Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 284: The Archer's Paradox

Transcript

Ep. 284: The Archer's Paradox · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven versatile
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: hunting apparel from Marino Bass layers to technical outerwear for
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer. Okay, we're
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: recording remotely right now from Kerrville, Texas in a hotel
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: thing like a very bland stale hotel meeting room with
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the not very bland at all, highly esteemed Dr ed
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Ashby from the Ashby Bow Hunting Foundation, who is um
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: developed lifelong expertise and arrow and broadhead technology. But before
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: we get to him, we got to talk with with
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: our buddy, Jason Phelps has been on the show a
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: bunch of times, including some of our most popular episodes
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: ever when he comes down and explains, uh, what elk
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: are saying when they make noises? How to mimic those noises?
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: And of course you know from Phelps game calls, and
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: you know what, Yannie, what was the uh? Um? Tell
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: people go how to find that hunt you did with
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: you and Phelps the YouTube hunt. You can go to
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: meat EAT's YouTube page and uh find the latest season
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: of meat Eator Hunts and uh, it's the first two episodes,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Part one and part two when I was stunting pelts.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: He's all nervous. He keeps watching to make sure you're
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: ELK episode out in view metrics. He doesn't want it
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: to get it's I guess it's like neck and neck
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: between your metator Hunt's meal your episode and you meet
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: your Hunts elk episode. He wants that one to be
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: number one. Yeah, he's got real strong opinions about why
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: I should be number one. And he thinks squirrel hunting stupid.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: So if you make a scroll hunting one and it
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: whoops that one, I've got one plan for this fall,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: So get ready, Jason. Okay, So Jay's felts Uh why
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: He's like, what's wrong with plastic vehagle tubes? Why? Why
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: did you want to mess around an aluminum vegle tube? Yeah? Up,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: un to this point, we had all relied on plastic
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: um to try to get a high pitched um you know,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: those better familiar with oak vocalizations, like a bowl vehagle
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: gets to a very very high frequency um up around
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: like hers. And we've always used plastic and harder plastics
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: to try to get there. Uh, And so the idea
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: came about where, well, if we used an aluminum um material,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: we would able to be able to get to that
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: frequency um maybe better than plastic um would get there.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So nobody had used it. And then the idea of
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: trying to solve a problem that we had with plastic
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: vehagle tubes. The other thing that it did in a
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: roundabout way by being able to get to a higher pitch,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: we were able to put like a near premaus on it,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: which fixes another issue of bigger plastic tubes. UM. They're
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: extremely noisy as you walk through the woods, if you
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: hit a tree, if you hit brush, as they dragged
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: through the brush. So by putting the neoprenus sleeve on
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: the aluminum, we were able to kind of make a
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: hybrid system that solves a couple of issues. We can
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: maintain the high note, keep it quiet um. The end
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: result is a very very loud vehicle tube, louder than
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I can be on my plastic tube. So it is
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: an effective tool in the woods where you know, I
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: got a better chance at getting a response from a
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: bowl at a further distance. And then we had one
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: shot we've been also working on attachments called the easy
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: vehgler mouth piece and the flared mouth piece, and we
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: didn't have the right system to attach those two and
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: so during this aluminum design process, UH, we were able
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: to design it to accept these attachments, UM, which will
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: really assist people that can't put a diaphragm in their
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: mouth to be able to steal bogle and be effective
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: out in the woods. And so another thing about the
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: metal vehicle tubes, it comes with like a mouth piece
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: that which you call the easy bagleer mouth piece, which
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: you make clear is for people that don't want to have, like,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: don't like to have a diaphragm calling her mouth. Can't
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: make a diaphragm calling her mouth? Yeah, so right now,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: and you know the best way to bagle is to
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: put an internal diaphragm which consists of a piece of latex,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: a frame and some tape to seal the call off
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: in your mouth. And we create our vehicles to that. UM.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: One thing we've noticed over a lot of time, UM
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: talking with a lot of customers, you know, gag reflexes.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: People that just can't figure out, UM how to run
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: the call. Their mouths don't work right, you know, on
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: and on there are reasons why people can't run a diaphragm,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: and so what we design is we've taken our very
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: very popular ant diaphragm, taking the tape off and then
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: created a seal inside of an external attachment and all
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: you have to do is put your bottom lip over
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the small air opening and blow. Uh. There is a
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: little bit of of skill involved, but it's it's you know,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: at ten percent of being able to run an internal diaphragm.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: You literally just have to put your lip over the
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: bottom of whole, apply you know, different pressures, and blow
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: through it to achieve in a bold bagle. So it's
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: very easy and it solves a lot of issues that
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: people have it running a diaphragm. So I want you
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: to compare what these different things sound like. So take
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: one of your regular diaphragms and hold it up to
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: the aluminum bagle tube and rip right, and then go
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: ahead and crank one out with the mouthpiece and maybe
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: do whatever back and forth, you know, so people can
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: hear the difference between what they're what you're getting with
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: a diaphragm and what you're getting with the easy beagle
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: or mouthpiece. Which you really just like kind of put
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: your mouth over and and blow. Yeah. So we've taken
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the this tube had the easy bogle are on it,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: so we've switched over to the flared detachment, which is
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: meant for diaphragm colors, and we'll give it a little go. So, yeah,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: that's a diat it. It's got great back pressure, it's
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: easy to run, and it's got great sound. So we
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: just went ahead and took the flared mouthpiece off, snap
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: the easy Bugler on, and we'll give it a give
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: it a go. So one thing I can tell by
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: blowing it in my office here versus the first one,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: and you may not be able to tell since we're
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: going over the phone Steve, is that this is extremely loud.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Um not easy Bugler was. I don't know if it's louder,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: but it's definitely louder, and it's it's it's evident by
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: what my ears are feeling right now that that easy
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Bugler is louder. And I'm allowed diaphragm color, but I
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: cannot get the same volume out of a diaphragm as
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: I can that easy Bugler mouth piece. So, like I
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, I don't want to be a broken record,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: but it's got some good utility out in the woods.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Or an Elk hunner trying to get something to respond. Yeah,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: there's a like there's a market difference in the volume
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: and how well it carries. So you're either gonna Elk
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: are gonna hear better, other dudes are gonna know you're
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: there and move away. Either way, it's win win, all right, man, Um,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: we will talk to Jason Susan take our Yeah, thanks
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: for having me. You guys have fun in Texas and
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: we'll see you guys soon. Doctor ed Ashby big time
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: researcher and arrows and broadheads Wow Ashby Bowl Hunt Foundation. Right,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: but now you don't have a doctor in that. You
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: got a doctor at eyeballs. Yep, that's it, that's all right.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: The military doctor. I was in the military yep. Spent
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: uh almost ten years in the Air Force and changed
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: over the Public Health Service. Worked out on the Indian
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: reservations for a number of years. That was in the
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: area office covered seven states up in Minnesota, that area
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: up in there, and then it ran the eye care
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: program nationwide for the Federal Bureau or Prisons. In my
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: last four years, so I did twenty six years with
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: the government, long enough, and then you went off to Africa.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I retire, liquidated everything I had in the States, moved
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: to Africa, got it and got into the Then he
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: got into the broad heads and arrows. But I actually
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I was doing stuff like that long before uh. I
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: got involved with the Tall study back in eighty four.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: And uh by pure accident, pure good luck. Good luck
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: has seemed to follow me the whole time I was.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: I had written over trying to see if I could
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: uh hunter rhino with bowing era and no, it wasn't legal,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: couldn't couldn't do it. And then what gave you the
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: idea that you should have should have to even ask
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: somebody to if you could shoot a rhino with a
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: born arrow? Or who did you write to? Well? I
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: wrote to the game department there in South Africa asking
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: about him. And then when they decided they wanted to
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: look at archery and see about legalizing it. Uh, they're
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: in the Tall Province. They were having an eating sitting
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: around talking about, you know, how they were gonna set
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: this up, how they were going to do it, what
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: animals are going to shoot? And they got talking about
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: the big animals. What you know, how big an animal
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: could you take? And stuff? And somebody there and I
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: still don't know which. One of them said, you know,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: somebody wrote me to three years ago, uh, asking about
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: hunting a rhino. So I think I've still got the letter.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Went and looked in their files. They did contacted me,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: said you still want to come try to shoot the
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: rhino with boring air. Told me about ten seconds to
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: say yes, and uh, so you know we set that up.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I went over, I did the rhino hunt while I
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: was there and talking to him and stuff. It's got
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: a few other animals on that trip. Uh. They said, Look,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: I said, this is what we're doing, and we're looking
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: at if we want to legalize this. So would you
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: like to come back next year? So let's repeat the
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: rhino and then you bring as many different broadheads as
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: you can lay your hands on, and we'll go into
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Maccouzi Park and before the Rifle Cup, we have to
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: cull animals every year and we will shoot as many
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: animals as we can shoot. And we want to, you know,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: take a look at the effectiveness and what we turned
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: out and doing is they literally wanted to take any
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: shot that we thought we could make because they wanted
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: to look at what happened when you made bad shots
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: with different arraw set ups and so forth. And so
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: we went in there and I think you shot a
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: hundred fifty four animals in thirty days in Maccuzi. Uh.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: But we were backed up with a rifle for that,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: so that if you shot an animal and you weren't
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: sure it was gonna be a lethal head, they would
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: put it down with a rifle immediately somewhere remote from
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: where the era was, so that we could dissect the
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: animal and look and see what the air had done,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: make a determination would it have been lethal? Would it not? Um?
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: You know what happened? Why was it not lethal? Um?
