Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 549: Musky Scandals and Governor's Tags Get a Kick to the Nuts

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Ep. 549: Musky Scandals and Governor's Tags Get a Kick to the Nuts · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Listeningcast, you can't predict anything.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: for el First Light has performance apparel to support every
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: dot com. F I R S T L I T
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: E dot com. I'm sitting in Phil's bed.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: How's it feel?
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I'm right where I'm right where Missus Taylor sits.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Huh, that's interesting. That's the first place your mind went.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Well, Phil, I asked Phil, what side of the Betty
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: sleeps on? Sue's on the same side of the bed
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I sleep on. That's right, So I'm over in Missus
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Taylor's position in Phil's bed.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: You know what I read once is that, uh, you
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: like there's like protector instinct which is often like associated
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: with males that they sleep closest to the door to
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: suss out any threats coming in.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Not me neither.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Well, it depends what door, which door threats coming in?
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess I'm closer to Yeah, you're right, because
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I'm closer to the to the outdoor that goes out
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: to our outside. So yeah, I'm there to absorb any threat. Yeah,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: and I and I got the Missus closer to the
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: escape and to the inside of the house. So you're right,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: that's really good.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: You think that's like what happened when you get.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Never consciously thought about that. No, but if we were,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: if I was with my wife in this hotel, you'd
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: sleep on that side. I'd have missus well, you know
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: what what should be Missus Vanella. I'd have Missus Vanilla
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: right over here where Miss Taylor's spot is, and that
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: would be over there by the door, ready to duet.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Some drunk like chili comes in or something. Yeah, his ass. Yeah,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: we're out on Live too right now. And Spencer took
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: advantage of the of the morning and he went out
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: rock counting. Spencer, can you share with people about your
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: special rock?
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a piece of wonderstone. It's only found in
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: a few states and then a handful of other places
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: in the world. It's just very colorful, lots of stripes on.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: It, beautiful purples and pinks.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this came from a place that has rocks of
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: all colors, greens, yellows, oranges, reds.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: What caused the coloration? Do we know?
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Almost? Like any cool rock that you find, you can
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: assign it to, like volcanic activity and water. The specifics
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: of it, I can't tell you, but like all the
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: cool rocks, volcanoes and water.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: So much money worth of cool rocks you think you have? Now?
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I don't have anything that's like crazy valuable. Maybe if
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: you were like interested in landscaping something, you could come
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: into my garage and you'd pay me by the pound.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: But what's this worth?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Nothing? Nothing, It's it's not worth enough for me, maybe
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: like a dollar, right, but to me that's worth ten dollars.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Sure, it's worth about six to me, okay.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: And I don't have any rocks from Nevada, so then
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: it's yeah, you know, it's like a twenty dollars rock.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, I got you. I found myself a minute
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: ago in the awkward position of needing to explain to
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Spencer that there's only three kinds of rocks which you
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: think of rock Hound would have know this? Yeah? Did
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: you think it was? I did?
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: You did? You? Did you feel awkward? While I was?
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: It was awkward?
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: I was trying to give him the second one without
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: saying the whole word I was going to.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Here is I was talking about how he's like such
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: a expert rock hounder and like real geologists and everything,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: and then winds up you know, yeah.
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: You know my favorite, my favorite subject, Like if you're
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: riding down the road with me in Arkansas, I talk
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: about the orogeny of the Ozark and Washington Mountains. I've
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: done it on this podcast. I think the first time
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: was on Meeting your podcast.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: I talked about it.
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: The word orogeny means mountain building.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like it means something totally different.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it kind of throws people off, but it's like
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: the genesis of mountains.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Like I wouldn't use that word and feels bad. It's risky.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Clay can you can you can? You? You've been mentioned
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: lately you're hot on getting a new pet.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, man, I've I've always loved timber, rattlesnakes. My dad
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: planted that love in me from a kid. If we
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: found a rattlesnake while out in the woods, it was
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: a big day and we didn't kill them.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: We just liked them.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: And recently on the bear grease podcast. We did a
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: we did a series, or we did apie podcast called
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: the Cobra Scare. So we were talking a lot about
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: cobras and venomous snakes. And on the last week, I
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: haven't listened to that yet, but I've been I was.
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: I'm aware of but I haven't listened. Yeah, why is it
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: about cobra? You know what I mean, Cobra's from another content? Well,
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: is it because people refer to timber ratlers as cobra?
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: It hasn't.
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: It has nothing to do with timber ratlers. I'll give
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: you the elevator Cobra's Scare podcast is about. It was
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: the Great Cobra Scare of nineteen fifty three in the
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: town of Springfield, Missouri, oh basically, mysteriously around on August fifteenth,
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: nineteen fifty three, an Indian monocled cobra was killed in
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: downtown Springfield and basically, over the course of six weeks
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: they killed twelve Indian cobras.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: And it became this big I keep seeing you have
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: all these pictures of people's snakes, and I wasn't putting
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: it together.
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  Speaker 4: Well, it just yeah, where did the come from? Well,
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, should should I tell I think to the podcast.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: It was a It was.
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  Speaker 4: A mystery for thirty five years until nineteen eighty eight.
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  Speaker 4: Li lies, venom and deception.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: That's good fodder for Baker.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: Did anybody get bit? Nobody got bit? But there's still there.
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: There's one surviving cobra that's pickled in a jar at
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: Drury University, which happened to also be where Bob Barker,
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: the Price is Riot, went to college. And I went
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: to Drew University and saw the cobra and the jar.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: It's been there for seventy years. Made national news, it
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: was in Life magazine. It was called the Great Cobra
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: Scare of nineteen fifty three.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Bob Barker was a big animal rights actor.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah I know, yeah, and and he was.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: He was the one that was always promoting the sexual
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: mutilation of pets.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: And that's how I would have ended trivia if he
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: hadn't already taken that one. Otherwise I'd say, Spae and
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Newdy your pets and said him say, the only game
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: show where conservation always wins.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: So I took be a mean to catch that. I
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: got you.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: So so we just got We just got talking about
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: cobra's or talking about venom of snakes and how is
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: it a two parter? It's one partner man, just knock
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: it out of the park and one. But what's cool
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: is I interviewed my neighbor who happens to have been
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: bit by a Egyptian banded cobra, and I interviewed him
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: about being what it's like to be bit by cobra,
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: which is pretty interesting, And yeah, it's a very fun episode.
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  Speaker 2: How do you get bit?
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  Speaker 4: It was his it was his pet and he he
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: was reaching in cleaning the cage. He's been bit over
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  Speaker 4: twenty Venomas snakes and he's eighty two years old, Like.
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  Speaker 1: Oh man, at this point, he's got to be just
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: kind of asking for it.
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  Speaker 4: Well, this was all in his his career was basically
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  Speaker 4: a side show at carnivals and he was bit bo
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  Speaker 4: over twenty Venomas snakes. He only took an a venom
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  Speaker 4: two times, got it.
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  Speaker 1: So he's he's he never tried to get bit, but
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: just that much exposure. Yeah, he just got bit. Years ago,
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  Speaker 1: we had on the show the entomologist Justin Schmidt, and
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: he had subjected himself to being bit by all the
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: insects bugs and you know everything. And he had developed
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: this Schmidt Pain Index MM to scale the severity of insects, stings, bites,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: and stains, you know, and he had put the bullet
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: ant at the highest. This individual you're talking about would
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: be well suited to develop a sort of yeah scale
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: he when you're around, to rank the experiences when you're
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: around mister Fred, like he he kind of feels like
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: he's an amateur. And he refers to these guys that
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: have been bitten like hundreds of times, like they're his heroes.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Like he's like, do you know Bill Hass the Florida
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: sar Entropia. There's a word for a place where there's serpents.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: And I was like, no, I never heard of serpentarium. Serpentarium.
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  Speaker 4: He's like, man, he's been bit one hundred and fifty
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  Speaker 4: times by Cobra's even got bit by a king kobra.
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  Speaker 4: Like he just kind of nerves out about people that
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: have gotten bit a bunch, but he he has these
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: wild stories. Man, he would get bit. And he he's
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: kind of like an anti authoritarian guy, like he really
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: doesn't want to submit to any kind of any any
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: kind of like man made authority that this kind of
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: way it feels.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: And so he would go.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: To a hospital and sit in the waiting room after
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: he got bit, but not check himself in just in
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: case he did start to close.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so he only.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: Got bit, only got bit twice, all right, I mean
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  Speaker 4: he only took anavenum twice. But the story is not
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: about mister Fred. He was just my cobra expert. And
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: then the whole story was about the cobra scare. I
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: interviewed a guy that was a kid when it happened,
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: and I interviewed a guy that was that has a
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: brewery in Springfield right now where they have a beer
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: called Cobra Scare. So that so Springfield's kind of latching
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: onto this identity cobra scare. So that in turn got
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: me just talking about venomus snakes. And had a guy
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: from brad Birchfield, a guy I know from Arkansas that's
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: a big He calls himself a herpa culturalist. He's not
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: a herpetologist. He breeds snakes, doesn't breed him. He just
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: has them just he's a snake expert. But he's not
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: an academic and he doesn't do it for a living. Yeah,
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: and he brought a big timber rattler, a big diamondback,
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: and a big bucket.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I had him in five gallon buckets. Man, there's
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: got no worse smell. It's a sealed up five gallon bucket.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: When you open it up.
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: And there he is, it's they have they have a
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: but I mean he does keep them in those buckets.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: Those are just the his totes. He interesting story. You
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: like this, the diamondback that he has, he he it's
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: it's legal to take him out of the wild. He
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: took this one out of the wild fifteen years ago
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: and it was already an adult, big snake.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: He fed it like lab rats, or tried to.
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: Feed it lab rats for like six months after he
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: caught it, and it wouldn't eat like wild game. He finally,
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: kind of in desperation, threw a dead gray squirrel in
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: there spam.
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  Speaker 1: It only eats gray squirrels.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: So I want to get a timber ratley all that
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: to say, I think it would be a very very
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: nice addition to the office of a big, beautiful terrarium
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: with a big, giant timber rattler.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Just bored out of his mind.
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: Well, now that that's an interesting thing to say. They're
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: sitting wait predators. Man, A rattlesnake would love to do
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: nothing more than just to sit there his whole life
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: and have squirrels running raped by him all day long.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Clay said, the last time that snake ate was in October.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, huh.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: They very good, good pets, like feed him just I
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: mean he tries. He offers him food all the time,
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: but most of the time they don't even eat it.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Have you informed your wife of this plan?
