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Todd and Julie Chrisley: 10 Years a Federal Target · TARGET Podcast

• Shannen Sharpe: If the FBI comes knocking, they're not your friend, they're not seeking truth. We are talking in this podcast about what it means to be targeted by the federal government in criminal law enforcement. We can expand this investigation to include his wife, his mother, and his children. And I think that people cannot comprehend that that is actually a common tactic that prosecutors use all the time. We even signed to waive the statute of limitation. Todd was like, let's I guess we just signed it. We know we haven't done anything. The system wants you to be cooperative. They want you not to fight. If they put a target on you, you're screwed. To me, I'm thinking, am I the crazy one? The first question we ask everyone is when did you first find out you were targeted? I'm Alex Little, a former federal prosecutor who now is a defense lawyer that stands on the other side of the courtroom defending clients. And I'm Amy Nelson. Former Wall Street lawyer and entrepreneur who'd never touched criminal law until the FBI knocked on my door. And I had to walk my husband through a four-year DOJ investigation. This is the Target Podcast. Todd, Julie, welcome. Thank you for being here. We appreciate your time. We are talking in this podcast about what it means to be targeted by the You obviously v very famously suffered that fate. The first question we ask everyone is When did you first find out you were targeted? I think we found out I received a phone call telling me that I was being investigated by the Northern District of Georgia. and that would have been in 2012 when we tried to bring charges against our former CEO, Mark Braddock. Well, let me ask that. So just to dial down, you got a phone call. I assume you're just going about your daily work. My attorney got a phone call from the Northern District. And he called me. And that's not a criminal attorney, to be clear. That's right. There was a civil attorney. So they say, hey, you you're under investigation. Did you understand that to mean criminal investigation at that point? No, I don't know that I understood any of that. when he called me, he said, I received a phone call today. He says from the Northern District of Georgia, stating that they have some questions for you and that you're under investigation. I asked them, is my client a target? And they said, not at this time. It's just an investigation. And I said, about what? And so then he shared, you know, what it was all about. I said, he stole from us. And he goes, I understand. But I'm just telling you, say nothing. Don't talk to anyone. Let everything go through me. And so then we hired a criminal attorney that took it over. That was in 2012. But I remember calling Judy and saying, You're not gonna believe this. I guess they're investigating me and I'm the one who turned Mark in. And she goes, What? And Judy's name was never even mentioned. It was just this is the first time you know anything. And as far as you know, Todd has a phone call and you're just living your life. Right. Yes. Right, right. So we Because I knew I had nothing to do with this business. So it's like and so when that went on for I think six months, seven months. And the prosecutor at that time came back to our attorney my attorney that I had hired and told him that we are not going to be pursuing this any further. There's not enough here for us to to do anything with. What I can tell you is that I can't tell you if your client's innocent or guilty. I can tell you that with a witness like what we have with Mark Braddock, we're not willing to go into a courtroom. So that was in two thousand and twelve. And that it was a business dispute. And it was a business. It was that they were considering Well, that was that was Paul Howard, who was the DA at the time. Gotcha. Because we filed a huge Rico suit against Mark Braddock for stealing millions of dollars from us. And then our attorneys took that to the DA to ask him to prosecute it. And Paul Howard, he came back and said, This is a business dispute. This is a business divorce. There's too much money involved here, he says, for my team to get involved. We don't have the resources for a case like this. So if I had my time to go over and know then what I know today, I would have I would have demanded closure on it. Yep. Now to be clear, this is ten years before you actually end up on trial. That's right. And so and a little bit what's interesting is the first conversation your lawyer has is no, you're not a target. That's right. And so you evolve into a target. ten years later after we became after we got on television. The folks who are watching may recogni realize this, but that transition for you between twenty twelve and twenty twenty two is the whole growth of the Chrysley Yes. That's right. Right. Yes. You are I mean s not to be fair, you were an important real estate investor, but you weren't the Todd Chrisly that people know from T V in twenty twelve. Right. Right. So somebody got interested in you between that time. Yes. we I mean I obviously I I've represented you all since then. I I kind of know that story. Not everybody may We find out later that there is a very active person who dislikes you at the Georgia Department of Revenue. Right. and that we'd never met. Right. And so is is the next thing that comes along years later the warehouse? Yes. So tell me about that. I mean w we that actually came along in two thousand and seventeen. Yeah. We had made the decision to move to Nashville to film our show, Living Our Life. We moved from a large home in Georgia to a smaller home in Tennessee. We had lots of furniture. We decided to just put it in storage, honestly, because we didn't know what to do with it, you know. And we're like, okay. Right. So we're and the furniture was big and we were like, let's just put it here. I can't even think about it right now. So it just sat there for years, literally. It was all inventory because we had an accountant at that time and he had said to us, I said, He said, What are you doing with the contents of the house? Because we were doing new stuff here. Sure, sure. And he said, I said, I don't know. I said, just donate it, I guess, or sell it. And he goes, I'd rather you donate it. Let's get a certified IRS appraiser to come in, get it set up in the warehouse, let them go through and appraise every item. Then when you donate it, that's the value of the credit that you would get. And I said, Okay, we paid this accountant to do all this stuff. And the appraiser came in. Did everything. and then one day we were filming. Yeah. And I'll never forget that. We were in the middle of filming and the lady who owned the warehouse called me, pantic. She was in a panic. She was like, There's people here, they're going through your stuff. They're saying that they're gonna put me in jail if I don't give access, you know, blah blah blah blah blah. And I mean, we're literally and I literally have to take a microphone off because we're filming. Right. And what did you do? When you hung up that phone call. She came and got told. I came and got told I'm like, Come here. This is And I call the lady and I and she she tells me who this woman that we're talking about ended up testifying at the evidentiary hearing. In the criminal case. At the criminal case. And when that judge said that this was wrong, this should have never happened, it was an illegal search and seizure. Patty, her name was. And she was a wonderful human being because she did not allow the prosecutors to Bend her or make her say anything that was not the truth. but she told me who was there, and I said, for what? Yeah. And she says, they're saying that you owe back taxes. I said, for what? And she said, George, I said, we don't owe George any taxes. We're Florida residents. And she goes, I don't know what to do. They're saying they're gonna lock me up. I Well then let them have the shit. I said, Well, get the attorneys to deal with it. So I've went back in, put our mic back on because production you have to keep going. Right. Life goes on. Right. So I went in and we're here with a mic on, not knowing what's going on, but we've got to finish these scenes so that we don't fall behind in production, which is hundreds of thousands of dollars a day. And yet we're having to work with that stress. And from that point on, we went from two thousand and seventeen until two thousand and twenty. When we were indicted. Well, we were indicted in nineteen in nineteen. So for two years, we're sitting here in limbo. Yep. Not knowing, you know, being told, well, we need to see this, we need to see that. Going out to our accountant, trying to set him up, because they wore a wire when they went out there and met with him. And the thing that you should know is if the FBI comes knocking, they're not your friend, they're not seeking truth, they are trained to win a case. And they don't care how crooked they are, how deceptive they are. We had one that was as crooked as my math teacher's spine was when I was in high school. the don't talk to them. You don't owe them that. You don't