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The Man Behind The Best Plates For The Tactical Games | Nic Dinsmore With Jacked Rabbit Plates · Discomfort Required

• Trent: What's up guys? Welcome to Discomfort Required. I'm your host, Trent Williamson. Today, we have Nick Dinsmore from Jacked Rabbit on the podcast. And we're gonna get into his little little bit of his backstory and talk about how he started the company and where it's going and all that fun stuff. Nick, how are you today? Nic: Hey, doing great, man. How about you? Trent: Doing doing well. been hanging out. My wife is in Atlanta for a couple days. So we went out to Boise. We got home at like 3 15 in the afternoon. She took a nap. I took her to the airport at 10 PM and then she flew and she's gonna be coming home tomorrow. So I'm pretty pretty stoked about that. first things first, we asked this of everybody, what does discomfort require mean to you? Nic: Okay, so d discomfort required. I I think the first thing that pops in my mind is progress is uncomfortable. discomfort required just makes me think, like, hey, you're not gonna like what you need to do, but to get to where you wanna be, this is the this this is the requirement. This is what needs to be done. so yeah, progress is uncomfortable. and then something else I thought of success is not often convenient. there to me at least in my experience there's always some type of cost associated. and that cost is usually uncomfortable. Trent: Yeah, I agree. I agree one hundred percent. that that's a great answer. I have never had progress not be uncomfortable, you know, because if you're if if you're not getting uncomfortable, you're kind of just sitting in your comfort zone and spinning your wheels and all that fun stuff. so Nick, what was what was growing up like? Did you play any sports or anything like that? Nic: Yeah, so not much. So I I grew up one and nine and so we just kind of all shuttled into the same sports to keep things as simple as possible, right? So I played like rec soccer through middle school. I think I played for our school team for like a season and I think they kept me on defense and I didn't even start. not the most Trent: Yeah. Nic: no not not the thickest sport background. and then in high school I got more into music. and Trent: nice. Nic: kind of put like my focus just free time creative time was was more into that. I did not have any type of like physical sport training outlet really until my late twenties when I stumbled across Tack Games. And Trent: sweet. Nic: Saw that and I was like, Well that looks really cool. What do I what do I have to do to to to play along with those guys? 'Cause that just looks like a lot of fun. Trent: Right. like as soon as I saw Tack Games, I I said the same thing, and that's how me and my wife are getting into it now. what kind of music did you play? Nic: Yeah. I just played I played a lot for our church, and then in high school I actually took off my senior year and jumped in a a a band and toured around a little bit with some with some buddies and so I did that for a year. Trent: sweet. Nic: realized that I hated it and not so much the playing music, but just the roads life was not not appealing to me. I did that for about a couple couple of years and then I was like, I think we're gonna go test in and go to college. So go be an engineer. Trent: Yeah, for sure. so I was in a band also for years and years and years multiple bands for years and years. But one of we were we did pretty good and we got a play all over the place and I will never go back to it. Like, was it a great time? Yes. Was I do I love the memories? For sure, but I would never, ever, ever do that again. There's not a chance, you know. Nic: yeah. Yeah. Anytime I'm at a competition and I see the the CGG staff loading and unloading their double axle trailer, which is exactly what we had. I I I would just think having to do that every single night 'cause we were smart enough, and by that I mean not smart at all, but we we had the great idea of traveling with our own full entire PA system that we would set up and tear down every night we played. so Trent: man. Yeah, that's brutal. We w we were lucky enough, like, I mean, we were just a hardcore punk band. So like we we Nic: Yeah. Trent: just had some amps, some drums, and you know, there was a PA usually at all the places we played. and then as the venues started getting bigger and they started getting nicer, sometimes things were backline. So whatever amp was on stage, I just got a play out of that, which was great. it just made life way, way easier. but still trucking stuff sucks. Sleeping in Nic: Yeah. Yep. Trent: random hotels all the time sucks. It's just it's just not the it's not the greatest thing for sure. Nic: Yes. Eat eating on the road sucks. Trent: Yeah, it do it r it really does. talking about stumbling onto the tech games. How how did that all happen? Nic: Yeah, I again just kinda stumbled into it. So somehow popped up on my social media feed and again I'm not I I I come from a hunting and just shooting background. not even competitive shooting, but just a lot of just practical like concealed carry type training and just just enjoyed shooting. So, you know, I've reloaded, shot a lot, And then Avid Hunter ever since I was little, ever since I could. and You know, just like being outside, like moving, and so I I saw some some posts, some some media content from that, and it just looked like a lot of fun. It's like, moving weight and shooting guns sounds really cool. Trent: Yeah. Nic: And I again I had no exposure to what Tack game was. And so I kind of just assumed like, this must be for militaries and elite departments, just you know, send guys out to go compete or train or or whatever. I actually recognized one of my friends from one of their the pictures they posted. He Jackson County or is it Kansas City SWAT at the time? I don't I don't remember. But and so I ended up reaching out to him and being like, hey, do you do this sport? Is this open to anybody? And he's yeah, and actually we're hosting I'm I'm putting on a a skirmish is what they call their one day events. and he was putting on a local skirmish in our in Kansas City area where where we all were and so that's kind of he's like you know come start training with us and we'll you know sign up for the skirmish and that was that was my first Trent: That's super cool. I r I I really like that. tech games has crossed my feed for a long time. just because like I'm a CrossFit trainer, right? So I've been in the CrossFit space forever. And it's a it's a it's a pretty good carryover. but one of my athletes who I was training remotely, her and her husband had had done a team