Latest / This Week On ICE / Her ICE arrest at SFO went viral. Now, her friends are working to bring her home.

Transcript

Her ICE arrest at SFO went viral. Now, her friends are working to bring her home. · This Week On ICE

• 0:00
  [music]
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to This Week On ICE for July 29, 2026.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Kelly Kimball.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Matt Kendrick.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: On Monday,
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: at least 300,000 Haitians in
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: the United States lost their Temporary Protected Status, or TPS,
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: and are now subject to deportation to one of the most dangerous countries on Earth.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: The Department of Homeland Security says it is already in the midst of an operation
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: to begin rounding up and expelling Haitians,
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: particularly targeting Ohio,
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: where the community was the subject of national scrutiny raised by President Trump
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: during his 2024 presidential campaign.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just Haitians.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Syrians also lost access to TPS on Monday.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: And people from over a dozen of the most unstable countries on the planet are in
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: the crosshairs for deportation, too.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Matt will dive into the historic consequences.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Then, from local police departments to airline safety authorities,
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: ICE is getting a lot of outside help these days.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Kelly will break down how cooperation across wide swaths
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: of government is driving record arrest levels for ICE,
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: including new surges at airports through the expanded cooperation of the TSA,
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: or Travel Security Administration.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: After the break,
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Matt sits down with Andy Ebelin,
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: whose close friend Irina Gorb,
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: a Ukrainian national,
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: was detained by ICE last week in an alarming incident caught on video
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: at San Francisco International Airport.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about the circumstances of her detention and give a firsthand perspective
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: on what it is like to try to get someone out of ICE custody.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Stick with us.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So Matt, TPS has ended for Haitians and Syrians.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us what we know so far?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: As you mentioned,
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: on July 27th, 2026,
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: the Supreme Court's mandate in the Mullen v.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Doe case that it had issued in June ended temporary protected status for Haitians
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: and Syrians.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: So basically about 300,000 Haitians in
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: About 6,000 Syrians have now lost their legal status and their right to work
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: in this country.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: They become eligible for arrest, eligible for deportation.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Over the last month since the Supreme Court made its ruling,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: people have been trying to get different visas to stay in the United States.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's a difficult road to hoe, though.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: You might be able to,
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: if you have U.S.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: citizen relatives,
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: get sponsorship,
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: but usually that requires you exiting the country and then returning on
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: the sponsorship.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: You might be able to get another form of work authorization or asylum,
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: as we know and have covered extensively on this case.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: The asylum process is completely broken under this administration,
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: and it's extremely difficult for anyone to get that status shifted over to them.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so what this has meant is that an entire community...
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is huge.
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  SPEAKER_01: This is larger than the town I grew up in, is now being...
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's right in the name.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Temporary protected status.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly that's true.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: No one is getting...
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: No one is giving them any sort of permanent and irrevocable status within the country.
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  SPEAKER_01: Again, temporary protected status, as we've discussed at length, requires vetting.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: It requires the government to be sure that this person is a threat to themselves
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: or other people.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: as we saw in the 2024 campaign,
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  SPEAKER_01: there was the whole just disgusting allegations from President Trump that Haitians
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: in Springfield, Ohio, were eating neighborhood cats and dogs.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just plainly racist.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's just racist vitriol coming from him.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so this amounts to a major victory for the Trump agenda and a really scary time
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  SPEAKER_01: for not only Haitians and Syrians,
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  SPEAKER_01: but anybody who holds a temporary protected status in the United States right now.
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  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so now that it has ended and there are Haitians and Syrians in this country,
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  SPEAKER_00: what is ICE telling Haitians and Syrians to do now that the status is gone?
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  SPEAKER_01: They are telling people to self-deport.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: They're basically telling them to take advantage of an ICE program
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: that would send them back to Haiti with,
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: $2,600 is the amount that ICE would give them, and usually flights of deportation.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: with basically no real opportunity to return to the United States and the life
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: that you had led here.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: When asked by CBS News whether ICE was actively carrying out operations to arrest
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: and deport Haitians who had lost temporary protective status,
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  SPEAKER_01: ICE said that they were not able to comment on ongoing operations,
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: which to me is a yes.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's like clearly there's an ongoing operation for them to not comment on.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really looking at Ohio.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is again, this is the first week that this has happened.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Over the next couple weeks,
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  SPEAKER_01: Kelly and I will be keeping a careful eye,
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: especially on Ohio,
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  SPEAKER_01: but also on my old neighborhood of Flatbush in New York City has
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: a large Haitian population down in Miami,
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: huge Haitian population,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: really in many of this country's major cities, Haitians make up a vibrant community.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that we could see all across the country operations targeting anybody
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: who,
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: looks Haitian or which is I mean,
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  SPEAKER_01: like Haitians are mostly black folks, almost entirely black folks.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't doubt that we will have many people of color caught up
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  SPEAKER_01: in this crackdown as Haitians as Haitians are expelled from the country.
