Latest / The BEYOND Podcast / Mark Wright: Life After The Apprentice and a Ten Million Exit

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Mark Wright: Life After The Apprentice and a Ten Million Exit · The BEYOND Podcast

• 0:00
  Unknown: you won BBC The Apprentice I think I I won it almost easily I said hi my name is Mark Ry and
• 0:06
  I'm the winner of the 2014 apprentice and she was like she just laughed anyway on the night
• 0:13
  that I won the show the lady from the reception came in to the your HED show and she said do you
• 0:19
  remember me I'm the lady from reception and you said Your name's Mark R and you're going to win
• 0:23
  the show and you want it what are you afraid of in life are you running from anything [Music]
• 0:37
  I'm Alexandre King and I'm the host of Beyond The Boardroom podcast in this episode we look
• 0:42
  at what happened after Mark won The Apprentice how much help did Mark actually get what actually
• 0:49
  happened and why did he land up selling his business and walking away tune [Music]
• 0:57
  in so you go in you then win 250,000 investment how do you feel it felt like a madeup fairy tale
• 1:11
  sort of moment it was like all my family was there and the sort of there was so much happening and
• 1:19
  uh you know I my social media following went through like went up hundreds of thousands in
• 1:25
  one day people on the street were asking me for selfies I mean you you you you'll know this it's
• 1:31
  just I went from being a regular person that's backpacking in the UK to like everyone asking
• 1:38
  for photos hundreds of thousands of people on social media um people wanting me to pay me
• 1:44
  to go here and do this and it was just so much it was too much I couldn't um process it at the time
• 1:52
  I probably haven't even processed it to to this day it was amazing it was a once- in A- lifetime
• 2:00
  incredible enjoyable experience and I I I'll look back on it when I'm sitting in a nursing home and
• 2:07
  I think no matter what happens in my life before that point or or to the day I die that will be
• 2:13
  one of the things I think about on my death it's a moment of elation of complete ecstasy must be
• 2:21
  so you then have Lord sugar as a business partner you're one year in you're turning over 1.7 million
• 2:28
  you've got over 30 members of sta you've got 230 odd clients that's a lot of clients by the way to
• 2:34
  cope I mean I know a thing or two about digital marketing companies agencies such as such as the
• 2:38
  one you were running my husband runs the same and it's like 230 clients so how are you coping
• 2:46
  with the pressure and then you've got Lord sugar and his accounting team and you got meetings like
• 2:50
  how are you even surviving not not well not well I made a lot of mistakes in the first two years
• 2:57
  the first three years particularly uh my main mistakes being exactly what you just highlighted
• 3:03
  I I got way too many staff on low salaries so the quality of the employee was was was not fantastic
• 3:12
  and that caused its own issues uh we got way too many customers on low retainers on on small
• 3:19
  budgets so it sounds great to say 230 customers not if they're all paying A1 pound each that's
• 3:25
  that's terrible so the numbers and it all sounds great on paper there was some issues like the old
• 3:31
  duck you know smooth on the surface and the legs were going crazy underneath and if you looked at
• 3:36
  my agency when I sold it we had like I think we had like 43 customers uh 45 customers but they
• 3:45
  were enormous yeah and we had you know uh not many more staff than than the numbers you read out okay
• 3:52
  there quite a few more but it was a long time on big bories and you know it was just working more
• 3:58
  harmoniously um so the things the stress of winning the show having the money having Alan
• 4:05
  sugar as your business partner um and the and it was the first time I'd ever own and ran a business
• 4:11
  so I'm a business owner for the first time I'm business partners with Lord sugar for the first
• 4:15
  time I've never seen 250,000 PS before that's all new that's at this point are you getting advice is
• 4:22
  Lord sugar saying listen like you need to scale back you you you're growing too quickly the
• 4:26
  retainers are tooo small I mean are you getting advice or is it all on you you it's all on me
• 4:32
  100% 100% all on you and he tells you at the very start you are going to do this on your own boy I'm
• 4:40
  going to look after the accounting the finance you bring to me legal stuff but I don't want to
• 4:45
  know about digital marketing I don't want to know about you know this that and the other I'll see
• 4:50
  you once a month at the board meeting but you are either going to make it work or you're not going
• 4:54
  to make you're in hot water you've got this public following you're now public figure and you better
• 5:00
  succeed or else yeah and it you feel it I felt every ounce of the pressure people we got sued
• 5:10
  we had other digital marketing agencies hacking our website hacking our server hammering us on
• 5:16
  SEO hammering us giving us negative reviews we had I mean it was a lot I was stacking on weight
• 5:23
  um and eating and drinking really unhealthily working just hours that were un unbelievable
• 5:31
  for a sustained period it was a hard hard hard time um I it was it was thank God I was 24 and
• 5:41
  young and didn't have many obligations because I pretty much lived in the office yeah um you have
• 5:47
  to you have to and and I just made it I made what it I made the opportunity work but it it took some
• 5:53
  working you see you definitely have to be at that right stage in your life I mean yeah I I knew that
• 6:02
  that would have been as a 30y 34 yearold person I knew that the outcome would be all of that