w regional, I think, Prior to me quachen her and she was telling me about it. And I'm like, that sounds super fun. And then I started like just digging into it. And it's just like, okay, this is gonna be my new sport. And it's like, Nic: Yeah. Trent: I I love CrossFit, don't get me wrong, but like time to take a little bit of a break and do something that's just like grunt work and just fun, right? And it's like a new challenge. And the more I do these sandbag workouts, the more I'm like, man, I'm not nearly as in shape as I thought I was. So it it's it's a good kick in the face. Nic: Well it it's a different kind of shape, right? I I see that with a lot of you know, I had no background. I've never done CrossFit or lifted or anything. And so I got I kinda had I guess you'd call it I don't know if you call it a benefit, but the convenience of starting off training with those implements. And so I was pretty used to Trent: Mm-hmm. Nic: sandbags by the time I competed and doesn't mean I was very fit at all. but I I see a lot of guys who come over like more from CrossFit or just traditional gym space and that's the first thing they'll struggle with. And again it's not even 'cause it's heavy, right? the sandbags Trent: Mm. Nic: will oftentimes weigh way less than the barbells they're moving. it's just a completely different stimulus and a completely different implement and you know, it just takes a little bit of repetition to just to get used to the mechanics of it. but now heavy sandbags ironically enough I'm a pretty small guy, but th those are some of my favorite favorite implements I I see out when we compete. Trent: Yeah, me me too. And I I mean I'm only five eight. I weigh one seventy-five, I think. And it's, you know, it's fun doing stuff where it's like, I can do CrossFit. I've competed a bunch. and my wife, who's who very, very, very fit, like, it's slower, but it's also like more like methodical. And it's just it just hits you different. And she said the same thing when we started doing this. She's like, man, this is this is rough. how many tactical games have you done? Nic: sheesh. Between fifteen and twenty Trent: Whew. All right. That's a lot. when when was your first one? Nic: I did in twenty twenty one, I think we did I did two again, one day skirmishes. I don't know if you really count those, but but that was when I first started got introduced in the sport. and then starting in twenty two is when I started I or competed in my first like two day regional event, and that was in Meridian, Mississippi. Am I saying that? Yeah. Trent: Okay. Nic: Yeah. and that that's that's a really fun venue. I I really enjoy that one. they haven't gone back there and it's been a few years, but they used to hit it every year and I think they were ready to start trying some new venues and had some new opportunities to open up. But but yeah, that was a lot of fun. That was my my first regional it was the it was their first event of that season and it was the very first time they opened up what's called the tactical division, which is kinda like in between your intermediate and your elite. And so I signed up for that at the time because that was the only division you could compete in and use a red dot on your pistol. Trent: okay. Nic: And I've been shooting with a red dot for seven or eight years and I mean no how to shoot irons, but it was just you know, it's like okay, I'd have to modify my pistol, like take off like it was a it was a pistol, like back then they didn't have a lot of pistols that were even optic ready. So you'd like actually mail in your slide to a shop and they'd see and see it and it would be a direct mount. And Trent: Mm-hmm. Nic: so I don't even know if I had irons on that pistol. so I signed up for the TAC division, which they usually recommend just do intermediate your first match. in in general for your first two day or first regional event. and you know, looking back it probably would have been a better fit for for me. I'm I'm five two and at the time I maybe weighed a hundred and ten pounds. Trent: Okay. Nic: so it was just a lot of weight for me. but it was fun. I think we had Trent: Yeah, definitely. Nic: I think we had like twenty-five guys in that division and I I finished somewhere in the top ten. I I think I was between seventh and fifth. Trent: That's awesome. Nic: But physically I was pretty wrecked. shooting was really strong and you know, but there were several stages where I couldn't even finish enough of the work to f to shoot all this all the all the sets or s or rounds, whatever you want call it. so then I had to start, you know, force feeding myself. And I I I I think after that one I c I actually kinda like even took a break from a lot of conditioning and just kind of dedicated a year to just gaining weight and strength. Trent: Mm-hmm. Nic: which for me I saw some big increases. I'm still the smallest guy on the field, but Trent: Nothing wrong with that at all. Nic: But but no, it's yeah, that was a it was a really fun event. I I you know, I I think like you said, a and I feel like a lot of people have a similar reaction, when they first see the sport. There's something that when they see it, they just instantly clicks they're like, I I'm going to do this. Like there's just there's something that you there's just some in immediate connection where like, this is gonna be awesome. and you just start Trent: Mm-hmm, for sure. Nic: I'm gonna drop everything else you're doing, like, I'm gonna train for this now. I've never even done it before, don't know anybody else who's involved in it, but Trent: Mm-hmm. Nic: there's just some automatic pull and I definitely got bit by that bug. It it has not let up. I guess this is my my fifth or sixth season going in and I'm I'm just as excited every event I go to now as I was when I first started. Trent: I love hearing that. That's super, super great. when did they start changing the divisions where you could have red dot in every division and things like that? Nic: I th Yeah. I think the next year they opened it up to intermediate. no, they yeah, they did. I ended up doing two more competitions that year, so that's in twenty two. So I I Trent: Mm-hmm. Nic: did the Meridian event. and then after that I'd I I dropped down to intermediate again just to so I could handle the weight. you know, and just have more fun competing. Finish the stages. Trent: For sure. Nic: and I I did intermediate those two times and it's so I I was running on So I wanna say in 23 they opened up red dots to all the divisions but elite. And then Trent: Okay. Nic: I in 24 they opened it up across the board. Trent: Okay, that's cool. I I feel like I'm kinda lucky that I'm starting now, but like I