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Childbirth Is Not a Medical Condition | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: My name is Jim. This is Germ Warfare, the Battle
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of Ideas.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: One of my favorite people in the world, Steve Fishbine,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: thank you for joining me in the Strangers.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: It's pretty kind of you to say that, Jeremy, It's
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: really really kind of you. I mean, we've no what
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: you mean. Well, thank you, I mean I can't wait
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: to meet you in person.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, well exactly. The feeling is mutual. And I say
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: that because, well, let me repeat the story. I've said
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: it before, but for those who are listening who might
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: not know the story, You've had a significant impact on
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: my personal life, and if you don't mind, I'm just going.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: To just quickly go through the story.
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: What do you think people?
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: But it was it was maybe, shall we say, two
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: years ago, two nine years ago. I can't even remember
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: exactly when it was, but anyway, we were we were
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: driving back from the Kruger National Park and my wife
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: was pregnant at the time. And so you have to
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: understand that she is in the medical field. So for
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: her to change her views is a lot harder for
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: somebody like me because she's she's she's stuck within that paradigm.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: And initially, when she fell pregnant. She was very petrified.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: This is going to be scary. You know, everything that
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Hollywood tells you is what you know. We thought we
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: didn't know any better until we started, you know, reading
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: or listening. Shall I say to the audio written by
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Katain Graves, who I think you might know or know of.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: And and this was on the on the road trip.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: And then we finished the book and she looked on
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: her phone for some podcasts about hypno birthing or just
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: home birthing or anything that went against the mainstream narrative,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: and she stumbled across this guy called doctor stew And
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: and she said, well, let's let's take a listen to this,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: and she randomly pulled up some podcasts of yours and
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: we started listening, and we kept on listening. We just
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: found them so appealing, and eventually it became apparent to
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: us that what we had previously thought was bunk. And
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: in the car, she said to me, you have to
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: get doctor stew onto your podcast. And that's exactly what happened.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: And you very kindly took up the offer. This was
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, and you kind of.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: In a in a in a very far away manner,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: were part of our journey because our journey was completely
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: different to what we had thought was going to be
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the journey, and it was so much better than anything
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: we had planned and students. So that's why you're one
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: of my favorite people in the world, because you personally
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: had a huge impact on the birth of my son,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: and now my wife's pregnant with another boy.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: No, I think that I'm honored by what you're saying,
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: and it is tragic, you know. I just got done
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: with an interview this morning with a woman from England
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: who deals with birth trauma and so many women, they
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: all love their babies, but many of them actually some
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: of them have no memory of the birth of their
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: babies because they were put out. But many women have
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: traumatic birth stories and it's so unnecessary and it does
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: affect your psychology when you had a traumatic experience. And
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: the fact that what you're saying you listening to me
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: and bliss and making the experience, no matter how it ended,
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: a better experience, so that it's a good memory for
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: you and your wife. That means everything to me because
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: we're not you know, the medical model of pregnancy care
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: is not doing well. And when you said something about
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: you listened to everything you've been told, I've been bunk
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: or something. I think that's what you said. It's actually
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: mostly true, mostly true. The mainstream narrative about birth, whether
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: it's normal pregnancy, whether it's twins, whether it's women over
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: thirty five, is bunk. It really isn't It isn't true,
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: and yet it is propagated over and over again as
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: the mainstream narrative. And what I'm trying to do and
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: many people like me are trying to get the word
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: out there because taking the joy and pleasure out of
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: this life changing experience, this thing that a woman's body
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: is designed to do, this birthright that she has, and
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: making it into this scary thing filled with fear and anxiety,
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: is we're not doing mankind a service. So if I
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: in any way made your life better, your family's life better,
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: there's nothing more that you could say that would honor me.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Well, it is exactly that you did a big role.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: And yes, the thing though, do you it's We were
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: on our way back from the Kruger National Park, which is,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: I always argue, one of the best game parks in
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: the world.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: And when we were there, she said to me in
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: the call.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Have you Have you ever wondered why these mammals don't
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: give birth an hospital. They find a white place behind
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: a tree or in a bush or somewhere, and they're
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: going to give birth. Why do we as humans go
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: to a loud, noisy hospital where there are loads of
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: people who are just poking and prodding and making everything
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: seem more scary.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: Do you want any you want? You want a simple
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: answer to that question.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, money, But you were there though, you were
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: in that in that space.
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah. But it's driven. It's driven.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Even in countries of socialized medicine, the system just builds
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: the government for what they do. So the more they do,
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: the more they make it. It's as simple as that.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: And it was done purpose purposefully. I don't know the
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: history of South African obstetrics, but it's probably mirrors what
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: happened in the United States, which was in one hundred
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: years ago, ninety five percent of women were born at home,
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: babies were born at home, and within thirty years, ninety
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: plus percent of women were born gay birth in the hospital.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: So what happened in those thirty years? Did birth suddenly collapse?
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: Was there a disaster? Was there a natural disaster that
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: caused people to have to go to No. There was
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: a propaganda campaign fueled by big pharma and big medicine,
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: and our country was fueled by the Rockefellers who owned
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: standard oil while the petroleum products make pharmaceutical products. They
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: put out a report called the Flexner Report, which people
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: can look it up and they can find out that
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: what that Flexner Report did was hilify all things that
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: came before, like natural apathy and midwiffree and homeopathy and
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: chiropractic and said that the only way to do medicine
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: was to do it through a medical cartel or a
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: medical organized control, and that they were going to do
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: it better. And it was essentially like anything else they
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: sold us. They sold us with COVID, they sold us
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: with anything, They sold us with SSRIs, they sold us
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: with statins for cholesterol. You know, they put on these
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: big things, and then twenty thirty years later they come
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: out and they realized that, you know, none of this
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: stuff made sense, but somebody made a lot of money
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: off of it, and once they get control of something
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: like that, they're not just going to let go. And
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: the reason I can say this bluntly is because First
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: of all, I've lived in both worlds, spent a lot
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: of time in the hospital.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: I was medically trained.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: I came out very medicalized, and then I ended up
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: evolving into a hospital home birth obstetrician working with midwives.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: But all you have to do, Jeremy, is look at outcomes.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: If any sane person who runs a business, if what
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: they're doing their sales are falling, they're going to revamp
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: their business. They're going to try to figure out what's wrong.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: If people are not coming to their restaurant anymore because
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: their sandwiches suck, they're going to try to make better sandwiches.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: But in business, that's not what happened. It happens they
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: try to quash the other sandwich shops. They don't try
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: to improve the necessarily prove their product. This is what's happened.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: They've not improved their product. They've created more of the
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: same thing that made it bad in the first place.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: More interventions, more testing, more labs, more monitoring, more inductions,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: more sinesarean sections, all those things without creating any improvement
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: in outcomes over the general population. Yes, everyone can look
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: at a single case now and then and say, listen,
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: if it wasn't for the hospital.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: I or my baby would have died.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: And that's one true, But all the damage they're doing
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: to the women that didn't need that sort of intervention
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: that ends up going from a C section rate in
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: your country fifty years before we talked about this last
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: time five percent, and now it's close. You said it's
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: closing in on eighty percent in your country.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's in the world.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: What is that doing to the babies, the moms, the
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: mom's future babies, the epigenetics, the ability of these young
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: babies being born to these moms of having babies themselves.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: No one cares because you can't really study it. It's messy,
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: it's it's nebulous.
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: All we care about is neonatal morbidity and neunomortality. And
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: even that isn't getting better. With a seven or eight
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: hundred percent increase in the caesarean section rate, your neonatal
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: mortality should get better.
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: It's not.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: But Stu, But Stu, isn't it about getting the baby out?
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: Well? To them?
