Latest / Pharmacy Podcast Network / More Patients, Same Pharmacists: Preparing Independent Pharmacy for the Next Era of MTM | Outcomes: Insights Beyond the Counter

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More Patients, Same Pharmacists: Preparing Independent Pharmacy for the Next Era of MTM | Outcomes: Insights Beyond the Counter · Pharmacy Podcast Network

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the global network of podcasters dedicated
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: to the pharmacy profession.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Pharmacy Podcast Network.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Outcomes, insights beyond the counter. My name is Todd.
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: You're a proud founder of the nation's largest podcast network
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: and subject matter expertise from my favorite providers, our pharmacists,
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: as well as people out there who are running specialty
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: and long-term care and community pharmacies. We are so excited
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: to be working with Outcomes, digging in to the insights
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: beyond the counter. Today's episode, More Patients, Same pharmacists were
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: preparing for independent pharmacy for the next era of medication
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: therapy management. Up next on Insights Beyond the Counter. Hey,
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: welcome to Insights Beyond the Counter. I want to bring
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: in our guest. Excited to have you here. Two nerds,
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: two nerds like me from the world of pharmacy technology,
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: because that's my roots. Ross Frey and John Grice, welcome
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: to the show.
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: Good to see you.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: If you weren't both good looking, I wouldn't have said nerds,
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: but good looking nerds didn't suffer like the bad looking
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: nerds did.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: And I grew into my look.
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: So I remember the big head and I needed to
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: grow into my head.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: And needed some style. I still need style.
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: My wife always makes fun of me, but we definitely
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: were three nerds here talking about pharmacy technology.
• 1:51
  Speaker 5: That's right. Yeah, I'm in for it.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: John, you and I have done these shows before.
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  Speaker 4: Lots has changed since you were first on and back
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: to the network.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: I kind of want to open up with you.
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: And that is, you know, MTM, just like the state
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: of the nation of pharmacy, there's plate tectonics happening.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: This market's changing.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: We are seeing drastic changes in how things are getting
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: paid for and what is being paid for. And I
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: think as MTM evolves and the pharmacies are preparing for
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: increased demand and shifts and how many pharmacists are on
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: staff for what and what disease states are being managed,
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: what are they communicating to their communities?
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: What are they communicating to physicians?
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: So what does success look like from both the technology
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: side and the operation side at this point?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, man, they got to work well together.
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  Speaker 6: You know, Todd, I went back to our conversation a
• 2:52
  Speaker 6: year ago We met out at ThoughtSpot and did one
• 2:55
  Speaker 6: out there. And man, it was interesting to say, I
• 3:00
  Speaker 6: know I believed it then, the things we talked about,
• 3:03
  Speaker 6: the changes that were coming and the new developments that
• 3:06
  Speaker 6: Outcomes was making. But we could go back, re-listen to that,
• 3:10
  Speaker 6: and then just kind of like highlight the different things
• 3:13
  Speaker 6: that have come out of Outcomes in the last 12
• 3:15
  Speaker 6: months since that podcast and how that points forward to 2027.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 3:21
  Speaker 6: Tectonics is a great way to describe it. The shifts
• 3:23
  Speaker 6: that are happening in some ways are settling out of COVID,
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: but are shifting in a new way. And it's almost
• 3:31
  Speaker 6: like a fresh beginning that pharmacy is just heading into.
• 3:34
  Speaker 6: It's pretty exciting. So I think your question was around
• 3:38
  Speaker 6: the technology, the success. I think you've got to, in
• 3:41
  Speaker 6: a pharmacy, have your technology dialed in for efficiency and
• 3:44
  Speaker 6: then have your strategy really solid on clinical matters. And
• 3:49
  Speaker 6: here's how I'm going to attack it. And if I
• 3:52
  Speaker 6: don't have one, here's how I'm going.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: To build it.
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  Speaker 6: Or if I've already got it or got a framework
• 3:56
  Speaker 6: of clinical operations, clinical services going, here's how I'm just
• 4:00
  Speaker 6: going to continue to level up every year. That would
• 4:03
  Speaker 6: be my short snippet on, yeah, what success is going
• 4:07
  Speaker 6: to look like as every pharmacy goes into 27.
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  Speaker 4: Ross, same question about operations, about the technology side supporting
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: the new age. pharmacy, where pharmacists are being much more hands-on,
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  Speaker 4: clinical to the disease state, clinical to the treatment management.
