Latest / The Starfish Storytellers / Season 2, Episode 10: Insights and Results Through Networking Success Stories w/ Tom Libby

Transcript

Season 2, Episode 10: Insights and Results Through Networking Success Stories w/ Tom Libby · The Starfish Storytellers

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Welcome to the Starfish Storytellers, the podcast that makes a difference one story
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at a time by bringing storytelling to life.
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So I spent, I spent a good portion of my late teens and early 20s in the restaurant industry.
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I actually went to culinary school for three and a half years.
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I thought I wanted to be a chef.
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I got into restaurants.
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I was doing just fine and about halfway through my restaurant, 10 year, I became, I realized
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I wanted to be in the front of the house.
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So I was, I became a part of the management team in the restaurant.
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At one point at about, I think I was 21 when I first became a general manager of the restaurant,
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making very good money at 21, decided to have a family.
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So my first son was born when I was 21 years old.
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We got married and then I had my second son by the time I was 23.
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And at that point I realized very quickly that the restaurant industry is really not conducive
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of family life.
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Like I felt like, I felt like I was spending, you know, when I was single and I was spending
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80, 85 hours a week at the restaurant, it really wasn't that big a deal.
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And then when I met my wife and, you know, splitting time between the restaurant, my
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wife was fine.
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When I had my first son, I was like, okay, because now I can spend at least every waking
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moment I had with him.
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And the one day off a week that I got, I could spend the whole day with my son.
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But then when I have my second son, I had this like epiphany type thing where I was
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like, this is just not going to work.
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There's just not enough hours in the day where I can split one day off between two of my
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sons.
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What happens if they don't like the same stuff, right?
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And I have to go play baseball with one kid and go to performing arts with the other or
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whatever.
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Right?
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Like I was, I had this, this overwhelming feeling that I was just never going to have
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enough time for my family.
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So I started thinking about other jobs I could do.
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And I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll hint a little bit to my age here because I'm going to tell
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you I found an ad in the newspaper that that was asking for management, caliber people.
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And I read that and I was like, well, I'm a general manager of a restaurant.
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I was running a restaurant with 70 people in it or 60 people is what's 60 people.
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So I was like, I can manage people.
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I've been managing people for the last few years.
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I, I should answer this ad.
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So I answered the ad in the paper and I realized very quickly throughout the interview, I called
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the phone number on the newspaper.
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They said, yeah, sure.
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Come on in for an interview.
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I told them very quick, the phone interviews back then, by the way, were very, very simple.
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It was like, Oh, you answered that ad.
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Did you read the ad?
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Yes.
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Oh, you qualified.
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Yeah.
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Come on in for an interview.
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It was really simple.
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It was not these elaborate, you know, interview processes that we have today.
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So I went into the interview and I realized very quickly that this was not what I thought
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it was.
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They weren't really looking for management people.
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They were looking for certain qualities of people and they were looking for salespeople.
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And the, the first person I actually sat down with about this, this is really five minutes
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into the interview.
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And I said, thank you very much for your time, but I'm not your guy.
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And the woman who was interviewing me said, Oh, that was really quick.
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It's like, why do you say that?
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It's like, you know, have you done some research on the company or like, what was the, and I
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said, no, no, no, I'm not your guy.
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You're looking for salespeople.
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I'm just not willing to lie to people in order to be in business.
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And she was like, interesting.
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So that's your impression of what salespeople do when I went, yeah, isn't that what salespeople
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do?
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They just, they just do whatever they have to do to get a deal.
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Right.
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They'll say anything, do anything.
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I hear stories all the time.
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Like I would, I would, you know, I'd sell my mother for, you know, for this deal or whatever.
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Right.
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Like all kinds of really bad analogies ran through my head and she went, so that's
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not exactly what sales is about.
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She was very, she goes, how about this?
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How about I put you in front of the sales manager at this, at this company that we're
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recruiting for interview with him, tell him what you just said to me.
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And then, and then what, when he responds to you, then you can decide whether or not
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this, this job's right for you because I think it's right for you.
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And I'm telling you, we set this whole thing was all of about six or eight minutes.
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So this entire interview was six or eight minutes.
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And so I went on the actual interview with the sales manager and I, I had this conversation
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with him and I sat down and he's, his first thing to me was I'm looking at your resume
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and I'm a little confused as to why you're applying for this job.
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Like, you know, the sales job, I go, that makes two of us because I told the recruiter
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that I didn't think I was the right fit for you either.
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And he's like, Oh, if you don't think you're the right fit and I don't, I'm certainly not
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sure you're, she goes, why, he goes, why did she send you here?
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And I said, well, when I realized it was a sales job, I said to her that I refused
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to lie to people.
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And the conversation turned very quickly from him.
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It was no longer an interview.
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At that point, it became him trying to understand the perception that people have about sales
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people.
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And when it all became, instead of an interviewer, he became a student in that case.