• 6:10
  and you would have to literally give everything without any scope because it's all on the table
• 6:18
  and it's like all on nothing situation so you you have to your life you you you have to you have to
• 6:24
  submit you give your life for that opportunity and The Apprentice winners that haven't been as
• 6:30
  um successful with the opportunity that I have they haven't and it might be the right decision
• 6:36
  for them in their life and the place they're at they haven't given their life to that opportunity
• 6:40
  and it hasn't worked yeah yeah I I could kind of tell that that's the direction it's going in
• 6:45
  and when I met Lord sugar in person he reminded me of my own dad who has the same work ethic my
• 6:50
  dad's also in business and like crazy strict and totally like that you know and I I had already
• 6:57
  had my kids and I was thinking I'm not sure I want to necessarily work in that way now I had
• 7:03
  wanted it when I was the age when you went into The Apprentice because that's how I was working
• 7:08
  in in what I was doing you know Building Systems implementations and things so I would do crazy
• 7:12
  hours and I loved that in the middle of nowhere in a in a gambian jungle or whatever you know but
• 7:18
  as your life changes it's like how much are you going to give and also how much can you physically
• 7:23
  give so so you're now putting on weight you're now you're drinking you're not sort of balancing the
• 7:29
  world work life thing and you're getting stressed so what's what's going on now what's happening to
• 7:33
  you and how how are you managing it wasn't it wasn't good it it manifested in um me having
• 7:40
  fainting episodes where I would like black out or um like just faint um which was new that was that
• 7:48
  something I had seen before um and I was just so stressed and I was under so much uh pressure uh
• 7:56
  from myself from the media from the board of my company um and it was it was challenging
• 8:04
  there's no doubt about it and that's what I say to people who who message me and stuff they're
• 8:08
  about starting a business okay you're not going to be maybe have the same public profile I have and
• 8:13
  maybe Alan Sugar's not your business partner but it's going to be tough the first 12 to 18 months
• 8:19
  of a startup business is Relentless you need to live and breathe it and uh really ride the ups
• 8:27
  and downs for it to get to where needs to go and look later in my career it was not like that at
• 8:32
  all but certainly for the first three years it was it was pretty rough yeah okay but then you kind of
• 8:41
  work through that somehow and then you sell the business for 10 million so why why did you sell
• 8:50
  Mark uh why did I sell well first of all I got an incredible offer um to to for my company to
• 8:58
  be sold the average digital marketing agen in the UK sells for two to three times ebit D we sold for
• 9:03
  N9 and a half times e ebit d so that's a pretty good offer uh the other the other side of that
• 9:10
  coin is um I wanted to be spending more time in Australia which is where I'm doing this from I'd
• 9:14
  missed every friends's wedding funerals birthdays uh births of children I'd missed everything and I
• 9:23
  was starting to be forgotten amongst my friends and family at at home I'd sacrificed 12 years of
• 9:28
  my life to building up my career and and and all of that good stuff so I felt it was time to spend
• 9:35
  more time um with the people that mattered most to me so the offer came at a good time and the
• 9:40
  other businesses I own and manage are either in Australia or can be done um you know Visa V over
• 9:47
  here so um that that that's what led to that decision so a bit of work life balance which
• 9:52
  we'll get to in a second so um your work ethic like from the email correspondents that we've had
• 10:00
  you know LinkedIn whatever you're very good at responding to emails I quite like that you know
• 10:05
  you're very professional is that super important to you yeah yeah my email inbox uh and all my
• 10:14
  inboxes are U meticulously organized I respond to everything within within the day I receive it
• 10:22
  um everything I'll have we we have the Sundance rule in my my offices where anything that comes
• 10:28
  in the day we respond to to before we before we leave um because that is part of the service you
• 10:34
  get from working with me at any level I answer my phone quickly and professionally I write back to
• 10:39
  you quickly and professionally and I'm honest with you and that's that's a guarantee that I
• 10:44
  give the people that I that I work with and even organizing this podcast or anything that I do is
• 10:50
  we do it properly we do it fast we do it organized and we we do it that way and where where does that
• 10:56
  come from does that from from did Lord rub off on you in that way is he similar oh gosh he he's he's
• 11:04
  he's probably a bit more than me but um probably my dad my my dad always had a theory you know how
• 11:11
  you do anything is how you do everything whether you're washing a mug whether you're cleaning your
• 11:16
  car he always said you can tell a good employee from how they keep their car you can tell a
• 11:22
  employee from how they keep maintain their house you know all of this stuff and and and Lord sugar
• 11:27
  was exactly the same he would comment to me on how I was dressed how I was shaved uh you know stuff
• 11:34
  that maybe you shouldn't do these days let's say he doesn't uh give give a stuff about that no his
• 11:42
  brand of mentoring is um direct old school let's call it old school and direct but my dad is a hard
• 11:50
  bastard he is a hard hard bastard so I grew up in a household with a with a tough dad and then I
• 11:56
  went into business with a tough guy and I Lov look getting sworn at to me is it's just a Monday let's
