Latest / Behaviour Speak with Ben Reiman / Liberating Education with Dr. Erika McDowell

Transcript

Liberating Education with Dr. Erika McDowell · Behaviour Speak with Ben Reiman

• 0:01
  I'm Ben Reiman and this is Behavior Speak.
• 0:07
  you
• 0:37
  Dr.
• 0:37
  Erika McDowell is a former New Jersey Governor's Award recipient and honors graduate of Howard University and New York University.
• 0:45
  Erika is an equity steward at Wildflower Schools, co-CEO of the Black Wildflower Fund, and owner of Inspired Minds Collide.
• 0:54
  She earned her doctorate in education from Drexel University in educational leadership and management and was honored as one of Drexel's 40 Under 40 in 2022.
• 1:04
  Dr.
• 1:04
  McDowell has received the Association for Positive Behavioral Supports Ted Carr Early Career Practitioner Award and was recently re-elected to the APBS Board of Directors for a
• 1:15
  second term.
• 1:17
  She has served as an Executive Director of Professional Development and Director of PBIS Youth Court for the School District of Philadelphia.
• 1:25
  Her in-depth experience includes restorative practices, equity, positive behavioral support, conflict resolution,
• 1:34
  classroom management, coaching, leadership development, and behavioral data support.
• 1:40
  She has also served as a clinical associate professor of educational leadership and policy at the State University of New York in Buffalo.
• 1:48
  Dr.
• 1:49
  McDowell continues to nurture the minds and gifts of leaders, teachers, and youth nationwide.
• 1:56
  Welcome, Erika.
• 1:58
  Hey,
• 2:00
  I'm to have you.
• 2:01
  I'm excited to be here.
• 2:03
  Can I tell you, this is a long time coming.
• 2:05
  I've been listening to the podcast and just excited to like share and like have a great conversation with a great person.
• 2:12
  So thank you for the invitation.
• 2:15
  I appreciate you.
• 2:15
  That's awesome.
• 2:16
  Before we get started, I just want to acknowledge I am producing this podcast in the lands of the Comox, Clayhus, Homoco and Kila'aman First Nations.
• 2:24
  And I'm grateful to be here.
• 2:26
  and proud to sit on Lenni Lenape land right where I am in PA, New Jersey.
• 2:30
  Thank you so much for that acknowledgement.
• 2:32
  I don't appreciate it.
• 2:34
  Alright, I got to tell me a little bit about yourself.
• 2:38
  If someone says to me, tell me about yourself, I tell people that I'm an educator, a trainer, an advocate, and a disruptor.
• 2:48
  Educator, I'm trained.
• 2:50
  I am certified to teach theater in New Jersey.
• 2:54
  Also have superintendent certification in New Jersey.
• 2:58
  I'm a girl from Jersey and that loved teaching and loved education.
• 3:02
  My dad's a retired teacher.
• 3:06
  I really wanted to help somebody.
• 3:10
  growing up in New Jersey, growing up in Patterson and growing up in this family of love, right?
• 3:15
  My grandpa was one of the first business owners who identified as black in the city of Patterson, right?
• 3:23
  Thinking about how my family, my uncle is a former director of recycling for our city.
• 3:31
  And so all of my work has been all about community.
• 3:34
  and making sure everyone has what they need to be successful.
• 3:37
  So, went to Rosa Park School of Fine and Performing Arts, drama major, vocal minor, went to Howard University, got my BFA in theater education, then went right to NYU, got my
• 3:51
  master's in educational leadership in colleges and communities, educational leadership theater in colleges and communities.
• 4:00
  So was able to do a study abroad work in London, in Ireland.
• 4:04
  and thinking about how we use theater as a tool to liberate folks.
• 4:09
  And then after that, I took a break and started working and started teaching.
• 4:13
  I'm actually taught in the same district my dad started in.
• 4:16
  People used to call me Baby McDowell because we have the same face and wear glasses.
• 4:21
  And he was an art teacher.
• 4:23
  I was a drama teacher.
• 4:24
  it was this like...
• 4:26
  And so going into my first year of teaching was very, it was a lot.
• 4:31
  Cause I had all these degrees at that time.
• 4:32
  I had a master's degree.
• 4:34
  And I realized that I wasn't teaching theater.
• 4:36
  I was loving on my students.
• 4:38
  And so that evolved into at the time, I think this was 07, 08, my district had a risk, a reduction in force of 800 teachers.
• 4:48
  And I was one of them.
• 4:50
  True story.
• 4:51
  And so it's crazy how I'm talking to people now and we have like the opposite of like, please come work, please come work.
• 4:58
  I was in a situation where I didn't have a job anymore.
• 5:01
  And so that's how I opened up my consulting work.
• 5:04
  So I just started helping people and someone heard about my work in Philly and I came and I interviewed and I became an aspiring assistant principal and then an actual assistant
• 5:15
  principal in Philly.
• 5:16
  And they made a decision to go like, how can I, and I teach this about the balcony and the dance floor.
• 5:22
  How can I make more impact on the balcony?
• 5:24
  Cause I was in the dance floor so heavy.
• 5:27
  So I then moved to the school district of Philadelphia where I became.
• 5:31
  a PBIS, Positive Behavioral Coach, working with at the time.
• 5:36
  I had a caseload of four, and then I evolved in the job and I was the director.
• 5:43
  And technically it was Positive Behavioral Systems and Supports, because I was managing our youth core programming and our implementation of 80 schools.
• 5:51
  And we have over 200 in Philadelphia doing that work.
• 5:55
  And then right after that, it's a funny story.
• 5:58
  I'm working.
• 5:58
  I'm just a worker, right?
• 6:01
  And I see my boss like following me and I'm like, and I have trauma, okay?
• 6:07
  Reduction in force in your life.
• 6:09
  It'll be like, well, what's going on?
• 6:11
  And we had a conversation and I was able to energize the executive director of professional development at the school in Philadelphia in the office of student support
• 6:20
  services.
• 6:21
  And I was so proud of that.
• 6:23
  And during that time, I went and got my doctorate.
• 6:26
  Shout out to my Drexel Dragons.
• 6:29
  went and was able to really do this beautiful hybrid program and really thinking about how we actually live this world.
• 6:37
  And so got my doctorate and then all of a sudden I was talking to a friend who was opening up a school in New Jersey.
• 6:45
  One of the things I, one of the biggest dreams I've ever had in my life was to open a school.
• 6:50
  And then I'm here to tell that that has not happened.
• 6:53
  But I also am proud to say that I'm helping other people.
• 6:57
  So I decided
• 6:58
  to move to wildflower schools, a beautiful ecosystem where we're opening small, liberatory, monosauri schools in the community in which you live.
• 7:08
  And I've been doing that work.
• 7:10
  And then after that, I decided to go to Buffalo, became a clinical associate professor in that school.
• 7:18
  And it's crazy when we talk about wellness and behavior.
• 7:22
  I got very sick.
• 7:25
  And when I moved, so I moved to Buffalo, it was right before the terroristic attack at the supermarket that I live six minutes away from.
• 7:35
  Then a month later, I get a call, my girlfriend and I are in the car.
• 7:40
  And when I moved, my doctors were like, something's funny in your blood works.
• 7:44
  I kept doing tests and found out I have an autoimmune disease, specifically rheumatoid arthritis.
• 7:52
  And changed my ability.
• 7:55
  My first time leaning into FMLA, I've never taken FMLA in my life.
• 8:00
  And I made the conscious decision to say, how am I going to center myself?
• 8:05
  And so currently I'm the co-CEO of the Black Wildflowers Fund trying to raise $10 million and bring that money back into educators who haven't got those opportunities.
• 8:15
  And I have that lived experience, equity steward for the Wildflower schools.
• 8:19
  So remember I'm opening schools for New Jersey.
• 8:22
  I definitely moved into another role, stewarding equity work.
• 8:25
  And I love the word steward, right?
• 8:27
  You don't do equity, you steward it.
• 8:29
  And then I'm managing my Inspired Minds Collide.
• 8:32
  That's my baby ever since.
• 8:34
  And people are like, how did it start?
• 8:36
  I got riffed.
• 8:38
  So baby Inspired Minds Collide, we're re-coaching, we support folks.
• 8:42
  Just got off of a plane from Michigan, doing an end note for a group of beautiful educators, doing this courageous work we call education.
• 8:52
  and I am funny.
• 8:55
  I'm a sister.
• 8:56
  I'm a daughter.
• 9:00
  I'm just really wanting to live and be who I've been called to be.
• 9:06
  And part of my calling is, and it's a quote, if you've come here to help me, you've wasted your time.
• 9:13
  But if you've come because your liberation is bound up with mine, let's work together.
• 9:17
  And I feel like that is, that's an indigenous quote.
• 9:21
  Aboriginal community Australia, right?
• 9:24
  They usually attributed to Lila Watson, but she's Larry like, no, it was a community.
• 9:28
  He statement.
• 9:30
  That's all I, that's who I am.
• 9:31
  I'm trying to figure out who I'm connected to and realizing our liberation is bound with each other.
• 9:36
  That's why I have a million jobs, also realizing that I have to center myself and be whole, trying to just live my calling and really be connected to the people that my
• 9:48
  liberation is bound with.
• 9:50
  behavior analyst certified by the International Behavior Analysis Organization, the Behavior Analyst Certification Board, or the Qualified Applied Behavior Analysis
• 9:59
  Credentialing Board, then you can earn one and a half credits for this episode.
• 10:03
  Just go to www.behaviorspeak.com, click on CEUs and enter the three secret words.
• 10:10
  The first secret word is disruptor.
• 10:13
  Is theater still a part of your life?
• 10:16
  Yeah.
• 10:18
  Okay.
• 10:21
  shout out to Mr.
• 10:22
  George Doreini, my theater teacher in high school.
• 10:27
  Theater is a part of my life in a very interesting way.
• 10:32
  When I get up to speak, Maya Angelou says, it's a video if you ever watch it, she's like, when I get up to speak, I bring everyone with me, right?
• 10:42
  I bring, right?
• 10:43
  I bring those theater skills, so thinking about, I'm looking at my corner, I still have my little theater drama kits, right?
• 10:50
  What are tools we need to meet people where they are?
• 10:54
  And some of those things of like really listening to folks, making sure people have a safe experience, curating that experience.
• 11:02
  In theater, we talk about something, the fourth wall, right?
• 11:05
  So one of the things that I don't do is I break the fourth wall constantly, right?
• 11:10
  And so how did I adapt that theater background to give folks what they need to be successful?
• 11:14
  And if I'm honest, Ben, I get nervous every time I do something.
• 11:18
  And my theater experience has prepared me to go, the show must go on, regardless of how I feel and how do I show up?
• 11:26
  And so those are the ways that theater trickulates for me.
• 11:29
  And I also just love the theater.
• 11:31
  I am about to go to the Nutcracker.
• 11:34
  I took my niece.
• 11:37
  We went to see Tina, the musical on Broadway.
• 11:39
  so I'm also a big advocate and fan of the theater and how theater, and I learned this in Ireland and London, how it can be used, not just on the stage.
• 11:50
  And so I try to bring those things, those relational things as I work and talk to people through my two degrees in theater.
• 11:58
  And how can that be a tool of liberation?
• 12:00
  So yes, I'm always a theater girl and you can probably hear it.
• 12:06
  I am still a theater girl, true and true, but I've moved those skills to something else.
• 12:10
  Well, hopefully I get to write another play another day, produce it.
• 12:15
  I would love to do those things, but there's some things that I got to do in this world that's connected to me before I get to those like graceful living my theater dreams out.
• 12:25
  Yeah, and so were you acting and pretending like as far back as you can remember?
