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TMG: Steph Claire Smith’s Privacy Paradox · Outspoken the Podcast

0:04
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Mums Group you actually want
0:07
Speaker 1: to be a part of. I'm Sophie Torber. And I'm
0:09
Speaker 1: Kate Torber. And coming up on today's show, Steph Clare-Smith's
0:13
Speaker 1: Parenting Podcast Blunder has us reflecting on the blurred line
0:17
Speaker 1: between sharing your experience as a parent and sharing your
0:20
Speaker 1: child's private experience. But first, Soph, how's your week been? Well,
0:24
Speaker 1: I'm a bit nervous because today we have finally ripped
0:27
Speaker 1: the band-aid off. We've dropped the morning nap. And I'm
0:30
Speaker 1: a little bit scared about the repercussions tonight because any
0:33
Speaker 1: time we've trial dropping the morning nap, Luca has woken
0:37
Speaker 1: up at 3am or 4am just really upset. And I
0:41
Speaker 1: think it's been due to overtiredness. So it's a bit
0:44
Speaker 1: of a teething experience. And the thing is, he's been
0:46
Speaker 1: literally sleeping so well. I didn't want to rock the boat,
0:50
Speaker 1: but it's time, I think. It's so hard because before
0:53
Speaker 1: having a baby, I was never someone that was very
0:56
Speaker 1: routine based. And now... if anything in my routine changes
1:00
Speaker 1: in terms of Jack, I get so thrown. So this
1:03
Speaker 1: week we are actually living at my parents' house. They're
1:05
Speaker 1: away in Europe at the moment and our house is
1:08
Speaker 1: being renovated. We're having our old floor redone. So we
1:12
Speaker 1: basically can't get into any of the bedrooms. And even
1:15
Speaker 1: though it's at my parents' house that, you know, I
1:16
Speaker 1: lived there for 25 years, absolutely love the house, love
1:19
Speaker 1: the area. It's just throwing me. Like it's so, so
1:23
Speaker 1: frustrating when you need something and you don't know where
1:26
Speaker 1: it is or like it just makes everything so much
1:29
Speaker 1: more difficult. I feel like it's weird sleeping in your parents'
1:31
Speaker 1: bed as well. Yeah, it is weird going into their
1:33
Speaker 1: room because obviously we had our own bedroom. That's now
1:36
Speaker 1: a train room. So we can't sleep in there. I
1:38
Speaker 1: love how you say obviously for people who don't know,
1:41
Speaker 1: our dad is literally obsessed with model trains and he
1:44
Speaker 1: has converted our bedroom into– His train track, I suppose
1:48
Speaker 1: you'd say. It is chock-a-block full. You can't even get
1:51
Speaker 1: into the room. And then Amy's old bedroom is basically
1:54
Speaker 1: like kind of like a nursery. It's got a couple
1:56
Speaker 1: of cots in there for our boys. Well, thank God
1:58
Speaker 1: you got that because that would have been the most
1:59
Speaker 1: difficult thing, setting up a child's room. So it's good
2:02
Speaker 1: that they've got that there. But yeah, I can see
2:04
Speaker 1: how you're thrown. I personally, if you want to go
2:06
Speaker 1: to an Airbnb, sometimes I feel uncomfortable that this is
2:08
Speaker 1: someone else's space. Yeah. Well, the most difficult part has
2:11
Speaker 1: actually been working out what's going on with our golden retriever.
2:14
Speaker 1: So Rhys had to set up all these fences because
2:17
Speaker 1: we found out that most of the plants in our parents'
2:19
Speaker 1: backyard are poisonous to dogs. So it literally looks like
2:23
Speaker 1: an industrial site. There's these massive metal fences. I hope
2:26
Speaker 1: it doesn't put Rhys off from doing renovations in the
2:29
Speaker 1: future because that's been a bit of an ordeal for
2:31
Speaker 1: you guys. Just before we get into today's topic, we
2:35
Speaker 1: wanted to issue a trigger warning as we touch on
2:38
Speaker 1: themes of suicide. Steph Clare-Smith has been forced to set
2:42
Speaker 1: the record straight on a sensitive story she shared about
2:45
Speaker 1: her son on her parenting podcast, The Kick Bump. While
2:49
Speaker 1: discussing parental preferences with paediatrician and podcaster Billy Garvey, she
2:53
Speaker 1: said this.
2:55
Speaker 2: To be honest, one of the worst things that's come
2:57
Speaker 2: out of Harvey's mouth a few times, which obviously he's
3:00
Speaker 2: just heard somewhere, I don't know if it was TV
3:01
Speaker 2: or kinder or something, but it's really taken Josh back,
3:05
Speaker 2: is that he's, like, wished he was dead.
3:08
Speaker 1: It's like, I can't even.
