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The Evolving Landscape of HR Services: Laurel Cline's Perspective | HR Series · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of Inspired Stories, where leaders
0:07
share their experiences so we can learn from their successes,
0:10
how they've overcome adversity, and explore current challenges
0:13
they're facing. Welcome to another edition of
0:18
the Inspired Stories podcast, where leaders share their
0:20
experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired
0:24
by how they've overcome adversity.
0:26
My name is Anthony Codispodi and today's guest is Laurel Klein.
0:30
Laurel is the division CEO of Herbine HR Consulting.
0:35
Herbine had traditionally been an accounting firm, and they
0:38
were able to expand their offerings into HR services when
0:42
they acquired Mosteller and Associates.
0:45
Today, Herbine HR Consulting provides and supplements human
0:49
resource solutions to a wide variety of clients, primarily in
0:53
the eastern and central part of Pennsylvania and across many
0:57
Mid-Atlantic states. Laurel is a seasoned human
1:00
resources professional with over 25 years of experience spanning
1:04
multiple areas of HR including compensation, benefits, training
1:09
and development, recruitment and employee relations.
1:13
She has ABA from Penn State, is a graduate of the PA Bankers
1:17
Association Intermediate School of Banking, and has completed
1:21
the principles of Executive Rewards and advanced concepts
1:24
and executive rewards coursework.
1:26
Now before we get into all that good stuff, today's episode is
1:29
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1:57
Now back to our guest today, Laurel Klein.
2:00
I appreciate you making the time to Share your story today.
2:03
Thank you so much, Anthony. It's great to be here.
2:06
So, Laurel, let's go back to the beginning.
2:07
What first got you interested in the human resources field?
2:12
That's a great question. So, you know, when I think back
2:15
about, you know, college and trying to decide what to do, in
2:18
high school I had done some work in restaurants and then
2:23
throughout college I was an assistant manager in the dining
2:26
hall at school. And so I had, and even in high
2:29
school, I was the assistant manager of a small restaurant.
2:31
So I had, I had done some people management and I knew that I
2:35
liked that, but I didn't necessarily wasn't sure what I
2:39
was going to do after school. So I had interviewed for a
2:41
number of like retail kinds of positions, retail management
2:44
kinds of jobs, you know, operations manager types of
2:48
roles, ended up at a financial institution and really thought
2:53
my, my track was going to be going into retail banking.
2:56
And then a position became open in the HR department and I
3:00
interviewed and they hired me for that position.
3:03
And the rest, as they say, is history.
3:05
So it's interesting to me because you know, a lot of the
3:08
business leaders that I talked to, their least favorite part of
3:13
running and operating a business is the managing people part of
3:17
it. People are really challenging.
3:20
I mean, you need them, they're and, and building a great team
3:23
is the difference between a company being really successful
3:26
versus failing. But not everybody enjoys this.
3:29
What is it about your personality that you think drew
3:32
you to this really challenging aspect?
3:35
I I like to problem solve. So I look at any situation and
3:40
think, OK, what are the motivations of the individual in
3:43
the situation? What are the external kind of,
3:46
you know, pressures on the situation and what do we have
3:50
control of and what do we have control of and how, how can I
3:53
help that person or the business figure out options to address
3:58
whatever the problem may be? And, and there's really not one
4:02
solution, But I do think that, you know, helping people
4:06
identify what they own within a situation, whether it's the
4:09
organization or the individual who's having difficulty or a
4:12
department or manager or whomever, you know, what, what
4:15
do they have control of? And then what can they work on?
4:18
That's, that's what really I find fascinating and interesting
4:22
about human resources. You know, how do you, how do you
4:24
help move an organization and individuals forward?
4:28
It's almost like a like a psychologist role.
4:30
Did you you have a background in any of that or I?
4:33
Don't other other than a a lot of individuals in my in my
4:40
family with mental health kinds of issues.
4:42
And so I've, I've, you know, been done a lot of work around
4:47
those kinds of things. And so think a lot about that.
4:51
One of our long term clients is a substance use disorder
4:55
treatment facility. And so certainly worked with
4:58
them a lot and understand a lot about, you know, really the
5:03
serenity prayer type of thing, you know, except the things you
5:05
cannot change. And I've learned, you know, over
5:07
my career that that's a really great mantra for people just in
5:13
general. And And so that's that's kind of
5:16
my perspective. On that now the role that you're
5:18
in now, you're certainly you've, you've risen to a much higher
5:21
level the the CEO of the division.
5:24
Do you get the opportunity to interact with employees on the
5:30
same level that you used to when you were sort of kind of rising
5:33
through the ranks? No, I mean, it's certainly our
5:36
own team. You know, obviously I have a
5:37
lot. It's a small and, you know, I, I
5:40
would love to, you know, make it sound like I, it's, it's, it's
5:43
really not. I interact with people every day
5:46
and, you know, don't consider myself to be any different than
5:49
than anybody else. Just different responsibility.
5:52
Let me build you up, Laurel. Come on.
5:54
Don't. You're you're great.
5:56
Yeah. Go ahead.
5:57
I appreciate that. I appreciate it.
5:59
So I don't I don't get the chance to deal with employee
6:02
one-on-one employee issues the way that I did.
6:04
However, I do have a number of relationships with president
6:09
CEOs of organizations and so they do still call me about
6:13
employee issues one-on-one in that situation.
6:16
So I do get the occasional opportunity.
6:18
And one of one of the things that I really loved to do when I
6:22
was, I'll say just consulting when I was when it was
6:25
consulting, you know, more hands on was employee investigations.
6:31
Really always found that to be fascinating in terms of, you
6:34
know, really trying to get to the root of the problem and
6:36
offering client suggestions. We're not just dealing with a
6:41
particular investigation issue, but what's the, what's the more
6:44
global issue that needs to be addressed with those things.
6:47
So yeah. And so how did you find your way
6:51
to herbine? So my Star Associates was the
6:55
organization that Herbine purchased.
6:58
I excuse me, My Star Associates was started in 1996 by Chet
7:02
Monsteller. Chet Monsteller had been the
7:05
head of human resources at Meridian Bank or which was the
7:09
bank that I was working for when I came out of college.
7:11
So I knew of him and certainly worked with him over the years.
7:15
When I left banking, I went to work in manufacturing for a
7:18
couple years. Chad had started the business
7:21
and happened to be doing some work for the client that I was
7:25
director of human resources for. So I was still, you know, kind
7:28
of in touch with him and I lost my position at Morgan.
