Latest / Monero Talk / MoneroTopia New Years Celebration! Holiday Special EPI #148

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MoneroTopia New Years Celebration! Holiday Special EPI #148 · Monero Talk

• You are about to opt in to Monerotopia, a show for the Monero community where all are welcome to join. From noob to maxi, no matter what bags you hold. Just sit back and relax to the sweet sounds of Monero's latest progress, or if you're feeling inspired, join us on stage. Remember, the only thing that can stop Monero is a false belief that it can be stopped. And if you want to win the revolution faster, we recommend you remove your XMR from all custodial exchanges immediately. Warning, boating accidents are common around here. Don't forget to properly secure your private keys. Monerotopia starts now. All righty. Hello! She's back. She's back. I'm back just for the final episode. Oh, here we go. Oh, here we go. Look at that. That actually looks terrible. I thought it would look a lot worse. No, it looks good. That's my phone. I can't use the penguin. Yeah, I used to... Sorry, everyone. Sorry to disappoint. That's hilarious. This is great. We can see you. How's it going? It's going. It's going. 2023 treated, yeah. 2023's been wild. Crazy year. Crazy year. 2024 is going to be 10 times great there, right? I feel like things are really... Everything's kind of... How much do I have? Yeah. Yeah. We got the presidential election. We got aliens. We got Benaro being... We got listening from all remaining exchanges. I think we're going to see a lot of action this year, right? I think so. I hope so. We kind of think of it. So, yes, Anita, we're thinking we could talk a little bit about, right? I think we've got, I guess, things that we've appreciated in 2023, things that like, accomplishments. Yeah. I think we don't, we don't like this like, yeah. I love you, Benaro community. We got body waiting for, for price report. And then we'll do viewers on stage. I think viewers on stage, everybody come up. We can kind of do our 2024 predictions. That would be fun. That would be the guest of the weekend. And I'm still going to be talking about the listing. I'm sure. I'm sure body has some good insights into that. But yeah, in terms of highlights of 2023, what would you say? I think I can reflect all the conference definitely in Mexico City. It ended up being like better than we expected. I felt that was, that was an awesome, that was a fun trip. It was, it was a great turnout. Yeah. Pretty awesome turnout. You guys prepared for? Yeah. I mean, it was, it was better than we expected. And like obviously the people are awesome. But yeah, I felt like it was better than, because, you know, it was nerve wracking. We were, that was the first, not the first time, but you know, Mexico City were far. We didn't really go there. Yeah. There was a lot that could have gone wrong. Yeah. We went literally. And there was a lot that did go wrong. I mean, that's a great, the internet. But everyone was super, I mean, I felt bad for you, the virtual peeps, but most of them were understanding. You know, made sure they understood why. Yeah, that was one of the art. And we flew in the day, the night before I can't believe we did that. Can't do that for next year. No, that was ridiculous. We won't be doing that for next year. What else is up there on the list? I would say Argentina. Argentina. Yes. I was up there on the list of highlights for this year when we went down there and went to a lot of big comp. That was awesome. I found my way to Formosa to even out there. Yes. That was awesome for you. That was big. That was a big, that was a big moment to see that, to see that organically happening up there. What else? 2023. What, I mean, we went, oh, Benaro Con was awesome. Yeah, I was awesome. Yeah. What else? I mean, we started a bunch of new projects. Yeah, I'd say those more. Yeah, things, things are looking forward to for 2024. That's more bizarre. XMAR BAZAR. Any day now, right? Anarchio is saying we should have something to test for the year ends, right? He's, he's like really aiming to. Yeah. Right. So we'll see. That's super excited about that. I think that's kind of a nick, right? In the nick of time type of thing, right? We're with these delistings and the talk of how Benaro truly needs to transition into just being that, you know, it's, it's, it's own ecosystem, not tethered to centralized exchanges. So obviously decentralized exchanges will be the solution, but I, I feel like things like XMAR BAZAR are also going to play a vital role there or whatever may be these marketplaces where people can live off of Benaro peer to peer, right? So it's not just about going to an exchange and speculating on Benaro, but if you want to acquire some, maybe you, I don't know, sell your, sell your, sell your bicycle or do some online, do some consulting and sell your services for, for Benaro. So I think that's going to end up playing a big role, hopefully, in helping to build out the Monero circular economy and untethered Monero from the, the fiat, fiat world. So super excited about that. What else we got? Um, no doubt. No doubt. No, no is so, so close. Another one that's like never been closer. We're just talking about it. It looks really cool. Yeah. No, no, it's really coming along. I'm very excited about that. We'll have Abdullah on again because now we have an actual prototype that we've, that's been produced by the manufacturers, a working prototype. So we'll do a show on that and we'll show it off. Um, and then what else, oh, obviously, Monero, Topia 2024. Yeah, 2024. Stay tuned, Wola. We haven't decided. It's still set right there, but we haven't been like, all right, let's do this, you know, because it takes a lot of, I mean, yeah, now this is the background, but we just want to make sure we can get enough ducks in the robe. Yeah. Completely commit because because it's a hike. I mean, it's not very close. I mean, it's beautiful. Love it. You know, people have to figure out if they can get there and that's the most of all of our fall. It's not far for people that are in Argentina. Yeah, obviously. The corner of the rest. So just, you know, just roll out of bed. Like, what do you think? I mean, what's your perspective on that? When you hear Buenos Aires is like, well, it's, you know, it's out of time. No, I mean, it sounds reasonable. Like there's a lot that's happening in Argentina right now. Like, you know, the president they got right now. And then if you want to do it, like, not at the same time necessarily, but maybe back to back with a big con. And of course, for us, it's probably a lot easier to go down there than it is for them to come up here, for sure. So yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just not especially. It's still, my understanding is that it's still a pretty accessible area. It's far for, you know, different people compared to Mexico, but it's still pretty accessible like Mexico. Yeah. I think a lot of people want to like kind of have it on their bucket list of a place they want to go check out, especially like what you said, what's going on with the way and crypto down there, so it just gives them another excuse, another reason to jump on a plane and come check it out. So yeah, I'd say I'd say we're 90% there. Yeah, we just have it. Buenos Aires. And we'll probably announce that in January, right? Once we get a few more ducks ducks in the row. And then alongside with that would be Copa Monero, which we have been working on it. We haven't officially announced the yet, but that, you know, if Monero Topia takes place down there, we're definitely doing Copa Monero, which would be that soccer tournament or football tournament. For those who are not from the States that will do in Ibadete, in Formosa, in the little town of Ibadete, we're going to have like 12 teams that are going to compete over the course of a couple of months with the finals that will hopefully happen around Monero Topia 2024. And there'll be a big, a relatively large Monero prize for the winner. So that should be super cool. And we're like, we're figuring out how to broadcast the games as well. We hooked up with somebody down there. Hopefully reliably. Yeah, somebody who does the Sirette and they like it's actually pretty decent quality. They have, they do, they broadcast the games and then they have like an announcer that, well, I guess they'll be talking in Spanish, but it's. Yeah, but you know, it's like if you're watching the shows on. It's easy enough to understand. It's cool. It's very entertaining. Maybe some gambling will happen on the side, not officially, of course, but we're excited about that. Copa Monero and yeah, I guess that's what I'm angry to. It is. Right. We're looking to go down to Columbia, maybe in February. I don't know. So that's, that's always a hard one to try to figure that in. Yeah, I'd say those are the worst a lot. That's a lot. That's like every year. Like this, the conference itself is. It's going to be a, it's going to be a behemoth. Yeah, that's going to be. But excited looking forward. So yeah, anybody who's been following us, those are the things we have in our mind. Obviously we appreciate all the support thus far. Love and support for everyone. Yeah, we hope to continue to have your support guys and help spread these, these projects and participate in the things we're working on. And as everybody should know, already, Monero Topia is about growing the ecosystem. So anybody that's working on anything, Monero related, you're always welcome to jump on the show. And shout to us if you want to be a special guest or you just jump on at the end of every show when we have viewers on stage. This is really meant to be a community show, a place where we could all come together and build out the Monero community. And as we're seeing, once again with the delistings, I think a resource is like this is more important than ever, right? This is, this is how we do it. We just have to ignore the regulators. Do not comply and just build out our own circular economy over here. And that's what we'll need to do in 2024. Monero moves on. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. With or without us. Oh, anything else you want to throw out there, Nita? No, I guess just, yeah. Thanks to all the support and the love and the community. And you know, we wouldn't be here without you guys. And our sponsors. Thank you to our sponsors. There's Kate Quallett and local Monero for, you know, supporting us throughout the year. Really appreciate it. And I guess that's really it. Yeah, let's move up the show. I bore you too much, guys. I'm sure you're excited about the prize and chatting it up with the rest of the gang. So I guess that's really it. Sweet. So we'll move on to, yeah, price report. Last report of 2023. We're like, we're setting out a cliff over here. The menera, Toby, a price report segment is sponsored by local Monero. Avoid using KYC exchanges. Buy and sell Monero directly for Fia. Where to appear? Hey, what's up, guys? Happy New Year's. Let's see. Let me get my share on this screen. So unfortunately, I think this price report might be a little bit anti-climactic. I got some Christmas toys and I was putting them in my main PC. I were not really PC, but you know, computer. And my power supply went out. So that took me all of two days ago to figure out or figure out and replace. And then now my CPU is overheating because I'm pretty sure moving my case around got air bubbles in my little hybrid all in one cooler. So it's making like gurgling noises. I'm on a borrowed laptop here. So hopefully. Wow. Well, I make some magic smoke. No, it didn't do anything. It just like silently died. Sad. Oh, it's like, man, did I like short something on the motherboard? It has dust finally murdered my case here. Yeah, but no, I finally did the pen test. Apparently you connect two pens together and it should start the fan and it didn't do that. So that was a good. Yeah, the power supply was gone. So anyways, was unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things. It's like, I have to open my case and reconfigure things to connect this stuff. And you just like you just know the chances of something going wrong. When you have a steady state system, like you just never want to touch it. Like you do servers. So you know, like if it's working and it's complex, just like don't touch it. Like handle it delicately. Like maybe don't even restart it. Like update it in place if you can. Yeah, my servers are paying in the ass to restart. Yep. I totally understand. Come on guys, don't need to body get this man a new power supply for his computer. No, I bought it. I went. I actually found a store finally in Mexico that like sells this stuff. In Mexico, everything is like shipped. You buy it and they ship it to you. And it's hard to find sometimes stores that have like specialty items. I mean, to be honest, that's like, that's a lot of a lot of the ways things are going here too now. Like, I mean, most PC stuff you have to buy online now unless you have a micro center near you. Yeah. Yeah. We may or may not have a micro center nearby or a fries. Is fries still a thing? No, they're out of business. They died. They're all blown away. Never heard of fries. Micro center. Yes. Lucky. Jules. Okay. So I think I'm sharing my screen now. You'll tell me. No, but there's no problem. I'll have a way to end the year though, right? I feel like with the delisting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be great. Like finally, thanks guys. I'm not sure how much I'm not sure how much finance matters anymore when it comes to Monero. I think we got the word out. I think most people got off of finance. I think they're still used in like fixed float, changely and a bunch of these other, a bunch of these other like, they're not decentralized, but to accountless exchanges. So maybe like the liquidity there is still kind of important for those kinds of trades. Definitely, it's going to be a liquidity hit, but man, I'll take the lower liquidity and see how we do on our own with price. I'm not. So after we found out after Howard Chiu showed us that they were using Monero miners and probably at a loss given how like inefficient those miners were, I now really question whether or not did they finally get enough Monero to cover their books? Did they spend some amounts of time like basically covering those shorts? I think that's possible. I'm not sure that we should expect any massive price pumps. And if anything, remember the last time that the cabal tried to like do a plan delisting of a Monero off bitrix, even though there was like no volume on bitrix. Remember like price, everything just like relatively tanked. Our price relatively tanked. The charts didn't make any sense. Don't be surprised if they delist Monero and it's not confirmed. I don't think we've like heard an official word from Binance. They have been like delisting in some countries here and there. But if like they totally delist Monero, don't be surprised if the cabal still finds a way to sell Monero and take the price. Like don't be surprised if they saved up a little stash to try and like push the price in the direction of the narratives they want to create. So this might be like some short term pain. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, but like it might be. So just like just be prepared for that guys. If we get that final delisting move like the cabal loves to move price in the direction of the narratives that they're you know that they're promulgating. So but overall I mean this is a good thing like is holding your coin on Binance. Is that really adoption? No. So I think ultimately it's what we've all been waiting for right? Anybody who's been in Monero for the legitimate reasons knows that this was kind of the direction things were headed. And the way we ultimately we want things to go, but there might be some growing growing pains that go along with it right as we transition. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll really have to get more liquidity onto the different decks is this already has pretty solid liquidity, although I haven't checked it out in a while. I need reinstall it. I just deleted it years ago because I'm like, well, I'm in Monero now. I don't need Bitcoin. Occasionally, I unfortunately still do need Bitcoin, but yeah. I will say like things that come to mind, right? Like you said, like the insulate there are instant exchanges that I think rely on Binance, right? You know, even I've been talking on the show how we go. You could go down to Buenos Aires, right? And you can go into these Quavas and you could exchange US dollar bills for pesos. You could also exchange crypto for pesos. All those Quavas use Binance is my understanding, right? Interesting. Like even that right there. Now does that mean you can no longer swap your Monero into pesos? In order to, you know, I guess you'd have to, you know, use another, you know, exchange your Monero into another crypto and then exchange it out of Quava. But it's just like those, there is going to be added friction there in places where it's going to effectively harder to on ramp and off ramp. I mean, that's obviously it's going to come with the delisting. Yeah. That's definitely, that's definitely true. There was a guy, I can't remember his name on Twitter, but he was arguing that lower liquidity is a bad thing. And I tend to agree. Like I kind of debated with him a little bit that it's not always necessarily a bad thing. But in this case, like lower liquidity is going to make it, like you said, more friction to use Monero to get in and out of it because, you know, it's not really a popularly accepted currency even among cryptocurrencies. So it still requires us, unfortunately, to swap somewhat often. You know, looking into 2024, maybe there's an opportunity there with Malay and Argentina. I mean, I've said, hey, I've been thinking about moving down there ever since you got elected, but you know, I really want to see him follow through. And so far, like what we've seen is follow through. We've seen him doing things that I've never seen a politician anywhere ever do or reported to have done in history. So this is pretty good. Like this is a good sign. I want to see it continue to follow through. But there might be an opportunity with the Quavas and liquidity and crypto and just going down there and starting a business between dollars and crypto. For sure. For sure. Yeah, we did. I had so I had this guy on last night. His name is Nate. I don't know his last name. He's what is his name? Token dynamics or something? Yeah, token dynamics. Token dynamics. Maybe he's the guy you were talking about on Twitter because yeah, he's he I had a model with obviously the whole show is basically about the binance the listing. So we'll be posting a couple of couple of days and his overall take is initially there is going to be a lot more volatility. He's thinking after the listing. Because of the drop in liquidity, there'll be more volatility. He thinks there's going to be like a drop in price. Like it's a scare or whatever. But then ultimately he sees, you know, manero, manero rising because of it, you know, well because of this theory that there's paper, manero that was being, you know, issued on binance and that will no longer be the case. And once once binance is gone, all we really have in terms of centralized exchanges, major ones is crack him. And there is this thinking that crack in, you know, isn't participating in printing paper, manero because of who they are and the people that have, you know, that are behind crack and Jesse Powell. I mean, obviously we don't know, but that's that's the thinking. I don't know, buddy, what do you think of that overall assessment? I would very much like to believe that crack in is honest here. It was kind of weird the other night or sorry, the other couple of weeks ago and, you know, they didn't really respond to us and they, well, I can't remember their exact phrasing on it, but it sounded like they were telling the truth, but in a way to avoid saying more of the truth. I think the lower they have lower liquidity. So definitely low liquidity implies the potential for heavy volatility. You know, really what we want is upside volatility. We want high by side liquidity and low cell side liquidity. But who knows like what that's really going to look like. There's still going to be demand from dark nets. There's a significant amount of infrastructure that's been built out over the past couple of years. I do think that yeah, his assessment that a price drop really could be in the cards. I'm not super confident that I'm not sure whether or not Binance has covered for their fractional reserve. They might have because again, because of those menero miners, if they have covered that, then we shouldn't expect like significant price pumps anywhere in the near future. But if they like if they have to close all of that out and wind it down, then probably we should expect to see a menero pumping significantly. Maybe maybe an initial crash where they'll try and like crash the price. They'll try and like make everything terrible, you know, get the news out, whatever, buy up as much menero as they can so they can cover their books. Like that might be a strategy that they're going for. In fact, if their fractional reserve at all unless they're 100% reserve now, probably that's going to be the play. That's probably what they're going to do. They're going to like put the news story out there, hit the price and then try and scoop up some menero. They'll be limited in how much they can do that in terms like because if they want to really hit the price, they're going to have to coordinate somehow. Cracking is probably the least bad player out there. I hesitate to say that they're good, but I mean, I think they should be pretty good. Jesse Powell really has to be convinced like he seems like a good guy. So yeah, I mean, I think that analysis is pretty close to probably what will happen. But we don't know if he's even really calling the shots over there anymore, right? So who knows exactly and they're getting sued by the government now. So who knows what kind of like deals they might have to cut there to stay alive. Right. But ultimately you would seem that there would ultimately be kind of a premium for menera, right? If it's going to be delisted from all centralized exchanges, but yet there's this strong organic demand for it for purposes of digital cash, right? Anybody who wants to go on the dark market or whatever it is. Anybody who truly needs digital cash is going to have to go and obtain it. And because of the added friction and less liquidity, I would think there'd be kind of a premium. Just like we see with local