• 12:30
  my gosh.
• 12:31
  So there's a funny story.
• 12:34
  I come from a very religious background and very conservative to the most part.
• 12:39
  like, you go to school, you're going to do this.
• 12:42
  So when I was a child, I always wanted to be a lawyer.
• 12:44
  It was like, you make money.
• 12:47
  I could help people.
• 12:48
  Right.
• 12:49
  And what evolved was my personality.
• 12:52
  And so in elementary school, I went to a small private Christian school.
• 12:59
  And I, as much as I'm big, I can be introverted as well.
• 13:03
  And they wanted to recreate Sister Act, like a part of it.
• 13:08
  And I had to become a nun.
• 13:10
  And they put me a part of this show.
• 13:12
  And to see the light that turned on in me, I was able to show up and speak.
• 13:19
  I'm also the child that when I was three, hid under the bed when the photographer came.
• 13:23
  So I do suffer with anxiety.
• 13:25
  Theater gave me a way to like,
• 13:27
  use my anxiety to my benefit, right?
• 13:31
  And do those great things.
• 13:31
  So I've always been interested in the theater, but it's giving me those tools.
• 13:36
  And I remember, and that's what made me apply to Rosa Parks School of Fine and Performing Arts, right?
• 13:41
  My goal was just to go to like parochial school, like I'm gonna go to parochial school.
• 13:45
  That little thing in my eighth grade year changed my whole life.
• 13:50
  And so I've always, and it's funny Ben, if you call my parents home nine,
• 13:55
  you will hear all the theatrics because I am still the voicemail.
• 14:00
  So people still, and it's a funny story.
• 14:04
  Outside of my consulting, right?
• 14:07
  I host baby showers, varmitzvahs, right?
• 14:12
  I hosted someone's wedding reception.
• 14:15
  so like people just asked me, like, can you do this?
• 14:18
  And so I'm honored that that little thing that was cultivated for me as a child.
• 14:25
  is still manifest and I'm able to use it in different areas.
• 14:28
  So it's still there.
• 14:30
  Right on, right.
• 14:32
  So I think I found you through a few different folks.
• 14:37
  One was through Dr.
• 14:38
  Holland Sims.
• 14:40
  to the combats my mentor sister.
• 14:42
  love you.
• 14:42
  love you.
• 14:43
  love you.
• 14:45
  She's incredible.
• 14:47
  And I also kind of connected with you through this work you're doing in Montessori, in the area of Montessori.
• 14:55
  I know so little about sort of the Montessori space, even what Montessori even means.
• 15:00
  And the point is maybe before we got to get into the Wildfire Fund and the Wildfire program that you're working in, you could tell us just a little bit about what Montessori
• 15:09
  even is.
• 15:10
  Absolutely.
• 15:11
  So let me take it back.
• 15:13
  So Montessori that name actually comes from dr.
• 15:16
  Maria Montessori and she's from Italy and if you really do research about the Montessori method and She was in Italy and literally she was working in a place where like children
• 15:29
  were written off and Took that as an opportunity to one and one thing we do in Montessori is follow the child, right?
• 15:37
  And how do we follow the child and create?
• 15:40
  these atmospheres where they can learn.
• 15:42
  So a lot of times in Montessori, you'll see age blending, right?
• 15:45
  So you have three to six, right?
• 15:48
  Seven to nine, right?
• 15:49
  And so how do we learn together in that?
• 15:51
  And also what materials are we using?
• 15:54
  And so how do we set up a classroom where students can figure out and pace themselves on how they learn and the teacher is actually a guide.
• 16:04
  If you talk to Montessori, is there like, I'm a guide.
• 16:07
  when they're sitting in this room and if you look at, and I'm a traditionally trained teacher, right?
• 16:11
  So I'm used to block, know, here I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this.
• 16:15
  They have big work blocks where they're just in the classroom and the teacher's walking around, right?
• 16:21
  I was sitting in a school and this was an infant toddler in primary program and I just sat down to observe, can I tell you one of the students, and this was just what they were
• 16:30
  doing, brought me a cup of tea.
• 16:32
  It couldn't have been more than two and a half.
• 16:36
  Two and a half.
• 16:37
  And it wasn't like, get Dr.
• 16:41
  ET.
• 16:41
  I just sat there and I was a part of their community and that's what they were doing, In their space.
• 16:47
  And so one of the things that hurt me so much, Ben, is that you see the question you asked me, I really didn't have any content knowledge until I moved into the work that I did for
• 16:59
  Wildflower.
• 17:00
  Realized that there is no Montessori school opened in Patterson, New Jersey.
• 17:04
  Why this?
• 17:05
  Beautiful thing where we are following the child and we're giving it.
• 17:09
  Can I push us?
• 17:10
  If you look at a lot of the folks who have a lot of money in this country, all of them are Montessori.
• 17:16
  They're either Montessori and they send their children there because they know this pedagogy is liberatory, right?
• 17:21
  But here's my concern.
• 17:23
  If it's that liberatory, why traditionally it's only for people who can afford it.
• 17:28
  Forty to fifty thousand dollars a year, right?
• 17:31
  most of the people and this is how I got into Black Wildflowers Fund, right?
• 17:35
  I'm working at wildflower schools and we want to build the equitable community embedded schools and the people of color, specifically the black people, only 5 % of us at the time
• 17:46
  were trained.
• 17:48
  Right?
• 17:49
  And I'm sitting here talking to you as a six figure debt holder for her student loans.
• 17:54
  So you're telling me Montessori is this liberatory word.
• 17:59
  We don't have enough people certified.
• 18:01
  And so I'm trying to help people open schools.
• 18:03
  And can I tell you what the biggest issue was?
• 18:07
  for themselves, for others.
• 18:10
  And if I'm going to open up a school where the socioeconomics do not match the general population of Montessori schools, that school is destined to fail.
• 18:20
  part of my work at Wildflower is to build sustainability for all teachers, regardless of how they look like, right?
• 18:27
  But then think about at Black Wildflower, what is that extra assistance needed to make sure your school is accessible, to make sure people can go there?
• 18:35
  And so I love the Montessori method.
• 18:37
  And it was a quote that I told, I just did a whole refresher.
• 18:41
  We have a year, it's almost like a family reunion for Wildflower.
• 18:44
  And I read this quote and I'm gonna read it to you.
• 18:46
  And it's so powerful.
• 18:47
  And I think it sums up the Montessori experience.
• 18:50
  In these times more than ever before, our hope is that education will offer an aid.
• 18:56
  to better the condition of the world.
• 18:58
  And that's Dr.
• 18:58
  Maria Montessori.
• 19:00
  And so how do we use the Montessori method in pedagogy in order to give our learners in what we need to be successful?
• 19:08
  Another thing about the Montessori method that I learned at Wildflower, there's Montessori for adults.
• 19:13
  And I think sometimes we do education to learners, right?
• 19:20
  It's not the same.
• 19:21
  If you notice, I am not trained, but I'm like, I'm a Montessori and I'm taking a step back.
• 19:26
  I'm observing, right?
• 19:28
  I'm looking at those things.
• 19:29
  And so it also builds capacity in adults, even where I work, right?
• 19:34
  We're looking things through a lens of like, how do we follow the work?
• 19:37
  How do we give students what they need?
• 19:39
  How can they be on their own journey in their learning?
• 19:42
  Because they're the person who's experiencing that learning, right?
• 19:46
  And then how do we bring that all together?
• 19:48
  So that's a little bit about Montessori.
• 19:50
  And a little bit why I did a whole shift to go wait, we can't open these schools in these communities without giving folks what they need to be successful.
• 20:00
  And that includes capital, that includes support, and that's ensuring the folks that need to go to that school can go to that school.
• 20:07
  Yeah.
• 20:08
  How'd you find Montessori in the first place?
• 20:12
  Glad you asked.
• 20:13
  Shout out to Dr.
• 20:14
  Deja Jones.
• 20:15
  Shout out to Honey Pop Monastery in New Jersey.
• 20:18
  So that's one of the schools we opened.
• 20:21
  Dr.
• 20:21
  Deja and I were just copies and friends.
• 20:24
  I'm working at a school in Philadelphia.
• 20:26
  People started to see I got my doctorate, all of these things.
• 20:29
  And if you know me personally, I'm all about entrepreneurship and making sure people have what they need to be successful, right?
• 20:40
  And so her and I were talking, she's like, I'm, I was introduced to Wildflower and I'm trying to open up a school.
• 20:47
  They're actually looking for somebody to help with New Jersey.
• 20:50
  Hey, I don't have a background in story.
• 20:55
  don't.
• 20:56
  And can I tell you what happened?
• 20:58
  She connected me and I'll say this, Seth Canvar, that is our founder.
• 21:03
  And if you go look at his Ted talk, he literally went to Massachusetts with his wife.
• 21:08
  She was like, find a school.
• 21:09
  He went to look for it he was like, the school doesn't exist.
• 21:12
  And that's kind of the start of how we opened our first Wildflower school and now we have older set, right?
• 21:18
  And so I just started having conversations with him, with Matt Kramer, with all of these people, Maia Blankenship, who's my co-CEO now, cause she's still energizing DC.
• 21:30
  And it was such a different experience of, it came to a point where like, these are great conversations.
• 21:37
  Do you want me to work here?
• 21:38
  Like, it was just conversations because I heard and I wanted to know, I had a job.
• 21:45
  I was very happy at my job in Philadelphia.
• 21:48
  And to learn more about the organization, we're a teal organization.
• 21:53
  And so what does that mean?
• 21:54
  Usually orange is hierarchy, right?
• 21:57
  If you notice, I didn't say Matt's title.
• 22:00
  I didn't say Seth's title.
• 22:01
  I just said their names because we're all partners.
• 22:04
  I don't work for anybody there.
• 22:06
  And neither did the teachers who were opening the schools.
• 22:09
  I was like, wait, what?
• 22:10
  No, we have an advice process.
• 22:12
  I give you advice, it's up to you to take it.
• 22:14
  And we have a school startup journey.
• 22:16
  That caught me.
• 22:18
  And then even in the joining their organization, they just wanted me to be well.
• 22:23
  What do you need?
• 22:24
  What do you want?
• 22:25
  Right?
• 22:26
  And so honestly, it was a leap of faith that January, I'll never forget it, January 2021, where I quit my whole job and had four going away parties.
• 22:36
  And I walked into a virtual remote position trying to open schools in New Jersey because it touched a heart string for me.
• 22:46
  And one thing about me, as much as I, you know, I, I track sure in Philly.
• 22:52
  love Philly.
• 22:53
  Philly is a second home to me.
• 22:54
  I I'm also from New Jersey through and through.
• 22:57
  And before I was anything, I was a student in New Jersey.
• 23:00
  And so how do we dismantle again?
• 23:03
  Remember I'm a disruptor.
• 23:04
  I felt like I.
• 23:05
  disrupt a little bit of just because you live in a certain city doesn't mean you have to go to that school.
• 23:11
  Just because you're a teacher doesn't mean you have to teach there.
• 23:14
  Maybe you can own your own school.
• 23:16
  One of the things that hurts me so much is that my dad's a great educator.
• 23:20
  I'm a great educator.
• 23:21
  We didn't produce a school out of that.
• 23:22
  Right.
• 23:25
  And so that's what made me shit.
• 23:27
  It was like a very guttural reaction to a friend who was going through this process.
• 23:32
  And now I'm so happy.
• 23:33
  Like now it's the mid Atlantic region.
• 23:36
  They have about four schools that are open and tractoring for three or four or more.
• 23:40
  Right.
• 23:41
  I'm also about that work of just because Erica is not there.
• 23:45
  How do I build sustainability?
• 23:47
  So no, I am not leading that work.
