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Mortgage King to Prison - Jason Rauschelbach · Nightmare Success In and Out

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What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
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Hi. I'm Brent Cassidy.
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Welcome to the nightmare success.
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And Now podcast where we explore, how to overcome your
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fears. And Nightmares is set yourself
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free. We're going to be exploring this
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topic with guys that was in Leavenworth with and others who
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survived their own nightmare. These stories can be inspiring.
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Sometimes sad, there's some humor but hopefully you can come
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away with a nugget of something that will help you knock down
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some of the prisons you've built up.
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In your own mind. My guest today is Jason
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rauschenbach, good morning. He was a CEO of the national
0:42
company. The mortgage store.
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Some of you may have remembered that heard about that company.
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Did a lot of advertising, he's good friend of mine.
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So Jason, welcome. Good morning, Brandt so Thank
1:00
you. That's the live audience.
1:02
We have, I've been really itching to use that button.
1:05
You gotta get set up here. Thanks, this is better at it
1:08
than sitting on the wall. The cinder block wall with the
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plastic chairs. This is a lot better.
1:14
I have a feeling, I might get to hold a remote control, big deal.
1:21
Yeah, big deal to have seniority, the big deal.
1:24
So Jason, you know, the shows about dealing with your, you
1:29
know, your worst fear becomes your reality and both you and I
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have had a lot of ups and downs and we both had the opportunity
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to build. National companies take me back
1:44
a little bit. What was Jason what was Jason
1:48
doing? As a teenager and your life at
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that time, you know? As a teen, I was living a pretty
1:55
typical kind of semi rural high schooler lifestyle and
2:01
Wentzville Missouri and played tennis, and you're pretty good
2:06
at tennis. I'm a pretty good tennis player.
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We played some tennis, you do that locally and and on indoor
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egg and the league there at Leavenworth, are we had tennis
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tennis, very interesting, tennis court, cannot bring your own,
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tennis racquet, I thought that you could, but you cannot go do
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not bring your own tennis racquet. and so anyway, that was
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my, you know, when to Wentzville high school and was a pretty
2:28
good student National Honor, Society type goal-setting kid,
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and And you know from there went on to Mizzou and so Midwestern
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boy, Brian Western Boy made good.
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So tell me because you know not everybody builds a company that
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you take big and you go National what what would walk me through
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what happened? How did you get to that point?
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Where you said hey I've got an idea, I think it work and then
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how did you go about doing that? Well, I have a background in
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sales and I'm probably just a personality for sales and got my
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Series 7 as a young kid at Mizzou.
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I left Mizzou and got my Series. 7 worked for stifel Nicolaus and
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cold called guy here in town named ravenson and eventually
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ended up working for a 99. And I that's right, Uncle Ray
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and I'm pretty good at treating sales as a process so a good
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trainer and it L I think so. I thought well that's it he's
3:36
got a good idea here and I would have to admit that I modeled
3:43
after after what we were doing there and came across a company
3:50
that had a good name and decided to partner with the mom-and-pop,
3:57
owners of that shop because the platform was open, I said, okay,
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let's let's say we can blow this up and do it quickly.
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Lee scale scale quickly. So well, you bring up something
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I think is an important point when you're trying to build or
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both for business in life, is to find somebody that's doing it
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right or getting it, right? And you try to model and take a
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piece of that. So you know what?
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That would work for me. I'm going to put that in my
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business. I'm going to make it that little
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bit more custom to what I'm doing.
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But it don't you think that sometimes it's just like hum.
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In yourself and and saying, you know, I'm looking for advice and
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I'm looking for things that are working, people getting it
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right. And then you take that advice
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and you put it into what what you want to make work.
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I think if you're going to say I'm going to make everything up
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from scratch. I'm not going to build on the
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shoulders of you know better people smarter people try to
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hire and surround myself with smarter people than you're you
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know you're going to have a tough row to hoe.
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It's hard to invent everything. Right right.
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There is nothing new. Yeah.
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So you build a company and it becomes successful.
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I'm sure you're proud of what you had built.
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Yes. Yes.
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We were recognized as one of the Inc. 500 fastest growing
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companies in our Niche for multiple years in a row and you
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know, we took a mom and pop shop, literally from Wentzville
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Missouri and built a brand built a All built on advertising and
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marketing machine and sales, training and hiring machine.
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And okay, let's start, let's start marching where is this
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country growing? How can we, how can we, you
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know, how many states did you get into as it all grew?
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I think we had seven branches and in five states.
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Yeah, that's that's great. So when did you start feeling
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the heat that like, oh my God, this is something going on in
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it. Doesn't feel good from a
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business perspective. 2008. And I would, I would say, you
6:18
know, we all look backwards and I'm sure we'll have
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conversations on. What did you what did you, you
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know, what did you first see and then you didn't do something,
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are you didn't realize really what was going on and I had
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feedback from them. Anders, we had a credit line
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with our warehouse lender, 10 million dollar, Warehouse line,
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with relatively small institution in Atlanta, Georgia
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who started telling us. All right.
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Well, you can't, we're not going to fund any more loans, with
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IndyMac, for example, and, you know, I will tell you I was also
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31 32, you know, I was in my early 30s and thought I was a
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lot smarter than I probably was, and Invincible Invincible.
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Of course, I was bulletproof and invisible in addition to
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Invincible at that point, you know, based on nothing but
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success having been achieved, Brent, you know, nothing I could
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do no wrong and so anyway, in 2008, you know, outside it would
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be something like that and I'd be questioning.
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Why would we not? Not under right for IndyMac.
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That's this is ridiculous. And I probably at the time
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because it might have been a little of my personality would
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have been, you know, pushing backers or you know trying to
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Strong arm not changing my model to my, you know, someone I
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looked at as a vendor and I should have looked at them as an
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advisor, right? So that's there's there's one
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mistake and through 2008, I really after having expanded,
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and then seeing slowdowns, for example, in our Market in
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Orlando and Las Vegas and like, well how can these passe, you
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know, how can things be? Slower, you know, and and then
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okay IndyMac goes out of business.
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I can remember in the spring of 2008, you know, going on a trip
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to the Kentucky Derby and for the first time probably and
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ever, I guess thinking, I don't know if I should be going on a
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trip start. Now, I don't feel good.
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This is supposed to be my spring trip, you know where I'm
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supposed to be, starting to feel good on all summer.
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His coming. And, yeah, and I was not, I was
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not feeling good in the spring of 2008, which, you know, turned
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out in our business, you know? I wish I would have paid more
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attention, or been more intuitive your gut is, right?
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I mean, there's a million one-liners that I've got the
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benefit of now, having Look, Look Backwards, Do you did you
9:12
ever get the knock on the door? That said hey we're
9:16
investigating you or from an FBI agent?
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Well, we knew immediately, right?
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So I got a call from our CFO who said, okay, one of our accounts
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is closed, they have closed one of our accounts.
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And what had been going on is, you know, essentially Did you
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know to keep them Company open or whatever?
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However, you want to characterize it?
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We're riding checks between our accounts and ultimately just
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digging up a big hole and my instinct was well, let's go
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into, I'm going to fix this mode because that's what I do.
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I'm going to fix everything going on around here.
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We're going to, we're going to you know minimize or close this
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branch and Las Vegas. We're going to stop you know
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paying advertising bills over here.
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We got to put the dirt Dirt in the hole, stop the bleeding.
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And what I, you know, what I should have done, right?
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Then is just okay, this is very, very serious.