menera, right? There's a premium there versus what you see on centralized exchanges. Yeah. I mean, I think there's definitely a lot to that. I mean, we have organic demand for particular use cases at a minimum, right? We have organic demand for certain use cases. So that demand, like especially in dark nets, like no one's going to be like, oh, I'll just go use Bitcoin now. Like, even if it's been using menera, isn't just going to be like, well, it's too hard to get on the exchange. Those people are going to find other ways. And that demand is going to persist. And ultimately, that's what keeps us going. Like, that's why menera is still here is because we really do have organic demand and usage. Exactly. And those other ways of getting it are just going to get easy to the point where it's almost going to be indistinguishable from centralized exchanges, I think. Yeah. And then too, unless you're, okay, so for the people out there that need to buy a million at a time, $100,000, $200,000 at a time, it might be a little bit, it's going to be harder for you. But if you're just buying a thousand here, you know, $5,000 there, whatever, you can use local menera without a problem. Like you can get on there and make that trade. And there's plenty of places to do that. You can get it like cash. You can get it to your bank account. Like there's, there's, there's still going to be ways of finding that liquidity. And oh, by the way, you can just, you can just still just buy Bitcoin or buy Litecoin or whatever and then swap that on an instant exchange somewhere. Or you can buy Ethereum and test out those atomic swaps. It's a, it's a Bitcoin, but I don't know. You got to compete with wizards now. Transaction fees too high. Yeah. I redid my screen sharing. Have you all, is that, can you all see that? Yeah. Oh, okay. Right on. Looks like to there. So let's see. Unfortunately, I don't have too much prepared, but also nothing that exciting has happened. Why don't we start with the stock market? Because that's the most exciting thing that has happened in the past week or so. See stock market NASDAQ, so tech stocks. This was the previous all time high that was set back at the top 2021, November. And then finally, the NASDAQ has beaten it, right? It's gotten above. You couldn't say the same for Bitcoin, right? You can't say that Bitcoin is back at its all time highs and it's beaten at its all time highs. So at the moment, I mean, the NASDAQ is still outperforming Bitcoin. And this is like, this is a trend that tends to happen where it's like, if we looked at maybe we could chart through versus stock. It's been hard for Bitcoin to actually beat the NASDAQ except for big liquidity pumps. So I think that's on purpose. I think that's not like unreasonable considering the way that prices manage. So right here, this was 2017. That was the 2017 peak. And Bitcoin is still not above its 2017 peak in terms of the NASDAQ. So like if you had bought Bitcoin at the peak in 2017, you would have basically been better off having bought the NASDAQ unless you were smart enough to sell the top here. You know, at some point, like another big liquidity run is going to happen and, you know, Bitcoin is probably going to beat this other all time high. I don't think I've done any kind of regression analysis on the Bitcoin, Bitcoin versus the NASDAQ, but you know, I really should. I've got script set up so I can just like kind of automatically do this pretty quickly. But there's just so many things to do, right? I have to do them all. Maybe I can just like send those scripts to other people, publish them on GitHub and let other people play with them and see what they can come up with. Okay. So the NASDAQ has gotten above its all time highs. It's now kind of popped above. We talked about this a few weeks ago where it's like really to feel like bullish. If you really want like that bullish feel in the NASDAQ, you don't just want to hit the all time high. You want to beat it before you maybe make some kind of pullback here. You'll notice that this channel, we have talked about this channel since really last year, like this channel has been a year long channel that's been relevant for us. Let's mute the look for a second. That channel has been relevant for us for price for a while kind of popped above it here. Now above it again. And I'm really like, I'm probably just going to be looking at this channel in a continuous fashion here for the rest of next year as well. Yes, price will probably be above it, but I don't expect it to just parabolically go above that channel right now. So I've been kind of thinking something. I'm not really confident that this market pump is actually a good thing. I'm not sure that it really spells good news for the markets. Like if everything was fine and the economy was fine and there wasn't like really any major problems in the international stage and the dollar was good and strong and the US was strong and the bonds were strong. Yadda yadda. What would be the need to pump the market like this? Why would you need to create this like, to create this situation where the market is just pumping, pumping, pumping back to new all time highs? Is it because inflation is so bad like people, like they need to manage people's expectations so that people don't feel like they're going broke with inflation? Are they trying to out compete gold? So gold is currently pushing up against its all time highs. A story that I guess I hadn't heard of probably because it wasn't reported anywhere. So China had four banks with the LBMA, which is the London Bullion Market Association. The LBMA was allegedly created to overcome the manipulation of, oh I can't remember, there was another major like international gold exchange or market. Anyways, so China had four banks that had joined the LBMA in like 2015, 2016 and those four banks quietly withdrew completely from the LBMA, they're not on their list anymore. At least that's what's being reported quietly by a few different sources but it was completely unreported by the LBMA, by mainstream media at all. So Shanghai and I believe Beijing but maybe it's just Shanghai. They have their own gold, like international gold exchange now. This is one of the ways they're facilitating their own cross-border payments and gold settlements with Russia for oil and other different countries. And I believe recently as of the past month or so, the first gold settlement was accomplished by China for some kind of trade balance. So it does seem like there might be something to this story that the world is de-dolarizing. I think it's more like a slow-motion train wreck or at least it has been for the past, let's just say, few years, maybe let's just say five, six years, something like that. banks still use US dollars in their central banks as reserves but they are definitely, especially the big countries like China and Russia, they do seem to be trying to do trade in things apart from the dollar. But that transition is slow. My guess is they don't want to massively disrupt the economy because the international economy is so integrated. Like China sells so much of their stuff to the United States. They don't want to just crash the United States and crash the demand, crash the dollar is a trading partner and they lose a lot of revenue. So it does seem to make sense to me that we are seeing a transition here away from the dollar but it's slow. I think it's a lot slower than people would probably prefer. So anyways, that's a little bit of a side-rant about gold. Next year I do think gold has reasonably good chances to perform. Well, I'm a broken record on that one, I guess. I've been saying that since really since last year. But okay, gold kind of finished last year down here. And it's done good for gold. The point of gold is to be stable, to be money. And you don't really want your money to be heavily volatile and like oscillating massively. But also you want your money to have a fair and honest price, which I don't think gold does. So when that happens you get this volatility occasionally where it's going to just pump to the upside. So the way this chart structure looks you would think, oh, well, you could go the entire year of 2024 just kind of oscillating this range here. And maybe, right, maybe. But given this week that happened above here, set a new all-time high, given that we've had now multiple weekly closes, in fact, the monthly here, gold is now about to close this month. So last month and this month above, or at least at the previous all-time highs. So I guess this is actually monthly close here because the market closed yesterday. So yeah, I mean, obviously this is a bullish chart, right? You look at this, you definitely would conclude this little chart. Maybe we could take a look at the yearly because, you know, it's the end of the year. So yeah, I mean, looking good on the annual chart, right? We were closing another year higher than gold has ever closed before. Last previous annual close was 2020. So yeah, that's kind of a kind of a little rant there on gold for you for the new year. Let's take a look at bonds, bonds, bonds, because some weird things are happening with bonds. We've seen this drop off here. So this means that bond prices are increasing, right? The yields are dropping, which means that the value of older bonds is now worth more, right? The bonds bought here have a higher value than bonds. So we're seeing this thing again where the federal funds rate, we are now seeing the short-term yield. I think that's the three month, nope, sorry, six month. We're now seeing the six month yield just ever so slightly below the federal funds rate. And remember we talked about this. Once we see all of these yields below this federal funds rate and moving down, if we see that curving down, that's really a warning sign, especially if the yield curve inversion does that. So there's a totally a possibility that that happens in 2019 and 2020 before the whole pre-planned medical nonsense. It wasn't really medical, it was really just government nonsense. They pumped the markets. The markets probably shouldn't have pumped. They pumped them, like, parabolically out of trend. So if we continue to see the NASDAQ pumping parabolically out of trend and then these bonds doing this, we're going to have to really watch our backs for the possibility of some big crash of him that could be happening. It's not here yet, but we are seeing slowly like a slow moving train wreck happening in front of us, but potentially, I'm using a colorful language here, but maybe they figured some stuff out and they're just going to continue pumping the markets and we're not going to have a pullback. That happens, right? That happened from 2009, although it was like 2019 or 2018. And even the 2018 was only a 20% or 15% pullback and then things just continued to go up. We didn't get anything beyond 20% until March of 2020. So that's longer than a decade, right? That is an entire decade of just number go up. So I guess maybe, maybe, maybe we'll just have to see if the signs turn that direction, you know, we'll keep you updated weekly on the price report, hopefully in enough time for people to take evasive actions. Let's take a look at Manero. So yeah, I don't think this is fair. We had this big red candle probably. I mean, who knows? Probably maybe this is partially related to the news of the Binance D listing. Again, probably maybe that's just the cabal trying to make the candles seem what the news is saying, right? Although I think the news came out on Thursday, it's a Thursday or Wednesday, I don't remember. So we didn't get an immediate drawdown on that. So yeah, I don't know. Definitely broke down below that support line there, but Manero tends to break down support lines and then come right back. So I wouldn't be too worried about that crash or I mean, I say crash, what is that? It's almost nothing. That would be 8%, 9%. Yes, that's nothing. Okay, it was just Bitcoin. Yeah, we also kind of broke down what was a slightly support line here as well versus Bitcoin. I guess, I mean, we're basically looking at those same stinking prices that we were at relative to Bitcoin at the height of the hype and the bull market and the leverage and the fraud and all that. So I do wonder to myself, like, is this a sign that these prices we're seeing in crypto aren't real again? Are we really like, should we really believe those prices? I don't know. There's the ETFs coming up. It would be just so special if the ETFs get approved here in the next week or so and then that marks another major top, right? Maybe that marks Bitcoin at like, let's just say, I mean, 47 K is the resistance point and probably that's a very prominent area for everyone to watch to look at. So it's hard to, you know, like, maybe we don't get all the way there, right? Maybe there's just too much selling here for price to actually make it to this obvious sort of 47 K area. We definitely are in the standard deviation band areas where, you know, where we talk about potential for that topping action. Let's go to the things come out mainly that way. Yeah. So these long term blue bands, these are the, like, this is the top of the standard deviation range. And again, these are just, in my mind, they're sort of like silent psychological levels that people have an aggregate that they don't really know that they have. But it's kind of like a map for seeing some of that. So, excuse me. So yeah, I think that, you know, we've already kind of hit like this, this lower band cluster right here. This is really would be another topping area. You know, but the ETFs get approved. You know, maybe we can take a big shot up to the top side here for a moment. But I do wonder, like, how many people are thinking about the same deal? Well, the ETFs got approved. The things I don't hear anyone, at least on crypto Twitter, I don't hear anyone talking about that. So maybe I'd say, hey, by the way, guys, remember the last time the ETFs are approved, and I remember with Coinbase got listed, and that was the literal day of the top. And I remember December 17, 2017, when we got listed on the, on the CME, and that was the literal day of the top. I still don't hear her leaning with talking about that. So maybe there's like, like the oldest, like, like by the news, sell the, sell the event type of thing, right? Yeah, exactly. Like that Bitcoin is like the perfect example of that. I guess crypto in general. But yeah, I still don't see anyone talking about that being suspicious. You know, of what could happen here when the ETFs get approved. So maybe there's just plenty of juice to squeeze. I'm assuming there has to be juice to squeeze or this pump wouldn't. It would also be that right. The large holders, like the Michael sailors of the world or whatever, wouldn't this be a time when they'd be looking to potentially, you know, sell a lot of their Bitcoin, right? As they try to sell it into a pump. Boy, that would be interesting if sailors sold. I don't think he, he might be able to like in the background sort of covertly take shorts against Bitcoin to protect his, protect his stack. And he's, he's probably big enough and smart enough to have done that. You know, like in terms of micro strategy and macro strategy, I think this is other company. Yeah, like I don't think he would actually unload Bitcoin itself. He wouldn't unload those bags. That would be too traumatic for the markets. But he might have taken a short against against that stack to protect it. Oh, another thing that happened of interest, Mt. Gox finally made some payments, but yeah, you've been talking about that forever. So that finally happened. Yeah. Well, it's man, they just, they seem to find every way possible to delay, delay, delay. This time they made payments to people's PayPal accounts, but they made double payments. And so now everyone has to send those funds back, but not everyone's going to send those funds back. So some people already withdrew the funds into positive bank incentive. And everybody double payments. Yeah, I don't think they sent everybody, but they sent a lot of people double payments. So now what are they going to have to do, right? Oh, well, we messed up. I'm sorry. Well, I guess we're going to, we need an extension to sort this all out. It's just like, you can't convince me at this moment that that wasn't. They did something in the background to fuck that up so that they could delay the payments again. And now you could probably just say it's a Japanese lawyer that's like, yeah, yeah, I want to keep stretching this out and get in my paycheck and my legal office and team and we're all getting a fat salary here on the basis of the Gox coin until they're finally paid. And it's actually like, this is apparently something that happens pretty, pretty commonly with trustees that are supposed to be distributing assets like this. So I. Would you say send double payments? I was listening to the recorded stream audio. I didn't hear who it was. Gox, Mount Gox. The Gox. Oh, yeah, that's yep. So yeah, I mean, now it's like, well, they're going to have to freeze all the payments and be like, well, what do we do about the people that wants to send the money back and we can claw it back from PayPal, clawback is illegal term, but it's not the right term there. But you know what I mean? You know, we can claw it back from PayPal, but then that that's bureaucracy and paperwork. And I mean, it's just how, how on earth could they have screwed this up after having like literally two, two years to plan it out. And that's been their whole thing. Oh, you want to make sure it's done right? I mean, their whole mo is just screwing things up, right? It's just, no, they were just meant to be a magical tree. When did they start as a trading company for like those like magic cards or whatever they are? Wasn't that what it was? Yeah, they were like a game, I don't know, some kind of game and game asset trading or just added. And like, yeah, got in way over their head. Yep. What happened to Carpella? So does he still around? Like, is he still like saying stuff? Is he on Twitter? Yeah, he's so like a year ago, he said maybe it was a year and a half ago, two years ago, actually, two years ago, he was like, well, we think the payments might start in September of 2022. He occasionally makes some comments. I think he's still like a prized of things in a way that's like slightly insider like, but I mean, he went to jail, right? He went to jail for like four years. So I guess it's meant to prison. Supposedly got pretty buff in prison, you know, didn't have anything else to do. That's awesome. That is awesome. Yeah, my god, it was a it was a magic the gathering online trading site. And that's what it stands for. Mount Gox, MT Gox, Magic the Gathering Online Exchange. And it was basically a third party exchange for people to trade those cards. Right. Before Bitcoin even existed. Yeah, people on there that was just trading like magical. What is it called? Magical. Magic the gathering online. Magic the gathering. I've imagined this being one of those people and then just kind of falling into Bitcoin from there because that was kind of your your way into Bitcoin. That's incredible cards. Magic internet money. Right. Natural. Yeah, the Gox Trustee knows like a Japanese lawyer that's like handling that they're supposed to be handling the assets of Gox, the remaining assets to distribute them to the to the victims. So like it's definitely not even the it's not even the like original Gox people at all. It's just like a totally different organization and it's still screwed up. What's the number? Like approximately? It's like a 140,000 Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash. But yeah, they tried to make the the fiat payments. That's what the PayPal thing was all about. I'm pretty sure it was just the fiat payments and then they screwed the very first thing they tried to do. They screwed up. So I don't think it was an accident. Right. I forgot. And then you have all that Bitcoin cash there too, which yeah, you were you were you were theorizing that, you know, maybe some percentage of that moves into Monero, right? Especially the Bitcoin cash people. Right. Because those are old schoolers. Go ahead. Yeah. I was theorizing that Bitcoin that that a lot of the Bitcoin moved into Monero because the Bitcoin cash doesn't represent a significant amount of volume, like of money. But you know, I mean, there like if we just take the relative market cap, let's just say a half percent. If a half percent of 141,000 Bitcoin move into Monero, that's that's about 70,000 Monero or I think I have that wrong that would be like 300,000. Well, you know, whatever doesn't matter. One person. You know what? I'm not going to try and do something after I sleep last night. One hundred. Yeah. But I mean, it represents a significant amount of money that could move into Monero and especially in a low liquidity situation could could definitely move the price. