Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Accused CHILD sex perv Ghislaine Maxwell to walk free?

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Accused CHILD sex perv Ghislaine Maxwell to walk free? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours we
0:15
Speaker 1: learned there is a move of foot for the so
0:19
Speaker 1: called madam of Jeffrey Epstein, known child sex trafficker, to
0:25
Speaker 1: get sprung from jail. That's right, She says, she is
0:30
Speaker 1: being humiliated by wearing jail clothing and they're not letting
0:33
Speaker 1: her adhere to her vegan diet. Crime Stories with Nancy
0:45
Speaker 1: Grace campaign is underway to get Gilaine Maxwell out of jail.
0:56
Speaker 1: Operation GGO Get Gelayne Out was started by family friend
1:01
Speaker 1: Brian Bashram. He claims that Maxwell's human rights are being violated,
1:05
Speaker 1: that she is forced to wear paper clothing with no
1:08
Speaker 1: broad due to the risk of suicide. He also claims
1:11
Speaker 1: that sent her incarceration, Maxwell, a vegan, has dropped twenty
1:15
Speaker 1: five pounds due to improper diet. Basham claims that when
1:18
Speaker 1: Maxwell complained about losing so much weight, prison officials removed
1:21
Speaker 1: her skills to stop her from weighing herself. He says
1:24
Speaker 1: that prison guards have stopped talking to Maxwell while she
1:27
Speaker 1: spends her days isolated in a nine foot by seven
1:29
Speaker 1: foot cell. Basham says that isolation is being extended to
1:33
Speaker 1: her mail as well. He claims that family letters are
1:36
Speaker 1: being vindictively not given to her. Brian Bashram says he
1:40
Speaker 1: finds an appalling that Maxwell was still in custody when
1:42
Speaker 1: other sex offenders like Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby were
1:45
Speaker 1: granted bail. Maxwell has denied all six counts relating to
1:49
Speaker 1: child sex trafficking, procurement, and perjury. You're hearing our friend
1:53
Speaker 1: Dave Mack from Crime online dot com. Maybe it has
1:55
Speaker 1: something to do with Weinstein's victims being adult as a
2:00
Speaker 1: those to Epstein and Gil and Maxwell's alleged victims being
2:04
Speaker 1: children at the time they were sex traffic. Again. I'm
2:07
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, and I want to thank you for being
2:09
Speaker 1: with us this as Operation GGO get Gill and Maxwell
2:15
Speaker 1: out of jail is underway, Will it happen? Joining me
2:19
Speaker 1: an I'll star panel to break you down and put
2:21
Speaker 1: it back together again. First of all, high profile lawyer
2:24
Speaker 1: out of Seattle joining me, Trial lawyer Ann Bremner, former
2:29
Speaker 1: prosecutor also with me, and renowned New York psychologists joining
2:33
Speaker 1: me from Manhattan. Karen Start at Karen Stark dot com.
2:37
Speaker 1: That's Karen with a se former special agent with the FBI.
2:40
Speaker 1: Screen writer on Criminal Minds, Bobby Chicone also with me
2:46
Speaker 1: Melissa Crown, an investigative journalist and author. Melissa is so
2:50
Speaker 1: great to have you with us. Melissa also the author
2:54
Speaker 1: of a brand new book about Epstein and an upcoming
2:58
Speaker 1: Epstein book called Epstein Ink. Well, Lissa Cronin, what do
3:02
Speaker 1: you make of the news that there is a movement
3:04
Speaker 1: underfoot to have Gill and Maxwell sprung from jail? So
3:09
Speaker 1: this man, Brian Bosham said that he finds it appalling
3:13
Speaker 1: how she's being treated in prison, and anyone who knows
3:15
Speaker 1: anything about this case finds it appalling that someone would
3:19
Speaker 1: think there was any chance this woman should be released.
3:23
Speaker 1: It's just another example of how delusional she is. I mean,
3:26
Speaker 1: Epstein himself was not released on bond with all of
3:31
Speaker 1: the claims made against him. She's part and parcel of
3:34
Speaker 1: all those claims. I think part of it has to
3:36
Speaker 1: do with that sweetheart deal he got down in Palm
3:39
Speaker 1: Beach when he basically had house or rest for part
3:43
Speaker 1: of the day and could go in and out of
3:45
Speaker 1: the jail at his will. There was a parade of
3:48
Speaker 1: young girls going in and out of his office when
3:50
Speaker 1: he was on day passes from the jail. So I'm
3:54
Speaker 1: sure that they're concerned Gill and Maxwell will either take
3:59
Speaker 1: off or end up dead if she is released. What
4:04
Speaker 1: do you make of her claims that she is being
4:07
Speaker 1: let me just say, single out for bad treatment. Like
4:10
Speaker 1: I said before, I think she's totally delusional because she
4:15
Speaker 1: just has to realize that she might have gotten away
4:17
Speaker 1: with it for years so far, but now the hand
4:20
Speaker 1: of justice has come down on her and she's not
4:22
Speaker 1: getting away with it. She's not going to get special treatment,
4:25
Speaker 1: she's not going to get her contour and her vegan diet.
4:28
Speaker 1: She just has to wake up to the reality that
4:30
Speaker 1: her time has come and she's going to have to
4:32
Speaker 1: pay for what she did. What do you who is
4:34
Speaker 1: Brian Besham. I only know that he is a family
4:38
Speaker 1: friend of Gil and Maxwell, who is the one reporting
4:42
Speaker 1: from behind jail house walls that she has lost so
4:44
Speaker 1: much weight that her skills were taken away. I've got
4:47
Speaker 1: news for everybody. I don't think inmates have scales in
4:52
Speaker 1: their jail cells. That's a lot of bs. That's a
4:55
Speaker 1: technical legal term. But I don't think that you and Bremner.
