Latest / EEShow (Everything's Energy Show) / Hear This Before You Try Psychedelics | Everything's Energy Ep-51

Transcript

Hear This Before You Try Psychedelics | Everything's Energy Ep-51 · EEShow (Everything's Energy Show)

• 0:00
  Roland: A lot of people, especially if they've kind of compartmentalized aspects of their personality, you can have an incredibly high level of intellect with a low level of emotional coherence. Yeah. So what psychedelics force you to do is you gotta feel stuff. Like, there's less thinking in a psychedelic other than what the hell am I experiencing or what's going on versus things, at least in my experience, come in that are more emotive or sensorial in the feels department. And I could see that by forcing you to face those things, it's like bolstering up a weak point Yeah.
• 0:31
  In your consciousness. Hey, man. Do you want
• 0:36
  Michael: some shrooms, man?
• 0:38
  Roland: Yeah, dude. I got
• 0:39
  Michael: some MDMA.
• 0:41
  Roland: Looking to trip, bro.
• 0:44
  Michael: So RFK Nice to know. The G himself, RFK, has brought into circulation and legality the use of that basically brought the FDA onto allowing the research of psilocybin, MDMA and Ibogaine primarily for mental health reasons, PTSD, depression, a host of other things we're gonna talk about. And then maybe we'll talk about our own trips, man.
• 1:13
  Roland: Little Wayne's World reference.
• 1:15
  Michael: Yeah. Know. But it's it's really fascinating because we could could end up with a MDMA by Pfizer and whatever the psilocybin compound by Moderna.
• 1:23
  Roland: Hopefully that's reality I didn't really put together yet. That's an interesting thought.
• 1:26
  Michael: It's funny to think that you could go to a pharmacy at some point and Pfizer's printing MDMA. I mean, the kids are gonna love that. EDC is gonna be lit.
• 1:35
  Roland: It's gonna be the biggest attendance ever. So what are your thoughts on this? Like what is your initial thought in response to this potential legality of these? Because I call them molecules, right? I wanna delineate something.
• 1:47
  There are drugs, hard drugs, cocaine, heroin, things of that nature. I've always looked at psychedelics as something that unfortunately gets lumped into the same category. But to me, I call them molecules to create my own delineation between the intention of them. And also there's not an addictive property like there are for other hard drugs. So I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on this.
• 2:11
  Michael: I think molecule is a great way of putting it because there's a lot of really great molecules that have a lot of really great benefits. Some of them happen to be psychoactive. There's a lot of you know, let's start with going back in time. The Native Americans would do rites of passage with peyote and different psychedelics. The the Amazonians, they had Ayahuasca as a rite of passage.
• 2:31
  If you go back really far into Christianity, the mushrooms were actually there and their hats were shaped like mushrooms. So maybe that was how I could be reaching here. Maybe this is how they saw burning bushes. And they wrote words of God is because they literally thought they were having a conversation with God. I've talked to so many psychonauts or molecule experts.
• 2:50
  Some with very very wizardly beards and
• 2:52
  Roland: Long beards and equally long and trippy. Yeah. But you make a great point. These things used to be integrated in life. Right?
• 3:00
  Of traditional cultures in many These things have been part of humanity and society for a while. And I've often thought about what is the purpose of these things being in existence in nature? And I remember I was having a conversation with someone about this years ago. I said, well, what if this is just the plant's way of communicating with us through consciousness? When you're experiencing a psychedelic that has been extracted from something that grows in nature, what's not to say that you're interfacing with a different level of reality and bring dimensional beings from somewhere else.
• 3:32
  But it shows you more of what's actually here that we can't see because people forget that we exist in a very narrow bandwidth of sense perception in the electromagnetic spectrum. You can hear from 20 Hertz to 20,000 Hertz. You can see the visible color spectrum, but-
• 3:49
  Michael: Which are actually very limited.
• 3:51
  Roland: We're dimensionally limited beings. So these psychedelic experiences, maybe the traditional cultures had an idea that it opens someone up when they're ready to understand that there's much more to what they can perceive. And I've often thought this is kind of like a bridge between psychic phenomenon, experiencing the energy of things, other entities, dimensional realities, but it's been removed from our society.
• 4:15
  Michael: Well, it makes people awake. And powerful potentially. Mean, matrix is trying to get people to stay in this box. You take psychedelics, where'd the box go? Quite And
• 4:27
  Roland: to the intention of what this initiative is trying to do is it's trying to help heal people who are fractured or broken. And I say broken like nothing's ever broken forever. But when people go through these various traumas in life, we collect stories of our experiences. And I think a lot of people get stuck in the story so much so that they've actually hardwired the story into their perception of reality, into their personality to some degree. So it's like the person who tells you that this is the trauma that defined my life and therefore I am an extension of that trauma.