• 12:04
  rock and roll some people get really offended by that and they want to you know take it to the
• 12:08
  employment tribunal or have a winge that's I love that stuff that brand of mentoring works for me
• 12:14
  it doesn't work for everybody you know I I got a business partner that was right for me believes in
• 12:20
  competition believes in working hard believes in tough love uh and it works for me right so do you
• 12:28
  ever ghost people not I will tell them I'm going to ghost them I find ghosting so rude it's so I
• 12:38
  don't get that ghosting thing I don't get it um there's only I can only think of one or two people
• 12:43
  I've ever ghosted because I don't think they're cognitively got all the stuff going on upstairs um
• 12:49
  but most people I'll say look I'm not interested in what you're selling here or what you're doing
• 12:54
  here or your podcast is a load of Tosh I'm not interested and then they'll write back and say
• 12:59
  I told you I'm not interested don't write to me again but so with me um some of my ex-girlfriends
• 13:05
  will might attest to this you always know where you're at you'll always know if you can send
• 13:11
  another message or not yeah I love that and I love you know in this podcast your honesty is coming
• 13:16
  across as well you're talking about you know those numbers that that I read out you know that are on
• 13:22
  from the different magazine articles so like well that's a bit inflated or that wasn't a good number
• 13:27
  because of you know you are super honon that comes across and it's life is too short right
• 13:31
  especially with things like partners and that why would you why would you stay in a relationship
• 13:36
  with someone when you're not like feeling it why can't you just have the courage to tell them you
• 13:41
  know to their face like listen like it's you know I don't I don't get why people don't do that but
• 13:47
  yeah I I I I don't I don't understand it and um I think it better you know I used to be the best
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  uh bullshitter in the game when I was younger uh and as I've gotten older and more um refined more
• 14:01
  mature uh more professional I've just learned that if telling the truth and being direct with people
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  and being honest with people is is the best policy it gets me the best results in business it gets me
• 14:13
  the best results in my personal life um and do you know the people left in my life after I'm direct
• 14:21
  with them are the ones I enjoy being with anyway so it's the results great yeah they've accepted
• 14:27
  you for who you are and they love you for that so that's that's amazing right so let's go to
• 14:32
  where you are now you're in property I mean that's that's where you want to be right that's um that's
• 14:39
  a sweet spot I would say well Lord sugar uh used to say to me pretty much at every board meeting
• 14:45
  Mark we do uh business for fun and property to make money and uh I agree um it's it's I love it
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  um I love it because it's challenging but it's fun I love it cuz I'm good at it um and it's different
• 15:03
  and I can do it anywhere in the world so there's there's so many elements to it that I'm working
• 15:09
  um with and I have lots of new stuff happen every week and that that keeps me interested but it is
• 15:14
  it is good for the back pocket as well if you get it right if you get if you get it right it
• 15:19
  can work so I've just I'm starting a new property company in New Zealand at the moment I'm doing one
• 15:23
  in Australia at the moment I've got one in the UK that's that's doing very well um so it keeps me
• 15:31
  interested and it's a good place to you know hone the stuff that I learned from Lord sugar who's a
• 15:37
  massive property Tycoon um if you know I might as well uh if I've seen success go and have a bit of
• 15:44
  that myself okay so are you happy oh definitely yeah and what's the best thing about your life
• 15:53
  right now I've set my life up I've designed my my life is by Design uh I live in a house on a lake
• 16:01
  in Australia which only has 20 plus Degree Days uh I have uh a fantastic uh fiance who I'm about to
• 16:11
  marry I have an amazing son who uh is very healthy and and doing developing well and I have an office
• 16:19
  down the road which is amazing um I have a great office I have businesses where I go to the board
• 16:26
  meetings I drive to the meetings and I enjoy the people I'm working with and that's not always been
• 16:30
  the case so I've set up my life where I love my house I go to a gym I enjoy an office I enjoy so
• 16:37
  I'm in this phase of my life of doing hard stuff but that I enjoy and um that makes me happy yeah
• 16:48
  okay so in terms of your work life balance I mean are you doing anything to do with like
• 16:53
  mindfulness or journaling or anything like that for your mind and you mentioned working out so
• 16:59
  how was that balance going yeah I mean I try to meditate every day um for 15 minutes at the end
• 17:06
  of every single day um I'm a bit of a Nutter about self-help stuff um I'm always listening
• 17:14
  to self-help books and uh different podcasts and things about improving my health um and
• 17:21
  and wellness so I have two coaches that I pay for coaching a nutritionist um and um one that I work
• 17:29
  with like a personal trainer type thing but it's like an exercise physiology because I have some
• 17:33
  issues in my back so um I believe because people pay me to coach them about business why would I
• 17:39
  not believe in paying people for their expertise to help me in other areas I need in my life so
• 17:46
