Latest / Two in Twenty / AIM High: Thought leadership in today's marketing mix

Transcript

AIM High: Thought leadership in today's marketing mix · Two in Twenty

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to another episode of AI, the podcast for investment marketers.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Twink Field.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: I am the CEO of White Marble and Director of the Association of Investment Marketers.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are talking about thought leadership and content strategies.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to make this a quick intro to Paul Zettel, who is head of global marketing at Cohen and Steers, and James Whiteman, who is head of content at Aviva.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is just jam-packed full of some really great tips for all those thinking about their content planning and the placement of thought leadership in the marketing mix.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: So hi, thank you so much for joining us, James and Paul, to talk about thought leadership in today's marketing mix.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at a time when maybe people are looking for more accessible content, uh shorter content, snackable content, I think it kind of brings us back to really what that role of uh thought leadership is.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I wonder whether to kick off, you could each introduce yourselves and maybe just say how you define thought leadership today and whether you feel like it's changed.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know whether James, you're happy to kick us off and then we'll come to you, Paul.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Twink.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, hi, I'm James Whiteman.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm head of client communications and content at Eva Investors.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've been here three years now.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yes, you're right.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, thought leadership, since I've been in the industry about 10 years or so now, um, on the asset management side at least, um, thought leadership has bec become a massive part of the overall marketing mix.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just grown and grown, grown in importance.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that also means that the word or the phrase thought leadership has been used and and probably um abused uh quite a lot over that time as well.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's um it's now quite hard to really define it.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think people have different understandings of what it is.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um for me, it's not sales collateral, it's not marketing collateral.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: That that does a job that's there to help the sales process.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: But thought leadership really has to be um a piece of content that makes people think and that makes people think differently, um, that challenges their perceptions um and that hope and that helps them get over um a particular client challenge that they might be facing.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's kind of in a in a nutshell how I would describe it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Paul, over to you.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Twink.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I agree with what James was saying that thought leadership is really important for asset management.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: At Cohen and Steers, we're we are the leading active manager focused on listed real assets and preferred securities.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: So our thought leadership and our brand is really based on being an educational authority in our asset classes.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, thought leadership for us is, as James described, educational and also our ability to express a point of view and provide information to help people think differently about what's happening in the market and our asset classes, but it is not sales collateral, it's not uh meant to sell, but it's really meant to educate and express a point of view that's unique to our firm and adds value.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I guess to the point, so when I mentioned earlier, there seems to be this trend for sort of shorter uh snackable content, as I say, and attention spans seem to be reducing.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is that what you see?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So when you talk about thought leadership and educational pieces, are you creating a series of them so that you can kind of take them on the go?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it that big rock of content that we think about, like a white paper?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, is the white paper dead?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't believe that the white paper is dead, but I do believe that the way in which people consume the information has changed dramatically and continues to change.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: So the white paper plays a role, but if you kind of take a step back, if you're trying to educate and express a point of view, white papers can play a role in that.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the format of a white paper has changed.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think the the long-form journal, uh, you know, highly technical investment journals.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: There's really um, we're not seeing a need for that.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: We're seeing a need for information that can be processed quickly in multiple formats.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, podcasts, just as we're we're describing, videos, um, you know, email, really all of the marketing channels and the sales organization also conveying those points of view and expressing it.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we look at the white paper as an anchor to a campaign around expressing a point of view and educating.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so the white paper still plays a role.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't believe it's dead, but it um it needs to be accompanied with modern, snackable, accessible information that reinforces and amplifies the message that you're trying to convey.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I totally agree, Paul.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um if you look at, you know, it needs a bit of a makeover as well.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: So a white paper, you tend to think of a PDF, um, whereas, you know, these days we're we're dealing in HTML world.