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what's going on with Gax there. I guess, you know, we don't really have too much else to talk about here. If you guys wanted to cover anything in particular, this is Bitcoin dominance. So it looks like it's broken down. This is good. You know, screw Bitcoin, like there are solutions they could take. They could, they could like talk to some Monero people and be like, yeah, you know what? Why don't we, why don't we limit SegWit? Like first of all, why don't we just reduce the size of SegWit from three freaking megabytes to two and then tack that other megabyte onto base transaction data? Why don't we limit the number of outputs? Or if you need to use say a hundred outputs, you're going to have to pay a premium on those. Why don't we make it so that if you use more than the base, so you've got your base transaction data, which doesn't include the signature. And then about 60% of that base transaction data is going to be needed for the witness data as a signature. So like in most transactions, in most monetary based transactions, you don't need more than the base transaction data. So the base transaction, like let's just say 150 bytes. So then you need something like a hundred bytes of signature data. I mean, these are rough numbers depending on like which of the many protocols in Bitcoin you're using, but you don't need to use more than a hundred percent of that base transaction data in witness. So why don't they make a graduated pricing structure so that the more data you use and witness the higher you get charged for it? Like there's so many things they could do to make this problem less bad, but oh, for some reason, it seems like all the people associated with block stream and small blocks are so focused on how nothing can be done and you can't stop it. And none of them are saying none of those people that push the small block narrative that that were associated with block stream at some point in the past that made this whole thing happen that are responsible for SegWit and Taproot, by the way. None of them are saying, yeah, maybe we should reconsider the price points stuff like that. None of them have said anything in the kinds of like mitigation strategies that my narrow took. Why, why not? Like it just pisses me off. Like I still like as much as I talked about Bitcoin, I still would like to have seen it like fixed enough for it to be used because we just like we need some, we need a digital freedom money. And we're going to need multiple chains if we maxed out Monero's capacity while remaining decentralized like we're still going to need our chains. So I don't understand. Anyway, so I don't care if Bitcoin's dominance is dropping good. Go ahead. No, no, I love it. Keep going. Yeah, so I mean, we talked about this a few weeks ago. We said, hey, you know, I don't really have a strong opinion what happens with this chart, but we are kind of in the moment where, you know, things people are optimistic. So then shit coins like to pop off when, you know, when people think Bitcoin is going to be doing good and is in a bull market, et cetera. So right now, I think the presumption is largely right. I'm just sitting here thinking how exciting is this though, right? Like we're entering 2024. This is like max entertainment. Monero's being listed for all centralized exchanges. I don't know. It makes me smile. I think it's just people post JPEGs on Bitcoin. Yeah, it's I never thought, you know, things would play out to like literally this degree with regards to to Monero and Bitcoin. Like Monero is really proving itself to be the best form of digital cash. They're doing listening. They're literally just going after Monero and Monero only. Yeah, I mean, that's hilarious. Like how much of a how much of a plug that is. Like, yeah, you all are so scared that you'll have to delist it. Right. Crazy. It's all privacy. Yeah. Yeah. You know, especially that especially that we don't want people accessing that anyone that calls themselves a privacy coin, regardless of whether you are or not, it's like, even if you just like the idea of supporting privacy is wrong, think and we'll deal with it. Yeah, I think it's funny to see like the Zcash people like jumping on this, like how they're being attacked. Meanwhile, Zcash has gone out of their like literally has has made design decisions based on trying to interface with centralized exchanges, right? Yeah. I mean, Monero is really the only crypto that has purposely gone out of its way to not not interface with centralized exchanges and not being able to to apply KYC AML on the coin in any way. Well, Zcash needs the exchanges. How else are they going to sell? How else is Zu could going to buy stake with his 20% Dev Tax? But, you know, one thing I learned about Bitcoin, I like Zu. I've been trying to get Zu on this stuff forever. He got all pissed at me for it. Right. Yeah. He basically was pissed at me. I was like surprised what it ended up being about. It was, I was when we had Vic, I think on here and it was, we were talking about whether or not Zcash should be added to cake wallet. And obviously, I guess I was opposed at the time. Maybe it took it personally the way I was like describing Zcash. I've heard a lot of drama about Zcash and cake wallet. Yeah. Yeah. I know the whole story. I mean, what do you guys think about that? I don't even think I'm that I was all that opposed. That's why I couldn't believe he was so pissed at me. I forget like, oh, maybe he's a big blocker, man. He blocked everybody. Yeah. Yeah. And so now he's not really part of like, has he moved on from Zcash or something? Is he like not really? Oh, I would need to. Like, find a way to follow him because I'm blocked. Yeah. Is he not developing on it anymore? I don't know. I haven't. Yeah, I need to check that out. Follow that. You can enter and then you can use profile. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually every time I see like this, you can't see this tweet. I just go. It's not even quote unquote, dethroned as the CEO of Zcash and somebody else, right? I think there was, I haven't been following closely, but I think there's been internal conflict there. Like, like people didn't like the some of the decisions he was making. Interesting. I thought that. I'm sure there's people. I mean, that might be some fun drama to get involved in for a moment. Yeah. You know, one thing that happened with that, I realized with Bitcoin, so these BRC 20s, they're like ERC 20s, but for Bitcoin, apparently they issue them as like mass UTXOs. It's like they'll do a transaction and just like pollute the UTXO set with shit loads of these BRC 22. So $20 fees isn't enough? Is it what you're saying? Yeah, depends on the day. Try to send a Bitcoin transaction a couple of days ago. And then all the same people, all the same like maxi cards, you're like, oh, they're polluting the UTXO set. No shit, they are. So put a cap on the number of outputs you can have and force them to do if they want to put a thousand outputs. Well, guess what? Now they have to do a hundred transactions. Suddenly those economic price points might not make so much sense. But they're like, oh, we can't do anything. It's like, well, you know what? Y'all fostered that ecosystem that says you can't change Bitcoin at all because it's already so perfect and the best money in the history of the galaxy, both past, present and future. It's like, now you can't actually fix anything. You should in your own bed now sleep in it. Like clap, you know, good job. I don't know. Maybe I'm just like, maybe I'm just cranky. You can kind of fix my game. He's done with it. No, he's not. I love the wizards, man. They're just they're just epic troll. They're like, now they love Bitcoin so much and they're using all of the same arguments against the maximalists. And it's like, you know what? Maybe if Bitcoin diminishes eventually here, maybe some other better coin could fill that vacuum. A real digital cypherpunk. I think we on a talk. I do want to ask you for your are you going to stick around? Yeah, I'm going to I'll have you guys all be listening. All right. Yeah, I want to ask you straight up your predictions for 2024 to put a number on it. I know you probably don't want to. It'll be fun. Like what you're predicting the high could be below. But we could do that all together. Okay. Yeah, that gives me some time to formulate my whatever wrong. All right, buddy, anything else you want to bring up? No, no, I mean, you know, I could talk forever about prices. Ethereum BTC is still holding in this like big ass triangle. I still, you know, we'll wait until we get to the predictions. Yeah. Let's do that. Cool. Well, thanks, guys. I have, buddy. Thank you so much, man. Thank you for everything you did for us this year too, man. Big thank you to body. Thanks for thanks for having me. I really, really appreciate you giving me an opportunity and a place to share my thoughts, of course. All right. Let's, uh, we'll keep moving and we'll see body in a little bit. Should we do, should we do the news or should we like bring everybody up and do one of those things where we go over news together? Is that too complicated? Uh, up to you. Uh, and I guess whatever Tony wants because we got Tony this time once again. All right. Let's try to run through the news. So everybody hears the topics. We don't have to, you know, and then we'll do viewers on stage because I think there's going to be a lot of people I want to jump up today. Tony said he can bring people, but it's up to you. Tony said we can bring people. Yeah, let's just run. Let's run viewers on stage. Get everybody up. All right. Let's do it. Oh, it's the viewers on stage segment. It's that time where we invite you, the viewers up on stage to comment on anything you've heard so far today. Ask the guests the question or maybe talk about one of the news topics. Come on down. Come on down. Last viewers on stage of 2023. Hello. Hello. Hey, Tony. Hey, Tony, how's it going? Good. How are you guys? Hello. Hey, how's it going, Tony? Good. How are you guys? Good. Yeah. If anybody else wants to jump on up, we'll put the link. Let me bring. Let me watch the link there. Give me one second. Okay. Let me. Let me get you. What happened? I'll get you to watch the video. Let me get you to watch the video. I'll get you to watch my videos. People have questions in the comments. They want to comment. All right. So we have this. Hey, I lost. I got a last. A last gun on. Shortwave. Blue. Yeah, Tony, let's, we'll try to run through the news. Not too much time on it. And then we could have people come. Or I guess we could open it up to comments as we go. We'll try that out. Sometimes it gets a little crazy, but I'll try. I'll try to keep things. Okay, sounds good. Yes. Okay. Let's let's start the news. And then if anybody wants to comment anything or anybody wants to hop on or comment on the previous article or anything just just on it. Yeah. There's 40 people watching guys. People are people are welcome to jump up if you're, you know, give it your first go. And all the people watching. We had 50 at some point like and share guys. We never, that's going to be my, my 2024. I promise to myself, we'll have to, we'll have to start saying that more often. Yes. Like it shared the episode. Let's see if he's. This is my first time reading this. Oh, it's really. Yeah. I'm going to get into it because it's really interesting. Yeah. So basically, Binance has categorized privacy with three groups based on the willingness to comply with implementing an exchange only address type. In media, the risk of releasing coins like Monero, which has already stated it will not comply will likely be delisted. I love that. Menero somehow anthropomorphize. It's a common person that's stating it will not comply. I will not apply. But it's funny. Like coins like Monero. They, they, they use a plural with which are points. Like it's like Monero. It's just like, it's just Monero, which I don't want. Monero is becoming the, like the generic term for privacy coins. That's like crazy. It's like, you know, like you Google it. You go to Google, you know, people don't say go to search it. You Google it. You've been there is literally coming to the fact, though, term for describing digital cash coins like Monero. Exactly. It's also funny when people start using dark, dark go and they try to say dark, dark go with, but it doesn't sound good. It doesn't sound as good as it. That's, that's why you say ducat. Ducat. Oh my God. But let's see. That's not the thing that I appreciate about Monero is that it actually has a cool name, you know. It's got an amazing name. I was thinking about the other day. It's just perfect, perfect for the meme of being global, global digital cash. I remember back in the Yahoo and ask these days, I was trying to tell people to search engine, like use the word search engine. Or you're going to end up with something like Band-Aid instead of adhesive medical strip, because when you use like all of these random terms, you end up with one brand name kind of consuming the market share. Yeah. And now here it is forever later. And there's like this resistance against using the words Google it. Right. It reminds me of trying to convince the farmers to use open source software in like 2000. And now none of them can use their tractors because they're like entrenched in this horrible monopoly. Yeah. Yeah. But also mentioned under review projects like Zcash that are actively seeking compliance solutions, but may face community or resource challenges have been given until the end of February. Then we have compliant or actively working towards compliance. Cowies such as fire, which have adopted or are in the process of adopting the new address type are not at the risk of releasing. So if you want to be a good boy, let's say, then you're gonna find this category. And if you're a bad boy, you're gonna be in the middle of the list. Literally listing it in order of, you know, which coin is most digital cash, like. It's hilarious. And then someone said this was interesting. Oh, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's super interesting. So yeah, this is the back story behind who we said they will not complain. This is they were communicating with binary. And who was who else was it? Yes, from Lester, whatever his name is. Yeah. So what does binary say? So binary fate says specifically the minus false responsible for the least things running to sell stuff and I asked. Yeah, so sell stuff. Exactly. Any plans to be non privacy token, I all transactions and address are fully traceable on blockchain and no optional feature to feel make it private. No. That is bizarre. I mean, how is there such a large disconnect between the people that work at Binance and what Monero is? Like, that makes sense. I had that same moment when I was communicating with the Bitmain minor company because they had reached out to us. They wanted to be a sponsor for Monero Topia. And I was like, oh, OK. And they were interested because they were interested in starting to produce ASICs for Monero. They just couldn't understand this concept of Monero being resistant to create. I'm like, wow, that's amazing. If you created one, you should. But they just had no understanding of feeling here. For Binance to ask if Monero had any plans of not being what it is, makes absolutely no sense. Yeah, sure. Let's make it see us for a second. Like reaching out to Bitcoin. Do you have any plans of centralizing, making it decentralized anymore? Because I still want to know who they asked and who this spokesperson is? Doug, would you talk into them? Come on, though. No, it was binary fate. He's showing you right here. It was binary and CELSTA. CELSTA. They were the ones communicating with them. Yeah. Yeah, I'm also doing a big deal. I'm surprised that they didn't say, like, there's no person who can talk on Monero's behalf. Like, it doesn't exist. I don't think they clearly don't understand that concept. So, yeah. I think we'll swing back to that because I'm going to ask people what their predictions on price are. Yes. It's such a good segue to go into this now. Someone said in our YouTube section, bad boys, bad boys. What are you going to do when they come for you? No. Yeah, so now let's talk about Samurai swaps. So, Rotten tweeted, Samurai swaps internal beta spotted having close to 10K. Plus Bitcoin sitting in the unspent world pool liquidity. Bitcoin takes a more cross chain. Atomic swaps will pick up steam from settling P2P deals, producing reliance on CXs, the least away, privacy, honey badgers, doesn't care. And someone posted this picture, which is the most Eastern European picture ever, beer and sea. And I'll leave. Yeah, right? That's Spain. I started somebody to say Spain. That could be Spain, right? I can see the alves. Yeah. Yeah. Could be Spain or it's definitely Europe for sure based on how the packet looks like. This is a salmon. Yes, it's funny. Yeah. But he said, when there are soft demo by Samurai Dev last night, I was amazed at how smooth and fast it went really game changing stuff. So we don't need that. We don't need the bindings at all. Super exciting stuff. I got to get the Samurai guys on a Monero talk or on this show at some point because my understanding is they're only implementing this for purposes of washing your toxic change. Right? I don't know if anybody has insight into this. That's a Samurai person. Toxi, are you familiar? No. Okay. Like, is it, are they going to, I don't think it's being implemented into Samurai for purposes of doing atomic swaps back and forth into Monero and Bitcoin, but for just a toxic change component. The one people were appalled is my understanding, which I guess it will eventually evolve beyond that. Somebody's asking, where's the best place to buy Monero? Good question. Not Binance. Binance. You got to do it. Binance. Well, there. All right, is what most people would recommend in K-pop. I would say the best place is anywhere that's a circular economy. Sell your goods or services for Monero directly. Exactly. That could be a local Monero. Yes. And then, of course, you can buy alternative cryptos and atomic swap, but there are all kinds of resources where a person can find out how to do the last one online. But really, it's all about selling a good or a service for Monero. That's the number one best way to do it, Mr. One with nature. That can't be stressed enough, right? Yeah, that's what XMR Bizarro will be all about. That's how I make my Monero. Provide providing services and earn a Monero. That is the number one best way to obtain. I responded to Tux's question about how people get Monero. He gives you some scuba gear and do recoveries from boating access. There's a lot of Monero to be had. It's kind of to go deep. Very deep to find anything at all. Okay, so let's move forward. This one was interesting. So, the Darknet Market Kingdom was recently shut down in an international operation. How? Well, apparently the owner of five was a good idea to use Bitcoin and send it to the market. And exchange details slash passwords as well as seed phrases to his own email address. So yeah, and then it got shut down essentially. The seizure of the market server infrastructure began on the summer 16th and included early agencies from the USA, Switzerland, Moldova, and Ukraine. Kingdom Market was launched in March 2021 and allows its users to buy or sell, elicit drugs, like documents, sell information and other goods and services that had over 42,000 listings in addition to placing a seizure banner on Kingdom's Market's home page. LE used the Market's PGP key to make a post on the dread, daunting its users. So yeah, just by making mistakes like this. Yeah, so what did, I mean, they would have been taken down anyway, even if they were using Monero sounds like they were just extremely sloppy, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was amazing. Yeah. What anybody have? I would point out that there's a huge, huge difference about using Monero and that is people who used Kingdom would be in fire that's danger if they were on the exchange. Yes, that's a very, very good point protecting, protecting the users. Maybe have any good, Alaskanah, maybe you have some insight into percentage of dark markets that are essentially Monero only or primarily Monero. So by the last thing I saw on dread, I think it's like 84% that somebody else might have seen it more recently, but I'm pretty sure it's like 84% are Monero only. Oh, wow. That means like literally no other privacy coins or whatever you want to call them freedom, I guess. Makes sense. And the numbers going to keep going up and up. I saw this below. The same person that tweeted this post said, I didn't know it was before, but the German authorities were having a laugh like it seems. They changed the name to fall on the kingdom. And then he used the private PGP key to notify peeps on dread that Alan bill was arrested. Wow. So it wasn't the fact that they used Bitcoin. It was the fact that he decided to send all this information to his own email. Even my cash deposits into his bank account. So he was trying to get cut. Oh, I'm trying to get cut. This is kind of an interesting view into one of the things that the dark market has to figure out if they're going to use things other than Monero is they have to figure out a way to fit the security practices of the people operating it. Otherwise you just have to have a better system. A lot of people, they just do their exchange and they're happy with their results or they're not and they move on. But good exchanges usually emerge for a time and then they shut down. And the best ones also don't do any kind of exit scamming. But there's a huge problem with the fact that it's very difficult to vet the people who are running the dark market exchanges. And that includes for like Fed activity too. So it's yet another reason why a parallel economy, Monero ecosystem is so much better than our current systems. The points, the points. Let's go into the next thing. This is Canada trying to implement a universal basic income of 2000 per month. So it doesn't matter how much money you make, you will be eligible for 2000 dollars per month. This is pretty crazy. This will be an influx into the economy that will be highly inflationary. Yes. We all remember what happened with overstimulations during COVID times. We're now paying for it, for all of it, for all of that big time. So let's watch this video. It's just one minute. Oh, we can't really hear it. Oh, oh. Do you want me to pull it up and play it? Is it like you share a tab? If you can share an individual tab? Yes. Okay. Yeah, let me do that. Okay, I'm going to have to stop sharing and then I'm going to show my screen. It's crazy that they're actually that close to potentially adopting UBI. Yeah, I think this should work. Okay. Well, UBI is a good close step to the downfall of any government due to the fact that they have to print money to do it because you can't tax. You can't tax in that case. Can you guys see anything? Let me pull it up. There we go. There we go. Oh, you can see it? Yep. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Good. Okay. So let's watch now. It's literally a tool for making people more reliant on the state. Yes. Strengthening the deep state of Canada. I mean, literally that's literally all that's accomplished there. The story is all this time, right? The Chrome to try to control the food supply, make people make the people reliant on the state. I have kind of an interesting take on this. Oh, I'm sure you do. Yeah. The first off, like if you think of this in terms of numbers, okay, so let's say they give it to the entire population. Okay. So, which is just shy of 40 million people, I believe. And then if you do some quick back of them napkin conversion in US dollar terms, that's like three quarters of a trillion dollars a year. Okay. And the Canadian deficit right now is like 40 trillion Canadian. So, I mean, it's as a percentage of the Canadian debt or whatever. All right. So fair enough. That's a pretty big number, but it's actually not that big compared to the debt that they're already carrying and they're already inflationary death spiral that they've got going on. So, there is actually a really interesting anarchist argument for this. Now, this is assuming that they're not going to use it as an excuse to put everybody on the CBDC and, you know, prevent you from donating money to Canadian truckers or whatever. We all know that's what's really going on. Okay. Yeah. So, I think 100% do implement CBDC. A tail emission in any fiat currency is actually the most anarchist thing. Okay. And it's one of the reasons why I'm a hardcore advocate for Monero's monetary policy is because a tail emission does something that gold can't do. It does something that all of these are. It's one of the best arguments for Monero is the fact that it always maintains an equilibrium. And that equilibrium will always equalize with the market forces of the entire basket of all purchased assets. So, to point out, if you're doing like a massive flood of fiat into the entire population of a country, it has certain elements of a tail emission that is very pro anarchy. Okay. Now, overall, I'm actually super opposed to this idea for a lot of reason, especially the fact that you have this number that can just be adjusted by bureaucrats and all of that other stuff. But at least in principle, you also create a, there's a certain amount of capital that you could hoard in which you are fighting the tail emission that is this, you know, this liquidity injection into the general population. Right. So if you have like, let's say two or 3% of all of the fiat notes of a given currency, but the capital flow into the population is being adjusted for inflation at like, you know, 3% or, you know, what you're actually losing money against the money, if that makes sense. So it almost forces a certain amount of money to go back into actual capital assets and improves money velocity. All right. So once again, like this is by far the worst way to do it is to have a government just like indiscriminately setting numbers and giving it to their insiders or whatever. And only people who are on the tax rolls, I get all of that. But this idea that, what do they call a UBI? This idea that a UBI is like a communist idea is just fundamentally wrong. But the thing is, is the only way we're ever being exposed to it is through like almost a communist implementation. But the truth is, is we're constantly being exposed to it with Monero. You just have to find a way to prevent anyone from controlling the lever, right? And Monero's done a really good job of that, right? So transaction fees are an incredible way to UBI, if you will, because you do want a deflation hedge against your currency. And you also want it to set an equilibrium. UBI is probably the most effective way to do that in a fiat. The problem, and not only that, but you know, you have your, your technological revolution argument, right? And in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Ted Kaczynski would have actually advocated for an idea like UBI, just not in the hands of the government, right? Because it's also a hedge against automation, decapitalizing the individual. Now once again, the way that the commies are spinning this is ridiculous, right? But there is an argument to be had here. And that was one of the reasons why I wish Michael, the interview with Michael, where he would have gotten like a chance to rant about it. Because the dude totally turned my mind around on this, the Michael 10 guy that you had on a couple of years. Yeah, he's been off. I get a total 180 after I really thought about some of the arguments that he was making. Like UBI as a machinery could be the most pro anarchist thing you could do to a fiat. If it worked for the fact that it's right now, it's completely federal reserved and, you know, capitalist banking cartel controlled as a concept right now. Well, the centralized version of that that they're experimenting with is world coin, right? I mean, that's what that's. I don't know. I highly doubt anything that they're claiming about that is even remotely realistic. And I'd point out that Monero does have almost a UBI because it's the closest thing to one processor, one vote. It's the closest thing to a deflation of the currency hedge. It incentivizes money velocity and it incentivizes people rotating in and out of capital, right? And that's why I'm saying a tail emission is super close to the general principles of a UBI. And in fact, if you were to go a step further with these same concepts, like what if you had like a like a Thor chain style, you know, the side chain mining that people are doing with Monero, you could turn that into something more UBI like on top of the fact that the miners in the main mining are being rewarded, right? And I don't pretend to have it all figured out. I'm just saying it is not a strictly communist ideology, not even close. The problem is is the only way we're hearing about it. And the only way that people have ever thought about the concept of a UBI is always this top down, commie control, you know, join our Fed coin. Like, let's make sure that a bunch of bureaucrats get to turn your wallets on and off and all that. But if you really look at it from just a technical point of view, and you and you and you try to look at it from an anarchy technology point of view, it could make a tremendous amount of sense. And we're already using a lot of it now, right? It with the tail emission. But I'll quit ranting about it. I'm just saying that like Monero people should not just shut their brain off when they see a bunch of socialists advocating for these things. We can look at the technology itself and think about how it could be deployed for the purposes of decentralization. And it could be one of the best tools ever if you think of it like that. Right. But this implementation implemented by the state, when you see BDC, push it forward and then for purposes of controlling how people use their money on top of the line on the state for receiving the money is definitely I'll see how that is step in the right direction. But I see we're saying if done in some theoretical fashion using cryptocurrency, then there could be some advantage. See, my thought would just be to take your UBI and buy like immediately take your UBI as soon as it's deposited and buy gold or silver or Monero. That's what I would do with it. And I think a lot of people would because it's less inflationary than gold and silver and Monero are less inflationary than the crypto than the fiat that you're coming from. And from a Monero marketing standpoint, there are a lot of allies to be had here, right? There are a lot of people that their heart is in the right place when it comes to UBI and they want to see because the truth is like it would be more than just a baby step away from fiat Fed notes being printed into existence and being given directly to bankers at 0% interest and then just like pillaging the rest of us, right? It's an unbelievably effective way to not only flipping on its head, but I don't know if you guys remember during the Ron Paul revolution where Ron Paul would often say like, I'm reframing it, but like he would say basically, I hate social security and it's a horrible evil. But social security is at the point where you can't just shut it off and unplug the people who have grown as dependent as they are on it because you would create a humanitarian crisis in an effort to stop stealing, right? So what you have to do is you have to do like a three phase system of like everybody needs to recognize that they're not going to get it if they don't have it, right? But people who are currently dependent on it need to be weaned off and you see what I'm saying? It's it would be a step in the right direction where you could like still have some of these like banking infrastructure things that exist and basically defang them by saying, okay, we're cutting off your access to 0% loans from printed fiat fed notes, right? But the system can can continue to exist. However, you know, this UBI that's like a smart contract that piggybacks off of Monero mining or whatever is going to be distributed out into people who, you know, by the very nature of having a wallet like pegged to this distributed server or whatever. I mean, there's a million ways you can do it. These people are going to get the new money and you're going to have to compete for that new money without your interest rate, your interest rate advantage, right? And so it's a way to wean off of the central banking system as well. Like it plays into a lot of things. And then you could even wean off the population from UBI as their primary source of income as well. Once you've like stabilized the economy. Hmm. Good thoughts. Good thoughts. Aina man is saying this isn't being implemented, fake news. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what the actual likelihood of this happening Canada is, but seem like it was like actually moving up the moving through the political system. All right. Moving on and listening to anybody else is anything saying that body? I don't know if you're if you're live right now. We have you up on stage. I don't know if you walked away. Hey, yeah, I'm here. I've been listening all time. What do you think? Yeah, any any take on this? UBI is constant. Yeah, I mean, I'm not I'm not sure I can I can totally agree with Alaska here, but it is a perspective I haven't thought of. So I'll need to consider it. I'm kind of like if the state wants to do something that's going to ultimately undermine them. Well, you know, I mean, I guess that makes some sense. It seems weird. Like they talk about UBI, but can they actually implement it? I'm not I'm not confident that they can without causing even worse problems for themselves. I don't like I have anything else. Anything to add to that really? Yeah, yeah. Let's keep it moving. Okay. Fun fun topic to consider though. Who knows? We might be closer than we think. Canada, Canada, the fucking crazy thing in Canada. Control. So I don't know. I think it's in the realm of possibilities. 2020 in 2024. Probably not, but we'll see now. Tales. So tales is actually accepting modern nations. If you want to donate to tales, you can now in Monera as well. And then dog, you wrote beautiful to see Monera being adopted for its intended purpose untraceable digital cash by respect to freedom tech open source projects to find their development. Booze the daily Monera transaction count. Don't eat something. But Monero grow the ecosystem. Yeah, it's nice to see. So that is very good to see. Here is how much have like what percentage of donations they get by a Monero versus other other things. I think we can probably ask them. Yeah. What did the JD wait? Wait, go back for that. That guy is such a such a asshole JW other man. It's not truly that this is a nice little person for hunting. You can always rely on Max. Yeah. Yeah. I had him on the show years ago. Oh, really? Yeah. Extreme C Max. He thinks Benaro is the scam. He's always my arrows. The scam. The coins are bigger scam. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Moving on. Um, did he win read those five rules? Yeah. I'm getting on Monero. He's like, it's not untraceable. And he's got the five laws of Monero. It's like, this is what you must do to use Monero or to use Bitcoin without getting scammed or hacked or traced or but it's like most people would never understand. And I think because it is through some means, you know, sort of traceable, but it has a huge amount of plausible deniability and it's very, very hard to trace. But it could be if people make mistakes in their high profile target. When surface Jampus comes out and, you know, we've got the full membership proofs that'll make Monero like insanely high and an enemity set. Agreed. Agreed. But you know, we just confidential transactions and stealth addresses. Nobody's compared to Bitcoin. It's traceable. Yeah. Yeah. You're just being too fair. But so this is interesting. 10 hours of Bitcoin. Well, that's a lot of material. What is this? The latest. Okay. It's a website that he has on his description. Okay. But I guess like it goes to the economy and the actual workings, but in Monero, if you want to understand how it just works, it takes you a single sentence. You don't have to do anything like not even one hour, like 10 seconds is private. You can just use it, send it. Oh, in this private, I don't need anything. Yes. Okay. That's enough. Is this our new segment grilling, Monero, our Bitcoin Maxis? Yeah. Exactly. We don't take some extra. I'll take some extra barbecue sauce with that. So this is cool. Can you translate? Yeah, translate. Yes. Hello. you know, in for most of the squeal Bitcoin, I met him when we went to Argentina. He's actually My name is just an analyst, who gave me this cell phone and taught me how to use Monero. We want you to help us give a cell phone to my sister, but he's so she can use Monero 1651 01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:28,000 as well. This is happening in Argentina, in the guy who made sure that I didn't leave Argentina without visiting Formosa. I was kind of on the on the fence about it because it was like a two hour plane ride from Buenos Aires. He's like, no, you got to go, bro. I just came back from there. He's a BT. He's a Bitcoin guy. He's like a Bitcoin privacy guy, big samurai guy, but he's also a minute, you know, a Monero guy. So he ran over to Monero town when he saw what was happening because he's in the area. He actually essentially moved there, right? So he's a cool dude. He's like, he sees Monero organically being adopted. So he went and moved to Monero town. And so he's trying to grow adoption there as well, helping out with Alessandro. We've all seen Alessandro kind of on the show here. He's the one that's doing the football thing over there, the soccer thing. He's growing the backstage for a second, but I guess he left already. Oh, he doesn't help, but how are they going to give a girl an iPhone? I mean, have they never heard of lineage or Calyx or graphene or? I mean, come on, you got to teach him right. You know, you got to speak. It's probably gold compared to whatever everything before. So my point is, you know, I you never know for sure what like who's doing legit things who's not this guy. I mean, I'm fairly certain everything he does is his legitimate. So cool to see and people want to participate in this. I think he should do like a kuno for something like this. So people can see how much have been raised rather than just throwing it in their dress out there. So they're actually a goal. It's funny because he always made fun of me because I kept bringing up kuno. He's like, we kind of had a joke going back and forth about that. But a squeal of Bitcoin man start using kuno. Amazing. For these things. Now, moving on, this is cost Nigeria. So the title says Nigeria's crypto ban hindered in IRA adoption, despite high global ranking, Nigerian tech and innovation legal expert, you know, Albert and said, you know, your adoption will only happen when the government gains the trust of Nigerians. The Naira thinks a more trusted status. And then Nigerians are going to be trusting. It's right around the corner. I mean, right now they've been ready to trust their government real soon. It's coming into 2020 for. We had we had somebody on the narrow talk that was from Nigeria and is out there actually teaching people about narrow. Yeah. And one of the points he was making is that, you know, cash is not going away in Nigeria any time soon. So like this idea that like cash is being eliminated around the world and trying to push people into CBDC. He doesn't see there being the political will to get rid of actual traditional cash there because all the politicians use it in corrupt ways like essentially the cash is used to pay people to go vote like can we just call it the Jake argument because I've been making that argument. I mean, the bad guys have to launder their money to people. Come on. Yeah. But essentially they implemented a ban in 2021 then they implemented the in era. It wasn't really being used until Tuesday. On May 2023 report by the International Monetary Fund indicated approximately 14,000 in area in area weekly transactions, which is representing only 1.5% of the total wallets. This applies that 98.5% of wallets gone used weekly, indicating there's a point in the low adoption. Then they did let us just point out that there is a very high likelihood that does 1.5% of the total wallets are the same user using multiple wallets like there is a very, very high chance that those numbers are actually like stacked in favor of the government on this one is probably more like 0.25. Regardless, that's still a very disappointing number. It's interesting to keep your eye on. I do think this number will start to take up as the government slowly boils the frogs and figures out ways to push people into the CVDC. For sure. Some countries may just incentivize some countries, mages for the population to use it. We're going to have to see Africa's crypto. These are leaders, highlights of the three initiatives. We have South Africa, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Kenya, and Ghana. They're the top five countries adopting Bitcoin with the most demand for digital currency and the most active local cryptocurrency communities. South Africa has made significant progress in cryptocurrency regulations second only to Central Africa's Republic. South Africa's regulatory initiatives include tax and cryptocurrencies since 2018 and recognizing them as digital assets. South Africa is onto cryptocurrency in Nigeria. We discussed Nigeria. Despite a national internet penetration rate, I don't know why they used that already. They could have used usage. 40% of the population essentially has access to internet and they also used to have ban on banks from dealing with cryptocurrency. They still are among the world's leaders in crypto adoption. It is second on the global crypto adoption index behind on the India. We talked about Nigeria extensively when we have Kenya, which now taxes crypto and monetize online content. The adoption of cryptocurrency has been in the interaction in Kenya as well. I think he's located in Kenya. He's going to be on the narrow talk. That's cool. I'm excited to that. That's awesome. Then we have Central Africa Republic. They also made significant progress in cryptocurrency regulation, making it one of the most active in crypto innovation in the spring of 2022. The car, which is Central Africa Republic, became the first African country to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender, which was interesting. This was short lived as a government began its crypto token project. Sango coin days after the Bitcoin law was enacted. Lastly, we have Ghana, which has quietly emerged as a noteworthy player in the cryptocurrency space with minimal government or central bank interference. Ghana has embraced cryptocurrencies with significant regulatory hurdles. We'll see what's going to happen in 2024 with Africa and crypto, not only. Anything else? Yes, a couple more. Our for Hey says, a trade ified traditional finance could completely destroy Bitcoin with spot ETFs. Here's why. In a new essay, the crypto veteran says that if ETFs managed by tradeified asset managers are too successful, they will completely destroy Bitcoin. Essentially, he talks about mining and the reward system and how the block rewards gradually dropping until they hit zero in the year 2140. Hey, notes that miners will only receive Bitcoin and come via fees if the network is used for transactions. However, if institutions are simply hoarding most of the coins in cold storage to back their ETFs, Hey says there won't be enough Bitcoin movement to generate fees and secure the blockchain, which a lot of people from the community thinks about. And that's why we like this is black rock, the world's largest trade by asset managers in the asset accumulation game. They vacuum up assets store them in a metaphorical vault issue, a tradable security and charge a management fee for their hard work. Yeah, I mean, this guy is he's he's he's on top of it, Arthur is. So he's been saying this forever. This is an old new article is old article on new December 24. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, shall see I don't know. I mean, Alaskan, what do you think of this theory with regards to the black rock Bitcoin ETF is a problematic for Bitcoin? For one, there is effectively a Bitcoin ETF micro strategies, which I think body has been saying that for what like three years now. So and the fact that the fact that there are people who are saying that this Bitcoin ETF is going to be like this game changer. In fact, it's not the only Bitcoin ETF. There's actually another one already too. That's even more like more of an ETF than micro strategy. And I personally, you know, because I have a perpetual tin foil hat underneath this wig or whatever. But personally, I think that this is just a pump and dump like verbal diarrhea that the powers that we are using knowing that everybody's going to eat it up. Right. And I think that actually this pump and dump plays into a lot of the other things that we see. Right. So I don't think that they're doing it based entirely around Monero, but I think that it plays into it the fact that, you know, for the longest time, Monero was being shorted naked shorted. And what you can do is you can pump the price against Bitcoin by pumping Bitcoin that you actually hold. And then you can even atomic swap or whatever into Monero and use it to cover your naked shorts. And then you're also simultaneously out of Bitcoin as you let the price collapse. Like that's just one small example of why they would, oh, there's an ETF coming and then use the regulators that they own and control like to, oh, we can't do this now and let the price collapse. But we're thinking about it in five days and then it pumps again and then, oh, we just, you know, regulation this and that and then it goes back down. Honestly, like people in our space, what we can do about this right now is we have to stop playing the game of price discovery being set by the people who have the loudest microphone. Right. So for example, I see people all the time looking up the local Monero price in aggregate, which is always more accurate. And by the way, it's usually low compared to the price up here in Alaska, right? Like, I mean, you would be smoking crack if you thought you could get Monero for less than $230 in Alaska, right? And nobody thinks that way up here or another thing is like the, you know, nobody actually believes that the gold spot price is what you get gold for on the street, right? And yet we allow these people to play these games because you can buy and sell it on your digital casino using your Robinhood app that has been shown over and over again to be under the thumb of their finances, right? We have to get away from this idea that the news is allowed to pump and dump by manipulating a bunch of AI generated algorithm bought by sell. It's all so fake, right? And when you see people like BlackRock, right, that all they do is they just like benefit off of people paying fees and riding out these price pump and dumps using their media aggregators. And then they use other people's money to control us, right? Like, oh, we're only going to give you money if you're ESG compliant and so on. That's not even their money. And they're using it to control you. They're using it to govern you. And part of the reason they can do that is because people like us keep listening to these price pump and dump things that come from bought generated news articles. And then a guy who uses who writes for the daily hodl is like citing them as sources, right? So real people are citing fake bullshit as a source to sound credible. It's so backward, right? When if you actually go out into the real world and you buy Monero or Bitcoin, you pay a totally different price. Its availability is a totally different reality, right? And then people actually use it, right? It's like, what are people going to do if you have this ETF that's just like holding Bitcoin? It doesn't go anywhere, right? It doesn't reflect the actual value of anything, right? But, but you know, you've got those Bitcoin maxis just like busting out the Jurgens so they can talk more about how the price number go up to the moon, bro, to the moon. And it's like, well, go use it right now if you want to actually like pump the price of some Bitcoin, go get somebody to take it for goods and services. Do you agree with Arthur's prediction that this will lead to, you know, just a few ETFs, whatever, holding the vast majority of Bitcoin and then they have no incentive to use it. And because of that, miners stop mining and the whole Bitcoin network comes to like a, I agree with everything. I don't necessarily see the connection to the minor part because of some other self-regulating things that go on between like the value of Bitcoin and mining. And so, but I do see, you know, on the interview that you had, which I did, you're saying coins just the coins won't be moving. So there won't be any transaction fees, miners. Well, I mean, that is true. But you also have the network, the network difficulty will drop until there's an incentive to mine again. So there's that, which, you know, is one thing. But the other thing is is even though it is a, it's not proof of stake, it's proof of work, right, as far as like whether or not something is going to be adopted or whatever. If you consolidate a lot of Bitcoin into a few ETFs, that just the act of moving the keys from one ETF to another, like they could fire up their, their miners ahead of time and then like make the move or make the switch. There's all kinds of ways that you can mitigate that. But the consolidation part is the part that should be freaking people out in the Bitcoin space because on the one hand, you want on ramps and you want liquidity. But on the other hand, if you consolidate all of these, all of the Bitcoin and all of the keys into a tiny handful of ETFs, what happens to, what do they call it, the determination, dust amount or what there's a word for it. But basically, like, if your E note is a certain size, it basically disappears, right? So like, that's the real hazard here, right, is the the the pumpers are so delusional if they think this is good for their currency. It's like, and then on top of that, like what happens to lightning adoption and all of this, like, the consolidation part is horrifying from a technological perspective is what I'm getting at. And I mean, this rent can take like 200 hours if I get going. Just the idea that the people who can print money into existence can accumulate Bitcoin at any price and then control the value of mining operations by the mere act of moving from one ETF to another. Okay, like, at what point have you totally taken control of the mining algorithm? If you can control the price of the mining by just moving the the Sats that you have around at targeted points, like you could crash the value of all of the mining rigs by just hoarding it and using only layer two, right? And then buy up all of the mining rigs for pennies on the dollar, you could even buy them in your, your exploding Bitcoin price, right? And then take all of those miners, turn them on and move your Bitcoin and basically transaction fee back all of your money. And there's, I mean, there's so many ways that this whole thing can be manipulated with the ETF scam thing. And of course, like all of these tech bros have no idea how the fiat world has literally taken over their precious coin, because they're just looking number go up, man, number go up. And they're like, eking their way towards the termination line, like the dust line or whatever, I forget what it's called, but like they're slow creeping their way into all of their notes, having zero value, because the price to transact their minuscule sap count that's distributed into 15 different UTXOs. And like it's literally worthless now. So the, I think the more general, like so Arthur Hayes is pointing at a more general reality, without really saying it overtly. And that is small blocks encourage the centralization of supply, because why would you, right? Why would you want to try and use it on chain when it costs so much? So it's like, it's not just the ETFs. It's the exchanges. It's the entire cabal. Bitcoin supply is already heavily centralized anyways. But I mean, I think the small blocks, keeping blocks small and having no other realistic way of scaling, because lightning is not realistic at the moment, not without larger blocks. And CTV is still a twinkle in a few people's eye at the moment. I'm not sure it'll actually come to fruition. But yeah, I mean, the more general point is that small blocks encourage exactly this behavior. I'm not convinced that necessarily what Arthur's saying here will become the fate of Bitcoin. It really depends like if the cabal is getting their hands onto Bitcoin and they really intend to put it at the forefront, that sounds a lot to me like a fake libertarian or marginal libertarian, presidential candidate that gives a little bit of lip service to some freedom stuff, but doesn't actually do anything. And I feel like that's what they want to turn Bitcoin into. It's like, oh, yeah, this is the freedom money. This is what people that care about liberty use. And then meanwhile, they've integrated it into the entire economic system. And they keep the price high, right? Because you need, it's like the stock market. You need to keep that price high. You need to keep the focus there. That's the thing that says how good the economy is. So they can use Bitcoin as like this, this sort of, I don't know, Trojan horse against actually doing real freedom money and actually having a way of transacting outside the system. So I would tend to think that they would, I mean, hypothetically, but it's just one way, one vector looking at it. But I don't think that necessarily they would need to crash the price. I don't think that they would have any interest in necessarily crashing Bitcoin as long as they can keep people in that ETF and they can keep people on custodial scaling solutions and or liquid, especially since a lot of the exchanges are now starting to come under the thumb of the government of the SEC, of DOJ, all of those exchanges that permit your withdrawal from the liquid side chain, like those, there's like, I think 12 of them. And so we're talking Bitfinex. I'm pretty sure Binance is one of them. I can't remember Kraken is on there if it's like their parent company, pay word LTV. But anyways, so yeah, I'm not convinced that Arthur Hayes is really nailing the game theory of what's going to happen to Bitcoin mining, but I think he is kind of making a more general point that, yeah, we can expect centralized solutions to continue for as long as Bitcoin is unable to scale. We could call it Astro Turf Bitcoin is now Astro. And then FT. All right. We have three more and then that's it for the new sections. Yeah, everybody's 2024 predictions. Once again, anybody that wants to jump up, please do, please do, Tux, if you can put the link in there again, it's tux still around the tux abandoned us. No, he's still here. Okay. Yeah. Anybody that wants to jump up, MQ, I see you asking some good questions, sounds like you're new to Monero, jump up on stage. We'll put the link there. You're asking about KYC Bitcoin. Feel free to jump up. Go ahead, Tony. This was crypto for the homeless. If I was amazing, check it out. Basically, if you go to crypto for homeless for for the homeless, you can donate to homeless people in Monero, which is really cool. And essentially donate and volunteers will buy and hand out food and provide the proof as well. And then, yeah, those opposed the pictures. So it's really cool. It's been a long, long time, right? This project. Yeah. Five years. That's cool. Yeah. So that's a cool project. Monero Khan, make sure that you go and contribute to the crowdfunding campaign. Okay. Still raising money. And the last thing, which is a huge job. It's not the entire thoracian community. It's not a little strong, but it's true. The fact is, Monero is not on thoracian. It's a quote unquote DEX. Why don't they have Monero? It's the one coin that makes the most sense to cater to. It's like why we need a DEX in the first place. I thought it was kind of interesting to see you poke the hornets nest a little harder than you usually do, Doug. That was, you know, you're usually a little more soft spoken than, you know, I was just speaking from the heart. I don't know. Right. I mean, you guys were there. We witnessed it. We saw them. We saw them balk at adding Monero. They debated it. It was going to happen. The tech, the fact that they couldn't overcome the technical hurdles, they certainly can overcome it. It wasn't. And that wasn't what was being discussed at the time. It wasn't just that. It was there was a there were people in the community voices in the thoracian community that their cost benefit analysis was that it was not worth trying to take the risk of adding Monero because it's, you know, it may make thoracian a target, whatnot. They'd rather focus on number go up. They'd rather focus on number go up straight up. And while I think they realized that Monero probably want one of the most used, they didn't at the end of the day. They didn't want to put themselves in the bullseye of the state and regulators. Right. Am I wrong about that? That's how I remember going down. I don't know. Alaska, Alaska, were you were you paying attention to those developments? I remember. I'm gonna keep from blowing my top on this one because, oh man, this one get me heated. But just the two faced like it's one thing if thoracian is like, no, we're gonna try to be more like middle of the road. We just don't want to. But just the way that they totally like two things for their own relevance, right? Like just to stay like cool with the people that they totally fucking burned like, something like six months ago. Do they think that we got like goldfish memory going on? It's like, no, no, we totally remember. Do not like, I would have never gotten mad if they would have just been straight up about like what they said six months ago. And now like, oh yeah, I mean, it's super great. And thoracian is gonna do that one. It's bullshit. We remember like, I'll shut up now. I'm sure I remember. And we worked up. Yeah, we remember. We were trying to get the we had them involved in the first menerotopia conference. And at that time, it was like things it really felt like it was gonna happen and we had Haven that was present there because the idea was that the Haven devs were involved in this. And if they can figure out how to add Haven, they can figure out how to add Monero or vice versa. But yeah, never happened. Never happened. I don't know. It's worse than that. The Haven dev guy, because it's pretty much one guy, right, put a ton of work, like a ton of work into making it possible. Like he did all the heavy lifting and everything. In fact, it was part of the conference. Like, I don't know if you remember during the conference when the Haveino guy, right? The Haveino guy put like a ton of work into trying to be super integratable and all of this other stuff. Now, there's literally only one thing that Thor chain can do to redeem to shut the hell up and integrate Monero and don't say a good word. You know, it's like, that is literally the only way that they're going to redeem themselves after a total like, I mean, the hypocrisy was just mind blowing, you know, what they just said there. But the thing is, is like, sorry, bro, your number go up strategy just left you in the dust. Sarai, Haveino, all of these other things are going to leave you in the dust, make you completely irrelevant. Because either people are going to go the centralized exchanges route and use their Astro Turif coin, or they're going to go the real economy route and you're going to be irrelevant. Like, that's just all there is to it. Like, nobody cares anymore. Integrate Monero or go away. If I remember correctly, they kept getting compromised. Like, I don't think they've had any significant compromises in the last year, but I haven't really been paying attention to them. But I remember like, Thor chain kept having like these weird bugs that compromises. Yeah, they did. They did. Yeah. And that's what gone that fire just said about like, what's the point of censorship resistance if they just self censor? It's like, they made them like the minute that they started like bending the knee. It's like, Oh, well, you just devalued yourself 100% by bending the knee. What surprised me about their their decision to go that direction is I thought Eric Voorhese was a big part of the project, at least at the impetus. So I'm just surprised because he, you know, he's always kind of walk the walk, not just talk to talk. I feel like in terms of, although I guess Monero was, was delisted from that instant exchange that he used to run. I don't know. I'm just surprised that with him as part of the project, he wasn't, he didn't really instill more of us, though, just like a cypherpunk ethos there. But hey, number go up. Yeah. Hey, can I, can I bust in? Yeah. Hey, guys, drunk down me here. One time. One thing that came up that seems like it was kind of a big story that no one has mentioned yet, I don't think is the science magazine released a study they did of El Salvadorians rejecting Bitcoin over privacy concerns. Oh, adoption is just tanked. I tweeted it. You can find it in my thread, but I can't switch screens or I'll drop the call here. So if anyone wants to look at that article, they've got measurements of who adopted it, who tried it, who continued try, and it's just tanking. So real, there's, I can see that. I'm not surprised by that, but what surprises me is you're saying the reasoning is because of privacy. I'm actually kind of surprised by that. I was too, but you know, they released a study. So wow, science magazine, I don't think they have a dog in the fight necessarily. But yeah, they prefer, I think that's the market saying, we prefer, they're using cash. That's their preference. And I think that's the market saying, we prefer fungibility and privacy. So, you know, one thing I'd point out is in El Salvador, people who have means and money are much more concerned about their privacy, because they don't want other people to know they have money. Like for security reasons and safety reasons, like you have to be very careful. If people know that you have access to a large amount of funds, it puts your life at risk and the life of your family at risk. So they're ahead of the curve on that one. That's that is for sure the truth. Drunk down, DM me that if you don't mind, when you get a chance, maybe in the private chat. Yeah, it's one of my more recent tweets. How's it go, man? Good. Good. Oh, wait, sorry. Happy New Year, everyone. Yeah, happy New Year. Tony, did we finish the news? Actually, we just got one more from Tux and this one is wrong. Actually, that's the wrong one. Here's the right one. That was a different one. I mean, you can do that one up if you want us unrelated. There you go. I just sent the right one. Okay. It's a drunk down these tweet, uh, with a quote, quote retweet for the science magazine. Do you know, Tux, I realized we didn't play the special gas segment because we didn't have a special gas. We should probably roll that so we could get cake up there. That's right. We got to get cake up there. That's what I said at the beginning. Nobody reads it. Well, Sunita, she mentioned the sponsors, but we'll make a drunk. I'll make your special yesterday's. They generally don't read the the chats. The manera Tophia gas segment is sponsored by Cake Wall Store, Zen, received an exchange of Nara and Bitcoin safely on iOS and Android too. Cake Wall it is open source and you always control your own keys. Got got to do that at a respect for for Cake Wall it. They've done so much to help this show. Um, so yeah, drunk dial me your, your, your official special guest. It was great here. You said need his voice today, by the way. Dude. So what is your 2024 prediction for manera? If you don't mind, uh, price wise and just adoption wise. What are your thoughts? What's 2024 going to look like for manera? To be honest with the elections, I don't, I feel like my crystal ball is just totally broken. Next year is going to be so fucking crazy. I'm just, I'm actually pulling money out of 401k's and just trying to get the hell out of anything that can be seasoned, collapse. Um, there's a, there's a guy who just, um, there's a guy ever want you to check out. He, uh, released a video on YouTube and he has a series of like a downloadable book, but that just watch the YouTube video. He, he talks about, uh, how basically every financial asset is now has, um, people who will, who are in line before all other creditors and how they can use your, your financial instruments as collateral. Uh, it's called, um, the great, uh, taking, I think. Um, so it's kind of a play on the great reset. It's called the great taking. Uh, I forget the guy's name, but I was listening to that and I think the stuff just clicked together as like, holy shit. Yeah. It's kind of basically, a lot of how the 2008, uh, great financial crisis went down a lane on steroids. So it's all very vulnerable. I don't know. I'm just, I just want to have, you're saying the importance of uncomfortable assets is, is going to rise. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, basically just want to be in Monera on goldbacks as far as any liquid cash. I don't want to have anything in the stock market personally. That's just because I don't know it. If, if you feel comfortable in that environment, go for it. But I, I don't for fun. Would you, would you like to make a prediction on, on Monera's price? 2024? I think we're going to break all time high as that's about as far as I could guess. All right. Oh, you know, I had a fun idea we can do. I was thinking, uh, talks maybe, tell me if you think we could pull this off right now. I think it's a good idea. If we posted a Monera address and people can send transactions guessing what they think the, the high will be for Monera on 2024 with like, uh, you know, so they'll send like point zero, zero, and then whatever they think the number will be for Monera for Monera's high price. And then we'll, uh, we'll award the winner next year. It would have to be based on, I guess, the transaction ID. That could be fun. What do you think? I think, I think you might have should have done considered that a week ago. Yeah. You get prepared. We do. Can we just post a while? Right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how, how can it work? So it'd be like point zero, zero, and then whatever your, whatever your number is, your guess. So like if your, your guess is $200, you'd be like, uh, 0.00200. Yeah. You'd be points. Or just just two. Yeah. 0.002. If you want to guess 256 would be, uh, yeah, I guess, the app said a thousand, right? Unless you want to, unless you want to pay the extra to go 0.01, start to go into the thousands. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, if that makes that, this could be fun. I'm, I'm for it. Yeah. Tuxie, get it up. So, so drunk down me. What, what was your number? What were you saying? Um, I think I would maybe go with 320. All right. So yeah, you would, you would do 0.00320. That's, that's, uh, that's a good guess. Good guess. Body. What, what, what are these years, man? I guess I'll say 321 then just to be. Price is right. I do it. Wait, I think it's going to be 8.75% the price of gold. No matter what, what the dollar is worth, it's going to hold its value against gold. Um, and, and I think that's going to start basically once the crypto exchanges die. Um, I think that Monero's price is going to be pegged to gold. Um, but I think it's going to have kind of that volatility aspect that silver has where gold will lead and Monero will follow. And I think that Monero will probably spike above gold and then kind of like go back down to its relative price and gold. Um, and I think that's going to start probably quarter four of next year. It will be like an established pattern that people will be able to bet on. Hmm. Oh, I do have interesting news about goldbacks after everyone makes their predictions. Okay. Okay. Did any of you see that gold ATM? No. No. That was the news. Was that it? Are you going back? Yeah. Yeah. That was it. Tell us. Tell us, regarding. Yeah. Well, what's the info? I was telling you during the interview that we did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is the other. No, I don't have to do it. I'm like super stuff. Can we use the Twitter? There's a Twitter account called, I think at gold ATM or ATM gold. I think it's at gold ATM, but they have a legit stand up. Uh, ATM that dispenses goldbacks. I've actually made inquiries into them about how to buy one seems like they're more interested in leasing or, uh, yeah, leasing to merchants. Um, but I want to do basically trail behind farmers markets and just have a gold ATM follow these crowds at farmers markets because that's the exact demographic that's into all that alternative stuff. Like they're worried about pesticides and organic food and supporting local, supporting local and all that. If you hooked up one of these things on a trailer and just had a trail along farmers markets and you could hack it so that it also sells Monero and exchanges goldbacks for Monero. Um, I think it would be a really great business model. Is there any thought that they're, are they adding crypto to it or is it right now? It's just cash for gold ducks? I think it's just cash, but I've been reaching out to them trying to buy one and, uh, I haven't gotten all that salespeople. Like from that point, the Monero part is pretty easy. Yeah. Now what are the, yeah. So I guess, are they, is I know KYC? I mean, how are they, how are they doing this? As far as I know, you can just use a debit card or put cash in and get, uh, goldbacks back. But the, the interesting. Yeah, if they were ever K, K, YC concerns or wire transmitter, whatever, if you put Monero on this thing, you could make it so that you could only buy a Monero or exchange Monero for goldbacks and then you totally eliminate the USD problem. And I think it would probably, I guess the machine, I guess it'll be a wire transmitter since it's also like you could still use dollars on it. But this is a huge step. If someone can figure out what components they're using on the inside, we could also have Monero goldback ATMs, which I think there's value in that. But I think trailing farmers markets with these things, uh, that's the exact demographic who would be really fascinated with them and use them in a little local circular economy, local farmers. So everyone check that, check that out. Just saying, no, we literally do that seven months out of without the ATM, but there's, there's an actual booth at the farmers market exchange, goldbacks, Monero and food and USD. And the problem has always been the shortage of Monero. Like you always run on a Monero. Like, a double tell, I went down to, uh, to Monero, Topia and Mexico, hoping to come back with like a lot of Monero. And I brought all kinds of cash and all kinds of silver and gold and everything, trying to swap it for Monero. And I was even offering a really good price. Um, I still couldn't come back with nearly enough Monero because there's just not enough up here. People will not use exchanges up here. They will not put their information on the internet. They're just, you could, they wouldn't do it at gunpoint. That's awesome. So yeah, we'll definitely keep our eye on that. That's cool. Are the goldbacks people associated with this? It's like another company that, uh, just did this on the route. I think it's a company that did it on its own. I don't see a whole lot of crossover between other accounts. Um, I didn't see official announcements from goldback themselves. I might have just missed it though. I think it's just, they're just doing it on their home. Oh, always bringing good info drunk, dalme. So wait, uh, drunk, what do you, what do you think the low could be? So you're, your prediction for highs like 320. What do you think the low could be, especially we're seeing this Binance delisting. If we think things might go, go south for a little bit. I don't know. Maybe you don't. Maybe you do. But what's your, your low prediction for 2024? Um, if we win as low as 140, I don't think it would be sustained for very long at all. I think we're going to start seeing a real stable price. It's going to organically just go up. And once it goes past, it's old all time high. I think that might have a psychological effect of it kind of running away. All right. Maybe. I don't know. But I don't think we're going to be, I think all time lows are in our review. Mere body. What's your love? I probably goes low as 110. The standard deviation bands currently sit at about 120. Um, and if there was like some big washout or demand destroying event, you know, a 2020 kind of crash, the manera would, would take a temporary dip with everything else. But, um, I, I don't imagine that would last very long, especially if you exchanges have largely delisted. So, um, and looking at the chart more here, I'm actually, I'm actually really surprised, um, drunk down me. Um, 320 is like spot on where I would probably have put my guess. Maybe I would say like 290 somewhere between like 290 and, um, maybe like 350 would, would have been my guess. So 320 is like, I was joking about 321, but, uh, I think I'm going to keep that one. Or maybe I should go 329. I don't know. I had this thing. I had 306, but then you have to adjust it for inflation. So I was like thinking 317. So like we're all like red on the nuts. Like what are you saying for potential low, the last, it'll be one XMR. Um, well, I mean, low when, like, the right answer. Very low in June 24, like the low, the low carry here. So probably gotten more than 125. All right, Doug, do we want to do the game? We should do it. Yeah. So does it make sense? I guess if we, so how are we going to figure out the winner or like, so all we need is transaction, transaction, I'd be right. We'll be able to see. And then they can. Yes. Yep. Yep. Okay. Yeah. If you could put up the QR code. I've got the, uh, the live, the live mode turned on. So it'll show stuff as they come in. Oh, sweet. That's awesome. Nice. Oh, one more thing that I'm kind of excited about us thinking about today is, uh, if Monera Topi is dead in Argentina, it's going to be in Buenos Aires, right? Not in Formosa. Yes. Okay. If enough people make a special effort to go up to Formosa and they spent money there, you know, they booked a hotel with Monera and just did everything they possibly could and just had a good time and met everyone. All that extra Monera going into that town will add liquidity. So it'll actually be more useful. Because I think I would, I know they have gambling and that's probably got them a little flush with Monera, but it seems like if they had more, it would help their little parallel economy grow and flourish. So it was just kind of some of the cross my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, the practicat will certainly, uh, try to offer that as an option, right? Like we want the finals to be when Monera Topia is taking place. So maybe like right before or right after and if people want to as an excursion head to Iberete to watch the finals. Um, but it's, you know, it's, it's a real trip. It's, it's literally in the middle of nowhere. It's, it's out there in the country. Like I think it was like the, like the first guy from, from the US to be an even at the, uh, maybe, maybe that. So, so in terms of practicalities, but it'd be amazing if people go and it'll be a beautiful thing and it'll get treated, they'll get treated very well and it'll be beautiful and people will have an amazing time. The other point to make those two is the, my hope is the games themselves are going to bring more Monera into the ecosystem over there. Right. So the winning, the three top teams are going to win a Monera prize and those are going to be all teams from the local area. So they're going to, they're going to come home with, with Monera. Um, and then I'm thinking of figuring out, trying to figure out other ways that as people watch from home, they'll be able to interact with Monera and perhaps, uh, bring Monera into into the local economy there. But maybe, uh, maybe, maybe the, maybe the, maybe the, maybe the Monera Reastas can all charter a private jet through tap jets and, uh, fly up there and come back. Maybe a bus. You can do that too. Plus, it's like 12 hours, but it'd probably be pretty cheap. Well, be chartered jet for a big group of people. I don't think it necessarily costs a lot. I was going to bring it up after the show, but you do a party bus. Everybody goes to Buenos Aires on a certain day. You make out a party bus. All the Monera people ride up on a party bus. You know, trying to get a bus where the, the, the teams can come down to Monera Topia, right? So like a bus from down to a bus with a bunch of Monera people and a bunch of, uh, no, well, that'd be the bus going back, but I'm saying we could bring people down to the conference, right? So that's a thought as well. So it's party bus. Love it. I'll throw it out for the party bus. Not for the bus, but the stuff that we put on the bus to make it the party, you know, I find I'll put in for the bus too. All right. I'm sending my prediction. Okay. So how does this game work? We're submitting the prediction in XMR as what? Your prediction of the Monera high for 2024. So if you think we're going to place so 0.00 then your number, right? So you think it's going to hit 370 bucks? So be well, I think we need to spice this up a little bit because if you're betting that the price is high and it does go high, you get more. If you're betting that the price is low, then, you know, your, your positioning, I think it should be like the, the first place after the decimal is like the hundred. Nobody's fucking gambling. I'm not saying we're gambling. I'm just saying there's a big pool of Monera and then the person who gets closest gets all of the Monera. Well, it's already what we're going to do, right? The person who gets the closest is just going to get all the, but it's going to be a much smaller amount. You want to predict that Monera is going to hit $3,000 and you'd be 0.03, right? You have to pay more to predict higher. Yeah, but I was wondering that the thousands place should be like the one XMR level. Let's do it. Let's go bigger, go home. People sent to ready? Has anybody sent? All right, I'm going to send one. Not going big. I'm sinking still. I love my normy phone. So I have to sync for like three weeks. It's not my Monera phone. All right, I sent one. Hey, Doug, I did have a, I did have an idea for a show guest. I don't know if you've done the guest like this before, but the prediction markets, the centralized betting market essentially, I think as the Monera community needs to talk about how to not publicize the idea of assassination markets, putting prices on people like WF people's heads because that'd be really bad if we, if that got popular and we should have a discussion of how we should, we can prevent anyone from discussing that idea. Oh, yeah, we have to go to appreciate and deal about how it works. If you're irresponsible for us to not put that information out there as a warning. Yeah, I was impressed the information essentially. Like no one should be working on a decentralized betting platform from Monera right now. That'd be bad. What, what are the popular betting platforms that exist for Monera right now? I know we had, we had somebody on back in the day. I don't know if it whatever happened if it went anywhere. I'm curious to see with Copa Monera if some side betting thing pops up for people to gamble on the local games. So I'm actually not going to predict the high or low price. I generally prefer to use the averages and I'm just going to say, I'm just going to cope for inflation and say that the average Monera price at the end of 2024 is going to be $174 US and the low is going to be 153 average. Okay. 150 150 average low and 174 average for the actual average because what I've seen from the charts is that Monera likes to hold within 12% of the of the like long term 200 average. It seems to enjoy holding about 12%. So therefore, 12% above 10% to 12% above what we're at now would put it roughly 174 175 because we're at 158 average and then 10% down from 12% down from 174 is like 153. Okay. There's some reason that merchant page wasn't doing showing up the transactions. So here they are. We got a page. What was that that you're using? It was a merchant page, a merchant mode page and able to sales track. Oh, there they are. It just took a while. Okay. So yeah, that views better. All right. So we go go back to that view. Is the final verdict that like other than in the case of shortwave, are we betting on the high for the year? Are we betting on the closing? We're betting on the high for 2024. Yeah. Okay. It's the winner closest person. Right now, somebody guessed 1000 somebody guessed 750 bucks. Somebody gets 625. That was me. I guess 625. Somebody guessed 238. Yeah. Put the QR code back up. People at home play in the game. You know, it only costs I sent 625 and then the cost cost me a dollar. So this is fun. This is fun. Shortwave. Send your guess in. I know I know you're you want to do average, but for this, try to get the high. All right. Hold up. Tony. Tony, what's your guess? So I'm not as versed as predicting prices as body, but I did like what he said. So I believe that probably the lowest is going to be maybe like 120. And then I don't think it's going to go too white, like too high next year. So between 280 and I was going to say 300. So that's going to be my number. But it's interesting because next year is going to be Bitcoin's halving, because it's going to be 2024. So longer how does that affect everything? Got a 420. Very nice. That's a good point to having. Oh, you know what? A tux copy and paste the address and post it in the comments. So people will send that way. So if you can't access the Sciorco for whatever reason or just listening. So this is the address. If you send Monero to that address with the guess of what you think Monero's high price will be for the year, and you get the closest you will win everything in the pot. Guess by putting 0.00 and whatever the number is, you think, unless of course you're going to the thousands, right? So if you think Monero's going to get a thousand dollars, you put 0.01. You think it's going to hit 250 bucks, 0.00, 250 and send to that address. Would have someone has a lot of money and then they're going to put the actual price in Monero's say they think it's going to be free. They're going to put 321 arrows. Yeah, you make the fun. The pot will be larger. You probably won't win though. Yeah, any other general predictions for 2024 with regards to Monero? I mean, obviously we're going to see Binance D list, right? That seems like that's inevitable at this point. You guys didn't mention the OKX D listing on Friday. I haven't really been following that. So what happened with that? Tell us. They just basically said that I just saw an article yesterday that said OKX is going to delist thanks to regulatory pressure. So when you guys were talking about the Binance D listing, I'm like, I haven't heard anything about that, but I heard about OKX. So I was confused there for a little bit. Oh, yeah, they both did all privacy coins, didn't they? Just straight up? Yeah, that happened. I sent in my prediction. All right. See people guessing 385. Wow. Okay, we got a lot coming in here. 520. All right, this is sick. This is awesome. 385 was me. Everybody's guessing pretty high. That's all right. Yeah, we're bullish. Are we betting that the dollar is going to be dirt? Or that too, yeah. Wow. Thank you for this. Monero guys. I'll see you all later. My transaction is still my guess is my guess is 250. 250? Okay. Somebody. Oh, 3000. 330. Wow. Jesus. Oh my God. I feel so. That would be hell of a 2024, right? If his guess is correct, then he's going to make a killing on this bet. That was kind of what I was saying about the Go Bigger Go Home because I want to do right. You were definitely the point. Which what did you do? You did 0.01. I'll ask you not, didn't you? No, I did 385. Okay. I wanted that higher, but I also wanted to be right. So I went with 380. But if I just had a similar talk to the betting pool and just guessed like everything, I guess that's not a bad price for it. You'd have to pay a higher price for it, but you know, you'd increase your chances to win. Yeah, technically there's no way of me pretending you're competing. That's the one above and one below. It's just like, find everyone that's not you and just have one above and one below, like the whole way down. And then somebody could do that to you and then you could do it to them and then they could you. And the next thing you know that you're just like, and then somebody ends up being right on the nuts and both of you get taken for a ride. Yeah, it's a pretty good foolproof system. I mean, right? Yeah, if you want to try to game it, you're just going to raise the pot. Go for it. Yeah, raise the pot. Actually, I'm thinking about a post that people that are most of my number. Yeah, I can post the view. You can. Yeah, that way we can all see. And then you're going to get this game where everyone like keeps trying to, so like, okay, someone posts 300 and then someone tries 301 and 299 and then Alaska comes along and he's like, 298 and 302. Yeah, the close time though, for sure. Like it's because otherwise you can game the system unfairly by betting and especially if the high was already like if the high just like if it exploded to like a thousand and then went back down, it's like, well, you already know what the right number is. Right. So, but I have another prediction from Monero. I think that Monero is going to grow in popularity in things like the freedom cell movement and the food freedom movement. In fact, I think that it's going to start as far as the United States goes. I think it's going to start in Maine, which is odd because I used to think it was going to be a New Hampshire thing, but I think it's actually going to start in Maine where you're going to see people starting to offer like serious discounts at farmers markets and stuff like that where they're going to try to get their their enclosed food systems denominated in Monero. And I think the only reason it's not going to be Alaska is because nobody wants to let go of their Monero. It's like way too hodl up here, but I think in places like that. And then another thing that I think you're going to see is you're going to have the same way that foreigners from like China are going to get their wealth out in Monero. I think you're going to see that happening in the United States. I think is California and New York get more aggressive in trying to claw back their tax revenue from like expats. I think that you're going to see people in New York, California, Washington, they're going to start to like basically hide their wealth in Monero. And then that's going to provide them a further incentive to buy and sell in Monero to keep that hidden. So you're going to see a spike in people using things like coin cards with Monero in order to hide their purchases from tax regimes in states that have that as a problem. But I think it's going to be hard to spot until the volume gets so high that serious white paper research is done into figuring out where the money went. So even though it'll happen in 2024, I think you won't find out about it until like 2026. But people in the Monero community will be wise to it ahead of time because we'll see our transaction volumes ballooning in the form of a bunch of small sales from places like coin cards or other ideas. Hopefully, XMR Bazaar will be popular enough where people will see we'll see that happen. And I also think there's going to be a lot of money. Elizabeth Warren will mention xmrbazaar.com by name. Will she mention Monero this year? What do you guys think? Or who do you think will be some of the bigger names that maybe mentioned Monero in 2024? I think these people are scripted to not say xmr. I think that they're literally being pushed not to name names of working cryptos. And I think that the evidence for that is pretty strong at this point that they literally like avoid it like the plague to actually say Monero or xmr. They're being told not to use. We've got two that are the exact same amount. I'm surprised. I'd be surprised to line the pot between them. Hey, Alaska. Not too far. That'd be amazing if the narrows high price is more 20 again. Wasn't that like the high price like a couple of years ago? It was 420 exactly. Hey, Alaska. Not up. Yeah. I'm listening. Go ahead. Oh, have you ever heard of a project called cell 411? C-E-L-L-4-1-1. It rings a bell, but I can't remember what it does. Yes. Captain kickass from FreeTalk Live. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So the other person. But yeah. Mr. Nobody. Yeah. Mr. Nobody is but yeah. Mr. Nobody's developing that. I'm in one of the Matrix channels. I've donated some money towards it, but you were talking about funding open source projects. It's not minute in narrow related specifically, but it is freedom cell related. It's basically an app where you can crowds call up your homies if you have a roadside accident like, oh, my car broke down on the side of the highway or start hit the emergency alert button and it'll start recording in case there's someone following you. So it's basically a way to call people in your neighborhood rather than cops. So it's any in places. I remember. Yeah. It's basically the cop watch app, but for emergencies. I remember. Yeah. Is there a way, can I reach out to you about potentially ways to fund that like you were saying on the previous show? Hmm. Nope. We lost your sound. I'm sorry about that. I'm kind of like an ignoramus when it comes to remembering my mute function. I'll post that. I'll post that. Time step when if equal. That's that's actually a good idea. Oh, drunk drunk. I don't think it should split the pot if they're within a certain deadline. I think if they have the same guess, they should just split the pot as long as they're like, you have to put your guess in by the end of January or something. Okay. Guess will be New Year's Eve, New York, New York time. Wait, also the private view key in the comments. The ball. The ball. The ball. The ball is the New York. Watch them come in yourself. Yeah. What'd you do? It's a private view key so people can watch the wallet themselves. Oh, cool. I think I think drunk dial me had a good point about pulling all of his assets. I think it was drunk dial me had a good point about pulling all of his assets out of the stock market and things that can be seized. Because I'm actually doing the exact same thing. I take like 20% of my paycheck every single month and after I pay all of my bills and everything. Like I have like 20% of my check left over and I automatically just put it into Monero. Just put it in Monero. Put it in Monero. Put it in Monero. And I don't care what the price is or anything else. I just need to get it out of the dollar and put it in Monero. 