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Transcript

with JP Morgan's Arlene Ingram · Two in Twenty

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to another episode of 2 in 20, the podcast brought to you by the Alpha Agency team.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Twink Field, and today I'm so excited to say I'm talking to Arlene Ingram from JP Morgan.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: She is the MD and CMO of Amir for JP Morgan Asset Management and talking to us about all things from how to prioritise your resources and budgets in the region to the use of data and AI and some really great tips for listeners as well.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: So straight over to my conversation with her.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Arlene, it is great to have you with me here today.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for taking the time.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I've got a few questions lined up ready for you.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: But before we do that, maybe you could just give everybody a feel for your career today so that we've got a bit of that kind of background understanding.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, thank you for uh inviting me.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's an honor and a pleasure.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's always nice to spend a bit more time with you.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: So thinking about my career, and I, you know, how far back do you want to go?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: It makes me feel like a dinosaur.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I've been working in the city for the past uh 26 years, which is crazy.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I've I've I've spent my time in two big institutions and moved sort of within each of those.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: I started at Goldman's and I started on the equity trading floor, working in a client um sort of client relationship role, which then morphed into a business management role, which then um I saw the the bright lights of asset management, moved over there and did product marketing again.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Some more I became the chief of staff for sales, and then I reverted back to marketing.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing kept calling me, um, and I headed up their marketing team, and then I I moved over to JP um and headed up our international institutional marketing team.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I've now landed heading up all of AMIA.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that seems like a new job for anyone, like you know, heading up a MIA for JP Morgan.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: That feels like, you know, multiple markets, lots of capabilities, you know, how do you I guess what are the learnings of that?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like lots of people are trying to fathom the most optimal way to do that that's effective, but also, you know, not too resource-draining.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: So just when you're sort of overseeing a strategy like that and thinking of all those different audiences, like what what would be your key learnings already on that in that role?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, so I mean, I'm I'm learning every day, so I'm not gonna pretend that the learning stops.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I I think the important thing to remember is um, you know, you you do need to have some central guardrails around brand and focus and approach, but then allowing that flexibility for different markets, and by that I mean different countries.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: I also mean different audiences within those countries.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: So allowing your marketers the ability to tailor and flex to meet all of those different needs and meet clients where they want to be met and how they want to be met.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and doing that balance between what is right central and what is right for tailoring, um, it does take some time.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we never we don't get it perfect, and it's always re-evaluating, revisiting, having lots of conversations, having clear, having a clear strategy really helps and plays into that.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: But it is a balance.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you're always asking yourself, have I got it right?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Have I gone too far with pushing this down from a central?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you just need that feedback loop to make sure that you're always tweaking.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I I'm never done.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've never done that.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, like I imagine to do that, you probably got different matrices as well.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got the kind of structured as well as the informal conversations always um at play.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you make sure, like, how do you prioritize within that, you know, kind of year on year, and make sure you're not in that sort of dreadful place of having to be all things to all men in all markets all the time, because there are always going to be different pockets of your teams across markets and with their different priorities, wanting some kind of marketing likes to be switched on.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I'm really fortunate in that our business and from top all the way down is very much focused on focus, if you will.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: We have uh a good discipline of setting out clear business priorities.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Within that, we have clear focus products, which allows the functions like marketing to say, this is on the list, this isn't on the list.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if it's not on the list, let's have a conversation around why and how and what does it mean and what comes off the list to make room for that.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think you have to you have to maintain that discipline of saying no for things that don't align to the strategy.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, listen, that is not easy.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: That is that is is a really hard thing because you want to be everything to everyone.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I as I said, we're really fortunate that it it is sort of a company culture, if you will, that this is the area of focus.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's very clearly communicated, we all align our um objectives to those focus areas, and then it it sets those guardrails for the conversation of sorry, that isn't on the list.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Help me understand what it should replace.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean that you don't flex it or change it throughout the year, but it just helps you with that starting place for the conversation.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting, isn't it?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's a an expectation of language, the expectation of being able to push back based on priorities and focus and things like that, which you know takes time to have that kind of muscle in the business or or sort of language that everybody kind of coalesces around and has expectations around in terms of behaviours.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So really helpful, I think, when I think for some, you know, that sort of ability to say no is really difficult because that sort of that language, that common language or expectations around sort of marketing's response is always to almost be subservient or always sort of always sort of take the remit and deliver on it.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and you and you you will always have lots of people who you know they're incentivized to care about their area and their area alone, and then they're gonna want something from marketing, and you have a long line of these people who all want something from you.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and I think you know it's really hard when somebody's not on the list.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So making sure that you have enough of a sort of BAU background or or sort of almost serve your own kind of marketing tactics or strategies that can help those people means you're not ignoring them completely.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's a sort of base level of cover.