• 23:49
  I'm an equity steward, but I also still sit on advice teams, right.
• 23:53
  Where I'm able to give that information and take a step back and support folks.
• 23:56
  I'm supporting two black men in Philadelphia right now, trying to open up a school sitting on their advice team.
• 24:02
  So that's how it was very happenstance.
• 24:04
  was more of a organization loving me and saying, I know you care about this work.
• 24:11
  We can get up and they paid for me to like, go learn about Montessori, go do those things.
• 24:16
  And that was pretty easy for me.
• 24:18
  No, it was very happenstance of a friend said they were opening up a school and there was an opportunity and they couldn't get rid of me after those conversations.
• 24:26
  It came on that January.
• 24:29
  Sounds like you're breaking down lot of barriers.
• 24:31
  I'd like to hear a little bit more about those barriers.
• 24:34
  Why does it cost $50,000 to go to school at a Montessori school?
• 24:39
  Okay, then you dancing in my dissertation, but we gonna go there It costs that much because let's go back to education right hmm education in America Specifically, I'm only
• 24:54
  gonna talk here.
• 24:55
  It has an industrial complex, right?
• 24:58
  That's how our America was built.
• 24:59
  So like when schooling was tractured it was in this industrial way, right and
• 25:06
  what we've come to learn is, and then you think about Brown versus Board of Education, right?
• 25:12
  Actually, and you think about my dad, he's a black man, only 2 % of people who are teachers are black men, right?
• 25:19
  Really Brown versus Board of Ed, as much as it was a big legislative thing, it literally said, great, we're gonna bring everyone together.
• 25:27
  Who lost their jobs?
• 25:28
  Those small black communities because, right?
• 25:32
  And not that that was a bad thing, but what was the system behind it?
• 25:35
  And I think that plays a part.
• 25:37
  So industrial complex, right?
• 25:39
  Then it's like, okay, these legislations moved a lot, right?
• 25:43
  We just started building wheelchair ramps in the eighties.
• 25:47
  You know what I'm saying?
• 25:48
  Like, just like a, so did we create schools based on the learner or did we just create this system and hoped for the best?
• 25:56
  I think that's part of why we're here.
• 25:58
  And so we go to the eighties and like no excuses and you know, like punitive education didn't work.
• 26:05
  Right?
• 26:06
  And so what we've come is that we're putting band-aids on bullet wounds.
• 26:11
  And when I talk about disruption and dismantling, that's exactly what I mean.
• 26:15
  Again, my dad was a union leader.
• 26:18
  I was a public school teacher.
• 26:20
  I believe in public education.
• 26:22
  But my question is, is this sustainable?
• 26:24
  Is it giving folks what they need to be successful?
• 26:28
  If things change, will it crumble?
• 26:31
  And so I think for me, what I want to do is also, and let's talk about redlining.
• 26:37
  So at the same time in us history, folks could not buy houses in certain areas just based on their identity.
• 26:44
  Right.
• 26:45
  And so you're creating little microcosms of schools and let's talk about taxes.
• 26:51
  Depending on the taxes that you make, it depends on how you're, how much they allocate per people.
• 26:57
  Right.
• 26:58
  And so one of the things I want to dismantle is how do we center that community and say, what does this community need?
• 27:04
  What should this school look like?
• 27:06
  How are we going to pay for it?
• 27:07
  So when I talk to teachers, I'm like, what are we leveraging in funds?
• 27:12
  Are we fundraising?
• 27:13
  Right.
• 27:13
  How are we partnering with other?
• 27:15
  just left Puerto Rico.
• 27:16
  Right.
• 27:17
  There's a school and then it's connected right across between the playground is a, is a home where people live in this place.
• 27:26
  Right.
• 27:27
  And the beautiful part of that school is that not only they're feeding that community, but they also collaborate with those.
• 27:33
  So that's what I talk to teachers about instead of schools just going, Hey, you need a school.
• 27:37
  Here's the zip code.
• 27:38
  Looks like this.
• 27:39
  How many kids are going to show up saying, what does this community need?
• 27:44
  What don't they have access to?
• 27:45
  That's why I love Dr.
• 27:46
  Asia.
• 27:47
  Her school is half of the time they're outside and half the time they're inside because there's nature in New Jersey.
• 27:54
  And when I push you.
• 27:55
  Guess what New Jersey state name is?
• 27:58
  The Garden State.
• 28:00
  I seen a garden.
• 28:01
  Now where you live in New Jersey.
• 28:05
  Yeah.
• 28:06
  And so I think we have to look at at how do we collaborate one with LEA's local education agencies to say this is the history of education.
• 28:16
  Let's look at the data and see what we're doing.
• 28:20
  How is it benefiting?
• 28:21
  And then how do we co-create these new opportunities?
• 28:25
  for folks that have sustainable education opportunities in their world.
• 28:29
  Can I be honest with you?
• 28:31
  If I had that, so you have to look at my education.
• 28:34
  My parents paid for private education till I was in the eighth grade.
• 28:37
  I went to public high school and now I'm swarmed with debt from all of my degrees.
• 28:44
  And so one of the things that I hit as a co-CEO of Black Wildflowers Fund is you should not have a bill to go to school.
• 28:51
  So part of our biggest credentialing grant is
• 28:54
  I pay your training center directly, go show up and get the training.
• 28:59
  That's an easy thing we can fix.
• 29:01
  If you're telling me only 5 % of training, that means I need to move capital to get them trained, right?
• 29:07
  Another thing that we do at Black Wildflowers Fund is called school startup.
• 29:12
  I don't think people understand how much, and it's dancing, 250, 300,000, just that amount of money you need to open up a school.
• 29:22
  How do we really get in front of people and I don't fundraise, I'm a heart raiser.
• 29:26
  How do I heart raise that?
• 29:29
  How can we put money in folks hands who we know are trained well and know what they're supposed to do, right?
• 29:35
  Instead of buying into a system that might not work out, right?
• 29:39
  Depending on legislation or any of those needs.
• 29:42
  And I think one of the things that we also do, we have a teacher leader council.
• 29:47
  So there are seasoned educators who are not partaking in a grant.
• 29:50
  And they get to walk with us to look at grants and see how we allocate money.
• 29:55
  Why are we hiding the screen of how we do the work?
• 29:59
  And so I'm glad that we had our Niagara council.
• 30:01
  have four more people and they're going to look at applications next week for our night grant.
• 30:05
  What is that grant?
• 30:07
  Things happen Ben.
• 30:08
  I want to be able to give you up to $10,000 to address that thing.
• 30:13
  Right.
• 30:13
  Our folks in Puerto Rico invested, they, their budget didn't really see like they wanted to do this beautiful
• 30:20
  professional development, they were able to get an Ignite grant to do that, not out of their operating.
• 30:25
  And so I think sometimes as educators, we kind of feed the system that's not working for us.
• 30:32
  And instead of taking a step back and saying, what do these talented educators need who have a dream where they live to open up a school?
• 30:41
  And how do we dismantle those systems of oppression, particularly capital to do that?
• 30:46
  Because can I be honest, in my lived experience, I can't do it.
• 30:49
  Literally, I hope no one catches my personal information.
• 30:54
  It has been so difficult for me to buy property.
• 30:58
  Why?
• 30:59
  My debt to income ratio sucks, And most of it is education.
• 31:04
  I I don't, I pay down my credit card.
• 31:07
  That's right.
• 31:07
  So how do I create a new generation of folks who don't have to worry like I do to eat and also give to their local school community?
• 31:16
  So that's where I am with the word, like.
• 31:19
  I hope that answered your question.
• 31:20
  Absolutely.
• 31:24
  you provide funding for teacher training, provide funding to help folks build these schools.
• 31:32
  How do we help the folks to attend those schools?
• 31:39
  you help the folks that are creating them.
• 31:42
  I think sometimes, I'll tell you this funny story.
• 31:47
  I have a girlfriend, I will not name her.
• 31:49
  And this is how much the systems don't talk to each other.
• 31:53
  She had a baby and she was five, she was about to enter and she literally called me and was like, I haven't gotten anything about where my child's going to school next year.
• 32:06
  So did you go to the local school and tell them that your child exists?
• 32:10
  Right?
• 32:13
  Right now that same child is moving into high school and I'm teaching my friend how to manage their school district to figure out where she's going to go to a high school.
• 32:23
  Where is it?
• 32:23
  A local catchment or a magnet school.
• 32:26
  And what is that process?
• 32:27
  Right?
• 32:29
  I think that when we get down to educators, I think about my daddy, right?
• 32:35
  If he had the opportunity to have capital and build a school, there's not a necessary issue of enrollment if the price is right, particularly if it's free.
• 32:45
  And so when people are like, how do you get it?
• 32:47
  No, if parents literally had an opportunity and I'm not a birther, but I do have a stepson because you don't divorce kids, right?
• 32:56
  If I had an opportunity to ask my son, what do you want to do in life?
• 33:01
  I want to do this, this, this, this, and then
• 33:04
  There's so many options in my community to make sure you get what you need.
• 33:09
  Right.
• 33:09
  So I think when we talk about enrollment, the kids are here, particularly in those communities where like they don't have a lot of options.
• 33:16
  All you got to do is go to the school down the street.
• 33:18
  That's the only option you have.
• 33:20
  Right.
• 33:21
  What about if there were an opportunity for educators to hone that?
• 33:25
  Right.
• 33:26
  And then the enrollment will come.
• 33:27
  Can I be honest with you?
• 33:31
  A lot of my schools have a wait list.
• 33:33
  Right?
• 33:34
  And we, so cool.
• 33:35
  It's not like I want to get you in, I want to get you in.
• 33:37
  So I don't think it's an enrollment issue.
• 33:39
  I think it's more of an opportunity issue.
• 33:43
  If I just have to my child down the street to school number X, but if we had an opportunity, think that, and we literally, and one thing I will say is about Wildflower,
• 33:53
  and I've been a teacher, I've been an administrator.
• 33:56
  We call our teachers teacher leaders.
• 33:59
  If you see the design of a Wildflower school,
• 34:02
  Really, it can run on two teachers and they both play roles administratively and in the classroom.
• 34:11
  Do you understand as a parent when you go into a school and say, we're the two people working here.
• 34:16
  We run all the administrative and we also are the guides in the room.
• 34:21
  I don't know if you're going to have a struggle with getting people to come.
• 34:24
  The struggle is, can I pay for it?
• 34:27
  And I people all the time, I am.
• 34:29
  Graceful enough that my parents had the finances to send me to private school.
• 34:33
  You don't have that.
• 34:35
  Mm-hmm That's what I'm trying to tackle.
• 34:37
  And so I want to say like enrollment.
• 34:40
  I'm not worried about that.
• 34:41
  We're gonna How do we get the capital to say hey family?
• 34:46
  We have this opportunity and we have a way for you to pay for it We have negotiated with this we have a voucher.
• 34:53
  We're looking at universal funds, right doing those things
• 34:58
  their enrollment will be there.
• 34:59
  And that's what I think we've seen in our work of like, when you build it and you center folks, not only they will come, they will be a part of the corporation.
• 35:09
  So no, for me, it's more of how do we get more of these schools open so folks have the opportunity to enroll?
• 35:16
  They're not enrolling because they can't afford it.
• 35:18
  That's right.
• 35:20
  And I think for me, there's a system of oppression of if Dr.
• 35:24
  Maria went in Italy,
• 35:26
  and literally structured her whole work around the marginalized.
• 35:31
  And now most of our schools only touch the people that can afford it?
• 35:35
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:38
  That's a manifestation of a capitalistic society.
• 35:41
  Yeah.