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: We can't tell her. Yeah, okay, we got to keep
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: this on the d L.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: She don't want to know about it. Yeah, I could
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: see that. One of the best books about the Vietnam War,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: it's called Dispatches. Have you ever seen Stanley Kubrick's uh,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Full Metal Jacket? Full Metal Jacket?
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: No.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: Steve is always very disappointed in me anytime he says,
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: never seen Full Metal Jacket.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I never have. I never have.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I haven't either.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I've seen like five movies in my life. I don't
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: really understand. We had the same because that's what made
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: that guy's whole yeah career. Yeah, anyways, if you were
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: to watch Full Metal Jacket, most of the dialogue and
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Full Metal Jacket, like how do you shoot the women
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: and children? You just don't lead him as much. All
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: the dialogue from Full Metal Jacket is from Dispatches, and
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Dispatches was written by a guy named Michael hare H
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: E r R. He was like a college kid from
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Berkeley and during the Vietnam War, Rolling I think it
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: was Rolling Stone or Esquire, I can't remember which. Spence
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Pob'll find out in Hurry sent him to cover the
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Vietnam War. And most people that would go cover the
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Vietnam War would go and they'd want to talk to
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: General Westmoreland and they'd talk about the strategy, and they'd
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: talk about this many kia and you know this many
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: pounds of munitions and right. But Michael Harritis went and
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: hung out with the grunts and it kind of killed him.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Like his book that he wrote about is called Dispatches.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: I mean it's like it's a masterpiece of war reporting.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: But he never really he didn't really do anything after that.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: In the book Dispatches, he even talks about coming home
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: and having a hard time getting He has a very
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: hard time reintegrating into society. And he came from like
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: very left wing circles and when he came home, people
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: would want would expect him to talk about how how
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: bad it was, but he would he was hung up
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: on how beautiful it was, like it kind of ruined
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: him anyways. In this book, he describes an odor as
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: smelling like snakes left too long. I'm in a jar
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: and that's always stuck with me. Hm hmmm. So what
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: that's when your buddy pulled that snake out of that bucket.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: It made me think of dispatches. Mhm.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Esquire. This conversation with Steve has now become so frequent
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: about like have you seen this thing that he's now
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: had to specifically categorize when it's a recommendation versus just
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: like have you seen this thing?
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he was being very clear, Yes you know
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: this isn't a recommendation, but.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Uh, how will you find your timber ratler?
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: Well, so the legality of it is that there's I mean,
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: first of all, I I love rattlesnakes.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I don't care.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: I have not recreationally killed a snake in decades. If
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: I find one, I don't kill it. I don't have
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: you pegged as a snake.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Heade, Well, I just want to say that because it.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: I talked to my buddy Brad Birchfield, who loves snakes
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: more than anybody I've ever been around, and I said,
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: what would the temperature be of the planet for me
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: to take a timber rattler out of the wild and
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: let it be my snake? I said, would you feel
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: bad if I did that? And he was like no,
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: he said, he said, you know people, you know, there's
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: going to be some guys on sure that are going
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: to give you grief about it. But he said, timber
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: rattlers in our region are doing well. They're everywhere there,
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: So I would that's what would make it for me.
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: Like I don't want to order one out of a
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: magazine you want to, I want to. I want to
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: take it out of the wild. I do, and and
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: I have a pretty good I have a philosophy that's
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: based upon a book I read called evidence based Horsemanship
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: about how we anthropomorphize all almost all animals, and like
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: you would think that that a life of confinement for
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: a snake would somehow be negative for the snake or
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: affect tis psychology, and.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: It's just that's just hogwash, Like that snake will have the.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: Best life in the world. But minus you're talking right now.
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: You're talking right now, minus breeding. What you're saying right
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: now is as much nonsense as what I'm saying. This
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: is unknowable.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Well, there are people trying to find a way to
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: measure animal happiness.
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: Dude, you red space horsemanship? Is this.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: You horse? And then act like dismayed that I haven't Yeah, yeah,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: well no, I would never come to you dismayed that
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: you haven't read a specialty text when I'm talking about
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: stuff that's part of the American cannon. Yeah, Like I'm
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: not mad. I'm not mad that you didn't read Dispatches.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: I'm bewildered that you haven't seen full metal Jacket. Yeah,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I'm bewildered. It's just like the American cannon. Like, you're
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: not going to understand America, right, I can't wait to
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: understand America. So well, it's a hard job, you know,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: understanding America and watching the Italian Westerns.
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: The whole premise of Evidence based Horsemanship is written by
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: a neurologist and a horse trainer. The neurologist was also
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: a big horse guy, and basically they have done extensive
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: testing and I won't be able to do the book
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: Just Justice. It's been fifteen years since I read it.
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: But basically, this idea that a horse likes you or
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: doesn't like you is just not true. They don't have
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: a space in their brain to like you or not
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: like you.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: You don't think you have mules that like you, None
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: of them ever.
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: They speak one language when they walk up to you,
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: that is who is in charge, dominance and submission. They
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: speak one language. And they've done all this neurological testing
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: and basically the biggest motor of the brain of an
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: equine animal is geared hords towards controlling this.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Huge body that they have.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: What makes a human a human, All the stuff that
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: makes a human a human happens in this huge frontal lobe,
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: like if you were just look at like animal brains,
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: humans have this unusually large frontal lobe, and that's where
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: all the stuff that makes us human happens, like empathy,
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: Like you know, they can hook brain sensors up, and
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: if I go buy chili a coffee, you know this
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: altruistic moment, like that front part lights up and love, altruism,
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: all you know, empathy, compassion, all these things horse just
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: doesn't have that they have a very small frontal lobe
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: for how big they are. And so the idea that
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: your horse likes you or doesn't like you is just
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: is just blatantly not possible. And so that snake he does,
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: he's just he'll be as happy as he can be
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: in the global headquarters.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I want to clarify a couple points. I'm not
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: worried about I'm not like it's gonna be up at
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: night worrying about how happy the snake is.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: But I'm just saying, yeah, maybe I'm maybe I'm like
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: up already a little defensive, defensive.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I'm worried about I'm not worried about population that you're
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: you're keeping a that you pulling a timber ratler out
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: of the reproductive pool of of northern Arkansas is going
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: to have population level impact on the timber ratler. Get
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: worried about that. I'm not worried about that. He's gonna
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: be bored. I don't really know, but there.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: Are ways talk about all the stuff he's gonna see
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: out that glass case.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah he might be. He might just be enthralled.
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: I will have to get a venomous snake permit from
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: the Arkansas game and fish.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: To go collect it. Yeah, do you have a good
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: place to go look for one? I mean yes, I do.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I know where to find him.
• 20:55
  Speaker 6: Is there like a specific one that you're looking for,
• 20:56
  Speaker 6: Like does it have to speak to you? Or like
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: what what do you your first one you see? You're like, yep,
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: that's mine.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: No, I would like to find a bigger one. Last year,
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: last October me and when I was riding my mule,
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: I found the biggest wild snake that I've ever seen.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: But I wasn't in the market for a rattlesnake at
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: the time. I wish I could catch that one. I
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: actually talked to Brad say could I go back to
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: that same ridge and find that snake again? About where
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: he was? And he didn't think I could. Probably, Oh,
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: like a specific snake.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Like your odds of success in capturing that one would
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: be less. Yeah. Now, what if someone called you and
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: said I got a big one. I got a big
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: one in my yard.
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: I think I think what make would make it valuable
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: to me is that I knew right where that snake
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: lived and I picked him up brought him home.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: I think that's what would make it valuable. Just like
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Brent Reeves trying to sell pool or something isn't of
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: any interest to you.
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: No, I don't think so. I want to know where
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: he lived. I mean, I want to get him from
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: a specific place.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: So you could know what he's meaning.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: It's it's in the same vein of Brent Reeves trying
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: to sell me a tree and walker coon dog all
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: the time that I had nothing to do with, like
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: a started dog.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: It's like not interested, Brent.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: We recently acquired a frog, and I have determined he's happy.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: I think he's happy. I think he likes you.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he enjoys his living arrangement.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: I gotta offered correction. I'm moving on from this. We're
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: moving news items.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Is this what a good correction or a bad direction?
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Steve? Just where I'm wrong. It's just where I can
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: routinely make mistakes. Gotcha, No, this is the one where
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: the guy that wrote in is correct. I stand corrected.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: And it's just a common mistake I made because I
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: know it's the pronunciation of Theodore Roosevelt. Well, now, how
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: often do you go Roosevelt?
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Never? You're the only one I know I know.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: And it's like it's like I recognize it's I don't
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: know why I say both. I just get lazy, and
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: this guy's having a little connection about it.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I thought the Roosevelt was like you being pretentious though.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was as cows thing.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Well, it's like this. I I I just said if
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: I could have done a test, that would have passed test.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: But I just know there's two ways, and one of
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: them is wrong. I sometimes screw up. One is wrong.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: But there's a letter. This guy, this, this guy that
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: wrote in sends a letter. It's from Theodore himself. I think,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: is it? Yeah, from Theodore himself right into a guy.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: As for my name, it is pronounced as if it
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: was spelled, and he spells our r O S A
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: V E L T Roosevelt. That is in three syllables,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the first syllable as if it was rose.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Are you gonna change.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to never make that mistake again. Oh oh,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt guy wrote in hearkening back to episode five
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: thirty eight, not a correction, but just a deeply annoyed
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: in five thirty eight? What what like? What about episode?
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Do we on the count is all off? Yeah?
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: Because we have these bonus episodes that have been coming out.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: We're at this. This is gonna be around five point
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: fifty oh around.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Not terribly long ago, we covered a Musky manifesto where
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: a kid wrote in a Musky manifesto telling us a
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: story about how he was robbed of his grandpa was
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: robbed of the world rescored muskie and talking about this,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: I disparaged the musky community. Guy wrote in Steve. This
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: is him talking Steve's knowledge of musky biology and most
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: concerning his take on quote, the musky community is so
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: underinformed that it's frightful. I thought it could be an
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: April fool's joke.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: You're scaring this person.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: That's a big deal, he says. He goes on. By
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: all accounts, I'm a fervent member of the muskie community
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: for twenty five years in counting, and I'm nothing like
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: what he described. Huh. There are definitely bad apples, like
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: with any group. But for goodness sake, please don't condemn
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: a whole group based on the vocal absurd minority. As
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: for the claimed and now disqualified IGF a record seventy
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: two pound musky, no I read that sentence. I put
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: the emphasis on the wrong salable it should have been.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Did he just say salabil? It is my dad's favorite Joel? Gotcha? Gotcha?