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And at that hit me really hard that somebody who had been in sales for like 20 years or
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15 years at the time encountered somebody that was so puzzling to him that he just wanted
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to learn more and had nothing to do with the job anymore.
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And by the end of the 45 minutes to an hour that we sat and chatted, he offered me the
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job because in his mind, he wanted people that were willing to solve problems, not that
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willing to sell ice to an Eskimo or sell or talking to dog off of meat wagon or any of
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those other weird cliches that we've come up with about sales.
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So I started my sales career with the opposite of what people talk about with the ABCs of
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sales, right?
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We always hear the ABCs always be closing in like the sales are about competitiveness
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and being number one and making more money and earning.
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It's always been about these very cliche things.
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And he wanted to flip the script a little bit and turn it on its head.
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And he thought that with me, he found the right start.
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Like that was the good starting point of getting people to understand that sales was more about
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understanding your customer, solving a problem.
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And really, you become almost, I don't want to use the word friends, but you become almost
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friends with those customers because it's no longer adversarial.
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It's more quality versus quantity.
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And so we really changed the dynamics of that company.
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And I feel very cool.
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I felt very honored that I was the beginning of that.
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What's even more impressive to me is that now it's almost like if you're a student of sports
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at all, they talk about coaching trees.
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I feel like we have started that in sales where now these tentacles are going out amongst
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really high powered sales professionals that no longer think of the cliches and they're
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always out now starting to solve problems and help customers.
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Your job as a sales person is to help customers, not to sell them products or services or
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whatever that is.
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Hello.
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My name is Leanna Henry and welcome to the Starfish Storytellers.
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I'm the CEO of the Black Dog Group, a Markham and project management firm headquartered on
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the east coast of the US in quaint colonial Bedford, Massachusetts.
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I'm your host and passionate about storytelling.
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I'm actually on a mission to raise up the next generation of storytellers.
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We've named ourselves the Starfish Storytellers after the Starfish Story.
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The moral of the Starfish Story is based on the power of one.
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No matter how big the challenge, each action we take makes a difference and has an impact,
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one step, one starfish or one story at a time.
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Every episode we welcome a new storyteller who will share their story meant to inspire
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and connect with you and we'll break it down and offer tips for any listeners who are ready
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to tell their own stories.
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So thanks for tuning in.
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Now let's get started.
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Today's episode is about insights and results through networking success stories.
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And with me today is my friend Tom Libby.
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Tom has been a sales VP and business development executive for over 20 years with a passion
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for helping small companies with sales management and training across many industries.
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True to his mission, Tom has started several companies that have brought sales, marketing
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and operations specialists together as a resource for his client businesses.
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Expert at creating networking communities, Tom has helped these teams support each other
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as they grow.
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So thank you for being here.
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It's really good to see you and catch up again.
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Yes, my pleasure.
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So we like to get started by having you introduce yourself.
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Probably do a better job than I did.
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So would you mind telling our listeners a little bit about you?
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Yeah, sure.
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So as you heard in the story, I started my sales career.
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Actually, it's a little over 20 years now.
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I'm trying to hide the gray as much as I can, but it doesn't work.
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But I think I was around, I don't know, 24, 25 when I got into sales originally.
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I think the thing that I found the most fun was the speed in which life moved when you
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got into sales.
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Everything was just 100 miles an hour.
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And for a guy like me, who also was very athletic, I played semi pro football for a long time.
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I played for about 10 years.
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I was running and sprinting all the time.
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So the business world to match that and just the constant changes and moving and shaking
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and learning and all that stuff was really good.
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So I ended up getting into sales haphazardly, as you heard in the story this morning, earlier,
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I should say.
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But I also realized very quickly, and I mean really quickly, like within six months I decided,
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I really don't want to just be a salesperson.
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I want to figure out a way to help as many people as possible on both sides of the coin.
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So it was very fast moving.
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I went to my VP of sales at the time.
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I said, how do I become management?
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Like I answered an ad that said management.
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I want to be management.
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How do I do that?
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And the VP of sales was a really old, fun guy.
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I liked him a lot.
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I got along with him well, but it was much, much older than me.
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He was probably just a few years from retirement at the time.
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And he was like, well, Tom, you just got to be the best.
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And I went, oh, so to be a manager, you have to be the number one salesperson.
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And he goes, about sums it up.
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And I was like, got it.
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I can do that.
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So I went out and for the next, you know, six to nine months, I really just killed myself.
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I really, I ended up becoming the rookie of the year.
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I won a bunch of awards, became a sales manager.
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And from that sales management position realized, if I can go above that, and now I can impact
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sales managers who have full sales teams, I'm going to do that.
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Because I just kept creeping up the ladder.
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And I went from just a sales person that had no idea what they were doing to running teams
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of about, there was about 75 sales people working for me at the time that I finally left that
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company, which was only three and a half years.
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So I went from zero to that in three and a half years.
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And once I got there, I was like, I'm not doing that again.
