, are you serious?
1:59
SPEAKER_02: I didn't watch the game.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah, I know.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: Of course I was.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: I love it's so funny.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: I love sports because of the excitement, but sometimes it's just exhausting.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: Like, dude, I'll tell you what though, it's funny because I I am just a fanatic sports fan, and I think I would be even more of a sports fan if my amazing wife liked sports.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's not her thing.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: So like I'm kind of a sports fan at my house by myself.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: So my girls aren't into sports yet.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: Hopefully they'll be into sports later on, but they're not into sports, so it's just literally me.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: So I'm basically only watching the Buckeyes, really football.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: I don't really watch much basketball, which I might watch some basketball this year.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: I don't really watch hockey unless jackets, which I love the jackets, but only I only really watch the jackets if I go to the games.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: Baseball, the Reds suck, so I don't I'm not really watching baseball.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: So, and then I watched the NFL because of the Eagles.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: But outside of that, like I don't spend a lot of time watching sports.
3:02
SPEAKER_02: I would watch the Cavs all the time.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: I would, I mean, I would watch sports all the time.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: I did catch quite a few Indiana Fever games this year, though.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: Dude, I watched a lot of Indiana.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: You know what, man?
3:13
SPEAKER_01: I did too.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: I was and I have the same issue at my house.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: It's all women.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: And I would I would tell the girls, like, come on, let's watch Caitlin Clark.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, and I'd be like kind of rooting for myself, like, aren't you excited for me?
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Like what I'm watching, man.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm just, you know, I'm the tip, I'm so you know what I like about sports?
3:31
SPEAKER_01: It's like, it's what I like about like the news.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: It makes me feel present.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't I have a hard time watching shows and like I don't know.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's it's it's it's a weird thing to say.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's it's happening right now.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: It's it's current, it's it's it's just on the tip of everybody's brains.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: That's what I really, really, really enjoy about sports.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: This is like an old man comment.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: I watch the news.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: I watch the news.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: I only watch the news or sports, man.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: That is an old man comment.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: You're an old man for sure.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: I yeah.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: I like to be informed.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I like to be informed.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: The problem the problem with comparing news and sports, though, is like I think everybody's watching sports.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Like in the in the in the reality, like yeah, nobody's no nobody's really watching it.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: Nobody cares the way it's like it's like when people say it's only you that cares about your fantasy football team.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, you think your fantasy football record is awesome.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: Nobody else could care, could give two shits about it, right?
4:30
SPEAKER_02: I'm three and two.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: I'm three and two right now.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah?
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: It's not even that good right now, bro.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: No, it's I'm just gonna be able to do that.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: You're middle of the field.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: You're middle of the field.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's um, but yeah, I don't want to get distracted too much because we can talk about sports a bit.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: I want to ask you actually a physical question.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's go.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, the older I get, the more I experience this, and I'm this is what my theory is.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: And tell me if I'm right or wrong.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Is it possible to quote unquote injure yourself during the day, but not feel the effects of it until like while you're sleeping, like at night?
5:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, like that, that you know, people say, like, I woke up and my back hurt.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, what what exactly does that mean?
5:09
SPEAKER_02: You know, what is like I think the first thing that you have to do is define what injury means, right?
5:14
SPEAKER_02: Because there's if you're talking about like, oh, I woke up and my back hurt, I'm sore and I'm tight, right?
5:20
SPEAKER_02: Is that really an injury or are you just kind of sore or tight?
5:23
SPEAKER_02: And it we it it could be, you could define it as an injury, but like a lot of people will define injury as it's broke, something broke, or something's torn, or you have a a big like, you know, muscle pull or something like that, something that's actually physically hurting or injured.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: So, but I I think that the the big thing, the older we get, especially us males, the older we get, there's things that happen in our life that makes us not take care of ourselves.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: And this I mean, you could say that for females too, but there's specific things that happen in our life that takes us away from stretching every day, takes us away from moving every day, takes us away from going on an easy 20, 30 minute walk with our wives or with, you know, our kids or whatever it is, like an intentional walk, not just going out and walking the dog around the block, but going on a very intentional walk.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: I think that those are the things that, you know, when we wake up and we haven't had a like a legit injury, we didn't roll our ankle, we didn't hurt our back lifting, or we didn't, you know, like we didn't go play basketball and like get a freaking elbow to the back or something like that, or knee to the back, whatever it is.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: Like you wake up in the morning and you your joints hurt, it's it's food related, it's sleep-related, it's recovery-related, and it's most likely related because you're not stretching and you're not doing like those daily things that you should be doing every day.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I I'm in the same boat.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't stretch every single day when I should.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to move every day and doing something, whether that's lifting, whether that's just doing low intensity cardio, whether it's doing high intensity cardio.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm playing basketball almost three days a week now.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: So like I'm upping my intensity at least of what I'm doing.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, like what yeah yesterday morning I woke up and I was like, man, God, this sucks.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: I was tight.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: But that was also because I slept on my in-law's couch.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: So it's not like I slept in my bed.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: Damn it.
7:33
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: So I think you got me on that one too, man.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: I Saturday night did like four, but did like five hours on a couch and then moved to a bed and then woke up with this like nagging pain, like just not all back.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: It's like that one, just the one spot.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: So you think it's couch?
7:48
SPEAKER_01: You think it's couch?
7:49
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, that's one variable that's like there that it could be.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: So here's another question.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: Why?
7:57
SPEAKER_01: Like, why what's it it?
8:01
SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: What?
8:04
SPEAKER_02: If you're talking about couch versus bed, think about it.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: But but why really like half of a night, like half of a night or one night as really?
8:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but why?
8:15
SPEAKER_02: Because you're you're in you're compacting your body in a specific way that you don't usually do it.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: You don't usually compact your body that in a bed.
8:23
SPEAKER_02: A bed is like a flat surface, depending on the type of couch.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: Like it could be a couch that like the cushions sink in, or it could be uneven at some point, like your spine is like, you know, not twisting, but flexing and stuff by just laying on the couch, being in different positions, like all that stuff, especially as you get older and you're not stretching and you're not doing the things that you should be doing, like moving and and doing all the things that you should be doing.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: Like, it's so much easier for your body to be like, what the hell are you doing?
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay, hold on a second, not that this doesn't feel right, right?
9:01
SPEAKER_02: And then add on the time frame that you're in that position, right?
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
9:06
SPEAKER_02: A lot of people you sleep on the couch, like they might move and be in different positions, and some might not be.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: But think about even if you do move and are in different positions, you're in those positions for a while.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: That's like it's like being like hunched over for hours on end.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: You're gonna have your back's gonna hurt.
9:24
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: You see what I'm saying?