• 35:42
  And so since I know I'm in that, how do I raise the capital to make sure that children that look like me and come from cities that I come from, and even children, I tell people
• 35:51
  all the time, I love our Colorado hub.
• 35:54
  They're like my, Colorado!
• 35:57
  Like, even in those communities, like it looks different from the communities that I serve in New Jersey, right?
• 36:03
  And how do we co-create these schools?
• 36:06
  So parents feel really good about sending their child there, not just about the money, but about their safety.
• 36:12
  Dr.
• 36:12
  Dina Simmons says, a child should be able to learn in the safety of one's own skin.
• 36:22
  And so, no, I don't know, it's not enrollment.
• 36:24
  It's more of where's the opportunity so people can actually enroll their child and not go into debt to do it.
• 36:30
  Yeah.
• 36:32
  So schools with two teachers, right?
• 36:35
  How big are these schools?
• 36:35
  How many kids are attending?
• 36:39
  They're micro schools.
• 36:41
  think so.
• 36:44
  They're usually 20, 23.
• 36:47
  But can I tell you those teacher leaders make that decision?
• 36:49
  And we also work with people of, you know how in regular education, I remember my first year teaching my kindergarten class had 32 children.
• 37:00
  By myself.
• 37:03
  No.
• 37:04
  Right?
• 37:05
  And so if I'm a teacher leader opening up this school, can easily, one of our schools, shout out to Dr.
• 37:11
  Angelina Holly Doylan and Comet.
• 37:14
  They have Aster open in Massachusetts, right?
• 37:17
  They have a team of four now.
• 37:19
  It started out with just them, right?
• 37:22
  And they were able to build on their school as the community needs represented itself.
• 37:27
  So we have schools who'll start out with just 12, right?
• 37:30
  And we plan for that.
• 37:32
  Like, do we have enough capital for you to really just get good with these 12?
• 37:36
  And then we rise to 24.
• 37:38
  And then we have schools.
• 37:40
  I'm thinking about the Dahlia School, right?
• 37:42
  They first opened as Dahlia Elementary, right?
• 37:46
  They have now Dahlia Primary, Dahlia Elementary, right?
• 37:49
  And San Francisco.
• 37:50
  Shout out to Lindsey Barnes, right?
• 37:53
  We're also able to keep it small and keep the community embedded and grow as the needs of the community, right?
• 38:00
  So we're not getting into a place of we just built this whole thing wishing for the best.
• 38:04
  We're going to slowly do this and make sure it's sustainable.
• 38:07
  and so think that's one of the biggest levers we have is that we keep it small and we also give our, one of our biggest core values is autonomy.
• 38:16
  You know, one of the things that I didn't like as a teacher.
• 38:21
  I went and got these degrees.
• 38:23
  And when I need help, I need it.
• 38:25
  But it was more like you would come in for 20 minutes and then tell me what to do.
• 38:31
  What's beautiful about the two teacher leader model is that, hey, I might be administratively higher here.
• 38:37
  Like I know some people who do not want to pay no bills, right?
• 38:40
  I just want to be in the classroom.
• 38:43
  So you can meet with that person and say, hey, I need to lean in.
• 38:46
  need to lean out.
• 38:47
  Do they not hire additional staff?
• 38:49
  Yes, we have the assistance, right?
• 38:51
  We folks what they need, but that hierarchy is not there.
• 38:55
  And so do you know where that trickles down to?
• 38:57
  Better decisions for the learner.
• 38:59
  Cause I don't have to think about, well, the superintendent said, no, I own this.
• 39:04
  have boards.
• 39:06
  All of the boards that Wildflower schools have have at least another teacher leader who did it before.
• 39:12
  Right?
• 39:13
  We also imagine of when people come to us and open up a school, I don't say,
• 39:17
  You have to open up an independent school where you are.
• 39:19
  Tell me what you want to do.
• 39:21
  We open charters.
• 39:22
  We open independent, right?
• 39:24
  We have, right?
• 39:24
  So we, we allow people to dream and then we make that work done because once we do that, I think that we're in a better position to give our communities what they need as it relates
• 39:35
  to schooling.
• 39:36
  So Montessori doesn't become this thing that I can never get.
• 39:39
  It's like, this is definitely an option for me and they are engaging me and I can make a better choice for my family.
• 39:47
  And is is is one story just like the early grades they have how how how does it go?
• 39:52
  Shout out to Dr.
• 39:53
  Kamonte Hottelberg.
• 39:55
  And so he's a professor at The Ohio State and he treachered through, he's a black man in psychology.
• 40:04
  And he did our fireside chat for Black Wildflowers Fund in June.
• 40:08
  And he went to the first public Montessori school in Ohio, in Cincinnati.
• 40:14
  He had Montessori all the way up, right?
• 40:17
  To high school.
• 40:18
  Wow.
• 40:18
  We have him, Wildflower.
• 40:20
  a beautiful high school, the earth school, right?
• 40:23
  So when people come to me are like, I want to open up a high school.
• 40:28
  Let's figure that out.
• 40:29
  And then I'd love to come let you see that school, right?
• 40:33
  Learning looks very different.
• 40:35
  So it's all ages.
• 40:37
  What can I tell you?
• 40:38
  The systems of oppression have told us most usually when I say Montessori, people are like, you early chopper.
• 40:44
  Yes.
• 40:46
  But all the way up to high school.
• 40:48
  So how do we dismantle that system of oppression that makes us think we can't have no high school?
• 40:54
  And I love what Cincinnati did and said, okay, how do we make this accessible for folks, Right?
• 41:01
  And so yes, all the way to high school.
• 41:04
  And I think that when I start to talk to people, I can imagine like, and he is the first like PhD black man from the University of Cincinnati.
• 41:17
  He had a Montessori, right?
• 41:19
  It's a, let me help you see it because there are so many children who might have a different trajectory if they had the opportunity to be in a Montessori environment with a
• 41:36
  Montessori guide.
• 41:39
  and so I'm trying to dismantle that.
• 41:40
  And also, can I be honest?
• 41:43
  promote folks to go get trained in that.
• 41:45
  I'm proud to train to pay for somebody to get trained.
• 41:47
  Shout out our applications open in January.
• 41:51
  You want to get trained in high school?
• 41:53
  Adolescence, that's what we call it.
• 41:56
  I have a couple of training centers, right?
• 41:58
  And I tell people all the time, MACD.
• 42:00
  So we're MACD accredited, right?
• 42:02
  So if you look, find a MACD accredited school, let me send you there.
• 42:07
  Let me pay for it because we need that high school.
• 42:10
  We need more.
• 42:11
  I wish we had more.
• 42:12
  second secret word is Montessori.
• 42:16
  And so I don't know anything about funding.
• 42:19
  I don't even know anything about funding here, let alone in the US.
• 42:21
  But is when you say a public school, does that mean this school is getting the same kind of public funding that a regular high school is getting?
• 42:31
  So here's the thing I want to talk through this I love my professor head on.
• 42:35
  Okay So when you open up a charter school, is essentially a public school And I think honestly I've worked in charter schools and public schools, right?
• 42:43
  I think there's a battle of like You're taking money out of the public sector to give to charter folks, right?
• 42:51
  I can dance with that because I've also been around people is like this school is not better than the public school down the street
• 42:59
  I think for us it's how do we really think about
• 43:07
  the system in which schooling is and open it up for everybody.
• 43:12
  Like that's why I talk about redlining.
• 43:14
  I don't understand why my zip code dictates to me the kind of schooling I have.
• 43:21
  That's literally someone's lived experience.
• 43:23
  So I think what we talk about, and I know you talked about funding.
• 43:26
  So yes, a charter school has public dollars, but what I push people is I just talked about a model where it's that model doesn't change.
• 43:36
  And we have to have these conversations with folks.
• 43:38
  They're like, wait, you're doing it this way?
• 43:40
  Yes, we are.
• 43:41
  Go see the River School in D.C.
• 43:44
  We were the one application that got through in D.C.
• 43:47
  for a charter and it is in a home.
• 43:50
  Look at it.
• 43:50
  It's so how do we and I think sometimes when I talk to people about that funding structure how do you know if you're gonna miss use the funds?
• 43:58
  I'm giving these funds back to teachers to manage these things Because when you look at different CMOs and charter management organizations hierarchy And this person is so
• 44:09
  disconnected from this person.
• 44:11
  I can see how funds could be misappropriated But when we talk about these laboratory schools
• 44:20
  particularly in our wildflower network, right?
• 44:23
  It actually equalizes the playing field to give Sonny and Ebony, I'm naming them, they have names who run the Riverseed School who are part of a public charter.
• 44:34
  And you're giving access to those students in that ward who would have never had that opportunity.
• 44:39
  I don't think that's going against our public system.
• 44:41
  I think it's righting wrongs for people who didn't have that opportunity.
• 44:46
  That's how funding goes.
• 44:48
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 44:50
  You've said, liberatory school a few times.
• 44:52
  What do mean by that?
• 44:53
  Woo hoo hoo!
• 44:57
  Liberation!
• 45:00
  means freedom.
• 45:03
  And I think, and I'm going to say it, I think we're getting caught up in like diversity, equity, inclusion, and not really talking about being free.
• 45:12
  Dr.
• 45:13
  I.E.
• 45:14
  Zay, he is the former executive director of American Monastery International.
• 45:19
  Shout out that, right?
• 45:21
  He was like, how can we, how can I assure education for learners when I'm not free?
• 45:29
  And that's the goal.
• 45:30
  I'm that quote, my, might've twisted it, right?
• 45:34
  I think sometimes, and I'll tell this story and I'm come back to liberation.
• 45:39
  One of the things that excited me about education was my daddy's lived experience.
• 45:44
  My dad is still a full-time pastor.
• 45:48
  I mean, he's 75, he's pushing it, right?
• 45:51
  But he worked for over 30 years teaching art and always had the capacity when he came home to be present for me.
• 46:00
  Uh, my dad used to stay late at work.
• 46:03
  would like tell my mom, like pick me up.
• 46:05
  He would get all his work done.
• 46:06
  And I felt like being a teacher was so freeing to be like whole.
• 46:13
  Cause my dad was able to like leverage being a pastor.
• 46:16
  He was my dad was Santa Claus in our city was I'd never forget it.
• 46:20
  Right.
• 46:21
  Right.
• 46:22
  He was able to do those things to help his community, but also had a job.
• 46:27
  that actually mirrored our lives as kids, right?
• 46:33
  Schooling has not become that anymore.
• 46:35
  If you talk to a lot of teachers right now, they depressed, they stressed, and COVID didn't help at all.
• 46:40
  And I think sometimes we were responding to COVID, but not responding to the effects COVID had on us, right?
• 46:49
  And so I think when we talk about liberation and being free,
• 46:52
  That means that the teacher's free to teach what they think is best because they went to get training to do it.
• 46:58
  And it's also looking at the child, right?
• 47:01
  It's saying, okay, what does this child need and how do we curate an experience for this child?
• 47:07
  And not just because they got an individualized education plan, IEP for everybody on the line.
• 47:13
  Shouldn't education, everybody have an individualized education plan?
• 47:18
  Dance, let's dance.
• 47:20
  That's true freedom.
• 47:22
  And so how do I link with other people to say, you know, the issues that you went through as a child learning, you also know the lived experience as you being an educator.
• 47:33
  What do you know so you can dismantle it in this school?
• 47:36
  So that generational effect doesn't happen again.
• 47:39
  That students actually said I went to school and I was able to dream.
• 47:43
  I was able to figure out what I wanted to do.
• 47:45
  That's not happening now, partially because we're pushing teachers on.
• 47:49
  That's the one thing about Montessori.
• 47:51
  You don't test.
• 47:54
  You want to go back to why we even got tested?
