Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Howard Bryant on Pro Football Hall of Fame Debates, Why voters get it WRONG | 02.13

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Howard Bryant on Pro Football Hall of Fame Debates, Why voters get it WRONG | 02.13 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, a wave original.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Beaumont Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: a hater. It is a Hall of Fame Friday with
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Howard Bryant. I guess I need to explain what I've been.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: But first, how, what's going on?
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Hey, man, how we looking?
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Hey, man, we all good, man?
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: All right, so.
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  Speaker 1: The NFL Hall of Fame vote was last week. We
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: got Drew Brees, we got Larry Fitzgerald, we got Adam Vinatieri,
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  Speaker 1: we got Luke Keekly, and we have Roger Craig. And
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  Speaker 1: I am a little bit younger than Howard, but we
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: have a lot of overlap in our sporting experience.
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  Speaker 3: And 1980s football is a fair overlap.
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  Speaker 1: I don't have the particular detailed knowledges of everything, but
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I know enough.
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  Speaker 3: To have a conversation about it.
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  Speaker 1: And I sent Howard a text that said, Roger Craig
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  Speaker 1: ain't no Hall of Famer.
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  Speaker 2: And the phone rang how many seconds later?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Now the phone call comes, what you got against Roger Craig?
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  Speaker 1: And my point simply was, and I think that gets
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: tricky for me because once we get these veteran committees,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: we're just kind of being, to a degree, nice to people. But,
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  Speaker 1: If in the last 30 years, you didn't really get
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: a consensus on this. And he and Craig was not
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: a case like Drew Pearson was like some other players
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  Speaker 1: where every year would be like, so is this going
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  Speaker 1: to be the year? Is this going to be the year?
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  Speaker 1: We hadn't even really been talking about Roger Craig. Like
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: somebody would get cute on the internet and bring him
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: up as an example. And he is the first running
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: back with a thousand yards rushing and receiving in the same.
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  Speaker 2: Year as a guy.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: You think about the 49ers throwing it around all the time,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: but he's a dude that's had seasons with 300 something carries.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: All of that stuff.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: But I didn't even know this was something that we
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: even had on the board was Roger Craig in the
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: hall of fame. And then next thing I know, I
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: bet Sean Alexander mad than a motherfucker right now.
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  Speaker 2: I got MVP.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And, and also he was somebody for me where I
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: was sort of like, why wasn't he in consideration? Because
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: at that time, you know, it's a, it's a conversation
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: about revolution, right? I mean, if you, If you're of
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: that age, and I'm of that age, where you saw
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: the Bill Walsh offense for the first time, it was
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: like watching the 2014 Warriors for the first time. You're like,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: what is this? Oh, you mean you're not going to
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: do a third nine draw play anymore? You mean you're
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: going to throw on first down? I mean, it's a revolution, right?
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: But that revolution doesn't look very sexy right now because
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: everybody does it.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Right. It's like listening to Chuck Berry now.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Like, well, what's the big hoo-ha about this, right?
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: And so Roger Craig begets Marshall Falk, begets Christian McCaffrey, right?
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's the original guy who's actually, oh, a
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: running back that when you throw the ball to him,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: it's not going to hit him in the helmet, right?
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, that he's an actual receiver. And so, you know,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, to me, this conversation and the phone call
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: you and I were having about this opened up two things.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: The first thing, football is just different. Football's Hall of
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Fame is different from all the other Hall of Fames.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Basketball Hall of Fame, you get in the minute you
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: learn how to dribble. Baseball's Hall of Fame is very, very,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: very writer slash stat driven. And then it's score settling driven.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Football's Hall of Fame is this shrouded mystery. It's this
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  Speaker 2: thing where it is. stat-based, but not kind of really
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  Speaker 2: sort of stat-based because you've got that massive division of labor.
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  Speaker 2: But it's also the most non-nostalgic of the Hall of
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  Speaker 2: Fames because there are guys, when you think about modern
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: day football, and the modern day football is the Super
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Bowl era. You can add a couple of years for
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Lombardi before that or Jim Brown, 64. But basically, we're
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: talking about the Super Bowl era. Post-merger football is the
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: modern day football. And the guys who built this game,
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  Speaker 2: the signature guys who built that era, they got no love.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, none.
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  Speaker 2: And so that was really, for me, it was like
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  Speaker 2: when I start thinking about the lanes, football's lanes to
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: entry are very, very different than everybody else's.
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  Speaker 1: There are 22 people on the field every play in football.
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  Speaker 1: They let in like five dudes a year. Like it's a,
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  Speaker 1: it's a tough, tough room. Now like basketball is the
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  Speaker 1: room that's shrouded in the most mystery. We know really
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: next to nothing about the basketball process.
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  Speaker 2: There's no criteria because it's the basketball Hall of Fame,
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  Speaker 2: not the NBA Hall of Fame.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And it's, they'll let anybody in there. Like, Pretty good
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  Speaker 1: is the standard. Like when people start telling me that
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  Speaker 1: somebody is not a basketball Hall of Famer, I could.
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  Speaker 3: And look, I can have that happen for me on
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  Speaker 3: Smith for me with certain people.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 3: For example, for me, Reggie Miller, not a Hall of Famer.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: But in that basketball Hall of Fame.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no.
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  Speaker 3: He's yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. We let him in.
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  Speaker 3: We let him in. Like, I ask you this. You're
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: a Boston guy. Dennis Johnson.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Is Dennis Johnson, like, did you see him as a
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Hall of Famer or just an excellent player?
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: DJ was a Hall of Famer to me. And the
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: reason he was a Hall... Once again, right? There are
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: lanes to basketball that there aren't for football. And Roger
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  Speaker 2: Craig is one of the first guys who crosses lanes.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: And what I mean by lanes is if you were
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  Speaker 2: part of something special, you get Hall of Fame dispensation
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  Speaker 2: for being part of it. Football is so individualistic. Look
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: at the Boston Celtics. Everybody on those rosters are all
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Hall of Famers. All of them. Satch Sanders is in
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  Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame. They're all in the Hall of
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  Speaker 2: Fame because they were part of it.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Casey Jones averaged eight points a game or something like that.