9:26
SPEAKER_02: Where where like in a bed, even if you're not sleeping well, or even if you're not getting in a good comfortable spot, like I I feel like you're not comp compacted, compact as much like if you're sleeping in a bed.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: And I hope your mattress is good, is, is a good mattress that you can find a good comfortable spot.
9:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, that would be my next thought is is why that then why can you jump between mattresses and have pain too?
9:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, of course you can.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: It's the same idea.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: It's literally the same idea as like how we just talked about the couch.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: I'm just making a reference to the couch.
10:00
SPEAKER_02: It could be the same exact idea.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: You could have a temperatic mattress and still wake up in the morning be like, oh, my back hurts.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: It's because you and at whatever position that you were sleeping in, that wasn't the most ideal position for your spine, for your body, for your hips, for whatever it is.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: Right?
10:18
SPEAKER_02: So that's why a lot of people they'll they'll sleep on their side, like in the fetal position.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: I'm just like, okay, well, still your spine's compacted there.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: Literally the best the best position to sleep is on your back.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: That is the best position to sleep in.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: Not your stomach, not your side, but people do.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes I sleep on my side.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: Like in the middle of the night, I'll roll over.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: I can't, I don't know if my in my entire life I've ever been able to sleep in my back.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: Really?
10:46
SPEAKER_01: My entire yes.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: It's just I do not, I do not function.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: I do not work that way.
10:52
SPEAKER_02: Your back's really tight.
10:54
SPEAKER_02: What?
10:54
SPEAKER_02: Your back's and your your back and your hips are really tight.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: And I also have, you know, I broke my sh, you know, I have a repaired shoulder, which makes it even worse.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: So like, yeah, I don't I have a really, really hard time.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: So is that that's obvious And that's such that's such like a but it but but you shouldn't be in a pos like if you are having back pain just by sleeping on your back, you shouldn't sleep on your back.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: Find a comfortable position where you don't have pain, right?
11:21
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes when my back is like really tight, I prefer to sleep in my back.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: And I'll try to sleep on my back, but my back is like all arched because it's super tight.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: And I'll be like, oh yeah, I can't I can't sleep like that.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: So then I'll have to move.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't have back pain.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: This is like a one, this is just a one-off, but I I figured you were you you would have a scientific thing.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's not really a scientific thing.
11:42
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it makes sense to me, right?
11:45
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you could argue there might be some science, obviously, in the thought process, but it just it makes sense.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: Like when you sleep on a couch, when you sleep in an uncomfortable position, or you sleep in a position that's not your back, not your belly, not your side where you're comfortable, like your body's gonna be contorted in different positions where 100% you could wake up in the morning and be like, oh God.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: What about laying on that?
12:11
SPEAKER_01: What about like if you're just having a you've if you've earned a day off and you want to like lay on the couch and watch football?
12:18
SPEAKER_02: What why is that a problem?
12:22
SPEAKER_01: Are you gonna have more problems on Monday?
12:25
SPEAKER_01: On the Monday night.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily, not necessarily.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: It's it's have you ever slept laid down on a couch and then tried to get up and you're like super back is super tight and you're like, oh God, hold on a second.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: But then you get up and you're fine.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: But it's because you've been in that position for so long, like you're there's specific muscles that have to contract to keep you in that position.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: And when muscles contract for a long, long period of time, they're gonna they're just gonna get tight and like not be able to move very well.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I don't know, there was a point, there was a point yesterday.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: This happened to me on Saturday night.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: There was a point yesterday.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: I was like, dude, I used I had assumed maybe I pulled something in the gym or outside working in the garden or something, because it was like uh it took my the pain like took my breath away, bro.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: It was it was pretty intense, man.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, whatever.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: Enough old man talk.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: You said you you said you had some you said you had some informal.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've seen.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: Everybody who's listening, I'm sure you've seen this.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: If you've paid any attention on social media, have you I'll ask you this this question first, Graham, because it if you have seen this, which I don't think you have, if you have seen this, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: Have you seen a message pop up?
13:40
SPEAKER_02: Or no, you haven't because you're not on the CGM anymore.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: No, hit me with it.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you don't know.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: So hold on.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: So yes, because you're not on this on the Dexcom anymore.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: So this is a Dexcom thing.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: So what has been what's happened is Dexcom came out with a new policies, legal, legal jargon and policies, whatever for the G7.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: My favorite topic.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: I love what you just go for.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: They they rolled this out in a very, very bad way.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: Right?
14:10
SPEAKER_02: So basically what happens, or what happened, it has not happened to me yet, everybody.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: So if it has happened to you, my thoughts go out to you.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: I would love to know how you're dealing with it if you just like opted in or if you're doing something different.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: So basically there is this message that popped up on the G7, and you couldn't see your blood sugars, right?
14:32
SPEAKER_02: The only way you could see your blood sugars is if you opted in to their their new legal policy.
14:39
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: So and then on top of that, it straight up says on the message if you don't opt in, delete the app.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: Because you're not gonna be able to use it.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: It literally says that.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
14:55
SPEAKER_02: So now everyone is up in it, that everyone that's this has happened to so far, because it hasn't happened to everybody.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: Like I said, it hasn't happened to me yet, is in an uproar.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: And then it's they're making, they have made it very, very difficult to get information of what this actu this update actually is.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: What who who has?
15:15
SPEAKER_01: The user, the consumer?
15:16
SPEAKER_02: No, Dexcom has made it very hard to figure out exactly not very hard, but they've made it challenging.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: We'll just say I'm writing all this down just so I can Okay.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
15:27
SPEAKER_02: So some of the things that people have said, which again, it has not happened to me.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: I have not 100% looked into their notice now because of course they sent out an email or sent out this big notice to everybody that's on that's in their in their which I'd never even got an email, but that's in that's maybe effective, we'll say that.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: And this is all from people that I've seen post things online.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: So this is not, I'm not pulling this exactly from Dexcom's stuff.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: So some of the things that this this is doing, it's taking your data.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: So we all know that's what everybody does.
16:09
SPEAKER_02: That's what everybody's doing.
16:10
SPEAKER_02: We all know that Dexcom takes our data anyway.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: But the difference is what uh what it looks like or what what people are saying from the messaging is that it's it's taking your data and sharing it with other comp other platforms, other other things.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: Whatever that's what other people do.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: Hold on.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: So I also saw an interview, a clip of an interview for with someone from Dexcom, which this makes sense, and I understand why they would even say this.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: It could be true, it could be not true, that it's not taking because at first everyone was in an uproar because it was saying that it was tracking you, even using like Safari, losing using Google, using like any like browser, like it could track your browser history on your phone.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: So they've Dexcom has kind of tried to come out and said, well, it doesn't actually do that.