3:11
Speaker 2: Um, and like, it's, you know, how many times do
3:14
Speaker 2: you hear that and like tell yourself it's not personal? He, um,
3:20
Speaker 2: he feels really safe with me to say that. Um,
3:23
Speaker 2: and I suppose my question would be when things like
3:25
Speaker 2: that are happening, how do you reinforce that you have
3:29
Speaker 2: this unconditional love? Like you can treat me this way
3:32
Speaker 2: or whatever, but I will always love you and I'm
3:33
Speaker 2: always here for you. But not, I feel like there's
3:37
Speaker 2: like a fear maybe, and Josh and I have tried
3:39
Speaker 2: to work this out between us, but there's this fear
3:42
Speaker 2: that we're instilling that he can like treat someone he
3:44
Speaker 2: loves like that or like say those things.
3:46
Speaker 1: And like, I think we just keep forgetting he's five, right?
3:48
Speaker 2: But I think from you and your expertise, like it
3:52
Speaker 2: would be great to understand like in that scenario, how
3:56
Speaker 2: would you show that you are there.
3:58
Speaker 1: And you are like, you're there for them.
4:01
Speaker 2: You love them no matter what, but that's, that hurts
4:05
Speaker 2: my feelings or that's not okay.
4:06
Speaker 1: We don't say that. Like what, what would you do
4:08
Speaker 1: in that moment? As a parent, I found that section
4:12
Speaker 1: of the podcast really confronting to listen to. I had
4:15
Speaker 1: really enjoyed the interview with Billy Garvey up until that point.
4:19
Speaker 1: He spoke so beautifully, particularly about raising sons. That's why
4:23
Speaker 1: I wanted to listen to the podcast in the first
4:25
Speaker 1: place and, you know, a great expert to have on,
4:29
Speaker 1: but it became really apparent that He had misheard Steph
4:32
Speaker 1: and he thought that she had said that her five-year-old
4:35
Speaker 1: son was suicidal. And I have to admit, when I
4:37
Speaker 1: was listening to it in the car, I also thought
4:40
Speaker 1: that that's what she'd said. See, I listened knowing that
4:42
Speaker 1: there had been a misunderstanding. So I actually did understand
4:45
Speaker 1: what she said. And the whole time I was listening
4:47
Speaker 1: to it, I'm like, hang on, why have you not
4:50
Speaker 1: corrected him? Yeah, like when are you going to correct him? Yeah,
4:52
Speaker 1: because she let him speak for 10 minutes about how
4:55
Speaker 1: to deal with the situation. And he spoke so beautifully
4:57
Speaker 1: and eloquently about what to do. And yes, that information
5:01
Speaker 1: would have been really helpful for other listeners, but it
5:03
Speaker 1: wasn't actually the situation that Steph was dealing with. And
5:05
Speaker 1: throughout his response, she kept saying like, and yeah, and
5:09
Speaker 1: at no point did she try and interject to clear
5:11
Speaker 1: things up. So I actually felt a little bit sorry
5:13
Speaker 1: for him because it was almost like he was being
5:15
Speaker 1: led down the garden path, continue the conversation. This was
5:19
Speaker 1: a very long interview. It went for over an hour
5:21
Speaker 1: and this part came up near the end. And when
5:24
Speaker 1: I was listening to the interview, I felt like Steph
5:28
Speaker 1: was very mindful not to interrupt Dr. Billy because he
5:32
Speaker 1: was providing so much great advice. And as an expert,
5:35
Speaker 1: I think that she was really mindful that she didn't
5:37
Speaker 1: want to like jump in because she has been criticized
5:39
Speaker 1: before for interrupting guests on the podcast. She's spoken about
5:43
Speaker 1: having ADHD and that's a bad habit of hers. Yeah,
5:47
Speaker 1: but you would think with such a sensitive topic that
5:49
Speaker 1: you would correct him once he was done. But instead,
5:52
Speaker 1: she actually said like, oh, I have to try out
5:55
Speaker 1: some of those communication techniques that he suggested and sort
5:59
Speaker 1: of was acting as if the situation that he explained
6:02
Speaker 1: was the situation for Harvey. I mean, this is the thing.
6:05
Speaker 1: This is a conversation that's been had on a public platform,
6:08
Speaker 1: a very popular podcast that's going out to thousands of people.