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I'm just going to stay here.
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So I just decided to stay at that level.
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You know, I just kind of moved around to other teams until I decided to go out on my own
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and become a consultant, which just changes the entire ballgame at that point.
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But that's a little bit about me.
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Yeah.
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Maybe we'll talk a little bit about that, the whole consultant role versus being on a
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team because I know that you work with a lot of sort of independent people in the sales
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and marketing world and operations world.
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So it is very different than being on the inside, on corporate.
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So for sure.
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I loved your story.
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The favorite, my favorite part of your story was how you talked about the person that was
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interviewing became sort of the student.
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He wanted to learn from you and that he talked about, it's not just about, I got to sell something.
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It's about helping people solve problems.
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And I think, I mean, I'm sure as you do sales training, that must be sort of the foundation
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for how you work with folks.
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It really truly does because if you think of it from a practicality standpoint, it actually
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makes far more sense, right?
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So if I raised and trained a bunch of salespeople to basically be that stereotypical, do whatever
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it takes, just sell, sell, sell, close, close, close, it doesn't really matter.
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Think about the turnover rate in your customer base that that would create because you're
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going to force feed a sale into somebody who may not be the right fit for your product
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or service.
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And if they're not the right fit, it may work for a quota for a month, like it may make
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you look good for a month.
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But if your turnover rate for your customer base is 50%, then that's telling you that
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you're selling 50% to people that shouldn't be buying from you in the first place because
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you're not really solving their problem.
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You're convincing them that you are the solution when you may or may not be.
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And the reality of it is if you're really focusing in on the people that you can truly
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help and that stickiness or that customer retention rate can creep up into the 80s or
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90s, then now, first of all, your salespeople aren't working as hard.
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Your sale becomes a lot more functional.
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I don't want to say easy because I don't want to lend anybody to think that sales is easy
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because it's really not.
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No, but it's more meaningful.
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It's more meaningful.
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Right.
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And you become a better company because of it, right?
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And you're the trusted advisor for the customer.
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Exactly.
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And the likelihood of that customer now becoming an advocate for you is much higher, right?
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Because let's face it, small business owners, no other small business owners, right?
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So if you do something that really becomes a detriment to their company, they're going
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to tell people, if you do something that's going to be really great for their company,
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they might tell people.
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Right.
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Very clear difference there.
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I don't know if everybody caught that, but if you do something negative, they're going
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to tell people.
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If you do something positive, they might tell people.
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That's the general consensus of business.
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That just happens that way.
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And I think a lot of that comes from my time in the restaurant industry because in the
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restaurant industry, it's even worse.
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If you do something outrageously bad, it's almost the back in the day when I was in the
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business, it was, they were guaranteed to tell 10 people.
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Like you were going to get that 10 people.
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If you did something outstandingly phenomenal, they might tell one or two.
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So I started employing that same kind of mentality into sales.
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Like if you go out of your way and do the right thing by the customer and they're 100%
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happy, they might tell one or two people.
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But if you just really do the wrong thing, sell the wrong product, make a false promise,
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whatever that detriment is, they're guaranteed to tell, now I can't make the same ratio.
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I don't know if they're going to tell 10 people, but they're definitely without a doubt going
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to tell other people.
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Now you may be in one of those few circumstances where the benefit to them telling them is
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that they're not business owners.
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They may go home and vent to their family.
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They may tell their brothers, their cousins, their sisters, whatever.
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It may not be business owners.
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It may not hurt you as much as you think it does, but it does eventually still hurt you
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either way.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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So it is about having that positive experience and making that as positive as possible.
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But what you said was, they might tell business owners, no other business owners, and if they're
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happy, they might tell someone else and that's part of their network.
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Right.
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And we're talking today about networking because you are an expert at networking.
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You build businesses just with the foundation of the importance of networking.
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So I wanted to hear some success stories.
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I thought you would probably have quite a few that you could share.
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So networking success stories are compelling narratives and they really highlight the benefits
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of community and collaboration.
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And they can really be useful for teaching moments as well.
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And a networking success story can recount maybe how you solved the problem.
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It can demonstrate your skills and values.
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But generally speaking, there's always going to be some sort of a nugget in those stories
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that is going to demonstrate what were the gains, what did you get from networking.
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So this is something that has just been sort of at your heart.
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I mean, you were just like, this is so important to you.
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So let me, but it's not simply a story behind it.
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It's almost like a learning process with it too.
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So networking can come in a bunch of different shapes and sizes and forms and whatnot.
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And when I first started the consulting business with my partner, we had what we thought a
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good idea was, what networking is.
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You'd go, we called it shaking hands and kissing babies.
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Like no matter how many networking events you go to, you go out there, you shake hands,
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kiss babies.
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You grow the number of people you know.
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There's ways of like, like, so networking by itself, there's multitudes of these, right?
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So like you, if you are super new at this and you don't really have a lot, you feel
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like you don't have a lot to offer or you feel like other people don't necessarily have
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a lot to offer you.
