Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Shannon & The Clams

Transcript

Shannon & The Clams · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. The band Shannon and the Clams were longtime regulars
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: in the Bay Area music scene. The band's two main songwriters,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Shannon Shaw and Cody Blanchard, met in college in Oakland, California,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: and remained there for about a decade until a number
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: of events set them adrift, not only physically but also spiritually.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: There was a tragic ghost ship warehouse fire in twenty
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: sixteen that killed thirty six people attending the show in Oakland.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Then there was a danger situation where Shannon was a
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: victim of a stalker, and if that weren't enough, there
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: was also the death of Shannon's fiance only weeks before
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: their wedding day. The band's new album, The Moon Is
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: in the Wrong Place, is taken from a phrase Shannon's fiancee,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Joe Hayner, uttered shortly before his passing. It's also the
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: record's moving title track. Much of the new record is
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: a Shannon's grief, but there's also tender moments like the Vow,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: a song Shannon had written to surprise Joe on their
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: wedding day. I spoke to Shannon, Sean Cody Blanchard about
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: moving away from Oakland the aftermath of losing a friend
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: in fiance and about their Dan Aarbach produced record, The
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Moon Is in the Wrong Place. This is broken record
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: my conversation with Shannon Shaw and Cody Blanchard of Shannon
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: and the Clams. When the single The Moon Is in
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: the Wrong Place first came out, and when I realized
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: it was the album title, my thought was it might
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: be one of the better album titles in recent memory.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: And then when I read the backstory, I got a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: little bummed out. I was like, where it comes from
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: makes it even better in a sense. But it's obviously
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: just a brutal way to come to it. And I
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: don't know what degree you want to talk about it
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: or Shannon, but you know, I don't know how to
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: talk about this, so sorry.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Well, we're not raised to talk about it or trained
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: generally in America. It really seems.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: Like just so not a part of our culture.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: The funeral marks the end of your time to publicly
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: deal with with the loss. But I'm not going that route.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I can't go that route. It's not sustainable to me.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: What was your relationship with sort of life and death
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: prior to this experience, and has it evolved if it
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: has at.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: All, It's yeah, it's evolved a lot. You know.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I've lost my grandparents who I loved but I was
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: not very close with. And we had someone who used
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: to drum for us years ago committed suicide and that
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: was definitely hard. And then I would say the ghost
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Ship fires, was.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: It definitely? Yes? Yeah, that definitely took a lot out
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: of us.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: You know, It's that occurred in like the same kind
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: of spaces that we frequent and you know, came up
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: playing and had had some friends in there and everyone
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: was just maybe one or two degrees away from us.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: So it was that was a really hard one. But
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: nothing has affected me like this before ever. I think
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: just having it be something from inside of my life
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: disrupting every part of my life and changing my future.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: Drastically.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. How long after you lost your partner, Shannon, did
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: you feel that you could reasonably move forward with music again?
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: Pretty quick? Right?
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I never thought of it quite in those terms, because
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: when I write music, it's usually coming from a place
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: of I need to get something out of me.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: The way I make music is it's processing emotions, so
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: it shouldn't be a surprise that that's the route I took.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, since I was a little kid making up songs.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: I started making up songs when I was really young,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: five or so and not playing music. I never ever,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: I never thought i'd be a musician. That was a
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: huge surprise to me, and I didn't start playing anything
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: till I was twenty five. But it's always been a
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: form of self soothing to me, and now I see
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: it as processing too, So songs started coming to me
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: right away.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: What was the first song to come to you?
