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Rugby Direct - Exclusive interview with Scott Robertson and Mark Robinson · Rugby Direct

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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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Speaker 1: Inside the Game from every angle.
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Speaker 2: It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.
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Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Habit Heath, tackling all
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Speaker 3: your ax and pains from sports and work. A special
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Speaker 3: bonus edition of Rugby Direct with two great guests that
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Speaker 3: we were lucky enough to have for an extended interview. Myself,
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Speaker 3: Elliott Smith and Liam Napier sat down with New Zealand
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Speaker 3: Rugby Chief Executive Mark Robinson and All Blacks head coach
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Speaker 3: Scott Robertson to discuss plenty of issues across the game
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Speaker 3: super rugby, the eligibility to make for the All Blacks,
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Speaker 3: looking back at twenty twenty four, the challenges New Zealand
0:56
Speaker 3: Rugby faces, and to look ahead to twenty twenty five.
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Speaker 3: Plenty of issues to discuss right across rugby. It was
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Speaker 3: great to have Mark Robinson and Scott Robertson join us
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Speaker 3: on the podcast. I began by asking about their relationship
1:10
Speaker 3: which has gone all the way back to the nineteen
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Speaker 3: nineties and the early two thousands, when they played together
1:16
Speaker 3: at the Crusaders to now as All Blacks head coach
1:19
Speaker 3: and New Zealand Rugby chief executive.
1:22
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, we met probably like you say it in
1:24
Speaker 4: the late nineties. Raised was already in christ Church from memory,
1:28
Speaker 4: and I'd come home from England. I was studying over
1:30
Speaker 4: there to Cannaby and the Crusaders, so we sort of
1:33
Speaker 4: started knocking around back then. And my vivid memories of
1:37
Speaker 4: Razor back then was obviously aside from a great player,
1:41
Speaker 4: even back then, you know, he's a carrying a coaching
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Speaker 4: a playbook around, you know, he was highly engaged in
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Speaker 4: tactics and the game itself and that sort of thing.
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Speaker 4: So it was no great surprise I guess as time
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Speaker 4: has eventuated that he's ended up where he has. Even
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Speaker 4: then he had a real key in the game and
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Speaker 4: the technical tactical side me less, So you know, I
2:01
Speaker 4: was sort of more engaged at that time around things
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Speaker 4: that were happening around our environment and wider issues around
2:06
Speaker 4: rugby and that sort of thing. But we said some
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Speaker 4: great memories, you know, obviously fortunately playing a really successful
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Speaker 4: era with great coaches and teammates and that sort of thing,
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Speaker 4: and they probably for a few years where Rose was
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Speaker 4: off doing his thing and I was and it wasn't
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Speaker 4: until a little while ago where we sort of started
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Speaker 4: reconnecting up for obvious reasons. So you know, did things
2:25
Speaker 4: in France and Japan, and it was in different parts
2:26
Speaker 4: of the world. So but yeah, I mean once you
2:29
Speaker 4: played together and spend time together, you always retain a
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Speaker 4: connection of sorts. And so it's been really neat working
2:35
Speaker 4: together in the last little while and getting to spend
2:38
Speaker 4: more time together.
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Speaker 5: It's got any good tales and memories from the from
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Speaker 5: the playing days, pre season, on the field, off the field, let.
2:49
Speaker 6: Stay on field. I think we just remember Robert was
2:55
Speaker 6: a strict rugby player. You know, he knew the game.
2:59
Speaker 6: He always kept us feeding the tackle, so you always
3:01
Speaker 6: rang off his shoulder. He always had a little offload
3:03
Speaker 6: on him. So he said a huge He hasn't scored
3:05
Speaker 6: too many, but there's a few assists. So yeah, look
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Speaker 6: we had it was a great times playing and now
3:13
Speaker 6: you know, the opportunity for us to go back to
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Speaker 6: the game and our roles and like we said, you
3:18
Speaker 6: know we've quite wildly been around play love sas and
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Speaker 6: you come back to and to do a role that
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Speaker 6: we're doing so patiently and for our for our country's honor.
3:27
Speaker 3: What have you made at the start to Super Rugby
3:29
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five show?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, how good. I think everyone's talking about anywhere you go,
3:34
Speaker 6: just at the quality of football, the skill sets, the
3:36
Speaker 6: young parts that are coming through teams. Is a bit
3:40
Speaker 6: of jeopardy, you know, and can win. And I just
3:44
Speaker 6: think shape of the game. You know that the ball
3:45
Speaker 6: and play and all around the world is really high.
3:48
Speaker 6: But Super Rugby has been great to watch and enjoyed
3:52
Speaker 6: it as from a coaching point of view, section point
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Speaker 6: of view, but also just as in viewership.
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Speaker 7: You know, you really entertained early doors.
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Speaker 5: Obviously were four rounds in, but I think you had
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Speaker 5: ten new or blacks in your first year. Anyone catching
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Speaker 5: your eye at this early stage.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, there is, there always is. Look if I say
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Speaker 6: any names or you know, that's what I've learned, you
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Speaker 6: in trouble if you if you make suggestions. But I look,
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Speaker 6: there's always I think some guys that have had their
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Speaker 6: first supers or second supers have really stood up. They've
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Speaker 6: had opportunities, been a couple of injuries they've taken that
4:30
Speaker 6: you know, they've got regular game time and you know
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Speaker 6: they're playing playing some feedless footy and because every game
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Speaker 6: has is tight, you see them under pressure as well
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Speaker 6: in your and just really enjoying the skill sets and bravery.
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Speaker 3: Mark we've talked about about the changes to Super Rugby
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Speaker 3: have the last four or five years. How exciting for
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Speaker 3: you in your role that Super Rugby has got off
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Speaker 3: to a hiss and rule this year.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of things coming to fruition,
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Speaker 4: aren't there that we've talked about for a little while.
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Speaker 4: One was, as Raisor said, the shape of the game
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Speaker 4: and the work we've we've done there, and he and
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Speaker 4: I are in London recently some of those big global
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Speaker 4: meetings and really really positive to hear the recognition of
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Speaker 4: the leadership work we've taken there starting to be a fruit.
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Speaker 4: So that's that's one great thing. Clearly, the Australian teams
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Speaker 4: are highly competitive and that's you know, creating jeopardy as
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Speaker 4: raises mentioned, and real uncertainty and results. And then I
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Speaker 4: think combined we've seen the Commission be able to stand
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Speaker 4: up in a ralibly short amount of time. As we've
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Speaker 4: always said, have a real dedicated focus on the competition,
5:34
Speaker 4: and in terms of the way it's package, branded, communicated,
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Speaker 4: there's been some real improvements there. I mean, how good's
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Speaker 4: fantasy you know, I'm I'm sure you guys are chipping away.
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Speaker 5: You raise, I hear you you're in the fantasy's who's
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Speaker 5: in your team?
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Speaker 2: Oh?
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Speaker 6: Look, we got an email about three days beforehand when
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Speaker 6: my three sons are at it and chipping away at
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Speaker 6: me and asking. They said, you need to know how
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Speaker 6: to do it. Obviously we're doing it.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're all you know, straight down the line and
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Speaker 4: all that.
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Speaker 3: So it's been really good for the competition though, discussions
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Speaker 3: and assuming the NRAL in the past, but just being
6:13
Speaker 3: able to talk about with your colleagues, your friends about
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Speaker 3: who's in your team, who's out, and I'm sure you
6:19
Speaker 3: guys have had discussions about it even though you're allowed
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Speaker 3: to play. Just how it's sort of changed the dynamics
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Speaker 3: a little bit of the competition.
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Speaker 6: I'll give you a high buy. And isn't it You
6:26
Speaker 6: actually got a bit of skin, isn't it? Because your
6:27
Speaker 6: back your players and your team and you know you're
6:30
Speaker 6: looking at your phone watching rugby. It's all of a sudden,
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Speaker 6: people looking up and checking scores, it's live and just
6:36
Speaker 6: that that's where our game is. The entertiment tainment partner.
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Speaker 6: It's just another layer and engaging with people.
