Latest / The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee / What if sperm testing was as easy—and accurate—as a pregnancy test? Talking with Ash the founder of Sapyen

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What if sperm testing was as easy—and accurate—as a pregnancy test? Talking with Ash the founder of Sapyen · The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee

• 0:04
  Liz Walton: Welcome to the Home of Fertility, a space for real conversation and expert insights about fertility, healing, and creating family.
• 0:14
  Liz Walton: I'm Liz Walker.
• 0:17
  Helen Zee: And I'm Helen Z.
• 0:18
  Helen Zee: We are two mums who've walked this path and are passionate about supporting you on your journey, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.
• 0:28
  Liz Walton: We talk about it all.
• 0:29
  Liz Walton: Fertility treatment, holistic support, relationships, mindset, and the emotional highs and left.
• 0:38
  Helen Zee: Because sometimes the missing piece lies in someone else's story, in the quiet wisdom of the body, or in a breakthrough that's finally made for you.
• 0:49
  Liz Walton: We are so glad you are here.
• 0:52
  Liz Walton: Let's dive in.
• 0:58
  Liz Walton: And good day to all you beautiful listeners out there, and welcome to the home of fertility.
• 1:05
  Liz Walton: Today I am talking to an extremely interesting um gentleman.
• 1:11
  Liz Walton: And he has created a new at-home male testing um uh piece of equipment.
• 1:21
  Liz Walton: And I think this is so exciting.
• 1:22
  Liz Walton: I really wish I had it when I was trying.
• 1:26
  Liz Walton: And this lovely gentleman is called Ash.
• 1:28
  Liz Walton: Ash, how are you today?
• 1:30
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, very good, thank you.
• 1:31
  Ash Ramachandran: And thanks for having me on the show.
• 1:33
  Liz Walton: It's so wonderful to have you.
• 1:35
  Liz Walton: And I think also to share this product that you have created because you don't know what you don't know.
• 1:42
  Liz Walton: And I think this is about really helping people to understand this amazing product that you have created.
• 1:48
  Ash Ramachandran: Absolutely.
• 1:50
  Liz Walton: So, Ash, I'm gonna just share a little bit about who you are, and I want to make sure that I say your last name correctly.
• 1:58
  Liz Walton: So, Ash Ramachandran, is that right?
• 2:02
  Ash Ramachandran: Ramachandran's right, yeah.
• 2:03
  Liz Walton: Ramachandran, Ash Ramachandran is the founder and CEO of Sapien, the world's most accurate, affordable, and convenient home male fertility diagnostic company.
• 2:15
  Liz Walton: Servicing two million aspiring fathers globally.
• 2:19
  Liz Walton: I love that.
• 2:20
  Liz Walton: A strategic um strategist and an investor.
• 2:24
  Liz Walton: He's raised over 250 million for health and life science science startups and personally invested in 50 plus companies.
• 2:33
  Liz Walton: My goodness, you were an amazing man, including seven unicorns such as Robin Hood, Oculus, and DoorDash.
• 2:42
  Liz Walton: His careers span venture capital, diplomacy, and technology commercialization.
• 2:49
  Liz Walton: From leading UN humanitarian strategy during the Arab Spring in launching Australia's first IP and technology transfer fellowship, Ash continues to advise global funds, corporates, and universities on product launches, public health, and innovation.
• 3:08
  Liz Walton: My goodness, Ash, you are quite one amazing young man.
• 3:13
  Ash Ramachandran: I appreciate that.
• 3:14
  Ash Ramachandran: Thanks, Liz.
• 3:15
  Liz Walton: It's a pleasure.
• 3:16
  Liz Walton: So, Ash, tell me how what's what how did you get into this product?
• 3:22
  Liz Walton: What brought you here and what motivated you to start this company?
• 3:27
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, working for the United Nations doesn't necessarily lend itself automatically to building a malfertility diagnostic.
• 3:33
  Ash Ramachandran: I think what interestingly happened at a point in my life was I had an uncle that went through a malfertility diagnosis and spent about $120,000 to start off with unexplained infertility diagnosis and then worked towards a conclusive malfertility diagnosis.
• 3:48
  Ash Ramachandran: And I thought for the first time, oh gosh, um, I don't think as a man you necessarily ever have a conversation about fertility.
• 3:54
  Ash Ramachandran: And most men always think about it for the first time when they're battling infertility or when they're thinking about fertility in the context of having a child.
• 4:02
  Liz Walton: Yeah.
• 4:03
  Ash Ramachandran: And I was straight at an IVF clinic, uh curious to see if I was any fertile.