17:03
SPEAKER_02: That's a false narrative.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: That's it's not tracking your browser history, it's tracking the data from the app and data that's that that is connected to the app.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: As an example, right?
17:17
SPEAKER_02: So it's trying to take data and share it with your pump, right?
17:22
SPEAKER_02: Because so if you're on a closed loop system, right, say I'm on the tandem pump.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: So Dexcom is saying, hey, we're gonna take your data from Dexcom and share it with tandem.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: Because they have to, tandem and Dexcom, I believe, have to have that legal partnership for it to even share with the two devices.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: Right?
17:45
SPEAKER_02: So they're updating that policy.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: That's what the Dexcom is kind of coming out.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: It seems like what they're kind of coming out and saying.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: Again, this is all me guesstimating on what I have seen so far in social media from Dexcom and from people that are talking about it.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: On a different funny side, I saw a clip from someone who is a parent of a young type one, and the husband works in cybersecurity AI.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: He didn't get on, he didn't get on camera, but you could hear him explaining things in the background.
18:20
SPEAKER_02: And he was saying the first thing he said, because the the mom was asking him, you know, a bunch of questions about like what happened and what's going on.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: And the first thing he said is which which was funny, it's like, well, I think some IT guy's getting fired right now because of the way it got rolled out and how like obscene it was and like the language, how obscene the language was.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: So then so I just that was just a funny piece that I I saw too.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: So then the other thing that Dexcom did, which is make which is also pissing off users, is they sent out a notification or something after this happened, after the fact, saying, like, if you have questions, contact our legal department and you have to email them.
19:07
SPEAKER_02: You imagine how many people this affected and how many people are emailing legal to try to figure out what's going on, how much work that's creating for them.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna get an email back.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh-uh.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: No, no way you're gonna get an email back.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: No, so that's another thing that people are pissed about because this is heavy.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: I actually, I actually just talked on Saturday to someone that's getting ready to come onto the podcast that started this whole thing.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: There's this amazing type one diabetic who she made a post and all this research, all this stuff, and all these things that she went into with Dexcom, phone calls, like trying to talk to managers, like she talked about all this in this video and it went viral.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: That's how everyone figured out about this.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: She's coming on the podcast to talk about her experience too soon.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: We're getting it scheduled.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: Oh dude.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: But we're we'll get it scheduled and it'll be here in the next, hopefully the next 30 days.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: We'll get her on and talk about all this.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: But any anyways, so can I say I have to say something really quickly?
20:14
SPEAKER_01: I just went off a big tangent.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: Go.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: Of everything, of everything we have ever talked about.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: This is the first time I've ever been like, damn, I would have loved to have researched this shit ahead of time.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: Because you know this one grinds my ears.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: And so that's it, that's a first for that.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: This is also gonna be a first that I might actually make a political comment.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh, here we go.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: But it it is I've seen it and it's happening.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: It is this, it's it's a I think it's a course correction.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: I think, I think it is a like we had a little bit of Trump, but then Biden came in and everybody tried to go way, way left and be all about offended, and now we're back to Trump.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: So it's all about how he is and this and that.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: And while you were talking, I looked it up.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to know the exact message that Dexcom said to the user if you chose not to use it.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: And it was please uninstall app if you don't agree.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: That is not how shit did not used to be that.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: No, but this is the funny thing about it, bro.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: But this is the funny thing about it because this is the funny thing about it, because this is why like people that are in like this other this lady who her husband's in cybersecurity and and AI stuff, yeah.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: That's why he was saying like this someone's getting fired.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: Because this was rolled out, this had to have been rolled out without going through legal with like the messaging piece.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: Not not the actual like hey, this is how we're gonna do things, but the messaging and the words that are there being used, it got it had to have gotten rolled out without approval.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: Because that's obscene.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: That's a the first thing that's obscene.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: The first thing that's obscene is having this message come up and you cannot get past it and look at your blood sugars.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't come up between like when you're changing a CGM.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: Right?
22:11
SPEAKER_02: It comes up during your 10 days.
22:14
SPEAKER_02: It could be one day one or day ten.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: It's coming up during your ten your ten days.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: That's the first obscene piece about it.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: The second obscene piece about it is the fact that the only way you can fix it is if you opt in.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: And who's who's really gonna read through 50, 60 some pages, however long it is?
22:34
SPEAKER_02: Who's gonna read through all that?
22:35
SPEAKER_02: Nobody.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: Nobody.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: Terms and what do you call them?
22:39
SPEAKER_01: Terms of service.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: Terms of agreements.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: Terms and conditions.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: And terms and conditions and policy.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so those are the two main things that are an issue outside of the data breaches.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: Not data breach, but outside of the, hey, we're taking your data.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: They're all right.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: But think about this.
22:59
SPEAKER_02: And this is another person that I saw talking.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: It was like he he has a 100% great point.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: I I was watching another type one who puts out puts out stuff, and he was saying that he doesn't understand why everyone's in an uproar.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: Dexcom takes your data anyway.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:19
SPEAKER_02: Right?
23:19
SPEAKER_02: He's like, Dexcom takes your data and shares it anyway.
23:23
SPEAKER_02: And and even more obscene than that, everyone's using Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, like all the social media platforms, what the hell do you think they do?
23:36
SPEAKER_02: They take your data and share it with external people more than anybody.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: So he that's what that's what his point was.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, dude, that's so of course, that's that is so true.
23:46
SPEAKER_02: So we're in a we're in an uproar about Dexcoming telling us that they're stealing, or not stealing, but taking our data and sharing it.
23:54
SPEAKER_02: Well, but the problem is is the messaging on how they're what they said they're doing.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: And there could be a lot of stuff to your point earlier, there could be a lot of shady stuff going on in what they actually rolled out.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: 100%.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: I didn't I haven't read it because I haven't I haven't got a message yet.
24:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: Or I haven't I haven't got the update yet.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: So I think that that's the first piece to this.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: I think the second piece to this on what this other guy was saying is, you know, when you think about the data that you're sharing anyway, they're taking your medical information regardless.
24:32
SPEAKER_02: They always have.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: You have to put all your medical information into Dexcom's app and your profile regardless.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I agree that Dexcom shouldn't be sharing that with third-party companies.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: Now, do I care if Dexcom is just sharing that data with tandem if I'm on a tandem pump, or with omnipod if I'm on an omnipod pump, or on the twist, or whatever it is.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: No, I don't care.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: So it it's like it's almost like a catch-22 that we're in.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: Like, of course, we're pissed off at that we didn't know it, we didn't know it was coming, first off.
25:04
SPEAKER_02: Second of all, the way it was turned, it was it came out.
25:08
SPEAKER_02: And the third is like, what does this actually mean?
25:11
SPEAKER_02: If I press okay, I accept what what am I accepting too because it's not clear.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: I I call this the Chick-fil-A analogy.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: You know why Chick-fil-A is closed on Sundays?