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Speaker 5: If we're gettingto some some hot topics, eligibility is a
6:46
Speaker 5: big one. There's been an evolution over time. We all
6:50
Speaker 5: know that you currently can't select All Blacks from offshore.
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Speaker 7: There's the sabbatical options.
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Speaker 5: Where do you both sit currently about the eligibility stance
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Speaker 5: and where do you see it getting too in the
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Speaker 5: next few years.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, we're really clear as an organization. You know,
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Speaker 4: been a lot of say, speculation and talk about it,
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Speaker 4: but through all of that we've been really firm that
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Speaker 4: it's been a big part of successive New Zealand Rugby
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Speaker 4: and the All Blacks for some time. It is a
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Speaker 4: key sort of incentive for players to remain here and
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Speaker 4: it is something that is also important for the wider
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Speaker 4: pathways and development of the game here. So look, it's right.
7:30
Speaker 4: It's an area where there's always probably going to be
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Speaker 4: you know, a degree of scrutiny as it is for
7:34
Speaker 4: many yeas of the game. It's great, you know, there's
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Speaker 4: passion and interest in the game. But for us, we've
7:39
Speaker 4: been able to for a long period of time, retain
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Speaker 4: the vast majority of players we've been wanting to retain,
7:47
Speaker 4: and then obviously in the last little while there's been
7:50
Speaker 4: as you said, within the policy, there's the tools and
7:52
Speaker 4: flexibility to be creative where we need to recognize some
7:55
Speaker 4: of those long term servants that have given so much
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Speaker 4: to the game and be able to give back while
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Speaker 4: retaining them, you know, longer term with the All Blacks
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Speaker 4: and New Zealand Rugby. So overall, you know, we'll always
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Speaker 4: be open to sort of looking at in the future,
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Speaker 4: but at the moment we're pretty firm and supportive of it.
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Speaker 3: Raising you've long them obviously been your one of your
8:14
Speaker 3: lines has been keep an open mind. Where are you
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Speaker 3: at at the moment with the eligibility Suga.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, Look, I had a first a year, you know,
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Speaker 6: so I said, I have a year to look at
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Speaker 6: it and where I stand. And the first thing is,
8:27
Speaker 6: you know, my intentions for the the comment was is
8:30
Speaker 6: it fit for purpose? Still? You know currently in this
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Speaker 6: model where we're sitting, you know, globally and internally, you know,
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Speaker 6: one of my jobs is to make sure that the
8:40
Speaker 6: pathways is strong so we can keep it, can do
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Speaker 6: a flow of quality players enjoy the game and also
8:46
Speaker 6: want to come through and be professional rugby players and aspiration.
8:51
Speaker 6: So we'll talk a little bit later on around the
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Speaker 6: pathway stuff that we're doing. But look, look, I understand
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Speaker 6: how important is and now I'm probably got more insight
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Speaker 6: around the flexibility there is. There isn't the current regulations.
9:05
Speaker 6: You know, it is fit for purpose. There is a
9:09
Speaker 6: little bit of flexibility there. And I just want to
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Speaker 6: sort of give you an example an open mind as
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Speaker 6: someone like a Jordi Barrett. You know, traditionally we've gone
9:15
Speaker 6: to Japan to play. And when Jordi came and said,
9:20
Speaker 6: I've got an option for for for Leinster and another
9:23
Speaker 6: an opportunity, you know, we zoomed and we talked through
9:26
Speaker 6: all the practicalities. What would what would his season look like?
9:31
Speaker 6: Going north? Is it going to make him a better player?
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Speaker 6: You know? And once we'd listened and you know, he
9:37
Speaker 6: had a majority of the six nations off, he'd had
9:40
Speaker 6: a break, he'd been well coached. You know, I just
9:42
Speaker 6: had to catch up with Jack Naber when I was
9:44
Speaker 6: over there and talked and sat down with him and
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Speaker 6: just how impressed he was as a as a player
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Speaker 6: as a man, how hard he worked on and off
9:53
Speaker 6: the field. That was just incredibly impressed. You know, we
9:56
Speaker 6: touched base with him. He's an on field coach to Jordy,
9:59
Speaker 6: so he'd be leaning on and off the field, and
10:01
Speaker 6: that's a prime example of keeping open mind. Someone like
10:04
Speaker 6: himself going north. Okay, great, we're in a position now
10:08
Speaker 6: we'll hear come back as a better player and ultimately
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Speaker 6: that's what we want out of this. And he's just
10:13
Speaker 6: one example. You know, potentially more to come.
10:15
Speaker 3: Do you see see more potentially of those sort of
10:18
Speaker 3: deals happening in the future.
10:19
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, look at what's worked. You know, look if
10:21
Speaker 6: at the essences. You know, we're still keeping the integrity
10:27
Speaker 6: of all our pathway programs. So a guy doesn't go
10:31
Speaker 6: away and play. We're picking people from overseas. They've earned
10:34
Speaker 6: the opportunity, they've been loyal, they've done their time. They
10:37
Speaker 6: get to go away and then come back. And he'll
10:38
Speaker 6: come back and you know, he'll be a coach at
10:40
Speaker 6: the Canes again. As there's a great player player coach
10:43
Speaker 6: as we know, and other players you know where they
10:47
Speaker 6: sit in their career, they had that opportunity to as well.
10:50
Speaker 3: Because you look at South Africa obviously, and they can
10:52
Speaker 3: pick whoever they want, whenever they want. That wouldn't work
10:56
Speaker 3: for the all blacks.
10:56
Speaker 6: You don't think, well, one sort of thing. I've learned
10:58
Speaker 6: to talk through it and you look at ther stats
11:00
Speaker 6: and it suits their model. It suits their model for
11:05
Speaker 6: them where they currently are, you know, financially, where they sit.
11:12
Speaker 6: What do we current competitions in their players, so that
11:16
Speaker 6: there's model for us. We're in great shape. You know,
11:18
Speaker 6: we've got a great group of low all blacks and
11:23
Speaker 6: you know, super players that want to be all blacks
11:25
Speaker 6: and young kids that want to be all blacks and
11:27
Speaker 6: know that they're playing our country. To get that dead opportunity.
11:31
Speaker 4: I mean, we've got to focus guys on what we
11:33
Speaker 4: think is best for New Zealand. When there's always that's
11:35
Speaker 4: a beauty of the sport. There's always comparisons and analysis
11:38
Speaker 4: is the different models. But we fundamentally believe this can
11:41
Speaker 4: work for New Zealand rugby and we are retaining majority
11:44
Speaker 4: of players and you know, whilst we might not have
11:49
Speaker 4: all the resource and all the money compared to some markets,
11:53
Speaker 4: we're working really hard around environments. You know, great coaching environments,
11:56
Speaker 4: great competitions got virgin and competitions are going to get
11:59
Speaker 4: better and better. Grete five year calendar coming up. In
12:01
Speaker 4: terms of what's possible around rugby in this part of
12:04
Speaker 4: the world with the Lions tours, the South Africa All
12:07
Speaker 4: Blacks concept, I mean, we think super rugby is going
12:09
Speaker 4: to get better and better. So focusing really hard on
12:12
Speaker 4: will always keep you a little bit on what's going
12:14
Speaker 4: on around the world, but focusing really hard on what
12:15
Speaker 4: we're doing as well.
12:17
Speaker 5: You mentioned the Jaudy Bearer example. Yes, another one who
12:20
Speaker 5: you don't have access to. Richid Wonger World Class ten.
12:24
Speaker 5: You know, I'm well, I think you both. You know,
12:27
Speaker 5: went up to Japan to meet with him at the
12:29
Speaker 5: back end of last year. I don't know the nature
12:32
Speaker 5: of those conversations, but obviously there was a desire to
12:34
Speaker 5: bring him home early. Why did he not come home
12:37
Speaker 5: early was as simple as couldn't reach terms with Tashiba
12:41
Speaker 5: financially or.