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I feel like it was maybe the bean Fields, not
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: like the melody or the music, but the concept and
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: maybe life is unfair? Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, we were spending
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: so much time just sitting in this crop. I don't
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: know if you know, but Joe's pickup flipped into the
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: bean field that he tended, and himself. I don't know,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: it's ironic, I guess, but yeah, just me and his
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: family and some friends just ended up spending so much
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: time just sitting out there, you know, surrounded by this madness,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: you know, as a real juxtaposition between life and death,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: being surrounded by all these blossoms, and bees buzzing, and
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: you know, the beans starting to come in, and then
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: this big burnt out hole in the earth where his
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: pickup had been, and we just ended up spending so
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: much time there that I eventually hauled out this camping.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Matt and me and his sister Beth would just lay
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: out there night and day, and eventually we dragged out
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: chairs and a table and would meet there like every
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: night and listen to music and talk and watch the
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: meteor shower that had been going on.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: And I think.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Being in that environment made me feel really inspired and
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: blown away that I could still appreciate anything, and nature
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: became a really big, in your face, in my face
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: inspiration and just being able to appreciate it in a
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: new way and just kind of living in awe.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Were you starting to trend that way? I mean, you
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: had moved to, you know, your partner's farm outside of Portland,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: and from what I gathered was a pretty, you know,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: like beautiful piece of land. So I mean, were you
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: starting to trend towards being a person inspired by nature anyway?
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Or was that period of morning more of a time
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: where that happened.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've always loved nature, grew up in the country,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: and I've always wanted I mean, I spent sixteen years
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: I think in Oakland and then two years in Portland.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: I would go back and forth between Portland and the farm.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: But I've always been a lover of nature, but it
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: totally changed. I just started to take certain things really seriously,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: like feeling overwhelmed by the sunsets that we were seeing
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: and overwhelmed by plants and bugs, and I felt like
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: a new relationship with them.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that Beanfields is one of my favorite songs on
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: the album, along with the title track. There's a couple
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: others you so Lucky the vow, but bean Fields feels
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: like a For it to be one of the first
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: songs you'd written is surprising to me because it feels
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: like it's coming from a person who's fully, fully processed
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: things and fully I don't know, it seems like such
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: a beautifully you know, given the circumstances, like a beautifully
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: formed way of thinking about happened.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: Thanks.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I think that one is something that really surprised me
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: that I felt soon after the loss was gratitude and that,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a concept that I've always understood, but
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I think it wasn't until this event where I felt
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: it like deep within me, like I have been so
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: deeply grateful to have had Joe for the amount of
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: time I've had him, and I feel like definitely forever
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: changed by having his influence in my life, and I
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: feel like I still am being inspired by him as
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: a person. I constantly asked myself like, WWJD, what would
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Joe do? You know, I'm like using him as a
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: moral compass oftentimes, and I think that was part of
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: the joy that you feel in the bean Fields. I
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: was afraid of that song at first because when I
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: started really working on it, that's all that was coming
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: out of me, was like a joy, a celebration and appreciation.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I was so surprised to be writing something upbeat, and
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: I was afraid to embrace that because I was like,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: is that disrespectful or is it too weird? Too soon
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: to put a joyous song on there? And you know,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: I answered, have answered my own question, and it's no,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: absolutely not. You know this, this grief has been a
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: really massive range, you know, of emotions, and I think
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: with the extreme depths of depression and darkness and nothingness
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: that I've experienced, I've also experienced sheer joy and celebrating
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: feels so important.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and really.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Grasping any bits of light that I can find is
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: so important to my survival.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy to hear that. I'm grateful that you've
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: sort of found the strength or the sensibility or the
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: courage or to handle it the way that you have.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: It's been the rough kind of beautiful to watch as well.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Cody, As someone who's known Shannon, like you know
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: obviously a very long time, how has the last couple
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: of years been for you?
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: I mean, right after Joe Dive was just fucking completely shattering.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: It was just like.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: Total destruction for me. And then to watch your friend
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: have to go through this and deal with this is like, yeah,
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: it's just annihilating. Just everything stopped, you know, like we
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: just didn't do anything else, just cancel everything. Yeah, and
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: you know, Shannon came and stayed at our house for
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: a while because she was living in Portland. But obviously
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: like didn't want to go back to their apartment. I
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: mean I even had a hard time going in there
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: and I didn't even live there. I tried to just
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: i don't know, be like a point of light or
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: be like the kind of friend that Shannon was used to,
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: So be present and not like try to force anything,
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: you know, not try to like really force Shannon to
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: talk about what she was feeling or what's going on,
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: and to like allow moments of levity or find a
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: little moments of like joy or humor, you know, when
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: we could.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how long after Shannon wrote Beanfields did you hear
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: it or see it? I don't know if the words
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: came first or if everything sort of came together.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: I guess probably December or January, so that was probably
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: like four months because we didn't really get together to
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: work on stuff until January.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: How did you feel about the things coming in? The
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: songs coming in from Shannon?
