Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / Issue 335: Don’t Give in to Hate!

Transcript

Issue 335: Don’t Give in to Hate! · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

0:04
Welcome to the Nerd Polity. Hi, this is Nick Nastasu, story editor
0:10
on Star Wars, The Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
0:15
are listening to Aggressive Negotiations. Welcome back to the number one podcast for Purgle
0:27
watching Aggressive Negotiations, your Star Wars show here on the Nerd Party Network,
0:32
where we explore all of the vast, deep, and amazing corners of the
0:38
Star Wars galaxy. I'm one of your humble hosts, John Mills, and
0:42
with me as always as the revered Jedi Master and Purgle massage therapist Jedi Master
0:49
Matthew Rushing. Matt are you limber? Are you ready for tonight's show?
0:54
You know, I've got to always say limber, especially with the purgle massage
0:58
therapy that I do. You know, the bigger the purgle, the harder
1:02
is to work on, and so you know those industrial size clampers that I
1:11
have to use as well to make my hands larger, so that you know
1:14
it's it's oh man. But I'm just surprised that we don't already have Purgle
1:18
podcast out there as the new Star Wars podcast or I mean, I love
1:23
the idea of Purgle Watch as a podcast named for a Star Wars podcast.
1:26
I think that's hilarious. Now you've put it out there, and now we
1:30
know as well that we sometimes are trendsetters within the Star Wars podcast galaxy.
1:36
You know, it's bound to happen. But I can also tell you what's
1:38
bound to happen is people will ignore this part when I tell them that you
1:42
should go over to Apple Podcasts and give us a star rating and review.
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If you haven't already, reach out to us on the Nerdparty dot Com,
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slash contact, or you can even reach out to us on x Twitter x
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Twitter xx Twitter, whatever it's called. Now you can reach out to us
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on it at the Jedi Masters, and you can of course find the network
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at joy nerd Party and the Nerd Party on Facebook and Instagram, which is
2:07
really the same platform but whatever. And nobody nobody yet on the network doing
2:14
TikTok dances, but we'll get there. So, Matt, you know,
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we've been delving into some sort of like non traditional territory for us recently in
2:23
these episodes, and I think one of the reasons is there's a lot of
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stuff to talk about. You know, we've been talking about physical media and
2:29
what it means for this and what it means for that, and something that
2:31
we sort of like have navigated around on the edges of. But I really
2:37
just want to embrace here because of some conversations I've had recently. If anybody
2:42
is coming to the show new at some point in the future, we're recording
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this during the height of the Asoka series. Yes, and it's debut on
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the Disney Plus. Season one of the Asoka series debuting on Disney Plus.
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And I want to ask you, Matt, and We're gonna have some controversial
3:00
questions. Probably, I've encountered a number of people in my personal life that
3:07
are not the caricatures that you encounter online, who have nothing good to say
3:15
about any Star Wars material released, usually since the nineteen eighties, definitely since
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Disney took over. At what point can we as a fan base start ignoring
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the people who are never happy with Star Wars And how can we encourage them
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to let it go and just accept that it's time to move on. Well,
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you know, that's really interesting questions. But but but, but,
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but but First, John and I have something to say that is actually an
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autograph picture of Alec Guinness is signed by Ewan McGregor. That is worth one
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hundred and fifty eight delis. And so, you know, thank you coming
4:05
changed it just for the show. But uh, yeah, you know,
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I think it's an interesting question because as you brought this up, I was
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listening to a podcast that will go unnamed, with a host on there who
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is frequently uh speaking derogatory comments toward anything Star Wars after Empire strikes back and
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and and I think to myself, you know, you know, why why
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do you continue to watch these things? Why do you even continue to think
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about these things? If it's something that you haven't liked, uh, you
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know since the second film. You know, it would be akin to uh
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someone getting to Alien three and then getting past that and not liking anything else
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and still saying, you know, all they're an Alien fan. I mean,
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you're a fan of two films, so you know, I mean there's
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so many I think, yeah, different places where you could talk about this
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idea and so and and I think it is a valid question because you know,
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we don't want to be considered like gate keepers. But yeah, that's
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that's exactly what I was going to go into, was like you know,
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there's always that danger of like gate keepings, like how dare you say I'm
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not a Star Wars. I'm an original Star Wars fan. I like the
5:34
originals. But I had an involved discussion with somebody where he was telling me
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he had just started the Asoka show and I said, oh, well,
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I'll be tight lipped. I won't spoil anything, and he cynically just says,
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oh, I know where it's gonna say, I know where it starts,
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I know where it's probably gonna end up. It doesn't matter. I
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don't care. And I said, yeah, but it gets pretty weird and
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that's pretty awesome. I love Star Wars when it's weird. And he says
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to me, yeah, well, I haven't liked anything since the original trilogy.