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The whole shaking hands and kissing babies is okay.
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It's because it's really more about getting out there and being in front of people, just
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passing the word along.
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And I remember the very first time I handed my business card to somebody and he looked
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at it and went, oh, it's like, I recognize that logo.
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And I almost fell down.
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I was like, oh my God, that's so amazing.
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Like somebody actually recognized, like, I didn't even say anything to him yet.
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And he's like, oh yeah, you guys do this.
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And I was like, yeah, you're right.
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I was like, how did you hear about us?
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He's like, oh, blah, blah, blah.
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That in itself does have some power to it, right?
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So I'm not suggesting that's wrong.
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But and what ends up happening in those types of environments is a very referral based network,
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right?
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And I see you at a networking event a few times.
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We have a few conversations.
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I get to know and trust you.
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I bump into somebody else that I think might be a good fit for your service.
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And I make an introduction.
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I was like, so, hey, you know, Jane Doe over here, Leanna, I thought it would be a good
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idea for you guys to meet.
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And I send an email that says, hey, Leanna, Jane does this and hey, Jane Leanna does that.
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I think you guys would have a great conversation.
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You know, thank you so much.
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I look forward to seeing you both again.
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And that's great and that referral based networking is good.
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And there's a lot of good things that can happen from it.
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But I had this epiphany one day that made me think like there was more to it.
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And what happened was I had a client.
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I was doing some sales work with, some sales process improvement work.
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And I uncovered that they had some marketing gaps in their marketing information.
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So I went out to one of my, one of them networking people that I met and I said, I have something
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that might be good for you, but it's already a client of mine.
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So I don't want to do one of those traditional mutual introductions because I don't want
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there to be any ambiguity between us.
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Like I just felt like there were some weird things that could happen.
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I said, so here's what I'd like to do if you're okay with it.
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Other than just make an email mutual introduction, I'd like to schedule a meeting.
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Have you come in with me?
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We can make the introduction at the meeting and then explain to him, the customer, how
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the two of us are going to work together to solve both of these problems.
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And at the time she was like, oh, I've never really done that before.
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I don't, you know, I've worked with other consultants, but it's always been in our
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own little silo and the customer tells us what's going on.
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And I said, that's great, and I understand that that's happened in the past.
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I go, but I felt like that this was different.
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And this was a good example to me of how the whole was greater than the sum of its parts
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from purely business perspective.
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So think of it from like a, if you're in the consulting world and you're thinking about
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billable hours, I'm looking at this going, the customer gets three times the amount of
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work from two people than he would get from one.
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It's greater than the sum of its parts, right?
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Because the outcomes are going to be better if her and I were working together and making
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sure that everything was in sync.
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And we ran our own separate companies, but that didn't matter.
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What we ended up becoming together for and applying the teamwork approach to was the
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customer's goals, not our goals.
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And it ended up becoming, instead of me billing 10 hours a month, I was able to bill 15 hours
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a month instead of her billing $3,000 a month.
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She was able to bill $5,000 a month.
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And the customer ended up getting literally triple the ROI.
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It was like this exponential thing that happened.
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And I went, that was the epiphany moment for me.
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And I went, wait a minute, wait a minute.
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This is incredible.
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Like I don't ever want to be alone in a deal ever again.
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If I can bring a partner with something to the table that I don't do or that does something,
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even if I do do it, and they do it better than I do, it's even fine.
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I'm okay with that.
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The whole premise of it though was that even though we are separate and we own our own companies,
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when we come together into this project, we are going to present to the customer as one
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unified voice.
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We're going to be one.
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And it just raised the bar from this networking referral base.
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We're going to be a part of the same tribe.
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And Liana was going to find that much funnier than everybody else, but that's different.
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We're all part of the same tribe.
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And I'm like, no, but you're really not.
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Now I am.
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I'm creating, I'm really creating partnerships and really rooted in customer outcomes and
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ROI and these things that customers really care about.
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But I wanted them to know that we cared about it as much as they did.
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And the way that I proved that was being selfless to a degree of bringing in people that I wasn't
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worried about them taking money from me.
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Because that was the other part of the consulting world that I found very interesting.
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People were hesitant to give, even to give referrals to people that were in the same
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field as they were because they were worried about losing their own ground and their own
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billable hours.
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And I was not.
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I, because let me just tell you everybody, there's plenty of customers to go around.
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Like if you can find the customer that works with you and loves you, that's all that matters.
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They're going to love you whether you bring somebody in it or not.
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To me, transparency was big.
24:16
I wanted to make it very crystal clear that we were not part of the same company, that
24:20
we were colleagues, that we worked together, that they run their company, I run mine.
24:26
But it was definitely an epiphany moment where I was like, wow, I've never applied the principle
24:32
of the sum, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts until now.
24:38
And it was really powerful for me.