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: We were trying to we keep talking about this. We
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: were trying to find another instrument for Shannon to write on,
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: and someone told Shannon to get an omnichord because you
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: can just push buttons and like it plays chords for you,
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: and it has a drum machine in it. So that
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: was I thought was really cool because it I think
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: it removed the like translation step because there's often Shannon's
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: writing on bass and then we're trying to find these
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: chords that work with you know, what she's singing or
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: you know, like if you play a bass note and
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: then you sing a melody on top of it, it
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: informs like what the key it's in or what chords
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: would work.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: With it, right, and then if you change the bass
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: note or something, it would totally change the.
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: Between those two notes. But it like removed that translation
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: kind of step. And then Shannon could just like play
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: around with all these different weirdo chords and I think
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: write more freely.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: And then so like we're the demos with omni chord
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: on them that you're hearing, Yeah, that's pretty cool. Like
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: how did that inform? I guess what you do? Then?
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: As a guitar player, must have just given you like
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: a kind of a pretty strong blueprint for what to do.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I guess.
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's still has to get glued together, and I
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: think like backing vocals and harmonies and stuff still come
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: to you know, like Shannon usually has an idea for
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: a backing vocal, but it's just it's different when we
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: all get together because we bring different like we sing
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: in different ranges and have different ideas, and we tried,
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: we tried to like have a more free form, you know,
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: like jam session where we were coming with really incomplete ideas.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: But I don't know. It was cool and it was fun,
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: but we didn't actually produce that much usable stuff. It
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: just felt like everything was like upside down and we
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: could try anything.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, it felt like a good time just to
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: try a new playbook maybe, But.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: The stuff we kept from it was really stuff that
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: had been pretty well like written before because we were
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: recording in March and that's started in January, so it
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: wasn't like a ton of time to write stuff.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was writing on the on the code for you.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: It opened up a whole new world.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, it just made I was just over flowing
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: with ideas that I couldn't capture because I just felt
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: too limited on the bass. That's how I normally write songs.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: And I only know a handful of guitar chords. And
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not a good guitar player at all. I'm not
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: even an okay guitar player.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Do you try? Do you try?
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: I try? I try.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Joe actually made me learn a few guitar chords
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty. It was important to him that I
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: learn a few. He was like, just trust me, you're
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: gonna love it.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: You're gonna get it. It's just gonna help you. You're
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: gonna love it.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: And I was so resistant because I hate being bad
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: at stuff. And that's actually kind of how I wrote
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: the vow. I used the chords he taught me and
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: wrote that song.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the one song that was written before he
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: died because I was going to perform it at our
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: wedding as a surprise to him. Yeah, but yeah, it
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: was going to be that really simple, simple song, and
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: it made me furious that he was never going to
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: get to hear it. You know, I would never written
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: it if he hadn't convinced me that I should learn
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: a few chords. And I did get really addicted to
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: guitar during lockdown, and it.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Had become a great tool to me.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I never got good, but yeah, I was really sad
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: for some reason that detail. Of all of the things
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: that I was mad about, I kept coming back to
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: that song and it was just so naive, you know,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: it was so full of hope and joy and was
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: it and when I.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Was the happiest I've ever been in my whole life.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I guess I wanted that to be on
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: the album to tell the story of, like, look how
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: fucking happy I was, you know, like we had our
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: lives like together, things were going great, and.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: That song was just such a symbol.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Of of how much I believed in our union and
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: how proud I was. So I guess I just wanted
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: to kind of share with people how it felt for
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: everything to stop. And that's essentially what we put the
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Vow next to our Glass too, because I feel like
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: those two songs together some up that nightmarish journey, you know,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: of the beginning.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be right back with more from Shannon and
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: the Clams after this break. We're back with Shannon and
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the Clams. When did you decide to put the Vow
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: on the album or to revisit it as a song?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And rework it and I didn't show anyone until we
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: were at this session in January when we were writing together,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: and I was like, knew that it would could be
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: potentially cruel, you know, I never know how real to get,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: and I decided to just be like completely real, like
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: I'm going to just share the devastation because I can't
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I can't hold it by myself.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: When you say you in the past or you know,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: you're never sure how real to get, Like, what do
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: you think that instinct.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Is protecting people? Also, it's just hard. It's hard and
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: exhausting to be so vulnerable all the time. Yeah, lately,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I'm just talking about my grief with press because y'all
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: are asking.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: And I do find myself.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Keeping certain thoughts to myself because they're so sad. I
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: don't want to like take someone's innocence away by by
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: sharing them like with them, like some of the extreme
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: darkness that I live with now, you know. Yeah, but
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I don't you know, I'm also really open, but if
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: no one's asking, I'm not usually bringing it out currently.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you prefer do you prefer people not to add?