25:24
SPEAKER_01: Because they don't want to work on Sundays.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: No, no, because they're a religious organization, they're privately owned, they can do whatever they want.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: So this is the you could show up, you could have a Southwest flight, you could show up at the airport, and they'll be like, no, you're not allowed on the flight.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: They own, they own it.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: There's a private company, they don't have to let you on.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: Same thing with Dexcom.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, but I'm not hold on, hold on.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm giving you an answer to what this all is.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: If you don't want to use it, if if if it's if it's not up to your standards, don't use it.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you another thing, and I don't I just don't realize that many, maybe not not everybody has realized this, but as we've lost jobs to AI, comp and companies replace positions with AI.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: And sorry to say it, but we're still under this administration.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: People have come to realize what is what really is a customer service hotline?
26:19
SPEAKER_01: It's just a waste of time and money.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: It's truly just a waste of their time.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: So companies are completely getting rid of that.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: There is no more calling and complain like that's it's just a waste of their money.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: It's not this is that the excuse I said in the beginning, we're private, don't use us.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: That's what people say now.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: Like, you don't like it, don't use us.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna waste millions and millions of dollars on fielding people's complaints.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: And I disagree.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't think this was an IT.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: I think this is this is the stance that they want to make.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: This is what Dexcom wants to be.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, and this is only playing devil's advocate, but you mentioned it.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Dude, they're a medical service company.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: Like that must, that's a that must be a legal nightmare at all times, you know.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh, 100%.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: And and from my perspective, the sharing of the information is what all companies are doing because they're trying to build an AI model.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's the whole thing here.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Like you're and you're shaking your head, yes.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: So you already know what I'm gonna say.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, so yeah, of course they're gonna handcuff if if you again, if you don't want to agree to it, don't use the don't use the product.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: But to your point, nobody's gonna read it.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, go ahead, go ahead.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: You want to go ahead.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: No, I was just I I agree with you and I disagree with you.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: Because I I agree with you in in this in the stance that it's a privately owned company, they're gonna do what they want to do.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: But here here's my red flag with this.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: This is this is what I feel like is a no-no for me.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: When you are messing with someone's health, and we all know DexCon is they they are a I mean, you said they're a medical company.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: They're a medical device company.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: So they're dealing with medical things, medical privacy, HIPAA.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: They're dealing with all that stuff.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: And that's a real that's a real thing.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: And when you start messing around with not allowing people to access their information, that's where it becomes an issue.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: And that's why this is such a big problem.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: It's not a big problem that DEXCOM is trying to build an AI model and updating their service agreement and that they're gonna take all your data from the DEXCOM, which is just your CGM data and what you're putting into the app in the first place, and giving it to AI so AI can learn so they can build an AI model for later.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: Right?
28:58
SPEAKER_02: Every company's doing that.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't have a problem with that.
29:02
SPEAKER_02: What I have a problem with is the fact how they rolled it out, the fact that people were being interrupted in in their 10-day, 15-day window with like, if you don't accept this, we know you're in, we know you're in the middle of your 10, 15-day window.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: We know that you're looking at your blood sugars.
29:23
SPEAKER_02: But if you don't accept this, you're not gonna be able to do it.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna be able to see your numbers.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: That's fucked up.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: And they know it because they've they've said it.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: They've literally said it on other podcasts, they've literally said this in it from what people are saying and showing on social media, they know they fucked up.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: They know they did.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: And they're trying to make amends for it.
29:46
SPEAKER_02: But the problem is, why was this launched in that way in the first place?
29:52
SPEAKER_02: And we'll never get that answer.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: If it was a negligence problem, if it was some IT person that pushed Go when it wasn't approved yet, or or DEXCOM legal team hadn't really looked at it yet, but someone pushed Go, like that's a problem.
30:10
SPEAKER_02: Internally.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: But just come out and say that.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: You don't even have to say who the heck it was.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: They could straight up lie and say, yeah, this was an internal problem.
30:20
SPEAKER_02: We were and we've taken care of it.
30:21
SPEAKER_02: We're taking care of it on the on the inside.
30:24
SPEAKER_02: If they came out and said that shit, like, you think people would care?
30:27
SPEAKER_02: No, but that's no, they would not as much people would care.
30:31
SPEAKER_02: But the problem is is all is the people that it happened to in the first place, for the people that didn't want to opt in because they just they want to rightfully know what they're opting into, and tried to call and tried to get emails.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: Like, okay, there's a window.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: I think there was like a this small window that if they if you didn't opt in on, you couldn't opt in at all.
30:55
SPEAKER_02: Or something like that.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: I don't I could be totally wrong with that.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: But there was some window that someone was talking about, and she kept emailing, she kept calling, this person kept emailing, kept calling, and she wouldn't get a straight answer.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, oh, it's gonna take us 14 days.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, well, my window's three days.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: I've got three days to figure this out.
31:16
SPEAKER_02: I want to know what this is.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: So the the way that they rolled it out was is just it was so bad.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: So bad.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: And then I saw, and then this is another really, really good point to all this.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: I saw another person talk about, which I can, again, I completely agree with this person, just talking about the uproar about how this is rolled out.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: And this person was basically saying, like, okay, I can understand that everyone's in an uproar.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: The way it was rolled out wasn't the right way.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: But if you should, if you want to be in an uproar, why don't we be in an uproar about the accuracy of the G7?
31:55
SPEAKER_02: Why don't we be in an uproar about how the FDA caught DEFCOM trying to save money and putting the sensor, getting parts of the sensor from a third-party company.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: And I've been saying this for years.
32:10
SPEAKER_02: 100%.
32:11
SPEAKER_02: So I'm just I'm just making a point of like that we're in a we're in an uproar right now because of the way that it was handled, and 100% they could have handled it a completely different way.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: And my hopes is if something like this where they want to bring out another update at some point, that they learn from this mistake and and and bring it out in a different way.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: The uproar, this this other person that's saying this is completely correct.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: We should be in an absolute uproar.
32:41
SPEAKER_02: I have not seen the uh as at least from my vantage point, I have not seen an uproar about the inaccuracy of that G7 over the past year to two years.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: It is going downhill, like in terms of the frequency of the inaccuracies during the 10 days and by CGM.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
33:03
SPEAKER_02: It's going it's gone downhill for the last, I would say, even 12, I would just say 12 months.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: It's probably been longer than that.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: But people aren't giving an uproar about that.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: They're giving an uproar about this, which I can pick I can understand the uproar.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: But it it was when this person, this other influencer was talking about this, I was like, oh my God, it's so true.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: Like we're all humanity's always worried about what's happening in the moment instead of what's happening as a trend over time.