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: You have 14 years, just bravo to you for the
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: technology experience you have, out outcomes and the vestedness in
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: your career.
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  Speaker 3: But give us your insights. What do you think?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I know, Todd, as we're kind of preparing
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: for today's conversation, we talked about how in just the
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: 14 years I've been in outcomes, I've been able to
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: see submission of a clinical service to outcomes go from
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: sending a fax document to outcomes and inputting that into
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  Speaker 1: a system and then the release of a platform enabling
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: that documentation and then seeing that platform continue to evolve
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  Speaker 1: new services, new ways to continue to engage pharmacies into
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: clinical services and the care that that can really create
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: within that community pharmacy. And I think to John's point,
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  Speaker 1: it comes back to the technology needs to complement and enhance.
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: The workflow and the work of the pharmacy.
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  Speaker 1: We kind of joked at the beginning here of kind
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: of that workflow term being kind of one of those
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  Speaker 1: fun phrases that's been thrown around for.
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  Speaker 5: Ages and ages.
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  Speaker 1: But I do think that there is a lot of
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  Speaker 1: grit to that as well, because As you go out
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: and you sit in pharmacy and you are in that space,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: you can tell that if the technology is not meeting
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: you where you are, the technology is not going to work.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: And so I think that's been the key driver for us,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: for sure, at outcomes of, you know, continually just driving
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: towards building technology that meets people where they are in
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: their community.
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  Speaker 5: We're in a really unique position.
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  Speaker 1: Where our platform is used by the local pharmacy as
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: well as large national chain. It doesn't matter the PSAO.
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  Speaker 1: It really doesn't matter where you're coming from. Our technology
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: is sitting back there allowing for clinical services.
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  Speaker 5: To be documented.
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  Speaker 1: And because of that, we got a lot of different
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: users that are coming in with different expectations of how
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: things are expected to operate and flow and how that
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: works into their own systems. So that brings a lot
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  Speaker 1: of fun challenges for us to really help support the
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: masses with the 60,000 pharmacists that are coming into our platform, 120,000
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: monthly active users coming into our platform. That's a lot
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: of folks that are coming in with different expectations of how, again,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: to use that term workflow, but how that fits into
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: that puzzle piece of what things look like behind the
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: counter in the pharmacy.
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  Speaker 4: So I'm thinking, you know, you design this intelligence system,
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: you continue to see it evolve based on what's necessary,
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: based on how payment systems are changing, based on where
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: we know pharmacists expertise and understanding and knowledge could actually
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: make some money beyond a dispensing fee. So let's talk
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: about that. John, I'm going to ask you, what is
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: the change? What is that change that needs to happen
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  Speaker 4: in today's like MTM environment? that an independent community pharmacy
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  Speaker 4: owner really needs to understand?
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  Speaker 3: Hmm.
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  Speaker 2: What is the one change?
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  Speaker 6: Yeah. Uh, probably in mindset, you know, because there's so
• 7:37
  Speaker 6: many different ways I could take that question to Ross's point,
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  Speaker 6: there are 60,000 pharmacies out there. Now, maybe not every
• 7:44
  Speaker 6: chain is uniquely different from its counterpart. Um, you know,
• 7:49
  Speaker 6: other chain down the road, but every independent is different. And, uh, Man,
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: so to do or to kind of put an underline
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: on what he said, they have in the clinical product
• 8:02
  Speaker 6: workspace been able to make a product that is usable
• 8:06
  Speaker 6: by very big and by independents and.
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  Speaker 2: See success at all different levels.
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  Speaker 6: So I would say for the folks who are thinking that, well,
• 8:17
  Speaker 6: that's something that only other pharmacists do or that's not
• 8:21
  Speaker 6: something we do here. They got to change their mindset,
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: maybe start talking to a different group of peers. I
• 8:28
  Speaker 6: know that if you're in a circle that sort of
• 8:31
  Speaker 6: reinforces that, you just really believe that, that, well, now
• 8:34
  Speaker 6: we're not really doing that work. But I don't think
• 8:38
  Speaker 6: that can continue going forward. I think this is going
• 8:41
  Speaker 6: to be a continually growing bucket of revenue. And right
• 8:45
  Speaker 6: now we're seeing the unengaged just stay unengaged and the
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  Speaker 6: ones that are engaged just keep.
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  Speaker 2: Growing in it.