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um you still can follow the principles of BBC magazine or the New York Times.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um it's too simplistic to say that the white paper is dead.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that's if the content is good enough and and the headlines and the visuals are engaging enough and and you can actually string um you know a coherent narrative together, I think you can sustain people's attention for much longer.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's not necessarily that easy, but you can craft a story um and those visual cues, the design elements that you can, um the bells and whistles that you can add to a digital experience that you couldn't with a PDF, I think do really help that.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: But obviously, as Paul says, um you know, being able to chunk it up so that recognizing that people are different and everyone has their own.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is the big challenge with content at the moment.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone is different.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: So some people like podcasts, some people like video, some people like short form, some people like long form.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you really do you know it makes our life harder.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you probably have to focus on doing fewer things well than um many things kind of averagely well.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: So um actually, so much of it of it is around your content strategy or content planning, as you say, how you're going to leverage and utilize that that thought leadership and that weight white paper.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if if that's the case, are there any other kind of key considerations around the kind of best practice you've given some?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Are there any any other thoughts uh for for that content strategy and and planning?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: So for um Cohen and Steers, I'd say kind of three things to think about with content strategy and best practices.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: What we found is I'd I'd say start with a strong editorial board.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: We call ours the research publishing committee, and it is representative of the senior leaders.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: So our CEO, our CIO, and president, our members of that board, as well as our senior people in distribution who really represent the voice of the client, our head of product and the portfolio specialists team, as well as the senior people on my team, make up that board.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: So every quarter we talk about and set the educational and thought leadership agenda on a quarterly basis.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd say it really starts with the having a strategy that aligns with your business strategy and engaging the senior people, especially in investments, because you're conveying your points of view as a firm.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one uh one best practice in terms of content strategy.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: The um the second is make sure that you're engaging along the way.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: You can't just rely on a quarterly meeting.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: You need to engage your distribution partners regularly.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: So we have bi-weekly segment meetings with that institutional team and the intermediary team separately, where we take those ideas and we refine them.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing is the last point is align your thought leadership with your sales and marketing campaigns.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm a firm believer in the alignment of if this is your you're trying to educate and express a point of view, make sure that your marketing efforts, paid, earned, and own, and your sales effort, your live channel and your marketing channels are aligned in bringing that education forward.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: And when you do that, you have the alignment, you're leveraging the channels, and you have a strong structure with senior people and the buy-in.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: I have found in my experience that creates a really sound strategy.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have to say, having heard that, it sounds like the ideal setup to have that kind of buy-in at such a senior level.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's hard to achieve, right?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is hard to achieve.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, we don't have a formal editorial board.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: We have um played around with it and we have toyed with that.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we found, I mean, we're we're lucky in the sense that we do have very senior buy-in.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So our CEO, Ewan Monroe, is a big fan of our thought leadership, um, the AIQ, um, which is the thought leadership banner that we run our um our campaigns around and our always on program.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he's really bought into the the print magazine and the digital experience and and all the content that flows through that.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that gives me and and my boss Rob Davies um a bit of um confidence and and backbone, I would call it editorial backbone that we have.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I've not seen it anywhere else or kind of heard it in quite the same way that we were we're able to push back to fund managers um on the basis of quality.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we do have a clear editorial voice and a clear um kind of editorial focus.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if we don't feel that something's right or good enough, you know, we can veto it, we can kick it back to them.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh similarly to Paul, you know, having the alignment with the marketing preferences and and so that editorial backbone sitting in marketing is hugely important because um if it's driven by the silos, um, we're we're probably a bit more of a global firm, but definitely uh we're we're more um all-encompassing from an asset class perspective.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: We cover all of the asset classes, and that can be a real challenge when you end up getting tugged in every single direction.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So being able to control some of that from the from the marketing team and make sure that it aligns with the sales and the marketing um campaigns and the overall commercial objectives is really important.