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  Speaker 2: Casey Jones is one of the guys who is one
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  Speaker 2: of those prototypes. The big defensive guard, which is Dennis Johnson.
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  Speaker 2: Those guys... you know, Sidney Moncrief and Paul Presley and
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  Speaker 2: all those types of players, they go back to Oscar
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  Speaker 2: Robertson and Casey Jones, but Casey Jones came before Oscar Robertson.
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  Speaker 2: And so, although Oscar was a far, far better player,
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  Speaker 2: he's an offensive player as well. But what my point is,
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  Speaker 2: is that basketball finds lanes for those types of players.
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  Speaker 2: Basketball will have, there's like three or four lanes for basketball.
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  Speaker 2: Lane number one, you were just a great player. That's
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: lane number one, you balled out. Lane number two, you
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  Speaker 2: were the best at your position. Lane number three, you
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  Speaker 2: were a signature player. You were somebody that was critical
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: to the way people come to the sport. Lane number four,
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  Speaker 2: you were part of something special. You were on six
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  Speaker 2: championship teams. You were on seven championship teams or whatever.
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  Speaker 2: So there are all these different lanes that you get
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  Speaker 2: in basketball. And to swing it all the way back,
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  Speaker 2: Roger Craig is a signature member of a dynasty. And
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: in football, that doesn't seem to count that much. And
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  Speaker 2: it certainly didn't seem to count to you.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, nah, not really.
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  Speaker 1: If you're going to be perfectly honest, I did not.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's what Jersey retirements are for.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Right. Like, I think that there are levels at which
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  Speaker 1: you can credit a lot of these guys that I
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  Speaker 1: think are very, very, very significant honors. Now, to be
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  Speaker 1: fair to Craig on this, and I did not realize
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  Speaker 1: this because I had my years mixed up. he was
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  Speaker 1: the starting running back on three Superbowl teams.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: So I was thinking of him more in the like
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  Speaker 1: Dwight Clark class of that dynasty that was on two
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: of the teams. Cause the only players that were on
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: all four, as I remember Joe Montana, Ronnie Lott, Keena Turner,
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  Speaker 1: Eric Wright. And I think there might be one more guy,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: but it was, I mean, even in that, in the
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: no free agency era, like, There.
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  Speaker 3: Was turnover in between on what all of these were.
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  Speaker 1: I felt like Craig had a career, like he's got
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  Speaker 1: that one year where he was lights out, where he
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  Speaker 1: had 1,500 yards rushing. And the year where he had
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  Speaker 1: the 1,000 and 1,000, it was like 1,000 and 1,000.
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  Speaker 3: It's 1050 and 1060. And then one other 1,000-yard season.
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  Speaker 3: Like if I pull up his page, what do they
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: say in baseball? It doesn't have much black ink.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: The black ink on it. And then also, let's also
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: not forget, that if you're going to analyze football stats,
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  Speaker 2: the difference between a 1,000-yard rusher has not, it has
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  Speaker 2: changed dramatically, but the milestone hasn't. 1,000 yards was a
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  Speaker 2: 14-game 1,000-yard.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: 1,000 yards in a 16-game is 66 yards a game.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 3: It's kind of like the term millionaire.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: That's right.
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  Speaker 1: Right? We use it the same way we did when
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: money costs something different, right? The other thing for me
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  Speaker 1: in talking about him is, there is a big gap
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  Speaker 1: between him and, say, Eric Dickerson.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Right?
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  Speaker 1: When I think of, like, who are the Hall of
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Fame running backs that you associate with the 1980s? Walter
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Payton still gets in, right? He was still very good
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  Speaker 1: for the majority of the 1980s. Marcus Allen. There's a
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  Speaker 1: gap between Marcus Allen and Roger Craig. And so it's like, okay.
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  Speaker 2: Different backs, though, right?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, different backs.
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  Speaker 1: But they're still, even with their stylistic differences, if I'm
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  Speaker 1: telling you to pick.
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  Speaker 2: One, Yes. And so the counter to that, if there's
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  Speaker 2: a counter to that, and I don't think there necessarily
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: is one in your mind, is are there different laws?
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: layers of Hall of Fame? And when I get to,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: and that leads me into baseball, I remember one day,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: and yes, you'll laugh at this, but one day walking
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: into Legends Field during spring training, and here is Mr. October,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Reggie Jackson. I had to be 02, I think. And
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: here's Reggie Jackson. And Reggie's walking in. And I remember
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  Speaker 2: this like it was yesterday. The big dogs, the A-list
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Hall of Famers, they kind of treat the B and
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: C-list Hall of Famers. Once you're in, you're all the
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: same level, but you're not really all the same level.
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  Speaker 2: So Reggie walks in. And Gary Carter, I believe, had
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: just gotten in. I think it was Gary Carter. I
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: have to check that. But I think it was Gary Carter.
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  Speaker 2: And he walks over to Roger. There's Clemens sitting there,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: big Roger Clemens, 6'4, 250, Roger, right? Who, by the way,
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  Speaker 2: at that time, did not even want to be called Roger.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: He wanted to be called Rocket. And so I just
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: love being asked, you know, asking people to call you
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  Speaker 2: by your nickname. That shit's either like, that's either organic
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  Speaker 2: or you got a problem.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And so Reggie walks up. So now here are the
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: two gods sitting there, Reggie and Roger Clemens. And he's like,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Gary Carter. And Roger's like, eh, right?
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  Speaker 3: Who's not even in the Hall of Fame.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: And by the way, and that's the thing is that, oh,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: if we could only like move the clock forward, Roger,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: your destiny is taking a turn. You know what I mean?
