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SMNTY Classics: The Legacy of the Blair Witch Project · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: And Samantha.
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: And welcome to Stuff I Never Told You, a production
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. And as we record this, we are in
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: the spooky season. I've already started my huge list of
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: horror movies I try to get through every spooky season.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: which means I just recently watched The Blair Witch Project.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Have you seen the Gen Zers knocking it, saying that
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: they can't believe this was so scary?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: No, but I mean, that makes sense. I showed it to.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Friend of the show, friend in real life, Alex Williams.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: And he had never seen it. This was right before
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: the pandemic. This was literally, I think, the last Hangout
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: I had before the pandemic. And he was like, what
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: is this? And he's about our age.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: I'm surprised because he usually appreciates like the artistic look
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: or like a differentiation. But I guess maybe if you
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: hadn't seen it originally in its context, it becomes like, what?
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Which is exactly what the Gen Zers are like. Wait, huh? Yeah.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Well, and we talked about it in this episode, but
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: just the whole internet campaign behind it was really new
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: and it was scary.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: We were all like, is this a real? Is this true?
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: The found footage really began there.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: We talked about that. It's true. It's true. So please
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: enjoy this classic episode.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: And Samantha.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff I Never Told You, a production
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: And welcome. So today we are backtracking a bit because
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I feel like we bypassed Halloween, which is one of
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: our favorite holidays. I mean, the entire crew of Sminty,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I think, really loves Halloween. I know Christina.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: I'm sure she would tell me otherwise, is a pretty
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: big fan, as well as Joey. Don't know about Maya.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: We need to ask her about that. But we're all
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: pretty big fans of Halloween, and I feel like we
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: just kind of slip by with doing very minimal, which
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: is not like us. And, you know, you might not know.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know, because people don't keep up with this.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: We do this accidentally a lot. We love doing horror
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: movies and classics as a way of both escaping, and
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: especially for this traumatic week, Y'all, it's election time and
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: it's very traumatizing. Like, I think we've all lost sleep
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: and are losing sleep. And again, extending this horror time
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: for us because I feel like we missed a lot.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: And if you haven't heard, again, this is where I
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: was like, we sometimes do this accidentally. Oftentimes we do
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: this accidentally. But this, like, we hit the anniversary of
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: for the Blair Witch Project. It is the 25th anniversary
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: for this film. Everybody feels old, right? Anybody who's watched this,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: our millennial crew, you know what I'm saying. What's so funny,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: I just saw a TikTok video of someone asking, can
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: someone who was there for the original premiere of Scream
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: tell us what it's like? And everybody just, like, the
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: comments were like, how dare you?
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Kind of like how you had mentioned you would love
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: to have been born and been to the screen. I
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: asked people about it too. And now people are asking
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: about our experiences with that. And I'm like, that's rude.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: I would love to talk about my experience. I'm sure
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: you would.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: You were young though.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: How old were you? I was quite young. I actually
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: was forbidden from watching The Blair Witch Project. But my
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: rebellion as a child was I would watch horror movies.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: So I did watch it. and my parents always caught
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: me because my imagination goes wild and I was terrified.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: I was terrified. They were like, what did you do?
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: You watched the Blair Witch Project. But yeah, I was
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: pretty young for it.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: So this came out in 1999. I'm pretty sure I
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: watched it. I didn't go to the theater for it
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: because theater was not a thing that we'd often go to.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: My crew of people, we would go and hang out
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: at Parking lots.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: And talk to people. It was weird. We were all teenagers.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: This is what I've discovered. But we did watch it
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: on DVD at friends' houses. We definitely did this. I
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: can't remember being scared. It was a phenomenon. So, with
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: all that to say, I will say it was a
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: phenomenon for this reason. The first being a found footage. So,
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: though it wasn't the first found footage horror movie, the
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: first was actually... kind of given to the 1980 movie
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Cannibal Holocaust, which is an Italian horror movie, which apparently
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: they tried to sue the filmmakers of the Blair Witch Project,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: saying that they were copying them. And then they came back.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: We're like, just kidding. Go watch our movie. If you
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: liked Blair Witch, you'll also like Cannibal Holocaust. So have
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: you seen that movie?
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I have watched it.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: I can't wait to talk about this because I have
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: plumbed the depths of found footage. I know it's not
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: for everyone, but I have seen what there is to
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: be seen.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I have seen that, yeah.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Well, but then there's even another movie that's dated even
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: further back, 1961, called The Connection, which was an arthouse
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: film by Shirley Clark. And they're saying that's the beginning
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: of that format. Have you seen that one?