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting because I bet a few people listening would think surely JP Morgan's got all the resources and the budgets in the world, they're not gonna have to prioritize.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: But as you said, that's obviously not the full story.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it'd be it'd be great to hear about how you think about demonstrating effectiveness, efficiencies, what this all means when it comes to kind of the strategy, the process, the reporting or tactics.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do you what what are your sort of thoughts around that?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I chuckle when you say that.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I know perception and reality are two different things.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Resources are finite, and we're expected to make the most of what we have and use them wisely.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm held to account in terms of return on investment.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really important for us to use the data and the resources and measurement to be able to go back and have a very educated conversation around this is paying dividends, this is working, this is generating the right sort of engagement or the right sort of flow through from sales, and this isn't.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're gonna stop doing that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And having that discipline, and sometimes you're gonna be able to have black and white measurement, and sometimes it's gonna be gray, but having conviction and investing in it and using that to make your decisions is gonna be a really helpful place.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: It builds credibility and trust from your stakeholders as well.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I always laugh that you know, a client may like blue, I might like yellow, and the salesperson might like green.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Guess where we're going?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're going wherever the client has the traction.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it takes away that subjectivity and opinion.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we know there's lots of opinion in marketing.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you're able to use data which is becoming more and more available and more and more uh scalable and accurate, it does allow you to say, um, we're gonna start doing this, we're gonna stop doing this, and we're gonna make sure we're making our using our resources in the right way.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting, isn't it?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: When to your point around having those sort of educated conversations based on that insight, the ROI, as you say, the sort of hunger for these businesses and that expectation, frankly, for marketing to be able to show sales signals and interactions and things.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you how do you make sure the balance is kept between that level of sort of performance marketing which is maybe more short-term, demonstrating all those sort of those who are in the market today versus that kind of longer term view of brand building and investment?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: How do you make sure that the desire for the sort of the sort of the data and the decisions around the data doesn't obscure the kind of the really important top of the funnel stuff?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, and and I think again it comes down to that that balance.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't think that those two things compete, right?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So brand and performance marketing complement each other, um, and they should never be seen as competing.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think brand building brand building builds that credibility, that trust for perform performance marketing to come in and drive immediate results.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you almost have your strategic play and your tactical play working in tandem.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's easy to it's easy to kind of side on on one or the other because budgets are limited, but I think you you do need to make sure that you have the right balance and and yet something we're talking about all the time, even with within our paid media.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: How much do we do that brand play to to keep things at that level?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, how much do we go with a product messaging?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they need to be together because a brand on its own without a so what is hard.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then a product without a I don't know who you are, is is not right either.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So do you really need to?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's something I you know, we just had a meeting on it today where we're talking about what is the right balance, and we know we need both, but how do we do it?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's something we're always, always looking at.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Interested that obviously from a marketing approach, you're looking at that balance and the emphasis and making sure both are in the mix.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have to pedal quite hard to get the wider business to appreciate the role of both and the need for both?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it's about again like communicating really clearly around the benefits of both, why you would do something.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, back to our sophistication around measurement now, you're able to see the engagement and test different approaches.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So if you do have that brand message alongside a product message, showing that engagement next to either a pure brand or a pure product, you're allowed to, you're you're able to show maybe a skeptic or somebody who's not in the marketing every day, the value of doing them alongside each other.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I as I said to you, I always go there, I go to the data first to show what's making uh the difference because it does take the heat and the emotion out of the conversation, and it's hard to argue with data.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, and and and it's a gift.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't just become a battle of wills, does it?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And listen, you you've got to allow enough room for, I don't want to sound like a robot, you've got to allow enough room for creativity, innovation, trying new things.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: But you use the data to help you sh shape that on the learnings and what you what you take away from it.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: But interestingly, obviously, with the data that you have and the focus on data and that being such an important spine to using AI, like I'd love to talk a little bit about that because I know that you and your team and your leadership were really ahead in implementing it and thinking about it and putting it to work years ago.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I I would love to get a little flavor, I guess, as to sort of where you're seeing the most impact today, what's been trans transformed, I guess, already and become quite a sort of cultural norm.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think listen, we're all excited about AI.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a buzzword, it's definitely a buzzword in JP.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: We we talk about it, it's it's very present.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, I think we were early movers in this space, and there's a a strong expectation that everyone educates themselves, uses it, thinks about innovation.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that you know, that's from the top down, from Jamie onwards.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone is expected to find ways of doing something differently, or coming up with case studies, or challenging.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And they've built a really strong infrastructure internally for us to be able to do that and find out more, educate.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's courses, there's always somebody to ask, there's somebody to teach you new things.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's really impressive.