6:11
Speaker 1: You would think it would be important to clear up
6:14
Speaker 1: that conversation. information or remove that section from the podcast. Well,
6:18
Speaker 1: as expected, the conversation confused listeners and Steph was forced
6:22
Speaker 1: to address the misunderstanding the day the episode dropped. So
6:25
Speaker 1: she uploaded quite cryptic statement to her Instagram story saying
6:29
Speaker 1: that she didn't want to speak about the topic at
6:31
Speaker 1: hand on Instagram as it needed context. She went on
6:34
Speaker 1: to confirm that there was a misunderstanding between her and Dr. Garvey,
6:38
Speaker 1: but she didn't correct him as the advice he gave
6:41
Speaker 1: was really important for others. She then added, But I
6:44
Speaker 1: feel the need to clear the air in case anyone
6:46
Speaker 1: close to us becomes rightly concerned about H. He's all
6:50
Speaker 1: good and it's not something he's said about himself. It's
6:53
Speaker 1: something he directed at Josh in a moment of dysregulation
6:55
Speaker 1: and frustration. If it was something he had said about himself,
6:59
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have spoken about it in the way that
7:01
Speaker 1: I did and on the pod. But again, I think
7:03
Speaker 1: I'll keep it in there because it would be an
7:05
Speaker 1: incredibly tough thing to navigate as a parent and And
7:08
Speaker 1: what Billie shared was really valuable. I found it a
7:11
Speaker 1: little bit confusing to say that you're publicly addressing it
7:14
Speaker 1: in case anyone close to you is concerned. If that's
7:16
Speaker 1: the case, wouldn't that be something that you could speak
7:18
Speaker 1: directly with the people close to you about? Yeah, I mean,
7:21
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think that this is actually the reason
7:24
Speaker 1: why she decided to address it. I think that she
7:26
Speaker 1: was probably receiving a lot of direct messages from listeners
7:28
Speaker 1: of the podcast. I found it strange that she decided
7:32
Speaker 1: to address this on Instagram as opposed to the podcast
7:35
Speaker 1: where the error was made? Well, she ended up actually
7:39
Speaker 1: adding a disclaimer into the episode. So just before Dr.
7:43
Speaker 1: Garvey answered the question, she added this to the episode.
7:48
Speaker 3: Hi guys, just jumping in here to flag something before
7:51
Speaker 3: the next part of this chat. I opened up to
7:53
Speaker 3: Billy about something that halves has said to Josh before
7:55
Speaker 3: in the heat of a moment, but I realized halfway
7:57
Speaker 3: through Billy's response that he must have misheard me or
8:00
Speaker 3: that I missaid.
8:02
Speaker 1: What I meant to say.
8:02
Speaker 3: So I just wanted to clear the air prior to
8:05
Speaker 3: you guys hearing it. What I meant to say is
8:07
Speaker 3: that halves has once said, I wish you were dead
8:10
Speaker 3: to Josh. Now, Billy heard this as Harvey saying that
8:14
Speaker 3: he wished that for himself, which isn't the case, but
8:17
Speaker 3: I just felt like the information Billy shared was way
8:20
Speaker 3: too valuable and important.
8:22
Speaker 1: To edit it out. And so I wanted to keep
8:25
Speaker 1: it in the episode.
8:26
Speaker 3: I'm sending all of my love to any parents navigating
8:28
Speaker 3: something like this with their little ones. I can't imagine
8:31
Speaker 3: how tricky that must be. And I hope you find
8:33
Speaker 3: what Billy shared helpful.
8:36
Speaker 1: My first question to you, Sophie, is do you think
8:39
Speaker 1: Steph should have stopped the conversation and corrected Dr.
8:41
Speaker 3: Billy?
8:41
Speaker 1: 100%. I mean, this wasn't a live podcast recording. This
8:45
Speaker 1: wasn't happening in front of an audience. This was happening
8:49
Speaker 1: in their studio between the two of them. Even if
8:52
Speaker 1: she'd interjected and interrupted him, they could have started that
8:55
Speaker 1: whole segment again. That's just what I'm finding difficult to
8:59
Speaker 1: understand because I mean, Dr. Garvey has been on her podcast,
9:03
Speaker 1: I think, four or five times. They opened the episode
9:05
Speaker 1: by saying that. So they clearly have a friendship there.
9:08
Speaker 1: I don't get why she didn't just say something. Yeah,
9:11
Speaker 1: because like all of us have been in those awkward
9:12
Speaker 1: situations where someone misunderstands you and you think, oh, I'll
9:15
Speaker 1: let them finish. But in this instance, Steph needed to
9:19
Speaker 1: stop the conversation and correct him. It was almost like
9:22
Speaker 1: she forgot she was the host of a podcast and
9:25
Speaker 1: one that is actually responsible for making sure the audience
9:28
Speaker 1: aren't left with the wrong impression. particularly about something so
9:31
Speaker 1: sensitive about your own child. I have to admit, when
9:35
Speaker 1: I listened to the episode, it very much gave off
9:38
Speaker 1: the vibe of listening into a private conversation between a
9:41
Speaker 1: patient and a doctor. And as you touched on earlier, Sophie,
9:44
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed the chat because Steph was really vulnerable
9:47
Speaker 1: and she actually broke down several times when she was
9:50
Speaker 1: explaining the parental preference situation that her family is currently
9:54
Speaker 1: dealing with. I almost think she got swept up in
9:57
Speaker 1: the conversation. I think that this happens a lot. a
10:00
Speaker 1: lot though when she interviews experts on the show. It
10:02
Speaker 1: kind of does feel like a private counseling session, which
10:06
Speaker 1: as you say, Kate, as a listener can be interesting.
10:08
Speaker 1: But when you are trying to keep some of your
10:11
Speaker 1: child's life private, sometimes it can feel a little bit inappropriate.
10:15
Speaker 1: And I appreciate that Steph thought it was a useful conversation,
10:18
Speaker 1: particularly for parents who may be going through something similar.