  I'm working really hard on my on my health at the moment um to complement the other stuff that I'm
• 17:51
  doing in my businesses I love that I love the fact that you say you engineer your life it's
• 17:56
  like drawing your ideal life and then you go for it I love that I love it right we're now going
• 18:01
  to move on to your LinkedIn posts okay so I'll start with this one this is what you're saying
• 18:08
  I've always been different whenever I've tried to cover that up and act more normal I found
• 18:13
  less success what do you mean by that um I I I'll give you a reference to The Apprentice actually
• 18:25
  the candidates that uh watch the previous series before they go on the series is before them and
• 18:32
  they try and act like or take on the personality of a contestant that's been in years past always
• 18:38
  fail because you cannot fake being someone you're not for 12 weeks impossible situation
• 18:44
  it's too tiring yeah you you can be you and that's either going to be accepted by Lord sugar and the
• 18:51
  public or it's not but at least you're going to be realistic and go on to be successful in whatever
• 18:57
  your realm of life is that is the same I've had times in my life where I have felt the need to
• 19:06
  act differently against my my will or against who my my nature is or my ethics and it's always
• 19:14
  turned out badly differently how to fit in maybe you know to fit in at school or to fit in to try
• 19:23
  and uh date a girl or to get a job or to work in a team or an organization and I've always done it
• 19:31
  to try and get some form of success or a goal and it's I've either got it and it's not felt right
• 19:38
  or I've either not got it and burn crashed and burned miserably and it's I've Trace that back
• 19:46
  like an air crash investigation to always acting not in a reflection of who I really am not being
• 19:54
  who I am at my core value and whenever I've done that I've failed so my theory is if you are just
• 20:02
  you we're all weird we're all messed up let's just agree to that and be who you are and I agree that
• 20:09
  sometimes people will come into my life hate who I am and they leave and sometimes I'll come in
• 20:14
  and love who I am and stay and that's all fine and if you just do that you're going to have
• 20:20
  better people around you you're going to get into the opportunities that are right for you you're
• 20:24
  not going to get into the ones that are wrong for you and the net positive of that is going to be a
• 20:29
  better life yeah cuz if you look at someone like Lord sugar as well he's completely and utterly
• 20:34
  unashamedly and unapologetically himself isn't he yes let's let's be clear about and like your
• 20:41
  dad and my dad you know it's people with strong personalities that don't apologize for who they
• 20:47
  are they're not and they they tend to live the best lives I to I need to be honest with the
• 20:54
  more you Flex to other people's will you know Lord sugar probably always gets to go and eat where he
• 21:00
  wants to eat because not too many people are going to argue with he he's picking that restaurant you
• 21:05
  know I've Got Friends where I know when I'm out with them they've got very strong Wills
• 21:10
  they picked the restaurant they picked the bottle of wine you know they just get what they want in
• 21:15
  life and that they seem pretty happy when I saw my husband at work um I mean I was on holiday at
• 21:22
  the time and he joined the company while I was on holiday and he walked into the office I was
• 21:26
  like I'm definitely going to marry him and then the night yeah yeah the next night we went went
• 21:30
  out you know I just was like you know do you want to have kids one day and d d he was like yes and
• 21:35
  then I went home to my friends I was like I'm gonna marry him and that's exactly what I did
• 21:38
  and I'm very happy you know because if you do what you want to do in life and you you know you like
• 21:46
  you're saying Mark like you engineer your life then you can you have to be happy because you're
• 21:51
  doing what you want so the outcome is going to be more in your favor yeah and and I don't understand
• 21:59
  I cannot comprehend people who you see them like I've got some some family members like this who
• 22:07
  say you know oh you know I think about I'm not so unhappy in my career I'm so unhappy in my life
• 22:12
  I'm so unhappy I'm so unhappy and I just think you mustn't be that unhappy because why would
• 22:17
  you just not change it it's so easy to there's so many companies to work for there's so many
• 22:24
  gyms to go and improve your like there is so many ways to be not where you are but you just mustn't
• 22:30
  be uncomfortable enough because you I literally I call it with my partner we call it braining it
• 22:37
  out we brain out every element of our house of our life of you know I want every bit of my house and
• 22:45
  life and business thought about it brained out I want to just I want to design it so and people say
• 22:51
  wow this is amazing it's on purposely amazing yeah but some people are also on purposely they have
• 22:58
  victim mentality because they kind of like and that sounds really horrible to say but I have
• 23:04
  seen it in people where they like the sort of the being miserable because they get attention from it
• 23:09
  and every go oh no and you know you can do this and they get a lot of feedback and in a way that
• 23:15
  feedback is rewarding which which sounds horrible but there are some people like and you're right
• 23:20
  they obviously don't like it dislike it enough to change um but no one's coming to change their
• 23:26
  life like no one's going to magically wand them out of that situation except for them and a lot
• 23:33
  of the time it it it doesn't change I I'll give you another example I'm getting married in the go