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And I didn't get upset. I mean what. I looked at him.
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I said, that's fine. I don't make money either way. What
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do I care? And I mean that I don't really care. It's nothing
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I'm ever going to get upset about. It's literally something that just puzzles me,
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because why would. It's like somebody who is forced to do a sport
6:28
by their parents growing up. I can understand why that kid grows to hate
6:32
peewee football or baseball or soccer because they didn't want to do it in the
6:38
first place. Yeah, but part of the point of growing into adulthood is
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you have agency, and if you don't like a thing, why would you
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continue? And when I asked him and I said, why are you still
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watching if you haven't liked anything? And he's, you know, he of
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course started bashing the prequels again. I said, okay, whatever, I
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said, are you still watching? And he looked at me and he said,
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I don't know. And I'm That's the part that puzzles me is Star
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Trek because we're both fans of Star Trek right, not I'm not fans of
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everything Star Treks down, but I'm a Star Trek fan. There are things
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start that are Star Trek that I've liked. I never fault Lower Decks,
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which I think is one of the my favorite shows to watch right now.
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If you're not a Star Trek fan, right, show is not for you.
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You're not gonna get exactly yeah, any of the jokes. Yeah,
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well, I agree. So why is Star Wars held to this standard where
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they have to care like? Why why is this obligation put on Star Wars
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as a franchise to have to appeal to even the people that don't really like
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it anymore. Yeah, you know, this is a really interesting question because
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I was thinking back, you know, what are what are some of the
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things that you know, I really enjoy Maybe I've stopped watching and mainly because
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I just didn't like it so much. I was like, I can't stomach
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anymore, you know, and there's no reason for me to watch it because
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they don't think I'm ever going to be turned around. And I thought of
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two things that had just started in the last couple of years where I've been
8:22
I've got three books left in the Wheel of Time series, so I've been
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reading that. It's a massive undertaking. Its fourteen books. You know,
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it's thousands upon thousands of pages long. So I'm very invested in this world
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at this point. And then the show came out. I was very excited
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that it was going to be on some great talents in that show. And
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the show to me, was awful. I mean, and I do mean
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legitimately awful, terrible, just wrecking the source material. You know, it
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just not a good show, not well produced. It just looks like garbage.
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The whole thing. It was one of those things where we were actually
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going to podcast about it on the six of two Club, and I decided
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not to because I had literally nothing good to say about the show. So
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I was like, why would I talk about it? You know, same
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thing happened with the Lord of the Rings series on Amazon. So Amazon has
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now ruined two fantasy series that I love and so but I just made the
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decision. I've finished both first seasons just to give it a complete chance.
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Hated both of them. I will never watch them again. Why would I
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Why would I invest my time? You know? And so I think then
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to transport that though to Star Wars. It just seems like that there is
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this group of people who, yes, they loved two maybe three films,
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most of them hate Return of the Jedi though. That's that's when their hatred
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started, and well, they hated it. They hated it until the prequels
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gave them something else to hate, right right, And so I think what
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it is is this desire to recapture a magic that they can't recreate. Because
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it's the same reason I believe that, like I don't really love the Goonies,
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Goonies is to me a film that you needed to have watched when you
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were a certain age. It would have captivated your imagination and you would have
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loved it for the rest of your life. You watch it as an older
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adult, adult, though, and it you know, it just doesn't hold
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up. Let me throw let me throw a time out on you there.