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I put the emphasis on the wrong salable.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: You don't get it?
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I do? I do? Is that good? I had to
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: just reat it. This gentleman has a sense. It's not
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: quite a sentence typical message. He says it. I don't
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: know how to end. I don't know how to you know,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: how you use vocal intonation. As for the claimed and
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: now disqualified IGF a record seventy two pound muskie, it's period.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to read the sentence. I go
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: into the sentence like I'm going to encounter a comma.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: But it's more like he's saying like, as for the
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: claimed in disqualified, I g f a record setting two
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: pound muskie. Comma. Well, no, it's period, right. I don't
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: think I have left. I get to the end. I
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: get to the end of the sentence, and I'm and
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: I feel like the carp has been pulled out from
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the rug has been pulled out from under me. Do
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? Because I end on a
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: m hmm, kind of like a little cliffhanger, But there's
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: nothing there yeah, Jesus got a period. There's not another
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: sentence after that.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Well, and there's no sense sense and he's a double space,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: he double.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Spaces at why are you giving this guy at the time, Well,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: because he's got a valid point, but to set im
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: going to set the record that he double spaces, which
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: leads to an extra like as a reader, I'm not
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: only coming up against the period, right mm hmm, which
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: is a hard stop. This a little too accentuated by
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: a double space. Which no, no, no.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: That this guy's a slacker who was just used to
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: filling out his college papers by double spacing after periods.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: I thought that was like for folks who used typewriters,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: because double space made a period.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and we don't use typewriters anymore.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Space. As for the claim to now disqualified IGFA record
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: seventy two pound muskies. So here's what happened. A kid
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: wrote us in wrote into us his grandfather caught a
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: giant musky. Now he had all this documentation that he
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: presented to us, and this little manifesto is a thick
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: packet of printed out materials. But in the end they
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: released the muskie, and according to IGFA rules, a muskie
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: must be weighed on dry land, right, they could be wet.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: You gotta weigh on land. You can't weigh in the boat,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: does it. Let's say you're on a large ship. Mm hmm,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: what are they I mean, I'm though, like expert in
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: weights and measures, but what on a boat makes a Yeah?
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Makes a weight not work like you're on a buoyant.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Let's say you're on a buoyant. This is a question
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: for people who are good at physics.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: Would it not be the bounce? Like imagine if the
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: boat was bouncing and then the and the fish was
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: pulling hard and you just pulled the greatest way, but
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: it was you know, at the trough of a wave
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: where the fish kind of the momentum of.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: The fish pulled down.
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: That's probably what they're calculating for.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: A I know this something that floats. If it floats,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: that means it weighs less than the amount of water
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: it displaces. That's the definition of floating. Did you learn
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: that in full metal jacket? No, I'm just throwing that
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: in there to make it seem like what I'm gonna
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: say next is like well informed, that has nothing to
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: do what I'm gonna say next, But it's the interesting
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: idea like this is a question for any physicists out
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: there and thinking of the principles of a scale, Like
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: the fish is already in the boat before you put
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: it on the scale, so presumably like you've dropped. Just
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: when you take a fish on board, you're now displacing
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: more water, right, you have to be. You take a
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: fish on board, you've now you're displacing more water. You've dropped, However,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: imperceptibly the vessel has yeah, okay, gone lower, but it's
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: already on board, So when you put it on a scale,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: the damage is done, so to speak with the buoyancy.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: But I'm wondering if there's any world in which you
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: can't get an accurate weight on something while floating because
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: the weight is somehow being the This is high level physics.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure that it is. I want I say
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: it's not. You don't think it's high level. It's low level,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: easy to understand.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: You can't even if you can't use your words to
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: describe it. We all know what you're getting at.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Well. No, no, I think there's like black holes, black holes,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: and then above that incomplexity would be this issue I'm
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: trying to talk about interesting. You know, it's a little
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: bit more than yeah, yeah, a little bit more complicated
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: than a black hole. So it all just has to
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: The boat would never be completely still, and there would
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: be there the boat would be riding the waves up
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: and down.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: That could throw off a scale.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, if you took it to an extreme scale, like
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: imagine that bowl was just constantly going back and forth,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: you'd never get an accurate.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: Like hold something heavy in your hands and then jump
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: up in the air. It immediately you feel lightness and
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: when you come back down, you know, yeah, it's easy
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: to grasp.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, so fills on the side of the IGFA clear.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: But that's not this guy's problem. Okay, this guy says, no,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: this is this is harsh, but okay. He says, the
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: fish actually had zero documentation of its actual weight or length.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: They put it on a scale and they later had
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: the scale calibrated, but it was on a boat. Here's
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: where his real bone to pick happens. No photos are
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: here's another thing, no photos or independent witnesses verifying its size.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Haters gonna hate man. Probably that's problematic. Here's the one
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: thing he says, it really does really impact me. Okay, theoretically,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: I accept the water thing weighing on the water. I
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: accept there's no impartial observers. It's only their party. Okay.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: He kind of justified the photography and all that, And
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: they did take a number of pictures of the fish
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: to scale with certain objects that could be checked later,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: beer cans and other things.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: The boat, Right, that was just a guess. I don't.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: The guy says this though. Here's where his thing hangs up.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: The biggest muskie ever recorded to sixty one pounds, So
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: he's like seventy two huh, right, that is a big
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: it is They realized that a seventy two pound muskie
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: would be the equivalent of a five hundred and twenty
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: one inch typical bull elk, eighteen percent bigger than anything
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: that has ever been legitimately measured and documented. Fish records
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: like go like hundreds of years, and they advanced by
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: with the they advanced by ounces. Mm hmm. Right. I
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: only recently learned that the biggest bass ever caught was
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: recently tied by a bass in Japan. And the IGFA
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: accepts the tie, but right down to the right down
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: to the ounce right, that's how like slowly this thing advances.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: And also this guy, this, this guy and his grandpa
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: blow it out of the water by eleven pounds. That
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: sticks with me. That's interesting. Yeah, that sticks with me.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: You know, it seems more plausible though, that a fish
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: would be able to break that kind of record, though, Like, yeah,
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: if all of a sudden, there's never been a five
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: hundred inch free range bull elk ever killed, and then
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: all of a sudden there is one, and it would
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: be it's kind of like the top end of the
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: species in the wild, you see it. I know it's
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: the exact same thing, but it feels like there could
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: be a fish that just was way bigger than anything
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: we never caught it.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a little more believable. And Frank Mundas's disqualified world largest,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: world's largest fish ever caught on rod and reel, would
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: have stopped the past record.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: What it was fish, Well, it was a couple just to.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Give you a sense of how big this could move.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: He won time harpooned a great white there was four
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: thousand some pounds, Okay, then later went out and caught
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: a giant not as big as the one he harpooned
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: but he could just likely caught that. Everybody's like, wow,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: you harpooned it, so don't count. He's like, okay, I'll
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: catch on rod and reel went out and caught up
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: and then caught of thousands of pounds weight great white.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: But they handed the rod off. Oh he hooked it,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: gave the rod to his body so he could go
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: take the wheel, or vice versa. I can't remember which
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: igfa threw it out. It would be the biggest fish
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: ever caught on roden reel, by a way bigger bracket
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: than what this individual right here is pointing out. Now,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: the real problem here is that Krin's not here. Because
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: this person goes on to say, Steve really needs to
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: take just a few to brush up on his musky biology,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: and the history of faked musky records is actually fascinating.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: He should read a compendium Musky angling history by Larry
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: ram Sell. You really should do a musky podcast with
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: a musky expert. Actually, Larry Ramsell might make a good
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: podcast guest. He's probably forgotten more about muskies than most
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: musky experts ever knew, but he's still a wealth of knowledge.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Meaning even though he's think about the claim, take the
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: second greatest musky expert ever and measure his knowledge and
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: in bits of information. Larry has forgotten more bits about
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: muskies than that individual ever knew. Yet, in spite of
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: having forgotten that vast body of material, he still knows
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: more than number two.
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: Are you buying that? I mean, are you making fun
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: of that claim?
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: No, it's just a It seems an extremely knowledgeable individual
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: with that information.
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Now you, I mean, why don't you Why don't you
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: have this kid and his grandpa on and this musky
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: biologist on the same head to head like family feud
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: episode of Meat Eater.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: That's what I would like to do. That's why you're here, Claire. Yeah,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: can you make a note of that film?
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Family Mouskie Podcast.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Well I would. This is this is what we'll do.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: This is ant like a game show. This is no,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: it's just a conversation. This is an invitation too, And
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: this is not dependent on both like either one of
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: these things like that. Well, No, this is an imitation
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: for Larry Ramsell to come on and talk about We'll
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: talk about muskies, muskie records, the history of fraudulent muskies,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: the musky community. Yeah, muskies and I'll point out that
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: my maternal grandfather was an avid Musky angler, So you
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: got some skin in the game. Skin in the game.
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: You know when I run across stuff like this that
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: there's really no way to know for sure. I want
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: to look the guy in the eyes and have him
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: tell me the story. Like that's my go to. It's like,
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: come here, tell me that story. Me just just give
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: them and then then I can. It's like just reading
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: something deep.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Did you ditch on? Yeah, of course I did. You
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: never made that face at me?
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: Well, I was making that face in the back.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: It's like for real. So yeah, if we can get
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Larry Ramsell to come on the show, and it'd be
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: great to have Larry come on along with the kid
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: who wrote the Musky.
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: Manifesto, Yeah, that would be great. He'd do it, that kid,
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: he's passionate.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: You should uh before that, though, go read Pat Dirkins
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: articles called Mobsters, Arson and Photogrammetry, the World Record Musky
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: conspiracy theories, and he talks about Larry in that article
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: on the Meat Eater dot com.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: I'm dying to him on and now the guy I
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: hadn't gotten this far in his letter, he ends letter
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: real nice. I feel bad about all.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: I was gonna say something mean, what is saying?