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: I have not seen that one.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Assignment. There's also a 1980 mockumentary from England that's also
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: being credited as being kind of like a found footage thing.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: But mockumentary is a different thing in its own, which
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: we should talk about in itself because we love a
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: good mockumentary. in this house but anyway so even though
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: it wasn't necessarily the first this movie put found footage
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: horror film on the map like they created a genre
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: um and yeah the technique technique is used quite often
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: these days we know there's all the paranormal which took
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: me forever to figure out all of them were connected
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: killer alert sorry yeah Is that okay? Just for people.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Just in case. But again, this was
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: the film of like one of the first of its kind.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: And it made a huge mark within the industry. And
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: from then on, of course, we've had so many more
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: and continue to do so. And it's made itself international.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Like I watched, you know, the Asylum of Gangnam, I
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: believe is the way it was called. And that's the
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Korean horror movie that's really good and has some really
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: big actors in there that I forgot about. But anyway, yes,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: the Blair Witch Project was written and directed by Daniel
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Myrick and Eduardo Sanchez. The two came up with the
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: story of the Blair Witch several years before they started
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: the actual project and filming, creating a 35-page screenplay, which
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: also allowed for all of the actors to improv. Pretty much.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And during this time, they made an ad in the
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: back of the backstage magazine for casting. And that's where
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: they found Heather Donahue, Joshua Leonard, and Michael Williams, who
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: were the three main characters. And damn, it made some money.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Though it exceeded the budget by 10. So the original
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: intention was like $ 35, 000 to $ 60, 000 for its budget. And
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: then after post-editing stuff, It went from $ 200, 000 to $ 750, 000
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: was the amount. But they made around $ 250 million worldwide.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: And it's still on top 100 lists as some of
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: the best horror movies to date. 25 years later. Yeah.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: And, you know, if anyone in the industry will know,
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: horror is often your genre you get into. Because you
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: can make a lot of money when you're beginning. But
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: found footage, like paranormal activity, cost like hardly anything to make.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: And it made a ton of money. However, as I'm
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: sure we'll get into later, there's been a lot of
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: controversy about the payment of the actors and who got
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: the money.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Because it was so successful.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: And I honestly don't know if I've ever seen any
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: of them in anything else since then.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: A lot of actors who do found footage, because those
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: are their names. You use your real name often in
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: found footage. I mean, like I said, it's how you
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: get started in a lot of ways, in a lot
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: of industries. There are some found footage movies that I've
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: seen someone in and they have gone on to be
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: in something bigger. But generally, it kind of stays in
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: that realm.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: VHS.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: VHS.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: That like that is didn't people turn in as a
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: contest their found footage stuff and they just did different stories.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Isn't that that one? Is that that one that I'm
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: thinking of?
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure that is an Atlanta based.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: It was. I think it still is. Atlanta based movie.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: It might be like that, but I think it is
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: like they get different film. They get different film people
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: and are like, you go write a story, you go
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: write a story, you go write a story. I don't
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: know if it's a competition, but I could be.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, for some reason I saw that. They sent in
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: things and they picked out certain ones and then they
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: spliced them into one movie. So it was different tales
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: in one. Because in like the whole premise, they go
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: into a house and they find all these different movies.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Which is a brilliant project and really cheap to make.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: If you have someone else making it, turn it in.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Again.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: But anyway, yeah. So, of course, the Blair Witch Project
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: in itself has become a franchise with several sequels. I've
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: never seen any of them. I'm assuming you've seen all
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen all of them. I've seen the second one.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: And I was disappointed with the second one. I'm sure
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: most people were. No shade to anyone involved. But because
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: it wasn't really a found footage, which is fine, but
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: it just felt so different than.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: And then it was like the Book of Shadows.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Was like a witchcraft thing, but it wasn't related to
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: the witch necessarily.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, really?
