Latest / Wellness by Designs - Practitioner Podcast / Natural Strategies for Men's Health with Naturopath Jason Mallia

Transcript

Natural Strategies for Men's Health with Naturopath Jason Mallia · Wellness by Designs - Practitioner Podcast

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: This is Wellmospy Designs, and I'm your host, andrew Whitfield Cook.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Joining us today is Jason Malia, a naturopath and acupuncturist who specialises in men's health, and that's indeed what we'll be discussing today.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Wellmospy Designs, jason.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: I'm wonderful Andrew.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I'm really excited to be here, Thank you, mate.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Now take us through a little bit about your career and certainly your interest in men's health.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: It's not a common speciality that we see.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Oh look, I've been a naturopath and integrative health professional for 25 years now.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I've studied most major natural medicine modalities, including chiro, osteo, naturopathy, acupuncture, homeopathy and so forth.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: But really what led me to the field was injury myself I was a football player, had a pretty severe football injury which was almost amputated at the time and pretty much was put on to a pretty severe course of antibiotics to eradicate the osteomyelitis, and this obviously spiralled me down into a pretty serious state of depression and substance abuse.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: And so literally I fell into naturopathy by looking for things to heal myself.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: And I stumbled across nutrition and someone directed me to the Australian College and said you should go and study nutrition there.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: And so I went along, had no idea.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: It was a professional training and three years later I became a nutritionist and I wondered how I got there because I didn't envisage to be a health professional.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: And then, not long after that, one of the college actually the college dean said to me Jason, I think you'd be a great naturopath.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: And I just looked at it with this confused look and said what's that?
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know they have a bunch of leaf eaters or something.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: What are they?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I've got no idea.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: So that's how I ended up a naturopath and in terms of men's health, really that was by default, obviously, being a male, being in sports, having had wanting to increase my muscle mass and wanting to better my performance.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: It's partly to do with that, but also a lot of women would bring in their men and say, look, please, look after my man.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: He's struggling.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: He's struggling on a number of areas and of course, men don't always come in by them on their own accord.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: They get pulled in by the ear and they still see the indent mark in their earlobe.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: So over the years there's obviously been more of a need for men, and also men are coming in now on their own accord, which is wonderful.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Well, it's good to see that change in focus.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Tell us more, though, about what sort of conditions you treat.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: You come from a sporting background, and there was obviously that need, for I mean not just sporting prowess but indeed survival with osteomyelitis, and you're talking about severe disfigurement as a minimum, amputation as unexpected.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: So what sort of aspects do you like to treat?
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: But what sort of aspects of men's health are presenting more and more?
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Oh look, I love to treat low testosterone.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: It's a special interest of mine.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Being a man in my 50s, I'm always looking to optimize testosterone for myself, but I also see a lot of young men coming in wanting to do the same.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: But I often get conditions related to prostate, of course, in general health conditions such as gut problems and acid reflux, all that kind of stuff.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: But we typically treat a lot of chronic disease in my clinic, and so you know autoimmune diseases and cancer support as well.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: So, but we see a number of male health conditions, often related to toxicity.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Of course it's a bit of an epidemic.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Now take us through that one.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: That's really interesting toxicity.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: So you're based in Sydney, right?
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: That's right, yep, that's right, yep in Andale.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, so things like lead dioxins.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: With regards to the, I remember the Olympic stadium building, there was a whole release of dioxins into the water table there.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Look, I talk about a lot in my talks and how I believe toxicity is the main cause of most health problems, and especially EMF, electromagnetic radiation, which has been shown to have a strong impact on testosterone as well.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: But toxicity, we say a plethora of different toxins, you know.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: You've got your phylates, which is, you know, heterogenic in nature and blocking our testosterone.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: You've got a lot of heavy metals.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: In fact, myself I was heavy metal poisoned.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: In my book, the Wounded Healer, I talk about how I slipped into a pretty severe chronic fatigue as a result.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: So mercury, toxicity from dental fillings and from tap water and what have you.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: In my case it was a broken sphigma sphigmometer that actually vaporized, which caused my toxicity.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: But we have yeah, yeah, that was a it was a freak, freak thing that happened in the clinic just smashed it and then just vaporized and had no idea it was vaporizing at the time.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: But look, toxicity is rampant.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: We quite commonly do hair analysis and see astronomical levels of mercury, lead and aluminium.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: We're seeing a lot more titanium these days.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it's because of the titanium implants, but we're seeing a lot more of that.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: So these are all things that potentially leach our manhood.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: So things like now zinc gets depleted and what have you?