• 4:09
  Ash Ramachandran: And interestingly, what you notice in the waiting room of an IVF clinic is a myriad of women who are making a very conscious decision to go through IVF and male partners who accompany them.
• 4:19
  Ash Ramachandran: And everybody has to be there and get a scene analysis.
• 4:22
  Ash Ramachandran: And the process is quite archaic, uh, akin to, I would say, thinking about a pregnancy test about 20 years ago, where women had to go into a gynecologist's office and get physically examined.
• 4:33
  Ash Ramachandran: That's probably the closest um similarity to what a male fertility diagnosis is like today, a process that's largely unevolved since the 1970s.
• 4:43
  Ash Ramachandran: You go into a collection room that's that's not necessarily very exciting as an opportunity to experience and under significant time pressure and anxiety to collect a sample, and a vast majority of men are unable to.
• 4:56
  Ash Ramachandran: So I thought to myself, the evolution of the malfertility that the pregnancy test has seen over the last 20 years is a really strong balance to achieve in malfertility, is you need to be able to have something that's accessible, affordable, and accurate.
• 5:10
  Ash Ramachandran: Um, something that can also be accessible to men regardless of whether or not they're trying to have a child.
• 5:15
  Ash Ramachandran: And that's where we started Saibyan.
• 5:19
  Liz Walton: Yes, I love that.
• 5:20
  Liz Walton: And um, I've recently just done a podcast, and I know you're going to be on the male um, the male um panel with him.
• 5:30
  Liz Walton: And so he was saying, This is a lovely cat called Sam Hargreaves, and he was saying he just didn't realize he had no sperm at all.
• 5:39
  Liz Walton: And it was just like I didn't know until we were trying ages and nothing worked.
• 5:44
  Liz Walton: So he was like, This would just be so awesome.
• 5:46
  Liz Walton: And I'm so glad that you're both going to meet.
• 5:49
  Liz Walton: So, yes, Sapien.
• 5:50
  Liz Walton: Now tell me, tell me about this name, because it seems a very interesting name.
• 5:56
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, it's uh derived after Homo sapien.
• 5:59
  Ash Ramachandran: And the reason why is because when I first thought about building the company, I sat in the corner thinking about a name.
• 6:04
  Ash Ramachandran: And after running through multiple iterations of some something fertility, what occurred to me was as a company, if we did the right thing and if we built a product that the population could utilize to understand their fertility status, everything that we did would in some way impact the future of the human race.
• 6:21
  Ash Ramachandran: And that would have a domino effect into how we progress as a population.
• 6:26
  Ash Ramachandran: And that's why sapiens.
• 6:28
  Liz Walton: I love it.
• 6:29
  Liz Walton: Now that makes so much more sense.
• 6:31
  Liz Walton: I have been curious of your name and where that comes from.
• 6:34
  Liz Walton: That makes so much sense.
• 6:35
  Liz Walton: Ah, thank you for enlightening me with that.
• 6:38
  Liz Walton: Sure.
• 6:38
  Liz Walton: So tell me, what are some of those main barriers to male fertility testing?
• 6:46
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, I mean, you've got you've got plenty.
• 6:48
  Ash Ramachandran: You've got one with the fundamental scientific barrier, and then you've got an emotional barrier as well.
• 6:54
  Ash Ramachandran: The scientific barrier is sperm samples are only viable for one hour after collection, which typically means that every lab that is available, like every lab needs to have staff available to readily test sperm samples.
• 7:07
  Ash Ramachandran: And every major lab chain needs to have a lab in every high density population area, which we don't necessarily see across the population.
• 7:14
  Ash Ramachandran: So what you'd see typically um in a country like Australia is a major lab chain like Australian clinical labs with over a thousand labs would only have less than 20 labs in the country that test for human sperm.
• 7:25
  Ash Ramachandran: And that means, yeah, exactly.
• 7:28
  Ash Ramachandran: That means the average lab is about 90 to 100 minutes away from someone's house.
• 7:32
  Liz Walton: Right.
• 7:32
  Ash Ramachandran: And it's open Monday to Friday between, say, 9 a.m.
• 7:36
  Ash Ramachandran: to 3 p.m.
• 7:36
  Ash Ramachandran: or 4 p.m.
• 7:37
  Ash Ramachandran: So it makes it ridiculous from a complex standpoint logistically to access an malfertility test because you're far away, it's in the middle of your workday, and the sample isn't viable.
• 7:46
  Ash Ramachandran: So sometimes it's going to happen that you deliver a sample to a lab and then they're going to come back to you and tell you it's unviable because they didn't have enough stuff on hand.
• 7:54
  unknown: Right.