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I just wanted to interject really quick to say there were those of us who
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went through goonies media that didn't care for it. Yeah, you know,
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so, I mean, I think, but I think that's the thing,
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is that what the problem is is that what you ended up loving about a
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thing was your reaction to it at a certain time period. Read and you
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can't go back and get that unless you approach that subject matter and that material
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with that same type of mindset, which is difficult to do as an adult
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because we approach things with different sensibilities as we get older. Whereas instead of
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approaching that thing based on its criteria, not my criteria. You know,
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what Star Wars is hasn't changed, But what I think maybe Star Wars is
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probably will does change as I get older, and you know, I have
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my taste change. You know, it's like going from uh, you know,
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maybe you're a kid and you grow up and you love Kenny Loggins,
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but you know, something changes in you, and all of a sudden you're
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living listening to you know, led Zeppelin and Metallica. Now see what's interesting
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here is I think that's at the crux of and here comes one of those
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fine lines again. But I think that probably there's a part of me that
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reflexively was incapable of ever fully embracing even the force awakens, specifically because it
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felt like something constructed to appeal to the guy that was sitting there talking to
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me saying he didn't like anything since the original trilogy exactly. But it's still
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backfired, didn't It still backfire? Like there's no you can't go back again
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to your point. Everybody wants to recapture that youthful thing. And then that
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was attempted and it was a huge financial success, but there was still that
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segment hates that too. Ye, So it's like there's even a segment of
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this segment. And the thing is, I, legitimately I'm trying to wrap
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my head around it because if I don't like something, I just stopped watching.
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There was a really interesting podcast that was done called The redemption of jar
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Jar Binks, which basically was this the story of the Internet's first main character,
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Yea and the way in which that firestorm happens. And I think though,
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that that ignited in all fandoms and the entire Internet, this idea that
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the way to get noticed is to cry about something and how much I hate
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it and how much it ruined my childhood. And maybe this is going to
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sound terrible, but it's this victimhood status I think in fandom. And you
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don't have to watch things you don't like. I think that's the thing.
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You know, if you're not continuing to enjoy a franchise, don't watch it.
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Case in point, I watched a couple of episodes of The Star Trek
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Discovery Realize not for me. I don't like the show. I don't think
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it fits in Star Trek at all. I don't even think it's a good
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show in general. Am I out there continually posting about how much I hate
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Star Trek Discovery and how much I think it's awful and how nobody should watch
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it And if you like it, you're a bad Star Trek fan. And
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I'm the only good Star Trek fan because I realize it's terrible. No,
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it just doesn't. It doesn't work for me. So I didn't watch it,
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but I watch I've watched Star Trek Percard, I've watched Strange New Worlds.
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I've watched you know, Lower Decks, and each one I like to
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a certain degree. Star Trek Percard season three I thought was phenomenal. Star
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Trek, Strange New Worlds. I thought that had a great first season,
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very uneven second season. Lower Decks has been from great to really not great
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to me, But I continually watch it because I find it pretty funny for
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the most part and just enjoyable. So it's like, but I don't have
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to watch the thing that I don't like. Yeah, I mean. The
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great thing about Lower Decks. This is a quick interjection, is it is
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a It is a comedy animated show. So even if there's an episode you're
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not nuts about, it's done in twenty twenty two minutes and you're like,
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Okay, that's done exactly. Next one's up, like the Peanut Hamper episodes,
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which I think should be destroyed before we get too sidetracked, before we
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get too sidetracked, and the thing is again, to go back on it
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we're not telling anybody not to watch, and we're not telling anybody it's this
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literally, is it? I don't, I mean, is it just let's
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just close it out with the question, then, did you just hit on
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it? Is it that our entire culture in the era of social media has
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turned into getting attention by being hateful and terrible about a franchise, as opposed
16:07
to like, and I've been caught up in it, like it was.
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It used to be a lot of fun to jump on that sort of insult
16:18
comic bandwagon, right, the really harsh insult comics that were really popular in
16:22
the two thousands, or comics insult Dog, you know, like well,
16:27
okay, Trump Triumph. The comic was hilarious. But I mean, but
16:32
that's the whole point of I mean, like it was there to get a
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rise out of people, like, you know, yeah, well, you
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know, I think what it is. And again I'll cop to it.