10:23
Speaker 1: But isn't the context more important than usefulness, especially when
10:27
Speaker 1: it's about your own child? Yeah, surely not at the
10:29
Speaker 1: sake of your child and anyone misinterpreting things about their
10:33
Speaker 1: mental health that aren't correct.
10:35
Speaker 3: Yeah.
10:35
Speaker 1: And if you didn't see Steph's Instagram clarification, you could
10:38
Speaker 1: reasonably believe that she was talking about her own five-year-old
10:41
Speaker 1: son being suicidal. And I just don't think the fact
10:45
Speaker 1: that the advice was useful justifies leaving a potentially serious
10:49
Speaker 1: misunderstanding uncorrected. I wonder if Dr. Garvey found out at
10:54
Speaker 1: any point that he had misunderstood her comment or if
10:57
Speaker 1: he saw the Instagram story like us as well, because
11:00
Speaker 1: As a professional, I'm sure he would have preferred to
11:02
Speaker 1: just redo the question again as well. Yeah, well, considering
11:04
Speaker 1: the podcast was discussing suicide and children's mental health, I
11:07
Speaker 1: think the context is really important. And I really don't
11:10
Speaker 1: think that part of the conversation should have gone to
11:13
Speaker 1: air because you've got what was meant to be a
11:15
Speaker 1: story about a child saying something awful to their dad
11:18
Speaker 1: turned into this story about a child expressing suicidal thoughts,
11:21
Speaker 1: like two very different scenarios. Yet the conversation continued for
11:25
Speaker 1: 10 minutes. Also, they're two very private matters.
11:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
11:29
Speaker 1: And this whole situation got me thinking about parenting content
11:32
Speaker 1: and what is the line between sharing your personal experience
11:35
Speaker 1: as a parent and sharing your child's private experience? I mean,
11:38
Speaker 1: we of course have our own parenting podcast and it's
11:41
Speaker 1: something that does actually weigh quite heavy on me. I
11:44
Speaker 1: would hate for my son to be embarrassed or negatively
11:47
Speaker 1: impacted over something I said about him on this podcast.
11:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.
11:50
Speaker 1: And just for a second, in terms of Steph talking
11:53
Speaker 1: about Harvey's parental preference, it probably would have felt more
11:56
Speaker 1: appropriate for Josh to come on the podcast and say
11:58
Speaker 1: how it made him feel to hear Harvey say that
12:01
Speaker 1: as opposed to Steph retelling the story. I mean, obviously
12:03
Speaker 1: it impacted Steph as well. It would be incredibly upsetting
12:06
Speaker 1: to hear your child say that to your partner as well.
12:08
Speaker 1: But it wasn't really her experience to share either. What
12:11
Speaker 1: I grapple with the most is that Harvey is five
12:14
Speaker 1: years old, so he can't meaningfully consent to his parents
12:18
Speaker 1: building this digital archive of his childhood experiences. And obviously
12:22
Speaker 1: there's a spectrum. Like telling a story about maybe how
12:26
Speaker 1: your child pronounces a word in a really cute way
12:28
Speaker 1: That's very different from sharing a story involving a child's
12:32
Speaker 1: emotional distress. And I find it really hard to wrap
12:35
Speaker 1: my head around the fact that Steph is conscious enough
12:38
Speaker 1: about Harvey's privacy that she doesn't let people see his face,
12:41
Speaker 1: yet then goes on to tell these extremely personal stories
12:45
Speaker 1: about her son. And in this instance, a story that
12:47
Speaker 1: actually wasn't factual and allowed it to air to thousands
12:51
Speaker 1: of people. That's the thing. We have spoken a lot
12:53
Speaker 1: on Outspoken about her decision to to stop sharing her
12:56
Speaker 1: son's face. And at the end of the day, I
12:58
Speaker 1: think that you should be able to change your mind,
13:01
Speaker 1: change the way you share about your children online. But
13:04
Speaker 1: I think the thing that just feels weird about it
13:06
Speaker 1: is it doesn't seem to match up. It's interesting to
13:08
Speaker 1: look at the reasons why she initially started concealing his identity.
13:11
Speaker 1: She said it was because she didn't want him to
13:13
Speaker 1: be identifiable when he was out in public without her
13:16
Speaker 1: and for safety concerns and also wanting to respect his privacy.
13:20
Speaker 1: She said that as he's getting older and starting to
13:22
Speaker 1: go to school, she didn't want people bringing up information
13:27
Speaker 1: about him or his parents in the schoolyard to sort
13:30
Speaker 1: of bully him? Personally, I don't think you're keeping your
13:34
Speaker 1: son private if we hear intimate details about his behavior
13:37
Speaker 1: and emotions. And as I said, there's clearly a spectrum,
13:40
Speaker 1: but when you're sharing really vulnerable stories about emotional regulation,
13:46
Speaker 1: it makes you feel really uncomfortable. And I do want
13:48
Speaker 1: to point out, this is obviously Steph's decision. And it's
13:50
Speaker 1: not just about Steph. It's about, you know, this is
13:52
Speaker 1: a decision that so many of us are trying to navigate.