4:59
Speaker 1: You're the high profile lawyer out of Seattle. I have
5:02
Speaker 1: never once in all the jails I've ever been in
5:06
Speaker 1: seen an inmate with a set of scales, great minds,
5:09
Speaker 1: single ag nancy. That's the first thing I thought. It
5:11
Speaker 1: was like, I've never heard of an inmate having skills
5:14
Speaker 1: in their cell and then having them taken away because
5:15
Speaker 1: they're losing weight. I mean that just isnering true. And
5:19
Speaker 1: if it's true, it's the first what a big fat lie?
5:24
Speaker 1: Now isn't it true? And Bremner a former prosecutor but
5:28
Speaker 1: now civil and defense lawyer, isn't it true? And then
5:33
Speaker 1: had the close of every felony case, the jury is
5:37
Speaker 1: instructed by the judge that when a person, a witness,
5:43
Speaker 1: being a defendant, a cop, doesn't matter, is caught lying
5:48
Speaker 1: under oath, even if it's about something small, the jury
5:52
Speaker 1: will then have the decision the opportunity if they wish
5:57
Speaker 1: to discount all that witnesses testimony in toto in total,
6:03
Speaker 1: if that witness is caught lying. Would you agree or
6:05
Speaker 1: disagree that that is the state of the law. I
6:07
Speaker 1: agree completely, it's false and one false and all. It's
6:10
Speaker 1: the Latin term I think is falsest and union falsest employm. Well,
6:14
Speaker 1: you're up in the game throwing your Latin phrase it's
6:16
Speaker 1: at me. So let me break it down. If this
6:20
Speaker 1: is being reported by this so called family friend that
6:24
Speaker 1: her scale has been taken out of her jail, so
6:27
Speaker 1: there is no way in Hubl an inmate and a
6:31
Speaker 1: high security CI Correctional institute is going to have a scale.
6:36
Speaker 1: It'll take about a New York minute for one of
6:38
Speaker 1: those inmates to pick that up and bash a warden,
6:42
Speaker 1: a trustee or another inmate right in the skull and
6:45
Speaker 1: kill them right there with the scales. Okay, So that's BS.
6:52
Speaker 1: And if he's lying about that, or someone is lying
6:54
Speaker 1: about that, then why should I believe any of this? BS? No,
6:58
Speaker 1: I completely agree. I'm not going to use the line again.
7:00
Speaker 1: But you can't believe anything they say. I mean, that
7:02
Speaker 1: is so preposterous. I mean, and she can't wear a
7:04
Speaker 1: broad but she can have a scale. You know, I
7:06
Speaker 1: don't get it. So we're also here, you know here
7:09
Speaker 1: because Bobby count I knew that wouldn't take long. Go ahead, Bobby,
7:13
Speaker 1: I mean this so called I mean, the so called friends,
7:15
Speaker 1: family friend that he's being described. I mean, I think
7:18
Speaker 1: he's also been distribed as a PR professional, so I
7:22
Speaker 1: think that he might be one of these crisis management
7:25
Speaker 1: guys that's brought in to start this campaign, and they're
7:28
Speaker 1: calling it a campaign as it's a grassroots movement of
7:32
Speaker 1: people that want her out, when in all probability, she's
7:36
Speaker 1: paying for this service. She's paying probably for this family
7:39
Speaker 1: friends pr professional to kind of start this whole movement
7:43
Speaker 1: if you will, And I don't think there's a whole
7:45
Speaker 1: bunch of people behind this movement. Well you know, let
7:49
Speaker 1: me you're right number one. Number two question back to
7:54
Speaker 1: you and everybody pipe in if you know the answer.
7:58
Speaker 1: All I believe that when you have a religious preference
8:01
Speaker 1: behind bars, that in especially federal jails, that is respected.
8:09
Speaker 1: That's right. So you know, whether you're Jewish or am
8:15
Speaker 1: I hearing Karen Stark? Yes, you are, Okay, Karen Stark says,
8:19
Speaker 1: when were you in a CI Curious? I did happen
8:22
Speaker 1: to know somebody who's in federal prison, who was in
8:25
Speaker 1: federal prison? And they respect your religious beliefs if you
8:31
Speaker 1: have if you're if you're Orthodox Jewish, then you are
8:36
Speaker 1: allowed to, you know, not pay attention to the worlds
8:41
Speaker 1: on Saturday. You don't get released, but they do respect that.
8:44
Speaker 1: They respect the fact that you need kosher food things
8:47
Speaker 1: like that, which makes it all the more difficult for
8:50
Speaker 1: me to believe that her v Of course, now it's
8:53
Speaker 1: not a religion being vegan, So therein may lay the
8:57
Speaker 1: difference time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, right now there
9:12
Speaker 1: is a move of foot to get Gillan Maxwell released
9:16
Speaker 1: from behind bars, but we've already caught her spokesperson, if
9:20
Speaker 1: that's who started it. In one line regarding her life
9:23
Speaker 1: behind bars, she is saying that she is being single
9:26
Speaker 1: out and because of vindictive treatment is being heaped upon her.