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: He said? I look forward to hopefully odd syntax. I
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: look forward to hopefully a correction or recantation, or maybe
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: even an actual representative of the muskie community as a
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: podcast guest. I think that I duke. This individual's name
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: is Duke. Duke, I hear you. I will pursue having
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Larry Ramsell come on the show. Thank you, Duke to
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: talk about it all. Joke inside. I appreciate your note.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: In Dirkin's article, he says Larry Ramsell of Hayward is
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: the premiere historian of musky lore.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Dude, So there's how old is he? I don't know.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: You try to find out that's too old to come on?
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Is he?
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: He wrote a highly detailed book in nineteen eighty four,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: so that ten.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: He probably he was fifty.
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: I bet he was in his mid late thirties when
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: he wrote that. That's when most ambitious writers take off.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: Are seth or musky chet, you know, interested in this
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: kind of stuff?
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Or do they just like yeah, they they can't come
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: on the show as like a musky community expert.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Well, I wouldn't say expert, but representatives yeah.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, they could come and listen. Even Seth even what
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: are you finding?
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: He appears to be old but ill old. Well, that
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: looks like an old photo of him, and he looks
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: like an old man in that old photo.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Mmmm, damn it.
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: I'd taken in two thousand and four. The guy's still alive,
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: got a little spark left in him.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Larry, we will fly you out. We will listen, Larry,
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: this is this is like, this is. You're gonna get
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: great service. We will fly you out, all expense paid
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: trip to Bozeman, will put you up, we'll feed you.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: You'll come on the show and we'll talk musky lower.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Speaking of muskies, let's move on to sturgeon. There's like
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: a number of big news items going on right now
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: with fish. Yeah, with fish. So we covered pretty heavily that.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of angst when the there was
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: a push to list the Who could set this up
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: for me? It's a complicated setup. Not me. The US
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Service was doing a twelve month finding
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: okay on whether or not the Lake sturgeon warranted listing
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: under the Endangered Species Act okay, which was problematic to
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: recovery efforts in Wisconsin. Now, if you are a sturgeon,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: an aspiring sturgeon fisherman, all your attention lies in Wisconsin
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: where there's another there's a there's a number of uh
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: waterways in Wisconsin where you can spear sturgeon through the ice.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: There's some that's governed on a quota where's there's like
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: a general season opener and there's an opening day and
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: there's a sturgeon quota, and the quota gets hit and
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: it closes, and then there are some draw units in
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: these in these other lakes there are draw units where
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: can draw tag, and me and Yanni always put in
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: every year we're building our bonus points for our sturgeon
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: tags and the good lakes. So I'm acknowledging that I
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: have a bias here. I have a conflict of interest
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: as a reporter. Now, Wisconsin, while doing sturgeon very limited
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: sturgeon harvest, has been very, very successful at sturgeon recovery.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: They're making a lot of good progress on putting sturgeon
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: back in waters where they have been, where they were extirpated,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: and they're building this kind of like beautiful culture of
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: locals and people who are very invested in the resource
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: right very interested in sturgeon recovery, very bought into sturgeon.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: There's a culture around sturgeon spearing. It's a very celebrated fishery.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: It's a celebrated fish, okay. And they were worried about
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: the ESA listing because if it got the ESA list,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: this system by which Wisconsin has been managing sturgeon very
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: successfully with a great proven track record, would be upended,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: and the Feds would need to come in and say, hey,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: thanks for all the great work, but your whole cute
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: little sturgeon season thing is done, okay. And in a
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: case like that, what I fear happens when you in
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: a case like that, what I fear happens is you
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: take public goodwill and public sentiment and people rallying around
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: a cause, and you turn it into something that is
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: besides the fishery. It becomes like anger and frustration with
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: federal overreach. And it doesn't always need to be federal
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: because we're in we're We just left California yesterday. I
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: spent a bunch of time with divers in California and
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: they had a problem where the whole state had a
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: closure on abalony. They went from having you know, they
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: went from issuing whatever the hell was thirty thousand the
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: abalony tags a year to zero. And people brought up, well,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: why don't we try two thousand abalony tags a year.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Why don't we keep the harp, keep the fishery alive,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: keep the culture alive. Keep all these people who are
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: like big a baloney advocates, right, keep them engaged just
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: as a social play. Keep the culture of abalony diving
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: alive because these are like big proponents for the resource.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Gives the people incentive. There's people that celebrate, there's like
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: a baloney festivals and all this stuff, right, like like
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: pursue recovery, but maintain the culture. And they chose in
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: this case to just like done.
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: Abalony is a big muscle or clam, big mullusk.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big edible mullusk. So there was a
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: lot of handwringing. There's a lot of anxiety in Wisconsin
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: that they what they view to be the winning approach
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: on sturgeon recovery would have been threatened. But and we
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: reported on that a whole bunch, talked about that a
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: whole bunch, and this just out. We at the US
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Service are announcing our twelve month finding
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: that Lake Sturgeon does not warrant listing under the Endangered
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Species Act. Our agency brought together a team of biologists
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: to compile and examine the best available data and research
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: into a species status assessment. We solicited data from Native
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: nations and state agencies from across the species range and
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: invited them to provide information necessary for the development of
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: the SSA and to review the draft SSA report. Using
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: the best available science to aform to inform our delisting determination,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: we found that the species is not at risk of
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: extinction now or in the foreseeable future. We did not
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: find any populations of Lake Surgeon that met the criteria
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: for a distinct population segment. Our decision is a testament
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: to the great collaborative conservation work being done with our
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: partners from states, tribal nations, non governmental organizations, universities, and
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: other federal agencies across the species range. Hi's great news.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: In comments Larry is eighty two years old.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Exactly what I thought was.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Hayward, Wisconsin.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: We want to shoot him A note. No started out
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: say something like, hey, I heard your big hot shot
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: muskie community.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: I think he does have a website, though.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: You think he's still checking his emails.
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: You know, I think I think one of the biggest
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: plays in the success of the North American made of
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: wildlife conservation has been incentivizing people through limited access to
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: the resource, even if it's even if it's a little bit,
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: that's powerful.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: I think I think you need to maintain it at
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: all costs. Yeah, just well, let's take let's take a
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: look at a couple examples.
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: I feel like we're in a class. When he said that,
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: it felt like he was a teacher. Well, that'll just
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: start writing notes.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Have only been recovered across I think twenty four maybe
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: not even fourteen percent of their historic range. Okay, so
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: we look and be like, Okay, if we're going to
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: take a national perspective, elk should be an esa species.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: They're absent from their historic range Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, Tennessee, Kentucky,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: West Virginia, Pennsylvania. No, no, no, no, I'm sure you have
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: little pockets in some of those states, very small pockets
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: in some of those states. But by any examination, LKSHB
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: and eesa species, they're regionally extirpated across the majority of
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: their range. But lo and behold, we hunt them where
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: they're abundant, right, bighorn sheep. Now, there are states that
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: issue small handfuls of big horn sheep tags. They're extinct
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: across tons of their native range. But where you have
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: a harvestable of small harvestable surplus, we still carry on
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: the tradition of sheep hunting, which gives us like the
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Wild Sheep Society, like, which gives us sheep conservation groups
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: because hunters that will never ever have a chance to
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: hunt a sheep are sheep conservationists because they view it
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: as this like part of the menagerie of big game
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: animals in America that they might aspire to one day
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: hunt for. If you strip that, you lose that. Yeah,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: and it becomes emblematic of something different. Yeah, pretty brilliant. Really.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Oh it's a great system. Yeah. But I wrote in
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: with a Johnny Cash album cover that I was unaware of.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: I saw that you need to put that on your
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: social media. Well here's the deal, I keep say. I'm
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: not going to bring it up anymore, but last I
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: saw a couple fresh set eyes will find more Beans
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: T shirts.
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: Oh did you in Sacramento.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: At Sacramento show. I saw three people wearing fresh set
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: eyes will Find More Beans t shirts. Now, there's a
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: Johnny Cash album called.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Look at Them Beans.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: I wonder at what point in his career that he
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: had that now, but let's take a look. Could have
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: been Probably was in the struggling years. Yeah, I want
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: to explain what I'm seeing on the cover. Now, I'm
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: gonna put this. I'll put this on social media. Basically,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Johnny Cash is corroborating or stealing my saying. On this
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: album cover, Johnny Cash is wearing a blue denim shirt.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: He has reclined on his back, using as a pillow
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: a mountain of beans. He's reclining on a pile of
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: pole beans. A young boy, maybe eight, wearing a plaid shirt,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: is laying on Johnny Cash's chest, his elbows resting on
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Johnny Cash's sternum upper abdomen, and the child is holding
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: two more fistfuls of beans. Right, what I'm getting from
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: the image is that Johnny Cash has found all these
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: beans that he's laying on. But here's this young child
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: representing a fresh set of eyes.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: I see it, by the way, I just looked it up.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Here's the sun representing a fresh set of eyes, and
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: what does the sun? And what does he have? Beans?
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: More beans? Beans in his hand?
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Nineteen seventy five, The.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Fresh set of eyes found more beans. I was one
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: years old. What's the happening?
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: You listened to song?
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: No phill you mind playing a clip?
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: You for copyright reasons?
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: I do, No, you can play a clip. We're having
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: a discussion about it.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: Oh that's true. Yeah, but you know YouTube doesn't care
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: that we're having a discussion about can't you tell him? Now?
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: Hey, look at that beans, and look at that corn,
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: and I bet them watermelons must be three feet long. Man,
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: look at them tomatoes, and look at them peas well.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: I know if Papa was here right now, he'd sure
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: be pleased.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: I apologize to the YouTube audience. You're not gonna hear this.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: It's a nice full sound.
• 53:26
  Speaker 7: This time last year, the show was a lot of
• 53:28
  Speaker 7: sad faces.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Around this old house.
• 53:31
  Speaker 7: Our papa died without fulfilling his life's dream of producing
• 53:35
  Speaker 7: one of the best crops in Grimes counting m No.
• 53:38
  Speaker 7: Papa died with a dream still in his head. I
• 53:41
  Speaker 7: desire in his heart, a promise on his lips. Call
• 53:43
  Speaker 7: us is on both hands.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: And two dollars in his pocket.
• 53:46
  Speaker 7: Papa didn't live long enough to see his dream come true,
• 53:49
  Speaker 7: so he died from too much work, a broken spirit,
• 53:52
  Speaker 7: I guess. But I promised to our mama that if
• 53:55
  Speaker 7: it was the last thing he'd ever do, he had
• 53:57
  Speaker 7: lived long enough to see just one good crop.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: Controversial. If I suggest that Johnny Cash actually as bad
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: as Rapp, we don't know.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think it is at all.
