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The Confident Presenter with Ryan Millar · The Authority Podcast — Expert Insights and Fresh Ideas for Education Leaders

• Ross Romano: [00:00:00] Welcome in, everybody. You are listening to the Authority Podcast on the Be Podcast Network. Thanks as always for being with us. Excited to bring you a conversation here about public speaking. That topic, that, that monster in the closet for many of us, that that fear that we've overcome, that thing that we can always continue to get better at, even if we've had a lot of experience and success. There's always new techniques. Techniques, strategies, tips for reaching new audiences and it can make all the difference and certainly for you as leaders Something that makes an impact, right? So my guest is Ryan Millar. Ryan is a Canadian born Amsterdam based coach, story trainer and communications consultant All of his work draws heavily on his [00:01:00] 25 plus years of it as an improviser He got his start in Vancouver, British Columbia in the late 90s with Instant Theater, and he's worked with Boom Chicago and Toward Europe, teaching and performing at festivals. His latest book is called The Confident Presenter. That's what we're talking about today. Ryan, welcome to the show. Ryan Millar: Ross, thank you very much. It's great to be here. Ross Romano: Ryan, if I can start with potentially a dumb question, but one that could be helpful to our listeners. What is public speaking, and what are we talking about? When we're referring to that, you know, does it take place in certain contexts and environments or is it just any time we're speaking to anybody? How would you define it? Ryan Millar: Ross, that's not a dumb question. First of all, that's a great question. And I think it, when people think of public speaking, they imagine, you know, standing in a meeting room or in a conference hall and, you know, broadcasting to a big audience. But in fact, public speaking, if you [00:02:00] break the words down, it's You know, you talking in public, so not in private, to someone else. So, I mean, you could play with those definitions a little bit and say, you know, you're talking to your partner and then suggesting where you go on holiday. Maybe it's not public, but you know, you're still communicating with someone else and trying to convey a point. You talking with your mates at the, you know, at the beach or at the ballgame or, you know, out for dinner. All the way up to those those examples I cited earlier of speaking in a more professional context. And I think they all count as public speaking, and they have the same root. skills that we need to work on or that I cover in the book. So they're applicable to different degrees in different contexts, but there's pretty much it's the same bag of, I don't want to call them tricks, but let's call them bag of tricks. Ross Romano: What like, what did you notice that got you started with [00:03:00] teaching public speaking? How did you identify that, I guess, as an area of need? Ryan Millar: Well, I mean, this is how it happened for me. So first of all, it's, I'm a middle child. So older brother, younger sister, so famously middle children are quite keen for attention, let's say. And I was a performer since I was very young on stage, and I always loved being in the spotlight, and as I grew up, I more and more realized that was something that was kind of unique to me, and I found a channel for that, which was, you know, as you mentioned in my intro, was improv comedy and improv theater, and as I grew up and that became more of a hobby, and I was working professionally, and, I realized that quite a lot of people would have to give a presentation and would, I think by their own admission, struggle or at least be uncomfortable and not enjoy the [00:04:00] experience. For me, what that led me to do was to develop some teaching materials. that were about learning to enjoy yourself more as a public speaker, as a presenter. Because the way I see it is that if you're uncomfortable when you're presenting, the audience, who always sort of mirrors what a public speaker is doing, is also then going to be uncomfortable. And if you are comfortable and relaxed, and of course, we hope that there's a good reason that you're comfortable and relaxed, because you know what you're going to say, you're well prepared, etc., etc. All right. But the audience will then relax as well and then you're in this positive cycle where you are getting more relaxed and you are enjoying it and the audience is enjoying it and more are more receptive to your message. So it's like if you're on the in the vicious cycle, it's just going to get more uncomfortable and you're going to be more unhappy, but if you can turn that around, then [00:05:00] it starts going the other direction and that's what I want. That's the path I want to set people on. (ad here) Ross Romano: Yeah. Is it fair to say the title is The Confident Presenter and that's covered in your introduction and in your story of getting into this work is noticing the importance of that confidence. And I'm wondering, is it fair to say that all effective public speakers are confident but not all confident public speakers are effective? I was. You know, thinking about speakers I've observed over the years, right? And of course, how important it is to convey confidence on the stage. Like you said, it's uncomfortable to listen to somebody who's clearly uncomfortable up there, no matter what they're saying. And, you know, but of course, I'm sure that confidence itself doesn't necessarily mean that you're successfully communicating what you want to communicate as a speaker. But you tell me if that's accurate.