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From 90 to 600+ Kids: One BIG Business Journey · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willis, and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: And helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of improvement experience, and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women, redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success as the children, their boundaries of balance, the challenges they face, and how to overcome them.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Find their own version of success.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Shy away from the real talk.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: No way! Money struggles, growth, lots, boundaries of balance.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: We cover it all.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Think of this as coffee with your mate, mixed with an inspiring TED Talk, sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cozy, and get ready to get inspired and chase your oldest dreams.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or just survive Mondays.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Work It Like a Mum podcast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Ready to find your perfect job?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Search their website at investinginwomen.co.uk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now back to the show.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to today's episode of the Work It Like a Mum podcast.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm joined by Avon Phillips.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: She is the owner of the Little Little Kickers franchise in East Surrey.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Avon has been running the business now for 16 years and has grown it into a thriving network of children's football classes, now welcoming more than 600 children every single week.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And she's also a mom to two now adult sons who've grown up alongside the business and have both worked with her at Little Kickers over the years.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: So today we're talking about what it really takes to build and sustain a successful franchise over the long term, balancing motherhood and business ownership, managing a larger team across multiple venues, adapting through challenging periods like COVID and the lessons Yvonne has learned about leadership, resilience, and growth along the way.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love speaking to a woman that has run a business alongside raising a family because I'm doing that as well.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not easy.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's a hats off to you, respect.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you know, I'm gonna be just I'm just gonna be asking you loads of questions really as well.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying I know what I'm doing, but I know what you've done it and survived.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: You've survived, and it's not easy, so hats off to you, a lot of respect.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So take us back to the beginning.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: What made you decide to take on a Little Kickers franchise?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the actual history of it, Elizabeth, is is that uh the founder of Little Kickers, Christine Kelly, um, was a very old friend of mine and my husband's.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And when her little boy Lucas was born, and I'm his godmother, um, and she's godmother to my children as well.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: I remember sitting with our babies, looking at each other with that stunned, glazed expression on our faces because we had no clue what we were doing.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, basically saying she couldn't think of anything to do with Lucas.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: She said he really wants to, he was a little bit older than my son, really wanted to play football, wanted to run around with the ball.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: He was only two, but you know, and so she thought, I'll do it myself.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I was looking at her thinking, I don't even know how you're leaving the house at this point.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: But and she worked phenomenally hard and she created a brand that has just surpassed all expectations.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And hats off to her because she we really does deserve every bit of kudos, and it wasn't easy.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I kind of watched her develop that and um see her struggles, see her successes, see her when she started to franchise.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And interestingly enough, I I actually introduced her to people who went on to buy a franchise from her.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: At that point, not even considering it for myself because I was trying my hand at being an entrepreneur and I'd opened a maternity wear shop of all my.
• 4:39
  unknown: Yes.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, lovely, nice.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'm a friend of mine.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we opened a maternity wear store in Islington, which is right the other side of London to where I am.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: That was great planning.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was called Push Maternity Ware, and it was very upmarket, very, very designer-led, because at the time there wasn't anything particularly fashionable or you know, smart or in the maternity wear market.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we really wanted to change that.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we had five fantastic years of doing that, and then all the big brands started to pick up on it.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you had people like Selfridges and Harrods and Harvey Nicks, all then offering return to wear.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: So at that point in time, it was like, ugh, this is this is too much.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, which was a shame because we had five amazing years of uh, you know, working with pregnant ladies, trying to make them feel good about themselves while struggling small family as well.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I thought I'd go back to my roots and just go back into marketing.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the friends who had I'd introduced Christine to would decide she was selling her little kickers after five years, that she needed to go back into more of a corporate world.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, I'd been doing a bit of freelance marketing for little kickers as a favour to Christine, and I was a bit like, I could do that, yeah, surely I could do that.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I bought it.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I bought it as a resale.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my children were seven and five thereabouts.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I thought I wanted to spend more time with them when I had the shop.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: It must have been difficult.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Were you commuting up to Whistlington?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was every day.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Running for trains, desperate to get to the childminder on time.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was the most stressful fun.