• 54:07
  Speaker 7: Man.
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: Hey, when I hear these little preambles to these songs,
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: it's it's I feel like I need that for my ballads,
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: like a little like a little forty fifty second like
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: Johnny Cash, the father.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Of rap, that would father? I like that? Did you
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: get first wrapper, Clay?
• 54:25
  Speaker 8: Did you get some inspiration for a new ballad listening
• 54:28
  Speaker 8: to that?
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: I did, Like just a just a preamble, like a
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: smokeing preamble.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: I used to do that a lot.
• 54:33
  Speaker 8: Yeah you got code? Did that tone for it? You
• 54:36
  Speaker 8: should start doing that?
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Two our things we got we got a hand
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: with those handful of the things we got hit. But
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: here's two our things. Oh so if you go back,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know what what what episode was what episode
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: was our hog hunting podcast episode?
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: Phil oh Man, I don't know the number, but it's yeah,
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: you don't have it allread in Texas. No, I don't.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: It's been a thousand podcastings I've been working here, yep.
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: But it's it's easy to find the Texas Hog Hunt.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Not too long ago there was a podcast epical episode
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: with Cam Haynes called the Texas Hog Hunt. Well, we
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: also down there shot some video and you can go
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: find that that video of hunting some hogs with Cam
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: Haynes on YouTube. So not only did the podcast episode,
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: but there's some hunting some hunting action.
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: Well, there were a couple. There's the one we wear
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: Korean shoots the hog and there's a separate one with
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: Cam Haynes.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: The Hammering Hogs with Cam Haynes was episode five twenty two.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: Got it. Also a duck hunting video with Clay Matthews
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: is out where we did a podcast with Clay Matthews,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: a famous football player, and film some stuff there. That
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: video is out. Both those are out on YouTube.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: That was episode five twenty Also.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: Folks need to go to we had so some episodes back.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: We had a guest on from Cypress Cove Marina down
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: Louisiana and we talked about I talked with him Renee
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: Cross is his name, about My experience is going down
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: to Cypress Coved Marina spearfishing, becoming friends with Renee at
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Cypress Cove Marina, and we kicked off where we're doing
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: like a takeover at Cypress Coved Marina and doing a
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: big fishing trip party. So that is meat eat If
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: you want to join and go down for inshore, offshore fishing,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: fish cleaning, local food, the great trip for a few days.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Go check out Meat Eater Experiences. You can go to
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: our website and go to Media Experiences and find details
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: on those trips coming up for fishing in October and
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: then for waterfoul in December January. Just go check that out.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Are you going to one of those clay Yeah? Which one?
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: Venice?
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: Brent's gonna be in Venice and also Kansas Waterfowl.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be down there in Venice.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: With Clean Steve.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: Uh well, Chili's going to be there.
• 57:03
  Speaker 8: I'll be there on the second half. Y y, he's
• 57:06
  Speaker 8: gonna be there, yeah.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: Cal Oh and doctor Randall. Yeah, he won the one
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: won a trip doctor Randall won a trip won the
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: company through the company basketball thing I made.
• 57:21
  Speaker 6: I made Randall feel real bad about winning actually, because
• 57:25
  Speaker 6: well I just told him. I'm like, Randall, like you
• 57:27
  Speaker 6: seem to win everything. You win trivia, you win all
• 57:30
  Speaker 6: these trips, you get to go on bear hunts, like
• 57:32
  Speaker 6: you know, there's some someone else at the office that
• 57:34
  Speaker 6: maybe really wanted to go.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: That is true. Yeah, well it's Randall.
• 57:38
  Speaker 6: And he like looked at me with all this worry
• 57:40
  Speaker 6: because Brie was Bree, our coworker, really wanted to go.
• 57:44
  Speaker 6: I was like, you do you just stole that trip
• 57:46
  Speaker 6: from her? And uh, he kind of felt bad.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: And I bet he looked like he was worried.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: I got a problem with Randall. Well, he likes to
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: think he's running with the big dogs on wildlife. I've
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: got two things he's got. He's got a line on
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: a badger that I've been looking to get. Did he
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: send you the video? Yeah, still hasn't gotten me my permission.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: And my kids are in the pigeon selling business, and
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Randall's got a line on some pigeons and he hasn't
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: sealed the deal on that either. Wow, It's like two things.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: You could you come to and hey, I could sure
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: use some help on that badger. I could show you
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: some help on those pigeons. Months go by, not a
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: bit of progress.
• 58:24
  Speaker 8: Well, I think with the badger we made a deal.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: Too busy winning winning stuff, not busy enough working.
• 58:31
  Speaker 6: Well, we made the deal that I got to go
• 58:32
  Speaker 6: try to catch that badger with my bare hands, which
• 58:34
  Speaker 6: you don't think I can do.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: I can catch it with your brands. I can not
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: gonna let you try. And if you did get a
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: try and it's not gonna work, it's gonna work. Did
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: you see mercer ings arms at other night from trying
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: to catch a bob cat? Well, that's a bobcat.
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: A lot a lot of those animals, like like raccoons
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: and beavers, when you grab them, they just they don't
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: have the flexibility to get you if you get them
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: right behind on the nape of the neck. Now I
• 58:56
  Speaker 4: wouldn't I don't. I don't think i'd want to be
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: catching it back.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: But no, you know those animals like that with short
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: legs and a lot of muscle you don't want to
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: tussle with.
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: Well, what what do you think about hand catching a raccoon.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: I have a I have a method. Well, because we
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: have pet raccoons. You just pick him up by the scruff.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: Well you can.
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: You can also if you see a raccoon that's just
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: out in the big field, like at night. Yeah, it's
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: very easy to catch him. Run up to them, tap
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: them in the rear end. They'll spin around and then
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: you kind of just kind of juic with them a
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: little bit, and then when they turned to run, you
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: grab them by the tail and they cannot get you.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. My mom used to throw them out of the
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: house by the tail because they'd get into the house
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: and throw them back out of the house by the tail.
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna in defensive Randall. I don't think he admitted
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: this to you. Something tells me he was probably embarrassed
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: to but that quote that that I lost quote unquote
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: about the pharaohs and the babies that you had framed
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: in the off Randall spent hours days looking for that quote.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know if he told you how.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: He told me. When his wife was watching something that
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: wasn't that couldn't hold his interest, he would try to
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: find that.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: He read complete books on the off chance that a
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: quote that The quote might be in the book. You'll
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: have to ask him exactly which ones, but it was.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: It was an embarrassing amount of time.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: And you feel that.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: I feel like you should. You should be grateful Randall
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: cares about you that much.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: No, I am, but I just feel like he's kind
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: of burning me on this badger pigeon situation.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, nobody's perfect.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that you won all that stuff, and I'm
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: glad he wins all the trivia. Here. Here's one last
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: thing I want to discuss. There's a couple things I
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: wanted to discuss. There's two Chettikot questions, even though Chester's
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: not here. And then there's this some hot news coming
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: out of Arizona. Well, how do you guys feel about
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: the fact that the Arizona Fish and Game the Arizona Game,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Game and Fish Commission just voted four to one to
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: eliminate governor's tags, the governor's auction tags. Mhmm, Well, I think.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: If they can prove that like a raffle will come
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: close to raising the same amount of money, then that's great.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: But if not, they're just like saying goodbye to hundreds
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: Well over the course of years.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so did they do it just because like people
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: were disputed as like this rich guy's game where it's
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: just totally kind of like public and.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Some way it had gotten too big. I think it
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: was two years ago they broke the record in back
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: to back days, once for the animalop Island tag and
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: then again for Arizona the next day. And maybe like
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: if that didn't happen, maybe if the dollar amounts are smaller,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: like this wouldn't be the case.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a quick deep dive for folks. This
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: debate in some way centers around interpretations of what we
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: call the North American model a big game. Uh, what's
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: it called? North American model America wild big game wildless sorry,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: wildlife conservation where one of the tenants I think there's
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: seven tenants in the model that we use. This is
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: not a formal, codified model. It's it's like it's like
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: a sort of a living document. One of the tenants
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: is that you have democratic allocation of wildlife. Okay, some
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: argue that doing a governor's tag or tag auction is
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: not democratic allocation of wildlife and a little out of
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: order in this expimation. I'll point out what that is.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: So here you're taking a you can the state of
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: Arizona might go out and give out dozens of big
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: horn cheap tags, okay to people who drew, to people
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: who drew, but they take one of those tags. They'll
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: take one of those tags, and they'll usually create special
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: parameters around it. They'll take a big horn tag and
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: they'll say, Okay, this big horn tag is not just
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: good for the season. This big horn tag is good
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: for three hundred and sixty five days. Here's a big
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: horn tag that's good for the entire calendar year, and
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: it's good for any unit that's open to sheep hunting.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: So you're making like a mega tag, right, and then
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: you auction it to the highest bidder. Now, since this
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: highest bidder is gonna get first cracks at any sheet,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: in the longest crack at any sheet, they can be
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: very valuable. So if you have a scout group, like
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: an outfitter who's got an eye on a big big horn,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: big desert big horn, whatever, you're gonna get it. You
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: already got enough money to buy the damn thing. You're
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: definitely have enough money to get it. And you're they're
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: gonna put you on it, okay, And these tags sell
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: for lots of money. So it used to be that
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: you'd hear of governor's tags being two hundred grand, two
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty grand, and then it's crept up into
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: the like.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: Seven hundred thousand I think was the Arizona record that
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: was set.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so here you have a person paying upwards
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: of three quarters of a million dollars.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: Is that what we saw auctioned off at the Western
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: Hunt Western Hunt Expo?