33:32
SPEAKER_02: And over time, the trend has been that the G7 has been inaccurate for a lot of people.
33:37
SPEAKER_02: And but we're not in an uproar about that.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: But this, we're in a crazy uproar because it affected so many people at once.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: A, use this pod, use our podcast to document issues.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: Like we've been doing this for years, bro.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've been talking about problems with Dexcom for a very long time.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: I think it's hard to have an uproar when there are so many new consumers being added daily.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: So you know what I mean?
34:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, Dexcom is still in this very much growth, like they're in a growth bubble.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: They are still on, hold on.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: They're still in a growth bubble because this product is still relatively relatively new.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: It's it's getting it's still that's the thing that they can say, you know, we're still getting better, this and that.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of I I feel like there's this will be a good uh case study in corporate in corporate sorry to say it, corporate greed, corpor what it this is a case study, and what it looks like to take a product that is that is built for a very, very, very, very, very small population of of of people, right?
34:47
SPEAKER_01: Say say it was only made for type one diabetics.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: That's like five percent of the US population, right?
34:54
SPEAKER_01: However, to make that product work, you have to bring people in from all over.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: You have to have marketing, you have to have, you know, you have legal, you have, you have sales teams, you have development, research, all these things that have to come together.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: Those aren't people that are aware of what it's like to be a patient, to, to be, to be in a very different world of of of consumerism, right?
35:20
SPEAKER_01: This isn't an apple.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Like when Dexcom came together, they weren't looking at themselves as as an apple.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: I think they look at themselves as an apple now.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: They're like revolutionary and they're the best, and they've brought in all these other people.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: So in my opinion, you've kind of the train, the train is left to station, man.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: You're never gonna get this back to being a real medical device.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: I think this is it's bigger than that.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: I think there's I think people have already lined their pockets and they don't they don't want that to stop, you know.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: So Yeah.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: I I would disagree with you.
35:55
SPEAKER_02: In what sense?
35:56
SPEAKER_02: I would completely disagree.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: It is still a medical device medical device, and it always will be a medical device.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
36:04
SPEAKER_02: It always will be.
36:05
SPEAKER_02: They're thinking bigger, they're thinking bigger than that.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: Who, Dexcom's thinking better bigger than that?
36:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:12
SPEAKER_02: What else does Dexcom do besides the CGM?
36:15
SPEAKER_01: That that's the point.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: They would they will pair, they will take any, they will, they will put any product now under that umbrella.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: They will start to do that.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: You just watch.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: That's how that's how mini, was it, was it miniman or whatever?
36:30
SPEAKER_01: They grew the same.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: That was never a pump company.
36:33
SPEAKER_02: No, it it became a subset of that company.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: And now, and now they look at look at look at what that company has done.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: Look at the growth of the company last year.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: All I'm saying, Graham, all I'm saying.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Hold on, hold on.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: That that is now a is it who wait, is it Minimet or is Minimet owned by somebody else?
36:53
SPEAKER_02: Who's like the mother Medtronic?
36:55
SPEAKER_02: So it's Medtronic, but Medtronic is also, I think, either the parent or no.
37:00
SPEAKER_02: No, it's Medtronic is part of another company.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: Correct, correct.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: Point being, I've been diabetic long enough to watch that stock grow into a into a multi-multi-billion billion billion dollar company.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: Like they are, they are they've done it right by all intents and purposes, but that's become a but that's only because they they they don't just do diabetes.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: And that's what DEXCOM needs to do.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: That's what DEFSCO.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: Dexcom isn't going to do that.
37:30
SPEAKER_02: If they do, then they're in a sense, you're right, they're not gonna be they're not just going to be a CGM company, but from the day that they started till today, which is why Dexcom hasn't gone into pumping.
37:45
SPEAKER_02: Because they want to be the they want to be the gold standard, which they still are, of CGMs.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: To this day, I would argue that DEXCOM is probably the gold standard.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to say gold standard, but the most popular, we'll just say most popular CGM.
38:07
SPEAKER_02: Now, things are happening that are really cool with the Abbott Libre, with the Eversons 365.
38:14
SPEAKER_02: I I believe there's another C there's a couple other CGMs that are coming on the market, have come onto the market the last two years, because it's gonna create competition, which is gonna make Dexcom either get better or expand.
38:28
SPEAKER_02: Right?
38:28
SPEAKER_02: They're gonna have to either get better or expand.
38:30
SPEAKER_02: That's the only two options they're gonna have.
38:32
SPEAKER_02: Because things like this, where people are already fed up with the inaccuracies of Dexcom and moving to the Abbott Libre or moving to Medtronic and using their CGM or whatever it is, people are already fed up with Dexcom and the inaccuracies.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: So unless Dexcom gets better, their hold or their seniority, I guess you could say, on the market with CGMs is gonna start falling away if they don't make the technology better.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: And if they don't make the technology better, they're gonna lose market share.
39:10
SPEAKER_02: If they lose market share, the only other option is to create other products to make up that market share, which is what Medtronic did.
39:20
SPEAKER_02: Medtronic just became a pump, was a, was a pump company.
39:23
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, oh, well, we want to we want to get into CGMs as well.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: And that didn't work very well for them and never has.
39:30
SPEAKER_02: Their CGM still is, I've heard, is crap because they're a pump company.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: They're not a CGM company.
39:38
SPEAKER_02: They're trying to do two things instead of doing one thing that really, really well.
39:41
SPEAKER_02: And that's why right now Dexcom is the head of the Honcha of CGM because they only do CGM.
39:48
SPEAKER_02: Abbott does all kinds of different stuff.
39:52
SPEAKER_02: They don't just do CGM.
39:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, CGM is like the smallest of the small of their of their product market, right?
39:59
SPEAKER_02: So it that that's why Dexcom is it is you know the gold standard or everyone uses Dexcom.
40:06
SPEAKER_02: Because up until now, I would still say now, they've done the best in developing the CGM.
40:13
SPEAKER_02: The technology's gotten better, the app functionality's gotten better, even though it's inaccurate right now, and I can't stand that, the product is still getting better.
40:24
SPEAKER_02: Just like Abbott's CGM is getting better, just like the Medtronic and their site sensors, things are just getting better.
40:32
SPEAKER_02: And the more and more competition we have, it's going to force Dexcom to either continue to evolve and try to get better, which I think they will, and or move to a different market or a different place in the market.
40:46
SPEAKER_02: As which is what you're saying you think they're gonna do.
40:48
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
40:49
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you're right.
40:50
SPEAKER_02: Maybe they will go to a different part of the market.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: What if, like I have a question for you?
40:54
SPEAKER_01: What if, what if implantable, like an implantable type CGM became the new standard?