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  SPEAKER_00: This is not the first time
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  SPEAKER_00: that we have seen nationals lose temporary protected status in the United States.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: We saw Venezuelans lose their TPS.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen Afghans lose their TPS.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And there are nationals from over a dozen other countries that have TPS status right now.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So can you explain to us what this court decision for Syrians and Haitians means
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: for TPS recipients in other countries?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: So TPS is a status that has to be sort of renewed regularly.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And usually that's sort of pro forma, right?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like Haiti is not any closer to stability today than it was five years ago
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  SPEAKER_01: or 10 years ago or honestly since the earthquake in 2020.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's been kind of downhill.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so in past administrations,
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: TPS status was renewed and folks can continue living their lives.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: But as the other countries that benefit from TPS status come up for renew,
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: this Supreme Court And my
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: suspicion is that the president will take advantage of
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: that and end TPS for essentially anybody who enjoys that status now.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: As you mentioned, already Venezuelans have lost it.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Salvadorans, Afghans, I believe, have already lost it as well.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Basically anybody who benefits it now stands to lose it.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that puts them in terrible position.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do you get out now?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: But essentially the long and the short of it is the way
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  SPEAKER_01: that this court decision was written means that nobody
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  SPEAKER_01: who enjoys TPS can sleep safely.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Matt, thank you for these important but obviously very grim updates.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we look forward to seeing and updating our listeners as news develops.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_01: Now, so Kelly, we are going to talk with Andy Eblen about eating at Gorb a little bit later.
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  SPEAKER_01: She was arrested at an airport.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: We also saw on-camera arrests by ICE at Denver Airport, at Las Vegas Airport.
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  SPEAKER_01: This is an anecdotally,
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: you and I are picking up chatter that this seems to be an ongoing trend
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  SPEAKER_01: that arrested airports are increasing.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: So...
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think there's actually an uptick of arrests by ICE at airports,
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  SPEAKER_01: or are we just seeing more of those arrests in airports on social media because it's
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  SPEAKER_01: a public place, people have their phones on them, et cetera, et cetera?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: The short answer is yes, we are seeing an uptick in arrests at airports.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is what we know so far.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: During the partial government shutdown earlier this year,
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: DHS sent ICE officers to assist TSA agents in international airports all over
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: the country and Reuters would eventually find out during an investigation
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: that ICE arrested 800 people during that time.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Per a New York Times report,
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: ICE has begun arresting foreign citizens with expired U.S. visas at airports.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's why we're seeing videos on social media of ICE arrests all over airports
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: across the country.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's because we're seeing an expansion of those arrests, basically.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: And these are according to documents that were leaked to The New York Times.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Per a report by KQED,
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: if we're looking just at the Bay Area airports,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: there have been several dozen travelers arrested in the San Francisco airport and
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: the Oakland airport, just to name a regional increase in numbers.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: To be fair, arrests are at their highest everywhere right now.