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was fun, but oh, it was exhausting.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't and the shop was open weekends, so I wasn't seeing my kids.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: My husband was picking up the slack, he was brilliant, he you know, he's really good at getting involved.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I wanted to do something then that I wanted to be around the kids.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought I'd missed already, missed so much of the formative years.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I took little kickers on.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, I took it on with 90 kids, yeah.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, two coaches, three or four venues, absolutely no clue what I was doing.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: And my first ever communication with a customer resulted in a really horrible email back saying, if this is how you treat your customers, then you've got no hope of doing I'd basically be chasing for fees.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I remember sitting, having a little cry, thinking, what have I done?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I just emailed this customer back and said, you know what, you're absolutely right.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have no clue what I'm doing.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so sorry I've upset you.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, she emailed back and went, Oh, I've had a bad day, I'd had a glass of wine, I took out on you.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, she became a great customer and a great friend.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought I I'm just gonna not pretend to be somebody I'm not, I don't know what I'm doing.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm learning, and I'm just gonna try my best.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Were you a football fan before doing this?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Not massively, no.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um the kids were playing football, the elder had just started.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, they'd done little kickers at my friend's franchise, and they'd got into a little team.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, we'd be there on a Saturday morning and a Wednesday evening for training and stuff.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, I'm from the Northeast, so football is a big thing up there, so you you you you're aware of it.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I just like the concept of team sport for children.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was really important to me that the kids, you know, knew how to play and share and interact with kids.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and football seemed the obvious choice because they both seemed to want to do it.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, nice.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And was the franchise local then to where you lived?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: So literally on my doorstep.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: So from having commuted across London at a frenetic pace every day to have something that was in the East Surrey area, it was like, well, this is nice.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: I could set up my little office at home, take the kids to school, you know, pick them up, work in between, work evenings.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was better.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Much better.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know, I mean, I've done little kickers with my my um children, um, and a lot of it is, isn't it, preschoolers?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she was doing it in the in the day, and I guess it's you can make it term time only, and it does give you a lot of flexibility.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there was a lot of flexibility.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: The business model was created when when Christine created it, yeah, with a mum in mind who wanted to keep working to do something, not necessarily on a full-time basis at that point in time.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously that's evolved and changed.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but at the time that was what the business model was set up to do.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So initially, pretty much all of the franchisees were women who've come from a corporate background of some way, shape, or form, didn't want to go back into the world of working nine at a minimum of nine to five and juggling uh their kids and everything.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's what she was targeting, the people that she was targeting that was really well because what she also did was bring in lots of people with lots of skills into the network from the outset.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you had people from a law background, from a marketing background, you know, more of a commercial background.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, and in those early days, the early even now, to be to be very fair, you know, the collaboration between franchisees was fantastic.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Really good network.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Still talking to these these women now, some 16 years on, which is wonderful.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to rewind back.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you obviously set up your business, your first business, and you've been doing it for five years.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: You must have felt quite sad and closing it down.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Felt like a real failure.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, I'd done well in my corporate life prior to that.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was a publisher, and you know, I I loved what I was doing.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was marketing director and publisher for a business-to-business company, lots of travel, fairly successful, you could say.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, had children, really struggled not doing anything.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we opened the shop.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then for that, eventually, you know, despite all of our best efforts.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I know you'll have worked hard on.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it sounds like you work phenomenally hard.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and it was it was it was a real knock to the confidence at a time that I was probably quite vulnerable anyway.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think you question your identity when you've had children.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're a bit like, you know, you think, oh, this should be wonderful.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I should be sitting here, you just you're basking in the glow of my children.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: When in fact you're just like, God, you're irritating me today.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when are you going to have a conversation or stuff like that?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously the guilt associated with that.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: But that was really hard to bounce back from.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a little bit nervous about buying into another business, but that's kind of why the franchising route appealed to me because I thought, well, there's people here who've done what I'm about to do and have done it well.