have to speak to them, you tell them to speak to your attorney. But our accountant ended up speaking to them, allowed them to be recorded, and they said, who does Christly man, who does Seven Siege Productions belong to? He said, I think I think it's the daughter, I'm not sure. He said I'd have to go back and look. So that's what's on the recording. Which makes Which made no sense because seven seasons was owned by Julie. Well now they say that that was that he was lying to cover for us. Right. Now And then he said he didn't know where Todd's income's income came from. And he handled all of it. So when did when did so they they you get the phone call from Patty that they're at the warehouse. And then when are the investigators speaking to the accountant? Within it was within two weeks. So this all just starts rolling really quickly. Well, what we found out later on through Alex and through other things was that the Georgia Department of Revenue realized after they had seized this warehouse that we didn't owe tax. So they then get the Northern District of Georgia involved to cover for the illegal search. Because they figured we were gonna end up suing them. So they figured if they could get us tied up in a criminal case, that would cover up what they had done. Let me ask this. Both of you, I mean I think before this happened, your speech I agree with, don't talk to the police. They're not your friends. You would have probably thought very differently before this started. Absolutely. We raised our children that if a policeman asks you something, you answer them directly. And even to even to the extent of when all this was going on, and I I've thought about this so many times We even signed to waive the statute of limitations that was up with it. It only had four days left. And waived that. And our attorney told us to waive it. And now going back, there was no. There was no way it was ever going to be never indicted. They could have never indicted because they couldn't get all that shit together in four days. No. And had we just wait not waived that, we would have never gone to trial, never had any of it. Because the the system wants you to be cooperative. They want you not to fight. They want you to think that there's a good guy side and a bad guy side. And they're not. And they are the bad guys. And I think we believe as people, if we haven't done anything wrong, we have nothing to hide. So And that's what we were like. Todd was like, let's I guess we just sign it. We know we haven't done anything, so just let's just go ahead. The attorneys are telling us to sign it. That's what we did. It's one of And we should have never done that. It's one of the biggest regrets because we had faith in our judicial system. We had faith in our legal system. And I just, you know, we live in such a political environment right now. And I have always been a staunch Republican. I have always been conservative in my values. And I've always stood behind our police. I've always stood behind the judicial system. And I have to tell you now that I understand why the Democrats get pissed off at us. Because at the end of the day, there needs to be less government in people's lives. And the government that if we're going to pay tax dollars to subs to subsidize the government, the government should be a good steward of what they're taking from the taxpayer. Yep. And this case was about it's now come out. I mean we now know that the case was about winning what was the email to catch a big fish or whatever. We know that this was a trophy case for the Northern District of Georgia. Well it goes back to twenty twelve, you were told yeah, there's no nothing there. You're you become a trophy. And then they want to take that trophy. That's right. Now you you acknowledge, I mean, look, you you thought the police were gonna be your friends. That was not true. They took advantage of some easy request, I'm innocent, I'm not gonna do that. Do you think if you had a conversation back with yourself then, after that warehouse search, and they still are starting to investigate, you find out they're talking to your accountant, what do you tell Todd and Julie circa 2017? Circle of wagons. Yep. And what do you mean by that? What do you mean by circle wagons? Get the best defense team that you possibly can hire. We thought that that's what we had, because we had h hired multiple attorneys in this. We had a forensic accountant involved. But you know, n do the research on your attorneys. How did you how did you first hire your criminal defense team? It was a referral. It was a referral from a friend or from another lawyer. Fr from a friend who was very connected with the social scene in Atlanta, you know, was friends with all the attorneys and They said this is who you should try use. We'd never had a criminal case. We hired him. I'll tell you, everybody I talk to, when I get a case after like you all after trial or after conviction, they've hired one person, they haven't interviewed. I mean, think about it. You get a a bathroom redone. You're getting two or three estimates, right? Excellent. But your life's on the line and people are like, No, no, no, take the first But I think you're so panicked. And you are so the fear sets in so quickly that I think it it Clouds your judgment. Yes, and I will say, and I mean I know that both of you are attorneys, but I will say that I don't trust attorneys anymore either. No, I don't you have represented us and you have done a wonderful job for us, and we're grateful and blessed because you're the only one that has ever garnered any result for us. I appreciate it. Out of all the attorneys that we paid millions of dollars for, you are the only one that has garnered a positive result. but I d I believe that when if when you're facing something like what we were facing, no, it's not one interview. It's five interviews. Yeah. And you gotta look at attorneys because I I Julie has a hand towel on our on her stove that says, please don't tell my mom that I'm an attorney. She thinks she thinks I play the piano in a whorehouse. But I do have respect for Alex because again, we're sitting here having this interview today and Without Alex and without my daughter, Savannah, and Guide and President Trump, we would not be having this conversation. And look, there are lots of good defense attorneys out there. I am shocked though at how many people I didn't have them. Well, how many people with good means don't find those attorneys. Right. But I would think and I think part of it is too, I think part of it. That's why not to cut you off, but that's why the federal conviction rate is so high. Yes. Because they take they go after these people that have no resources. Because then automatically scare them to death and force them into a plea, which gives them a ninety seven point something percent conviction, right? Well, and that's what I was gonna say. I think people don't understand when they're caught in the system for the first time that ninety-eight point two percent of people in America who are accused of a federal crime end up pleading out. That's right. And I think it is largely driven by attorneys. Fear and attorneys. Yeah. You get the advice that you can't fight this system. If they put a target on you, you're screwed. The best thing to do is plead guilty and just deal with it. And that's not true. And I remember the day that when I hired this attorney and I was told, I said, What do you tell me what's going on? Tell me what this case is about. Explain it to me. And he said, We'll beat this. He said, There's nothing there. He says it's bullshit. He said, This he said, they're fishing for a trophy. You are the trophy. They want your head on the wall. And I said he said, now s now wire me $250,000. Am I lying? Yeah. That is exactly he said, now wire me $250,000. I said, do you feel like you're going to win this case? He said, no doubt. No doubt. I went in the house, told you, I said, What these are the w here's a copy of the wiring instructions because it was on my phone. I said, call the bank and have them to send two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. That day. Did you ever imagine but did you ever imagine that you would end up in prison? No, I mean because I knew we didn't do anything. And I really believed that the truth well the truth has come out now, but the truth only matters to those that want to believe the truth. And wha what about you? Did you believe that time I ten you know six years from now I'm gonna be in a federal prison? No, no. We had already had our plans, Alex, of of what we were gonna be doing. For vacation that fall or Well, you know, we knew that, you know, in two thousand seventeen we knew what our contracts were. Right. You know, we knew that I wasn't planning on extending That I wanted to get out of television, I wanted to go back to developing. We already had our plans of kind of where we're gonna live, where we're gonna build the next house. We n no one plans to go to prison. Yeah, you can't. But I will tell you that what, and it's and it's biblical, what your enemy had plans to use to destroy you is what made me stronger. Because you know, because you deal with me on a weekly basis. You know my involvement with the Bureau of Prisons. You know how I fight for these men and women every day, and you know the change that I have forced to happen. 