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The October Surprise · Conspiracy! The Show

0:10
Speaker 1: Welcome to Conspiracy The Show, the world's most trusted conspiracy
0:16
Speaker 1: theory podcast, with your hosts Adam Todd Brown and Olivia Hidar.
0:33
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy The Show. I'm your host,
0:39
Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown joining me his co host, ooh, my
0:42
Speaker 2: favorite co host of all No co host, but I
0:45
Speaker 2: do have a couple of guest co hosts. Connor Expad
0:48
Speaker 2: and John Lewis are here. You know Connor and John Right, everybody,
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Speaker 2: I don't know who I'm asking for people listening, Yeah,
0:53
Speaker 2: they know you.
0:54
Speaker 3: Hey, thank you both for doing the show. Connor, how's
0:57
Speaker 3: it going good?
0:57
Speaker 4: I took me and Adam both need a little sleep?
0:59
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of qualifiers in that intro.
1:02
Speaker 2: I'm running on fumes, but that's fine. We're talking about
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Speaker 2: a subject I'm passionate about this week, so I'll perk U.
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Speaker 4: Yes, this is a good one.
1:10
Speaker 3: Yeah. John Lewis, how are you doing?
1:12
Speaker 5: I'm all right. I'm three hours in the future, so
1:14
Speaker 5: it's a little bit later on here.
1:16
Speaker 2: Oh that's right. It's going to be tomorrow where you
1:18
Speaker 2: are before it's tomorrow where we are. Crazy man, I'm
1:21
Speaker 2: smoking a lot of weed while we do this.
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Speaker 4: Will you tell me if I get my life together tomorrow?
1:27
Speaker 4: We call me if I'm if I figured it all out.
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Speaker 5: Sure, I'm trying to give you guys some early Lottel
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Speaker 5: numbers too.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I appreciate that.
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Speaker 3: That would be great.
1:35
Speaker 2: We're talking about the October Surprise, which is the theory
1:40
Speaker 2: that Reagan campaign officials conspired to delay the release of
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Speaker 2: American hostages in Iran until after the nineteen eighty election
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Speaker 2: so as to ruin President Jimmy Carter's chances of winning
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Speaker 2: re election. It's a claim that's never been conclusively proven,
2:01
Speaker 2: but it's totally been proven.
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Speaker 4: It's such a good idea. There's no way that they
2:05
Speaker 4: thought of it and didn't try it. Yeah, you know,
2:08
Speaker 4: as far as a political maneuver goes.
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Speaker 5: And they also weren't subtle about it at all.
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Speaker 2: No, And I said this before we started recording. I'm
2:16
Speaker 2: really concerned something like this could happen with Israel because
2:21
Speaker 2: the two sides that are running for president right now,
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Speaker 2: the incumbent Joe Biden, is actively aiding the genocide there,
2:30
Speaker 2: but also he's at least saying, hey, can you stop
2:33
Speaker 2: killing civilians? It's getting over the top. Man Meanwhile, Trump
2:37
Speaker 2: is like, finish what you started. I just want Israel
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Speaker 2: to finish what you started. I could very much see
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Speaker 2: someone from the Trump campaign getting in Israel's ear and
2:46
Speaker 2: being like, Hey, if you wait till we're an office,
2:49
Speaker 2: you can end this war however the fuck you want.
2:52
Speaker 2: And that's not quite the same thing, because at least
2:56
Speaker 2: with what Reagan did, there was a positive outcome in
2:59
Speaker 2: that American hostages were released, and in this case it
3:02
Speaker 2: would just be Gaza getting nuked.
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Speaker 3: But that difference aside, I.
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Speaker 2: Could see this being a strategy that people use with Israel.
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Speaker 5: Am I thinking of another hostage situation? Or wasn't a
3:13
Speaker 5: movie made about this? Were they sent a fake Hollywood
3:17
Speaker 5: crew over? Or is that another one?
3:20
Speaker 3: Are you talking about? Argo?
3:21
Speaker 4: Yeah?
3:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, Argo, they got people out of the Canadian embassy, right.
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Speaker 5: I've never seen I just knew it was something about
3:30
Speaker 5: the hostage situation, Like I just kidding, I have seen that. That's
3:35
Speaker 5: what I said in my tinkative, but I knew it
3:37
Speaker 5: has something to do with a hostage situation. I'm like,
3:39
Speaker 5: I thought it took place in the eight.
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Speaker 4: Seeing as it's been forty years since they've pulled this one.
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Speaker 4: I feel like it's about time for them to try
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Speaker 4: to back out the all hold the hostages, to fuck
3:49
Speaker 4: up the negotiations move. You know, it's like Nixon and
3:52
Speaker 4: Kissinger keeping the Vietnam War going for your political average.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that also happened, and yeah, I can absolutely see
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Speaker 2: it happening with Israel and with Reagan. This is a
4:04
Speaker 2: thing that I feel like there's a lot of questions
4:07
Speaker 2: about the October surprise part, the part where the CIA,
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Speaker 2: or at least a man who went on to be
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Speaker 2: the director of the CIA and the vice president also
4:17
Speaker 2: former director of the CIA. We talk a lot about
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Speaker 2: the October Surprise part, but think about what happens next.
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Speaker 2: This is a thing I've brought up so many times
4:27
Speaker 2: in regards to the CIA. The Carter administration was really
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Speaker 2: clamping down on the CIA and what they could do
4:34
Speaker 2: in this country, and we were fresh off the Church
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Speaker 2: Committee hearings and everyone was talking about all the limits
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Speaker 2: we needed to put on the CIA, and out of nowhere,
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Speaker 2: for the first time in history, the current director of
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Speaker 2: the CIA decides, you know what, I'm going to run
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Speaker 2: for vice president and he does, and the CIA pulls
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Speaker 2: a bunch of strings and they win, and then what
4:55
Speaker 2: happens next Reagan almost gets assassinated in very weird mkulture fashion,
5:00
Speaker 2: and no one adds that tag to the October surprise
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Speaker 2: when they're talking about the CIA, because what about that part?
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Speaker 3: If that worked, the CIA was.
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Speaker 2: President then, because George Bush would have been president. That
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Speaker 2: feels like the logical extension of this and we're just
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Speaker 2: too scared to talk about it.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's an interesting one. It's like, who else but
5:20
Speaker 4: the deep state could really be doing this over and
5:22
Speaker 4: over again. Why does this keep happening this way? Why
5:24
Speaker 4: is it always a guy and there's a native, the
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Speaker 4: Queen of Diamonds and all this shit, but it's never
5:29
Speaker 4: just a kook with a rifle. I mean that we
5:31
Speaker 4: haven't done that since sixty three.
5:33
Speaker 2: Even the Nipsey Hustle assassination felt weird to me. I mean,
5:36
Speaker 2: it felt like an assassination.
5:37
Speaker 4: My buddy was telling me that he was all getting
5:39
Speaker 4: into all that doctor cbe cure cancer with alkaline water,
5:43
Speaker 4: whatever the fuck shit, and I said that was part
5:45
Speaker 4: of the reason that he got got I've heard that.
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Speaker 5: I mean, in the defense of rappers, that's everyday common
5:51
Speaker 5: black folks.
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Speaker 4: So I'm.
5:54
Speaker 5: Red Black folks believe that doctor Cebe and all that
5:56
Speaker 5: crazy shit.
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Speaker 2: So in by that line of Nick Cannon would be
6:00
Speaker 2: assassinated because he just started working on that documentary.
