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High Risk Payment Processing for Hemp & CBD Brands with Henry Mashburn | Ready To Drink Podcast · Ready To Drink Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Henry Mashburn.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I am an executive at a company called Alternative Horizons Group.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little bit of a newer uh payment processing firm, but I've been in the industry, uh the CBD and Hem for the last uh seven, uh seven years on you know my side of the space.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm you know chief sales, chief relationship officer um at my firm, but one of the original co-founders.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, excellent.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: All right, perfect.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I will uh give it a little credit before we jump in.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks to Floathouse for introducing us, uh Gordon and Jared over there a while ago.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad we were able to get the time together.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: So let's give the audience kind of a cloud flyover of what it is like that you guys do specifically, but also to let everybody know that may not be within the industry on the back end, what payment processing does and kind of what that means on an everyday basis.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so payment processing, and and it was so funny, it's it's an industry that nobody really knows about, and it's an industry that not a lot of importance is you know put on by a lot of other industries, but there's some industries that it's kind of the core of whether a business can you know succeed or you know, based on the relationships that they choose, uh fail.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: But the the the overall you know explanation for it is the the world of transactions is massive, right?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's an extremely fragmented industry.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: When you think about how many transactions there are daily, there are probably billions, uh would say weekly, potentially trillions, you know, at the global level.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: But in the the the way in which we play is what we call, and I say this with quotes, right?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's you know acumen from our knowledge.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't actually align with the verbiage whatsoever, besides the the reputational risk that these you know banks kind of decide on a whim.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: But uh we target high-risk industries.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: C BD and hemp was actually my first regulated industry that I jumped into um, you know, pretty, pretty early on in my career.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I've seen it go from CBD and CBG flower online to kind of the whole entire awesome ecosystem, you know, that we see alive today, that you know, obviously is not in the ideal scenario here in November.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: But we've been a part of these waves, man.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: This has happened so many different times.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, this is the most the furthest that it's made for for uh you know, an unlike or not a good situation for us.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: But our main uh way that we play in payment processing and how we represent our clients is we are basically the liaison for our customers and our clients between them and the bank.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: So there's multiple banks in our ecosystem.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: What they call them are acquiring or sponsor banks.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: And what that simply means is that they're sponsoring the merchant that's getting approved at their business for getting deposited the credit card transactions or the ACH transactions that they're um that they're receiving from their customers, right?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm customer A, Nate, your business, your Nate's hemp beverages online.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: I go to your website, I love the five milligram beverage that you have.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: I check out with my credit card.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: That basically gets batched, goes to that bank, and then they deposit it in your account.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it's basically the audit trail to ensure that the the that the um the goods that a business is selling and getting payment on are good business, which of course 99.9% of them are, but there are these.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is why this layer exists, because you know it's the 0.1% that isn't good that kind of ruins it for uh for everybody else, like anything else in uh in life.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: And uh they're the ones that then go ahead and ACH them uh their funds based on the goods or services that they're uh selling.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of I try that's like the simplest way that I can kind of explain it, but it's kind of playing like uh a double agent in the Cold War, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like the US is the bank, the merchant is Russia, and you're kind of trying to get both of them to work together and ensure you know a long-term relationship.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now, are you guys uh I'll remind everybody as well, there's no script and no, there's no agenda.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: I did not do any homework other than the email that I saw where we were introduced.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I knew they said payment processing in the email.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Are you e-commerce only?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Are you also in the point of purchase at the registers and retail?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're all above, man.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, um, it really just depends on what the customer needs or wants, or sometimes what we see is what they don't know what they want yet.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of where our expertise can come in and be very um fruitful or helpful from what I've seen so far.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, most of our business is focused on what we call uh the acronym is CNP.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: It just stands for card not present.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: And what that means is when the transaction is being made, the merchant on the other end isn't present seeing who is on the other side making that transaction.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that mostly is e-commerce, but it also can be a lot of B2B, right?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Where we can integrate with like FreshBooks or QuickBooks, Go High Level, Salesforce, HubSpot, however that B2B team is operating.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: But we do really enjoy working with retailers as well.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: So we do have a bunch of different point of sale systems and terminals, again, just based on you know their needs that we can kind of bring to the table and you know give diversity.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now we have a lot of distributors in the wholesale world that listen and watch the show.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Are you do you work in that level as well with wholesale distribution as far as D2B goes?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Mostly with independence.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And again, it just really depends on their business model because a lot of the bigger distributors that come to me that are doing like 200k wires or 300k wires, I'm like, listen, I would love for you to take credit cards because I'd make a ton of money, but it probably doesn't make sense for your business, right?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of those individuals can do ACH's or uh bank wires directly from bank to bank.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that's not really a world that we play in too much.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: But again, there are a ton of independent distribution companies that either use ACH or credit card, and that's where we can go in there and consult them on the best way to take those transactions to make sure that their bottom line isn't really taking a hit, just because credit cards you get, you get you take a payment and you have cash flow the next day.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: ACH is in wires.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: You usually have to wait a few days to get your deposit.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that's depending on your business model or if you need the cash, it'll be more attractive to take one over the other, even though you're paying a fee based on future receivables.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about your story, Henry.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what what are you how what kind of got you into this world?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: At what age were you at the time, and what was the environment of your life going on?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'll let sometimes people get real vulnerable and tell it all.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever you want to share, man.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, man.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a I'm a I'm an open book, which sometimes is a really good thing.