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This is letter of the law, get an attorney and, you know, turns
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you enough to win and, you know, whistle blow on yourself
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essentially. And I didn't really figure out
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how to do that and had had misplaced confidence in my own
10:38
abilities to To fix a problem that had already spiraled out of
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control. Well, I think that is the other
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part of it that People may not understand is how fast those
10:50
things happen and and when you're dealing with a large
10:53
company that it all comes at. You really fast, you know, in
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our situation we had 22 States and the regulatory world of each
11:04
regulatory Department. In each state coming at us
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request and we didn't have enough hours in the day to
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respond to it and it felt like you were you would literally
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slip down. The abyss to being caved in and
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it was claustrophobic. So it and that happens really
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fast to in your thinking. As you were saying, Jason,
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you're thinking I'm going to fix this.
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I got this. I, but there's not as you're
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doing it. You've got everything, you're
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being shot in the front, the back sideways, and, and you feel
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like, no, no, I've got this. I've got this is, I'm going to
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save everything and make everything work.
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Yeah, watch me. Watch me surf through this, but
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you're surfing the Sands of an hourglass.
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And About to be squeezed. Exactly.
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And it does happen fast. Yeah, if you can see it from
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outside which you can't at the time but it's yeah it's a
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waterfall effect of this regulator you know.
12:00
And I'm sure we'll talk about after prison too because it's
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not much different. Your probation officer is in
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communication with the IRS. Hey you you know the pressure
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and the pressure around the failure part of the business at
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the time is You know, it's just overwhelming.
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And this is even before the threat of litigation, this is
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just watching a business where I have 200 people working here.
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And, you know, I did a billion dollars worth of origination
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last year and I, you can't even believe that it's you're
12:35
actually happening and you're living through this and all of a
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sudden, all of your attention is your biggest bill is legal fees
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then and the Paperwork that only accept it only gets bigger.
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You have to worry about. You got 200 lifestyle.
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Yeah, you've got 200 people on payroll.
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No, it's that always stays, you know, to me that that is one of
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the things that always stayed with me was is that anything in
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any meeting? I was going to, it was in the
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back of my mind. I've got I've got 400 people
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here that I've got to their lives are among back.
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I got it. I got to get got to get this
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meeting, right? I got to save this.
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This Right. Have to clear payroll.
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Yeah, that was always. I mean that keep you up at night
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and first thing you wake up in the morning last thing you think
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at night now you sweat you lose weight.
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You don't eat drink too much. You drink too much so make other
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bad decisions or bad decisions. So Jason, I I know that you
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know, going through all that you finally come to this point where
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you're looking at going to trial or plane and for those listening
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to this just to throw out a number that a lot of people
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don't know 97% of the people that are indicted plea.
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So we have a conviction rate in the United States of 97%.
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And of course, both you. And I are part of that 97
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percent. What was the night before the
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night before you plead? What was that?
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Like when you finally said, you know what, it was the best night
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of sleep, I had had for a year and a half and we'll get back
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into it, but after my company failed, I went on actually went
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back to to work in financial services and was an investment
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banker with a small firm in Clayton.
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Just living my life for years, including getting a semi
14:53
congratulatory type call from my attorney.
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At one point saying, yeah, I think your deal your hey you're
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deals all over. There's no more attention.
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You you're not worthy of attention and a, oh, that's
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great. You know, we're going to move on
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and then I can remember where I was, who I was pitching where I
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was driving back from when I got the call.
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All out of the blue which you know, when you see the number
15:22
pop up owed, you know, maybe I don't want to give this guy's
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name right now is still a good friend of mine, actually, very
15:29
good counsel and a good friend. But why is he calling?
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You know, you're not supposed to be called weren't we don't have
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anything to talk about I thought and that's when he told me.
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Oh no, you're back. You're all back up on the desk.
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And here we go. You come in, here we go.
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Need you to come on in. So how long would?
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How long was all that? We did you come on in?
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Bring a check, bring a check head because we're going to be
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paying me alive, the first check?
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Yeah. How long did all that?
15:57
Last Jason from the time that you had started and feeling that
16:03
the company in spiral and then the federal deal, how long, how
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long did you deal with it? Okay, so the company, you know,
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like we said, it went down fast and not even my own Internal
16:17
things that our company that whole industry.
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It just failed. Our biggest was an 8 2008.
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So everybody didn't remember Lehman Brothers, bear Stearns.
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He's hundred-year-old companies that were my counterparties are
16:29
closing and use like what, that's all the possible, bear
16:33
start. Okay.
16:34
Anyway, so the business. It failed, crashed burned, a
16:39
couple of successors, tried to make a mark, with the brand or
16:43
whatever, but you can't do anything.
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Thing with a brand and an industry that is dead.
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We Were A subprime lender and that industry was dead.
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There wasn't a borrower or a buyer.
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So done. We're done timing.
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Timing is everything. And like I said, I just okay.
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I'm going to pick myself back up and let's go.
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Let's go sell something else. Let's do something else.
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We have got to go live another life.
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Now you really can't because you've turned Turned in a
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license to the state of Missouri.
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Okay, we don't go get your insurance license after your
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company has turned in their lenders license.
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Not it right? Is the road.
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Yeah, so you're already, but you're still try it.
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You're still trying. Yeah.
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I mean, I'm still trying and and You know, that's one of the
17:36
things Jason. I want to explore too because,
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you know, you know, life life gets tough before you go in, you
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know, obviously it's tough when you're in and it's really tough
17:49
when you get out. So you know, the idea that you
17:53
can just kind of sit and watch and wait, you have to keep
17:58
stepping in to try to figure out.
18:00
And at the time you did that, you didn't have much to work
18:02
with. You were just saying Hey, I
18:04
don't have my company now. No one man.
18:06
One man show. Yeah have mouth will travel?
18:09
Yeah sales and marketing. Yeah.
18:11
Yeah. So so the company failed in
18:14
2008. I guess that's the story on for
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2008 to 2012. You know, I reinvent my career
18:22
and make a new career for myself and then get the call from my
18:27
attorney. I know you're still on the desk.
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Okay, so now 2012 that In 2012, and now I'm on a parallel path.
18:38
Keeping the secret, right? I'm going into my office in
18:41
Clayton, which is convenient, because my attorneys also
18:44
located in Clayton's is very good because we're going to be
18:47
working a lot together. Walking distance, walking
18:50
distance and no one at my office knows I can't you know of course
18:55
I'm doing deals. Yeah I closed a deal.
18:58
The day before I went into I collected a check the day before
19:02
I went into playing. It was funny that the FED said,
19:05
yeah, we're good. We will extend this for you to
19:08
do your your deal, okay? You know, because it is also a
19:14
funny story. How cordial everyone is.
19:16
And we're all wearing suits, but these guys are putting you in
19:18
prison in a minute. Yeah.
19:19
So you know, so you so you find out.
19:24
So you go in and you play as we all know, the letter shows up in
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the mail and tells you where you're going to be assigned to
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It's just a very matter-of-fact letter.
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It says Leavenworth. What's your thoughts about that?
19:38
I'd heard of that one. I heard of that one.
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Yeah. I didn't hear a lot good.
19:42
Okay. So, yeah, you do, you, you do
19:45
plea. And I'm, I'm sure we'll get back
19:47
to it but your 97 percent conviction rate, this is how it
19:50
works, is you get to plead guilty to one count of
19:52
conspiracy knowing that the prosecutor will support your
19:58
attorneys. Suggestion of can we give this
20:01
person House arrest, probation up to two years incarceration
20:06
maximum so they reach that agreement before you walk in
20:11
because the alternative is without your pleading, to one
20:15
count of conspiracy. We're going to charge you with
20:18
40 counts of everything, variety of things that were just going
20:23
to throw against the wall and we're going to go for, you know,
20:26
there's 20 years on each count, so you're looking at 400 to 500
20:31
years. If potentially, yeah, if
20:34
convicted on each count, I think mine was, it was mail fraud wire
20:40
fraud, because anything once you're deemed to be out of Right
20:44
company than everything, you made.
20:45
Everything everywhere, have everything everything you ever
20:48
buys money laundering and so all those added up to like 900
20:52
years. So that was a lot to look at.