• 5:01
  I think this is a wonderful way. And I want to get into this a little bit later to help people who are stuck providing it's done in a way that's well constructed.
• 5:10
  Michael: Well, something came into mind while you were talking. So there's this gal I knew in my twenties, and she said something that always made a lot of sense to me. She said, I would take mushrooms and it would be like opening up the funnel. Like you've got this mental clog, psychological clog and everything just kind of sets. And the funnel opens when you take these psychedelics and just kind of lets everything go.
• 5:30
  Mhmm. I was like, that's a really good way of describing because when you do take psychedelics, edelics, you get an internal introspective, like kind of internal conversation you it's it's it's literally dissociative mushrooms. So you kind of remove yourself, it's almost like having an out of body experience. And then you're looking down into yourself and seeing what's going on in your psychology and your physiology. There's a lot of deep shadow work that can be done where you're seeing And these
• 5:56
  Roland: shadows and shining light on it's interesting because there is somewhat of a physiologic explanation for what's happening in the brain at that time. There's this thing called the default mode network, a DFN. Have you heard of this before? Nope. So the default mode network is this area in the brain that has a, we'll call it a rigid conception of the meta self.
• 6:16
  The meta self is the illusion of who you believe that you are, right? We can call it the ego, if you look
• 6:21
  Michael: at it
• 6:21
  Roland: in classic psychology. And when people have things that are psychologically and emotionally or physically harmful to them, the reason we have an ego is to keep ourselves safe in this life.
• 6:31
  Michael: Makes sense.
• 6:32
  Roland: And if you become traumatized enough, the ego has this always, exactly, it's always on guard and it will throw itself into anticipatory aspects of your reality. So you'll always throw your past into the future and continue to manifest similar outcomes because you're always on guard for it. Seemingly what you're just describing and lines up really nicely with what they say psychedelics do. It gives you a perspective of yourself or something in your life outside of the dominance of the default mode network. So you're not looking through a lens of symbolism that has your protection at the core of trying to keep you safe.
• 7:09
  You can go, Oh, this is how I relate to that thing that happened to me. And I'm just paraphrasing like a hypothetical response of how you experience it. This is how I relate to that thing that happened to me. Have Do to? Yes or no.
• 7:22
  Do I benefit from doing this ongoingly? Am I limiting myself? Is there another workaround? So it's almost like it takes the construction of the default mode networks rigidity of reality, and the shadow work as we call it is actually reconfiguring the neural network and connections in an area of the brain. So you circumvent the limitations of what you might not be able to get past with talk therapy, or with EMDR or body Well, interesting part
• 7:50
  Michael: there is they're actually utilizing talk therapy, psychologists, different things like this to help walk people through. Cause you're creating this space and, you know, you have your, your rave mothers and whatnot. Yeah. Or shamans. Yeah.
• 8:02
  Who will sit there and communicate with people while they're on psychedelics. There's a lot of shamanistic experiences even on MDMA. I've done this in mushrooms, ayahuasca, these things where someone is sitting with you holding space and trying to guide you in your introspective in this place, this new dimension, this new experience that you're going through. If
• 8:19
  Roland: someone has this thing that there's been really challenging in their life, if they talk about it and it elicits an emotional response, they're only able to go as deep as they are able to maintain their coherence without freaking out. What a lot of these therapies do when you're doing talk therapy in conjunction with a psychedelic is it might provide you the opportunity to talk about it without the emotional response. You can actually get deeper into
• 8:44
  Michael: the trauma. I don't want to say that because it might perceive me a certain way or it's blunted. Blunted. Trauma because it hurts. So they're bringing things out of the depths that are protected and they've isolated so that it can be released.
• 8:58
  Roland: And you also can potentially process it somatically or in a, and I'll talk from personal experience, in a very concentrated, intense psycho emotional somatic experience, which might not be fun, but it's almost like you're literally unearthing the thing and releasing it back into the energy of the universe. So you're emptying that funnel as you described in the beginning.
• 9:23
  Michael: Yeah, well, I mean, let's get back kind of to the more medical side of stuff. So we can talk about neuroplasticity is one of the I had a GPT some of the benefits that they're looking at helping provide people who are using these psychedelics. Neuroplasticity, they're looking at depression, PTSD, anxiety, addiction, cognitive flexibility. I actually like to talk about addiction though, while it doesn't fall into MDMA or psilocybin, I imagine it could. Ibogaine is one I've never experienced Ibogaine.
• 9:53
  I've heard a few stories. Do you know much about Ibogaine?
• 9:55
  Roland: Only a little bit. I've never experienced it, but I've been told that it's almost like for those who are addicted, it's the last bastion of hope if nothing else has worked. And I heard someone describe it one time as being chastised by your grandfather for hours upon hours until like you have that deep shame of this deep elder going, what are you doing with your life? And for some people it just shocks them out of the addiction.