wish I would have started when it was grassroots. I think that would have been super fun 'cause I mean I've been I've been doing CrossFit since two thousand fourteen and back then like I still was late to the game. Nic: sure. Yeah. Trent: Yeah, I was I was still late to the game, but it was like it was still like you go to the gym and you're in a warehouse and you're around a bunch of people and it's just like, let's go as hard as we possibly can. I'm glad that's changed, but you know, it's still like Nic: Yep. Trent: it'd been cool to be part of the grassroots part of it. so when did you decide that you needed something different for your plate carrier and started moving on this? Nic: Yeah. man, probably the the I mean the first year I I would started competing was I started kind of got the idea in twenty one. so Trent: Okay. Nic: yeah, I and I wasn't even you know, I I I don't even think at twenty one I'd these our sport is so young I probably wouldn't even be considered like an OG. I think it started in tw nineteen. but it was still very early on in those days and and what I realized in twenty one, after competing just through my own search of like looking for gear and and you know like okay what do I need to compile to be able to compete in this sport. And there wasn't any gear that I could find that was really dedicated, designed around the sport. I think there was one there was one company that was making specific plates or or plates that were specific to the weights for tactical games. but even that they were kind of designed around the like a like a two to two and a half pound vest, which I for for our sport I think is is a poor poor choice. If your vest alone, if your vest like stripped or slick weighs two or two and a half pounds, you probably have a lot of material on bulk on there that's that's not adding that's it's not beneficial getting in the way. You know, think think of Trent: Any benefit for sure. Nic: your like your five eleven classic, you know, weight, you know, plate carrier where, you when when the women crossfit athletes are using it in the games, it literally like starts at their neck and goes all the way, you know, down to their hips. Trent: Yeah. Yeah. Nic: yeah, i you know, it it just And and so and i also like there was there wasn't really anything like a flexible plate at the time. that was an idea that buddy mentioned to me actually, because I was like, you know, I'm gonna I like we were just hanging out at a at one of skirmishes and I was kinda complaining. I like, you know, I'm just gonna develop my own plate 'cause I couldn't find anything that really fit what I needed. you know, smaller guy, my vest weighed one pound and that's what I wanted to keep it too, 'cause I ha it was all slick like there just I didn't I didn't have anything on there I didn't need. and, you know, but he mentioned he's like, Well if you do, you should make it flexible. And I like, that's a Yeah, that's a good idea. Trent: Genius. Nic: Yeah, you know, hopped on the rule page and on the Tactical Games website and and like scrolled through and was like there's no comment about, you know, plates needing to be rigid. and so I was literally leaving, driving from that skirmish. I had my truck fully packed out to go help from Kansas. I was driving out directly to Montana to help a couple buddies trying to fill some mule deer tags. So I had a long drive ahead of me. And on the drive over, I just kind of brainstormed what that Look like. Put a material list together in my head. and then as soon as I got home, ordered everything and and started prototyping. And I think I had definitely had a few different design concepts and prototypes I ended up testing out. ironically enough, I had three different strategies. obviously the strategy we're using today, and then two other ones as well. since launching, I've seen the two other strategies that I prototyped and didn't love. I've seen two other, I've seen companies adopt. both those styles. so just fun Trent: Okay. Nic: to see as as the markets kind of started to catch up. It's it's it's always fun to see an idea you had and somebody else decides to run with it. And no nobody stole anything from me there. It just it was just curious to see like I have these three paths. I picked one and then s seeing other companies ha have similar thoughts and and explore them in different directions. But but yeah, so started prototyping, you know, handing out to a bunch of buddies to test. And then when I felt really confident in our design, we had a bunch of events and training underneath our belts using them. We officially launched in August of 22. And that was Yep, Trent: sweet, that's awesome. Nic: yep, just the plates at the time. you know, really focused for tech games community. Those are like our weights were only like seven pounds and five and a half pounds. individual plates then y y with the idea being a pair of those should get you one pound less than the you know the target weight for each each gender division. So fifteen for men, twelve for women. Trent: Yeah. That it and they look awesome. Like I'm gonna I'm gonna pick up a set. I have metal plates and they're annoying because they bounce all over the place and it's like they I've had these in the I've had my plate carrier since two thousand and fifteen. And there's like holes in it and all kinds of stuff. So I'm like, I need to it's time to upgrade. For sure. and it's an old condor, so it's very bulky. So the the inefficiencies are there for sure. Nic: yeah. Trent: seeing how the companies been growing. it is it's really cool to see from somebody who's that that's a that's a really, really awesome product. So when you started engineering these plates and you started prototyping, have you ever sewn before or anything like that? Nic: a little bit as a hot like just on and off as a hobby, just like tinkering with stuff. so I knew I knew how to, but not not like with industrial materials or anything. So no, I l I found a machine on Facebook Marketplace from a lady who used to sew magnetic horse blankets. and she was selling Trent: Okay. Nic: the machine for like I think she was just trying to get rid of it. She it was an old singer. I still have it just kind of to like for like memory's sake, but Trent: Mm-hmm. Nic: it was I think I bought it for two hundred and fifty bucks and the joke was between me and my wife, you know, I I bought it and ended up costing me twice that much because as I was driving home with it, I guess the straps that I had the table strapped down with came a little loose. Just as I was turning down a corner in my driveway, the table had just barely leaned up a little bit and just tapped the very corner panel of my rear truck