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Speaker 4: Next, I think, how are we gonna lie in that
6:06
Speaker 4: as Nick Cannon? When he dies? That's going to be
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Speaker 4: an interesting legacy.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, that will be Nick Cannon. I don't know. Didn't
6:12
Speaker 5: you say you got cancer?
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Speaker 4: Or no?
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Speaker 5: Maybe he did.
6:15
Speaker 4: You're thinking of Nick cancer.
6:16
Speaker 3: Doctor sebby Apricot Pits.
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Speaker 2: So the October Surprise, it's an incident that is alleged
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Speaker 2: to have happened in nineteen seventy nine, has talked about
6:26
Speaker 2: over the years as a thing that maybe happened. But
6:28
Speaker 2: the first time someone really came forward and we'll link
6:31
Speaker 2: to all this in the notes and said conclusively, hey,
6:35
Speaker 2: this did happen in a major way was a New
6:38
Speaker 2: York Times writer named Gary Sick.
6:40
Speaker 4: Also one of my favorite punk front men.
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Speaker 5: Yeah right, that is an amazing stage name.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.
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Speaker 4: Great, Steve Ignorant, Gary Sick, you know the goats.
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Speaker 2: The article was called the Election Story of the Decade,
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Speaker 2: and the first thing it points to is the very
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Speaker 2: suspicious detail that it's not like Reagan took office, and
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Speaker 2: oh Man a week later, he just as if by magic,
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Speaker 2: managed to get the hostages released. They were literally released
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Speaker 2: five minutes after he was inaugurated, exactly five minutes.
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Speaker 5: People hadn't even got drunk enough to pass out or
7:20
Speaker 5: make it to the after party. Five minutes. See, they
7:22
Speaker 5: try and bury that shit. It is something like when
7:24
Speaker 5: they suspended Player on a Friday afternoon so nobody could
7:27
Speaker 5: talk about it.
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Speaker 2: I feel like they were trying to throw it in
7:30
Speaker 2: Carter's face a little bit.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's one of these things. Even if you're a
7:33
Speaker 4: Reagan Stan how do you reconcile intellectually the notion that
7:38
Speaker 4: they got it done in five minutes the moment he
7:40
Speaker 4: became resident.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems like they did that on purpose, like
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Speaker 2: they wanted to really rub Carter's face in it and
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Speaker 2: let him know.
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Speaker 4: They're clearly have had some kind of backtrail going. And
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Speaker 4: if you had that, then why didn't you do it earlier?
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Speaker 3: So there's that.
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Speaker 2: Then we find out we meaning the world that shortly
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Speaker 2: after that part happened, and arms start flowing to Iran,
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Speaker 2: and I don't mean limbs, I mean like military weapons,
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Speaker 2: which worth noting there was sanctions in place on Iran
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Speaker 2: at the time, a full embargo that Reagan did not
8:16
Speaker 2: have enough time to have lifted by that point, so
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Speaker 2: arms start flowing to Iran through Israel. And the guy
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Speaker 2: who wrote this article he worked in the Carter administration
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Speaker 2: until that ended, and then worked on the staff of
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Speaker 2: the National Security Council after that until eighty one. He
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Speaker 2: says he heard about this in eighty one and it
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Speaker 2: first brushed it off as a conspiracy theory, and then
8:41
Speaker 2: started researching a book about the Reagan administration and their
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Speaker 2: dealings with Iran, and that's where he started noticing all
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Speaker 2: these patterns and was like, oh shit, maybe it's a
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Speaker 2: real thing, which I don't know. I feel like people
8:57
Speaker 2: don't do that kind of investigative journalism these days, not
9:02
Speaker 2: about the government.
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Speaker 4: Well, even if you do, who's going to print it?
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Speaker 4: You know? Yeah, you do it all and then it's
9:07
Speaker 4: on mindpressnews dot com or whatever and you got fourigner
9:11
Speaker 4: bucks or something. There's like nineteen real journalists left. Yeah,
9:15
Speaker 4: I don't know who they are, don't ask me, but.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're all on substacker medium probably.
9:20
Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 5: And also Reagan was such a shitty president. Depending on
9:24
Speaker 5: who you were. This probably isn't even the biggest Alesh
9:27
Speaker 5: conspiracy because he also pumped metric tons of cocaine into
9:31
Speaker 5: the black neighborhood with the Ird scandal. All this shit
9:34
Speaker 5: happened with him his first term.
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Speaker 3: Right, this part happens before he's even elected.
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Speaker 4: Okay, okay, got you.
9:41
Speaker 5: Yeah, but they were freed after he inaugurated.
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Speaker 2: Technically Carter worked out that deal, which had to be
9:48
Speaker 2: a little bittersweet for him. But this article, it started
9:52
Speaker 2: as a book project and we've already gone through it.
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Speaker 2: But this is a quote about basically the elevator pitch
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Speaker 2: this theory. In the course of hundreds of interviews in
10:02
Speaker 2: the US, Europe, and the Middle East, I have been
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Speaker 2: told repeatedly that individuals associated with the Reagan Bush campaign
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Speaker 2: of nineteen eighty met secretly with Iranian officials to delay
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Speaker 2: the release of the American hostages until after the presidential election.
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Speaker 2: For this favor, Iran was rewarded with a substantial supply
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Speaker 2: of arms from Israel. And one of the obvious reasons
10:27
Speaker 2: this never came of anything is no one wanted to
10:29
Speaker 2: talk about it on the record. Go figure that makes sense,
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Speaker 2: Probably get murdered.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, and what's your prize. Guys like us think you're cool.
10:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, you're a hero.
10:40
Speaker 4: Now. A bunch of fucking people that nobody likes champion
10:44
Speaker 4: you and turn your family's lives upside down with fucking
10:47
Speaker 4: lunatics finding your personal information to bother you about their
10:51
Speaker 4: private affairs, or you could just shut the fuck up,
10:53
Speaker 4: you know.
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Speaker 5: And yeah, the average American is going to be like, Okay,
10:56
Speaker 5: they were still free, so.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that would be the It's a
11:00
Speaker 2: lot of people would take it's like big deal. They
11:02
Speaker 2: got out, and it's like they were hostages and the
11:06
Speaker 2: incoming president was like, just keep them for a little bit,
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Speaker 2: bring them home eventually it's fine. That is highly goddamn unethical,
11:13
Speaker 2: if nothing else, very dangerous.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, they could have died in that time, right, they were.
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Speaker 2: At war essentially at that time, there was all kinds
11:21
Speaker 2: of political unrest.
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Speaker 3: Iran was not a safe place. So to leave them there.
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Speaker 2: Just so you could win an election, I guess that's
11:28
Speaker 2: how you make America great again.
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Speaker 3: That was Reagan's slogan too.
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Speaker 2: So according to these sources that Gary Sick talked to
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Speaker 2: William Casey, who was then Reagan's campaign manager but future
11:41
Speaker 2: CIA director, met with a man named Jomsheed Hans Shem
11:45
Speaker 2: and international arms.
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Speaker 3: Dealer excuse you, with ties to the.
11:52
Speaker 2: Iranian government at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington. I bet
11:56
Speaker 2: that's a pretty nice hotel if it's still open, And
12:00
Speaker 2: he made it known that he wanted to prevent Jimmy
12:03
Speaker 2: Carter from gaining any political advantage from the Iranian hostage crisis.
12:08
Speaker 2: We don't really have enough time to go into all
12:10
Speaker 2: the details of that, but it's exactly what it sounds like.