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: It is, Yeah, but how a baby is born matters.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: And one of the things they don't consider is nature's design.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: As you were talking about being at the wild animal park,
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: you know, watching or you don't get to see them
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: because they're I but when a mammal prepares to give birth,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: she goes off to a quiet place by herself. No
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: one takes away her food and water, no one interrupts her.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: What they that's what they do. Babies have to navigate
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: the birth canal, and there's a system of that. There's
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: a communication going on all through pregnancy between the mother
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: and the baby. That communication is hormonal, it's electromagnetic. It's
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: things we don't understand. And then when labor, baby decides
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: labors it's time to come out. Something in the baby
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: or the placenta trigger's mom to go into labor. That's
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: still mysteriously understood. And I'm really thrilled that we don't
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: understand that, because pretty soon there'll be a pill. It
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: just says, take this pill and it'll trigger labor. I
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: mean they already try it with side attack and potocin
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: and folly balloons and all kinds of different things they
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: used to induce labor. But if they ever discover it,
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: they'll come up with a pill and they'll charge a
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: lot of money for that. And then every woman at
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: thirty eight weeks will start taking this pill to try
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: to go into labor because they'll be to believe that
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: if they go longer than that, their baby will die
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: in utero and all these scary things that they use
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: to manipulate people. But when a mammal does all those things,
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: the baby has to navigate that, so there's reflexes. The
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: baby is exposed to the stresses of labor, and it's
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: communicating with its mom that may help prepare it for
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: later in life and dealing with stress in life.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: The baby gets exposed to.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: Mother's bacteria and what we call the microbiome, and that
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: sets us up for our immune system. Eighty percent of
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: your immune system is based on gut bacteria, which you
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: acquire through the birth canal. When you're taken out through
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: an abdominal decision in a sterile field that's aldered. And
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: this is just a simple statement. It's always true every
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: time you met with nature's design, there will be downstream consequences.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: Rarely will they be good. Sometimes they'll be almost invisible.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: Sometimes they may take years to determine, but there will
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: be downstream consequences. Nature isn't stupid designed this system of
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: conceiving a baby, growing a baby in the hormonally, you
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: that we're in a woman's uterus, not a pregnant person's uterus.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: Okay, with all.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: The blood supply and all the hormones and all the
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: things that mother and baby are sharing to then grow
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: to a nine month's gestation. You know, it's a lot
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: shorter in hamsters. I don't know what it is. I
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: think elephants it's a year and a half. It's a
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: long time. It takes a long time to grow, make
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: it properly, make it proper But nature designed it that way,
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: and then when it's ready, then nature does its thing
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: to bring it out. And then the idea that we
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: need to immediately cut a cord, or that we need
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: to take a baby away from its mother. In nature,
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: by the way, cords often snap in nature, and the
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: babies don't bleed to death. But if the baby, if
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: the cord doesn't snap, nobody rushes in to cut the cord,
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: and nobody ever takes the baby away from the mother.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: Nature, you wouldn't do that.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: Yet, as you said earlier, everything that's done in the
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: hospital seems antithetical to that.
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: Why do we do that why.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Again, if a woman gives birth at home, how much
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: money does the hospital make if a baby doesn't go
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: to the nursery or the Nike you, how much money
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: does the hospital make?
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: People think that that's cynical.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: I don't think your audience will, because your audience is
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: already suspicious about life in general.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: But there's no money in not meddling.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: What was that documentary called Why Is Business Being Born? Yeah?
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: That's all right, we watch that.
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: I think it's Ricky like, yeah, the Business of being Born?
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: Ricky ANDBFT.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: It's actually a very good documentary.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: It's like fourteen years old now or whatever, and it's
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: still perfectly relevant. Nothing has changed for the better of anything.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: The things on there, they could add more to the
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: stupid stuff that they're doing. Right, people should watch it
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: so they understand. Do we think it's better? In my generation, Jeremy,
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: they did something called Twilight Sleep. May have heard of it,
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: maybe not, But what they did was when women got
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: to completely dilate it, they gas them, they put them out,
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: and they pulled babies out with forceps.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: So people like my.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Mom had no memory of my birth because she wasn't
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: awake when I was born the baby goes to the nursery.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: Maybe two hours later, I come back to my mom
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: wrapped up like a burrito. Okay, you know, not bonding,
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: not the laid cord clamping, not skin to skin, not
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: the hormonal connection that's going on between mom and baby,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: that flood of oxytocin that mom is putting out, that
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: she's seeing this off, the thing she just created, all
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: taken away in the idea that that was a good idea.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Somebody thought that that was a good idea.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: The arrogance of these people, the stupidity of these people,
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: knows no bounds. It makes me, you know, I'm at
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: the point now in my career where I'm angry with
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: the fact that these people are still not those people
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: in general, they're dead, but the people like them are
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: still in charge of this system.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: This is it's.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Insane that they continue to do more stuff, outcomes continue
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: to get worse, and they continue to get paid more
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: for what they're doing because they're doing more stuff, and
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: they continue to then fight against anyone who wants to
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: change the system. Like in my country, ninety eight plus
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: percent of babies are in the hospital. What is the
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: American hospital Association in the American College of obg wan
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: busy with They're busy with attacking the one percent of
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: women who are giving birth at home, trying to make
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: it harder for them to give birth at home.
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: Why.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: I think it's a competitive marketing thing. They see the
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: writing on the wall that they suck, and instead of
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: doing a mia kalpa, they want to squash the potential competition.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: You know, it's more complicated than that, But in the
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: time we have and stuff like that, that's basically it. We
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: live in a world where we're not doing well and
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: we could do so much better. I was fortunate enough
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: to see my career take a different path, and I
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: saw what's possible when collaboration between midwives who know normal,
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: healthy birthing better than obs do, and obs who know
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: problems better than maybe midwives do, work together and collaborate
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: and let the midwives take care of the low risk
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: women who don't have a problem, and let the doctors
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: take care of these things that they're trained to take
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: care of, which are problem birth. And instead of just
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: saying that what the medicalized birth model, the maternal field
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: medicine model is trying to do is they're trying to
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: label all pregnant women to be high risk, and if
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: everyone's high risk, then no one should be able to
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: have a midwife or be at home. And they've been
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: very successful at it because they have a big lobbying thing,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: and they have the ear of the politicians and in
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: the ear of the news media. And when my country,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know what your college is there, but in
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: my country, when a cock speaks, or when the American
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: Medical Association speaks, journalists just bend over and take it
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: and say, well, that must be true, when it couldn't
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: be further from the truth.
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: It's a mess.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: You actually put out a paper that we read back
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: in the day that come paid home births to hospital births,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: and they're on bar in terms of mortality.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: I didn't.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: I didn't put out a paper comparing the two. That
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: wasn't That was not me. I might have promoted one.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: There are there are many great studies out there that
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: look at the difference between home birth and hospital birth
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: for women who are considered low risk, and every single
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: one of them finds that the home birth the outcomes
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: in pretty much everything from emotional trauma to physical trauma
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: to valsual delivery rate, to shorter labors, to to less
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: babies going to the intensecure unit, to less blood loss.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: The home births were better than the hospital births. Yeah,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: those those articles are are ignored. I've published papers on
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: the success rate of home birthing for things that may
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: not be considered low risk by the standard medical community,
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: such as breaches and twins, and I put out the
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: fact that, again, I believe that the medicalized birth model,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: run by maternal fetal medicine doctors mostly handles breaches and
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: twins all wrong.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: And they would you know, ninety.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: Eight percent of breaches are done by sea section, seventy
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: five percent of twins are done by sea section. We
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: had a section rate with twins of eight point seven percent,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: and we had a section rate of zero percent from
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: multiparous women with a breach baby and about sixteen percent
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: with first time moms with a breach baby. Yet in
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: the hospital model, ninety eight percent of them we'll get
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: a sea section. In our model, sixteen percent got a
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: sea section. And I'm the outlier. I'm the one that
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: needs to be shut up. That's the kind of thing
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: that again, it's it's classic cognitive dissonance remediation. They it's
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: too hard for them to look and see that the
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: system that they're involved with is not working. So rather
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: than say, you know, we failed, they basically call us crazy.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Or they they cherry pick the data that supports their
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: position and ignore the data that doesn't, or they they
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: blame the system. I'd love to help a woman with
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: a breach baby, but my partners or my hospital system
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: won't let me.