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then as I find out, it can also be a bad thing because being a little too uh uh transparent.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: But most people in payments, they they fall into this industry completely by accident.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: And once we we kind of call it the mafia, you know, once you get in, you kind of never get out just because, especially if you, you know, you want to grind and you're consistent, you're good to people, you know how to build credibility.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that it's easy to succeed, but the foundation is laid and you just have to kind of get in there and run a thousand miles towards it.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: My my background is definitely a little bit uh diverse.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up in, even though my last name is Mashburn, which is very American, and it's because it is.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I was actually born in Lima, Peru.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, my dad was a geologist, so I I probably I lived in about three different countries before moving to the US when I was um 11 years old.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh places like Lima, Peru, uh, where my mom is from, which is Honduras, I've lived there as well.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I also lived in a really cool place and not a lot of people know called Suriname.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: So there's three countries north of Brazil that nobody really knows about, to the, excuse me, to the east of Venezuela and Colombia.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the country in the middle, which is actually an old Dutch colony.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Their main language is Dutch, but a lot of people uh speak English, obviously very exotic regions based on my dad's career, which you know paid, you know, in a lot of benefits for me in the future because I saw so many different cultures before I even knew who I really was as a teenager or younger, uh, young adult.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't really see a lot of differences in people from different cultures, different colors, different acumen.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: It was all just kind of the same to me.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like people were people and they're different.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of what I grew up with.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, then I moved to Florida when I was 11.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: And uh when I got here when I was 11, I really started to pick up on a passion, which was my uh how do they call it in Europe, football, but in soccer, uh in the US, excuse me, soccer.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: I picked up on my soccer career and kind of made it through the ranks here locally in in the state of Florida.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was a goalie, started at a team locally and kind of just made it from the bottom all the way to the top.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was very fortunate to play for uh my mother's maiden country, which is Honduras, in a U17 World Cup in 2015 and a U-20 World Cup in South Korea in 2017, that again just extended my confidence in my abilities and with within myself and whatever that I whatever that I did.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then I got really fortunate based on that experience, um, that University of Michigan came knocking on the door with with a scholarship, you know, picked me up as you know, their goalie.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I wasn't supposed to play, you know, I was the fourth string, you know, coming in and kind of had again, there's always this underdog story in my life and kind of overcoming barriers.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: And uh eventually I started playing, you know, halfway through my freshman year, and then I played every single minute through that.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I studied neuroscience and pharmacology and alternative wellness, which I had no idea that it would be so helpful today in the career that I've in the in the company that I have today.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but after there's those four, four uh the first four years, I was supposed to go work as striker as your typical pharmaceuticals rep, but I had some internal family, you know, just dynamics and and dramas having to do with alcoholism and you know some of the opioids that kind of came from the Purdue family back in the day.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I just had there, there was just a there's no there's just a disinterest in jumping into that and just being able to make a lot of money doing those types of things.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh my old company was owned by a Umish alum and they kind of came up came knocking at the door at the last second.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea what payment processing was, I didn't even know it existed.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, hey, I'm gonna go take the sales job and I'm just gonna learn how to sell myself and then eventually, you know, go get a master's in something and kind of figure out my life.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: And the second I started at the company is when most of the banks in our world started opening up to CBD and hemp.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd been uh a big advocate of cannabis.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'd used it for the sporting side, stress relief, um, you know, joint pain, back pain.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, I kind of saw an opportunity because I remember I had met other people from that industry and I understood that they're not that their acumen wasn't the best, but their acumen when it came to the financial world wasn't really the best because they were being taken advantage of and no one really cared to explain things thoroughly to them.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: So they kind of had to, so they kind of learned how to operate within guardrails to really be able to, you know, scale and grow.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, being the soccer player, especially a goalie, my diverse culture, then what I studied, you know, coming into the the payment processing position at that company really made my success as a young man.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: I was 22, uh I'm 22 at that time, I'm 27 now.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, I was uh excuse me, I was 21 at the time, I'm 27 now.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: It really accelerated my growth, right?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I slowly within a year, year and a half, you know, became the number one sales rep, kind of you know, brought all these different C BD and hemp businesses, and we kind of created a really nice hub for C BD and hemp and some of the other adaptogens and botanicals, you know, the Kratoms, the Kavas, mushrooms, and all these other products that kind of brought wellness uh to people, at least you know, from experiences in my uh personal life.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's it's easy to talk shop with a C BD and hemp business owner when you know a little bit more of the science of the products than they do.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, oh my God, this payments guy isn't just trying to take my money.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: He actually understands what I'm going through, my business, the medical side, the scientific side.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then I just turned the the French, uh, the French of the payments processing space into English for them so they had easier understanding.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that just kind of catapulted my growth, as I said.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then I started, you know, to diversify into other industries like cannabis seeds, clones, genetics, mycology, anything that was kind of within the alternative wellness realm that was really hurting in the payment processing uh space just because of how people in my space kind of are, you know, they like to take advantage of people.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of money that can be made, and they just kind of care about that.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And they're they look at short-term gains over long-term gains, which is the opposite approach that we have.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, we had a really good time at that company, you know, really liked their executives, had a lot of good things to say, but we were just starting to slowly, you know, outgrow our sales position.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, the CEO also saw that.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: He offered us uh to start our own internal uh payments business in there, and he made he's a really good negotiator, so he came out with a really good contract from his end, but it just wasn't as attractive as possible from our perspective.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we decided to exit the exit that business and uh kind of create Alternative Horizons group about two years ago, and it's been very um it's been very successful, man.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not not only successful, obviously, because of the owners and people like Michael and you know the employees that we brought in that have just been fantastic to work with and A players, but you know, also because of the way in which we you know we care about people and how we carry ourselves and kind of what we've learned from one of the bigger payment processing companies, exactly what not to do to service individuals.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that we kind of already knew people and people already knew us through like the Hemp Beverage Alliance.