Latest / The ACL Athlete Podcast / 067 | Kelsey Griffith - Mental Skills Specialist and Fellow ACL Athlete - Part 1

Transcript

067 | Kelsey Griffith - Mental Skills Specialist and Fellow ACL Athlete - Part 1 · The ACL Athlete Podcast

• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome everyone to the ACL Athlete Podcast.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is the podcast where we talk about everything related to the ACL, whether that's the injury itself, the rehab process, return to sport, and more.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Robbie Patel, performance physical therapist and coach.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Between myself and fellow guests and experts, you'll learn through the lens of the patient, the healthcare professional, and the coach.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: The goal of this podcast is to equip you, the athlete, with the education to make the best informed decision about your care and your ACL journey.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's dive into today's episode.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back, guys, to the ACL Athlete Podcast.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Robbie Patel.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And today I am so excited we have guest Kelsey Griffith on the show.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Kelsey has her master's in sports and exercise psychology.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Kelsey serves as the performance enhancement and rehabilitation specialist at the McKelly Center for Sports Injury Prevention and affiliate of Boston Children's Hospital Division of Sports Medicine.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: She joined the team nearly seven years ago and worked alongside injuries prevention specialists and physicians to support the whole athlete.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Kelsey believes that training the mental game is essential in unlocking the athlete's full potential, both on and off the field.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Her work aims to help each athlete navigate the maze of mental challenges associated with sport to better reach self-determined goals and optimal performance.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Kelsey, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, Kelsey, first off, do you mind sharing with our audience a little bit about your background and how you got into mindset and mental performance?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of a long and winding road, uh, something I never really one knew existed when I was in college and to ever really anticipated finding myself in this world.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I danced all my life.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was a gymnast prior to dancing, um, went to college for dance, planned on dancing professionally afterwards, um, or at least trying to.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: And my see the summer before my senior year of college, I had to have an ankle surgery that essentially took me out of the game.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um kind of just wonky, unexpected.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: But afterwards, after three surgeries, actually, I still moved to New York.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm doing this, I'm dancing, I'm gonna make it work.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I moved to New York, hadn't danced regularly in like probably a year.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, but we're gonna, it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh pretty quickly upon getting to New York, realized I needed a job, I needed insurance, all of those fabulous adulty-ish things.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and was lucky enough to actually find myself working for a physical therapy company called Physio Arts Physical Therapy.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: They were located right in Midtown, and their job was to help Broadway performers, which was super cool because that was kind of the world I wanted to be in professionally as a performer.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh the term I often use to describe myself is I'm respectfully scrappy.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of like know how to work my way into circumstances that are going to be both beneficial to me and then also the people I'm working for.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So knowing they work for Broadway, I was like, hey, maybe they can fix my ankle, that would be lovely.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can network with people, and actually at that point I was debating going into physical therapy as well.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's kind of a trifold benefit.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and while I was there, it was not in a good headspace at all, and started realizing that there had to be more associated with my rehab than just the physical piece.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um at that point, I'd been in PT for over a year.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: My mindset was nothing's working.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I wasting my time on this?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Even though I really see the best of the best.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was like, it's not making a difference, it doesn't matter.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why continue to kind of make money?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wasn't mentally.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um, which was a really interesting thing to experience personally.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: But then what I also started recognizing was that the Broadway performers coming into the facility very much seemed to be in the same sort of headspace.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Their livelihood depended on the fact that their bodies worked, and when they didn't, it was incredibly detrimental to their sense of identity, um, to their day-to-day existence living in New York City.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so my boss at the time, Jenny Green, she's awesome and was like, go get your degree, like, find a program that works for you.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: You always have a job here.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I started pursuing my master's in sports psychology and went to Springfield College, got my master's there.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my kind of plan professionally has certainly morphed as many people experience.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: I initially had wanted to work from a like educational lens, so providing almost curriculum to young athletes, be it at professional dance schools, et cetera, to help kind of give them information and tools and strategies on how to develop a functional mindset in their dance career, um, to say, okay, you're a whole person.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do we tackle things like confidence, resilience, failure?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, particular in the particularly in these sorts of aesthetic sports where perfection is so like at the forefront always.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then I started to realize that I could actually take the things I was doing and apply them to athletes like myself who had gone through injury and weren't in a good headspace and really needed to have these concrete tools to navigate the challenges that they were experiencing.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So a whole lot of personal experience kind of folded into the education piece.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then the McHaley Center.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So my surgeon, who is unbelievable, Dr.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: McHaley, did my ankle surgery, all three of them.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and while I was living in New York, the McHaley Center opened.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had always joked, like, I'm gonna work for that man someday.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so here I am uh again, now like seven years later, working for like one of the most prominent figures in sports medicine in the country, um, which was pretty cool.