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, what about the old culprits?
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: You know lead is a cracker.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: You've mentioned mercury, but also things like from the workmen tradies using or working with CCA.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, worth the.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: You know the green timber.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Do you still see that?
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Or because we've moved away from that onto a more?
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: What are we using?
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: A policy I wouldn't say?
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: I don't see as much lead as I used to, interestingly, and I think that's since they've removed lead from lead paint.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: In fact, I was fortunate enough to meet the man who was instrumental in that, the late Jason Bowden Smith, who passed away.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: He was instrumental in getting the lead out of lead paint and but in since that time we've seen a quite decline.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I see a lot more mercury in aluminium actually than anything.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: But in terms of professions, you see a lot of.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: I see a lot of builders.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: In my clinic, in fact, we had a men's retreat recently.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: You know all builders, all overweight and all showed signs of toxicity.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: And it's no coincidence then, that the building trade is way up there when it comes to the trades that have the most toxicity, along with hairdressers and, you know, mining workers.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so do you find when we're talking about these, as you say, overweight trade is they're not just toxic, other comorbidities as well?
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: You said they're overweight, but you know, do we also see low testosterone in these miles, or?
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: is that a?
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: function of other things.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, with the toxicity comes a lot of the time nutritional deficiencies.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: And when you've got nutritional deficiencies, we all know that zinc is an epidemic, zinc deficiency is an epidemic, and so we see a lot of these deficiencies come along with that.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: So absolutely, you see a lot of deficiencies as well as the toxicity that accompanies that.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: But you see them a lot of the time come in with, say, high blood pressure.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: They've been on a medication and that blood pressure actually is affecting their manhood, so they're actually not able to get an erection.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: And so they come into the clinic.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: They don't tell me that in the beginning they'll say I'm here for my gut, but it turns out that it's actually about the rectal dysfunction.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: So they don't often you often see it when they fill in their reports, their intake form, they don't actually put why they've come to see me.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: They'll tell me in the clinic in private.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: That's actually a really good clinical point with men who are having problems with erectile function or either attaining or maintaining an erection.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Look for blood pressure as well.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Absolutely yes.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: So if they've been on a medication, you must look and ask them that question so how's things happening in the bedroom?
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: And then they'll say to you as a matter of fact, I've had a bit of a decline in the last three months.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: And so what happened?
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Then they say their medication started.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: So they're often looking for an alternative to the current blood pressure medication there on, because they certainly want to still have a good love life.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: What about you?
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: You're mentioning younger patients, younger men as well.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, so are you saying that younger and younger men are having issues with testosterone levels?
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: The research is showing that it's affecting all ages and since 1987, there's been about a 1% per year in all ages.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: So that's, if you do the calculations, let's look about 40 odd percent.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, some other studies are a little bit more modest in that calculation, but we all agree that we're not the men our fathers were.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: So basically, yes, we're seeing a lot of young men, and the interesting thing about young men is they're experimenting with a lot of new medications that have come out, such as SARM selective antigen receptor modulators and so it's inconclusive as to what they're doing.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: We don't exactly know what they do.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: And so I had a young man in recently and he showed the testosterone levels of an 80-year-old and he was in his 20s and my first question was what have you been doing?