9:32
Speaker 1: Back to Melissa crona investigative journalists who has already written
9:35
Speaker 1: one book Jeffrey Epstein Dead Men, No Tells, and she
9:39
Speaker 1: has an upcoming book, Epstein Inc. Coming out I believe
9:42
Speaker 1: in November. Melissa, what is that the crux of the
9:46
Speaker 1: movement to get this alleged child sex trafficker out from
9:49
Speaker 1: behind bars? Nancy, It's very important for everyone to understand that,
9:54
Speaker 1: as the said, this is not a family friend. This
9:58
Speaker 1: is a pr professional that has been working for Gawaine
10:01
Speaker 1: for more than ten years. He was actually brought in
10:05
Speaker 1: as a third party on the juffre versus Maxwell lawsuits
10:09
Speaker 1: years ago because the attorneys found emails between Gawayne and
10:14
Speaker 1: this PR company on which he was sced. Now the
10:17
Speaker 1: PR company is called Acuity Reputation and they have offices
10:21
Speaker 1: in London also in Moscow. The founder is on the
10:24
Speaker 1: advisory board of the Moscow International Finance Committee. So that's
10:29
Speaker 1: the whole other threads of people might want to pull
10:31
Speaker 1: on in the coming weeks, But I think it's just
10:34
Speaker 1: a distraction technique. The fact is that day after day,
10:38
Speaker 1: week after weeks, more victims come forward to tell their stories,
10:42
Speaker 1: and she's not going to be able to escape justice
10:44
Speaker 1: this time. Guys. Take a listen to our friend Mola
10:48
Speaker 1: Lingy at CBS News. Listen. She had his money, he
10:53
Speaker 1: had her contacts. They made a great group that way.
10:57
Speaker 1: But Glynn was much more snipe and smart than Apteine
11:01
Speaker 1: ever was. At one point during the deposition, Jeuphrase attorney
11:05
Speaker 1: Cigarette McCauley appeared to ask Maxwell about the now infamous
11:08
Speaker 1: picture of Guffray and the UK's Prince Andrew. Guffray says
11:13
Speaker 1: she had sex with the Prince at Maxwell's London home
11:15
Speaker 1: that night. The Prince has repeatedly denied Juphrase allegations, and
11:19
Speaker 1: Maxwell called you phrase account of the incident an obvious lie.
11:24
Speaker 1: In the deposition, Maxwell said, guy characterized things took place
11:28
Speaker 1: in my bathroom and the bathtub itself the tub is
11:31
Speaker 1: too small for any type of activity whatsoever. Okay, let
11:35
Speaker 1: me understand this. She is claiming that Virginia Roberts Jeffrey's
11:42
Speaker 1: statements are falls because her gilla Maxwell's tub is not
11:45
Speaker 1: big enough to have sex in. Really, because I'm pretty
11:49
Speaker 1: sure if people can have sex in the bathroom on
11:53
Speaker 1: a plane, they can do it in a bathtub. I
11:57
Speaker 1: don't care how big the bathtub or how small the
11:59
Speaker 1: bathtub is. I mean, I'm not an engineer from Georgia
12:02
Speaker 1: Tech or MT, but I can figure that much out.
12:06
Speaker 1: You know, It's very interesting. Bobby Chacone joining me, former
12:10
Speaker 1: special agent FBI, screenwriter Criminal minds what my longtime friend
12:15
Speaker 1: Ricky Kleman over at CBS is saying. Maxwell can't just
12:19
Speaker 1: say Virginia Jeffries is lying, lying, she's lying. You've got
12:24
Speaker 1: to come up with more than that and the size
12:26
Speaker 1: of your bathtub, because there are multiple young girls, not
12:30
Speaker 1: just Virginia Jeffries. That's saying the same thing. Maxwell recruited
12:35
Speaker 1: them sometimes from near the playground at the middle school
12:40
Speaker 1: to give Epstein massages which turned sexual. It's more than
12:45
Speaker 1: just Virginia Jeffries, Bobby Chicone, that's right, Nancy, And actually
12:49
Speaker 1: I did depend Georgia Tech, so I am one of
12:51
Speaker 1: those people who referred to But you know you're right
12:53
Speaker 1: when they can't attack, you know, the basic facts of
12:57
Speaker 1: the case. When you have so many victims coming was
13:00
Speaker 1: telling very similar stories about the recruitment, about the behavior
13:04
Speaker 1: that they were subjected to, you have to start nit
13:06
Speaker 1: picking at different things. That's why they want the names
13:09
Speaker 1: of the victims now publish, so they can harass them.
13:12
Speaker 1: This will be very hostile, very aggressive defense team that
13:16
Speaker 1: Maxwell has. You can see it as far back as
13:18
Speaker 1: this deposition that she gave, how hostile she is, and
13:21
Speaker 1: you can see through their motions now how hostile they're
13:24
Speaker 1: being towards the victims. They have to go after the
13:26
Speaker 1: victims because it's the only thing they have, because they
13:28
Speaker 1: can't attack the facts. But it's still going to be
13:31
Speaker 1: a very difficult task. Maybe one victim can be impeached,
13:36
Speaker 1: but when you've got multiple victims separated in time and space,
13:40
Speaker 1: all saying the same thing, it's going to be much
13:43
Speaker 1: more difficult to discredit them. Although it happened in the
13:48
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson case, Am Bremner, all the boy victims were
13:52
Speaker 1: all discredited and they were generally saying the same thing.