12:43
Speaker 4: There's a lot of speculations around that last year wasn't
12:45
Speaker 4: the ELM. So look, I think clearly people understand there
12:49
Speaker 4: were some conversations through last year, but ultimately, you know,
12:53
Speaker 4: Richie's made a decision to work through to the obligations
12:59
Speaker 4: under his contract. You know, we respect that and we're
13:03
Speaker 4: moving forward. As we say, we're really clear on our
13:06
Speaker 4: eligibility rules, and you know we certainly always respect players
13:11
Speaker 4: that have left the All Blacks and are playing off shore.
13:13
Speaker 4: And there's always a degree of contact. You know that
13:16
Speaker 4: that happens, but that's good coaches and good good people
13:20
Speaker 4: doing their jobs probably, and that happens a lot of level.
13:23
Speaker 4: That happens with players that are very much passed, you know,
13:25
Speaker 4: their playing careers, and that that's just the nature of
13:27
Speaker 4: the all Black environment and the All Black family. So hey, look,
13:31
Speaker 4: you know we're clearly moving forward and got a lot
13:33
Speaker 4: of belief and the people coming through and the protocols
13:37
Speaker 4: were gone in place.
13:38
Speaker 5: Scott Distill hope Richie will come back next year that
13:41
Speaker 5: winners contract finishes and push for a place in the
13:44
Speaker 5: twenty twenty seven World cut.
13:47
Speaker 6: Yeah, look, all plays you want me all your best
13:51
Speaker 6: players available. You know that's what it takes to win
13:54
Speaker 6: a Rugby World Cup. And you know you keep connected
13:58
Speaker 6: with all of them, doesn't matter and where they are at,
14:01
Speaker 6: you know you still get message from from the old
14:03
Speaker 6: players now and again, chicking in and making sure you know,
14:05
Speaker 6: Sam Kaine, so there's time, but he's you know, he's
14:09
Speaker 6: a prime example. You know he checks it and making
14:12
Speaker 6: sure everything's right in the off season. But yeah, you
14:15
Speaker 6: just want your best players.
14:17
Speaker 3: Saw Boden Baron and Damian McKenzie last year have that
14:20
Speaker 3: ten jersey. How important are they in this next three
14:23
Speaker 3: years for you as an All Blacks coach?
14:25
Speaker 6: Oh critical, Look like I just you know b Mac,
14:30
Speaker 6: you know what he year that he had gave him
14:32
Speaker 6: plenty of opportunity, you know, just his ability to control
14:38
Speaker 6: the game with his boot. You know, I think the
14:40
Speaker 6: Irish game, how good was that? You know the week
14:42
Speaker 6: before he came on and kicked the ball from the
14:44
Speaker 6: selon to England to change the match. And then then
14:46
Speaker 6: he owned that game against Ireland, you know, and got
14:50
Speaker 6: picked in the World fifteen as a ten. And you know,
14:54
Speaker 6: so it's impact off the bench as match management, his
15:00
Speaker 6: ability to lead the teams to being credible. And you've
15:03
Speaker 6: got Bone who's just evergreen, just keeps going and so
15:06
Speaker 6: so classy, just got so much time time. He's a game,
15:10
Speaker 6: there's a kicking game. Been awesome for US coaches. He's
15:14
Speaker 6: been great off field. So both of them compliment each
15:16
Speaker 6: other really well, and because they can pay ten and
15:18
Speaker 6: fifteen and you know both have grad and pecks off
15:21
Speaker 6: the bench are really really available to us.
15:23
Speaker 5: I think the makes off contract this year. Yeah, you're
15:25
Speaker 5: going down to the tron and a rasource or something.
15:30
Speaker 7: Keep him in for a minute.
15:32
Speaker 6: Oh look, you know he's he's a linebreaker. He's got
15:36
Speaker 6: that special ability to do something others don't, you know,
15:40
Speaker 6: every intention and work as hard as we possibly can.
15:43
Speaker 6: And they have a player like him. You know, he's
15:45
Speaker 6: in that peak of his powers of twenty nine. He's
15:49
Speaker 6: learned so much, he's mature, and you know for sure
15:55
Speaker 6: we're on them.
15:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, Razor, how would you look back at your first
15:58
Speaker 3: year in charge last year in twenty twenty four. I'm
16:01
Speaker 3: sure he had a few thoughts about that over summer.
16:04
Speaker 3: How you look back now where we sit here in March.
16:06
Speaker 6: You have plenty of views and more into I look
16:10
Speaker 6: from a personal point of view and a team point
16:11
Speaker 6: of view, Like I think, you only learn by doing. Really,
16:16
Speaker 6: otherwise you're just reading, aren't you until you actually put
16:18
Speaker 6: your hands to it and your feet toward and you
16:20
Speaker 6: actually take step forward to the moment. So all the
16:22
Speaker 6: preparation that I've done coaching before. It got you to
16:26
Speaker 6: that point, but then it's the people in front of
16:27
Speaker 6: you and your and your environment and your group and
16:30
Speaker 6: what that needs. Like so statistically it's like we you know,
16:35
Speaker 6: made the most line breaks, most of defender's bet and
16:39
Speaker 6: most off flows and most carries and will rub you.
16:41
Speaker 6: So it was some incredible stats. You know, we've got
16:44
Speaker 6: better and better as our game understanding and the calls
16:47
Speaker 6: and we embedded it through the year, and but we
16:49
Speaker 6: just didn't quite couldn't finish enough. You know, there was
16:54
Speaker 6: three games that are one scores. You know they could
16:56
Speaker 6: have gone each way, you know about to ball risk
16:59
Speaker 6: all things that's test footy, you know, so finishing a
17:03
Speaker 6: little bit of execution and a little bit of maybe
17:07
Speaker 6: game management, and so that's been our focus. But also
17:11
Speaker 6: with the intent just how much we've created. That's that's
17:14
Speaker 6: the part that gets us excited. You know, we're aligned
17:18
Speaker 6: with know how our weeks are. It was a massive
17:21
Speaker 6: change for all of us, so you know we're in
17:22
Speaker 6: a good spot.
17:23
Speaker 3: Do those stats give you confidence that you're on the
17:26
Speaker 3: right right track, you know obviously, Yeah.
17:28
Speaker 6: That's one I mentioned.
17:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the states that you need to improve
17:33
Speaker 3: your top top of those worldboard.
17:36
Speaker 6: Look in the just thing, it's the tightest internation rugby
17:40
Speaker 6: is the title has ever been in history. You know,
17:42
Speaker 6: there's there's one score games. The top eight all can
17:45
Speaker 6: beat each other, you know. Look, you can look at
17:47
Speaker 6: Italy and Argentina, you know a couple of scores just recently.
17:52
Speaker 6: But other than that, on their day, you know a
17:54
Speaker 6: lot of their players playing the top fourteen, they play together,
17:56
Speaker 6: they've come through their age groups together, they play in
18:00
Speaker 6: the same team and their comps, or they're playing for
18:03
Speaker 6: Toulouse or or been in a top club up in Europe.
18:07
Speaker 6: So the coach really well, so Test forty as tits
18:10
Speaker 6: has ever been, you know, and that's a great challenge.
18:14
Speaker 6: That's why you look at it. You know you're going
18:16
Speaker 6: to be tested every test match. Tier one's extremely strong.
18:21
Speaker 6: TI two you know, on the day can come through
18:23
Speaker 6: install they get everyone available, and that's what normally happens
18:26
Speaker 6: around World Cups. So just as tough to beat as well.
18:30
Speaker 6: So yeah, there's there's lots of challenges, but goad opportunities
18:33
Speaker 6: as well.
18:34
Speaker 2: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fairs.
18:43
Speaker 3: Every try try ten sixty sec every tackle to tackle,
18:46
Speaker 3: tackles get up again?
18:51
Speaker 6: Are it's rugby direct?
18:53
Speaker 7: Ladies talk on a person all of you?
18:56
Speaker 5: Ovious said seven years with the Crusader's unrivaled success. From
19:00
Speaker 5: I guess a pure coaching point of view, how different
19:03
Speaker 5: was it Super rugby to international?
19:05
Speaker 7: How you prepare your week? The intensity of it?
19:08
Speaker 5: You know, I guess Super rugby is more of a
19:10
Speaker 5: campaign where Test rugby is very week to week.
19:14
Speaker 7: How different was it?