100%. I would have never done that had God not placed me or allowed me to be placed in that environment. There was a saying that I listened to the other morning when I was listening to a sermon, and it said, the guy was saying, God, why did you allow this to happen? And God says, I didn't. Humanity allowed that to happen. I was just there with you to get you through it. guided you to a better place. And and God has and you know this because you deal with us. God has guided us to higher ground. 100%. And so I don't have I you know another guy said Todd how do you not have what was he said he asked did I have any animosity animosity or resentment. He said do you have animosity and resentment? And I said no because that means that I've allowed my heart to become the devil's fertile playground. Yeah. So I'm not going to do that. I'm going to use the opportunity that God has given me To help those that don't have that voice, like what you were saying, what happens to these men and women that don't have the resources to hire an Alex Little or to hire the team that we hire? I mean, my attorneys at that time, it seemed like every other week they were wanting to hire somebody else. And like, what in the hell are y'all doing? Why do I hire you if you gotta have this person to do this and this person to do this? And we've gotta hire this IT company for them to store all the emails and to start bundling things together and And then we gotta have this forensic accountant over here so the thing go back and trace the money. And this investigator. And then we gotta have this investigator in this state and this investigator here. And every other day we were signing contracts with people and sending fifty or a hundred thousand dollars at a pop. I mean, we ended up with r right at four million dollars total that we spent in legal things. Yeah. One of the things so my family sister's a doctor. When somebody has brain cancer, I use that analogy all the time. That being in this is like having cancer. Mm-hmm. You know, you just gotta get through it. you don't wanna have cancer. It sucks that you have it. It's bad luck. It's terrible. but at least with doctors and physicians, we're used to getting second opinions. Right? I want somebody else besides this guy before I go drilling my head. Yeah, yeah. and we're also more willing to ask for evidence or proof when somebody tells me lawyer says this is gonna get done, we're gonna solve it. Well could you give me some reason to believe that? Right. There's a lot of just kind of hocus, pocus law. Do you feel like at some point in the process you realized, or when I I suspect you both did, did you realize, there's really no like rules here. It's it's just happening. Yes, we realized that I think after the first initial hearing with Tommy Krepp, who was the lead prosecutor. We realized after that first hearing that there are no roles because they lied openly to the judge that day. And do you remember me coming unglued and I said, That's a lie. Why are you not calling them out for lying? And what was it about? Do you remember it was about how they wanted how this case was gonna go and that because of all the money and resources that we had that they wanted they wanted to place in a some kind of order out there to where they could monitor how much money we spent. How much money we had access to, and they wanted my kids to have independent attorneys because they were gonna call them in front of the grand jury. And then they turned around and said, and on this day, this loan was done, and Mr. Chrisley was aware that this loan took place regarding this development deal. Well, I knew that was a lie. I wasn't even there, it was a forged signature. So I looked at Bruce and I said, Why are you not saying something? And what did he say? And he said, We've got time for. Got for that. It's not a big deal. It's not a big deal. Not a big deal. Because it's the difference between lawyers who are used to the lack of truth. Well about you, Julie. When did you get there and go, This is not what I expected? You know, Todd shielded me from so much. And you know, I don't even know. I mean, I I can't really say because yes, for sure at trial. Because that first day, and and that that trial was absolutely one of the hardest things that I've ever gone through in my entire life. So that tells you. I mean, it it was it was one of the hardest things. but you know, after that first day of trial, after Mark was on the stand and he admitted that he did everything, and you know, throughout the trial, then you had bankers that said they knew who I was, but I'd never done business with them. They said I've never submitted an email to them, I've never submitted a document, no personal financial. No involvement with the bank. Nothing. but that they knew I was his wife. Well, so I'm thinking. We're good. Okay. Well now I'm okay. Like he's saying he did it. Yeah. You know, he's basically saying she's an idiot. She did nothing because she couldn't do anything. And the bankers are saying that I didn't have any involvement and that they never did business with me. So how can I be convicted of loan fraud when I've never done business with a bank? Like it's just like to me, I'm thinking, Am I the crazy one? Like, am I the one that's like off my rocker here because If someone says, I've never done business with you, how can I be convicted of loan for Well, even further than that, when you have someone on the stand saying, No, she did I did it. I I yes, I acknowledge I did it. Well, to me, it's over then. Yeah. You now have the person who did the crime. They're telling you that. I think it's important for the pe listeners to understand that the Julie's description of the trial is exactly correct. Yeah. In the whole transcript of what was a multi-week trial, almost a month. And it was Braddock had had said, Well, he was asked who was involved. Well, you everybody was involved, Todd, Julie, and it sort listed off names. And because he had put your name in a sentence in response to a broad question of who was quote unquote involved, the court's like, that's enough for us. Yeah. I mean, did did that feel like proof beyond a reasonable doubt to you? No. That was crazy to me. But but let's back it up though, because you know, when this started. Todd, you were under investigation. And Julie was not. Well, let me tell you, let me get you there. Yeah. How the government works. Julie was never mentioned in any of this from 2012 up to 2017. My attorneys was called down to the Northern District of Georgia to meet with Tommy Krepp and Annalise Peters. The prosecutors. The prosecutors. And but when the meeting was over, Tommy Krepp said, Right now, we're focusing on Mr. Chrisley. But if he doesn't wish to cooperate, we can expand this investigation to include his wife, his mother, and his children. So to be clear, prosecutors say we're interested in you. But if you don't play ball, we want your wife and your family to go to jail. That's right. And I think that people cannot comprehend that that is actually a common tactic that prosecutors use all the time. I remember them saying, I remember Tommy Krepp saying to Chris when they had a a conference call, he said, all we have to do to take the to take the family down is to take the one at the top. If we remove Mr. Chris Lee. And his exact words were, if we take Mr. Chrisley, who's at the top of this pyramid, out, the rest will fall. How did when they made that statement about it's okay if we don't get you to play ball, we'll go after Julie, when you talked about that with your lawyers, did they give you a sense like, that's just the way it is? Yeah, they said that they said that's normal. They said that's how they do. I said, How is that normal? How have how have we normalized in this country that kind of behavior? And I remember them saying to Julie that, you know, you know, if you if if your husband pleads guilty, then we'll drop the case against you. And Julie said, I'm not going to do that because I know he didn't do this. And then she ends up getting indicted. But just the entire like bargain. I mean that like hold hold a gun to your wife's head or you plead guilty. That is, you know, that's what happens in North Korea. That's what happens in Iran. But yet we're talking shit about all these other countries. Right. When we're do we're hypocrites. Our country is a hypocrite. Yes. Because we're sitting here talking about North Korea, Russia, China. We're doing the same shit that we're accusing them of. We're just we're covering it up with paper. We're blanking it with paper and saying that well this law right here says that we can do this. If you could talk to Annalise. any those prosecutors today about the Well, I would have to lower my standards. But about that decision to say, about that conversation. What would you say to them? Shame on you. Mm-hmm. Shame on you. But you know, this was you know, listen, I try to analy and Alex knows this about me, I try to analyze every situation and I analyze the