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm an advisory board member there, the US Hemp Roundtable, the AHA, and a bunch of different organizations.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it took a little bit to ramp up, but since we started ramping up about nine months ago, it just hasn't stopped.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of it's kind of unbelievable, you know, sitting here working with quality people like Michael and people on our team, and we've been able to create, you know, a really nice ecosystem where we can really scale and kind of go to the go to the next level.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And the only thing that's kind of uh bearing us or weighing down on us in that world is November, right?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's kind of what we built our whole entire company through.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously we have diversification plans, and there's a lot of things going with Schedule three on the medical side where we're gonna be able to play and then schedule three later this year, hopefully in in July.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: But that's kind of you know the A to Z on you know where I came from, where I'm from, my background, and how it's led to us being successful with our payment processing firm and luckily working with really, really awesome business owners in this industry that you know have helped us grow because we grow when our customers grow.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: So anything that we can do to help them in that domain really allows us to shine as well.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's important what you just said there at the end, which uh which is it's important to have your you know your retail grow.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times people don't realize for those of us that are in the service business, that's what we do all day long.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: The podcast is something we do on the side and everything like that, but really our business is strategy and market development with local independent and chains and everything like that.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the the stress we need to put onto the public too is like we those that you can that make statements like that, you can tell that they respect their retail partners because without the retail partner, we don't exist.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Us the service business doesn't exist and we're irrelevant.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we do have their best interest in it because we need them to be sustainable and thriving.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm very lucky, Nate.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm very lucky that the space that I'm in, and I'm even luckier that nobody in my industry looks at it, looks at it this way.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're really helping e-commerce, a retail business, or a B2B business grow and they're taking credit cards, the only other person that's making more money to the side of your customer is the payment processor.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really where our business model aligns, is we really look we got a residual every month off of somebody's sales, uh, and we look at that as them keeping us on retainer.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: And what that allows us to do is really die, you know, dive into all these other aspects of their business, right?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Payment processing isn't what gets me out of bed, nor do I want it to be what gets me out of bed.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: That would be a very boring life, even if, even though it's such an important industry.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: But the ability to just learn commerce uh in these specific niches because of the payments data that we get shows us so much signaling from you know 14 to 15 different parts of our business and of their business, excuse me.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we've been able to go out and find those other ancillary services and solutions that kind of match our um our acumen or our strategy when it comes to these businesses.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then we get to align these business owners with those people, if it's from a growth or reduction perspective, or going and lobbying for them in DC, and then just seeing their payments data rise and seeing them scale and see how happy they they they are once they kind of go through that process, is really what you know fuels our business today.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, without them, we would be nothing, man.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what a lot of payments people kind of tend to forget is the only reason you're here is because another business owner is trusting us.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: And we've just been very, very um, we're very, very humbled and thank and thankful for the businesses that trust us today.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the reason why we've grown so quickly within this two-year mark.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you, one of the funny parts about like risk management, and I'm just gonna say it's funny and put humor on the risk management stress that you and I and everybody else in this industry feels every day.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: But when when three years ago I was working on a project with a payment processing company to remain unnamed nameless in this conversation, they um they didn't want to touch anything with hemp.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it was so weird in the in the board meeting.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was a big company, so like it was board meetings, Zooms, all that stuff three years ago.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it really it it made me turn it turn, it was one of the contributing factors that made my assistant and project with them get shorter.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because not only that, it combos with everything else you just said as well.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Everything was short term.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: So they literally throw you a territory, and within 30 days, if you weren't pulling an X amount of stuff, they didn't care.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm and I'm sitting there in these meetings and I'm like, we're right out of COVID, trust is at zero, and we're you know, I mean we're supposed to do this, this, and this, and then convert over a 5,000 skew inventory or 10,000 skew inventory to mom and pop.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it you know is just recovering from COVID and now we want to come after him with a with a service.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: I said that's really challenging to do.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and um the detachment of that is was the disappointing part, and it became a principled and passion where I just had no principle and passion in what I was doing with them.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: And in the past three years, it's been a big peace of mind where people have to, I don't care what the money is, they have to be aligned with what I'm doing in order to do for me to be able to wake up in the morning like exactly like you just said.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm taking my head off the pillow, it's because I passionately want to do something, it's not it's not because of the paycheck.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Those days are those days are fine.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like the paycheck.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if I mean if you do things right in business, at least from the people that I've seen and I've worked with, and you do it long enough, the money always comes, man.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's how how does the money come that I believe leads to long-term happiness?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Does it come in because you're litigating against 20 people and you're the lawyer, you're the CEO of the company, but you also have a law degree and you can show up every single time and like run people of their money and win money?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Are you screwing people over?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Are you making quick short-term gains by taking advantage of people?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Are you or or are you all are you building a foundation for long-term success for you and your customers where your company's gonna be around for a long time?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's yeah, you know, that's kind of our vision is you know, we don't we don't care about short-term cash flow gains.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: We only care about the long-term, and that's how we started two years ago.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we're really starting to feel the positives of having that mentality and mindset just because we keep on growing.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like I look at our numbers as a company and we just keep on growing, you know, 30% month over month, 20%, 40%.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: We're already up through the payments going through us 10% today, with a lot of other people hearing about us and wanting to work with us.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just because we've done the right thing and we we look for those long-term relationships.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, we don't have we don't even have contracts at our businessman.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we have a 95% retention rate because we don't force people to work with us.