41:00
SPEAKER_02: The EverSense that's the Eversence CGM.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay, hold on.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: This is my question, and this is like there's always gotta be a motive behind it.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: Is Dexcom worried that that is going that that that they're not gonna be able to be in that game?
41:15
SPEAKER_02: No, because that's not their product.
41:18
SPEAKER_02: Their product is not implantable.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: I know.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: Are they that's my point?
41:22
SPEAKER_01: That's my point.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: They're capitalizing off this disposable, this disposable sensor type thing.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: For as long as they can until things transition.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: It's like people always forget Netflix started by shipping people deep hard copied DVDs.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: Correct, yes.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: They built themselves into what they are now by by using hardware versus the you know, you know, you know what I mean.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
41:49
SPEAKER_02: Something physical versus something I I don't know.
41:53
SPEAKER_02: This is my personal opinion.
41:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if implantable is the wave of the future.
42:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: Right now it's very challenging.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: It's a very challenging technology.
42:06
SPEAKER_02: There's challenges in that technology.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: Now, they can argue that the accuracy is way better, but I have my other thoughts about it.
42:18
SPEAKER_02: Which is why DEXCOM being able to make the product smaller, reduce the amount of technology that's in it, but make that technology really good is going to be the wave of the future for them because it will keep their costs low.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: Where something like an implantable CGM, I I don't know how much that thing costs them, but I bet it's more than what the DEXCOM costs to make.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: I would I would imagine.
42:47
SPEAKER_02: Right?
42:47
SPEAKER_02: So I think that's what Dexcom is looking at.
42:50
SPEAKER_02: How can we keep our market share?
42:52
SPEAKER_02: Because they have a shitload of it.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: How can we keep all that market share and then expand it?
42:57
SPEAKER_02: Which is what they've also done with the Stella, with the CGM for type 2 diabetes and people that just want to look at their blood sugar.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: So really they Dexcom has two a product for diabetes across the board now.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: Abbott, Abbott, they created the lingo, right?
43:17
SPEAKER_02: So now they're following in Dexcom's footsteps.
43:20
SPEAKER_02: I can't remember who came out at first, but both of them are following in the footsteps of like, hey, CGM could be the wave of the future for looking at your overall health.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: Let's not just look at type one, but let's also look at type two.
43:34
SPEAKER_02: Let's also look at athletes.
43:36
SPEAKER_02: Let's also look at general population.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: How can we get it get that technology in their hands?
43:41
SPEAKER_02: I'd be interested to see what the product sales are from the G7 and G6 to the DEXCOM Stella.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: How close are they even close?
43:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
43:58
SPEAKER_02: Right?
43:58
SPEAKER_02: Because they because we know that.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: More type twos than type ones.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, you would think it'd be it would it would it would kill it because you're opening it up to the market, to the market of everybody.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: You're not opening up.
44:08
SPEAKER_02: But every but you gotta remember that there's still stipulations from the insurance point of the insurance that doesn't allow everyone to go on it.
44:16
SPEAKER_02: Right?
44:16
SPEAKER_02: So that that's the difference.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: But because the technology isn't as I don't think it's as sophisticated, again, this is my thoughts, my personal thoughts.
44:27
SPEAKER_02: I don't think the Stella is as f sophisticated as the G7 or the G6, the G7, G715 Day, because it just shows your blood sugar.
44:36
SPEAKER_02: You don't need to track insulin, you need you don't need the you don't have a bunch of other f other functionalities that you need to do as us with type one do.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: Right?
44:46
SPEAKER_02: So Dexcom is trying to build all these features within the Dexcom G7 app to be able to deal with all these things that you can track within one platform.
44:57
SPEAKER_02: Where the Stella, I just need my blood sugar.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
45:00
SPEAKER_01: You know one thing that does really interest me though, can you imagine taking like let's let's go back to the idea of why they're taking this data to create AI-powered features, right?
45:11
SPEAKER_01: So like to use AI more powerful to be able to use AI.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: Predict predictability and trends.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: It would be really cool though to see if like imagine overlaying millions and millions and millions of people on a 24-hour, you know, a 24-hour day window and what trends look like and what like you could probably find some really, really, really interesting data about blood sugars, about the way uh human, I don't want to use the word anatomy, but like, you know, just what a graph would look like on a day-to-day, times and ranges, uh, things like that, you know, time and range versus A1C, or you know, you can you can then filter it by your age and your race and your sex and your where you fuck, you can do it by where you live in the country.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, I talk about how much different my life is because I'm sweating all the time versus you guys now that got just hit with the cold weather or whatever, you know.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: So I you know, I I'm not as afraid of the company selling the but that that is the other thing that I like.
46:17
SPEAKER_01: That's another thing that if you if you if to your point Dexcom says, you know, well we don't sell it to to third parties without consent, this and that.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: That's obviously all that's obviously not that's obviously then they're just wording it a certain way, what to mean, okay, that yes, that is true, but then they'll turn around and be like, but we can just do X, then that's it.
46:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, at the end of the day, dude, they can do whatever the hell they want with your data.
46:47
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
46:47
SPEAKER_02: When you opt in, regardless of what it actually says.
46:51
SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
46:51
SPEAKER_02: 100%.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: But the uproar is how it was rolled out.
46:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't think that the uproar is about them taking your data.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: Because if you're smart, which a lot of people aren't smart, they're taking your data anyway.
47:06
SPEAKER_02: The uproar is the messaging that I'm I'm on day five, and all of a sudden I got this app, this update on my phone, and now I can't see my blood sugars unless I opt into something that I don't know what I'm opting into.
47:20
SPEAKER_02: And DEXCOM recognizes that that was a problem, that that it shouldn't have been rolled out that way.
47:25
SPEAKER_02: They recognize that.
47:27
SPEAKER_02: So now that we've had a week or almost a week through this, like, you know, for me, it's like it's still messed up that the way it was done.
47:38
SPEAKER_02: I still want to know where my data is going.
47:40
SPEAKER_02: Are you just sharing my data?
47:42
SPEAKER_02: If you're sharing my data, are you just sharing my data with pump companies, with companies that you're partnering with to make my health to optimize my health, or are you selling my shit on the black market?
47:56
SPEAKER_02: Right?
47:56
SPEAKER_02: Not that they are, but not that they aren't.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: I have no idea.
47:59
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing too selling, right?
48:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
48:01
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I mean, you're gonna sell my blood sugar readings to on the black market?
48:06
SPEAKER_02: Come on.
48:07
SPEAKER_02: Like, come on, right?
48:09
SPEAKER_02: But if they if they're able to, and I'm not saying they can't, if they're not, if they're able to, which is one of the things I heard at the very beginning when this all came out, is not only could they look at all of your browsing history and sell that shit to marketers, to scan to people that so they can just market to you, not only could they do that, but they could also take data from other apps that are in your phone, like your photos, videos, that like voicemails, text messages.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: What we were saying, what kind of company are people like what kind of company do you think Dexcom is?