• 10:19
  Michael: Yeah, so I actually I had a friend who's going through some addiction stuff. And I reached out to a couple of my DJ friends who suffered massive addiction, primarily cocaine and alcohol. And I was like, well, what did you guys do? What helped? Ayahuasca was the first thing they brought up.
• 10:34
  And then it was DMT, I think. But like, direct, they went to Mexico and got some
• 10:41
  Roland: So the five MEO or the NNDMT? They're different kinds. There's the blue foe from the toad.
• 10:47
  Michael: Frog shit.
• 10:47
  Roland: The five MEO, much more intense. Okay. Yeah, that's the lick in the toad.
• 10:52
  Michael: But they said those two things are part of what really helped them get off of the alcohol and cocaine addiction, turn their life around, which I found really fascinating. I've actually never done either of these. So I don't have a whole lot of experience. I've heard a lot of stories about Ayahuasca. The stories from Ayahuasca has made me not really want to do Ayahuasca because it's a lot of vomiting and shitting themselves.
• 11:10
  I was like, that doesn't sound like a lot of fun, but I guess it's not really supposed to be.
• 11:14
  Roland: That's the lore of the purge, right? So the notion of the vomiting and the shitting, there's a physiologic reason for that. So traditional Ayahuasca, Ayahuasca isn't the substance itself. The DMT, the dimethyltryptamine is the actual psychoactive component. And there's another ingredient that you're basically consuming to inhibit your liver because the DMT needs to reach the psychoactive areas of the brain to elicit the response.
• 11:43
  So the vomiting and the purging is your body being forcibly shut down in terms of liver processing. So your body gets everything out because the enzymes in your liver, the monoamine oxidase enzymes have to be inhibited for the DMT to actually reach your brain so you can have the experience.
• 12:00
  Michael: So
• 12:00
  Roland: it cannot work if you have substances in your digestive system.
• 12:05
  Michael: Guess what they say a lot of times when doing these things fast.
• 12:08
  Roland: You go on the diet, it's the detox diet. So it's not quite as aggressive. And some people will say, well, it's just part of the physiologic process. Others will say it is an integral part of the experience. I've never done it that way.
• 12:21
  I was taught a way where you can have an Ayahuasca experience without the vomiting and the diarrhea.
• 12:25
  Michael: I've heard of people using it more recreationally and they have these like water bottles and stuff.
• 12:30
  Roland: You can do it in a variety of different ways and still have the psychedelic experience. I imagine
• 12:34
  Michael: a smaller amount versus going full tilt or something.
• 12:37
  Roland: It depends on what you wanna do, right? Because there's a way where you can inhibit the liver and dose DMT crystals in a way that mimics what an Ayahuasca journey would be. So it's still hours long. It's still very intense. I've done quite a few of these in my life and it's been the most profound thing I've ever done.
• 12:52
  But to your point, I never give the deep inner details of what I've experienced to someone who's interested in trying this because you never want to project something on their reality.
• 13:02
  Michael: You don't want to set them up for because then you have a pre cognitive kind of idea of how it's going to be and you might manifest that idea.
• 13:09
  Roland: And I believe it will influence something that someone is only trying to be helpful with that is not necessarily in your greatest benefit. But to the point with addiction, it's been a massive catalyst for most people who talk about their stories on Netflix documentaries or whatever, this seems to be one of the greatest things that just breaks the pattern of addiction in people. And I think it really aggressively rewires the neural connections in the brain that are stuck in the process of addiction. Because to me addiction is unresolved trauma.
• 13:43
  Michael: Well, mean, they're talking about PTSD here a lot. So mushrooms and MDMA specifically on PTSD, most people are doing substance abuse addiction because they have trauma. They're trying to escape ism. So it makes sense that would tie in here. I just wanted to take it that step further with the more extreme ones where I actually have heard of people I've never heard of anyone taking MDMA and getting rid of addiction.
• 14:06
  On the contrary, it might actually, know, they're in the right clinical setting perhaps.
• 14:11
  Roland: MDMA is usually more for very intensive talk therapy. Wouldn't say it's an addiction thing. What MDMA does for people who are especially drawn in is it really has a massive serotonin dump in the body. So it actually opens someone up because serotonin is a molecule of openness. You want to be tactile and it allows you to-
• 14:31
  Michael: I love a lamp.
• 14:31
  Roland: Exactly, strokes very well. Movie reference always comes in, but it allows those people who have severe trauma, be it sexual trauma, or even someone who used to be an ex special forces member, it gets them out of being so afraid of being vulnerable that they can talk through things and release them, but also be the witness of hearing themselves and feeling themselves talk about the thing that's defining where they're stuck. Yeah. But I wouldn't say MDMA therapy would be my choice for substance abuse.