13:56
Speaker 1: you know, in this online world. I mean, I originally
13:59
Speaker 1: shared my son on social media. And then when he
14:01
Speaker 1: turned one, it was something that didn't really feel right anymore.
14:04
Speaker 1: And I think people are well within their rights to
14:07
Speaker 1: make that decision. And yes, we also have this parenting podcast.
14:09
Speaker 1: And to be completely transparent, there have been times when
14:12
Speaker 1: you guys have been like, oh, tell that story about Jack.
14:14
Speaker 1: That's so funny. And I've actually said, no, I actually
14:17
Speaker 1: don't feel comfortable because I'm trying to put myself in
14:20
Speaker 1: his shoes. when he's 15 and he's like, oh, mum,
14:23
Speaker 1: I kind of wish you didn't tell that story about me.
14:24
Speaker 1: And I think that it has dictated in a way
14:27
Speaker 1: the content that we share on this podcast. Yeah, I mean,
14:30
Speaker 1: it's a really hard thing to navigate. And obviously we're
14:33
Speaker 1: the first generation having to do it. For me, I
14:35
Speaker 1: do share images of my son online. And I know
14:39
Speaker 1: that it's in contrast to what you are doing, Kate,
14:41
Speaker 1: and I may decide that I want to start hiding
14:43
Speaker 1: his face at one point. But for me, I really
14:45
Speaker 1: didn't want to erase mother's experiences online because that's what
14:49
Speaker 1: I am seeing happen. And I personally love following along
14:52
Speaker 1: other mothers' journeys and feeling like I'm in the trenches
14:57
Speaker 1: with them. Yeah, but I think there's a lot of
14:59
Speaker 1: content creators in the motherhood space that don't show their kids'
15:02
Speaker 1: faces and still show the true experience of motherhood really well.
15:07
Speaker 1: I'm going to be really honest here. And one of
15:09
Speaker 1: the reasons why I never wanted to do the whole
15:10
Speaker 1: emoji thing is because I sometimes think it looks wanky.
15:15
Speaker 1: Because sometimes I think like when people who don't have
15:18
Speaker 1: much of a following do it, you're sort of like,
15:19
Speaker 1: who do you think you are? You know what I mean?
15:21
Speaker 1: Like if someone who's got like a hundred followers, you're
15:23
Speaker 1: sort of like, it's sort of like something that celebrities
15:26
Speaker 1: seem to do. And I never wanted anyone to be like,
15:29
Speaker 1: who does she think she is? Yeah, I totally get that.
15:31
Speaker 1: And I found it really difficult because when Jack turned two,
15:35
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'd love to put up a
15:36
Speaker 1: post for his birthday. And then I'm like, but I
15:38
Speaker 1: don't want to be some wanker. And it's just a
15:40
Speaker 1: picture of me holding a child with a star on
15:43
Speaker 1: his face. next door birthday cake. And then I'm like, well,
15:45
Speaker 1: who am I actually posting it for if I don't
15:47
Speaker 1: feel comfortable sharing this image online? Like, is it just
15:50
Speaker 1: for me to be like, oh, look at me as
15:53
Speaker 1: a mum. But also it's hard not to share about
15:54
Speaker 1: your kids because they are literally your whole world and
15:56
Speaker 1: your whole life. And- You know, for Steph, she's obviously
16:00
Speaker 1: made a career of sharing on social media. So I
16:03
Speaker 1: think it is really difficult for her to just shut
16:05
Speaker 1: off from it all. But there is a little bit
16:07
Speaker 1: of a hypocrisy of concealing your child's face, but then
16:11
Speaker 1: opening up about all their most intimate thoughts and moments. Yeah,
16:14
Speaker 1: and it's interesting to ponder, like, does hiding your child's
16:18
Speaker 1: face actually protect their privacy if you're still telling the
16:22
Speaker 1: internet all these really personal stories about them? And personally,
16:24
Speaker 1: I would say no. I mean, from a personal perspective,
16:29
Speaker 1: I would have more of a problem with my parents
16:32
Speaker 1: sharing personal stories about me that were embarrassing or put
16:35
Speaker 1: me in a real vulnerable situation than whether my face
16:39
Speaker 1: was shown on the internet when I was five. Yeah,
16:41
Speaker 1: I think also, particularly when it comes to some of
16:43
Speaker 1: these stories, because these stories are things that you would
16:46
Speaker 1: only share with close family members or your absolute best friends. Like,
16:50
Speaker 1: I don't think that these are conversations you'd have with
16:52
Speaker 1: your neighbour next door. It's really difficult though, because... I
16:56
Speaker 1: understand Steph's content helps a lot of mums out there
16:58
Speaker 1: for being seen. And it's so tricky because I suppose
17:02
Speaker 1: it just comes down to the individual about, well, you know,
17:05
Speaker 1: what's your gut feel? Is sharing this very vulnerable personal
17:09
Speaker 1: story about my child worth helping others? But at the
17:14
Speaker 1: same time, maybe when they're 15 and they understand that
17:16
Speaker 1: that story's out there, upsetting them and possibly fracturing your
17:20
Speaker 1: relationship with them. It's really bad because you can't take
17:22
Speaker 1: it back, can you? Because Harvey is going to live
17:24
Speaker 1: with a lot of these moments being so public. And
17:28
Speaker 1: these are comments that he's sharing in his home as
17:31
Speaker 1: a five-year-old. I couldn't even imagine things that I've said
17:34
Speaker 1: being repeated on a public platform that I then have
17:37
Speaker 1: to have the repercussions of years down the track. I
17:40
Speaker 1: feel for Steph though, because she has been prolific online
17:44
Speaker 1: since really the beginning of Instagram. She was one of
17:46
Speaker 1: Australia's most followed influencers. I mean, she's much more than
17:49
Speaker 1: an influencer now. And for her, she's had to really
17:53
Speaker 1: adapt and keep up and make big decisions on how
17:57
Speaker 1: she wants to show up online. Obviously, she used to
17:59
Speaker 1: share a lot of bikini content and then it's become
18:01
Speaker 1: mothering content. I think she's trying to do her best,
18:04
Speaker 1: but I think she needs more guidance. It's interesting because
18:07
Speaker 1: the kick bump and the kick pod are moving over
18:09
Speaker 1: to shameless in the coming weeks. And I'd be very
18:12
Speaker 1: interested to see how they would have managed that situation.
