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The Three Lost Rings · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, everybody.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Tim Hannon, and with me as always is Steve Wirt.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Steve, how are you doing today?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm doing okay.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: This episode, we're going to look back at the greatest seasons of each of Pittsburgh's pro sports franchises, where the team did not win a championship.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: And those three teams are the 1976 Steelers, the 1993 Penguins, and the 1927 Pittsburgh Pirates.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think one thing we'll see as we go through these three teams is there's a lot of similarities between these three teams, but they all meet their demise in very different fashions.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: So let's let's start with the 76 Steelers and talk about that team.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's one I think that probably a lot of diehard Steelers fans are familiar with or harken back to because it was such a good team, and we'll talk about what happened.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: So coming into the 1976 season, the Steelers are two-time defending Super Bowl champions.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: And those two championships were largely because of their defense.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is before Terry Bradshaw and Lynn Swan and John Stalworth had really developed that aerial attack that propelled the Steelers later in the decade.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Steve, I always feel like that Super Steelers dynasty, I feel like it's like split into two halves in terms of like their style.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of is, like even like chronologically, because they win two and then did they go one or two years without going back to two years.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Two years and then go back to the Super.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it really is almost like two different styles, at least.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: They still had a good defense in the last two, but they still had a good defense, but off I guess maybe two different offensive styles.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because the first two is definitely more of a run the ball.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Run the ball.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then ironically, they changed the roles in the in those two years that they didn't win.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: They changed the roles to favor passing because of Mel Blunt.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then and then they developed a really good aerial attack, and that's kind of what propelled them to their last two Super Bowls.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: But in here in 1976, they're looking to become the first NFL team ever to three-peat.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: You mean Super Bowl era or ever for the three-peat?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Super Bowl era.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was gonna say because I'm pretty sure the Packers three-peated.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: The Browns.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't count.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um only the Super Bowl era counts because the Stewart have the most Super Bowls.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's why, that's why that's the only thing that matters.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it didn't matter if you got a SEAL here and a SEAL there and run the ball in the alley.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, to be a little more objective, I think there is something to be said about um, you know, if if somebody won a bunch of championships in 1929 or whatever, when half the teams in the league were folding mid-season, it's not as impressive as the Super Bowl.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Or the Super Bowl is really the modern era of football.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, we will save that debate for another day.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the that 76 season starts off rocky.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: The defense is not good.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Week one, they blew a 14-point lead in Oakland.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Week three, the defense blows an 11-point lead against New England.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then the defense is in the middle of blowing another lead in week five against Cleveland when disaster strikes.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: So the Browns have a defensive lineman.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: His name is Turkey Jones.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he and you yeah, you know what this is going to be.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he he catches Bradshaw for a sack, but instead of just bringing him down to the ground, Turkey Jones literally picks up Bradshaw and dumps him directly on his head, like like neck first.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's an incredibly violent and shocking play, even for that era of football.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Bradshaw can't feel his legs.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and Steve, here's a good like how times have changed story.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: So the way they handle this is they get Bradshaw off the field on a stretcher, and then they just stick him in a hallway outside the locker room on a gurney until the game is over.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like no x-rays, no rushing him to the hospital.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Just you wait here in the hallway, we gotta finish the game.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Then they fly him back to Pittsburgh with the rest of the team, and then and then at that point they take him to a hospital.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: He'll be alright.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Hospitals in Cleveland suck.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Bradshaw says he has no feeling in his legs for almost three days.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: He thought his career was over.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: He wasn't sure he'd ever even be able to walk again.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh for his point, for his part, Jones does say that he's sorry that it happened.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: He says, quote, I hope Terry Bradshaw's okay.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: I hate to see a quality player like him get hurt.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: We're all in this game trying to make a living.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um it it it really does look horrific.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Jones does get penalized on the play, but back then there was you know no such thing as fines or suspensions or or any of that stuff.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's that's kind of the he was definitely roughing the passer.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: He earned that penalty.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was a penalty, but that was about it.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: And today that I feel like that would be very, very different.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: There'd be a suspension, yeah.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, absolutely.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and to be fair, even some of the Steelers players are quoted after the game saying they thought it was an accident.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think um one of the Steelers flipped somebody over.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the what what one I think was Jerry Mullins, the offensive lineman for the Steelers, said something to the effect of, you know, Bradshaw was um a guy that was could could scramble.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And if you didn't, you know, if you tried to like arm tackle him, he would get out of that and he'd run for 10 yards.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: So Jones was trying to make sure he wrapped him up and and didn't mean to, you know, dump him on his head.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um we'll we'll post a link to it on our site.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: You can decide.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it's one of those things.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: I I knew the name Turkey Jones from when I was a young child because my mother talks about that place.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Fifty years later, she still talks about Turkey James.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: She's traumatized by it.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I mean, so if you ask my mom about Turkey Jones, it's just like hushed reverence.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like I, you know, she she remembers where she was when she was watching it, thought Terry Bradshaw was like hushed reverence as much as abject horror.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, abject horror is probably a better description.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, you're right.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it and and that's how a lot of people in Pittsburgh felt like, oh my god, like he almost he almost killed Terry Bradshaw.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: So the Steelers lose that game at Cleveland, and at this point in the season, they're one and four.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: And remember, this is a 14-game season.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: So one and four is almost halfway through the season.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And at this time, only four teams in each conference qualified for the playoffs.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: You had the three division winners and a wild card, and that's it.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think they had as many teams, did they?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in 1976, they had 28 teams.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, not that far off.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right, not that far off.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, you only back when the regular season meant something, Tim.