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: We want people to feel like they're in the decision-making um position when it comes to payment processing, and we're a vehicle for that that allows them to be in control of their relationship with the bank because they have somebody in between that is really allowing them to stay in that position by by communicating with the bank correctly on what they're doing, how fast are they scaling, what new SKUs are they selling?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Are they changing their business model?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Always communicating with them, what the merchant gives to us to ensure that they don't have any of these issues and horror stories that you hear about all the time uh in this industry and in other uh regulated industries, unfortunately.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: What are um, you know, not you not in a sales aspect, we're not trying to pitch the audience, but uh give advice to the audience about if they're being approached by a payment processing company.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: What are some good questions that they could ask that were if they're that way they're not overwhelmed, but they could also be like, you know, some sort of flagging or anything like that where they could get a good snapshot about whether or not that's the right path for them.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of people in the payment space are gonna hate me for some of these, but I am totally fine, totally fine with that because a lot of them are.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: You're good, yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they can they kind of don't don't like me already because I take a lot of business for them and I will keep that up as long as the niches I target like me.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's all I uh I care about.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: But definitely some good questions is, and even before you get to the questions, you want to make sure that you're going to a processor or an agent uh shop like mine that really understands your niche, right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, not that they only know what CBD or THCA flower is, you want them to really understand the scientific side, the legislative landscape and kind of what it's looked like over the last few years.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Where can you ship to?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Where can't you ship to?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Where can you sell retail?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: What are some strategies, you know, around that, right?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: If you're if your agent already doesn't have a good grasp on your industry, that should indicate to you that it's already not going to be a good experience.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you'd be surprised, man.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I've talked to some brands this week and last week, and these are like, I wish I could say their names because you'd be like, wow, I know who that is.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: But they've been around in the industry for six, seven years.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I die, and I know a lot of people, competitors of mine that play in this space, and a lot of them are really good at what they do, but I come across these brands and I'm like, the banks and the processors you're with don't even support your industry anymore.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: And you got and you're grandfathered in and you're still processing, they don't even know the name of their agent, and they don't know where to find their reporting, their processing statements, what their fees look like.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's all this craziness.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I was, you know, sharing with Michael because he's new to this team.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, the opportunity is massive with these companies that have been around seven, eight years and they don't even know these things.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: So that's number one.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's the biggest indicator.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Number two is understanding the sponsor bank that they're placing you at.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, and to kind of explain that, I'll give you like the corporate ladder of our um industry.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: So there's uh the bottom layer, which is where I live and exist and where I love to be, is the the agent groups, right?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: We're the ones talking to the owners, getting their paperwork, and we're sending them to the Next layer, which is the payment processors, right?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: These are the uh the wholesalers, or they are the processors that are owned by banks directly.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: We like to work with the ones that are owned by banks because we can go talk to the board and do a little bit more of um there, there's more situational things that come up and we can remedy them or solve them or kind of create things that fit the business model of the merchants a little bit better.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Above them is the sponsor banks.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: So they're the sponsor banks are the ones that actually decide everything, and they're the ones that make us, the processes and the agent groups, enforce and take on the liability and kind of get the hate from the market depending on what goes on.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: But they're always the deciding ones, but they decide based on somebody else, which is the card brands, right?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you want to make sure that whoever your agent group or processor are, because they're we're one level above a below them, but we kind of act next to them because we have so many relationships and we've done so well with them that they kind of treat us as internal guys because we also protect them from other bad players and actors and some of these other niches.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: But you want to make sure that that processor is aligned with their sponsor bank when it comes to the industry and how long they're going to be playing in certain regulated industries when we get into a situation like today.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so sponsor bank is the second one.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: A third one is something that is very important, and a lot of people don't even know what it is or how it makes sense, which is the acronym is MCC.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: That stands for merchant category code.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the code that you get from a processor or bank when you get approved.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of like your your risk mitigation number when it comes to the ether of the payment processing world.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because, for example, let's go back to to Nate's Hemp Company.com.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm Visa or MasterCard and I have a ghost buyer go to your website, we'll go, we'll run the transaction, we'll get the product, you know, we'll look at the back end of everything in our world and we'll see, okay, so Nate's Hemp Beverages, you know, are at this retail or at this bank, this is what they got approved at.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Their merchant category code is 5499 or 5999, which are the two most popular for CBD and hemp and the CPG category, and they see that you got underwritten as that, you're good to go and process, right?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And these audits happen all the time.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: So you want to make sure that whoever is placing you is also giving you a true merchant category code because it allows you to pass any audits that you might get that you have no idea that are even um going on.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, another one, too, is you want to make ensure that they have a strong um support team.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Transactions, there's billions of transactions that happen in day, mate.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: So something's gonna go wrong, and something will go wrong when you least expect it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I tell my customers, even with me, I can do the best job in the world, but just because there's so many transactions going on, the risk of occurring is it exists, right?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: So you want to make sure that you have that operating group, that trust, that relationship.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you go down on Friday at 5, 6 p.m., you're gonna have somebody to support you so you don't miss out on your sales for the weekend, and you don't have to wait till Monday at 9 a.m.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I uh had a call with another merchant last night, and this occurred to him, and that's why he got referred over to me, is he went out on 419 last month.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: He was down from 419 to 424, and he missed out on$155,000.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever the profit is of that, I have no idea.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: But just from a revenue perspective, I would I would faint as a business owner if that happened to me.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I had uh when I when I was in it, I was opening up an art gallery, a very high-land art gallery.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then the reason I got the lead and then was told by somebody else to go down, there was the same exact thing.