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: And he said I've been taking SARMs.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: So it was non-existent, and so we'd been working with him for some time.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: He was a good looking, strapping lad, full of muscle, and I found it very hard to believe that his testosterone level was actually that low.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: But the interesting thing about young men, they're the ones that are more likely to come in.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Would you believe the young men of today.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: They're a little bit different of the men of yesterday.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: They're more likely to seek help, especially when something like this is happening.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so take us through this, though.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: This is a really interesting picture.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: What do you think are the causes?
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Oh look, I think there's a lot of substance abuse, I think there's a lot of stress and I think definitely mobile phones have something to do with it.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at they just study on rats, they found that one hour exposure of EMF per day reduced it by 50%, reduced the testosterone by 50%.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: So that was a remarkable finding.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: We're seeing a lot of links to vitamin D deficiency.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: So people who are night workers they don't get morning sun you see a lot of depletion of testosterone as a result of that.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: You'll also see a lot of young men experiment with diets.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: So low carb diets actually cause low testosterone and the low carb diet in relation to protein actually deficiencies with saturated fats.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: So we went on to this thing of reducing all our saturated fats, but in fact, saturated fats actually promotes testosterone and so there's a number of factors.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: I think plastic stuff definitely got something to do with it, because you've got about a, they've done a study and they found that about a credit card per week that we're ingesting.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: So imagine that over a year.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: So I imagine phylates have a huge impact and so we see a lot of each gen dominant men as a result, and so we do a lot of testing and find that quite often.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, the causes of testosterone deficiency, I believe is it's multifactorial.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: But of course you've got to look at the individual because what's happening in their lifetime obviously has something to do with it, but it's where they started their lifetime, in their genetics.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: So, as you know, genetics plays about 20% of the role and your expo zone plays about 80% of the role in what what a person presents with in the clinic.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: So in my clinic we go it's about the why versus what continuum.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: So they've come here, they've got the what going on, so we want to understand the why.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: So the why is what they started the world with with their genetics plus their expo zone.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Gives you what's happening today and that's a model that I work with to demonstrate to the patient and how we work and also to get it clear in their heads how, how it's going to unfold.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, the genetics has a lot to do with it.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: So snips, polymorphisms, have a lot to do with it.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: So they have issues with these.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: During clearance.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: You got phase one, phase two, detox issues and conversion.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: You've got snips that relate to easier conversion to that potent DHT, which can obviously lead to prostate issues and what have you?
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: So you got to look at the genetics.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: I think in those difficult cases you've really got to understand their gene profile.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so when you're talking about assessments of their standard ones that you always do or very often do, like you're talking gene genetics, if you're talking about toxicity, you might look at a hair mineral tissue analysis.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: What about gut function?
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Things like that.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Tell us through your intake of your assessments.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Oh look, when we see the patient for the first time, of course we want to.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: You know we want to give them best bang for their buck.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: So we want to know what's the test that's going to give us the most information and help us to get the most clinical information to help them get to their goal faster.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: So gut, microbiome we do a lot of testing.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: I think I'm probably the highest for the micro, the macroble one that metagenics released some time ago.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I think I prescribed so many of those I think I'd have to be a top on the list, but then of course you've got to look at I do a preliminary health screening in my clinic.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: We use a scan and that gives us an idea of how they're functioning.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: So we use a bioimpedance scan along with an interstitial scan which gives an idea of their organs, and from there it's like a triage nurse.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: We direct the patient to the right testing protocol.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: So heavy metals comes into it, of course hormone slivery, hormone profiles for men and the interesting thing about men, that's a little bit different to women in the way they what they expect.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: They want you to test, they really want data and they want evidence.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: So they often come to me and they say to me I heard you do a lot of testing and so yes, we do, we're very big on testing and yeah, so that'd probably be some of the standard ones we run.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Of course, for the more serious conditions we run other screenings, you know, for cancer, what have you?