• 7:55
  Ash Ramachandran: So that's a scientific barrier there.
• 7:56
  Ash Ramachandran: But more importantly, I think also the emotional barrier is I earlier touched upon this idea that most men never encounter conversations around fertility up until it's time to have a diagnosis or up until they're finding it difficult to have a child.
• 8:10
  Ash Ramachandran: And that means they're faced with something pretty devastating for the first time.
• 8:14
  Ash Ramachandran: Right as they're also expected to pursue an action plan.
• 8:18
  Liz Walton: Yeah.
• 8:18
  Ash Ramachandran: And that that's that's a pretty negative thing at a population level.
• 8:21
  Ash Ramachandran: We need to do better on an education front, but unfortunately, that's how it's transpired over the last few decades.
• 8:26
  Ash Ramachandran: And that means men are typically unwilling to go into a lab and get a test in a manner that's timely enough.
• 8:32
  Ash Ramachandran: And then you've got three, um, the cost of getting a test can sometimes be exorbitant and typically requires you to have a consultation with multiple clinicians, and you're ending up spending anywhere from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand dollars, let alone if you live in a regional area, you might even have to catch a flight to go get a semanalysis.
• 8:50
  Liz Walton: Yes, yeah, and and I think that's that's a big point.
• 8:53
  Liz Walton: You know, here in Australia, it's such a big, vast country.
• 8:57
  Liz Walton: Your tests really will only be in your cities.
• 9:01
  Liz Walton: And um uh, you know, so many people don't all live in the city.
• 9:06
  Liz Walton: So yeah, then that makes that hour, yeah, it's impossible.
• 9:09
  Liz Walton: Absolutely.
• 9:10
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, we we have we have patients from remote areas of WA or Northern Territory that call us all the time from Carafa and WA going, the only way I can afford a steam analysis is if I buy a sapien test kit, because the alternative is I have to get my partner to fly down to Perth and it falls well above our affordability bracket.
• 9:28
  Liz Walton: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:29
  Liz Walton: Wow.
• 9:30
  Liz Walton: And this is so I think I feel what I hear this, hear from this is your test then helps save so much money for the individual.
• 9:40
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, I mean, to put it into perspective, we sell our test kit for $149.
• 9:44
  Ash Ramachandran: And if it comes from a if it comes from a practitioner uh with a signature and request form, it can go down for just over $100 through a Medicare rebate as well.
• 9:53
  Ash Ramachandran: And the reason why is I remember the beginning of building Sapien, people kept telling me, you know, people will pay a lot of money for a semi analysis, especially because it's probably the cheapest thing you've paid during your IVF cycle, and it won't really matter if you charge patients $400.
• 10:07
  Ash Ramachandran: But I think it does matter because uh I don't want to build a company that separates accessibility from affordability.
• 10:15
  Ash Ramachandran: And I think far too many companies do that.
• 10:17
  Ash Ramachandran: And the reason why the pregnancy test has become so ubiquitous in nature and why most decisions uh as it relates to fertility are start at the pregnancy test is because you can buy one over the counter at a Kohl's or a Woolley's for less than $10.
• 10:30
  Ash Ramachandran: And that makes a huge difference population.
• 10:33
  Liz Walton: It really, really does.
• 10:34
  Liz Walton: And I just want to thank you from all of our, you know, lay people, where you know, each bit, you know, adds on.
• 10:42
  Liz Walton: And we have an awareness of how much you know assisted reproduction is depending on what you might have to take, you know, IVF and then all the extras.
• 10:50
  Liz Walton: So to have something when you know your man may be challenged or a man may be challenged emotionally, yeah.
• 10:58
  Liz Walton: So to push them to go and have their sperm tested is is a lot.
• 11:04
  Liz Walton: And so to have this kit that seems so reasonable, it just makes it all so much more doable.
• 11:11
  Liz Walton: Yeah.
• 11:13
  Ash Ramachandran: We also work with some of the largest IVS clinics across Australia.
• 11:16
  Ash Ramachandran: So it's important for us to cater to a large population, regardless of their ability to afford a product.
• 11:21
  Ash Ramachandran: It needs to be affordable enough while still not compromising on things like accuracy and good patient experience.
• 11:28
  Liz Walton: Well, I thank you from the bottom of my heart, Well Benia.
• 11:31
  Liz Walton: So um um, I'm I'm curious on reliability.
• 11:37
  Liz Walton: How reliable are the results from your sapien semen analysis?
• 11:43
  Ash Ramachandran: Uh we've got parity with a lab assessment.
• 11:45
  Ash Ramachandran: So it's exactly as reliable as going into an IVF clinic or a lab to get a test.