20:55
Especially there's nothing quite like looking at your name on a
20:58
sheet of paper versus the United States of America underneath
21:02
Yeah. Underneath the yeah it's kind of
21:04
intimidating. So one-sided it is and it's when
21:08
you get to that end and you plea, I think you are.
21:11
So beer league, softball team is okay.
21:14
You guys are playing the Dodgers tomorrow because it's a good
21:19
analogy. Jason.
21:22
Okay, so here's the deal, you had to Leavenworth.
21:27
You voluntarily surrendered, right?
21:29
Yeah, I did. Okay I did I did.
21:32
Yeah, that's a weird thing. It was a really weird thing, my
21:35
dad drove me. Yeah, it was a Tuesday, me too,
21:39
and when I got there, you know, Mac, remember Mac, okay?
21:46
So you go to Leavenworth and the you see the big Leavenworth, you
21:50
don't seem to we ended up in a camp. 1879, looks like
21:54
Shawshank, yeah. Looks like Shawshank and and
21:57
there's a little house up front like a brick, you know, brick.
22:02
Answer, whatever you want to call it, and my dad and I went
22:06
in there. And this gentleman Mac was
22:09
getting ready to ask us about whether we were taking the tour
22:13
and I extended my hand and said, no, I'm out.
22:17
So I'm surrendering today might have said I'm checking in,
22:20
right? But there's you don't shake
22:23
hands. There's no there is no
22:25
handshake. That was it you leave your dad
22:27
in the parking lot. After you find out, you're not
22:30
bringing your gym bag in in. You don't need your shoes or
22:33
your tennis don't need any care. You don't need anything because
22:36
they're going to take all of it. Anyway, they are taking
22:38
everything. Yeah, you're gonna get
22:39
everything there. So so your mind you don't have
22:43
shoes when you get in there. Well, and and you know, when you
22:48
went in because you go into the big Penitentiary, that's where
22:52
you start. So, the processing.
22:53
Don't you think your first thought is?
22:57
I wonder if they know I'm not supposed to be in this one.
22:59
Yeah, you're really concerned. You definitely are our.
23:06
First of all, it's a bunker and it's it's not none of these
23:10
areas that you're walking through our big areas, you're
23:13
not in an auditorium. You're going from one small,
23:17
Corridor into another small Corridor, and you're you're
23:20
being processed. Don't you feel so much?
23:23
A Dalek as you walking through there, you can almost feel your
23:25
freedom shedding like off your skin.
23:27
You like your each step you take through this gate and through
23:30
this little gate, and then They take it's more than you thought
23:33
it was going to be exactly. Yeah, yeah.
23:36
You'd asked, I know that can't remember if I answered, but you
23:38
said that, how did you sleep the night before you plead guilty?
23:42
And I slept great, you know, and I hear these stories about
23:44
fugitives on the run and the oh, finally.
23:46
I'm caught. So I slept great.
23:50
That neither the night before prison.
23:52
The night before prison, you do not sleep great.
23:54
That is not a good one. That's not a good one.
23:56
We drove from st. Louis into the Kansas City area
24:00
and stayed at a nice hotel. Went to a nice steak house is
24:03
how we prepped for the next morning, the 10 a.m. drop for
24:07
the next morning. Check in the check in.
24:09
Yeah, and I remember this too. Is it?
24:13
Julie, I went up there with my brother and my mom and we had
24:17
dinner down on the Plaza and then we took off and went back
24:20
over to Leavenworth to look. Oh, you look around to look at
24:24
it from from the outside and it was kind of dark.
24:27
And you can see people walking around, you can still actually
24:29
see people walk in the fence and my thought was, I didn't say
24:34
this to Julie, but it my thought was is my God.
24:37
I'm going to be in there tomorrow.
24:39
I'm going to be inside there inside that fence inside that
24:43
small building. That looks like a rundown school
24:45
house and in a bunk bed and that place maybe.
24:49
And I'm Punk, that who know who knows sign whatever you're going
24:52
to be in. Okay so they walk you and Jason
24:56
to walk me through your first day okay I'm trying to remember
24:59
they walk you in I think that was the first place that I was
25:07
actually fingerprinted so I was never arrested handcuffed
25:11
fingerprinted at any point by the Marshals or the prosecutor's
25:15
office at any point in my journey or prosecution until I
25:19
got to level R so I was handcuffed.
25:23
Made an offer. What do you want to do with your
25:26
street clothes? Do you want to donate?
25:28
These there was a weird question, didn't you?
25:31
After you've come in, you know, I knew that one thing I want to
25:34
do is not that nice code. I had I was going to leave that
25:37
in the car. Yeah, then wanted to have that.
25:39
Yeah. I walked in knowing I might not
25:42
see these clothes again. Yes.
25:44
Yes, I went with the Donate. You can donate these clothes and
25:47
then don't remember that kind of looked like a dead pile, you
25:50
know, like there's this close. Yes.
25:52
Yes. And and then they throw you some
25:55
like a t-shirt? Well no they first strip you
25:57
down the first you're naked. Right.
25:59
Let's then they criticize you. Yeah.
26:02
You know that sets you up for psychological success.
26:05
On their end of. Let's get this guy's
26:07
straightened out and then they bring you some clothes that are
26:12
not new. These are not new blows, these
26:17
aren't the good clothes that anyone wanted, right?
26:19
So this is just get a little blue shoes.
26:22
Got the little slippers. So the shoes are one of the
26:25
first issues when you get in there and you need shower shoes.
26:28
All my as you can imagine. So anyway, I'm in there, getting
26:34
process, getting close a nurse, you meet with a health care.
26:39
I don't know if I asked her. I think that's just a part of
26:41
the thing. You're going to meet with
26:43
someone and go over. What are your health conditions?
26:46
I'm glad I did that. I'm sure.
26:47
We'll talk more. Yeah, we need to talk about
26:49
that. Yeah.
26:50
What happened? When you met with the nurse?
26:52
Zeus. Well, I let them know that you
26:58
know which which was probably a condition that many people are
27:06
about to get incarcerated. They develop alcoholism.
27:11
Yeah and I let her know that I have been drinking heavily since
27:15
my, you know, throughout the stress of the of the proceedings
27:21
and And up until my incarceration.
27:26
And, you know a lot and her concern is, you're going to have
27:33
delivery, you know, you're going to have alcohol withdrawal and I
27:35
agree. Definitely.
27:36
I'm going to have alcohol withdrawal.
27:38
That's pretty much what I'm warning you about is I'm going
27:40
to have alcohol withdrawal. When did you last drink?
27:43
And you know, the answer was yesterday and how many in the
27:47
answer was, you know, anyone t, as I had been drinking So they
27:54
prescribed me, I guess a heavy vitamin B, you know, the
28:00
prescribe me, a number of combination of things you just.
28:03
So now I'm in the medical system to.
28:06
So I you get your name called, you're going to take your pill
28:09
in the morning. You're going to get your pill or
28:12
shot in the afternoon and this was my treatment.
28:18
It's actually the only treatment that I had actually received
28:21
for. Ilysm in my life, for this
28:24
condition. Was the treatment that I
28:26
received at Leavenworth? When I?
28:28
Yeah. And I'm glad that they
28:29
diagnosed. I'm so glad that we had that
28:31
conversation. Yeah.
28:33
So you how long, how long did they keep you in the basement of
28:36
the big Penitentiary, at Leavenworth.
28:38
When he checked in that day, for about five hours.
28:44
Yeah. So from the morning from 10:00
28:47
prior to, I guess I got out around 3:00 or 4:00 I got a
28:52
meal. Can't remember exactly what I
28:56
was doing for shoes. I think you and James Clark
29:00
brought me shoes and a pair of shorts either that day or the
29:03
next I do. Think we told you.
29:05
I was yeah, somebody came, which is kind of funny.
29:09
Someone is usually, they know you're coming.