person. And I look at Annalise Peters and and I am a shallow person at times. she She was just not an attractive girl. I don't think she was ever attractive her whole life. And I and her parents were not. And I think that she grew up that they looked at their child and said, okay, she's not going to be a beauty. So let's make her brilliant. And I think that they said we're going to send her to law school. She went to law school. She lands a spot through through her dad's connections, I'm sure. I assume that's how it happened. And she goes to the Northern District as a prosecutor, had only been there a couple of years. And she gets this case. Big case. Biggest case they had. You're on TV. Okay. Like that's the TV press conference. Right. She gets this case, and she literally, and I say this about the prisons too with the guards and stuff. When you, you know, when you give someone absolute power, that absolute power corrupts. Yep. And she was corrupted by the power. That she had through the Northern District of being able to take someone down that she would never be allowed to sit in the room with. And and Julie and Todd, you know, now that you understand consequences prosecutors face, like do they face any? No, because I've behavior. And I'm and I'm working on this right now in DC because I and I mean this is not gonna help y'all, but I mean y'all are not gonna be doing crooked shit anyway. you know, I'm working now trying to push. That they lose prosecutorial immunity. Absolutely. Because I don't believe that an attorney, a prosecutor should be able to have that, because what it says to the attorneys is you can lie, cheat, and steal all the crimes that you're that you're punishing someone else for doing. You get immunity for that. But the ri listeners may not know this. So there is an because people ask me all the time why can't I sue the prosecutors? You cannot sue in for anything a prosecutor who has prosecuted you. You can prove that prosecutor lied. You can prove that prosecutor intended to hurt you. Yeah. You can prove that that prosecutor admitted to those things. And yet you can't get a single dollar from that prosecutor. And that's wrong. No. We have I mean people may not like lawsuits, but one reason that s pools are safe and people aren't, you know, construction actions every day. Is because there's liability. Threat of litigation. If you mess something up, you know this is a developer. If your house falls apart and kills a family, then you're in your insurance company, you're gonna have to And so you act accordingly. So when you remove consequences, it gives no incentive for They have no consequences. Make it even more simple. Imagine raising a child with no rules or consequences. That's right. They would be maniacs. They would be horrifying. And that is what we get the power to with prosecutors to put people behind bars. Yes. And I mean in our judge, you know, she was she was over in, I think, DeCab County as a she was a DA. Yeah, as a DA who had done nothing with her career other than sit there. And now her husband, who has now been elevated to a judge there in Georgia. Yeah. And it's all political. Everything is moving chess pieces. The Democrats want when they're in the office, they want to move their judges in. When the Republicans are in the office, we're trying to move our judges in. So it's tit for tat. But at the end of the day, you should not be able to become a seated federal judge or a state judge as far as that matters, unless you have got the credentials to be there. That means how many cases have you tried? How many were of this of this serious nature right here? A prime example with her, she had never tried a financial case. Ours was our attorneys told us that there's an there's attorneys in the federal courthouse that help her, that they do all the research for her, and they give her the ruling before she ever gets it. The world of law clerks. Yes. Yeah. And I'm like, wait a minute, she's the judge. And I remember our attorney sitting there saying to us, you remember that? We were sitting in the cafeteria there in the courthouse, and they said she doesn't understand any kind of financial crime. I remember when we went for our sentencing hearing, Judge Ross was there and Annalise Peters was there. Tommy Krepp, biggest case of his career, does not even show up for the sentencing. Where was he that day, do you know? Well, we have been told that he was told to stay out of the out of the courtroom for fear he was gonna be asked another question that he would be lying to the judge. Wow. So At any rate, I remember Art, who was the other attorney, another attorney that we had to hire to ex to show them that this is this money is not missing, that these banks were paid back. And the FBI agent was on the stand, and Art had figured out that the spreadsheet that he was using to calculate these losses was different than the original spreadsheet. And so it went from thirty six million to seventeen million down to four million. And as soon as it got down to four million, Annalise Peters jumped up. Were you there that day? Yeah. Jumps up. She said, Your Honor, please, she said, and the judge said, I'm done with all this. It's 17 million. She just decided. No proof that the money was ever missing or that it wasn't repaid. None of that. She unilaterally chose a seventeen million dollar number. And you have no recourse to do anything. And it's you are right to be that upset. your case is was just egregious on so many levels, but you had that unfortunate experience of going to prison. Yes. And I want to ask, how universal was the sentiment there that everybody else got screwed to? I mean, when you talk to them, would you hear similar stories about not to your level, but like we had a corrupt judge, we had a bad prosecutor, my defense attorney didn't do anything. I mean I I I assume that's pretty Well it's it it is the com it it is more common than not for me. Right. I will say that I had some guys there that said, no, they got me. They got me. I own it. Yeah. Yeah, I did. But then I had others that would be in the in the law library working on their stuff and I would say, you know, what what are you here for? And they would tell me and they'd say, I've researched your case. Remember me having a legal call with you one time. Yeah. And I said, These two guys that are here are former attorneys. That are saying something's not right with our case. They've pulled it and they've read it. Like, that seems nuts. This can't happen. And I remember attorneys that were that were incarcerated coming to me and saying something's not right here. Something's not right. I mean So yes, a lot of them there feel that way. Did did that at some point you both have such optimism? You're such you're you know, you strengthen your faith. Were there times in the process, either before prison or during, where you questioned that faith, where you felt like I can't overcome this. I know that when the when the verdict came in, I think that was probably our lowest point. Yes. Because at that point You thought it was over. We thought it was over. I saw and I remember I don't think Julie remembers when I first visited you. I I came, we had an interview in your office, that front room in the house, and I saw you for about thirty seconds and you looked like Death warmed over. And your family had died. Yes. Yeah. It was I can tell you Julie and I were We went to bed that first night. After after the night. After this. We went to bed that first night and we both prayed that God would let us die or He would take us in our sleep. I'm so sorry. And when we got up that next morning, I remember saying to her, We woke up because God's not finished with us. Mm-hmm. And we got down on our kneeling bench at our bed and we prayed. And we said, Lord, we don't know what the future holds for us. And we saddled up with you. And I know that I wore Alex out. I mean I would think I would think of something else. I I'd call him and I'd say and I I know that I wasn't even in the room when Alex answered the phone, but I could see him looking at his phone not again today. but I had so much information up here that I had to get it out. And I specifically remember after we were found guilty, we had to go upstairs in the courtroom. house and we had to be tethered, you know, have the ankle monitor put on. And in the middle of summer where you can't get in the pole. and I remember one of my attorneys coming over to me and he said Just keep paying your attorneys. No. That's what he told me. No, no, that's no, that's not that's what he told your mother, but he told me, It's okay. You're gonna be okay. You're going to a white collar prison. I remember him saying that to me. What did you think at that moment when he said that? You know what? I was so broken that I can't even tell you. I mean, from from that that trial that was what, right at three weeks, I remember I had A few dress suits that I had ta taken with me. and by the time that the last day They were falling off. I literally I had one pair of pants because the pants I literally could button them, everything, and they would fall down. And I had never in my life been in a position where