13:56
Speaker 1: Am Bremner, That's exactly what happened. Nancy and I saw
13:59
Speaker 1: it front row seat and that trial. You and I
14:01
Speaker 1: covered that every day, and that's exactly what happened. There
14:05
Speaker 1: were multiple victims they said the same thing. There was
14:07
Speaker 1: definitely a pattern and it came in with I don't
14:11
Speaker 1: remember how many boys now, but quite a few, and
14:14
Speaker 1: they were not believed. Apparently, guys. Will all the victims
14:17
Speaker 1: be attacked a trial? Will there be a trial, because
14:21
Speaker 1: right now Gil and Maxwell's supporters are starting a movement
14:25
Speaker 1: to get Gil and Maxwell out of jail, the g
14:30
Speaker 1: Oo movement. If she gets out to you, Melissa Crona,
14:35
Speaker 1: an investigative journalist. Gil and Maxwell has three passports that
14:39
Speaker 1: I know of. She I think has remarried. All that's
14:44
Speaker 1: being kept under wraps. She has money, power and privilege
14:49
Speaker 1: at her fingertips and is more than capable of getting
14:54
Speaker 1: a private plane out of here and never coming back.
14:59
Speaker 1: It's true, she's not just capable of finding a private plane.
15:02
Speaker 1: She's capable of flying it herself. She was actually a
15:05
Speaker 1: helicopter pilot for Jeffrey Epstein and buried the victims back
15:08
Speaker 1: and forth from the island. But it's true. She is
15:11
Speaker 1: one of the biggest light risks that I've ever seen
15:14
Speaker 1: or heard of in my entire journalistic career because she
15:18
Speaker 1: doesn't just have money and connections herself, her entire family does.
15:21
Speaker 1: She has seven living siblings, and two of them her sisters,
15:25
Speaker 1: Isabelle and Christine. We're actually one of the early founders
15:29
Speaker 1: of that, one of the first search engines, so they
15:32
Speaker 1: have times of money. They're millionaires in themselves. She has
15:36
Speaker 1: a French passport, she's born in France, and basically the
15:40
Speaker 1: options are endless for her, and she actually gets out
15:42
Speaker 1: of prison. So I think everyone involved in this case
15:45
Speaker 1: knows that that can't happen. You know, an Bremer, a
15:48
Speaker 1: high profile defense attorney out of Seattle. He threw some
15:50
Speaker 1: lat amy a few moments ago. I'm going to throw
15:52
Speaker 1: something back at you, so put on your Mit look
16:00
Speaker 1: strack record. Remember how long we played Where's Waldo with
16:04
Speaker 1: Gil and Maxwell. First she was at an in and
16:07
Speaker 1: out burger in la that was stead. Then she was
16:10
Speaker 1: in Paris, then she was here, then she was there
16:13
Speaker 1: until she's finally located in a multimillion dollar home, a
16:18
Speaker 1: remote home in New England. So since we already know
16:24
Speaker 1: that she plays high and seek with law enforcement, why
16:28
Speaker 1: would anybody let her out on bond? Well, actually, the statute, Nancy,
16:32
Speaker 1: this is what I don't care. If it's a sex
16:34
Speaker 1: offense involving children under federal law, there's no bail. That's
16:37
Speaker 1: what happened to Epstein. That's why he was sitting in
16:39
Speaker 1: jail with no bail. But I mean, having said that,
16:41
Speaker 1: in terms of her likelihood of flight, you know, the
16:45
Speaker 1: question is when when they had a warrant out for her,
16:47
Speaker 1: not a question of where she was before that. So
16:51
Speaker 1: she's in jail now, that's for sure, and she's trying
16:54
Speaker 1: to get out with all these excuses and maybe they'll work.
16:57
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, this is a pr campaign,
16:59
Speaker 1: that's pretty basis. Guys. We were talking about the fact
17:02
Speaker 1: that Jeffrey Epstein's so called Madam I E Is Pimp
17:05
Speaker 1: is part of a movement now to be released from
17:08
Speaker 1: behind bars. She claims that the jealous not respecting her
17:13
Speaker 1: vegan diet, that she cannot wear clothes she wants to wear,
17:18
Speaker 1: that she has lost weight, and that her scales have
17:21
Speaker 1: been taken out of her jail cell. Okay, good luck
17:25
Speaker 1: with all of that, because that's not going to help
17:28
Speaker 1: you with bond. As a matter of fact, it may
17:30
Speaker 1: bite you in the net at trial if a jury
17:33
Speaker 1: were to hear any of this. I also have reason
17:35
Speaker 1: to suspect once the cronin this family friend Mishaum also
17:40
Speaker 1: says that she Max was unable to talk to sisters
17:45
Speaker 1: and their letters are being withheld from her. So how
17:49
Speaker 1: did he get in and learn all this? I have
17:52
Speaker 1: no idea, but I would probably guess that he's working
17:56
Speaker 1: with the sisters and probably they're the ones paying him.
17:59
Speaker 1: And if it is actually true that their letters are
18:02
Speaker 1: being restricted from her, that's good they should be because
18:06
Speaker 1: anyone involved with this please knows that the sisters were
18:09
Speaker 1: involved in helping keep Gayne on the run. There were
18:12
Speaker 1: photographs of her sisters. I think it was visiting the
18:16
Speaker 1: Massachusetts home where she had been hiding out with her
18:19
Speaker 1: supposed husband, Scott Burglerson. These women are very mysterious figures
18:25
Speaker 1: in the case, but all of the indications that we've
18:28
Speaker 1: seen suggests that their communications probably should be limited with Gawayne,
18:32
Speaker 1: and it's just one of the many things that she's
18:35
Speaker 1: going to have to deal with being imposed time stories
18:51
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys are talking about gil and Maxwell
18:58
Speaker 1: behind bars and a following the hills, following on the
19:02
Speaker 1: hills of the release of a four hundred plus page
19:05
Speaker 1: sworn deposition by Gill and Maxwell now to get her
19:10
Speaker 1: out from behind bars. Whoever Besham is the family friend.