18:15
Speaker 1: I think that that segment would have been pulled instantly.
18:18
Speaker 1: I appreciate that we're all learning how to operate online.
18:23
Speaker 1: And it's still very much in its infancy, like how
18:25
Speaker 1: we're navigating, you know, what we share of our children online.
18:27
Speaker 1: That's only a conversation that our generation is having. It's
18:31
Speaker 1: not something our parents had to deal with. I totally
18:33
Speaker 1: get that we're all trying to operate on the internet
18:35
Speaker 1: whilst it's very much in its infancy. Like our parents
18:38
Speaker 1: didn't have to deal with, oh, do I share my
18:41
Speaker 1: child's face online? Do I not? Like we're the first
18:44
Speaker 1: generation dealing with this sort of stuff. So no one
18:46
Speaker 1: is perfect and everyone is learning and adapting as they go.
18:49
Speaker 1: And as you said, I think people should have space
18:52
Speaker 1: to change their mind or make different decisions. But in
18:56
Speaker 1: this case, as you touched on, Steph has been in
19:00
Speaker 1: this industry for 10 plus years She's had a podcast for,
19:04
Speaker 1: I think, six or seven years. This interview wasn't live.
19:09
Speaker 1: There was time for it to be edited. That's the
19:12
Speaker 1: beauty of podcasts. You can go back, listen to it,
19:15
Speaker 1: edit it. I'm just very surprised that this wasn't picked
19:18
Speaker 1: up from not just Steph, but anyone in her team.
19:22
Speaker 1: This was one of the last episodes shared by their
19:24
Speaker 1: current network before they made the change to Shameless. So maybe...
19:28
Speaker 1: there was a bit of disconnect happening I mean you
19:30
Speaker 1: know these are last episodes whatever was sort of the
19:33
Speaker 1: vibe who really knows but ultimately I just feel sad
19:36
Speaker 1: for this five-year-old boy I feel like I know way
19:38
Speaker 1: too much about his life and his personal experiences and
19:42
Speaker 1: it will be very interesting to see in you know
19:46
Speaker 1: 10 years time how he feels about all this information
19:49
Speaker 1: being out there online about him. The tough thing is
19:51
Speaker 1: that you almost feel like some of these podcasters are
19:55
Speaker 1: absolutely mining their lives for content because every week there's
19:58
Speaker 1: a new episode to come out. And it's something that
20:00
Speaker 1: we have to be very mindful of. We produce a
20:02
Speaker 1: lot of content. And I mean, I think the thing
20:05
Speaker 1: that I found most difficult is this story was coming
20:07
Speaker 1: off the back of a couple of weeks ago, Steph
20:09
Speaker 1: sharing about not wanting to hug her son and feeling
20:12
Speaker 1: frustrated that he wanted to constantly be touching her and
20:16
Speaker 1: in her space. And to be fair, very normal feelings
20:19
Speaker 1: that mums have every day about being overstimulated and being
20:22
Speaker 1: touched out. But it's almost like she's built this case
20:27
Speaker 1: online about her son and you know, when you're only
20:31
Speaker 1: talking about the negative side of motherhood. And again, like
20:35
Speaker 1: that was something that when we first launched this podcast,
20:37
Speaker 1: people were like, oh, I'm a bit sad that you're
20:40
Speaker 1: not sharing more positive experiences. And, you know, like it
20:44
Speaker 1: makes you reflect because sometimes you're like, oh, I don't
20:47
Speaker 1: want to brag about my child or, you know, it's
20:51
Speaker 1: easier sometimes to connect on the negatives with other parents
20:53
Speaker 1: who are in the trenches. And for me, even just
20:58
Speaker 1: putting together this topic has made me really reflect on, well,
21:00
Speaker 1: you've got to think about what you want to share
21:03
Speaker 1: online because it stays online for so long. Yeah, but
21:06
Speaker 1: I think the difference is when you're sharing about the
21:08
Speaker 1: newborn trenches, your child doesn't yet have a personality. They
21:11
Speaker 1: can't talk to you. You're very much sharing how your
21:14
Speaker 1: life's changed from your eyes. It's not about them. It's
21:17
Speaker 1: about your lack of freedom and autonomy. Yeah, that's where
21:21
Speaker 1: I think it feels quite different to me. And, you know,
21:24
Speaker 1: the child's not having tantrums. I mean, they're literally a potato.