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I've I've fallen victim victim to this over time. But that which is funny
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to witness isn't necessarily something you should adopt. Is it just that we've wrapped
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ourselves in a pattern of only reinforcing our worst behaviors because that's all we encounter,
17:08
and so we wind up mimicking because you mimic the social cues that you're
17:14
immersed in. If you don't like it, you move on, like just
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keeping it in the context of it's just a movie. It's not a part
17:21
of my identity. It's just a thing I enjoy. And if I stop
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enjoying that thing, that's okay too. So another thing that and this is
17:30
just kind of tangential to what we're talking about, but it's it's an example
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of something to which I've had to step away from because it was creating this
17:42
serious unease in me, and and it was creating an all honesty, a
17:49
real sense of like anger, frustration, you know, anxiety honestly, and
17:57
that was used to be much more of a political junkie and listening to tons
18:03
of news podcasts and all of these things. And what I was finding was
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all of those things that I just mentioned, and I realize I can just
18:21
stop listening to them, and my mental health is going to be so much
18:26
better for it. Right And I think you know, you guys talked about
18:33
tomorrow Land on Houselights not too long ago, and one of the points of
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tomorrow Land is the question of what wolf do we feed? Do we feed
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the wolf of hate or do we feed the wolf of hope and inspiration?
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And I think too many times in our lives we're feeding the wolf of hate.
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But our society iety helps us do that because us being outraged about something
19:06
seems as though that's the thing that we're supposed to be, because that's what
19:10
everybody seems to be all the time, and it's like we've lost the ability
19:15
to be anything else. Right. You know, both you and I talked
19:18
about the Canobi series recently and going through and as a rewatch, and neither
19:22
of us came out of that with glowing reviews. Do we hate the show?
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Do? Do? Do? Do we spend copious amounts of time pointing
19:32
out all the problems with it on online? No? We both do assembling
19:37
Avengers over on the six or two Club. And you know, we we
19:41
talked about some Marvel things in Phase four that we have loathed, and I
19:47
do mean loathed. I don't actually see you talking about Eternals constantly online and
19:56
how it's ruined your life and your enjoyment of Marvel, right, So it
20:02
is very strange. I think Star Wars is special, and part of that
20:06
is that Star Wars tapped into us this thing that was so intrinsic, like
20:12
George Lucas, tapped into the idea of the hero's journey and the pseudo spirituality
20:19
that so many people were longing for, not only in the seventies, but
20:23
the eighties, nineties, and now into the two thousands, where you know,
20:29
people they're missing something in their life and for a brief moment in time,
20:34
for many people, that gave it to them and they can't get that
20:40
back, right, And I think that, you know, it's it's what
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I said back when we did the Superman episode on the six zero two Club,
20:48
I think it was episode eighty nine, and I said, when we
20:51
were talking about the Man of Steel version, it's like Superman hasn't changed,
20:56
but we've changed. Star Wars haven't hasn't changed, but for many people,
21:00
they've changed, and they can't rectify the way in which that change actually reflects
21:07
badly on them. Not the actual content, well, I would say not
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even not even badly, so much as you know, there are things that
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I enjoyed as when I was younger that I enjoyed that context, and it's
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I mean, I think the only the only way I can possibly square this
21:27
circle is to say that Star Wars became such a cultural force that it's value
21:36
is disproportionate to its role. Oh yeah, oh yeah. It used to
21:41
be in the eighties, everybody loved to make fun of Star Trek fans,
21:45
I mean, openly mocked Trek eas And now it seems as if there was
21:55
a warning there, something that we recognized intrinsically that it was danger risk to
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make so much of your identity entwined with that piece of entertainment absolutely that you
22:11
enjoyed. I mean, I think keep in mind, keep in mind before
22:15
anybody thinks I'm saying anything too negative, but before you respond, you talk
22:18
to a guy that has Star Wars tattoos on his arms. Yeah, okay,
22:22
so I'm not. I'm not putting a boundary on anyone, because that's
22:27
how entwined it is with my brain pattern. So just when I said what
22:33
I said, I didn't say it to put limits on anybody's way of enjoying
22:37
something. Just I feel like we need to always put those sort of qualifiers
22:41
out there. Yeah, you know, I think what you said is the
22:47
danger if we put our identity in things that are temporal. They're always going
22:53
to let us down, you know, to get super philosophical, right,
22:56
And I think that's the problem of wrapping up our identity and anything that's in
23:03
the shifting sands. Like entertainment. You know, there's gonna be ups and
23:07
downs. There's ups and downs to Star Wars, you know. I mean,
23:11
it's it's not as though each of us are even sitting here and saying,
23:15
you know what, every Star Wars movie is a five star movie.
23:18
I don't think either of us would say that, and so I might.
23:25
I'll put it this way. None of us is sitting here defending the Holiday
23:27
special, right, yeah, I mean well, and okay, even as
23:33
much as I love the Clone Wars or Rebels or you know, any of
23:37
the animated series, right, I don't love every single episode the same.