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: There was a first Friday, which is like their biggest of a day of the month, and their system went down 30 minutes before it started.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so they were doing they had to do cash only or checks or whatever that night, and it was just it just didn't work because the value of the of the art that they had, and then the people who didn't come back, you know.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're like, Oh, I'll be back tomorrow.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then you know, you sleep on that chair on the other side, I'll tell you how to payment processing.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: We don't like consumers to go home and think about things like that too long, you know.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: We only want them to make their decision when they can.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: So no, this is uh this is a really fascinating thing, and I really appreciate what you're doing.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say it on behalf of the industry because working inside of it as well as as as another service case, a lot of people don't realize the risk that we take.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just because we are in other industries and things like that, that should show you that we are intentionally here.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I a lot of times people ask me, well, like, you know, you're in hemp, is no big deal, you know, this and that with alcohol.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, I've been spent 22 years, I'll be 22 years this summer in the alcohol business.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can go back to it, but I choose this risk because I believe in what this is, and I think that's where there's a whole nother factor of service providers that need to more embrace that and wear that as a badge and not as an egotistical thing, but really as a as a differentiator from others and be like, we're choosing risk intentionally.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: I even have uh talking about like wearing it proudly, right?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I might have I might have it on my desk.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: I might have put it in the backpack, but even small little things like the HBA pin, you know, on my desk.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I keep mine on my blazer, yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to uh you know, we'll we'll be in Austin soon, and like we we put it on, right?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: See you in a couple weeks, man.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, man, because we're not even there.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, look, listen, if someone's there and they want to do business with me, I'm a business owner, I'm here for profit or revenue, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm gonna say yes to it.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: We're not dumb, right?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: But we're not going there to like actually go and win business, we're going there to see how our partners are doing, see how our brands are doing, seeing how you know we can help other people, or there's people in their network that we can also assist in different ways.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not only how can we go in there and you know close as many merchant accounts as possible, probably 90% of my business today has come from me helping somebody else with another aspect of their business.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then they turn over to me and they're like, My payment processor hasn't even called me in six months, and you're doing this.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why the heck am I not working with you?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: And those are like small little things too that stand out, like and just in just in business and in anything in general, it's like going up and above.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so into the hemp space, honestly, more than I'm into the payment space.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, I don't even on the financial side and like a lot of different banking relationships and this and that that I have in my world, but it's like we don't even look at the hemp business as risky.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's no real you know risk besides these business owners when it comes to the legislative landscape on their own outside of our world, but it's just more the and it's super annoying, but it's just the the reputational risk that these banks take on.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: And what that pretty much means is if they have a really big you know banking client that has billions of dollars there, and that you know, and this is gonna be a little bit of a stereotype, but he's a southern gentleman, he's a little bit more Republican, you know, he does he's uh cannabis is the devil, you know, marijuana's for those types of people, and he finds out about that, he might take that money and park it somewhere else.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then that bank loses a ton of profits on the secondary market in their world.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of what they more refer, you know, this industry is high risk, it's just the reputational risk.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, with all the customers we've had, they're all way below their 1% chargebacks, and they're all operating and running very legitimate businesses compared to a lot of other mainstream businesses that we work with that aren't as legit when it comes to the data, just what people think about them and reputational risk, you know?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's I'm glad you said that too, because uh, you know, that's what it is, it's portfolio risk.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and especially in the beginning of this, like come in November, I was actually with uh with Chris from the HBA and stuff like that.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: We were in Harrisburg working with the state uh in the Capitol doing a hill climb there.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: With Lackner?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Lackner?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, with Lackner, yeah.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was with him in in the fall, and then uh I just ran into him at the Kraft Brewers Conference uh about two weeks ago, and then I'll see him next week with uh the Pennsylvania uh Food and Food Merchants Association.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we just have a bill called HB 2309 in Pennsylvania, which is a hemp beverage carve out that then opens up so that we can legally sell also in bars and restaurants, and then alcohol distributors can distribute.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Breweries can then manufacture because it's the law right now in Pennsylvania is you cannot have alcohol and hemp in the same premise, the distribution warehouse or manufacturing facility.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we're actually reversing what a lot of everything everybody else is trying to save it from being pulled off the shelf, and we're just still trying to get it on the shelf.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, listen, Chris is awesome, man.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I met I joined the HBA three years ago.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean it was still pretty popular.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, today it's on a whole different pedestal.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there was only like uh, I think there's like 500 or 600, even maybe 900 members today.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: I joined like I was a part of like the first hundred, you know, I like to say, and you know, seeing Chris from where he's gone today to even you know being in Georgia last year and seeing him present in front of a hundred hundreds of people, it was like a surreal moment compared to one of the first HBA shows, which was like 20 or 30 people he was presenting to.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it just shows the you know, I have a lot of love, you know, for Beverage.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, obviously, you know, my world, it's a lot of D2C sales and a lot of retail sales and some different you know channels through distribution.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I really want the D2C, you know, aspect to survive when it comes to November, because that's the that's the the interest that I have in the in the industry.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: But just seeing how all these people have kind of come in and have gotten involved over the last even the last two years and what Beverage has done to main mainstream the industry has been has been fascinating, man.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: And some of the I wish I could say a lot of the people that I work with, I'm not gonna do it out of, you know, our payment processing contracts can't really divulge too much information of my of my customers, but it's some of the brands that have started the last two years that are some of the biggest feet to see, you know, in the in the hemp and cvd industry, and just seeing those guys come in from other industries and you know apply their so their same operating, you know, operating mentality and just seeing them grow and scale and become what they've become today.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's true, true, truly fascinating and just hum humbling that we get to be the team there that becomes the advocate for them at the bank that allows them to kind of grow and scale and you know reach where where they've reached today.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was uh in the fall, it was uh we jump we joined the HBA couple, we're recent joiners, so we're probably one of the newer members.