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, where are you at with them?
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I want people to ask because it's my life now,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: this is my life, this is all I think about.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: And what is weird to me is if you are
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: someone who loves me, friends or family wise, and it
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: doesn't come up, you don't bring it up, you don't
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: check on me or something that is disturbing to me. Yeah.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: I like to think of it as a dresser. I
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: like to think of my relationships as a big dresser,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: and some of those people previously that were in my
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: top drawer have had to go to the bottom drawer.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I love them, But going back to what we first
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: talked about, you apologize and said, I'm sorry, I don't
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: know how to talk about this stuff.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: We do not know how to talk about it.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: We don't and I don't blame anyone for that, but
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: some people are a lot better than others at it,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: you know, instinctual, and like give me the space, you know,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: bring it up and check in with me, and then
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: give me.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: The space I need to talk about it.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: And that to me, that's like invaluable. And I honestly
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: have a list of friends that have provided that kind
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: of a space for me. And I've just had to
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: let other friends and family that I thought could could
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: hold me there and could be there, I've just had
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: to put them in the bottom drawer.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, have you been handling this just purely instinctually? I
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: mean I've been doing therapy. Well, how do you like,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: how are you finding the words and the processes to
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: reprioritize and I mean all these things that you're saying me,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: it's just like, yeah, I'm kind of stunned that you're
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: able to do all this, you know, consciously.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I I would say a lot of it is instinctual.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: But I did join a grief group. Someone connected me
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: with a grief counselor right away, so I've had her,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: and then I have a grief group, which has been
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: really helpful. But years ago, I did therapy off and on,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: and I still have a relationship with my old therapist.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I haven't talked to him in a while now because
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I can't afford three different therapies.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: But I'm glad to know you have the same problem
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: as me. It's like I need therapy.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, It's that's really sad to me because I think,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: no matter what you've going you've been going through, you
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: don't have to have had a, you know, life changing death.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I think that everyone needs therapy just to learn how
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: to like communicate with each other. I think that having
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: that therapy years ago put me in a much better place.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I really like encourage everyone I know to have therapy.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: But now the grief group has been so good for me.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I think being with other people who lost people in
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: different ways, different scenarios, different relationships, just I mean, you
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: already from a loss like this, you already gain a
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: lot of perspective, which I wasn't expecting. But like, things
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: that were so important to me before are totally not
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: you know, those dresser drawers have moved around on their own,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: and a lot of the noise gets cleared out of life.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of the little things that stressed me
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: out gave me anxiety, you know, those the important things
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: are like bursting out of the top. Wow, and so
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: much further away from from the little noise. But hearing
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: other people's grief journeys, I guess you would call it
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: is amazing. And I feel so grateful to have this
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: group of people to be with every week, because I
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: can have the most supportive, wonderful friends, but being with
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: someone who's suffered anything close to similarly like it's it's
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: kind of one of the only places where I feel
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: like I can let my hair down. Yeah, you know,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: and like I liken it too. When I get to
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: that group, I feel like I can like unbutton a
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: tight pair of genes.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Oh you know, do you feel like your writing's kind
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: of forever impacted?