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: And if we couldn't determine, they had a couple of
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: veteranarians on staff that we could take the animal back
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: into their shed. There the veteranarians were dissect them and
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: tell us exactly what they found if, you know, and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: make a determination would it have been a lethal hit,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: would have not? It was rather interesting experiment. Uh. It's
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: rare to get an opportunity to do that. All the
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: later research we had to do on freshly cold animals,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: but all of that initial was done live animals, and
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: most of it was on Oh, we did a few
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: zebra and kudo and in y'alla, in Paula ward hogs.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Most of the initial study was done on smaller animals
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: other than the rhinos. And uh, what haven't you shot
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: at the rhino? They died? How quick? Uh? They were
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: a pretty good distance. The first one probably covered I
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: would say it probably at least a half mile. But
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: we have much better air setups now than we had then.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Then I'm working with no knowledge of of what's gonna
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: make the most effective ERA set up. All I could
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: go on was a little bit of historical data. There
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: wasn't and nobody had shot a white rhino. He's twice
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: as big as a black rhino. He's six thousand pounds
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: instead of three thousand. Uh. There had been a couple
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: of people shoot black rhinos. Um. Bill Nagley had shot one,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: and Bob swine Hardy shot one. Uh. And of course
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Howard Hill didn't do a rhino, but he'd done the
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: elephant and stuff like that. So I had to draw
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: on what I could find in their writings to try
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: to devise an error. And uh, um, I actually designed
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: a different era for the second time around. It was
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: one era hill and it went a little bit further.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: It was a rather exciting story on him because I
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: shot him from from six ft away seven feet give
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: me away from my footprints to his with no rifle
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: back up. And so it was and that's the only
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: animal that's ever shaking me up. After it was over,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: what was going on, as calms could be. After I
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: shot him, I shook like a leaf. Didn't know where
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: you were standing there. Well, it was an old bull
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: that had actually been d hornedy. Is actually bigger than
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: the first rhino, which was huge. Uh. It lived in
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: this one valley and said we were trying to take
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: off one of these old bulls but no longer breed.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: And every time we would see him he would go
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: out and he'd go through this mountain pass. Well, we'd
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: gone out that morning. We dropped all the trackers off
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: on fresh tracks to gold look and see what kind
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: of rhino it was and which rhino it was. Uh,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: see if it's one, we're going to go after night
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: and there was just Chris Freeman and I left. He's
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: one of the game Game War game rangers there and uh,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: we came to that big basin and looked there was
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: that bull down there again. And Chris said, okay, now
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: he's done this to us several times, said, I'll give
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: you forty five minutes. Associated you go around to that
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: that cut he's going out in, you'll probably got the
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: same way. Then I'll try to stalk him real slow
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: and easy, just like we have and and he'll probably
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: push right out through there. And I did. So I
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: went up to that draw and it kept getting there,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: and there in this real steep bank, like sixty degree
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: on both sides, and as you got it right up
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: to the end of it, it opened up into a
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: big white area. But they're at the end of it.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: There's two trails. There's one that's about three ft up
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: on the side and one down in the bottom. And
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I look and all the tracks are on the bottom.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: So I said, well, there's nowhere where else to go.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I gotta stand on this upper track. And so I
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: get up standing there and I'm waiting and waiting pretty
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: soon and hear rocks rolling, rocks kicking. I'm sitting there
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and I'm all ready and I cut my eyes around
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: and he's about twenty yards from me. On the upper
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: trail and he comes on and he gets about fifteen
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: yards or so from me, and he drops down to
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the lower trail to come out, and he walks by
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: me as closest across this table. And because they're big,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: you know, he's more than six and a half feet
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: at the shoulder. So we're right there together, and I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: got nowhere to go. You know, there's I can't climb
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: this bank, can't run out that way, can't run that way.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: And as a rhino, sorry, I don't even know, as
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: a rhino known to like cause problems with humans, like
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, oh yeah, they killed several people there, yes,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: there where we were hunting. They had they had killed
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: several including one of the game rangers had been killed
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: by one stomping on him, goring him, stomping on him.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Most of they just hitch you and toss you around
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: a little, which is enough, you know, can can you?
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I want to also want to back way up and
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: talk about when you were a kid, But um, before
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I do that, you mentioned and being de horned. At
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: some point someone tranquilized them and cut can you can
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: you explain what you're explaining to me last night when
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: we're having dinner about the deal with the deal with
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: rhinos that can't breed. Yeah, the whole thing with rhinos
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: is that they will live. The bulls will live uh
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: way past their breeding age, but they will hold a territory. Now,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: years ago, when there was all of Africa to rom
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: there's no problem bush, I'll find new territory. But now
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: there's people everywhere, a little islands of animals scattered around Africa,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: so they have a limited habitat. So unless you go
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: take these old bulls off, the younger bulls can't establish
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: a territory. If they have no territory, they will not breede.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Territory pretty big, so they have to have a lot
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: of area. And as long as that dominant bull is
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: holding the territory, nobody gets to breathe. If he's past
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: his breeding age, does he still think he can breede?
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: He's just shooting blanks or no, Yeah he should be.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: He's still shooting blanks. Yeah, he's he's now sterile at
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: him and he will live another ten or twelve years
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: holding that territory. So no breeding is going to go
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: on in that territory that he controls. So one way
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: around that has cut his horn off and he can't
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: defend it as well. Uh No, they cut it off.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: They cut the horns off. Keep the poachers from killing
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: him doesn't work. The poachers will kill him for nub
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: of a horn. You have to keep cutting it off,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: just right down to skin level. And even if it's
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: cut down the skin level, they followed up, find a
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: d hornman, they shoot it so they never ever have
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: to track it again. Yeah, So the poachers are a
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: major problem, and that's one of the nice things with
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: the hunting programming there is that the rhinos are so
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: expensive to hunt. They have a huge monetary value. So
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: that monetary value is both to the people that are
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: on the land because a portion of that money if
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: you're hunting on one of the camp fire areas something
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: like that, it's going to the local population, and of
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: course the meat's gonna all go to them too, Or
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: if it's a private landowner, which a lot of them
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: are on private ranches and so forth, it's a huge
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: amount of money to him. So they actually hire game
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: scouts out of their own pocket to go out and
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: try to keep the poachers under control. But if that
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: animal didn't have that economic value, they're not gonna lay
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: out all that money to hire game scouts to go
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: out and try to control the poachers. You've you've eaten
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: rhino and hippopotamus, and yeah, does all look like dear meat? Like,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: what's it looks like? No? Actually, the the white rhino
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: is a grazer. He eats only grass, and uh and
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the hippo same thing. They're they're both grazers and it's
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: very much like a range beef, grass fed beef. It's
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: very very similar meat and excellent meat, excellent eating. Uh.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: You also mentioned I stay with that. We were talking
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: about bullfrog hunting. Yeah, and you said you grew up
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: poor hunted for me? What was that all about? Like,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: what were the circumstances and you're growing up? Well, you know,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: my brother and I we we just thought it was
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: great fun. But uh, we were basically feeding the family
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: and you just didn't realize it. So we hunted all
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: the time, and uh dad was he was an r
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: rifle instructor and so we you know, I shot competition
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: in my first match when I was five years old,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: and he used to when we were small. And I've
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: actually still got the twenty two five twenty one t
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Remington's real small little match rifle. Uh. He gives us
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: one shell and you go out. If you kill something,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: bring it back in and have another shell. You can
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: hunt all day. The first time you miss your through
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: for today, you can go back tomorrow start all over again.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: What would you guys hunt for anything that moved? Uh?
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Where where was that? Where did you go? East Texas?
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: East Texas? Ye? Yep? And you and you started in
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: on bow hunt early. Yeah really, I mean like both
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: early in terms of your age, but also early in
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: terms of oh yeah, bo hunt. My dad always talked like,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: you know, he started bowl hunting in the fifties, you know,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: and there weren't even both seasons and stuff. Yeah, there weren't.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: There weren't any special both seasons early on. And there
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: were only two of us in the whole county that
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: uh they shot a bow many and the guy enterup
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: hunting with he was a World War two that named
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: James Hayes. And uh, we could shoot a bull frog
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: and get a picture on front page of the paper.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I mean big picture. It's a big time and because
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: people are just unfamiliar with it. Oh yeah, and we
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: did a lot of armor calling and stuff, and uh
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: James shot a bobcat one night, and lord, it took
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: up the whole front of the front page of the
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: paper stories about because a lot of people didn't know
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: we had bobcasts in these Texas. So it was great fun.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: And then uh, we'd come down and we deer hunt.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: And then when they did get a deer season going, Um,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Bob Lee had a lease that he established the first
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: bow hunting only lease in Texas if Wheelock, and we
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: hunted on that lease there with with Bob Lee. When
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: we see the first establishment, they were like the first
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: guys that thought to go pay for hunting excess. No, no,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: people paid before that. But it was a lot cheaper
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: than it is now. I mean when I was because
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: you could go back in time and and and rubbed
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: that guy out. Yeah, when I was about maybe it
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: would never become a thing. Yeah, seven or eight years old.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: We would come down to this area Rock Springs, Lanto,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Marble Falls all through there. Our lease year round lease
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: was ten dollars. So we'd come down, we'd fished, we
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: squirrel hunt, we turkey hunt, so that that was a
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: whole year round lease was ten dollars. Uh, So it's
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: changed a good bit. Now. Even back then, were you
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: interested in uh? I mean, I'm sure you were interested,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: But when when did you first start getting interesting like
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: tinkering with well, I'm taking with Archer equipment. Oh what
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: really got me interested in it was when Howard Hall
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: made the movie Timber. He toured the United States doing
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: going to schools, doing shooting exhibitions to let people know
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: there's the movie in town. And I got to see
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Howard Hills shoot and uh, things that wouldn't let you
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: do now, you know. We're all on the auditorium there,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: and and the opening thing was the targets up on
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: the stage and he comes through the doors the back
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: and shooting airs over everybody's head into the target up
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: on stage. And that was back in the day where
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: he'd have assistance, you know, whole stuff and shoot it
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: out of their hands and put it on the head
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: and shoot it off their head. So they would go
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: nuts for stuff like that. Now, wasn't it Burrows? William?
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Was it William Burrows that shot his wife trying to
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: shoot Apple's off her head? Oh goodness, I do not
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: now know. Tropical tropic of cancer and tropic capricorn author,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: wasn't that hill they got the drink in one night?
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: H So that guy like his big deal was he
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: went he was the first guy to shoot up I
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: don't know about the first see that's the weird part
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: about it, Like the first guy to shoot an elephant
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: with a bow. But there's research now that suggests that
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: the bowl had been invented. Oh perhaps you know, I
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: know they say the bow and arrow was invented multiple
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: times around the world, correct, like independently, but perhaps away
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: long time agoing after was somebody probably killed some yeah, yeah,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: and you do have you know tribes there uh in
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: East Africa that like the Hogsa and so forth, uh
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: As they hunt with poison eras. But historically there's four
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: back of people to remember, uh. They would build these
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: deep cuts into the banks going down to the rivers
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: so that hippo and elephant could go down there and
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: they could stand above of them and shoot them as
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: they came through these cuts. And and who knows how
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: far backs that goes. And with poison arrors, it's poison
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: arrors sometimes you know, it might take them forty eight
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: hours to die, but they fought just following the animals.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: He dies Yeah, there's an old documentary I've seen. You've
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: probably seen it where these these boys go out and
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: uh stick a draft with a poison arrow. And the
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: documentary a friend of mine was, she's an anthropologist that
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: she was doing work in African She sent this thing
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: to me um and they just spent a couple of
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: days trailing after it eventually gets pretty sick. Yeah, that's
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: basically what they did. Kind of stands there, sweating and
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: convulsion and whatnot, and they can finally go on and
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: kill it, but they stuck with it for days. Well,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that's why you have great, great trackers. And of course
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: the best trackers that are laughter probably probably the Bushman
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: and the Hodza, these tribes that hunt with with the
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: poison arress. Uh. There's not a lot of great trackers
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: left in Africa. There's some. They would be great by
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: our standards, because very few people in this country can
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: track anything. They have trouble tracking something through the snow.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: It's really pretty sad. But some of the I've had
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to work with some trackers that were just unbelievable, uh,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: that literally could track animals across what looked like bare rock.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: I'm a pretty fair tracker. But they would they would
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: draw a circle, says right here, and they would explain
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: what they're seeing, and I still couldn't see it. And
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not a bad tracker. Uh, some of them are.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Just it seems super human, it really does. But there's
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: not many of those trackers left. Did you get into
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: medical school through the military? Drafted? I was drafted in
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: the last draft we ever had, the United States Special
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Draft called forty four. All the medical people. Yeah, that
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: one of the one when they started drawing numbers and
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: it matches up to your last name and whatnot ever
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: won in my life was a draft lottery and they
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: so they drafted you. But you were already a med student.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: I was already out of school. Oh I got you. Yeah,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I was deferred from the draft while you're in school
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: and then got out. Okay your numbers up? Yeah? Did that?