19:15
Speaker 1: I don't think he's a lawyer because an Bremner, as
19:19
Speaker 1: you pointed out, he says he finds it quote appalling
19:22
Speaker 1: Gill and Maxwell still in custody, when other convicted sex
19:26
Speaker 1: offenders such as Harvey Wine, standing Bill Cosby or granted bail.
19:30
Speaker 1: That's because they're victims were not children. They're alleged victims
19:34
Speaker 1: were not children, as is in this case exactly. And
19:38
Speaker 1: that's why I kept thinking, this can't be a lawyer,
19:40
Speaker 1: getting back to what the statute says too. If there's
19:42
Speaker 1: child victims, no Bill, that's the appropriate decision by a
19:46
Speaker 1: judge at a bond hearing, no Bill. So I don't
19:49
Speaker 1: know why he's going off in this other tangent that
19:51
Speaker 1: would never be persuasive in my opinion to a judge,
19:54
Speaker 1: I mean the other part of it is on the
19:56
Speaker 1: flight risk. That was apparently the grounds for which she
19:59
Speaker 1: was helped flight risk. You're right. With all the money,
20:02
Speaker 1: the multiple passports and connections and multiple jurisdictions overseas, she
20:08
Speaker 1: is a flight risk, and as Melissa Crowin has pointed out,
20:10
Speaker 1: she knows how to fly a plane. Guys, take a
20:13
Speaker 1: listen again to our friends at CBS News Our Cut seven,
20:17
Speaker 1: Galaine Maxwell says she knew Jeffrey Epstein was a registered
20:21
Speaker 1: sex offender. When asked if she recruited girls on Epstein's behalf,
20:25
Speaker 1: she said I don't recruit anybody and appeared disgusted, saying
20:29
Speaker 1: I resent and despise the word recruit. Throughout the testimony,
20:32
Speaker 1: Maxwell dodged questions about Epstein's alleged abuse of underaged girls
20:37
Speaker 1: and repeatedly called Epstein accuser Virginia Juffrey a liar. Maxwell,
20:42
Speaker 1: defending herself, said I can't think of anything I have
20:45
Speaker 1: done that is illegal. While being questioned about her initial
20:48
Speaker 1: meeting with Eufray, Maxwell's anger appeared to boil over, and
20:51
Speaker 1: she harshly pounded the table, later apologizing for the behavior.
20:56
Speaker 1: Giuffrey alleges Epstein and Maxwell sexually abused her when she
21:00
Speaker 1: was underage and lent her out to their friends. In
21:03
Speaker 1: a July interview with CBS This Morning, Jeffrey said Epstein
21:06
Speaker 1: was a sick pedophile, but Maxwell was the mastermind. She
21:11
Speaker 1: is even worse than Epstein. She put it this way.
21:16
Speaker 1: Epstein was Pinocchio and she was gispetto pulling the strings. Yep,
21:21
Speaker 1: she was pulling the strings. You're hearing the alleged victim,
21:26
Speaker 1: Virginia Roberts Jeffries speaking out. Now. It's interesting to me
21:31
Speaker 1: that Karen Stark, she says she knew Jeffrey Epstein was
21:35
Speaker 1: a registered sex offender, but still continued to hang out
21:39
Speaker 1: with him and denies recruiting anyone. How will that stuck
21:43
Speaker 1: up in court when multiple girl victims claimed that she
21:47
Speaker 1: was the one that connected them with Epstein. I can't
21:51
Speaker 1: imagine Nancy that that will hold up and court it. Oh,
21:54
Speaker 1: think about the fact that she's questioning the word recruit. Okay,
21:59
Speaker 1: let's say she'd groomed them, because she did. She entertain them,
22:04
Speaker 1: She took them to the movies, she talked to them
22:06
Speaker 1: about steps, she got them prepared to him she'd take
22:09
Speaker 1: off her clothes to be with them, so yes, she'd
22:13
Speaker 1: read it was more than recruiting. She'd bloomed them to
22:16
Speaker 1: be with him. Take a listen now to Adrian Banker
22:20
Speaker 1: at ABCGMA. Do you recall any kind of sexual contact
22:25
Speaker 1: with Virginia Roberts then any other time? None whatsoever. In
22:29
Speaker 1: the deposition, Maxwell repeatedly claims Guffrey is lying about her.