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: So, God, where's your courage? Yeah?
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: You know it's the rarest of traits, courage, and and
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: most OB's don't have it. And by the way, the
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: way the way they're taught now, I know I'm going
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: off on a tangent, which you like when I do this,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: but uh, the way the way they're taught now is
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: to be sheep, not shepherd. Who teaches OBEs in residency programs,
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: whether the high risk maternal fetal medicine specialists who benefits
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: when an OB doesn't know how to take care of
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: something high risk, the maternal fetal medicine specialist does. They're
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: creating more jobs. You know, it's it's it's a it's
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: a simple I know my mind is gets gets ahead
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: of myself. But imagine if a fireman got paid by
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: each fire they put out, how many firemen would kind
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: of think about maybe starting some fires. How many firemen
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: would become arsonists if you got paid. You know, hey, honey,
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: we need to buy that new car. Let's go burn
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: down mister Johnson's barn. Okay, why wouldn't they do that?
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: What's going to hold them back? Ethics? Morals, Well, we're
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: supposed to we have. If people were to read the
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: guidelines on medical ethics, they would find that every day,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: in every doctor's office, in every hospital, they violate them constantly.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: So they don't mean anything.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: These things are all words without meaning, and they're used
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: to manipulate us and funnel us down a path that
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: that system wants us to take. It's very depressing news
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: for people who just want to trust their medical community
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: and trust their doctor. But I'm telling you you can't
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: because your doctor. If your doctor's either complicit or he's
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: just a hamster in a wheel.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: But the problem Stu.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, we've got close friends who are pregnant and
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: she's petrified yep of birth. In actual fact, she has
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: an electivecy section. She's already got the date. That's not
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: supposed to be like that.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: No, No, it's not your country. Your country has really
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: done a number on it's women. You can't have an
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: eighty percent CE section rate and not convince women that
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: it's safer. So they've they've, they've they've done a great
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: job with propaganda and gaslighting to the point where a
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: woman doesn't enjoy her pregnancy and what is that doing
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: to her?
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: But she's actually scared, right, No, she's.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So what is that doing to her? What is
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: that doing to her ability to be a good mother?
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: What is that doing to the biochemistry that's going on
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: in her body? What is that doing to the epigenetics
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: of the fetus that's developing inside of her? Nobody cares?
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: Nobody cares, I do you do? But the medical system
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: doesn't care. They don't care what happens to that baby
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: a year down the road, or twenty years old or
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: thirty years older, if the baby's dysfunctional or has ADHD,
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: or or what's its bed or can't relate to people,
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: doesn't make eye contact as mildly odds that they don't care.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: There's no paper that looks downstream at these models and says,
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: you know, our kids were a lot healthier when we
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: have a c secuarate of five percent than when we
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: have a c secxuary of eighty percent. Our society was healthier,
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: our moms were healthier. Because you know, they always blame
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: it out. It's too it's too muddled. There's too many factors,
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: too many factors. You can't really you can't isolate. This
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: is one thing. Well, I can just go back to
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: the thing when nature designed us as them to work
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: a certain way, and we and only the hubris of
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: man in the last one hundred years has decided that
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: he know he or she knows better, and.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: We get what we deserve. We're going to end up
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: where we end up.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: But just for balance, though, you're not saying that there's
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: no there's no need for the hospital.
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: No, of course, not hospitals.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: But hospitals can't survive if they only took care of
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: the fifteen or twenty percent of women who need them.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: They need the revenue that comes in from all the
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: all the normal people who who they treat as abnormal.
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: No, we need hospitals.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: Listen, you don't need a hospital if you cut yourself
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: on a fence, right, But if you get an infection
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: in the cut, or if you hit an artery then yeah,
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: then you need an urgent care or a hospital. So
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: we need we need hospitals, but nobody would go to
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: the You know, drawing baby is like I've said this
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: to you last time. I think it's like breathing or digestion.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: It's the normal function of the body. You don't have
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: to think about it. Conception occurs whether you think about
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: it or not. Growing a baby grows. It grows whether
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: you think about it. Not. Going to labor will happen
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: if you let it, whether you think about it or not.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: If the fact, the more you think about it, the
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: more likely are to delay labor because your cortical brain
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: takes over your primitive bodily functions. It's very similar to
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: breathing or digestion. Fortunately, we can go through our day
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: and not think once about breathing. But think of my
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: imagine if you had to remember to breathe every four seconds.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, that would be crazy. But your higher mind
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: can screw up your breathing. Why do people hyperventilate? Hyperventilate
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: because they're nervous. You've got to go to court, they've
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: got to give a speech. Why do people get diarrhea?
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, sometimes it's patholopathology, but a lot of times
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: it's by the fact that you've got to go to
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: court or you know, you've got to give a speech,
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: and so you get upsets someone that's your cortical brains
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: strewing up your bodies normally functions. When a woman starts
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: to get fearful about her pregnancy, it's far more likely
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: to become a self fulfilling prophecy that you're going to
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: end up with a problem. And if I was if
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: I was a fireman who wanted to make more money
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: per fire, I'd start fires. If I was a maternal
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: fetal medicine doctor who makes more money off of doing
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: more scans and more consults, why would I not want
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: women to be scared? I mean, the only thing that's
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: keeping them from that would be ethics. And I'm telling
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: you that we've been fooled to believe that medical ethics
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: is actually not an oxymoron. So hospitals aren't So hospitals
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: aren't necessary for the women that need that have a problem,
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: and they do great work when there's trauma. You know,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: there's no better place to be if you have a
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: car accident or a heart attack than going to a hospital,
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: but going there for something as normal as having a baby.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: H yeah, exactly.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: And something that you said a number of years ago
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: is that giving birth is not a medical condition. That
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: completely rewired my thinking.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: You're right.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's a normally bottle, it's a normal bodily function.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: It's it's like any other bodily function I just mentioned.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: It's not a medical gission. Giving birth is the only
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: thing women go to the hospital for that isn't a disease.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: I'm also bound on this kick lately about how hospitals
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: are designed. Think about this for a second. When you
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: go to the hospital pregnant or in labor, what's the
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: first thing they do. They make you go to the bathroom,
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: pee in a cup, put on a hospital gown, and
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: then you come back to the room and what do
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: you do.
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: You get into bed, and.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: Then they draw your blood, and then they start an
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: ivy and then they have your sign consent forms not
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: necessarily in that order, and then they put the belts
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: on you and you're laboring and you're in bed. Now,
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: think about it for a second. Why is the bed
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: the center of the labor room. Well, it's a hospital.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: Hospitals are designed by architects. Architects go to architectural school
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: to learn how to design hospitals.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: What do hospitals start? What do they do?
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: They're supposed to take care of sick people? Where do
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: sick people go in bed? So what are we going
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: to design? Every room in the hospital? Every patient room
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: in the hospital is going to designed to have a
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: bed in it, and the bed's going to be in
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: the center of the room, and there are going to
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: be lights that focus on the bed, and there's going
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: to be machines that go beat on each side of
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: the bed, and that's how it's designed. But text don't
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: know anything about a woman laboring. Hospital administrators don't care
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: about how a woman labors. How does a woman normally labor?
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: How does any mammal normally labor? They do they lay
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: in bed. When you go to a home birth. When
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: you when you go to in the wild, of course
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: they don't have bed. So let's just stick to homebirth.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: When you go to a home birth, I can just
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: tell you because I've been to many, and most of
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: my medical colleagues had never been to one. You'll almost
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: never find the woman in bed. She'll be up, she'll
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: be pacing, she'll be in the shower, she'll be getting
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: her hip squeezed, she'll be getting ribosoed, she'll be getting
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: she might be leaning on the bed, but she's not
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: just laying in bed.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: In the bed, isn't that? What's that in the bath? Perhaps?