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Did all that knowledge of anatomy and everything? Uh? That
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: you were trained and when you're in school did that all?
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Do you think that that led you to start becoming
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: interested in air lethality? Uh? No, I was always interested.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: You know, we were a hunting family, and common topics
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: would be terminal ballistics of cartridges and bullets and things
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: like that. And even from the very start, we'd shoot
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: an animal and um, you know, Dad warned us to
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: dissect it to see what the bullet did, recover the
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: bullet we possibly could, and so forth. And I got
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: into bow hunting, and uh, I didn't think a whole
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: lot about it really until I've been hunting twenty five
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: years or so, and all with traditional equipment, and I decided, okay,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: it's about nine eighty, I'm gonna get a compound. Now,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: you know, everybody's going the compounds and the amount of
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: improvement you had in the bow and how accurate you
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: could be with it and everything. So I read what
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: I could find new magazines and this that bought into it.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Whole hall got uh it was a garden uh compound
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: and you got some light errors and some multi blade
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: replaceable blade broad heads. So they had those even in
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty. Oh yeah, they had a placeable broadheads are
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: already replaceable blade heads were oh yeah, very common then. Yeah,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: And was trying to remember like some of the ones,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, thunderheads, remember having a thunderhead and what was
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: the one hit six blades? Razor back had five and
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: like that plastic Yeah, I had kind of that plastic
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: combing wing on the front. Fake, I interjected, just real quick,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: it'll drive my dad nuts if we don't introduce our
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: other two guests real quick. Sure, you just introduce yourself,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: tell us what you do. Go ahead. Second, Todd Smith,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I'm with Grizzly Stick Garrett Sleef, owner a Grizzly Stick Arrows,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: and we've been working with Doc on his research for
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: a long time years, So we're starting with your dad,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: starting back with two generations of working on this stuff.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: And we were kind of the first guys to really
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: look at what he was brilliant and then try to
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: build equipment following what what he was doing. So we
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: didn't really have a roadmap. It was just more of yeah,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: and we were learning news. We went well, I mean
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: we were still learning lots of it. We've learned lots.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: There's still a lot of unanswered questions. Yep. Thank you
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: appreciated it. Yep. So when do you uh was your
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: first was that deal when you went to shoot the
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: rhino in South Africa? Was toying with getting uh? Both season? Yeah?
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: What year were they thinking about doing that? And they
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: ultimately did it right, we went eight four and eighty five.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't say a bow season they're gonna legalize, Yeah,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: but the I mean, it's it's surprising to me that
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: they even had at that time. A lot of countries
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: in Africa probably didn't. They probably hadn't prohibited it because
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: they didn't have that you could legally hunt. Were places
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: that were signing on on ways and means there's the
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: only place you could legally bow hunt. That law in
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: South Africa was the first affirmative bow winting law in
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Africa in si So prior to that, prior they had
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: spelled out what leader was no place that it set
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: is legal to bow hunt. So if you want, if
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: you look at look at those early hunts that everybody did,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: like Bob Swinehard and Howard Hill. Uh they did him
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: up in Kenya which was still open then Uh, Tanzania
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: and Mozambi all places that were silent. That's where like
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: the adeladdle crowd drifts off to Alaska. Yeah, or that
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: dude that wanted to kill a barrow the spear like
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: she went somewhere in the Mississippi. Then after they did that,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: they clarified it that in fact, you can't kill a
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: barrow to spear and yeah, yeah, I got you. So
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: South Africa was the first place in Africa to decide
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: to do after we did all decide, presented it all
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: to the parks board. Uh, they legalized bow hunting and
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: then it's just Domino, you know. Then it was Zimbabwe
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: and it was Zambia and it wasn't a maybe. Uh
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: and it just went on and on because they were
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: afraid of lose in business. So yeah, well once they say, hey,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: you know these people getting this bow hunting money in,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: so you know they're making foreign you know, for X
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: is coming in. Uh, let's get on the bandwagon here
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: and get some of this. When you earlier mentioned getting
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: into compound bows and you said, like you bought into
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: you bought into all that, bought into all? What to
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the light fast arass you know? And U what I
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: had beamons, remember little skinny beamons, And that year I
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: hit and lost four deer. I had never done that,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: So I said, something's wrong. So I did what I
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: would have done with a rifle. I said, you know,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: unless research, somebody who's got to research what works what
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: doesn't other than just reading a magazine and seeing what
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: you know, the companies are advertising and stuff is being pushed.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: So I was looking for stuff like Chamberlain's work with
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: rifles and you know, some some honest research. Nothing, it
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: didn't exist. So I decided, okay, I'm gonna have to
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: find out for myself. And now this was about you know,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: early ages before the Tall thing came up. So I
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: was already started doing stuff and looking at what was
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: happening before the the Tall thing. Well, when the Tall
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: thing just really kicked started me. Now I had a database.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, we had to really collect data to do
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: these reports for the Tall Parks Board. Well the time
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: we did than the Tall study, I had more questions
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: than I did when I started that. And I found
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: that all the way through twenty six years of research
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: is every time I do and you set a test,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I end up with a new set of questions of
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: things to look at, and I'm still not through. That's
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: why we established the foundation because after I hurt my back,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: I can't do anymore. Uh So somebody had to take over.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: And you're not gonna find any idiots like me. I
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: did all of eye out of my own pocket. Every era,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: every Broadhead, every feather, everything was purchased by myself. I
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: won't to stay independent of the archery industry. Wish we
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: still do. We do not take donations from archery companies
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: things like that. Yeah, noticing on your boy's website, the
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Grizzly Stick website, there's a note on the bottom that says, uh,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: because you have an asked me Broadhead yep, but a
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: note on the bomb says you won't take any money
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: from that Broadhead. Nope, not even a little bit. Nope.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: That was hard. That was part of the agreement. That
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: was everybody, I wouldn't use my name on it. Yeah,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: and I'm not that smart, but I got I'm like,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: that sounds like a pretty good deal. Yeah. The other
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: covenants on there was not at all. The other covenant was,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: when we do the testing, if the Broadhead works, you
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: pull use my name on it YEA, with a disclaimer
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: that I don't receive any funds out at it. Because
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: unless you stay totally independent of industry, your research is tainted.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: And there's a lot of stuff out there, a lot
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: of wound lost studies that were financed by the archery
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: industry that come up with these incredibly low wounding rates
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: by archery standards. They're showing. All of the studies that
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: were independently done by game departments all show almost a
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: one to one race. I would say, I would say
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: it with and I would say with Elkin America, I
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: definitely say that that's the case. I think it is
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: just about everything. And I guided while I was in Africa.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: I did quiet particularly there's bow hunters. I'm sort of
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: a freelance guide, so you know, if they had too
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: many clients, I would go in or if they had
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: bow hunting clients because there was almost nobody over there
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: and anything about bow hunting that I would go in
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: and work with whoever with their bow hunting clients. And
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I would say it's definitely it least one to one
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: in Africa, whether the equipment that people were bringing and using.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Yet you can cut it down to almost nothing as
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: I got towards the better error systems. UH. Out of
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: the last twenty five years where I have actual records
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: tracking the animals that I've killed, there's six hundred and
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: twenty seven animals, four lost animals four. I get that,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: but like it has so much to do with ask
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: your question about consistency, Yanni, because it has so much
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: to do with like, did you punch a hole through
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: its heart? Like if you're if you're a very good
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: archer taking very close shots, you're gonna have a very
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: high recovery rate. You can't really always do that. I
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: was a ground hunter. I've shot a few animals out
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: of tree stands up, but very few stalker. Now, stalkers
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily get set up shots. Now, my whole goal
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: from the get go was to find the most effective
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: error system you could possibly use, because a lot of
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: the shots I took were shots that they're not broadside shots,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: you know, they're long quartering shots facing you, shots moving animals,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: you know. I used to when I was a kid.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, we shot a lot of moving targets. Animals
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: just as big moving as he is standing still. Target
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: size is still the same. So I didn't have too
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: much trouble at all shooting moving animals. Now. We used
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: to do a lot of bird hunting and stuff flying birds. Uh, weller,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: both didn't hit a lot of them. It's got a
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: lot of practice running rabbits in front of dogs, and
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: you can get pretty good on running shots, good enough
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: to shoot big animals. A big animal actually gets pretty
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: easy after you, you know, practice on stuff like that.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Nobody does that kind of stuff anymore, um. And you know,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: there were some things in there that I didn't have,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of animals that were gut shots. I've never
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: lost a gut shot as I got into these better
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: era setups. But a lot of that's careful management of
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: after the shot, of leaving it long enough, of stalking
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: the trail, you know, and and not spooking just like
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: you're hunting the animal again to find it. And most
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: of the time, if you give them eight, ten, twelve hours,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: they're dead. Um. As a matter of fact, I don't
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: think I've ever had one go beyond about a hundred
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: and sixty yards when I didn't pursue him. He feels bad,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: he lays down, You give him time, and he will
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: bleed out. There's a lot of think of your digestive system.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: There is a lot of blood vessels in there carrying
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: away all this digestive food, nutrients and so forth. And
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: the single bevel heads that rotate actually will wind intestines
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: up around them, and you get a thing called a
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: starbursts cut. Now, I didn't know this. TI was doing
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of the research. But you'll get cuts that
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: are five or six inches away from the path where
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: the air went through, where it's wound stuff up around
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: it and made all these little cuts. And I was
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: doing that by taking die in a syringe and injecting
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: it into the intestines and looking at them where the
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: dye is coming out, And so you get these huge
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: starbursts cuts in mobile tissues, and you get some of
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: that effect even in lung tissues, where it just almost
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: liquefies the lungs just MUSHes it up. And I've got
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of photos of dear that you will look
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: at and think they were shot with a rifle because
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: of the amount of blood shot tissue. You do not
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: get that with double bevel heads. Let's save the double
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: and single bevel you you want to get into that
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: right now. I want to get into grains, all right,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: explain that you are we there? Yeah? Have we covered
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: off on enough of like how we how doc did
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: the studies? No? Okay? But for people that aren't real
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: familiar with aero setups, that's true. I think that when
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: he's talking about aero setups, I think people need to
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: know what he's talking About's true, that's true. Um, it's
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: an arcane unit of measurement. But explain what a grain
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: is because we're gonna talk a lot about grains. Well,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: it is a unit of measure, and there's seven thousand
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: grains to a pound. What is that based off just
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: counting up powder grains? Well, I'm not counting grains, but
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: that's where the unit of measure works out. That's what
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: a grain is. Yeah, but it's got seven thousands of
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: a pounds. It's an English measure moment, it's got to
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: be something like some dude took a pound, some dude
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: took a pound of like granulated powder or something. No, no,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: it came from actual like seeds or whatever. I don't know. Yeah,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: I don't remember which one of the stage, but together