• 11:50
  Ash Ramachandran: And the reason why is because, like I mentioned earlier, you want an experience that's convenient, you want an accuracy that's accurate and meets medical standards, and you want um affordability that actually makes it possible for people to buy.
• 12:04
  Ash Ramachandran: And those were the three core pillars that we've always stuck by as a company.
• 12:08
  Ash Ramachandran: So accuracy was paramount.
• 12:10
  Ash Ramachandran: And part of the reason why some of the world's largest IVF clinics use sapien, including the likes of Monash IVF and Adora in Australia, is because they see massive benefit in replacing their traditional process through Sapien.
• 12:25
  Ash Ramachandran: It not only makes it easier for the patient, but also produces reliable and accurate results.
• 12:30
  Liz Walton: Wow, that's awesome.
• 12:32
  Liz Walton: Wow, yeah.
• 12:33
  Liz Walton: And how good for you that the clinics are noticing your product creates more reliability and ease.
• 12:41
  Liz Walton: I mean, wow, that's awesome.
• 12:43
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, I mean, if if you look at IVF and you mention your story with IVF as well, um, IVF is one of those industries that's always consistently evolved.
• 12:52
  Ash Ramachandran: And now it's evolving due to pressure from private equity.
• 12:56
  Ash Ramachandran: There's financial pressure on IVF, there's also a level of market saturation.
• 13:01
  Ash Ramachandran: So effectively, you know, in markets like India, you have an IVF clinic for every hundred patients going through IVF.
• 13:06
  Ash Ramachandran: Really?
• 13:07
  Ash Ramachandran: So yeah, it's starting to get very crowded.
• 13:10
  Ash Ramachandran: And I think the general quality of an IVF cycle is being diluted as a result.
• 13:15
  Ash Ramachandran: So you find patients all the time that have a negative patient experience or don't necessarily achieve a huge amount of success for IVF because they didn't, they weren't on the right care plan.
• 13:26
  Ash Ramachandran: And I think as much as science is evolving, the patient experience isn't always evolving together with science.
• 13:32
  Ash Ramachandran: And some IVF clinics have done it right, and some others have a long way to go.
• 13:37
  Ash Ramachandran: And I think introducing products like sapien have always been a very deliberate decision for IVF clinics that focused on better patient experience and improved quality.
• 13:46
  Ash Ramachandran: And um, we are seeing, I think in Australia, something like 80% of IVF clinics in the country use sapien.
• 13:52
  Ash Ramachandran: Wow.
• 13:53
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, and markets like the UK were about 30%, and the US were getting a substantial foothold as well.
• 13:59
  Ash Ramachandran: So we we're rapidly expanding into clinics that immediately understand the benefit of good patient experience whilst not compromising on accuracy.
• 14:08
  Liz Walton: Yeah.
• 14:08
  Liz Walton: And that's it.
• 14:09
  Liz Walton: Good patient experience and still having accuracy.
• 14:13
  Liz Walton: You know, that's that's the key, isn't it?
• 14:14
  Liz Walton: Like the magic.
• 14:15
  Liz Walton: Exactly.
• 14:17
  Liz Walton: Oh gosh, this is amazing.
• 14:18
  Liz Walton: So how can couples and males, how can they get this product?
• 14:25
  Ash Ramachandran: Um, two simple ways.
• 14:26
  Ash Ramachandran: You can either go online and get one directly from our websites, apn.co, or you can go into pharmacies in Australia as well.
• 14:34
  Ash Ramachandran: So we're stocked in about 200 different pharmacies across the country, pharmacy 777 and Bloomster Chemist, where you can get one either on a Bloomsachemist online page or in store.
• 14:44
  Ash Ramachandran: Also make sapien the the first product of malfertility diagnosis to be on the shelf anywhere in the world.
• 14:51
  Ash Ramachandran: And when we set out, actually, funnily enough, I remember writing in a notebook, it would be a great success story for us if we were to make the malfertility test as accessible as a pregnancy test.
• 15:01
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah.
• 15:01
  Ash Ramachandran: Right.
• 15:02
  Ash Ramachandran: And I think it was very exciting oftentimes to go into a pharmacy and see a sapien test kit right beside a pregnancy test.
• 15:08
  Ash Ramachandran: And I think we're hitting milestones um progressively.
• 15:13
  Liz Walton: Yeah.
• 15:13
  Liz Walton: Wow.
• 15:14
  Liz Walton: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:15
  Liz Walton: So the next time I go into Bloom as a chemist, I am going to look for that and take a photo and uh make sure I put that on socials because that would be fantastic.
• 15:23
  Liz Walton: Yeah, when you're not looking for it, um you don't see it.