• 47:57
  If we actually trusted our educators and said, this is what children need to know, or maybe what we need to aspire to, and giving those educators what they need to be free in
• 48:06
  their roles, imagine how many children would be learning at a different level.
• 48:11
  And so that's when I talk about freedom, is the freedom to stand up and be Dr.
• 48:15
  E, who ate a whole plate of oxtails, rice and peas, and cabbage.
• 48:19
  when I was teaching my three hour coursework for my graduate students.
• 48:21
  That's me being free.
• 48:23
  Being free of my students before they got to me was very nervous.
• 48:27
  They were working professionals, right?
• 48:29
  And so they're trying to get their masters in doctoral level students and I felt something in the room.
• 48:35
  And I made my office a center where it was a safe space.
• 48:38
  Go pump, go cry, go do all of these things.
• 48:41
  That's free.
• 48:42
  So when they get into my classroom, yeah, I might've lost five or 10 minutes on them getting something to eat.
• 48:47
  Pumping.
• 48:48
  and not feeling gorge, let's do it.
• 48:51
  It's saying like, how can we be free?
• 48:53
  And I'm proud of all, shout out to my grad students.
• 48:56
  Some of them are doctors already, shout out to my doctors, right?
• 49:00
  They're able to now go into systems because of the experience they had as a learner and saying, I don't have to do it the way you did it.
• 49:09
  I'm gonna do it in a way where everybody who I touch in this ecosystem can live freely and be connected to themselves and get what they need to be successful.
• 49:18
  And so that's what I mean, liberation.
• 49:19
  How can we all get free to do the things that we've been called to do without the constraints of policy funding and a whole host of other things, including health and
• 49:29
  wellness?
• 49:30
  Wow.
• 49:30
  Cool.
• 49:33
  of the work you do sort of outside of here is in kind of areas like PBIS and multi-tier systems and support and all that kind of thing.
• 49:40
  And, and, and I've had a few guests on talking about that, including Dr.
• 49:44
  Alan Sims.
• 49:45
  And, I know a lot of that work is sort of centered around something you kind of, think you mentioned earlier, which sort of delineates sort of Montessori schools from regular
• 49:56
  schools.
• 49:56
  Just the whole traditional school model is kind of messed up and really, you know, hasn't been.
• 50:03
  hasn't been made to really, you know, center learning for everybody.
• 50:07
  and so MTSS I think, and PBIS is kind of, I think one way that we can sort of, you know, adapt the traditional learning system so everyone can learn and everyone can, you know,
• 50:21
  you'll benefit from it.
• 50:23
  Does, does, does the Montessori essentially
• 50:28
  the way the model works and, and, and especially if you're able to get someone that's able to go all the way from K all the way to high school, sort of negate the need for those
• 50:38
  kinds of things, or is that stuff already embedded?
• 50:44
  So and I'm gonna try to answer this I Think when we do good education it has tenets of multi-tiered systems of support And PBIS and I think there are Montessori schools who do
• 50:58
  implement PBIS and MTSS, right?
• 51:01
  Particularly if you're leaning into and I tell people all the time I lead with my god daughter and her diagnoses of autism.
• 51:08
  She is three, right and I think about
• 51:14
  If we don't think in a multi-tiered systems of support, my goddaughter is not going to get what she needs to be successful because of just the mere fact of her diagnoses, she has to
• 51:26
  lean it to different levels of intervention and support.
• 51:29
  And so let me bring it to you because somebody, when I first, like you go to the school that's in Philadelphia, people sometimes do not know my name.
• 51:36
  They know me as the PBIS lady.
• 51:38
  It's the story.
• 51:40
  Like, we're PBIS lady, right?
• 51:42
  I think.
• 51:43
  When you talk about Montessori and we talk about multi-tier systems of support and we think about the whole child and bringing all of these things together, I think that's just
• 51:52
  what good schooling is.
• 51:55
  But we just had to go spell it out for some folks, right?
• 51:57
  Can I give you one thing?
• 51:59
  And I think sometimes even this conversation of PBIS and MTSS can be oppressive and racist.
• 52:05
  It sure can.
• 52:07
  Why?
• 52:07
  Because some are showing up oppressed.
• 52:11
  with our own stuff, and so anything can harm.
• 52:14
  And I think when you talk about when people traction up, it's about giving teachers and leaders the tools to give folks what they need.
• 52:23
  And I think PBIS does that, particularly in teaching.
• 52:27
  I think sometimes everybody gets caught up on the token economy, but shout out to my folks who live with nothing.
• 52:34
  Our children have been working with nothing forever, right?
• 52:37
  And so I think sometimes we focus on the token economy, which is not...
• 52:41
  critical part of the framework and let me push you.
• 52:43
  It's a framework.
• 52:45
  You need to frame it for your community.
• 52:47
  And if a token economy is not yours, you that shouldn't be a part of your PBIS system.
• 52:52
  But I also want to ask you, how are we encouraging external and intrinsic behavior?
• 52:59
  Right.
• 52:59
  And so I think when we start teaching, like, so for instance, I grew up in a very religious household, right?
• 53:06
  Certain things, right?
• 53:08
  But take my colleague who grew up.
• 53:10
  very free willed, right?
• 53:12
  And then we go into this school setting, come on, dance with me, Ben.
• 53:16
  I school, yeah.
• 53:18
  There's a moment as a school community, we got a level set on what we do here.
• 53:23
  Can you come in with a whole bunch of stuff?
• 53:25
  I'm coming with a whole bunch of stuff.
• 53:27
  And I think NCS and PBIS level sets us in.
• 53:30
  This is how we do schooling here.
• 53:32
  Let me call you in so we can co-create these expectations and these norms together, right?
• 53:39
  So when we get in this school community, we're doing it respectfully, responsibly.
• 53:45
  And can I be honest and fully, we got core values of peaceful problem solver.
• 53:50
  Cause people like them, right?
• 53:53
  And I think sometimes somebody's like, well, I don't like the norms and the expectations, change them.
• 54:00
  But before you change them, go talk to the local store owners.
• 54:03
  One of the beautiful things we do when we come to PBIS and MTSS,
• 54:09
  is being community embedded, probably it's not working because you don't have everybody at the table to do it.
• 54:15
  Right?
• 54:16
  And so I think that it's teaching different like, and we talk about cultural competence, right?
• 54:22
  Who's creating the lesson plans?
• 54:24
  All the teachers who don't live in this community?
• 54:28
  It's one lesson that I helped co-curate.
• 54:32
  And I'm going to dance with this with you, Ben, right?
• 54:34
  And I'm going to say this, Ben, you're good.
• 54:38
  What did that feel like?
• 54:39
  Positive?
• 54:41
  If I said big, you good.
• 54:46
  And so part of it is understanding one's home culture and knowing like, that's how I talk to my family all the time.
• 54:54
  You, you good mean 10 things.
• 54:56
  And so if I bring, instead of saying, from a teacher's, and again, that's when power comes in.
• 55:02
  I don't know anything.
• 55:03
  No.
• 55:04
  Tell me more about your home culture.
• 55:06
  How can we embed it into this work?
• 55:08
  That's what PBIS and MTS does.
• 55:10
  It helps us bring everything together.
• 55:12
  And then if we're giving everything to everyone, let's talk about the tears.
• 55:17
  No child is a tear.
• 55:19
  Say it with me.
• 55:19
  No child is a tear.
• 55:21
  The tears are for you.
• 55:22
  Okay.
• 55:23
  Here one, all that means you're doing it for everybody.
• 55:27
  And what's supposed to naturally happen at MTS and PBIS.
• 55:30
  Cause you're looking at the data, data systems and practices, right?
• 55:35
  Who is not benefiting from everyone getting the same thing.
• 55:40
  Targeted support.
• 55:42
  But I'm still benefiting from what everybody else is getting.
• 55:46
  We're in targeted support, small groups, whatever, you know, some people call it check in, check out.
• 55:51
  And we start to notice they need a little bit more.
• 55:54
  And then we leverage those higher supports.
• 55:57
  And guess what?
• 55:58
  Some people, and this is how NTSS and PBIS get a bad rep.
• 56:03
  People should be able to move back down as they get what they need.
• 56:08
  Part of NTSS and PBIS.
• 56:11
  The framework is for us to be held accountable to give our students what they need to be successful.
• 56:15
  That's why we got to look at data.
• 56:17
  That's why we got to interrogate our systems.
• 56:19
  And then we got to look at people who say, I'm doing PBIS, but when I go on an observation, I'm like, you're not positive at all.
• 56:28
  You try the lesson, but you don't live it.
• 56:30
  And so I think those are the things about NTS and PBIS that I love.
• 56:35
  And when I hear naysayers talk about it, I actually go, who's using it?
• 56:40
  Ben, if you gave me a bicycle right now, I would do nothing with it except put it in the closet, because I don't know how to ride a bike.
• 56:47
  Some of the issues I have with districts and leaders is not like...
• 56:54
  I'm not a good educator.
• 56:55
  It's just like, we're mismatching tools.
• 56:57
  And I think MTSS and PBIS help us go, there's still a whole bunch of tools we can use.
• 57:02
  We know the culture and linguistic makeup in the communities.
• 57:05
  How do we structure our schoolwork that we already do to hold ourselves accountable?
• 57:10
  So if it doesn't go right, or we need to improve it, we can look at the data, look at the systems and adapt, like you said earlier.
• 57:18
  But I think honestly, it's a conversation of an, love us.
• 57:22
  But all of us aren't really aligned on what things mean.
• 57:25
  Like the first thing I say to people is like, oh, you do PBIS and MTSS, what does that mean to you?
• 57:32
  And then I start to figure out, oh, I remember someone's like, yeah, you just get free stuff in PBIS.
• 57:39
  Okay.
• 57:40
  Well, can I explain to you what PBIS and MTSS means to me and what it looks like?
• 57:44
  Because sometimes it's just people being harmed by somebody who did it wrong.
• 57:48
  And let's acknowledge that.
• 57:50
  And so a lot of my work, a lot of people say, Dr.
• 57:54
  E, you're the nice coach.
• 57:56
  I got a side too.
• 57:58
  I used to be called pit bull with a skirt.
• 58:00
  I'll tell you, right?
• 58:02
  But I think it's more of how do we be honest with ourselves and saying something happened here.
• 58:10
  And I'm going to pull on Dr.
• 58:11
  Ron Riddicker's help analogy, help history, equity versus equality, love and practices.
• 58:20
  pedagogy.
• 58:22
  Do that.
• 58:23
  Learn the history.
• 58:24
  Before you do PBIS, what's your history here?
• 58:29
  Analyze equity versus equality.
• 58:31
  Are you like my first grade teacher?
• 58:33
  Everybody got a pin great.
• 58:35
  That's cool But if I don't have a hand do I need a pin?
• 58:38
  Hmm Love I'm gonna argue that love is always part of students sense of belonging one of the beautiful things I was just saying to a colleague I went to public school, right and I
• 58:52
  loved my teachers.
• 58:53
  But again, I come from a very like conservative background
• 58:56
  And I had to get grades on costumes.
• 59:00
  I never trick or treated in my whole life.
• 59:02
  I don't celebrate Halloween, right?
• 59:04
  Just because of the way I was raised and the way my teachers adjusted that thing to say, you have to change who you are to fit here.
• 59:12
  It says, what do we have to change for you to belong?
• 59:15
  And so all across the way teachers are doing these things that were very MTSS to PBIS, right?
• 59:22
  Hey, where do we sit here?
• 59:24
  What additional people don't know?
• 59:26
  I had to go into a trailer in third grade because I had a bad stutter.
• 59:30
  Bad stutter.
• 59:31
  And imagine your daddy being a teacher, your mama is the letter carrier for the city, right?