22:34
Speaker 1: She calls Giuffrey an exaggerator, a fantasist, and an absolutely true,
22:39
Speaker 1: terrible person. Maxwell also claims not to remember this photograph
22:43
Speaker 1: appearing to show the three of them together, which Guffray
22:46
Speaker 1: says was taken in two thousand and one at Maxwell's
22:48
Speaker 1: London home. Prince Andrew has previously said that he has
22:51
Speaker 1: no recollection of the picture being taken and can't be
22:55
Speaker 1: sure if it's real or fake. Barry Levine, author of
22:58
Speaker 1: The Spider inside the criminal Web of Jeffrey Epstein and
23:01
Speaker 1: gi Lenn Maxwell, has been investigating the allegations at the
23:04
Speaker 1: heart of these cases, and says Epstein needed the help
23:07
Speaker 1: of someone like Maxwell to earn the trust of his
23:10
Speaker 1: alleged victims. It really became a symbiotic coupling. In the
23:15
Speaker 1: sense that they were able to present themselves, particularly to
23:21
Speaker 1: young women and their families, in the sense that they
23:26
Speaker 1: appeared as a loving young couple. You know, it's very
23:31
Speaker 1: interesting hearing Barry Levine describing that he's the author of
23:36
Speaker 1: The Spider Because to you, Melissa Cronin, author of Jeffrey Epstein,
23:41
Speaker 1: Dead Men Tell No Tales, an upcoming book Epstein, Inc.
23:45
Speaker 1: We see the same thing happening in the Harvey Weinstein case,
23:49
Speaker 1: where his receptionist or his female assistant would put his
23:56
Speaker 1: rape victims, his sex assault victims at ease, bring them in,
24:01
Speaker 1: show them into Weinstein's office, set up the appointment, and
24:05
Speaker 1: so forth, and seemingly put a facade of respectability on
24:11
Speaker 1: what would turn out to be a crime scene. Melissa, Yes, Nancy,
24:15
Speaker 1: I worked at Barry Levine for many years, and he's
24:17
Speaker 1: so right that this is just the m of so
24:21
Speaker 1: many sex criminals over the years, as I'm sure you've
24:24
Speaker 1: seen and covered in many many cases. And it's one
24:28
Speaker 1: of the most just sickening things about the entire case
24:31
Speaker 1: that not only did Epstein and Gin target girl who
24:36
Speaker 1: were vulnerable to this kind of predation, girl who were
24:40
Speaker 1: homeless or had bad relationships with their parents, We're not
24:43
Speaker 1: doing well in school. Incomes this woman, Glaine Maxwell, you know,
24:48
Speaker 1: hoity tweety accent, beautiful quatre clothes, offering them a chance
24:53
Speaker 1: at another life. Of course they were They were just
24:56
Speaker 1: seduced by her glamour and kind of the life that
25:00
Speaker 1: you laid out for them, and they had no idea
25:03
Speaker 1: what she was really bringing them into. And it's just
25:06
Speaker 1: so sickening. It makes the hairs them may next stand
25:08
Speaker 1: up to think about the way that she targeted that,
25:12
Speaker 1: you know. Bobby Chicone, a former special agent with the FBI,
25:16
Speaker 1: screenwriter for Criminal Minds, I just got thrown back in
25:21
Speaker 1: time to the first case and we didn't call it
25:26
Speaker 1: this at the time, but of grooming and my first
25:31
Speaker 1: case where I argued that to a jury was about
25:35
Speaker 1: a developmentally disabled little boy who his mom did everything
25:42
Speaker 1: she could to advance him in life, as we all
25:45
Speaker 1: do with our children. The thing he loved to do
25:49
Speaker 1: was go to video arcades and play videos the games,
25:54
Speaker 1: and the mom would give him quarters to go play.
25:58
Speaker 1: In his mind could understand the games and that was
26:01
Speaker 1: fun to him. The guy that was antally raping him
26:07
Speaker 1: and molesting him to see him many people, not me,
26:12
Speaker 1: but many people thought he was attractive. He had a
26:14
Speaker 1: great job, he had a wife, a family, and he
26:18
Speaker 1: would give the little boy who couldn't understand a lot,
26:22
Speaker 1: couldn't communicate a lot rolls of quarters in exchange for
26:28
Speaker 1: raping the little boy. And one day the mom found
26:32
Speaker 1: either a ten or twenty dollar bill in his pocket,
26:36
Speaker 1: the boy's pocket, and she knew something was horribly wrong
26:40
Speaker 1: because he had no way, this developmentally disabled little boy
26:45
Speaker 1: had no way of getting a crisp ten dollar bill,
26:48
Speaker 1: so she knew something was wrong and then found blood
26:52
Speaker 1: in his underwear. Those were some of the shocking facts
26:56
Speaker 1: in that case. In this case, it's alleged Gil and
27:00
Speaker 1: Maxwell lured and groom these girl victims in a very
27:05
Speaker 1: different way, but it's it's all the same thing time
27:21
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about Gil and
27:27
Speaker 1: Maxwell and an attempt to get her out from behind
27:31
Speaker 1: prison walls. To Bobby Chicone, the luring the grooming of
27:35
Speaker 1: these girls, as you heard Melissa cron And describe way
27:39
Speaker 1: in yeah, I mean after you're exactly right. I mean
27:41
Speaker 1: what we have found in these predators, in these groomers,
27:45
Speaker 1: they have this evil innate ability to look at a
27:48
Speaker 1: crowd of children say that that's where their victim fluid,
27:51
Speaker 1: and they can pick out the ones that are most vulnerable.
27:54
Speaker 1: They just have that instinct. Is whether it's cultural, whether
27:57
Speaker 1: it's financial, whether it's psychological with the developmentally challenge person,
28:02
Speaker 1: whether it's financialize in possibly this case, they know the
28:06
Speaker 1: vulnerabilities of their potential victims. They have that innate sense.