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: And then there was like a daughter plot. There was
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: a lot going on in it.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I know nothing. I just know this one.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: And I could see why your parents wouldn't let you
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: watch it, especially for me, like as I was coming
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: into my Christian era, really, really hardcore, like witches in itself,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: like naughty. So we'll talk a little bit about that later.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: But yes, as we do, we're going to start with
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: the plot. I'm just going to run through these and
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: interject at any point because I'm sure you're going to
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: be like, no, but you missed this. You might tell
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: me afterwards, so. So we have the three main characters
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: who are off to seek the truth about the legend
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: of the Blair Witch. College students Heather, Josh, and Mike
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: travel together to the woods of Burkittsville, Maryland, in search
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: of the creature and the legends it left behind. In
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: the town, they found out about the hermit Rustin Parr, which,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: by the way, when I was watching this again, I realized, like,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: these actors that they found to do the story, there's
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: that one with the mother and the child, and the child's, like,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: freaking out. I'm like, how did they get the kid
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: to do this? Because kids are not that good of
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: an actor, especially for, like, found footage, you know, like,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: types of movies. And that child really was like, stop talking.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: The child could have just really been like, stop. He's
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: not freaked out, just annoyed.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Just annoyed, and it just happened to land perfectly. Because
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: I was like, what? Anyway, so back to the hermit,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Rustin Parr. And then he turned out that he murdered
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: children in the forest, the story goes, that they learned.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: He would kill them in pairs in basements after he
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: kidnapped several of them, putting one child in the corner
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: facing the walls while he's killing the other one. So
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: that's the legend that we remember today. Then they learn
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: of other horrible murders, including the ritualistic murders of five
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: men in the woods. And then about the student who
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: went missing but came back, talking about seeing a woman
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: whose feet didn't touch the ground. So many more horror stories.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: They collected all this data, went into the forest, of course.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: And as they travel in the woods with Heather in
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: the lead, with only a map and a compass and,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: of course, their cameras and supplies, They start encountering strange occurrences,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: including finding stacked rocks or cairns in places like graveyards.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: And then they hear snapping of sticks in the middle
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: of the night and other weird noises, all those things.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: So as they try to go back to their car,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: they realize they are lost and can't seem to make
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: their way back. And as they try to return, they
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: continue to come across odd and strange things, such as
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: new cairns built around their tents, noises and sounds around
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: their tents, missing items, and then even, like, pop-up of
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: wooden dolls, I guess you would say they are, or
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: at least figurines that are tied up in trees. Yeah. Which,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: by the way, I think haunted most people after the
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: fact that whenever they saw these, they're like, it's a ghost! Oh. Oh, yes.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I could go into it, but I won't.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Personal experience is found. And then eventually they realize they
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: can't find the map and start to panic about their
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: situation and argue, of course. As they slowly start to
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: come apart, they find out that Mike... had found the map,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: kicked it, and thrown it into the water, into the creek,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I think, saying that it wasn't useful anyway. This was,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: of course, all of them arguing, and he's just sitting
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: there being like, be cool, guys, be cool. But during
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: another frightful night of weird noises, including hearing children's laughter,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: rustling and shaking of their tent, they run away, awaiting
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: for the daylight to return again. When they come back
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: to the tent, they notice more disturbing things, including slime
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: all over Josh's equipment. Which kind of landed in, like,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: is this a Ghostbusters moment? Because no one really talked
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: about that as an issue, I feel like, beforehand. Did
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: I miss that part?
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: I think it was.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: I don't think you missed it. I always assumed it meant, like,
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: he was being marked for... You're next. Also, that part
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: where they shake the tent, you could see children's hands. Yes, yes.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: It's very school-ish.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: And as you said, if he's Mark, soon Josh disappears.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: And though Mark and Heather try to find him, they
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: aren't successful. Heather finds a new bundle of twigs, which
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: have been, by the way, happening throughout the trip, just
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: finding bundles. But with some of what we assume is
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Josh's shirt, which took me a while to figure out.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay. It's Josh's shirt. a tongue, teeth, blood,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: and other appendages, which you have to, like, pause to
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: stare at because you're like, what's happening? Because it's just
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: in a bloody mess. Which she screams and, like, freaks
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: out about, but doesn't tell Mike, which I'm like, see,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: have they not learned?
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Okay, whatever.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: So that night, Heather makes the infamous apology in the
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: video to her and the other's parents about taking them
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: into the woods. That has been parodied a lot. A lot.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: My favorite is Mad TV. It's got a really good one.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: That night, after hearing the screams of what they assume
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: is Josh, they run to find him or they end
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: up at this abandoned house in the woods. They are
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: like all over the place. And soon they go down
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: to the basement thinking that's where they hear him. And
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: then we know that there's we hear the screaming of Heather.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: And then she drops the camera and it points towards
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: the corner where we see Mike. We are assuming Mike
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: is standing facing the wall. And then the camera cuts off.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: So all of this is supposed to happen because in
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: 1994 they went to do a documentary there. I forgot
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: to state the year. But that's how it is. Very ominous.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: The end. One of the things that I was trying
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: to do, because a lot of the movies like that,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: they have hidden things, like shadows or figures, and I
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: just never saw anything. Did I miss something? Did you
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: find those? Or are those people talking about any of that?
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: One thing I find interesting, and this has never, ever,
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: ever been confirmed before. I don't think it's true, personally.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: But for a lot of people, including me, I remember
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: seeing the feet. At the end, like hovering.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I think I remember people talking about it, but I've
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: never seen this.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: I don't think it exists. I really don't. But I
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: remember it and it scared me so badly. And I
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: think that's part of the power of like imagination. And suggestion.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: And suggestion.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Because there was a rumor for a long time that
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: there was this like lost cut of the Blair Witch
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Project and that you see the feet in it. And
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: I honestly don't think it exists at all. But one
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: of the reasons this was so successful is it was
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: coming out in the time of the internet. It had
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: an online campaign where you could go to the website
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: and you could click on images and try to find things.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: And it really marketed itself as a documentary and people
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: believed it was a documentary.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: And so people.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: leaned into this idea of this lost cut where you
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: actually could see the witch's feet. But I'm so certain
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: it doesn't exist, but I remember it.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: So I know the ad campaign was something that was
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: new as well because they actually had missing posters for Heather, Mike,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: and Josh. And they had all these things, like the
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: site you were talking about and how they tried to
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: make it so completely new and as if it was
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: found footage. Again, this really, really worked well for what
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: they did. And not having to use CGI for anything, right?