[00:06:00] Ryan Millar: Oh, I think, Ross, I think that's very accurate. And I think that, I think the amount of people who are confident without really having anything to back it up. It's not that many, but it's really noticeable if someone is up there and, you know, talking and, you know, sort of embarrassing themselves or whatever, because they're, they don't know what they're talking about. That doesn't happen very often, but, you know, we all notice when it does. I think that it's much more common that people who, in fact, should be very confident because they know all of the material. You know, it's someone who's written the, You know, they're PhD on something and then they get up and they're, you know, they have their face buried in their notes or, you know, they're hiding behind the lectern. They speak with, you know, quite a soft voice, you know, all of these things that sort of makes the audience like, Oh, what's going on and start shifting uncomfortably looking at their watch. And then the person, you know, even though they're buried in their notes, they can hear [00:07:00] that, you know, the tapping of the pencils and they start speeding up and speaking, you know, and it's just like, Oh, God, get me out of here. You know, this is not nobody's enjoying this, nobody's learning anything, the person is not, who's presenting is not getting the respect they deserve, and the people who are listening are not having their time valued because, you know, the person who's presenting is not doing so in an effective way, and it's that kind of situation that, I was like, that's what I want to do. Avoid, or that's what I want to teach people how to take control of their own, you know, plane in that situation and maneuver you know, take flight and maneuver their presentation. And that was also why the book. Is written at a, I don't want to say an entry level, but it's, I tried to write it so it's accessible to everyone. I think if you're if you're already quite a confident and wonderful presenter, there will still be things in here that are valuable for you. And especially if you're not so comfortable, and you're, that's the kind of person who would [00:08:00] be seeking out a book like The Confident Presenter, then you would get into that book and you would, my book, and you would be like, Oh, okay, great, so here's a couple things I can do right away, and oh, already I'm feeling better. And that's what I wanted to do, to accomplish. Ross Romano: Yeah, and I think part of what you referenced brings up point reacts versus app to the audience, right? You mentioned sort of that reaction of, okay, it seems like they're bored. Let me speed up. You know, and that. Maybe physiological response we may have if we're already nervous to say, let me just hurry up and get out of here versus, you know, I'm sure, and with different types of public speaking, at least there can certainly be a more positive way of gauging audience response. Okay, I'm five minutes into this. Do I seem to have them interested and engaged? What's happening next? And it's making me wonder, [00:09:00] one, You know, I think part of it is maybe exploring what that connection is between improv and public speaking and two things that at least what they have in common is that you're you have an audience. Right? But there's other things where people may not necessarily think that they're the same. And I guess that also, you know, Relates to what is your perspective on memorization and what, how important it is to, you know, have that entire presentation planned out, mapped out in your head versus having maybe an outline or an idea of where you want to go and then seeing how the audience is reacting to that or is that case by case but how do you approach that? Ryan Millar: Ross, what I'm gonna try and do here is I'm gonna, I think there were two questions in there, and I'm gonna try and answer them sequentially. And then if I don't, I want you to put me back on track. But the first question I think was [00:10:00] about connection with the audience and sort of acknowledging what's going on in the moment. And the second question was about memorization. So the first question, I want to tell you a quick story, which was, I was teaching, I used to teach masterclasses for the Guardian newspaper in London, called Learn to Love Presenting in Public Speaking, something like that. And one of these iterations, there's normally 40 people in this big meeting room, And we'd gone three quarters of the way through our morning, and I was teaching a session on narrative structure. So it's like, how do you make your story make sense? And what you're going to do is you're going to get into small groups and you're going to, you know, we're going to see how we can kind of, I can't remember what the exercise was exactly, but it was like, how can you kind of take an event and do a beginning, middle, and end? And I noticed that people were sort of looking at each other and like, it wasn't landing my [00:11:00] instructions. And so I was like, okay, hold on. I'm sort of sensing a weird vibe in here. What? What is happening? Like, is this, does this not make sense? What's going on? And someone spoke up and was like, Ryan, what if we're just scared? And I was like, oh, okay, I see what's happened. It's like, I had, it had worked with groups in the past, but for whatever reason, this dynamic, this group, they just weren't ready for the exercise, or, you know, if you, to put it into public speaking terms, you know, this next set of slides, or this next, section because they weren't ready to move on and so I was like okay, I'm what point in that moment is there for me to go doesn't matter, sorry, suck it up, here we go, you know, you got to do, this is my, we got lunch coming in half an hour, we got to get through this exercise, right? So I, I just went and I made up on the spot as an improviser, like