I couldn't eat. Like I physically She couldn't smoke for the first time I knew what someone that that had an eating disorder felt like because of stress. physically could not if I tried to eat something, I would get sick. Yeah. It was that it it so affected me that way. And the body keeps the score. Yes, yes. It knew. And I remember having to be very firm with her and saying, stop it. Our children are watching how we handle this. Yeah. We have to show them that if anything like this ever happens in their life, how they go to fight it. Well can we talk about your kids a little bit? Because I mean I think there's there's your little your your kids who are younger, Chloe and Grayson, and then there's Savannah. The Chloe the the spec the sides of the coin. But with the younger kids, what did you tell them? When did you tell them? We told them that bad things that bad things happen to good people and that they got it wrong, but mommy and daddy are gonna have to go away for a little while, but that we're gonna continue to fight and that we'll be back. We'll be home. Mm-hmm And you'll get to see us. You know, we had them in counseling. Yeah. They were in counseling. And to this day they're in counseling. I mean, honestly. If I think about the people think about the families though that this happens to that don't have the resources. Right. Right. And and it's not just when you indict someone, you're not just indicting that person. You're indicting everybody. Everybody's The whole thing. Everybody who everybody. That's right. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. And then I want to talk about Savannah because so often when people are accused of a crime, the advice is to stay quiet, not just to the person who's accused, but to their family. And they and people heed that advice. Yes. Savannah did not. And that's why she went to bat. But that's one of the reasons why this system has been allowed to get by with it for so long. Completely agree with you. When you s the the the scripture tells you that I will shed light where there is darkness. The only way to shed light where there is darkness is to bring a focus on it. And so until you like with this podcast here, I'm grateful to God that we have that we have an attorney like Alex and with Zach. but I deal with people every day in prison and I go through their their files and I look at their charges and I look at why that they've not received the proper FSA or the proper second chance act or they're eligible for compassionate release, but no one's told them this. I didn't have to do that. I had him. Mm-hmm. I would c we would have our legal calls and I would say, Alex, I should be doing this and this should be a Todd, I'm aware. I'm aware. And but I was with so many people that would come to me and ask me, can you ask your attorney this? And here I was, God bless him. He was working for so many people at Pensacola that he didn't even know he was working for it. But the system is built for compliance. Yes. It's built for people not to fight. If everybody wanted a criminal trial, they couldn't have enough. That's right. They need people to just succumb to the pressure. So I want to go back to that point you were making a minute ago about the feeling of not eating, of just feeling that pressure. If did you identify the kind of the fact that who was targeting you as the people on the other side? I mean, it's the United States government. The full weight of the United States government. Yeah. Was it really embodied by the prosecutors, the court, the whole thing? I mean, did you feel The world. They make you feel that way. They want you to know that it's not Tommy Krepp and Annalise Peters. I am the government. I'm the federal government. United States of America. I remember when the indictment came down and it said the United States of America versus Todd Todd and Julie Christie. I was I felt so ashamed, right? So victimized. Because we had already been victimized by Mark. all those years and never knew it. Right. From bugging our homes to putting hidden cameras in our home to stealing, you know, from one account to the next. Yeah. You know, we had already been victimized. And so we already had PTSD from that. But then to see a country, a government come after us that I had paid tens of millions of dollars in income taxes to and I'm a country you love. Right. Yeah. I'm keeping you my taxes for you to destroy me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I felt like I'm paying Your salary for you to try to destroy my family. And I remember the judge, she's retired now. She was the first that did our bond. Do you remember she was the only one that that through the whole thing outside of the judge that's through all the evidence said that it was obtained illegally or whatever? Anon. Judge Anon, who was a wonderful man. He was a wonderful magistrate judge there and very knowledgeable and took the time to listen. He was a great judge. But this judge that did our bond was such a class act. Because I remember Tommy Krepp and Annalise Peters standing up and saying, Your Honor, they have access to millions. We don't even know how much they have at this point. We would ask that the bond be set at a million dollars apiece or what some stupid number. And that their passports be surrendered and that they have to go through us to approve what they spend and and on and on and on. And the judge said. But didn't they have access to all this money when y'all was investigating back in 2012? The last decade. Yeah. And they he said, and and she said, and they didn't go anywhere then. And sh the judge looked over at us and she said, Mr. Morris, what are your clients? What are you comfortable with? Yeah. And he said, 100,000 apiece. And she he and Bruce looked down at me and Julie and I said, Give them what they want. And I would have said, if it'd have been a million, we'd have been fine with that. But the judge said, she said, Well, can we at least get 250? And the judge said, It's a hundred thousand. And keep in mind, probation, who had interviewed us, had come in and was sitting there and recommended no bond. Recommended no bind. But it's such a great example where the prosecutors would make up a story. Yeah. Our story is you guys are gonna flee the country. Right. And so we're gonna make it more sexy, more interesting, more make you sound more dangerous. They got no reason for it. No. It's just a selling. But look at when we were con when the conviction came up. I know. One of Annalise Peters and Tommy Cripp said we asked for immediate remand remand. I mean They wanted us to go to jail that day. Right. They wanted us to go to jail that day. She'd even referenced I don't even know that you know that she referenced that in the re my resentencing hearing. That she gave us bond. Yeah. Well now she did, but and she was and she was right with what she said to me. Yeah. 'Cause she reiterated what that judge who initially gave us our bond said. She said when he stood and he said, Your Honor, they have even more reason to flee today. They've got resources, they've got access to private planes, they've got access to this, to this, this. She said the same access that they've had this whole time that they've been on bond. Yep. She says, I want thirty minutes, and she says no and she says, and I'll come back out and render my rolling. Came back out, she says, I'm going to they're going to remain on bond. They will have their ankle monitor. And then and then he complained that the home we had was too large and the property was too large. And he wanted the ankle monitor to be fixed to where we could I could only walk within a hundred feet of the house. Yeah. my because the property was too big. Can't use your whole lawn. Something terrible might happen. And then she said I'm not doing that. okay. But the fact that they would ask. Right. Yeah, that tells you who they are. Do you think that they believe the bullshit that they've No. I think you don't you don't believe it or you don't have a need to make up all the things they made up. So why do you think they do it? I think it was for the conviction rate. They needed our conviction in order for them to get out of the United the US attorney's office and land in a large law firm to where they can bill six hundred, a thousand dollars an hour. versus making a hundred thousand or one hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year, whatever they were making. Yeah, she didn't make that no. but and he ain't either. He went to the FDIC. Now isn't that where you want to go when you've spent your whole life as a criminal prosecutor, you end up at the FDIC reviewing contracts. No. Now what does that say there that a law firm in Atlanta after that conviction would not pick them up? Amy, I I know this is a subject you care about. Well I think you know, I think a lot of people have no idea that almost all federal prosecutors will leave the DOJ and go into private practice. Right. And they need a job. They need a track record. Relationships. That's right. And they build those while they're at DOJ. That's right. And do you think that influences how they act? Absolutely. They still work within the system, they know it's