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I do, because I guess going back to what I
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: was trying to say about perspective and the important things
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: like blasting to the top and the noise settling down
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: at the bottom. I think that it's changed my fears.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm like just not as afraid to do anything.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not as caught up on worrying what people will think,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: or I'm not as afraid to try things. You know,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: about our session we did in January to go over
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: demos and try to jam. I hated jamming, you know,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: like it's not very me. I normally need to do
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of preparing, and I did. I had a
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: lot of things prepared. But also to just go in
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: with nothing and just jam off like what one of
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: the guys in the band brought, that is very different
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: for me. So to sit there and like experiment in
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: front of people, that's like, you know, you may as
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: well be in the nude, right, I may as well
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: be in the dude. So I think that that fear
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: has just changed. I am not worried about being judged
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: at all, And I'm sure.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: A lot of it is.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Just that that extreme loss is the change of perspective.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: But I also honestly feel like Joe's wisdom has imprinted
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: itself upon me, like he is someone that was not
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: afraid of anything like that, and if I were to
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: be like, well, I'm Joe, I'm afraid to jam, he
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: would be like, what, just do it?
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: He's definitely like a just do it kind of guy
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: and wouldn't want me to wasting my time being afraid
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: of trying things. So I think that my sign rating
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: is just like less afraid. Yes, I was concerned about
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: making things too sad for people, but now I'm not.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Now I'm just like sorry, this is my life and
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: so far our fans are very here for it, which
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: has been beautiful.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean the music is really really good too,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: you know, which, which of course always helps. Like it's
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: not you know, I don't think anyone is having to
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: no one's having to pretend to be here for anyone's sake.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Like it's really really good news.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's thank you. I actually I really
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: do feel.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I also feel this like confidence that I don't think
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: I ever had before, and that I think that if
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: people had no idea what happened, I believe that this
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: is a really fucking good album. I am totally confident
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: that no matter what the content is this album is great.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: I feel really proud and I do think.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: That we all did a beautiful job like contributing, like
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: our hearts and our talent.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I would like to talk a little bitbout the recording process,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: and maybe Cody can speak to some of that. How
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: do you move Cody from the jam session and the
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: kind of gathering songs you've written and working them out
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: together part to the recording part. How did that move
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: along for this particular album.
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: I think the hardest part of deciding what to keep
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: and what to work on, what to cut out because
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: we just have too much material. So we're often like
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: keeping a big list of songs and.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Then trying to.
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: Decide like which ones we love and which ones we
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: should get rid of.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: How do you guys negotiate that?
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: I don't know. It's like sometimes it actually just comes
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: down to like we didn't decide and we ran out
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: of time, and so something doesn't get recorded, like we
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: have like five days to record or something, and then
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: it's sort of like, okay, well, these four like we
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: didn't decide which ones we're gonna keep, and then we
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: just ended up recording one of them, and then we
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: just like ran out of Top. Yeah, maybe that's like
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: a subconscious way of making the decision, because you if
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: that's the song that you like put off recording, like
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: maybe it's not that good or you don't like it that.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Much, certainly makes the decision easier. It makes it less
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: of a conscious decision in the sense, you know.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but then the stuff you're really excited to get
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: down is like you record that first.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Do you guys talk to like Dan about it when
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: you guys are gonna go into the studio with him,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: or do you like run stuff by him?
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: No.
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: I feel like we've like sent him demos before and
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: I don't think he really listened to them. He likes
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: to just do stuff live in the studio, Like I
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: don't think he likes to Yeah.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: His reaction is like awesome, get in here.
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: It's like he would rather you show up with nothing
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: and then you write everything like in the studio and
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: just like record it as you're going. And he's like, also,
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: just whatever we want to do. He's like, yeah, let's
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: record that whatever whatever you guys.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Want or the ever times you're you're looking for a
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: more decisive opinion.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, not from Dan, But I just wish. Yeah, we
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: do kind of wish there was someone who would just say, like, no,
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: this is bad, don't do this one. They'll do it
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: with takes for sure, and like what we're doing on
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: the songs, like this is working, this isn't working. But
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: I wish, Yeah, it would be nice to have some outsider.
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: I mean that's what I feel like. The Beatles had
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: that with their producer and their manager were like just
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: so involved in shaping the sound and like deciding what songs.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish there were more George Martin's in the.