401k. Would that be called the dollar cost averaging? Yep. Because I want to get rid of the dollars as soon as possible. Like literally I get my monthly like my paycheck every month or whatever and then pay like immediately pay my bills and get rid of it. Like so I have it for like 24 hours maybe. Yeah. My only real world concern is like Nodo Project. So most people, well everybody that purchased the Nodo paid with Monero and we're just holding it in Monero. Not everybody. Not everybody. Yes. Okay. Almost everybody. I went through a lot of bullshit to not pay a Monero. I don't know if you remember but I was like look I got people that need this Monero. I got to use dollars bro. Yeah. I don't remember how we ended up doing that. I did a wire transfer. Yeah. You're crazy. We need to like ship a load of the narrow. I'm using wire transfer. See that's actually he's got to get this. Like I'm just saying like Alaska can't afford to lose Monero liquidity. Like I'm looking out for my people here. You know what I'm saying? I'm not going to get a point because like if you're going to go to the Nero. It's 25 in Alaska. I think I think we all need to we need to go. People are getting to Argentina. Like you have no idea the nightmares that would have to happen to get to where I'm at. Right. Like don't get me wrong. If you get here I can put on the most epic party you've ever seen in your life. But like Maritopia 2025. Now you're talking. I think 2025. Yeah. You could hold it in like Anchorage or something. That could work. No. No. No. No. I put this. I'd highly consider this for 2025. Well. I do want to even like host it in 2020. I could get a whole bunch of companies in on it and everything. But the thing is is the timing would have to be the exact opposite of what's suggesting for Argentina. Because the thing is that they already do Monero-Tron in the summer in the northern heaven. Right. So you should do Monero-Topia during the summer and the southern heaven. That's kind of what I'm like. Yeah. That's what we're doing. That's currently what we're doing. Yeah. But then the flip side of that is like let's say something happens with Monero-Con. Well then you could do like a Monero-Con replacement in Alaska summer. But I'm also trying to point out that if you're an outsider like in Alaska we call it going outside. Alaska. If somebody wants to come to the United States it's a huge pain in the ass. Right. Like there's all kinds of extra bullshit that you have to deal with to go to the United States. So for example you couldn't have that awesome you know the Zano guy. Like that was one of the highlights of Monero-Topia. That would be out there. Well I mean I could get him here but you know that's a whole other conversation. But something totally unrelated. Did you know that there's fishing charters that go to ketchikan? Completely unrelated. Yeah. Side note. Yeah just side note if you ever wanted to go fishing when you come to Alaska there's a lot of cool and you can look for my keys. Where's the ketchikan? What's that? Where does the fishing charter go from where to where? Well it's we'll talk. But it's a thing about like if you want. My point with the nota thing was I've been receiving all pretty much all payments in Monero except for one. And so we're two. Two two notes. Okay. So you know it's a little to watch these these I I've traditionally never never care right I'm all Monero. It's been a little bit difficult at times with the businesses whenever we keep you know I use my my personal fiat usually to fund the businesses for fiat payments so then that allows us to keep the Monero. But with the nota I don't want to get caught short because it's it's there's some big expenses that are coming up with that and the capital could get could potentially get cut in half. So you start to when you actually use Monero in a very real way you make it you know you live off of Monero and you you you walk the walk you don't talk to talk you do realize that these things do potentially come an issue with the volatility of of a cryptocurrency which is. So is the primary problem that you're concerned about the volatility eating into like business profits or. Yeah let's say I sell you know we sold 40 notos already let's say we sell 50 there there are 500 bucks you're selling them for $500 each. You know if those funds get cut in half it's going to be difficult for me to to source the money to pay the supplier right I haven't we haven't made all those payments yet. So in that case you should use. So you might not so like a short position like protection. Yeah so that's well yeah but just just to be clear just to be clear I understand it's you you might not have the fiat necessary to pay your suppliers and your supply chain or you you have the fiat to pay them but you're just concerned about taking the price hit. I know I had I had the company I potentially could have the fiat but it's a big personal risk is that you know that's a lot of fiat and then I'm low on fiat right so okay that's that's the risk there so it's like it's a balance game you know it's basically how much basically that you know do you want to go all would you want to invest $50,000 in cash right now and buy Monero right that's really what it's what it's coming that like that's effectively what the question is or do you want to stay in cash. So as far as the corporation goes it's is it registered in New York like do you have access to for example Kraken? No I don't have access to Kraken yeah it's registered in New York. You know with XM more we'll have perhaps an avenue to Kraken that way when we do that but right now yeah we're cut off which is also you know we talk I talk about every once in a while but don't really talk about enough the fact that Monero has never never been listed on the centralized exchange here in New York it's just incredible when you think about it the amount of people that have been cut off from Monero from day one it's tremendous. So I think was it drunk? I was just talking about taking so you could take a short position and this is something that's like this is really what futures markets were invented for originally was farmers that wanted to make sure they locked in their price and didn't get screwed over by fluctuations in commodities prices. So hypothetically if you're comfortable with the Monero price right now and you wanted to mitigate some of that risk you could open a short position but the question is where right like you might not have since since your company is in New York you couldn't do it the company couldn't do it but hypothetically you could do it potentially I don't know if you have a resident somewhere else or if you have a way of accessing Kraken but yeah I mean if you want to take a short position you're going to have to get on to a centralized exchange. The other thing that you can do and you're going to pay a probably about one about one percent on either side of this trade hypothetically you could use Trocador.app and just swap into stablecoins right so you could just get some USDC and probably going to is that currently the cheapest way to go into a stablecoin right now what is currently the cheapest way was one of these instant. I find that significant amount of cash like 50 grand. There might be cheaper ways but I don't think that there's that much liquidity on the atomic swap market yet like to get in because you'd have to swap from Monero into Ethereum and then Ethereum into a stablecoin on Uniswap so it's like you know and then you're going to pay the Ethereum piece to do all that really like paying the 1% spread it's like half a percent to 1% depending on who you go with. Trocador.app is cool because they show you like which exchanges are good and bad like they give them a ABCD score in terms of like will they give you your money back if you refuse to KYC how often do they K-YC stuff like that and they have an onion because that's so. That's how I do it is use coin I use Coinbase and buy USDC each month and then take the USDC over to Trocador and swap it for Monero. I'm just so accustomed to not moving out of Monero. So it's just like I'm embedded so I mean to be. Doug's living the Monero life. The truth is I'll just leave it there you know if Monero hits a low of 110 it's just a matter of time if I could hold out long enough to when it starts to go go back up. I mean I do that risk usually by just doing 20,000 right like just do 20,000 into like if you're if your fiat obligation there is going to be around 50k then do like half of it you know or do do 40% of it and that way your head's at least a little bit. And you know one of those. All of them. But it's not about all or nothing. It's not like the improvement of the liquidity too. Like so as an example like if you wanted to keep it like super up and up right like a company like mine could just have an agreement right where on this day and this day every month right like let's say the 10th and the 20th of every month of like a $500 fiat check is going to be sent business to business right and whatever the the value of that check is when it arrives and is deposited right so the day that the check clears like the the the exchange value of that Monero on like a given location is just liquidated into a certain wallet or whatever and you could just have a price agreement that's based on that for you know x period of time. But you could do that with several different people who are interested in capitalizing Monero out of business right and there's a lot of people who would be very interested in doing that right so for example a tobacco company could take fiat fed notes and provide change in Monero right and if you're a tobacco company that sells you know a whole bunch of cartons of cigarettes and usually people come in they pay with a hundred dollar bill they get a carton of cigarettes they get their change in Monero right they're providing a value added service and in exchange they're also fiat capitalizing another company right like and I don't think you understand like the reason the farmers are like we I buy farmer futures in Alaska right now for barley perdome right those farmers will not survive without it like there's no fucking way because if they do it through a bank they're paying 10 percent or but if they do it through me I get the value of the trucking infrastructure right by getting on price I double my money because I truck all of that great so if the price goes up I made money on the grain side if the price goes down I made it on the truckings so I'm hedged and I passed that hedge along you'd be doing the same thing you're hedging your business guaranteeing a long-term profitability but you also write out the volatility exchange you can create a value added service for businesses halfway around the world right like I would I'm not even joking I would help you do that like literally right now I'll come up with five businesses right now that'll do five hundred dollars in liquidity at a certain price agreement if it falls between these ranges and we'll do it for you know three months up to a total of ten thousand dollars or whatever I'll help you right keep it above board and everything another thing to do is just simply sell at the averages as I said Monero does not seem to appear to deviate about but about 12 percent from the averages so if you sell it like the 200-day moving average then yes right now technically people are going to pay more than 500 for it I just realized I didn't say that when I was saying a price with that yeah that's what that's what I mean when I say price agreement it's yeah just selling the deal amongst the two businesses that they're going to buy at a certain predictable number okay yeah we could talk about that all right so far we've got 13 bets nice 13 bets and we've got almost 15 us dollars of a pot for people just tuning in where we're we're taking bets on what the high will be for Monero in 2024 you can place your bet by simply sending a Monero transaction to this address that's that's shown here to this QR code tux you could also post it again in the chat we'll post the actual the number and just send the amount that representing what you think the high for Monero will be starting with 0.00 so if you think it's going to be $200 0.002 who was it the 20s because anybody remember before I forget because I have my matrix and I was going to give the guy but now I can't even remember who asked me for my contact I don't know oh from wait what last time last show no like what 15 minutes ago somebody said is there we were talking about who was that oh my wasn't it yeah I yeah I was drunk I'm I'm laughing on on matrix work yeah drink though you could hit me up and I'll try to put you in touch what I was going to say what what server because you've got to have the server as well so it's at all aspects of the order yeah just regular make fix that are going right now okay you're matrix that are okay guys like and share the show I'm going to show this real quick because the person unknown unknown keeps mentioning it and it is cool so I'm sure a lot of you saw us on Twitter but there is a a laptop vendor that takes Monero called Nova custom oh yes yes yeah I did see this and I've actually heard about them for I've known about them for a little while I had no idea they took Monero I guess somebody found that out but they offer laptops that come pre-installed with windows or Linux and a lot of their laptops are compatible with core boot or a dash arrow specific payload for core boots and if you're like one of those people who want something like that and what core boot is it's like open source firmware right so the former is much more open than you typically typically have on like a Dell or an HP and if you want something like that they sell laptops and they're a lot newer than like those old think pads that people used to use which you still can but they're hard to use for some stuff these are really high performance laptops as I guess basically open source BIOS is what is core boot isn't core boot basically open source BIOS if I remember correctly it's firmware yeah and then like C BIOS is like the BIOS payload or Tiano core is like a UEFI payload for core boot core boots like a firmware and a loader and this comes with core boot in dash arrow dash arrows like works as a BIOS and a UEFI and it has a lot of security features and it gets to go down to the spectrum that let's see this is just one random one I click down this is one you can get for less than 700 bucks I wish I knew this a week ago before Christmas I just bought my daughter a laptop but I think I could still return it let's see let me um let me add it to cart if I can I will one figure oh yeah let's configure get this this this was a little bit old this is 11 gen let me see let me see if I have a newer one I'd love to uh oh so these two don't have core boot these ones though though these ones that have the core boot image on them these ones some more core boot so let's take a look at this one so just dumb this down for me for sec tux like these things are are literally just as usable as as any other laptop yes yeah basically the same and I mean these laptops themselves are nothing special these are actually some of these are probably the exact same laptops that system 76 cells um they come from a company a Chinese company called Tong Feng so they're more like a rebrander but they're providing the additional firmware support like Nova custom they actually pay this German company to make the open source firmware so they're going out of their way paying this company to develop core boot firmware for these laptops so they are just to elaborate because I think what Doug is wondering is why bother right so here's the deal um computers work with a stack okay so the lower on the stack you are the more control you have over everything that's built on top of that stack so the lowest part of the stack would be like control over the actual hardware right and everything is built on top of things it's built on top of things right so if you have root for your operating system everything that's running on that operating system or using the software for that operating system has been compromised by that root access well the thing is is firmware is below the operating so it's the lower on the stack that you have vetted open source software that's highly secure the the more epic the hacker would have to be to compromise the entire machine all right which is one of the reasons why graphing is so incredibly secure it's because it's way down at the stack you have highly vetted software here she is and then everything is there on your bitcoin or minero that's it sweet now we're talking and you know what people are probably going to use yeah i was just once in the area where the bitcoin fees actually isn't that i was going to say they're going to pay they're going to pay a fifty dollar bitcoin fee for them to post their numbers for who's using what right like yeah we need to get some like i guess that would be dug some like popular figure to be like look could you please publish how many people buy with bitcoin yeah yeah i'll try to get them on the show i'll try to get these i was on the show there should be a sponsor they should be one of a sponsor one of our segments here on the we also have to get system 76 because like the minero community is very interested in open source hardware at every level um you know in fact by the way everybody that you've been before the nv 41 series the nv 41 series is cubes like it's one of the only laptops that's officially certified yeah you're right so which which would be i would actually probably recommend this oh sorry go ahead no go ahead buddy i saw go ahead i just say i probably recommend this over a purism like i have a purism laptop but if i was gonna buy a new one i'd probably get the nova custom nv 41 this one right here and you can get it with like the lowest specs and that would be uh we're doing it more than enough for your for whoever you're getting it for yeah i think i'm gonna get it for i'm gonna return the one i got for my daughter and i'm gonna get this there you'll get uh could come with the boot to or linux mint it keeps us certified requires more memory but you could do uh oobot to linux mint you know dug the other thing about i get her waiting is getting your daughter a laptop oh i mean she's not she's not resolved oh oh oh it's like a pin with extra 62 bucks which i use for a whole well anyways uh Doug one thing that i tell you about like when it comes to getting your daughter into computing um it can't be overstated find somebody who has somewhat of a teaching background and um find some method of encouragement to get her to troubleshoot further customization so one of the things that made more women computer literate than every anything else ever was when my space kind of gave you an advantage for learning html my wife went from completely computer literate to like super computer savvy because of my space my wife is very young we're talking about like 10 year old so um and now she's like quite computer savvy but um women are usually very interested in the personalization aspect of a computer and getting it to do exactly what they want and the earlier they learn to be it's very different than trying to like get a get a man to learn to use computers because you usually tackle it from the engineering side of things but women are much more interested in the uh in the customization and flexibility that computers have to offer and so finding somebody with the teaching background that will kind of get the ball rolling on that will set her will set her many many years ahead of her peers um and there are a lot of people that will do that so in fact um i would be willing to point to some people in the linux community that have done that for my kids or for cloey or for demi or whatever awesome man dude i i love the way your mind works yeah your takes i love it so it's always it's always something unique um no magic you want to i'm gonna read some laptop for mnero no but custom yeah in the core boot something that people uh like in the the privacy opens her space definitely value and yeah let's kanana's he he summed it up pretty well it's like the low low level code that the hardware runs on and it's nice for that to be open it's beautiful i will let you guys know if i if i pull the trigger on that and get one get a few more bets coming in nice anything quick go through the that's for a sec anybody so everybody's going high right is anybody going low okay did i see a third one first one's a thousand and then we've got 238 this one's mine 736 625 we're betting on the high of manero why would somebody go low when you're betting on the high do you have a few low ones well we can five four nine five two fifty getting lower three three another 420 421 220 oh 185 wow bearish and 300 what's the price now right there there is a doomsday scenario manero 185 is bearish it's 166 yep yeah it's gonna it's gonna go above that at some point it might not go all the way to a thousand but it'll that's why i said 250 because i figured i figured that's a good medium range as i said though my average bet is 175 as an average we've got a 20 dollar pot now so it's going up a little bit no we don't have we don't have a 20 dollar pot we have a uh how many narrow pot there you go you don't you don't quote you don't quote prices and dollars what the fuck is wrong with you unfortunately that's the uh the the main reference of value that the world uses still but i appreciate your uh your change of view point 12 manero pot guys how many dollars do you think manero is going to be worth David oh how many dollars do you think manero is going to be worth in 2024 come on five oh jeez i hope not man don't do that wow i heard i thought you wanted to be paid in manero David maybe he meant five bitcoin all right if you're gonna be shy then i'll be on the camera how much is manero gonna be worth in dollars that hurts man five hundred five thousand you gotta you gotta appreciate the confidence though yeah he's you know this he maybe he's right maybe he knows something kids he says it's gonna be with five gold bars five oh five gold bars i wish i hadn't turned it off because right after i turned the mic off he was like when i asked him how much in dollars he's like it doesn't work like he's saying what shortwave was saying you can't price it all right guys we're at uh three hours it's gonna help us just wow i didn't put that i'm put it up again but i put the private view key in the comments so you guys can open that on a wallet if you want to watch yeah make sure to add that to like the description of the youtube video and the podcast uh when the podcast comes out the podcast description yes that's a good idea we'll say we'll stop taking bets uh like near nears eve New York so any bets after New Year's Eve New York time will be disqualified any bets after that would just be donations to the pod when is very tomorrow night tomorrow tomorrow night little over 24 hours oh that was a good year it's one year 2024 is gonna be highly entertaining though i'd be i'd be shocked if things calm down no it's pretty crazy yeah yeah only ramping up any any last remarks anybody wants to put out there for 2023 before we close it out i was the only one for 2023 and for those who are listening i think the manero community should like we should find a way to vote and tally but we should try to pick one or maybe two projects that we all as a community agree to focus a certain amount of time or money on every like for a project for like a one-year goal does that make sense so maybe a one-year goal of um i mean a big one for me would be open source hardware right i mean there's and i know that would be big in the community or another one is uh like what you've done Doug like focus on adoption in one area like manero