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, in water, that sort of thing. Yes, that's where
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: she's going to be. So why do the hospitals design
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: labor rooms to have the bed in the center of
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: the room because their mindset is that you're sick and
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: that when you come into the hospital they put you
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: in a hospital gown. What does the hospital gown signify
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: you're a patient? Patients are sick. Why does a woman
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: need to wear a hospital gown when she's in labor.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: Why can't she wear nothing or why can't she wear
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: her own jammies. She can wear whatever she wants, whatever
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: she's comfortable in, they put them in a hospital gown. Again,
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: many money women are starting to maybe not your country.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: They're starting to pull back from this, saying no, I
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: don't want that, I don't need that, I don't need
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: an IV right now.
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: Well, what happens if you start bleeding.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: And then you say, well, if I came in with
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: a gunshot wound or a severed artery in a car accident,
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: you get an IV in me and you transfuse me
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: with own negative blood. It's not like I go out
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: to dinner every night put an IV in before I
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: leave my house just in case. They say, well, it's
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: more likely you might need something. Yeah, well it's more
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: likely because of the way you treat me in the hospital.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Plus you can't bill me for an IV if I
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: don't have one. Think about this for a second. They
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: draw blood on you. Do we drop blood on people
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: when we go to a home birth?
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: Nope?
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: Do we start an IV when we go to home
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: birth automatically nope? Do we interrupt them, Do we make
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: them sign consent forms?
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: Nope? Do we make them pee in a cup? Nope?
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: And yet somehow those mothers and babies generally do great
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: and they all live for the most part.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I told you.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: I never told you, but when my wife was pregnant
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: the previous time, we went to hypno birthing classes. Now
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: that the word, I think is quite unfortunate because it
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: makes it sound very weird and weird and everything, but
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: it really isn't And if anybody's interested, I think hypno
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: birthing is a really, really, really good concept. It's just
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: basically about getting your mind in the right place, that's all.
• 32:57
  Speaker 5: And the main body, by the way, and body getting
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: your mind and body you want, you really want to
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: get your body in tune with your with your pregnancy.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: Having you know, the mind controls the body, And one
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: of the hardest things for most of us who live
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: in this society right now is to shut our minds
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: down and let our bodily, our body just be and
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: trust our body to do our thing without too much thinking.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Your friend who's actually fearful of birth, this is very
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: detrimental to her.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: It'll be more painful as a result.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: She'll probably just get an epidural. You know she won't.
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: She'll just get it the.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: Final and have a C section and and the recovery
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: will be slower. But it's kind of like, you know,
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: you plant these seeds in women and it really benefits
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: the system. Who benefits, by the way, from all those
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: interventions I talked about when you show up at the hospital,
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: and who benefits from women being frightened about birth? Not
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: the family. The system benefits because they can you're compliant.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: Now they'll do what you'll do what they want it.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: It's like in the movie Inception. I don't know if
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: it made it to it's really one of my favorite movies.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: There's a scene where they talk about planting this idea
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: into the silly and Murphy's head is the actor, and
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: they say, why can't we just suggest it to him?
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: And he said, because then he'll know where it came from.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: And they go, what do you mean and he says, well, okay,
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: don't think about elephants. Everybody's thinking about elephants. So when
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: you say to woman, no, you're over thirty five, pregnancy
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: is scary.
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: We need you know, we need to monitor this.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: You've just basically planted seeds in there that are almost
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: impossible to remove. And do my colleagues who do this
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: kind of thing, who do these kind of this kind
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: of counseling with that you want to call it that,
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: do they know what they're doing? Do they understand what
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: they're doing to destroy this beautiful event for that woman?
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: And do they care?
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: And by their actions, the answer is pretty obvious that
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: either they don't know what they're doing and don't care,
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: which is bad, or they know what they're doing and
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: don't care, which is even worse. So the answer is
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: these people, unfortunately, are not to be trusted with every
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: pregnant woman's care. Women should go there to doctors and
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: maternal fetal medicine specialists when there is a true problem,
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: and the best people to decide that are the experts
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: in normal birthing, which are generally midwives who are traditionally trained.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: One of the things the other thing that the medical
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: community is doing now is they're trying to medicalize midwiffree.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: They're trying to take over the term midwiffree. Like in
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: places like in some states, a woman who's not licensed
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: by the state cannot use the word midwife to describe herself. Now,
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: since when did governments get to take over the language
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: and decide who can be called a midwife and who can't.
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: So they come up with new titles. Now they just
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: call traditional birth companion her traditional birth attendant. But they
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: just can't use the word And that's crazy because it's
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: just language. You're just manipulating language. You're not you're not
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: fixing the problem.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I was saying you. So this woman
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: who was who was giving us the classes and hypno
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: birth things, she was telling us.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: When she gave birth her first child, it was in
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: the hospital. She says it was a traumatic experience. She
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: hated it. Her second child, she decided to do at home.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: So she got to midwife to the house, and the
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: midwife was in the lounge talking to her husband, and
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: she was sitting on the toilet because that was the
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: best place to be for that for that motion. And
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: then she stood up and held the door and actually
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: just gave birth right there in the bathroom while the
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: midwife was talking to the husband. And then she said,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: forty five minutes later, she was in the kitchen making
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: a chicken curry.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: What you're describing is the normal experience at a home birth.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: There's always things that can go wrong, which is why
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: I respect a woman's right to free birth. And when
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: the choice is limited between free birthing or going to
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: the hospital, and that tyranny that's there. I understand why
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: women choose free birth, but the insanity of a government
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: is to say, well, a woman can be a birth
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: at home, but if anyone who's qualified to help her comes.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: That's a crime.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: And there are many states in my country and probably
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: countries in the world.
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: That do that.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: I know that they like Armenia, outlaws home birth. If
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: a woman gives birth at home, I don't think she
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: goes to jail. But if somebody comes to help her,
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: that person is committing a crime. Now that's crazy. By
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: the way, your grandmother or your neighbor can help you
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: have a baby, but a midwife who's trained can't in
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: these countries or these states. Why do we give any
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: power to people who make decisions like that? Who are
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: these people? You know they're taking They don't know anything.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: Most politicians know nothing about this. They just they just
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: do what the lobbyists or what their benefactors tell them
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: to do. And who is the benefactors. They're the big
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: medical organizations, the hospital associations, the medical organizations, the obstetric organizations.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: They're the ones with the money. They're the ones at
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: lobby And some guy who's a lawyer who happens to
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: be a a legislator in your Congress, he doesn't know
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: anything about birth, so he's going to do with these
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: experts tell him. But these people are not experts because
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: to me, an expert is somebody who consistently is correct,
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: who improves outcomes, that sort of thing. These people are
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: consistently incorrect and they're not improving outcomes, and yet because
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: they have letters behind their name, they're considered experts. Okay,
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: I have the same letters behind my name and I
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: think completely differently than them. Why am I not an
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: expert because I think differently? Yes, I would be labeled
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: a crazy person, because that's how you dismiss people with
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: ideas as opposed to debating them or engaging them in conversation.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: You don't ever see this sort of debate going on.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: I think we've talked about this before. Wouldn't it have
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: been nice during COVID for the leaders of your country
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: to get people who were pro vaccine, pro lockdown on
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: stage on television with people who thought that lockdowns were
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: not a good idea, bad for kids, that some people
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: don't need the vaccine, that ivermectin might be a good
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: choice as opposed to hospitalization, remdesevir, intubation and death, and
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: have them debate. But you never see the so called
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: experts have a conversation with people who disagree with them.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: They're too uncomfortable. I have a saying that that says,
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: not my skepticism that should bother you. It's their certainty.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: And people who are confident in their position, like me,
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: admit we don't know stuff. People who are insecure will
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: act like they know everything, and they'll they'll if you
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: ask them something outside of their comfort zone, they'll roll
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: their eyes, or they'll ridicule you, or they'll say, you know,
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: home birth, home deliveries for pizza, or or you wouldn't
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: want your baby to die, would you?