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's such an awesome journey.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's one of those things that leads us, you know, our own personal experiences, especially with your ankle injuries and surgeries, especially three ankle surgeries that really play a huge role into like your development, as well as seeing a lot of these athletes that you were seeing, whether it was in the physical therapy clinic or interacting with, that really were having a lot of issues on the mental side of things.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then you just were like, I'm just gonna dive straight into this.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, kind of took a big jump.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when I first started pursuing my career after grad school, and everyone was like, This is so cool, you're paving the way.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know, it'd be great if someone could cut the trees down for me and then I cave away.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's really incredible.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: I've actually been talking with a number of people as of late, like the difference in the conversation around mental skills, resilience, all of that in the last seven years is crazy.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're hearing it so much more now.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I do think you know, the future of mental skills training and mental health as a whole, it's going to be far more commonplace.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: The discussions are happening, how to better integrate these sorts of things for not just athletes, but humans overall.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's what's gonna be so interesting to see, especially in the future.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: And even now, like so mental health mindset is such a big component to life, to injury, and being able to make sure that we have these skills available and these different tactics to be able to make sure that we make the right steps and to be able to tackle these different issues that we're we're dealing with.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, before we like jump straight into some of these strategies, uh you're a fellow ACL athlete.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I certainly am.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know I started with the ankle surgery, I haven't even uh gotten into the other stuff.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so tell us.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: So uh most of our listeners are ACL athletes, coaches, clinicians who, or parents like who are uh you know, associated with someone with an ACL injury.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us your ACL story and your experience going through this process.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: It is quite a beast.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I always, you know, sport injury has always been really fascinating to me because I think while mental health, so if one person has anxiety and the other person has anxiety, those experiences can be so dramatically different.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And attending to each individual's need is so important in kind of progress of care.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: From a sport injury standpoint, I think one of the unique things that happens for athletes is there is a shared understanding of what it means to be sidelined.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um which is why, I mean, again, having gone through it myself, after those ankle injuries, I was like, I got this.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I know what this is like, I know how hard it is.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then I tore my ACL and I was like, holy smokes, this is a whole different animal.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so interestingly, I had finally gotten back to dance after, so I had an ankle injury, then I had a back injury.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Collectively, those things took me about like six years.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Long story for another day.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had finally gotten back to dancing actually at my home studio.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was tapping with my former teacher and two of my good friends and former dance classmates, essentially.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: We were in performance.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was the 25th anniversary of the studio.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: We made it through the tapis.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was great, fabulous.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then we were in the finale and they were doing a big, huge ensemble number.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And first thing I did, I came down from a jump.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: There was a little kid because we hadn't all been on stage together yet.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Little kid in front of me who didn't quite know where she was supposed to be.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so mid-air, I tried to back myself up so I wouldn't kick her.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And when I came down, I went down.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and knew probably too much.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a lot of my friends are physical therapists, and so I'm texting everyone.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: One of the dancers I was with at the time, she was a physical therapist.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, knew pretty quickly it wasn't good.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was incredibly fortunate.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was working at children's at the time, and that happened Friday night, Monday morning.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was ushered in to one of our amazing sports medicine physicians right at the McAuley Center.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: From there, I ended up MRI that night.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it all happened really, really quickly.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um now, interestingly, I ended up, so one of our surgeons, who's actually now the chief at sports medicine, Dr.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Martha Murray, she had uh developed a new protocol for ACL surgery called the FAIR protocol, which is the bridge-enhanced ACL repair.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: At the time, well, and still it's in you know, trial, they're looking to see kind of over time how how people are doing with the protocol.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: But basically, I regrew my ACL, which is super cool.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And is, I think, again, Dr.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Murray, I know, has kind of been going around talking about bear, you know, the benefits to it.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And as an adult active person, yeah, I was lucky to not have this kind of immediate sense of urgency to get back to something.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I was kind of a prime candidate to do the bear protocol.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: It did take a little bit longer.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't drive for 12 weeks because it was my right leg.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Fortunately, I my mom was local, so I was able to stay with her.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it was a super humbling experience uh having to go at 29 years old back to my mom's for a very long time.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Love her dearly.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: She was incredibly supportive, but it was hard.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was really hard.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And getting back to work, again, lucky working for children's working for the McKay Center.