7:32
There was a executive change and you know, as happens many times
7:36
when the leader goes, so do the other executives in the
7:40
organization, which was which was fine for me at the time for
7:44
lots of reasons. And so Chuck reached out and
7:47
said, hey, what do you think about consulting?
7:49
And my family was young and I thought this would be a great
7:52
opportunity to have more flexibility, you know, work more
7:56
part time hours. Unfortunately for me, my husband
7:59
had insurance and a good full time job and was very busy.
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So it was kind of worked for our family at the time.
8:05
And that's that was the beginning and it's just kind of
8:08
rolled from there. And so you were able to kind of
8:12
level up with some of your experiences and broaden the the
8:15
range of skill sets that you had while you're with Mosteller.
8:19
Absolutely, absolutely. So you know, Chet's, Chet's
8:23
position was always, hey, if you haven't done it, give it a try.
8:26
You know, and give you an example.
8:27
We had a client that wanted some affirmative action plan
8:31
training. They were implementing a
8:33
affirmative action plan across a very large organization and
8:36
needed some training, so they reached out.
8:38
Now, I had done affirmative action plans on the inside of a
8:41
company, but I've never, you know, didn't, didn't have any
8:44
great depth of experience in it, which I was like, yeah, we can
8:46
do that. Sure, sure.
8:48
I'll give them a proposal. I don't think I made any money
8:51
on that project because I think my hourly rate, having to try to
8:54
learn everything and ramp up was, was was pretty low.
8:57
But it was a great opportunity. And, you know, from there,
9:00
that's, that's sort of the approach to a lot of different
9:02
things. If I didn't know, I studied, I
9:04
figured it out and you know, kind of grew and developed my
9:08
skills over time with, with different clients.
9:11
And then in July of 2021, Herbine, so Chet as a part of
9:15
his exit of the business needed to sell the business.
9:20
And so Herbine was, was one of the individuals or one of the
9:23
companies, I should say that, that Julie talked with and it
9:26
was a good match for us. And so in July of 2021, they
9:30
purchased us and and we've been with them ever since and so.
9:34
Since the acquisition, has much changed about what you do, the
9:40
way that you offer it, how you, how you run the business?
9:43
No, really one of my Co workers likes to say, you know, same
9:47
Twinkie, different rapper. It's it's our our team has has,
9:52
you know, has stayed. We've we've I shouldn't say
9:55
we've not. You know, we certainly had some
9:57
folks leave and move on turnover and things like that.
10:00
But in terms of how we interact with our clients and things of
10:03
that nature and the and the services we deliver, that has
10:06
not changed some of the, you know what I would say internal
10:10
workings that of course and and it continues to evolve.
10:14
That has to change because we're part of a larger organization.
10:18
Herb mind offers other advisory services, risk management
10:21
management advisory services. So we're, we're part of kind of
10:24
a broader offering of advisory services as part of her mind.
10:28
It gives us opportunity to have, you know, engineer services
10:33
provided to us and IT and like we're and we're part of a larger
10:37
team, which is great. I was going to say, you know,
10:41
between Mosteller and Herbine, if I'm reading your LinkedIn
10:44
page correctly, you've been there combined over 26 years.
10:48
Is that right? I was a child.
10:48
I was a child when I started, obviously.
10:52
Right. Yes.
10:54
So season. Season really means old.
10:56
That's what that means. I mean, you just you don't see
10:59
that kind of longevity at A at a company very often anymore.
11:02
What is it that has sort of kept you there?
11:05
I. Think a lot of things one is
11:09
that for me, the environment provided me with an opportunity
11:13
as my life changed as my, you know, children got older and and
11:18
those things transitioned. I was able to change my schedule
11:22
so I was part time then I was able to be full time when I
11:25
needed to be. And you know, we can grow and
11:28
and acquire new skills and new responsibilities as the
11:33
organization grew. So from that standpoint, from my
11:35
career standpoint, I think it afforded me what I was looking
11:38
for. And I like to be challenged.
11:42
I like to learn new things all the time.
11:44
And so being able to go into different companies, sometimes
11:48
everyday, you know, when, when I would have multiple clients
11:51
where I was there on site, human resource director, human
11:54
resource manager, or what have you, you know, sometimes it'd be
11:58
like, OK, it's Tuesday, where am I, where am I going?
12:01
But I loved being able to be at different organizations and
12:04
learn about what their needs were, what, what made them
12:08
profitable, how they, you know, kinds of people issues they had
12:13
and what, what kinds of opportunities do they have for
12:16
providing solutions that could maybe resolve some of their,
12:19
their again, problem solving. That really is the theme that I
12:22
think runs through everything that I do.
12:24
I really love that. I love, you know, within
12:28
financial services, then went to manufacturing and now in
12:31
consulting. We really are are so fortunate
12:34
to have the opportunity to work with a number of different
12:37
organizations and industries. So you know, healthcare was not
12:40
something I had worked with and I've worked with a number of
12:42
continuing care retirement communities now find that to be
12:45
really interesting manufacturing all different types of
12:49
manufacturers. We've done some work with some
12:51
retail establishments and of course, financial services has
12:55
been a right throughout my career here certainly.
12:59
So I love really, you know, catering services and, and, you
13:07
know, solutions to whatever that organization's needs are.
13:11
And you know, it, not all financial services companies or,
13:16
or manufacturing companies have the same needs or issues.
13:20
And so it's not like you have a cookie cutter solution and
13:22
you're going to pocket to say, Oh, Anthony, you, you know,
13:25
you're this type of a company. So here's, you know, let me tell
13:28
you what you need to do. So that's, that's what's kept me
13:31
interested, engaged and wanting to and, and I work with a great
13:35
team of people. I mean, honestly, that's.
13:37
Makes a big difference. That's what makes everybody come
13:39
to work, right, Is being able to work with people that you enjoy
13:42
being around, that you're that you respect.
13:47
Yeah, just a group of people. You said something interesting
13:51
there 'cause you, you started to talk about, you know, seeing the
13:54
different problems that some of your clients have.
13:57
And then you chose a different word, which I, I think shows a
14:01
lot about your personality, what kinds of opportunities exist for
14:05
them to problem solve. And I think that that's really
14:10
important because a lot of times we get our heads sort of wrapped
14:13
around all the problems that are in front of us, all these
14:16
mountains that we have to climb. And I've noticed this personally
14:20
about myself, when I can be curious about that obstacle in
14:24
front of me and not look at it so much as a problem, but more
14:27
as an opportunity to grow, to pivot, to do something
14:31
different, something unique. That's when I find that I I'm
14:36
really coming up with some of the best ideas, the best
14:38
solutions. You find the same?