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: World, you know, I wanted George Martin and Brian.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, It's like it's just nice if you have someone
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: who's like fifth or sixth member kind of meddling and like,
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: you know, tightening things up.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you feel similarly, Shannon.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I think it's always good to have like an outside,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: trusted person to help you with editing.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: After one last break, we're back with the rest of
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: my conversation with Shannon Shaw and Cody Blanchard of Shannon
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: in the Clans. We're back with the rest of my
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: conversation with Shannon and the Clams. I keep going back
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: to it, but It just really is one of my favorites.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I love it so much. The moon is in the
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: wrong place, the act on the song. I love how
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: the second verse is the first verse with added sort
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: of thoughts, you know, a few more lines. It's a
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: really cool way to go about that, just give it
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: an extra emotion. You're repeating the first few lines of
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: the first or the entire first first, and then to
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: stretch it out and to add the icy SpaceX and
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: all that. It was just like, whoa, it was really cool.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Did you write it that way? Did that come through
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: jamming it or how did that particular device come about?
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: I think I brought it the song pretty much fully formed, right, Cody.
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: I almost feel like that like came down in the studio,
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: like having the intro and with a half first and
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: then like coming back.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: Oh definitely this yeah, this structure. Yeah, you're right.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: It almost seemed like really last minute or something. The
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: way that we.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Did that, it adds like a It's like it's just
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: like there's a real energy to it, like like almost
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: like bursting out the gate, you know, like when you
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: just yeah, like having that first verse be like kind
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: of the intro you.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: Know, yeah, it's a lot of tension because it you
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: can tell that it's not finished or it's not resolved
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: or something.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that was like arranging like in the studio.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Was that an omnichord song?
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: Yes, but I did.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I had the baseline first, that boom da da doo
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: doo boom boom, I.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Like had that bassline.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: That bassline came to me first, actually, so I think
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: after I like got that down, then I formed the
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: rest on the omnichord.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: And how how did you work on the omnichord? I
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: know there's like pre program stuff, but you don't have
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: to do pre programs. I mean the drums are pre
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: programmed I guess at least, right, but the chords you
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: can do whatever.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: What I was looking for was something so simple. I
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: was like, all I want is a drum machine that
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I just select the sound and push play.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: I don't want to edit it in any way.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Because in previous albums I would ask Cody and Nate
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: to send me, Hey, can you just send me a
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: drum a drum beat? And Cody actually made me these
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: really helpful ones where I'd say, like Cody sent me
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: punk drums and you would make a loop for me
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: because it's easier for me to write a song on
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: the bass. Playing at two drums is just like inspiring.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: It just like gives me ideas that I wouldn't have
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: if it was just me and the bass and silence. Right,
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: So for this process, I wanted access to chords that
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: I could just like push a button and it plays
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: a chord.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: I felt so overflowing with musical ideas. I didn't feel
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: like I had the time to learn how to play
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: the chords on a guitar or something, or on a piano.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: I have no idea how to play a piano.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: I just wanted something that I could push a button
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: and play a chord to a drum machine. And I
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: didn't want to rely on anyone for help where normal
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: am like employing Cody to like, please send me some
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: drum machine, and I have to send him things to interpret,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: you know, like either singing guitar parts or like this
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: kind of a sound. If you could come up with
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: a part that's sort of similar to that, like this,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: you know it. Just finding the omnichord was just such
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: a big help because I could be alone and be
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: forming songs much quicker than relying on the boys to
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: help interpret me. And so, yeah, the way I use
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: it is I would find a drum beat. I mean
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: it is silly. The like sounds on there are hilarious.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the drums are fucking terrible.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: They sound like trash.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: It totally worked great for me though, you know, it's
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: what I needed. It was means to an end. So
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: you know, I would slow down. I'd get like, oh,
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: a samba beat, and then slow it way down or
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: speed it way up to where like, Okay, this feels
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: like this feels like the rhythm and the intensity that
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I'm looking for for this song. And then I would
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: set the sound of the instrument, you know, to pim
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: know or harp or flute or you know whatever. There's
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: a lot of silly sounds on there. And then you're
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: just pushing the cords. And then you have a strum plate,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: which is supposed to be like strumming strings, but it's
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: this like plate that you rub your fingers back and
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: forth on.