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: They know this, they see this, they were incredibly accommodating.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I did PT up the hill for a little while.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Then I did uh recovery and return to sport training with our athletic trainers, and uh, I'm sorry, strength and conditioning specialists.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like situationally, I it couldn't have been better.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it was hard, it was exhausting, it was scary, it was frustrating, it was isolating, everything just felt really heavy for a while.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, it's even just like we take for granted the ability to drive.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and you're like I needed a birthday card one day, and I was like, I literally can't go to the store to get this birthday card.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and even to get in the car with my mom, because with the bear protocol, your knee has to be locked straight for much longer than you would normally.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Getting in the car was like, like I was middle summer.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I did anything, I was like sweating by the time I got home.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Do I just send my mom to pick out a birthday card?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was just so weird to have to switch back into that like very kind of helpless place.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh, for sure.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so hard, and we take that for granted.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just the ability to drive or the ability to walk around or get a birthday card, you know, and it's one of those.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And especially, and for you guys listening, the the bear procedure is a very unique procedure that is still pretty early in terms of like the research and development.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not the typical normal recovery path for ACL, but it's there's some promising results with this, and it's a very unique population where it's just an ACL injury and they come and repair it together.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And there have been some promising results, just super early.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's cool to be able to talk to Kelsey about this, and she's gone through this process and has been a good candidate for it.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like it has worked out pretty well to your favor, right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's been really cool.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I will be followed for a total of six years.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Crazy this July will actually be four.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well I remember when they said six years and I was like, oh, that's so far away.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And now the you know, two-year time work we've been living in has certainly sped up that timeline, timeline a little bit.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, every time they do the MRIs to check, like things are in a really great spot.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, the ligament continues to get stronger, which is really cool to see.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And nice to, you know, because of my circumstances, to be able to be a part of that and kind of contribute to that foundation of knowledge was really exciting.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like you're in such a unique place with one with the mental skills side of things, but then also going through the process yourself of an ACL injury.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: As you've been going through this, or you know, you're four years out now, as you were early in this process, how was your mindset?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Was this something where you were starting to integrate all this education and mental skills training that you had learned, or is this something where you weren't immune to this?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was like very much impacting you, depending on the parts of the process.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, occasionally my mom would do the what would you say to your clients?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: to which I, of course, responded uh not so favorably in those moments.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I certainly, you know, even given my profession, I was not immune to the challenges that come with this injury.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Retrospectively, like I'm able to look back and I think better use my experience to help other people than I probably was able to help myself, um, particularly in regards to like finding the wins.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about it all the time, like even amidst things when they're the worst that you feel like they could ever be to find the good stuff.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so the example I always give, like, I wanted a pair of shorts.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: I had tickets to go see Kenny Chesney, and I refused to give up my tickets.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted a pair of shorts because I knew they'd be like easy to put on with my brace, like nice and light for like you know, 4,000 degrees summer, even in New England.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And my mom took me to the mall.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, All right, are you sure you want to do this?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Yes, let's do it.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have to get out of the house.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And she dropped me at the door.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is the mall I've like gone to my entire life, like, could walk through with my eyes closed.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: I got into the store, which was like as close to the entrance as it could have been, tried on the shorts, got out.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time I had done that, my mom had dropped me, parked the car, gone and done like four other errands, and gotten back to the car to get me at the door.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, it was just it felt impossible.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I this thing that should have been again, like getting the birthday card so easy.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was sweating.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, this wasn't important.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Why did I do this?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And again, my mom, you know, wonderfully pointed out, but like, did you get the shorts?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, yes, I got the shorts, you know.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So finding like setting those small goals had to become so important.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the thing I want to do today?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's take a shower by myself, whether it's like get figure out how to get water back to the couch.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I became very good.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: I got cup holders for my crutch, those were wins.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: I also met a lot of friends.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: They thought the cup holder on the crutch was super cool.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Amazon is great, you can find anything you need.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it was it was hard.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I would say like I the wins were the biggest thing, like really kind of keeping tabs on one thing a day that felt good, whether it was, oh, today I actually could go get the birthday card, or you know, even though my mom had to drive me, I got the card, or even though that experience of buying the shorts was like the most exhausting thing I had done in six months, like I still accomplished the task I set out to do.