• 15:26
  Liz Walton: But now I know that I'm going to have a look because uh I just think like you say, it's awesome to be as accessible, um, that males can find out about their own fertility um quality um as easy as a female.
• 15:40
  Liz Walton: I mean, that's that's perfect.
• 15:44
  Ash Ramachandran: No, I mean, funnily enough, also um, seven out of ten purchases of the sapien test kit on our website happen to be women.
• 15:52
  Liz Walton: Really, yeah.
• 15:53
  Ash Ramachandran: Oftentimes women will make a decision with regards to fertility.
• 15:56
  Ash Ramachandran: And we we're finding huge amounts of women stepping up and making decisions on behalf of their male partner and providing them something accessible and accurate.
• 16:04
  Ash Ramachandran: Sapien.
• 16:05
  Liz Walton: Yeah.
• 16:06
  Liz Walton: Absolutely.
• 16:07
  Liz Walton: And you know, if um, you know, when we were trying, if I'd known that that kit, I would have easily bought it for my husband.
• 16:13
  Liz Walton: I'll make it easy for you, you know, it's super easy because they're working, or you know, so absolutely we would like to make it as easy as possible for our man, for sure.
• 16:23
  Liz Walton: So um let's look at cost.
• 16:27
  Liz Walton: How does the cost compare to attending, say, say a lab, like in person?
• 16:33
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, I mean, it can vary quite quite a lot.
• 16:37
  Ash Ramachandran: A sapien test with a Medicare rebate would be just over $100.
• 16:40
  Ash Ramachandran: And going into a lab would typically cost you between $200 to $500.
• 16:46
  Ash Ramachandran: And there are more advanced tests that we do with sapien, like DNA fragmentation testing in Australia, which costs about $399 with sapien.
• 16:54
  Ash Ramachandran: And most labs don't even offer it.
• 16:57
  Ash Ramachandran: And the labs that do offer it, funnily enough, I was uh at Fazan's the conference in Adelaide about last week.
• 17:04
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah.
• 17:04
  Ash Ramachandran: And there was a clinic in Newcastle that said to us, oh yeah, these samples have to be shipped on dry ice.
• 17:10
  Ash Ramachandran: And it typically costs the patient about $450 to do the test, but also we charge them an additional thousand dollars to transport it.
• 17:17
  Ash Ramachandran: Right.
• 17:18
  Ash Ramachandran: Because the labs don't actually do the testing then and there.
• 17:21
  Ash Ramachandran: They have to ship it to a specialized lab that has the ability to do the testing.
• 17:24
  Ash Ramachandran: With Sapien, the easiest thing is you can collect a sample at home, pack it back into our box, go to an Australia Post location and put it into an express post bin.
• 17:34
  Ash Ramachandran: And that means your sample reaches a specialized lab that's NATO accredited that can do your analysis or without having to pay for dry shippers and pay for the inconvenience of time and energy.
• 17:47
  Liz Walton: That's just magic, isn't it?
• 17:49
  Liz Walton: It's pretty amazing.
• 17:50
  Liz Walton: And it just it's really saves the end user.
• 17:53
  Liz Walton: So you do your DNA fragmentation as well as the sperm test and um from far less than the lab.
• 18:00
  Liz Walton: Well, if that Newcastle place decided to take on your products.
• 18:05
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, well, I mean, it costs patients thousands of dollars typically to get fertility assessments, unfortunately, because of how archaic the infrastructure is.
• 18:13
  Ash Ramachandran: I mentioned about less than 20 labs in the country that'll do a seam analysis for a large-scale lab network.
• 18:18
  Ash Ramachandran: And that means labs in remote areas and IVF planics in remote areas have no choice but to collect the sample there and ship it.
• 18:25
  Ash Ramachandran: And that shipping cost is typically laid on to the patient.
• 18:29
  Liz Walton: Yes.
• 18:29
  Liz Walton: Yes, I suppose it is.
• 18:31
  Liz Walton: Someone has to pay for it, yeah.
• 18:32
  Liz Walton: So just so that I understand, and you said earlier on, usually you have to have an hour to be able to test the semen.
• 18:41
  Liz Walton: So for you, is that a dry test?
• 18:43
  Liz Walton: How do you manage to do that in your time uh time space?
• 18:50
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, so sapience, the test kit includes a proprietary, a pattern pending medium.
• 18:55
  Ash Ramachandran: And the medium, when incorporated with sperm samples, increases the viability of sperm from one hour to three days.
• 19:02
  Ash Ramachandran: And it makes it possible for the sperm sample to be tested as though it was a fresh sample produced at a lab up to three days later.