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  Speaker 2: This ain't going to end the way you think it's
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: going to end right now, Roger. But at that time,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: he was a no doubter. Right. And he walked around
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: like a no doubter. And so.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: So, yeah. So, yeah. So to me, yeah.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I don't think Roger Craig would put himself in Walter
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Payton category, but that doesn't mean he's not a Hall
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: of Famer.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's interesting.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: It is also interesting because the discussion around him really
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: comes up because of who didn't get in was Bill Belichick.
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Like he comes up because of the Belichick and then
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: the Kraft thing. And I'm sure we'll get to more
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: about that later. But when you start hearing the voters
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: explain why they did it, and it's always interesting when
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the machine learns, which is something I don't think we
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: talk enough about in the Hall of Fame process, because
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: this is the same thing that also happens when the
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: AP poll had effects on things like the BCS, is
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: that the voters no longer looked at their ballot as
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: simply what their opinion was going into the poll. They
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: started thinking their vote out in terms of how it
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: would affect what all the long-run consequences were, right?
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: The machine has now learned, and it kind of changes- Yeah,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: and one other big piece of that, too, is the
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: cyberbullying that comes with it.
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: Right, right.
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  Speaker 1: But it has changed the way— like I say, another thing
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: for people to consider, right? So it has now changed— it
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: is a chemical change to the way things are voted for.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: In this case, a lot of voters explained that they
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: felt like they could vote for Belichick a little bit later—
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: but this is your last chance to vote for Roger Craig.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: And so, hey, you know what? I just kind of
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: feel like voting for Roger Craig, right? And once these
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: votes are very important, but also you have like the
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: swing voter situation where the only vote that really matters
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: is the one that turns it over. And so your
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: vote kind of counts, but not really. So people can
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: do all kinds of weird shit with it and then
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: not realize, oh, but like it's the Eddie Murphy routine
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: about voting for Jesse.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Jackson, right? We're going to vote for Jesse Jackson.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: What do you mean he fucking won, right? It's those
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: same sorts of things.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: And so a big part of why Roger Craig is
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame is the reason a lot
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: of things happen, which is somebody wanted it to be
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: that way. And I think you and I tapped into
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: a big part of why they.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: Wanted it to. And you alluded to it a little
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: bit earlier.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: It's rather surprising how few of those 49ers are in
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Well, that's right. And especially because of the division of
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: labor on which side of the ball.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: And it's changing. And I think it's okay for things
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: to change because the longer you get away from history,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: then the more the game shifts. And the 49ers are very,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: very special. That group is very, very special in San
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Francisco because that's the group that turned them into the
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: 49ers as we see them. The 49ers are not that
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: different from the Patriots in terms of they weren't as
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: bungling as the Patriots, but they were going to lose.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, they were good. They lost to the Cowboys 71.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: That's the one that everyone talks about. They had their moments,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: but they were going to lose. They were the 49ers.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, Joe Montana and Bill Walsh,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: and suddenly they win. And now they're a different team.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: And people look at those foundational championship teams. And you're
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: going to have that conversation when it comes warrior time, right?
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Draymond Green. and Andre Iguodala and Klay Thompson. That's going
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: to be the one is Andre Iguodala. How many members
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: of that team are getting in?
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: And so the thing that comes up with that for me,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: and with the 49ers, and as I run this, if anybody,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: if I get it wrong.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: Then I'm sure somebody in the chat will say it,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: but off the top of my head, and you.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: And I broke this down, really the 81 to 94 run, right?
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: We will throw in the fifth championship, which.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Is- I would actually go to 92 because that's the
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Montana era.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Once you get to 94, that is a different team.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: That team is not the same as the ones before.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Just a similar head coach situation. It's Montana that's in.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Ronnie Lott is in. I think we would put Charles Haley,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: who kind of gets to be Dennis Rodman in football.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: He's part of two different of these dynasties that were
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: in conflict with one another.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: With each other, that's right.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: They're in. Craig is now in.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Is that it? Depending on how you feel about the
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: fullback position, yeah. I mean, Tom Rathman, he's not a
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Hall of Famer.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no. The way we think about Hall
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: of Famers. I'm talking about actually in.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, actually in. Yeah, that's it. That's it.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: They won four Super Bowls in nine years.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Those are the only guys, and we are, for purposes
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: of this discussion, we are not counting Steve Young.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Well, that's right. And he shouldn't be counted at that time.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Because one, he wasn't on the 81 team.
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: But even if he had popped in like Roger Craig did,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: he got in in 94.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: This is not.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: He gets in after the time period that we're talking about.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I'm just hitting it off because I know how these
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: people be acting in the comments.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: That is true. You forgot. He was on the bench,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: but you forgot him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: But no.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: That feels weird to say.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: And I mean, Eddie DiBartolo, if you want to get
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: into the whole putting owners in the Hall of Fame thing.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: That doesn't make sense.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: It does, though. For football? How many Patriots are getting in? Well,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Steelers are very well represented. We counted that out. But
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: how many Cowboys? I mean, we talk about the signature Cowboys.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: The signature Cowboys of the 70s, you made Drew Pearson
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: had to wait forever. Too tall is not in, signature player.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: No.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Took Rayfield right, had to wait forever to get in.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess what I'm saying is it does make sense.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: It is interesting, and this is something we had talked
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: about that I think people lose sight of, at least
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: for me, this is a big thing. I think it
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: is very debatable whether or not Klay Thompson is a
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: basketball Hall of Famer.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's wild. I can throw you an oar, but
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: I ain't joining you on that. I believe that he
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: is a Hall of Famer. only in the context in
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: which he is making the Hall of Fame, right? I don't,
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: I don't, I think that, I don't feel like- Is
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Draymond a Hall of Famer then by that rationale?
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: So Draymond is very interesting because I am more inclined
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: to say that I find him, I find him to
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: be more singular than I find Klay Thompson to be, right?