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: a unit, it came from like a foot about as
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: long as your foot. Yeah, So that's where all these
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: weird English stuff comes from. Is you know, what's the
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: cloth yard? What's the foot? What's the yard? Yeah? You
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: know there's a clay nucom our colleague. He's telling me
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: there's an old unit of measurement called the eel. How
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: it's spelled, and it's No, it's a deer neck. It's
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: a sack made out of it. It's a sack made
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: from a deer's neck. And you would and they would
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: put how you would sell tallo, you would sell tallow
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: in it, and it would be an eel. We're trying
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: to start a cryptocurrency called we're trying to start a
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: cryptocurrency called bear grease, and it's gonna trade and eels.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: That'd be good bear greacy, useful stuff. This. We got
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: a whole plan for this cryptocurrency. Man, it's gonna a
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: little bit point out of the water. Uh. Okay, So
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: seven thousand grains to a what can you give it
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: in like fractions of it converted to metric or or
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: don't you know how to do that? On top of
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: your head? Four hundred and what is it? Thirty something? Tom,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: It's something like that. It's four thirty something. Okay, I
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: can't remember exactly what point. Uh, let's say the point
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: being this, most broadheads today, most like when you go
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: online and buy broadheads, um, you'll hit a little drop
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: down menu and it's virtually certain that they're gonna be
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: available on one tens and hundred was if they got
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: to that'll be the two right, yeah, um, and those
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: are what I mean they're they're not an ounce fractions
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: of an ounce and then the arrow explain arrow weeight
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: like like like you're like, what would be the most
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: like currently day most guys going into their archery shop
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: and buying arrows for a contemporary compound set up or
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: buying arrows, and what would you say is three. It's
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: about where they're gonna be, and that is people maximizing speed. Well,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: speed has been pushed. Kinnetic energy has been pushed to
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: get connetic energy because the formulas squares the velocity. It
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: looks really good as sells speed cells. And the industry
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: has pushed this stuff since the nineteen fifties when the
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Allen compound first came out, and then the Jennings compound
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: and and those were the first of the compound bows
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: and uh, they were so much faster than traditional bows.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: And then as they got them faster and faster and faster.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: This is what people buy. I met a guy at
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: the archery range when it was out tuning Eras in
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Australia who had just bought a new bowl because this
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: new bowl was four ft per second faster than his
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: old boat. He spent on this boat to get four
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: ft per second m HM, which is not gonna make
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: a bit of difference. It is the error that kills.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: I'd be much happier to go out here and there's
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: no onld Indians. It's the arrow that kills, but it
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: doesn't kill land on the ground. You have to once
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: it's in fly. He didn't know what launched it care
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: like damn sure knows how fast it's going. It knows
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: how fast it's going and how much force has got,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't take as much as you think it
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: does to get it to perform. Still, it's still, it's
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: gonna be moving. It's gotta be moving. Moving one mile
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: an hour isn't gonna do it. So there's a point.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's an argument to be made for it
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: moving really fast. Well, there's a argument to be made
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: for not moving fast. It's moving at late speed. The
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: resistance quadruple as the speed doubles. Example is go down
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: the road at thirty miles an hour and stick your
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: hand out the wind and field of resistance. Now go
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: sixty and field of resistance. Now go ninety and field
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: of resistance it goes up as the square of the
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: velocity inquiries, so you get at ninety, you've got nine
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: times of resistance you have at thirty. One of the
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: things we're finding because we get all his data back
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: in from thousands of hunters over Buffalo shot now and
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: over a hundred elephants with these era setups, we're seeing
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: more passed through shots with bows sub seventy pound film
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: war with heavier draw eight bows. That's one of the
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: things we're gonna research. Something's happening. We don't know what,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: but there it's a significant difference in the number of
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: passed through shots. Is it the tissue resistance going up
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: at the higher veloss Like, is it more flexional in
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: the shaft on the shafts not stiff enough to handle
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: the impact at the higher force? You know what? What
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: is it? We got to find out that's less one
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: of the things on our list of research. Okay, Yanni
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: asked all about the research now. So man, there's a
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: lot of questions right now because I think you just
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: very quickly because numerous times now you've said, like the
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: arrow set ups that we're using now, So we sort
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: of Steve laid out what the what like a contemporary
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: you know in this crowd seems to be an insufficient
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: arrow set up. So explain what the what a sufficient
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: arrow set up is? Now that what we're talking about.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: And then also on the heels of that, tell me
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: when when all these other archers are sending in this
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: information and data points, I want to know, like, is
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: it just like a phone call and they're sort of
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: giving you, like the anecdotal story of what happened or
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: is it literally they have a form? Don't that they
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: fell out for you. I've tried having other people collect
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: form dat I was called out the forms and stuff,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: and you can't get people do it. It's a lot
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: of work. They just won't do it. It's just too much.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Pictures you get, pictures you get. We get a lot
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: of dissection pictures though people. I try to push that
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: if I could get every hunter, every bow hunter, to
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: just dissect the animals he shoots and look at what
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: has happened. But more importantly, if he ever get the
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: chance to dissect the unsuccessful shots to find out when
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: they want they fail, That's where you really learned something.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Successful shot didn't tell me much. But anytime there's an
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: unsuccessful shot, it gives you an opportunity to find out
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: what happened, why did it fail? And that's really where
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: you learn to develop these better error systems. If I
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: take what I like to call a penetration maximized ERA
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: and put it against what I would consider a good error,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: better than what most people are shooting today, I can
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: more than triple the penetration. That's fifteen inches and set
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: of five are thirty inches instead of ten. That's a
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: big difference penetration. We've got people out there with women
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: with with low forty pound compounds getting five and six
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: ft of penetration on things like eating on quartering shots.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: It's incredible. Explain the aerra set ups that they're using.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Those those ERA setups are very high FOC because most
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: of them are short drawals. Would would normally bet or
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: more with the ERA set ups that they're using. FOC
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: that's the weight forward the center and uh we actually
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: established munch those because traditionally you had you know, a
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: low FOC in a normal FOC, which was you know,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: eight or nine percent, and then a high one which
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: was fifteen and sometimes as much as eight. And as
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: I got into the research, I had to develop some
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: names for other stuff. So we went into extreme FOC,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: which is from nineteen on up to thirty and above
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: thirty we call ultra extreme. Now, the reason I come
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: up with those names was real quick to explain the
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: percentage of talking about that's how much the weight the
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: balance point of the area is full of the center
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: of the era, the physical center. Yeah, but how do
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: you I don't understand how it's reflected in percentages and
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: not is the is the percentage that it is forward
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: to the center, and then you count from the knock
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: to the front of the broadhood the shaf you can
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: use there. They are both methods are used, but the
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: AMO standard is from the throw to the knock to
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: the end of the shaft, does not include the head.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: About the overall set up you're talking about the erralf
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: I prefer that one because if you take the same
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: era and you put a field point on it and
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: a broad head on it, they're gonna be different links
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: and you're count with different FOC percentages. The FOC we
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: measure is a relative term, just like the static spine
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: of an era. It does not tell you much dynamically.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: FOC actually is an aeronautical term and it's how far
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: the center of gravity is from the center of pressure
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: of an object in flight. M hm. So we've just
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: used that picked it up an archery because it gives
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: us a rough idea. Now with it works the same
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: way with a plane. The higher the FOC with the plane,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: the more stable the plane is in flight, the harder
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: it is to turn the plane. The lower the foc,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: the more maneuverable it is. Well, which one do you
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: want your error? You want your error going all over
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: the place? Do you want it only if you have
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: a saying where it's going? You want possible? But now
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I like to listen to that analogy before and something
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: that I was listening to you speak, and yeah, it's
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: like a fighter jet. As the foc is very low
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: take F twenty two. Rafter can almost fly sideways. But
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: a human cannot fly it. He has to have a
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: computer to do it. It's that unstable. But you take
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: uh k C one thirty all that it has a
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: high weight forward as stable as can be. Probably can
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: sit there and turn loose of it for two or
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: three medicine talk to you it is that's the big difference,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: and that's one of the benefits of high foc in
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: an era. An era is always once it leaves the boat,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: it's always flying. The medium that it goes through changes
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: It flies through the air, it flies through the skin,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: and it flies through the audipose tissue, through the muscle,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: through the bone, all the way through. The animal is
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: still flying until it comes to stop. It's flying even
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: when it hits the dirt. As long as this movie
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: is still flying, it's just flying through dirt now, so
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: you have to get the concept of what it's doing.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: This stability carries on through the animal. This is where
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: it really makes a difference in terminal ballistics. To have
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: that high foc is we now have a very stable
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: era that is much more difficult to redirect. To have
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: hit a bone and glance off at an angle so
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: higher we get the foc. It makes a huge difference.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Now it makes no difference in the testing we have
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: so far, makes no difference as far as penetrating a
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: heavy bone. That depends totally on the weight of the
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: air how long he is able to push on the bone.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: But once it breaches the bone, the foc comes into play,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: and that's where you get a huge increase in post
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: breaching penetration the archery industry's reluctance to look at what
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: you have. You're divorced from the industry intentionally. Um, they're
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: coming around though, Yeah, but I mean are you how
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: were you making your own broadheads? And like, how are
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: you testing different setups that didn't exist if the archery
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: industry didn't produce them. Uh. The only single bevel was
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: out there was the Grizzly and I used a lot
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: of and that's not what they made is different when
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Harry Elberd used to make um and Uh, I mean
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: the way the different way arrows. How are you making those?
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: I was building them up, I was waiting the eras
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: there all sorts of different things like drilling them out
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: and filling them and stuff. Uh. Some I feel some
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: were double shafted eras. Uh, some internally footed eras. Uh.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: All sorts of ways to increase the weight on there.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: And uh yes, Uh in the early days, I made
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of the uh when they weren't available, steal inserts,
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: brass inserts, had people make them for me. Machinist. I'm
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: lon't good enough to make them. Uh, I see, but
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: that's what I was curious, Like so you had to
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: be You were testing things that didn't technically not didn't exist.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: You were testing things that weren't available on the market,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: right because I was finding as I would do a
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: test and I would say, Okay, we need to look
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: at this, and we need to look at this. Well,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: this isn't available for all that out of pocket. Everybody
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: at it, even having hardness. You get married, to have kids, uh,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: married twice, divorce twice. I learned what they think? What
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: do they think about all that arrowhead buying and all that? Uh,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I'm divorced twice. Probably How long did you stay married?