12:13
Speaker 2: A bunch of students seized the American embassy in Iran
12:18
Speaker 2: and took a whole bunch of people hostage, including the
12:21
Speaker 2: father of a girl I used to work with at Playboy.
12:25
Speaker 4: Shit.
12:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was a writer.
12:27
Speaker 5: Also, she wasn't a model.
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Speaker 2: No, No, I made that sound way more scandalous than
12:31
Speaker 2: it was. Not that it would be scandalous to be
12:33
Speaker 2: a model at Playboy either, but it's just.
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Speaker 5: A weird trajectory. My dad got kid Knack and Iran,
12:39
Speaker 5: so I became a Playboy model. Yeah.
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Speaker 3: I don't know if the two would have been completely related.
12:46
Speaker 4: I don't know. There's guys in there were on the
12:48
Speaker 4: Amazing Race for four episodes that got into life coaching.
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Speaker 4: It doesn't have to make sense.
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Speaker 2: So the goal here was to keep Carter from scoring
12:56
Speaker 2: political points by successfully negotiating for the release of these hostages,
13:02
Speaker 2: and William Casey and Ronald Reagan maybe were ready to
13:06
Speaker 2: deal to make it happen. That's always the question about
13:09
Speaker 2: Reagan is did he even know any of this shit
13:13
Speaker 2: was happening? And the deeper you get into his presidency,
13:16
Speaker 2: I don't know if he knew anything that was happening
13:20
Speaker 2: related to his administration or just in general, because it
13:24
Speaker 2: seems like he had dementia while he was.
13:27
Speaker 5: In office, even during his first term.
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Speaker 4: I don't think during his first term, I think he
13:31
Speaker 4: honestly just liked the part where he got to spin
13:34
Speaker 4: these folksy yarns and shit. So I think he probably
13:37
Speaker 4: just sat around looking at his lines, good actor that
13:40
Speaker 4: he was, and cared very little about what was going
13:43
Speaker 4: on beneath him.
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Speaker 2: There is a very famous quote from Reagan where an
13:48
Speaker 2: interviewer asks him if he thinks being an actor helped
13:53
Speaker 2: during his years as president, and his response was, I
13:56
Speaker 2: don't know how you'd be a good president without being
13:59
Speaker 2: a good act.
14:00
Speaker 4: Wow.
14:01
Speaker 5: You see what's honest.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's honest.
14:04
Speaker 4: Really giving away the whole game there, Ronnie.
14:06
Speaker 2: And also to go back to my theory for a
14:11
Speaker 2: second that maybe the CIA was behind him getting shot.
14:15
Speaker 2: If that's the case, what are the chances he survived
14:19
Speaker 2: and someone got in his ear and was like, all right,
14:23
Speaker 2: I guess we are stuck together for the next few years.
14:26
Speaker 2: You are going to do what the fuck we say,
14:29
Speaker 2: or you'll get shot again.
14:31
Speaker 5: Probably that had to be just a warning because you
14:33
Speaker 5: would think the CIA would have somebody more talented. Didn't
14:36
Speaker 5: the guy shoot him from only a few feet away.
14:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, just fucking watched it, right.
14:41
Speaker 4: Someone should do a CIA kill death ratio on their
14:45
Speaker 4: coup attempts. They're probably kind of low batting average. They
14:48
Speaker 4: tried to kill cash Trail four hundred times and couldn't
14:50
Speaker 4: do it. They tried to put poison in a swimsuit
14:53
Speaker 4: and gave it to him as a gift. You and
14:54
Speaker 4: know all kinds of shit.
14:56
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I heard once on they made a
14:58
Speaker 5: camera gun or something that was supposed to fire one bullet.
15:01
Speaker 5: But I guess we're building stuff like that. It's hard
15:03
Speaker 5: to make a high They.
15:04
Speaker 4: Had everything a gun he went, if he went to
15:06
Speaker 4: a ballgame, there was a guy with a hot dog gun.
15:08
Speaker 4: You know.
15:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, the CIA was way into that for a while.
15:12
Speaker 2: What can we make into a gun? The shellfish tocsin
15:16
Speaker 2: gun is still my favorite.
15:18
Speaker 4: I think the show Gets Smartest probably depicts the CIA
15:21
Speaker 4: more accurately than any age. I'm actually sixty years old.
15:24
Speaker 5: I was about to say, I've heard of a movie
15:26
Speaker 5: Get Smart. I think I knew it was. Ah, I've
15:28
Speaker 5: never seen it.
15:28
Speaker 4: Hoop on TV land and get acquainted. It's a fucking banker, dude,
15:31
Speaker 4: Get Smart rules.
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Speaker 3: So yeah.
15:34
Speaker 2: This source that Gary Sick talked to who claims that
15:38
Speaker 2: he first talked to William Casey. He says he set
15:41
Speaker 2: up these meetings in Madrid, Spain, between Casey and in
15:46
Speaker 2: Iranian cleric named Mehdi Karubi, and by the end of
15:50
Speaker 2: those meetings it was agreed that they would work together
15:53
Speaker 2: regarding the release of the hostages in exchange. Again, the
15:57
Speaker 2: Reagan administration promised that once they were in office, they
16:00
Speaker 2: would not only sell arms to Iran through Israel, but
16:04
Speaker 2: also return assets that were frozen by the American government
16:10
Speaker 2: and also helped them acquire military supplies.
16:13
Speaker 3: From what i've read.
16:14
Speaker 2: It seems like that was what got Iran to the
16:18
Speaker 2: table in.
16:18
Speaker 3: The first place.
16:19
Speaker 2: Was the Carter administration not only put this embargo on
16:23
Speaker 2: selling arms to Iran, but also froze all of their
16:26
Speaker 2: assets in the United States. And Iran needed that money,
16:31
Speaker 2: and so Reagan promised to give them that money back,
16:34
Speaker 2: and so those hostages had to stay a little longer.
16:37
Speaker 3: I bet they were treated all right, though.
16:39
Speaker 5: I was thinking that too, But how well could they
16:41
Speaker 5: be treated, because then they get bad when it wasn't
16:44
Speaker 5: that bad. But also they might just chalk it up
16:47
Speaker 5: to people trying to do Stockholm syndrome, because just because
16:50
Speaker 5: he was hostage, you don't got to treat them bad
16:52
Speaker 5: at that point. It's just a bargain and shit.
16:54
Speaker 2: One of the things the CIA does in a situation
16:56
Speaker 2: like that, or the intelligence community in general. I kind
17:00
Speaker 2: of use CIA as a blanket term for American intelligence,
17:03
Speaker 2: But one of the things they'll do in a situation
17:07
Speaker 2: like that is intercept those people before they can talk
17:10
Speaker 2: to anyone, almost like a crooked cop would do, where
17:14
Speaker 2: they pull them aside and try to talk to a
17:16
Speaker 2: person before their lawyer can get there. And the CIA
17:19
Speaker 2: will pull people aside and be like, all right, tell
17:22
Speaker 2: us about your experience, and then they'll tell them, and
17:24
Speaker 2: then they'll be like, all right, well, here's what you're
17:26
Speaker 2: going to tell people your experience was, or here's what
17:29
Speaker 2: you're going to leave out about your story, and not
17:32
Speaker 2: even as a threat, probably just as come on, take
17:36
Speaker 2: one for the team. It's the United States. We need
17:38
Speaker 2: you to make these people look like assholes. More people
17:41
Speaker 2: than not are going to go along with that. You're
17:43
Speaker 2: just happy to be back on American soil in front
17:47
Speaker 2: of a government that you assume is friendly, and.