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: Grill.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Actually it's like a really soft, very soft, smooth ribs,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: but it has really sharp corners because it's all made
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: out of like plastic that got.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: Glued on, so you can't go too far. But yeah,
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: so it was really fun and and and physical, you know, like.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: You're physically pushing all this stuff down, so it felt
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: like satisfying. I mean, if I could design one on
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: my own, it would be bigger, with a bigger strum
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: plate and buttons that like really feel satisfying to squish down.
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you should try it. There's like a bunch of
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: different models and like different I think like Suzuki and
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: Yamaha and maybe like another company made different versions, but
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: they recently made a reproduction of the like original one,
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: so you can like buy the new one that's a
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: reproduction of like the first model.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. I feel like that must be in the
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: air too, because yeah, yeah, Michelle and Deggioceello released an
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: album called The Omnichord Real Book, and I guess she
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: wrote a lot of the songs on there on the
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Omnichord too, So I was like, no.
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: This is yeah, it's like coming back for sure. There's
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: like a lot of people using it.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: It's pretty awesome. Yeah, you guys are kind of both
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: pretty voracious music consumers, it appears to me. I don't know,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: if it's I think it's for your last album. You
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: have a playlist on Spotify inspiration for a new record
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: and has like incredible cuts on it. What was the
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: first kinds of music that you both fell in love with?
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: Man, I love the songs that I can first remember,
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: like really becoming fixated on listening over and over Sweet
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: Dreams by Your Rhythmics, and enter Sandman by Metallica, and
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: then nine Inch Nails down in It and the Nightmare
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: Before Christmas soundtrack.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: All nice, that's so cute, what a cute combo.
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: It's all like pretty like dark it is, damn.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: And then like as you moved on, like how did
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: your listening change?
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: One thing that me and Shannon both had it in
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: common was that we both loved Primus, but it was
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: like our favorite band when we were like in junior
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: high or something. We were like Primisheads. I went like, yeah,
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: really hard on like industrial stuff, like you know, like
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: kind of deep stuff like Skinny Puppy and like Front
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: two four two and had this kind of goth vibe
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: and then got really into like kind of like skate
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: punk pop punk stuff and then you know, like Pennywise,
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: Operation Our Ivy.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, bad religion you miss grade or something like that. Yes, yeah,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: all that ship.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: And Shannon was like a big misfit st still is. Yeah,
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: missive said Danzig, so great.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I love like all your Spotify or yeah, umpeccable. We
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: needed that.
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: Reminds you like, I feel like we need to update
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: that or like sort of re curated. I don't know,
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: because the way it organizes them on your profile is
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: kind of weird. I don't really understand how it works.
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: But some of those playlists are like really old.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: You don't know how it works either, But don't delete
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: them because they're so good. I'm not archival.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: A few of those Joe made, of which, yeah, Joe
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: made a few of them. He made one of the
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: ones for your wedding. It's called wedding Tinkerings. Yes, and
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: he made one that says like Tahoe.
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: He made Yeah, I forgot used our account. We all
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: shared like one Spotify login.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then when we were doing a Patreon we
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: would make playlists for every month and he would he
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: would like work on them with me.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Can you guys share a playlist with me to put
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: out to the audience for this episode?
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: Share Joe Jojo Yeah, Okay.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: The significance of this playlist is that Joe would make
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: mixtapes like the Real Mixtape for.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: People, like like cassette tapes.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: A cassette tape, and then it would come with like
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: he would do a beautiful little drawing on the cover
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: and then write out, you know, the songs, just like
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: back in the day. And I cherished my mixtapes from Joe,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: and so when we were getting ready for like the
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: funeral and celebration of life and stuff, I requested that
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: everyone he'd made a tape for send their mixes, like
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: just the playlist to a friend named Kelly, who compiled
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: them and made a big Spotify just like of all
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: of Joe music essentially, And I love this playlist is
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: so good. I honestly listened to that a lot right
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: after he died. That was like months of me just
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: listening to that. So I'm sure some of that stuff
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: formed its way into my songwriting as well without me
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: realizing it.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Did you guys have any specific references for this album?