• 23:38
  Coast in December and we sent congratulations thank you thank you and obviously a lot of my
• 23:44
  friends live in the UK and my partner's from Finland and um so there's a lot of invitations
• 23:48
  G out across the world and some people have said to my to my partner and I it's I wish you would
• 23:54
  hot the wedding until we can afford to come for the ticket or whatever you know some close
• 24:01
  members of family the issue is which I said to my partner they'll never be able to afford to come
• 24:07
  in my experience poor people are always poor and rich people are always Rich because it's in here
• 24:14
  nothing to do with what's in your bank account it's a way of thinking and uh once you change that
• 24:20
  way of thinking everything else changes and it's that's the hardest bit of the process to change
• 24:26
  in most people yeah that's a very interesting one okay so another LinkedIn post go for it you hit
• 24:34
  me with them okay if you don't have haters trolls and enemies you aren't doing anything worthwhile
• 24:43
  really in my experience there is a direct the more people that have trolled my posts uh attacked me
• 24:53
  on Google reviews on LinkedIn on uh Twitter and all of these various places there has always been
• 25:00
  a direct correlation between the better I'm doing and the more haters I have right so when I was
• 25:08
  broke flat broke as a pancake working at a steak restaurant sleeping on the floor I had no haters
• 25:15
  I had no trolls I couldn't get any likes on my Facebook posts then I won The Apprentice and I
• 25:21
  had hundreds of thousands of followers and all of a sudden people were saying he looks funny
• 25:26
  he speaks funny he doesn't deserve to when I know more about digital marketing than me hang
• 25:30
  on that person doesn't know me and all that had had changed was I was doing better I was doing
• 25:37
  something worth doing I was doing other people I was doing something that other people were jealous
• 25:42
  of and that made them dislike me because I was being successful at it and I found whenever your
• 25:48
  business is doing better you're more healthy you're earning more you're doing better people
• 25:54
  start to say things about you and comes from a place of jealousy in their own circumstances get
• 26:02
  I get some pretty Savage stuff um mainly about just you know I don't know what I'm talking
• 26:10
  about I've only been successful because I was in business with alen sugar um uh all of that sort of
• 26:17
  stuff you know I get all of that you know go kill yourself and all of that sort of stuff but it's
• 26:24
  it is water off off a duck's back and um sometimes I'm going to be completely honest with you I'm at
• 26:30
  a place in my life now where I'm so content with it sometimes I do posts just to upset the um the
• 26:38
  trolls because it amuses me okay I've got one of those I've got one this must be one of them this
• 26:46
  is you responding to an article okay headlined how to get 55 days off this year while only just using
• 26:54
  25 days annual leave Mark replies what a time to be alive this is the new culture that goes hand
• 27:03
  in hand with nonsense like a 4-day working week and working from home holy guacamole I mean this
• 27:11
  there's a lot in this post okay are you bringing this up because you don't agree with my my my
• 27:18
  viewpoints and and and they they've upset yourself um I'm bringing it up for two reasons I can see
• 27:26
  that the response from the public public was meaningful like there there was a response people
• 27:32
  had a lot to say um I also bringing it up because I guess the way it's worded it's definitely trying
• 27:41
  to annoy some people because obviously it's very generalized and you you can't possibly
• 27:46
  make a statement like working from home isn't good at all because like you know people work
• 27:51
  from home and very effectively obviously there's people that work from home and they work from home
• 27:56
  like we know we know so it's a very general thing but um it was just one of those Mark moments I
• 28:03
  think where I'm not sure you is that a windup or do you actually think this I intentionally word
• 28:09
  some things to create conflict because the the best way to increase social media visibility is
• 28:16
  engagement so it is a windup so it's not up well let me let me finish by saying I completely stand
• 28:24
  by that post and I agree with all of the things that I said and and let's break it down one at a
• 28:29
  time I don't I fundamentally at my core believe a 4-day work week will be a disastrous situation
• 28:36
  if big companies enter into it yeah I believe that working from home full-time working from
• 28:42
  home kills the culture of a company and it's hard to build a brand and a company culture and retain
• 28:48
  staff and un for them to understand the values of a company that they don't go into but I need a way
• 28:57
  of communicating with people who don't really want to hear me out so I sometimes go for the jugular
• 29:05
  on one liners that I know will really upset them because if you're sitting at home in your pajamas
• 29:12
  taking the biscuit getting a full salary and you you're one of the people who really take the
• 29:17
  Mickey and you see my post you are going to be up you're going to be fearful that your way of living
• 29:24
  is going to leave uh and so they come hard in the paint at me and I I absolutely love it yeah I mean
• 29:34
  I suppose it does depend on the type of business I mean I work with teams that you know they just do
• 29:39
  work from home but my word do they do a brilliant job because for those guys like a designer that's
• 29:46
  doing a specific logo or some sort of you know print that you're doing and either they deliver
• 29:53