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  Speaker 6: And so for every pharmacist who's maybe not quite crossed
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  Speaker 6: that mindset, this is like the immunizations of 20 years ago,
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: where there.
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  Speaker 2: Were a few that held out and held out for
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  Speaker 2: a while.
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  Speaker 6: But eventually it was not going to slow down.
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  Speaker 2: It was only going to keep expanding.
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  Speaker 6: So it's probably a mindset thing if I've got to
• 9:13
  Speaker 6: go Sorry that that's sort of broad, maybe 50,000 foot level,
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  Speaker 6: not as tactical as I'd love to be able to be.
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  Speaker 2: But it really is.
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  Speaker 6: We're talking about a diverse group of people, a whole
• 9:23
  Speaker 6: bunch of different ways to run pharmacy. And yet there
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  Speaker 6: is that one unifying thing that's got to change.
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  Speaker 3: Mindset, the leadership.
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  Speaker 4: So we're talking about the top of the food chain
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: within your pharmacy, the owners, the executive board. And those
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  Speaker 4: are literally the people that are going to help to
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  Speaker 4: change the mindset of not only management, but more importantly,
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  Speaker 4: your work team, your team that is expected to manage workflow.
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  Speaker 4: And that workflow, Ross and I, before we started recording,
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: talking about getting, we're starting to be the old guys
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  Speaker 4: and workflow was like a buzzword from, I don't know,
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  Speaker 4: 2020 or 2012 to maybe 2018. And now it is
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: what it is, but workflow has to change. So mindset,
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: starting with mindset, but now workflows have to change. We
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: have to be thinking of phone call changes, getting away
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: from the dreaded fax machine, fragmented systems and disconnected information sources,
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: staffing uncertainty about which patient intervention should be prioritized. I mean,
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: there's this whole kind of head scratcher that outcomes is
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: standing in the background saying, we're ready for this. Like,
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: we've already done this. John, actually, John or Ross, really. Ross, actually,
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: it should be for Ross. you mentioned a sector of
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: pharmacy and you're like, hey, we have large chain organizations,
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: we have individual pharmacies, specialty, long-term care pharmacy. So where
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: is medication therapy management the hottest right now? Which sector
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: of pharmacy are you seeing some of the best success stories?
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: I'm going to take that question, Todd, and I'm going
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: to kind of augmented.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: A little bit into where I feel like there is
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  Speaker 1: the greatest opportunity as I look ahead to 2027.
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  Speaker 5: And so kind of to paint.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: That picture for you, Todd, as we look into 2027,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: we've kind of been dancing around it a little bit here,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: but to kind of hit the nail on the head,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: as we move into 2027, we're going to see a
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: dramatic increase in the number of CMR opportunities and the
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: number of CMRs that need to get completed in the
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: outcomes platform. We're talking about a three to four X increase.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: So millions more CMRs. And of course, that means the
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: revenue that we know pharmacies are in dire need of
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: coming from these clinical services. So at Outcomes, we've been
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: really laser focused on how do we get after those
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: things that we've time and time again heard from pharmacies
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: as some of those barriers to really getting in deep,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: like John was describing, of creating that workflow that allows
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: them to take MTM and just clinical service provision in
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: the pharmacy to that next level. And not surprisingly, those
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: barriers are generally, I don't have the time or I
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: don't have enough opportunity, right? The pie isn't big enough
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: for me to make this into something that really matters
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: in my pharmacy. And let me tell you, the first
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: part about time You hit on earlier, we've got amazing
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: new efficiencies that we're deploying into our platform this year
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: that are going to bring the time down dramatically for
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: documenting and completing CMRs. And then for that pie, like
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: I just said, the pie is getting bigger next year.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: So not only is the time barrier going to be
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: going away, but the opportunity barrier is going to be
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: going away as well. And back to your original question, Todd,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: on where is that opportunity and what part of the
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: pharmacy landscape has that opportunity? It's your local community independent
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: pharmacy that really has that huge opportunity to step up
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: and show that they.
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: Can be the ones to lead the way.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: So to John's point on the immunization wave of 20
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: years ago and seeing people who jumped.