23:45
That's true, you know, it's about loving the whole exactly, and so
23:49
you know, I think I think the biggest thing that I would say is
23:55
this, if something an entertainment is not bringing you the same amount of happiness,
24:03
then it's okay to stop watching it. And I also think it's okay
24:08
to say, you know what, I liked those first two movies but I
24:11
don't really like anything else. And to really, you know, not be
24:17
a fan of something, you don't have to be a fan of Star Wars.
24:22
If you don't really like most of Star Wars, that's okay. I'm
24:26
not going to pull it against you. Like you know, it's like,
24:32
I'm still a James Bond fan, though, and I don't like a bunch
24:34
of those movies, you know, most of them Roger Moore movies. But
24:38
that's a different story that you know. That is actually a fantastic comparison there,
24:45
because both of us are James Bond fans. But you give me a
24:51
you give me a day and a half to curb Stop Moon Raker, I'll
24:53
spend all day absolutely taking a sledgehammer to that movie. I like that.
25:00
Oh yeah, but I still exactly what I love, right, Like I
25:06
mean, but and the same could be said for like, you know,
25:08
Octopusy or A View to a Kill. It's like, oh my gosh,
25:12
please never make me watch those movies again. But at the same time so
25:18
bad. Yeah, But but at the same time, the like you said,
25:22
it's the overall hole that I love of James Bond. And yes,
25:27
there are some that I can like I mean, gosh, give me on
25:32
Her Majesty's Secret Service, or you know, Casino Royal Goldfinger from Russia with
25:38
love, I mean some just amazing yeah and that yes, No, I
25:45
mean Roger Moore's greatest right there, so hands down, you know. But
25:52
yes, I love some of these films so much, but I don't love
25:56
the entire hole. And that's okay. But you know, I think when
26:00
you get down to it, if somebody literally only likes the first two Star
26:03
Wars films and they don't like anything else, you know, I think that's
26:07
the point. It's like, if you only liked to James Bond films of
26:11
twenty five films, you're not a fan. You're just a fan of a
26:15
couple of movies. The same thing with stars, and it's okay to be
26:18
that. I don't want to take that away from anyone. I don't have
26:23
a problem if that's if that's where you are, I mean, you know
26:27
what, I'll disagree with you, but whatever, it's fine. It's in
26:32
the end, it's literally just entertainment and it's here to bring us some happiness
26:38
in a world that's you know, just insane. So if you don't enjoy
26:44
something go find something you do enjoy and enjoy that. Yeah, let's all
26:49
be happy? How about that? I mean, so don't worry or funny
26:52
happy? You know now I got that song in my head. You're welcome.
26:59
You know that was my way of thanking you because we've undoubtedly misstated something
27:04
or probably traud across the line. Where can people find you online? To
27:08
go? Oh? Yes, please? Do I like being yelled at in
27:14
social media? Please a Matt Rushing Show two and Twitter, Instagram, letterbox
27:19
and varro or the place I'm most active. Of course, you can also
27:22
find me here on the Network without Post, talked about every single chapter of
27:26
the Harry Potter series with Drey Kaufman. You can also find me on the
27:29
TFM network I mentioned with the six or two club talking about all the franchise
27:33
we love outside of Star Trek, and then inside of Star Trek you'll find
27:37
me doing literary treks, the Orb Warp five, the Artificial Tango and Saddle
27:41
Up. But John, you know, if people are thinking, you know,
27:47
I've never I've never heard a voice of wisdom so wonderful, where could
27:52
they find you? Oh my gosh, I don't know what voice you're hearing
27:56
in your head, but it ain't mine. But you can find me as
27:57
Kessel Junkie online, and you can find me here on the network of co
28:02
hosting a show called house Lights, where I, you know, every so
28:06
often get to torture my co hosts with movies they haven't encountered ext me too,
28:11
but boy, tune in for that one fact. Can't wait. That's
28:17
gonna be pretty great. Oh, that's gonna be awesome. A movie I
28:21
can't stop watching, but I don't love it's weird, you know. Yeah,
28:26
anyway, it's gonna be anyway totally different stories. So yeah, you
28:30
know, but anyway, you know, before this goes anymore, off the
28:34
rails, Master Rushing, I think it's time to close these negotiations, John,
28:38
Negotiations closed. Join the revolution, Join the nerd Party.