29:11
I don't know. It's a little weird that you're
29:13
there are people from your hometown in your present,
29:15
wherever you go, which is odd. Yes.
29:19
Aha. So when you get finally taken,
29:22
You know, okay, they come and get you in your cell and they
29:25
say you were going to take you down to the camp.
29:27
Yes, that's good news. That's that's good news.
29:29
It's are going to take you down to the camp because at this
29:31
point you're thinking, I sure hope they think turns out.
29:35
It's good news. Yeah.
29:36
But you're the time. You're still thinking for those
29:39
four hours or five hours. I wonder where they're going to
29:42
take me next. What's next?
29:43
Did you first notice that you don't get any information.
29:46
The first thing is you walk in is for the rest of your time at
29:49
Leavenworth, you know? Nothing.
29:51
No you Don't talk. You don't talk and ask about
29:54
anything, you do nothing. They're not going to tell you
29:56
anything. You're going to sit there until
29:57
they opened the that sliding door and let you out and you get
30:02
into a car and they take you down to the camp.
30:04
So You walking, you don't have anybody else.
30:07
You're walking in with, right? It's just, you know, I walked in
30:11
just a van van ride exam ride and the driver of the van is
30:16
another prisoner turns out. I didn't I didn't know at the
30:19
time but everybody driving around?
30:21
Yeah. Cruisin around the inmates run
30:24
the place? Yes.
30:24
That is a do. Everything that is correct.
30:26
Yeah, that's the one thing that you find out when you go to
30:28
prison is I didn't realize that they mates make the food, the
30:32
inmates, cut the grass, the in everything, do the HV Is no hva.
30:37
See now there's no air conditioning so you don't have
30:39
to worry about that or have to worry about where they heat the
30:43
inmates. Do everything, including I mean,
30:45
there's even a for-profit business, a recycling company,
30:50
the inmates, all worried do that, too, they work there with
30:53
pride. The one thing that the, the the
30:55
inmates don't do is they don't do count, the that is done by
31:00
the correctional officer and that was what's required for you
31:04
for count is to stand there. Right.
31:06
Yes, you stay. Yeah.
31:08
And so I got in was driven down in a van and you know you get
31:15
processed into okay? You're going to walk through
31:18
this vestibule, whatever you would like to call it before you
31:23
go through a court. Yeah, it wasn't really that
31:25
nice. You're going to walk into this
31:26
little lobby area and then we're going to take you in and you're
31:30
going to be at camp and you're handed some clothes.
31:33
Okay, here's where you're going to go live here on Google.
31:36
Basement. No, I was up.
31:39
I mean, did you go get your clothes in the back?
31:40
Yeah, I went and got my clothes and the basement.
31:42
That's a little scattered. You know.
31:45
There's a guy walking you to the basement already.
31:48
See me. Yeah.
31:49
What's sketchy? Big?
31:51
Big yeah. Yeah.
31:54
Chain link fence, big scary guy down there.
31:56
Turns out to be the nicest guy. Yeah and anyway, he's like yeah.
32:00
Okay. You got some used clothes.
32:01
Now don't have shower shoes. You need to buy those Those so
32:06
the luckily there is a little Mall, you know, as commissary
32:09
there. So day one was.
32:12
Yeah, where am I sleeping? This is the one of my eating of
32:17
down through. Yes, you did.
32:19
I think I got there just in time not to eat.
32:21
Actually, I think that's what happened.
32:23
Yeah, 5:00 mail, I missed. And then and then some point,
32:28
you know, I'm walking around. I'm walking just killing time
32:32
and then you, okay, you're all going to bed.
32:35
You're all going to bed. Now, right?
32:37
And all of the lights are going off in your all you approached
32:40
by anybody at this time, or are you just walking around on your
32:43
own? Know, I was walking around on my
32:45
own wearing these army boots that they give you what?
32:48
You're not very comfortable. No, I wasn't approached by
32:53
anybody and really as I recollect it might have been you
32:56
and James the first day or might have been the second day.
32:59
I can't remember. But those are the you to reached
33:02
out when I went into my dormitory.
33:06
Lori. There is a nice young guy there
33:07
named Teri. Okay, you need some shower, I'm
33:10
going to give you some flip-flops and I'm going to give
33:12
you a bowl because you need your own Bowl for the microwave.
33:15
The food culture in prison is bigger than you would think.
33:19
You don't just go to the cafeteria and there's your tray
33:21
and you're done with a know. It's like food is like crack
33:24
cocaine and and the food's a big deal.
33:26
Yeah foods. And it's not variations on ways
33:29
to make things that are not the way.
33:31
I remember. You have very good at making
33:33
pizzas Heats and in the Microwave pizzas in a microwave
33:38
out of tortillas and whatever whatever.
33:43
You know, the commissary is funded by Enterprise Rent-A-Car.
33:47
If there are they sponsor, we will make them one, okay?
33:50
So the only be fair that's that's the prison industrial
33:53
complex is brought to you by the same people.
33:55
You get your Miata from. Yeah.
33:57
And so you have sausage cheese, whatever tomato sauce, excuse
34:05
me. Me and and yeah, pizzas are a
34:07
big thing, huge Burgers Things, fall off the truck around the
34:12
cafeteria, there's a huge food industry.
34:16
There's a lot of present fall off the truck between the Food
34:20
Warehouse to unicore to the dog Garden things are falling off
34:25
all over. Brother is there's a lot of food
34:28
that falls off and, and they and that food that falls off, they
34:32
make good out of that. You know, I remember one night
34:36
We were member big Watson. He was - yes.
34:40
Oh yes. Oh, he was a he liked to cook.
34:42
Yes, one night. I came in.
34:44
I remember I Clark and I just got done playing basketball and
34:49
we came upstairs and Watson's got the whole sink area all with
34:55
flour. He's doing chicken and he's
34:57
dropping them into a trash can was Stingers that are making
35:00
yes, the connect explain the Stinger.
35:03
Those are made of it. Unicorn right.
35:06
Yeah. So they can get that and those
35:08
make the oil hot so that fries the chicken.
35:12
That's a stripped off cord from something, right?
35:14
Is that it? And here's the thing I was
35:15
thinking to is that so he's doing that.
35:18
He's running a fryer, he's running a fries in a trash can.
35:21
And then at the other side, you've got bass.
35:24
I don't know if you remember bass, but he's shaving his whole
35:26
body. All three showers are on on cold
35:29
because Watson's trying to keep the Steam down from the chicken
35:35
and then you I've got like 10 guys smoking in the corner right
35:39
over by the urinals and the toilets.
35:41
And I'm like, you know, you can't make this.
35:44
It was like the scene in Star Wars at that Cantina, just a
35:48
Friday night before the movies, before the movies.
35:52
So Tom, that's everywhere in prison like it is at
35:59
Leavenworth. Well, first of all the movies,
36:02
all right, I got in trouble for this.
36:04
I got My colleagues and present were not happy because the
36:09
movies actually come out. I don't know how but they come
36:12
out before they're at the theater.
36:15
So what was the sniper movie? It was a good one where they got
36:22
no Army. Seal type, whatever in Texas.
36:26
He's from Texas. There were in Afghanistan or
36:28
something. So we get this movie before it
36:30
is out in theaters and I'm dumb enough to, you know, I'm telling
36:34
my dad on our lock phone call. Oh yeah.
36:36
This is he's that's not even out.
36:38
Oh yeah I don't know how have final how they do it, but yeah,
36:42
they're pirating, someone's got internet, access some prisoner.
36:46
And they some prisoner who is got one of the key jobs of being
36:52
an administrators assistant. Those are the people that they
36:55
have Excel so they can print out, you know, and they
36:58
documents they have the internet and yeah but here's the deal.
37:01
They they read your email so you have to correct you Have to type
37:06
55 cents a minute, pretty fast. But that is how they found out
37:12
about that. They read your email to your
37:15
dad. Oh, that's right.