24:41
So I challenge people now, even outside my world, even when like I'm talking to engineers
24:47
and other people that are in the consulting world, biomedical people, and I go, think
24:53
of how much more you can do.
24:54
If your purpose is to do good and you want to do better and you want to build things
24:59
with, and you want to really build relationships with people and it's not about the billable
25:03
hours, then this is the process you really should be taking.
25:06
You should be looking at this from a standpoint of how do I do what's best for the customer,
25:11
even if it's not me, even if it's not me.
25:14
Can I set that customer up for success?
25:19
Because here's what's going to happen.
25:20
If it's not me, and I introduce Leana, and Leana brings in two other people, and I'm
25:25
still excluded from this, but that customer is exponentially happy, and I provided that
25:31
happiness.
25:32
Who do you think the customer is going to call when they get another problem?
25:36
I'm probably going to be, now, again, unless it's directly related to the project that
25:40
they just did, which I would hope that they go back to you and ask you to help them fix
25:45
whatever problem they uncovered.
25:46
But if it's not, and if it's a different kind of problem or a different kind of sales
25:50
problem, they're going to feel comfortable and confident to come to me because they know
25:53
that my ultimate goal is just solving their problem.
25:56
It doesn't have to be me.
25:58
So they feel comfortable and confident that I'm going to give them or point them in the
26:01
right direction.
26:02
It's more about solving their problem and creating relationships than it is about billable
26:07
hours.
26:08
And once you really, truly understand that, I promise you, the billable hours are common.
26:14
I'm not living in poverty.
26:17
I do okay.
26:19
And I'm not wealthy either, but that's by design for now.
26:25
You were talking about, so it's really about partnerships is how you build your network.
26:30
And we are an independent marketing agency.
26:36
And as an agency who is new, I rely heavily on partnerships.
26:46
And we just wrapped on a big tech conference where we were the exclusive marketing partner.
26:56
And for a big event like that, there was a lot of needs.
27:01
There was needs for credentialing.
27:03
There was needs for promo items.
27:05
There was needs for signage.
27:07
There was needs for social media.
27:08
There was needs for photography and videography.
27:11
There was needs for video production.
27:13
And I have a small team, but I really relied on my partners, especially the days that we
27:20
were in Florida at the event, having my photography partners there with me.
27:27
I mean, it was a win-win for everybody.
27:31
The customer, the client got all these images.
27:34
They got all these, because they were videographers as well, videos done.
27:41
And we could divide and conquer.
27:44
You know what I mean?
27:45
Like we could, but it was the same thing that you're talking about.
27:48
I brought them in.
27:51
They went through me.
27:54
And any questions that happened during the event, people came and asked me.
28:01
And I had worked with my partners around promotion and the content we created and who owned that
28:09
and when would it be just dispersed and distributed.
28:15
And so it was important to have that, like you said, like the liaison.
28:20
You're the main point person.
28:24
Think of it like a project manager.
28:26
You're the project manager.
28:29
Everybody else works on the project.
28:31
Exactly.
28:32
Exactly.
28:33
Yes.
28:34
It makes it so much easier for the client because they just have one person they need
28:41
to talk to.
28:43
They list off what their needs are.
28:45
The project manager, because basically it was event marketing program management is
28:52
what it was, goes out and takes care of filling all of those needs.
28:58
And so the client just needs to pay the lump sum or pay the billable hours and then they
29:05
have all of this stuff taken care of and they show up for their event and everything is
29:09
there.
29:10
It's all done.
29:13
So that was a huge win.
29:15
There's a question I was going to ask you.
29:20
Well it was about this, what we're just talking about.
29:24
So you're doing the introductions of these professionals to your clients.
29:31
You're making it easier for your clients to move whatever the project or the initiative
29:37
is forward.
29:41
So there's a real value to these sales and marketing professionals to either be part
29:48
of a bigger community or network.
29:52
So what happens if they're not connected in any way in any sorts of partnerships?
29:59
What is the best way for them to showcase their expertise?
30:02
Are there any sort of collaboration tools or tactics and specific that you think work
30:09
well?
30:11
What would be sort of your advice around sort of that?
30:13
Because you talked about relationships is key.
30:16
What would be your advice around like how do you get your foot in the door?
30:22
That's actually a really tough question to answer.
30:24
I was thinking about that.
30:28
Literally as you're saying the question, I'm starting to like try to prepare my answer.
30:34
Like Jello?
30:35
Yeah, right.
30:36
Because here's the thing.
30:38
Here's the thing.
30:39
I can tell you what some of my pet peeves are.
30:43
That's probably easier to answer.
30:45
I'll explain it like this.
30:47
This is probably the simplest version of this, which is if I meet somebody that tells me
30:51
that they are a social media expert.
30:54
And they say, I'm looking for clients that need help with social media.
30:58
I love social media.
30:59
I'm a social media expert.
31:00
And then I go check out their social media and it's garbage.
31:04
That to me is a red flag.