28:10
Speaker 1: They a power predator can scan a playground of kids
28:13
Speaker 1: and within minutes he knows which kids, be it by
28:16
Speaker 1: body language or how they're interacting with the other children,
28:19
Speaker 1: they knew they know which one to target, and that's
28:22
Speaker 1: part of the vulnerability of the victim that they somehow
28:25
Speaker 1: pick up on and they go after. And whether it's
28:28
Speaker 1: like in this case, financial or these are court kids
28:31
Speaker 1: that are being lowered by the richness of the of
28:35
Speaker 1: the predator, or whatever it is, they have that ability
28:38
Speaker 1: to focus in on the vulnerability of the victim and
28:41
Speaker 1: then exploit that vulnerability. You Now, I compare it, Bobby
28:45
Speaker 1: to kind to a predator on the savannah where they
28:55
Speaker 1: let me just say, gazelles come to drink. Somehow, I
29:00
Speaker 1: don't know that they even go through a sequenced thought process.
29:05
Speaker 1: They somehow instinctively pick the weakest gazelle. They just have
29:10
Speaker 1: to outrun one gazelle, the weakest one. And I believe
29:16
Speaker 1: that is how predators pick their child sex victim. Isn't
29:21
Speaker 1: it true? Melissa cronan investigative reporter and author of Jeffrey
29:27
Speaker 1: Epstein Dead Men Tell No Teals, an upcoming book, Epstein Inc.
29:33
Speaker 1: Explain how these young girls were allegedly groomed and lured
29:38
Speaker 1: into sex with Epstein or sex acts. Grooming is exactly
29:43
Speaker 1: what happened, and each girl kind of experienced a different
29:49
Speaker 1: a different type of grooming, I guess, depending on how
29:52
Speaker 1: particular vulnerability. So, for example, we saw in the in
29:58
Speaker 1: the two thousand and six case when they were able
30:02
Speaker 1: to get documents from Epstein's home that showed that he
30:05
Speaker 1: had sent one teenage girl a bouquet of roses after
30:10
Speaker 1: her performance out of school recital. For another girl, he
30:14
Speaker 1: had arranged for her to get a rental car because
30:18
Speaker 1: she had no car. And for Virginia Roberts, Gufrey Blaine
30:23
Speaker 1: Maxwell met her at the Marlago Spa and basically she
30:28
Speaker 1: alleged offered her a job as a private messuit for
30:32
Speaker 1: this mysterious billionaire Jeffrey Epstein, and for Virginia who was working,
30:38
Speaker 1: you know, just part time and didn't really have a
30:40
Speaker 1: future ahead of her that she could see this was
30:44
Speaker 1: like a major upgrade in her life. So they really
30:47
Speaker 1: kind of looked at these girls like Bobby was describing
30:50
Speaker 1: and like you were describing, and highlighted, honed in on
30:53
Speaker 1: their vulnerabilities and offered them exactly what they thought would
30:58
Speaker 1: kind of rulure them in and p douce them in.
31:00
Speaker 1: And that's what's the most disturbing of all of it.
31:05
Speaker 1: Of course, this case has implications that reach across the ocean.
31:09
Speaker 1: I'm referring specifically to Prince Andrew is probably back having
31:16
Speaker 1: a cup of tea at Buckingham Palace right now. Take
31:18
Speaker 1: a listen to this. After months of fighting to keep
31:21
Speaker 1: deposition sealed, this morning, newly unsealed testimony gives a glimpse
31:24
Speaker 1: of what Gillin Maxwell said under oath in twenty sixteen,
31:28
Speaker 1: repeatedly denying any knowledge or participation and convicted sex offender
31:33
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's alleged sexual abuse of teenage girls. In a
31:37
Speaker 1: contentious deposition made public Thursday under court order, Maxwell Epstein's
31:41
Speaker 1: one time girlfriend and socialite, who had been accused of
31:44
Speaker 1: finding and grooming girls for him in the years before
31:47
Speaker 1: he died by suicide in jail in August twenty nineteen,
31:51
Speaker 1: has testified I never saw any inappropriate underage activities with Jeffrey. Ever.
31:57
Speaker 1: The redacted transcript stems from a twenty fifteen defamation case
32:00
Speaker 1: brought by Virginia Roberts to Frey, who, in court filings,
32:04
Speaker 1: accuses Maxwell and Epstein of directing her to have sex
32:08
Speaker 1: with prominent men, including Prince Andrew when she was a miner.
32:14
Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend andrean banker at ABC's GMA. Of course,
32:20
Speaker 1: in that deposition we see where she is asked about
32:25
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew, and we see that Gillen Maxwell skirted all
32:29
Speaker 1: the questions about Virginia Robert Jeffrey's claim Andrew had used
32:34
Speaker 1: kind of a hand puppet to grope her in Epstein's
32:38
Speaker 1: New York home. Also, you know, this reminds me so much,
32:43
Speaker 1: Am Bremner, of rape cases. And I'll tell you why.
32:47
Speaker 1: Remember a way back when, when we didn't always have
32:52
Speaker 1: DNA we can rely on. First of all, in a
32:55
Speaker 1: rape case, the defendant would say, I've never seen her
32:58
Speaker 1: in my life, then you'd find a witness and says, oh, well,
33:03
Speaker 1: so and so Jackie places the two of you at
33:05
Speaker 1: a bar that night. He goes, hump bar. Oh wait
33:09
Speaker 1: a minute, is she the girl that came on to
33:11
Speaker 1: me at the bar? Yeah, we had a beer together,
33:14
Speaker 1: but that's it. And then he says, I left the
33:18
Speaker 1: bar she was still sitting there getting drunk. All right,
33:21
Speaker 1: Then you have oh, well, the guy at the parking lot,
33:25
Speaker 1: he has a video of the two of you walking
33:28
Speaker 1: to her car. He goes, oh, well, yeah, yeah, now
33:31
Speaker 1: that you say that, I remember walking her to a car.