window. and the entire thing just Trent: bummer. Nic: spider webbed and and so Trent: no. Nic: you know, the machine cost me two hundred fifty bucks and then the to replace their the rear window was five hundred bucks. So Trent: Yeah. All in all, it it it it ended up working out in the long run. Nic: For sure. Yep. but yeah, that's a that that's all I had when I started and w I man, I I think I ran on that machine for Maybe the first two years. Yep. So it didn't didn't Trent: wow. So Nic: need much. Trent: yeah, that and that's that's super cool. I love hearing people building stuff from the ground up. So if you had that for two years, how much is production ramped up in that time? Nic: Yeah. let's see. I mean we it's it doubled every year for the first three years. And then I Trent: That's amazing. Nic: don't I don't know if we're quite doubling this year, but we're we're still see we're we're still have a lot of growth. Yep. so it's still Trent: That that's amazing. Nic: continuing to grow. you know, I I kind of thought initially I think I underestimated the size of I don't really know what to call it. the term kind of tactical athlete is c I think it being just kind of accepted. I don't I don't really like the term 'cause it I don't know what that means, but but I guess that it's just kind of the best way to describe, you know, the competitors in our space and just that market as in in general. and I I thought I I figured we'd probably, you know, saturate our you know, our market you know, our market share of that market within the first year or two. But that still seemed that's and then we'd have to, you know, expand more out into functional fitness markets and things like that. and we have and and and still continue to grow in those spaces. but our our primary growth has continued to be in the tactical tactical athlete tactical market space. which is kinda surprised me, but Trent: That that's great. Nic: it it's really fun 'cause that's the community we we you know designed around and and you know, launched in and that, you know, that's I mean that's that's where our product was born. So it it's fun to see that market continue to grow. you know a lot of that for sure is is tactical games growth, right? that's where it has been on a a pretty sharp trajectory and continues to to do so. you know it's international now and I mean we get we get inquiries all the time from people all over the world asking if they can buy our plates. So yeah, we're Trent: That's super cool. Nic: it's been yeah, it's been it's been fun to watch. Trent: Yeah, congratulations, man. That that's that's super, super cool. I love that. what has been your biggest mindset shift since your company started taking off? Nic: Yeah. biggest mindset shift. There's been a lot of of of lessons learned, right? So by by occupation I'm you know an an engineer by trade. My background is mostly in manufacturing production. and and and past five years we've been doing a lot more design work as well. But you know, always in the role of engineer, when you take on your own thing and you own every every facet of it. you know, your your own little CEO. And I I think the one of the biggest lessons is I've learned you know, not so much what I'm good at, but what I'm really not good at. there are just things that I I have I don't have a desire to do or or am not gifted in. And and just learning how to partner with others and you know, and and onboard others to help assist in those areas. and then I think the other biggest lesson I've learned, and maybe this is this is in part starting the company, I think in part just getting older, having a bunch of kids myself and you know, as life gets busier, but I think the biggest lesson is is bit you know, time is seems to be very finite. i i it probably wasn't really till I hit my, you know, thirties where I I the the you know there's only 24 hours in a day really started to hit. where I just I did not I no longer had time to do everything. Right? and just physically, right? There's just there's not enough hours in the day. It's not I'm tired or I don't want to do it or I just want to take a day off. It it it's literally just no, there's just you know, you can only run off of four hours of sleep each night for so many nights, right? Yeah. There Trent: For so long, yeah, for sure. Nic: just you know on under what can be sustainable long term. term. there's there's only so many hours. And so y th I think the biggest lesson for me is is learning like there are certain things that will need to be focused and it will sacrifice other things, right? So if I'm gonna focus building this business, that's gonna mean I'm not spending as you know, I I I will just have to make cuts somewhere else, whether that's and you know that's either going show up as time in the gym or, you know, other hobbies like hunting or family time or other things like that. or sleep. That's Trent: Yeah. It's always sleep that's the first to go. Yeah. For sure. Nic: Usually one of the first ones in the shopping block, right? It it is. and so it's it's that balance and it and it kind of goes back to your first question, you know. what you know, what does discomfort required mean? And there's there's just some, you know, inevitable sacrifice that that it's gonna take to get anything real off the ground. Trent: for sure. Nic: And and you know, I've definitely felt that these these past four years. but you know, it's I've g I've learned so many lessons and and and and grown so much as well. you learn a lot about yourself. and so you know that that's but that's been a huge experience. Trent: I I think that you know, I get I talk to a lot of entrepreneurs and I have a lot of my clients that I have personal training with, they own businesses and things. And I think one of the hardest things that I see across the board is when they realize they can't do everything themselves. And it's not necessarily that they just physically can't. It's like you were saying You might not excel at this or you might not be very good at this other thing. And it's like that's the stuff you have to pass off. And it's really hard when it's your baby and it's your thing, like giving it off to somebody. So I used to own a gym in downtown Seattle. Well, I used to be part owner of gym in downtown in Seattle. And one of the hardest things was like hiring another gym manager to help me so I could focus on growing the business. So he would run the business. It was just, it was a a very wild thing, but I think that helped me grow so much as a person. And as a business person and It's so so tough. what led into the other products that you started developing? Nic: Yeah, absolutely. So you know We we we launched our