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: I think Klay Thompson had a somewhat singular ability at
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: a thing where Draymond Green is a one-of-one.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: Player, right?
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: And by the way, go ahead, Bo. And Iguodala, I
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: just do not believe is a Hall of Famer. The
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: real point for me is that I feel like during
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the Warriors run, we would talk about where the Warriors
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: are so good because they have three Hall of Famers
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: and they got Kevin Durant, who's an obvious Hall of Famer.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: And it's like, Well, they're so good because they have
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: four Hall of Famers. And I'm like, no, I think
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: we're working backwards here. We are saying that in order
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: for a team, because if you went and look historically,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: the teams that were champions overwhelmingly had X numbers of
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Hall of Famers. What I think then happens is we
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: then ascribe a Hall of Fame status to players who
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: are on championship teams because our brains say, in order
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: to be a champion, you have to have this many
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Hall of Famers, when in reality it was these teams
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: had this many Hall of Famers, but they're also teams
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: that had three Hall of Famers that weren't champions, right?
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: We say Klay Thompson and Draymond Green have to be
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Hall of Famers, But what we're also saying, and don't
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: realize it, as someone who's made this mistake himself, we're
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: underrating the greatness of Steph Curry, right? Like, did you
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: have to have all those Hall of Famers, or was
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: that guy just so good that he counts as two
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Hall of Famers by himself? There is a very prominent
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: basketball player who tells people when nobody's listening, or when
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: the microphones aren't around, that Michael Jordan's so good, he
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: went into Hall of Fame as Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? One of the things, like
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: I am a voter for two Hall of Fames, two
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Halls of Fame. Well, I was, I get rid of
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: my baseball vote, but I'm an eligible baseball Hall of
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Fame voter and tennis Hall of Fame voter. And football
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: is very different because as part of my baseball criteria,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I believe that you are... There's dominance and longevity. These
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: are the two main lanes for baseball. Football... longevity cannot
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: really be part of it, especially if you're a running back.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: If you're Gail Sayers and you play six years or
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: you're Terrell Davis, those peaks are so high and those
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: injuries come so fast. And then you look at certain guys,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: which is the thing that perplexed me, is that then
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: we penalize some of these guys for longevity in a
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: sport where longevity is not even a luxury. It's a rarity.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: It's a unicorn. Well, you know, Frank Gore is a compiler.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Damn right he's a compiler. You last out there that
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: many years at that position with that much pounding? I mean,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: so I do wonder about how we look at yards
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: when it comes to that individual position. It almost seems
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: like you have to be dominant for your small stretch
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: of time as your main lane instead of having longevity
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: also be a main lane.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Like I think Frank Gore's thing is tricky because he
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: is treated as a compiler, but his biggest problem is
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: in the early portion of his career and running backs
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: are like power pitchers in baseball.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: They, they, they, they really rack it up early.
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Um, He's playing for bad teams.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Playing for bad teams.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: So he actually wasn't in a position to truly compile
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: because they're behind by 10 points in the second half,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: and you can only handle the ball so much. The
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: one time that Frank Gore got 300 carries, he got
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: 1,700 yards. So in reality, he didn't actually get to compile.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: You can say that it's the longevity of it, but...
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: He comes into the league at a time where in
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: our minds, we talk about these things in the context
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: of guys getting 300 carries. And dudes, basically, if you're
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: not Derrick Henry, they don't get 300 carries anymore, right?
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: So in my head, Curtis Martin, I do not envision
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Curtis Martin, nor do I.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Feel like if you look on YouTube and pull up.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Curtis Martin highlight, Curtis Martin is not going to look
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: like a Hall of Famer. And I never felt like
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Curtis Martin while he was playing was a Hall of Famer. However,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: for 10 years, Teams consistently said, you know what our
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: best chance of winning is?
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: Giving the ball.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: To Curtis 300 times. And 300 times a year, he
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I'll take it.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: And who was his coach as well?
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: And kept getting up and kept going.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: That, I feel like for a running back, if somebody
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: could give you the, that's the one place where I'm like, carries?
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: If you tell me you're in the top, however, of carries,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: you might just be a Hall of Famer.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: You might just be a Hall of Famer. And I
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: think too, I mean, The addition of analytics as being part,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: not just part of it, but being the main part
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: of it. Like one of the reasons why the Hall
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: of Fame, why these conversations tend to bore me, unless
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: we're having a good one like this one, is because
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: we've tried to turn this into science. We've tried to
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: turn this into an algebra test. It's a math test. It's,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: you know, one plus one has to equal two. But
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: in the true sense of the Hall of Fame, it doesn't.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: It also lives in the mind and in the imagination,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: which is why you look at Drew Pearson's, but if
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: you saw Drew Pearson play, you're like, of course he's
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: a Hall of Famer. He's one of the signature people
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: of that decade when football became what it is today.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Then you look at his numbers and you're like, was
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: he a third receiver? And the reason is, is because
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: unlike all the other sports, well, Drew Pearson played in
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: an era where you could kill people. Right? Drew Pearson,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: you could actually murder people on the field. I mean,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: you're lucky to get 800 yards out there. Yo, that is.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: The thing about any discussion about, like, I do not believe,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: and I firmly believe this about the NFL or the
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Pro Football Hall of Fame.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: Numbers aren't going to get you in.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Like if you're going to make a statistical case, it's
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: got to.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: Be really overwhelming in one form or another.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Like I have a great statistical case against Jason Witten
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: getting into the Hall of Fame. And but it is
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: based on like relative to his peers at the time.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Like it's a what are we really talking about here
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: sort of situation. Going back and saying that Joe Namath
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: is the most overrated quarterback ever because he had more
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: interceptions than touchdowns is kind of ignoring the way that, A,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: just strategically.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: That's Joe Namath. That's Joe Namath, not Montana. Yeah, Namath.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: But yeah, strategically that the game was played in a
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: much different way. Number two, and I think this is
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: important and we may get to more about this later.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Nobody who was actually there at the time says Joe
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Namath was overrated and shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Everybody who was there at the time, like Wes Unseld
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: averaged something like seven points a game in the NBA.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: It sounds crazy to me that he's in the Hall
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: of Fame. Nobody who was there thinks it was crazy.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: You have to defer in that way to, okay, there
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: were people who were there. You have to defer to that.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: You also have to defer to what you just hit
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: on with some of these efficiency.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: Numbers It was a really violent game, man.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I wish you could show that clip. I wish, just
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: everybody hop on YouTube and look at NFL Today intro 1977.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: You know, and I think my man put a, I
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: think the header he put on the subject was, every
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: play here is a penalty today.