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: You had you had 14 teams in each conference, only four, four of those 14 teams qualified.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: So one and four at that point is is not good.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: They're also down because Bradsaw got hurt, they're down to their backup quarterback who is supposed to be Joe Gilliam, but Joe Gilliam had been waived several weeks earlier because he had a bad drug addiction.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: It was causing him to mispractices in team meetings, and the Steelers just had enough.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: So now they're down to their third string quarterback.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a rookie named Mike Khrushchev.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: So at this point, they're done, right?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: One and four, third string rookie quarterback.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't even have Terry Hanratdy still.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, that sucks.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so they're they're they're dead in the water, is what you're thinking at this point.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: The next week they're hosting the division leading Cincinnati Bengals, and there's a turning point for the defense, and we're gonna let Jack Lambert talk about what happens in that game.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're down to one quarterback, and uh, and Cincinnati knew it.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: At least Bo Harris knew it, I guess.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and like his family, and he ran out of bounds and Harris gave him a shot.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a real official shot, but it was a good shot.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I went down the line and gave him one back.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I like the dramatic music.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so Jack Lambert, he says that was kind of a turning point.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, at that point, it's like they were tired of getting pushed around.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: The defense was really um not good.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like we said, they were blowing weeds, and it was just kind of enough is enough.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was very similar to what had happened in the Super Bowl the year before with Cliff Harris harassing uh Roy Darrella and Lambert threw him down to the ground.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: So uh he says that's a turning point, and what happens is the Bengals the Steelers beat the Bengals 23 to 6.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: What a shocker.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers beating the Bengals.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's like you could say that a lot over the last couple decades.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: You could, you could.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and then they proceed to go on just a run for the ages.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and I'm gonna read the this is the last uh eight games of the season, and I'm just gonna read these scores, and I have to read this out loud because even even reading it out loud, I can't believe it actually happened.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: So they they New York Giants 27 to nothing, San Diego 23 to nothing, Kansas City 45 to nothing, Miami 14-3, Houston 32 to 16, Houston somehow scores some points, Cincinnati 7-3.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: So they've given up 19 points in like what five games?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: It gets better.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Cincinnati, 7-3, Tampa Bay, 42 to nothing, Houston Oilers 21 to nothing.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: 21 points in how many games?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, so yeah, if you're keeping track, that's nine straight wins, eight of which the defense does not allow a touchdown in, five of which are shutouts.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I you you'll never see that again, right?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: You'll never see something like that ever again in any other game.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: The Ravens, I think the Ravens had like that in 2000, right?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: They had something like that pretty close.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh five shutouts, eight games where they didn't allow a touchdown.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: I I even 85 Bears, 2,000 Ravens, whatever great defense comes next, I just don't think you'll ever see that again.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's just unheard of.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I know the roles are different now and it probably just couldn't happen because of that.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: But even in 1976, that's unbelievable that they they went they went, you know, eight games where they didn't allow a touchdown.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: They just allowed field goals.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: And and that one game, the Oilers got a couple of touchdowns.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: That was it.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: One game out of out of nine where somebody scored a touchdown.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's unbelievable.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um Lambert's name, the defensive player of the year.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Eight Steelers defensive players make the 1976 Pro Bowl team, including the entire secondary.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: So imagine that.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: The Pro Bowl, they're playing the Pro Bowl, and eight of the eleven guys in the huddle are Steelers.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if the three other guys were.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the the eight Steelers were JT Thomas, LC Greenwood, Joe Green, Jack Am, Jack Lambert, Glenn Edwards, Mike Wagner, and Mel Blunt.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: So you could process elimination.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: It would have been it would have been uh, let's see, two defensive linemen and a linebacker, I guess, would have been the other three guys in the AFC.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: On offense, Khrushchev wins all six of his starts, and he really isn't asked to do that much.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: He has zero touchdown passes in those six starts.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: And only attempts and only attempts 85 passes total.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: But he does complete 60% of them and has a good passer rating.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: So he's not asked to do much, but when he is doing something, he's not messing it up.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: At least the real strength of the offense is the running game.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Franco Harris and Rocky Blair both rush for a thousand yards.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And remember, like we said, this is a 14-game schedule.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: So to have two running backs gain a thousand yards in a 14-game schedule, they're running the ball a lot and they're running the ball effectively.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Terry Bradshaw is back and he's healthy for the playoffs.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: So the Seals do qualify for the playoffs.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: They have to go on the road because they had that bad start.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but they're the hottest team in football, and a lot of people think for sure they're head back, they're headed back to the Super Bowl.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: The first playoff game is at Baltimore against not the Ravens.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: This is back when the Colts played in Baltimore.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is that that?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, who's their quarterback?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Brent?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Burt Jones.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Burt Jones, yeah, that's it.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: And Burt Jones in 1976, Steve, is the NFL is the NFL's most valuable player.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's he's pretty good.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: So he's really good.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not today, though.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Not today.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: He's no match for the Steelers defense.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: The Steelers win 40-14.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: They they just blow out the Colts, and that sets up a third consecutive AFC championship game against the Oakland Raiders.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: And Oakland had only lost one game that season, so they're there's gonna be a tough out.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oakland was a one-loss team.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: But again, the Steelers are just on fire.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: They're steamrolling everybody, their defense is so good.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, in that Baltimore game, the Steelers lose both Franco Harris and Rocky Plyr to injury, so they go to Oakland with Reggie Harrison as their starting running back.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: And Chuck Knowle basically has to install a new single back three wide receiver offense the week of the game, because they didn't have two running backs anymore, and the one running back they did have was Reggie Harrison.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: The offense is unable to do anything.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: The Raiders become the first team in three months to figure out the Steelers defense.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Kenny Stabler throws two touchdown passes, and the Raiders win 24-7, and that ends the dream 1976 season.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the game where Jack Lambert says after the game, just give me another six-pack and we'll play him again?