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  SPEAKER_00: As we mentioned in an episode a couple of weeks ago,
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  SPEAKER_00: ICE made about 10,000 arrests in just under a week.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we are going to keep seeing ICE officers arresting people,
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: as I mentioned then, everywhere all at once.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So how is this happening?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: How are they getting a hold of these folks and who's most at risk while they're traveling?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just pulling up some research that I found from the National Immigration Law Center.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And for those listening to this podcast who want a deep dive,
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: I highly recommend looking at the National Immigration Law Center
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: for more detailed answers.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: But right now, traveling can be risky for a number of different people that I'll explain later.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: But at least since last fall,
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: TSA has been sharing domestic passenger manifest lists and travel data with ICE.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So anything from The names of travelers, their photos, and their flight details.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then ICE takes that information and then they cross-reference it
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: with information they already have in their system.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: TSA and ICE fall under the Department of Homeland Security,
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: so there isn't necessarily a firewall preventing them from doing this.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the earliest reported case of ICE arresting somebody at an airport was as early
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: as November 2025.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: So ICE arrested a college student named Ana Lucia Lopez-Bellosa in Boston
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: at Boston's Logan Airport.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And TSA is going to continue to expand or to share this information routinely with them.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So the next question was, who is most at risk?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: The people that are the most at risk of being arrested by ICE
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: at airports include people with old deportation orders.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: So even if you don't even know if you have an old deportation order,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: which has been reported,
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: people have been arrested at airports with alleged deportation orders
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: that they weren't even aware of or deportation orders that were issued to them
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: when they were a child.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just never told to them by members of their family in order to check
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: if you have an old deportation order.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: If the government ever gave you paperwork with an alien registration number or an
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: A number,
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: you can check online using the Executive Office for Immigration Review,
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: EOIR, website or calling the EOIR hotline.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone with a legal status that the government revoked is also at risk.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: So as you mentioned, Matt,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: anyone with TPS status,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Haitians,
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Syrians, they are obviously at heightened risk of being arrested at airports.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone who entered the United States on parole is And that parole status has expired
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: or there was a government parole program that has ended.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: That includes CHNV,
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: the Cuban,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Haitian,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nicaraguan and Venezuelan process, the U4U, this is the Uniting for Ukraine program.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, very famously, the CBP-1 program.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And there's like several family reunification parole programs that have also been suspended.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if you were somebody that was part of that program,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: you are at heightened risk of being arrested at an airport.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last two is anyone with a pending application for immigration status.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you have applied for asylum,
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: even if you have a green card or other types of permanent protection,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: you are at risk of being arrested at an airport.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then anyone,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: with criminal history, even if the case, a criminal case against you was dropped.
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  SPEAKER_00: These are one among many, also DACA holders, green card holders.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: But for the full list and the full details of that, again,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I recommend people look into the National Immigration Law Center for further details
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: on it.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a staggeringly long list of people who could be subject to this.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really scary.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just airports, right?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: We are seeing a lot of different government agencies cooperating with ICE.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: What do you know about the extent of this cooperation and who's working with ICE,
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: who maybe isn't?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: So there are two major developments on this front.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So one is the Office of Refugee Resettlement,
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: also known as the ORR, has begun cooperating with ICE and sharing data with them.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is an office that is responsible for resettling refugees in the United States
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: that are fleeing war and persecution.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's an office that also helps house unaccompanied migrant children arriving at
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: the U.S.-Mexico border.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And This is kind of inside baseball, but for months the media has been reporting on this.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: What makes this really unique is that we now understand,
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: as of literally yesterday,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: the full scale of how much ORR, how much data they have shared with ICE.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: So a Reuters investigation found that since January of last year,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: ORR has shared more than 460,000 leads is what they described it leads with ICE
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: about unaccompanied children,
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: their parents, their relatives and their household members.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So even if you're not a relative or a parent,
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: if you live in a household with somebody who was an unaccompanied child who arrived
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: at the U.S.-Mexico border.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: ORR just shared your information with ICE.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: It leaves a massive swath of people,
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: hundreds of thousands of people, vulnerable to detention and deportation.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a massive scale.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is deeply consequential.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Reuters interviewed somebody named Jem Smyers.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: She served as deputy director of ORR during the Biden administration.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the way that Jen put it was the safeguards against sharing data
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: with ICE has been completely reversed.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this is pretty much a news story that underscores that deeply.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean,
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: just imagine you're doing a deeply humanitarian thing,
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: taking in a child who desperately needs care and attention.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And now the government is surveilling you and sharing information with agencies
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: that could get you in very serious trouble, as we've heard.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's extremely disturbing.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: There is one more development, unfortunately.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it isn't just ORR.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And this may be old news for audiences that have been listening to this podcast for
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: a few weeks now, but there is a program called 287G.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: It is a federal program that gives local police precincts and local police officers