14:42
Yeah, we just lost power for a moment, so apologize if I went
14:45
dark. That's all right.
14:47
Well, we're all with it. Yeah, but did you find the same
14:50
thing for yourself? I do.
14:52
And I, I, you know, we all look, I'm, I, I will be the first to
14:55
admit that there's days when I, you know, feel like the issues
14:58
that I'm trying to solve are, you know, weigh, weigh me down
15:02
and they're, you know, insurmountable.
15:04
And you know, if I look at a theme for myself, I'm OK.
15:14
We'll just, we'll just. It's the full.
15:19
Moon you were talking about We'll we'll just roll with the.
15:24
Stroke effect, yeah, that's, that's fine.
15:26
But it's interesting. That you're, you've still got,
15:29
you've still got Internet. So you have lost full power.
15:32
Just the the lights have kind of dimmed.
15:34
I don't know what is going on. I think they're doing some work
15:37
in the parking lot. So which was, which was one of
15:39
the things when I arrived, I was like, huh, lots of trucks here.
15:42
That's never a good sign. But but the opportunity and the
15:45
and the issue piece, you know, I sometimes get too stuck on, you
15:55
know, I don't, I, I'm not a person who gives up, right?
15:57
That's just my personality. I don't give up.
16:00
But sometimes what, what I'm trying to remind myself as I, as
16:05
I get more experienced, AKA older, is that there, there is
16:10
not necessarily, you know, a perfect way through or perfect
16:16
solution to a problem. So sometimes I spend too much
16:19
time and energy trying to figure out the best or the most perfect
16:22
solution. It just has to be a, it's just,
16:25
you know, you need to look at options and, and figure out what
16:29
is, you know, what are the ramifications of those options
16:31
and make a decision. I don't have difficulty making
16:34
decisions, but certainly feeling the weight of lots and lots of,
16:40
you know, opportunities out there.
16:42
And and even that is a great like in, in this business, there
16:46
are so many opportunities as a consultant, right?
16:48
There's just literally tons of opportunities we're going out
16:53
which, which are, which are the opportunities that are, you
16:57
know, most appropriate for us to go after or going to, you know,
17:01
provide the opportunities for the team to grow and be
17:04
successful and for her mind to grow and be successful.
17:07
So those kinds of things are, are the fun and the and the
17:10
really great opportunities out there.
17:13
Laura, I wonder if maybe we could try something if this
17:15
would make a difference if you have a cell phone, if you could
17:18
turn the the light on and maybe set it underneath and see if
17:21
that will illuminate your beautiful face here.
17:26
We will try. Well, let's see, Is that?
17:30
Do I look ghostly? I, I think it's definitely an
17:35
improvement from being able to, to basically just being able to
17:39
see your silhouette. So I, I'd like to hear a little
17:44
bit about how you think about the different services that you
17:47
guys provide at herb mine. How would you kind of put those
17:51
into different categories or pillars and maybe we can pick
17:54
some of them and you could talk about like a specific example of
17:59
how you deliver that service and what it looks like in in
18:01
practice? Yeah.
18:03
So headline overall, of course, you know, there's the accounting
18:07
audit, you know, the typical, we have, you know, kind of the CFO
18:13
for hire, accounting services for hire type of practice
18:16
management, advisory services, risk management, which I
18:19
mentioned. And then the human capital
18:21
practice, which includes, you know, malpractice, our practice.
18:28
And then also we have a leadership organization, a
18:31
couple of leadership focused organization, leadership
18:34
development focused organizations.
18:36
The, the Herbian HR consulting practice is, is really made-up
18:42
of I guess I would say 4 pillars if I was going to identify it
18:44
that way. And we have the total rewards
18:47
practice, which is compensation and benefits.
18:50
So any type of base, base pay market studies, you know,
18:55
competitive market studies, incentive plan design, we do
18:58
executive compensation. We don't do benefit, we don't
19:02
broker benefits, but we do provide just guidance to clients
19:06
in terms of what would be solutions maybe that your
19:09
employees would would be interested in or how do we work
19:12
with the brokers with you to get the best result for you as an
19:15
organization. That's really kind of the extent
19:18
of our benefit practice. We have the, the talent
19:21
acquisition team, which does contingent recruiting, retain
19:26
search, you know, more executive and retain search services as
19:31
well as, you know, kind of outsource recruiting.
19:35
So recruiting is just a specific process.
19:38
So we have clients that don't have internal staff to handle
19:41
their, their talent acquisition. So we'll do that for them on an
19:44
hourly basis. So that's, and we also will work
19:47
with clients who, particularly since COVID, you know, as, as
19:50
it's been more and more difficult to attract employees,
19:54
figuring out, you know, the, the best way to optimize your
19:59
organization's talent acquisition position in the
20:02
market. Like, you know, how are, how are
20:04
employees getting to you? What it, what does your website
20:07
look like? How easy is it for them to
20:08
applaud? How long is it taking you to
20:10
respond to them? Like so, so optimizing really
20:13
your talent acquisition process, that's something you work with
20:16
clients to do in that, in that space, we have organizational
20:21
development, we do succession planning.
20:26
Work with, do executive coaching with, with clients, We'll do 360
20:31
evaluations with them and, and then that often leads to to
20:35
coaching assignments. We also do a lot of leadership
20:39
training, everything from supervisory, managerial, you
20:45
know, on, on up the scale and, and that's been interesting post
20:51
COVID, you know, we had a lot of focus on the compensation area
20:55
of the practice because everybody was trying to figure
20:58
out, you know, as, as we all remember, you know, inflation
21:01
was crazy, wages were, you know, it was, it was just a crazy time
21:05
from a compensation standpoint. Now there's been more focus on,
21:09
OK, so I've, I've worked on attracting my talent and, and I
21:13
still need to focus on their attention from an employee
21:15
engagement standpoint. But part of what I know people
21:18
want is they want that development piece.
21:20
So we've seen an increased interest in training and
21:24
development, you know, at frontline supervisor level in
21:27
particular, which I think is fantastic because those are the
21:30
people that interact with your team every day in and out.
21:34
And, and they have the most, I think the most impact on the
21:37
success of your organization in terms of productivity, in terms
21:41
of managing turnover, making sure that people are feeling
21:45
like the work environment is both positive and productive.
21:49
Last but not least, we have the, the HR operations and strategy
21:54
practice, which is all of our team that do, excuse me, really
22:01
HR generalist types of, of work at different levels.
22:04
So everything from we have small clients that are, you know, 15
22:07
employees and they just need really any type of HR help too.