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the reasons is because everything that happened in the fall.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that was one of those things where I've been through those cycles with crap beer.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: We were big, big advocates of that.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: We fought, we fought the big guys, we got our place, and we got to live together in the sandbox.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: So immediately in the fall, once that came through, I was like, all right, I've seen this movie before.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, and I know I know I got the t the thick skin to do it, so we connected and then immediately just jumped right into the Capitol, and then uh a couple of weeks or weeks or so ago, was it we're in DC as well with them.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's one of those things where it's uh it's important, and I think it's uh a lot of times there's still people in this industry, some that I've worked with in the past, that don't have that mentality of the activation.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's a piece that not to differentiate or disparage, but I think that it's lost on the importance of what it is to show volume and show masses when we're trying to stand up for something because a lawmaker, a congressman, a senator, whatever, state representative, having one or two really passionate people that'll take you through, that'll take you a good bit.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: But having 32 passionate people walking into a room or making phone calls and making emails, that really moves the needle.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's a there's a piece there that I love seeing what I'm trying to say is from November till now, me being in the industry where I'm straddling all these different categories within it in my portfolio, all of a sudden we see hemp and alcohol start clashing, and I'm like, oh shit.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I don't know what to do.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I got them all in the house and they're all the kids running.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: And to go even a step further, man, which is so interesting, is even the factions within hemp.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I work and and we say this proud uh uh proudly, we work with all aspects of the space, right?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't say no, we don't say no to anybody.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's only a few that we say no to when it gets very, very synthetic with the the product type.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: Some of those we're not interested in, but when it comes to the whole entire industry, we're open to it, right?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we're a part of every single faction when it comes to the lobbying groups and just seeing how they kind of fight within themselves and me being able to get into the industry and being in the backroom conversations and kind of getting to know these people personally.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's interesting to see how that kind of comes together with big pharma, you know, with big alcohol, with the bourbon lobby and all these other things that are going in DC.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really fascinating, you know, going to DC and kind of seeing that play in front of your eyes, especially as a business owner and an advocate of the industry, you really get a good understanding of what we're what we're up against.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I I love going to DC.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: I went, I forgot how I think it was like 10 to 15 times last year.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, some some independents, a lot with you know, HBA and other organizations.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: I've gone three times this year already and probably will go a few more times.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, it's always fascinating going in there and understanding how much these uh politicians, and I like to call them Whigs, how much how much they don't know, you know, and it's not because they don't know because they're not educated or they're dumb or they don't care, it's just because they don't know what they don't know, and there's so many different things going on like this outside of our industry as well, that that pressure that the industry has really been putting on the last two years has been amazing.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: And even talking to these, you know, politicians about how audited they are in our world, they just have no idea.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: And they think it's just extremely wild, wild west, which it is, you know, to some extent, so is the sugar industry, right?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: And other industries that can kill you even more than you know, CBD and hemp products.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, they just don't have the same reputational risk, but going in there and showing them the underwriting experience that they go with, the approval, the ongoing compliance, the ongoing auditing, it really opens up a lot of their eyes.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I really love going is being able to educate them on aspects of the space that they don't even know exist.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's probably besides just hanging out with awesome people.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I want to I want to name half of them because they're all people that you see on LinkedIn, they're big people on the HBA and the US AP round tables, but just you know, per my relationships with them, I like to kind of keep them a little secret.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's awesome to go with them and just seeing them in action as well and seeing the points that they make.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just I'm sitting there and yes, I'm adding to it, but I'm more there just kind of being fascinated with how the whole entire ecosystem works.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, now it's just you know, kind of hoping and praying that we can get a good result um come November.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because from November to March, at least for our firm, it was uh some some sleepless nights, man.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: It was uh and for the the banks that we're aligned with and that really love this industry, again, I want to name them, but for you know, for privacy purposes, I'm not.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was uh a tough two, three months that we have, just being super concerned for what could happen for a lot of these you know business owners that we'd support today.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's it's it's amazing to see even just go back six months and five months from now, what those infightings and also like other industries, like I was saying with the alcohol to now, at least from what I can say in Pennsylvania and as well, federally now the alignment of alcohol has kind of come into play.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's such a it's kind of like a you know, it's kind of when everybody went away and then everybody kind of came back in.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes me feel so much better now because that's what I wanted from the beginning.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because as a service provider of both, I saw the parallels and I saw the universalness of the two.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like trying so hard with that magnetic force, and now all of a sudden it's connected.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I want more service providers to sometimes in our industry we step back and we allow brands to do all the work.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we and sometimes we we say we don't we don't want to get involved, we don't want to get involved.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's certain situations where, especially with this, that I feel like people like yourself, myself, and other service providers I talk to, that's where our skill set of being service providers, we're bridges, like we're natural bridges, whether it be from retail to distributors to banks, like that's what we do.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're not linearly one way, and it's not one or the other is better, but it's a special skill set when there's negotiations, when there's conflict, when there's different aspects that are going on.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, out to the audience of service providers, if you're not active in your traders organizations of whatever industry you're in, because you don't feel like you should be, because you're not a brand or you're not a distributor, it's the opposite.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope that from this conversation with Henry and I, you can see how active we are, especially how active Henry is, and also be able to see that that is something that they need that value because it's a different perspective, because we tend to see things more a little bit differently than everybody else, because we have to work interdependently and interdepartmentally, and we're more of like uh floating utility men that have a little wider of a perspective sometimes.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and like even to talk about some that are doing a good job, right?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: I really like the uh the advisory board we have going on.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we have perfectly dosed, you know, Alex and Liam and their team, freaking awesome.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: We have Evg Xtracks with Josh and his team as well.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: We have Peter with uh Frontier Risk.