• 19:09
  Ash Ramachandran: So all you do is collect a sample, incorporate it with our medium, which all comes in the kit.
• 19:13
  Ash Ramachandran: The kit also comes with a return label, and you slap the return label on the box, drop it at an Australia post location, goes back into a specialized lab for analysis, and a result that resembles time equal to zero collection conditions.
• 19:30
  Liz Walton: Gosh, that's pretty well magic.
• 19:32
  Liz Walton: And uh sorry, I was trying to figure out how you do it.
• 19:34
  Liz Walton: So there's that medium that allows it to last longer for up to three days.
• 19:37
  Liz Walton: That's um that's the key.
• 19:41
  Ash Ramachandran: Exactly.
• 19:41
  Ash Ramachandran: Sperms stop moving about an hour after collection with sapien.
• 19:47
  Ash Ramachandran: We mimic the conditions of the human female reproductive tract using the sapien media, and it's the only area naturally where sperm survive beyond the one hour mark.
• 19:56
  Ash Ramachandran: So by mimicking the conditions, you're effectively keeping the sperm moving during transport.
• 20:02
  Liz Walton: That's right, because sperm can live up to several days in um a female body.
• 20:07
  Ash Ramachandran: Exactly.
• 20:08
  Liz Walton: Wow, you are beyond author.
• 20:10
  Liz Walton: I love this.
• 20:12
  Liz Walton: So what's what's all the feedback you must be?
• 20:15
  Liz Walton: So, how long has Sabi Sapien been out then?
• 20:19
  Liz Walton: And then what's your feedback?
• 20:21
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, we launched the company about three and a half years ago.
• 20:23
  Ash Ramachandran: And we've now we we now work with IVF clinics all around the world.
• 20:28
  Ash Ramachandran: Um, the likes of EVRMA and Create, based out of the UK, to Monash IVS, number one fertility in Newcastle, um, a new life fertility as well in Australia.
• 20:39
  Ash Ramachandran: So a growing number of clinics all around the country have come up and recognize the value that this brings to male patients.
• 20:45
  Ash Ramachandran: And equally, from a male patient side and a couples side, we've had massive support from patients reaching out to us directly and buying products on our website because it does serve a fundamental necessity for most of these patients, either from an affordability standpoint or from uh an experience standpoint.
• 21:02
  Ash Ramachandran: And oftentimes people would much rather do a test from the comfort of home.
• 21:05
  Ash Ramachandran: And over 95% of men will rather do a comfort, a comfortable test from home as opposed to take a day off from work and have a strenuous experience.
• 21:15
  Liz Walton: Yeah.
• 21:15
  Liz Walton: That doesn't have to be the wayful and awkward.
• 21:18
  Liz Walton: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:19
  Liz Walton: So yeah, I think that's that's that's you know, it's just amazing.
• 21:23
  Liz Walton: Um, and it just takes all the difficulty, uncomfortableness out of it.
• 21:29
  Liz Walton: You get your test kit and you can go home and do it and you know, post it off and bish bash bosh.
• 21:35
  Ash Ramachandran: Exactly.
• 21:36
  Liz Walton: So to speak.
• 21:37
  Liz Walton: So um what's so what's all the feedback?
• 21:41
  Liz Walton: I mean, everyone must be so excited that you've created this amazing product.
• 21:46
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, look, I mean, I think most often women are more thankful for it than most men are.
• 21:51
  Ash Ramachandran: And the reason why I say that is oftentimes when you meet women at the beginning of their IBF cycle, people typically tell you the hardest thing they've had to do, unfortunately, is convince their male partner to go into the clinic and collect a sperm sample.
• 22:03
  Ash Ramachandran: Um, I feel like most men need to step up, but at the same time, unfortunately, given the current circumstances, women do feel more excited about the prospect of not having to worry about having to deal with someone else when the most important thing in that moment is whether or not you can get through an IVF cycle.
• 22:19
  Ash Ramachandran: And oftentimes you find as well with an IVF clinic, the wait time for a semi analysis can be several weeks or months.
• 22:25
  Liz Walton: Yeah.
• 22:25
  Ash Ramachandran: Um DNA fragmentation tests in Australia sometimes takes in excess of three months.
• 22:29
  Ash Ramachandran: And parts of the UK can wait up to three years.
• 22:33
  Liz Walton: Wow, really?
• 22:34
  Ash Ramachandran: So when when you're in a waiting list, uh I remember being in Scotland earlier this year, selling into the NHS there, and they said, Oh, semi analysis can take up to three years to receive.
• 22:43
  Ash Ramachandran: We went, hold on.