• 14:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great quote.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the Steelers are very upset about losing that game.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the common sort of perception here in Pittsburgh, Steve, from many of the Steelers fans and the players on that team have said it too.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Had Franco and Rocky been healthy for that game, the Steelers win.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's I think that's what everybody believes.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Would you agree with that?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm yeah, I've I would think so.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've heard that given as a reason they've lost that game.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: So so I want to I just want to dissect that theory a little bit.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I think so.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: If you're arguing for that theory, okay, it's a huge disadvantage when you can't run the offense that you've been running all year, right?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: We said he they basically had to install a new offense, and and you don't have your you know, your bread and butter running backs.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I think you even saw that bite the Steelers in the 2010s when Le'Veon Bell kept getting injured for the playoffs, right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: It just wasn't the same without your dynamic running back.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Also, you could argue that the defense had to be on the field a ton.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: If the offense was not able to do anything, they were going three and out, maybe, and maybe the defense just had to be on the field a lot and couldn't hold back the Raiders.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think the arguments against that theory would be that, okay, the offense for sure was hampered.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't directly hurt the team either.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: If you if you watch that game, and I went back and watched um highlights of it, Reggie Harrison was really bad early.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: He's like falling down in the backfield.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and Bradshaw, I think, throws a bad interception in the first quarter, but the Raiders don't really get any points off of it.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not it's not akin to like the playoff game in Denver when Le'Veon Bell and D'Angelo Williams were hurt uh and and then like the third team running back fumbled the game away.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't there weren't any big mistakes from the offense.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the defense collapsed.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they didn't allow a touchdown for eight games, but they allowed three touchdowns in this game.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: I I feel like if Oakland wins that game 10-7 instead of 24-7, I think the Franco Harris, Rocky Blyer argument holds more water to me.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: But that's just my kind of my take on that.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think I agree.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, if they stay on the field a little bit more, maybe you know the Raiders score a few less points.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the offense kind of helps the defense a little bit.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: The defense might have been tired out.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: They had to play a lot that season.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think you had brought that up.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe they were kind of gassed.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's fair.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't I the idea that like they would have for sure won with Franco Harris and Rocky Blyer.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the other thing that's worth mentioning in the It would have been a closer game, I think.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure it would have, I guess.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: But again, they gave up they gave up all those points to Kenny Stabler.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if he's still scoring 24 points, again, it the whole the whole season was based on this defense that couldn't wouldn't allow any points whatsoever, and they allowed 24 points in that game.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's really what it comes down to.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be curious to see the quarterbacks of some of those teams, though.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: I bet they weren't all that great.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and maybe again, Stabler just maybe the the coaches or whatever, they just figured it out.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I think it's also worth mentioning that the 75 title game the year before, Oakland had held uh Franco Harris and Rocky Blair to a combined 95 yards total, and that was at the River Stadium.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't like Oakland, you know, couldn't couldn't play against those two guys anyway.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think it's a I think it's a decent excuse.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know that it's quite the the excuse that people have made it out to be over the years.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, let's talk about the aftermath of that season.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: The Raiders go on to defeat Minnesota in Super Bowl XI.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: Mike Khrushchev never again starts a game for the Steelers.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: He's out of football by 1980.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: He does later become the head coach at the University of Central Florida.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: To this day, no NFL team has ever won three consecutive Super Bowls.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: And in terms of like the legacy of this team, I think it's well documented.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of people feel like this was the best Steeler team ever, better than any of the six Super Bowl winners.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not just fans.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um Jack Ham has said that.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: Dan Rooney said that, Dak Lambert.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: So there's guys you know very closely associated with the Steelers that honestly believe that this was the best Steelers team ever, and they just didn't go all the way.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: It happens.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's a long season.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's only 14 games, and anything can happen in a one-game playoff.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like baseball where there's seven games to decide a series.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, yeah, and and it right.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, Oakland again, it wasn't like they got upset.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oakland was a really good team.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: They were playing at Oakland.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that was gonna be tough to beat them.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: But I I I bet if they win that game, then they probably trounced Minnesota in the Super Bowl.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, was that the uh no, I don't know who who was the quarterback?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Was it Targetington?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was Tarkington, but they they always went to the Super Bowl and lost, and yeah, they did it again that year.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about our next team on the list.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's the 1993 Pittsburgh Penguins, and there's a lot of similarities between the 93 Penguins and the 76 Steelers.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: The Penguins, just like the Steelers, are coming off back-to-back titles and looking to three Pete.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: They had won the 1992 Stanley Cup by winning their final 11 games of the playoffs.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: If you remember that, that's that's how they won the cup in 92.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: They won their last 11 games.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was a crazy run, yeah.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, they were they were a jugger, not so they start the 93 season on a similar tear.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: They only lose once in their first 14 games of the season, and they basically just outscored everyone.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: That year there are 30 players in the entire league who have 90 points, and five of those guys play for the Penguins.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Mario Lemieux, Kevin Stevens, Rick Dockett, Ron Francis, and Yaramir Jagger.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: They're on their way to another dominant season, but then in January, something pretty shocking happens.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Lemieux announces he has cancer and will be out of the lineup indefinitely while undergoing radiation treatment.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I I remember when that was announced.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: I remember watching that on Sports Center before I went to school and like not wanting to go to school because it was just so depressing.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, I I I don't know, Steve.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember that?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: How shocking that was Mary Lemieux is going to be out for indefinitely because he has cancer.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I remember yeah, him getting cancer and it was crazy.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was yeah, like you wouldn't expect like a you know person in their prime and especially like an athlete to to get something, but I guess it could happen to anybody.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was it was absolutely shocking.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was shocking.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and really at that point, no one knows if Mary's gonna play that season or ever again, really.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and what's gonna become of this what was a very promising season up to that point.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: And Mario ends up being out for two months, and the Penguins fare okay.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he's gone.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: They go like about 500, which you know keeps them in contention, but obviously won't get them much farther.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: On March 2nd, Mario gets his final radiation treatment and then gets on a plane to Philadelphia and plays that night.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: And he not only plays, but he has a goal and an assist.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: And and Rod Brindemore, the longtime flyer, he said, quote, it was like, really?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: You've been out this long and you're still that good.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: I just remember going, You've got to be kidding.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: And the fans at the Spectrum in Philly give Mario a standing ovation, which is probably even more improbable than the 7060 horse posting five shoutouts.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because Philadelphia hates really hates Pittsburgh.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they hate everybody, they hate Santa Claus, but they really hate the Penguins.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: And and after that, two really remarkable things happen.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: One is uh Mary Olenino.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: When he came back, he trails Buffalo Sabres forward Pat La Fontaine by 12 points for the NHL scoring league because you know he had missed two months.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so even the fact that he's only 12 points behind after missing two months is pretty amazing.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then he finishes the season with 30 goals and 26 assists in 20 games to pass La Fontaine and capture the Art Ross Trophy by 12 points.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: So he ends up beating La Fontaine by 12 points after he missed two months due to cancer treatments.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I I you can't even describe how how amazing that is.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: He still to this day holds a record for most missed games ever by an Art Ross winner.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: And he's got the third highest points per game average in the history of the league that season.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: So Mario individually is doing something amazing.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: The other remarkable thing that happens is the pens, like the 76 Stealers, go on a run for the ages.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: They win 17 games in a row.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: To this day, that is still an NHL record.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is that I remember that, right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I remember the game they lost it actually, but it like and they barely lost it in overtime or something, didn't they?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or yeah.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or I I think I want to say they lost it with a tie, but they had already broken the record, so it was kind of like, okay, yeah, I had to end at some point.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: But the the game where they can set the record is at Madison Square Garden against the Rangers.