• 15:05
  Michael: No, but neuroplasticity is an interesting thing too because when you're expanding your perception of how things are, because when you're on psychedelics, it's walking through a veil into a whole nother world. I don't know if I'm willing to call it a dimension or a portal or something. I mean, lot of words get thrown out there. How people explain it, but you're, you know, you're you have your perceived reality. And I've told the story when I was 16.
• 15:31
  It was the most profound thing. I took some mushrooms, move lights in the sky, and woke up the next day. I'm like, I know nothing. Because my perception of what I thought reality is got shot so wide open because I had now experienced something so different from everything I thought was normal or I thought I knew and the know it all kid. I was like, I don't know shit.
• 15:50
  I don't know what just happened. But it's like it's like going through the Psychedelic University in an evening and you're like, okay, there's a lot more things out there that I clearly don't understand because that was different. So neuroplasticity is really fascinating. I know there's a lot of studies on mushrooms specifically on that, but just broadening your perspective of how you could feel, say the tactile, I wanna love everything and dance my ass off the MDMA might provide. But the psilocybin studies are really interesting.
• 16:18
  They're they're looking at people with Alzheimer's, different things, seeing the brain light up in ways it didn't light up before. So it's fascinating that, you know, we're now circling back to plant medicine as a way of actually possibly getting into treating long term brain issues.
• 16:33
  Roland: Well, I've even heard that people who are terminally ill using microdose psilocybin or microdose LSD actually softens their fear of death. So there's definitely a utility to these things. And back to the point of neuroplasticity, generally neuroplasticity is perceived as a positive thing. And I think by and large it is. Is all the neuroplasticity that's developed from psychedelics uniformly positive to someone coming back to their waking reality in the third dimension?
• 17:01
  I think that there's a potential catch 22 there that
• 17:05
  Michael: we can talk about. Well, that's further in my list. Yeah,
• 17:08
  Roland: then we'll go down there because I agree with you that the average person, especially nowadays doesn't simulate the brain nearly enough. You see people who do Sudoku puzzles or various things.
• 17:17
  Michael: Well, that's neuroplasticity for those who aren't really aware, it's your ability to take on new educational experience.
• 17:24
  Roland: Adaptability of the brain.
• 17:25
  Michael: Adaptability of the brain is a great way of saying it. I wanted to kind of bring it a little more rudimentary. It's like when when you're doom scrolling all the time and your brain just kind of shuts off, have low neuroplasticity. Because you're not it's working out your neuro plasticity. You're flexing, you're stretching, but for your brain.
• 17:42
  Roland: Yes. So I told you this on the drive over here, started juggling because it's a capability that my brain has never mastered. I like those things.
• 17:49
  Michael: Yeah, you have to challenge your brain. I guess psychedelics could help you challenge your brain because you're literally trying to figure out what's going on. Exactly. Mental gymnastics. So that ties into the increased cognitive function that's on the list.
• 18:01
  Greater creativity. Obviously, artists love drugs.
• 18:04
  Roland: So improve Molecules, Michael. Molecules.
• 18:08
  Michael: Improve problem solving. I mean, it's if you're stuck in a box, at least take science and quantum physics. If you're stuck in this box and you don't perceive another possible reality, you might overlook a creative solution. So I could see how psychedelics would give you a whole new horizon of possibilities outside that box. Less rigid thinking, obviously.
• 18:30
  Enhanced emotional resilience. That's an interesting one. Emotional resilience. I guess you'd be more able to just let shit go.
• 18:38
  Roland: You might also be able to actually more positively relate with emotions because a lot of people, especially if they've kind of compartmentalized aspects of the personality, you can have an incredibly high level of intellect with a low level of emotional coherence because
• 18:54
  Michael: IQ is EQ for sure.
• 18:55
  Roland: So what psychedelics force you to do is you've got to feel stuff. Like there's less thinking in a psychedelic other than what the hell am I experiencing or what's going on versus things, at least in my experience, come in that are more emotive or sensorial in the feels department. And I could see that by forcing you to face those things, it's like bolstering up a weak point in your consciousness.
• 19:19
  Michael: Absolutely. Well, let's go down the list a little more. Okay. So psilocybin specifically, there's a recent study out of Baylor College of Medicine from a Doctor. Louise Heckler.
• 19:30
  Roland: Okay.
• 19:30
  Michael: Oh, sorry. Heckler, not Heckler. Key findings were the active metabolite and psilocybin preserved telmer length in aged human cells.
• 19:42
  Roland: Longevity drug molecule.
• 19:46
  Michael: Reduced oxidative stress, which is a major driving in aging. Increased SIRT1, a longevity associated protein. Human skin and lung cells showed a 29 to 57% longer cellular lifespan depending on dose. Aged mice receiving psilocybin had significantly better survival and appeared biologically younger. So did we just tap into the trippiest longevity medicine ever?
• 20:17
  Roland: Interesting.