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: like clips of ghosts or that is, is a feat
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: in itself. Like the way they did this in such
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: a purist form. And of course the equipment that they use,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: all of that was such, such a new way of
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: doing horror movie because we, the people were used to
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Halloween and a fair on Elm street and all those
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: things that they were not expecting this.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: No, no. And it was really scary.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: Like, I think now people who watch it are kind
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: of like, oh, it's one of those things where technologically
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: things have just changed. Even though I think you could
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: make a Blair Witch with their technology. But I remember
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: watching this in... Because I grew up like you in
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: the woods in northern Georgia. And I watched it with
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: my friends when we were in her basement. And she
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: had just windows all around her. And she got so scared.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: People were crying. Because it was so new. You were like....
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: What's in these woods?
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Because noises happen. Like, that's inevitable when you're in the woods. Like,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: it's so easy to have that. And yeah, and also,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: in each town, we have legends. We have stories. We
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: have abandoned buildings that people will talk about. We have like,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: none of them, most of them are not true. Like
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: people that they don't exist, but we have the legends.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: And so it plays on your mind. That's what you know.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: You know, people like to go in the middle of
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: the night and do spooky things. Like all of those things.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: We went in the middle of the night to an
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: abandoned house trying to figure out if it was haunted.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: We were really dumb.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: I did that too. But also, I'm pretty sure, I
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: could be wrong, I'm pretty sure this is partially inspired
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: by the same witch that inspired The Conjuring, the first one.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: There is a real witch that is legally in the record.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: It's obviously not completely her, but I think it was
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: in part inspired by her.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: And with that, I thought we would do something... a
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: little bit different than what we usually do when we
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: talk about films, because usually we can do themes and
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: all these things. And I feel like we could do that.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: But instead, I thought we would go a different direction
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: and talk about the significance of this film, as well
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: as like the concept back and forth about whether this
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: is feminist or not feminist. There's also a small conversation
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: about being queer. I didn't jump into this. I will
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: say that because I was like, Maybe not the topic
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: for this time around. We'll come in. Because we also
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: have a lot of opinions. You have a lot of.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: Opinions about this movie.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: And I know you are ready. Again, like I said,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: articles have popped up on how this movie could be
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: feminist for a few reasons. And also how it could
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: be anti-feminist. I saw more of that today. than the
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: feminist parts. And I think, like, it's interesting to have
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: this conversation because when it comes to horror movies, we
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: don't talk a lot about it. We hadn't talked a
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: lot about it until recently. More and more and more. Like,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: this is problematic. Why do people think this way? But
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: for this film in itself, because it's, again, a different
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: type of film to me. So let's just go ahead
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: and hop into it. Some of the feminist views that
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I have both read and I've also felt myself because
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: you and I talked a little bit about this. A
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: lot of the articles talked about the fact that this
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: film is not necessarily filmed in a male gaze, which
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: is not typical, especially during this time frame for horror movies. Yeah.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I was thinking about this after you brought
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: it up. I have seen a lot of found footage.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: And one of the difficulties with the found footage movie
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: is you have to give a reason why. Why are
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: they filming? Why do they keep filming? is pretty clear
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: and later devolves into like, and I'm sure we'll talk
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: about this more, ambitions of women. But that has been
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: in a lot of the found footage that I've seen
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: is the break is when women are the ones who
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: are like largely controlling the found footage leading the project,
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: it feels much less sexualized than when men, the characters
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: or whoever are running the camera then it feels much
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: more sexualized. It's almost always more of a professional, this
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: is a thing I'm working on, this is a job
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: that I have or whatever that I care about, as
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: opposed to when men are the ones behind the camera.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: It does feel much more sexualized. But yes, in general,
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: horror movies do have a very long history. of sexualizing
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: women and being filmed from the male gaze. And this
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: really was not that at all. Right.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Which is surprising because it was directed and written by men.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: And as much of the horror genre depicts women as
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: sexualized victims, you know, having sex in case you're killed.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: We know this. Or virgin heroes, the only people who
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: can really save those are those who are pure and chaste. Or...