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel very fortunate that you know I'm in a place that that does that.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I look at it as there's almost two ways to think about it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, AI from a just being smart in the way you work, but then AI as a marketer is like almost another exciting chapter because if I think about the ways that we're able to improve our client segmentation and the way we reach out and personalize things, if I think about the way that we can optimize our campaigns and constantly refresh and think about what's working and what's not, and turn on what's working in a different way and test new things, I get really excited because you know, Nirvana is getting to the right client with the right message at the right time.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And AI definitely facilitates that and creates the framework to be able to do that at scale.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, personally, an area that I'm the most excited about is the ability to build testing into our workflow in a meaningful way.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So looking at things like synthetic testing and what does that mean to campaign planning and what elements of time and cost can I be more effective and efficient with?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: It um it really, really excites me to think about the fact that I can have an idea, plug it into a system, do an A-B test, and get a result in the same day or the same hour based on some communities that I've built, based on, you know, common variables and factors that I know about our audience.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that is gonna transform marketing and the way we do things.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like just having that, again, back to data, data is the center of everything, but just having that constant data flow that a marketer can test, ask questions, engage, and have this interesting feedback loop on everything they're doing, I think is gonna be really, really impactful.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm in a place where I'm, you know, we're encouraged to ask those questions and understand more back to that sort of top-down embracing of AI.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it it's a, you know, they say about AI, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna replace your job.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna replace the people who don't embrace it.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, thinking about different ways that we can make sure that we're building it into our process and what does our workflow look like today, and what will it look like three years from now, asking yourself those important questions.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting listening to you speak and particularly those examples of how you're putting it to work within in the cross-it department, and to your point around how it can enable marketing.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: It just makes me think of like the the sort of phrase that so many masters have said for a few years is that we've been asked to do more with less every year when it comes to kind of the role, the reach of marketing, and yet the budget seems to be pretty frozen at best sometimes.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and the way that you're talking about it, actually, all that optimization, personalization, efficiency is allowing us to do more with less, and both in terms of our time and you know, goes back to how do we deploy budgets?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they're going to be much more effective, and we'll probably have more of it if it's not being used in these other areas.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um so really transformational.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm conscious of always asking this question, and maybe it's related to some of the things you're just saying, but we're asking everybody what does success in marketing in financial services look like to you?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, and it's it's interesting because yeah, there's different layers of success, but I think for me and for our for our team here, I think it's really centered around driving measurable outcomes and having a a prof not a like a significant impact on our core business.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Whether that's asset growth, deeper client relationships, stronger brand awareness.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's different measures you can use, but really just having that impact on the business and having what I call like a true seat at the table.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a side function.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's a seat at the table that contributes in the same way that various other groups contribute to our core business.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that's also about driving value for clients and making sure that that is sustained as well.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, no, I think very powerful.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I wonder whether, sorry, allowing you to sort of expound on that and maybe round out, you know, there's this also other element within that around if that's success for you know, marketing within the industry, how are individuals kind of forging their careers, you know, what tips do we have for them in order to sort of be on that journey, maybe?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I'll give you the last word in that, Arlene.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I think you know, it's a little bit of what we were almost talking about with AI, is you know, I think it's gonna be really important to keep challenging yourself and learning.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that sounds a bit cliche, you know, continuous learning, but I I genuinely feel like if you're not learning something new every day, you're doing something wrong.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: So what's the new product?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: What's the new landscape?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: How are clients absorbing information?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: What should we be planning for tomorrow?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: So just ensuring that you're you're on top of trends across the board.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: So client trends, uh, content trends, digital trends, product trends, regulatory trends, things that are gonna impact and shape your marketing approach.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, you have to stay on top of of the evolution of the industry, um, and you figure out the way that you're you're gonna do that best.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, something more general in terms of career is don't outsource your career to somebody else.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Don't sit and be complacent.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're in charge of it.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're gonna be the one who has to ask the questions and don't let information just come to you.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Go out and drive it and ask for it.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's important for for you to be in control.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the minute you sort of sit back and let things happen to you, you know, it it doesn't end well, I I don't think.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I think you've you've got to stay on top of things.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you can you can see when people are interested and engaged and challenging themselves, their ambitions take them further.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so that that would be the way I would phrase it.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: I stay curious and make sure that you're in charge of it.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's also really apparent, isn't it, when you're sort of sat around a table with people who are sort of challenging themselves, who have that growth mindset, who are kind of reaching for more information.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's sort of inspiring for everybody, and hopefully a really inspiring, uplifting, empowering message to sort of wrap us up on.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Arlene.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's been really good to talk to you as always, and um yeah, it's really great to hear so much of your expertise and priorities and perceptions of the market.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, thank you.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, thank you for having me.