• 20:18
  Michael: Researchers observed that treated cells maintain telomere closer to youthful levels rather than experience the shortening normal associated with aging for those telomeres. They shorten as you age, if they're longer, you can create a stasis where you stop biologically aging. If you can increase the length of your telomeres as you're aging, you can reverse aging, which is
• 20:38
  Roland: a Benjamin Button effect.
• 20:40
  Michael: Telomeres are the big thing in science right now. So it's fascinating. I personally, me, psychedelic mushrooms, I wasn't a huge fan of them because when I would take them, it was different every time because there's like a 100 different strains of psychedelic mushrooms. The dosage is always really difficult because one small stem could launch you into outer space and other small stem could do absolutely nothing. So I've only done psilocybin a few times after my 16 year old time, which is probably the most profound one.
• 21:10
  But I found the dosing really odd, but I guess if we're going into micro dosing, we're really not trying to get high. We're just trying to get that longevity effect then.
• 21:18
  Roland: Yeah. And I think this needs to be studied way more conclusively before anyone takes away from the fact that we're saying try psilocybin, it's a life extender. We're not saying, we're saying that there's an interesting potential here. And to me, it makes me examine the connection between physiology and psychology and beyond that consciousness, because longevity should be from things inside the body working more effectively, but this is something that typically influences the neurology. So I'm curious in saying, well, what is it about something that psychoactive that's changing the way that cells are behaving in terms of improving their health?
• 21:55
  That's a very, very
• 21:55
  Michael: interesting Mind over matter is the actual chemical interaction with us on like that, because the brain is powerful in the way that it conveys everything in your body.
• 22:05
  Roland: Just not show you that everything's interconnected? Like you can't focus on physical longevity and health if you're neglecting things that are not simply physical. Like there's an old saying from Clint Eastwood, they said, how do you not age? It's like, just don't let the old man in. It's a perception, right?
• 22:20
  It's a belief set. So maybe there is something to that effect to where the combination of increased neuroplasticity, the greater adaptability of the brain to find more energetically efficient ways to run the neurology, because the brain is one of the largest energy users in the body. So maybe there's an efficiency boost in how the brain and the nervous system are operating that allows for greater energy to be distributed among the organs and tissues and the cells of the body so they act younger.
• 22:46
  Michael: I mean, I don't think we'll really ever know exactly how it works.
• 22:50
  Roland: That just literally came off the noodle right now.
• 22:51
  Michael: Yeah, no, no, because it is fascinating because it's not widely studied. It's been widely used for a long time, but it's been kind of shelved as hippie drug addict kind of stuff. And now it's coming into the forefront, which is really fascinating times. I think I'm gonna skip over a lot of this MDMA stuff. I mean, says this part's interesting.
• 23:09
  Increased release of serotonin, oxytocin, dopamine, neuro epinephrine. These are all your feel good stuff.
• 23:15
  Roland: They're all neurotransmitters.
• 23:17
  Michael: Yeah.
• 23:17
  Roland: Which I think there's a potential double edged sword because over utilizing these things has to cause some sort of stress and fatigue. Like think about people who get
• 23:26
  Michael: into the healthier
• 23:26
  Roland: drugs, MDMA stuff.
• 23:28
  Michael: Plus the amphetamine chain is gonna speed you up and make your teeth grind, which is my personal experience. I've never been a fan of taking a large dose of any drug. I would always take quarters and halves. And the only time I was taking the whole thing. For those out there, if you're looking for a good idea, microdose.
• 23:50
  Micro is
• 23:50
  Roland: always better than macro unless that's the intention.
• 23:53
  Michael: And then we're back on the, you know, this neuro trans neuroplasticity, all that good stuff. Where was the part I wanted to go next? Oh, so I wanted to, you know, so not every as you were saying, not everyone should take these?
• 24:08
  Roland: No, not at all. I think there's this narrative that everyone should because it's becoming popular in pop culture. If you have a strong fear response to the thought of taking a psychedelic or anything, maybe there's some inner intuition saying either not for you or not yet. I don't think it's a widely used beneficial thing for everyone, but people who are called to it, there's probably something there that's worth investigating if you want to just, there's a responsibility that comes with this stuff.
• 24:38
  Michael: Yeah, no, there's I've seen people freak out on drugs. It's normally the designer drugs, the synthetic spin offs, a very common DJing, you name it, I've seen it. You should always take less, not more. You can't take less after you've taken a bunch would be why why to test your drugs, especially nowadays when I was a DJ, fentanyl wasn't a thing. And so it's now it's scary because I've seen people go to the hospital and I've seen people die from taking drugs they thought thought were something and that weren't.
• 25:09
  I've seen people go into complete psychosis on the dance floor. One time this guy just comes in the dance floor yelling and screaming and I could tell her something was wrong. I brought the music down and the whole part was like what's going on? I'm like guys this is like someone please help this guy.