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: the Virgin Mary figure type of conversation. The Blair Witch Project,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: for its characters, really never uses this as a plot device.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Now we're going to talk about the villains in a bit,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: but for its character in itself, they don't. And also
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: there's no real sexual abuse or sexual scenes that are
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: needed to push the narrative forward, which I really found
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: that interesting because, you know, usually all of them have
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: some type of story. Yes. of why some women are
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: really just angry. Yes. Yes. Or, like.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: Like, the woman is dating, they're dating, and that's part
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: of the story.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: But in this instance, that was not the case.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Right. Again, I think that was one of the things
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: you and I talked about before when we were talking
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: about doing this movie. It's like, even more rare, they
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: kept the relationship of the three main characters platonic. There
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: was no indication at any point in time that there
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: were any attractions or jealousy there. like, jealousy and, like, power, like,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: wanted to take over or control or blame the others
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: for the situation, sure, but not sexual relationship powers, like,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: more dynamic. So I thought that was really a different take, especially, again,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: during this time where we see this as a constant, like,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: don't believe my wife, you know, type of moments. Yeah.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: And, you know, also they're, you know, sharing tents and
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: scared and all that stuff, and it just never.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: It never even.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: feels like they're thinking about going that way, which I wonder, as,
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: you know, found footage, how it works. As you said,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: there's this, like, bare outline of a script, and it's like,
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: get to these points today. I wonder how much of
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: that the actors were kind of just like, I'm not
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: feeling it. Right.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: We're just going on with it. We don't know each
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: other like that. Let's move on.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Which, again, you would think could be an easy plot point.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: But with all of that, there are many who have
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: felt like stereotypes, especially when it comes to the women villains,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: being deranged or vengeful, one-dimensional characters, that still existed in
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: this movie. Of course, this could be the conversation that
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: it was a really short film. Yeah.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: It was a short film.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: It was a really short film. I think they filmed
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: 85 hours and cut it down to, like, what, an
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: hour and a half?
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Like 90, yeah, yeah.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: So, like, it was, like, a lot of stuff that
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: they did, and then cutting and editing it down, they're like, okay,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: we just want the actions and the creepy moments, not
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: the backstory. Which would be, like, that could have been
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: what they were trying to do with the sequels. It
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: just didn't do well. Is that what they were trying
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: to do with the sequels?
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Maybe.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I've heard there's a new one coming out.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I think I have heard that, too. Yeah.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: That's why the actors, I mean, for many reasons, they
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: should get paid. But they're like, hey, remember us.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Right. I mean, they could go back and make an
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: extended cut today. Like, pretend like it was there with this.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Because they don't need more technology, honestly.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: If they wanted to make a movie, just take the
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: original and pretend like there's an extended cut that's missing.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Clearly, a bunch of us think it already exists.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Anyway, so here's a little bit from the McGillDaily.com.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: They were writing about this, and they say, praise for
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: the Blair Witch Project, however, does not discount the trope
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: of portraying women as the deranged antagonist in horror, which
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: needs to be addressed in order to continue enjoying the genre.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: The Blair Witch could be observed as being a villain
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: without motive. No background is given to the reason behind
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: her evil, nor is Ellie Kedward's character developed beyond witchcraft,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: which is the witch, which I don't remember her name
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: being mentioned, but I think I just bypassed that. They
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: do mention her though, right? She's the one that's the
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: floating one?
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: I think so, yeah.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: OK, so it goes on. This could be attributed to
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: shallow characterization wherein she lacks a complex and multifaceted personality. Moreover,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: it perpetuates the association of women to witchcraft wherein they
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: were believed to be, quote, more prone to diabolical possession
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: and essentially imperfect following the Black Death. So this is
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: a whole article in which they were talking about witches
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: in general and how they are seen as evil. devil-worshipping
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: child killers with no reason behind other than power and
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: greed and a lust for the devil. Which, yeah, I honestly,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: because of the way it ended, it seemed less about
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: the witch and more about the ghost of Rustin Parr.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Because there's so many stories that they attributed, like, so
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: many things. Of course, I don't know, was it implied
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: that Rustin Parr was possessed by the witch to kill
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: these children?