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know what, I don't remember what I.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: Mean, it went for like five hundred thousand dollars.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: Well, they had a night where they set a record
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: and the record only lasted like a hour, and they
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: broke the record again that night. So here you have
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: where you're taking granted, you're taking a sheep tag out
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: of the pool and giving it to the highest bidder,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: so it's not democratically allocated, it's it's to the richest
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: man in the room. However, all of that fund goes
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: to habitat work. Okay, So these governor tags that they
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: just got rid of, I think since two thousand, since
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: the mid two thousands, they've raised eleven million dollars for habitat.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: All that money goes into the Department's Habitat part Partnership Committee. Okay,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: so it's it's a huge pile of conservation money. This
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: it's one of those issues that I look at and
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: it's like I can't even make up my mind, Like
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: both sides are so clear to me, Like both sides
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: of the argument are so clear to me that it
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: winds up being one of the rare things. It's just
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: like hard for me, Like if I had to make
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: the decision unilaterally, I would lose tremendous amounts of sleep
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: and would never be able to decide because I get
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: it the appearance of taking a resource it's supposed to
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: be democratically allocated and auctioning it off to the highest bidder.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: Like I get how that frustrates people, but I also
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: get how it brings in huge amounts of money for
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: wildlife habitat. Yeah, in exchange for one animal, in exchange
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: for one animal. Yeah, Now here's a little like Colorado
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: is opening up. Colorado's taking a new unit that hasn't
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: been open for hunting. Okay, this is this is kind
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: of like something that's going on right now, Colorado's got
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: a new unit. It's gonna open up for big horns.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: There's a pretty well known big horn in that unit.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: The potentially is gonna be the new world record big.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: Horn right now.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Yep, people all know about it. They just are creating
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: a new unit. His unit is getting opened. Everybody knows
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: about him. All of a sudden. That Governor's tag this
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: year is very valuable. Why because you're gonna get there's
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: one tag. Maybe it's gonna be a one tag unit,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: but the Governor's tag is good for any unit that
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: has hunting. You're you're you're buying the animal. And a
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: lot of the Governor's tags go like that, Like someone
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: will go to a bitterer and be like, here's what
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: we have, here's our like here's a dossier on the
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: available animals, Like we got a stud meal 're on
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: Anilo Island. Do you want in? Because the minute you
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: buy this tag, we're gonna get it. We're gonna put
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: you there and you're gonna make the shot. Mm hmm.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: So people don't like it, but it's just a ton
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: of money for habitat and like it doesn't it make
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: sense that all of those millions of dollars have way
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: more than like, way more than made up and producing
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: wildlife to make up for the one animal that that
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: that one animal year that all that money costs, like
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: eleven million bucks probably buys you a lot about horns
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: from habitat work. Yeah, you know, even if you regard
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not using this is not my term, but even
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: if you looked at it totally like a deal with
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: the devil, it's not a bad deal. Yeah. I don't
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: view it as a deal with the devil at all.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: I'm saying, like, even if you have that perspective, it's
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: not a bad deal. Yeah, but it stings people. There's
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: people that like, man, I've been applying to play the
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: game and apply for a big horn tag for thirty years,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: never drew one, never will and then you you're just
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: selling them off to some guy that can buy a
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: new one every year. Why not?
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: But I feel like, I like, i'd like, I don't
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: want to advance any further beyond what it was. But
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: you already see it in some other states with like
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: it's not the same, but it feels like it in
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: some ways, Like in Wyoming, you can apply special or
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: regular for a tag right, yea, and regular irregular deer
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: tag might cost you three hundred and fifty dollars. But
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: if you apply special, you're applying for like a thousand dollars,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: so you can get a more limited pool.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: You pay more money to get in a more limited pool.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, So that's like happening on a smaller scale.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: But in this case, I'm I'm okay with the governor's tags.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of money.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: There are many, many cases, I mean to be easy
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: to explain them all. There are many cases where this
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: gets subverted a little bit like and it's always where
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: the democratic allocation thing gets skewed, and it often is
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: in service of the goal of while they have habitat.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: For instance, some states do these things called transferable landowner tags,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: where if a landowner has certain acreage of ground that
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: provides habitat for a species, the landowner gets tags. Now,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: it was historically like, hey, you own all this land,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: the animals live on your place, here's a tag. You
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: should be able to hunt regardless of whether you draw
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: a tag or not. But then they make them transferable,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: and they make them sell and they make them unit wide.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: So let's say I could have one thousand acres in
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: New Mexico that doesn't even have a prong horn on it. Okay,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: but I get my transferable land unit wide landowner pronghorn tag,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: which I can sell on the open market because it's
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: good for the whole unit, not just my property. So
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: I'm being rewarded for my property with the tag that
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: I then sell to Chili for six thousand bucks. U.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Chili doesn't even hunt my place. Chili goes and hunts
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: BLM or whatever, never steps foot on my place. Some
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: people go like, what is this that seems different? What
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: is this? How is this the North American model?
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah, a lot of people were talking about that with
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 6: like the New Mexico calan Jason Felks, and they were like,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 6: how did you guys pull text? How did you guys
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 6: pull text? Like, no, that there's other avenues that you take. Yeah,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 6: and they're like how to like without getting into the
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 6: numbers of it, like how do you guys know about that?
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 6: It's like it's pretty common, but a lot of people
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 6: just don't know, So no.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: They don't. And it winds up that it winds up
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: that you're acknowledging to landowners that like owning land, providing
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: wildlife habitat. In some states it's actually measured by certain
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: things you do to create to increase and create habitat.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: But it's like owning land is expensive, private land is
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: vital to wildlife conservation. We're incentivizing landowners to be good
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: stewards of the land by rewarding them for providing this
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: habitat to a state resource. It all had like, you know,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: there's no case. You can't go to any case of
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: any kind of tag allocation and point to it as
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: being like completely self serving, counterproductive. Right, It's all things
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: meant to lubricate, facilitate wildlife management in the country and
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: find funding for wildlife resources and a problem with what's
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: happening in Arizona. And again it blows my mind that
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: they voted four to one to get rid of auction
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: tags because the hope is that they're going to use
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: it in raffles. So here's another tag thing. I always
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: joined state raffles a bunch of them. You can put
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: in for a tag, as everybody does, or you can
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: buy raffle tickets. I just looked at one today. There's
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: a raffle in Alaska right now. It's one hundred bucks
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: per ticket and it's a full, all expense paid. It's
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: a caribou tag that comes with guide, and so you
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: get like caribou tags, guides and all that trip for
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: two I didn't buy a ticket, but it's a hundred
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: bucks for a ticket. Okay, it's gonna raise a ton
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: of money for Alaska. But it's not an auction. It's
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: a raffle. Meaning they're looking and saying I think people
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: can that really want to get involved. I don't think
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: a hundred bucks is prohibitive. There's other things where for
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: five bucks a ticket you can try to get raffle tags,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: so in addition to the normal tag draw.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 4: So they think they can compensate for the loss of
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: funds with a raffle that would raise as much money
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 4: as that raise half a million dollars potentially for that
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 4: one like bighorn tag or elk tag in Arizona.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: Well, let me this isn't apples and apples, but I'll
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: give you an example of the power of raffles. So
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: every year Jannis and I do that Theodore Roosevelt Conservation
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: Partnership right Turkey Hunt giveaway. Yep, So we volunteer our time,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: a landowner volunteers their place, and we do a hunt
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: with winners. So we used to do that hunt as
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: an auction, okay, and it would be that the highest
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: bidder would get a hunt for him and his buddy. Yeah.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: People were like disappointed in this because how can they compete?
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they don't have ten twenty thousand, five thousand more.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, the people would pay, so like we kind of
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: felt that right. It was like, yeah, maybe there's another
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: way and it's more complicated, but we instituted a raffle hunt.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: And the thing about doing a raffle hunt by law,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: for that kind of raffle hunt, you don't you have
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: to have a way for people to enter for free
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: sweepstake's law, Like you can't do like those nonprofit giveaways
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: about having a free option. Okay, Even despite that, when
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: we went to when we went to a raffle, ten
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: bucks gets you a ticket, we tripled the money. Really
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: for TRCP, we tripled the money when we went from
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: auction to raffle.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: How did you figure out the free way?
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: He's got to go on some website and write some
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: letter and send it in. We've never had a free
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: entry win. It's a random draw, and as far as
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: I know, we've never had a free entry win. I
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: don't think anybody does it.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like ten bucks.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: I don't think anyone's really out there working that hard
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: to try to avoid it, you know what.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 4: Like talking about the big auction tags, I would love
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: to hear someone get like the most extreme but also
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: intelligent case for why those auction tags are detrimental. I'd
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: really like to hear that argument, because it's possible that
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: stuff like this is shortsighted and it's like, yeah, we
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 4: can get seven hundred thousand dollars for this tag today,
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 4: But this is building this mechanism into the model that
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 4: fifty years from now is going to turn into something
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: crazy where all the big horn tags and wherever our
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: our auction tags all of a sudden. That's that's because
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: you know, I see both sides of it too, and
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: at first I don't have any problem with it. I'm
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: like one tag, one tag, let that one tag go
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 4: to do this and.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: Build this culture.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 4: It also builds this sense of you know, hunting value,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 4: which is good for an animal like a big horn
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 4: sheep that needs a lot of money, needs a lot
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 4: of special care needs, a lot of hypercent sensitive management,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: transport and animals working on habitat depredation, all this stuff.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 4: But I would like to hear a guy that wasn't
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 4: just mad about not getting to play because he didn't
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: have the money. There's plenty. I mean, so you know
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: the guy that's like just mad because some rich guy
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: got it, I'd like to hear ineligion argument.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: I think it's the perception that you've pulled and Governor's
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: takes are more than just big horns. It was like, yeah, tags, Yeah,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: there's Governor's tags for most of we to big game animals.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: I think it's that you've pulled an animal out of
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: the public pool, or you've created a tag. You've created
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: a tag in addition to the public pool. And if
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: that's the case, you're like, well where did that come from?