19:15
Speaker 6: Yeah? Look, the thing is because we came in, everything
19:18
Speaker 6: was new and new, change of calls and new stuff
19:20
Speaker 6: and everything. It took a while to know just when
19:23
Speaker 6: you embied something. When you learn, like just instinctively you
19:27
Speaker 6: move before the call. You know, it takes time to
19:31
Speaker 6: listen to a call. What is our call? Where we're
19:33
Speaker 6: going to go? And if someone just yells out blast
19:36
Speaker 6: or whatever the word is, where do they have to be?
19:38
Speaker 6: And it took us a couple of even though the
19:41
Speaker 6: moving before it's actually been said, because they're instinctively understanding
19:45
Speaker 6: where to go. So it took us that period of
19:48
Speaker 6: time to go and during our weeks, you know, getting
19:50
Speaker 6: the balance of the week, the intensity, you know, we're
19:52
Speaker 6: away one hundred and twenty days, twenty one she's on.
19:55
Speaker 6: So how do you get the balance of the week.
19:57
Speaker 6: You spend a lot of time with your leaders, you know,
20:00
Speaker 6: making sure you're managing get the best out of them.
20:02
Speaker 6: They energy levels high, but you're still giving them what
20:05
Speaker 6: they need. From a rugby point of view, and culturally.
20:09
Speaker 5: The theming elements a big part of you and you're
20:13
Speaker 5: coaching super rugby. With the Crusaders, you had the Rumble
20:16
Speaker 5: and the jungle. I think there was the Melbourne Storm
20:19
Speaker 5: one and there was a Seventh Heaven.
20:23
Speaker 7: With the All Blacks. What was that like?
20:25
Speaker 5: You know, I think there was together we walk and
20:28
Speaker 5: maybe on the end of your tour looking to create
20:31
Speaker 5: something around the Invincibles.
20:33
Speaker 7: What was that like? Did it work?
20:37
Speaker 5: Can you give us any insights as to what sort
20:39
Speaker 5: of themes that you tried to bring.
20:42
Speaker 6: I'll talk about the ones you mentioned at the end
20:43
Speaker 6: of the year. We use the Invincibles, you know, then
20:46
Speaker 6: incredible tour that they had and way for nine months.
20:50
Speaker 6: I think what was after he of a boat trip
20:52
Speaker 6: and we just wanted to show respect. One part of
20:54
Speaker 6: the thing around the theme is entwined the legacy and
20:58
Speaker 6: the people that walked before us and what they've done,
21:00
Speaker 6: how they left it for in print, so weekend from
21:03
Speaker 6: and what we need to do it. So you know,
21:07
Speaker 6: the theme for the end of their tour was some
21:09
Speaker 6: basic five games, fourteen games, you know, the most in
21:12
Speaker 6: the test season he's been and how do we create
21:18
Speaker 6: a togetherness so that year we take this on. You know,
21:22
Speaker 6: you Ireland haven't lost the home for a number of
21:26
Speaker 6: years and nineteen Test matches and you know, TWI twicken
21:29
Speaker 6: them and then you go to France with probably one
21:30
Speaker 6: of the best shows he's been and footy and how
21:33
Speaker 6: do you embrace that and how do you how do
21:34
Speaker 6: you how do you come all on? Because that's what
21:35
Speaker 6: the Invincibles were, So look, we tied a little bit
21:38
Speaker 6: of the theme around that, just to make sure we'll
21:40
Speaker 6: bring the past, the prison and what import we want
21:43
Speaker 6: to leave for now. Yeah, I got some goodbye and
21:47
Speaker 6: the boys still talk about it and and you know,
21:50
Speaker 6: just to learn the stories of what they went through
21:52
Speaker 6: was a big part of.
21:55
Speaker 7: How we tied it and got a couple up your
21:57
Speaker 7: sleeve for this year.
21:58
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think just one a natural storyteller enjoy that
22:03
Speaker 6: side of the game. Cannects put picture, puts, pictures, pictures
22:08
Speaker 6: and peace head so they start seeing before they do
22:11
Speaker 6: something what we're trying to achieve.
22:13
Speaker 3: We'll look at twenty twenty five in a moment or two.
22:15
Speaker 3: But Mark, I guess, where do you see New Zealand
22:18
Speaker 3: rugby at at the moment? Is that obviously the any
22:20
Speaker 3: of sug which is unplayed recent times is questions about
22:23
Speaker 3: I guess, revenue streams and everything like that. So New
22:26
Speaker 3: Zealand rugby is a head since twenty twenty five. You
22:27
Speaker 3: mentioned in the big five years coming up, where do
22:29
Speaker 3: you think the state of the game is in New Zealand.
22:32
Speaker 4: Well, we're really optimistic about the future. We've been really
22:36
Speaker 4: clear about that and already in this year, and we've
22:39
Speaker 4: talked about Super Rugby already in some of the work
22:41
Speaker 4: coming to Fruition that we've talked about. On the field,
22:44
Speaker 4: we're seeing some amazing signals throughout the community game and
22:48
Speaker 4: some constant initiative and leadership that we're playing into the
22:52
Speaker 4: community space. We were kicking off some new initiatives at
22:54
Speaker 4: the moment as it relates to you know, the business
22:59
Speaker 4: of the sport. We still remain incredibly optimistic about the
23:03
Speaker 4: strength of our organization and brands, and I think that's
23:07
Speaker 4: probably one thing raised as we talks about what's being new.
23:09
Speaker 4: It's the insights he's gotten to being offshore with the
23:12
Speaker 4: team and seeing the connection that we have to different
23:16
Speaker 4: organizations and fans around the world, and that really provides
23:19
Speaker 4: the basis for us to continue to grow. So, you know,
23:22
Speaker 4: you mentioned Anios. We've been really clear that we believe
23:27
Speaker 4: in the position we have around that issue really strongly.
23:29
Speaker 4: But at the same time, we are obviously having conversations
23:34
Speaker 4: about other future partners or growing existing partnerships, and those
23:39
Speaker 4: conversations are going well as well, so a lot there's
23:42
Speaker 4: certainly some work to do this year. We've been really
23:44
Speaker 4: clear around that that we want to have a look
23:46
Speaker 4: at the model, the overall model for the game and
23:48
Speaker 4: the system in New Zealand. We've never had more revenue.
23:50
Speaker 4: You know, we're well north of three hundred and fifty
23:52
Speaker 4: million dollars per year in the game now, so we
23:54
Speaker 4: believe that should form the basis for creating a model
23:57
Speaker 4: where we can invest in all of the right areas,
24:00
Speaker 4: be more aligned as a game, to recognize the purpose
24:02
Speaker 4: of each stakeholder within the system, and create a model
24:05
Speaker 4: that everyone can live with you in the near future,
24:10
Speaker 4: or while we continue to build a business case for
24:12
Speaker 4: growing revenue where we see on an everyday basis where
24:16
Speaker 4: there is potential and really believe in it.
24:18
Speaker 5: The broadcast negotiations are gouably the biggest ticket item in
24:22
Speaker 5: the game.
24:23
Speaker 7: How's that going?
24:25
Speaker 5: And I guess specifically around the zone, did do you
24:28
Speaker 5: see them as a as a genuine player? Do your
24:30
Speaker 5: hope expect them to lodge and offer to create some
24:33
Speaker 5: competitive tension there?
24:35
Speaker 8: Well, you know, we can't talk about that. I'd say
24:41
Speaker 8: what I said before. We we we really believe in
24:45
Speaker 8: the product. We believe in the future calendar.
24:48
Speaker 4: We believe having just got back from London where the
24:51
Speaker 4: quality of the international game and the new competitions is going.
24:55
Speaker 4: We believe there's more storytelling and star power and the
24:58
Speaker 4: key personalities in the game, be they players, coaches, whatever
25:02
Speaker 4: they may be, men's womens. You know, we just think
25:04
Speaker 4: the future of the sport is really exciting and and
25:08
Speaker 4: we think, you know, when you step back and you
25:10
Speaker 4: look at the history of our sport by comparison to others,
25:13
Speaker 4: we're very very young on this journey of professionalism in
25:16
Speaker 4: our sport and we're really living through the next iteration
25:20
Speaker 4: of that right now. So you know, some of these
25:22
Speaker 4: things take time, but it's clear the more time you
25:25
Speaker 4: spend in some of those different environments. There's a lot
25:27
Speaker 4: to be optimistic.