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: I think that's one interpretation. I always interpreted it as.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: There's just something, there's been a lot of bad things
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: that happened in these.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Woods, and people were blaming the witch.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: And she may or may not have had something to
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: do with it, but... People were, I think, blaming the witch.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: The witch. Okay. Because I was like, the way the
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: two died seemingly seems like a.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a mirror. The Rustin Parr story, more so
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: than the witch story. But all that to say is, yeah,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: that is one of the things they continued with. But again,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: I would sit to argue, and you know, you know us.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: We love talking about how infamously bad the takes on
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: women villains are in horror movies, or why it seems like, obviously,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: there's a sexist reason for it. But like the fact
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: that it again was a 90 minute movie and they
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: just wanted to base it on them and their experience
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: without bringing in a secondary story. Too much of a
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: secondary story. Like literally the first 15 minutes was in
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: the town. Yeah. And the rest was them in the woods.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: So I think that had more to do with how
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: they wanted to tell the story more so than characterizing
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: the villain. I don't know. That's just an opinion, though.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: I think so. I think there's certainly this argument to
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: be made. But I would also say we could add
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: more to it in that it was a legend. Like
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: you said, a lot of these small towns, ours included,
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: have those legends. And we don't hear beyond that. And
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: that is all. you know. And they were going into
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: the woods, that was their whole point of this documentary,
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: was they were going to find out, like, is there
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: something there? And I even saw a lot of recent
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: articles about, like, the Blair Witch was a bellwether, on
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: technology and the dangers of technology, but them being so,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: and especially Heather, but them being so confident and not
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: respecting even the woods necessarily, that I feel like When
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: you see them deteriorate while they're lost, that's, to me,
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: the true horror of it. And we do know through
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: so many horror movies the negativity that makes everything worse
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: if there is a witch or whatever.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: But to me, she feels like.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: Almost they heard this legend and made it real, if that.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Makes sense to themselves. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And going with that,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: so there's also the idea that the main character, who
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: was a woman being in charge, although that was a
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: great step up, like, yeah, she's being assertive and taking
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: charge and blah, blah, blah. her mishandling of the situation
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: ended up being their demise. So it was a woman's
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: fault because she was not willing to let go of
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: her ambitions. Like, she would not stop filming. They were
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: really irritated by that. But all the other things. So
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: here's a bit from a paper written by Denica McDonald.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I believe they wrote this for a school in Ireland.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: They had a lot of thoughts about this type of
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: conversation for women. It was called for, like, Americana, which
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: was interesting.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: But.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: McDonald wrote, both the witch and the protagonist in the
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Blair Witch Project overstep their boundaries in a world that
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: does not accept such trespasses. The witch, by the very
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: fact that she has dared to be a witch and
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: in so doing reject norms of society and the protagonist
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: because she investigates this transgression. Do not go downstairs, do
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: not go into the woods, do not talk to strangers,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: and do not open the door when you are alone
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: are reoccurring warnings in the horror genre. Yet these warnings
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: also bleed into real psychological and sociological lessons. Do not trespass,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: cross gender boundaries, or stray from social norms. Curbing curiosity
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: has become a horror film tradition. We learn, adopt, and
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: agree that curiosity is a dangerous notion. It is a
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: quality that needs to be controlled for the alternative lack
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: of control is dangerous and undesirable. So she's going all
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: over this. Like, no, this is why she is the downfall.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: And so is the witch. But they continue. In the
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Blair Witch Project, it is Heather Donahue's curiosity to learn
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: which leads her to the woods outside of Burkittsville. Notably,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: when all of these women endeavor to see, they are
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: punished for their trespasses into temptation. Once you've seen, you
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: must die a gruesome death, or so is the underlying
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: message of the contemporary horror film. The forbidden once seen
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: cannot be unseen. Seeing, learning, and knowledge are a masculine prerogative.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: They belong to the realm of public space which men
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: occupy and are free to move within. Women who violate
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: this rule are dangerous and threatening.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: We're still talking about this today. about ambitious women and
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: how we punish them. And there's, I mean, certainly she,
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: she did have this passion. She really wanted to get
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: this project done. But I find that so often where
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: if it's the, if it was reversed and it was
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: a man doing it, we'd be like, he was just
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: trying to get the truth. But with her, we're like,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: She should have known better. She didn't know anything. And
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of instances in the movie where she was.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: She was trying to get them out, and clearly the
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: woods is not going to help them out. She's making
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: these logical decisions. Yes, it was her project. Yes, she
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: did not want to leave, and they really wanted to.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying she doesn't have some share of the blame,
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: but it is that punishing of... oh, she's this ambitious
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: woman and look what it got her.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, let's say that curious woman who stepped out
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: of her role, so therefore she deserved to die. Anyone
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: who supports her deserves to die with her. It's that conversation.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: And it's an interesting conversation. We will hold, I will
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: hold to the fact, however, that A, Mike was really
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: the problem. Why would you throw away the map And
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: then also try to gaslight them into thinking that it just,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: that was one of them. Like, instead of stepping up immediately,
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: he waited for a couple of days for them to, like,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: come to a point of almost, like, ending everything. You know,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: they were like, no! Like, yelling at each other. And
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: he's like, all right, fine, I did it. And then saying...