48:51
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying that they're doing I'm not saying that that's actually happening.
48:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm just saying that that's the uproar that people are having.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: Well then people are stupid.
48:59
SPEAKER_02: But they're not stupid, Graham, because it doesn't say that it's not doing that stuff.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: If Dexcom is the problem is going into your photos, what companies Dexcom working with to be why would they like what do you think?
49:10
SPEAKER_01: Who the military?
49:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm I mean, it could be anybody, dude.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: It literally could be anybody.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: This is what it is.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: This is my prediction or sorry, this is my assumption, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: If you take everybody's data, right, and you create your your the idea is again to stack it, they're gonna stack it on top of each other to find trends and this and that.
49:39
SPEAKER_01: The idea is they then get a new consumer, say it's Graham Hubbard, a 40-year-old male, five foot whatever weighs this, as many, as many possible things as they can find to refine me.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: And in the cases where the DEXCOM isn't working, if it's gone down, they are gonna supplement that AI data into what your blood sugar would normally be.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: So are you following what I'm saying?
50:12
SPEAKER_01: So like I'm not following you with supplementing your okay.
50:16
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
50:17
SPEAKER_01: Say my blood sugar is 140.
50:19
SPEAKER_01: Yep, but the technology, the technology isn't good enough to consistently give me accurate blood sugars at all times.
50:30
SPEAKER_01: They can they can supplement they can supplement AI data to say normally your blood sugar would be X.
50:40
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
50:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I believe they would be gathering AI.
50:45
SPEAKER_01: So like essentially, it would never appear that your DEXCOM is not working, it's never down because even in the moments when it's not working, there is enough AI data that is evolving and ever changing open source to tell you well, based on millions and millions of other people, this is what normally would be happening with your blood sugar.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
51:08
SPEAKER_02: Yes, but here's the problem.
51:10
SPEAKER_02: Here's the exact problem with that.
51:12
SPEAKER_02: It's unsafe.
51:13
SPEAKER_02: It not only is it unsafe, every person's different.
51:16
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
51:17
SPEAKER_02: How every person works, how their body works throughout the day.
51:20
SPEAKER_02: Like that AI can't detect stress, that AI can't detect uh hormonal changes, that AI can't detect if you just put insulin in or didn't put insulin in based off of because most people don't actually put what how much insulin they're they're using periodically throughout the day and entering that data in there.
51:40
SPEAKER_02: So that's why Dexcom needs also needs permission for people that are on pumps, needs permission to go into someone's pump and grab that data too.
51:52
SPEAKER_02: This is what I think is this is what I think they're doing, they're grabbing this data for.
51:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
51:57
SPEAKER_02: The first thing I think they're grabbing this data for is like you're saying, to build AI predictive models.
52:04
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things I heard that they're working on, which is actually pretty cool, is inside the app, they're trying to build more, a better service for nutrition.
52:16
SPEAKER_02: Right.
52:17
SPEAKER_02: So now what what I heard they what they were doing is you know these apps that are out there like GlucoseSense, that you can take a picture of your of whatever you're eating and then it'll give you an a pretty, pretty accurate.
52:31
SPEAKER_01: That's dope.
52:32
SPEAKER_01: I did not know about that now.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
52:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm using the app right now.
52:35
SPEAKER_02: I use the app all the time.
52:36
SPEAKER_02: No, I've never heard of this.
52:38
SPEAKER_02: It's called GlucoseSense.
52:39
SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's incredible.
52:41
SPEAKER_02: So it's connect, you connect, you can in Glucose Sense is why I love GlucoseSense.
52:46
SPEAKER_02: You can connect your Dexcom and your CGMs to it.
52:48
SPEAKER_02: You can connect all of your fitness and health apps to it.
52:51
SPEAKER_02: Like if you have an app watch, a whoop, oh, an Oral Ring, a Fitbit, whatever it is, you can connect all that stuff to it.
52:58
SPEAKER_02: So it's again, but you're it's all sharing data together, but it updates your your DEXCOM readings in the GlucoseSense app every 30 or every three hours, I think it is.
53:10
SPEAKER_02: And then every single day it gives you a score out of 10, right?
53:13
SPEAKER_02: So you start at you start high depending on what your blood sugars were overnight, right?
53:19
SPEAKER_02: So if your blood sugars are in range, they're awesome, they're stable, you could start at like an eight or a nine out of ten in the morning.
53:25
SPEAKER_02: And then at the end of the day, you could be a three because you had so many fluctuations.
53:29
SPEAKER_02: So it takes that information, all the information from DEXCOM and gives you insights.
53:34
SPEAKER_02: Well, it looked, it looks like here your blood sugar is spiking and it's trending to do that all the time.
53:39
SPEAKER_02: Try these three things, right?
53:42
SPEAKER_02: So now it it becomes it helps you with that.
53:44
SPEAKER_02: So the other thing that GlucoseSense does that I think DEXCOM is now trying to do is you can take a picture of your food and it's gonna give you a pretty accurate ratio of what your carbohydrates is and all your macro, how much protein is in it, how much fat's in it, literally by just taking a picture.
54:02
SPEAKER_02: And you can tell it things in the message board like, hey, this is actually X, Y, and Z, this is how many carbs this is, how much you can tell it all that stuff to make it more precise.
54:12
SPEAKER_02: But literally, you can take a picture of something when you're out to a restaurant when you don't know what the carbohydrate ratio is, and it does a pretty good job of being pretty accurate or being pretty close to what the carbohydrate ratio is.
54:23
SPEAKER_02: That's what Dexcom, I guarantee that's what Dexcom's using doing.
54:26
SPEAKER_02: And eventually what they could potentially do is you take a picture of your food, okay?
54:30
SPEAKER_02: It tells you, okay, it gives you a warning message like, hey, we think it is this many carbs.
54:36
SPEAKER_02: Are you going to use that many carbs when you dose?
54:39
SPEAKER_02: Yes or no?
54:41
SPEAKER_02: No, I I did the calculations, it's actually X.
54:45
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay, cool.
54:46
SPEAKER_02: We'll we'll take that into account.
54:48
SPEAKER_02: And now it can share that data with the insulin pump.
54:51
SPEAKER_02: Now the insulin pump becomes more intuitive.
54:54
SPEAKER_02: Now the insulin pump becomes more becomes smarter.
54:58
SPEAKER_02: I think that's what these that's what these companies are trying to do as DEXCOM continues to partner with other companies, like the pump companies.
55:09
SPEAKER_02: But then here's the other on the other side of this, let's play more devil's advocate because that's fun.