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's and I love that so much, finding the wins, especially celebrating the small wins.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, talking with most of my athletes, one of the things that you just get it's easy to get caught up in the day-to-day of just the ACL recovery or injury recovery and just feeling like it's such a long road and such a long process, right?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And in order to start to try and move the needle, it's really important to start focusing and celebrating those small wins.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And even if it's just the small things like, you know, you got 10 degrees on your flexion, right?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or you're able to, you know, go get the shorts that you want, right?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like those types of things, you know, it it's those things that are gonna help us kind of continue to keep that momentum going, yeah, especially in this really long process.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it's interesting.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think with with longer running injuries like ACL, one of the things I talk to my athletes about a lot is we always want more, right?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, like when you're stuck on the couch, all you want to do is be able to like walk to the bathroom and take a shower on your own.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, I would give anything to be able to do that.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then you get there and we immediately forget that that was something we wanted so badly.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then all we want is the next thing is the like, gosh, this is horrible.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't even do X, whatever X is.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then we get to X, and then it's like, all I want to do is run, and I can't run.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then we get to running, and it's like, all I want to do is be able to play my sport.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we kind of erase the progress along the way.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really, really encourage athletes, anyone going through this injury or any injury, like, don't erase those wins.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Write it down because you're gonna, when you're wanting to get back to your sport, when you're, you know, six months, you're looking, looking down the line, you're seeing that sport's coming, hopefully, not too far away.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna forget all of the stuff you've gone through and all of the wins you've already had because you don't have that one thing.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, make sure you remember all the things because it will help you recognize that the work you're putting in matters, which then continues to motivate you forward.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's those small little 1% changes that continue to keep that going.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's so important, especially for you ACL athletes listening, is try to just record uh these small wins every single day.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, one thing I'll ask my athletes on a weekly basis is what was a win from the past week or even from your day.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And being able to journal this is so important and to keep tabs on it.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have an ongoing list, or even go into your notes section in your iPhone and then just start a running list of all the wins, no matter how small it is, to be able to keep track and see where you've been.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because like like you said, Kelsey, like it's very normal in human behavior to want the next thing.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so this can be a good and simple strategy to use to make sure you also appreciate the work that you put in and all the things that you have accomplished.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Phones are the best and worst tool, I'm sure, from parents for my athletes to have because it's easy, it's right there.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: You have it all the time.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Just keep a running list.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Also, social media has been a really interesting platform.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of my ACL athletes start like an ACL account to track their progress.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's, I mean, it's a community, right?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like you find people who are going through that and to feel that support in other athletes or and and non-athletes who are going through it to know, like, oh, I can celebrate the fact that like I always sat down on a toilet, right?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like again, those little things.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I sat down on the toilet and like I didn't have to like maneuver my leg around X, Y, and Z to do it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, right, oh, that should be exciting.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's okay that I'm excited about that.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And like so and so also just felt that way, right?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like that the social media community, I think, around ACL in particular is really remarkable.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's really cool.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I had we we had Jordan on the podcast a while back, Jordan Angely with the ACL Club.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And even the ACL Club being able to follow that and see uh what they're doing, and it's just like an incredible community of athletes who are going through this specific injury.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of those things where you can feel really isolated, right?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's one of those where you're like, you know, is anyone else dealing with the same things that I'm dealing with?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's not just some sort of shoulder pain that, you know, just kind of goes away or you kind of work through this, it's just such a different injury, right?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so the community itself is so important to be able to connect with that.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: With that said, I want to shift.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: So with mental performance and mental skills training, what exactly is it and who's it for?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, great question.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, mental skills training is designed to help athletes develop strategies to navigate adversity in sport and performance.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: I always joke when I give presentations, I think people expect that I talk about puppies and rainbows and happy things all day.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I say my job is actually quite the opposite to say like sport, performance, injury rehab, like it's hard.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: So let's make sure we have the tools to handle things when it's hard.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's mental skills training is essential in helping the athlete achieve optimal performance both on and off the field.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I recently was a part of a book chapter with some colleagues, and one of the things we focused a lot on was the art and the science of mental skills training, which I think is a really nice way to approach the field because what we do is evidentially backed by research.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And yet, so much of our job is taking those things that research has found to be effective, things like goal setting, self-talk, imagery, all of these strategies that help provide athletes with concrete tools, but then knowing how to meet the client where they are, knowing how to adapt to the plan when needed, knowing that what we need is different than what the athlete might need that day or what we expect the athlete to need.