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: Or you know?
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: But there you go.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: But that also, I mean that feeds into the vaccine thing.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: So as you know, our child and our next child
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: won't be vaxab, well they're not vaccinated. And but the
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: other subtle one is the vitamin K one. Many people
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: don't know about vitamin K. We also have avoided vitamin K.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: This is something that goes under the radar.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a big pushback now from the pharmaceutical companies
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: and the press about calling people who don't who talk
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: about why vitamin K may not be necessary as being
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: bringers of misinformation and the terum. Misinformation is a funny
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: term because there is no such term misinformation is information
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: that those people who don't who just don't like the
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: information you're giving, because if it's true, it still could
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: be misinformation according to them, And if it's not true,
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: then it's a lie.
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: So call it a lie.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: Say that not giving vitamin K is a reasonable choice,
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: Say well, that's a lie. Don't call it misinformation because
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: it's not misinformation. But there's been a pushback because people
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: are beginning to understand that this thing called laid onset
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: vitamin K efficiency bleeding, which is a serious thing that happens,
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: happens between one and ten thousand and one and sixteen
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: thousand children who don't get vitamin K. But that means
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: that there's fifteen nine hundred and ninety nine children who
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: don't have don't get this bad outcome, and they don't
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: have high vitamin K either. Children are born without Babies
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: are born without vitamin without high vitamin K. Now, again,
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: if you trust nature's design, you have to ask yourself
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: a question. If vitamin K is so important for babies
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: to have that we need to give injections to sixteen
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: thousand babies to prevent one case of this deficiency, why
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: didn't nature make vitamin K across the placenta and give
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: babies vitamin K when they're born, because maybe there's a
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: reason it's not supposed to be there. But that's not
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: how it works, because again it gets down to money.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: How much money do you make and not giving sixteen
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: thousand babies vitamin K.
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: Zero?
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: How much money do you make if you give sixteen
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: thousand babies vitamin K of which fifteen nine hundred and
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: ninety nine didn't need it, And it might even be
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: detrimental to them because it's changing nature's design. And remember
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: what I said earlier, every time you change nature's design,
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: there will be ripples downstream.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: But sorry, Stue, let me jumping quickly correctly if I'm wrong.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: But isn't the reason for the vitamin K injection is
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: because of the deficiency that occurs due to cutting the
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: cord too quickly.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: No, I don't think it's due to that.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: I think that that's kind into shorth to quickly deprives
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: the baby of its blood, it's iron, its stem cells,
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: many other other things that the oxygen exchange is going
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: on while the baby is transitioning into this new world
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: where it's now using its lungs that never used them
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: before and all that. It does a lot of things.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: But I don't I don't know that that early cord
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: cutting has affects the incidence of vitamin kate efficiency bleeding.
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: I don't think it does.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, isn't it because.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Waiting allows more blood to go into the baby, and
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: therefore it helps to thicken the blood naturally.
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't know that. It's again, this is an
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: interesting thing.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: More blood's going into the baby, But the blood everywhere
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: in that baby, in that cord, and in that placenta,
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: has the same thickness.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's all.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: It's like it's your hemoglobe and it's your hematocrit. So
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: the hemoglobin inside the placenta blood isn't any different than
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: the hemoglobin inside the baby. Some of the blood as
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: the baby comes through the vagina, or even if it's
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: yanked out through the skin at a sea section.
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: Is going to be squeezed out of the baby.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: Backwards into the placenta, and so it takes time for
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: that to equilibraid. Now powers that be have decided that
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: sixty seconds of lad cord clamping is reasonable. Well that's something,
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: But I can tell you that sixty seconds is a
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: made up number, because if it's sixty seconds, why not
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: seventy seconds, why not two minutes, why not three minutes?
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: And it's because they don't want to wait, They want
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: to move on to the next task, so they decide
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: to sea say, oh, the baby will get too much blood,
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: and then it'll be it'll be it'll be the blood
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: will be too thick. Well, that doesn't really make a
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: whole lot of sense. Again, I understand the complex thinking
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: that's going on there, and sometimes I applaud that, but
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: sometimes I think we think too much. It's the baby's blood.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: It belongs in the baby, and what stays in the
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: placenta stays in the placenta, and what goes into the
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: baby goes into the baby, and just let it equilibrate,
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: because that's nature's design. Again, in no other mammal does
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: anyone come in and cut the cord. And again I
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: know that sometimes it's severs. It's like an elephant falls
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: to the ground that bilical cord is gone. Okay, so
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: that baby doesn't get the advantage of delayed cord clamping.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: But that's nature's design for humans. That's not how it
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: was designed for chimpanzees and orangutangs and stuff. Nobody rushes
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: in to cut the umbilical cord. Why would they do that.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: The only reason that it was done here was for expediency,
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: is to get that baby over to the warmer, which
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: again completely unnecessary, so that the nurses can do their
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: thing over at the warmer. They can rub the baby down,
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: they can hyper stimulate the baby, which is not necessary.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: If you've ever been to a home birth and you
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: leave a baby alone, you can tell rather quickly whether
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: that baby's going to need a little bit of help
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: or not.
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: By giving it some time.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: And if you delay the cord clamping, that blood is
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: coming back into that baby. That baby's volume is increasing.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: It's going to help with s lungs expand, it's going
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: to help push fluid out of the lungs. It's going
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: to do all the things that nature designed it to do.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: When you intervene, you've just changed everything. So you have
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: to ask yourself the question, why are all these intelligent
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: experts intervening all the time. What is it that they're doing,
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: And if they're intervening is so important, how come our
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: outcomes aren't getting better.
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: It's not complicated. It's that simple.
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: Whenever you do an intervention, Jeremy, you should damn sure
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: that the intervention is safe before you do it. And
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: the problem with our history of obstetrics and medicine in
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: general is that hasn't been the case. We put things
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: out there long before we know if they're safe or not.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: We've done it, you know, for over one hundred years.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: They used to put mercury in baby's teething powder. That
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: doesn't seem very smart to it. Yeah, yeah, well they did.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: And then they did X rays on women in labor
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: to see if their pelvis were big enough, and they
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: found that that was causing cancer, so they stopped doing that.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: According to Mars and Wagner in that documentary you talked
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: about business of being born, and then they gave some babies.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: Moms were had too much nausea and hyperameesis, throwing up,
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: and they gave them a drug called for lidamide. The
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: littamide could caused limb reduction defects, and then women were
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: having miscarriages, so they gave him another drug called diethel stilbesterol,
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: which caused mularian abnormalities, which is the uterus and tubes
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: and vagina in the fetuses inside the female fetuses, and
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: who knows what it did to the male fetuses, but
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: the female fetuses had problems. Shouldn't they have known this
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: ahead of time. Then they bring in continuous fetal monitoring,
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: saying it's going to prevent siruble palsy into partum death.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: Over fifty years of use, it hasn't done either of those.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: All it's done is create more c sections, more interventions.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: It hasn't improved outcomes at all. That's what they said
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: it was going to do. They don't know what using
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: side atteck or using oxytocin or excuse me, potocin synthetic.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: I think it's sintosin in South Africa. I don't don't.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: They've never really studied long term what that's. What that
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: does to the mother and baby bonding. It saturates the
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: oxytocin receptors, moms own oxytocin is no longer reaching the
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: organs that it might need to reach, like the breasts,
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: like the babies oxytocin receptor. You know, there's there's there's
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: women like Sarah Buckley who study this, and you know,
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: they come out with some really bright things and we
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: don't always agree on everything, but nonetheless we all agree
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: that when you meddle with mother nature, you better be
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: damn sure that the meddling is going to do good.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: And there are some things in life that you know,
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: we meddle with mother nature, like air conditioning. It's nice
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: having air conditioning. Wasn't nature's design? Man designed air conditioning.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: Now are there downsized air conditioning? Yeah, sometimes you get
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: legion aerious disease through the air conditioning system. There can
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: be problems, but nonetheless, you know, there are benefits to
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: certain interventions and there are risks. But some of the
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: interventions that we've done in obstetrics there's been no benefit
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: from and they keep doing them and they keep coming
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: up with new ones. And that is classically Einstein's definition
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: of insanity. I have to tell you that the people
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: that are running my profession are bordering on being crazy.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: They call me crazy, But I think I told you this.