31:06
If you can't take care of your own social media, why am I going to trust you with my client?
31:12
I want to be able to see.
31:14
Now that being said.
31:15
Define garbage.
31:17
Give a tip.
31:19
Well, for one thing, let's just say no posts, right?
31:22
Or the last time you posted something was three months ago.
31:25
2022.
31:26
Yeah, exactly.
31:28
Or you don't have, because this is business related, we'll just stick with LinkedIn, right?
31:35
So I go to your LinkedIn profile.
31:36
There's no picture or there's no banner picture or there's a picture, but it's, you know,
31:41
and I just met you at a networking event and I could tell that the picture is about 15
31:45
years old, right?
31:47
Okay.
31:48
So it doesn't take a lot of effort to update your picture.
31:51
Now you can make the argument and this is the one, I have had this happen where they
31:56
pushed back because by the way, and again, Leanna knows me personally, so she'll know
32:01
that I'm not lying here.
32:02
I have no problem telling somebody that I'm not doing business with you because you can't,
32:08
I have no problem voicing my opinion on certain things, right?
32:11
He has no problem.
32:14
If you came to me and said, I need social media customers, I went to your social media
32:17
and said it's garbage.
32:18
I go, well, hey, by the way, you're not getting social media customers because your social
32:21
media is garbage.
32:22
Because when you are, even if you're out doing your own business development and you're
32:26
meeting people, they're going to do the same thing I did.
32:28
And why is a small business owner, would I trust you to do my social media if I can look
32:32
and see that you're not doing it for yourself?
32:34
So there's a lot of like these subtle things that happen.
32:38
So to your question is, how do you get in in the first place?
32:41
If I'm talking to those kinds of people that are relatively new to the consulting world,
32:46
build your own house, make sure your house has a very firm foundation, make sure people
32:51
know and understand what you do by looking at you very quickly.
32:54
And they can tell your good at it just by popping on your website or popping in your
32:58
social media.
32:59
And they can see that you're good just by you doing it yourself.
33:02
Because quite honestly, if you're just starting out and you don't have a lot of clients, then
33:07
you should have time to spend on your own stuff.
33:09
Because even the people that are the newest have something of value to bring to the table.
33:15
If you have to be open to that all the time.
33:17
And I think that's a big part of networking.
33:19
Go back to your topic here.
33:22
I think that is a big part of networking too, where it's not just about you going out and
33:26
telling people who you are and what you do.
33:28
It's also about learning.
33:29
It has to be a two-way street.
33:31
It always has to be a two-way street.
33:32
You always have to be willing and open to taking in as much as you put out.
33:37
Yeah.
33:38
Yeah.
33:39
And I think one of the questions or one of the things I was going to tell at the Black
33:43
Dog Group, we tend to network a lot through the chambers.
33:47
And I've learned, back in the day when I had you and I met through when I had the Bill
33:53
Ricker Green newspaper, and I was a member of the Lowell Chamber in Massachusetts.
34:00
And I always went to those events, met people, but always was like, got to do business, got
34:05
to do business, got to do business.
34:06
And so when I started this business, I started networking.
34:10
I started coming through the door with sort of that same mentality, and I was forgetting
34:15
how important the relationships are.
34:17
And that was sort of what they were telling us when we were coming through the door.
34:23
It's like, relax, just meet people.
34:29
Start getting to know people.
34:31
One of the chamber heads, he is forever on us.
34:35
You need to get to more events.
34:36
You need to get to more events.
34:37
You need to get to more events.
34:38
It's like, luxury problem, I'm busy, which is a good thing.
34:43
But yeah, we do need to get to more events.
34:46
And I think what you were talking about, the etiquette too, which is important.
34:50
However, I can be helpful is what I'm looking for in those networking events.
34:54
It's not the other way around.
34:55
So to kind of validate your point, it can't be do business, do business, do business,
35:01
looking for business, looking for business, looking for business.
35:03
It can't be.
35:04
It has to be.
35:06
How do I bring value?
35:07
How do I help in this environment?
35:09
Right?
35:10
Regardless of what environment you're in.
35:11
And it can be a homeowners networking event.
35:15
It could be a sales marketing event.
35:17
It doesn't matter.
35:18
It could be a cultural event.
35:19
If you have the mentality of how can I help, that brings way more value to the table.
35:27
And when you bring value to the table, good things happen.
35:29
And when good things happen, nobody worries about money.
35:33
Everybody worries about good things happening.
35:35
Everybody is happy about, and Leah, I guarantee you can agree with me on this one as well.
35:44
We give away more free information than we ever charge for.
35:47
I'm a content marketing agency.
35:49
Of course I give away free information.
35:51
That's part of the problem.
35:54
But that's your job.
35:55
For me, thinking from a sales perspective, how many times I've sat with people and gave
36:00
them real quality advice on how to handle things or how to move things.
36:05
With no expectation of return.
36:08
I'm not expecting to be a customer.