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: He laughed, yeah. It didn't matter anyway. We couldn't use
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: this anyway. It wasn't helping us anyway. Blaming her.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Saying that she had the wrong thing, essentially. Same thing
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: with the compass. There's a back and forth about the compass.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: And they're like, are you reading this right? Are you
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: doing this right? The entire time. Yes. Yes.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: And it's made clear, whether you want to believe it
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: or not, I choose to believe it. It's made clear
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: she actually is a knowledgeable hiker. She says she goes hiking.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: That was her hobby. I believe that she knew. I
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: think the woods were messing with them.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But they, yeah, they just.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: kept pushing back and doubting her. And to an extent,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: it's fair if the woods are... Yeah, to an extent
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: it is. But especially Mike. And I think it's also interesting,
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: going back to the technology bit, because he was a
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: new member.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: They'd never worked with him before.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Right, they'd just met him.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Josh and Heather had worked together before. And I
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: think that kind of, like, when you get a crew
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: together and you don't know about that, like, new member
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: and how they're going to turn out, I think that
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: was one of the pieces of what just broke apart
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: the whole thing. But I agree.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: I think it was Mike.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: I blame him. It's Mike's fault.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: But also the weak one of this bunch, I would say,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: is Josh, which is why he was targeted first. Because
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: he was crashing out pretty hard at the very beginning,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: freaking out, like doubling over into a fetal position. He
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: was also the one that said that the first night
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: she was saying she sleeps like a rock and doesn't
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: hear anything. And he heard everything. And he was freaking
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: out that first night.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: He was an interesting mix of the calming presence, but
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: the one that was really panicking, if.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: That makes sense.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: He lost it completely.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: He lost it. He lost it completely. So, got in
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: his head, for sure.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. This is a pretty old movie, 25
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: years old. It can rent a car. But people are
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: still talking about it. I will say the McDonald paper
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: or research paper, I think it was from 2010. So
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: it's still 10 years older, 11 years older than the movie,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: I believe. But fascinating that... in itself, because they did.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: They wanted to look at this aspect of like, okay,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: this is a film about how women shouldn't be leading.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: In itself, in this bigger conversation. And I could see that.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: But again, also, I really love that we didn't have
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: to see nudity. We didn't have to see her breasts.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: We didn't have to have a moment of her being
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: very sexualized or any of those things. She just was.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: There was no question about boyfriend, husband, any of that.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: She just moved on.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Interestingly though donahue heather donahue did comment about these arguments
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: saying this uh i've heard people say that the blair
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: witch project is a feminist movie because there's a woman
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: in charge and i've heard it called a completely anti-feminist
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: movie because this woman screws everything up who cares really
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: it's just a movie um which i'm sure like a
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: lot of people would like it to be just a
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: movie but we don't have we can't have anything nice
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: here we know this I don't think this is one
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: of those that actually stands for... Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: I'm being too broad. I don't feel like this movie
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: was necessarily a stance on equality or gender differences as
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: much as they wanted to tell you a scary story
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: and make money.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I think so, too. I don't think there was any.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: Now, there might have been, but I don't feel like
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: it was trying to say anything particular about women being
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: in charge. Perhaps the issue is that when we see it,
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: it's rare. And that's what we think.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it may absolutely have to do with also
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: people who came back and saying, this is why women
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be in charge. When the movie in itself is like, no,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: the forces of evil were against them. They were never
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: going to leave. It didn't matter who was leading.
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it again, I think if the man had been
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: playing Heather's character, we wouldn't necessarily be. maybe we'd be
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: talking about like, oh, he's a genius. But instead we're
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: talking about, oh, she didn't know what she was doing.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Right. So it's not necessarily the movie makers as much
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: as the, or the creators or writers as much as
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: what society wants to dictate on it. Because again, yeah,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: even if it was dudes, because we have seen many
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: found footage where it was men. The grave encounters, we
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: have the Mel Lee coming in. He's the one, but
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: it kind of similar to, where they blame him because
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: they can't get reception, you know, in that same realm.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: But we don't see it as much as a conversation
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: about how men can't lead. But he's the one. He
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: does end up in that situation.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: And I would argue what he did was worse.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: I don't remember correctly.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: I would argue, like.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: I suppose you could get into the nature of who
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: believes what, but bringing in like a fake medium and
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: all this stuff in a place that could potentially be dangerous.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: And you know, that's another thing about the Blair.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: Witch, I suppose, is in the beginning when they are
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: interviewing all of those people, they do interview that one
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: woman who you can tell is like the talk of
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: the town, who has all of this knowledge about the
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: witch and is kind of weird. And they dismiss her
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: But I do feel at the heart of it, there
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: was a genuine curiosity, whereas Grave Encounters, it was much
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: more like craven.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Money making.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Which is, I mean, we've seen that in actual ghost
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: hunting shows, reality shows, where they do this and everybody's like,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: this is fake, this is not, all these things. And
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I used to love those. I loved those ghost hunter shows.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: A little too much, weirdly. But because I wanted to
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: believe and I wanted to see these things. And I
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: also love that aspect of being scared if they're real.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: I went on a couple of ghost tours. One in Roswell.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: It was interesting. Did you see anything?