25:28
Speaker 3: Around the Nation's Cup coming in next year. That's that ever
25:30
Speaker 3: forgetting too is the Club World Cup, which is on
25:32
Speaker 3: the horizon I think still to be signed off. But
25:35
Speaker 3: is this the biggest change for rugby since it went
25:37
Speaker 3: pro just all these new elements coming into.
25:40
Speaker 4: The games in terms of calendar.
25:42
Speaker 3: Daring, competition.
25:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think we're really proud of
25:46
Speaker 4: the work we've done in the space. We've played a
25:48
Speaker 4: key leadership role in a lot of those competitions you mentioned,
25:52
Speaker 4: you know, and that alongside the work we've done on
25:58
Speaker 4: field product means that I think there's clear signals we're
26:01
Speaker 4: listening to the fans here. We know the players are
26:04
Speaker 4: really excited about it. I think when Raiser thinks about,
26:07
Speaker 4: you know, a long tour to South Africa, excitement and
26:10
Speaker 4: then Jesus is new and different, a couple of deep
26:13
Speaker 4: breaths that come in there.
26:14
Speaker 3: But we've got a spreadsheets a hundred for a warm
26:25
Speaker 3: up game leaning myself might be able to help her.
26:28
Speaker 6: Okay, get your health checks.
26:31
Speaker 4: So so yeah, I mean overall, we think it's as
26:36
Speaker 4: I said earlier, this sort of culmination of a lot
26:38
Speaker 4: of hard work coming together to mean there's really exciting future.
26:42
Speaker 5: And edit of the game is just picking up on
26:45
Speaker 5: something Mark said before about personalities in the game. You
26:49
Speaker 5: know you're a character, you've got a personality. Has there
26:54
Speaker 5: been an adjustment living in the bright spotlights? You know?
27:00
Speaker 7: Have you had to adjust it all? Or do you
27:02
Speaker 7: feel like you can be authentically you.
27:05
Speaker 6: I look on as myself. I think it's Mom and
27:08
Speaker 6: Dad taught me that growing up and always put on
27:11
Speaker 6: me to make sure that you can be yourself. One
27:14
Speaker 6: thing as being a public figure, you can get public feedback.
27:17
Speaker 6: So and that's the great thing, Like you've actually got
27:21
Speaker 6: to embrace it because if you've got you know, somebody
27:25
Speaker 6: in the queue at the supermarket and you know she's
27:31
Speaker 6: she's someone's grannies that someone's kids played and I watched them,
27:35
Speaker 6: you know, and you should have picked them. And you
27:39
Speaker 6: know everyone's a selector because they allowed to be. And
27:43
Speaker 6: this is great and someone will give you a reas night.
27:45
Speaker 6: But that's part of the role. And so now now
27:49
Speaker 6: you're in the you're in the country figure or a
27:51
Speaker 6: public figure. You just got to accept it and realize
27:54
Speaker 6: that they care. You know, they are saying it because
27:56
Speaker 6: they care about the game and they've got an opinion
27:58
Speaker 6: and there are part of it. So that's a that's
28:00
Speaker 6: a real honor. That's how I see it. But you know,
28:03
Speaker 6: the everything you say or do, there's always as someone's
28:09
Speaker 6: always got another angle on it. Like you genuinely want
28:12
Speaker 6: to do something good intent, but you're doing it for
28:15
Speaker 6: this reason, you know, And that's your guys job, isn't
28:17
Speaker 6: it You guys to find an angle and dig a
28:19
Speaker 6: hole in it and accept the that's part of the role.
28:23
Speaker 5: Just on that theme, I guess in terms of personalities,
28:26
Speaker 5: do you think Rugby could sell its personalities better? Because
28:29
Speaker 5: it is I guess hard as well in a media
28:31
Speaker 5: landscape where things can be skewed. But I guess if
28:35
Speaker 5: you look at Global Sport America in particular, they project
28:39
Speaker 5: and sell their athletes and their personalities really well.
28:43
Speaker 4: Well. I think again, we're on a bit of an
28:46
Speaker 4: evolution in the space, aren't we. And I think you'd
28:48
Speaker 4: have to agree that over the last few years. We've
28:50
Speaker 4: certainly been more open and accessible in a lot of
28:54
Speaker 4: our environments, but there's a you know, there's a real
29:00
Speaker 4: constant sort of tension in this space. In the New
29:02
Speaker 4: Zealand Rugby and All Blacks and Black Ferns have always
29:06
Speaker 4: been founded on team first and what's best the team,
29:08
Speaker 4: what's speaks for the country, what's special for the organization,
29:11
Speaker 4: and we're just seeing this evolution to the fact that players,
29:13
Speaker 4: you know, they want to have voice, they and we
29:15
Speaker 4: want to embrace that. The fact that you know, there
29:19
Speaker 4: are issues, there are topics they want to maybe be
29:23
Speaker 4: more open about, and we have to find a way
29:25
Speaker 4: to embrace that and evolve as a sport so it
29:27
Speaker 4: doesn't happen overnight. You know, we hear that feedback to
29:31
Speaker 4: you know, the reference to the US sports and that
29:33
Speaker 4: sort of thing, but that is professional sports, you know,
29:37
Speaker 4: decades old are you know, probably centuries old in some
29:39
Speaker 4: regards of professional sports. So we're sort of on a
29:43
Speaker 4: path that we really believe in, but sometimes it just
29:45
Speaker 4: takes time.
29:47
Speaker 7: I was just going to bounce around.
29:48
Speaker 5: But going back to the Rugby's greatest role, we talked
29:51
Speaker 5: about South Africa. That's going to be a great, fantastic
29:56
Speaker 5: tour that I think there's going to be four tests
29:58
Speaker 5: and a bit of debate about where that fourth fourth
30:00
Speaker 5: one is going to be. Are you going to give
30:02
Speaker 5: us a Rugby Direct exclusive today and tell us whether
30:05
Speaker 5: we're going to twicken them all the states for that
30:07
Speaker 5: fourth test?
30:08
Speaker 4: Definitely would. Yeah, I know we're still working on it,
30:13
Speaker 4: you know, and uh, look, we just sort of reiterate
30:18
Speaker 4: just how excited we are about the concepts. So look
30:21
Speaker 4: when we when we can share and announce more formally,
30:23
Speaker 4: we we will. But the work's heading in the right direction.
30:27
Speaker 2: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
30:35
Speaker 3: Every try try and sixty six every tackle to tack
30:39
Speaker 3: tackles get up again.
30:43
Speaker 6: Afore it's Rugby Direct Talk.
30:47
Speaker 3: You're both in Europe recently for Shape of Game meetings
30:50
Speaker 3: and seeing the six nations. What did you both glean
30:53
Speaker 3: about the shape of the game globally and where it's
30:55
Speaker 3: heading to at the moment?
30:57
Speaker 6: Yeah, from a from a laws part of it point
31:01
Speaker 6: of view was really it was really good just to
31:04
Speaker 6: see how they run it it. Since your short version
31:07
Speaker 6: is is not going to be too much variation, so
31:10
Speaker 6: we can be consistent and certify what's been done so
31:14
Speaker 6: we can get really good at it. It's good, good
31:16
Speaker 6: for the public, good for the players, good for the
31:17
Speaker 6: coaches and all stakeholders to make sure and the game
31:20
Speaker 6: is in a good state, you know, all and play
31:24
Speaker 6: creating that fatigue the games, rolling people more engaged. So
31:28
Speaker 6: that side of it they've always you know, they covered
31:31
Speaker 6: off the TMO, the foul play stuff, the innovations, the
31:37
Speaker 6: processes and protocols that go on with that as well,
31:39
Speaker 6: and probably the big thing was, you know, the working
31:41
Speaker 6: part was a networking and it was a great chance
31:43
Speaker 6: for sit down with Andy Farrell watch the England Scotland
31:47
Speaker 6: game with him and he's obviously there with a selection
31:49
Speaker 6: point of view, and so we're in the corner of
31:52
Speaker 6: the essay. It was quite nice just to sit down
31:54
Speaker 6: and spend a bit of time with him and understand,
31:57
Speaker 6: you know, his approach to the to the Lions tour.