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the things I really like to emphasize, and I know Robbie, you and I have spoken about this, is that mental skills training is not just for people who are already in the hole, right?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of times I see clients when they're coming to me, whether it's performance-based or injury-based, when things are already really, really hard.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're digging them out.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it and we certainly can, right?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's there's immense progress when we're digging out because we're starting kind of so deep, anyways, that like providing any sort of strategy and tool to help handle that adversity can feel kind of monumental.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: But my goal is to help make mental skills training proactive, right?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: To exist in a world and in a facility like the McAuley Center as an injury prevention facility to say, like, this can happen before there's a problem, before you're in a hole.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that then when you run into the challenges, you're ready for it.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of getting to the challenge and being like, oh gosh, something's wrong.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, talk about mindset, when all of a sudden you're going through ACL and a physician four months in recognizes that the athlete is struggling mentally, then it's like, I'm broken and I need to be fixed rather than no, like this is hard.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Let's recognize, like, you know, you're going to PT for months and months and months on end.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know it's going to be challenging.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: So let's give you all of the tools, both mentally and physically, to be ready for that.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love that so much.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the whole concept of being proactive rather than reactive.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, this is something that can happen just in healthcare in general, where it's like we're waiting to get sick or waiting for it to happen.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then we're like, oh, let's react to this.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, especially when we notice these certain trends, especially with athletes who are dealing with injuries like this, we know that these types of things can really set in.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, how can we get in front of this?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And how can we make sure we're not only attacking because obviously, like it's a physical injury, so then that's where a lot of the focus goes to, but then there's the whole mental piece to it to make sure that we are attacking this from the front and not just waiting, like you said, three months in or even six months in to be able to react to it, right?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think another interesting piece and something that's certainly come to light for me in my work throughout these last two years with COVID, sport for so many is like the optimal coping tool.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so in the pandemic, you know, from a mental health standpoint, many of my athletes who were high-functioning, high-achieving individuals, all of a sudden sport was gone and they didn't have the resources they needed to be able to cope with stress from school, stress from the pandemic, isolation, et cetera.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the same thing goes with injury, right?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: So these kids who like sport is the place they get to go after school.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's an outlet, it's social.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much that goes into being an athlete.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's identity, right?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like for so many of these people, you pull sport away and you're like, holy smoke, like what?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: How do I handle all of these things that like I didn't even realize sport was helping me with?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now, on the flip side of that, one of the things I encourage athletes to do when they are sidelined is to take some time.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who are you outside of your sport?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's such an important thing to explore.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we often neglect to do so because we're so busy with sport.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: So retrospectively, it can be incredibly beneficial to be sidelined, which athletes have a hard time hearing.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, recognizing the the coping mechanism that is sport.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: And when that's gone, like mental mental resilience becomes challenging, but also to recognize that mental health can become far more at the forefront than anyone ever anticipated.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really lucky at children's because, in additional, in addition to me, from a mental skill standpoint, we do also have clinical psychologists and social workers who work with our athletes.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we get to work collaboratively from that kind of mental wellness branch, addressing both mental health and mental skills.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's so awesome.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that whole team approach is so helpful in this to not only address some of those physical components, but then as you had mentioned, being able to work with clinical psychologists, people like yourself, right?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh who are working on the mental performance side of things to be able to make sure that not only that physical aspect gets addressed, but also that mental aspect.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: And as you had mentioned, you know, that whole identity piece is a really interesting concept.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of those where and the pandemic threw such a huge curveball at this because it created a lot of isolation.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Schools, you know, had to go into their own different domains.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: But then you also take ACL athletes who are, you know, working, who have their kids at home, who are playing recreational sports, like you know, all these different categories of athletes and ages and activities, and some of that stuff just gets taken away.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're just like, well, what do I do?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is what my identity is uh associated with.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I love about that is as what you had mentioned, is this is an opportunity to figure out what is it outside of just my sport do I identify with?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um to figure out who you are as an athlete, but then also outside of that.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: So um I love that a lot.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um so one of the things that uh I wanted to talk about is the kind of practical advice and some go-to things that you do with your own athletes, someone who might be struggling with potentially the mindset or mental health piece of things.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say an ACL athlete just had their injury, right?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you're where do you start with them?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like that question.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so say I'm getting them pre-op.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think one of the first things I would have an athlete start to do regularly is the wins.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Track them, write them down right from the start.