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: In first and who took maybe a longer time.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: To adopt and get into that space. The MTM space
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: right now, it's a huge opportunity for independent local pharmacies
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: to show up, to show that they have those local
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: relationships that really change that healthcare experience for the patient
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day. I'll tell you really quick,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I've got younger kiddos, one of which has long-term disability,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: just went through a heart surgery two years ago, so
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of complex medical needs. And it's your local
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: pharmacist that at the end of the day is the
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: person that can help you to navigate all the complex
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: medications that come with health care. And so it's a
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: really amazing and exciting time. I get really passionate about
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: what I think we can see next year with all
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: those opportunities and those increased efficiencies coming into play.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: I think of the opportunity from what you're saying almost
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: as the ground level opportunity the comprehensive medication review, setting
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: the stage, and now having a patient for life who
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: might be experiencing something with their disease state, they're going
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: to need your assistance for the remainder of their time.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: They got eight medications that they're juggling. They're not quite sure.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: No one's really taken time to check up on them.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: The world of telehealth is coming full force now. Remote
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: patient monitoring is full force now. Long-term care pharmacy at
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: home is kind of the buzzword today that we're going
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: to continue to see expanding.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: You guys are ready for it. So, John, let's talk
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: about that.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: Let's talk about expanding the role, the workflow, some of
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: the things that Outcomes has experienced and prepared for. Talk
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: to us a little bit about inside the pharmacy, what's happening.
• 15:09
  Speaker 6: Sure. You know, inside the pharmacy, I think the way
• 15:11
  Speaker 6: we have developed automated data entry is a huge thing
• 15:16
  Speaker 6: towards prepping for 27. Our team has gone through and
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: just me talking about it feels like I need to
• 15:23
  Speaker 6: be given all the credit to this other group of folks,
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: but they have built a way that our system automates
• 15:29
  Speaker 6: data entry on over 90% of the scripts. You know,
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: every e-script that's coming in. There's very few exceptions that
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: can't be automated and all the rest are going right
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: from receipt into being a billable claim. That's amazing. That
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: cuts down so much tech time of putting in the
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: script manually. So automating data entry is a big piece
• 15:51
  Speaker 6: of making the pharmacy efficient enough to now take that
• 15:54
  Speaker 6: excuse away. I think one of the questions that I
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: would pose to independent pharmacists is what's on your second monitor?
• 16:01
  Speaker 6: Everybody's usually got two monitors up. One's running their pharmacy system,
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: and the complaint is, well, it's cumbersome to move out
• 16:10
  Speaker 6: of that and into a website to do more work.
• 16:13
  Speaker 6: But they've probably got something up, and it might be
• 16:15
  Speaker 6: email or something else. But if you're not managing the PMS,
• 16:20
  Speaker 6: your script flow, as well as your clinical stuff, that's
• 16:25
  Speaker 6: where now we're efficient enough to be able to do that.
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: So anyways, back to the automated data entry. I just
• 16:30
  Speaker 6: can't highlight that enough as really saving time in the pharmacy.
• 16:35
  Speaker 6: And if our folks don't have it turned on yet,
• 16:38
  Speaker 6: at least outcome system, that's what we've done to be
• 16:43
  Speaker 6: able to enable our pharmacies to really get that time back.
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: But it's not just in the dispensing process where efficiency
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: is coming. I want to kick this back over to Ross,
• 16:53
  Speaker 6: if you don't mind. Ross, tell them about the CMR process,
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: how the MTM intelligence is actually faster.
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: No, thanks, John.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, I totally agree with what you're sharing on
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: automated data entry. That is a huge jump forward in
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: just helping to unlock additional time.
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: In the pharmacy.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Like I was saying, you know, we keep hearing that
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: as we talk about clinical service opportunity. So a great,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: great call out there. Yeah, when it comes to comprehensive
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: medication reviews in an MTM program, we know from kind
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: of being the market leader in comprehensive medication reviews that
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: A CMR typically today looks like a whole lot of
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: data curation, getting the data ready, preparing to talk with
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: the patient or the caregiver for that comprehensive medication review.