topia kind of inadvertently did um i think it would be really cool to maybe have like a round table show where we all try to come together for like a targeted goal on an annual basis as a community that's cool so like you mean example like so and we would do what though we would let me turn David's computer on it will take two seconds okay so you know an Aquarius will stay for the next 20 years so just like uh you know if you're a company you have a one a three and a five-year goal right and some and some countries have like a five ten twenty-year goal or whatever i think that the best platform for manero to come up with like a timed horizon goal for manero as a community would be this platform and then every January we should have like a round table discussion for uh like a time horizon goal one here i love this kid all right just if you don't got to run but we do have two more people that just join the stage if you want to keep talking yeah let's let them up let them up you got a run tux yep but we got Danny and comrade blin up here no worries no worries um can you just leave like the QR code up uh yeah i think so let me i don't know if it'll go away with my screen or i will just uh i mean no worries if you can okay so the time horizon goal though in january like by the end of january we should try to have a year goal until the next year goal in january um because if you think about one of the downsides of the open source software community so you have like 10 million people doing 10 million things and it takes 10 million times as long as opposed to like focus groups of tackling one specific goal at a time and a lot of mental energy grabbing little pieces of that right and the thing is is i've seen in the case of you dug like one of your talents is to kind of like rally the troops and like hone in on the goal right and then come up with ways to get a lot of people that probably wouldn't play nice together to work together pretty effectively um and i think that there would be a serious value to like this right here is our goal so for example maybe it's like we're gonna get one you know rust belt town in fucking nebraska to have every every business excepts manero or something like i mean that would be a terrible example but like a really good example would be focusing on uh even ettie and for mosa right it already has some some traction there putting our yeah so maybe like by manero topia on this day like everybody in this town is going to have an active manero like and specifically it should probably be a cake wallet right like everybody's going to have a cake cake or a manero.com wallet everybody's going to know how to use it and everybody will accept it right like that's the goal and without any coercion without any like just straight up bribery right but just incentivize it through all kinds of various means you try to you try to knock out like one project at a time and you know maybe we could start off small before we try to tackle the open source hardware thing or whatever but i that is one thing that i would like to see happen with this in this community this level of brain power that's available and not only that but this level of finance right like this or maybe um let's do it let's let's activate it we could uh you know maybe maybe even next show because it'll be the beginning of the new year we could do something like we're doing right now actually with this wallet idea and use that for people to vote we could have like maybe come up with like five different options let people vote and then the top top voted project is one that we we focus on and then uh report progress a year from now i like it and you know we could also like you have your one-year goal and then maybe every like quarter you have a really simple goal like we're gonna take the manero pamphlet guys work we're gonna update it make it gorgeous or whatever and then we're gonna translate it into all of these languages and then print them and hand them out and the goal is to hand like we get a hundred people to hand out 200 pamphlets in their home community in their native language right focusing on um even i mean it doesn't have to be this but i just keep thinking like focusing on Formosa yberete because there's already so much energy there and then we're doing copa manero so that's gonna that's gonna play into it and just trying to grow manero adoption it could even be in the main city of Formosa uh which is uh you know it's not actual substantial city as opposed to like the village of yberetete i would even be willing to add like it would be interesting to see the data that comes out of it too right because there there it could you imagine what kind of data could be gleaned from a community adopting somewhat of a parallel standard and then seeing like if those businesses see a growth in their their gross revenue over here versus over here if the if the if the value of the currency held up against the one that they were using or whatever i mean the all of the data would just be amazing all right anybody else have any uh thoughts for closing out 2023 oh we have the new people right i can't they're too small up here with the thing up who do we got who we got up here on stage Danny and blin what's going on going on danny oh not too much getting ready to get ready to catch a flight later to phoenix oh okay four years uh yeah kind of and uh going to uh courtsite there's a big rv convention there like i think a million people show up supposedly every year so we'll see what happens oh that's awesome yeah i'm looking forward to in archipelco and you know yes yes you guys coming from uh Argentina and and then i've got the two-man guy coming back maybe we'll do a marketplace and have some fun with that very cool so yeah yes so we should say alisandre is it's probably gonna tend right he's he's the kid from even doing the whole manero town thing yeah i'm touched with danny and so he's gonna be a speaker yes poco that's amazing yeah that's amazing yeah and uh we've got you know one coming back from two men so uh his ideas to you know set up a table and sell stuff uh for two men and we're we should have the wallet ready for him and we're gonna give digital to men to the goers of an archipelco so that they can spend it and uh we're working on a multi-coin wallet by forking ycash so i don't know if we can get menero in that but hopefully we can very cool what is an archipelco uh february 11th through the 17th i don't think we're gonna make it there we got a family thing going on maybe exciting that alisandre will be there that's that's amazing have body do it as a remote reporter guy it's gonna be easier yeah i'm looking yeah i'm still looking for one more we have uh arctic mind was was supposed to be in person but he has a court date and he thought he was going to be able to be in person and they they told him no that he does have to be in court so um i have room for one more i'd like to get somebody from menero to to fill that spot for in person we're still gonna have uh francesco's uh you know presentation as a virtual but but that's not like a stage you know that's on a separate stage so for me what's that maybe body will i know i think he attended last year but maybe he wants to present i don't think he presents um no i had him present oh he did yeah we had him on uh i had him on the the talk so every morning of the of anarchopoco i do a one-hour show and i get you know i try to keep it crypto but sometimes i have to do some of the other stuff and you know the yoga and all the other like i i'm not into all that other crap i'm just there for the crypto i couldn't really get i don't give a shit about you know all this boot is bullshit like just let me let's keep it tagbit you know it's it brings in other people you know it is cool for other people that that's just not my thing you know i will put it out there it was funny anytime the first time i went it was it was a blast that we had a great time down there yeah yeah this this it'll be a little bit smaller than last year just uh because of the damage from hurricane uh yeah pretty cool uh yeah and and that was i don't know i think we've mentioned that before but manero was the biggest crypto that was sent to the hurricane relief and yeah that is you know it's amazing we we were not able to get the uh go fund me funds for over a week i think it was almost ten days before we got any of the go fund me funds so you know we wouldn't have been able to do what we did and you know in the important time of need without manero because i mean we were literally using all the crypto for the you know for the whole thing up to that point so i was incredible to see that manero just dwarfs like the coin even in terms of oh yeah yeah was it incredible though i mean we've been seeing that that's been the case for like seven years now yeah well i mean previously a lot of the other projects that i worked on before were the the donations were huge in bitcoin but you know you could afford to send a send a transaction then now it's like you have to mortgage your home just to send three dollars in bitcoin for the fuck yeah but think about it in terms of as a percentage of users oh it's some use of community has always been the most generous far back is a percentage of users and like the liquidity pool available even way back in the day you know there were so many bitcoiners and so few manero people and yet the manero donations have always been well that i mean dash was dash was pretty epic um i did a lot of stuff with that i was sponsored by dash for some of the stuff we did i mean i literally built four homes in in puebla with donations from dash so they're you know they don't there are a lot to learn from dash there's a lot of things that need to be replicated from that journey the manero community but yeah i think you know dash dash's downfall i think was the the ceo of their dashcore group but their centralization was their Achilles heel yeah yeah but they've gotten rid of that guy so you know the ryan taylor guy so i'm i'm hopeful for them i hope i hope they at least come back a little bit i mean it was a great community i mean a really good people there so and that that's the number one thing i mean above all is the community i mean what what good is a crypto if it doesn't have a community i mean i think one thing that hurt them a lot was the uh the insta mine whether it was accidental or genuine or in the whole way i'm you know i'm somewhat versed in what happened there but it that wasn't a good thing that happened and uh i think it turned a lot of people out you know that that's true but also light coin had the exact same thing in fact that's how it happened to dash is because of the code that came from light coin that you know only charlie lee called called like in light coin it was called a fast mind instead of an insta mind but they were they were basically the same thing anybody out comrade you still there is comrade there i'm still here i'm just on my laptop and well let's just start the microphone on microphone sorry is it clear yeah yeah um doc could you speak uh after the show about if i may come uh to the dev reports again as i have time yeah yeah sure sure sure we'll um reach out to us or we'll reach out to you yeah we can fill you some i message you on tologram okay sweet i still remain convinced that you can up the viewership by having an extra show a week of regular time you know and the dev report would be like a perfect way to do that but like yeah i don't know if we have the bandwidth for it but i'm open to anything um maximum is asking when is eczema barbers are planned to be up and running we're hoping an archaea is like is dead set on trying to finish it before the year ends um and then you know we'll we'll be open for testing so early january figure speaking of our bitch um you told me some QR code related thingy uh when we last uh spoke what about that oh for gratuitous yeah we could talk about that we could talk about that off point figure figure out if we can make that work yeah anybody that's interested in eczema brazar you could jump into the chat on it i don't know if i have uh what's the easiest way to share a chat room from elman anybody know um doesn't it's a very forward button when you right click it i got it i got it sure so okay um anybody uh anybody else want to throw anything out before we close it out 123 comments i just put the link to the chat for brazar for anybody that wants to be part of the early launch we can start testing it please jump in that room and what is that can you i'm late to the game here uh eczema brazar we've been working on it for almost a year now or i guess maybe six months it's being built by an archaeo it's going to be a peer-to-peer minero based marketplace with multi-sigature escrow built into it okay so like uh open brazar was or or haven as well i'll give it like minarazon.com yeah yeah yeah more like more like a craigslist but with minero payment built into it and and uh just essentially a trustless escrow so people can use minero to buy and sell goods and services directly peer-to-peer it's not it's not decentralized in you know we're gonna be running eczema brazar on our servers it's not a dark market um but it's marketplace where anybody can come on there you can create accounts anonymously and you can sell your your goods and services my hope is it becomes a a place where consulting becomes popular where people sell consulting services for minero um but you know whatever it turns us and do you have a way of of keeping out the illegal stuff well it's it's gonna have to be curated to a degree i mean uh the terms will be that you know if you have to use this in accordance with your local laws right and those of the people that you're engaging with peer-to-peer after all right so it's so much like it looks like your users are responsible obviously the platform is possible to a degree if we see like a great things that are clearly illegal right yeah you don't want to end up in a sale next to Ross no no no no definitely not but we think there's value there for me or me some of us might not mind being in a sale right next to Ross or uh what uh the guy you know the guy that uh he was accused of killing you know Curtis Curtis Green he's uh he's joined our dragon ex crew over there and he's got some he's got some pretty crazy stories about how all of that went down yeah there's a lot a lot of interesting stuff there yeah he was the the guy with the tomato soup on his face for those who are listening though like i just put and i i don't have like an actual stake necessarily in the project but like the the early testing of XMR bizarre is going to be very fundamental and success that it can attain going forward um testing is going to be incredibly important and testing with some tech savvy people and some not tech savvy people is crucial because you need people who can suggest solutions but you also need people that can idiot prove the system i have a question if if i'll be one of the latter the the idiot proofing people and yeah well we we need more of those people that you know are going to help improve the UX right i want this to be as usable as as possible super simple super easy for people to engage go ahead i have a question does anybody know anything about this XMR swaps on samurai yeah we were talking about it a little bit uh alaskan on i don't know do you know the details is it just being used for washing toxic change or are they actually like are people gonna be a little bit sort of the the XMR swap thing appears to be basically a supplement to like a whirlpool type of um and that really does appear to be the way that they're hoping to use it um but the other thing is is you know samurai wallet is an open source platform so it also kind of builds tools that other people can mix and match how they want to use it however they want to use it um but the atomic swap thing you know has been around for a while now as far as btcxmr so there's nothing really pioneering about it that i can see um but the reality is is i don't use samurai wallet because i don't use bitcoin because the only crypto i use point then probably going forward forever is manero so what's exciting about it is it's rich to the bitcoin privacy community who already most of them are already like okay with manero but maybe a little pull more than to the manero world go ahead buddy get to add on to that um with the samurai wallet they've they said since day one that if you ever see us doing altcoins you know we've been compromised and they took a lot of crap when they started offering um uh XMR swaps um but the important thing i believe that they said is listen we're only handling the bitcoin side of it if you want to do the manero side of it you're going to need a manero wallet for that we don't we don't actually hold manero in our wallet so um i wouldn't expect that those guys are ever going to have like they're they're probably never going to integrate like a full xmr btc swap um implementation so which is why it was some shit right because i you know like i just don't really they come across a slightly hypocritical for me with in that regard because if they're if their goal is is to create digital cash uh why are they and even at the point where they like they need to use manero for like these purposes why don't they just take it the step further why are they cutting off their users from accessing it when they should be providing a platform for them to access it as easily as possible if this is what they're they're out there fighting for in the first place dare you say yeah i mean i can understand that i think it's i think it's mostly about the fact that they're trying to stick to their word because you know they kind of painted themselves in a corner and i it was during the whole um the fork wars and everything manero still wasn't all that well known and it wasn't really all that well proven at the time um so they might not have even known about manero when they made that statement but you know they don't i can understand why as a product they don't want to suddenly go back on that um even if it's kind of like the right thing to do because they're they're trying to keep their credibility in fact but they've also got they've also got mining pools that are going to exclude transactions from their wallet like what kind of fucking bullshit is that yeah samura is the ones being excluded ocean pool is the ones that uh with the crazy crazy luke dash junior yeah and a few other guys but yeah there's the samurai transactions now there's a privacy there's a privacy channel that you can find on youtube if it's youtube uh watchman privacy he has an internet he has an interview with samurai wallet that's very very recent yeah but i'm gonna be doing one i'm gonna be doing one with him soon as well i've been talking recently so real custodian i think is his name yeah um but he did a samurai wallet interview um and what it's something dojo i can um it was really recent so there's there but there's an analogy that he used which is if you think of bitcoin like a ship and there's all of these people on the ship and they're fighting amongst each other for steering the ship in a given direction right the analogy really works for what i perceive as what's going on the samurai right now which is they're trying really really hard to steer bitcoin in the original cypherpulk direction that it was meant to be going and they're trying really hard to preserve that as long as can feasibly be done and it actually reminds me a lot of the seth the seth for privacy eth as well um there are people like ourselves that are just we just go to the thing that is effective and works but there are other people that have a big heart for the masses i guess you could say um and keep in mind there's all kinds of businesses that have been built on the backs of bitcoin there's all kinds of other technologies that are pioneered on bitcoin um you know there's a lot of passion projects tied up into this ship and samurai wallet is one of those passion projects um and there are so many people who you know you you could look at it as though they're fighting for what they believe in until they know they can't fight anymore or you could look at a sunken cost fallacy like i do but i at least respect the fact that they are are sticking to their guns and trying to make it work um but on the flip side i do believe it is a sunken cost fact i think that i mean there's go ahead there's a lot to be said um for the fact that like if you want to try and pull some of the hard like some of the hardcore maximalists and sort of shake them from being a little bit too hardcore and open them up you kind of have to meet them halfway and like he said seth seems to be trying to do that samurai seems to be trying to do that um one thing larkin roasts said that i really appreciated is like he says well you know you need to be nicer when you talk to people or you need to bash them over the head it's like well everyone's going to respond to something a little bit differently and the most important thing is to be congruent to your own personality and to spread good ideas um in the way that's most comfortable to you and also you know i mean well trying to be socially savvy about it but it does make a lot of sense to have some people you know that are more on the hardcore meneroside and really like calling out the hypocrisy but but we do need guys like seth and we do need guys like samurai that are trying to meet um other people halfway to to create better outcome agreed agreed all right guys i think that's a good place to leave it uh we're over we're at like three and a half three point five it is the end of the year show so i mean it's the year we stood a lot in today yeah i i don't think we're not getting a live feed on on these donations here but i don't know if more came in or not donations bets um did he post the vuki somewhere i think he did yeah he post the vuki so we'll see we'll say well we'll be back a year from now to award the winner the best guess for the menero top price in 2024 which shall be interesting no matter what it is and guys yeah we'll leave it at that happy new year everyone i think it was great 2023 looking forward to 2024 and cheers to everybody that's uh been helping us and everybody that participates we do these shows every saturday at 11 a.m. eastern and we'll keep doing that in 2024 and have a good new year cheers guys cheers cheers thank you for joining us on this week's maratopia episode we stream live shows every saturday at 11 a.m. eastern you can find and subscribe to our show on youtube and odyssey or listen to the podcast on itunes spotify or stitcher don't forget to follow us on twitter or join us in the menero topia telegram group see you all next week