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: Right. Yes.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: It like watching that must be what it would be
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: like if somebody put Amos and Andy on regular television.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Or all in the family.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't do that. Like you used to just
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: be able to do that on TV. There were clotheslines.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: There was the suplex.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Yep. They pick up Terry Bradshaw and crunched him.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: A dude laying on the ground who gets stepped on.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: And please understand, this is the montage that the network
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: and the league have decided is the best vehicle through
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: which to promote the game.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: This wasn't no bootleg going, oh, look at how bad
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: the NFL is. This is like, yes, this is Sunday.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: This is appointment viewing. Like the one where they show...
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: The dude just getting ripped down by his face mask
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: in slow motion.
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Getting his eyes poked out.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: No flag. That wasn't legal at the time.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: And no visor back then. You're getting your eyes poked out.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Yo, everybody wears a cute face mask now in the NFL.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: In the 90s, them joints was cages. Because it was still,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: we were still in that period. Like, I talk about
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: this when Steve Atwater went into the Hall of Fame.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: I was like.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Can they even show a video? There's no way to
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: explain why this dude's in the Hall of Fame.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Penalty. Penalty.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: You were not allowed to do any of those things.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I saw a clip a couple days ago of Ryan
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Clark NFL footage, and I had forgotten what time it
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: was with that guy.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: And a lot of people thought Ryan was a dirty player.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Ryan, he was on his show where he was
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: trying to explain, hey, man, I put people to sleep.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: That was how he was sticking around the NFL. I
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: put people to sleep.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Him and Sean Taylor back there together. Yes.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: There was people whose job it was to do these things.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: And then, as we talked about, where Steve Atwater did
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: that and got to the Hall of Fame, there were
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: guys even more violent than that who were just dirty.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Andre Dirty Waters. Rest in peace. Jack Tatum, who not
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame. And he is on that
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: list of guys where he is so famous and a
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: foundational figure of 1970s football that clearly they were just like,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: we're not going to do it.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: We're not putting you in.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, and think once again, when you think
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: about signatures, how many Raiders are in the Hall of
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Fame from that era? Stabler's not in the Hall of Fame.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: He's in now. Oh, he's in now. Stabler's in. Cliff Branch, Blitnikoff.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Blitnikoff's in.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Branch didn't get in.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: I don't think so.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: And so, I mean, that's what I mean. I mean,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: there are so many of these guys. But once again,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: this is the conversation about the difference. If this was
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: the NBA, all of those guys would be in.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, it could. Branch is in.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I was going to say, I thought Branch
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: got in. Because they are signature players. They are, when
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: you think, and this is what I mean about the imagination.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: And to me, the imagination matters. It's just like when
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: you're doing the MVP and everything too. Is the eye
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: test the whole test?
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: No.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: But, You do want people to buy tickets and you
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: do want people to wear the jerseys and you do
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: want your kids to wear the jersey because then they
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: buy the jersey and then their kids buy the jersey.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: And who are those people who draw you to the jersey?
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: The other piece of it is, too, when you talk
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: about having to be there, whenever I would do my
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Hall of Fame vote, one of the things that I
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: would do is I would call players of that era.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: I would call up Dennis Eckersley and call Reggie and
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Joe Morgan for guys that I didn't see. Or guys
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: that I just wanted some inside information on, you know,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: on what they thought of this guy while playing against him.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: And Reggie, of course, was always my favorite because Reggie
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: is obviously, Reggie's a dominance over longevity guy too. Same. Right?
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Give me, you know, so Reggie's like point number one.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Were you the baddest motherfucker during your time? But you're
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: the guy, right? And that is the question. Did we
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: have to game plan for you? Did we make sure
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: that if we lost, you didn't beat us? That's huge
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: for them in the, in, you know, in the room.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: And I was like, OK, I think that's valuable in
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: terms of me and my Hall of Fame voting when
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: you're thinking about certain people. That's one of the reasons
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: why guys loved Edgar Martinez, who I didn't think was
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: necessarily a Hall of Famer, considering he didn't play defense.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: And also, as much as I hate doing this, I
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: felt like I had to do it in this case,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: is that how can you put his numbers side by
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: side with Albert Bell when Albert Bell didn't make 5%
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: of the ballot his first time in? And so I
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: don't love that sort of, well, if this guy's in,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: then this guy has to be in, because all the
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: circumstances are fairly different. But the one thing that everybody said, everybody, pitchers, hitters, teammates, opponents, coaches,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: you didn't want to face Edgar Martinez. You didn't want
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: to face him. And that carried a lot of weight.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: And I understand, I didn't vote for him, but I
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: understand that's why he got in, because he had the respect.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Not just that he was a nice guy and everybody
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: loved Edgar. It was that when the shit hit and
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: the game was on the line, you did not want
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: him with a guy on second base in a tie game.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basketball has a lot of these examples. Coming up next,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about some of these, and I will ask
• 31:07
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• 31:10
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• 33:27
  Speaker 1: ZipRecruiter.com slash Bomani. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash Bomani.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: All right, we are back with Howard Bryant, and I
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: was thinking as you were talking about that with Edgar Martinez,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: it's kind of where, for me, it's very interesting hearing
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: former players talk about Kobe, where there are criticisms that
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I can make statistically and just, I think, from an
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: honest accounting of watching, where in part personality, in some
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: ways and places he came up a little bit short. However,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: people who play it against him, very few of them
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: say any such thing.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: There is a real value, I think, to what you
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: just pointed out there, which is what these dudes say.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: And sometimes they're wrong, right?