  it or they don't I couldn't care less what pajamas they're wearing or what biscuit they eating it I
• 29:58
  literally don't care what time I do what I care about is what ends up in my inbox is something
• 30:03
  that I like and like you've done a good job and it better be on time it better be on time and
• 30:07
  also you better respond you know when I send that text reply like that efficiency like you
• 30:12
  can be on the moon I couldn't care less as long as it comes in but I obviously get your point
• 30:17
  that there's some businesses where you've got to have that brainstorming session and you need
• 30:21
  that culture I completely understand so that's why it depends definitely I for for me the way
• 30:29
  you build a company is by having a good brand a good culture and good values it's very hard to
• 30:36
  instill a culture values and all of that good stuff if you never see the person uh that you
• 30:45
  you know that you're working with and I think my concern is people can do what they want no one's
• 30:52
  waiting for Mark Wright to tell them what to do let's be completely honest but with the develop
• 30:58
  M of artificial intelligence and the ability now out of places like India the Philippines and all
• 31:05
  of these places the US the UK Australia they need to be very careful what you wish for you might
• 31:13
  wish for a four-day working week it won't be long before you have a zero day working week because Ai
• 31:19
  and the Philippines are willing to do your work for you and that's I'm you might hate me these
• 31:26
  folks out there but I'm on your team I'm trying to foresee what is coming and make sure that we
• 31:34
  all have jobs and money for the future yeah I I'm I'm totally with you on the four- day working week
• 31:41
  I mean that's nonsense I agree about that that's silly you've got to just at least work your five
• 31:46
  working days please every everyone it's not that hard if you if you're upset about working five
• 31:53
  days a week you need to change jobs you're in the wrong profession you're in wrong career because I
• 31:59
  love I want to work I race to the office on Monday I can't get there quick enough because I love I
• 32:05
  love it if you're not doing that change jobs this brings me on to a very very very controversial one
• 32:12
  where you say you don't understand businesses that close between Christmas and New Year's Eve
• 32:21
  and that you sell more when others are closed yeah uh it's just that really upset the uh the
• 32:31
  wokies that one that run really got that Lit the touch fire on the um on on the people in the cheap
• 32:39
  seats and the reason basically I um I went to do I was doing something I don't know sending
• 32:49
  oh was moving house and I was trying to get some quotes for some stuff for the house and everyone
• 32:54
  I removal company internet this thing this thing we're closed from the 20th of December till the
• 33:02
  17th of January what oh so I can't have internet until then or I can't remove my stuff and whatever
• 33:13
  whatever whatever now and people were like oh yeah good luck working on your deathbed good luck you
• 33:20
  know blah blah blah blah blah listen people need a break people need to go on holidays people need a
• 33:25
  weekend one of the best pieces of business advice I ever forgot maybe the best was from Alan sugar
• 33:30
  that he's never worked a weekend he finishes at 5:00 on a Friday he doesn't start again till 9:00
• 33:36
  on Monday I was not saying don't have a break I was saying that organizations should be able to
• 33:44
  take orders process customers and still trade to help people and and create Revenue through holiday
• 33:53
  periods now there is much more than there's 52 weeks in a year the week between Christmas and New
• 33:59
  Year is one week There's still 51 other weeks you can go on holidays or some staff could still work
• 34:05
  that week and go on a holiday at different time my companies do it we do record trade in those
• 34:12
  times maybe there's something that when other people are closed people go to the you know if
• 34:16
  there's all the cafes are closed and there's one who's open who's selling all the coffees
• 34:21
  sometimes just being the only game in town is a is a pretty powerful sales strategy okay again you've
• 34:27
  you've explained it so the controversy was there on purpose because you're not saying don't go on
• 34:31
  holiday over Christmas because obviously parents you know you've got to go when your kids have a
• 34:36
  holiday they've got a break which is normally over the Christmas period you're going to go with your
• 34:39
  son you're gonna you know you want to that that family time is really important and it normally
• 34:44
  comes around that period but you're not saying don't do that you're just saying keep business
• 34:50
  operating especially if it's critical business I mean obviously hospitals and all that you know
• 34:54
  that's a no-brainer but like you're not saying just work you know work over Christmas you're
• 35:00
  just saying Christmas is my favorite time of the year it's my favorite day of of the year
• 35:04
  it's my I love it I absolutely love it I love sitting at the Christmas table with my family
• 35:09
  and my friends and it's it's the most beautiful sacred time in my in some of my life is being at
• 35:16
  the Christmas table but that doesn't mean my business is shut down that's all I'm saying
• 35:23
  and uh and this is what I'm saying business isn't for everyone I think what I'm saying
• 35:28
  is the best business advice I can give you it might sound uncomfortable maybe you your business
• 35:33
  doesn't want to open then but my businesses do and I still enjoy Christmas but I'm just saying spread
• 35:40
  it out have C you might have Muslim employees that work that Christmas period and you give them that