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: We run a lot of the RGCC oncogenomics tests for tissue species.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: So for cell line specific extracts treatment, yeah, so Right, okay, gotcha.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: So I mean it's hard to sort of.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I've got to think about asking a patient group question because you deal with these different groups so I can't ask a broad question.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: It's quite interesting.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's say, if we go back to young men, we're talking about testing, looking at heavy metals, looking at pesticide residues, phthalates, things like that, and also stress.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: I'm imagining that they wouldn't be at least yet the age group Maybe they would be that are on statins, which has been a confounding issue for testosterone.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, any medications that are rearing their heads.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: You mentioned substance abuse, anything that we've got to be aware of to ask our patients about antidepressants.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: So if you look at antidepressants, antidepressants can affect a number of things.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Of course they can affect our and they one of the number one Side effects is weight gain, right.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: But so why does it cause weight gain?
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: It affects the liver, right, and most medications in general they have some kind of effect on the liver, they put more load on the liver.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: So if we, if we have a patient standing in front of us who's got poor phase one or phase two detoxification pathways, automatically any medication, but often an antidepressant, will slow their detox of its regions and therefore Create issue of dominance.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: So you've got to look at you, look at the jugs specifically, but I think drugs in general as well, but other medications, I would say For the young groups, I mean, they're parting a lot, right, and they're using amphetamines and they're using drugs that are stimulating cortisol and and of course, they end up in a sympathetic nervous system dominant state, which then pushes their Production to cortisol rather than testosterone.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: So you get a shift from making testosterone to cortisol.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: So you got those kind of things.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: And I think in young people, the thing that I see quite commonly is they're over training, they're overdoing it, so that's also affecting the cortisol levels affecting sleep.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, had a young man just the other day.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: He was only 16 years of 16 years of age.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: He had terrible sleep and we it was affecting his energy levels, all the things related to low testosterone.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: But I should point out that, would you believe, low human growth hormone is, quite as it's, a bit of an unsung hero in terms of not unsung hero, but a bit of a hidden Nicheal of some of the symptoms, because the actual the symptoms are the same as low testosterone as well.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So you'll get a patient sometimes will say my doctor says my testosterone is normal and I've, but I've got all the symptoms of low testosterone.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Can you check me out?
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: So I checked them out, I do a saliva hormone profile and, yes, it's normal.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: So then you got to suspect HGH, right?
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: So, and if you really look at the picture, you'll find often they got lack of sleep which then affects their human growth growth hormone production because it's initiated in the first half an hour of sleep With the right levels of GABA.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: So that's where the microbiome comes in, because we often see high GABA consumption in the gut which is affecting their sleep.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: And then when you've, you know, bodybuilders talk about all the time you must sleep and you must eat, and they got it right.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: You know you have to sleep Well, you have to eat well if you want to build muscle mass, so yeah.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: So that kind of thing, we say that kind of thing quite regularly.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: So GABA is a wonderful treatment, I find, for those people that are constantly stressed, not switching off, not able to recover.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, got the symptoms of low test, but actually it's actually not low test.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really interesting, but such one would say odd.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Such a simple answer for low, lowered growth hormone production Not that easy to achieve, particularly in those men in their young and silly days, outparting all things like that Not that I ever did that, um, so let's go into some of the other things that you that you use in clinic.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, like it's a question that I ask because it's easy, but I get that every patient's different, I understand.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: But yes, something about, let's say, more common nutrients and therapies that you might employ.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Oh look, I mean number one on the list.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: We mentioned it before.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Zinc, you know.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: You know, I think, the world, the study they done on worldwide, they show that 25% of people were deficient in zinc and it was also depending on socioeconomic situation.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: However, in my clinic I would say it's more close to 80 to 90% when it comes to male health zinc deficiency.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: So I'm very big on zinc supplementation, zinc sulfate and zinc biscoicinate.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Of course we've got to watch how much we give because it can upset the gut and you know.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: But you know, typically about 50 to 100 milligrams of zinc.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: So zinc's usually top on the list.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Of course you've got, depending on the condition.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Of course, are we talking about low test?