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Sometimes.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: But there is a value no matter what to somebody
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: being like, hey, man, you ain't want none of them problems.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: It's like listening to Gilbert Arenas and those guys over
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: there talk about you play a game against the Sixers
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: and the whole scouting report was Iverson.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: That was it. Well, he makes the whole engine go, right?
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, there is a lot of value to that.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: And I mean, I don't, I mean, By no measure
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: is Kobe Bryant not a Hall of Famer. Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: That's not what I mean. No, I mean, just to
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: be clear, but like what levels of it.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Right. So the way former players talk about Carmelo Anthony
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: is much different than the way the nerds would.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: And the way his team resume would perhaps indicate.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Well, that's right. And that's also because of what the
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: criteria is. I mean, I got a call from one
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: of my boys. I will shout out you, Jeff Scott.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: who was talking to me about Bobby Abreu. Somebody put
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: a clip online about why isn't Bobby Abreu in the
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Hall of Fame? Bobby Abreu is absolutely the modern day
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: analytics-based player. Now, I have not done the Pepsi challenge
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: with him. I haven't called all of his peers and said,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: tell me about Bobby Abreu. But the arguments on him
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: are the numbers there. Yeah, they're okay. I mean, they're good.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: They're not slam dunk Hall of Fame, best of the
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: best of the best. But his real, you know, the
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: real argument on Abreu is his on-base percentage. And that
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: on-base percentage is a conversation that you weren't having for
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Roberto Clemente.
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Right? The on-base OPS, that stuff is a very different
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: conversation now than it was for the previous generation of player.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: And so I'm also thinking, okay, I mean, Bobby Rayo
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: hit 291, 2,400 hits, 2,470, 288 home runs, 1,300 RBIs,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: 400 stolen bases, 1,400 runs. That is not a slam
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: dunk Hall of Famer to me. 60.2 war. I mean,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: I don't really care about war, to be honest. And
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: the reason isn't because I'm an analytics hater. It's simply
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: because if you told me which players had the highest
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: war without giving me their war, it's pretty much the
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: same as the eye test, right? We saw who could
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: play and who couldn't play. And so this, so the
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Hall of Fame standards are changing. And when those standards change,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: do you have to, you know, you have to sort
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: of adjust along with it because the game values different things.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: You know, like I said to Billy Bean one day,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: I was like, I remember texting him. I said, Billy, does,
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: hard hit rate really matter? And he sent me a
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: text back that made me feel like sort of a
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: silly nine-year-old where he's like, it absolutely matters, period. And
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, so 20 years from now, are
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: we going to be judging players by their exit velocity
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: and their hard hit rates as well as the other stats?
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, all of that sounds dreadful to me. But
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: as the game shifts and as the criteria shifts and
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: as the the evaluation shifts, so too does the criteria. Like,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: you know, I talked to my man, Dave Stewart, and
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: he's like, name me a starting pitcher that's getting into
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame.
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Like, CeCe's in, but CeCe still had, CeCe had raw
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Hall of Fame numbers. Still got the 3,000 strikeouts, still
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: got the wins. You know, but, you know, if you
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: got guys winning the Cy Young with 11, 12 wins, like,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: this is, you have to evaluate this position differently as
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: time goes on. The same way if you're Sean Alexander,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: you might be looking at guys going, hmm, really? Because
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: it's just a different sport. Like I saw a chart
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: the other day that was talking about the leading passer
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: for every team. You know, the all-time, not the leading all-time,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: but single season. The number of dudes who threw for
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: 5,000 yards? Staggering. But only one of them did it
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: in the 80s.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Dan Marino.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Dan Marino.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: Dan Marino's the only one who did it in the
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: 20th century.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Of course he is. 5,000? When you can kill people?
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: When you can kill people is so important.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: And neither of his receivers were in the Hall of Fame.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, who were his guys? Who was he throwing to?
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: You know, like I used to make the argument, you know,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: who were Tom Brady's best receivers? Who was Tom Brady's
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: best in-prime wideout? Not slot receiver, not tight end. Best
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: in-prime wideout. It's still Deion Branch. Because Randy Moss was
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: in his 11th year when he went to New England. Yeah.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, he may have been into prime, but it
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: was still prime.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: But it was still legit. I'm saying he's still legit,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: but I'm talking. Imagine having Randy Moss.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: Like 26-year-old Randy Moss.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Come on, man. But who was Dan Marino throwing to?
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that Duper and Clayton weren't great players.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: I'm saying they're not in the Hall of Fame. So
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: the question for me is always, the criteria for these
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: sports are just very, very different. And the way that
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: we look at it is different. And one of the
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: questions that I have for you, even though this is
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: your show, but I will do some interviewing of you,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: is why is that to you? Is our, our, is
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: the football dynamic simply too harsh? Do we have to be,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: you know, should you expect a little bit more leeway
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: when it comes to that signature versus, I mean, okay, if, if, if,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: if you're going to give the quarterback the credit for
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: throwing it. How come you're not giving anybody credit for
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: catching it?
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: I just think that it's so many players in so
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: few slots.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: And it's so much that requires feel. Like, every now
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: and then you look up. Like, I saw this the
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: other day. Like, even Cliff Branch is an interesting example.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: And the Pro Bowl is a much different metric now
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: than it was then because then everybody who got invited.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: To the Pro Bowl went. Yeah, because it was a
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: free vacation to Hawaii.