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and as I said, yeah, probably similar.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have the formal structure in place, but the editorial backbone that we we really pride ourselves on um allows us to to be able to kind of keep a coherent uh editorial and content strategy.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think what's so brilliant, I guess, around around that is that you know, I've heard it said before that kind of marketing is everybody's responsibility, it's not just marketing departments, and so having that sort of shared accountability, those sort of um committees that go that are, you know, not only senior but across the business, I think is such an important part of getting that consistency, isn't it?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean we we yeah, we so we do the brainstorm sessions um with each asset class, um, and we then take that back and um we engage with sales teams.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um we we did start off trying to have those meetings all in one, um, but there's just too many people in the room.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it just I think I don't know what the science behind um you know meeting effectiveness, but I think it's something like once you get beyond 10 or 15, um you're you pretty much may as well just start emailing each other.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so we decided to to sort of scrap that and um and engage with each asset class on a more personal, intimate um level, and then take that content and those ideas and and and try and work them through the editorial process.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: But just building on that, it's um I think marketing also can play an important role facilitating uh at the prioritization and what are the ground rules, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: So each person, your CIO is expected to represent the asset classes.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Your the reason I would suggest that you you engage senior leaders is you do need to support your business strategy at the end of the day.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: And there has to be some prioritization around across the asset classes, which we do.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that helps when you engage the senior folks.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: But you could do that, even if they're not part of the forum, you could play back and update them what the result is and allow them to express their point of view before you actually get started.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that's another best practice that we had to refine our strategy where we were engaging them too late in the process, as opposed to in the beginning of the process.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, however, you do it, whether it's formally like I described in the research publishing committee or editorial board, or um after you've engaged your various stakeholders and you have your content strategy, I would suggest a best practice is make sure your senior leaders see that strategy and bless it so that it helps you execute that with precision.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's brilliant.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was gonna um say, you know, how do you really help um, you know, sort of get stimulate those ideas, generate ideas for that thought leadership?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess those are the forums.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Either you sort of go armed, having talked to lots of different people across the business, they feel like they can inform the content strategy, and then you then presumably sort of kick that around the table a bit um with with your you know, with your committee members.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is that how you get to sort of decide where you're gonna really place your bets where you can have an authentic voice?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because to your earlier points, you know, it's about doing less potentially, but doing it really, really well so that you can you can populate those distribution channels and with what comes out of that thought leadership.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: So bringing forward a set of topics and suggestions for the editorial board to react to that is the result of those brainstorming sessions or feedback sessions you've had with various groups, portfolio specialists, product management, and the distribution teams, you bring that forward, but you're debating it and discussing it and prioritizing as a team.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody has an opportunity to weigh into it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then if it gets adjusted along the way, once that editorial calendar is set, then you're providing a feedback mechanism, especially if you're only meeting as in our case on a quarterly basis.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: So you're making sure that key people are informed.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: The other best practice that we've applied is not just the topic, but also we take the time to structure what are the three points that we want to convey within that topic and making sure that people have an opportunity to um weigh in to the three points.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we found that's going to be really helpful, or is helpful when a portfolio manager then is doing a video on the topic, they're covering the same three points.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Or the salesperson is doing an intro to a client or prospect, they're covering the same points, putting it in their style, but in essence, you're gaining the consistency through a three-point story framework.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think about the marketing funnel, Paul, at all when you're um when you're creating content, you know, and particularly thought leadership?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because to our earlier point, we're sort of saying it's not sales collateral.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is a bit of a tension that you find, I think, between marketing and sales that can crop up is you know, um, if it's too high up in the funnel or perceived to be, then then there's a question mark around how commercial it is, which I disagree with because I think sometimes the most commercial content isn't the stuff that uh immediately appears commercial, but actually it gets engagement and gets people to you know to visit the site, to be able to cookie them, to be able to start engaging with them, subscribing them and so on.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: But um just interested to know if you if you sort of bucket and categorize your content in around in and around the funnel.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's uh it's a great question, and we don't really.