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: And that shouldn't be the case.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: We really want to help support pharmacists and pharmacy staff
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: to not need to be the data curators, the archivist
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: of all of that information, but instead lead with their
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: clinical expertise. So with our MTM intelligence capabilities that we
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: will be releasing into the comprehensive medication review workflow in
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: the outcomes platform here in 2026, those capabilities are going
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: to help to automatically pre-fill content with inferred medication directions,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: inferred medication conditions, help to auto sort and prioritize active
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: versus non-active medications and help to even infer potential action
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: items that the patient can be taking and follow up
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: to that comprehensive medication review. So really trying to help
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: support that conversation, help the, again, the pharmacist to not
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: feel like they open up a comprehensive medication review and
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: they just opened up a blank file folder and now
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: they need to fill that in with all the patient's data.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: We really want to get past that and allow pharmacists to, again,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: step up to the plate, ready to go to hit
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: that home run with that CMR.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: All right, let's talk about measurement of success. We all
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: love data. We want to be able to take what
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: we've done and be able to track, be able to improve,
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: be able to make some adjustments. The completed intervention, the
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: patient engagement, how well the patients are understanding, medication adherence,
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: quality measurement performance, even staff efficiency. Talk to us about
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: measuring MTM success.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've spent a lot of time on this over
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: my years at Outcomes, of course, Todd, and specifically as
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: we think about comprehensive medication reviews, a lot of that,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: like I said, comes down to how much total time
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: does it take to complete that comprehensive medication review for
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the patient, not just in that, like I said, the
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: patient conversation itself, but the full journey, the total time.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: And then even when you get into that journey, we
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: get down and talk about how many clicks does it
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: take you to get from start to finish, right? We
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: want to get really gritty and tactile in that full
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: process to make sure that, again, we're sitting down and
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: we're thinking through what it means to embed these workflows
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: into the practice behind that counter in the pharmacy. Because
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: as we said earlier on, if you're not thinking through
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: that methodology, if you're not thinking through that lens, it's
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: not going to fly.
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: It's not going to fit.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: So you really need to take that full breadth view,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: not just thinking about one aspect, but thinking about how
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: much time does it take?
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: Where am I creating.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: U-turns or process loops that are not necessary or successful.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: So that's where we've really come in and we've tried
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: to deploy features here with our MTM Intelligence Suite that
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: help to bring in that curated data, like I said,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: to support and take away all of that burden of documentation.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: And then alongside of that, we're also releasing a documentation
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: quality review.
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: So what we're.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Doing is we're not only infusing data to help to support,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: to bring you and that data to full readiness state
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: as you're going in and completing that CMR, but then
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: as you're documenting and completing the CMR, we're also automating
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: and bringing forward to you all sorts of information that
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: helps you to understand.
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: What's the quality of the data you've just documented.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Because the last thing we also want you to do
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: is go through that and recognize that, hey, what I've documented,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: there's an opportunity for me to make that even of
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: a higher quality. So we really want to help to
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: bring forward as much insight and information as possible, but do.
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: It in a way that we're aware of.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: And recognizing things like notification fatigue and presenting the user
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: with the right information at the right time. We have
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: a phenomenal user experience team here at Outcomes that does
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: amazing work to sit with pharmacists as they're in our
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: platform and hands-on, seeing how they're interacting. And man, is
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: it fun to be able to sit with that team
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: and sit with pharmacists and do those shadowing opportunities to
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: really get your feet planted into that experience? Because if
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: you're not doing that, you're not participating in the exercise
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: that is supporting pharmacy.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Todd, that's a big thing. I'm serious. As a pharmacist
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: who's used the system before, knowing how.
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: Ross and the team, the UX team he's talking about,
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: can watch basically the path of clicks that a pharmacist
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: is taking through the system as they do a CMR
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: and then break down, all right, which clicks were redundant
• 22:42
  Speaker 6: or where did they get stuck most? Or like he
• 22:45
  Speaker 6: was saying, like at moments, we just need to supply
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: some extra information for them.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 22:52
  Speaker 6: Like, okay, as a pharmacist, my brain goes from having
• 22:58
  Speaker 6: information presented to me You know, two, three hundred times
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: a day and all I've got to do is verify
• 23:03
  Speaker 6: it to then changing over to the other side of
• 23:05
  Speaker 6: my brain and going, oh, I have to not only think,
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: all right, that's cool. And I'm glad I get to think,
• 23:11
  Speaker 6: but I've got to generate the text now, whereas.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: It used to be.
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: 300 times a day, text is coming to me to
• 23:18
  Speaker 6: double check. So they've been able to kind of bring
• 23:22
  Speaker 6: the two halves of the pharmacist's brain together and go, okay, well,
• 23:25
  Speaker 6: if that's how you're used to thinking, and this is
• 23:27
  Speaker 6: the way that clicks seem the most logical in order
• 23:30
  Speaker 6: for your process to flow better, we're going to design
• 23:33
  Speaker 6: it that way. We're going to put the information that
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: you might want right over here.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: It's amazing. I was impressed by it.