17:49
Speaker 4: They probably convinced you you're doing something patriotic.
17:53
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, that's what I was wanna say. So many
17:55
Speaker 5: people just blindly trust the government.
17:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's kind of why this show exists.
18:00
Speaker 2: If you don't believe any conspiracy theories, you just implicitly
18:04
Speaker 2: trust the government.
18:04
Speaker 3: That's nuts.
18:06
Speaker 4: I think it might be likely that less people than
18:08
Speaker 4: ever trust the government. But it's not like we're nobody's
18:10
Speaker 4: organizing or doing anything about it.
18:12
Speaker 5: You know, it's just ask Adam about showing a book
18:14
Speaker 5: gets on this show you believe that.
18:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, people are very reluctant to do. This show's conspiracy theories.
18:22
Speaker 4: Only people who have resigned themselves that never working anywhere
18:25
Speaker 4: significant can brave the watters of conspiracy the show.
18:31
Speaker 5: This is tangentially connected. But while we're on the subject
18:34
Speaker 5: of Reagan. I can't remember if I mentioned this on
18:36
Speaker 5: the last podcast, when I was reading this book called
18:38
Speaker 5: The New Jim Crow, and it's essentially about how basically
18:41
Speaker 5: America replaced nineteen sixties Jim Crow with the prison industrial complex.
18:46
Speaker 5: So I might get the dates wrong a little bit,
18:48
Speaker 5: but basically, Ronald Reagan started this whole war on drugs
18:52
Speaker 5: campaign back when drug usage and the rest were at
18:55
Speaker 5: an all time low in America. I think that campaign
18:58
Speaker 5: was in nineteen eighty one, and crack cocaine didn't start
19:02
Speaker 5: showing up into eighty three issue or something like that.
19:05
Speaker 5: So it's just a weird coincidence that we really didn't
19:07
Speaker 5: even have a drug problem. We weren't just throwing up
19:11
Speaker 5: every black person standing on the corner at that time,
19:13
Speaker 5: and then he makes this campaign like, well, guys, we
19:16
Speaker 5: gotta do something about the drugs, and then cocaine just
19:20
Speaker 5: blows up and they locking people up and smoking weed.
19:23
Speaker 3: I love that every person on earth. As a Reagan.
19:27
Speaker 5: Question, it's actually pretty fun to do. This is about
19:32
Speaker 5: eighty HD Bray. Why do all presidents just have a
19:34
Speaker 5: weird voice? You notice that, like almost all of them.
19:37
Speaker 4: Yeah.
19:37
Speaker 3: I think it's just that we picked their voices apart.
19:40
Speaker 4: I think it's like peacocking, like the pickup artist thing
19:43
Speaker 4: where you wear a doctor's hus hats so people remember you.
19:46
Speaker 4: It's just like we gravitate towards unique things.
19:49
Speaker 3: Yeah.
19:50
Speaker 4: So for guy, it's like, you got this weird George
19:52
Speaker 4: hw Bush lilt in his voice is kind of all right, man,
19:56
Speaker 4: for sure.
19:57
Speaker 3: So back to the October surprise.
19:59
Speaker 2: After the these meetings are alleged to have happened, and
20:01
Speaker 2: they met a bunch of times about this. It wasn't
20:04
Speaker 2: just those two meetings. There were I think ten to
20:06
Speaker 2: fifteen meetings, it's been said. But after that, a really
20:09
Speaker 2: weird series of events happens. Carter had been in negotiations
20:14
Speaker 2: with the Iran to get these hostages released, and the
20:18
Speaker 2: thing that was holding it up was there demand for
20:22
Speaker 2: military aid and weapons.
20:24
Speaker 3: Carter didn't want to do that.
20:26
Speaker 2: And after these meetings happened, first Iran just out of
20:29
Speaker 2: the blue drops that demand for military aid. But they're
20:33
Speaker 2: also like and we're done negotiating, you don't want to
20:37
Speaker 2: talk about this anymore. We'll get back with you after
20:41
Speaker 2: the end of the election. And then, as if by magic,
20:45
Speaker 2: five days before the inauguration, Iran is like, all right,
20:49
Speaker 2: we'll talk again, and then they just let the hostages go.
20:52
Speaker 2: Five minutes after the inauguration happens. So I feel like
20:57
Speaker 2: they were being pretty blatant about what happened.
21:01
Speaker 4: What's going on in the Carter administration? Are they just
21:03
Speaker 4: getting the cold shoulder?
21:04
Speaker 2: They at first were making some headway with Iran, but
21:10
Speaker 2: basically part of these meetings involved going out to leaders
21:15
Speaker 2: in these different countries that were either aligned with Iran
21:20
Speaker 2: or going to leaders in Iran, and what they were
21:22
Speaker 2: basically saying is, look, you'll get a better deal from
21:26
Speaker 2: Reagan if you wait and release the hostages under Reagan,
21:30
Speaker 2: you'll get a better deal. Because they were going to
21:32
Speaker 2: have to release those hostages at some point get for
21:37
Speaker 2: no other reason than they needed their assets unfrozen. Reagan's
21:41
Speaker 2: team knew that, or at least Bill Casey knew it,
21:44
Speaker 2: so he sent people out to tell them exactly that
21:48
Speaker 2: if you wait for Reagan, you'll get a better deal,
21:52
Speaker 2: and they agreed to it. And Reagan won and they
21:55
Speaker 2: immediately released the hostages.
21:57
Speaker 5: Nuts. I'm just kind of surprised they or could it
22:00
Speaker 5: in sealten six das shit when they stop negotiating.
22:03
Speaker 2: Oh, I forgot that part. Carter did have a rescue
22:07
Speaker 2: operation planned.
22:09
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I did read that in the
22:11
Speaker 5: note and they moved them.
22:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it The implication seems to be that someone
22:16
Speaker 2: in the Reagan administration knew about and I think it's
22:21
Speaker 2: Gary Six's article that does say someone in either in
22:25
Speaker 2: the Carter administration or familiar with the Carter administration tipped
22:29
Speaker 2: off the Reagan administration about this planned to launch a
22:32
Speaker 2: second rescue operation. And it seems like the implication is
22:36
Speaker 2: the Reagan administration in turn told Iran, and Iran just
22:40
Speaker 2: moved all the hostages, because if they were planning that,
22:44
Speaker 2: they were planning it based on all those hostages being
22:47
Speaker 2: in one place, So you just move them, and it
22:49
Speaker 2: sets that plan back long enough that they can't do
22:52
Speaker 2: it before the election happens.
22:54
Speaker 4: Shady, so shady just kicking the can down the road
22:57
Speaker 4: kind of.
22:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, allegedly, this is all alleged.
23:02
Speaker 5: And the hostages probably won't even believe that. Match and
23:05
Speaker 5: your government save you. Then you it's probably be hard
23:08
Speaker 5: to convince you that they sabotage you for a few months.
23:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, you just be so grateful to be out right.
23:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you almost wouldn't want to question it exactly.
23:17
Speaker 2: And so after all that happens, Reagan wins the election.
23:22
Speaker 2: And this was a story Gary Sick claimed was verified
23:25
Speaker 2: by sources from eight different countries on four continents. The
23:29
Speaker 2: PBS show Frontline did an episode about it shortly after
23:32
Speaker 2: his article was released. They interviewed Gary Sick and a
23:35
Speaker 2: bunch of those sources. I cannot find that episode anywhere.