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: And in that game, Lemieux has five goals.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: And once again, the New York fans, also not known for being the most cordial people in the world, they can't help but to stand up and clap.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: So the Penguins finish the regular season with 119 points.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: They capture the president's trophy as the best regular season in the league, or best regular season record, I should say, in the league.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Lemieux is the best player on the planet.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's like not even close.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and what a story, right?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is one that they're gonna make a movie out of someday.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this team, Mario has cancer, he comes back and he leads the Penguins to a third Stanley Cup.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's what you're thinking's gonna happen.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: The first round opponent in the playoffs is the New Jersey Devils, and it does not go well for the Devils.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: They get ousted in five games, although, as you'll hear in this clip from announcer Gary Thorne, it may have been over even sooner than that.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Last quarter of the season, devils could do nothing with it.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: They dropped from the sixth best to twelve.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Lamieux short handed.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, he scores! Unbelievable! Short handed goal by Mario Lamieux! That may be the end of the series right there.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: That was game two.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was game two.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean Was that John Van B's rook?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Who was the goalie?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even see.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, New Jersey back then.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: I good question.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Chris Terreri, maybe.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'd have to look that up.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think, yeah, I think it was, yeah.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody that wasn't gonna stop Mario Lemie on a breakaway.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I think I think if you've ever w if you never watched Mario play during that era, I think in I it's like it's kind of hard to put into words just how really dominant he was, but I think listening to that clip might give you a taste of it.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: Just the just the like, oh my god, he scored.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is just you can't he's he's just he's that good, you can't stop him.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is pointless.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Why are we even playing this game?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that was the reaction there.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: So and that's that's how good the Penguins were at that point.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: And there's no doubt they're just gonna steamroll their way through the playoffs to another Stanley Cup.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the second round opponent is the New York Islanders.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Bum, bum, bum.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: The the Penguins, the Penguins going into that series already have some bad history against New York.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the Islanders had come back from a three games to nothing deficit to beat them in 1975, and then there was another disastrous playoff loss against them in 1982.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and the Islanders actually had played the Penguins tough that season.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: They'd beaten the Penguins three out of the seven times they played them, which, you know, for the best team in the league, winning three out of seven against them isn't bad.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: But but still, I mean, this Penguins team is so good.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: No one can stop them.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Also, the Islanders, the best player on the Islanders that year is a guy named Pierre Turzon.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: He had scored 58 goals.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm Pierre Turzon, very good player.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: But he was out of the series.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I remember.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember why?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's because uh Dale Hunter cheap shot him after the series.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Was that the series winning goal?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was the Dale Dale Hunter was a goon for the Washington Capitals.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: He cheap shots Pierre Turz on, he knocks him out of the playoffs.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's literally like, yeah, I scored a goal.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he like cross-checks him into the boards.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's I don't remember what happened to Dale Hunter, but I think at the time.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: He got suspended the next season for like 30 games.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was I remember it being like the longest suspension in NHL history.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: So they actually that was back when they actually cared about protecting the star players a little bit.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was just that agree that that was That's true.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was it wasn't there there was no excuse, oh, it's part of hockey, this is a hockey fight.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, the game was over, and he just literally went over and beat the crap out of them.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no reason.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good that's a very good point, Steve.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: There was there, yeah, because there wasn't so much of that.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was just that egregious.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: So so you're playing the Islanders who are a mediocre team and they don't have the 58 goal score.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: This figures to be another short series, but right off the bat, the Islanders win game one at Pittsburgh, and they shut down all of the Penguins goal scores.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, here's a here's a great like Who Wants to be a Millionaire, a million-dollar question.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Steve, can you guess who had the only two Pittsburgh goals in that game?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's two different players.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't know.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know which game is this?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Game one.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: First game.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I could name game seven.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: I know all Samuelson scored in game seven, I think.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, good guess.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the answer is Mike Needham and Jeff Daniels.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: So, so yeah, so no, none of the stars score in game one.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: The penguins do win the next two games, and Francis Jagger and Malin get some goals, but not Mario.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then the Islanders win game four to even the series, and a couple of things are happening at this point in the series.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, the Islanders have a defenseman, a guy named Darius Casparetis.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Casparitas, that's it, yeah.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he's all he is all over Mario.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: And and Lemie really can't do anything.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: And the Isers, the other Islanders defensemen are frustrating the other Penguin stars, too.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second thing is happening is the Islanders, their goaltender is a guy named Glenn Healy, who, again, mediocre goaltender, but in this series, he's really helping them steal games.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's really not like a great Islanders team, but everything kind of comes together for them in the series with the goaltending and the defense, plus they're scoring goals.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: They ended up scoring, they ended up scoring 23 goals in the final four games of the series.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's that's pretty impressive.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: And they say later that they really rallied around losing Terjon, especially the way that they lost him, Steve.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, it was just so unfair.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: And they really gave them something to rally around.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: The Penguins take game five, and now they have a chance to finish the series in Long Island in game six, but that turns into a disaster.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Casparetis, as we know from his time here in Pittsburgh later, he really had a knack for getting into people's heads.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we did that episode about Joey Porter, about how Joey Porter was so good at just mentally getting in people's heads.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Darius Casparetis was the hockey version of that, and boy, did he get into the penguins' head heads in this series.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: Penguins rack up 101 penalty minutes, and in this game, game six, Ron Francis gets a five-minute major in a game misconduct, retaliating.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Ron Francis, of all people.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and it really hurt because New York ends up scoring twice on the ensuing power play.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of those five minutes score as many as you can power plays, and they score twice and they win the game seven to five.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: So now it all comes down to game seven in Pittsburgh.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: The Penguins are just not playing well at this point.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: We mentioned the 101 penalty minutes, but even when they were on the power play, they weren't good.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: They had allowed four short-handed goals.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Four.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's a ton of short-handed goals in a s in a series.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Game seven starts off terribly as well.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Kevin Stevens collides with Ricky Pylon, and it's one of the most, I don't know, Steve, how do you even describe it?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Horrific.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's a good like he like has like having a seizure on the ice or something.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: It it looked bad.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was bad.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: He like, didn't he break like all the bones in his face or something?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what happens is he collides, he collides, and then he like loses consciousness like as he's like in mid-air.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so when he lands on the ice, he you know, normally you would be putting your brace, you'd brace yourself.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but he's knocked out and he hits the ice face first.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Stevens is rushed to the hospital.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: I guess at this point we progressed beyond leaving guys in the hallway outside the locker room.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank goodness.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Larry Murphy says that that really shook the team seeing that happen.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: And sure enough, the Islanders have a three-to-one lead with just four minutes left in the game.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: But this team is just too good to go down that easily.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Francis scores, and then with one minute left in their season, Talkett gets a goal on a deflection to force overtime.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, okay, we had to overcome some adversity, but this is a team of destiny.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: I remember watching that game, Steve, and I thought there there was zero doubt in my mind that the Penguins would get the overtime goal.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: They were just too good not to.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you didn't count on Tom Barraso, did you?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: I did not.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so at 5.16 of overtime, the Islanders get a two-on-one.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Ray Ferraro passes it to a little known Czech player named David Vullick.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: He blasts a shot pass Tom Barraso, and that ends the series.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and you want to talk about just shocking.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the Civic Arena just goes completely silent.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: No one can believe this just happened.