37:16
Yeah, the the CEO and then they leaked it.
37:19
Yeah. So the corrections officer.
37:20
That's correct. I forgot, I'm glad you prompted
37:23
me. So the co drags me in and says,
37:25
why are you why are you saying this?
37:28
You know, it's didn't denied, you know, deny deny deny.
37:32
And then in addition, you know. So in addition to his giving me
37:35
some shit, It, he tells the other prison population.
37:38
Just in case there's some prison Justice that needs to be meted
37:42
out to me. And Jason, you probably remember
37:44
this and that movie they were up on that Mountaintop and he was
37:48
good to take that guy out and they said if you do that man,
37:50
you're going to end up at Leavenworth and we're all that
37:52
was fun. They were all sitting there.
37:53
Like oh yeah right that was funny.
37:56
We are actually in love with and I think Dwayne the Rock.
37:58
I think there was another movie with a Leavenworth reference.
38:01
It's always funny when you're at Leavenworth and you get a
38:04
Leavenworth. Shoutout.
38:06
And you're on your plastic chair and you're in a, no air
38:09
conditioning and watching your movie.
38:11
Just sweating. Yeah.
38:13
And your seat where you sissy. That's your seat.
38:15
Tell me about that. Jason, what's the deal with the
38:17
seat deal? Like, why does everybody have
38:19
their own, can you bring your own chair for one, you go to the
38:22
auditorium and you bring your own chair.
38:25
Are you seeing things when you walk in, or there's people
38:27
selling Goods before the movies? Yes.
38:29
So this is the stamp economy books of stamps stent.
38:34
Numbers individual. Amps to stamps General.
38:37
Get you a lot snack. You know.
38:39
Get your soda brownies Pizza burritos, Ruidoso whatever ice
38:47
cream. That's right.
38:49
Yeah, I think it was Daniel Jackson made ice.
38:52
I don't know how that was going on.
38:53
Even sure. I know how that was going on
38:55
anyway. So yeah, you have got to you
38:59
don't just pull your chair down. I always felt bad.
39:03
You gotta figure sick right away, impressed.
39:05
Fine, you're fine. You're people before you make a
39:09
mistake but now yeah, that's your seat.
39:12
That's your seat forever from now on.
39:14
That's your seat and that's where you said somebody leaves.
39:17
And you like that area better and now you're seeing, there is
39:20
some seniority. I didn't get the opportunities
39:22
for sure. Your log left like you did in
39:24
many cases but there's so much pride in that but you know I
39:28
just really appreciate you and Jim letting me hang ride, your
39:31
coattails, you know that good seat.
39:33
We actually had a pretty good area.
39:35
So we had Add some good seating in the movie theater and in the
39:38
cafeteria every TV night. So TV night, we all, they called
39:44
it. The white wall that it was a
39:45
white center block wall and one of the reasons they called it
39:49
that. Yes, one of the reasons the
39:51
other was is there were these goofy white collar, guys?
39:54
Right? And we could we sit with our
39:59
plastic chairs on there and everybody else had their own
40:01
places every every night. But we could actually see all
40:04
four TVs, you can. Hispanic TV, the black TV, the
40:08
redneck TV and the white TV. So it was, you could get it all.
40:12
Yeah, you got it. All you got, we all listened
40:14
through By Radio phone exact laws were so everyone's got
40:18
headphones. Yeah.
40:20
Well that was smart of all the things that they're doing in the
40:22
prison's really? They are corrected.
40:24
I don't want to listen to someone else's music just like I
40:27
don't want to listen to a speaker phone conversation today
40:31
that I'm not a party to, so yeah.
40:33
Well you're all on headphones and you dial into To which TV
40:36
you want to watch and so let's go back.
40:41
That's not selected by. Yeah, no and you can't go up and
40:45
change the station because that actually will prompt a fight.
40:48
Yes, you definitely done manually.
40:51
No not now, you know, gonna be rolling right?
40:54
That that is what you never. I never saw it.
40:56
I never saw a fight. A couple might have occurred
41:00
that I'm aware of, but heard about it.
41:03
Yeah. So I want to roll back to Some
41:06
because you kind of set me up to ask you this.
41:08
So you you got diagnosed with prescription drugs, for your
41:15
drinking before you came in. And there's so happened to be a
41:19
program and the federal system and it's about the only program
41:23
that you can get time off. It's called rdap.
41:26
I think it's residential drug awareness awareness.
41:31
So, anyway, they're whatever our depth.
41:33
The acronym is for you. Get a year off.
41:36
If you can get, if you can get into the program and dr.
41:39
Wells allows you into that program.
41:42
You actually get a year off if you complete.
41:44
The nine months, correct. You were not approved for that
41:48
program before you came in. That is right.
41:51
I you know, to be approved for rdap, you probably should be had
41:56
to his sons report. Yeah, you had it had to be in
41:58
your pre-sentence report and you probably already needed to be
42:02
being medicated and being counseled for That issue and I
42:08
was not I did. So what you did do though was
42:13
get a prescribed drug diagnosed by the buyer, lighter girl, of
42:17
presence, and then that allows you to go in and talk to dr.
42:21
Wells. About the fact that they messed
42:23
up, missed you, because you're already prescribed.
42:26
Well, yes. So I had applied and I think Ben
42:30
may be turned down for the first round of rdap and had the
42:34
benefit. At that, time of a letter that
42:38
had been written by a family doctor, physician recommending
42:43
based on, you know, you know what he understood.
42:46
Having not seen me, personally, but conversing with, with me on
42:51
the phone, he wrote a nice letter to try to get me into the
42:56
addiction treatment program. And that was a failure because
43:00
there was no actual treatment that I had received in advance.
43:04
So, after being turned down, I went In and, you know, I made an
43:07
appointment with dr. Wells and to discuss.
43:12
Okay, how? Why was I turned down and maybe
43:16
how we could make this work? It you know and at the time, I
43:21
didn't really appreciate. Does he want me in here?
43:23
Or does he not want me in here? Or do they not care?
43:26
Or, you know, I don't know. But and he just basically said
43:29
that letters not going to do it and you're having been pulled
43:34
over once. For a DUI that was later
43:37
dismissed nine years ago also doesn't it.
43:40
You have to have something here in the preceding 12 months
43:42
whatever. And I said well you know when I
43:45
came here you guys treated me. So I he's and he wasn't aware of
43:52
that and said and wanted the details.
43:54
And I said, yeah, I came in like told them hey, I'm in a serious
43:58
Drinker for a long time. I'm going to have serious
44:01
withdrawals and they gave me, you know, this shot and this
44:05
Sublingual whatever. And he said, oh, well, let me
44:08
see if we can work with that and he called back up to the big
44:11
house and verified and verified those prescriptions.
44:16
The seven days of treatment or nine days of treatment that I
44:19
received and Bam, you're in your into the our tap program and
44:23
you're going to have nine months of intensive, rdap retro, you
44:29
know our inspection. I don't know what treatment One
44:34
year off, one year off. So my drive, my 24 month
44:38
sentence was dropped to a 12-month sentence and then, you
44:43
know, I didn't have you very long, Jason, I know, you know,
44:46
but let me ask you this because when I say short and sweet, it's
44:50
it was sweet, how short it was for me.
44:52
I mean I just barely got to know you.
44:54
No. No, that's not really true.
44:56
You see somebody every day. That is one of the strange
44:58
things about but I was going to ask you when somebody leaves.
45:02
I was just kidding. I might as well finish what?
45:03
To say it is strange because there's nothing like prison
45:07
where you if you're somebody's a friend of yours, you see them
45:10
every day. They're part of your routine.
45:12
You do things with them and you can't leave.
45:14
So it's not like, hey, I'll see you tomorrow.
45:16
No, I'm going to see you a lot, right?