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, in terms of young men, we often use, you know, estrogen blockers, would you believe, more often than test boosters and look dims out there.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: And so is indole-free carbonyl, and you know the community split in terms of which one to use.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: I mean dim, of course, is the byproduct of the breakdown of indole-free carbonyl, but there's not enough data to really tell us what it actually really does.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Indole-free carbonyl is a lot more backed in research and it's showing that it can, you know, block estrogen.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: So that's a one.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: I use indole-free carbonyl especially for estrogen dominance, male and female.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: We typically use a lot of.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: What about?
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: sulforophane in that regard.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah look, I was using that a while ago.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: I didn't see the significant changes that I'd liked with these estrogen in men.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, because I always retest, of course we always retest Yep, and I just find indole-free carbonyl.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I'm just more comfortable with that one, comfortable with more of the data there, and it's just a bit of a bugger that doesn't come in capsules, it's only in a powder form.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: But yeah, boron is another one that's an unsung hero.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: That's a very good one for blocking estrogen.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: A lot of people don't routinely get boron checked, but I do have a machine, a resonance machine, that actually can detect if boron is low.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: We use you stand as stuff that crosses over to women as well.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: You know a lot of gut support.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: You know supplements, actually a product that I, a lot of men come in with a lot of acid reflux.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm not sure whether it's because they eat a lot of pies and beers, but it's predominantly men that come in, I find, with and especially the distended men.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: And there's a great product that I use.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: It contains zinc, carnazine and somastic gum and licorice in there and it's a wonderful product, especially if it's that acid reflux has led to, say, gastritis.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: It's a wonderful product.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: So, but in terms of test production there's, there was a systematic review done on all the herbal extracts and surprisingly, what came up the top was fenugreek.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Fenugreek really shone really well in terms of lifting testosterone, shortly followed by tongatale, which Tongatale?
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, tongatale, tongatale.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I can never pronounce it, but I've used it myself.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: The only thing with that one is you've got to watch men or people with anxiety and sleep issues because it can actually stimulate baby's stimulatory and create some anxiety.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: The community split on tribulus.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Whilst tribulus is great for rectal dysfunction, it's not great for testosterone production.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: There's mixed evidence.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: It sort of goes, and I find that myself.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, you try it in certain men and they just they make sure they never run out, they always want to get it back up.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: And then you got the other type yeah, they go, nah didn't do anything.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: So it's about 50-50 with tribulus.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: So tribulus is still used quite extensively and we use, of course, some of the traditional Chinese medicine formulas panoxycin there was a wonderful formula that contained panoxycin with licorice and some buplaerum, which unfortunately got discontinued.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: It's still available as a Chinese medicine formula, but that product was well-rounded because panoxycin by itself isn't that effective for testosterone, but in combination with other herbs, it works a dream.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: It's obviously that naturopathic synergistic approach and that Chinese medicine formulation that's winning there.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so Toncat Alley has been registered I think it's from mid-2022 on the Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods, even though there's no company yet that's brought a product out.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: What about other herbs that they're not approved yet by the TGA, but things like Fagodia and?
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Chilijit.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: I do use it.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: That's highly nutritive, so that has got some evidence behind it.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: But the one that a lot of people are using a lot of young men are using is Turquesterone, the insect is there right?
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: The one that yes, that's unfortunate right.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, insect plant.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: The structure is very similar to testosterone.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: I've used it myself and I find it does work.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: But I find that a lot of the T-lifters once the levels have increased they stop working.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: So Tongarts like that as well.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: So once it gets you to a healthy testosterone level, it doesn't take you over.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: It keeps you in that threshold and it pretty much stops working.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: So cycling is a good idea.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: But isn't that what we want to achieve, though?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that one of the beauties of herbs that if it's high it'll bring it low, yes, lowered.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: If it's low it'll bring it up to normal, but it won't overdo things?