31:59
Speaker 3: As we record this on the cusp of the Final
32:01
Speaker 3: Six Nations weekend, what have you made of the competition
32:04
Speaker 3: and seeing it up close, you know over the last
32:06
Speaker 3: few weeks.
32:07
Speaker 6: Oh, good for the you know, great ball and play,
32:11
Speaker 6: a lot of tries off off float, the quality of
32:15
Speaker 6: the kicking has been to be but just teams just
32:17
Speaker 6: playing you know, tight matches, you know every anyone can
32:23
Speaker 6: sort of win it for a long period of time.
32:24
Speaker 6: And now it's coming down to the final weekend, so
32:26
Speaker 6: it's everything in one out of a comp So yeah,
32:28
Speaker 6: it's great quality.
32:29
Speaker 7: Put you on the spot. Here's the world rugby rankings.
32:32
Speaker 5: Can you give me your top five world rugby rankings
32:37
Speaker 5: of test nations?
32:38
Speaker 6: Can I say what they are?
32:40
Speaker 7: Yeah? No, no, no, no, no your your version?
32:43
Speaker 6: No you can't. There will be a headline. Someone's going
32:48
Speaker 6: to be upset and the guy beside.
32:50
Speaker 3: Me, Mark, what did you make about the shape of
32:58
Speaker 3: the game and where it's from a global perspective?
33:01
Speaker 4: I think Raiser has covered off really well that on
33:03
Speaker 4: field component. So what i'd is just the way that's
33:09
Speaker 4: feeding into the future of competitions and calendars, as I've
33:12
Speaker 4: spoken about a few times already today. So look the
33:16
Speaker 4: Nation's Cup, we took another step forward. There are a
33:18
Speaker 4: number of meetings around that, and lock we're only July
33:24
Speaker 4: next year, so we're only whatever it's thirteen or fourteen
33:27
Speaker 4: months until we get into that now. So real momentum
33:29
Speaker 4: starting to build around that so that was positive and
33:32
Speaker 4: as Raisers also said, it's the networking. It's the opportunity
33:36
Speaker 4: to be in the same proximity as leading coaches, leading
33:39
Speaker 4: high performance people, commercial partners, other CEOs and a whole
33:43
Speaker 4: range of different settings that really makes that time valuable.
33:47
Speaker 4: And you know, we do spend a bit of time
33:50
Speaker 4: offshore obviously, and people often ask questions about that. But
33:53
Speaker 4: when you see around where the future of the sport
33:56
Speaker 4: and been growing value in the sport is for a
33:59
Speaker 4: you know, relatively tiny country like New Zealand, as isolated
34:02
Speaker 4: as we are, we have to be having a presence
34:04
Speaker 4: in some of those key markets and outside of the
34:07
Speaker 4: UK and Europe, Asia and North America. With what's coming
34:10
Speaker 4: up in the future around World Cups O there is
34:13
Speaker 4: We've talked about so a lot of meetings talking about
34:15
Speaker 4: the next five to ten years of the sport and
34:17
Speaker 4: how we can play a leadership role in advocating opportunities
34:20
Speaker 4: in those markets and by the same token, helping create
34:24
Speaker 4: values so that ultimately we can invest back in the
34:27
Speaker 4: game at all levels here and I think that's missed sometimes.
34:30
Speaker 4: You know, people see either the all Blacks or myself
34:33
Speaker 4: in different parts of the world. This is ultimately to
34:35
Speaker 4: grow value, to invest to make sure New Zealand Rugby
34:38
Speaker 4: stays strong and the game can be fostered at all levels.
34:40
Speaker 4: That's all we're trying to achieve here, and so we
34:43
Speaker 4: see us invest into you know, I was in Kai
34:45
Speaker 4: Tai yesterday, great session with North and Rugby and they're
34:49
Speaker 4: doing this amazing little development up and around one of
34:51
Speaker 4: them grounds. There as a regional academy in that area.
34:54
Speaker 4: That's only been possible because of the revenue growth we've
34:57
Speaker 4: had in New Zealand rugby and the ability to invest
34:59
Speaker 4: into some of those initiatives. And that's happening, believe it
35:02
Speaker 4: or not. That's happening around a ranger, lots of little
35:05
Speaker 4: different areas in the country at the moment, which is
35:06
Speaker 4: really happening for US.
35:08
Speaker 5: Scot If we look at HITS at twenty twenty five,
35:10
Speaker 5: I guess your coaching team had a few changes last year.
35:14
Speaker 5: How did how did they you know, learn and grow
35:17
Speaker 5: and evolve and is that settled for this year going
35:20
Speaker 5: to stay the same?
35:21
Speaker 6: Yeah, yep, it's a it's a group that were headed
35:26
Speaker 6: end of the tour to probably just started implumt a
35:29
Speaker 6: bit of a DNA how we wanted to play the
35:31
Speaker 6: game and had the ball in their hands for long
35:35
Speaker 6: periods of time and put a lot of pressure on teams.
35:39
Speaker 6: So that will continue. You know, like I said, you
35:41
Speaker 6: look at you look at the trends, you look at
35:42
Speaker 6: how oppositions play. You look at the French because that's
35:46
Speaker 6: who we're playing next, and you see the opportunities but
35:49
Speaker 6: also their threats. You know, they're going to bring a
35:51
Speaker 6: hell of a team out. You know, Fabian Guilty has
35:53
Speaker 6: been there seven years. He knows his way around the
35:56
Speaker 6: rugby world. He's got a really good dep deep squad,
36:00
Speaker 6: folly old players that all could play test football. There's
36:02
Speaker 6: enough experience, enough cohesion, and you know, people say, oh
36:06
Speaker 6: what sort of team they got to playing out. They're
36:08
Speaker 6: going to bring out a good team, you know, and
36:11
Speaker 6: that their season finishes one the final of the top
36:14
Speaker 6: forty in finishes a week later because of the Olympics.
36:16
Speaker 6: That's just the way the season's gone. And but they'll
36:20
Speaker 6: bring them. You know, we expect them to bring out
36:22
Speaker 6: the Intermax and Panos and whoever is in that final.
36:28
Speaker 3: You cano come, you can because there's been talk about
36:30
Speaker 3: obviously a B team, but you reckon the top players
36:32
Speaker 3: will come down to yeah, yeah.
36:33
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think I think it's you have to have
36:36
Speaker 6: that oncet, don't you otherwise? You know, you know, we
36:39
Speaker 6: know we've last year. You never assume anything at Test footy.
36:44
Speaker 6: You know, you're you're one card away, a couple of
36:46
Speaker 6: penalties away from being in the corner, and then your
36:50
Speaker 6: games change really quickly. And the quality and the depth,
36:55
Speaker 6: especially in the French squad from the twenties that have
36:58
Speaker 6: come through. So when what he's done in the last
37:00
Speaker 6: couple of summers of their summer tours, you know, he's
37:03
Speaker 6: taken a group of players they haven't been in their finals,
37:07
Speaker 6: but they're playing now. You know, Bill Buddy and Yeah
37:10
Speaker 6: and all those guys are coming through, you know, Jellybear,
37:13
Speaker 6: all of them can step up. You look at the
37:17
Speaker 6: department off and Luc who came on and wow. You know,
37:20
Speaker 6: so the depth and quality is there is going to
37:23
Speaker 6: be a hell of a Test series. You know, it's
37:24
Speaker 6: the last time we'll get probably three games and one
37:26
Speaker 6: one country, you know, a true, a true series in
37:30
Speaker 6: that regard over the period of time. So we're expecting
37:33
Speaker 6: the best of them.
37:35
Speaker 3: Jordi will you you talk about him early. Is he
37:37
Speaker 3: going to be available for that French series you look
37:39
Speaker 3: to maybe get him back to New Zealand and restam.