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: The longest thirteen years? Yeah, yeah, the next one was
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: three years. I got smarter factors. I just had my
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: thirteenth anniversary. Yeah. So you were saying that the current
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: the heavy aerosystems that you like high FOC. Can you
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: explained FOC, but then explain the rest of the aero system? Okay,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: there are actually if you look on our website, we'll
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: go through them in detail there Hunting Foundation. Yes, you
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: can go through the twelve factors that are there. We
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: also have all of the updates that we did through
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: the years. Now when people start reading those and there's
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of pages of them. They need to read
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: the whole thing because some of the things early on
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: that I look at the research and the data that
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: we had in sent low, you know, it indicates it
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: might be this, might be that. But we learned stuff
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: as we go along and things get better and better,
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: are better um as we as we do get more
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: information on it, so we would find these new things
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: that that need to be looked at. Man, that's just
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: what we had to do. And if we had to
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: build something, we built it. You know, it's just what
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: you did. The hardest part was coming up with shafty
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: no good shafts, and and the long process of every
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: era that we've used in the study is teamed uh
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: bear shaft team, every one of them. Because without that,
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: that's one of the high factors is you've got to
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: have structural integrity the era. That's the most important thing.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Without that, it doesn't matter if it flies perfect, where
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: do you hit the animal? Nothing. If that aer breaks
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: or part of it breaks when it hits the animal,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: every everything's lost. You've got no control over what's happening.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: You're probably gonna lose an animal. Uh. And then you
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: have to have perfect flight. Now those two things ever
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: ever change. So you got to go through all this
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: long tuning process for every error before you start testing it,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: or your testing is no good mm hmm. And then
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: you go down through all of the other factors, and
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: each factor they'll compound each other so that this factor
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: has a certain percentage gain and this factor has a
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: certain percentage gain. Well, if you've got one of them there,
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: you've got this game. When this game kicks in, it
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: takes in a portion of this game, so it keeps
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: adding up as you go to more and more factors. Two,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: if you want to get the most out of it,
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: you incorporate as many of the factors you can. But
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: the important thing is that anything you do out of
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: these factors to your error setup is gonna make it better.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: And you have twelve factors. Yeah, we have twelve factors
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: in there. Can you go through some of them? If
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: I get my note so out, I can, because we're
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: gonna do that later today, because I'll forget all their
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: ranking relative order. If you took in all shots together,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: the ranking will change under certain situations. For instance, the
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: heavy bone threshold is right at the bottom of the
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: list because it's not important unless you hit a heavy bone.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: But when you hit a heavy bone, it'll jump to
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: the number three position. And so there is some movement
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: in these things depending on the shot. That's why you incorporate.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: You don't know what's gonna happen on a shot. The
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: animal's gonna move, it's rare. We've got a lot of
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: video footage here in Texas shooting hogs and deer and stuff.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Uh compounds, fast compounds, slow compounds, traditional bones, so forth.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: We don't have a video of an animal that does
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: not move before the air gets there. And most of
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: these yards m hm. So if you look at it
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: in slow motion, the animals in motion, in motion, in motion,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: in response to the bow noise. Yes, and most of
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: the time it's a duck and roll away. Duck can
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: roll away from the source of the north from the source,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: but not always. Sometimes they'll completely reverse only sometimes they'll
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: actually turn into it. But there's always some movement going
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: on in there. Really, there's not a single video of
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: an animal not reacting at all. Now, only times I've
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: ever seen animals not react at all to the shot
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: was on a very long range shot. That's all been
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: small game varmint shooting, varmint calling that kind of stuff,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: uh where they might not hear, but we were going
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: to do more. I've done a little bit of research
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: looking at air noise, and you can quiet down an
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: air a lot by different types of fletching. And we've
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: worked out of fletching that we call an A and
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: a fleshing very small triangular shape. It will only work
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: with very high foc aras the higher you've got the
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: foc you now have a long rear steering arm on
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: the air, so it does not take much fletching to
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: overcome the wind share of the broad head. It's way
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: you bear shaft tuned. If it shoots perfectly, bear shafted,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: and then you put your broad head on there. The
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: only fletching you need is enough to overcome the wind
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: share under all wind conditions. So I tune that fleshing
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: just like I would anything else that I put the
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: broad head that this era is going to be used with,
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: and then I see how small I can go in
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: that fletching before I get unstable flight, and I go
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: back up slightly. We actually use the thing called a turbulator,
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: which is a little pin stripe thing that goes around
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: in front of the feathers out a quarter of an inch.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Feathers do work better than veins because they've they've got
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: higher drag and they're lighter. Gives us higher foc The
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: turbulator disrupts the laminar flow down the air shaft, which
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: creates increased pressure, just like wood on an airplane. They
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: use turbulators on airplanes too, uh, which will increase the
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: pressure on the small reflection and that has a much
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: lower sound effect. So we're gonna do a lot more
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: research for that. That's coming up. Because you think they're
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: responding to the sound of the approaching arrow or through
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: to take a big fletch and shoot it a rabbit
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: at about eighty yards, watching perk up and move where
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: the arrogance there? Oh, here's it coming. Yeah, So you
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: don't sound too dissimilar from a that's true and very
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: similar yep, and and so big fleshing it. Now. When
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: I first started hunting and it started into this research,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: he I had to use really large feathers because I
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: realized that at close range I had to get my
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: air out of paradox to get the penetration up. Because
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: I could shoot animals at yards a lot more penetration
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: that if I shot him in seven or eight yards,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: that's the paradox. The era is flexing, So you have
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: archer's paradox, and let me give it a shot and
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: then you can correct me. But basically as that your
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: bowstring starts to push your arrow. The arrow doesn't immediately
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: start moving at first flexus. Your arrow does this as
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: it's coming out of your boat, like it bends in
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: the sideways, um, you know, a half moon arc arc,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: and then as it leaves it does that the other direction,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: and then the other direction, and eventually it straightens out
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: and then flies completely straight. But the paradox is that
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: it's not that you think the closer it is the better. Well,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: the original paradox so weren't center shot bows, was that
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: in order to hit the target, it has to bend
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: around the boat. It has to not be pointed at
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: the target. But that's not a paradox, well it is.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: It's paradox that you don't point at it to be
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: able to hit it. Ah, there's the paradise. I was
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out where the paradox is. I thought
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: the paradox was you think really close is better. No, no, no,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: it's actually the fact that on an tradtional bow that
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: you know, and in some of the boats I used,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: have no self for that reason, let me use lighter
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: air shafts. When I was trying to get it high officially,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: and the arrows pointed off like this to shoot out there,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: I guess the rifleman's paradox would be that if you're
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: shooting at something at point blank range, you'd have to
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: account for the fact that you're cross there is an
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: inch and a half higher than you're essentially and a
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: half that's right. You'd have the line of sight and
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: the board access and somewhere out there they're gonna cross,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: and they're gonna cross again. I'm gonna douve the rifleman's
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: paradox trademarking because a lot of people don't know are
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: there's paradox. We also call it shot flex. Yeah, and
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: you get it again on impact. Now it's hit, the
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: front of the air has slowed down and the back
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: of the air is still trying to push it forward. Now,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: one of the things we found with the higher fo
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: cs is that they come out of paradox and you
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: shoot it much faster. Because it's lighter at the back end,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: and when you hit the animal, most of the weight
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: is up front. You've got a very stiff forward leaver
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: arm and the back of the shaft is very light.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: And because it's very light, it doesn't push his hard,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: it doesn't flex as much, and it stops flexing much faster.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: So that helps you get increased penetration because when that's
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: flexing going through the wound channel, just having to push
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: tissue every time it bends and goes through a bone.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Same thing he's trying to push against that moan and
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: that slows it down. Now, there's a couple of things
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: you can do to see that really easy. Uh. You
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: can take a dowe rod long your four or five
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: ft drill. You a hole on the board and put
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: it in there and get a rubber ball. Put the
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: rubber ball away at the back end and pull it
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: over the side and watch it go. There's like a metronome.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Takes forever to stop. Move it down about halfway, which
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: you're a little more than halfway like most eras are. No,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: you can go a long time. Put it right down
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: against the board and stops. The same thing happens with
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: an era. Now you can do that with ashual eras
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: by drilling up pretty good sized holes, say five eighths
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: of an inch or something, and take two errors, one
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: with a normal foc, one with a high effles, very
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: high effles. Put it in there so there is identical
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: except for the foc, same chef, size, everything about it.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: Pull it over to the side and turn it loose.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Time it with a stopwatch to drop through the hole.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: Now take the high foc when it goes take a
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: take a tu m hm. Same things happen when it
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: goes to the bone or a hole in the bone.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: Once you've placed to hold through there, they're very easy
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: to see. You guys even use a Doppler radar when
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: you're doing research. Yes, yes, we we have. Well, Daryl's
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: got one, so now we've got three. The foundation is
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: about too, and we've got a high speed camera on
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: the way. You might be here by now where I'll
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: just home. We'll find out where we can u a
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: genuine high speed camera, not a regular camera that's you know,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: shooting three or four hundred frames whatever, This is three
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: thousand frames a second. Well, how does the how does
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: the what do you do with the Doppler radar. Uh.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: It works like any other chronograph, but it will read
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: the ERA at at whatever range does you want to
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: set it for. So this reading is goes out so
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: you can shoot one ara by it and you can
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: read the launch velocity. You can read it at five
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: yards ten yards fifty out to where it will no
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: longer pick it up. Well, it'll pick these Doppler radar
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: like that. We'll pick up a thirty caliber rifle bullet
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: out to about seven yard words, so let'll take up
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: an ERA a long way out there. And we've just
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: started started doing some testing with those. Are you able
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: to test it coming in and going out with something?