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they've got the worst.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and bit like, well, I'm not, you know, going in blind.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of know that there's some support there and that the model fits me and where I am at this point in time.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really where the franchising sort of route appealed to me.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I thought there's a there's a bit more support, really, you know, knowing that there's people to to to bounce ideas off or to say, yeah, don't worry about it.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: We tried it, try this instead.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Which really was helpful.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: I I know you said you felt like a failure, and I guess and lots of people are very frightened that they've tried something new because of that perceived, you know, that they failed, what all people think of me.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm sure that what you learned during those five years of running a shop has just, you know, put you in such a better position going to start a new business or do something new.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: All those foundational skills, they've not been wasted.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, definitely not.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the role that I predominantly had in the shop um was very much more of the sort of business side.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: So the the the financial side and and managing and budgets and payments and stuff like that.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and when you can see that the the outgoings are building and your incomings aren't coming in, it's a real juggling act and stuff like that.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So something I've been very keen on when I started Little Kickers was very much like, well, I'm not saying I did anything wrong in that in that business, but it was like I've always got to be on top of everything.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm such a control freak when it comes to profit and loss and margins and stuff like that, and making sure that everything's breaking even, that everyone gets paid, everyone's, you know, everything's done perfectly.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need any extra stress in my life.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I did learn a lot from it, to be honest.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was very customer-facing.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, that was in person.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking to pregnant women who were nervous and anxious, and it was nice to be able to share experience, and kind of a lot of that did roll through into little kickers with young children.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I when you know, when some child is having a major meltdown and you could see mums on the the the break of like yeah, just being able to go up and go, it's all right, don't worry about it.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone does it, take a breath, you guys sit down, you know.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nice to be able to try and support families.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not an expert, but I have been there.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do get it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Around a long time.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, if you're counting that shop, it's 21 years, isn't it?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Being around you know, in business in business, portion of people.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: What's the difference do you think between starting a business from absolute scratch and then starting a franchise?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know we've touched on a little bit, but you know, talk us through the differences.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, to be honest, you know, starting the shop was a really weird one because it's like, what on earth did I know about fashion and design?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because we quit we designed our own clothes and got them made and and stuff.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And um, my business partner, I'd worked in publishing with her, and we we literally had our children a day apart.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: We were very close, and and she was a big creative and loved to do stuff like that.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, Well, we just gotta, you know, how are we gonna pay for this?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: What we're gonna do, you know.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we did a lot of research, and I think that that would be my advice, regardless whether you go into business or and and we went through there was a government scheme at the time, it's something called the enterprise allowance.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was something like that, that you got funding, and our research was just immense.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: That the guy was like, I don't think I've ever seen anything so comprehensive.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as I said, it did do very well initially.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but with franchising, you still obviously have to have to do your research without a doubt, but there are some things that have been done for you already, you know.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So there are you know financial models, or if this is what you're paying for this and this and this and this, then actually this is what you'll end up with, that type of thing.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there was you know some marketing already available.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: This this is a brochure we've created, all you have to do is put your own, you know, posters and stuff.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: So you didn't have to necessarily be an expert in any of those fields, um, that you could come into it and think, okay, yeah, I'm I'm really good with kids, so maybe I could coach, but I'm not really good at being a business person.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's okay, because this is done for you and this is done for you.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, and you grow into it.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's still plenty of mistakes to be made.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I don't think the difference is massive between whether you go into franchising or business, you've just got to do your homework, yeah.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Really got to do your research and be a bit brave.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: We touched about this earlier, just got to be brave, you've got to take that jump, that take the leap.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously you started this having come from something that hadn't worked out.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: You could have thought, I'm never doing anything like that again.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go run back to corporate where it's safe.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but thank God you took the relief because you're still here 16 years later.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was because of the business model, this particular one.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely believed in Christine and her passion.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: I could see how it was growing.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, okay, I think this would and it fitted my family.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Two boys, football.