broken and they know people are going to prison over it and they won't do anything. Alex, how do fix it? Yeah, look, I think consequences matter. I think speaking out matters. I think being vocal, what you're doing, what y'all have done really matters. I mean, I think to sort of briefly we haven't talked about the pardons, but I think something about what President Trump has done in the pardon process, I think is breaking. I mean, people on on the other side don't like it for all sorts of reasons, but it's breaking that just assumption that we can't question it. Uh-huh. Right. We need to question it. Well, I but here's the thing, and I'll say this because it needs to be said. President Trump had he not gone through what he went through wouldn't know either. Wouldn't know either. Right. Yeah. I think that for for me, and speaking solely for me, I don't know how we have been so vocal about everything and we have exposed so much. So much. There would not be a federal investigation right now into our case if had we not had Savannah not done what she's doing. And so, you know, when we got when we got that information, I think for me that was like, okay, okay. And then I got called to DC and I had a meeting there. And and I was told, yeah, there's more to your situation. Now one of the things I'll say is looking at other districts, I mean, even under this administration, there are cases like this happening. We have a couple of crazy cases that I could tell you about where It's just completely unjust. It's still happening because it's all balkanized, right? Every office is its own little throne, its own little kingdom. Absolutely. Do you think that will ever be broken? I think that the only way that it's broken is if you have people like you that's part 'cause you are part of that club. You're an attorney. So you are part of those those closed door yeah conversations. And until you do exactly what she just said, don't be a party to that morality bankruptcy that is going on within the judicial system. You have to be able to stand up and say, I'm gonna do the right thing. And the right thing, I mean, you know, you've got North Carolina, which I think North Carolina's a bad one. I think North Carolina's a bad one. They've got cases there's a case there right now that I'm looking to. you know, you've got these these trustees are that take over these people's money and they bilk it and they ru they they steal every day. It's literally A legalized form of theft. Of the Yeah, so receiver receiver takeover. Well, it happens all the time. It happens all the time. There was another defendant who has lost his whole real estate empire. Yes. Through receivership. Yes. And what we don't think about in these situations is dozens of people lose their jobs. Mm-hmm. Investors lose their life savings. And there's there can be no conviction, no judgment, and that that's still the consequence. But here's the thing greed. Yeah. is the driving factor of everything that is evil. Yeah. Well fear it's greed and fear. Yeah. But you get you you you don't feel the fear until you had the greed that got you to a place to where now shit. Do I lose it? Yeah. That's it. And when you go to prison for twenty eight months and you have a three hundred and sixty dollar a month commissary spend that you can use, that you wear the same uniform as everyone else. You hit get the same number of minutes. When you, when it's all of that, you know, we just had a podcast with Savannah today to where we talked about how we were able to come back out and step right back into our life. You were. Yeah. That doesn't happen to maybe 1% of the population. No. So less than that, probably. You know, so for me, I looked at that 28 months and said, God, use me. Yeah. Use me in a way that is going to shed light where there is darkness. Use me in a way to where I can be a voice for the voiceless. Use me in a way that changes the system. And until we I'm not gonna shut up. I'm gonna keep talking. I know that. And you know, I'm going to continue to expose. But one of the things that strikes me both, and I don't think I've ever told told you this, both of you, I'm just shocked that during the case, after the case, as you were fighting, you know, you're still filming the show. Yes. But they're not talking about. This. The network did not want to touch it. And is that a form of just sort of corporate cowardice? Yes, yes. Because it has a platform. You can be loud. Yeah. But you'd think that somebody else would be like, Man, I'm gonna amplify that, but they don't. Well, you understand that I remember we were driving to Atlanta to st go to trial. Right. Right? And on the way, the network, they're blowing me up with production network because We were working on a photo shoot for the next season that never happened. But they were trying to nail down looks and getting stylists together and all this stuff. And literally we're driving to Atlanta to fighting for our life. Yeah, fighting for our life. It was like it didn't exist. But here's the thing, here's the irony of it is that when we came home, we were negoti I was negotiating new contracts. coming out of the prison gate with my agents on the phone going back and forth because we filmed as soon as we pulled into the garage. Yeah. but the network came back to us three months later after that when it came time to re to renegotiate again and she's the CEO now and she said, first of all I want to apologize to you. wow. I want to apologize to you and the family. We should have never laid the cameras down. No, should not have Had we been we had the ability to be that light. And we because it wasn't me, Mr. Chrissy. I remember where I was when this happened and the decision was made that the show was going to be canceled. I'm like, what is going on? It's the biggest show that we have. Right. What is going on? And I remember that being so vividly, she says, but I'm now in that position to where I can tell you to come home. And she said, this should have never happened. I want to apologize to you. She said, Where do we go from here? And I said, Thank you. Thank you so much. I said, Where me and my wife and our family go is probably different than where you want to go. I said, I want a life of peace. And I says, and I have my at my work that I'm doing with prison right now. And I said, and I feel like that. God has given me a call in that I need to answer to. And I said, I'm not interested in shooting any show that is not going to be 100% transparent, that is not going to the good, the bad, and the ugly that goes on in our life. It goes on in every family's life. Every family's life. Maybe not to the six years, but most We hope not. We hope not. You know, I like to say that listen, it happens in everyone's family. Mine just looks better. you know, I want I want honesty, I want transparency. And I think that goes back to what you said, how do we fix it? Because I think what people don't understand too, like you were you touched on, the entire time that we filmed, we were living a hellish nightmare behind the scenes. I mean so a every time and I there's just something in me, every time somebody says, my god, y'all brought this so much joy and we laughed and we did this and behind the scenes We were falling apart. We especially were dying inside. Yes. You know When I walked through the doors of that prison, it was almost like I could breathe for the first time in ten fifty ten years or more. It was a side relief because it was this was it. I knew what I was facing. I knew what the worst case scenario I didn't even know that I I really didn't know what I was facing because nobody explained to me what I was facing before I went in. so I didn't really know how long I was gonna be there. but I knew there was an end. Yeah. I knew I had an outdate and I knew all that was behind us. And so for the first time I could really breathe. And that sounds so crazy to even say that I left this life that to everyone in the world was this perfect, beautiful life, and there was so much beauty and to it. But we were dealing with all this on the other side. And you know, you had to w I didn't have to worry about looking down and seeing, you know, Bruce's number coming up or Steve's or Chris or whoever. You know, Bill and all the other people that we were had had hired for this, I didn't have to see those numbers pop up anymore because every time they popped up on the screen, the anxiety was just overflowing. A large part of the crime that they accused you of had to do with the time of the mortgage collapse. seven eight. That started a huge period of refinancing for folks who were developing, having to keep your lines open 'cause you weren't being able to sell what you were. Right. There were no indictments. on Wall Street. All the folks who had packaged these loans, set it up, not a single person was indicted, let alone got got lots of jail time. They went after everybody else. At some point do you feel like it's just sort of a game of who we can kind of hit. Yep. Yep. Yes. I think it's just throwing it against the wall, seeing what sticks. And you know, and I can remember 'cause you know, I was I didn't run the company. I was never digging. but