sort of a very simple, like, this is how you, I [00:12:00] want everyone to have this experience of having the attention on you benevolently for like five seconds. And that was kind of the exercise and they, everyone had this chance to kind of be in the. in the spotlight a little bit and just sort of get over that bit of nerves. And the, and then we had lunch and the rest of the day was fine and we didn't cover, you know, let's say the last, you know, two modules because we spent more time in the earlier section to make sure that everyone got what, or the group got what the group needed out of that session. And I think having, I mean, and that's something I guess that I can do because I've got a lot of experience, but I think. Anyone can be, as you said, like we pay attention. We know on some level when the audience starts shifting or something isn't landing or there's a question, you know, even if we're speaking to another person, you can see, you know, whether they want to or not this is happening. You know, micro [00:13:00] expression of like, wait, what? Or, you know, hold on, or they're trying to figure something out and you can always stop. Okay, hold on. That makes sense. And often the person will say, no, or they'll say yeah, I get it. Or did you mean, you know, they'll question you for clarification and then you can move on. And it's just about not forgetting that connection that you have as a presenter. With your audience. So, so that's part one. And then the part two is about memorization. And my personal feeling is don't memorize. So what you want to do, I think, or the way I often consult, like coach people is to say, you know, You want to say the same thing every time, but not in the same way. So, if you're a professionally trained actor you know, and you've got a script by Arthur Miller or William [00:14:00] Shakespeare or whomever, then, yeah, by all means you want to get those word perfect. You know, bless you and your listeners, you're not Arthur Miller, or, you know, Edward Albee, or any, you know, playwright and so, we, if we're a bit more playful with our language, or a bit more, we're like, okay, I know the points I want to, I have, this is the topic of my presentation, for, to give an example, this is a topic of my presentation, these are the three main points I want to hit, and here's a couple supporting points For each of those main points that all support my main point, then you need to know what all of those items are, but you don't need to neither memorize nor read them out, and I think that's the that's the main thing, and I have a tip for how people can get better at knowing what they're going to say, but not memorizing, which is, If people [00:15:00] use speaker notes, if we're talking about using, you know, PowerPoint or Google Slides or whatever and you're using speaker notes, and even for your slides, I would say right up until maybe even the day before, or even the morning of, you can tweak those components. So, I think when stuff gets set in stone, if it's like, oh, I've got a presentation in two weeks, My slides are done. Then there's this kind of over preparation that can happen where it gets too wooden because we just recite it, you know, and then we can kind of recite it in our sleep. And then when we have to present, we kind of do recite it in our sleep. But if you're like, oh, I need to change these words, or, oh, I want to move something here or there, It keeps it a little, it keeps it from becoming stale, so that's a, I find that to be a really good technique for not letting your information get too stale, and also keeping it from getting memorized, because it stays, it can go into your long term memory, but it doesn't [00:16:00] get locked in as like, this word and this line followed the line before all the way from beginning to end. Ross Romano: Yeah, I mean, I think certainly planning ahead, visualization, right, you know, going through your remarks, just kind of getting comfortable with saying what you want to say is all great. But I've never been an advocate for the memorization and we could use, you know, as an example, this medium of podcasting where I have as on both ends of it as a PR rep, you know, supporting people who are being interviewed on podcasts and then as a podcaster myself, where, as long as you know, what. I don't recommend having the exact questions and then because that people want to write out what they want to say and then, you know, if it goes. a little bit [00:17:00] differently than how it's scripted, then you're losing your place. If you have really spent time memorizing exactly what you want to say, and then you forget you, you just much more inflexible and you, that frustration and it's harder to adjust versus just having some notes for yourself to say, Oh yeah, I wanted to say something about this and let me just. Think about what I want to say instead of worrying about exactly what were the words that I had, right? And so it often has the opposite effect of what somebody wants it to have Which is it if it doesn't go exactly according to plan which? Rarely, it will then it just puts you in a spot where you're having a hard time recovering and So that relates to, you know, the, I guess there's the planning versus the presentation slash, you know, the performance part of the and how weighted, I [00:18:00] guess, do you think each of those parts are to to you know, a public speaking engagement, a presentation that's ultimately successful, the planning of, Coming up with what you want to say and what are the ideas and all of that versus how you actually deliver it. Ryan Millar: yeah, that's a great question. I'm thinking, though I haven't used this analogy before, but I'm thinking of the preparation is being, I'm thinking of it as like three dominoes, and