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: You love getting me going, don't you.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: When we met up with a doctor just as a backup,
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: because I think you know the story. My wife decided
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: to go for home birth.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: It wasn't successful, and I remember contacting you and saying
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: it was a failure, and you said, no, it was
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: not a failure. But she tried home birth for about
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: four hours, and the midwife got a bit nervous by
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: the heartbeat that was dropping down to eight, which she
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: said was just a bit too low for her liking.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: And she said, let's let's get hold of the doctor
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: who was on standby, and and so that's what we did.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: And but when we when we chatted with him after
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: everything a few days later, whatever, he said, the reason
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: why he talks so much about sea sections is because
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: of lawsuits.
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to just talk about the failure thing
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: first because I think it's important.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: The reason I said that is because we need to
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: we need to change the narrative of how women feel
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: about their bodies. And your wife did everything right, and
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: sometimes even doing everything right, there's a reason that to intervene.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: So it's you know, it's not the term failure is
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: just way too harsh and if you think you failed,
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: then that's going to haunt you for a long time,
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: if not the rest of your life.
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: So it's really important.
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: And it's not just word salad to come up with
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: saying other terms besides failure. But it's not a word
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: that we'd like to we like to see used because
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: you want to, you want to reaffirm to her all
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: the things she did right, Like she conceived a baby,
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: she grew a baby, baby was doing great inside of
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: her for nine months. She took care of herself and
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: in turn that takes care of her baby. Those are
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: all successes, Those are all things to be commended.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Any got vaccinated and she didn't.
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and she didn't succumb to the all that pressure
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: to do that. She did all those things right. And still,
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: despite doing all those things right, some outcomes aren't optimal
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: in the way we want them to be.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: But it's not a failure.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: That's why the term we don't like, the term failure
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: to progress is a reason a lot of women go
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: to cesarean section because they're not dilating fast enough. Well,
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: who decides what fast enough is?
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: Well? Mankind decided that, well, that's not you know, I
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: guess I have to talk about this. Okay.
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: There's something called a labor curve and it's called the
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: Freedman curve, and everybody knows and EB Centrics knows what
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: it is. Midwives through two and it's a labor curve,
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: and it basically says that a woman is having her
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: first baby should dilate at one or one and a
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: half centimeters per hour once she reaches it beyond four centimeters.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: They might have changed that to six now, but they
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: should dilate at a certain rate. Well, think about basic
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: geometry and how do you get a curve. The curve
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: is the median of a bunch of samples. So you
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: have some people that are laboring slow, some people are
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: laboring fast, some people laboring medium. All those scattered points
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: to calculate a curve, and the curve runs right up
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: the middle. But now the curve is now being used
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: as the standard of labor speed. But it's the middle,
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: which means fifty percent of women are naturally labeling slower
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: than that. But using the labor curve means that all
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: the fifty percent of women are laboring too slow. Does
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: anybody think that's logical that that fifty percent of women
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: labor too slow?
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: No, of course not.
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: So the curve was misused, but it wasn't misused by accident.
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: It was misused on purpose so that they could speed
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: up labor and they could artificially induce or augment labor. Again,
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: maybe somebody at the beginning thought they were doing good,
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: but they had to understand that after watching it for
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: a while. We're not doing good, but we are generating
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: more revenue because we're using more drugs, more ivs, more nursing.
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: Women are ending up with vacuums or forceps or sea sections.
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: Charge for that. Babies end up going to the NIKEU.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: We can charge for that. Moms stay in the hospital
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: for longer, we can charge for That's it's not it's
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: not that complicated, Okay, And then you got into the
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: legal aspect of things, and that is a problem. That's
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: definitely a problem. I mean, rarely do people get sued
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: for wrongful cesarean section. Rarely do people get sued for
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: altering a baby's microbiome so that by age two that
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: baby has ezema and ear infections. And theoretically you could
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: trace it all back to the fact that she had
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: a scheduled sea section as opposed to a long labor
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: and a vagil delivery, or even a long labor and
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: a cesarean, which is better for the baby because the
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: baby got exposed to some of the stresses of labor,
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: some of the reflexes needed for labor and ended up
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: with necessarean, but still got exposed to mom's bacteria for
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: a while with the the you know, as she dilated,
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: that sort of thing, But they don't get sued for that.
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: This gets back to my whole thing about the live
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: baby in the basinet theory, and all that matters to
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: the medical model is that and how the baby got there,
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: and how the mom did, and how the baby does
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: and how the mom's future baby does is not the
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: concern of the medical system. Their concern is revenue generation
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: and avoiding liability. And if I was running a hospital,
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: that would be my mantra. My mantra would be that
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: my job is not to give the woman the best
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: experience possible. My job is to make hospital money and
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: prevent us from getting sued. And having a wonderful birth
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: experience and a valsal delivery is not the same thing
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: as generating revenue and not getting sued. So their fiduciary
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: duty is not the same as the family or the
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: practitioner who's supposed to have the fiduciary duty to.
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: Take care of that woman.
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: But now because most doctors are now employed by the hospital,
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: they're in a they have a huge conflict of interest
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: because the hospital wants to avoid getting sued and wants
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: to expedite things and wants to renuerate revenue, and the
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: doctor has an obligation to do what the patient wants.
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: You may not want to do some of the things
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: the hospital wants them to do, but if a doctor
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: doesn't do what the hospital wants, the doctor's fearful that
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: you might get fired. So you've got the legal, legal pressures,
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: the job pressures. All those are antithetical to giving the
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: woman what she wants.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: But that's what he said to us.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: He said, look, it's protocol, because if something goes wrong,
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: then they'll come back and say, well, did you not
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: follow these steps?
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: Yep, yeah, the term policy or protocol.
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: People have to remember that policies are not laws, and
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: you are not bound by them as a patient. If
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: you're an employee of the hospital, you might be bound
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: by them in one sense, but your ethical obligation might
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: be in conflict with that. That's hard to deal with.
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: But that is a defense that they will use. But
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: that assumes that all women are the same, that all
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: women want the same thing, that all labors are the same,
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: we have a protocol. We have an algorithm, and you
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: have to follow the algorithm. And if you follow the
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: algorithm and something bad happens, we feel like we're okay.
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: But the experience matters too. It's like it's like the
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: whole thing. It's not just the destination, it's the journey too.
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: It's all backwards, Jeremy. It's just it's just the people
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: running the system have run it into the ground. I
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: don't think you could do worse. By the way, I'm
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: not saying this as an experiment. I'm just saying that
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: if you took a thousand women in South Africa and
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: had them have medical care through the African ep centrical system,
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: and he took a thousand women and told him to
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: birth at home with no medical care at all, who
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: would have better outcomes?
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: Well, I would argue the ones who birthed at home. However,
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: they're probably going to choose the hospital because no, No.