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like it's a little different than 1976 because the the Oakland Raiders were a 13-and-one team who had been one of the best teams of that era.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: But this Islanders team, like we said, they weren't that good.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, they get they get pretty much boat raced in the conference finals against Montreal.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like that wasn't even close.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know the Penguins would have like we always that's always been a debate whether the Penguins would have beat Montreal.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Montreal was the cup winner that year.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: They they were.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: They had some guy in goal named Roy.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they had a very good goaltender.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, losing to the Islanders, I think, was just the idea of the thing.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you would have been more like, you know, oh, well, they lost to Montreal.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: They had Patrick Waugh and he was really good.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that would have been a great series.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then if they would have made the final year, the final would have been.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the Kings and Gretzky.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: It would have been Lemieux and Gretzky.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's honestly that I think that's what hurts is.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: That would have been the marquee LeBron and Curry and yeah, Magic and Bird.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, that was also the era where there was a big debate over, you know, who is better, Gretzky or Lemieux.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: And Mario beating him for the cup would have just cemented that argument, at least at that point.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just such a missed opportunity uh on so many different levels.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about the aftermath.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Stevens has major facial reconstruction.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's an ear-to-ear incision made at his hairline, a hundred stitches, metal plates to support the reassembled bones in his face.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: And when you have that kind of surgery, they give you pretty heavy painkillers.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: And Stevens unfortunately develops a pretty bad drug addiction.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: He actually spends time in prison, really ruins his life.
• 34:19
  unknown: Yeah.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Mario Lemieux never makes it back to the Stanley Cup Finals.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's the end of the dynasty.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: So again, unlike the 76 Steelers, where it was a missed opportunity, but then they won two more Super Bowls.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: This this Penguins team never never goes back to the Stanley Cup Finals.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh 30 years later, it remains I I'd say probably the biggest upset in the history of Pittsburgh Sports.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what comes close, Steve.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: I can you even think of anything that comes close?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe the Chargers beating the Steelers in that championship game, but the the the that Steelers team was nowhere near as good as the Yeah, and they hadn't won.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like this team was a proven winner.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, now nobody had three peeded and still hasn't since the 1983 Islanders.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: If I won my hockey.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you're you're accurate.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: I only remember that because I in 2017 I was really hoping the Penguins would three-peed, but it wasn't to be.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Craig Patrick, the general manager, says, quote, That was our best team.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: We had depth on defense.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: We had good goaltending.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: We had everything we needed.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: We had it right there.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I I just think again, it it hurt not just because of how good that team was, not just because they would have played against Gretzky, but I think what it would have meant for Mary's legacy, coming back from cancer, winning scores the scoring title, and then winning a third straight cup, just would have put him on a on a pretty lofty pinnacle.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Now, he's on a pretty lofty pinnacle as it is, but but I just that that one hurt.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: I I just and and having you know 76 steelers, I was too young for that the 93 Penguins, I I remember that season.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: I remember the excitement.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that sucked.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: It it really did.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: It hurt.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: It just hurt.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't know how the house to describe it.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: It just hurt.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a rough way to go.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Al Arbor was the coach of the Islanders, if anybody remembers.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: And he was the guy who I think he was the architect of the other Islanders teams that had won all those cups.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, and kudos to the Islanders.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can't take anything away from them because they they did it, and I think that was kind of their Stanley Cup.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's probably why they didn't fare well in the next series, because they they were just so focused on beating the Pens.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, Darius Casparitas, we ended up getting him a few years later because of that, and he ended up being a pretty good player for us.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, that that one just killed.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I I hate there's no team I feel like there's teams, there's rivals who you hate, like you hate the Flyers, you hate the Ravens, whatever.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: The Islanders, it's like this feeling of just dread.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's doom.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's total doom.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like they're done, they're never beating the Islanders.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: In a game that matters, it's well, except for that one time, Brooke Sorpik snuck one in in overtime.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, even going back to a couple years ago, Tristan Jari giving them the puck in double overtime.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's just always disaster.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's doom.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Doom's a great word for it, Steve.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just dread.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, yeah.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, that's the 93 Penguins.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: The the the third and final team on our list is the 1927 Pittsburgh Pirates.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: And similar to the two other teams on this list, were you around for that one, Tim?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was I I was I was still a little too young for that one, Steve.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: By like 50 years.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so so similar to those other two teams on the list, the the 76 Stewers and the 93 Penguins, the 27 Pirates, they had recently won a championship.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Unlike the other two teams, they weren't coming off back-to-back titles.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: So what happens is the Pirates win the World Series in 1925.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we we did a whole episode on that team.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then they have a really strong season in 1926 and and are looking to win back to back.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, they're in first place in August, but then the season breaks down thanks to some off-the-field drama, which Steve also covered in that previous episode.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that was yeah, Fred Clark decided to manage the team, even though they had a manager.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: So what happened was the Fred Clark.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: So if you don't know who Fred Clark was, he had played for and managed the Pirates for years, and he was very successful doing it.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, the Pirates won four pennants and a World Series under Fred Clark, but in 1926, the team is managed by a guy named Bill McCechney.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: He's the manager who had won the World Series the previous season.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: Of the McCeckney Field fame.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Fred Clark's still with the organization, but he's like in a front office role.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Fred Clark decides he wants to sit in the dugout in full uniform and give advice to the players, often which is like very critical advice, you know, not like, oh, attaboy, more like, you know, what were you thinking on that play kind of advice?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: And naturally, there's some players who don't like it, right?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, who's this guy?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: He's not the manager.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: What's he doing down here?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: And Steve, I think, I think the comparison you made was you said it would be like if the Steelers would hire Bill Cower, if Bill Cower was in the front office and then the Steelers stuck him on the sidelines to question all of Mike Tomlin's play calls and yell at players for getting stuff wrong, right?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: That would be a little awkward to say the least.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit, a little bit.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: It wouldn't it wouldn't work.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can't have two bosses.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't really work out well.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: So so three of the veteran players stage a revolt, but that doesn't work out, and then all three players get released, one of whom is team captain and hall of famer, Max Carey.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's a bad set of circumstances to have like a failed team mutiny, and then your team captain gets cut because of said mutiny when you're in a pennant race.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: And and the Pirates ultimately finished four games behind St.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: Louis in the National League standings, so they don't repeat in 1926, and then all that drama carries into the offseason.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Clark is criticized for what happened, and after the season, he resigns from the Pirates and literally severs all ties from the organization.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then the uh it impacts the manager too because the ownership's not really happy with the way Bill McKechney handles the whole thing.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: He gets fired.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, like uh almost a calendar year after winning the World Series.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, again, by way of comparison, Steve, imagine like the 1976 SORs that we talked about.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine if like Go Green gets waived because of an ugly players' revolt, and then like Dan Rooney severs all ties with the organization and Chuck Knoll gets fired.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was the equivalent of what happened here.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was crazy.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: So going into that 1927 season, you no one's really sure what to expect from the Pirates.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: They do have a new manager since they had fired McKetney.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's a guy named Donnie Bush, which I feel like is a great Pittsburgh name.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Donnie Bush is going to get them pirates playing right.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can guys know who the new manager is, Donnie Bush.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: So uh they also have a decent amount of roster turnover from that championship team of 25.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: So you still have some of the key players.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: Hall of Famer's Pi Hall of Famer Pie Trainer still there, Hall of Famer Kiki Kyler is still there.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's just a great name still.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Also a great name.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but there's some new guys who are becoming key players as well, specifically two brothers, Paul and Wayne.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: The Wayneers.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: What is it?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: What was it?