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think his name's Justin, the individual that's more your world, a little bit more than mine.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a Southern Crown uh distributors or southern crown partners.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: I know they're massive, but I always it's just not my world, and I know I've gotten it before, and Justin's giving me side eyes.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to make sure I get it, I get it right.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, those are just again, those are the ones doing it right uh with us shoulder to shoulder and really pushing.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: But again, they're only a few compared to so many different other ones.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's always what I tell a lot of my relationships.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, going back to our business model where we introduce to a lot of different ancillary solutions and services, that's how we get most of our business today is through introductions.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: But it's because we introduce so much to other people that can help these customers.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, when I look at the data sets that some of these marketing companies or agencies have, these fulfillment centers, some of these other manufacturing centers, these subscription companies, these aid verification companies, there's so much more out there that could, you know, give some really good internal insight.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I get it, you're busy, you play in other industries, you know, I'm a human too, I get it.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm not gonna throw shade on people, but sometimes I don't understand why they don't want to play in.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: And even one small example, and um, they they do they do participate because they have a relationship with the US hemp round table.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: And this is like an aspect of someone doing it the right way.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's one relationship called Blue Check Verified.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a massive fan of theirs uh when it comes to what they do, and it's an aid verification software, and it's really good for e-commerce companies because it actually doesn't stop you.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you have to be 21 to get to the website, but it doesn't stop you on the website from converting because it's picking up on your IP address and it's matching that with all of your social and your insurance information.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it's already finding out that you're not 21.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: And if you try to go to the website and you're not 21, it doesn't even let you get there.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: But if you are 21, it does let you get there and it does allow and convert.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: So there are a lot of um um people out there that kind of you know throw that shade on D2C e-commerce.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I do understand in some of the ways that it works why that shade is thrown on that industry.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're really with the correct providers and the correct you know, compliance or risk uh mitigate uh mitigation softwares, you're doing everything the right thing, right?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of our biggest clients, Drink Willie's.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: When we told them about this software, they embraced it completely.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: And if you try to go to Drink Willie's, you're not 21, you won't get in.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: You can't even see the website compared to some of the other age verification softwares.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it also gives them the data sets.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: So when I brought information like that to the to DC and showed people some of that intel, they were astonished.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, we had no idea something like this existed where you can't lie about you can't lie about your IP or your social security number.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: There's no fake ID in the social security world, but there is a fake ID when it comes, and this is not throwing any shade into the retail world because there's no shade, and some people take it very seriously, but it's a lot easier to have, and you know, not to criminalize myself.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I did grow up in South Florida.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: We are a little bit wilder at a at a younger age down here, but you know, I had a a fake ID and I was able to go at a you know below 20.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Wait a second, what?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: No way, no way, no way.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: We think that's how to be the first time.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I've never told the story, so I want to tell it because we don't have a fake ID.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: I had one in Philadelphia, and um this is 20 years ago 21 years ago, 22 years ago.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: I go to buy I go to buy the beer, I use my regular demo card, and it's a different name on the thing.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I had the card, it might have still been hot from the printer, and like the retail and like flying down the highway.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the lady grabs the card and she grabs the license and she looks at me and I just start pouring sweat.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like just pouring sweat.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: But for whatever reason, and I'm not gonna name the business, even though I do still support them every once in a while when I'm in Philadelphia, she gave it all back to me and just smiled at me and just pointed at the door for me to leave.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I was then able to play her in the bar.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: So listen, we've all we've all been there, and it's just you know, it's it's a reality.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very transparent, as I said earlier this call, and it's with all my storytelling and and and what all uh with everything that I say, but you know, I was able to buy some of those products, you know, at that age, and the argument is made that the three-tier system or retail, it does protect it at a very high level, and it does bring a lot of compliance and a lot of awesome things.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: But I will I would be very sad to see D2C go away just because I've seen so many brands that couldn't compete in retail because they didn't have the money, they didn't have the relationships, and they were able to get into retail and really big distributors because they were able to grow and scale online.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: But again, if that is to be allowed, it needs to be met with things like the age verification that I just stated and other aspects to ensure that this never gets into the hands of any miners or anybody that shouldn't be touching these products.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: And when that when that's showed to politicians that I know, they're very impressed.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: It takes a little bit more to explain it to them because they're not in the business world, they're in a completely different business lane that I would never want to be in, and I don't understand as well as they do.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: But it's good when you do show them back because it kind of wakes them up to being like, oh wow, there is a way you know to kind of make D to C, you know, you know, safe and compliant, you know, especially with bills like Rand Paul's, you know.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Know, kind of allowing states to opt in for the interstate commerce.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, these little things are things we're hopeful, you know, that really survive.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: And again, if they don't, then it's just diversifying and service servicing in the areas where people are still selling these products and ensuring compliance and that they're the they're with the correct you know banking partners that you know want to support them long term.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: But it's I I don't think anybody knows, is my opinion, at least that I talk to.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my opinion is let's wait, let's wait till September, then see.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's what that's perfect.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh yeah, this these uh this episode has been used by multiple brands, and clips have been requested of me and and uh quotes as well.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: So now the lawmakers are watching these stories and understanding the human side of things.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's another interesting part, which I take as a positive.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: So anybody listening, if a lawmaker is now moved past the data points and is moving to the real stories of real Americans and real entrepreneurs, that means we're making positive movements.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I started getting those requests, I felt like we were, I just want to publicly say it so people start understanding.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: I felt I felt very good in that sense that we are moving, we're moving in the right path.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I will start closing this part out.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say, Henry, thank you.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And real quick before this, because this is his first week on the job, and he's already done a podcast.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, Michael, hop on your camera real quick and just give a little wave to everybody.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: Call him asleep, you know, when he's already sleeping.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, there we go.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're muted, you're muted, you're muted.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm definitely still here, and I was uh biting my tongue to tell you my own fake ID story, so maybe we'll have to save that for another time.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, let's go we'll give it give it that one and then I'll close, I'll close out the episode.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, well, you know, to to your point about the debit card and ID that didn't match up.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, did you find it?