• 22:44
  Ash Ramachandran: So you can't actually make a timely decision as far as your reproductive health is concerned, because a test can take up to three years to access.
• 22:52
  Ash Ramachandran: Waiting for a medical diagnostic for up to three years sounds bizarre.
• 23:04
  Liz Walton: It does.
• 23:05
  Liz Walton: It seems quite archaic in this day and age, really, and everything.
• 23:08
  Liz Walton: Definitely.
• 23:08
  Liz Walton: You know, you want, you know, almost at the click of a finger.
• 23:11
  Liz Walton: And um, yeah, well, I did not know that.
• 23:15
  Liz Walton: That's um brilliant.
• 23:16
  Liz Walton: So I uh now also with clinics um having access, my curiosity, because I'm you know, I'm I'm a fertility coach, I support others who and um a lot of my female clients, absolutely.
• 23:30
  Liz Walton: Um, not all, but a lot, you know, having to give their their their partner or husband to have a test has for some of them been quite stressful and emotional.
• 23:40
  Liz Walton: So um can do you do you offer this also to say, you know, your your smaller clinics and your you know your solo your solo businesses?
• 23:51
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, we do see a number of fertility coaches, naturopaths, and um smaller IVF clinics as customers of ours as well, effectively because it solves a pretty dramatic problem for them because they don't have access to labs very easily.
• 24:06
  Ash Ramachandran: And you know, a large IVF clinic could always build a lab, but smaller practices don't always have the ability to.
• 24:12
  Ash Ramachandran: So they find the benefit of achieving lab quality analysis at an affordable price point quite appealing.
• 24:21
  Ash Ramachandran: So we do actually have a substantial network of fertility coaches and naturopaths that effectively do refer patients to us consistently.
• 24:28
  Liz Walton: Yeah, well, I will definitely be doing that from now on as well.
• 24:32
  Ash Ramachandran: Appreciate that.
• 24:33
  Liz Walton: Oh my goodness, you know, this could, you know, like solve a problem to quite a lot of my clients.
• 24:37
  Liz Walton: Absolutely.
• 24:38
  Liz Walton: And and the first thing is always get your man tested because then at least you know, you know, either one way or another, a place that where you have to walk.
• 24:48
  Liz Walton: So it's it's it's a really good first thing to do is test test your men.
• 24:53
  Ash Ramachandran: For sure, because female fertility testing is quite difficult and expensive.
• 24:58
  Ash Ramachandran: Right, but male fertility testing can be easy and straightforward and accessible.
• 25:02
  Ash Ramachandran: Um getting 50% of your infertility concerns out the way with an affordable test makes a huge part of a difference.
• 25:11
  Liz Walton: And just so much um, so much less stress for everybody concerned.
• 25:17
  Liz Walton: So um lovely Ash, what would be uh say a top tip or something you would you'd like to leave the listeners with when it comes to male fertility and testing?
• 25:33
  Ash Ramachandran: Um ask your clinician for the right kind of tests and don't wait too long to get tested.
• 25:40
  Ash Ramachandran: I know it sounds like I'm repeating my messages, but the reason why I'm saying this specifically is you come across men that have gone through multiple failed cycles of IVF together with their partner that haven't been provided a DNA fragmentation test or haven't been provided an anti-spam antibody test.
• 25:55
  Ash Ramachandran: And you find out after multiple years that a simple test of that sort could have saved you tens of thousands of dollars ahead of the journey, or at the very least, could have taken you out of IVF and allowed you plenty of time to correct whatever oxidative stress issues or DNA fragmentation issues you've got and go back into IVF or try naturally.
• 26:16
  Ash Ramachandran: Um there is no incentive oftentimes for most clinics to think about um getting you out of the process, but certain tests can provide you really good responses and insight that'll allow you to make a very concrete decision as far as your reproductive health is concerned.
• 26:32
  Liz Walton: Wow.
• 26:33
  Liz Walton: So that is like not just having a sperm test, but having like a deeper, do you mean like a deeper DNA fragmentation test for individuals?
• 26:43
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, I mean a semen analysis or a sperm test is a basis, like the absolute basic tests you need to be doing.
• 26:50
  Ash Ramachandran: And then on top of that, you do have additional tests or advanced tests like DNA fragmentation testing, oxidative stress testing, and so on.
• 26:58
  Ash Ramachandran: You don't need every one of these tests.
• 26:59
  Ash Ramachandran: The DNA fragmentation test is obviously very helpful, but there's also more nuanced analysis that can be done on sperm samples that are can be very affordable.
• 27:07
  Ash Ramachandran: The reason why you'd need them sometimes is when you go through multiple rounds of IVF or you've tried unsuccessfully with a partner for multiple months.