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's a bit of a no-brainer.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's give it a go.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I you know what?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a motto I think I I picked up from Christine actually.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: She always used to say, Well, what's the worst that could happen?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, you know, well, that's actually really good advice.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing's it doesn't work.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh well.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Never mind.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you get more of a community as well, do you think, being part of a franchise network with other franchise um franchise laws or franchisees than you were when you're working in the shop as well?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there wasn't really anybody to talk to about, you know, the shop and what we're doing because we didn't know anybody in that field, and you know, that your competitors weren't going to give you any information.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the franchise, be because I did work at the head office for a little bit as a franchise support person, I was lucky enough to talk to a lot of franchises and really get to know them.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they're just a brilliant bunch, you know, so so open and willing to share advice and help and support.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when we came out of COVID actually, and I I was just then just working on my franchise, um, I set up a WhatsApp group.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a there's a hundred WhatsApp, a hundred um franchises on the WhatsApp group now, but it's so useful of like you know, somebody will type it and go, does anybody know how to do this?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like boom, boom, boom, yeah, try this, try that.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, oh yeah, I can share with this.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that is just the community because even though we're all over the country, yeah, um, and we've got people on it from Canada and South Africa and Australia, um, the willingness to support each other to be successful is why it works.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the people it attracts are are those people who just want, you know, they fundamentally we just want to have kids playing football and having a great time and learning a bit of stuff, you know.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: That the people who are doing that are, you know, really nice.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, it's a really nice community when we get together at conference.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, do you do in-person things?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: A little messy, I'm not going to lie.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's all right.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: You we've all got a little heads, yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's is we all very much look forward.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's usually an annual conference.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think next year it's going to be done near Oxfordshire, and it's so well attended.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, obviously, head office will put on different training events and things, you know, speakers and stuff.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really useful, but from a networking point of view, to meet up with people, to talk to them, to catch up, to go out, maybe to have a glass of wine or three, you know, it's such a lovely community, and I think it everyone's just genuinely pleased to see each other and just to chat and catch up and celebrate successes, you know.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, nice.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, what did the business look like then 16 years ago to now?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: How has it differed over the years?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was a lot smaller.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was very much reliant on one particular coach who who actually was with me for about 12 years and he he was great.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was very careful.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think I was a little bit super careful based on my experience of running a shop that didn't so I was I was probably really tentative about expansion.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: So everything was really carefully, oh I don't know.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it was very considered.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Very considered and a little bit fearful.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think I was my own worst enemy, to be honest.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was like overly cautious, you know.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think it was sort of just be after COVID, and I was like, most of the little kickers franchises are LLPs, which are limited liability partnerships, because we're deemed to be an education provider.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that means there are some um benefits that you don't pay VAT, but it's a big jump to become an LLP.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: You have to bring on partners and you have to restructure your business.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I deliberately sat below the VAT threshold for about three years without growing.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really frustrating because I didn't have any spaces and classes.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, wait lists, and I was just like, it's what I said to you before about being fearful, is actually I should have been braver.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I should have done it earlier.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, that would be my advice to anybody now is don't hold back.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: You can do it.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how did you like because obviously you had quite a few limiting beliefs, and you you were bringing back bringing across, I guess, some trauma from what had happened with the shop.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: How did you let go on that?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: What sort of inner work did you do to like let go of that though?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know it's quite easy to say, you know, I stopped doing it, but was there anything you did in particular that I was watching my other fellow franchises grow?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I was thinking, oh, they're doing really well, you know.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very, very happy for them.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, they'd move to being an LLP and they'd open new venues, and also the ones that are surrounding me.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, gosh, they're all doing very well.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I was thinking, and I still had this mentality that it's just a little job, just a little job.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, why is it a little job?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I I wear I'm wearing uh 50 different hats every single day from HR to coach to business administrator to financial, you know, it's like it's not a little job, and it doesn't need to be a little job.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually really doing myself a disservice, and I think it was when we came back from COVID, um, and we'll probably talk about that a bit later, but it was like go big or go home.