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: We found this with, for instance, ginseng years ago.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: With blood pressure Low blood pressure you can use Korean ginseng to normalize it up.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: High blood pressure just using a small amount of ginseng, you can bring it down, but don't go overboard, like the ginseng abuse syndrome that was noted by these bodybuilders and things like that, absolutely so can I ask then so when you're using these, I mean, let's say, testosterone supportive herbs, all of which we've spoken about there do you look at doing the pre-test for their testosterone possibly their estrogen metabolite and a post-test, so that you're making sure that nothing's going awry yet?
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Absolutely yes, and I mean just just just the other day we had a gentleman he said I was doing great on the formula he gave me but I've just plateaued, and so that's a sign that you've got to change things up a little bit, of course.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: But so we're now doing our follow-up screen to see if it's had an effect.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: And if it's had an effect and it's increased it, then why is the person still feeling deficient?
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: So there might be some other component to his health that's affecting.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: So, so, absolutely, I'm a big fan of testing and retesting because you, you want to see.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a person who loves clinical evidence.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: I don't so so much get hooked into the scientific evidence per se only because the interesting thing about a lot of the studies is they don't really specify who they're testing.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: So, for instance, with you know Individuals, that I say that the person's got this polymorphism and this person doesn't have this polymorphism, or this person has this blood type of this, so it's.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: I asked a scientist recently Did they ever factor in blood type when they do this science?
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: They said absolutely not.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: They said she said but we should, because there's such a vast difference in the blood groups and what they how they respond.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: So yeah, absolutely, we were always tested, retest I'm a big fan of that there's.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: It's one of those Horrible things that any researcher has to face, and that is how much money did they got to throw at the research that they're doing?
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: The other thing, of course, is that You'll get the answers to the questions that you ask, and I've seen yeah, you know.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: For instance, you know vitamin D doesn't work in cardiovascular disease.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: So how long did you give it?
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: For a year, yeah, yeah, right.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: How much did you give?
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: 400, are you right?
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: So yes you often get the answers to the questions that you ask.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I totally take your point that it requires a dedicated expertise expert clinician to sort of interpret Research and put it into the the clinical field.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, jason, you do a lot of retreats and things like that.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I understand as well, right, take?
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: you through.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, take us through that.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Look up men's retreats that I do have just started.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: I just finished my first one here in the blue mountains, because I live in the blue mountains now and I thought it'd be a great opportunity, while I live up here, to start retreats.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: And I thought to myself who really needs it?
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: And then the next person that walked in my door my clinic, I think it was a very Stressed out male and I thought to myself it's the men.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: And so it became very popular amongst the women.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Of course I mentioned that to the to the women, and women are like oh, please, take my man.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: So we we run these Retreats now where we address what's known as the man code, and so there's eight components that I've identified that affects people's men's health, well-being, mental health and life of purpose and Interesting.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: We've mentioned a few of them already.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: So these are things like toxicity, stress, poor mindset, a lack of connection to a purpose I mean they've got a money full of a pocket, full of money, but they're not happy in their jobs Things like, you know, poor, diet, overweight.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: But there are eight components that we address individually and by the time the men leave the retreat they've got a tool kit, just like they have at their jobs, on how to look after their health and live a purposeful life.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: So that was a very successful event.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: I was very happy with it.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: So the boys have already signed up for next year.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: So Imagine it will grow yeah.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but it like it's really good.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: We we often see and hear of women's groups, some going on retreat and it's accepted, but it's not very well Accepted, if you like, that men go on retreats and yet it's so well it's there.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Because I feel that I feel that in our Culture we've lost this you use the word correctly connection, purpose.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: We've lost that connection to purpose.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and you knocked it on the head.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's In the old days.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: You mentioned retreat.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: It's a very feminine thing.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: It's very female thing, you know.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: But with men I think they're coming a lot, coming slowly, coming on board with these kind of Ideas.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: That is not such a feminine thing.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: So it's about your marketing and I think it's who's pitching it as well.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: So if I was, like you know, a female yogi promoting it, it might not attract a male, but, being a male myself and into exercise and training, so it attracts other men of course.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: So if it's OK for you, then it's OK for me.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think with men it's how you pitch it to them.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: But when they came it was interesting with the Rinse Retreat they saw some of them were a bit unsure what was going to happen.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: But when they got involved they got stuck into it and it was like amazing.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: So and these are just normal early blokes have a me pie at the pub, and these are normal guys.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: It's not not, not guys who really had much to do with natural health or so that was a nice little.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I've got to say Come, that's, that's a real well done for you, because it's very common that these let's call them the bloke blokes, right?