22:12
We have clients that are, you know, 10,000 employees and they
22:15
might need some, you know, services to be plugged in.
22:18
So whether it's they need a handbook or they need, hey, we,
22:21
we need a new human Capital Management system and we don't
22:24
know which one to select. So can you help us, you know,
22:28
pick the solution that's going to be right for us and then help
22:30
us implement it and, and really digitize our processes.
22:35
Lots of organizations have opportunities for, you know,
22:39
what I call interim HR assignments, which was something
22:42
I used to do a lot of. So your HR director leaves, you
22:46
need somebody to fill that role for, you know, a period, a
22:49
period of time until you can fill it.
22:50
So often times we will both act as the interim HR department or
22:56
you know, director as well as we'll have our talent
22:59
acquisition team source for that replacement.
23:03
Because then we have a really an inside knowledge of that client
23:06
and can better help the talent acquisition team understand the
23:10
culture and what's really needed in that, in that role.
23:13
So investigations, employee investigations, all different
23:17
types of things. Our HR operations team is really
23:19
kind of the, you know, the utility utility team that can do
23:23
really all, all things HR. I mean, that is what you just
23:27
went over. There is a lot and and it's a
23:31
little eye opening for sort of a, a layperson.
23:35
You know, I've, I've owned and operated several businesses in
23:37
my life. And probably like most business
23:40
owners, HR is a necessary component, like hugely
23:44
important, but it wasn't something that I got super
23:47
involved with or, you know, would consider myself an expert
23:51
in. And so to hear you talk about
23:53
this wide range of services that that you provide that falls into
23:57
this HR umbrella, again, I'm going to use the term eye
24:00
opening and and I'd like to kind of go into some of them a little
24:03
bit more so we can kind of understand some specifics.
24:07
The first one that you talked about the total rewards
24:10
compensation and benefits. This one again to a layperson
24:15
from the outside seems like it would be relatively simple.
24:19
It's like, what am I paying somebody?
24:21
What's the health insurance? What's the retirement plan?
24:26
And yes, there's research that needs to be done into the, the
24:29
insurance and the the retirement plan and all of that.
24:32
But once it's in place, it's like, OK, now it's done and we
24:35
move on. I'm sure that I'm missing a lot
24:38
though, like help me fill in the gaps.
24:40
What what is sort of entailed under this compensation and
24:43
benefits umbrella? I, you know, I'm, I'm probably,
24:48
I, my background is compensation.
24:50
I'm a number of different things, but among them is the
24:52
compensation work. And so I'm, I'm a little bit of
24:54
a compensation nerd. So I'll try not to go, I'll try
24:57
not to go too deep into that. But what I think is always
25:00
really interesting is every organization is different and,
25:05
and compensation is not like here, here you go.
25:09
Just let's plug it in and we're going to leave it there and
25:11
we're going to move away to some extent.
25:12
I feel like benefits can be there, although I do think every
25:15
year you need to tweak them and look at, you know, do we want to
25:18
offer pet insurance this year or what do we, what do we want to
25:20
do? 401K kind of the same, same
25:22
thing. But once you once you know
25:24
competitively within your industry, what is, what is an
25:28
industry standard and what can you afford to do?
25:30
Like what are your resources look like?
25:31
I mean, that's always a challenge too, stepping back and
25:34
looking at the organization's resources and saying, how much
25:36
do we want to put in benefits? How much do we want to put in
25:40
compensation? How much we want to put in the
25:41
pension piece? What happened during COVID was
25:44
there's, there was so much focus on, on, you know, just, you
25:49
know, pay base pay that has continued.
25:53
And there's all kinds of discussion we could have around
25:55
generational issues with that and how that's, you know,
25:58
changed over the years. And clients that have have been
26:01
way too focused in their benefits piece on investing in
26:06
that piece versus their, their base pay, their salaries,
26:09
etcetera. But, but what's, what's fun to
26:12
me about the compensation work that we do is every
26:16
organization's different. So, so you could say that you're
26:19
ACEO of your company. What that means for your company
26:23
might be very different. And that mean it'd be the best
26:26
example 'cause there's, there's a lot of similarities in what CE
26:28
OS do. But let's say it's a customer
26:31
service position or some other goal.
26:34
When I look at your title, that might indicate one thing to me.
26:38
But when I read your job description, that might be very
26:40
different. Or when, if you don't have a job
26:41
description, if we talk about it, that's not really what
26:44
customer service does at this other organization.
26:47
We need to know what the job actually is so that we're going
26:50
out to look at the market and determine what is the best data
26:54
to be pulling to match to that position.
26:57
That's that's the part of compensation so that you're.
27:00
Competitive with what else is out there?
27:02
Correct, correct. And and that you're matching it
27:04
to the right skill set because that's not, you know, that's not
27:08
necessarily the same across the board.
27:10
So we, we have a number of databases that we have access to
27:15
that we can use. A lot of smaller organizations
27:17
don't have that benefit, right? They can't afford to go out and
27:20
purchase, you know, 3 or 4 different large national
27:23
databases, even if they're, you know, maybe they have, you know,
27:28
locations across the country. You want to know like what, what
27:31
is that position paid geographically?
27:33
It's different in San Francisco, obviously, than it is in, you
27:37
know, Philadelphia. So all of those nuances come
27:40
into play with compensation. And then are you, are you a
27:43
large enough organization that you need to have a salary
27:45
structure that you can work within from a pay administration
27:48
standpoint or not? And what's even if you're not,
27:52
you need to have some way of looking at internal equity
27:56
within your organization. You know, pay transparency is
27:59
something that although it's mandated in the state of
28:02
Pennsylvania, there's a number of states across the country
28:04
that certainly have paid transparency regulations.
28:07
What does? That mean like you're pay has to
28:10
be published somewhere or? No, so, so pay transparency is,
28:14
you know, it's a little bit different by, by state, but but
28:17
primarily at the moment the focus is on it.
28:19
It really came out of sort of the me too movement.
28:23
So it was, it was and still is primarily focused on the
28:27
difference between the pay rates for men and women.
28:30
But it's really trying to say you need to, you need to publish
28:34
what the, what the pay range is for this job when you post it
28:38
like being, being transparent externally about what the pay
28:41
range is. And, and when it started it, it
28:43
was as simple as you're not permitted to ask somebody what
28:47
they're making today. Because right, if you think
28:49
about it like if we're perpetuating that, that gap,
28:52
that pay gap, if I, if I'm asking you, Anthony, so Anthony,
28:55
what are you making today? And you told me I'm making
28:57
$50,000. Even if the range I have is
29:00
budgeted for 70, I'm going to say, well, gosh, Anthony might
29:03
take the job for $55,000, right? So that's what pay transparency
29:07
was initially trying to address is the, is the pay gap between
29:11
between men and women, which exists today.