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: That's why we're trying to work out a system to
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: do That's one of you've got multiple level because you're
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: gonna have to have one to read it going in
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: and one to read it coming out because the animals
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: going to be in the way. So we're trying to
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: work out a system to do that. Uh. So Darryl
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: and Troy are working on that now, trying to come
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: up with a methodology and uh having Darryl with us,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: who's a true I mean calling the rocket man, he's
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: true rocket scientists work for the government. All these worked
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: on rail guns and uh uh tank penetrating projectiles and
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: uh cruise missiles and all this kind of stuff that
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: you know for years. So he's very much into both
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: terminal ballistics, but more so probably into flight ballistics. Are
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: you gonna hit us with the twelve factors? Oh? I was, yeah,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: I will, Okay. The very first one to the first
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: four are are really ones about the only ones I
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: remember on the top of my head. The structural integrity
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: was talked about, which is an absolutely must have. That's
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: gonna always be number one. The second one is going
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: to be the air of flight. I talked about perfect
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: air of flight. You're going to have to have that.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: The next most important overall is the extreme foc that's
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: percentage wise going to give you the biggest gain in
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: penetration through soft tissues, postmone breaching, so forth. The next
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: one is the mechanical advantage of the Broadhead. Now Broadhead
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: has it's inclined planes. It's a series of inclined planes
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: on most Broadhead song got some other weird stuff stuck on.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: But the longer and narrower it is, the higher the
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: mechanical advantage is. And you can think of it like
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: wheelchair ramps. Wheelchair ramps are low and gradual because it's
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: easier to move a load from here to there. It
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: will do more work with the same applied force. That's
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: what mechanical advantage is. So if we get a broad
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: head that is a true three to one mechanical advantage,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: it will take the force of the era and multiplied
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: by factor of three, and if it's two to one,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: you're multiplying it by a factor of two. A lot
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: of broadheads are way down there, bow one on some
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: of them, so you're actually losing force from the mechanical
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: advantage of the broadhead. What's the shittiest broadhead being sold
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: out there? Most mechanicals, most mechanical, most mechanicals, Yeah, because
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: those things got some If I had my druthers, I
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: just just going by what you're saying. They have a
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: very low with their deploy that a very low mechanics
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: and also the force of deployment. And we also have
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: gauges that were now starting to use that, and we
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: use it in some of our demonstrations of letting people
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: take their own broadheads and and bring a hide and
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: let them push it through there. And we've actually got
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: a gauge you can put on there and you can
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: see the force required to push it through the hide.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: There's a thing called a trap pan trap Pantenson gauge.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: This essentially it's pressed down and measure your pay attention
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: and it's it's really uh graphic because we have had
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: people with heads that with all the force they could use,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: could not push them through the hide, and then they
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: take a good cut on contact a chisel tip, I
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: guess is is what's Yeah, A lot of the chisel
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: tips are tough like that are the calm tips Okay,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: hard to push through, very hard to push through. Uh,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: And a lot of the mechanicals very hard to push through.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: Got very that blind angle even when you get the
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: front part through trying to get him to deploy and
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: then trying to get them through there, and it takes
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: almost no force. With a good high mechanical advantage cut
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: on contact broadhead is sharp. You just push through one finger,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: it's no problem. And all of that force that you
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: say there of the era is forced you can apply
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: to more penetration. So you want to get through all
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: the tissues with the leash resistance you can which is
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: basically what we do with all the factors. We're looking
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: to maximize the force that the air carries with withever
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: factors in there. I want to get back to that list,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: but I just have but I have one to go ahead,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, you've gotten a bunch of ince. I think
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: you can let me have one, because can you tell
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: the story about or because you talk about penetration, some
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: people are gonna say, well, at what point is it
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: too much? Because if I go through you both sides,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: that's enough. But I read something where you were saying that, no,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: it's definitely better because of what the was it the
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: Royal Academy of veter Science. Yeah, and in Great Britain. Uh,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: they actually did some research for what reason, I don't
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: know own errors. I never did figure that out. But
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: if the shaft remains in, it impedes the hemorrhaging. If
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: it stays in and the animal is moving, it impedes
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: even more the hemorrhaging. But if it goes completely through,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: the shaft is out and the hemorrhaging is freer. And
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: one of the one of the things try for yourself.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: Get your zip block bag gallon size three quarters full
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: of water, get you some barbecue skewers going, stick the
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: skewers through. Look at the leak that's coming out. You know,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: start first, just stick on one side, stick it on
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: one side, then push them all the way through, both
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: sides still in there. Now pull the two out and
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: watch what happens. This is essentially what happened if you
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: go talk to any emergency room that hershing or leaking both. Yeah,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: because like for blood trailing, Yeah, for blood trailing, I
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: can see it's having Yeah, we notice it like it's
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: like it could still be bleeding internally. It's not doing
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: you any good on the ground. Don't having the projectile
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: in there impedes bleeding any just responders, emergency room physician.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: If you have an embedded object, the first thing they're
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: gonna tell you do is not removed. It should not
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: really removed until you have that patient in a setting
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: where you can control the increased hemorrhay gene that's going
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: to occur when you remove that. And that's exactly what
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: it'll say. You didn't look that one up on internet.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: That's easy to find, yeah, even internet. Yeah, yeah, Plus
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: you you know, if the error is gone completely through,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: it's now you have sucking, chest wound, collapse lungs. What
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: do you do when you've got somebody that does have
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: a penetrate shop with a bullet, what do you do?
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: You put a seal over there. You don't want to
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: collapse that lung. They've got to have that seal to
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: be able to breathe. So that's not what we will.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: We want him to die. We're not trying to keep
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: him alive. So you want that error to exit completely.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: And if they people talk about airror staying in and
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: moving around and causing all these lacerations and stuff, if
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: it goes for enough stick on the other side, it's
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: not gonna move around much. But even if it's in there,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: if they will dissect that animal, you don't see a
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: lot of that laceration. It doesn't happen. The tissues hold
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: it firm enough. And why we're talking about very mobile tissues.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: Lungs are very mobile, much like intestines and stuff. You
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: know they'll move because I think that's something if you
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: look at people have sort of accepted that, Yeah, if
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: you're broad as this at least in there and the
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: animals running around, it's moving and cutting and it's good
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: it is not there. If you dissect animals, you don't
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: do don't see this massive laceration. It's like in our
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: head we think it's doing that. Oh yeah, you see
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: the man that's gotta be cutting. Well he's moving too,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: but the tissue is holding it and so it's just
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: going this, just staying straight, not cutting. So it's just
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: not there. That's why I wish I could get people
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: to to dissect animals and look at it, and they
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: would start to learn some of this stuff. But most
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: people don't do it and got the animal and get
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: out of here, you know, and they very rarely looked at.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: Gun Hunters need to do that too, get an idea
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: how their bullets performed with a lot of crappy bullets
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: on the market too. I did a lot of terminal
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: ballistic research for Barnes bullets too, so I got quite
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: a background and in doing terminal bullists. Uh but any him,
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: we're on our list. Well okay, uh, well we're all
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: mechanical advantage. But one of the things that people don't
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: look at also is it's your edge. Bevel has a
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: mechanical advantage. This is also an incline plane. If you've
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: got a double bevel. It's like that the most commons
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: back up a little bit because I think already we've
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: probably maybe lost some listeners just to explain, like the
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: bevel and this angle, and and just like back it
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: up to just one oh one. So we were dude
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: off of knife blades and razor blades. Basically, most most
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: double bevel broadheads how much like a knife blade. Most
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: common angle is the same on both of them's twenty
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: five degrees on each side. You now have a fifty
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: degree cutting angle. When you get to a single bevel,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: one side is flat, you've got a bevel on the other.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: Now we've got some out there with twenty degrees. Now
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: we're we're testing some of those in Africa right now
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: to see if that'll hold up at twenty Now. I
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: worked originally the gritties. I god had about thirty five
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: degree I think, and I worked from different bevels, working
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: them down, and the lowest I can get to is
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: twenty five. Below twenty five the steel wasn't strong enough.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: It starts to roll the edge, So that was as
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: slow as low as you get. But those when you
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: get to twenty five degree bevel, you've got to see
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: row in twenty five. It is now twice as thin
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: as a double bevel broadhead. It's mechanical advantage is twice
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: as high. Now what does that mean for you? Okay,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: a blood vessel is touching it with the same amount
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: of pressure between the two edges. The single bevel, it's
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: going to slice twice as deep or twice as easily,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: whichever you want to look at it as that double bevel.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: Because it has a higher mechanical advantage. It does more
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: work with the same applied pressure. By definition, that's what
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: mechanically managed does. But you have to have steel of
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: a good enough quality for that edge to hold up.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: That's why a real premium single bevel head. You know,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: our hundred plus dollars for three heads, but as you
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: can at least reuse them. Look at the price of
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: UH five N express rifle cartridge. Now have four dollars
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: a box of twenty. You know, the broadhead is going
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: to be one of the least expensive things of your hunt.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: So it's old ara set up, you know, and white
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: people scrimp on the one thing that's going to come
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: in contact with the animal. I have never understood, but
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: they do it. But Basically, that's where mechanical advance and
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: it's just come in. I hope that's clear enough you
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: understand it. The people, most people really overlook the mechanical
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: advantage of the edge bettle. It's a big one. And
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: another thing is that we've talked about why I would
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: guess that right now, if we looked at just picked
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: a random ten arrowheads on the Internet, that the edge
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: bevel the angle might not even be listed under the
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: specific most of the times not It's probably not even
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: a thing that people even think about. But that's something
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: we tracked, and in the study, we tracked the edge
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: babble of every if it's got six blades, we're gonna
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: have the edge battle of all six blades listed there.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: You know, if it's got bleeder blades, four blade blader blades,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: sometimes they have different angles ground on them. So we've
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: got that all track. And that's one of the factors
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: you can look at. It's a's what difference does it make?