preparation as the biggest domino, right? Like, that's the one that will give you the momentum to, to carry through, you know, the performance the presentation and the performance. You've got a really strong and clear idea of what you're going to say. And you prepare very effectively, and so like, like you just talked about, you're not memorizing, you know, and this is, you know, as you say, like, it's so noticeable, for example, when an interviewer is not [00:19:00] really listening, right? They're just like, okay, next question, and then they, you know, and everyone notices, you know, but the interviewer is like, well, I'm keeping on track. But it's like the audience can hear that you're not responding to what's going on, and the person who's, you know, being interviewed, the same. But, if you're really prepared, then you know what you're gonna say you're, everything the other person is saying triggers something for you that relates more or less to the topic being discussed and, you know, and it all can flow very organically. And that's the, that preparation is the big domino. And then the performance, a good performance can come from having the weight of that strong domino. Now, I have, for example in my improv practice one of the shows that I do is a solo improv performance that involves no preparation whatsoever.[00:20:00] And it's a bit experimental, but the, it tends to go quite well. But the idea is that it's, I'm relying only on what's happening in the moment. So I'm trying to sort of protect myself from relying on the preparation. So I go up there. With kind of without any idea and then co create with the audience what that show is going to be about and that, you know, tends to work very well, but you know, not always. And that's part of the, that's part of the risk, part of the fun. But in general, I would say, In general I would say the more preparation you do the better your outcome is going to be and the example I use is Martin Short. You know the comedian, The actor Martin Short, only murders in the building, yeah, Honey I Shrunk The Kids etcetera. But when he goes on a talk show and he's supposed to be the He's, like, regarded as the best talk show guest of all time, but he sends in, like, pages and pages of notes to the [00:21:00] show's producers, and then he gets on the phone for an hour and a half with the show's producers, there was a great article in Vulture about this and then he, you know, he does all this preparation, and they winnow it down, and they figure out what, you know, what, exactly what he's gonna talk about, and then he goes out there for five or ten minutes, and he can just relax. Or as he says, do an impression of himself relaxed, because he says he gets very nervous. But it's because he knows he's got all that preparation behind him, so whatever comes out is going to relate to what they talked about, what they want to have happen, and he can just enjoy himself. And it's like, yeah, that's the, we're not all going to be on, you know, you know, Seth Meyers or with Conan O'Brien or whatever, but we can be inspired, or we can take that lesson and apply it to our own life, which is the more preparation, The more you can relax and enjoy yourself. Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great example. And certainly that right. You're prepared. Doesn't mean, doesn't need to be knowing [00:22:00] exactly what you're going to say, but it just means. It's being prepared for the environment that you're in, the audience you're speaking to, right, and how you want to present yourself, and what are some of the things that might work for them, and then putting yourself in that place, and then knowing, okay, once I'm there, I have this. This whole variety of ways that I can relate to them and it doesn't need to go exactly one way, um, and knowing that all of that, you know, the more in that case, the more preparation, the more allows you to come off more naturally, right? Ryan Millar: Yeah it's the great irony of that. And I think the, you know, we talked about that vicious cycle before. And I think I've identified, you know, in, in some of my coaching and the trainings where some people sort of develop this mental block around public speaking or presenting. And so what do they do? They ignore it. They know they have a date [00:23:00] in their calendar. Three weeks from, you know, from now where they have to give a, you know, a 10 minute presentation with, you know, within the company, whatever. And they don't think about it, because when they think about it, it stresses them out, so they put it away, and it sort of becomes this, like, gnawing dread, and so they have, they're having this very negative association with it, and they're also not preparing, and then, like, the day before, they kind of panic. make a deck or they borrow some existing slides and they put something together and then they just put their head down and just like this is going to be the terrible 10 minutes for everybody but I'll just get through it and then it's like okay so that's one way you know to do it but it's that three weeks was shitty for you that three weeks was tough for you and for your you know that presentation wasn't good for your colleagues but what if we just a little bit You know, we're like, so have a conversation, you know, what would you [00:24:00] want to say, what would you want people to know, or what did you know, sure your you ran some A B tests and you thought they would tell you this and instead it was a waste of time, or you the company had to tighten their belt and so that involves some, you know, some difficult decisions. What did you learn? How did that affect you? You know, what kind of whatever it is, you start having these conversations and then a little by little as you go through that