23:39
Speaker 2: I didn't look that hard, but it's not the kind
23:42
Speaker 2: that just pops up when you search it. I mean
23:44
Speaker 2: some older TV shows and programs like that, you just
23:46
Speaker 2: find them.
23:47
Speaker 5: You said, PBS.
23:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I found a page on the Frontline website about
23:53
Speaker 2: the episode and it has just this episode is unavailable.
23:57
Speaker 5: Probably got to donate like five hundred dollars. It's one
24:00
Speaker 5: of them telephone sest Street rise and get this shit.
24:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, you gotta get a number of tote bags before
24:06
Speaker 4: it's on the table.
24:08
Speaker 5: Yeah, my eight year old broke as it's one of
24:13
Speaker 5: the donut Money's so bad when I was a kid
24:15
Speaker 5: to those I wanted an Elmo cup or something.
24:18
Speaker 3: This was way back in the day.
24:20
Speaker 2: I was super duper high and watching a Grateful Dead
24:23
Speaker 2: concert on PBS.
24:25
Speaker 3: That's how high I was. I was watching a Grateful
24:27
Speaker 3: Dead concert.
24:28
Speaker 2: Don't like them at all as a band, but I
24:31
Speaker 2: was so into this concert. For one second, I was like,
24:34
Speaker 2: maybe I will pay one hundred and fifty dollars for
24:37
Speaker 2: a copy of this on CV, And then I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait,
24:41
Speaker 2: I bet I can just buy this somewhere right, I
24:43
Speaker 2: bet I can just get this in stores for like
24:44
Speaker 2: twenty nine ninety nine.
24:46
Speaker 3: You sure can.
24:47
Speaker 2: It's just a regular ass Grateful Dead CD that.
24:50
Speaker 3: You can buy. They were like one hundred and fifty dollars,
24:53
Speaker 3: So get you this on CD.
24:55
Speaker 4: Those motherfuckers. The markup on jam band rock is unbelievable. Yeah,
25:01
Speaker 4: it's like French Friesaysota. It's the profit margin is huge.
25:04
Speaker 2: So that nineteen ninety one article it led to a
25:07
Speaker 2: congressional investigation that never really amounted to anything, and it
25:12
Speaker 2: seems like a lot of it hinged on them not
25:15
Speaker 2: being able to prove William Casey was ever in Madrid
25:19
Speaker 2: for those first two meetings, but in twenty eleven, investigative
25:24
Speaker 2: journalist Robert Perry found a memo in the George HW.
25:29
Speaker 2: Bush Presidential Library archives that confirmed Casey was in Madrid.
25:35
Speaker 2: It was a ninety one memo from Deputy White House
25:39
Speaker 2: Council Paul Beach. He was responding to a subpoena from
25:44
Speaker 2: the committee that eventually investigated this told them he had
25:47
Speaker 2: just met with a counterpart at the State Department named
25:50
Speaker 2: Ed Williamson. And this is a quote in this regard
25:54
Speaker 2: Ed mentioned only a cable from the Madrid embassy indicating
25:58
Speaker 2: that Bill Casey was into for purposes unknown end quote.
26:03
Speaker 3: Whoops.
26:04
Speaker 2: And even then this is still just considered like, ooh,
26:08
Speaker 2: did it happen.
26:09
Speaker 5: Huge just on holiday. Yeah, there's nothing to see here.
26:13
Speaker 4: When you do this shit, it's not that nobody can
26:14
Speaker 4: ever find out. It's that they can't find out until
26:17
Speaker 4: nobody gives a shit. Once nobody gives a shit, then
26:20
Speaker 4: it's like, yeah, hey, look we did it. This is
26:22
Speaker 4: how suck our dicks. We're probably doing something now.
26:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.
26:26
Speaker 2: That's one of the tenets of the Freedom of Information
26:28
Speaker 2: Act request is yeah, we'll tell you anything after like
26:32
Speaker 2: twenty five years.
26:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was the old US.
26:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gonna have to chill out first, don't be
26:40
Speaker 2: so emotional.
26:41
Speaker 3: Then we'll send it to you.
26:43
Speaker 5: And also we could black out seventy percent of it
26:45
Speaker 5: if we want.
26:46
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that too. Yeah.
26:48
Speaker 2: So many files have been released that just leave more
26:52
Speaker 2: questions than they answer.
26:54
Speaker 3: And the one I'll always go back to is Elvis.
26:57
Speaker 2: Why are one hundred pages of his FBI file still
27:00
Speaker 2: concealed for national security reasons?
27:04
Speaker 4: We know everything about this man. We died in the
27:06
Speaker 4: shitter for God's sakes, you know.
27:08
Speaker 5: Shit, man, I was reading Muhammad Ali's Freedom of Information.
27:12
Speaker 5: I think I read four hundred pages and I was
27:13
Speaker 5: going to volume two or fifteen or something. Crazy. They
27:17
Speaker 5: were on his ass about everything. Yeah, it's one that
27:20
Speaker 5: was like, yeah, Muhammad Ali traveled to do buyer some
27:24
Speaker 5: country and he got a gift and we're going to
27:27
Speaker 5: arrest him because he didn't claim the gift on customs
27:30
Speaker 5: or something like that. And I think they did arrest.
27:32
Speaker 5: It was the craziest shit. Like I always say, black folks,
27:36
Speaker 5: we don't trust the government, so we more successful to
27:39
Speaker 5: believe the conspiracies. But when you tell liberals sit about
27:42
Speaker 5: this from the government, and be like, Oh no, that's
27:44
Speaker 5: ritling stuff. When you start talking about conspiracy, do you
27:47
Speaker 5: not see what the hell is going on? You think
27:49
Speaker 5: crack just magically showed up. You think these houseses literally
27:53
Speaker 5: five minutes just got freed after inauguration? What are you
27:56
Speaker 5: talking about?
27:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one seems pretty obvious to me. All of
28:01
Speaker 2: Reagan's stuff gets so well documented, aside from the invasion
28:06
Speaker 2: of Panama. If you ever dig into the invasion of Panama,
28:10
Speaker 2: one of the most alarming aspects of it is there's
28:15
Speaker 2: some military guy I don't remember who, some high ranking
28:19
Speaker 2: military guy who's like, well, the reason things went so
28:22
Speaker 2: well in Panama and why we were able to get
28:24
Speaker 2: in and get out so quick is the media wasn't
28:27
Speaker 2: allowed in, so we could just do whatever we wanted.
28:31
Speaker 2: And damn think of the implications of what he's saying.
28:34
Speaker 4: Right, If there was no media, then I would run
28:37
Speaker 4: him up over the entire world.
28:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no media.
28:41
Speaker 2: So we could just do whatever we wanted and that
28:44
Speaker 2: war was over in days, I think two or three days,
28:47
Speaker 2: and there were a couple I think Grenado. We did
28:50
Speaker 2: the same thing under Reagan. I'm surprised we stopped with
28:54
Speaker 2: the first Gulf War.
28:56
Speaker 3: We put a lot.
28:57
Speaker 2: Of restrictions on the media that weren't in place during
29:01
Speaker 2: even the Vietnam War. But yeah, during those little minor
29:04
Speaker 2: Latin American invasions, I mean minor by our standards, probably
29:09
Speaker 2: meant a lot to those countries. We don't know. We
29:11
Speaker 2: don't know what happened. There are no pictures from the
29:14
Speaker 2: invasion of Panama.