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: Big Trouble, Little Trouble, or Big Poison?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Poison.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Big Poison, Little Poison, yeah.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Big Poison, Little Poison.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Great, great nicknames.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: We we yeah, those that that's when we knew how to do nicknames.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: In the 20s.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you gotta sell papers, so you gotta figure out what a snappy nickname.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the Wayner brothers grew up on a farm in the Oklahoma territory.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: That was before Oklahoma was a state.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and their their father was a good baseball player too.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: His their dad had actually been offered a contract by the White Sox, but he's like, nah, I'd rather be a farmer because, you know.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, farmers are reliable gig.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Baseball is what'll happen.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so both boys get really good at baseball.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Paul, going into that 27th season, Paul is in his second season, Lloyd is in his first, and Lloyd is replacing Max Carey, who, like we said, was the team captain in Hall of Famer.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: He's replacing him in center field.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a big task.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: And the season starts off kind of slow.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: The Pirates are 10-9 out of the gate, which is, you know, obviously very mediocre.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: But then in May, their offense gets going.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: They go on an 11-game winning streak in which they score an average of 7.4 runs per game.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: Which is that's a lot for baseball, seven runs a game.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: Averaging, yeah.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: That means there are a lot of games they scored over seven runs.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh for all you math majors out there.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: The uh the it's it's kind of like the 93 Penguins, where they're just kind of overwhelming people with their scoring.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: And and and they're in a really tight pennant race all season with the Giants and Cardinals.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: That would be the New York baseball Giants.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: That was when the Giants played in New York.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if you look at when the Pirates won the pennant in 1925, that year they were the only team to crack 90 wins.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: But in 1927, there are three teams who reached 90 wins.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: So the Pirates really have to be better than everybody else.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: Their pitching is pretty good.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: They have three 19 game winners on that team.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: So they have decent pitching, but ultimately they really just bat their way through the competition.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: So Paul Weyner, his season, he leads the National League in hits, triples, batting average, and RBIs.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: His 237 hits are almost 100 years later, still a Pirates record.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: His 131 RBIs are still a Pirates record.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: He sets the major league record.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: For consecutive games with an extra base hit with 14.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: So he had 14 games in a row where he has an extra base hit.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Either a double, triple, or home run.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: Since night since Paul Wayner did that in 1927, the only other time someone's done that for 14 straight games, Chipper Jones in 2006.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I would have guessed Barry Bonds, but wow.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how rare that was.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: Wayner's the National League MVP.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: A fun fact about Paul Wayner, he had an astigmatism, and and it made the ball, the baseball look like great proof-sized because of the astigmatism.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so you think that would be a problem.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: He'd want to wear like glasses or something to fix that.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: But he said because the ball looked bigger, he was able to hit it better.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Does he realize the ball was the same size?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was altered.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: Something about that.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I always just thought that was a good thing.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: You would think that would hinder your ability to hit the exactly.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: You'd think he'd miss because you're swinging at something that's not there, but apparently it helped.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I say.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: So Paul Wayner just a season for the ages.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Again, record team records that still stand to this day.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: Not to be outdone.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: Little brother Lloyd, that's 355 with 223 hits.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: So Paul Wayne for the.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: The season?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you did that now, you'd be like the batting champion by like 30 points, probably.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and if you think about Paul Wayner set the team record for hits with 237, his brother had 223.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: He wasn't that far behind.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and Lloyd is the leadoff hitter for the uh National League.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: He leads the league and runs scored.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: And they said that infielders of that era traditionally played deep in their positions, but Wayner made them play closer to compensate for his speed as a runner.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: So Lloyd Wayner is also very fast.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Pie Trainer, like we said, is still there.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: He hits 342, which is like nothing compared to the Wayner brothers, but 342 would be your best player, you know, potentially today.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: The Pirates have seven hitters over 300.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: The team as a whole batted 305.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's insane.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it's just an offensive powerhouse of a roster.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, by the way, last year, McNeil for the Mets, 326.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: Was that the batting champion?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the batting average, the best batting average.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yes.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 355, pretty good.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Jeff McNeil for he's the second baseman for the Mets.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's a good comparison.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: So just like the 76 Stewarters with the Bradtaw injury, just like the 93 Penguins with Mario's cancer diagnosis, the 1927 Pirates experienced some heavy adversity also.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, unlike those other two teams, this adversity is very much self-inflicted.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: So as we mentioned, Donnie Bush is the manager, and he has a feud with Pirate Star Kiki Kyler.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Kyler is unhappy about being switched from third to second in the batting order, and allegedly he doesn't play very hard for a few games to protest.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's a game against the Giants where he doesn't slide into second base on a double play ball to try to break up the double play, and Bush fines him$50, which I think was probably a lot in 1927.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: $50.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what's that rank for inflation?