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: the authority to arrest undocumented immigrants and people who are, quote,
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: suspected of being undocumented immigrants,
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: which is effectively low-hanging fruit for racial profiling.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: This 287G program is rapidly expanding.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: So your local police precinct,
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: your local police sheriff can be basically in cahoots with ICE
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: and helping ICE arrest people.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And here's a sense of how much it has expanded.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: ICE shares weekly updates on the MOUs or memorandums of agreements between ICE
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: and local law enforcement organizations.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: When Trump began his second term, there were about 135 of these memorandums of agreements.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: As of Monday,
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: ICE has signed 2,179 memorandums of agreement in programs covering 39 states
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: and two U.S. territories.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: This program has expanded exponentially,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: and there is a lot of incentive for police precincts and law enforcement officers
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: to join this program They're getting incentives to the tune of hundreds of thousands
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: of dollars in reimbursement.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So ICE is incentivizing them through helping them pay for overtime,
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: helping them pay for bonuses, helping them pay for technology, for vehicles.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'll name you a couple of examples of this.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So per report by NPR,
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: there was a police chief for Fort Walton Beach in the Florida Panhandle,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: and he reported to NPR that his department received About $150,000 from ICE for
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: a new vehicle and equipment.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: And also the state approved $300,000 for officer bonuses and AI software programs.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: NPR also noted that precincts are also using the money incentives from ICE
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: to buy AirPods,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: to buy new vehicles,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: to do all kinds of strange things that they're allegedly using for arrests of people
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: that are perceived to be undocumented.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't a lot of detail into how the money is being used because
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: the only reason we know of these examples is because
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: the police precincts volunteered that information to journalists.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise,
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: there is no documentation as to how different police precincts
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: and police departments are using the money provided by ICE
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: through this 287G program.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: So two big developments on those friends that we're going to be watching as news progresses.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: It just strikes me,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: before we move off this topic,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: it just strikes me how obscure and difficult it is to find out
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: about 287G programs reflects also the difficulty that you
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: and I have had finding out how much money is being put into third-party deportation
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: in Costa Rica and Eswatini,
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: other things we've talked about, when ICE is spending money.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Your money,
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: your taxpayer money,
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: it's just not clear how they're spending it,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: what they're spending it on, how much of it they're spending.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that level of lack of transparency is really alarming.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And for those that are interested in diving deeper into police departments
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: and how they're effectively acting in cahoots with ICE,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: we had a wonderful interview with Ava Sasani.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: She is an investigative journalist and editor at a news organization called The Trace.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: We interviewed her in our May 29th episode,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: and we're going to link that in our newsletter
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: that accompanies this podcast every week.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely listen to that.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, Kelly.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to take a quick break now.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And when we come back,
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: we're going to have our interview with Andy Eblen,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: whose close friend,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Anna Gorb, was detained in San Francisco International Airport earlier this week.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: He has been working night and day to try and secure her release.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And he was kind enough to give us some of his time to describe that experience.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: So stick around.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be right back.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, Kelly here.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: We founded This Week On ICE in February of this year,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: and in just a few short months,
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: we've been incredibly grateful for the response we've received so far.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Many of you are listening from across the U.S.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: and in countries like Mexico,
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Germany,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Colombia,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: and the U.K.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: We're so proud to inform you that our show has been awarded a seed grant by the Fund
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: for Investigative Journalism to help deepen our original reporting and hold power
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: to account as Trump's immigration crackdown continues.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: But we need your help.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: If this show has helped keep you informed and empowered in any way,
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: please consider sharing our show with a friend,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: giving us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify,
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: or even pledging financial support on Substack.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's your listenership that is the engine of our independent journalism.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hey folks,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to let you know before we dive into the interview with Andy Eblen
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: that unfortunately we had a few audio issues.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Our software did not play nice with his microphone and so I do apologize for some of
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: the rough quality of the audio you're about to hear.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've done my best to fix it with the limited software that I have access to
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: and I want to apologize to Andy and the entire team for
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: this technical failure
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: on our part.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: On Wednesday,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: plainclothes ICE officers
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: with no visible identifying markings accosted 38-year-old Irina Gorb
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: at San Francisco International Airport while she was returning from a trip
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: to Portland.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Alarming video of the detention taken
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: by local Richmond City Council member Doria Robinson shows officers pulling Gorb to
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: the ground while she begs bystanders to help and says the agents are choking her.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: We are now joined by Gorb's friend,
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Andy Eblen,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: whom she contacted after her detention to help her find legal counsel