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: So we had a moment where the flashlights and everything
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: went out. Ooh.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was freaky.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: We're like... But anyway, but all this to say, this
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: movie definitely opened a door for new ways of creating
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: movies at that time. Unfortunately, we kind of already referenced this,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: and Annie, you can get into a little more. I
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: think you know a little more about this. Movies like
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: reality TV, much like reality TV, It leaves very little
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: for the actors. In this movie, it seems to leave
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: them behind, as in, like, monetarily. They sign a contract,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: not realizing how big this movie is. Because, again, independent
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: movies like this, you don't know their found footage. So
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: not a lot goes into it. Like, all of the
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: CGI or any of that is not supposed to anyway,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: but I'm sure there's some.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: But, like.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: The intention is bringing in unknown actors. All the paranormal
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: activity that the first ones are like unknown actors who
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: just come in, do this found footage, types of movies,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: and then never get paid. They never get royalties and
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: not really under contract like that. They do kind of, again,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: reality TV is very similar to this where the production
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: or the studio owns all the rights and nothing is
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: given to the actors.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Yes, and I think especially because this happened in the early,
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: early days.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: They really didn't get anything.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: And you can find a lot of interviews they've done recently,
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: the actors from this, about it. I have worked on
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: a found footage movie. I hope it never comes out.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: If anybody finds it, tell me.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: It's really fun.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: I had a great time. But, I mean, essentially, you're, like,
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: running the sound and the camera. You're in.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: The woods or wherever, you're coming up, you're improv-ing a
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: lot of it. You just have to hit certain beats. And,
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: you know, bigger, there are found footage, now that it's
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: a popular genre, this is not always the case, but
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: it is a cheap way to enter the industry. So
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: a lot of people who are starting out do it,
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: and a lot of actors who are starting out will
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: sign on to it because, and I've said this before,
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: wildly enough, a lot of times you don't get paid
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: for this at all. What you're hoping for is to
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: get just credit uh just like a a shot you
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: can show to other people like i can act and
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: so it is bizarre to me that you would put
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: you would give people like the bare bones of a
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: script and equipment and have them do it all and
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: then they get paid nothing and it could be incredibly
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: financially lucrative right and they get nothing right there's no
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: guarantees but wow yeah.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: And just as a reminder in general, actors don't get
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: paid much unless you're a big-name movie star. And seemingly,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: those are the people who are all children of famous
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: people already that get those kind of breaks. You rarely
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: make money.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: No, you really don't. I think people are often shocked
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: by that. I'm like, yeah, no. It's not much at all.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: It's usually the vibe of like, You are so lucky
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: to be in this.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: Maybe you'll get seen by someone else and you can
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: take that next step. And then maybe you'll make enough
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: to not do whatever other jobs you're doing to do this.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Right. And then the scheduling, you have to be so open. Yes.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: It's such an odd thing. When the film industry came
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: into Atlanta and then having all these friends who moved
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: here or who started up really trying to get their
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: career done, The amount of odd jobs they have to
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: take and do because to truly be an actor, they
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: have to be able to go on a whim for
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: as long as they want you there. And you may
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: not get on stage at all that day, but you
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: have to be on call just in case. That's absurd
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: to me. And you get paid minimally for being there. Yeah.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: And then you have to... I still think this should
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: be illegal. But in a lot of cases, you have
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: to pay to audition.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's odd.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: You have to pay to audition and you have to
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: do it within... A lot of times within 24 hours.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: Like you get the script and you have to do
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: it and you might have to pay for it. And
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: if you need somebody to read with you, then good luck.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: There's so many scammy like talent agencies.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: It's a big problem.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: Anyway, all this to say. heather josh and mike deserved
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: more for the role that they played because i honestly
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: haven't seen them in anything else and we know their
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: names i will say that we know who they are
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: but i don't think that's really helped them in the
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: career of like movie industry no entertainment industry they did
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: a great job yes they did for something that this
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: new this like this groundbreaking. They did an amazing job.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: All that to say is let us know what your
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: opinion is, because I think like it's interesting when you
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: see movies like this and trying to get deeper meanings
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: and trying to get like the understanding beyond just this
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: was a new technique. This is a new way of storytelling.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: It gets into a bigger conversation that people were like,
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: I see it this way and I see it that way.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: And I love that.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: I love it, too.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: And I would love to come back and just talk
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: about found footage in general. Because I think there are
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: some movies where the public perception has shifted. A Paranormal
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: Activity is one of my favorites where everyone went from like,
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: Meek is so funny to be like, no, he's a jackass. Like,
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: over time. So I think we should come back and
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: look at that. But in the meantime, yes, if you
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: have any thoughts about this, any favorite found footage movies.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: Please let us know. You can email us at stephaniemomstuff
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: at iheartmedia.com. You can find us on Twitter at momstuffpodcast
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've never told you.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: We're also on TeePublic YouTube. I've been forgetting about YouTube.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: We also have a book you can get wherever you
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: get your books. Thanks as always to our super producer, Christina,
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: our executive producer, Maya, and our contributor, Joey.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: And thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: You is a production of iHeartRadio.
• 47:58
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