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: My point is is that it would be very interesting
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: to find out. Yes, some women who had birth at
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: home might have a very bad outcome they might have
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: avoided if they had been in the hospital, But how
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: many women birth in the hospital if they would have
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: stayed home would have had a better outcome. And I
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: can tell you that when you have an eighty percent
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: sea section rate and you have a fan, and you
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: have a woman who wants five kids and now she's
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: got to deal with a VBAC issue, or maybe you
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: have a second sea section and then a third sea
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: section and then a fourth sea section. You know, every
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: time you have a sea section, you increase the risk
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: of that mother and that mother's future babies from uterin rupture,
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: from placenta kreta, which is you know, what's called abnormal placentation,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: from other problems that can occur. So cesarean section is
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: actually just deferring risk. You could argue theoretically that if
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: a woman wants only one baby, that a sea section
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: might be safer, but it is altering the baby's microbiome,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: it is altering the baby's epigenetics. And again, because that's
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: not measurable, nobody talks about it. People don't get informed,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: They don't give informed consent when you go to the
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: hospital to the doctor because they don't have enough information
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: to give true informed consent. So when the doctor only
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: feeds in the information like breach is dangerous, sea section
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: is safe. Well, okay, fine, but what's the downsides of
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: sea section? What's the benefits of vaginal breach delivery? Oh,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: we're not to talk about those. We don't offer breach
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: delivery anyway. You know, you have to have a sea section.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: It's fine, it's safe. I've done them for twenty years
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: and never had problem. That's not giving honest and unbiased,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: unskewed information, which is what our ethical with our with
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: our with our organizations in their ethical guidelines say we
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: must do, and they don't.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're just thinking now.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: I'm just thinking now it's too if I if I
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: think of our ten closest female friends who have all
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: had kids, I don't think any of them had natural birth.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think any I think.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: I think we've talked about this.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: And I can tell you that I know probably ten
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: women I could just pick out who've had beautiful homebers,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: just because of my my life experience. But I would
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: tell you most of my ob colleagues don't see anything
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: wrong with what they're doing because they'd never looked elsewhere.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: I become a home birth advocate, But you know that
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: for the first twenty four years of my career, I
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: supported Midwiffrey as a hospital based optetrician who took their
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: transports from home, most of which were non emergent. They
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: were just women who were tired and an epidural helped them,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: and then maybe some potocin and maybe a vacuum, and
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: they all ended up with vagual deliveries. Every now and
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: then there was a true emergency that came in. But
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: I'd been backing midwives for twenty four years before I
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: started to switch to home birthing, and I have to say,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: actually twenty eight years, excuse me, and I have to
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: say that when I decided that I didn't decide, I
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: was kind of forced to leave the hospital. They weren't
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: going to renew my privileges, which is their right to
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: do that, but it was really a nasty reasoning. They
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: just didn't like what I was doing. I made the
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: staff nervous because I was doing things that were outside
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: the scope of what the other doctors were doing. But nonetheless,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: I had never been to a homebirth. Twenty eight years
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: of working with midwives and I had never been to
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: a home birth. And that's a mistake. And if I
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: can suggest anything to young physicians, who are in training
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: or whatever else is. Take the opportunity. If you can
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: go to some homeers just sit there as Uncle Bob visiting.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: Don't do anything, just watch, sit in the corner, get
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: permission from the woman from her midwife, and to go.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: If you really want an education on birth, if you
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: really want to be really good at your profession, then
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: you need to know what all the options are. Also, like,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: get breach training. Even if you go to work for
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: a hospital, it won't allow you to do a breach delivery.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: Sometime there's a woman that's going to come in with
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: the baby's feet or butt sticking out of the vagina.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: You're not going to know what to do, and you're
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: going to panic and you're either going to pull on
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: that baby or you're going to shove it back up
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: inside and dats or knock her out completely and give
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: her a traumatic berth because you didn't know a maneuver
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: that could have got that baby out in fifteen or
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: twenty seconds. These are not I mean, obstetricians are supposed
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: to be experts in all things birth.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: They're not.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: They're experts in surgical birth and medicalized birth. But if
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: you've never seen a home birth. If you've never seen
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: a woman where you actually have done nothing but sit
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: quietly and listen in another room, or caught a breach baby,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: you can't say that you're an obstetrician. You know, I
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: told you they want to take away the word midwife
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: from midwives. But I don't know how you call yourself
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: an obstetrician when six percent of babies at term are
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: going to be breach and you don't know how to
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: take care of them. That's one in every eighteen women
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: that walk into your office, and every seventeen women, and
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: you're supposed to be an expert, and you're not as
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: i as somebody who was like OCD and wanted to
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: be the best that I could possibly be. I would
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: have been really furious if in training, my mentors, my
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: residency training program didn't teach me how to take care
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: of one out of every seventeen women who walked into
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: my office, I'd be embarrassed. I go after them. I
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: try to change the system. I try to bring back
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: these skills because the women of our community deserve it.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: Before we promote your podcast, stew I just quickly wanted
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: to give a shout out to some of the other
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: names who had a big influence Captain Graves I mentioned
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of this conversation. I would strongly recommend
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: anybody read her books on hypno birthing. What does the
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: name of that woman I've now gone Blanc who became
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: the face of the sort of hippie of Askin. That's
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: a that's a uh.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: She wrote Spiritual Midwiffrey, and she read a couple other books.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: We've got that book. Yeah, we read that book together.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: It's an incredible it's incredible.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah. A long time ago.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm happy to report that lately, I think
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: she's doing appearances again.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: For a while she wasn't, and I'm thrilled.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: She's old.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: No, we all are.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she must be.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: I think she.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: I think she's in the eighties or even.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, in the seventies.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: She must have been twenty, So that means, you know,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: I was actually around that age too.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: She's older than she's older than me. She's older and me.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: She's got to be in her mid seventies or late seventies,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: probably right.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: But her well did she write that book? Always? It
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: a book about to our contra remember, but it's a
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: collection of stories all related.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: To she in the Midwiest from the farm in Tennessee
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: wrote the book. They from what I understand, she got
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: permission to like put her name on the book. But
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: it doesn't matter who wrote it. She's responsible for it,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: and she deserves credit. She deserves credit as to all
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: the pioneers of her age who you know, ran out
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: of gas in Tennessee. They left San Francisco on a
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: bus and they were just going across country. They ran
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: out of gas in Tennessee and that's where they put
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: down roots, the famous farm.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: I can promise you now if you if you read
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: some of those stories about those those births, it will
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: certainly make you feel better about your pregnancy.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: Well, they trusted that, they trusted women and they trusted
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: the bodies in those times. And by the way, in
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: the seventies, I mean even obsetricle, even though there were
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: you know, twilight sleep and foresteps and vacuums, I mean,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: the C section rate was only five percent.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: So it's only gotten worse since the seventies.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: And again I know that there's lots of reasons for that,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: but one of the reasons I've put on that was
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: the formation of the specialty of high.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: Risk of cetrics.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: The I again, I'm waiting for somebody from the Society
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: of Maternal Fetal Medicine to try to refute what I'm saying.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: But they were founded in nineteen seventy seven, and they're
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: an American organization, but their influences worldwide, and ever since
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy seven, everything about obstetrics has gotten worse. There
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: have been individual cases where they've done wonderful things, but
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: you know, in nineteen seventy about one in three women
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: had an ultrasound. Now, rarely does a woman make it
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: through pregnancy without four or five six ultrasounds. Every one
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: of those ultrasounds is a billable charge. If you label
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: every woman high risk, you create large volume of clientele.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: Look I compare this, there's a lot. A little bit
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: of medical history is really interesting. Do you know that
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: prior to the mid eighties, a cholesterol under three hundred
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: was considered fine. Okay, Then in nineteen eighty seven they
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: changed the American Heart Association changed the cholesterol level from
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: three hundred down to two forty. Why did they do
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: that in nineteen eighty seven, do you know, Jeremy.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: Probably because of the low fat diet that came out.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 4: Close.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: It was because Lipitor was invented. Oh, it's a statin