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, in that prehab sort of place, it's really interesting because you're gonna get strong.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember having this moment of like, do I need to have this surgery?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel really good right now.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're gonna go from feeling like strong to then having a day where you can't lift up your own leg.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's hard.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: But to see, okay, when I first got hurt, it was hard to get around, it was hard to walk, and like look at where I got.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm kind of back to that place of far less function, but like I can do that again from a self-efficacy standpoint.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: So self-efficacy is essentially our belief and our ability to be successful in a particular domain.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um so, like as a dancer, my self-efficacy is quite high.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: As a softball player, not so much, right?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the greatest predictors of self-efficacy is past success.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can see again in that prehab place, like put in the work, saw the result, I think post-op that becomes you're like, okay, like yes, right now is hard, but before I've put in the work and I saw the results.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, that kind of propels you forward.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Another piece I think is really, really important right from the get-go is having a place to process how you're feeling.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Robbie, you mentioned journaling before.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite tools I use with athletes, I call it your tantrum journal.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: I started to recognize I do a lot of work with self-talk.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: And what I started to see with a number of athletes was this idea of like, yes, I know I do better when I talk positively or productively to myself, but like I don't have the space for it when I'm feeling overwhelmed or stressed or frustrated, angry, et cetera.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that little thoughts trying to make it in to say, like, you can do this, but everything else is so darn loud.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: That the little good guy is just never gonna break in.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started, I think I might have been in a store and like saw a kid throwing a tantrum.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: And like afterwards, like the parent tried to fix it a couple times, you know, get the kid off the floor, and like the kid really just screams louder.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually the parent just like let it happen.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: And once the kid was done, it was like, hey, do you want to go see the puppy outside?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the kid was like, sure, and like totally redirected, right?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like just had to get it out.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I I always joke with my athletes, like, I'm 33, and I really wish sometimes I could throw myself on the floor and just have a tantrum, not quite as socially acceptable anymore, unfortunately.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: So like we have to have a place where we can do that.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes what can be tricky with ACL in particular, well, really all injuries in particular, is that sense of like, you know, mom and dad don't get it, right?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: If they haven't experienced it, when they're like, but it'll be fine, you'll get back, don't worry.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're in it, you're kind of like, like you know, they're right.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like what they're saying is true.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes in that moment, you don't want it to be fixed.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: You just need to be able to be angry and to feel scared and to feel frustrated.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: The journal allows that space to do it now.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: What I always encourage with the journal, so literally for those listening, like set a timer, two to three minutes, and just write.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Even if you start out by saying, I heard this on a podcast, sounded weird, but I'm giving it a try.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just start to write, and eventually things will start to come.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: When you're done, crumple it up, throw it away.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're not invalidating what you're saying.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're not saying like I shouldn't be thinking these things, these are stupid things to think.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: You're saying, okay, right now in this moment, these thoughts are not helping me to be aspiresy.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really important because I want to emphasize like, you should be frustrated, you shouldn't be angry, you know, all of that is so okay.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes fighting that actually makes it harder when you're like, everything's fine and fabulous, and I'm okay, and this it just kind of makes the not so good stuff even bigger.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: We just need a place to get it out.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so crumble it up, throw it away.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: But then remember and a colleague of mine used this example if you push water away and you don't put something in its place, the water's gonna come flooding back.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing goes for not so helpful thought.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Get rid of it, tantrum it out, crumble it up, throw it away, and then write down like what does help me right now?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so say you're walking into PT, maybe your session the day before was awful, like you didn't your range of motion wasn't where you wanted it to be.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you saw your physician who was like, Oh, we really got to push this, you know, flexion, extension, etc.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're going in, you're like, what if I don't today?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: What if I fail again today?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Get that out and then redirect your attention.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Say, you know what, like I can do hard things.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: My PT is here to support me.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one percent better today.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's focusing on certain exercises, like if you're doing glue bridges, like you know, pay attention to my glutes and hamstrings, right?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Make your thought intentional so that it can work for you rather than defaulting to what's not so good, because that that's the easiest path.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's the path of least resistance.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: We gotta actively work to change that.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that so much.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so many gems within that.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's so important to be able to have a space to do that, like you said.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the tantrum journal, I love it.