• 59:36
  But I'm stuttering.
• 59:37
  And it took an MTSS, PBIS approach to say, what is the data saying about Erica?
• 59:43
  What systems do we have in play for her?
• 59:46
  And what practices do we need to manifest in order for her to be her best self?
• 59:50
  And so I love the question is like, what is PBIS and MTSS?
• 59:55
  It is a
• 59:56
  framework for liberation so we can do schooling in the best way we can to center our learners and that framework looks different in every situation.
• 1:00:05
  If it doesn't look different, let's adapt it for your school community and look at that data.
• 1:00:13
  I'm sorry, man, that's just where I am.
• 1:00:15
  Look.
• 1:00:16
  Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
• 1:00:17
  And kind of circling back to the Montessori again, just thinking about, because I know you talk a lot about belonging and thinking about the belonging of students.
• 1:00:30
  Is Montessori a place for kids like your goddaughter?
• 1:00:35
  Yes.
• 1:00:36
  I'm thinking about yes.
• 1:00:39
  And then you're the greatest tool in your toolbox.
• 1:00:43
  And so it by, it would be, but there's also teachers and practitioners that I'm very hesitant about being in my God daughter's ecosystem.
• 1:00:54
  If they are not clear on how to do their job.
• 1:00:57
  And so I'm a push you.
• 1:01:01
  I was on an advice team.
• 1:01:03
  Shout out to Katie Rodriguez, right?
• 1:01:05
  She opened her school because she's a mom of someone who has a diagnosis, right?
• 1:01:10
  so what did she do?
• 1:01:11
  Her Montessori school looks very different.
• 1:01:14
  And so they have additional staff, right?
• 1:01:18
  They're still doing Montessori, but they still have work blocks.
• 1:01:21
  But then also they hired additional staff because students need that level of support, right?
• 1:01:27
  And guess who else needs that level of support?
• 1:01:30
  the guide.
• 1:01:32
  Let's go back to Erika teaching 32 kindergartners.
• 1:01:36
  I needed something.
• 1:01:39
  Most of my kindergartners were not on reading level.
• 1:01:41
  Can I tell you, I spent my first year doing our bodies are instruments.
• 1:01:45
  Let's make our bodies the alphabet so they could know that they could cite words.
• 1:01:50
  That's what I spent a lot of time doing.
• 1:01:52
  Right.
• 1:01:53
  And so when we talk about Montessori, I think what is the difference between, and remember I talked about industrial complex.
• 1:02:00
  Yeah, public education Montessori pedagogy doesn't have to be bound by that so they can give you what she needs because I don't have to go through five million people go through
• 1:02:10
  title one two three funds, right?
• 1:02:13
  I Know my budget we make decisions We know what these children need and we're gonna curate environment to give it to them And that's what's so powerful about the Montessori
• 1:02:21
  experience that I want people to actually have access to I'm not telling you to send your kids to Montessori, but do you have the access?
• 1:02:29
  where I can say, Katalia can go there.
• 1:02:32
  And Katalia's mom doesn't have to stop her world to pay for it.
• 1:02:36
  See that connection?
• 1:02:38
  And I that's why, honestly, I'm in the Montessori space, but I'm still in the public education space and I'm still doing MTS PBIS work, right?
• 1:02:48
  Because I think sometimes in this work, we isolate ourselves so much.
• 1:02:52
  There's so much I've learned from being a Montessorian and being with Montessori is that I bring to PBIS and MTSS.
• 1:02:59
  Right?
• 1:03:00
  Before we write a manual or before we create any actions, can we observe what's happening now?
• 1:03:07
  I tell people all the time, I do this question in this training.
• 1:03:10
  I say, would you rather?
• 1:03:11
  So Ben, you rather work alone or in a group?
• 1:03:16
  Sure, yeah.
• 1:03:17
  You pick one.
• 1:03:18
  The last question I tell them not to answer, and this is the question.
• 1:03:22
  Would you rather give folks what they need to be successful or what you think they need?
• 1:03:31
  And that goes back to data.
• 1:03:33
  And that goes back to the PBS and MTSS.
• 1:03:35
  And that goes back to the connection of Montessoriians can make database decisions in the moment without the guise of rhetoric policy.
• 1:03:44
  And I think that's what's happening in Montessori spaces that I need to be able to share with the entire world.
• 1:03:50
  And of course, bring in public dollars, bring in public charters, right?
• 1:03:55
  So people can see this different lived experience because it gets us where we need to go.
• 1:03:59
  Yeah.
• 1:04:00
  You know, I think, and this is kind of a, I think just my bias kind of coming out in that, and probably everyone's bias is that, you know, schools are generally run one way.
• 1:04:09
  You know, there's a, there's a curriculum that the state or the province or the country sort of designs and everyone's going to follow it.
• 1:04:15
  It doesn't matter what it is.
• 1:04:16
  It doesn't matter what, you know, and certainly some States make them more restrictive and less, and some make them less and that sort of thing.
• 1:04:26
  And so I think when I think of Montessori, I just want Montessori to also be in a box where Montessori is just something where kids get followed around and teachers do stuff a
• 1:04:36
  little differently, but it's going to be all the same in every Montessori school.
• 1:04:39
  And I think what you're telling me is that because it's a liberatory school, each and every school has the freedom to do their own thing.
• 1:04:47
  Maria didn't do that in Italy.
• 1:04:49
  Let's take it back.
• 1:04:51
  And I think for us, because, and that's why I give history about industrial complex and systems, we're kind of giving people what we think they need.
• 1:05:04
  And I think I want to dismantle that notion in education where it's like, can we just go and see where people are and curate systems in order for them to gather that?
• 1:05:13
  That's what I love about my teacher leaders.
• 1:05:15
  That's what they're doing.
• 1:05:16
  I live and work, most of them are tried and true educators who've had public jobs.
• 1:05:21
  And it's like, something's not working.
• 1:05:24
  And I think also what we have to do is, and I tell people all the time, you also have to hold the people who are still stuck in the horrible education choice and situation.
• 1:05:37
  And I'm a product of that, of like, I feel like we're shifting and becoming aware, but I did not have the opportunity to have a Montessori experience.
• 1:05:46
  I also am carrying a lot of debt, right?
• 1:05:49
  And because someone told me my whole life, if you get an education and you're a good person, you'll be just fine.
• 1:05:59
  I'm not just fine, Ben.
• 1:06:00
  And imagine being sick on top of that.
• 1:06:04
  I've had to make decisions of, I go to work today?
• 1:06:07
  I remember passing out at one of my jobs because my time was off, up, but I wasn't feeling well.
• 1:06:12
  And I like, passed out.
• 1:06:15
  And the teachers are making those decisions every day.
• 1:06:19
  And so how can I change the environment where teachers feel whole, where they have a teacher leader to say, I don't work on Wednesdays.
• 1:06:28
  Okay.
• 1:06:29
  That is okay.
• 1:06:30
  Or I don't like teaching a math block.
• 1:06:34
  I actually would like to run our, our, our rent and like,
• 1:06:39
  I think sometimes we make it more difficult because we're giving folks what they think they need.
• 1:06:43
  That's why I'm so excited to be a field organization, because it's giving me a different perspective on really trusting the folks that you hire to do their job.
• 1:06:52
  And for the folks who are like, well, what if they're crappy people?
• 1:06:55
  That's why you have a framework to hold folks accountable and have that conversation.
• 1:07:00
  I'm not saying don't give people accountability.
• 1:07:02
  You know that it's a Netflix special that says don't F with cats.
• 1:07:06
  Don't F with kids.
• 1:07:07
  That's me.
• 1:07:08
  Don't.
• 1:07:10
  Save my spot in the jail, because that's where I am.
• 1:07:13
  And so I don't want anybody to be harmed.
• 1:07:17
  But we also have to give the power and responsibility back to these educators and also give them what they need so they don't feel burnt out, so they can live like my dad lived
• 1:07:27
  and be a great parent and be a great community member.
• 1:07:31
  But can I tell you what's happening to a lot of our teachers?
• 1:07:33
  We don't have enough people.
• 1:07:35
  They're stressed out.
• 1:07:36
  They're not feeling well.
• 1:07:37
  They don't feel like they can take off.
• 1:07:40
  Right?
• 1:07:40
  To heal themselves.
• 1:07:42
  And then you have teachers ready.
• 1:07:44
  Why do you think there's so many kids that don't want to be teachers?
• 1:07:49
  Look how we showing up.
• 1:07:51
  I talked to kids so much that I would never be a teacher.
• 1:07:56
  We didn't have that when I was growing up.
• 1:07:58
  Why?
• 1:07:59
  Because we've taken so much of that away from like the teacher.
• 1:08:03
  Where we brought it back to them and said, here's the genius.
• 1:08:06
  Because can I push you Ben?
• 1:08:07
  You talked about like,
• 1:08:09
  I know every collegiate course in education always teaches differentiated instruction.
• 1:08:17
  You probably wouldn't have to differentiate instruction if you differentiated the way you designed and built the school.
• 1:08:26
  So for me, you're asking me already as a teacher to, I got to do these tests, do this, and then differentiate it instead of saying, wait, how can I create this system where like I'm
• 1:08:37
  already
• 1:08:38
  moving towards what everybody needs and then the data comes out better.
• 1:08:44
  I'm a talker Ben, so just know like I'm having a good old time right now.
• 1:08:47
  I I'm loving it.
• 1:08:49
  I a couple more questions.
• 1:08:50
  I want to finish off with just kind of talking about the Black Wildfires Fund and kind of how folks can help and that sort of thing.
• 1:08:59
  This episode is probably going to come out sometime in kind of early 2025 and you know without getting too deep into sort of the politics of the world, there's been a change in
• 1:09:10
  administration and there's a lot of fear of...
• 1:09:15
  some big changes to education and as big as potentially no more Department of Education.
• 1:09:20
  It seems like the, I have no idea what kind of impact that would have on sort of the world.
• 1:09:28
  but it seems like you're, you're kind of setting things up so that maybe the hit won't be as hard.
• 1:09:36
  you know, by, by having these sort of liberatory schools and, and, and, sort of the, their, their own little boards and the, and the micro schools and
• 1:09:44
  all these sorts of pieces together.
• 1:09:45
  Is that fair?
• 1:09:47
  And I imagine there's some conversations happening.
• 1:09:53
  bit.
• 1:09:53
  I'm glad you asked.
• 1:09:55
  know, I part of my history because I come from this family, someone's like, you talk like a politician.
• 1:10:00
  I'm not trying to, but I'm going to go there.
• 1:10:06
  I am an ancestor of people who were slaves.
• 1:10:11
  And they taught themselves how to read.
• 1:10:14
  I'm just, let's just, let's dance, right?
• 1:10:18
  I thought to myself how to read.
• 1:10:20
  It was horrible conditions.
• 1:10:23
  I do not want that to happen again.
• 1:10:26
  And then I think about my daddy in the over 30 years he worked.
• 1:10:30
  You know how many times things are shifted?
• 1:10:34
  I am from New Jersey.
• 1:10:35
  Things have shifted.
• 1:10:37
  I think what we all have to come true is, and I tell people all of this, is that if you ever see an email from me, I say, with love.
• 1:10:46
  And I talk about my family history enough to say, like, there's some conversations that are hard for me and my family just based on how we show up.
• 1:10:54
  My dad has, my daddy and mommy got five kids.
• 1:10:58
  One's a retired cop.
• 1:11:01
  One manages, he manages, big things for cars.
• 1:11:05
  My sister is a manager at the mall.
• 1:11:07
  My other sister's a school social worker and you got me who no one can say what I do.
• 1:11:10
  Right.