29:14
But that's, that's where it came out of, I believe it will and,
29:17
and has in a couple of states gotten to also addressing that
29:21
inequity among, you know, minority, you know, other, other
29:28
aspects of, of, of what are you within your organization?
29:34
But that's really what pay transparency.
29:35
Some Colorado is probably Colorado and California are
29:38
probably the the more highly regulated states.
29:43
And so you do have some, you know, some companies, there's a
29:46
tech company I know out there that literally publishes all the
29:48
rates. Of course, an executive comp, if
29:51
you're publicly treated, that's public information.
29:54
So that's pure pay transparency. And do you do work with publicly
29:58
traded companies in the compensation space?
30:00
We do, some of our financial services institutions are are
30:04
publicly traded. So that's not the majority of
30:07
our clients, but but we do in that particular aspect of it,
30:10
so. You were sort of touching on
30:13
something there. I'm a little bit curious about
30:15
the diversity, equity, inclusion, DEI that's been
30:20
increasingly a kind of a hot button issue.
30:22
You know, we saw a big movement towards it at the beginning of
30:26
COVID, George Floyd, Black Lives Matter, and it feels like now
30:31
things are kind of swinging back the other way.
30:35
Is this something that you're seeing with the clients that you
30:37
work with as well? Yeah, I mean our clients were a
30:41
little bit insulated from some of that because our our market
30:45
tends to be more of what I look in the middle market, you know
30:48
the the family owned organizations closely held you
30:53
know somewhere between 50 and 500 employees.
30:56
We do have certainly larger not. Getting the national attention
31:00
that correct create pressure to move one way or the other.
31:03
Well, and Pennsylvania is not one of the states, not that we
31:06
do certainly have clients in New York and Maryland and New Jersey
31:09
and and other states, but a lot of our clients are still
31:14
probably 70% are still in Pennsylvania where that is not a
31:18
requirement. However, when we do compensation
31:22
work, one of the things that we always do when we're doing
31:24
American study is to say we point out like, hey, you have 10
31:28
incumbents in this position. Two of them are you know, 20%
31:33
higher or lower than the rest of the incumbents or there's an in
31:37
inverse relationship. Your newer, your newer employees
31:40
are making more than the employees who've been here for
31:42
10 years like that. That's not good, that's
31:45
inequitable, creates compression.
31:47
And if you, you know, there can be lots of reasons for that, but
31:51
we try to point out this is what it looks like on the surface.
31:54
If, for example, you have two female employees who are making
31:57
less than the rest of their male counterparts, or, you know,
32:01
people of color or whatever the case may be, people that are,
32:04
you know, over 40, you need to look at all those factors and at
32:09
least point it out to say, hey, barring some, you know,
32:13
documented reasons for this paid disparity, that's something you
32:17
need to address because it's it's a concern.
32:22
I'm kind of curious you, you mentioned that your, a lot of
32:25
your clients are, you know, from 50 to 500 employees And in, in
32:29
my mind, I would think especially as you get, you know,
32:32
100 plus employees, you're big, even smaller than that, you're
32:36
big enough to at least be able to afford your own HR person
32:41
internally. And as you get to 500 employees,
32:44
you've probably got a small department of people.
32:47
Absolutely. And so I'm curious why, when
32:51
they're big enough that they can afford to have their own
32:53
internal HR, do they contract with you?
32:57
Sure. So, so I think that's somewhat
33:00
dependent. The answer to that is somewhat
33:01
dependent upon the service. Even if you're 500 employees,
33:05
you may not have the need or choose to invest in somebody on
33:09
your team who has compensation expertise because it really is a
33:12
skill set that not every HR person has.
33:15
Pretty specific. Correct.
33:17
And and there's, you know, it's somewhat more analytical than
33:21
than some other aspects of human resources.
33:23
So sometimes it's just not an area of expertise that an
33:27
organization has. So we can, we can fill that and
33:31
and they don't need to have a full time staff person doing
33:33
that. So we can be the outsourced IT,
33:36
you know, compensation team for your organization.
33:39
So that's one way that we've, you know, kind of worked with
33:42
organizations. Another, you know, aspect is in
33:45
the, the search, the talent acquisition.
33:47
You may have a team, but if you're two people with 500
33:51
employees or three people, even you may not have the, the skills
33:55
or the time. Certainly talent talent
33:59
acquisition has become much more time consuming.
34:01
It's always been time consuming, but it's definitely and the
34:04
skills required to navigate the technology.
34:09
The the like I might do what we call post and pray, you know, I
34:14
post my position and pray that somebody applies for it, but
34:17
that's not the way that that you're going to acquire talent
34:20
these days. You know, really, if you're
34:22
actively trying to find somebody who is really not only just got
34:26
the skills that you need, but also going to be a fit for your
34:28
organization and, and really, you know, kind of push you
34:31
forward. You want somebody who is going
34:34
out to, you know, what we refer to as passive candidates.
34:38
They're not actively looking for a job, but we're going out to
34:41
them and bringing them into the position.
34:43
So that's a really different skill set.
34:46
And frankly, many HR professionals, it's just not
34:48
something that they like to do. You know, I, I kind of equated
34:52
to more of the sales aspect as an HR professional, even when I
34:56
first started, I've always considered myself to be a
34:59
salesperson for the organization.
35:00
That's part of what I have to do, right?
35:02
But many HR people, you know, they go into HR are thinking
35:06
they want to help people or they, you know, are more on the
35:10
regulatory event, so to speak. But it's today.
35:15
You really need to be active out there, networking, trying to
35:19
bring it, bring in the talent and tell the story as to why
35:22
somebody wants to work for your company.
35:23
That's not something that every organization has the time to do.
35:27
And again, you know, on the HR operations side, maybe they're
35:30
buying a new HRS system and they need help to implement that,
35:35
that, you know, those, the, the key with those is they need to
35:38
be set up correctly so that they can help you.
35:40
It's a terrific, you know, if you haven't already digitized
35:44
your HR processes, 'cause there's a lot of paperwork in HR
35:48
way more than is necessary in, in the aspects I think.
35:52
But, but if you're going to, you know, use technology effectively
35:57
and, and digitize that, you need to be really thoughtful about
36:01
how you're sitting there. Some people don't have the
36:03
bandwidth to do that. So and, and again, with the
36:06
training programs, those, you know, if you're doing, you have,
36:11
you know, 50 supervisors and they all need to be trained.