• 23:40
  Speaker 6: I got a glimpse of how they are really getting
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: inside and making sure that it works with a pharmacist's mind.
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: All right. So I'm listening. I'm a pharmacy owner. Maybe
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: I'm on the knife's edge where I really want to
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: do something to prepare for 2027 to come out with
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: an MTM program that's tied into my pharmacy management system.
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: It's definitely getting billed correctly. My workflow has been designed.
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: My staff, my pharmacy technicians, everybody's on the same page, prepared,
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: ready to go. Let's talk about real quick, because I
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: want to hear from both of you on this, educating
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: the patient base, educating the community that this is even
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: available to them because of how this could really help
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: their ongoing health, assuring that they're taking medication, assuring that
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: they understand their medication.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: It's that engagement. It's bringing... It's bringing.
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: Patients back to how close they were with their pharmacist 20,
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: 30 years ago. And I think it's returning to that
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: intimacy of being a consultative pharmacist. So talk to us
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: about that communication between the pharmacist and the patient.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll jump on it first here, John. Thanks for
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: the question, Todd. Yeah, I think that's a good way
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: that you kind of frame that question in terms of
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the timeline around that question too, and just the history
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: of what pharmacy has looked like and how I think
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: we've used the term so far of just kind of
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: this like tectonic shift that's happening in pharmacy, especially with
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: this opportunity that MTM and CMRs presents in 2027, where
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: it does allow for that consultative pharmacist role to really
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: come back to the surface and really shine within your
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: local pharmacy. Um, it's, it's something that we know as
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: outcomes as we've sat there and worked with pharmacies across
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: the country to support them to become best in class pharmacies,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: documenting MTM and CMR and comprehensive medication review services is
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: that it's, it's generally, it's not something that's going to
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: happen overnight.
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: Let's be clear.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: It's something that is a shift in what a pharmacy
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: looks like, but we've got the best practices here to
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: help you through that shift. Um, I will say, you know,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: my history at Outcomes, I started on our help desk fielding.
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: Calls from our pharmacies. So I will tell you right now,
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: we have.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: The best help desk out there to help you with
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: our platform and with supporting you in your questions that
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: you have. As you're navigating our platform, we really want
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: to be there with you and alongside of you as
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: you're going through this journey of helping your patients with
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: clinical services that are available on our platform. So it's
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: something that I'm really passionate about. And again, to the
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: point John was making around how we're studying and looking
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: at and aware of how users in our platform are
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: documenting and working, we're also very aware of just the
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: feedback and the information we're gathering from things like our
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: help desk. What are folks calling in about? What are
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: the themes that we're hearing from those conversations? and really
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: making sure that we're hitting on those opportunities to continue
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: to meet the pharmacist and our users where they are.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: So I think we've hit on that in many ways,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: talking about getting the right data into the right place
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: at the right time. There's a lot of different ways
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: that you can describe and talk about that. But definitely,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: it's not a shift that happens overnight, but it's an
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: opportunity for you to really, to John's earlier point, kind
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: of take up the torch with this great opportunity in
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: front of us and lead that charge towards becoming that
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: clinical center of excellence as a pharmacy in your local community.
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: Clinical Center of Excellence. That is amazing terminology that could
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: really bring a lot of attention from your community if
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: you're communicating that, if you're putting that out on your
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: Facebook or you're putting that in your literature or something
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: that you're able to get in front of someone that's
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: taking care of their mother or someone that's taking care
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: of their great aunt or their dad and letting them know, hey,
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of confusion stuff. Your dad is breaking
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: tablets in half. He doesn't exactly sure what to be taking.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: Adherence issues here, something happening there. And then ultimately that
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: communication to the patient, the description, the education, and then
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: kicking all of that back to say to the physician
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: and the primary care, hey, we got it figured out.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: We got it under control. Look what we did. Look
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: what we implemented. Here's how we're helping. to move forward
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: in the treatment that you kind of, as the quarterback,
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: you know, put out there. And that would be, if
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: I'm the physician, I'm relieved that there's a pharmacy out
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: there prepared for it, has invested in infrastructure. So there's
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: multiple stories as an independent community pharmacy owner, you have
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: multiple stories to be telling. You have the story to
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: tell internally to your staff and get them ready. You
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: have the story to tell the public in your community
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: who doesn't know that you're doing this and they would
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: love to take advantage of it, you have to tell
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: the story to the physician and you definitely have to
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: tell the story to the payer because the payer wants
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: to know that you're prepared for this as well. So John,
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: in wrapping up, let's talk about that last one. Talk
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: to me about the payer environment in medication therapy management.