• 27:14
  Ash Ramachandran: There sometimes is a very easily explainable reason why that is.
• 27:18
  Ash Ramachandran: And most clinics, most practitioners don't necessarily test for it.
• 27:23
  Liz Walton: Yeah.
• 27:23
  Ash Ramachandran: Well, primarily because those labs don't have the resources to.
• 27:26
  Ash Ramachandran: So they can't get you to do a DNA fragmentation test because their lab doesn't do it.
• 27:31
  Liz Walton: Yes, well, that would make sense.
• 27:32
  Liz Walton: Yes.
• 27:33
  Liz Walton: So then, so then it really is up to the individual asking for those more specific sperm tests.
• 27:39
  Liz Walton: Is that what you mean?
• 27:40
  Ash Ramachandran: Yeah, I mean, if you're finding that you're not able to naturally conceive or go through IVFN without success, definitely get more insight.
• 27:48
  Ash Ramachandran: Ask for the right types of tests and do your research.
• 27:51
  Ash Ramachandran: Um, there is a lot of merit to appreciating the details that your doctor has to provide you, and oftentimes they're right.
• 27:58
  Ash Ramachandran: But certain other times their decisions are based on what tests they have available to them in the catalogue of their testing labs.
• 28:05
  Ash Ramachandran: So it always is helpful to look a little bit further away from what advice you're being provided in your close network and get more comprehensive analysis so you can save yourself lots of money and time and effort and make the right choices earlier.
• 28:19
  Liz Walton: Yeah.
• 28:20
  Liz Walton: Well, I love that.
• 28:22
  Liz Walton: I think that's a really good thing to finish with.
• 28:24
  Liz Walton: You know, make sure if it's not been working for a while, check and make sure you ask for those, the right type of tests for semen analysis.
• 28:32
  Liz Walton: That's a good top tip to leave with.
• 28:35
  Liz Walton: So, um, Ash, I know that you are a super busy man doing amazing things in this world.
• 28:43
  Liz Walton: I really want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for this conversation today.
• 28:47
  Liz Walton: I think it's been really fruitful and about giving a deeper um understanding of well, take home men tests, really.
• 28:58
  Ash Ramachandran: Thank you so much for making the time, Liz.
• 28:59
  Ash Ramachandran: I really appreciate it having a chat with you as well.
• 29:01
  Liz Walton: Oh, thank you so much.
• 29:03
  Liz Walton: So you take care.
• 29:04
  Liz Walton: I really look forward to seeing you at the fertility, the Melbourne Fertility Summit, which is happening on the 8th of November.
• 29:11
  Liz Walton: And um for all of our listeners out there, if you have questions, come and find out.
• 29:16
  Liz Walton: If your man is having issues with fertility, or you know, if you're if you're a man and you want to find out about your fertility, come along and um discover sapien and the take-home test kits because they'll be there to talk to, as well as being um on the male fertility panel, and I think as well as a speaker.
• 29:35
  Liz Walton: So I'm really excited to meet you in person and also just to hear you speak, because you speak very well, Ash.
• 29:43
  Ash Ramachandran: I appreciate it.
• 29:44
  Ash Ramachandran: Thanks, Les.
• 29:44
  Ash Ramachandran: Definitely looking forward to being at the show as well.
• 29:47
  Liz Walton: Me too.
• 29:48
  Liz Walton: All right, my lovely.
• 29:49
  Liz Walton: Thank you once again.
• 29:50
  Liz Walton: And with that, we will bid you um, we we will bid you adieu, as they say.
• 29:54
  Liz Walton: Thank you for your time.
• 29:56
  Liz Walton: And um, I think to leave where there's um remember if there's Things aren't working to ask.
• 30:01
  Liz Walton: I ask for those the right type of tests for your semen analysis.
• 30:06
  Helen Zee: And with that, sending you lots of love to everybody out there.
• 30:09
  Helen Zee: Thanks for joining us at the Home of Fertility.
• 30:14
  Helen Zee: We hope today's episode brought you clarity, comfort, and connection.
• 30:20
  Liz Walton: If this podcast resonated, please share it.
• 30:24
  Liz Walton: Leave a review or subscribe.
• 30:26
  Liz Walton: This helps us support more people that are on this path.
• 30:30
  Helen Zee: And if you'd like to connect or share your story, find us on Instagram and Facebook at Australian Fertility Summit.
• 30:39
  Liz Walton: Remember the missing piece might be waiting in a story, your body's wisdom, or something new just made for you.
• 30:48
  Liz Walton: Take care.
• 30:48
  Liz Walton: Take care, and we'll see you next time.