three weeks, you actually end up with something that is not just getting you through that 10 minutes of presentation, but actually has some value for you and for your audience. And I'm like, that's, you know, that's what we want. Yeah. Ross Romano: Is key and because, you know, I want to talk about kind of the goal setting around this and it's, you know, I would, I guess define like the goal of your presentation is to. Positively impact your audience and turn, you know, based on the circumstances, there's different ways. You might want to [00:25:00] make an impact on that, but the goal is not to say what you want to say the goal is not to, you know, the goal is to prepare yourself to have a positive impact on the people who are there to listen to you. And I think that gets to 1. I think, you know, some people who struggle with this get tied up into a view of preparation that is probably not preparation, like writing it all out, right? And, you know, some people might say, well, if I write everything down, then I'm super prepared. To me, I might say, well, that's actually the least prepared you could be, because you're not actually preparing to deliver that, you're just writing it down and saying, good, now I can read it, and it's in front of me, and, but are you actually prepared to give a presentation? And you can, just using a completely non professional, you know, layman's example of it, think [00:26:00] about something like, You know, the wedding toasts that you've heard, right? And the exact same joke that somebody might have. How does it, you know, what impression does it make on you when you see them up there reading it off a piece of paper versus the person who is just, you know, seems like they're just speaking? And I'm sure that, you And a lot of people in those cases, right, who aren't professional public speakers are thinking, wow, they just got up there and winged it, you know, no, I'm sure that this person thought about what they wanted to say, and put a lot of thought into it enough so that they could get up there and speak without notes. And. You know, and every single time that I've been in a situation where I was up there speaking without notes, later on, I always say, Oh, I forgot about this thing. I forgot. Guess what? Who cares? Because you're in the moment and it was natural and it was designed for, [00:27:00] you know, for the purpose of the people who are listening for them to be interested in it and to feel like it was engaging. But to the, so to the goals piece, right? Because there's a variety of different strategies, techniques and things that you write about in the book that people may use to spruce up their presentation and to get it where they want to be. But I think it all depends on starting with, who am I speaking to? What impact am I trying to make? What are the takeaways? Do I want them to be? Emotionally impacted. Do I want them to remember certain key points, et cetera? But how would you talk through kind of that goal setting strategy as a way to then determine, all right, here's some of the techniques I can use to achieve that. Ryan Millar: yeah, I mean, I think it depends on the, in a way it depends on the level, I think, of who is, you know, who I'm talking to because for me what I want from the person is I want them to be confident and competent, [00:28:00] you know, and so necessarily they need to, you know, have a clear message and a clear idea of who they're speaking to and those have to be confident. intertwined, right? Because you can't have this, you know, I, I need them to understand the specifics of how a rocket, you know, manages to, you know, go through, go and get into orbit, or, you know, like blast through the atmosphere. You're like, your audience is like kindergarteners. It's like, okay, I have to present that, you know, I have to rethink my information, rethink my goal, rethink how I'm gonna, you know, How I'm going to get that across, you know, and then it's like, okay, so in that case, you're going to talk more about like, what's out in space, you know, or whatever it is, you have to kind of take that same information and adapt it. And then it's like, oh, okay, no, now it's actually, it's an audience of retirees or what, you know, so you need, and then you say, okay, I still want them to understand, but it's like, what am I going to use as an example? Or, you know, it's like, okay, how does this, How as we take [00:29:00] light and we think of it as like a journey, like life has been a journey and what, you know, or whatever, you know, whatever it is, and you kind of want to see how you can tailor that message to your audience. And I think you also need to think about what it is that, you know, I don't want us to get lost and I, in terms of us as presenters, and I think sometimes, you know, like, you gotta think about your audience, drum can get beaten a bit too hard, you know, like, think about your audience, you gotta think about your audience, and absolutely you can't do it without the audience, you know, but you also need to think about, like, what is it that I want to communicate, what is, you know, You know, my gift, what is it that I want to share? What is, you know, and gift may suit in some capacities, but not in others, but it's like if you're in the, you know, the head of a marketing department, let's say, like, what is your unique perspective? Like, what are you uniquely capable of? of saying, like, what does your position and your knowledge of [00:30:00] the background, not that everybody needs to know the background, but, like, what can you, in your position, what can you leverage in order to deliver something to your audience? And, you know, to use your wedding toast example, which I think is a great one I actually was coaching someone to, to give a wedding