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: And the one thing that we found when we were
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: looking at single babble versus double bebble in absolute identical
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: profile broadheads on the same error that up is that
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: the single bevels will give you more penetration both in
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: soft tissue and drastically so in bone. Huge difference in
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: bone because the rotating single bevel will pop the bone.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: I think that we should, uh, you should explain the
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: how a single bevel uh like makes itself when it
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: hits an animal and bones when it when it's flat
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: on one side. Okay, well we'll put the bevel over here.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: If it's flat on one side and beveled on the other,
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: when you apply pressure to this side as it goes
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: through something, there's no pressure on this side, and it
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: castes the rotation. There you go. He's got a big
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: old plastic broadhead, but he's got a left bevel. That's
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: all right. Uh, it's going to press here but not here.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: And it's going to press here but not here. When
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: he says press here, he's pointing at the bevel of
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: the broadhead, not the flat edge. Yes, the torque generated
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: is going to be proportional to the amount if you
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: go talking about a bone, the amount of surface area
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: of the bevel in contact with the bone or any
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: given time. Now, there's also going to be a differential
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: by how wide the broadhead is. When you get a
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: very wide broadhead. You're putting a lot more stress on
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: the edge at any given bevel angle because you've got
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: a longer leaver arm coming out here torking. So it's
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: going to be more likely to roll that edge or
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: chipped the hedge or whatever it's going to do. Now,
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: if it's got to do one or the other, you
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: want to chip rather than roll. A chipped steel blade
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: is a whole lot sharper than a rolled edge rolled edge,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: and you can saw your hand with it. It's not
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: gonna cut anything, but that's where you get the torking effect.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: When you have a double bevel, you got even pressure
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: on both sides. When they hit a bone, it has
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: to push its waist straight through. Now, with a high
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: speed camera, we're gonna find out just how far it
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: goes into the bone before it pops it with that torque.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: M hmm. Yeah, I think it's happening very quickly. I
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: don't know that, but we're going to find out. Can
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: I tell you something. I was reading the thing one
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: time where a guy was just you holding that thing,
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: the single bevel, talking about that. I was reading a
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: thing where a guy was writing a paper on what
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: he believed the prevalency of left handedness was among Folsome hunters,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: based on resharpened Falsome point that they assumed we're hafted,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: and that he was working with his left holding the
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: half of his right hand and working with the left,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: and I think they found that they were had a
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: higher prevalency of I think this guy suggests I had
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: a higher prevalency of left handedness at least a months
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: on the hunters believe people. It's interesting anyway, that gives
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: you a good idea what we're talking about with the
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: torqu generator. What number one right now? Uh, we're still
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: number four mechanical advantage. Oh you got all that rolled
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: under mechanical advantage. That's like ABC. Well it's not necessarily
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: with the torque that would come down generaly further where
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: we talked about the type of edge babbove But okay, five,
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: it's the shaft diameter to feral diameter ratio right there,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: because chaft goes into the broadhead. If it's like this, smaller,
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: you gain about ten penetration as opposed to be even
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: if the shaft is bigger, you lose penetration. What he's
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: sawing about about is the the drag. Yeah, like if
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: you run your hand from a aft downe of the broadhad,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: you definitely don't want it to drop off at the broadhead.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: Well that's further down the list too, But yes, broadhead
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: profile error profile is important. But that's the important one
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: to have right there, and we're going to do more
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: research on. But in what the data we have now,
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to increase very much in penetration once
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: you're about five smaller than the broadhead feral hm. But
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: we've got a lot more skinny shafts to work with now,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: so we may code with something new as we do
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: the newer testing and and find out that okay, going down,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: the more you might gain some more penetration. And why
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: why I'm guessing is just that the broadhead has created
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: a bigger channel than the arrow needs to go just
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: pure drag. If if you look at this coming down
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: and having to bump up over an errow shaft, now
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: it's going to have more pressure against this tissue and
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: shaft profiles on there too. As we look at shaft profiles.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: If you have a barrel taper shaft, then you can
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: go and buy a barrel tapertechularly in wood ares and
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: traditional areas. Yes, they're very common and being used for
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: centuries and for various things. But it'll it'll be on
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: one diameter here then gets bigger towards the metal than
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: tapers at the back. Those will have the lowest penetration.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: If you took identical eras for everything's up the shaft profile,
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: same weight, same broad head, shopping the same bowl, shoot
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: each one fifty times and and look at the averages,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: You're you're going to lose u significant amount of penetration.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: The highest penetrating is the taper shaft. The taper shaft,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: the further it gets in in the drag of the
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: shaft drops. Now you have to remember too when it's
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: why you can't. I haven't been able to find artificial
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: mediums that worked well because you're shooting that era through
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: a blood in an animal, through a blood suffused environment,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: which lubricates you. You know how slick blood is, you
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: had blood on your hands, Try to hold your knife
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: handle when you're gutting an animal, and it actually has
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: a lubricating effect, which is another reason we do our testing.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: Within thirty minutes of putting the animal down. Not only
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: for changing the tissue rigged mortis, but blood will start
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: to coagulate. You no longer have a bleeding when you
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: shoot them. When they're fresh put down, you still have
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: some blood coming out of the tissues you have. You
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: guys into a guy that sent in this thing about
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: how he was in a He has a cadaver lab,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: or was in a cadaver lab. Human cadaver lab. They
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: pump beef blood through cadavers to keep them. I don't know, yeah,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: freshened up. You could apply that you started. He's a
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: lab guy there. I do feel stuff. They even do
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: it at tempt so they use souvied warm beef blood
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: and roll it through cadavers, keeping and fresh. He's making
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: note that transfer knowledge, transfer a knowledge right there, if
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: the rifleman's paradox doesn't work out, yelled Pat, and that okay,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: what number you know? Okay? With number six? Aerra masks
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: the physical airra weight, and that's a real simple one
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: from physics. The heavy or something is the longer it
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: takes to stop period and as all, it will also
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: gave more energy from your boat. I don't care what
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: kind of boat you shoot. If you put a heavier
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: air on there. It's going to happen. It won't be big,
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: but it's going to have an increase in kinetic energy transfer,
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: which is the proper use of kinetic energy, not what
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: the ARA does from the bow into the era, because
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: all of the noise and the sound of the vibration
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: you get with a light era, the heavier area you
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: go to, the more it diminishes. Now I haven't gone all.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: I've gone up to about six grain eras, and it's
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: still showing that you're still seeing a small kinetic energy
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: gain as you go to the heavier eras. Out of
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: any given boat, compound recurves long bows, doesn't matter, works
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: with all of them, and that ERA mass is going
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: to carry this additional force that it has received from
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: the bowl. And what we're doing with all these factors
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: is trying to maximize the conservation of this force the
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: era has derived from the bow to be able to
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: apply it to the animal when it hit. Because this
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: is the endpoint. This is what really matters, is the
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: terminal ballistics. And you know, kinetic energy tells you how
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: hard something it um, It doesn't tell you the forward
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: motion of it. It doesn't kinnectic energy doesn't have a direction.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: Sound is kinetic energy. Vibration, the shaft is the wiggling
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: of the shaft, the resistance of it against the air,
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: the paradox. These are all part of kinetic energy. They
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: have nothing to do with penetration, because penetration is directional force,
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: and that's what you get with momentum. Momentum does have
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: a direction, and momentum has to be met by an
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: equal force of resistance before it stops. So the more
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: momentum you can put into that era, which is mass
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: times velocity, not velocity squared, and not all of the
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: momentum is force, penetration is concern works out equal. The
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: more of that momentum that is invested in the mass
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: of the era, the more outcome penetration you're going to have.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: Because the mass of the air is not going to change,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: the velocity is going to decreases, it penetrates, but a
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: significant portion of that momentum is invested in the weight
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: of the air, and that weight of the error is
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: going to carry all the way till it stops. So
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: even as that slows down, is still carrying more momentum
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: right up to the end, and that's why a bowling
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: ball carries a lot more momentum than baseball's next one. Yeah. Now,
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: if you're talking connectic energy is one of my things
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: I get off on because there are places that have
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: applied kinnectic energy as a standard for hunting animals and
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: it is not aptical. I'm sorry, it does not apply
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: to take a baseball picture. That get a Major League
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: baseball picture in pitch ninety six miles an hour with
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: a softball. If you look at the laws, they where
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: they applied it to Cape Buffalo, that's legal hunt Cape
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: Buffalo with that's enough kinetic energy. They don't penetrate worth
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: a damn on a Cape Buffalo. It'll make him real
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: mad and probably get your pounder in the ground. Oh,
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: I got what you're saying. You're saying that kinetic energy
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: picture could take a baseball and get the right amount
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: of Connecticut more than enough. He's legal. He's legal, he's illegal.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: I got what you're saying. Yeah, And that's one of
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: the things the industry has applied for years. Because that
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: have speed cell, they push kinetic energy because okay, we
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: get this error going faster, we've got more kinetic energy. Wow.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: And Okay, you need this amount of kinetic energy. Now,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: look at all the things where you can see on
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: the internet where they tell you you need this much
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: kinetic energy for hunting amount an elk, and this much
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: front to deer, this much fronting the black bear. Show me.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: One that tells you is that launch connetic energy or
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: kinetic energy to impact? Nobody ever says down our study,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: we tracked the momentum and the connectic energy at impact
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: as well as it launch. It's the impact one that counts,
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: and that's one thing that that heavier error is going
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: to carry out. There is that increased momentum to give
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: you the penetration you need. And that's why eerroweights imported.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: Next factor seven we're up for seven now is the
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: edge finish. We did some testing where we took multiple
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: layers of fresh buffalo hide, which is about an inch thick.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: Talking like buffalo buffalo, Asian buffalo. Any of the buffalo
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: Asian buffalo actually have a heavier hide across the shoulders
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: and chest area. Then they're actually a tougher animal. In
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: kate buffalo, bigger, bigger heart by full kg. But we
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: made multiple layers of this and took a series of errors,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: and we we sharpened them by different methods. You're talking
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: like you was taking green high, green high, fresh green
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: high and sandwiching them, sandwiched them together, hung them up
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: truck to pull them up. I mean they're heavy, and
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: we would shoot them with these ferrets with the edge
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: sharpened by different methods. And then we compared for each
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: era individually. It's performance against itself with a different edge finish.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: And the worst edge is the old Howard Hills serrated
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: edge where you take a file and drag it back
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: across the broad head and you make all these little
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: look like salt teeth. Run the file lately down wants
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: to make a point forward because the first thing it
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: does is load up with tissue and then it won't
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: cut nothing, nothing at all. File sharpened edges were better,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: but they still do the same thing. My christophey, that
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: they've still got I don't care how smooth you file it.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: It's still got these little rough areas if you look
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: at it, their high magnification, and they do the same thing.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: They load up with fibers and they get dull a
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: honed and stopped edge as thin and smooth and sharp
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: as you can get it is your best edge, the
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: thinnest so forth for that mechanical advantage we're talking about earlier,
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: but honed and stropped where it is just there's not
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: a rough place on it, not catching anything, not catching it.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: And actually once you get good at sharpening, as you
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: get them that that finish, they actually feel less sharp.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: They're so smart they no longer will great gripped your tissue,
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: so they don't they feel like they actually start dulling,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: but they're not. They're actually getting sharper. And you know,
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: on the testing we sharpened every broadhead to that honed
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: and stripped left. Otherwise the testing is not not valid.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: Now some broad heads that come in the package and
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: say they're already factory sharp, well, we'll dress them that way,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: but then when we have to redo them, we'll have
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: to sharp them. And you know, and see what they do.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: That one you see fishhooks. The advertise is chemically sharpened.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you get all sorts of stuff. Would you
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: always buy that, man, I'm like, well that must be
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: prete damn sharp. Yeah. Would you say that most broadheads
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: coming out of the package are sharp enough? No, very
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: few in the world are sharpened, But there are a couple.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: There are a couple that are sharp enough, but not many.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: And you like them spit shined you leathers drop them?
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well not just. I use a horse hide strap,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: which is probably the best leather strop you can get
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: the rump the rump hide off the horse years ago.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: That used to be one leather. Yep, there's only one
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: factory in the world that makes it. A leather is
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: definitionally horse hide rump yep. Yep, no ship, only one place.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: The one factory in the world makes it in Chicago.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: It's the toughest leather in the world. And and I
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: used uh, I used double sided and and one one
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: side is uh finished with. I put polishing compoundering sixty
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: tho grid and the other side has nothing on it.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: It's just the hide sixty grid sixty thou grid. But
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: the other side that has nothing on it has been
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: sanded down with ten thousand grid sandpaper to poloshy so
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: that it's just a hard polished surface. And that punches
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: some buffalo hide that'll punch through some buffs with with
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: incredible difference in the penetration that you had. But it
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: was consistent with every error. It didn't matter. For it's
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: a three blade, four blade, whatever kind of head we used,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: the hone is dropped always penetrated the most, The file
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: sharpened always was second, and the hill ones were always last.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: With all these different kinds of broad heads and different
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: errors and different weight errors, but every error is compared
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: only back to self, not to all the other errors.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: So it was strictly sharpening method that made the difference
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: in penetration. I got a problem right now. So we're
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: on seven. This is great, and I want to open
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: up a real can of worms. But I want you
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: to I want you to not take de bait too much.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: So like set a timer because we were going to
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: get into this heavy duty but we're not gonna be
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: able to work. I'm too I like the list too much. Now.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: Yanni was mentioned to me. I didn't know this. He
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: was mentioned to me that you've spent time in Papua
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: New Guinea. Yes, research and arrows. Yes. And I just
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: want to bring up one anecdote, Okay, I just want
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: you to very quickly address um ancestral archery technology real quick.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: And the anecdote is this, you know the guy we
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: bought rush off of. Yeah, Alex that one of the
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: tsars his kid. I think it was his twenty second
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: birthday in eighteen seventy one, seventy two, his kid came
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: out and went on a buffalo hunt with Custer Yeah,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: and wild Bill Cody. Afterward. I believe it was a
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: I can't mamber if you Cheyenne. The guy went out
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: rode up alongside of buffalo bison, not a buffalo. Yeah,
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: I know. Okay, But if I said I was going
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: and if I said I was going to antelope hunting
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: and Wyoming, would you be like, boy, I'm very confused
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: right now, or would you know what I was talking about?