36:10
What I'm expecting is for them to walk away going, my God, that was really helpful.
36:14
Because the next time they have an issue or if they meet somebody and they say, God,
36:21
two people frustrated about sales, they go, the person says, you really should talk to
36:25
Tom.
36:26
Oh, what's he cost?
36:27
And it doesn't matter.
36:28
Just go talk to him.
36:29
He didn't charge me anything.
36:30
He answered all my questions.
36:32
He spent a good half hour, 45 minutes with me.
36:34
I was able to really work through a couple of problems and it was really helpful.
36:40
I don't care if I have to do that a thousand times to find that one client that's going
36:44
to be a really good long-term partnership style client.
36:49
Because that's more valuable to me than these hit or miss onesie twosies.
36:52
I'm going to build 10 hours and that's not relevant for me.
36:58
Not that I won't take those clients, but this is not what I'm looking for.
37:03
Yeah, no.
37:04
And I think people are going to remember you because of that.
37:09
I was at an event where my partner in life, partner in business and I, Phillip, were talking
37:18
to an attorney and we had seen her at a bunch of the events.
37:21
So we kind of gravitated to go over and talk to her because she was a familiar, friendly
37:24
face.
37:25
And so we were chit-chatting, chit-chatting, chit-chatting.
37:28
And so we were telling her, we came out of corporate, we want to break into small business,
37:36
we need to pivot the messaging, what ideas do you have?
37:42
And she had a bunch of ideas and then she referred us to somebody who was like, I teach
37:46
storytelling and I teach things like elevator pitches, but it's totally different when it's
37:51
you.
37:53
And so she sent us to this specialist who just does elevator pitch.
37:58
Like that's all this man does, wrote books, does classes, creates elevator pitch documents
38:06
that you plug in a couple of words and it spits it out to you.
38:09
And I was like, at first I was a little like, okay, well, I'll check it out.
38:14
And I went and I checked it out.
38:15
I was like, this is amazing.
38:18
This was the best advice.
38:20
We so needed this help and it cost her nothing and it cost us nothing but our time.
38:26
And it was super helpful.
38:28
And I was so thankful that like, okay, okay, I get it.
38:32
I go and I chit-chat with people and you learn something.
38:35
You always find out something new.
38:36
Yeah, for sure.
38:38
Situations.
38:39
So, hugely helpful.
38:42
So you started the company's marketing connect to promote local sales and marketing professionals
38:49
to small businesses to provide business owners with resources.
38:54
You have a very varied and diverse network of sales and marketing professionals in this
39:01
community.
39:02
So, I do have this one question.
39:04
I'm curious about it because, you know, and I think this speaks to like, when you go into
39:10
like, gotta do business, gotta do business instead of relationship.
39:14
Like when the people come together and they have meetings and you, you know, you provide
39:17
all these programs for them because, you know, being an independent person or a freelancer
39:23
that can be lonely sometimes.
39:25
Definitely.
39:26
How do you handle, like, have you ever had to deal with something like competition?
39:31
Like, has anybody that signed on with you ever like asked that?
39:34
Were they ever concerned about that?
39:37
And do you sort of have like, like here are the guidelines for being a member of the community?
39:42
Like how do you handle something like that?
39:46
So I think there's gonna be a theme here because we've said the word so many times.
39:52
But it's, it really is true that it, it's a partnership mentality, right?
39:58
Which means like, if I have three or four or five different social media, quote unquote,
40:03
social media experts and I find all five of them valuable.
40:07
So if a customer comes to me and eating social media, how does, how do I, how do I pick?
40:12
Right?
40:13
Like what, how does that, how do I select?
40:15
So, I, there's, there's basically two modes of thinking here.
40:19
And for me, it depends on the client.
40:21
And remember, it's always about the client outcomes, right?
40:24
So for me, it's the relationship with the client comes first, knowing and understanding
40:32
who they are, what their outcomes need to be, what their requirements are, their personalities
40:37
and how they work, what they, how they, how they expect to be treated, how they expect
40:42
to be handled, can all have influence over which one of the social media people I pick,
40:48
right?
40:49
So, not everybody's the right fit for everybody.
40:52
And you might have somebody, again, like me, who's a little bit straightforward.
40:57
And sometimes I put my own foot in my mouth because I'm just, I don't want to say I'm
41:01
too honest because I don't want to make it sound like I, I'm disingenuous sometimes
41:05
and not others.
41:06
But sometimes the way I word things can be too abrupt or abrasive or I don't know how
41:11
to else to word it.
41:12
So sometimes that can be putting off to people where they, if they want to be handled with
41:16
kid gloves, I might not be the right fit for them.
41:20
So if they're working with me, I know they're okay with somebody just being straightforward
41:25
to the point, give it to them, let them, let them know what's going on.
41:28
So when I look at the social media stable of people that I have, I'm looking for somebody
41:34
like that, right?
41:35
I'm looking.