Vest and then our Placard at National's last year. So last year in November. and so that's our that's our total lineup. But I guess we expanded our plate offering as well, maybe a couple years ago. We started selling our nine pound or nine and a half pound plates for more towards your functional fitness CrossFit athlete who's looking for a total weight of twenty pounds. so we added those to lineup maybe a couple of years ago and then Last year we launched our vest and placard, which were the vest is again just designed as a specific vest to fit our plates. and and and again, we're we're I think we were probably the first fitness brand that I am aware of to truly bring a slick carrier to the to the fitness market. That wasn't actually a plate carrier designed around ballistic plates. Trent: Right. That's super cool. Nic: Yeah, it was it would yeah it was it was fun to be able to do that. it was it was great to finally be able to offer a vest to to pair with our plates. there's there's a lot of great vest options out there and I've used many of them and have no complaints. but we what we realized is we had so many people emailing in saying like hey what vest should I get what vest should I get? do you guys make a vest? and and so we're like yeah we we really need to make make our own pairing with our plates and so I just took a little time for us to develop what we you know what we want to put our name behind. you know, may i putting it through the ringer again, you know, we know our vest. I think the unique thing about Tack Games and and the you know the our the majority of our customer base is, you know, I I guess most most people who are buying a you know training vest specifically for, you know, workouts or whatever, if they use it once a week, that's probably a lot. you know, I mean you're coming from across the background, so you know, right? Like how like how many times a month Trent: For sure. Nic: do you actually bust the vest out for a workout? you know, probably not a ton. Right, exactly. Trent: Probably two times a year. Yeah, we do Murph and we do Chad. And that is pretty much it. Nic: Yep. maybe sometimes if you wanna make it run, suck a little extra, you'll throw it on. but Trent: Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. Nic: you know, whereas like a lot of guys in our sport will we'll we'll train in every week, and you know, and and then compete in them regularly. you know, a lot of guys are hitting skirmishes once a month, and then, you know, anywhere from three to I don't know, five or six regionals. I've I've seen some some guys will hit like I there's some guys that are like Brandon almost Brandon Rodas almost hits like I think it's almost like every regional sometimes this year. He's a wild guy and he's an incredible athlete. Trent: I mean that's that's awesome. Nic: incredible competitor, really fun to watch compete. excited to see him in nationals this year. But but yeah, i i our point being our our product really does get the absolute snop beaten out of it. And and again, like when it is being used, it's not just like a Murph workout right. It's it's a tactical games environment where it's outside. whatever the weather is and some of the dustiest, dirtiest, you know and you know, and gear goes down all the time. I I've never seen so many pistols and rifles go down. Like all my years of shooting, all the classes, whatever else I've done, like never seen more go gear go down. and you know, fitness gear too. Stuff fails all the time. So I had a I had a bag tear on me halfway through a stage in Iowa a couple years back. just pouring out sand on a stress scary Trent: man. Like, this isn't what I wanted. Nic: yeah. So you know, we s we see stuff go down all the time. And so making a product that could r really endure that kind of abuse. and it's been fun, you know, I I've never to date and I'd hesitate to say this 'cause I'm like, you know, you say it once then it's gonna come back and bite you. But in the four years that we've had a product out, I have not gotten a single plate return or email saying my plate's busted. Trent: That's amazing. I I congratulations. Nic: or return because it's broken or something like that. Yeah, it's it's been f Trent: Yeah, that's Nic: you know, I I think back to like l literally a lot of the guys who some of the first guys to buy our plates are still very active competitors today and I was thinking about the other day, I like, they're like they're still running like the OG plates from like four years ago. you know, and these guys have again have like probably t twenty or more events under their belt as well, plus just regular training and and stuff like that. And so yeah, it's it's it's fun to see you know, the f the product is really d held, you know, held held up. and what I would consider probably the you know for a fitness vest, I think it's probably safe to say our sport's the most abusive out there. for what a Trent: yeah, well hands down. Nic: vest is tip would typically go through from an average user. So Trent: Yeah, for sure. Nic: to see our to see our plates and you know our vests out there as well. our vest will just like any other vest, our our vest will probably still you know, you you could do a number on it. but but yeah. Trent: two parts of a question here. So A, how much has changed from the first gen of your plates to now? Like production like I know production has just gone up and and and bigger machines and things like that, but like how much different is the OG plate compared to now? Nic: Yeah, i i in in general theory, nothing at all. but in There's been a few design tweaks we made. so like, you know, your your general construction is still the same. we're still using this similar materials, but our original design was a little bit more square and had six baffles. and I changed our I made some changes and rolled over to what I just kinda call our Gen 2, which is a five baffle design based off some a request and some feedback from a a competitor asking if I could make him a plate that would fit his swimmer cut vest. Trent: okay. Nic: And so we we went we went from six baffles to five and we actually shrunk our plate dimensions overall a little bit and got us a a s a heavier chamfer or angled cut on those top corners. again, just give Trent: nice, right on. Nic: a little bit more yeah, mobility around your arms, armpits, shoulders, and then yeah, we'll fit a wider variety of of vests as well. So yeah, so not not much. Trent: That's that's super cool. And then my second part was how long did it take to develop your plate carrier and like test it and all that stuff before you decided to roll it out? Nic: F sh probably about a year. I there's I think