36:14
Do you have the bandwidth on your staff to develop the
36:17
program to go out and deliver the training?
36:19
Generally not. So that's that's why they use
36:23
our services. So there's, So what I'm hearing
36:25
you say is that there are so many different aspects of HR.
36:30
It's difficult if not impossible for the average company to be an
36:35
expert in all of those things. They can draw on your experience
36:42
across so many different companies, you've seen so many
36:45
different things, and you've had to tailor implementations and
36:51
solutions for each of these clients in different ways that
36:55
you've got this breadth of knowledge to pull from to be
36:58
able to help them and steer them in the right direction where you
37:01
know, yes, they're in HR, but they don't know about this
37:04
specific area. They don't know what to do.
37:05
They're stuck. Correct.
37:07
Then they need just and then they need.
37:09
Sometimes they just need an additional set of hands.
37:12
Yeah, right. To get to get a project done.
37:15
You know, you said something interesting that the talent
37:17
acquisition process has become a lot more time consuming.
37:21
And initially I thought that surprised me because, you know,
37:24
I hear people using, you know, a lot more AI to sift through
37:30
resumes and applicants and all that, and it's making the
37:33
process more efficient in that way.
37:36
But then I hear you talk about, hey, often times the best
37:41
strategy isn't just to look for people who are actively looking
37:44
for jobs, but it's to mine those people who are probably pretty
37:48
happy where they're at already and see if you can to draw them
37:51
in. And and am I correct and
37:54
assuming that is what takes so long?
37:56
Yeah, yes, because if you're not actively looking, maybe you
38:00
don't respond to my ad reach right away or, you know, maybe
38:03
it takes, you know, if you're in a you know, we, we really try to
38:07
take advantage of our industry knowledge and presence to build
38:11
networks within those industries so that when we have a client
38:14
that has a need, we can say, hey, yeah, I talked to somebody
38:17
a couple months ago and, and they might be a good fit for
38:20
this particular role. You know, it's building, it's,
38:23
it's about relationships, it's about relationships, it's about
38:26
networks. And it's about knowing you could
38:29
interview 10 human resource professionals who might all be
38:33
terrific human resources directors, but they're not all
38:38
going to fit in the same company because each, each organization
38:41
has a different culture, has a different, you know, mission,
38:44
values, those sorts of things. And it's, it's knowing what's
38:47
going to be the best fit for that organization.
38:48
That's that's the secret sauce, I think.
38:51
You know, I like to ask this question of a lot of CE OS and
38:54
business owners that I interview.
38:56
And I think you would have a particularly interesting
39:00
perspective on this because most of the the businesses I talked
39:04
to, they're still experiencing it.
39:06
It's very tight labor market, right?
39:08
It's hard to find good people. And then once you find them, you
39:11
know, how do you hold on to them?
39:13
And so I always like to ask business owners, C-Suite levels,
39:17
like, what is it you've tried? What, what have you found is
39:20
working on both the recruitment and the retention side.
39:23
And you being an expert in these areas in dealing with this
39:27
across so many different companies, I think would have a
39:29
particularly interesting perspective on, you know, is it,
39:33
you know, the, the pay, is it the benefits?
39:36
Is it and the training like what do you find are sort of the the
39:41
most important things to recruit and retain good folks?
39:45
It's yes and it's all of those things.
39:48
I and I, I, I think so as an HR professional, what's shifted
39:53
for, for me when I look back at, you know, trends over the years,
39:59
it used to be, you know, I always said people, people
40:01
don't, don't leave companies, they leave supervisors, right?
40:05
And that still tends to be true. That still tends to be true.
40:08
But really since COVID, the, the, the studies that have been
40:14
done show that people really are leaving for money.
40:17
Like years ago, we used to say that was like #5 on the list,
40:20
right, of things that you would leave a job for.
40:22
That's, that's not the case anymore.
40:24
And I think we we can't ignore the economics of the situation.
40:28
And the publicity around that has made people feel like I
40:31
should be making more money. You know, I just read an article
40:34
yesterday saying that, you know, particularly the younger
40:38
generations are feeling like they, they want to see more,
40:41
more in their compensation because they're still feeling
40:44
the pinch of, of, you know, economic changes and they're not
40:48
getting 9 and 10% adjustments like they were two years ago,
40:51
right? But they're like, well, what,
40:52
what are you know, what, what are you paying me now?
40:54
So there is definitely still a lot of pressure on compensation
40:59
benefits. I don't see as much.
41:01
But at the same time, right. It's like if it, if it's not, if
41:05
somebody takes away benefits to put it into compensation.
41:08
I don't, I, I can't imagine that you're going to have people
41:11
gone. Oh, yeah, that's OK, that's
41:12
fine. No, I'm not worried about that.
41:14
So it's as a, as a CEO, what I feel like is the, the trick is
41:21
to attract the talent that we need and offer as many, excuse
41:28
me, opportunities and options as we can, because not everybody
41:31
wants the same thing. Depending on where you are in
41:33
life. And I always say, sometimes, you
41:35
know, you have to, you have to pick what it is.
41:37
Sometimes you just need flexibility because you're a
41:40
young parent and you know the family needs that flexibility.
41:44
Sometimes it's all about the money because you're the
41:46
sobering or you just like, that's just your focus.
41:49
Like everybody's, everybody's got to pick what is what, what
41:53
they're looking for. So it's, it's about knowing what
41:55
your, what your offerings are and being able to best fit those
42:01
to the needs of the individuals that you, that you're trying to
42:04
attract. I myself, I will, you know, I'll
42:08
admit it's, it's a struggle because again, I try to make, I
42:12
try to have as much flexibility in both the total rewards that
42:16
we offer as well as the types of work that we can provide people.
42:21
I was interviewing an individual and I said to him, you know,
42:23
what's, what's your biggest challenge?
42:24
He was managing a large department and he said it's,
42:28
it's trying to give people enough of the work that they
42:32
want to do so that they'll do the work that I need them to do.
42:36
And I thought that is 100% what, what I, what I struggle with,
42:43
because we all have things that we like to do and things that we
42:46
don't like to do. And, and so, you know, as a, as
42:49
a leader, you want to give people opportunities to grow.
42:52
You want them to be challenged, you know, and then there's stuff
42:55
that you just need people to do because that's, that's what you,
42:59
that's what keeps you going as an organization, right?
43:01
There's, you know, behind it all.
43:03
I always say this is a for profit business, so you know,
43:08
not for profits are a little bit different, although they still
43:10
need resources to be able to survive and and and meet their
43:14
mission. But you know, we are here to to
43:19
make profit. And so there's sometimes things
43:21
that you just need to do. It's that it's that balance of
43:25
environment to like what you know, what's that equation?