45:19
They passing by and and we'll probably see each other out.
45:24
Yeah that's not going to Rock Bridge know.
45:26
So it's not like you run into people every once in a while,
45:29
you're with them all the time. So when somebody leaves, I
45:31
always analogize that to be like It's almost like it really
45:36
messes with your routine. And when you're leaving prison
45:39
it's almost like you're leaving somebody on the field of battle.
45:42
Yeah you know that you're leaving them behind and they're
45:45
going to stay in that. He saying shitty plays yes for a
45:49
long time but I was going to ask you is but the relationship go
45:52
ahead. I was going to ask you though
45:54
when you went in and when you started dealing with the fact
45:57
that, okay? I'm going to be here for a
45:58
while. Did you mentally use any
46:02
particular? Strategies of like how am I
46:04
going to get through the day? What am I going to do?
46:07
As far as like, was there a strategy that how you handled
46:11
prison was it any different than how you handled yourself outside
46:15
of prison? No, it wasn't, it wasn't and I
46:17
think one of the questions that you are going to be asked a lot
46:21
was, were you scared? And, you know, the smart answer,
46:28
the answer for me is no you can't be, it's scary.
46:32
Yeah but You can't be scared. You can't let people know you're
46:35
scared, right? So you have to really wrap your
46:39
head around, and I don't know about the other ones around,
46:42
like, you were scared. No, I didn't.
46:46
It's not a good idea. You didn't even act like you
46:48
were worried about not going to work.
46:50
No, I was not worried about. They want you working there and
46:53
that's a whole other story of there was a job that's washed
46:56
out of. I went up to unicorn that I told
47:00
him. That wasn't for me.
47:01
You didn't see it. I didn't see myself in In a
47:03
factory. But anyway, you the
47:08
relationships don't stop either because Prison doesn't stop when
47:11
you leave, you're going to a halfway house and you want to
47:13
know, you know, what does that like what's the next step?
47:17
And when you go into prison, I don't know about you but the
47:22
months the the time I have spent on the internet just becoming an
47:27
internet attorney. First of all, I had to become an
47:29
attorney on the internet and then I had to I'm an expert on
47:34
what is prison life? Like, on the internet.
47:37
So you spend a lot of time wasted time.
47:40
I would probably tell, you know, like most time spent worrying is
47:44
time, spent wasted. But you think about prison a lot
47:48
a lot because for you, get that postcard.
47:50
Well, because it's the unfamiliar unknown, worlds, of
47:52
most people, most adults, or kids don't like change.
47:56
Well, this is a big one. It's a big one.
47:58
Yeah, and I went into my sentencing.
48:03
Electing to maybe. I'm going to get house, arrest.
48:06
I still had like, I think it's a flip of a coin, you know.
48:09
I was probation 25 year, I want, but yeah, mine was probation. 22
48:12
years. I want house arrest, I got the
48:14
two years. So from the minute, you get the
48:16
two years until you get. The postcard is a lot to think
48:21
about quite consumed with what's happening next and the mailman
48:26
plays a big part and you know the mail being here Big deal,
48:31
big deal. And I think that's the other
48:32
part of it. What you when you get there you
48:34
have to figure out. How does this all work is
48:38
there's prison rules. But the inmate rules are the
48:40
most important and you have to figure out how to work the true
48:43
link system so that you can talk to the outside world, you got to
48:46
figure out how to work the telephone.
48:48
So you can talk to the outside world.
48:50
So there's a lot of different things that you have to step
48:52
into and surprisingly. Well, for me, I found that very
48:56
quickly. There were some people that
48:58
wanted to help And I was that was one of the things, you know,
49:02
your Fear Factor going in and you know what's going to happen
49:05
as far as mean walking in. But you know, within an hour or
49:09
two there were guys said, hey, you need to do this, you know,
49:12
Roma was telling me how to do my bed and how to make a
49:14
military-style. Clark was telling me, you know,
49:18
you can go down to the chapel and get some toiletries until
49:21
you can go to the commissary and I'm going to show you how maybe
49:23
you get you a job. All those things were happening,
49:26
a towel towels, a big deal. Well, I didn't have A pillow for
49:30
a couple of weeks because the military Watson that's he told
49:36
me good luck with that. Takes a takes a couple weeks to
49:40
get everything set up, including your permanent bed.
49:45
Yeah, well, you weren't times you ended up, when you first
49:49
went, you did you go to a two or Wii U and B B1 B2?
49:56
Let me think here the the exhaust.
49:59
After listening, there's you got another layout for blocks,
50:02
right? There's the, a block, the B
50:04
Block to C Block in the D Block, there's the suburbs, which was
50:09
the B1 and C1, where those were two men cells, which were very
50:13
nice, very nice to have the rdap, you're in a separate
50:17
dormitory. While you're in the R&D program
50:19
to which is very nice, they cleaner.
50:21
They police that Lisa, but a couple of them are just, you
50:25
know, it's the wild west, there's a restaurant there's you
50:28
know. There's drinks.
50:30
Yeah, so I was upstairs towards the back where you're walking
50:36
out to the track past the CEO pest commissary past the CEOs
50:39
office. I can't remember if that was a
50:41
two, there was a to. Yeah, so a to I started out on a
50:44
bunk we were at capacity and was full at that time as it for
50:49
those sometimes old Jason you walked into a room with 50 bunk
50:53
beds, a locker and a plastic chair and that's your world and
50:57
you share that except I was on. Caught at the time when I came
51:01
in, we were full. We were over subscribed.
51:04
I forgot about. Yeah.
51:05
So, people were sleeping in the gym and for a long time.
51:09
Yeah. Under your, your stuff goes
51:11
under your cot. Well, you know, when that's
51:13
probably the way you should have been handled because you were
51:15
going to be there for a year, didn't know that up front when
51:19
you get there? You know, I'm telling you the
51:22
math on that first night of laying there on, okay, 80% of 24
51:27
months is what how Any more days of this do I have to go through.
51:33
So that's the first night you you wake up the next morning.
51:40
Get counted. Yeah again so I didn't know
51:45
really how often they're doing this count, right.
51:47
So the next, by the way, the count we make fun of it.
51:51
But the count is a very serious thing, because it is how many
51:54
people are in the prison. If you're missing, that means
51:58
that there's been an issue. So it's a big Deal.
51:59
And if you don't show up to count, that is counted as a
52:02
first level shot for escape. Yeah.
52:05
So do you don't miss Kau know. They're going to put you in.
52:08
It's not obvious. They're going to know they're
52:10
going to really mess with. It's a bad thing so but I did
52:13
it, I missed it. The very next day, I'm just
52:17
Meandering around and they just countless, it's like whatever 7.
52:22
I don't know why it was enough like we just counted.
52:25
But anyway, I'm walking around. I think I've got some laundry.
52:29
E in and I'm carrying a tennis racket.
52:31
Okay. That's the part that he didn't
52:33
like the most. So the hallway is empty if it
52:37
right? This is the next morning and the
52:40
hallway is empty. And I'm like, oh man, whatever
52:43
what is conference, everybody got out gymnasiums or
52:48
everybody's been free and I see this Co come around.
52:52
The what the fuck are you doing? Yeah, you are my count.
52:57
Look. Whoa, I'm gonna hustle.
52:59
I'm like It on back up there, right?
53:00
How long have you been here? Okay, I said, this is my second
53:04
day. Okay.
53:05
So, by got off, that's how I got some slack on that one because
53:09
you're new, because I'm new and within the same, okay, you can't
53:13
have visitors as soon as you get there either.
53:15
So you get there and for a period of time your, there's,
53:18
no, you're not calling anyone. You're not emailing anymore.
53:21
Even sure how to get a hold of them.
53:22
No, no one's coming to see you for a while.
53:27
They have to fill out their paperwork and get a bruise.