• 35:48
  Christians that time off and you work over Eed or what what whatever it is exactly yes so you be
• 35:54
  more flexible you see Mark which is what I what I wanted you to explain about your post because that
• 35:59
  that makes more sense to me than what you posted because obviously I agree with that but I wouldn't
• 36:04
  agree with the just flat posts which says you know just basically work over Christmas go if you go
• 36:09
  like Mark you as well forget your kid go work over Christmas but obviously these posts are designed
• 36:14
  for um yeah no they they're interesting here we are talking about them and uh I get so many
• 36:21
  uh messages and and stuff but look my this is my true beliefs and when you ask me to explain them
• 36:28
  tell me if you disagree yeah no I I I actually agree with that now that you've explained it I
• 36:33
  agree I agree with everything pretty much that you've said so maybe maybe accept this one this
• 36:40
  is the one post it's the last LinkedIn post um all right you talk about the fact that you have never
• 36:49
  met a business person a good business person that isn't ruthless that triggers some uh emotion in
• 37:01
  me um obviously I come from entrepreneurship it's like it's been in the family like I've I've grown
• 37:09
  up living and breathing everything that business is you know from the ground up all that Journey
• 37:16
  up and down all of it um there is something about the ruthlessness in business that I have a like
• 37:24
  a problem with you know um I had an exboyfriend once that I wonder if he's listening he lied on
• 37:33
  his application to go to to do an MBA you know these Business Schools they're very tough you
• 37:38
  know the application process and he lied that English you know wasn't his first language um
• 37:44
  so he sort of you know manipulated the the whole thing about his mom and so on for this application
• 37:52
  and and got in and would write the exam that's easier in English and that really bothered me
• 37:58
  because I was like well that's dishonest you've you don't really deserve to be in that position
• 38:05
  you've cheated and you know what he said to me he goes you know people like me are going to get
• 38:11
  ahead in life because I I know how to play the system I know I'm ruthless I you know because
• 38:19
  there are people out there that will sell their kidney to get ahead in business and he was sort
• 38:25
  of saying that to me and never have I ever been so put off a man in my life you know human like I
• 38:32
  couldn't understand you know I don't relate that I think you did well making him an ex-boyfriend
• 38:39
  let's let's uh say that um and the the answer is what he was doing was not ruthlessness it was
• 38:47
  dishonesty um and when I talk about ruthlessness I mean resilience and I mean toughness um
• 38:59
  every successful business leader I've worked with or ever met speaking doing podcasts on
• 39:05
  my journey across board room tables to be successful you need a level of resilience
• 39:12
  and toughness and decision-making ability that is I deem ruthless and it comes down to what the
• 39:19
  definition of Ruthless actually means and it is not being dishonest it is not taking advantage of
• 39:28
  people it is not doing anything at all costs it's making the tough decisions at the right times and
• 39:37
  doing what needs to be done and if you do it with a resilience and an honesty and an Integrity that
• 39:45
  is ruthlessness that makes you successful and I truly believe you can't be successful without
• 39:50
  that right okay so let's unpack the definition of ruthlessness which is actually according to
• 39:57
  the Oxford dictionary having or showing no pity or compassion for others well then then then I
• 40:05
  I've used the wrong word I think you've used the wrong word I think you used the wrong word I if I
• 40:12
  was looking for one word it's toughness toughness is ruthlessness sounds better than toughness right
• 40:19
  it does it sounds sounds more robust yeah uh so I I don't mean at all cost costs absolutely not
• 40:28
  because um you you could go and set up a Ponzi scheme and just steal money if you wanted to be
• 40:34
  successful make money that but that to me is not successful that that's that's just making
• 40:40
  money at at any cost and that's ruthlessness and that you know that that's not the right way to go
• 40:45
  about it yeah I think I'm be I'm being a little bit tough on you there because of you know I've
• 40:49
  read ahead of this I was doing research on this and especially this post and I actually came
• 40:55
  across so many articles you know business articles you know the entrepreneur there that credible you
• 41:01
  know journalists writing about ruthlessness in business but in a very very positive way so it's
• 41:06
  not like it's un unheard of and unusual for you to say that I will just say um when you talk about
• 41:14
  ruthless business people I would consider one of those to be Steve Jobs you know I think the way
• 41:22
  that he operated was a little bit ruthless not just with the people his team like come on why
• 41:29
  aren't you working later hours let's go let's go we need to get the product out I don't care that
• 41:33
  you haven't eaten I don't care that it's 3:00 in the morning you got to work and he was also
• 41:38
  incredibly ruthless with himself he had no pity or compassion with the fact that maybe he didn't eat
• 41:45
  breakfast he's been in the same clothes for three days that these are real stories he would not
• 41:49
  even get changed sometimes because why why would you there's no time you have to work so he was
• 41:55
  incredibly ruthless and I feel like that there's going to be a price right and he paid I think with
• 42:01