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is ridiculous.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: So many parents were desperate.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: For classes to get their children, their very young children, socialized.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these children hadn't seen or been out of their little family bubble.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: They hadn't played with other children.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: They hadn't even been in the park.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: They hadn't, you know, and the demand was ridiculous.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, well, if I don't do it now, I'll never do it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: What's the point?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is ridiculous.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: So deep breath, went for it.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Never look back.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's been brilliant.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: I again be brave.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's what I would do.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: So talk us through, you know, COVID.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: What was it like for you?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: You sound like you've been working, you know, you've a hard worker to go from doing, you know, nothing, nothing like we all were for several months to then.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was absolutely lovely.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna lie.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm one of the few people who absolutely loved being in lockdown.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was lucky enough and my staff, you know, we were supported with the government with the furlough scheme.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I had some income coming in, my coaches had some income coming in because that was my concern is that what's gonna happen to these, you know.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of them were just young kids.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it wasn't really, you know, I knew they were gonna be supported by their families, but a few were older coaches and that the money was important.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, if I didn't have any income, how am I going to support them?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact that, you know, they'd been recruited properly, they were on a contract, that they could claim furlough was wonderful.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for that government on that one.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the customers were amazing, actually.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, the way they they the way they came back, the way they supported us.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: I spent a lot of time communicating with them during the lockdown period.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: We'd send little videos from coaches with little little um tasks for the children to do.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to try and do this, do this.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we'd send out puzzles and stuff for emails for the children to do, little competitions so that we could send them something in the post.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so we really tried hard to keep that community going.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when we were told that there were some restrictions going to be lifted and everything had to be outside, I mean, thank God it was a wonderful summer, if you recall, it was beautiful weather.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I was really racking my brains of how we can do this and bring bring these children back safely and protect my coaches, my workforce as well, because we were still very, very worried about stuff like that.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd worked with a coach and we developed what we call these little zones of play that would be set up outside, and children would move to different zones in between that.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Every bit of equipment's been sprayed and cleaned.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it sounds ridiculous now, but it's what you have to do.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I rolled, I sort of mentioned this to a couple of my fellow franchises, and they were like, Oh, we want to do that as well.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we I got them all together in a big field in Borden somewhere with all its equipment, and we practiced rolling out sessions in this manner, following all the different protocols and safety things.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then we felt comfortably enough to invite customers and say, if you don't want to come back, it's absolutely fine.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think anybody didn't come back.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, Yes, please, what time, when, when, when, you know.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we did do it well, and we did it really, really carefully.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the customers were so appreciative of that that you know, it wasn't just a case, oh, we have to bring little kickers back because I want to make money, it was actually I want to get these children playing.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: They need to, they need to socialize, they need to be with their peers.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really hard.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these poor little children, you know, they had they were so wary of things.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's really heartbreaking looking back at it.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really nice to be able to get them back into very our play not push ethos, if you like.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's just about players and you do it in your time, in the way you want to.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: No one's forcing you into do anything, you know.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: When you're ready, come and try and kick a ball.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry if you're not, that type of thing.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the feedback, uh I've got I've got loads of emails from that time from parents who just, you know, how appreciative they were of the consideration.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was really, it was really from a such a horrible situation, it was a really positive outcome that we we were one of the first ones to come back as well.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think it really did a lot for how people saw us.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just as a business, we were much more of a community as a family brand, which is what I'm all about, to be honest.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: How did your leadership's developed over the years?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you first started, you know, how many coaches did you have?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: And how, you know, how's that evolved?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think you'd have to ask the team.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, um, I had two when I started.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've got about 35 now.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you must have you must have changed.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I have changed in my lead leadership style.