37:42
Speaker 6: Yeah, Look, it depends how deep part of us was
37:44
Speaker 6: him to be available for sure, that was part of
37:46
Speaker 6: the deal. That's why it works so well and how
37:48
Speaker 6: they've looked after him. Unfouse, We've got some really good
37:50
Speaker 6: centers in Leinster and just the way it works with
37:55
Speaker 6: their final for the u RC. You know here we
37:57
Speaker 6: definitely come back and be available.
37:58
Speaker 3: How do you balance I guess this cause is second.
38:01
Speaker 3: You're obviously selecting on form versus reputational players that have
38:05
Speaker 3: done the job for you previously in an all black stusey.
38:07
Speaker 3: What's the balance that you look for as a coach?
38:11
Speaker 6: A good question. Current form is important and look you
38:16
Speaker 6: still know the class that there's going to be there,
38:19
Speaker 6: and some guys step up at test footy consistently, doesn't
38:22
Speaker 6: matter if they're playing here Japan, we'll come back from oversee.
38:25
Speaker 6: They've just got the ability to step up really quickly.
38:27
Speaker 6: But a little bit on foreign forming combinations. So look,
38:31
Speaker 6: but as this she has come on, it's chucked up
38:33
Speaker 6: some great young potentials and names and some some players
38:36
Speaker 6: they have been around a while and that's good. That's
38:38
Speaker 6: what we want, you know, around the ability to make
38:41
Speaker 6: it as tough as we possibly can and be consistent
38:44
Speaker 6: each week, and players are doing that. So it's a
38:48
Speaker 6: balance of the two.
38:50
Speaker 5: How much do you live in them now and how
38:52
Speaker 5: much do you plan ahead when you you know, obviously
38:55
Speaker 5: the World Cups big ticular item we talked about Richard
38:58
Speaker 5: Wong about there's others like leicesterifying and Nook who's coming
39:01
Speaker 5: home next year? So what's the balance between living in
39:05
Speaker 5: the now and thinking where do I have to be
39:08
Speaker 5: in twelve twenty four months time?
39:11
Speaker 6: Yeah? Great, so you know your squad see if you
39:15
Speaker 6: look at twenty seven because you have to there's no
39:19
Speaker 6: development time for me, one of the only teams really
39:24
Speaker 6: that in World rugby that you know developments, you win
39:28
Speaker 6: and develop and you know I learned that through the twenties.
39:31
Speaker 6: You know, you don't develop them when that's so you
39:34
Speaker 6: have to have the balance of the two and that's
39:36
Speaker 6: a real art. There's a skill you know, giving guys opportunities,
39:38
Speaker 6: but having to win the test match in front of you,
39:41
Speaker 6: you know, the season last year there was a balance
39:43
Speaker 6: of the of the two and we've had your ten
39:47
Speaker 6: debutants this year. If you get four or five and
39:49
Speaker 6: the next next two years, you start to slidify your group.
39:52
Speaker 6: There's always bolted, there's always opportunities, there's always I want
39:55
Speaker 6: to make that really clear, So don't shut any doors.
39:58
Speaker 6: But then you build the cohesion and understanding and teams
40:01
Speaker 6: that have to go through tough tours, tough tests and
40:06
Speaker 6: build relationships and cohesion. They know how to win game
40:09
Speaker 6: manage together. So then you start to still vide the
40:13
Speaker 6: group at the back end.
40:14
Speaker 5: Just in terms of that selection stopped me if I'm
40:17
Speaker 5: wrong here, but how much does it evolve week to week?
40:20
Speaker 5: Because my senses that the loss in Wellington to the
40:26
Speaker 5: Pumas the following week at eden Park you may have
40:28
Speaker 5: been given guys more opportunities had you not lost that test.
40:32
Speaker 5: So is there is there that sort of swing in
40:35
Speaker 5: a week? Results have a big factor in selection.
40:41
Speaker 6: They can do they can do, you know, like that's
40:46
Speaker 6: a prime example. I think you're you're right, there probably
40:48
Speaker 6: would have been some more opportunities, but Eden Park so
40:51
Speaker 6: dear to us it deserves the honoring of our best
40:55
Speaker 6: test team for that for that week. And as I
40:57
Speaker 6: said like Argentina were good, you know, and we had
40:59
Speaker 6: you know, six bodies come back the next week two
41:01
Speaker 6: which helped. So you know, you all of a sudden
41:05
Speaker 6: you get a bench, you know, and things. You get
41:08
Speaker 6: a depth in your squad straight away, and you've got
41:11
Speaker 6: to respect the team that you're playing in and also
41:14
Speaker 6: the beautiful place of Eden Park.
41:16
Speaker 3: You mentioned Eden Park September the sixth. Yeah, how much
41:19
Speaker 3: you're looking forward to that test already? The spring Box
41:21
Speaker 3: coming to town.
41:21
Speaker 6: Yeah, a great opportunity. You know, it's on the line,
41:24
Speaker 6: isn't it. Those are the ones you want to play
41:26
Speaker 6: in and those ones that get Rugby or every New
41:30
Speaker 6: Zealanders so everyone excited about So, yeah, it's definitely on
41:35
Speaker 6: their calendar. It's exciting.
41:36
Speaker 3: We've seen the spring Box use a six to two
41:38
Speaker 3: and a seven to one bench in France go with
41:41
Speaker 3: it as well, seven to one. Any chance we see
41:44
Speaker 3: the All Blacks go a seven to one bench at
41:46
Speaker 3: some point under Scott Robertson.
41:48
Speaker 6: Well, it's in the laws. So people say, you know,
41:50
Speaker 6: the first thing you're clear is you know, is it right? Well,
41:53
Speaker 6: that's right because in the laws you can do it.
41:56
Speaker 6: And the way they play teams play, especially now, and
42:00
Speaker 6: the fatigue that comes in the games affords the impacts
42:03
Speaker 6: the context that they have so high, so they've got
42:07
Speaker 6: the immediate effect on the game, especially after halftime. And
42:12
Speaker 6: you know, when you can bring an initial loose forward
42:15
Speaker 6: makes a massive difference to it. Yeah, so you look
42:18
Speaker 6: at it. You know, we've considered it ourselves. We believe
42:22
Speaker 6: that wasn't quite We went it was it quite week
42:26
Speaker 6: for it. But look it's working and renovative and you've
42:30
Speaker 6: you've got to you've got to keep it on that trend.
42:32
Speaker 5: So it's deffie an option one smoky out there at
42:36
Speaker 5: the moment for you both, Haylen Ponger. Any any sense
42:44
Speaker 5: that he may come over and have a crack at
42:47
Speaker 5: rugby in the next year or two.
42:49
Speaker 4: Are you're hitting me there, mate, I'm not. I'm not
42:51
Speaker 4: across seen maybe, but I haven't seen that.
42:55
Speaker 6: Oh look, look obviously he's done it, you know, a
42:59
Speaker 6: few years ago as well. He's obviously showed us tim
43:02
Speaker 6: and interest. But if he comes to us, he will
43:03
Speaker 6: have a conversation. You always do was keep the door open.
43:06
Speaker 6: But he's a hell of a player, isn't he. If
43:09
Speaker 6: he shows interest, you know, there could be a conversation
43:13
Speaker 6: if he gets so that.
43:14
Speaker 5: What about more broadly, I guess about the NRL converts
43:18
Speaker 5: in rugby union.
43:19
Speaker 7: We've seen.
43:21
Speaker 5: Rogers, two of us, Shik, Joseph Suili, Sonny, but Williams
43:25
Speaker 5: back in time. What what's your view about whether it
43:29
Speaker 5: works and maybe how long a successful transition would take?
43:35
Speaker 6: Yeah, good, good question. Traditionally, the backs or outside backs
43:40
Speaker 6: that come over, you know, especially or even you look
43:44
Speaker 6: back and you know the lotty to carry days, don't you.
43:47
Speaker 6: You know Wendle Sailor Rogers, Yeah, Matt Rodgers and those
43:51
Speaker 6: sorts of guys. You know, like they've got a role
43:53
Speaker 6: defend the last or second to last on the wing.