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: One thing I was like trying to channel was like,
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: I want to make a playlist more about this, but
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: this kind of late this crossover, this like kind of
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: late R and B like pre disco era where there's
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: like you get some kind of like psychedelic like fuzz
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: guitar stuff and that's some kind of like disco R
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: and B singing. One example was that song I think
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: it's called Liar Liar called.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: Lilaa Pencil File.
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean it's so weird and like such a
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: genre mashup, is it?
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh, it's so good.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: There's that.
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: There's this song, this late like Blue Christie song called
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: Dancing in the Sand that's kind of this weird kind
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: of like down tempo. This goes on with this like
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: big chorus. Anyway, I was trying to, like I wanted
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: to capture that weird genre mashup, which I think we did.
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: I think on the Moon is in the wrong place
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: in Big Wheel, like we kind of got close to that.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: Definitely feels that way. Yeah.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: A lot of the time what I do is when
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: I'm working on a song, like ideas will come to
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: me of things that I want to go back and
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: listen to from other artists, or I want to like, like, oh,
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: when I listen to Blossom Lady by Shocking Blue, it
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: makes me feel this way and I want to feel
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: that way when I play this song, so I'll have
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: like little notes, Like right now, I'm looking at.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: My song book.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Every time we do an album, I like get a
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: notebook and it's just like filled with all my weird
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: notes and my songs and track listing potentials.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: And so.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: I wrote down some things I was inspired by, and
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: I wrote Zombies, Shocking Blues, Sir Doug Quintet, Paul McCartney,
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Rocking Horse, Jerry, Jeff Walker, Beach Boys.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: And there's definitely like that these have wound their way
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: into the songs for sure.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Or like I'm looking at Dolly's clock and I wrote
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: down Irma Thomas breakw Way drums, so I guess I
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: was listening to that at the time, or like on
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: on Moon is in the wrong place. I don't think
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: that this ended up coming through, but I wrote down Buzzcocks, July,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: break on Through, abrupt Yelling, Jim Morrison, Funny. I'm glad
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: I wrote this stuff down. I don't know that I
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: would have before.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: That's really cool that you. Yeah, that's like a really
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: cool journal to keep. That'd be great for the reissue
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: in ten years.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, deluxy.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: See, this is the kind of stuff that I would
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: love to see from another artist. I love to look at.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: I'm also a painter. I love to see people's notebooks.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: I love to see their art, their like art desk
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: set up. I love to see how people.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: Notate their music.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Most of the time I can't relate to that because
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: is we call it shanglish. But anyways, I love to
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: see other people's processes.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Do you often ask other people?
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: I often ask to see people's like workspace and if
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: they have like some kind of like notebook or sketches,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: But it's it can also be a really private thing,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: so I gotta read each situation. One of my favorite
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: art exhibits I've ever seen was at Disneyland. They have
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: a little gallery in there that they'll have various exhibits,
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: and they had this one that was on the Tiki Room,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: and it was all the concept art for the Tiki Room.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: So it was all these artists like sketches, like all
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: the various ways that they were like maybe the birds
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: could look like this, or look like this, or look
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: like this. Maybe we should have the inside of the
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: like hut theater thing look like this.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: I love seeing that.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Is that kind of inside scoop or it. I went
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: to the Walt Disney Museum in the Presidio in San Francisco,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: and they have tons of concept art in there, but
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: they also have the illustrator's desk, which it was one
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: of my favorite things to see, just how the imagineers
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: in the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties generally set up
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: their art table.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks so much for talking about you guys' process
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: and about the new album and all that's kind of
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: been going on. It's been really great talking to you guys.
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: You too, Thank you so much.
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: Thank you, It's been really great.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: A big thank you to Shannon Shawn Cody Blanchard for
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: making such a beautiful record and talking through some of
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: the painful moments that led to its creation. And as promised,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: be sure to check out the link in the episode
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: description for a playlist the late Joe Haynes collected mixtapes.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: is Ben Toliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.
• 48:30
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• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.