29:15
Speaker 3: I believe one of them. There's no pictures.
29:18
Speaker 5: Some of these lasted for such a short time. I've
29:21
Speaker 5: never even heard the Panama The only thing I know
29:23
Speaker 5: about the Golf War is the badass Bart Simpson t
29:26
Speaker 5: shirts in there, and that's the only.
29:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Van Halen song Panama lasted longer than our
29:32
Speaker 2: invasion of Panama fucking three minutes. So, along with Robert
29:37
Speaker 2: Perry finding that memo in twenty twenty three for a
29:41
Speaker 2: reason we'll get to in a second, a bunch of
29:43
Speaker 2: people started writing about this again, and it was almost
29:47
Speaker 2: sort of a victory lap where people were like, confirmed,
29:50
Speaker 2: this is confirmed. The October surprise happened. One of the
29:54
Speaker 2: first articles that came out in March twenty twenty three
29:57
Speaker 2: was kind of a follow up article from Gary Sis
30:00
Speaker 2: written with three other investigative journalists who had all worked
30:04
Speaker 2: on this before, and they in part because of the
30:07
Speaker 2: Robert Perry memo, but also because of another recent development.
30:11
Speaker 2: We're kind of like it's a closed case. And here's why.
30:15
Speaker 2: We'll link to the article. They run through a lot
30:19
Speaker 2: of different reasons why they think this is confirmed history.
30:23
Speaker 2: On top of that, the Intercept also in March twenty
30:26
Speaker 2: twenty three published in article detailing all of the various
30:31
Speaker 2: people in groups that have confirmed the October surprise happened.
30:35
Speaker 2: Some of the names on that list former Iranian President
30:39
Speaker 2: abul Hassan Bonni Sadir, former Israeli Prime Minister yitsak Shmir.
30:44
Speaker 2: Former Palestinian Liberation Organization had Yasser Arafat, So that's a
30:49
Speaker 2: very diverse line up there. Former French intelligence had Alexander
30:54
Speaker 2: demarn Schick, the Russian government, which don't even put that
30:57
Speaker 2: one on the list. People aren't going to take it seriously.
31:00
Speaker 4: The Rizza, the Jizza inspected deck Ray Kwan, the chef
31:05
Speaker 4: you got in the method man.
31:09
Speaker 5: Russia probably hated that Hashi to do with it. They
31:12
Speaker 5: just wanted to get jump in with it.
31:13
Speaker 4: Yeah we seen Hashi. Yeah, Russia's just a hating Honus
31:16
Speaker 4: in general, so who knows.
31:20
Speaker 5: They're like, what you need is to cosie.
31:22
Speaker 3: And also the George HW.
31:24
Speaker 2: Bush White House makes the list because of that memo
31:27
Speaker 2: that went out in nineteen ninety one while Bush was
31:31
Speaker 2: in office. But the reason they all started coming forward
31:35
Speaker 2: to take this sort of victory lap in March twenty
31:38
Speaker 2: twenty three is because the man who did it came
31:40
Speaker 2: forward once Jimmy Carter entered hospice care. This guy named
31:45
Speaker 2: Ben Barnes, who was at one point a very influential
31:49
Speaker 2: Texas politician.
31:51
Speaker 3: He was a protege of former Texas Governor.
31:54
Speaker 2: John Connolly, who I don't know if he's been involved
31:57
Speaker 2: in any other conspiracy theories.
31:59
Speaker 3: Maybe people should look into it. JFK. He was in
32:01
Speaker 3: the JFK car.
32:03
Speaker 2: According to Ben Barnes, John Connolly was like, look, going
32:05
Speaker 2: on this trip, and what I need you to do
32:09
Speaker 2: is go to these different world leaders and tell them
32:12
Speaker 2: that if Iran waits for Reagan to be in office,
32:15
Speaker 2: they'll get a better deal. Ben Barnes claims he is
32:19
Speaker 2: the person who was told to deliver that message. He
32:23
Speaker 2: said he came forward because Jimmy Carter was dying and
32:26
Speaker 2: he felt like Jimmy Carter got kind of a raw
32:28
Speaker 2: deal in that way, which true, and he said at
32:33
Speaker 2: the time he didn't quite know what he was doing.
32:35
Speaker 2: And I have no idea how that would be the case.
32:38
Speaker 2: How would you not know what the implications behind delivering
32:41
Speaker 2: a message like that are. I think he's just trying
32:44
Speaker 2: to make himself feel better.
32:46
Speaker 4: I imagine these guys have to do a lot of mental
32:48
Speaker 4: gymnastics with this job to just go home and sleep
32:52
Speaker 4: at night. Yeah, you got to come up with some
32:54
Speaker 4: to tell yourself. Yeah.
32:55
Speaker 2: And it's weird how this has transformed over the year
33:00
Speaker 2: from just a story in the newspapers that legitimate outlets
33:06
Speaker 2: were reporting on. Well linked to the first Gary sick article,
33:11
Speaker 2: but the link is actually kind of a database of
33:15
Speaker 2: all of the press reporting on the October surprise, and
33:18
Speaker 2: it's really really long, and it's all the mainstream outlets,
33:22
Speaker 2: and they're just like, Hey, what the fuck, what did
33:25
Speaker 2: Reagan know?
33:26
Speaker 3: Did this happen?
33:27
Speaker 2: And if this happened now, all of those people would
33:31
Speaker 2: be called conspiracy theorists. This is kind of reset to
33:35
Speaker 2: the point where it's back to just being a conspiracy theory.
33:39
Speaker 3: But there's no way it didn't happen. It obviously happened,
33:42
Speaker 3: And I don't know.
33:43
Speaker 2: I just think it's fascinating how the relationship with the
33:47
Speaker 2: word conspiracy theory has developed since CIA guy was our president,
33:52
Speaker 2: George Bush.
33:53
Speaker 5: I think it was Colin Kywher who was actually talking
33:56
Speaker 5: about that the other day, like how it kind of
33:58
Speaker 5: flipped side between conspiracies and how people look at censorship.
34:03
Speaker 5: He was saying something like, back in the eighties, to
34:05
Speaker 5: people that complained about censorship would be the liberals. I
34:09
Speaker 5: forgot what example he used, But now he's like, now
34:12
Speaker 5: it's the right that wants to ban books and stuff.
34:14
Speaker 5: I'm messing up as metaphor, but like you said, now
34:16
Speaker 5: it's the right that wants to ban books and tell
34:18
Speaker 5: you what books your kids can't read. But twenty years
34:22
Speaker 5: ago they were the ones complaining about censorship. But now
34:25
Speaker 5: they're behind it and they don't want certain books or
34:27
Speaker 5: they don't want kids to learn this and learn that.
34:30
Speaker 5: It seems like America didn't really learn its lessons from
34:33
Speaker 5: the last forty years.
34:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of the most disappointing things about conspiracy
34:39
Speaker 2: theorists because so much of that early nineties New World
34:44
Speaker 2: Order shit was like, listen, fuck this tyrannical government. They're
34:49
Speaker 2: coming to take your guns, they want to kill us.
34:52
Speaker 2: You can't trust them. And it turns out all along
34:55
Speaker 2: those motherfuckers were just looking for the right boot to
34:58
Speaker 2: lick and they found and they're like, ah, never mind,
35:02
Speaker 2: that American government's good. And it's like, are you fucking
35:04
Speaker 2: out of your mind? What makes you think any version
35:09
Speaker 2: of that government has your best interest in mind? Just
35:11
Speaker 2: because it's Trump based on what fucking history? It's disappointing
35:15
Speaker 2: because there's no resistance left.