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been a person who is who's really sort of directive.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very much uh let's let's pool our ideas, let's work together as a team.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: What's the best way of doing things?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: I like to collaborate with people.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you could tell that with the the other franchisees, but with my team as well, you know, the relatively young team.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Actually saying that I've got one fabulous coach who's 73, brilliant.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've got my youngest coach who's probably 16.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got a big, big range.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter to me what age you are, it's the person you are, you know.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I hire people because I like them.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so important, they've got to be likable.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care about their CV.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care about their experience, really.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: We recruit by shoving them into a class, and I I just want to see how they're going to be with the children.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: I can teach them how to deliver the program.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I can't teach them how to befriend a two-year-old and and let the two-year-old trust them enough to you know to help them and support them.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: So all of my coaches are really lovely bunch.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and about four years ago, I took the big decision to take on a coaching and operations manager, which was a full-time role.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yeah.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: And he was a coach originally, fabulous coach, always liked him.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: He was one of my coaches who thought he didn't want to go to uni after he'd done his A levels.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: He went into he was working in IT, but he loved the coaching side.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: He was still part-time coaching for me.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: He came and sat with me and said, Are there any opportunities?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: I said, This is karma.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking at taking on somebody to help me run the business because it's getting too big.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're about 450 kids then, maybe less.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: And he came on board and wow, what a difference that made.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it'd be nice if you could come on and maybe I could you know take a little bit of a back seat.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Go on holiday.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Not a chance.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen so but someone so focused.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's more committed to this business than I am.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: I swear to God.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's open more venues, let's do some training, let's do this, let's do that.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: The business just went.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: You need someone like that.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: He sounds fabulous.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: He is fabulous.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: He is fabulous.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: My my end goal is when I exit Little Kickers, is that he takes it on, which is what we're working towards.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: But he's just amazing.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: So is that the plan then that you would one day exit what you'd sell, would you?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I'm going to get to be the oldest coach in town soon.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I don't think I have the energy.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I think you know, my husband and I, as we approach, you know, our children are grown up.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: If they ever leave home and get their own place, you know, the view is at some point we'd like to retire, but it's not imminent, but I I think because I care about the business, it's where does it go?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if it was to him, I'd be thrilled because I know it'd be in really safe hands.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: How have you kept yourself motivated and excited about the business during the past 16 years?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's been ups and downs, without a doubt.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um frustrations, like anything.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: We've been through a number of different managerial company buyouts over the years, so getting to new getting to know the new owner and what they're about and stuff like that.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's always tricky.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um depending on what's going on in your personal life as well.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when the kids were doing their A levels and GCSEs, I really wanted to focus on them more than it, but you know, it was still got to work on the business.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but by bringing my ops manager Charlie on, yeah, that changed everything.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's having somebody who understands the business in and out as much as you do, who is enthusiastic, who sits with me.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, he is the same age as my eldest son.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we were literally just talking before this meeting about how well we get on.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think of him like that.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: He we are on the same page, we laugh, we j, you know, but we, you know, if one's having a bad day, the other one will jeer the other one up.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that having somebody in the network who fully gets it, and I trust totally with the business that when I do go on holiday now, I don't have to take my laptop, which is an absolute wonder that I know it's all going to be in really safe hands.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: He looks after the business and he looks after the dog, so that's how much I trust him.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of trusting that has to be there.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, love that.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so just working with somebody who and you know, other franchises again on the group.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you can have a bad day, you go, I just don't know what I'm doing wrong, I can't cope with this.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then, oh yeah, no, we had that.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Have you tried this?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's fine, you know.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's allowed a off day.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not going to talk about what label is because I know when you run your own business, it's hard and it all sort of seeps in.