41:36
So if I have another client that really prefers to be handled with kid gloves, I go to the
41:39
social media state, people and I go, oh, I know that, that, that Melissa is going to
41:45
be, she's super nice and she's one of those, the customer is always right kind of people
41:50
and never, never, but I'm going to introduce them.
41:53
I'm going to bring her in because I know that they're going to get along and I know that
41:57
her outcomes are going to be what the client's looking for because they're going to be more
42:00
geared toward a particular set of goals, right?
42:05
So for me, it's not about competition.
42:07
It really isn't.
42:08
It's more, it's really about the, and the social media people knowing their lane, right?
42:13
Like who, who are you going to do business with?
42:15
Because again, not every social media person wants to do business with a $5 million company.
42:20
Sometimes they prefer doing business with smaller companies.
42:22
I want a million to one to two million because I know that I'm working directly with the
42:27
owner and I don't have sales and marketing professionals in the way and I would rather
42:30
work directly with an owner at five or 10 million.
42:33
You're working maybe with a marketing manager and you want, it's, it's easier for somebody
42:38
who listen, I just want to be creative.
42:40
I don't want to deal with the strategy.
42:41
You deal with the strategy.
42:43
You just tell me what to do.
42:44
And it's like, so there's fits in there, right?
42:47
Now, it's very rare to be quite honest with you.
42:51
It's very rare that I find two people that are literally the perfect fit for the client,
42:56
right?
42:57
There's always like that one thing or like, and, and so in that case, what I'll, I'll
43:02
actually go to both of them and say, I would like you both to meet with the client and
43:06
then I will meet with the client and then I'll let you know which one the client would
43:09
prefer to work with.
43:10
So then it becomes a very true competitive situation where both are good.
43:15
Their rates are close enough to the same.
43:17
It's not going to be a money thing.
43:19
It's really going to be a personality thing where the client feels more comfortable with
43:22
one or the other.
43:23
And fortunately for me, I know all of the people in smart and connect.
43:28
So for me, I, I know I can get along with all of them.
43:31
It's not, it's not about me.
43:32
I eliminate myself from that equation almost all the time, right?
43:37
So, so to answer your question, how do I deal with quote unquote competitive situations?
43:41
I find there aren't a lot of them.
43:44
I really, I really, because we get so, because we are so much in, in, in line with our client
43:52
and it's about, it's not just about partnerships with the sales and marketing professionals,
43:56
it's about partnerships with the client that it makes it very easy for us to know and understand,
44:02
the client, know who they are, know the perfect fit for whoever we bring on, whether it's
44:07
social media marketing, I got email marketing people, I got website design people.
44:11
It doesn't really matter.
44:12
Any one of those marketing disciplines that you're talking about in the newest one, the
44:17
AI driven marketing, and we, that could be a completely different podcast, by the way,
44:22
because I have opinions about that too.
44:23
But anyway, but like, but that's a whole new genre of marketing discipline that we're
44:27
now seeing coming into the market.
44:30
So if somebody is interested in AI driven marketing, I have a couple of people that I
44:35
can just bring in and say, let's, let's see who's the right fit for you.
44:38
So for me, it's never about, it's never about quote unquote competition.
44:42
It's more about outcomes and partnerships.
44:44
Well, I think that, that that what you're saying is the social media people are your
44:50
partners.
44:52
They come in knowing they're your partners.
44:53
And in essence, you're the liaison.
44:55
Like you're, by being sort of the middleman in a good way, you're making it easier for
45:01
them because, you know, you, you, you know, you have two social media management people
45:06
who come to the table and they're both competing without you kind of knowing the client, knowing
45:11
what they need.
45:12
It would be so much harder for them to get business.
45:16
But by partnering with you, they know, you already know, sort of the ins and outs, you're,
45:22
you're going to deal with whatever the clients issues are and like boom.
45:29
Because marketing connected is nationwide.
45:30
We have, we have advisors and consultants all over the country, but for, for here in
45:35
Boston, Massachusetts, where we are, I probably have a hundred people in our, in our world
45:40
that I can tap on the shoulder anytime I want and go meet with them.
45:44
I have another 200 people that are across the country that I can get on a zoom with.
45:49
Well, that is all the time we have for today.
45:52
We could just talk and talk and talk for hours about all of this being sales and marketing
45:58
folks.
45:59
I just really want to thank you for being our guest.
46:01
I, it's just been huge, just like helpful to hearing you.
46:05
I'm like, well, I've gotten so much from this myself.
46:08
So, so just thanks so much for being here.
46:11
I really appreciate it.
46:12
Of course, anytime.
46:13
And to our listeners, whether you hear us locally from the BTV studios in Bedford, Massachusetts
46:19
or across the globe on such podcast channels as Spotify, Apple podcasts or Amazon Prime,
46:25
thanks for listening.
46:26
We hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see you next time.
46:30
Happy storytelling.
46:31
Bye for now.