43:55
Speaker 6: So they've got crearly great ball carriers, good defenders, tacklers, sorry,
44:02
Speaker 6: but the defensive stuff on the edge. That those are
44:05
Speaker 6: the ones who made the transition. So you look at Sonny,
44:07
Speaker 6: they're a great So everyone's different. Firstly, different skill sets.
44:12
Speaker 6: Sunny when he came over, he was still in his
44:13
Speaker 6: early twenties. He'd gone through Toulon, had a great period
44:18
Speaker 6: of you know, he was mentored by Tana. He had
44:23
Speaker 6: a period of time where he learned the game because
44:26
Speaker 6: you go to learn the game if you've been out
44:28
Speaker 6: for a period of time and then how long how
44:30
Speaker 6: quickly can you transition? The great thing is for him
44:33
Speaker 6: is because his long levers is a big man, he
44:36
Speaker 6: could get his arms free, just carried hard, got his
44:38
Speaker 6: shoulders through the line and had a good offload. So
44:41
Speaker 6: he came to a great club and well coached with
44:45
Speaker 6: Dave Rennie and the Chiefs, and all of a sudden
44:47
Speaker 6: he was fast tracked. So everyone's going to be different
44:53
Speaker 6: how quickly you come through, But probably the best ones
44:56
Speaker 6: and the best transitions. I've got a multi skill set,
44:59
Speaker 6: and you know it's up to them how quickly they transition.
45:03
Speaker 7: JK.
45:04
Speaker 5: Mark ellis they went the other ways. You think you
45:06
Speaker 5: two could have hit a crack believed well, I did.
45:10
Speaker 6: Play a little bit when I was going up and
45:12
Speaker 6: had a couple offers along the way. You know, yeah, but.
45:15
Speaker 7: It was her game calling.
45:17
Speaker 6: Oh a lot of Britain go there, that's Jesus more
45:22
Speaker 6: in trouble. But I think I think you know that
45:28
Speaker 6: you look at their game and you learn a lot
45:30
Speaker 6: of it. You know, Look, Rugby follows a lot of
45:32
Speaker 6: the trends in league. You know, with the way they're defend.
45:36
Speaker 6: They back in the day, they're shutting. Now they're coming
45:38
Speaker 6: off and getting in passing lanes and league defense, speed,
45:41
Speaker 6: leagues of texts. You spend a lot of time looking
45:43
Speaker 6: at them, and you might and but our Game two
45:45
Speaker 6: is so innovative and you know, a lot more kicking
45:47
Speaker 6: and stuff in it as well. But yeah, we can
45:51
Speaker 6: learn off each other. But yeah, definitely definitely a back row.
45:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, as we wrap this up, guys, final question for
46:00
Speaker 3: both of you help for Raiser, what does success look
46:02
Speaker 3: like for the All Blacks and twenty twenty five? And
46:04
Speaker 3: for Mark Robinson what does it broad look like for
46:06
Speaker 3: New Zealand rugby success in twenty two You decide between
46:09
Speaker 3: yourselves so you.
46:11
Speaker 4: Oh, look, I've spoken to a few of the things
46:12
Speaker 4: through through the interview, Elliott, but we've got a big
46:17
Speaker 4: focus this year on the opportunity to look at our model,
46:21
Speaker 4: the overall model and system and sustainability of the game.
46:24
Speaker 4: So we're looking forward to taking the opportunity to work
46:26
Speaker 4: with stakeholders and partnering to grow that. That's really important
46:30
Speaker 4: to us. Clearly on the field, you know, it's a
46:33
Speaker 4: big year with the Black Ferns in terms of Rugby
46:35
Speaker 4: World Cup twenty five, it's our pinnacle event this year.
46:38
Speaker 4: And then we've just talked a bit or a lot
46:41
Speaker 4: about the All Blacks this year and the opportunities they have.
46:43
Speaker 4: It's just an incredible schedule domestically and internationally. You know,
46:48
Speaker 4: we haven't touched on the Chicago game today, but you know,
46:50
Speaker 4: selling that well in that market that quickly is phenomenal.
46:56
Speaker 4: So there's there's lots of great opportunities on the field
47:00
Speaker 4: with our teams and Blacks, and then at the community game,
47:04
Speaker 4: as I said, we've got just loads of really good
47:06
Speaker 4: innovation coming into that space. Excited about some really good signs.
47:09
Speaker 4: In the last two years, we've had consecutive significant growth
47:14
Speaker 4: in some areas of the game which are really positive
47:15
Speaker 4: about as well. So so yeah, look, if you if
47:18
Speaker 4: you're sort of if you chunk those areas up, there's
47:23
Speaker 4: there's clearly winning it on the on the global stage,
47:26
Speaker 4: there's community and what's dear to us here and growing
47:28
Speaker 4: that and then's our model and part of that, I
47:31
Speaker 4: guess the final point would be continuing to grow our
47:33
Speaker 4: commercial reach and our digital reach, because that's that's the
47:36
Speaker 4: basis for growing value in the game and being able
47:38
Speaker 4: to reinvest back into it. So along the way there's
47:40
Speaker 4: some real key measures and what we do there. So
47:43
Speaker 4: it's always heaps on guys, but we're you know, we're
47:46
Speaker 4: equally passionate about our areas and what we're trying to
47:48
Speaker 4: achieve and looking forward to the year.
47:50
Speaker 6: Yeah, sere with the Black fans as well. They're a
47:52
Speaker 6: bit to do with nun Bunting. One way of set
47:54
Speaker 6: it up. Everyone's lined with another demon black from the coaches,
47:58
Speaker 6: so you know with Ubunting and Arabia, couple of them
48:01
Speaker 6: so all the best you know, we watch from a
48:03
Speaker 6: farm connecting. So how exciting is that we learn a
48:07
Speaker 6: bit off them as well? You always do. Success for
48:10
Speaker 6: us is actually keep creating, but finishing and executing, you know,
48:14
Speaker 6: both sides of the ball. It's really critical and and
48:18
Speaker 6: just you just keep temping ours you know, our DNA
48:24
Speaker 6: on the game, keep being trusted, trusting ourselves and being
48:27
Speaker 6: brave and playing some good footy and then we'll get results.
48:30
Speaker 7: How important is it?
48:31
Speaker 5: Just lastly that you do have the the faith and
48:36
Speaker 5: trust and confidence to stick with what you want to
48:38
Speaker 5: do and not.
48:40
Speaker 7: Follow others or bowl to pressure or results.
48:42
Speaker 5: But but if it doesn't work, you have the faith
48:45
Speaker 5: to stick with what stylistically you want to do.
48:49
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's the imbalance of it. You've still got to
48:51
Speaker 6: have people that challenge your thoughts or on it, but
48:53
Speaker 6: thoughts on it. But you're still got to go back
48:55
Speaker 6: to your the identity piece to what am I going
48:58
Speaker 6: to stand by here? What's really important to us? Make
49:00
Speaker 6: sure you have metrics that keep on top of it,
49:02
Speaker 6: and someone on your shoulders. Well, just keep reminding you
49:06
Speaker 6: either doing a good job or you could do the
49:09
Speaker 6: like you guys.
49:15
Speaker 3: It's Scott Robertson. Thank you so Much's I on Rugby Direct.
49:17
Speaker 3: It's been a great discussion. Thanks guys.
49:19
Speaker 4: Thanks guys, appreciate its.
49:22
Speaker 6: Rugby Direct.
49:23
Speaker 3: How would buds talks b That was Mirke Robinson and
49:27
Speaker 3: Scott Robertson joining us on Rugby Direct. Hope you enjoyed
49:31
Speaker 3: that chat with them, an extended chance to get into
49:34
Speaker 3: some of the issues around New Zealand rugby. Hopefully it
49:37
Speaker 3: answered some of your questions as listeners as well. All
49:42
Speaker 3: thanks to our friends at Habit Health tackling all your
49:44
Speaker 3: aches and pains from sport and work. Thanks to those
49:47
Speaker 3: that help produce that podcast Andy Enuff for tying Get
49:50
Speaker 3: All Together. We'll be back next week with more Rugby Direct.
49:57
Speaker 1: For more from News Talks, ed B, Listen live on
50:00
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50:03
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