toast for his his brother, who was getting married, And here in the Netherlands, and as I was going through his speech, at a certain point, I was like, So, I mean, a lot of this is good, and like, it's well written, but like, this section here, like, anybody could say it. And same with this section here, and he goes, Yeah, that I was Googling, like, what to say in a wedding post. And though, you know, and, but it was like, clear to me, what were these passages, So, It's sort of they're like you know, empty calories, right? Because it doesn't offer anything specific about his relationship with his brother, how they used to fight, and how they used to make up, or like [00:31:00] the special secrets that they had, or his relationship with the the bride to be, and he was giving this presentation also with the bride to be's sister, and so, you know, like that dynamic and all these things, I was like, okay, once we start locking in on that's where this starts to become like a really valuable exercise, you know, for him, and then also delivering something unique and specific to that audience, and it's not just because of that context, it's like in any context, right? You're the only person, you know, like, especially with, you know, chat GPT, or, you know, like, sort of these AI. If I want to, you know, give me a five minute wedding speech, and here's the, you know, we were college roommates, and we went, you know, like, whatever, we can type it in there, and they'll spit you out something, but it's gonna have no heart or substance, because a computer wrote it, you know what I mean? So, like, where is your human value that you can give, and then give Ross Romano: right. Yeah, I and there's so many of [00:32:00] those things That people who are listening they know even if they can't quite put their finger on it, right? the you know the example you mentioned earlier about the you know in the podcast like this if I'm just I have my list of questions and I'm just going from one to the next, no matter what you say, or if you have written down exactly what you want to say, you know, people who are not involved in podcasting. 100 percent be able to say, Oh, this is exactly what's happening there, but they can just hear that. It's just not engaging this. There's just something about this. That's not interesting. Or the person who has a bunch of filler stuff in their speech that they could say to anybody, any place. There's just, there's a disengagement that takes place during that part. That there's, you know, stuff that, you know, Yeah, it takes you out of it that you'd be better [00:33:00] off trimming it down and saying, let's just stick to the stuff that really is relevant here. That's not worry about what I'm supposed to say. Let's worry about what is going to make sense for these people and focusing on that and not worrying about that. It's really about. I mean, efficiency, I guess, in a sense, which, you know, not to be confused exclusively with brevity, but saying is everything I'm saying here worth saying? And so that doesn't mean it needs to be short or long or this or that, but it means if there's something that just isn't valuable to this audience, there's no sense in including it. If I have a lot of things that are valuable, great, right? But, you know, not putting pressure on ourselves you know, like the old, when we first learned to write in school, you would have, you know, Parameters around, okay, this is a 500 word essay, [00:34:00] or it's this many paragraphs, or whatever. And and there still are plenty of adults who still operate by that. Okay, well, how long is this supposed to be? What's the verses? Then you get to the point where you're doing copywriting or different things and it's like, all right, I need to how short can I make this? I need this down and and realizing, okay, it's the economy of it. And this, the fact of I, I need to really ask the hard questions about what should be here and what shouldn't and and what am I. You know, and if you're in a position where you're getting paid to give a speech somewhere, really being confident in what you are being paid for, right? Like being confident in what your expertise and what your value is and not thinking about it as I'm being paid to fill time, right? And I'm being paid to.[00:35:00] give people something meaningful here. And if that takes me 20 minutes, or if that takes 45 or five you know, what is the most effective way to achieve that? And that's what they want from me. Because I could talk for two hours about any, you know, nonsense, right? And I could say, well, you know, I gave you two hours of my time. And well, yeah, but it wasn't worth anything to us, right? Ryan Millar: There's a great quote and I'm going to attribute it to Blaise Pascal, who I believe is a French mathematician but I think it's also been variously attributed to Mark Twain and other people, but the quote is you know, please enjoy my letter I'm sorry it's so long, I didn't have the time to write a shorter one. And, I love that, and when I teach writing workshops which is, which I also do, which is about, you know, getting to the point. I always bring this up when we talk about editing, and I'm saying, you know, this is what has happened here. [00:36:00] is they've written presumably a great letter. I mean, a man of letters, a great writer, but they didn't have the time to go back and sharpen the point, you know, and I think what you're talking about, you know, with like the 20 minutes, 45 minutes, two hours, and it's like, it's not the amount of blah blah blah, like talking you're doing, it's the amount of You know, value or the amount of content and the amount of it's like what you are giving. And, you know, if you're like, okay, you know, I've got a 20 minute slot, then give them 20 minutes