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: It's very common that the bloke blokes are left to their own devices, that they're the ones that aren't very demonstrative in normal circles.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: They're not not emotionally out there, if you like, and yet it requires somebody like yourself to say mate, this is something you need, we all need to do this together.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: It's a real interesting thing about connection.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very well done, absolutely.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you, andrew.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I was just going to say the.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: What I was going to say now it was a relation to the supplements.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Actually, if you have a look at the supplements, even the supplements are all geared for women.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: You see a lot of women's formulas out there.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: How many companies, if you really look at it, how many companies have a good male health formula?
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, you've got the multivitamins, men's multivitamins but there seems to be a lot more emphasis on the research and putting together female formulas, pmt formulas and menopause formulas.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: So I've been telling some of the supplement companies we really need some reformulations to happen, because a lot of the men are left to their own devices and they pretty much listen to Andrew Huberman or they listen to some of these guys online, which can be beneficial but not specific enough.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: I mean I had a young man who took you mentioned Fidozia.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: A young man came into my clinic who had been taking Fidozia, developed a kidney disorder as a result of taking Fidozia.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: So I mean these are the kind of things we're seeing.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: So I mean this guy is huge to see Andrew Huberman.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: I like him myself.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: He's great what he does.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: He's got great research but unfortunately it's not targeted to the individual.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: So I think men need a bit more individualized support.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: We actually need the supplement industry to actually support them as well, and mostly local supplement industries I'm talking about, because there's plenty overseas, so yeah, Jason, where can we find out more?
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: You've done your first retreat.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: We're looking forward to more of that.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Any other stuff that you do to support men?
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, look, at the moment it's pretty much the retreats.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: But I mean, if men wanted to get on board a men's health program, you can get on my website.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of information about a men's health program there.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: We tell them that we talk about the process and how it all works, collect the data, do the testing and so forth.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: But yeah, look, there are your main avenues.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Jason, you've just run your first retreat.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: We're looking forward to more.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: That's fantastic.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: What are the resources?
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Have you got to help men out?
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Oh look, I've got a book called the Wounded Healer, which I wrote a few years back, and in that book it gives a lot of the components that we actually talk about at the man code retreats that we run.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: So in that book there's a wellness program.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: So that book also tells you where I come from and how I got into this field and talks a lot about the mindset.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: So it's a great add-on for a lot of people in general in my clinic to understand more the mindset side of things rather than just the health side of things.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: So it's about helping people to not only connect to get their health right, to get a bit more clarity in their life, to connect to a purpose which makes them live a happier life, I guess.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Well done, jason.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Jason, thank you so much for taking us through this Very important topic, very often overlooked.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: And, let's face it, men aren't usually the demographic that is seen in clinic, and I think we're very lucky to have somebody like yourself, with your history and certainly your dedication to men's health, out there.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Well done.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much, andrew, and it's been a pleasure joining you today.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, look forward to doing more of this kind of work.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: It's quite a passion and something I love to do every day, and I'm quite blessed to wake up and do this kind of work.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: And thank you everyone for joining us today.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: We'll have all of the show notes.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: We'll have as much information as we can up in the show notes and of course, there's the other podcasts.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: On the Designs for Health website.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Whitfield Cook.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: This is Welland Spa Designs.