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: We uh we think about what what is that that content, that educational uh point of view, is there a perception about an asset class or about um how an asset class is performing based on the environment?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: So a real example is you know, it given the COVID recession, what what is happening with with REITs and certain sectors like apartments and retail?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so there are real perceptions about rent payments that we need to through data overcome while our sales team is always looking for a fresh topic that's relevant to gain the attention of a prospect.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, also clients want to know what we're thinking and how we're um how we're seeking or uh you know making decisions in the portfolios on their behalf.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: So what's beautiful about when you align the topic to something that is a client need and is offering a fresh perspective that might be also unique in the industry, it typically works in both cases.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: But um, you know, we really don't look at the complete funnel in terms of the different stages.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a great suggestion.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's something that we we need to consider, James.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what we're focused on is again, is that topic going to work in both audiences?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: And will it work across institutional and our intermediary or wealth segment?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um and if so, that's really a great piece.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: But there are times when it's only going to work in one segment and you're doing that for a particular segment and uh and not another.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the marketers have to be aware of how do you deploy your resources in a way that meets the needs of distribution and the clients, as well as the firm need.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that is an art and a science that is quite a balancing act.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also that balance, isn't it, between what have we, our strategic uh plan on that sort of based on that sort of quarterly editorial view, alongside the more sort of relevant topical um sort of play that you might, you know, month to month, week to week, start to inject it within within your content strategy.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you get that blend, presumably.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just thinking to your point around more recently during COVID and working remotely, those digital channels are so congested, of course.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's more people putting more content down the same uh channels.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was just wondering is it back to that you have to be really close to the client to be really relevant to get the cut through?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that how you really achieve um sort of engagement right now?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's a round table that I went to a couple of years ago.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think the FT ran it, and um I remember it.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it was with a group of content creators, you know, investment writing teams, etc.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the question was coming up around, you know, it basically the one person in the room I remember specifically remembering saying, um, why are we bothering?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, there's so we're all trying to do the same thing, we're crowding the market.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you if you take that view, you could say that about anything, really.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you just have to be better than everyone else.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: That is that you know, that's the same with everything that that you do, whether it's marketing, whether it's investment performance, you know, you could say that about um asset management in general.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Why bother there's so many companies out there already?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: So um I I got frustrated with that answer, um, and I thought it lacked ambition, or even to pose the question.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess the reason why that's relevant to today's comp or what you've you know, the question that you've just asked is how do you achieve it's no different really to before.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was pretty crowded before COVID.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just yes, maybe it's become a bit more crowded.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: How you stand out is by continuing to be consistent, to be relevant, to be visually interesting, to be engaging with headlines, to you know, to build trust with your audience.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think there's a marketer, a guy called Seth Godin, who said in a world of zero marginal cost, you know, the only way to build a business is by building trust.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that isn't by measuring everything to the nth degree, and that isn't by clickbait, that isn't, you know, that isn't um uh yeah, effectively.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: have to you know you have to be authentic and you have to be prepared to be different and you just you know you have to have confidence that you're better than everyone else um and of course we are we all can't be above average by definition um but i i hope that a viva investors are building on what james said and i i think that's uh it's so important uh how do you achieve relevance and how do you break through and i agree you know we're all competing for the mind share of the same individuals but we all represent various expertise and what we found is our guiding principle is around education now when COVID first happened we had to pivot we had to be more tactical and acknowledge the environment that we were living in and really zero in on what were the questions our clients were asking about and if you think about you know what was happening in uh the you know February March timeframe the key questions were what's the impact of uh this uh market dislocation on the asset class what opportunities or what are you doing about it and what opportunities are happening so it was it got we had to evolve our edge our content strategy to be much more tactical and answering questions and then are there things we're seeing or based on our experience of managing market cycles are there things that we um we're seeing that others should be aware of and there were also a lot of unknowns and then another question was how is this time different from a prior market dislocation and in the most recent was the global financial crisis so we zeroed in on what were the questions that guided the relevance and that really we adjusted our uh strategy even it went from white papers to what we call market pulses shorter pieces but really tried to answer those questions through our thought leadership and education material and what we found at Cohn and Sears is we were an early entrant to we pivoted like everybody else but we were very quick to be able to educate and then start to sell more quickly than those asset managers that were being very generic and did not did not necessarily pivot around those questions.