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I was very smart in high school, and I got a I had a fake ID and it was a California driver's license.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the name I chose for that fake ID was Calvin Barotis, which is Snoop Dogg's legal name.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I I believe uh I was from Long Beach, California on that ID as well, and needless to say, it didn't match any of my other documentation.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: I feel much better now.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm jealous.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm jealous of the freaking creativity, man.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: I just went with the the the same plain Henry Lee Mashburn, man.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, go ahead.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no, I was just saying I I believe I still have this artifact, uh, and I'm in my you know early 50s on that document now.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh pretty pretty funny.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's perfect.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well I know those days of running down New York City and uh grabbing somebody to make you a fake idea on the sidewalk or gone, but uh we can look at those fondly as well in the past.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you both for what you're doing, Michael.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations on the on the new job.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking forward to seeing you grow in this space, and I'm really excited.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: Also, a big testament to the fact that you're on this right now, and I mean that in the best way possible.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: It shows the type of business that you're running, Henry.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: It shows that you are transparent, it shows you have nothing to hide, and you're willing to put your employees and your new hires on this with you because you already know you hired the right person, so you know you can trust them to be on here.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm observant of that, and anybody that isn't observant of that, I want to reiterate verbally to everybody.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, Henry, thank you so much.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, man.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, Henry.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I want to also say for you, the courage in the cojones, as I do say everyone every time, whether it's male or female, is truly coming on a podcast without scripts, without an agenda, with zero prep takes courage in cojones.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for doing that.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it shows you know your shit, you live, you live it, and you walk it and you do it.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, I'll share uh to add to the authenticity of this conversation.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: I thought this was honestly the preparation for for the podcast, if I can be fully, fully transparent.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: So to add to what you just said, this is as authentic as it can get, but that's that's the things I enjoy, man.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: And Nate, and I uh you know, I love the style of your podcast.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen your name on LinkedIn, I've seen some interviews before.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I really appreciate you know what you do for the industry, and not a lot of people like you.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: Take the time to talk to us on the ancillary side or talk to other brands and kind of dive into other niches and really see what's going on and how it could be helpful to this industry.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, to anybody that's listening to this, to anybody in your network, um, is if there's any time you guys want to reach out to us directly, we always like to have conversations first, you know, ensure that you know we're a good personal fit for you guys.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: You guys feel good about what we do.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we're more than happy to answer any questions in the payments world, in the banking world, or any company that's really looking to scale online and then get into you know retail doors across the country.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you are the third time that that's happened.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I say it's every single time.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I take the compliment three times in a row now because everybody just flowed with it.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't ever know until the end when they all told me.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate it, man.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I'm gonna close out and remind everybody real quick uh where everybody can find you, just reiterate name of the business, socials, website, all that stuff.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's uh alternative horizons group.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: The web URL is ahgpay.com.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: You can find me under Henry Mashburn on LinkedIn.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: Usually, you know, now I'm a little bit more without success, a little bit more protective of my email or phone number to kind of keep things organized in my world.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: But if you have any questions or concerns, come to our website, enter contact information, or hit me up in LinkedIn, and we're more than happy to have a conversation to see how we can help.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect, guys.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, everybody, we talked about adult beverages in this aspect.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about payment processing, we talked about risk mitigation, we talked about everything going on in the hemp industry and all those.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: But the other underlying thing that we want to drive home with this episode is human connection.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: There was no, I do not know Henry, I do not know Michael.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've never shook hands with them, I've never shared a drink with them, I've never met him for coffee.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: We literally just met.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I want everybody to understand in this crazy, beautifully destructive world, you can connect with strangers.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: You are not alone.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta make a little bit of effort.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: When you're walking down the street, put your phone in your pocket, put your eyes forward, smile at a stranger, when you're at the gas station filling up that cup of coffee, say how you're doing to the person next to you filling up their cup, shut your mouth and actually care about what they say.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because even though your life might be full in the moment, you might have a partner to go home to, you might have kids to hug.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know what's going on in somebody's life.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: And right now it takes a couple seconds to just be nice, and that really can make a difference in their day, their week, their month, and God forbid in their entire year.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: But that's where we are with it in this world.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I really hope that people can take that.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not only that we talk about awesome beverages and we talk about what we love in business, but we really I want more people to start connecting and seeing in real time out what it is to meet a stranger.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you both for the courage and coming on today.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking forward to talking with you guys a lot more.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks, guys.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy the rest of your day, guys.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, take care.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, man.