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: and spread awareness of her situation.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: He's kind of the central axis of a group that is doing their best to help Edina.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Andy, for joining us amid what must be a horrible time for you.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having us.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very happy to talk to you and anybody that wants to chat with us.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think that video has been really central to getting that.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Attention on her case in a way that a lot of folks haven't gotten.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so too is the press.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, we're really happy to talk on that front.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I think she'd be the first one to want me to say during this.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to say it now and I'm sure I'll say it again.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: That her case is one part of a much, much larger situation.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we've had the good fortune to,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: she did what anybody in that situation needs to do,
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: which is be loud and get attention.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: She is a huge fixture in the community here.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: I knew she had a lot of friends and the support's been overwhelming.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: That said,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: what she would want me to say and what she has been working on while she has been
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: in this situation.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: She's one part of a bigger situation and one that is escalating,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: one that is having untruth after untruth after untruth told by the administration
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: and the people behind it, one that requires all of us and all of our attention.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're extremely happy to talk to you,
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: extremely happy to have the press engage with us in general.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I want to start with those untruths.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really glad you brought that up because we have seen in just the last two weeks,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: ICE kill two people who were not even the subject of warrants,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: then lie about the circumstances of their death.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: DHS is saying that Irina had been living in the United States for about 15 years
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: without proper visa status.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was wondering if she ever discussed her visa status with you and what you know
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: about her circumstances of arriving and staying in the United States.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: I do know her visa status was difficult.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know the exact details,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: and I'm not sure if the ICE statement is completely accurate,
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: but I do know it was a question mark.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: She came in on a state visa.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: I do know there was an overstay.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know the full duration of the overstay.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: I believe,
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: as I remember my details correctly,
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: around the time the overstay started,
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: her situation was that Ukraine was in the middle of Euromodon.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: her circumstance and the circumstance of God, I mean,
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: So many people,
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: they're coming from countries that are constantly in upended situations.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Ukraine is obviously at the moment in a very upended situation,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: but you know, so too folks coming from Venezuela, folks coming from El Salvador.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, these overstays one thing, trying to sort out basic humanities another.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: I know that our good friend,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Sarah Malik,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: who was my first call after Rina called me,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: had worked with her on filing for temporary protected status a couple of years back.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: During the outset of the war,
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: when I called Sarah about this,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: she'd say,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: her hand was trembling when I was working on that paperwork with her and
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: the papers were even next to her.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't imagine how she's doing now.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: This has always been a source of huge anxiety for her.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I told her for years, you know, you ever need a phone call on your phone call?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd also pressed her to do as long as she could on this,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: but it was such an anxiety inducer for her that she didn't want to talk through it.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: I do also know she was working through therapy on this,
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: so we put that TDS paperwork together for her.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what happened is that she had the paperwork and never submitted it
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: because it was a huge anxiety inducer.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know,
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: I imagine that the situation that occurred,
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: six months from now,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: eight months from now would have been through therapy for a bit longer.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: The chance you may have submitted that paperwork,
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: granted the administration is a lot less friendly at this point.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I am really glad that you mentioned that you'd come up with a plan with Irina.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to emphasize to listeners once again that this is
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: the number one thing you can do to protect yourself.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Have a first call, have a go bag ready.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And time and time again,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: as we've been covering this,
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: that seems to make the difference between getting some attention to your detention
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: and disappearing into the system.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I want to continue on the lies of the administration.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: They have said continuously that they're targeting the quote-unquote worst of
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: the worst, quote, rapists, murderers, etc.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Would you tell me, do you think Irina is one of the worst of the worst?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: What was she like?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: How did you come to know her?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: She calls me,
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: tells me, hey,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: please do everything you can to help work on the legal representation, anything.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course, anything you need.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Her next requests are,
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: please call Josh, who runs the cafe I work at, and let him know that I won't be in.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Let my friend know that I won't be able to watch her cat.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Please let my other friend know in Los Angeles that I won't be able to watch her cat
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: in a couple weeks.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: And please let my neighbor know that I would love that she would be able
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: to water my plants every two days.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: She called at one point while I was sitting next to Josh,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: who runs the cafe, and was like, would you be willing to talk to Josh?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: She said she was sorry for letting Josh down.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, we have had some people say to us how important she is to them.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: And just to your point, we have a friend of the show named Austin Kocher.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: He's a very prominent geographer,
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: and he has been tracking the criminal records of people detained by ICE
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: when those numbers are released.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: The overwhelming majority have disappeared.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: No criminal record whatsoever when they're detained by ICE.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like EDNF falls into that, into that category as well.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's,
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: it's a lie you tell to help people hold,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: you know, swallow the pill of fascism, right?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that is what we are actively moving toward.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've said many people in the process of how we're trying to move