all of last year and every I I think I did four different events last year and I think in every one you'll see me in a different vest. A different looking vest because I was Trent: Mm-hmm. Nic: testing and tweaking and changing things. So yeah, in about about a year. and again I just wanting to test, you know, also get some stress under the the design. you know, we're not necessarily reinventing the wheel with our vest, so that we it wasn't like we had some brand new proof of concept we we really needed to vet out. you know, we're still using all the, you know, tried intrude and trusted materials that you'd see in a typical slick carrier. But but yeah, just making sure our process you know, our our manufacturing process was was gonna hold up. Trent: That's legit. And then your placard. how much testing went into the placard? Nic: about well I guess I guess you could say I've been running a variation of that placard for four years. Trent: sweet. Nic: I just yeah, I I just made my own to compete with. kinda waited till we had a vest to sell along with it. because I didn't want to have to necessarily it it wor it will work with most of the vests you see out there in our sport, but I kinda wanted to wait to have a vest to release it all together. one, 'cause it it makes a great tactic like just tactical athlete bundle. but then two, I didn't want to have to necessarily vet a whole like selling this to a whole bunch of customers who are maybe newer to the sport and didn't necessarily know what vest would or wouldn't be compatible and then just kind of deal with all that. Like, hey about Trent: Mm-hmm. Nic: you know, why doesn't this fit my, you know, OG five eleven? Which it may actually would. I'd have to I don't remember what those look like. But But yeah, and then what's unique about our placard is what what we do offer there that's different from any other one on the market that I'm aware of. is we can so it it's just real basic. You've got three slots that can hold three magazines. what's unique about it is that can either be three magazines of rifle or pistol or any combination of them. So it's a two-tiered placard that allows Trent: sweet. Nic: you to to slip in either a rifle or pistol mag. So Trent: That's awesome. Nic: yeah so you can't do both. You can't run like six mags, but you can run and the idea behind that again is to to to keep it slick. So we could make it to where you could run six mags but That's a lot of bulk on your chest. Most people aren't gonna want to do that. and then what's nice about it, like I never take mine off because when you're not using it, it's it's completely flat. So it's not it's not in the way when you don't want it. And and the advantage there is so again, we use a lot of different implements in our sport. so like when we're doing like a farmer carry stage, I want as everything off my hips I can get. so you know, Trent: yeah. Nic: pistol's gotta stay there. but even then I I have a belt I made that I can just kind of rotate to the side a little bit and get my pistol away Trent: Nice. Nic: from my forearm and then I'll load all my mags into my placard and then the p the pockets and our cumber bond as well. and get everything off Trent: Nice. Nic: my off my hips again. But say we're doing like stress carry stage, I want everything off my chest. so that's where I'll, you know, won't run the the placard. run everything I can on my belt. but the placard and stay because it's not actually not like some of the other ones on the market which are rigid or have a lot of bulk on them where even if Trent: Mm-hmm. Nic: you don't have anything in them, they're still adding space on your on your your vest to where you're holding something and now it's going to be further offset from you. So Trent: Yeah. And there's elastic coming out and all the all that stuff. So yeah. That's a good call. I'd I I dig that. so are you developing anything else that is coming down the pipe? Nic: Yeah, we are. we've got two two products in development. one I'll keep under cover for now, 'cause it's just too early for me to Trent: That's fair. Nic: wanna release too many details on it. I I s I've got again Trent: That's fair. Nic: some concepts I've been playing with, an idea I'm really excited about, but I wanna I wanna have a little bit more testing under my belt before I put that out there. But the one the one I'm hoping that we'll have out by the end of this year, maybe again for nationals, is we we've got a belt design that we've been testing this year. Again, that Trent: that's awesome. Nic: that is designed yeah, designed specifically for our sport again in kind of in line and in ethos with the rest of our gear. and yeah, so we've been I've been running that all year, probably even parts of last year too, I think. Yeah. And so yeah, keep it keep an eye out for that. Trent: Yeah. That's great. Nic: said I goal would be end of this year, maybe first quarter of next year. But we're really excited about that. I I think we're gonna have some Trent: I love that. Nic: unique features for for athletes in our sport. you know, again, getting away from some of the things that you know, again the belts are are still it's something that we're mostly just pulling from what exists for the gun market, either for law enforcement or military. where you know Know the the the core design requirements are there, right? We need a belt that holds a pistol and a bunch of mags, but you know in the law enforcement world and the military world, there's there's a lot more requirements. They're carrying a lot more on their belts, they're holding a lot more weight. you know, military world, you know, some of these belts are rated for like repelling and things like that, which again is adding a lot of weight, a lot of mass and a lot of rigidity that actually kind of gets in the way. So we're we're we're we're looking to offer something more strict. streamlined and more intentional for athletes. 