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you're anything like me, it just especially when you've got your phone and you're sort of carrying around your office, I guess, on your phone.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: But how have you dealt with like that guilt, I guess, over the years that maybe you have been focusing too much on the business or focusing too, you know, too much.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that we put on ourselves, it's not, you know, something we carry.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy, isn't it?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: We really do.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's a madness.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when they were old enough, I just got the kids to be coaches so I could spend more time.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: I do like that, yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I brought them into the business and they were fantastic, brilliant coaches.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: My youngest has literally just finished his master's now and he's looking for a full-time job.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: But currently, you know, he's working for me and I get such positive feedback about him.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: He's such a good coach.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the eldest coached up until last year.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, he's approaching 25 now, he's got a full-time job in the city.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: But they were involved in the business, so it was really good to chat and talk to them about it, you know, from going to classes when I was coaching and they would be in the in the kitchen on the sidelines doing their homework because they had to come with me, poor kids, to then getting involved and getting paid for it.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I remember both of them saved up all of their wages and they both bought their first cars with it.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I always thought that now that's it was a work ethic, trying to teach them that, you know, that you worked hard and look what you've got.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: You've now got your own car, well done, you know, and they really did take that on board.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's really nice to have them in involved in that.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: My husband didn't really get involved, he had a full-time job, but occasionally I would get him to dress up as Lenny the Lion, a giant lion costume, and make him go down to local parks.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like really.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, it's your turn now.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, Lenny.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yes, I think having the kids with me helped.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Getting them involved, yeah.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know what?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: It really did teach them a work ethic, and it's really interesting.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: My younger son had an interview for a job the other day, and he sort of asked for some feedback on it.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the interesting things they said was, We wish you talked about little kickers a bit more.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because he's done his degree in epidemiology, so you know, very different.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he was like, Well, I didn't think that would be relevant.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: They went, but you, you know, your communication skills, your problem solving skills, your your management skills, because you led teams, which you'd put all of that on the CV, but he didn't feel that that's don't underplay it.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it was suddenly he was a bit like, Oh, you've got a point, haven't they?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I went, Yeah, you do a lot as a coach for little kickers.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so don't underestimate it, you know.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was really nice to see that full circle.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a little light bulb going off in his head that okay, maybe it was useful after all.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Not like we're saying, you know, earlier in in the interview, nothing's ever wasted, even if it feels like you failed at the time, you either see and you know, I always think you either learn or you win, and both are about equally valuable.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, definitely you take that experience with you.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, whatever happens, whatever role he goes into, it's like, well, you have done all of these things, so just celebrate it.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone's interested in a buying a franchise themselves or exploring little kickers further, how can they find out a little bit more?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think the first port of call is you can go onto the Little Kickers website and you can see um there is a page on there which is about how to what you can see what's available, yeah if it's a resale or what's it what's a brand new territory.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then literally, I was only chatting to a prospective buyer yesterday.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the franchisees is looking to sell theirs and asked, would I talk to their potential buyer?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was very happy to.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm always a hundred percent honest.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've been there, know what it's like.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we had a lovely, a lovely chat with this guy for about an hour yesterday, and he he asked some really good questions.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was really impressed by his questions.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was thinking, yeah, you know, you you do well.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: He was such a personable guy, and I get quite enthusiastic and stuff, but we, you know, so it's yeah, you would contact Head Office, they would probably put you in touch with franchisees who want to talk, who are happy to talk about their experience.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's not just glorifying it because there are downsides to it, especially in the early days when you're you know you're working on your own.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've got to be self-motivated, you've got to be at the right frame of mind, and you've got to know what you want to do.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: But um, it's a great business, it's it's a nice business to be in.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're working with families and small children, and it's it's lovely.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, nice.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it sounds like you made the best decision that you could have made 16 years ago.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, thank you so much, Yvonne, for joining me today, and thank you so much to everybody that has listened.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: I've enjoyed it.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work It Like a Mum podcast.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: And don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willet and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can also follow my recruitment site, Investing in Women, on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, keep on chasing your big stream.