33:34
Speaker 1: And then it goes on that okay, then the video
33:37
Speaker 1: shows you getting in the car with her. Well, I
33:40
Speaker 1: may have helped her to her car and gotten in
33:42
Speaker 1: and taught her for a few moments. Now that you
33:44
Speaker 1: tell me that, well, then you find that there is
33:48
Speaker 1: evidence the defendant's hair in the back seat of the car.
33:54
Speaker 1: Finally gets down to okay, yeah, you know what, now
33:56
Speaker 1: that you remind me, I think she did come on
33:59
Speaker 1: to me and we did have sex in her car.
34:02
Speaker 1: You know, like, how trashy is she? So it's her
34:06
Speaker 1: word now against his, that there was ever any sex
34:11
Speaker 1: activity whatsoever. Then you get the bruises, then you get
34:15
Speaker 1: the marks on her neck, then you get the torn clothing.
34:19
Speaker 1: To make your case here, we're gonna see the same
34:23
Speaker 1: thing regarding Prince Andrew. It never happened. Okay, maybe they
34:28
Speaker 1: were at the same party, because apparently in the deposition
34:33
Speaker 1: she's shown the same photo. It's Scott Virginia Jeffreys with
34:37
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew's hand wrapped around her freaky. He's old enough
34:41
Speaker 1: to be her at least father. And you got Gila
34:44
Speaker 1: Maxwell beaming in the background. I think it's her. It's
34:48
Speaker 1: her home, and she's like, yeah, that looks kind of familiar.
34:52
Speaker 1: I mean, so now we're getting evidence and she's having
34:55
Speaker 1: to shift and change the story to go with the
34:58
Speaker 1: hard evidence. I mean, now you got Anne Drew claiming
35:01
Speaker 1: that it was doctor. That's not his hand, right, and
35:04
Speaker 1: his friends have come out and said it was doctor.
35:06
Speaker 1: There's a picture of him at Epstein's house in Manhattan
35:09
Speaker 1: kind of saying goodbye to one of the girls through
35:11
Speaker 1: a partially open doorway. I mean that this evidence keeps
35:14
Speaker 1: piling up, and the fact of the matter is, you know,
35:17
Speaker 1: with her, at least she's not going to admit anything unless,
35:21
Speaker 1: as you say, she's given a photograph or something else.
35:24
Speaker 1: But basically like, well, I don't remember, I don't know,
35:26
Speaker 1: you know, et cetera. About Prince Andrew, I've always said
35:28
Speaker 1: about him that there could be an extradition. I mean,
35:31
Speaker 1: the fact is there's evidence against him, just like there
35:34
Speaker 1: is against others. Why he's sitting in Buckingham Palace sipping
35:39
Speaker 1: tea or riding his horse with a queen? You know? Why? Yeah? Why?
35:42
Speaker 1: You know? There's another issue I found very interesting in
35:45
Speaker 1: the release of this deposition. I don't know if you
35:47
Speaker 1: notice this or not. Melissa Cronan investiaive journalist and author
35:51
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein Dead Men Tell No Tails followed up by
35:55
Speaker 1: Epstein Inc. There was a lot of redaction, which I've
35:59
Speaker 1: had to personally go through hundreds and hundreds of pages
36:03
Speaker 1: of statements to redact names for many different legal reasons.
36:09
Speaker 1: They redacted names like Prince Andrew and other high profile men,
36:14
Speaker 1: but they left somehow They left the names of four
36:17
Speaker 1: underage victims in the documents. How that happened. That is
36:22
Speaker 1: one of the first things that I noticed to Nancy,
36:24
Speaker 1: and it just made me yet again curious about this case,
36:29
Speaker 1: because it's true, there are so many instances throughout the
36:33
Speaker 1: entire document where they redacted names that are completely obvious
36:37
Speaker 1: to anyone who's covered this case at all. And that is,
36:41
Speaker 1: like you said, Prince Andrew, there's areas where it's clear
36:44
Speaker 1: that she's referring to the Clinton soil and heard Clinton
36:47
Speaker 1: and other high profile A list mails that were completely redacted.
36:53
Speaker 1: You know, they went through more than four hundred pages
36:56
Speaker 1: and made sure that Prince Andrew wasn't mentioned, but somehow
36:59
Speaker 1: they missed the names of four underage victims. And it's
37:04
Speaker 1: just ridiculous because it shows, yet again, throughout the whole
37:07
Speaker 1: entire case, how the men who are alleged to have
37:11
Speaker 1: committed these acts are being protected at every single turn,
37:15
Speaker 1: and the women are being thrown to the wolves. And
37:18
Speaker 1: just as an illustration of that, there was a photo
37:21
Speaker 1: of Prince Andrew released after this deposition came out, and
37:26
Speaker 1: he's driving around in the countryside and his range rover.
37:29
Speaker 1: He's not at all bothered by what's happening, and meanwhile
37:32
Speaker 1: these women are being victimized over and over again. It
37:35
Speaker 1: just hurts me that the most vulnerable in our society
37:40
Speaker 1: are still being taken advantage off we wait as justice enfolds.
37:47
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace crime story, signing off good my Friend,