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's more than$50 today, I can tell you that.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: Donnie Bush basically bent his Kiki Kyler for the last two months of the regular season.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: What the heck?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: And this does this does not go over well with the fans.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: Kyler was a World Series hero, and the fans are coming to Forbes Field literally chanting for Kyler to be put in the game.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Bush tries to explain his decision in the media.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: He says, Oh, there's nothing personal against Kyler.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: He's just not playing up to standards and blah, blah, blah.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: But that's that's a little bit of horseman work because Kyler was he felt his war was slipping.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Donnie Bush was in the stats.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: Kyler was hitting 309 at the time.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he doesn't believe in batting average.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about the about the OBS and well, the the other thing is the guys that he's replaced being replaced with are basically like minor league call-ups.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh so this sounds like he's saying it's not personal, but it sounds personal.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, years later, Donnie Bush gives an interview where he finally admits that it was.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: He says, What happened is that he used to always argue with Kiki Kyler about throwing too high for the cutoff man.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: And one day, Kyler's coming in um to the bench, and Bush says to him, Won't you ever learn to throw the ball?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: And Kyler says, You know what?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't like the way I play, then get somebody else.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: And Bush says, Okay, I will.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's literally what happens.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, he's like, okay, I will.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then to prove a point, he benches him for two months, the last two months of the season.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of just like a game or two or a series, no, literally what, August and September.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: Here's Donnie Bush years later, quote, it had to be that way.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: I had to maintain discipline.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: The real reason I benched him for was for what he said to me after the high throw.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: I had great respect for Kyler as a player.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: If he had apologized to me, I would have put him back in the lineup, but he never did.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: End quote.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that's some pretty impressive stubbornness.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: Two months.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's holding it, Grass.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think the other interesting thing, Steve, is that 100 years ago, fans took the side of the player, whereas I feel like that would be reverse today.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: You think?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, think about like Antonio Brown and Le'Veon Bell.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: When was the last time anyone ever cited sided with a diva player?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, 1927.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: Is the answer to that question.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: 1927, 95.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, seriously.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: What is 90, 95 years ago?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, Kiki Kyler was I I I diva.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if he was a diva.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: But but he's he's intentionally.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: For that era, maybe.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, he's he's in potentially like like taking plays off to protest.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's you know, he's he's basically being a smart mouth to his coach, you know, like, oh, you know, you don't like you don't like it, go get somebody else, right?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: So uh that that for that era, that's kind of diva-ish.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like again, if that were today, the yeah, bench him.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: Don't put we don't need that to bring in the team cancer and everything else.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, but at that point, the fans were mad at the manager, not at Kiki Kyler.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: So even without Kiki Kyler, the Py the Pirates do battle their way past New York and St.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: Louis.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: They win the pennant.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: Their opponent in the World Series that year is the New York Yankees, who happen to be arguably the greatest baseball team of all time.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: They have a lineup that was called Murderer's Row.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: It consists of Earl Combs, Mark Coning, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrick, Bob Mutual, and Tony Lazzari.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: Those six players were the reason that that 1927 Yankees team scores nearly a thousand runs, and they outscore their opponents in the game.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: In 156 games.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: They outscore their opponents by a record of 376 runs.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Gehrig is the American League MVP.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: Babe Ruth hits 60 home runs.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: No one will ever top that.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh never.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and oh, and to this day, the 1927 Yankees still have the highest all-time single win single season winning percentage in American League history.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: Their winning percentage was 0.721.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: No one's ever topped that in the American League.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: How many wins overall did they have?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: They were definitely over 90, or maybe probably over 100.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: Probably.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have that in front of me.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: But the point being that they're they're an all-time great team.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it's going to be a tough fight, but I mean, hey, the, you know, the Cardinals had beaten the Yankees in seven games the year before in the World Series.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: And the Pirates, as we detailed, they have a pretty dagger on the game.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: The Yankees had 110 wins.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: Which is pretty good.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's insane.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's insane.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: They lost 44 games the whole year.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Which the Pirates might only win 44 games this year.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: So so yeah, definitely going to be a tough series.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: But again, the Pirates were really good.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: We did we said all that stuff about you know Paul Wayner and everything else.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like the Pirates were an easy out either.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: So game one of the World Series is at Pittsburgh, and the Yankees score a bunch of runs early.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: The Pirates battle back.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: In the bottom of the ninth inning, the Yankees are clinging to a 5-4 lead, and the pitcher spot is due up.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: So Donnie Bush needs to send out a pinch hitter.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: Guess who's on the bench, Steve?
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: Kiki Kyler.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's Hall of Fame World Series hero, Kiki Kyler.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: But instead, Donnie Bush sends up a guy named Fred Bickle, Fred Brickle, a reserve outfielder who only had 21 at bats during the whole season, and he grounds out to the pitcher and the Pirates lose.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's insane.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the fans cannot believe that Donnie Bush would basically sacrifice a chance to win the first game of the World Series because he's mad at Kiki Kyler.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um 1927 Twitter lights up with Firebook hashtags.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: The ticker, the ticker on the little thing.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I again The Pittsburgh Post Gazette is saying, ah my gosh.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: The commons section in the Pittsburgh.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's really comments section.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was an editorial.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: Letters to the editor.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: Dear sir, I am highly offended by the actions of our manager.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, but seriously, I mean, they needed, you know, it's five to four.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: All they need is a run to tie the game.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: And they you have the best player out there.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or like one of your best players, yeah.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, like I said, really impressive level of pettiness and stubbornness and grudge holding on the part of Donnie Bush.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the issue, oh, the the issue is so bad.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: So the owner of the team at that point is Barney Dreyfus, who we've talked about before.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: And Barney Dreyfus even has to issue a statement because there's so much fear about this.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: But it's kind of a weak statement, Steve.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what he says quote, it is solely an issue between Bush and Kyler.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: If Bush wants to play Kyler at any time, he is free to do so.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what the heck does that mean?
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: He is free to do so.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's his team.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's gonna yeah.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: Washing his hands of it.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're the owner, right?
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, but so that was I thought that was kind of weird.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: Barney Dreyfus did a lot of great things, but I thought that statement was kind of weak.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he handled it behind closed doors, or maybe not.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's see.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for a guy that let Fred Clark sick in the dugout, I don't know.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: True.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: The issue the issue does come up again in game two at Forbes Field.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: In the eighth inning of that game, the Yankees are winning big, but the Pirates are trying to stage a comeback, and again, the Pirates need a pinch hitter.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: And here's the New York Times recap of that game.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just gonna read a quote from the New York Times, and I'm gonna try to read it 1927 journalistic.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: Quote, okay, the fans rose by the thousands and set up a deafening clamor for Kiki Kyler, but Donnie Bush was obdurate and called on Earl Smith amid a storm of boos and jeers and catcalls.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: Stead citizens jumped up and waved their fists in Bush's direction when Smith grounded weakly to Lou Gehrig.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: Another chorus of derisive tears and laughter greeted the failure of Kyler's substitute.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: New York Times.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that sounded like something from uh what's his name?