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: and it was designed to lower your cholesterol. So by
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: lowering the level from three hundred down to two forty,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: did they improve outcomes? No, but they got forty to
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: fifty million more people that could be labeled as having
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: high cholesterol who could then doctors could then write out
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: a prescription for lipitor, And then somewhere in the two
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: thousands that they lowered it to two hundred again, creating
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: another twenty thirty forty million people in my country who
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: are now labeled as high cholesterol. This is what they do.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: They don't improve outcomes. They find more ways to generate revenue.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: And that's what the maternal fetal medicine specialist has done,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: because I can't you know if they say that they're
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: improving outcomes, and how come they're not improving outcomes? How
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: come we're not seeing a statistical improvement in our babies.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: We're seeing by the way, in the last twenty years,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: there's been a doubling of NICU admission rates new born
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: intense security in admission rates. In the last thirty years,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: the rate of postpartum hemorrhage is tripled, I mean doubled.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: Excuse me, it is double. Why if we're doing so good,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: maybe it's because of what we're doing that's causing those things.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: But they don't look at that stuff. They never want
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: to look at that stuff. They only want to look
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: at that one percent of people that are birthing at home.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: And let's go after those crazy traditional midwives who aren't
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: following our protocols.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: And something that really bothers me is seeing all those
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: babies in those little little cubicle things. I remember when
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: our boy was born, As I said earlier, the home
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: birth turned out to you know, we had to go
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: to the hospital. My wife said to me, he does
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: not leave my arms or your arms. That's it.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: Because your wife was knowledgeable. She took the time to
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: listen to alter alternative ideas and then made up her
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: mind for herself as to what seemed reasonable to her.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: And again it gets back to nature's design. A small
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: percentage of babies need help. A lot of times they
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: need help because of the way they were brought into
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: the world, so it's yatrogenic. But most babies don't. Most
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: babies should be left alone. The course should be left intact.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: The baby should go on the mom's chest, whether that's
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: by sea section or whether that's by vaginal delivery. I mean,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: I see section. You have to protect a sterile field.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: I get that, But you can work it out where
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: you could have delay court clamping and then the mother
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: could have the baby right here. The baby doesn't need
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: to go to the warmer where three strangers from the
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: pediatric department upstairs are coming down to do all these
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: things to your baby while mom is sitting behind a curtain,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: not being able to see or relate to her baby. Again,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: these are just policies that have been put in place
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: that nobody ask why, or even if they ask why,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: they get yelled at for asking why. I still want
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: to ask why do babies go from a mom in
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: lithotomy position pushing out her baby to having a cut
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: court and go over to the warmer on the other
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: side of the room.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: That is still protocol and more than.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: Half of all hospitals in the world, And the question
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: is why. And if you ask a nurse why they're
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: doing it, they'll say something like, well, it's our policy,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: or we have to make sure the baby's okay, Well,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: can't you make sure the baby's okay right here? No,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: because I didn't learn to do it that way. And
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: when they get all caught up and they get all
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: agitated because you're messing with their world. And even when
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: their world isn't working well, they don't want you to
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: mess with their world. And if it's working well by
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: design to create generate revenue and keep people in power,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: then those people don't want it to be changed either.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: Change has to come from women like your wife, who
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: have to say no, you're not going to give my
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: baby via McKay. You're not going to give my baby
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: a hepatitis vaccine, a shot for a sexually transmitted disease
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: that me and my husband don't have. And you're not
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: going to take the baby away from me because I
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: want to be with my baby. I think it's nature's
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: design is for me and my baby to bond hormonally, sensory,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: in every possible way. The baby does not need to
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: be wrapped up like a burrito. The baby does not
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: need to go off into another room that sort of thing. No, again,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: going back to your example, the animal park, you know,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: nobody walks in and takes a baby rhinoceris array from
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: its mother. Right, you just don't do it, and even
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: if that baby's struggling, you kind of let nature do
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: its thing.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: Now in humans we want to intervene.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: But why are so many more babies struggling now than
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: they were thirty forty years ago? And the system wants
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: to say, oh, women are older, women are fat, or
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: you know, there's you know, five G micro but they
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: want to blame something else. Why don't you take a
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: look at what you're doing first and see and compare
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: it to the same women who are birthing at home.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: They drink in the same water, they have the same
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: five G you know, they have the same microplastic issues,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: but their babies and their and their pregnancies are healthier.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: Maybe it could be something you're doing. The same person
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 3: would think about that and say, yeah, we should look
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: at it. So I can only tell you what the
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: alternative is that these people are not necessarily saying they're
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: motivated by something other than outcomes.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: All right, stew let's promote your podcast.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: Okay, it's birthing instincts. Everything I have is birthing instincts.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: So it's Birthing Instinct's podcast. It's on your podcast app
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: any one of them, and Bliss Young and I have
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: been doing it for a long time and we talk
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: about mostly things birth, but we have very interesting guests on.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: We recently had Del Big Treon. I no, no, I
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: think you're probably hope your listeners know who he is. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: you've had him on, right, So yeah, I mean it's
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: just we don't always do birth, but we sort of
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: did focus on birth. But then Dell went off on
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: a tangent, which I loved because he just went on
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: to a rant and it was great because I'm usually
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: the one that goes off on a rant, so that
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: was kind of a.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 4: Relief for me. Oh yeah, of course.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: So we have that, and then my website is Birthing
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: Instincts dot com, where you have links to where I'm teaching.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: I go around the world and I teach a two
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 3: day seminar on breach and twin skills. It's been very
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: well received. I do ten to twelve of them a year,
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: So that's.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: On the website.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: We have a Patreon membership at the podcast website, which
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: is birthing Andsincspodcast dot com, and you can join our patron.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 3: We have almost I think we're up to about almost
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 3: near two thousand people. Very different levels, so some are
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: basic free and then there's a very more expensive levels
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: where we have extra content. You can see our podcast
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: without commercials. You can see us on video. We do
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: supplemental stuff that we put up for the podcast. We
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: do segments, and I do a deep dive every now
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: and then on a topic and it's.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: A sense of community.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: We have a peer review once a month where people
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: can come talk openly. You get see you credits for that.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: We have a Q and A once a month and
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: people can come on and just ask questions and you
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: get a bunch of birth workers given you answers that
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: sort of thing. Bliss has what's called a Village Prenatal,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: so she does that once a month where people can
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 3: come on and they do like what a prenatal visit
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: would be like, and they go through that and everybody
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: chimes in and it's it's a sense of community where
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: people can air out their grievances or their experiences or
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: share a wonderful story or maybe a tragedy.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 4: And Bliss and I.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: Will occasionally do debriefing with people who had an outcome
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: that wasn't great, whether it's a birth worker or a
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: family themselves, and give them some uneared to unear to
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: and a shoulder to lean on. So that's that's what
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 3: we do. And then I'm I published some papers. I'm
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: sort of working on books but I don't really want
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: to talk about them yet because I'm not sure how
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: far I'll get on them. But one of them will
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: be on twins, because I really do think that this
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: is a this is an area where the medical system
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: has failed miserably with twins. Pretty Much everything they recommend
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 3: about twins is not evidence based or not every not
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 3: good evidence based, and it's not supported. And there certainly
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: are other options, and you wouldn't know it if you
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 3: went to your typical maternal fetal medicine doctor, who again
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: treats everybody the same on an algorithm, and every woman
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: with twins is an individual, and medicine doesn't like that.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: Their system isn't designed to deal with individuals. It's time
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 3: to work on volume and move people through. It's assembly line,
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 3: algorithmic and that's my mission in life. And then so
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 3: that's it. Birthing instincts, you'll.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: Find me and your podcast, I'll reiterate, is very special
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: to me and my wife, so I can only recommend it.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: But on that very uplifting note, doctor Stuart Fishbine, thank
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: you for joining me in the Strangers.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: Jeremy, it's always a pleasure. Looking forward to coming to
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: South Africa at some point