43:28
It's a two way St. you know, meeting what employees need and
43:30
what you need as an employer. And that conversation, I think
43:34
always needs to be happening. How?
43:37
How do new clients find their way to you and Herbine?
43:40
Are you, do you guys actively market?
43:42
Is it all word of mouth? For many, many years it was word
43:46
of mouth chat was really, you know, among the only
43:53
organizations that was a full service HR consulting firm.
43:57
That has changed over the last, I would say particularly 5 to 10
44:00
years. We're, I think we're still
44:01
unique and that we offer the full breadth of services.
44:04
We can be like the single source solution for everything.
44:09
But the, but the competition has changed.
44:11
So we didn't really used to market.
44:13
It was very much word of mouth and we, and we still get a lot
44:16
of repeat business. You know, I'll, I'll do my
44:18
compensation analysis this year and two years from now I'll come
44:21
back and do it again. I, I need this position filled
44:25
and then I need another position filled in six months.
44:27
So there's a lot of recurring and repeat business, but a lot
44:30
of our project work, our interim work is, is definitely word of
44:34
mouth like, hey, Anthony, I know you, you said you really liked,
44:38
you know, this this person you worked with to maybe so it's the
44:41
networking piece. But we have for sure over the
44:45
last two years learned that we need to be much more focused on
44:48
external visibility marketing. So that's that's something we're
44:52
still working on. You know, what does that sales
44:56
sales process look like? How do we best, but I say to the
45:00
team every day, the, the, the best thing you can do from a
45:03
sales perspective is deliver the results that the client is
45:06
expecting because that, that's what really, you know, it's,
45:10
that's what it's all about. It's the relationship you have
45:13
with that client. It's the results that you're
45:14
providing them. If they feel that the service
45:17
that they're getting is valuable, they're going to be
45:19
willing to tell somebody else about it.
45:21
And that's, that's, that's what we have to rely on.
45:24
Yeah, word of mouth is incredibly powerful.
45:27
The the recommendation from a a friend, a trusted colleague is
45:30
going to carry a lot more weight than a a Facebook ad, right?
45:34
I just, I don't think in this business, this is, you know, we
45:37
want to be the, you know, you know, Herb, I know who wants to
45:40
be the trusted advisor for the business.
45:42
You can't be trusted if you've not, you know that involve
45:47
delivered results, you know that that sort of thing and you can't
45:50
that's tough to market. You want the name recognition so
45:53
that you know, you want people to know you're there and know
45:56
that you have the types of services you have.
45:59
But that relationship is going to be really important and
46:01
critical for for developing the longer term client, which is
46:06
what we want and what we have, thankfully.
46:08
For those people listening, what kind of company is a good fit
46:12
for Herbine? I I think about industry and
46:15
size is maybe a way to to categorize it.
46:18
Yeah. So I think the industries that I
46:20
mentioned, manufacturing, financial services, healthcare,
46:25
we do a lot of work with not for profits.
46:28
And in terms of size, I, I really, I think our sweet spot
46:32
is really the 200 to 500 in terms of, in terms of the HR
46:37
practice turbine as a whole, it might vary by practice area.
46:43
We also specialize in working with, again, family owned
46:47
businesses, closely held family owned businesses, which, which,
46:53
which is a really interesting niche.
46:54
To be honest. I, I enjoy it.
46:56
I enjoy working with, you know, business owners and family
46:59
members because there's a whole lot of messiness sometimes in
47:04
that and I think it's fun. So that's, that's and that's
47:10
across across her mind and practices.
47:12
We, we do a lot of work with family owned businesses and
47:14
family owned businesses. You have to keep in mind can be
47:17
our our largest family owned business is 3 billion and you
47:21
know the smallest is you know probably 5 million.
47:25
So, OK, that's helpful. I want to shift gears now a
47:28
little bit, Laurel. What's a serious challenge,
47:31
either personally or professionally, that you've had
47:33
to overcome? And maybe some of the lessons
47:36
that you learned coming out the other side.
47:41
I think I mentioned before that, you know, I, my family has had a
47:46
number of, you know, challenges with mental health and that's a,
47:51
you know, that's a hereditary, so, you know, my parents, my
47:55
grandparents and, and so I, I think that's a, that's a, you
48:06
know, both a challenge just in terms of the human aspect of it.
48:11
And I've also seen play out in the workforce, you know, the,
48:14
the challenges that mental health brings to employees.
48:18
It's probably one of the things that I'm most passionate about.
48:21
I'm going to, I'm actually rolled off, but it wasn't the
48:23
board of a local profit that provides mental health services
48:29
and, and employee assistance services actually as well.
48:32
And, and for me personally, the challenge there, you know, just
48:37
came from, you know, the, the personal aspects of that that
48:43
you need to overcome because you, you feel like when you,
48:45
when you, when you see people struggling like that, you sort
48:48
of feel like you're in an isolated situation and then
48:51
other people don't deal with that or that somehow makes you
48:54
less than. And while I don't, I'm not
49:00
sitting here saying I'm the bastion of mental health, but I
49:02
don't, but I don't have it diagnosed, you know, situation
49:07
where I, you know, that that I deal with, but I definitely have
49:12
had to overcome, you know, the difficulties and challenges that
49:16
my family has dealt with. And with that, with the impact
49:18
that that's had on me. And I think one of the the
49:22
situations as a woman in leadership in particular, is
49:25
that confidence is always something that I think women
49:28
leaders are more challenged by in my experience.
49:31
And so that imposter syndrome, things of that nature have
49:36
certainly been a challenge for me.
49:38
I can't say that I fully overcome them because I think
49:41
that that's an everyday challenge.
49:46
But you know, I was my, my dad was in the military and Navy and
49:52
he like even when I was a little kid, he would always say to me,
49:55
just look like, you know, where you're going and what you're
49:58
doing and people will follow. And I always kind of kept it in
50:02
the back of my head because it really is kind of true.
50:05
Whether that's good or bad, I'm not sure people should, but but
50:08
I, I have taken that to heart. It's the old act, act it, you
50:12
know, just just, you know, fake it till you make it type of
50:15
thing. But every every day, there's
50:18
challenges with that. Are there anything in particular
50:22
that you found helpful in helping your family members or
50:28
helping yourself as you're helping your family members deal
50:31
with some of the mental health struggles?
50:34
I think consistency and you know, I, I, I, I think it's
50:41
probably similar to what anybody needs is consistency,
50:46
accountability and support. You know, you, you people have
50:52
to be responsible for their decisions and their actions.