  his life he gave his absolute health for this I agree you know I agree I love Steve Jobs um
• 42:10
  for for for for multiple reasons but he was he was ruthless in probably every sense of uh the word um
• 42:17
  you know if you even look at the way what he how he was with his daughter and all of that sort of
• 42:22
  stuff he he really he really was ruthless um but he was a incredible businessman if you read the
• 42:29
  Glass Door reviews for Elon musk's company he is a ruthless guy he is there is no doubt about the way
• 42:37
  he operates he's he's a ruthless guy but coming back from that I believe you have to be tough
• 42:44
  and resilient to be successful in business I I've just seen too many people there's too much that
• 42:50
  happens to you on a weekly basis for if you cannot handle pressure stress to to make it it's just too
• 42:57
  difficult and um that's what I was trying to get across in that post yeah um well I think there
• 43:05
  was one thing he said as well which I quite liked because obviously I walked off The Apprentice I it
• 43:11
  wasn't for me so I I will always do what's right for me and maybe there's a ruthlessness about me
• 43:16
  because it's like oh you took other people's place and someone else could have something something
• 43:20
  but then the ruthless side of me is like well hang on a minute I got myself in I will get myself out
• 43:26
  if that's what I feels right for me no one is going to tell me what I'm like a cat you can't
• 43:30
  make me do anything I don't want to do like there is no way on God's Earth I'm going to do something
• 43:35
  I don't want to do um and he was the same in the sense that he was like if you w to get out of
• 43:42
  something if something isn't working if it's not aligned with your your deep values then you've
• 43:48
  got to change course like in that way I agreed but I can tell in two minutes of meeting you on this
• 43:57
  podcast tonight you you are what I would call a ruthless tough person without a shadow of a
• 44:03
  doubt I know that you are a certain type of person that can handle pressure that can handle stress
• 44:10
  that can handle tough conversations I know that straight away by talk by talking to you in in in
• 44:16
  two minutes and my friends have this like joke about me they call me Houdini because as soon as
• 44:23
  I'm in a situation where I don't want to be there a meeting a night out a dinner I don't even say
• 44:29
  goodbye to people I'm just not there anymore and um and and and like you with The Apprentice or or
• 44:36
  or or or anything as soon as I'm in a situation I think this isn't for me I'm off I'm out I'm out
• 44:41
  the door it's just a waste of time isn't it Mark I've taken up a lot of your time I've got three
• 44:46
  last very quick questions and this has come from the public so I've just chosen the top three um I
• 44:51
  said I'm interviewing you let's see what have you guys got so first one have this is really funny
• 44:56
  have people ever got you confused with Mark Wright from Twi the only way is I know know yeah I mean
• 45:05
  this is probably the number one thing I get asked now and um all the all of the time we get confused
• 45:12
  I get letters for him I get emails from him I get social media DMS from people that certainly think
• 45:19
  I'm him uh that we get confused all the time I've met him and um he's a Charming guy he's a lovely
• 45:27
  Guy and um he he's done incredibly well and he's a lot more uh famous uh quote unquote well-known
• 45:34
  than I am and uh but he deserves all of his success okay and what was your favorite task on
• 45:41
  The Apprentice and why we had one at a farm show the uh bath West Farm Show and I sold 11 hot tubs
• 45:52
  and it was my favorite task because I did well and we won but but I just loved the selling and I
• 45:58
  loved being out in the public um selling to people and it felt like when you're trapped in that house
• 46:04
  with the same people I felt like I was getting a bit of like um like a bit of like being in jail
• 46:10
  you know like I felt like I was trapped almost like you said before and when I was out at the
• 46:14
  farm show selling with the public I kind of felt like I was normal again like I was like part of
• 46:20
  the people again and there was there was something nice to that as well okay last question how much
• 46:25
  time do you really get to get ready in the mornings people love this why is this can I ask
• 46:34
  you because this is the out of all the questions I get asked the two biggest questions are what's
• 46:39
  Alan sugar like yes and when the phone rings do we really have 20 minutes to I must have been asked
• 46:45
  this $1,000 they want to know loads of people yeah and I as you will know it's true yeah you don't I
• 46:53
  mean obviously because I couldn't sleep so I I was like next to I slept next to the window so
• 46:58
  I could hear them sneaking by and parking their little cars and I knew I knew they were on their
• 47:03
  way so I was kind of like mentally I was mentally prepared for them anyway so sort of yeah but it is
• 47:09
  really short isn't it it's just so really really short and it's really really early like 400 a.m.
• 47:17
  in the morning I just remember it being so early and uh but like I said I loved every minute of it
• 47:24
  brilliant mark thank you so much much for coming on this podcast like you've been absolutely
• 47:30
  amazing thank you for your honesty like it's been super interesting thank you thank you for your
• 47:37
  tough questions and inviting me on it's been a pleasure to be with you and here my LinkedIn posts
• 47:42
  read out loud that's the first time that's ever happened but I I I wish you every success I know
• 47:48
  it's going to be a great podcast and thanks again for having me on thank you and likewise [Music]
• 47:56
  he