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: And now, what it means to be in the Pro Bowl,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, Shador Sanders... in a manner of speaking, was.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: A pro bowler.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: Well, they should abolish the pro bowl. Yeah, yeah.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: But using it as, using that metric as, oh, okay,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: this is how good you were.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: Cliff Branch is a four-time pro bowler. That means something
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: different now.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Like, I use that against Matthew Stafford, that he was
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: only a three-time pro bowler. Because I'm like, damn, Kirk
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Cousins went to four.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Like, you know, but back then, four-time pro bowler doesn't
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: mean the same thing.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: But you look up one day and Jimbo Covert Went
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: to three Pro Bowls and now just one year they
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: decided they're going to put him in the Hall of Fame.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: And Richmond Webb is at the house like, hey, I
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: don't know exactly what's going on. It can be weird
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: to tell if there's a line what the line is,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: but I get the idea that the line in football
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: is just going to be really, really high.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: But it's also going to be about feel. Baseball is interesting.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Because baseball's Hall of Fame has largely traffic in absolute
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: raw numbers.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Individual team sports.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Right, at a time where statistical analysis is much more
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: inclined toward rates and percentages. But every now and then,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: we know when these raw numbers, like everybody's got 3,000
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: hits is in, basically.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Certain milestones.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you were never going to convince me that
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: 3,000 hit 500 home run Raphael Palmeiro steroids and that
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: was no Hall of Famer. Never one time in my
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: life did I watch that man play baseball and think
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: I was watching a Hall of Famer.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: Like it used to be that 400 was guaranteed to
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: get you in.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: And then Dave Kingman happened and people were like, hey,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe 400 isn't quite enough.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: I know people, Bo, who say that steroids or no steroids,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Mark McGuire is not a Hall of Famer. I'm like,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: you're out of your mind. I mean, just from a
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: just from the standpoint of signature play. Like, I put
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: that stuff into consideration. Did you put asses in the seats? Like,
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: who came to watch you play? Did people come to
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: see you play? Does that matter?
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, and that's... What about Jose?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: No.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: Now, what's the difference?
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: The difference is that he flamed out too fast. Jose
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: became a character by 92. You know, 80... 88 to 90, Jose,
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: now we're talking.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: You see, that's why McGuire gets to be weird because
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: he flamed out too.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: He had his down years until he got to St. Louis.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: Until somebody got that match. Remember the year.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Before, or the year he got to St.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Louis, he was killing in Oakland too because.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: He had 58. Yeah, 58 home runs.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: Then he lit that fire. He got some kerosene.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Got a little gas. And
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: that might be one of the reasons why people look
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: at him and say, come on, because he did hit
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: 201 one year. And so, I mean, let's not forget
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: the two Oh one year. And, and so, yeah, but
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: I do think that all of these different things and
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: it takes the, I mean, I, I, the hall of
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: fame is extremely important. It's like, it's like some more
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: bullshit that we'll get to, which is the awards. Like
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: there's one sitting right behind you, right? The Emmys and
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: the Oscars and the rest of it. I mean, they're
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: important to the people who win them. They are not
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: necessarily important to the enjoyment of the product. Right. I mean,
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: do you enjoy a movie less because it doesn't win
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Best Picture? Not for me. I don't, which is why,
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: you know, the online stuff is different. But the whole
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: thing is different. And I do think it's important to
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: take into consideration not just the statistics, not just the feel,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: not just the numbers and the time, but also the
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: way we consume it, like the online component. Now you
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: have all these people who used to be able to
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: live in anonymity, Now they have to write think pieces
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: as to here's why I voted for Justin Herbert. I'm
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: the one that didn't put Pedro Martinez on the MVP.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: You know, now you have to justify. And now you have,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: you know, everybody's, well, you know, if you don't do this,
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: then you should have your vote taken away. Well, let's
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: be clear about that. The people who want their vote
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: taken away is from people who want their vote.
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Like this is the argument that I make on baseball.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Where do we get it wrong with the baseball writers? Seriously.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm asking you seriously. The Baseball Writers Association
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: of America, we're really, really, really good. Like, there are
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: very few people, if you take the drugs out of it,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: take Pete Rose out of it, the extenuating sermon, who's
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: not in who's supposed to be in? Most of the time,
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: I would say our success rate is pretty damn high.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: Gary Sheffield's the only one.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Gary Sheffield's associated with Balco.
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: He had 509 home runs. Of course Sheffield's a Hall
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: of Famer.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: Also, they fixed the Andrew Jones error. Now we're all square.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Well, Andrew Jones was another one. But once again, Andrew
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Jones is in some ways is a victim of his
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: own success. You start balling at 19.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: People want to see that. Now we're all square. Now
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: we're all square.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Agreed. But I mean, Al Oliver's got 2,800 hits. Bill
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Buckner's got 2,700 hits. Johnny Damon's got 2,700 hits. Bill Madlock, right? Madlock,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: batting champion, what, four times, right? I mean, so there
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: are guys. But also, let's not forget that you also
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: have to live within your time. And if you didn't
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: live within that time, then you don't understand some of
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: the anger and the feelings and the hard feelings. The
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: 70s get screwed for two major reasons. One, you're coming
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: out of the golden age. All those old time voters
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: who saw Ruth and DiMaggio and Mantle, them old dudes
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: were watching a different sport. Two, labor. Everybody in baseball
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: hates each other. They all fucking hate each other. And
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: they don't get along. And you add labor and drugs
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: to the 70s and the 80s. And a lot of
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: dudes paid that price, you know, because of the hard feelings.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: And so labor and drugs to the 70s is what
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: steroids is to the 90s and early 2000s. Mm-hmm. And
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: you can't escape that human element. Dudes don't, I mean, they,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: and that's the other piece. Oh, well, you know, I mean,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: if you didn't play the game, you shouldn't have a vote.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Those dudes are settling scores in the Veterans Committee worse
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: than us. Well, that bitch spiked me in a 10
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: to 1 game in 1977. Whoa, right? You know what
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: I mean? Like they literally are settling scores from shit
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: that happened in the game.