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: through this, our goal is getting her the dignity and safety for now.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then we'll work on this case later.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: But there are processing procedures for this.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: We have the longer reason for how much ever longer we have it.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know,
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: they can say whatever they want, which will remain in ICE detention until whatever.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: you know, we have laws.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: There is a way that this is supposed to run.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so they, you know, have flouted those to every possible attempt.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: But they still exist.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: They're still in the book.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we've seen courts continually attempt to hold the administration accountable
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: to their violation of law.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: at the time of this recording,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Idina is, I believe, in the California City Detention Facility.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's incredibly beneficial that they were able to find a prison that existed in
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: the middle of the desert after trying to disappear cults.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And just to give folks context,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: because California is so big that sometimes if you don't live there,
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: it's difficult to understand how big.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's roughly the same distance from San Francisco as like South Carolina is from
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: where I'm sitting right here in DC.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: It is a long way away.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: What do you know about her well-being?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: So her initial call from Stockton, she sounded shaken.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: She described herself as shocked, but she sounded all right.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: She mentioned she was able to also be in contact with her parents.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And she said they were nice and they let me do that, even though it's not policy.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if that's true or not.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: But she said they were at least, you know, plight to her in that process.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: She thought she'd be able to be released on an ankle monitor.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: But she said they were going to transfer to Cal City.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so there was a long period of time where we were unable to locate her.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: I later learned kind of midway through the day before we had found her that
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: the office of Scott Wiener, the state senator over here, was able to
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: raise her.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so we at least knew that she was,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: you know, contactable.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: When we talked to her at 530, that was a hard call.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: She was, you know, pretty audibly shaken and in a pretty substantial amount of distress.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: We let her know she had about a team of 15 of us doing everything we could for her.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so...
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: We got at that point, very importantly, her alien number.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: As far as how she's doing at this point, she's sleeping, she had to eat in.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: She has a concern that we have run through numerous legal counsels
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: and numerous channels about medically necessary iron supplements for her.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: She is, you know, pretty well anemic effectively as far as I understand.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: So they're pretty critical.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: She's had difficulty getting them.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: We are doing everything we can to make sure that's the case.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then past that,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: and then just again to speak to who she is and her character,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: in a lot of the calls I've had with her since,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: she said, hey,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: I've been talking to a lot of the other detainees here,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: and I want to let you know that they've told me that they were also detained
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: in airports.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: She wanted me to make sure I shared that as far as I could have.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you brought that up because that's actually an element
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: that we've been trying to report out as well.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: We can't find official stated policy,
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: but Edina is not the only person who has been detained,
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: like you said, at an airport.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: My last question for you really is how can people help?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want people to know about the situation?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Karina herself would want me to keep the focus on the bigger picture here.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: I will say that we've got a GoFundMe for her, and I'll make that available to you.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: But we are past our goal for that.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so what we're aiming to do is use the GoFundMe to signal boost cases
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: that have gotten less attention.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: We're focused on getting our friend up,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: but we are also focused on making sure this happens to as few additional people
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: as possible.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so anything we can do to stop that, Past that, I think you made a good point earlier.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: If you've got friends that you're worried about,
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: let them know that you can be their point of contact.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: If you are their point of contact, important things to know.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: If they are given an alien number,
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: you need to know that as quickly as possible.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: You need to know their full name.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: You need to know their birth date.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: As much information as you have about them as you can will be incredibly helpful.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: If you have friends in this situation,
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: you need to tell them to do what we have seen so many people do,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: what you're gonna do.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Be loud.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Draw attention.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: There have been many cases of people who have been detained and have been still
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: in situations unfindable.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so going loud quickly helps.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: If you see somebody in this kind of situation, record, post, go to the news.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: As we always say on this podcast, you have to look out for your neighbors.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Andy, thank you so much.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: This must be an incredibly emotionally difficult week for you.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we appreciate so much you making the time.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Andy, for sharing your experience.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we hope your friends can bring Irina back home safely.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Listeners,
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: we will link Irina's GoFundMe in our weekly Substack newsletter
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: that accompanies our podcast.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do take a look at it.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's it for us this week.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: On your way out, please follow us on social media.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: We are This Week On ICE on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: As always, you can reach us at thisweekonice at gmail.com.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Send in your questions, your comments, anything that you want us to know about.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: We would love to Thank you for sticking with us, spreading the show.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: It means a lot to us.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be back next Wednesday, and in the meantime, stay safe and look out for your neighbors.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next time.