'cause again it's kind of a it's kind Trent: That's great. Nic: of a unique thing, right? but yeah, w we love serving that market so we wanna we wanna continue to do so. Trent: That's super awesome. And being for a specific market, people appreciate that. I I can tell you that right now. That's that's super cool. What is your competition schedule like for the rest of the year? Nic: Yeah, this is probably my lightest year since competing, unfortunately. I had I competed in Missouri in April. That was that was a ton of fun. Trent: Wasn't that a super rainy one? It's super muddy. Nic: Yeah. Well, it was r it was n so it wasn't s I think South Carolina w was the really muddy one. we could have looked Trent: okay. Nic: like South Carolina, but the rain stopped the day before the match. So there was Trent: Okay. Nic: a lot of mud, but it wasn't raining and a and thankfully a lot of the like like driving in Friday was was pretty rough. they were Trent: Mm-hmm. Nic: literally having to like redrag all the gravel roads going in because we just completely ripped it up. There's so much water on the ground. But competing it was it was n it wasn't too bad. It wasn't the worst one I've seen. And Trent: Okay. Nic: then yeah, I think South Carolina was one or two events after and that yeah that one looked Trent: Yeah, I saw one. It's like people have plastic bags over their pistols and like I couldn't l so like the two hundred pound Nic: Yeah. huh. That's a real thing, man. Trent: sandbag probably weighed two forty with all the water and mud in it. Nic: Yeah. Yeah. And we did have some of that, because, you know, they they brief everything on Friday, right? So it's all out Trent: Mm-hmm. Nic: there. So the bags were you know, I will say that the bags were heavy. because they were the bags were still wet. But but yeah, it's it still doesn't compare to when I I've been at competitions where you're you know, it's raining and you're literally putting the bag over the bar and just watching it land in a puddle. And it's just like every rep it's getting heavier. Trent: You're just like, why? Why me? man. Nic: Yeah. Trent: And like just fishing it out of the mud. so yeah, how many do you have left for the for the rest of the season? Nic: Yeah, so I did that. I was supposed to do Iowa, couldn't make it. That's actually the first year I've missed Iowa since this started going, which is a bummer. so next we'll just be I we're gonna run a booth at Nationals and then I just signed up for Intermediate just to compete. So I Trent: sweet. Nic: usually try to qualify in tactical. this year I just w wasn't able to get to an event. so I did in i I did intermediate in April. got to got a couple new buddies into it and so we all did intermediate together. That was a lot of fun. and then I was supposed to goal was qualifying tactical in Iowa and then, you know, see what the rest of your looks like. But so yeah, it'll be it would still be fun to go down, run the booth and then what's you know, intermediate at Nationals is it's also only two days, which will be perfect 'cause still allows me to run the booth and it's you know, it's just compete and have fun doing that. so yeah. I'm I'm looking forward to it. It should be it should be pretty chill for me. Trent: That that's awesome. so how many employees does Jackrabbit have at the moment? Nic: Man, just me and one other full time employee and then we do some contracting with some part time employees for social media content and stuff like that as well. Trent: What you're you're killing it. I I'm beyond Nic: Right. Trent: impressed. Like definitely. and if you need help testing anything, I'm your guy. I'll put it through hell for sure. For sure. Nic: Absolutely, man. Well, hey, what what about you? Are you are you getting out any for any events this year are you scoping out next year? Trent: So it's definitely gonna be next year. we just Nic: Okay. Trent: got married three and a half weeks ago, which best best party Nic: Well congrats. That's awesome. Trent: of my life. Thank you. Yeah, it was, it was it couldn't it couldn't have been any better, like honestly. and then we just went out to Idaho, like I was talking about. and Nic: Yeah. Trent: we're gonna be moving in in April. So I we live in the great state of Washington. So I have to have a fixed mag AR, which is terrible, just so everybody knows. Nic: How do you yeah, how does that even work? Trent: So like to load it, you have to push the pin, break it like crack it open, and then load it from the top. Or Nic: Whoa. Trent: you can have a stripper clip like an old what is it and and yeah. Nic: Yeah. But you still just do it from the top down with w so it's man. I'm I yeah, Trent: And it's Nic: I've I've kind of been out of the loop these past ten years on like the latest in gun laws, ironically. so I have I Trent: Yeah. Nic: you know, I live in Missouri which is about as wild west as it gets with a lot of that stuff. I mean Trent: For sure. Nic: they just don't mess with you. They they let they let the feds Trent: Yeah. Like Nic: regulate everything and but Trent: dark darkstorm industries did a great job building this rifle. I love my rifle, don't get Nic: Okay. Trent: me wrong. and what's really great about it is when I move to a state where there's no issues with like having a fixed mag, I send them my my lower receiver, they send me back one that is that is good to go, which is super great of them. Yeah. That Nic: awesome. Yeah, that's that's great. Trent: it's one of the reasons why I bought that one specifically. so we I can't wait to move for that, but for many other reasons. But so I messaged Nick and I was like, how can I do this? Right. And he's like, reach out to support and then ask them. So I reach out to support and they're like, rent a gun. And I'm like, not what I wanted to hear, but okay. I guess I'm, I guess I'm gonna be renting a rifle, which is fine. No big deal. so the plan is we are gonna be moving in April. So the beginning of next season, I think it starts in like February or something like that. I think we're gonna try to. Nic: Yeah. Trent: I I think Boise is. Towards the beginning of the season, but I or or Idaho's towards the beginning of the season, or there's a skirmish in Boise and we're gonna use that as like a a double trip, right? So we're gonna go, I'm gonna definitely do the skirmish, try to talk my wife into doing it because she wants to compete anyway, and see how it goes. But I'm planning on like, yes, like full diving into this sport because I think it is so fun and so challenging. Cause like I had never been around firearms like in a big capacity at all, right? I had I was very lucky when when I in my twenties, my buddy, he worked well, he was in the Air Force and he worked for DRMO and he worked at the range. So at the end of every fiscal year, they needed to burn rounds and he's like, Come out, we'll just shoot all these rounds. And I was like, I gotta shoot everything, Nic: That's awesome. Trent: which was amazing. so like that was that was really cool. And then when this came about, I was like, I'm gonna go buy firearms and this we're just gonna do it. And so that's what it's been, right? So it's it's been really, really cool. And I'm really excited to to get into this. And everybody that I've talked to, so I've gotten in touch with a lot of tactical games athletes. This community is a tighter community than Nic: Mm-hmm. I was gonna say, yeah, if you haven't gone out to an event yet, I