53:29
Around in a daze, with a tennis racket.
53:32
Yeah, I mean, this is quite different for me.
53:36
Good. So when we did get finally, so
53:40
we have visitors and we go back out to that.
53:43
What are you calling entry area? Or wherever we see, room is
53:46
visiting room. Dentist, waiting room.
53:48
Yes. So I also messed up Count Their
53:51
one time at 10:00, but I thought don't, you know, I'm here.
53:55
There's only 30 people out, you know that I'm out here.
53:59
Why are we leaving? So they do this while your mom's
54:02
there. Okay they're gonna come out and
54:06
just show your family know where he's a prisoner for sure we're
54:09
still going to make them come out and line up and during your
54:12
visiting time we're going to take a couple minutes and count
54:15
everyone and it's a little uncomfortable.
54:16
Do that front of your family for sure?
54:18
Uh-huh. Yeah yeah.
54:20
So So you find that your because I remember when you left we had
54:27
a like a little party way party and pizzas.
54:30
And yeah, as we do, when one is going on, one's leaving, one is
54:35
going to. So you get out and that's a big
54:41
day, right? I mean, you're like, I'm getting
54:43
out, you're getting out and I think it's a big, it is a big
54:47
day, it's a big big day, but there's I think there's a lot of
54:51
anticipation to the fact that, you know, People are like, it's
54:54
not what you think it's going to be.
54:55
No. And you went to the dismas
54:57
house. Yes.
54:58
Tell me about that. All right.
54:59
So you, you get out because we hear about it, you hear about
55:04
it, you don't hear anything good.
55:06
That's shoots a lot. There's a lot of talk about
55:08
dings house at Leavenworth. Go on, go on there.
55:13
So you get out, my dad picked me up just like he dropped me off.
55:17
We went to the first QuikTrip gas station, whatever somewhere.
55:23
There was choices and money that I spend my own money and get
55:27
whatever I want to be a real person.
55:29
Amazing. We drive through from
55:34
Leavenworth, back to St. Louis go to my grandma's house
55:38
where we're going to, you know, a nice meal.
55:40
Every, you know, few cousins are over etcetera, and you're really
55:44
wondering, will do I have to get to dismiss house today is
55:48
tomorrow, you know, I got a that some things as at that big a
55:51
deal. I've got to get You know, I got
55:53
to get my cell phone, I got to get a thank you.
55:56
Need been gone for a while, right?
55:59
Want to get some of my own clothes now not wear these
56:02
clothes so no, you got to go today.
56:06
You got to get downtown to deliver.
56:09
They give you a time, period. It's pretty tight.
56:11
It's pretty tight. And, you know, so you think
56:14
you're free and you think you're going to call down?
56:16
Hey, I'm going to be a little late late.
56:18
Don't worry about, ya know you're not free, get down here
56:22
now. Or is it still a b0p prisoner
56:25
still a bureau of prison? And if you don't get here I'm
56:28
supposed to be counted as an escape.
56:29
Yes. And we're going to send you back
56:31
and you're going to go back up to the medium maybe and that
56:33
catches your attention. Yeah.
56:35
So now you're now, okay, we'll be right down.
56:38
All right, so, you know, and we're skipping over some stuff
56:44
you don't get out of prison when you're supposed to either.
56:47
So your release date like you've calculated it.
56:50
You think this is the day, you think, you know, Know what it
56:53
is. You think you went online even
56:55
the what it tells you on line of your release date?
56:58
Well that just depends on if they have enough people there to
57:00
process you if it's around a holiday.
57:08
Yeah. So they don't care much but it
57:10
is exactly. So you know this is something
57:14
that ought to I don't know why this was never important to
57:18
anyone. That my release date is the 12th
57:21
and you're keeping me, I think. Is 9 more days and you know,
57:26
it's just the disappointment, a lot of discipline continues.
57:31
You know, the things that are not in your control and are not
57:35
to be discussed or let's rationalize.
57:38
Now, this happened not at a resort five-star an extra nine
57:42
days will just be fine. Exactly exactly and it's the
57:46
same thing at the halfway house, you're not getting out of the
57:48
halfway house when you're supposed.
57:51
I think the thing about the halfway Houses is that you are
57:55
going from one prison to another prison.
57:57
To me worse. Dismas house is the oldest
58:00
halfway house, the United States and it is not good and you've
58:04
got people there from Maximum to Camp.
58:08
Roughly 100 150 guys. Living in a really bad area town
58:12
on Co brilliant Boulevard and you here Cheyenne things happen
58:18
there. You had things are happening,
58:20
the Builder and all around me. Yeah.
58:23
And that's going to be your home now that you've left
58:27
Leavenworth, and you're thinking, when you're walking
58:29
into this, mess is my God. This place is worse than the
58:34
place. I just that is correct.
58:36
That is correct. This is worse.
58:38
I've never been in a more dangerous environment than where
58:41
they have put me. Yeah.
58:43
Right now. This is to protect you.
58:45
Yeah. Go to the halfway house.
58:46
They're helping you and you know, they collect 25 percent of
58:51
your income up front. Your your your weekly gross,
58:55
whatever your gross, not the net.
58:57
So there's definitely an incentive to go ahead and keep
59:00
you around a little while longer there.
59:05
So yeah, I mean you're just a piece of meat and we're going to
59:08
let you out of prison not when you're supposed to be.
59:10
But when we feel like it and we're going to keep you an extra
59:13
week at the halfway house to or months at the halfway house.
59:16
So when you got back and you started into the halfway house
59:19
and started seeing people, what was your feeling like, When you
59:23
walked into a room, does everybody know I went to prison
59:25
or do you feeling like it didn't really matter or did it even
59:28
cross your mind being back home? You know, I always kind of
59:32
thought they always kind of looking at me like that.
59:36
He didn't turn into a prison creature.
59:37
Did he's still Brent, right? Yeah, it's a little weird that
59:42
the coming out you know, the Introductions that you're going
59:48
to have to your groups of friends, when you get out, are
59:53
pretty awkward. And I went to an event where
59:58
they inducted one of them, one of my club members into the St,
1:00:03
Louis Sports Hall of Fame. So just after I got out within a
1:00:09
couple of weeks, hey, here's this event.
1:00:12
Okay, so immediately I'm out of prison and then directly We're
1:00:17
all going to this ballroom and we're doing this.
1:00:19
And yeah, I played polo for many years.
1:00:21
So there's all middle-class kids from Wentzville do.
1:00:26
Yeah. Absolutely.
1:00:27
Absolutely why not right? How do we once you've everybody
1:00:33
place for everybody to do where do we meet up?
1:00:37
So yeah I wasn't just walking into my.
1:00:41
Here's the guys I all went to welding school with and there
1:00:45
was a memorial. Now I'm back to You.
1:00:47
Okay, this is you're in the club again, back in the club again,
1:00:51
and you know, everybody what was it?
1:00:53
Like, glad to see you. Well, here's one thing, I think
1:00:57
that's interesting about and you and I have talked about this
1:00:59
Jason, it's, there is a feeling that, you know, when you're out,
1:01:06
you know, everything's back your normal.
1:01:08
You're getting into the swing of things.
1:01:10
Everything is good. One thing that I think that
1:01:13
people don't understand, there's two thirds of the people that go
1:01:16
to prison go. Back and three years and 3/4 go
1:01:19
back and five years and everybody's like, wow, those
1:01:21
guys are stupid. They're, you know, they need to
1:01:23
get their act right there. The, you know, they gotta figure
1:01:25
out, you know, get straight do this.
1:01:28
But here's the thing that I don't think people really take
1:01:31
into account understand is that When you get out, we are the
1:01:36
last of our breed where you can legally discriminate against an
1:01:41
ex-felon because you have to put it on your job application,
1:01:46
right? You have to push back the Box,
1:01:48
check the box, you have to put it into where you want to live.