I remember when we found out that six million dollars was gone. Yeah. I remember Donna Cash sitting down then that was Mark's former administrator, sitting down with us and and with our attorney, Hayden Pace at the time. kind of taking him through everything that Mark had done. And Mark had taken these loans and extended them out for these development deals. And he would take a draw off of them for the construction work, but then come to find out the construction work had not been done. Had not been done. And I remember us having him on tape acknowledging that he had done this, but that if if the Chris's go to the if the Chrissy try to prosecute me, it's gonna be in the press They care more about their name than I do. So when you're dealing with someone, Alex, that has no concern about their own character, no shame, that we know that, or he wouldn't have said the things that he said in court during the trial. Yeah. And so because I'm clean. But even that act ain't clean. Yeah. So This is the man who admitted to stealing six million dollars and the government said, We don't think you need to go to jail for a single day. That's a that's exactly right. He currently has no criminal record, although he's admitted under oath to stealing what somewhere in the neighborhood of six. And lying on his own. Lying on his own taxes on his own law. And is still practicing real estate in the state of Florida. Wow. When the law says that if you if you commit a financial crime, that is grounds to lose your license. They should have said unless the government thinks it's okay because they want to catch a bigger fish. Right. And that is and that is how so many federal cases are built, correct? Yes. Are they on cooperators? I say that with pick and choose. Yeah. Do you know that in our case that you have a three two, now for those that don't know what a three two is, it's a witness statement. Do you know that Mark Braditt was allowed to change his witness statement twenty seven times? Now, if somebody came to me and said I had to change my truth twenty seven times in the corporate world I'd say It's not the truth. Yeah, it's not the truth. Right. Yeah. And then also And I mean then for him to say that he slept with me one time. No one has ever had no one has ever slept with me one time. I have been good at a lot of things and that I'm good at and you would have had more than once. my god. Something also about these three twos, the FBI three twos, the reports of FBI memoranda. oftentimes these FBI interviews that are memorialized in three or twos are not recorded. We walk around with the courts recording devices. Do you know that I did not realize and that the reason that these prosecutors do not record these things is because they're doing unethical shit in there. Yes. And leading the witness. And leading the witness. And what gets put down on paper is not what was said. Because do you understand that there that they interviewed, I think like 50 people that they got 302s from. None of them were used except for Mark Braddock's. And I remember one from this lady when I called her and I said, Did you say this? Because Patty, this is not true. She said, I ain't never said that. And she said, I said, Will you go on she said, I will go on record. Matter of fact, I'm gonna go down there tomorrow. And that woman stood by her word and she said, put me on the stand. She said, because what you wrote is a lie. And and again, the people who don't know, you come at us before the day you get targeted, you have no idea that this whole system of lies, of targeting who they want, of picking and choosing the winners and the bad guys, you don't know any of that exists. That's right. No. They could spend they could spend years putting all of this together and don't know what's happening in the background. If we had not signed to extend the statute of limitations that was expiring within four days, we would have never had a case brought against us. But you didn't know any better, right? No. We went off of not listening and paying attention to the one attorney that we hired by a referral who told us, you need to go ahead and just sign this. There's nothing gonna come out of it. Yeah. If you don't Because we were told if we all sign it, they're going to die. They're gonna die. And otherwise we can convince them not to if you give them the but of course they wouldn't have invited you to do the action. You gotta take my deal today, it's gone tomorrow. That's right. I mean it is the lowest level of just Yeah. I mean that really is that's it. And I go back to do ever feel did you ever feel like you were you were just caught up in the system and you're like, This is just so dumb. Yes. We felt like when I tell you We felt like for so long that this was an episode of Punk. Yeah. Because it seemed so stupid and so silly. Yeah. And we had a count sitting here saying, You've done nothing wrong. You don't owe tax. I remember waking up one night, and this was a God moment. And I had those several times during this whole process, and she will tell you that God physically woke me up. I remember being woke I I woke up one night. It was like two o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning, and it's like God said in my dream, pull the seven C's checkstubs check stubs. Because when we were paid through when we were paid, it's is so archaic, but we were actually given a check every week. Okay. Each person, loan out company, whatever. We were given a check every week, and you had your pay stub that was attached to it. And you know, they would the production company out in LA. They would reconcile everything and they would send it to our accountants. God said to me in my dream, pull the reconciliation for seven C's. Because keep in mind the Georgia Department of Revenue was saying we didn't pay tax. I got up in the middle of the night, got my laptop out, and she woke up and said, What are you doing? I said, Go back to sleep. And I pulled in, I put this girl's name who did the reconciliation out there for years, put her name in. And it pulled up all these reconciliations for years. We were on television for 10 years. And I started pulling them. And I remember on I looked at the first one, I'm like, because I didn't know what I was looking for. Right. And I'm looking, I'm like, what am I supposed to find? What am I supposed to find? Okay, yeah, we made this much money. Then I got the next and then I got to one from my mother. And it said, Georgia withholding. Georgia withholding. I went back and looked at all of ours and it had Georgia withholding them. Anytime we filmed in Georgia, yeah. So I remember getting up that morning or you know, going through that, and then she got up to take the kids to school that morning, and I said, I got They lied. They know they're lying. Look at this. And I I had the laptop and she's looking, I said, Right there's where they held withheld the tax. How could we owe something if they withheld it? And I remember calling Chris and saying, Did you check your email? And he said, No. I said, pull it up. He said, What am I looking for? I said, just open the attachments. And I had sent him all ten years that had been sent to the accountant. He's looking, he said, What am I looking for? Where'd you get this? It's in your email. I said, It's in my emails that y'all have all gone through. And he goes. So they withheld the tax on your mother. Did they with do it did they do it on all of y'all? And I said, every one of us. So the lawyers had that. Yes. And didn't But God woke me up and told me what to do. I sent it within 72 within 72 hours of Chris getting on the phone with the AG, Chris Carr's office, and saying this was a target. This was a target hit. These people never owed taxes. The d department of revenue knew they never owed taxes. Here's the proof they've never owed taxes. Within seventy two hours we had a settlement. He said, I want you to pay that eighty thousand dollars or whatever that they're claiming's you know they went through after they knew we had got them and started denying some deductions. And they got it to eighty thousand dollars. And I remember Mike saying, You're gonna pay us that in a month. Right. Chief Pay that's And on Wednesday, y'all be here in my office. He said, I'm calling the press conference and we're gonna sue the hell out of them. We sued the Georgia Department of Revenue. We got a seven figure settlement from them, and they had and the people that was involved in all this stuff are no longer with the Department of Revenue. They were fired for lying under under oath, all kinds of things. So that was a kind of and and Alex was involved in that. So I know that was a God moment, and you advocated for yourself. Yes. You were part of the defense. I think a lot of people think you answer that question. Absolutely. Todd worked morning, noon, and night. But people understand that's necessary. Lawyers cannot ingest ten years of your life in a few months. That's right. You have to be part of that process. Amy did that with her husband in his case. She found every document. She pointed, you know, pointed the way. Yeah. You can't just let life happen to you. I don't I would be scared to even