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we did see great engagement rates and uh you know both uh you know across our channels and with the the distribution organization consultants and clients really found our material meaningful because it was delivering on the questions they were asking so I would say Twink you're absolutely right as is James relevance is important and I would say as marketers make sure your I you have a point of view but engage the people closest to the clients around those key questions and be able to pivot and be nimble to achieve that relevance.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah that's interesting Paul and um we we did very similar thing um where in the immediate aftermath we pivoted to we basically banned any non-COVID content and just specifically focused on it um making sure that we covered all the bases in the asset classes um and we saw as a result of that we were kind of in the UK at least um one of the first um to kind of cover all of the asset classes and our engagement rates went up um we also used webinars more um because you know clearly in the in the immediate um eye of the storm it was almost impossible to write anything um and make it sort of time you know non-time sensitive it was out of date before you kind of finish the first sentence so um where we found webinars were really useful for that and actually um I guess the the funny thing about COVID is that it's accelerated a load of trends within the investment markets um and economically in in general but in marketing I feel like it's accelerated a few things um as well um you know and and webinars have always been there and been around but we've kind of relied a little bit maybe a little bit too much on the written word um when actually you know the best way for us to get the result and to to engage with our clients could have been you know a webinar or a podcast like this.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And actually it's far less resource intensive from an investment writing point of view.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um there are some huge upsides and benefits to to having adopted that.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah we saw an increase in uh in our webinars as well and also the need for custom webinars for clients and consultants.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I would totally agree.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the one of the things we did was also just answering what are the top five questions that our clients are asking and and created more of an open forum but address the top questions.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that really came about working with the product management people and the specialists on what are the questions they're fielding from distribution and synthesize it back around the uh the questions that are top of mind.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: So you can get really tactical one thing about COVID though we the 45 minute webinar we're really we're looking at how do you even reduce that to maybe 30 minutes because there's so much demand and so many webinars that especially consultants that they're participating in.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we also are looking at how do you adjust and even make them more effective or shorter and more concise.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely and I um I guess I'm conscious to your to your point around getting cut through often comes from what where your authority really sits and making sure you don't stray too far.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: So back to that sort of where do you authentically have a voice can can be authoritative in in that part of the market.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you um I think taking that point and please do disagree or or expand on it however you see fit um I I was just thinking about the consistency of that voice and and I wanted to ask the question with you know many different client types that we're talking often talking to across many different channels.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: How do you drive that consistency of your voice in terms of how you talk to clients in one way in a way that is authentic and keeps that all authority and credibility as to where you add that voice?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Paul Yeah so that's something we're um we're living through right now and what I notice you so I've been at Conan Steers for about a year a little over a year and we we have an incredible uh writing team but we and we are a global firm that has multiple asset classes but our editor of the writing team is really fantastic at training his writers on our voice but as we're uh we're engaging different agencies as the the channels are the marketing channels proliferate we really need editorial guidelines and brand guidelines so we're at the at the same time actually working with that team to put on paper and memorializing what is our tone our voice how do we and how should we convey that educational authority in a way that makes sense and is appropriate for the segments and for the marketing channels.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: So we're going through that right now and trying to document it so that we can gain scale but it is it is difficult and there are times when I see you know great headline suggestions and and I'm questioning whether that really is true to that educational authority.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: So that's something the marketing team meets and discusses as a team but at the end of the day you really need those guidelines and you need your um whoever is responsible for the editorial voice to really memorialize it and train people on it.