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: I will get there's inevitably, if you've been on this journey or you've been working with someone on this journey, inevitably there's gonna be a certain point where there's going to be a certain threshold where you're just gonna be mad, you're gonna be pissed, you're just like something didn't work out the way that you wanted it to, because it's just such a long journey, and each person's uh journey is so different.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I tell my athletes is you know, when this this happens, kind of like you said, get it out, and it's okay.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay for this space to be here, and it's okay for you to feel this way, just do it fast.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't sit, don't sit in it, don't be miserable, don't sit in it for you know days and weeks.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do it, like you said, have these strategies in place.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: So get your journal or whatever it is, write it out, brain dump it, and then ball it up, throw it away, you know?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's one of the things that you can do.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do that fast, and then like you said, you got to keep the water separated.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we got to put some good things in place in order to make sure that that doesn't just set back in because it's so easy, so easy for that to come back in.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was just gonna say another thing um from uh like what do we fill the space with goal setting would be huge too, which I'm sure you do a ton with your athletes.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's our goal today?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: How are we working towards that?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Have concrete, actionable items, keep them realistic, right?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because every athlete, for the most part, post ACL, like the goal is get back to sport, right?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big goal.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's the only goal that you have, every day you don't get there feels like a failure.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: So find the intermediary.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: That can be a super, super awesome like filler after the tantrum journal.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Every day you walk into PT, something small.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's literally like when I notice my mindset going to a place I don't want it to, I'm gonna distract myself and redirect, right?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's a goal because in essence, that goal will still get you to getting back to sport.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Becoming aware of that mindset early in the process is gonna be way easier to kind of keep yourself in check throughout the process because it's not linear.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: There are gonna be days where you're like cruising up.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: I feel awesome, I'm making so much progress.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is so exciting.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Then you're gonna hit that plateau, or you're gonna have a setback and you're gonna say, wait, what the heck just happened?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was not part of the plan, you know.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think humans like controllables.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: We like to know.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's I've actually worked with some of our surgeons.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked about guidelines and timelines as helpful or harmful.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think they were laughing because they're like, we can say over and over and over again to our to our patients, like six months is probably not gonna be when you get back to sport.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, and what do you think happens if they're six-month checkup?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like they they don't get cleared and they are heartbroken.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they looked at me, they were like, are we not saying it right?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because like they're like they're not hearing it.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you know, in the media, like professional athletes who are getting back in the six-month timeline, like everyone sees that, they're like, That's that's what I need to do instead of recognizing like comparison is exhausting.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: It just sucks energy from what you need to be doing, what you need to be controlling.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's I think where the timelines can be harmful when you see your teammate who got back at X point and had a pretty linear progression, and you're like, why isn't that happening to me?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: What did I do wrong?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that you did anything wrong.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that your experience with the injury is different, and that's okay.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but have helping athletes recognize that from the outset to say in a first visit pre-op, like, this is gonna be hard, it's not gonna be linear, avoid comparing yourself to others because it's only gonna suck the joy out of anything and everything you're doing, you know, to kind of set that at the forefront, I think could be incredibly helpful.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's so important.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: And this comes back to setting expectations and where is what voices are you letting in?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, if it's the surgeon you're working with, physical therapist, mental health professional, like you know, all of these are hopefully people that are guiding you in this process.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: The thing that can be tough is that with social media, with online, with even with professionals, like you know, it can get there can be a lot of noise of like, okay, you know, we could do this in six months.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: The classic Adrian Peterson got back in four months after ACL.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: He is literally 0.001 or the 0.001% of anomalies of human athletes.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like you see him perform.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: So to be able to put ourselves in these same shoes is just not comparable.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: But like you said, setting the expectations, you know, being able to know this is probably gonna be longer than six months, it's probably gonna be a year.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I tell majority of my athletes who anyone who has surgery, nine to twelve months before you realistically can have any sort of like normalcy you feel like.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's even with my own injuries, my own two A scale injuries.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, I didn't really feel like my true self until 12 months after.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really after working really hard in my rehab, and that's hopefully if the resources are there for you, right?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, yeah.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: All right, guys, that is going to be it for part one in this two-part interview series with Kelsey Griffith.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you're taking a lot away from this.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sit on it, think about it.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Next week, we're going to be talking about part two.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to be answering some questions from Instagram.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to dive into more of mindset training specifically.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we're just excited to get this out to you.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: So stay tuned for next week.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.