55:16
SPEAKER_02: On the other devil's advocate side of this, the other thing that I've heard that they could potentially do is build a medical profile for you as an individual.
55:27
SPEAKER_02: So DEXCOM is taking all this medical data.
55:31
SPEAKER_02: You're this tall, you're this age, you're male, you're female, you are X, Y, and Z, blah, blah, blah.
55:38
SPEAKER_02: It takes this information and sells it to the FDA, sells it to the government, whatever it is, sells it to a medical body, and a medical body creates a data point to you in basically saying that you are this type of individual.
55:53
SPEAKER_02: Now the insurance company can come back and say, oh, well, you don't qualify for this device, even though you're type one.
56:01
SPEAKER_02: Not saying that it's going to happen, but that's the other devil's advocate thing that people are talking about with taking all of our medical data and sharing it with different companies, is we whoever it might be, can create these medical, like these avatars.
56:19
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
56:20
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm Ken and this is my medical avatar.
56:23
SPEAKER_02: And because of all these data points that AI is pulling from pumps, from CGMs, from my medical history, whatever it is, because you gotta remember, like when you go to the doctor and the deck, the doctor's pulling all your medical information from DEXCOM, or your your numbers from DEXCOM, is DEXCOM also getting your medical information, your blood work, all that type of stuff from your doctor.
56:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:47
SPEAKER_02: Right?
56:48
SPEAKER_02: That could be a thing.
56:49
SPEAKER_02: So because all this these medical data points are being shared on all these outlets, they can create an avatar for you for insulin to say you don't qualify.
56:58
SPEAKER_02: And that's some crazy shit.
57:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, this was all this was this was an awesome conversation, dude.
57:05
SPEAKER_01: I want to continue with this.
57:07
SPEAKER_01: I want to look up a couple things and loop back to this, dude.
57:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:11
SPEAKER_02: This is just the beginning, man.
57:12
SPEAKER_02: This is gonna be going on, I think, for a while.
57:16
SPEAKER_02: Because I think either Dex either Dexcom after after this first rollout, either Dexcom got smart and they said, turn all this shit off.
57:26
SPEAKER_02: No one else gets an update until we fix the messaging, until we fix this stuff.
57:31
SPEAKER_02: Or people are still continuing to get messages.
57:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll put it this way.
57:38
SPEAKER_01: And it's documented here, and I'm proud of us that we are fan.
57:42
SPEAKER_01: Like you and I are not critics.
57:44
SPEAKER_01: I think we're fans, I think we're supporters, but I think we've been we've been very honest about this for a I mean, dude, to the point where I'm off CGM, you know, like I'm a pretty good case study of what's happening in the case.
57:57
SPEAKER_02: But you're off of CGM, but but I would argue that you're gonna be able to do that.
58:00
SPEAKER_01: It started with this, though, but you know this.
58:01
SPEAKER_01: It started with the def it's I was like, I don't like buttons, but it's not because of the data stuff.
58:06
SPEAKER_02: It was because of the inaccuracy.
58:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it just but it felt it just it ha it has felt corporate.
58:11
SPEAKER_01: It has felt corporate.
58:12
SPEAKER_02: Well, it is, it's corporate.
58:14
SPEAKER_02: Well okay, so do you feel the same way about your insulin?
58:17
SPEAKER_01: Never works.
58:18
SPEAKER_02: Insulin's the same thing, corporate.
58:20
SPEAKER_02: It was just well, you can't go without insulin, but you can see the difference to me, Graham, is I feel like the difference is you can't live without insulin.
58:29
SPEAKER_02: So even though it's the same thing, it's corporate, and I would argue that the pharmaceutical companies that are creating insulin, Nova Nordis, Eli Lilly, all the pharma companies that we get our insulin from, they're even worse.
58:42
SPEAKER_02: They're even worse than what DEXCOM has done.
58:45
SPEAKER_02: Even worse.
58:47
SPEAKER_02: But then you're making a statement of it's a corporate thing.
58:50
SPEAKER_02: It's like they're even worse.
58:52
SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna stop taking insulin?
58:54
SPEAKER_01: But Ken, the difference is I could take one unit, two units, three units, four units, five units.
58:58
SPEAKER_01: I can't when I have this app going, it's it's it's the app or nothing.
59:03
SPEAKER_01: It's them or nothing.
59:04
SPEAKER_01: And I don't I it I don't I didn't like that.
59:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't like that it's non we can't like negotiate a couple parameters here.
59:11
SPEAKER_02: But what parameters are you negotiating you denegotiate?
59:15
SPEAKER_02: It started with dude, I don't want to go back over it, bro.
59:17
SPEAKER_02: But you said the alarms were one of the things, but the alarms you can turn off.
59:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, you can readjust the alarms.
59:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I didn't like yeah, whatever.
59:26
SPEAKER_02: So it's the same thing to me.
59:28
SPEAKER_02: We'll continue this conversation.
59:30
SPEAKER_02: All right, man.
59:31
SPEAKER_02: This has been great.
59:32
SPEAKER_02: Everybody, thank you so much for listening.
59:34
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59:41
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59:57
SPEAKER_02: It really helps the show grow.
59:59
SPEAKER_02: When someone that is looking for a diabetic podcast, when you follow the show and it continues to grow, it allows the podcast to be seen and be uh found by other people.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_02: So please make sure that you follow the podcast.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_02: Also, when you follow the podcast, you are notified when new episodes drop.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_02: And we we drop at least two to three episodes every single week on Tuesdays and Fridays, is pretty much when we drop an episode, except for last week when I dropped it on Friday and Saturday.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_02: So sometimes that happens.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, make sure you follow the podcast.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_02: If you need support, if you feel like you need support, is if you're listening to these episodes and you're two, three, four, ten, fifteen plus episodes in, and you feel like you need support with your blood sugars, with your diabetes, with your management, please, please, please make sure that you are, you know, getting on a call.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_02: Like get on a call with me.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_02: This is this is literally what I do.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_02: I look at blood sugars every single day with myself.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm helping and guiding people to actually figuring out what's actually going to work for the long term.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_02: This is about what's going to last for you, what's sustainable, not how are you going to fix your blood sugars today.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_02: It's how you're going to fix your blood sugars tomorrow and for the rest of your life.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_02: How can we get you to be thriving every single day or at least at 80% every single day, every single week for the rest of your life?
1:01:24
SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm going to guide you to do.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_02: And so if you need support, please don't hesitate to reach out, send me a message, uh, click on the button that says get on a free call in the show notes, and let's let's chat.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_02: Even if it's just a conversation, maybe I can just give you some quick insight into some things that you're doing.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_02: So if you need support, make sure you reach out.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, everybody, for listening, and we will see you guys next time.