of value. Don't take a presentation you had that was 10 minutes long. That was really good. And just kind of. Talk slower and stuff it with a few more examples and be like, I think I can pad this out and make it 20 minutes. Like, that's, it's like, no. Give them, like, value their time and give them that 10 minute presentation that's really good. Say, I don't need that time [00:37:00] slot. Or, you know, take that and say, how else, you know, where else can I, or it's not even what can I add to this. It's like, what can I, if I use this as a base. What can I add to it to make that time valuable? You know, like to, how can I make this a worthwhile 20 minute presentation? And P. S. if that 20 minute presentation only ends up being, you know, 18 minutes, that's great because nobody has ever complained that a presentation ran short, you know what I mean? That's not a, that's not a thing that happens. So it's like pack it in and give the value and make sure that it is commensurate with the amount of time that you have to speak. Ross Romano: Yeah. How would someone go about getting meaningful practice and in, you know, situations that are typically accessible? Right. But something that's actually going to allow them to work on this. Ryan Millar: Yeah, great [00:38:00] question. There's lots, of course, you know, like, reach out to me for coaching. That's a great thing. But before you even do that, there's a lot of like, slide guides, or, you know, like, these sort of AI powered you know, buddies, that I think, you know, are on PowerPoint and, you know, with Google and Apple and all those that can tell you, you know, okay, you, the pace was too slow here, or you used eight times in the past or, you know, whatever. Those kind of those kind of tools, I would say, absolutely leverage them. Also, even just, you know, recording yourself or getting a roommate or, you know, a partner or a child, a parent. To listen in, and that's really about the, you know, about the performance aspect, or, you know, like, this is the presentation. Let's see how that goes. But I think even before that, when you're generating this idea, you know, let's say your boss is like, hey, you know, I need you to do 15 minutes at the, you know, The annual review, [00:39:00] we're going to be looking back at this department and I want you to talk about this project that you were responsible for, you know, in advance of that, you're going to want to sort of test drive some ideas and like, okay, so I'm, this is because you're not just giving the facts, we had this budget, we spent this money, we did this thing, this is what happened, this, you're, the value that we were talking about earlier is you're helping people, you're giving people the lens to through which to view those facts. Right? Like, if it's just the facts, just, you know, put it in an email. I mean, like, come on, you know what I mean, if you're going to actually help them, then you're going to want to say, well, so, this is the interpretation of the facts, so, when we look back at last quarter's activities, we can see that we underperformed in the following areas, A, B, and C. We know that because of the results. Are X, Y, and [00:40:00] Z here. Now we need to think about that as we're planning forward. And that is we're looking at these following items and we're looking to see what can we cut and where should we be investing more or what, you know, whatever. And we think that by doing that we're going to achieve this results or we need these resources, or this is the plan that we have. And then you're helping people use the past. to make sense of what's happening now so you can prepare for the future instead of just like dumping a bunch of facts on people where it's like, ah, this whole meeting could have been an email. Yeah. (ad here) Ross Romano: Yeah. I think that begs the question of what to do with feedback. Right. What is particularly in cases, I mean, Number one, yes, like before you're going to come out on the other end, comfortable and confident, lean into the discomfort, record yourself, right? No matter how good you are, you're going to hate it at first. It's seek out feedback that you know is going to [00:41:00] probably be critical, but you need to hear it. But also once you get to the point where you know what you're doing, right? You're going to be sometimes in cases where you're receiving feedback or requests. That you don't agree with, right? That you just reference giving those reports. I've been in situations working with clients where, you know, we've given a report on the things that we know actually matter and they're saying, well, we want, These other things in here, and I'm thinking, do we want to waste our time on that? That's not really anything, right? That's and you're sort of thinking, okay, there's the piece of just doing something that you feel like is kind of Busy work or sort of besides the point just to satisfy somebody versus doing what you think is strategically correct. And, you know, that could apply to all different types of presentations, right? To say, look, I've thought about this and this was well thought out and presented, but I had [00:42:00] an audience. In whatever case that wanted to go by this very basic paint by numbers approach that, you know, that their critiques are you know, out of line with what I think is actually high quality. But, you know, as we're kind of getting into this and navigating that, how do. How should a presenter go about getting and then actually using feedback? Ryan Millar: That's a great question. And like a whole world to think about because it also gets into, you know, self esteem and like, where are we, where are Our own blind spots and like who's paying the bills, you know, there's all kinds of things, but I think a couple of things