50:55
You can be there to, to support if, if things, you know, don't
51:01
go as planned. But at a lot of times it's
51:06
frankly just listening, which you know, isn't that one of the
51:09
hardest things? Thanks to, at least for me,
51:11
sometimes time we're all busy. So it's just sometimes for me,
51:16
it's the patience and the time to slow down enough to pay
51:21
attention to those things. How about the imposter syndrome
51:25
component? So this is 1.
51:27
I don't think it's talked about enough, particularly with
51:32
business leaders. You know, people just, they sort
51:34
of look at you and they think, oh, you're confident like you,
51:37
you've kind of got this figured out.
51:39
Like you, you're just wired for this and that, you know, maybe
51:42
partly because of your dad's coaching.
51:44
Like that's how you appear on the outside.
51:46
But you know, inside you've got all these doubts and these
51:49
insecurities and who am I? Like, can I really do this?
51:52
And this is this going to work? If you found anything that kind
51:56
of helps that negative chatter in your voice, I don't know
52:00
meditation or any like books or podcasts that you listen to, any
52:03
support groups that you've been part of and anything like that.
52:07
I do love to read and I do think that any, any time, regardless
52:13
of whether you're reading or you're listening to a podcast or
52:15
you're doing, you're learning. Anytime you're learning that
52:18
automatically feeds your your self esteem and, and I can't
52:23
remember where I read about that, but like there's
52:25
scientific backing to that. So I try to remember I may not
52:31
like I don't need to and nor do I know everything about
52:34
everything, but I know I know what I know and that may be
52:38
different than what somebody else knows.
52:40
And So what I bring to the table is valuable.
52:42
So it's, it's kind of in my head playing that, you know, and I
52:47
don't need to know everything, right.
52:49
There's, you know, I don't need to be the smartest person in the
52:52
room to be able to add value. And that's what I have to remind
52:55
myself about. But I, I think it's always good
53:00
to be curious, good to be learning.
53:02
And again, that that opportunity, even if it's an
53:04
hour webinar on a topic, you know, that you're interested in,
53:09
it gives you self-confidence. It gives you a boost to say,
53:12
yeah, learn that. Yeah.
53:14
And and that's, you know, one of the things that that I try to
53:19
remember, you know, sometimes, sometimes I'll make an active
53:22
decision to be like, you know what, I'm clearly having a rough
53:24
week. I think I just need to take an
53:26
hour pause for myself to go learn something because it
53:30
because it helps me. Any places you'd like to go for
53:33
that learning? Any specific categories of books
53:36
or podcasts or webinars? I'm, I'm very opportunistic so I
53:40
don't know about you, but I get like 50,000 emails a day.
53:43
I feel like from all different kinds of, you know, resources
53:46
and so I'm, I, I will literally sometimes go and be like, well,
53:50
let me pick this one and see if it's and sometimes that's been
53:53
great and sometimes not so much. So no, I don't.
53:57
I don't have AI, don't have a specific place that I go.
54:01
Laura, I've just got one more question for you here today.
54:03
But before I ask it, I want to do 2 things for those listening.
54:06
If you like today's content, please hit the likes, Share, or
54:10
Subscribe button on your favorite podcast app.
54:12
I also want to tell people the best way to get in touch with
54:15
you. Laurel, what would that be?
54:16
That would be my e-mail LECLINE at herbine.com.
54:26
Herbin BEIN. And we'll put that in the show
54:29
notes, but I'm glad you spelled that out.
54:31
Thank you. So last question for you, I'm
54:33
kind of curious, what are the big changes that you see coming
54:36
in your industry in the next few years?
54:38
How do you see things evolving? Well, I think like most
54:42
industries that we see, technology is going to have a
54:45
significant impact. It already is.
54:47
AI, you mentioned that in terms of resume screening, I think AI
54:51
is going to have a huge impact on all businesses.
54:54
But certainly HR I'm not concerned that it's going to
54:59
take over or replace or anything like that because I still think
55:02
that there's that human intervention that needs to
55:05
happen. Judgement, I don't, I don't
55:07
foresee AI taking the place of human judgement anytime in the
55:11
future. But I do think there's an
55:12
opportunity for HR to capitalize on the aspects of AI that we can
55:18
use effectively to, to do those tasks and those things that
55:22
don't really add a lot of value or don't need the human touch,
55:26
the human interaction. So that's and just technology in
55:29
general, how we use it, how we can optimize it to, to be more
55:32
efficient because as I said, there's a ton of paperwork in HR
55:36
that is not adding value to any organization, but it has to be
55:39
done in many respects from a regulatory standpoint and
55:42
another standpoint. So, so that's a, that's a huge,
55:46
and I think just the number of generations in the workforce and
55:51
what they want and what their perspectives are and how they
55:55
were raised and all, all of those facets and that employee
55:59
engagement piece helping companies to continuously be
56:02
able to change and grow and, and evolve as those needs change
56:07
based on generations, based on changes in society.
56:11
I mean, look at the reactions and the changes we still are
56:14
dealing with from COVID. I don't think that's the last
56:18
event like that that's going to happen, you know, for better or
56:20
for worse. And so I think just being able
56:24
to be resilient enough to again, focusing on that positive and
56:28
productive work environment, that's, that's really what HR is
56:31
going to be challenged with. You use that word again,
56:35
opportunity when talking about AI and I, I think again that
56:39
that shows a lot about your personality and how you approach
56:42
problems. I'm curious, as you talk to your
56:46
peers in the HR space, do they look at HR?
56:49
Do they look at AI as an opportunity or do they look at
56:52
it as a threat? I think most of them, in my
56:56
experience, it's an opportunity. I think they're, I think most
56:59
people are pretty excited about the, the opportunity to use it
57:02
'cause I mean, frankly, there's a lot of tasks that we do that
57:06
really just are not particularly fun.
57:08
So if we can, if we can find a way to have AI help with some of
57:12
those repetitive types of things or, or tasks where you don't
57:17
need that human judgement, I think that's a awesome
57:20
opportunity for us, yeah. That's great.
57:23
Well, Laura, I want to be the first to thank you for sharing
57:26
both your time and your story with us today.
57:29
I really do my. Shadow.
57:31
I I think it was great how we just rolled with the punches on
57:34
that we made it work today. Well, thank you so much,
57:37
Anthony. I really appreciate it.
57:39
I've enjoyed talking with you and I appreciate the
57:41
opportunity. Absolutely, folks.
57:43
That's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
57:46
Thanks for learning with us today.