think I know we haven't got the touch on that yet, but yeah, yeah, I think you're gonna be more than pleasantly surprised with the the the the people and the sport definitely, you know, if if the sport wasn't cool enough by itself, the Trent: Right. Nic: the people will will will will win you over quicker than anything. Trent: I am blown away. Like CrossFit is a pretty night, pretty tight community for sure. but this is next level. Like that, like everybody is so willing to help and so willing to talk and like give you all kinds of all kinds of tips and tricks. I'm like, this is this is awesome. I can't wait to get out there and like meet people like you and and a bunch of others in person, right? So that's gonna be super, super cool. I can't I cannot wait for that. other than new products, what does Jackrabbit have going on for the near future? What what what are the goals for next year? Nic: Yeah, man. Get a couple new products out, and then just continue to define what our brand is, build our community. We've we started doing some fun things like working or releasing a workout once a week, just on our social media. Like, you know, we I think we we realized you know, it it kind of the the the product kind of got away from us in a good sense, right? Where for four years we've just just been playing catch up, trying to keep up with orders, keep up with With product and everything and and and now we're we're kinda looking back behind us and realizing we've got this whole community of people who love our product, and and love working out invests and like, okay, how do we c how we start actually connecting with with this with this community that we've kind of in inadvertently started you know, you know, sold product to and kind of created or not created, but but you know, gets get to partner with and and and and so looking for some more creative avenues like that. we're working with some athletes as well, you know, going into the end of this season and and looking forward to next season too, which is which is always exciting for us. yeah and Trent: Yeah, definitely. Nic: then just kinda you know seeing how it goes. you know this is I I always I I've been working full time since I was eighteen. I I love working. I full time worked through college. but a lot of those years when I was working before I graduated was for the majority was for really small businesses, you know, like single owner businesses, small companies and I always saw how much work it was and how much of a struggle it was, you know. I think half those companies I maybe work for are maybe not even, you know, no longer around. and I just always said I'm hey I I'll never I'll never start my own company. I have no desire to own a company Trent: Right. Nic: to and you know and I just like you know I like I said I love working. I can work hard I like designing creating solving problems as a just as an engineer that's like w one of the biggest things that brings me joy as an engineer is you know solve solving problems whether it be creating a you know a new design a new product or fish fixing something in a manufacturing setup or something wh whatever it may be. But kind of stumbling into this, you know, we we just kind of created a product that sold itself. And and again, we've just been keeping Trent: Very true. Nic: up with it. you know, I I have a lot of other, you know, again, I'm I'm new to this. I I don't call I don't really consider myself an entrepreneur or anything like that, but but I am trying to, you know, we're running this thing now. And you know, I would have a lot of people ask me, like, you know, how how do you generate sales, how do you grow sales? And, you know, for the first three years it was like I don't know. They just find us. You know, it's Trent: Yeah, for sure. Nic: it was and we were really blessed by that. you know, I it was it was a i innovative product that sold itself and it was all word of mouth. which was again, I was that it wasn't it wasn't something I necessarily set out to do, it just kinda kinda happened. And so we've just been trying to keep up with that and continue to, you know, serve serve our customers with the best product we can make. you know, we've inadvertently and thankfully built a you know really positive reputation. you know, people they know when they buy our stuff, they're they're buying something that's gonna last, that's gonna hold up, that's gonna be within spec. that you know, the you know they're they're buying a product that's been trusted by the top athletes in our sport for the past four four years. Trent: For sure. Right. Nic: and so, you know, trying to maintain you know, maintain that quality that that, you know, and and and look for new creative ways to help solve problems. I think that's something I'm always gonna you know always gonna be looking to do. just again coming more from an engineering background. yeah we're and I'm not the best salesman. I don't have like a whole campaign strategy on how to, you know, how we're gonna wow someone with w w with something that maybe isn't actually any different but so and so is using it and so it's the new cool thing. I like I don't know how to do any of that and don't really have an appetite for that. you know We we we just my my heart, my intent, and what I enjoy doing is just solving problems with with good products and you know I appreciate it. It's Trent: Yeah. And you and you are doing it. You are crushing it. Like y your product s sells itself for sure. I'm I'm super stoked for you. Nick, is there anything you wanted to add? Nic: man, I don't think so. yeah, I really appreciate Trent: Okay. Nic: you taking the time in. looking forward to seeing you out there next year. And if you got any any any questions Trent: absolutely. I yeah, I appreciate you taking the time. Nic: any you know any questions at all, feel free to reach out and we'll hope you get you set up for next year and even if the questions like, Hey, Trent: Yeah, definitely. Nic: I got this stage document, I'm prepper for these stages or like how would you how would you tackle this or you know, all all the fun stuff. Dialing, you know, Long range questions, any of it, it's all it's all fun. Trent: Yeah, definitely. I I will I will definitely be reaching out for that. so where can people find you and get a hold of you? for Jackrabbit and all that stuff. Nic: Yeah, social media, Jack the Rabbit Plates, Instagram, Facebook, and our website as well. and yeah, that's pretty much it. Trent: Cool. And I'm gonna put all those links in the show notes for everybody so they can click away and have at it. Nick, thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time Nic: Absolutely man. Really appreciate it.