think about where we would have been had Todd not done what he took. Yeah, for sure. I mean it I mean I think when you think about it. I w And and what Alex just said is the hundred percent the truth. There's no way for Alex to have known every conversation that we had had, what had led up to this, what Mark had done, what we had caught him doing here and there and whatever. There's no way for him to know that just by reading that. It was all up here. Yeah. And i I I would do such a download on him that Alex would even say, Okay, I've heard enough today. But but I think the key is you have to s again act like a doctor and figure out which questions matter. Yes. Kind of diagnose that okay, I'm hearing this. What am I missing? What am I not? Because you have the information. The lawyer doesn't. And the lawyer too many times the lawyer just says, No, this is the way it is. You listen to me. I'm the lawyer. I know I know what's going on. Well, that happened one time. That happened one time with us. I'm sure I was right. But that happened one time. You remember that when I told him I said, Now let me tell you something. You're not gonna ever tell me. the way you just spoke to me, I said, with what I've paid you. there you go. I said, So tomorrow you and I will reconvene and I says, and I hope you're in a better place. I said, 'cause I'm gonna still be in the same damn place I am. But it's so common for lawyers to take that approach instead of being like, Yeah, I need to work with you to find out to understand But it's the ego. It is. It's the ego. But again, I think it goes back to this case was never really about the money. Well and and because when I went for my For my resentencing, for my when I won the appeal, you won we won the appeal. It was an interesting day. you know, she she had absolutely no she no hesitation about lowering the amount that I was responsible for, but would not take one day off my sentence. As a matter of fact, gave me more because she she's my probation. Your resentencing was something it's a I've been doing this for twenty years, one of the most unjust days I'd ever seen. And what most folks don't know. 'cause wasn't really reported, is we asked for that to be done on video. Yes. Because you were in Lexington. Yes. And for folks who don't know, the process of transferring inmates is horrific. Is horrific. Yes. I mean it takes weeks, the worst conditions, you are literally you, Julie. Julie Chrisly were in leg chains and Arm shackles to your days. Yes. And it doesn't have to be that It doesn't have to be that. We're working on that right now, Chase. No, it does not have to be that way. Judge, when we requested, let's do this via video. She's at a BOP facility. They can video chat there. Judge said no. This is the same woman who can't remember to wear shoes in a court. Now, first of all, it was approved, remember? it was approved. The clerk said we look forward to seeing you on Zoom on this date. Yeah. Then it was come back then it came back and said no she was denied. But that's casual inhumanity of the system for fifty two days I was gone locked in real prisons. But that was retaliation against her because the judge couldn't touch Savannah. Right. Yeah. Savannah had spoken at the RNC right and the only way that sh the judge could attack Savannah was to attack her mother. Let's talk talk about Savannah for a minute because Savannah was she fought so hard. Yes, she was very invoked. It was incredible. And it it did result in things like you being punished for absolutely no reason. Yes. What did you know Savannah would would fight so hard? Yeah. I I know who we raised. Mm-hmm. And I know what kind of what kind of the fight she's had in her spirit her whole life. so I never had questions about how long she was gonna fight. I never as a father want my child to be in a position where they have to fight for my honor. So that's something that we will carry for the rest of our life because for twenty eight months, because of people we were affiliated with, my daughter had to put her life on hold for twenty eight months to fight to clear up an injustice that had occurred. But I'm sure it was a testament to the love that she had for me. And I know that I know that it killed Julie. I mean I know talking to you in jail. You hated that she was putting her life on hold for you. Yes. Yes. Yes. But at the same time, the same way that this whole process brought you to a different place. It brought her to a different place. Absolutely. Absolutely absolutely. Listen, I said to her yesterday when Savannah and I were talking, because you know it was Mother's Day and we were all at the house and Savannah had cooked. And I said, But your life, it took us going through what we went through for you to find your own s for your your own purpose. That's right. And so if if Me giving up twenty eight months of my life gave my child her purpose in life, I'd do it today. Yep. I'd do it today. I don't want to. But I hope they find it on their own. Especially not right now. It's getting warm. We've we've taken a ton of your time. I want you to end these th with this question. Look into that camera and I want you to tell the Julie Christly of ten years ago when you first found out you were being targeted, how she did. What would you tell her? Mm. Mm mm mm. I would say you're stronger than you ever dreamed that you could be. Amen. Todd? I think that's what would you tell the Todd Christly of twenty seventeen or twenty twelve when you first heard that you're gonna be okay, that ninety-five percent of all the things that we worry about never come to fruition anyway. although this happened, what happened was bad, we survived it. it was nowhere near as bad as what so many hundreds of thousands of people go through every day. What we went through was nowhere near compared to what so many of them have gone through. and I would say to never give up. always believed to have a close have a have a close relationship with Christ and you know You have to focus on your faith, not the fear. And because I was able to stay focused on my faith, the fear just subsided. Because you're in a place in your life at that point where you have to drop your hands and surrender. And God met me at that moment that I surrendered. And when I surrendered that day, Alex, it was the greatest level of peace that I've ever had in my life. And that was behind bars. That my b wasn't behind bars, but I was at a camp that I couldn't leave. I could have left, but that would have been something else. but it was a self-surrender. Yeah. It was a self-surrender to my wordself. And so I would say to the tide then, I probably wouldn't have worn some of the things that I wore. but other than that, I would have picked better attorneys. I was gonna say. Find the right person. Interview, interview, interview your attorneys. And I'll finish that the faith point comes through here. And I think people don't when you're in entertainment and you're a celebrity and you're on TV and you have faith, I think it's very easy for for people to believe that it's an act. For it to believe that it's not real. And so I I do want to end this by saying I think watching the two of you and your entire family walk through this for years, it's taught me a lot about faith. It's it's been such a genuine, real faith in the family, faith in God, faith in Christ. And you are are such a good example for folks who know you and see you of what that means. Because nobody's perfect. You know you both know how unimperfect each of you are. Absolutely. But for those of you watching. For those of you watching though, even when Todd says things like that, he is an incredible father. And I think You're an incredible mother. Thank you. And the two of you walked this with grace that very few people on the planet could have. And I I think people need to know that's not just fake. That's not just TV, that is real. Well it goes back to what I said earlier. You know, what was meant to harm you will be used to prosper you. And I can tell you that we have been redeemed. We have we have been restored. Our finances have been restored. our our relationships that mattered have been restored. and I just anyone who anyone who questions faith in general or questions the Bible and the scripture, I'm living, I'm a walking testament to Joseph's story. I'm living a Joseph life. I went from the prison to the palace. Well, let's end on that note. You go get accountability changed. Let us sue prosecutors. Sounds good. That plan works great for me, Alex. We'll all be better off. It's got a room full of fighters. Thank you all. Thank you. Yes, thank you. This is the Target Podcast. Every week we're going to sit down with someone who's been in the crosshairs of an investigation, sometimes federal, sometimes state. People have been indicted, exonerated in some cases, some who've been pardoned. Some who've been convicted, and some who've been acquitted. This isn't about guilt or innocence. It's about what they wish they'd known on day one. Every single one of the people we're going to talk to has a day one story. That's because most people don't understand how this system works until they're standing inside of it.