• 25:20
  Roland: Well there's also the concept of setting. That's one of the old adages of psychedelics. For example, you take something, the electromagnetic field of your body is going to be changed in some capacity and influenced by the merging of the psychedelic with your own consciousness. So potentially your empathy can go up. Potentially things that are in your environment can have a greater impact on you in an unconscious way, which is why you shouldn't take mushrooms and go to the mall, for example.
• 25:48
  Like it's just a bad mix of things. Did that one-
• 25:50
  Michael: Well that's all the list actually is like setting. Setting a mindset. You should set a intention when you're doing psychedelics because otherwise you're doing the escapism. Escapism is not gonna be therapeutic. It's not gonna be healthy.
• 26:06
  You're just trying to shut out your feelings.
• 26:07
  Roland: You're repurposing distraction.
• 26:09
  Michael: Yeah. So you need a set an intention. So whether that's to learn something about yourself, others, the universe, the question of the meaning of life, it's good to set an intention. Like I want to figure out something.
• 26:21
  Roland: Of these things are meant to be experienced internally. Like you do this not because you want to have a social experience for the most part, unless you're going to a music festival, things that we talked about. But if someone is using these things in the context of how they're being put forth potentially in the future, this is an internal introspective experience to help you work through something. It should not be taken lightly. It should not be something that is used as a catalyst to improve the experience you have in a party.
• 26:51
  It's you going into yourself because the old saying is all answers of what you seek in the universe are inside
• 26:56
  Michael: of you.
• 26:57
  Roland: You're trying to go get access to something that maybe you've severed from your own internal communication, talking to your body, talking to your unconscious mind,
• 27:05
  Michael: Your inner child.
• 27:06
  Roland: Whatever it is that you're intending to do, this is kind of the hero's journey internally and solo to the point where you're going in and maybe you have either other people that are sharing their own internal experience with you, you go down to Peru or wherever, and you're in a place where you're doing an Ayahuasca experience with others, or you have someone sitting and holding space for you while you are going to work on your stuff. And I think that's so important because without taking it so seriously, you're likely not gonna accomplish the depth of the work that you seek or you likely don't resolve it all in one session. You don't set the intention of how the reality unfolds for you in the weeks and months after a psychedelic experience, because I can tell you from my own experience, taking many other people on their own, when you do something like this, your reality changes. How you see yourself, how you see everyone else in your reality, how you see reality as a whole is going to have a slightly different bias that you can't unsee or unknown. In order to work with that and not create too much drama or stress for yourself in the aftermath, like this is a really important phase of your life that has to be very critical in how, how do I want to say this?
• 28:18
  In how seriously you're taking the inner work because it's not done when the experience is done. It's done when you've actually realized that you've come out on the other end of the thing you're trying to fix yourself. Does that make sense?
• 28:29
  Michael: Well, it's not meant to be a crutch either. It's meant to
• 28:33
  Roland: be a
• 28:35
  Michael: flick in the right direction.
• 28:36
  Roland: It's a catalyst. That's the way I look at it.
• 28:38
  Michael: Yeah, that's a good word for it. But let's get back to people who probably shouldn't be taking psychedelics.
• 28:43
  Roland: Okay.
• 28:44
  Michael: Schizophrenia. They've kind
• 28:46
  Roland: of had a natural psychedelic experience Yeah. All the
• 28:50
  Michael: Psychotic disorders, probably not the right headspace if you're psychotic. And that's the thing too, that mindset is you have to be in a good mindset. If you're in a bad mindset, you shouldn't take psychedelics because it's just gonna exasperate the problem. You gotta do some self work, self healing, then go, all right, now's the time for psychedelics.
• 29:05
  Roland: You need to be quite stable on yourself before you embark upon this journey. Yes.
• 29:09
  Michael: Bipolar disorder, which some drugs seem to increase that with people. So uncontrolled cardiovascular disease. I mean, you are pushing your body when you're taking some of these psychedelics.
• 29:21
  Roland: A lot of the serotonin receptors are in the heart. So it does place increased cardiac stress on your physiology increases blood pressure temporarily. So there is a physical stress to the body.
• 29:31
  Michael: Severe untreated anxiety disorders. You kind of brought that up. If you're extremely anxious person.
• 29:40
  Roland: Can remember an experience of someone who wanted to do this and they were so stressed out beforehand. And guess what happened to their experience? I had to like wrestle them for an hour and they kicked a hole in the wall.
• 29:52
  Michael: Sounds terrible. Sounds like a bad trip.
• 29:54
  Roland: They were not listening to themselves. They forced themselves into this when there were so many signs of
• 29:59
  Michael: You know what, daddy? I would have ride the ride too.
• 30:03
  Roland: Again, and that's
• 30:03
  Michael: You're not tall enough.
• 30:04
  Roland: That's the societal pressures of Oh, this is something that everyone's doing. I should therefore do it too.
• 30:09
  Michael: Yeah, I mean, has been commercialized. Everyone does want to try it these days.