• 1:11:15
  I think that if we, think sometimes Toni Morrison, says something and, thank you.
• 1:11:22
  It's the function.
• 1:11:23
  This is actually what they, what people want us to do to be disconnected.
• 1:11:28
  And I think that.
• 1:11:30
  Are you going to stop something because someone higher from you said that they're going to remove it or are we going to keep doing the good courageous work that education does
• 1:11:38
  itself?
• 1:11:39
  So one, I'm going to say we've been doing this and we will be okay.
• 1:11:43
  Everybody's figuring it out.
• 1:11:44
  Like Beyonce says, look, get information.
• 1:11:48
  Get information.
• 1:11:50
  You have all the data you need from what we've been going through the past couple months.
• 1:11:56
  You are stopping me and my mission.
• 1:11:59
  Absolutely not.
• 1:12:01
  Right?
• 1:12:01
  And so with or without a Department of Education, I'm still opening up schools.
• 1:12:05
  I'm going to make sure that students who have needs different from mine get what they need to be successful.
• 1:12:10
  And where I have capacity and impact is where I'm going to thrive.
• 1:12:15
  And that means run for your local school board.
• 1:12:19
  I think sometimes we're like, I tell people all the time, no one needs salvation.
• 1:12:25
  And if you think
• 1:12:27
  That the Department of Education is your salvation.
• 1:12:30
  When we not doing it, that's not what education is.
• 1:12:34
  Right?
• 1:12:34
  And so I'm going to wait and see how people move and look at my ancestors who've lived through this before as educators and go, what is my why?
• 1:12:44
  How do I get there?
• 1:12:45
  And what do I need to adjust based on the current climate I'm living in?
• 1:12:48
  For instance, right?
• 1:12:49
  I know I need to be a better fundraiser because it's just naturally unstickable right now.
• 1:12:55
  Right?
• 1:12:56
  I think also we, what is happening in our country right now is a clear division.
• 1:13:06
  But we as human beings are not designed to be divided.
• 1:13:10
  We just aren't.
• 1:13:11
  That's why we all beat them right now, right?
• 1:13:13
  But if I get to a room, right, and I'm having a conversation and thinking about...
• 1:13:22
  getting folks in the room who believe different things than I believe and say, can we come to a common goal that our children need to be educated for the next four years?
• 1:13:31
  Okay.
• 1:13:32
  Now let's harp out how this is gonna happen.
• 1:13:35
  I think we have to, Glenn Singleton talks about courageous conversations.
• 1:13:38
  We have to craft the courageous conversations, letting folks know where we stand, where they stand, and then planning ahead forward, right?
• 1:13:45
  I think we should talk about the politics of education.
• 1:13:49
  And I think, again, history.
• 1:13:53
  equity, equality, love, and practices.
• 1:13:58
  This is not new, y'all.
• 1:14:02
  It is unfortunate, but this is not new.
• 1:14:05
  And so how do we really have those conversations where we all know where we stand and we're clear on a common goal forward?
• 1:14:12
  I think for folks who are living in fear about any decisions that are made, I think you need to get clearer on your why and why is it so connected to that one thing.
• 1:14:23
  Can I tell you one of my dreams in life where to be the secretary of education?
• 1:14:29
  I don't think I'm going to adapt that dream.
• 1:14:31
  Because that job might not exist, right?
• 1:14:34
  And I think sometimes we put a lot of problem admiring and not a lot of problem solving.
• 1:14:40
  Erica's in problem solving mode.
• 1:14:42
  Okay, let's play all the scenarios out.
• 1:14:44
  And then how do we traction forward?
• 1:14:46
  I think sometimes we're getting caught up in the division instead of seeing like, what do we all align on?
• 1:14:53
  What are we all committed to?
• 1:14:55
  I don't think no one's out here saying don't teach children on either side or if you have a side at all.
• 1:15:00
  And so I think there's a moment of we need to have some critical conversations.
• 1:15:04
  Two, we need to also be able to figure out our whys and adjust accordingly based on whatever's happening in our ecosystem.
• 1:15:13
  And three, my ancestors did not lift every voice and sing for me to be silent.
• 1:15:18
  And so if my ancestors can figure out how to read and write on a plantation,
• 1:15:23
  I know I can be able to open up schools, fundraise, heart-raise, and do all that stuff with an entity being gone.
• 1:15:31
  And so let's have that conversation.
• 1:15:33
  But I think sometimes we just probably admire, like, look, look, look, fear stops you.
• 1:15:39
  Can I be honest?
• 1:15:40
  I'm more enthralled.
• 1:15:42
  I'm like, yes, do it.
• 1:15:45
  I've been doing this my whole life.
• 1:15:46
  I'm one of five, and have you heard all the things they do?
• 1:15:51
  I said, boys, can't stay with me.
• 1:15:52
  I'm okay with that.
• 1:15:53
  And they love me.
• 1:15:54
  But we're able to have these conversations and still create a world where their children, because my parents have trillions of grandchildren from my siblings, right?
• 1:16:05
  Where they're able to live.
• 1:16:06
  And I think about my nephew CJ, who's going to be able, regardless of what happens right now, will be able to be whatever he wants to be based on the decisions that me and my
• 1:16:15
  family and our local community has made.
• 1:16:18
  And so I need everybody to get information.
• 1:16:21
  Adjust your plans, figure out your why and how you continue to do the work for as many years as possible.
• 1:16:28
  And let's talk about sustainability, regardless of who's in office.
• 1:16:33
  I'm going to do my work regardless of who's in office.
• 1:16:37
  And so how are you going to do your work regardless of who's in office?
• 1:16:41
  Mic drop.
• 1:16:42
  And let's have that conversation.
• 1:16:44
  Yeah.
• 1:16:44
  Yeah.
• 1:16:47
  Right on.
• 1:16:48
  Take it all away.
• 1:16:48
  I'ma still teach.
• 1:16:50
  I'ma still open schools.
• 1:16:51
  Take it.
• 1:16:51
  I don't care.
• 1:16:53
  Take it.
• 1:16:56
  That's awesome.
• 1:16:59
  And we know it's doable.
• 1:17:00
  don't even think Canada has a department of education.
• 1:17:03
  So.
• 1:17:04
  Well, that's just right.
• 1:17:06
  Like for me, it's like, and here's the thing.
• 1:17:09
  And if you look at the department of education, and again, I talk about my God's order, like a multiple, special education funds are managed from the right.
• 1:17:19
  But how are we preparing our state and local entities to take that bruh where you live and pay taxes to say, if it ain't coming from there, what state funding are you providing for
• 1:17:30
  these local schools?
• 1:17:31
  So they can still get what they need to be successful.
• 1:17:33
  This can be honest.
• 1:17:34
  You can look at it two ways.
• 1:17:37
  You're getting to manage it very more intricately or it's like, you'll still be there to help me as I, as I scaffold.
• 1:17:44
  if I look talking to state departments and local LEAs, I need you to plan accordingly.
• 1:17:49
  How are you going to meet the needs of those populations that were done by someone else at the federal level?
• 1:17:55
  If it goes away.
• 1:17:56
  And that's all I'm saying.
• 1:17:59
  And look.
• 1:18:00
  And let's be proactive.
• 1:18:02
  If you didn't like how everything went down, make some decisions and to curate a life where you can make better decisions, right?
• 1:18:09
  And I think, and I know some people are like, ooh, okay, Erica, because for me, this conversation and like what's going on in the world is taking us away from giving our kids
• 1:18:18
  what they need to be successful.
• 1:18:20
  I don't have time.
• 1:18:22
  again, I love how you were like not to pick us up.
• 1:18:26
  If you notice, I've been very, right?
• 1:18:30
  We're like, well, you can't be neutral.
• 1:18:31
  have my own stances.
• 1:18:33
  Get off this podcast with me.
• 1:18:34
  We can have a whole conversation about what Erica believes.
• 1:18:37
  But is that helpful to the learners that I'm trying to open schools for?
• 1:18:42
  No.
• 1:18:44
  So I'm not saying have your beliefs.
• 1:18:46
  Believe what you believe.
• 1:18:47
  But when it comes to the schooling of children, I need us all to get on the good foot and get information and figure out how can my goddaughter still access funds for the things
• 1:18:57
  she needs because of her diagnosis.
• 1:19:00
  if this goes away or not.
• 1:19:02
  should have a backup plan anyway.
• 1:19:04
  I'm confused too, sorry Ben, I'm on a rant.
• 1:19:08
  I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket, maybe because I've been divorced.
• 1:19:14
  Put my eggs in one basket.
• 1:19:16
  This is actually helping you plan accordingly.
• 1:19:19
  Just plan accordingly.
• 1:19:20
  And I tell people all the time, and if you need a partner because our liberation is bound up with each other, call me.
• 1:19:26
  We can figure it out, I promise you we can.
• 1:19:28
  My daddy worked 30 years, he probably had different leaders in all of them.
• 1:19:38
  Right on.
• 1:19:39
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it.
• 1:19:44
  Let's finish off with the Black Wildfire's Wildflowers Fund.
• 1:19:50
  Tell me a little bit more about it and how you plan to raise 10 million.
• 1:19:56
  Okay, ready?
• 1:19:57
  I'm planning to raise two million having these conversations, art racing.
• 1:20:01
  We've already raised two million.
• 1:20:02
  Shout out to those folks who already, you know, I'm not gonna fight it, right?
• 1:20:08
  Black Wildflower's fun, and I want to shout out my co-CEO, Maia Blankenshit, is.
• 1:20:17
  We are in the effort to dismantle systems of oppression that affects black educators.
• 1:20:22
  And right now we're focused on Montessori, but no, we're trying to grow.
• 1:20:25
  Again, I'm not Montessori trained.
• 1:20:26
  So eventually our organization is going to evolve.
• 1:20:29
  Right.
• 1:20:30
  so part of, talk to you a lot about grant programming.
• 1:20:33
  Can I tell you one thing that we do that I think is profound and it blessed my life.
• 1:20:40
  We bring all of our grantees and folks in our ecosystem together every year.
• 1:20:46
  for a weekend of wellness, rest, and exchange.
• 1:20:50
  What does that been?
• 1:20:52
  As many people have invited me to conferences and say, you gotta pay $500, the hotel's this.
• 1:20:57
  Your money is going directly to get somebody to this place and they pay for nothing.
• 1:21:02
  I'm paying for the travel, I'm praying for the hotel, I'm paying for the professional development, I'm praying for the food.
• 1:21:09
  And I think sometimes when we're doing this work, we have this community of practice right now.
• 1:21:13
  They're in their virtual professional learning communities.
• 1:21:16
  Why bell hooks teaching the transgress places we know we're not alone.
• 1:21:21
  A lot of the time, and I think even to your previous question, it also makes us feel like we're alone.
• 1:21:27
  So bringing all of us together and eating a meal, telling what we're going through, sharing, do you understand that the number went up since the last gathering I had in DC?
• 1:21:38
  It's 7 % now of Montessori is trained.
• 1:21:42
  And so for us, we are naturally battling that system of oppression, but also creating communities of practice.
• 1:21:48
  I know that Dr.
• 1:21:49
  Hoddlebird, we have fireside chats, Montessori on wheels to tend to, hey, right?
• 1:21:55
  Bringing in these folks to have these innovative conversations, follow us, blackwildflowers.org.
• 1:22:00
  We're having a fireside chat on having agency and finding a Montessori training center with three.
• 1:22:08
  Folks who are in the work.
• 1:22:11
  I think sometimes when we talk about Black Wildflowers Fund, I'm not just funding your pocket, I'm funding your spirit.
• 1:22:18
  So if the money is not there, who do we know connected to that went through something similar?