35:18
Speaker 4: And then when you have a perfectly legitimate claim to
35:21
Speaker 4: scandal such as we have here, you just thought of
35:24
Speaker 4: in the same breath as the earth is flat and
35:26
Speaker 4: Amanda binds as a clone people, you know, so the
35:30
Speaker 4: well is sort of poisoned or I don't know, they
35:32
Speaker 4: go to college. But one of those rhetorical fallacies.
35:37
Speaker 5: Right, And also it's such a born conspiracy that the
35:40
Speaker 5: crazier conspiracies are the ones least likely to be true.
35:43
Speaker 5: This isn't that crazy of a conspiracy that they just
35:46
Speaker 5: wanted a different president to be in office before freeing them. Yeah,
35:50
Speaker 5: it's like yo, JFK one that's the most believable one
35:52
Speaker 5: to me because it's the least sexy. When I heard
35:54
Speaker 5: that one, I was like, that actually sounds like what
35:57
Speaker 5: happened your conspiracy.
35:58
Speaker 4: That secret service guy?
36:00
Speaker 5: Yeah, he actually tripped and shot him by mistake. It's
36:03
Speaker 5: so boring that even conspiracy theorist don't want to believe
36:05
Speaker 5: it because they always got some hollywooshit and fifty people
36:09
Speaker 5: keeping a secret and replacement bodies and stuff.
36:12
Speaker 2: And it's the best one because everyone wins. The people
36:15
Speaker 2: who think the government covered it up win, the people
36:18
Speaker 2: who think Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin win.
36:21
Speaker 2: Everyone's right according to that theory. And I hate that
36:25
Speaker 2: it didn't catch on more. And yeah, there's a lot
36:28
Speaker 2: of things. The sensational story is usually not the one
36:32
Speaker 2: you want to chase in any situation when you're talking
36:36
Speaker 2: conspiracy theories, like with nine to eleven, the popular one
36:40
Speaker 2: is Bush did nine to eleven, and it's like, are
36:42
Speaker 2: you sure it's not Saudi Arabia. There's your conspiracy theory.
36:46
Speaker 2: There's the one you want to chase. But if you're
36:49
Speaker 2: a government that needs to control the narrative on things
36:53
Speaker 2: like that, you're going to be more than happy to
36:55
Speaker 2: let people chase the wild bullshit one that no one
36:58
Speaker 2: can prove. I think another good example is QAnon that
37:03
Speaker 2: is such a fantastical conspiracy theory that eventually boils down
37:09
Speaker 2: to Democrats harvesting adrenochrome and drinking kid's blood. And it's
37:16
Speaker 2: so wild that people hear it and they're immediately like,
37:19
Speaker 2: all right, yeah, well that's bullshit. But meanwhile, sex trafficking
37:24
Speaker 2: and military intelligence. I don't think that is a crazy
37:29
Speaker 2: question to ask, especially in light of Jeffrey Epstein, who
37:35
Speaker 2: was he working on behalf of because he wasn't doing
37:39
Speaker 2: that for himself.
37:40
Speaker 4: Doesn't seem like something that you could do freelance, even
37:43
Speaker 4: if you were extravagantly wealthy.
37:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, someone would have just murdered Jeffrey ef You.
37:48
Speaker 4: Would have need to be sponsored by a larger entity. Yeah.
37:51
Speaker 2: There's a guy named Michael Akino who we really need
37:55
Speaker 2: to do an episode about, because we did an episode
37:59
Speaker 2: of pre Scary about this disappearance that happened in Iowa
38:03
Speaker 2: in the eighties.
38:04
Speaker 3: A kid named Johnny Gosh. He was a.
38:07
Speaker 2: Newspaper delivery boy and he just got abducted off the
38:11
Speaker 2: street and his mom one is convinced he's still alive
38:16
Speaker 2: and claims he came to her house one night and
38:19
Speaker 2: explained to her what happened and was like, it's too
38:22
Speaker 2: dangerous for me to stay here. I can't stay here
38:25
Speaker 2: with you, You'll be in danger. She said he had
38:27
Speaker 2: a handler with him, and what he claimed was that
38:32
Speaker 2: he had been kidnapped and basically sold into this sex
38:37
Speaker 2: trafficking ring that was used to blackmail powerful business people,
38:43
Speaker 2: and other people came forward and corroborated this kid's story.
38:48
Speaker 4: Is this the book who Took Johnny?
38:49
Speaker 3: I think it probably is, I'm sure, okay. And they
38:53
Speaker 3: named this guy. I think they called him the Colonel,
38:57
Speaker 3: And it.
38:58
Speaker 2: Really seems like they're talking about Michael Aquino and Michael
39:02
Speaker 2: Achino for wan, he's the founder of the Church of Satan,
39:06
Speaker 2: but he's also military intelligence. He was implicated in a
39:10
Speaker 2: scandal that involved an attempted kidnapping of a baby from
39:14
Speaker 2: a military daycare center, and he eventually was found to
39:19
Speaker 2: be involved in a bunch of weird pedophile shit.
39:22
Speaker 4: God, it's hard to find a better resume than that, right, Ye,
39:27
Speaker 4: that's some shit.
39:28
Speaker 5: Really.
39:29
Speaker 4: Church of Satan's better file every whatever you want, it's there.
39:33
Speaker 4: I think I know this guy who you're talking about.
39:34
Speaker 4: This is a prizing amount of a cult shit that
39:37
Speaker 4: went down to the government, especially after Operation Paperclip, because
39:40
Speaker 4: the Nazis were all in the magic and whatnot.
39:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, Michael Achino's a really infamous figure who probably deserves
39:48
Speaker 2: an episode because.
39:49
Speaker 4: I've read all about this guy.
39:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are the questions you should be asking when
39:53
Speaker 2: it comes to the government and child sex trafficking. It
39:57
Speaker 2: shouldn't be our Democrats drinking blood. It should be is
40:01
Speaker 2: military intelligence using sex trafficking for blackmail means and to
40:07
Speaker 2: get leverage on people? And if so, the obvious next
40:11
Speaker 2: question is, so we're doing government sanctioned sex trafficking then,
40:16
Speaker 2: And that's also a pretty big scandal. It doesn't have
40:19
Speaker 2: to be adrenochrome in drinking blood.
40:21
Speaker 3: That's good enough.
40:22
Speaker 2: I feel like that will get some elected officials ousted.
40:25
Speaker 4: Also, Yeah, a secret satanic pedophile sex cult is juicy enough.
40:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, why does there have to be
40:34
Speaker 3: pizza involved? Leave pizza out of this?
40:37
Speaker 4: Yeah?
40:37
Speaker 3: Damn.
40:38
Speaker 5: Also, gay frogs and stuff people like Alex Jones that
40:41
Speaker 5: actually dropping real facts don't live that long. Government has
40:45
Speaker 5: proved they're willing to kill people. That's what happened to
40:47
Speaker 5: the Black Panthers and the whole civil rights movement of
40:51
Speaker 5: the sixties, and the people that were actually on to
40:53
Speaker 5: something dead or got strung out or something.
40:56
Speaker 3: Yeah.
40:57
Speaker 4: Yeah, King Kennedy, Kennedy acts that guy Michael Akino. The
41:01
Speaker 4: thing I read about him is he did a whole
41:03
Speaker 4: Satanic ritual in the basement of a Nazi castle as
41:06
Speaker 4: a matter of official US government business somehow.
41:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, And we did that episode a while back about
41:12
Speaker 3: the Finders.
41:13
Speaker 4: Finders are fucking creepy. Yeah.
41:15
Speaker 2: If you don't think it's weird, you are the government probably, Yeah,
41:19
Speaker 2: because if you really dig into it, there's all these
41:22
Speaker 2: agencies that referred the Finders to authorities as child sex
41:28
Speaker 2: traffickers and child pornographers. And it was blatant, it was obvious,
41:33
Speaker 2: and at every level they agreed until both times it
41:37
Speaker 2: got kicked up to the CIA, and the CIA was like, oh, nope,
41:41
Speaker 2: that case is closed. We're not talking about that anymore.
41:44
Speaker 3: So what about that? What about that? Instead of drinking
41:48
Speaker 3: blood in a dream of chrome?
41:50
Speaker 4: The loose ends are so good and there's so many
41:52
Speaker 4: of them.
41:53
Speaker 2: And I think that is a really effective strategy. The
41:57
Speaker 2: American government has employed is well, the best way to
42:01
Speaker 2: get ahead of shit like this is just put a
42:03
Speaker 2: crazier story out there and let that fucking community run
42:08
Speaker 2: with it.
42:08
Speaker 5: Yeah, you don't have to defendels.
42:11
Speaker 4: That's the phrase I was looking for. It's not poisoning
42:13
Speaker 4: the well, it's a turd in the punch bowl. Oh yeah,
42:15
Speaker 4: where they get some guy to act like a fucking
42:17
Speaker 4: kook so that we all look stupid.
42:20
Speaker 5: Is that a real turner?
42:21
Speaker 4: Yeah. I read the book John Ronson wrote called them
42:25
Speaker 4: Adventures with Extremists, So he's referring to Alex Jones back
42:28
Speaker 4: in the nineties at the time. They actually him and
42:31
Speaker 4: Alex Jones got to Bohemian Grove together and they get
42:33
Speaker 4: in and this book, it's pretty interesting John Ronson book.
42:36
Speaker 4: But yeah, they described him as a turd in the
42:38
Speaker 4: punch bowl, thinking that it was the government's idea to
42:41
Speaker 4: just let this guy go run his app and he'll
42:43
Speaker 4: make questioning the government look stupid. He does more harm
42:46
Speaker 4: working than not working.
42:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe it.
42:49
Speaker 2: And a lot of prominent conspiracy theorists when he first
42:54
Speaker 2: came on the scene at the time said it, including
42:58
Speaker 2: Bill Cooper, the guy that wrote Behold the Pale Horse.
43:01
Speaker 2: But there is some belief that Alex Jones is exactly
43:04
Speaker 2: that he was dropped into that scene by the government
43:08
Speaker 2: for the benefit of the government, because once a story
43:11
Speaker 2: goes through that fucking wacko, it's immediately discredited. And I've
43:17
Speaker 2: said it before. When the Internet really became a thing
43:20
Speaker 2: we all had access to, the government obviously had a
43:23
Speaker 2: choice to make because information was going to spread. So
43:27
Speaker 2: do you crack down on it like China does and
43:29
Speaker 2: expend all these resources in manpower and look bad on
43:33
Speaker 2: the world stage, or do you just let that information flow?
43:38
Speaker 2: But at the same time, you start spreading this idea
43:41
Speaker 2: that anytime you question the government, you're a conspiracy theorist.
43:45
Speaker 2: And that's kind of what's happened now where people hit
43:48
Speaker 2: a wall when it comes to questioning the official government
43:52
Speaker 2: version of events. People are just like, that's a conspiracy theory. Sorry,
43:56
Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about it.
43:57
Speaker 5: It's like the Kyrie Irvin A fig. If Kyrie a
44:00
Speaker 5: could have waited like six months, he could have not
44:02
Speaker 5: looked crazy and spoke out about what's going on in Israel,
44:05
Speaker 5: but instead he fucking tweeting books and movies from Instagram. Dude,
44:09
Speaker 5: you just would have waited six months through a year
44:12
Speaker 5: and then spoken about what's going on. But now people
44:15
Speaker 5: like Kyrie An, nobody's trying to hear that shit you
44:17
Speaker 5: were tweeting out crazy as documentaries that you didn't need
44:20
Speaker 5: to finish.
44:22
Speaker 4: I've heard people say, when both sides have a point,
44:24
Speaker 4: you're being played on. The lad noticed that Democrats are
44:28
Speaker 4: all end up respecting the institutions of our government if
44:31
Speaker 4: we don't give them meaning and power, who will. And
44:34
Speaker 4: Republicans are like, just fucking institutions are stupid anyway, Fuck
44:37
Speaker 4: the filibuster or whatever whatever. And it's like, yeah, I
44:41
Speaker 4: kind of see why people believe either of you, but
44:44
Speaker 4: it's just a bunch of shit to keep you from
44:46
Speaker 4: looking at what matters.
44:47
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's divide and conquer. It works really well.
44:51
Speaker 2: So I think that's our episode, right. I think we're
44:54
Speaker 2: all on board. The October surprise happened, probably right, I
44:58
Speaker 2: think so.
44:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, Elvis lived and have I believed something more.
45:03
Speaker 5: I don't know what the conspiracy would have to be
45:05
Speaker 5: about Reagan for me to not believe it. I was
45:07
Speaker 5: researching him for a video I just put out. I
45:10
Speaker 5: don't even know if we could ever have a worst president,
45:12
Speaker 5: he fucking destroyed unions in the middle class in this country.
45:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would have to be something like Reagan could dunk.
45:21
Speaker 2: You could show me the video and I'd be like,
45:22
Speaker 2: deep bake, get the fuck out of here. Reagan couldn't dunk.
45:26
Speaker 2: But yeah, beyond that, No, you tell me a conspiracy
45:29
Speaker 2: theory about Reagan, I'm in fuck that guy. Oh he
45:32
Speaker 2: was the worst, and this is another reason why he
45:34
Speaker 2: was the worst. So I think that's our episode.
45:37
Speaker 3: We did it.
45:38
Speaker 2: Connor, John, thank you both for doing the pod. I
45:41
Speaker 2: appreciate it. This feels like the opportune time to plug
45:45
Speaker 2: some shit. Adam Toddbrown dot subsack dot com. You should
45:48
Speaker 2: go there and read my writings. What else do we got, Connor,
45:51
Speaker 2: what do you got to plug?
45:51
Speaker 4: I watch my extend up comedy special Liven Tucson on
45:55
Speaker 4: YouTube dot com.
45:56
Speaker 5: John, just look up my YouTube channel. I dropped the
45:59
Speaker 5: video weeks ago. It's John Lewis j w W N
46:03
Speaker 5: l O U y S. I'm working on another one
46:06
Speaker 5: that's kind of a conspiracy. I'm thinking about this New
46:08
Speaker 5: York Times bestseller that I'm pretty sure his biggest book
46:12
Speaker 5: is a piece of bullshit.
46:14
Speaker 3: I like that nice and that's it. Let's get the
46:17
Speaker 3: funk out of here. Connor say goodbye, John, say goodbye.
46:21
Speaker 5: All right, guys, see you the next time with the
46:24
Speaker 5: deep State.
46:25
Speaker 3: Goodbye, everybody, We love you, people of
46:33
Speaker 1: Every kind of just has to be