I want to say on this is one, there's a great idea of a term of the note behind the note and so often, you know, even if it's someone who's opinion is you're like, I don't really rate them as a [00:43:00] public speaker or I don't even think they're paying attention or, you know, they're just saying something. If they're giving you a note, odds are they're identifying problem and maybe the fix that they're suggesting is not very good, you know, that where it's like yeah, I think that whole section on, like, you know, between slides four and eight, I kind of tuned out, but, you know, what I think you could do is you could drop it and then, like, instead, just skip or whatever, or, you know, it might not even be that specific, but let's imagine that it is. And you're like, actually, that's the point of my presentation, but, so I'm not going to drop it, but what they're telling me is that there's something that needs work there because that isn't landing with my audience. So I think that's, like, a really valuable thing to like, if we can get into this mindset of, like, looking for feedback and encouraging it. We also need to keep this integrity [00:44:00] around our own work. And not just be like, Oh, well, I'll just say whatever they say. I'm just going to change it and do that because then we're totally lost. Right? But it's like, okay, I can evaluate those notes and take them on board and see that, okay, a few people have mentioned this thing. And I think they're, you know, they're missing the point. If two people have mentioned, you know, independently, I'm not delivering the point. You know what I mean? I'm, they're missing it, and that's on, that's not on them, that's on me at that point. So what do I need to do to go back and fix it? So I think that's kind of a really important thing. And then the other thing I wanted to say is when you talked about like clients or people, you know, like, this is how we do our, this is the slide templates we use, or like, you've got four minutes to deliver like, you know, whatever this massive Sisyphean task of whatever. And you're like, well, it's four minutes. Like I only got four minutes. And the phrase that I use in my head is like, All I can do is all I can [00:45:00] do, like, I can't do, I got four minutes, that's not gonna change, I can't deliver all this, so what can I do? Or like, I've worked on this so hard, or I've told this client five times, five different ways, that this is a bad idea. And they, this is what they want. If at that point, if I don't do that for them the way they want, I mean, you can debate this, but it's kind of malpractice, right? At a certain point, it's like, okay, I told you, you hired me for my expertise. I told you, you know, all these different ways, that's what you want. Okay, I'm going to do it. And like, and then we'll, you know, I'm going to do it the best I can, I'm going to try and help you, coach you through the process, but this is what you asked for, this is what I give you, you know, and then of course, you know, to maintain our own integrity to go back to that point, maybe, I mean, maybe you need to walk out before that point, or maybe you're like, this relationship isn't working, you need a different person to deliver your work because this isn't a good match for you or, you know, whatever it is. But at a certain point, you're [00:46:00] just like, all I can do is all I can do. So that's what I'm going to do the most that I can within the parameters that I have. Ross Romano: Yeah. Awesome. So Ryan, thanks so much for for being here and sharing all of this with our listeners. If listeners are interested in learning more about your work or getting, you know, getting more insights and support on this, what should they check out? Ryan Millar: Well, thank you, Ross. It's been a great conversation and thank you for having me. And the two places, the two best places to find me, one is if you want my book, it's called The Confident Presenter and it's on Amazon and also other bookstores. But you can my name is Ryan Millar. That's M-I-L-L-A-R. You can find me on Amazon or you can find me on my website, which is ryan miller.com. Ross Romano: Excellent. Yeah, listeners, I will put the links below where you can learn more about Ryan and his book at his website. There's also a website, confidentpresenter. co that you can check out. We'll put those links below and and go to Amazon, [00:47:00] wherever you get your books. The book is out there, The Confident Presenter, so we'll make that easy for you. Check all of that out. If this is something you want to learn more about, there are many tips, strategies, techniques that we didn't get into in detail here, but yeah, even if you are an experienced and confident public speaker, but you're looking for some little tips for how you can spruce up your openings, your intros, the different ways that you You kind of format and engage your audiences. There's guaranteed to be something in there that you haven't tried yet. So check that all out. And also, if you're somebody who has something coming up, you look for quick tips. If you can, you know, find a copy of the book or an ebook that you can jump right to the back and there's a bunch of strategies you can use right away and then you can go through the rest of it later. So, check that out if it's something that you would like to learn more about or that you would just like to be better at. Please also do subscribe to The Authority if you have not already for more author interviews like [00:48:00] this one or visit our network website bpodcast. network and you can learn about all of our 40 plus shows. This show, I'm sure there's something else for you there. Ryan, thanks again for being here. Ryan Millar: Ross an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.