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and um Twing just from a Viva investor's perspective I think having strong brand values helps um and and and obviously communicating that widely across the firm and all of the internal stakeholders that um that that will be involved in producing content um specifically the front office um so uh you know but then also you've got active active we're an active house so we don't have passive kind of distraction so that's a kind of clear um value that will always come through in our content um big focus on portfolio construction and downside protection risk management um ESG you know it's obviously topic de jour but um it's something that we have been at the forefront um you know going back sort of 30 years um or or even further and well back to the 80s so it's something that um does feed through all of our content and I think increasingly you know clients demand um that perspective clients demand um you know people to be and and their investment managers to be responsible so they that you know that needs to be that needs to be one I think on the more specific part um and to Paul's point around creating editorial styles consistency um everything comes through the um the editorial team so nothing goes on the website and nothing goes out the door if it hasn't been through us so that's kind of one way um that works fine for the English language um parts of the business for the for the translated side you know then it becomes and I know you've run um you know European marketing operations in in your past and that becomes a logistical headache um and you have to rely on agencies as Paul mentioned and um that comes with a lot of complexity and risk around um the message and I don't know I I don't know whether our Italian content is on brand or not you know that you you just have to trust the local um marketers to to be doing their job um and I have confidence that they are but there's no way I can check that.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah as you say when you have multiple authors you know uh it it does get it does get tricky and so you have to come back to those kind of key rules and uh and sort of principles to adopt don't you um so I guess uh I feel like we've covered a whole load of things which is brilliant thank you for your candour and openness across this whole area um I wonder whether we could just close with any final tips for marketers listening to this podcast.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm mindful that um you know the engagement the brilliant engagement that you have at such a senior level and across your business with the content strategy, the editorial strategy how I'd love just as a starter for that before any other tips that you would give um marketers building their career but just to answer the question how would you what tips would you give them to engage people in the importance of that content strategy of that editorial strategy if they're struggling to get an audience with the people across their business to really drive the focus for the consistent voice on key areas where we can build a kind of authority authoritative voice how would you help them think about or engage people in the importance of that and and I guess any other final thoughts or tips for people as they put their content strategies, thought leadership um campaigns into practice I I'll uh I'll start and I think it's um it's a guiding principle that's that served me very well and I think it it applies in the in what we've been talking about is the power of collective wisdom.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think marketers need to have a point of view we're talking about thought leadership which is expresses the point of view for the firm the marketer needs to have a point of view on how to achieve that but the power of the collective wisdom of engaging investments engaging distribution engaging fellow marketers it may be corporate communications people in PR, you really need to facilitate and bring people together and allow them to weigh in to that point of view that you're trying to express, that strategy you're trying to convey let people have their thumbprint on it, but don't water it down water down your point of view.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: Allow the collective wisdom to build a better product by engaging these stakeholders it works like magic everywhere I've ever worked and they'll see if you paint the vision of why you need the forum the editorial board what you're trying to achieve and you're getting them to offer their advice and their wisdom that power of collective wisdom can get you to that same result.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you need to build it if it's building a business case you need to do that very rarely do business people who are very busy resist a strong relevant case that's going to make their what they do for a living better and is going to advance the the firm's objective.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a human there's a psychological component about asking someone for advice they love that.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're asking them for advice around shaping the editorial standards and content for the firm who isn't going to want in on that and so you know behold the power of collective wisdom facilitate that conversation and I think if you're a marketer you're in the best position to represent that and build towards that strategy and the uh the meetings the forums that you need and I think they'll find it refreshing.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah Paul that that's brilliant and I'd I'd agree with that.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think building on on that I'd give people two maybe two different routes one down the persuasive um route which is very similar to what you've just said um which would be maybe to draw the analogy with the um the consultancy firms like the McKinsey's uh you know if you really boil down what we do in investments it it is about ideas it's about generating ideas um then you have to be able to articulate them and it's very similar in consultancy um and and if you look at all of them McKinsey BCG um Deloitte their KPMG their thought leadership programs are very very strong and there's a reason why because they have to sell their insight and of course we have the big performance um you know issue to to sort of skirt around which is you know yes performance is hugely important to whether or not a product or a strategy is going to sell but if you strip that out um then it's all it is all about articulating your strategy and your ideas and the and the as you say the collective wisdom of your of your organization and of your teams um to be able to build credibility and to build trust so I think that's the kind of persuasive route.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't want to go down that route which I sympathize with people because I I'm not always the most convincing in um you know dealing with senior stakeholders then do it on the side um start something and just and then prove it you know start small um just get some stuff done on the side of your desk um and then show them the results and and that that works and that I've done that twice um and actually my boss has done that um as well and you know I think once you start showing people what you're doing and and they can see it and they can touch it and they can feel it and they can and then they can actually see the leads coming in and they can see the engagement then your argument all of a sudden becomes even more persuasive.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Guys thank you so much I feel like there's loads that people can be doing and thinking about um me included I feel like I've learned a heap this last uh 35-40 minutes so I'd just like to thank you both very very much for for the time you've taken today and the sharing of your experience and uh expertise so thank you James thank you Paul look forward to talking to you pleasure thank you