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: If we can kill that big horn in addition to
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: the ones we're doing before, was it just arbitrary the
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: number of tags that were available before. Yeah, so you're
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: saying there's another tag, we can get another big horn,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: but that one's not available to working class people who
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: are applying all their life and will never draw it.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: You're you're sort of out of the blue creating one
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: for rich people to be able to go and kill me.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: Why to kill a dos a big horn? Why was
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: it there before? Well, why can't I have a shot
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: at it? And and and and again. It's just very
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: surprising to me that this went four to one, especially
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: the fact that it comes on a number of, like
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: very coming on the on the tail of a bunch
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: of very high profile auction record setting big game auctions.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: Right if it was in decline and you're seeing that
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: the tags are devalued and pretty soon guys are buying
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: the auction tag for one hundred thousand dollars, and you
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: might go, like, you know what, man, it's not raising
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: any money anymore. It's kind of lost, it's luster. It
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: creates a lot of social tension. Why not get rid
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: of it. It's weird that it like starts going up, up, up,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: up into insane amounts of conservation dollars and then they're like,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: then get.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 4: Well it kind of it's kind of the same trend
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 4: that we see in society at all levels, that there's
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: this scrutiny on the ultra wealthy.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think in this case there's like very
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: specific examples too that feel kind of vicky. When it's
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: like the Jimmy Johns founder, like he's had some bad
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: hunting pr in the past, and you know it's him
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: buying the tag and it's gonna like go on his
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: wall of one hundred and fifty other animals, and I
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: think for the folks that's just like a kind of gross.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: But if it was like a no named fella from Nevada,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: like I think one of those record breaking tags was
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: that maybe doesn't sting as much to folks.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: And there's a hunting there's a hunting style that goes
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: with the Governor tags that winds up being off putting
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: the people.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 9: Where people all over the mountains, there's certain I don't
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 9: want to get into names on this, but there's certain
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 9: outfitting players that have really there's certain outfitting players that
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 9: have played really heavy in the.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: Governor's Tag world. And they'll find animals, Okay, they'll put
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: guys on them, monitor them around the clock, bring a
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: guy in. The guy comes in, shows up, makes the shot,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: and it's kind of like there's a perception that they're
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: not even hunting, yeah, like other people are doing it.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: It leads to you know, they're like there's a case
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: where like, oh, they're blocking off row to try to
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: impede access. They're harassing other hunters who are in the area.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: They're putting a guy on every hilltop to watch the
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: animal to make sure no one else gets it. They're
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: gonna spook it out of the way if someone else comes,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah. All this all this hysteria and they
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: didn't even hunt it anyway, and so then it creates
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: it kind of sours the whole thing. But it's like,
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: do the big do the does the sheep habitat that
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: the money helps? Does that sheep habitat care? How that
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: guy conducted the hunt. They didn't break the law.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: That's Clay's uh journal about horse happiness.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: Will hate the player, No, don't hate the don't hate
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 4: the player hate.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: Don't hate the player, hate the game. And in this case,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: don't hate the player, hate the game. They hated the
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: game and they got rid of the game. Well, I'm
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: actually I'm I'm.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 4: Kind of pleased to see that it went towards like
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 4: the vote was towards sure something that was more conservative
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 4: you'd rather. I mean, like, what if they had voted
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 4: to make six of the tags governor tags.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: That would be bad. We'd all be like, now, come well,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know that would be six times. That would
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: be that there was sixty six million dollars going into
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: WILDI I think that.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 4: Would tip the scales of public sentiment towards Wait a minute,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 4: this is getting out of hand. I mean, like, twenty
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: years from now, it's gonna be they're all gonna be
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: paid for it, you know. But but the one and
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 4: that's where I would like to hear an intelligent argument
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 4: of people that had insight, maybe even from other realms
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: of society where there's like a slippery slope or something
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 4: like twenty years from now, your kids are going to
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 4: be you know, this is gonna happen.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: I was talking to a guy the other night, and
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: I'd like to get him on the show. I'm not
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: going to say who said this opinion to me, but
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna articulated guy's opinion that I was talking to
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: the other night. I'd like him to come on the show.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: He works in policy. He was viewing this as a
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: sort of anti hunting movement, and he had an interesting fact.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: If he said anytime wildlife managers, commissions, whoever. Politicians are
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: presented with a split and hunting, and there are some hunters.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: They're presented with two sides of an argument, and there
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: are some hunters on each side. They will go with
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: the anti hunting side, meaning let's say you're looking at
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: a trap band, a public land trap band, and they're like, man,
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: I don't want to piss off hunters and trappers. But
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: then you get some hunters who are going to come
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: and say, oh, I like that band because it's safer
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: for my bird dog. That gives them cover. Yeah, and
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: he says invariably, Invariably, the minute some hunters give cover
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: to an anti hunting position, the politicians are going to
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: go anti hunting because it places more people well, because
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: that's the way they want to go, and they need
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: to justify it. And the minute they can have all
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: hunter to point to, they can tip that way and
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: feel that they're not anti hunting. And he felt, and
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: I don't even I don't like, I don't agree with him,
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: but I want to have him on to talk about it.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: He feels that going away from governor's tags is a
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: anti hunting sentiment, and I don't really know that I don't.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: I've been wrestling with that since he sat it to me,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: and I don't know that I agree with that. Hmmm.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: I don't think I agree with it, but I could
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: be swayed, especially in like a kind of a famously
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: purple state like Arizona, that maybe that is the case
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: for some things.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. I'd like to hear that argument. I want
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: to have Mon. I want to have Mon to talk
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: about that argument. Uh, you guys are right for two cheticos,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: they're gonna wrap it up.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: Are you gonna ask Phil about Disney? You think or not?
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: I thought about asking the Disney, but I didn't know
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: that Phil. I don't know that Phil could tell our
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: listen theres anything about Disney they didn't already know.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: That's absolutely not true.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Phil took a day off on a live tour
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: on the live too. We had a day off and Phil,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: was it even a day off? Phil? No, it wasn't.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: We had a show that night. Phil got up sort
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: of like how Spencer woke up at five thirty to
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: go rock counting this morning, I woke up at five
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: thirty to go to a theme part.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: Phil spent set his alarm Okay, he set his alarm
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: and woke up early to go by himself to Disney.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: And we had a lot of jokes about how they're
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: probably gonna monitor Phil all day long with security, wondering
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: why a single mail of his age would be at Disney.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: But he went. And what did you find out? Phil?
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: You'd been there before?
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, probably around nine or ten times.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: How much does it cost to get in? Well, man,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: it is more more or less than a governor's day.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: Uh this, I mean, how much does it cost to
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: get in? This is part this is part of the
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: whole like corp corporate monopolistic stuff that comes in. It
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: was a lot of money Clay for like one day
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: at a theme park I think after like taxis shoes,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: it was like one hundred and fifty dollars.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: That corporate monopoly. What how do they have a monopoly?
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: Of course there's theme park. Well, well it's not even
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: just like Disney. Disney owns everything they've got, like like
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: TV stations and networks and cruise ships and everything. But
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying they find every way to milk as
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: much money as they can, which is their right.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 4: As when he gets done talking about Disney, you feel
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 4: like the government should take over Disney like the Russian Revolution.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 3: Absolutely not, I'm saying over the over the ten or
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: fifteen years, Disney has been transforming their theme party experience
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 3: to be anti consumer and anti guest by letting you
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: pay more money to cut in lines, which they didn't.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: We did when my family went. We did the we
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: did the rich people bought. We bought a thing to
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: let us cut.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: And I think about you differently now. I was in
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 3: my element. I had the time of my life.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: The long run.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: They're there, the two bummers, clay splash, Mountain, haunted mansion
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 3: to to al Teimers shut down for renovation. That's that was.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 3: That was a bads.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: But Phil, did you buy the thing to let you cut?
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 8: No?
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 3: I did not.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: Can I tell you sometimes I want to tell you
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: about why I bought the cut thing? Okay. I think
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: if I talked to you about it and give you
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: a little background, I think that you'll you won't dislike
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: me as much.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: It wasn't like that you want me to respect you.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: It wasn't about I'll tell Phil about it in private
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: later and I think he'll say, like, I think you
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: did the right thing.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 4: Okay, I want to tell you about the Warner the
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 4: Disney film that Warner Glenn start in.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: Can I just fill one last?
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 4: Disney don't talk about I know when I just wanted
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 4: to like put it in before we change subject.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: And I can't go into all the details we had discussed.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: I feel like since the last time you had been there, Phil,
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: they had started allowing their characters to like, uh, look
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: more like themselves in the real world, where they can
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: have tattoos.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 3: Kind of like characters like you're not gonna see Aladdin
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 3: with his full sleeve, but like their employees, like you
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 3: can have piercing And.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: Did you did you witness that? Did it change the experience?