1:01:51
And, and most places won't rent to somebody who's an ex-felon
1:01:55
and you need a car or credit. So the three things that you
1:01:59
need in life, a play money. A place to live.
1:02:03
A job and credit or a car. Makes it really hard to get
1:02:09
those things really tough because those are tough anyway.
1:02:13
But then if you put on top of it that you got the life sentence.
1:02:16
Yeah. When you get the life sentence
1:02:18
of, you're a felon which can continues well after you leave
1:02:22
Leavenworth. And well after you leave dismas
1:02:24
house, they're not trying to help you get back into the
1:02:28
community, really, they're not really trying to help you get a
1:02:32
job. They're not really.
1:02:33
Trying to help you with your continued treatment from the
1:02:38
rdap program. They're just keeping their claws
1:02:41
in you for financial purposes. If you think about it both you
1:02:45
and I started back in 2007, 2008 on this journey and I think it
1:02:51
takes a. I also think when you get out,
1:02:53
it takes a good six months to a year to get your feet under you.
1:02:56
I and I mean, get your feet under you.
1:02:59
Like, you're not looking over your shoulder, you're not
1:03:01
thinking that you got to be account, you know?
1:03:04
There's a and everything's moving pretty fast for and I
1:03:08
don't know how to really analogize that to something, but
1:03:11
it feels like life is moving its life.
1:03:14
Stop in prison, literally. Yes.
1:03:16
And then you jump back into a moving car to catch back up and
1:03:20
that's what you're doing. Like in the first six months to
1:03:22
a year is just trying to feel a little bit more normal because
1:03:29
it doesn't happen right away and you're being put in Situation's
1:03:32
where you don't feel normal like Being put in the dismas house
1:03:34
and other places you trying to get a job, you're trying to get
1:03:37
back and you trying to get a job.
1:03:38
And now, here comes this guy from its some investigator that
1:03:42
wants to come see you at your job site, which is very
1:03:45
intimidating to everybody. Yeah.
1:03:47
And when you're on an open floor Bullpen, of sales people like I
1:03:51
was well you can spot this guy because he's a disheveled schlub
1:03:55
and working for the government he stands out like a red thumb.
1:03:58
For the guy who is, you know, and he's the one that's supposed
1:04:02
to be the Jetta Miser of Mi here working for real.
1:04:06
Yeah. But I think my point to was is
1:04:09
that you know for the nonviolent guys and there's a lot of
1:04:13
non-violent guys that are that are in the ex-felon world.
1:04:17
You know there's 25 million of us, there's two and a half
1:04:19
million incarcerated now. So there's a large number of
1:04:23
people that are affected by this and for the nonviolent people.
1:04:27
You know, I think there has to be something in some way.
1:04:33
Way tweaked to, where Society benefit?
1:04:37
I mean, you're a smart guy that built a big company, you know, a
1:04:41
lot of companies could benefit from that.
1:04:43
That man, it's a really hard interview, right?
1:04:46
It's a very hard interview. You're going to have to find
1:04:50
someone that, you know, to give you another opportunity and
1:04:53
that's what I did and beyond that, everyone is wanting to
1:04:58
make sure that they get the benefit of your business Acumen
1:05:01
along with the felon So here's a guy that used to make a lot of
1:05:06
money knows a lot. Let's learn everything that he
1:05:09
knows for as little as we possibly can because he's just
1:05:13
happy to be outside. Yeah, that's swell and still
1:05:17
dealing with that, right? So yeah, I mean we're a
1:05:22
disenfranchised group with nothing really appealing or
1:05:29
attractive in in Dating us, the white collar guy.
1:05:35
I mean I can't even get a job selling business services for
1:05:39
Charter cable, which is odd. Because there's no, there's,
1:05:45
there's no danger to you. Yeah.
1:05:48
If I get a higher you you're not gonna do anything to me.
1:05:52
I'm probably probably the least likely person that wants to go
1:05:57
back to president someone who was there already.
1:05:59
Exactly. Yeah.
1:06:01
Well, the other Thing I was going to ask you Jason, is it?
1:06:05
You know when you get out what do you think?
1:06:10
As your normal day? What is it?
1:06:12
You think you probably appreciate the most not being in
1:06:14
prison? Well, the control of your own
1:06:18
time and what your and what you're going to do and when
1:06:21
you're going to do it, I see that to the that and it's such.
1:06:24
It's the little things. If being able to do what you
1:06:28
want to do when you're going to do it not having to ask somebody
1:06:31
to do it and I've related that back to you know for the last 18
1:06:35
months. Everybody's got just a little
1:06:37
taste of prison. Yeah, we've been locked out.
1:06:40
Can't be where you want to can't go when you want.
1:06:42
Can't go the time you want got to wear a mask.
1:06:45
It's a little taste of prison in it and it really knocks people
1:06:49
off their game. And you know the thing, you know
1:06:53
that I think in the part of, you know, this whole podcast is
1:06:57
you've got to continue to take that step.
1:07:01
We're garlis, if it scares the shit out of you, the thing you
1:07:05
fear the most to finally get through that.
1:07:08
Walk around, climb over it, whatever to get to the place you
1:07:11
want to be. And finally, set yourself free
1:07:14
to success means a lot of things to a lot of different people,
1:07:16
but We I think and I think Jason, you have been in a
1:07:24
situation where you've had a lot lost a lot and now you're in a
1:07:28
position to where you're trying to continue to use your brain,
1:07:33
be productive and be productive. Yeah, feels good to do that.
1:07:38
It does it does. And I'm happy to be out of
1:07:42
course as an understatement but just the fact that it's Not
1:07:49
over, and it's never over. That's right.
1:07:52
That's right. It's in that.
1:07:54
And that case, that part of the things is a life sentence.
1:07:57
And I think that's why, you know, in the, in the grand
1:08:01
scheme of things, you have to have a mindset that can easily
1:08:07
make you fall into a rut. And you have to keep thinking
1:08:10
about what are the things I can do that.
1:08:13
Still help me feel like me that I'm making a difference in
1:08:16
something. And one of the reasons why I'm
1:08:18
doing this podcast is, is I want to use our experiences that
1:08:22
we've gone through. So that people, they don't, you
1:08:24
don't have to go to prison, right?
1:08:26
But everybody gets in their own ruts, I recommend, you don't
1:08:30
know. I recommend highly recommend it,
1:08:33
but everybody gets into their own Roots.
1:08:35
Whether it's, you know, a bad job that you're stuck in, or a
1:08:39
bad marriage or you've lost hope and some type of Deal or
1:08:41
somebody's died in your family, any of those type things, life
1:08:46
is unfair. The point is, is can you still
1:08:50
make a difference and still try to make a difference in what
1:08:54
you're doing? Because No one walks through
1:08:58
this life without having to deal with their own shit.
1:09:02
Yeah, it's not The struggle towards happiness.
1:09:07
You got to work for it. I work for it.
1:09:09
Got to have a good mindset to the Old Henry, Ford quote is
1:09:12
whether you think you can or whether you think you can't.
1:09:15
You're right, you're right. So Jason man, I appreciate you
1:09:19
coming on here to yes this has been a fun talk and I think
1:09:24
hopefully somebody can get something out of something that
1:09:27
we we talked about today. I want to remind everybody.
1:09:33
The book nightmare success is coming out pre-order 1st
1:09:39
November and go to Apple podcast Spotify wherever you get your
1:09:44
podcast and and follow. I want followers, I'm following
1:09:49
Jace is gonna follow, so yeah. Follow hit the like and talk to
1:09:56
you next time. The book nightmare success is
1:09:35
coming out pre-order 1st November and go to Apple podcast
1:09:43
Spotify wherever you get your podcast and and follow.
1:09:47
I want followers, I'm following Jace is gonna follow, so yeah.
1:09:52
Follow hit the like and talk to you next time.