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can't say that.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I was going for.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'll take that as a compliment.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: So so again, not gonna play Kiki Kyler, gonna put up some bum, and everybody's not not happy.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: The Pirates drop the first two games at home.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: The Yankees blow them out in game three in New York.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and you would think, you know, at this point, these murderer murderers row guys would just be pounding out home runs and slugging the pirates to death, but that's not really what's happening.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, the Yankees only hit two home runs in the entire series, both of them by Babe Ruth.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: Who's that guy?
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: He'll never remember.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he was okay.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's a bunch of runs scored due to pirates' mistakes.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: In that that first game, three of the five runs that the Yankees scored are due to walks and errors.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then two runs in the second game are due to a wild pitch and a hit batsman.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, yes, the Yankees are very good, right?
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: But the Pirates are kind of shooting themselves in the foot a lot.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: So now the Pirates have their backs to the ball in game four.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: They play a good game.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: The Wayner brothers are hitting well, and the game is tied going into the bottom of the ninth inning.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: But the Yankees get the first two men on base, and guess who's up at the plate?
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's Babe Freaking Ruth with the series on the line.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you don't want to pitch to him.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: The Pirates intentionally walk him, which means now Pirates pitcher Johnny Milges has the bases loaded with nobody out, and Lou Gehrig is up at the plate.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that was uh that was like what do they call that?
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: A uh pick your poison.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, pretty much.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, really, all Lou Gehrig has to do here is hit a fly ball to the outfield, and that's the end of the series.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: But Johnny Milges strikes out Lou Gehrig.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: Then he strikes out a second murder's rogue guy, Bob Mujual.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: And now Tony Lazari is up, and the Pirates are about to get out of this huge dam to save their season when Johnny Mill just throws a wild pitch.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: The runner from third scores, and that's how the season ends.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of anticlimatic.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean you have Lou Gehrig up with the bases loaded and you strike him out.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_02: Then you have the second guy up with the bases loaded and you strike him out, and then you throw a wild pitch.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was probably the most way, the most fitting way for the pirates season to end, quite honestly.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's a bitter loss.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, okay.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_02: Were they going to beat the 1927 Yankees?
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe not.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_02: But getting swept and giving up runs with wild pitches and errors and walks, they were a better team than that.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Barney Dreyfus after the series says, quote, no team that is good enough to win the championship of a major league should lose four straight games to the pennant winner of the rival league.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think he has a point there.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: Barney wasn't happy.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, there's a difference between losing to the 1927 Yankees and getting swept, right?
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: So a team that good, a team that had that many, that much, scoring seven runs a game and you know, setting the record for hits and RBIs and everything else, you think they should have won at least one game.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: So the aftermath of this team, uh, when the series ends, the Wayner brothers join Ruth and Garrick on a 16-week vaudeville circuit, with Paul playing the saxophone and Lloyd playing the violin because 1920s.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're making that up, right?
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not making that up.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: That happened.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: That happened.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: That happened.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: What year is this nice?
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: So this is Prohibition.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I can only imagine what they were what was going on in those speakeasies, huh?
• 59:20
  unknown: Wow.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: I heard Paul Wayner played a wonderful sacks, but yeah.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh after the season, the Pirates trade Kiki Kyler to the Cubs.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: So that's two years in a row where the pilot the Pirates dump a future Hall of Famer because of a feud with the team.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_02: Donnie Bush manages the Pirates to a fourth place finish in 1928 and then abruptly resigns in the middle of the 1929 season.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_02: At the time, the sporting news notes that you know many of the Pittsburgh fans had turned against Bush when he benched Kyler in 1927, and then he'd never been able to get the local fans behind him.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_02: So um, but that's probably true.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if they were that mad at him in 1927, I doubt they forgave him with a fourth place finish and Kiki Kyler being traded in 1928.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: So uh Donnie Bush remains in baseball for the rest of his life.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, when he dies at age 84, he's actually working as a scout for the White Sox.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: So Donnie Bush really did love baseball, but just didn't love when Kiki Kyler, you know, I'll thought him that one time gave him lip.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and I think I think like the 93 Penguins, this one hurts because again, that's like the 93 Penguins, that team never makes it back to the World Series.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe it hurts even more only because they kind of did themselves in with a lot of internal dysfunction, right?
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like what happens if they're not if they don't have Fred Clark in the dugout and Kiki Kyler and Donnie Bush feuding with each other, right?
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do they win more than one championship?
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: You could argue that they do.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's kind of like you are right.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's three different ways.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like the Steelers were injuries, the Penguins were kind of injuries, maybe they overlooked the Islanders, and this was just totally self-inflicted collapse.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and the in the Penguins, it was a big upset, you know, that the Pirates were playing the best team ever, you know.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: So just very different ways that they all met their demise, like I said at the beginning, but but a lot of similarities too, and and definitely three teams that you know you could argue that the that any of those three teams were better than you know, pick one of the other teams that actually won a championship.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: So but like you said earlier, Steve, that's that's the way it goes in sports sometimes, right?
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean you never know, it's unpredictable, that's why we watch.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, it would have been nice if they would have given them more of a series and the Islanders and just have the Penguins number.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like the Penguins have the Capitals number, the Islanders have our number.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I don't know.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've heard great things about the 76 Steelers, but I didn't realize they started off the season so badly.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe if they start off the season a little better, they have a home game or I don't know.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: I get the feeling that team just got unlucky, just with injuries.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I really do.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or if Joe Gillam doesn't go on drugs, maybe they win too.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like they have actually like a real quarterback.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: That that's that's a good point as well.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: I I I think that uh you know, going through the adversary, you could also argue going through the adversity made them stronger, you know, and again, that's why uh like I said, all three of those teams had a huge middle of the season thing they had to overcome.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it looked like they had, and then you know, it didn't matter in the end.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_02: All right, folks, I hope you enjoyed that.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks as always for listening to our little podcast here.
• 1:02:47
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• 1:02:53
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• 1:02:56
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• 1:02:58
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• 1:03:04
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• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, and we will catch you next time.