21:28
Speaker 1: So you're talking about your own experience in that right there.
21:32
Speaker 1: The interesting thing is there'd be a lot of creators
21:34
Speaker 1: who are like, oh, I'm not going to share my
21:36
Speaker 1: child having a tantrum on social media. Like that's very unethical.
21:40
Speaker 1: But then we'll go and share like really personal details
21:43
Speaker 1: like this. Recently, we spoke about how Martha Kalafatidis received
21:48
Speaker 1: some criticism for including a snippet of her yelling at
21:52
Speaker 1: her son and telling him off. And I personally feel
21:55
Speaker 1: more comfortable seeing content like that because she's putting her
21:58
Speaker 1: behavior on display. She's not putting her child's behavior on display.
22:00
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of parents related to that
22:02
Speaker 1: and thought, well, there's been moments where I've lost my
22:04
Speaker 1: shit at my child. And it's relatable because you're not
22:06
Speaker 1: always perfect. You're not always on. I agree with you
22:09
Speaker 1: to an extent. Like it definitely put the spotlight on
22:12
Speaker 1: her and how she reacted in that situation, which I
22:15
Speaker 1: think is very different to you setting up a camera
22:19
Speaker 1: and filming your child in a vulnerable moment where they're
22:21
Speaker 1: having a tantrum. Like there's so many creators out there
22:24
Speaker 1: that I've seen, like it's almost like they bait their
22:26
Speaker 1: children into having a tantrum. I think it was a
22:28
Speaker 1: few weeks ago we spoke about how I think a
22:31
Speaker 1: kid was asking his mum for a biscuit or something
22:34
Speaker 1: and then she filmed herself eating it just to piss
22:36
Speaker 1: him off and see how he would react. That's just
22:39
Speaker 1: so wrong to me. I'm really intrigued to see what
22:42
Speaker 1: the mums group listeners think on this one because I
22:44
Speaker 1: don't think it's black and white. I think that we
22:47
Speaker 1: are all a little bit confused about what we should
22:49
Speaker 1: and shouldn't be sharing online and I think it's something
22:52
Speaker 1: that Everyone's just navigating together at the moment. Let's get
22:56
Speaker 1: into our recommendations. And we've all sat down and told
22:58
Speaker 1: ourselves that we can't talk about Christmas too early. OG
23:01
Speaker 1: listeners of the podcast will know we are obsessed with Christmas.
23:06
Speaker 1: I just can't stop anymore. I just can't hold it
23:08
Speaker 1: back anymore. Look, it's the end of September. I can
23:09
Speaker 1: start talking about it. We're in the burr months, as
23:11
Speaker 1: everyone is saying on TikTok. So I think that is
23:13
Speaker 1: a green light. Now, my recommendation is Christmas-based. I am
23:17
Speaker 1: already thinking about what I'm going to put in my
23:20
Speaker 1: son's December 1st box. think that's actually quite a controversial thing.
23:24
Speaker 1: There seem to be two camps of people. Some people
23:28
Speaker 1: really love the whole Easter boxes, Christmas boxes going all out,
23:32
Speaker 1: and other people think it's ridiculous. I'm obviously team going
23:35
Speaker 1: all out. Yeah, because a lot of people use Father
23:38
Speaker 1: Christmas as a bargaining tool during December saying, well, you're
23:42
Speaker 1: not going to get this from Father Christmas if you
23:44
Speaker 1: behave in this way. And they think, well, if you
23:46
Speaker 1: provide your child with a whole bunch of gifts at
23:48
Speaker 1: the start of the month, They just know that they're
23:51
Speaker 1: going to be spoiled throughout. But the gifts at the
23:53
Speaker 1: start of the month set you up for December. That's
23:55
Speaker 1: why it's the December 1st box. So for me, I'm like, okay, well,
23:58
Speaker 1: I want to get a Christmas book because there's no
24:00
Speaker 1: point getting a Christmas book on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day.
24:03
Speaker 1: You want to enjoy it in the lead up. And
24:05
Speaker 1: there's no point getting Christmas activities and Christmas crafts to
24:08
Speaker 1: do at the end of Christmas, is there? Well, same
24:10
Speaker 1: with Christmas pajamas and slippers and those sorts of things.