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: The elephant memories, boy.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: Especially in baseball. And the funny thing about baseball is
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: their recall is unreal. Then you go back and check
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, how did you remember this? Oh, man.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: 3-1 pitch, 1973, man. Chase Stadium, it was raining. And
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: then you go look it up and you're like, wow.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: Right, to the decibel.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Like, I remember talking to Ralph Garr about this.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: And this is a true story when I was working
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: on the Hank Aaron book. Ralph Gar was talking about
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: a road trip about, here's, let me tell you why
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: I respect Henry Aaron so much. And he's telling this
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: story about this hotshot pitcher in San Francisco who's talking
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: all kinds of shit and is completely brash and, you know,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: is the hot new thing. You know, guys, old timers,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I remember him, John the Count Montefusco. And he's pitching
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: for the Giants. And he's like, and Henry was talking about, oh,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: I got something for the count. I got something for
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: the count. I didn't know if he was called the
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: count back then. I looked that stuff up and Gator
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: had the, he had the weekend down. He had the
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: inning down. I was like, why do you remember this
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: 40 years ago? But that's baseball for you. But once again,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: so this idea that you had to play the game
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: in order to know what you were looking at is insulting.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: And it also doesn't take into account the human element
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: of why people do the voting. I mean, OK, I
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: feel bad for him. I really do. But we didn't
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: put Harold Baines in the Hall of Fame. They put
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Harold Baines in the Hall of Fame.
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: We'll also go look at how terribly quite often those
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: guys are when they get to put together teams.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: No, that's exactly.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: The eye for talent is not necessarily like I think
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: they have a great eye for certain things that need
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: to be or should be respected.
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: That if you don't participate at that level. Yeah, they
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: got game, right?
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you're right.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: They come up with a bunch of stuff. I would
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: just throw this one out here because I'm curious. I
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: don't think we've talked about this. Do you think Eli
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Manning is a Hall of Famer?
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: All right, let's do it. I'm going to ask you,
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: all right? By my criteria, I want you to give
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: me your up, down, yes, no. Dominant.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: No.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Longevity.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: Sort of.
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: Signature.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: Signature for his time.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: This is where it gets ambiguous depending on who you are.
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: I say no.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Moment. Yes. It's got two of them. It's got two
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: huge moments.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: And both of them involved a horseshoe and a keister.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's right. And so, I don't know how
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: many of those you think will push you over the edge, but.
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: I think it's okay.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Okay. for you to have a moment and to be
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: great and to be very, very good in your time
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: and to win two Super Bowls over Tom Brady and
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: the dynasty and still not be a Hall of Famer
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: and have that not hurt you.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's why they retire jerseys.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: That's exactly. And in football, it's even worse in some
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: ways because in football, they don't retire jerseys. They retire
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: names because they run out of numbers.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but the Giants, interestingly, they retired Phil Simms' jersey.
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: And they retired Eli Manning's.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: And Eli Manning's, yeah. two quarterbacks, and of course LT.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: But I mean, seriously, when you think about that, I
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: think one thing that we have to do and that
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: we don't do a good job of it, in fact,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: it's getting worse because of the online component. First of all,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: now not only do you have to be a Hall
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: of Famer, but you have to be unanimous if the
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: pitchforks are coming down your street. Anyone that didn't vote
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: for you, what's wrong with you? We're going to kill you.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: You didn't vote for player X. And that the one
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: position that everybody says was devalued is the closer. And
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: the closer happens to be the only unanimous guy, which
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: is Mariano Rivera. And then the other thing that we
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: also have to do, whether it's football, baseball, the rest
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: of the basketball, whatever, is I think we have to
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: be okay with not being a Hall of Famer. I mean,
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame to me, I still like it.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: In baseball, they say the small hall guy. I still
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: believe that that thing should be a really, really exclusive club.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: I think it should be seriously exclusive. That this is
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: where the best of the best of the best, that's
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: where they reside. Some people feel very, very differently. Some
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: people feel like, no, this is where you remember your favorites.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: This is where you remember your signature guys. This is
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: where you remember your Like we talk about eras. This
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: is where you celebrate your eras. It's a very different
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: hall of fame if you're celebrating eras than if you
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: are celebrating the very best of the best of the best.
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: This has been a fun hour, brother.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: For real.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: Well, like 50 minutes, but still a good time. Howard Bryant.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Also, don't forget to check out Kings and Pawns. If
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: you have not checked it out, it is available at
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: fine booksellers. It is a very good book. We did
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: a wonderful event. at the Jackie Robinson Museum. Shout out
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: to everybody who checked it out and came and hung
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: out with us. Hal was star of the show, trying
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: to be all shy, trying to act like he don't
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: like people, looking like you can see the sunshine just
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: wanted to jump all up out of his black ass heart.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: It just all wanted to come out there.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: It was wonderful to be there for him.
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: Oh, man.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: I enjoyed being there with you, especially because what was
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: great about it afterwards was the number of people who
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: watch your show. That was fun. And the number of
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: people who got to, I felt sort of silly. It
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, I only see you when you're on
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: Bomani's show. I'm like, well, I do other things, you know.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: But no, it was great. And thank you for doing it.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: It was a lot of fun.
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: No, no problem.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Thanks to the good folks at the Jackie Robinson Museum
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: for having me out and doing all that. And ladies
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: The Right Time.
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: We do this four times a week.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Ryan Brumley, Hannah, thank you. Behind the scenes, thank you, sir.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Hit the voicemail 323-596-7767. Also, we are taking President's Day off,
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: so we will be back on Tuesday with our second
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: installment of our 1996 in hip hop series with my
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: man DJ Waddy Sparks. Remember, follow the right time. Subscribe, like,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: Are a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: couple of days. Take it easy.