• 30:14
  Roland: And to that list, would say even if someone has in their family predisposition to psychiatric disorders, maybe you don't have it but a parent, a grandparent, a sibling, some people's neurology might be wired to the way that they're far more sensitive to not having the ability to compartmentalize something and not have it drive you to a place of instability.
• 30:36
  Michael: That's valid. Now mixing things with psychedelics is a big no no. So SSRIs, SNRIs, MAOIs, tricyclic antidepressants, stimulants, certain psychiatric medications. A lot of the psychiatric meds, just even take alcohol with them and it's a completely different story. So if you're gonna do psychedelics, obviously you should really consult your list of bottles in your cabinet and just Google whether this is even for you remotely.
• 31:13
  Roland: If someone is on a psychiatric medication, there's no way shape or form they should even touch anything.
• 31:17
  Michael: Well, there's like party drinks out there too that have like MAOIs in them. And someone freaked out at a party I threw because someone there was vending it. And I didn't know about this, but they're like, you cannot sell that at a party where people are taking psychedelics. People can have a huge problem. And I end up Googling like, woah, I had no idea this random stuff being vended could have literally caused psychosis.
• 31:38
  So things you should, you know, you should obviously optimize your sleep. We'll go into some of the what you should do to be healthy while experiencing psychedelics, whether it's through clinical or shamanistic methods. By the way, EES doesn't condone the use of drugs and EEShow doesn't. We're just having a conversation. We're not doctors.
• 31:59
  Just said that people might be entertained by this for entertainment purposes. Optimize Sleep, they said stimulants as well. Like you caffeine is gonna dehydrate you. So you're already on a stimulant. Avoid alcohol and other drugs.
• 32:14
  Alcohol, again, dehydrating. It's extremely common for people to drink a lot of alcohol at parties and do this. That's really where your unhealthy effects in your hangovers are gonna come from. Obviously, mixing drugs. I mean, it's very common for people to go to parties and do one thing, then the other thing, and then the other thing, you're going to stress your system out.
• 32:33
  Roland: People make psychedelics nowadays. I've been told people who will have some MDMA, then they'll take a little bit of LSD and they'll go in a float tank, for example. I remember someone said this to me, literally they went in a float tank, they did MDMA LSD and maybe even oxytocin or something. I'm like, you guys gotta be careful. Like you don't know what the outcome is for the individual.
• 32:53
  Like let's say 20 people do this. There might be three people who have a very negative experience because that individual or those three people couldn't tolerate the mix of how much stress that was on the psychology or the neurology or the cardiovascular system.
• 33:06
  Michael: Yeah, well, people love ketamine these days and mixing ketamine, with something like MDMA or LSD or psilocybin, They'll be like, oh, I've done ketamine. It's fine. But when you're mixing the two, unless you're very versed in this and tried your little bits, like you you go do the giant line of ketamine while you're high as kite on MDMA, you're probably gonna lay down on the ground. And the EMTs might show up to get you slap you out of that deep K hole you couldn't do.
• 33:33
  Roland: But that also gets outside of the original intent of why we're talking about this. Very few people are going to suggest mixing these things for the experience of you just going out into reality and doing things.
• 33:43
  Michael: I just wanted to bring it up because it's a big issue mixing drugs.
• 33:46
  Roland: I agree. It's just it's important to mention.
• 33:48
  Michael: Yeah. Have a sober sitter. So in the shamanic experience, normally the shaman that normally a shaman will lead a group of people with like through Ayahuasca. A shaman is not high.
• 33:57
  Roland: Sometimes they take a list. It depends on what it is. They dip in a little bit. So if it's a Shaman who helps you navigate, they're going to the realm with you so they can be of service to you both as a guide,
• 34:08
  Michael: but they're not taking a full dose,
• 34:09
  Roland: But they're not going deeply in. Correct.
• 34:11
  Michael: They're going all the way There's a lot of different things you can take pre, obviously sleep hydration. Pre it's listing magnesium glycerate, omega threes, or maybe omega complex electrolytes. Obviously you're gonna be sweating a lot typically. You're ingesting relatively what could be called a poison. So you wanna make sure you have your fluids and your electrolytes It's
• 34:34
  Roland: gonna imbalance your minerals potentially, upregulate metabolism. A lot of people generate a lot of heat. The thermogenesis of the body gets upregulated. So it also burns a lot of energy. Blood sugar can drop.
• 34:44
  So you wanna make sure that you're
• 34:45
  Michael: You gotta eat something.
• 34:46
  Roland: Physically preparing yourself beforehand. Make
• 34:48
  Michael: sure everything's healthy, rested. Afterwards it's stating magnesium, omega-3s again, N acetylene, NAC, curcumin. These are anti oxidant anti inflammatory anti inflammatory D3 and K2, obviously getting sun is really important.