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 3: I did didn't pay a whole lot of attention, But
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: I would anybody care about that? Disney's hold over from
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 3: a different era, Like Walt Disney was a very uptight
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 3: sort of traditionalist, And they still don't even sell alcohol
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: in the theme park, Like there's only one place you
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 3: can get alcohol and that's at a bar in the
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 3: Star Wars area.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: And and you found you feel that Disney is is
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: gotten too big, and he's like they need to be
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: like a mon like a like a Trustbuster, like they
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: need to break Disney up. Kinda Yeah, but don't you
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: realize that they that they they invented all that stuff.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I feel I feel there's a part of
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 3: me that feels really gross going there. But like they're
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 3: just masters of production design and putting on a show
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 3: and like like transporting you somewhere else through sounds and
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 3: smells and sight and stuff.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: It's like it's like our lives.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 3: It's just like our live show. Apologies to the woman
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 3: who had a conversation with me after I stuffed my
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 3: mouthful of sushi last night. That was that was a
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 3: century experience for her.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: I'm sure.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 3: Anyway, Yeah, I had a blast.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: You had a blast. Fair to say that you hate. Yeah.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't consider myself a Disney adult because they're they're
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 3: sort of like Disney can do no wrong. They're very apologetic,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 3: and they're kind of creepy. I I I I like
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 3: to keep my arm's length away from those people. But
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 3: I just I like I like the show. I like
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: the like the theatricality of.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: The whole film. You're a critic, You're a critical.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: I'm a critic one hundred percent.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good for you.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 3: Phil Thanks, Spencer, Yeah, yeah, no, I got to go
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 3: on a bunch of rides. No kids, no, no people
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 3: like like Spencer and Clay to drag around. And even
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 3: though I would have loved for you guys to come,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 3: I really wanted Clay to come to Frontierland with me
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 3: and ride the Daivy Crocket can use to Tom Sawyer Island.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 3: But I thought he might say something like, oh, my
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 3: culture is not your costume and then like punch me
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: in the throat or something. I didn't want to deal.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: With that my culture is not Can you tell us
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: the thing? What was the thing that most two questions? Yeah,
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: most delighted you on your your mourning at Disney and
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: what most irked you at your your morning at Disney.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: This is like, this is not good podcasting material because
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: it's just like very deep, I disagree stuff, but.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: This is like this turned into therapy figure.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: Well, yes, somewhat. Rise of the Resistance a very state
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 3: of the art and new Star Wars themed ride. Some
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: of the special effects weren't working when the when the
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: whole ride is based around these kind of like cool
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 3: special effects, when two of them aren't working, I was disappointed.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 3: I was disappointed in that Kylo Ren's lightsaber didn't come
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: through the ceiling. The cannons were moving back and forth.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 3: Real ones, write me, let me know what that that
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: You understand what I'm saying, Indiana Jones. They made some
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: some upgrades that the riders getting a little in there.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, big cobra, that hiss is right at your face.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it was good, but they added some projections.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 3: That was the one line. I waited forty five minutes
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: far as the longest I had to wait in line
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 3: because I had to. I did single rider lines.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: Did like the working man's ticket.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah that's right. I waited forty five minutes in line.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 3: Nothing rich, you know, didn't have a VIP guide getting
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 3: food for me and showing where the bathrooms were. I
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 3: defined it myself like a real uh hard work, like
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 3: a real American, like a pioneer, like Daniel Boone.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: Your Star Wars experience was like Yanni wanted for us
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: to ask for some money back from our last hotel.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: Is they their hot water wasn't working, so he thought
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: we were we were owed something.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah for that. I didn't. I didn't ask George because
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 3: for money, my money back though my wife.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: Was recently in the hotel and they had messed up
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: the bleach in the pool so bad that it bleached
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: her swimsuit. And when she went up to notify him
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: that it like, I mean, it bleached her swimsuit. What well,
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: that's what she was curious about. And she went up
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: there treating her like a big diva. It's just like, listen,
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: look at my slipsuit. It bleached.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 3: Anyway, Thanks thanks for asking, Steve.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, here's two chettikots ready for this. I am a
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: law enforcement officer. This is a juicy one. That's not
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: that's not the right word. It's juicy. I'm a law
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: enforcement officer on a state forest which is open to
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing. A benefit to this job is I
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: get to I get a take home truck which is marked.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: I also hunt the same areas I work. My boss
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: has given me the okay to hunt before and after
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: work out of the state truck. Hunting out of the
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: state truck seems like an all around wind. I am
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: much more able to respond to emergencies after hours when
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: most of them occur, and I have more time to
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: hunt because I don't have to go home and switch trucks.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: Seeing a law enforcement truck parked in the woods may
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: deter illegal activity. Despite all this, I can't help but
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: feel dirty about hunting out of the state truck, since
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: some hunters may think I am targeting them specifically because
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: they are hunting in quote my spot, or I am
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: taking quote their spot. I am very careful to not
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: hunt the same place as I have recently checked other hunters.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: It may also blow my spots out because other hunters
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: often think I know all the best spots.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: What are your thoughts, he says, seeing a law enforcement
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: truck parked in the woods made deter illegal activity. I
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: think it would just deter activity in general. Even of
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: like a law abiding fella. If you were like coming
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: down you saw a law enforcement vehicle a trailhead, you
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: could imagine all sorts of things are like taking place there.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: They're like, body, yeah, I.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: Think I'll just go hunt somewhere else. So I think,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: not just illegal activity, activity in general, folks are going
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: to avoid you.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 4: I think it's kind of the same story of an
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 4: outfitter not hunting in their outfitting concession.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: It's kind of it's.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 4: Kind of double dipping, even though the guy probably has
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 4: pure motives. The guy's probably legit. It really wouldn't do
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 4: any harm, but there's just too many, too many over
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't do it because I feel like it would
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 4: expose me to more scrutiny than I would want.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 4: I just feel like I feel like in his community,
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 4: it'd be hard to justify. I mean, because it's like
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 4: you're having to explain to people, well, it's okay for
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 4: me to use the company truck on my private time
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 4: because that's part of my contract and that may not
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 4: be a part of some I mean, there's just all
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 4: these little fine details. I think it's I don't think
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 4: it's the highest I don't think it's taken.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: The highest road.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 4: But you hate to hate to fault the guy for
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 4: having to go to like a different county to hunt either. Like,
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 4: I think he's a good guy. I don't think he's
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 4: trying to cheat the system. But I don't I think
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 4: it's a it's it's there's a little little drama in.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: There, maybe down on public land.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 4: What you take, Chili, Well, I mean he's on public land, right, No.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 6: I mean, if you if you're of the mindset where
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 6: you don't feel like you have to explain yourself to everyone,
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 6: like if you got the clearance, like whose business? Like
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 6: it's it's not, it's like who am I to go
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 6: up to him and be like, well can you do this?
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 6: You know?
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 6: I think I'd be totally fine with it if I
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 6: was a game warden FWP.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 4: But what if you were hunting then you saw this
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 4: game warden coming out hunting all these spots, I'd.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: Be like, good for him.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean again, like it's not.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 6: It's just one of those things that like I wouldn't
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 6: personally ask questions about it. Yeah, I mean, like I'd
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 6: see him and I'd probably just do see his truck
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 6: and be like, Okay, well he's hunting, so I'm gonna
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 6: go to the next spot. And then but like to
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 6: your point, which you when you capped off everything, you know,
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 6: the only reservation I do have about it, Like if
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 6: it were me, would be like, okay, well, if I'm
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 6: a game war everyone probably thinks I know where the
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 6: game's at, and they probably have a better idea than
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 6: most people where game's at. So I would be a
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 6: little bit conservative about going out where a lot of
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 6: people have access to you, because if that's like my
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 6: honey hoole. I'd be concerned about other people want to
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 6: hunt there, ye, But anything outside of that, I'd say,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 6: go for it.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, personally, mhmm. For the next one, what's Here's what
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: I do. I'd take your regular rig and park it
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: out at the entrance. Just leave it there, drive the
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: take home truck whatever. When you hunt, pull out, park
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: the work rig out of the entrance to the forest,
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: at the office or whatever, hop in your take hop
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: in your regular rig and hunt. You don't need to
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: go all the way home. Leave the regular rig out there.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: You got a rig sitting somewhere anyway. Yeah, if you're
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: going home and you need to go do something, it's
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: not your take home responsibility, park that truck and jump
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: in the other truck. But as far as you hunting, now,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: I'm like, listen, man, I'm off in a whole other area.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: And I know I'm not telling them whether it's right
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: or wrong. I'm telling him how just to make it
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: a non issue.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 4: But then he's still using his own personal gas to
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 4: go drive. When you know that that's the thing. He
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 4: gets a take home truck, it means he can drive
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 4: that truck wherever that's pretty big perk.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, but if you're worried about it, yeah, park a
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: quad runner. His wife is like, drive the state park,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: your can Am park, whatever the hell, park your regular rig,
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: park your whatever, your normal rig, I don't know, park
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: something at that thing. And then when you when you
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: switch the hunt mode, go grab your rig. In terms
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: of hunting where you work, dude, it's like, come on,
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: you can't you know not the It's like, you work there,
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: that's great, it's public land, Go hunt it. Yeah you
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: can't be like, well, I'm not. It's not right for
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: me to hunt around where I work. I mean, come on,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: if you worry about the truck, if you worry about
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: the perceptions of the truck, just leave a different rig
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: out there. Yeah. I haven't been there, so I'd have
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: to go over there and look for him and show
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: them where I think I choose your park. I'm just
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: making the assumption that works right for this one.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: This next one doesn't even seem like a moral question.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: It seems like a legallant read it first, Yeah.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: You're right, he's thinking he's thinking morals when he should
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: be thinking about getting himself in a lot of trouble.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, good.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: Dear meat eater. I have lived in southern Utah for
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: the last few years. I previously lived in Idaho and
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: have a valid Idaho driver's license. I just moved to
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: the Utah side of the Utah Idaho border, and in
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: doing so renewed my combination license in Idaho, using my
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: Idaho driver's license to purchase it as a resident. I
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: also have a current resident combination license in Utah. My
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: question for you is would it be unethical to listen? Buddy,
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: sincerely A concern hunter. Okay, you have on you have
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: on your hands, Just a simple black and white issue
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: of call fishing game. I don't care which state you
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: want to call it in Idaho or Utah and say, hey,
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: how many states can I hunt as a resident in
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: anyone given time and see what they say. The answer
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: you will get is one.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: And states don't mess around to that. It's like tag
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: draw season right now. When you go to log in
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: to apply for a tag somewhere, the first question from
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: every state asks you, like, are you a resident?
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: You swear on your first or child? Yeah, yeah, you
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: got that, And it's like and here's their thing. If
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: you get into the fine print. They spell out what
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: a resident is in very clear detail, and it will
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: be in a level of detail that exceeds that of
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: which it requires to have a driver's license. There is
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: no room if you look at what they mean when
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: they say you're a resident. There is no room for
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: you to even plausibly suggest you're of both states. A
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: driver's being in possession of a driver's license that hasn't
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: been punched or devalidated does not make you a legal
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: resident of a state. It just means that you have
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: a driver's license in your pocket. Mm hmm. It's like
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: emblematic of residency, but that does not make a resident.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: He didn't leave his name.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: Listen, buddy, I'm not mad at you. You did the
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: right thing by asking, but yeah, just be careful. I
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: wouldn't even be walking. I wouldn't if I was you,
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: I would figure out what is what and go back
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: and and and clear it up and give that tag
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: back and clarify that you shouldn't be in possession of it. Yeah,
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: because you don't even want to be holding resident tags
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: from two states. Whether or not you validate him on
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: an animal or not. Thanks everybody.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 10: Getting colder on the water, weather man, since it's gone raining,
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 10: pier up the men.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: Cooda, I'm a trap. My rider never trust his word.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 10: Anyway.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 5: Hit the bast pro shop on my way through town,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 5: Rousters and panthers. It's going down, hamme down that boat rounch.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: Water up to my sin, fish hop biting.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 5: Real man.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: Able work week gets a sin?
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: Where is my live?
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: Begame?
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 5: Locket praying for the wind? The fish shyp bidon.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: Real Amen, showing.
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: This line here for hours.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 5: My realis shit and my rig won't spend. Got the
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 5: Blue Mountains two devours the fish sharp bidon.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 7: Real man.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 5: Ffty five hour work week gets a scent?
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: Where is my.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 5: Live big game?
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: Lorna, keep praying for a wind?
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 3: It's all bod real?
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 5: Many five hour work weeks a sin?
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: Where's my life begain?
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: Lorna, keep praying for a wind? The fist at bat.
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 7: Real?
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 3: Where's abod this?
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: Aboy?
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 10: W's somebody fish allbody.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: Real?
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 10: Amazing a song