• 29:22
  Speaker 6: Man, the payer environment is one where I think, I
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: don't think as a pharmacist, I thought about my customer
• 29:30
  Speaker 6: the right way.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: I thought about the.
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: Number of patients walking in the door, but I wasn't
• 29:35
  Speaker 6: thinking about the the insurance plan behind them. And so,
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: you know, the best analogy I can think of as
• 29:41
  Speaker 6: we go into 2027 is all right. If I knew
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: that I was going to have three times the amount
• 29:45
  Speaker 6: of scripts walking in my door, in 2027, I would
• 29:49
  Speaker 6: get ready. I would extend the counter. I would add
• 29:52
  Speaker 6: an extra terminal, a whole nother bin of vials. I'd
• 29:57
  Speaker 6: be prepped for better volume of script count going across counter, right? Well,
• 30:03
  Speaker 6: if I wasn't, what would happen? Well, I'd still take
• 30:06
  Speaker 6: care of the same amount of people I did last
• 30:07
  Speaker 6: year and all the rest would be a little frustrated
• 30:10
  Speaker 6: and take that script.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: And leave and go down the road.
• 30:13
  Speaker 6: And I would Just probably kicked myself for having missed
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: that big opportunity.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: The same thing's happening. Our customers, at least in this
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: sense and in your question, our payers are coming to
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: us with three times the volume that they've had before saying, okay,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: we need you. Can you do this?
• 30:31
  Speaker 6: And some of us are stepping up and it's going
• 30:33
  Speaker 6: to be cool and it's going to be fun and
• 30:35
  Speaker 6: they're going to be ready for it and they're going
• 30:36
  Speaker 6: to take full advantage.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: And then there's others who are going, I don't know.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: We'll see.
• 30:39
  Speaker 6: And I'm just going to wait until it gets here.
• 30:42
  Speaker 6: And then they'll maybe do the same amount they did
• 30:44
  Speaker 6: the year before and wonder, all right, why am I
• 30:48
  Speaker 6: not keeping up with the rest of my peers? The
• 30:51
  Speaker 6: ones that did prepare that saw that big influx of,
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: in my example, scripts walking in the door. It's just
• 30:57
  Speaker 6: volume of business coming into you. Are you preparing for it?
• 31:01
  Speaker 6: So back to Ross's, the storyteller, the pharmacy has to
• 31:05
  Speaker 6: be the storyteller on this one. You know, it's not
• 31:07
  Speaker 6: for outcomes to go market to the public. People don't
• 31:10
  Speaker 6: know outcomes name and that's okay. The customers, the patients,
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: they don't need to know our name. Everybody wants them
• 31:18
  Speaker 6: to know the pharmacy's name. And so it's really up
• 31:21
  Speaker 6: to them. I'd love to be able to drive down
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: the road and see in front of pharmacies, not just
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: flu shot, COVID shot here, but get your CMR here.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Don't know what that is? Stop in and ask.
• 31:33
  Speaker 6: Those sorts of little message board readers that get people going, yeah,
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: what is a comprehensive med review?
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Stop in.
• 31:40
  Speaker 6: Ask. You're probably eligible. Let's sit down and talk about it.
• 31:44
  Speaker 6: Because if our pharmacists aren't the ones telling the story,
• 31:48
  Speaker 6: there's still the customer, the payer on the backside going,
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: I got to get these done somewhere. And so they
• 31:54
  Speaker 6: will get filled. And I hope as many pharmacies as
• 31:57
  Speaker 6: can see it coming, take advantage of it.
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: Pharmacy owners, pharmacy operators, management teams out there, the expansion
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: of nutraceuticals and grocery stores getting involved in small microchains.
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: You are not in this alone. There are people out there,
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: John Grice and Ross Free. You guys are passionate. Your
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: minds are on fire for this. This is which we live,
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: we breathe. Reach out to this outcomes team. The outcomes,
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: the insights beyond the counter part of the Pharmacy Podcast Network. Gentlemen,
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: thank you so much for your time today. This was
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: an awesome conversation and cannot wait to have you back.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Our pleasure.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: Thanks a lot. Great to be here.