• 35:08
  Roland: Can I add something? So when you take some of these things, it is a, as you said, a dissociative experience. Nothing's more important than fully coming back into your body. Most people don't live in their body and everyone's gonna say, of course I live in my body. It's like most people are here or they're somewhere else in their reality all the time.
• 35:28
  And they're going through the day as the clock ticks. This is even more disassociating for your consciousness because if you're perceiving things beyond your current three d reality, you might wanna be occupied by perpetually thinking about that or going there. So if you have had a psychedelic experience grounding, getting back in connection with the earth, moving your body, gentle exercise, like fully occupying your physical self with your energy helps ground you to minimize the after effects of having the integration not go well. People talk about integration, right? After an experience, you should take a day or two to really properly integrate, having to talk about everything that happened, recollecting it, whatever messages or downloads were given to you, realizing the import of those things and deciding upon how you may want to change things in your life, but you got to return here.
• 36:21
  Like this thing needs to be fully occupied because your energy not being in your body is a catalyst to illness. Or as your mom says, something else will jump in if you're not in there.
• 36:30
  Michael: Yeah. And really a term for a lot of the psychedelics or drugs inject molecules is stealing happiness from tomorrow in a lot of ways, because you're dumping all of your body's chemicals all at once.
• 36:43
  Roland: Yep.
• 36:43
  Michael: And you need to replenish that. Using an EE system will do a shameless plug. Get the toxins out because you are ingesting something that is creating toxicity in the body, sauna, salt bath, all those good things. Get your minerals in check.
• 36:57
  Roland: Being in the system just lets you just be, right? Because the body needs to settle. It may take a day or two for your mind and your body to fully settle. So prioritizing being present, being calm, being relaxed so your nervous system can balance back out, I think is very much overlooked because people are like, all right, I did it next thing.
• 37:15
  Michael: Well, and that brings me to another point in the rave community. You go to these three day festivals and Burning Man, one of the best things was this is a marathon, not a sprint because people get there and just go so hard and then they're just wrecked. But especially when you're in your twenties, people I've seen people take ten pills in a weekend of ecstasy. And and I'm just like, what is wrong with you? And when you've you've dumped all your chemicals, you gotta take more drugs to get a similar effect, but you won't because you don't have the chemicals to dump.
• 37:43
  The drug you are taking is stimulating your own internal pro your happy chemicals, all these things to dump all at once. When you don't have any more of them, you're just taking a bunch of junk.
• 37:54
  Roland: Your production is fried and your receptors are fried.
• 37:56
  Michael: So people are like, this drug's not working. It's like, bro, you've been partying for three days. You're just taking too many drugs or molecules.
• 38:05
  Roland: Ten pills. I can't even fathom that.
• 38:06
  Michael: I've heard stories from people and I'm just like, are you okay? Why would you do that?
• 38:12
  Roland: I guess they're still alive.
• 38:13
  Michael: Yeah. I mean, it's it's normally younger people. So I mean, if if younger ravers are listening to this, you have a long life to live. There's a lot of things out there that can go wrong. Most of the things you see at a party too are are dehydration.
• 38:26
  Make sure your friends are staying hydrated. Less is more in most cases. Switch it up if you're going to a three day festival or a week long festival. You can drink a little one day, maybe take a little something in a different day, maybe take a little something else a different day or have a sober day. Go be the trip sitter.
• 38:44
  Roland: Well, all of this stuff that you've researched, for example, all of this information is out there. Anyone who's interested, I implore you to learn about this stuff, to understand at the very least conceptually what you may be getting into, the effects on the body and also the responsibility of knowing, am I really ready for this? Or am I doing this because I saw it on a podcast, for example, or someone else I know had an experience and it was the best thing ever and they were ranting and raving. Don't take someone else's experience and then adopt it as the expectation of what you're gonna have happen.
• 39:15
  Michael: No, that's true. And then I think we'll close on just a safety note. In in my time, there wasn't fentanyl and there were less designer drugs. And by by designer drugs, I mean synthetic spin offs. So they make a Chinese synthetic MDMA LSD.
• 39:27
  Roland: One P LSD, all these like gray
• 39:29
  Michael: zone, And you can buy they're extremely dangerous.
• 39:32
  Roland: And They're not regulated in
• 39:34
  Michael: any way. Obviously, none of them are regulated. So if you are going to get over the counter medicines from your street pharmacist, I would highly recommend testing. There's a lot DanceSafe sells test kits, shows everything that's in there. They have fentanyl strips now if you're doing sniffy stuff.
• 39:51
  A lot of people have been hospitalized and die in in my network of friends or friends of friends and hear the stories and all it's cheap. So stay safe out there. And if you if you like what we talked about, leave a comment. Like, comment, subscribe, all that good shit. Peace out.
• 40:08
  Roland: See you, man.
• 40:09
  Michael: Have a good trip.