24:13
Speaker 1: They are things that you want to enjoy in December.
24:16
Speaker 1: I was just so overwhelmed last year that all I
24:19
Speaker 1: could manage to do was order a December 1st logo
24:24
Speaker 1: thing to stick on a box. I ordered an Ikea box,
24:26
Speaker 1: which I had to fucking make. I had to get
24:28
Speaker 1: my husband to help me screw it all together. It's
24:29
Speaker 1: not hard though. Well, I found it quite hard. I
24:31
Speaker 1: did one for Luca and my dog Archie and I
24:34
Speaker 1: sourced items, but I definitely didn't have it done by December.
24:37
Speaker 1: And I ended up just sort of willy nilly, just
24:40
Speaker 1: giving them stuff randomly. Like I didn't do the whole
24:42
Speaker 1: presenting of the box. I feel like he was too
24:45
Speaker 1: young to get it. So this year I'm all in. Like,
24:47
Speaker 1: I just want to get it right, have it finished
24:49
Speaker 1: by December 1st. That's where my recommendation comes in. For
24:53
Speaker 1: anyone that likes doing this sort of stuff, no pressure
24:54
Speaker 1: if you don't. This is for the mums that want
24:56
Speaker 1: to do it. Get the stuff early. Like, start putting
25:00
Speaker 1: your orders in now because if you want matching Christmas
25:02
Speaker 1: pyjamas for you and your family, If you wait for December,
25:05
Speaker 1: they're all going to be sold out. I saw a
25:07
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago that Kmart was actually doing a
25:10
Speaker 1: pre-order on Christmas pyjamas. That's what a hot commodity these
25:12
Speaker 1: items are. I just find it ridiculous though, because everyone
25:15
Speaker 1: wants to get their hands on these things and then
25:17
Speaker 1: they sell out October. You know what I mean? Like,
25:19
Speaker 1: why don't they just have a second release? Because they
25:22
Speaker 1: don't want to be left with all the stock. I
25:24
Speaker 1: am hanging out to see Cotton On's Christmas pyjamas. They
25:27
Speaker 1: are yet to release them. They usually do a campaign
25:29
Speaker 1: with an influencer family. Do you have any predictions on
25:31
Speaker 1: who that could be? We've had- Last year it was
25:34
Speaker 1: Martha Califatidis' family and the year before it was Indy Clinton's.
25:37
Speaker 1: Maybe they're not going to have another family because I
25:39
Speaker 1: think Martha Califatidis' line didn't do well. They weren't nice. No.
25:43
Speaker 1: I loved Indy Clinton's one. I actually ended up buying
25:45
Speaker 1: Jack two sizes and then Rhys and I obviously just
25:48
Speaker 1: one pair so we could all wear them for two years.
25:50
Speaker 1: But now it's just Rhys and I that have the
25:52
Speaker 1: PJs and Jack's are too small. So I need a
25:55
Speaker 1: new set. You know what? I bought those Indy Clinton
25:57
Speaker 1: ones too and I loved them that year but they
25:59
Speaker 1: didn't wash well.
26:00
Speaker 2: Really?
26:00
Speaker 1: Mine are so good. Yeah, mine... Again, maybe it's down
26:03
Speaker 1: to me. I've heard good things about Peter Alexander's Christmas line.
26:06
Speaker 1: My sister-in-law bought them last year and the tartan ones.
26:10
Speaker 1: And apparently they're like buttery soft. Like I felt them.
26:13
Speaker 1: They were so nice. Peter Alexander can be hit and
26:16
Speaker 1: miss for me. Like you have to actually go in
26:17
Speaker 1: store and feel the material because there's some pajamas that
26:20
Speaker 1: are beautiful material and then others that feel like scratchy.
26:24
Speaker 1: I'm very sensitive to those sorts of things. I'm really
26:27
Speaker 1: excited for Christmas though this year because I mean, I
26:29
Speaker 1: love Christmas, but last year, Amy and I were talking
26:32
Speaker 1: about this and we said that we've almost got a
26:33
Speaker 1: bit of PTSD from Christmas Day last year just because
26:36
Speaker 1: it was such a big day with babies. And now
26:38
Speaker 1: we've got toddlers. I'm sure it's going to be just
26:40
Speaker 1: as exhausting, but I think it's going to be more
26:42
Speaker 1: rewarding because they can actually open the presents and be
26:45
Speaker 1: excited and Like they don't get it yet, but I
26:48
Speaker 1: feel like they get it a bit more than being
26:49
Speaker 1: these potatoes who can't really do much. Yeah, it's so
26:52
Speaker 1: exciting when they're a little bit older and they seem
26:54
Speaker 1: to start grasping a little bit more. Well, we could
26:57
Speaker 1: talk about Christmas, I think, for probably an hour longer,
26:59
Speaker 1: but we will wrap it up there. This podcast was
27:02
Speaker 1: recorded on the traditional land of the Kaurna people of
27:05
Speaker 1: the Adelaide Plains. We pay respect to elders past and present.