• 1:22:23
  Our teacher leader council, when you come to the exchange, you are connected to at least one person who has done this work.
• 1:22:30
  Our teacher leader council have schools opening and thriving.
• 1:22:34
  So sometimes you're at the point where like, just got rejected from a big fundraising thing.
• 1:22:40
  I don't have this money.
• 1:22:41
  Sometimes it's the exchange of ideas.
• 1:22:44
  I teach a lot when I'm with people.
• 1:22:47
  There's a moment in this room and I need you to find it.
• 1:22:53
  And so we create this community of practice so they can find it.
• 1:22:58
  You can find it, but then also at the same time, Heather Gerker, out to her.
• 1:23:03
  We were at a conference and a couple of years later, she was like, you did exactly what you said you were going to do.
• 1:23:07
  I should it right.
• 1:23:10
  I can't sit here and say, come together, be one.
• 1:23:12
  And I don't give you any money.
• 1:23:14
  And so I tell people all the time, we're doing a donor campaign right now.
• 1:23:18
  Donate that.
• 1:23:19
  Right.
• 1:23:20
  We also, I'm having a sponsorship for the exchange.
• 1:23:24
  can be an abundant sponsor or you could even go to the, to the low part.
• 1:23:28
  Right.
• 1:23:29
  And so how can you just pay for someone's ticket to come?
• 1:23:32
  How can you just help me pay for some food?
• 1:23:36
  Because I want our folks who come to the exchange and come to our annual gathering to feel better than they did before.
• 1:23:43
  can look at our website to hear what people said and how life changing it was.
• 1:23:49
  The only thing that's going to stop me Ben is not having enough money.
• 1:23:54
  Help me not make that a reality.
• 1:23:57
  you, black wildflowers is going to bloom and thrive.
• 1:24:02
  but will you be a part of it?
• 1:24:04
  Because I tell people all the time and I'm not a, Ben, I am a trained educator.
• 1:24:10
  I don't have a fundraiser.
• 1:24:11
  The fundraising background came in when I came into Wildflower and that's why I call it heart raising.
• 1:24:20
  I don't want anybody else to go through what I've went through, feeling alone, feeling like you don't have any resources in the capital to do the good work.
• 1:24:29
  That's what Black Wildflowers does.
• 1:24:32
  people know this already.
• 1:24:33
  I work part time and then I work part time again.
• 1:24:36
  And so part of my issue as a leader is like, I probably work more than I need to, right?
• 1:24:43
  Because I am sick, I'm dealing with some health issues.
• 1:24:46
  And so I also come in, when you come to the exchange,
• 1:24:48
  Last year, everybody either got a massage, we had a sound bath.
• 1:24:52
  I was crying.
• 1:24:53
  was like, oh God.
• 1:24:55
  It was just so healing to come to that moment and go, help me pay for it.
• 1:25:02
  Help me pay for it.
• 1:25:03
  Help me give somebody no debt when they go to apply for a house.
• 1:25:07
  Let me put it big.
• 1:25:08
  Let me help somebody go get a house and they don't have to leverage their life for it.
• 1:25:14
  That's what Black Wildflower's done because we want you to dream.
• 1:25:17
  We're dreamers.
• 1:25:18
  Yeah.
• 1:25:19
  I didn't manifest, that's why we keep saying, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip,
• 1:25:33
  tip, tip, tip, tip, tip,
• 1:25:47
  Right?
• 1:25:47
  Cause what we do is like, we'll help people open schools.
• 1:25:50
  Right.
• 1:25:50
  And then for black folks, particularly we thrive in community.
• 1:25:55
  And so I also want to keep that continuum going for them.
• 1:25:58
  Right.
• 1:26:00
  and know like we have so many beautiful brothers and sisters that don't look like us.
• 1:26:04
  Right.
• 1:26:05
  And who are investing in this work.
• 1:26:06
  So that's what we do.
• 1:26:08
  We're trying to put money and capital back into black educators and also create a community of practice where you're driving and.
• 1:26:15
  If you're sinking, we can see you and grab your hand.
• 1:26:19
  No one, that's, that's my, and because of my personal physical mental health journeys, never want people to feel like it's no lifeline.
• 1:26:30
  And so I hope, and I'm shouting out to everybody, join our newsletter.
• 1:26:33
  I want you to be in community with us.
• 1:26:35
  I don't ever want you to feel alone.
• 1:26:37
  Yes, I'm about to add two more hours to my life if you email me, but I do not care.
• 1:26:42
  I want you to be free.
• 1:26:43
  want you to be loved and I want you to do the courageous education work.
• 1:26:46
  And Black Wildflowers is just trying to usher that for folks that look like me and who are in a Montessori environment where they have not had a lot, a lot of love and a lot of like
• 1:26:55
  focus on their work.
• 1:26:57
  Yeah, that's awesome.
• 1:27:00
  I just remembered I got one more question.
• 1:27:04
  This is related to sort of a bit of a pivot to some of your work at APBS.
• 1:27:11
  I saw in one of your bios that you were, it like you're just finishing up a term on the board of directors.
• 1:27:20
  been elected.
• 1:27:23
  So are you ready?
• 1:27:26
  and I'll tell you this story and I want to shout out to APBS.
• 1:27:30
  Shout out to Cece, our new Sharretta, who is our new executive director, Black woman.
• 1:27:37
  Right.
• 1:27:38
  When I first APBS, I was a person working at a school district where we had we have received the school transformation grant, big federal grant.
• 1:27:48
  Right.
• 1:27:48
  So I was going to these.
• 1:27:50
  And meeting people like Dr.
• 1:27:51
  Nicole, Kent Mackensosh, right?
• 1:27:53
  All of these people.
• 1:27:58
  And APBS, I had been a student member.
• 1:28:01
  Like I went there on the real cheek rate as a doctoral student.
• 1:28:07
  And it's funny, I never saw myself being a part of a board.
• 1:28:12
  look at the history of APBS's board.
• 1:28:14
  Just look back, it's majority white, right?
• 1:28:18
  And so when at first I'm a little hesitant, like I knew that the board was working on making the board more diverse.
• 1:28:24
  And so they created an honor roll race and ethnic seed, which I thought.
• 1:28:30
  And one of my fears was like, I'm going to be the selected black girl.
• 1:28:35
  But what I'm come to realize been Google a PBS.org and look at the current board.
• 1:28:40
  It's the most diverse we've had.
• 1:28:43
  we have Dr.
• 1:28:44
  Sarah.
• 1:28:46
  feeding us as our APBS president, right?
• 1:28:49
  And so, and I've been reelected and I'ma tell y'all I'm in here for the work and it's not personal, How do we really model to the international community?
• 1:29:01
  Shout out to Diana, right?
• 1:29:02
  She has to literally wake up in the middle of the night to come to board meetings, right?
• 1:29:07
  How do we usher a board where we do what we say and if we don't do it well, we're gonna change that?
• 1:29:14
  Yeah.
• 1:29:15
  And so I think with APBS, I got this inaugural seat and I was very clear on like, this is to usher in more, right?
• 1:29:23
  It's also to open up to our membership to say, you have a voice, right?
• 1:29:29
  I'm so proud that we hired our first black executive director, but can I be honest with you?
• 1:29:35
  I'm also a black CEO and that's a lot.
• 1:29:39
  Just interfacing.
• 1:29:40
  Do you understand fundraising looks completely different for me as it does someone who is white and male?
• 1:29:45
  Sure.
• 1:29:47
  I don't care for money.
• 1:29:48
  I tell people all the money you bet.
• 1:29:49
  All the people I know going to get fired out.
• 1:29:51
  That's right.
• 1:29:52
  He's right.
• 1:29:52
  He's a.
• 1:29:53
  And so I so I love how our board really rally together.
• 1:29:58
  It's the opportunity of me getting that seat.
• 1:30:00
  Right.
• 1:30:01
  So now, can I be honest with you, Ben?
• 1:30:03
  Ask me what seat I'm sitting in.
• 1:30:05
  A regular board seat.
• 1:30:07
  Hmm.
• 1:30:08
  Someone else has the designated race and ethics seat.
• 1:30:12
  What does that say?
• 1:30:15
  Right.
• 1:30:15
  It's like, if we talk about which will sustain and nurture the growth of the people, we are not alone.
• 1:30:22
  And I'm so proud to be on that board because it hasn't been easy.
• 1:30:26
  It has not been easy.
• 1:30:28
  But what we are is committed to the work of APBS, right?
• 1:30:31
  From birth to earth, right?
• 1:30:34
  And how can we create these moments?
• 1:30:36
  And also, how can we heal for folks who met us at a different point in our organization?
• 1:30:41
  And how do we empower and welcome people
• 1:30:44
  who as we emerge and really refine our work.
• 1:30:48
  And so APBS is dear to me.
• 1:30:50
  I still have my student bottle.
• 1:30:52
  Someone stole it.
• 1:30:53
  I'm pissed.
• 1:30:53
  It was at an airport.
• 1:30:55
  If you have it, you have Dr.
• 1:30:56
  E's water bottle.
• 1:30:57
  says student network APBS.
• 1:31:00
  But one thing I've learned is that I've grown as a professional and I won the Ted Carr Award.
• 1:31:04
  Can I be honest?
• 1:31:07
  APBS is the first place where I felt like I belonged.
• 1:31:14
  I've been doing work for a long time and that was one of the first awards I ever got.
• 1:31:20
  And my boss, and I think it was a TA center nominated me.
• 1:31:25
  It also showed me what access looks like.
• 1:31:30
  And I'm saying this and I've never said this publicly, but thank you for loving me when I didn't know how to love myself.
• 1:31:36
  When I was just doing the work and I think all organizations have their issues, but I think that being a part of APBS has helped me grow my practice, but also put a mirror to
• 1:31:48
  me and say, you are not alone.
• 1:31:50
  And so I encourage everybody to go to APBS.org.
• 1:31:53
  We're going to St.
• 1:31:54
  Louis next year, right?
• 1:31:56
  And come and learn and grow with us, but also.
• 1:31:59
  Please use us as a lens and as a tool to go.
• 1:32:02
  We can do the work.
• 1:32:04
  It won't be easy, but we can do the work.
• 1:32:07
  And little Erica like me, I would not be here today without my community from APBS.
• 1:32:11
  I love y'all so much.
• 1:32:12
  So I mean that from the bottom of my heart, from a student member to a board member, race, ethnic, seat, I want love you.
• 1:32:19
  We love you.
• 1:32:20
  And just, I appreciate the good courageous work APBS is doing.
• 1:32:24
  It's awesome.
• 1:32:25
  Well, I encourage folks to check out my interview with Chirrata.
• 1:32:30
  Erica, this was fantastic conversation.
• 1:32:32
  I'm glad it finally happened.
• 1:32:35
  I'm glad it finally happened too.
• 1:32:36
  said, look, shout out to the people on the line.
• 1:32:39
  There are some times when you're like, Ooh, I got to do something.
• 1:32:42
  I just want to say Ben, thank you for touching the world and being such a light.
• 1:32:47
  and I appreciate you even before coming on this podcast.
• 1:32:51
  I want to tell you that I appreciate you.
• 1:32:53
  I love you and thank you.
• 1:32:55
  Keep speaking truth to power.
• 1:32:57
  We see it.
• 1:32:59
  Thanks Eric, I appreciate it.
• 1:33:00
  My secret word is empower.
• 1:33:07
  Well, that was just awesome.
• 1:33:09
  If you liked this episode, I encourage you to check out episodes 114 with Dr.
• 1:33:13
  Nicole Holland Sims and episode 195 with Charretta Clerkly.
• 1:33:17
  If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
• 1:33:25
  And please follow us on Instagram at BehaviourSpeak.