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: Buffalo gets to be a very contentious terms about buffalo testing,
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: they think, But I'm using it extremely intentionally. Uh What
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: was I getting at Buffalo? He wrote up beside it
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: and shotty, oh yeah, I once. Here's the funny store.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you real quick. When I was doing some
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: research one time, and I was with these guys from
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: the Buffalo Field Campaign, Okay, and these are like activists
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: who were working to prevent state slaughter of bison leaving
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: Yelsto National Park, but their organizations called the Buffalo Field Campaign.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: I'm standing there with the guy from the Buffalo Field campaign,
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: and here comes the pronghorn running by, and I say, oh,
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: there's an antelope. He goes, that's actually a prong horn. Yes,
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, here, organizations named wrong, there's like popular terminology, right.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: So a bison, the American bison, the American bison punches, uh,
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: punches a nail right through it and then presents the arrow.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: So pass through shop presents the arrow to whatever his
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: name was, okay, and brings it home. Um. In your
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: research of the planes bow archery tackle used in Papua
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: New Guinea, Clovis points, have you found um different cultures
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: that had uh? Have you found evidence of different cultures
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: that accidentally or intentionally we're applying things that you're now
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: impressed by? Have you found cultures that, man, how did
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: they not realize? I think a lot of this stuff
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: was known probably thousands of years ago, and we've lost
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: We're just rediscovering what people need. If you look at
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: Japanese eras, uh, you look at Chinese eras, these were
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: high foc eras. Look at the medieval war eras, high
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: foc eras, high mass. This stuff has been used all
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: all around New Guineas, and not just because the limitations
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: of the materials like evidence that there was like intentionally
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: like could have been different, but was intentionally the The
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: perfect example is New Guinea of intentional because I examined
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: archery equipment that was pre World War Two, no steel available.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: The points are made of hardwood. The bowls were made
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: of black palm. These are beautiful, graceful bowls would not
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: look out of place at a at a primitive archery
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: shoot now today. And the air shafts were much like
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: we would think of the diameter of an air shaft,
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: and the wooden points are quite long, made out of hardwood,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: but these eras were uh. I think the lowest that
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: I measured was about which should be altered. Extreme f
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: o z going up into the World War two comes
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: along and all of a sudden, there's rebar. There're steel now.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: All the points are made out of steel. They're huge,
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: looks like a spear. Well in order to use them,
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: they had to go to a big cane shaft. They
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: make these things. You know, they're five and a half
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: six ft long, these eras. But even with that big shaft,
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: these points weigh so much and we're talking to the light.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: Errors are on up three thousand and thirty five grains
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: and go up, you know, well above four thousand grain eras.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: They couldn't get it to tune. And they actually tune
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: their eras just like we do when we bear shaft,
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: the same process off of their traditional bows. So what
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: do they do? They change their entire bow. It is
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: no longer you know, long um beautiful black palm. It
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: is now seven and a half feet long. It's made
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: out of bamboo. It's about that wide. Why is it
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: that wide? If you put that era way over here,
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: paradox that chaft can be in an old lot more
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: in tune around to straight flight. But they build these
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: heavy aras, no two errors alike, because they're just hammering
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: them out. But they'll get up there and shoot that
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: era and do just like we do. They'll keep shortening
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: that shaft until it shoots straight. Now, they don't use
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: any fletching, but there foc on the post World War
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: two eras is even heavier. Most of those are above
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: foc That's why I didn't get away with shooting them
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: with no fletching whatsoever. Plus the factor not going very fast,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: which decreases the wind shear on the on the broadhead. Uh.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't have any way to measure the velocity. I
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: didn't have a chronograph there or anything like that. And
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: the bows both the pre World War two post World
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: War two. Uh, they said the pre World War two
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: bowls were about as heavy. And just pulling it, I
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: would say it's in the eighty pound range is the
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: typical boat um And the velocity I was the specter
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: is less than a hundred feet per second m hm.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: And they consider out to twenty five meters good shooting range.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: And these guys are deadly with him. What are they hunting?
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: Roosa deer and pigs? Those are the two commons. Roosa
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: deer live out in bald open country floodplains. The only
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: stalking youn do is just the role of the ground.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: And for whatever reason, they generally stalk three guys at
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: a time, but only one shoots. And I watched them
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: went out with one hunt and watched them from distance
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: with the blocktors, I probably wouldn't get enough stalker to
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: stay with them. And uh, they it's about a twenty
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: five yards shot the guy took. Now, they traditionally carry
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: three eras all three will be different and a blunt.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: And he took his heaviest era, which was about grains,
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: is the one he chose to shoot, and plump drives
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: this big head all the way sticking out the other
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: side of the atom. Of course, the shaft is great, big.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: It stops at the shaft but points long enough it's
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: coming out to the other side of the rooster. Dear. Yeah,
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: when and when docs saying the points long, he's like showing, yeah,
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: the short ones will be about a foot. Wellmber, those
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: boys in Guyana when they had the like the tape
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: year points yeah, I mean it's like, I don't know,
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: eleven twelve inches of hammered thin steel. And I asked
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: the guy. He had the best answer I've ever heard.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: I asked him he was one of the few that
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: spoke in English, and why he chose that are out
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: of his three because he was the heaviest area he
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: had and the best answers there was works best all right,
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: Number eight, Okay, the shaft profile, we actually touched him.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: We've talked about the parallel shaft, the taper shaft, and
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: the barrel taper shaft. That's what we're looking at. Their
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: Then the taper shaft works the best parallel shaft as
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: long as it's not bigger than the farrel works really well.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: It's probably the standard most people would go by. And
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: the barrel taper shaft is definitely the worst, no question
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: about it. And uh oh yeah, that's enough on that one.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: Then we talked about the broad head and an air
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: of silhouette, and we touched on that too. You want
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: the smoothest transition you can get. You don't want any lumps, bumps,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: spot wells, uh trash, abrupt transitions and stealth bomber other
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: than the step down you might get just back of
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: the farrel to the shaft. You do not want a
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: bump on that era if you can avoid it. Sometimes
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: you can't avoid it, like put that old turbulator on there.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: But that's a little We actually used model airplane pin
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: stripe that's about six minute wide, no maybe even smaller
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: than that, very narrow, just enough to disrupt that lambent
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: or airflow. You remember, remember delta broadheads from a long
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: time ago. I have a deer skull that's got one
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: of those rattling around inside the dad shot in the
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: shot the deer in the forehead, um it has serrated bleeders,
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: so it's got double beveled. But then they would put
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: little bleeders there and the bleeders are serrated. Uh, you
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: don't like that profile because that's that's a double sin,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: right said. So it made it past that because they
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: had a heck of a bump. Yeah no, it's it's
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: rattling around and it's awesome. Yeah, Well, I prob they
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: had They knew where a deer was feeding alongside a
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: road and it was very accustomed to vehicular traffic. So
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: he had his friend. He opened the door on a
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: van and he had his friend drive very slowly. He
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: rolled out of the moving van with the with the
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: re curve, and then that dud would just watched cars
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: go by. And he rolled out of the van while
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: I was moving, rolls up and shot and she like
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: took notice something she had swung her head around. It
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: punched right in the forehead. So I gotta hang it
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: on my wall with that thing. Guy. Only other guy
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: in my county that but one beside me shot one
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: in the forehead, did not get it. It ran off
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: for the air across fifty yards open field by a unicorn.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: That does that does a lot of good for pr
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: Can you can you touch on I guess while we're
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: talking about bleeder blades, just why I guess I can
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: tell you why people think they're good right because it
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: gives you, like another access of a cut. There's more
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: things they have lost, the premise of it. I had.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: I had the honor of actually hunting with Fred there.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: I heard him tell list around the campfire. I had
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: lunch with him and yeah, nice guy Acroan Ohio. He uh.
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: He said that the bleeder, the original bleeder blade if
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: you've seen the original bear razor heads were made out
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: of that hard blue carbon steel. He said. The purpose
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: of that is as soon as it hits a hard
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: surface like a bone, its shatters, then the broad hid
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: can carry on like a normal single blade broadhead is
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: only to open a bigger hole in the soft tissue
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: to reduce the drag of the shaft. Where you hoping,
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: Fred Bear, he came to the least that Bob Lee
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: had Uh sod Ben Pierson, Yeah, I gotta be good,
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: pretty good friends with Ben Pierson. I picked up a
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: lot of valuable shooting information from him. So the blades
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: just got misnamed. Well, no, people said oh, these blades
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: break off and they leave blades in the meat, and
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: somebody made eat them. So they started to make him
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: out of stuff that would ben and then destroyed the
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: whole inceptive at working. Now I just increase error drag
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: and you just ruined your penetration. But that wasn't the
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: intent when Fred Bare designed him. He had the design right,
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: if you're gonna use a bleeder blade, that's the one
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: you want. And so bleeder blades they're advertised or put
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: onto broadheads. Now they're just reducing your drag. But they've
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: been pretty easy, most of them, because the very thing
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: instead of breaking shattering like the original bleeder blades on
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: the bear razor head, they've been once you could be
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: in like that tiny tip Ben, when we're talking about
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: just they I mean almost as small you can hardly
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: see it. That's looses of the penetration. Just that little band.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: And what's the band of any kind gonna do. It's
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: going to read that direct the path of that era.
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: What's that gonna do? The shaft, Now, the shaft has
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: got to try to make this be in pushing all
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: that tissue, it just kills your penetration. It just doesn't
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: work at all. That's why structural integrity is the number
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: one thing. Okay, we're down number ten, which we've already
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: touched on, is going through the type of edge bevel
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: through soft tissue. I thought that was earlier on the thing. No,
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: we just got off on it because we were talking
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: about edge thickness and stuff. That's why don't remember me
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: saying I thought you you described for like it was
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: for A, B and C. No, it is just we
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: we just got off on it. So way down to
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: number ten, the type of edge bevel you do get
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: an increase in penetration. And we used it with different profiles, broadheads,
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: identical identical error set ups. You know, compared double bevel
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: to single bevel, you get an increase in penetration even
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: a soft tissue with a single bevel. And this was
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: one of the things in the testing that had a
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: hundred percent frequency. It happened every time and looking at
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: no matter what you hit, yeah with well a soft
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: tissue with bone, it's even more start because the single
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: bevel torqus and pops that bone. You get a massive
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: increase in average penetration. Are mean or media median or minimum,
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: you know, any any of the factors you want to
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: take out maximum penetration on every area. You can look
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: at that, you know, full graph, compare any of them
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: back and forth. You always have a higher percentage of
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: penetration with a single vel, and it was frequency in
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: the testing. So it is important, particularly on bone though,
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: that's where it makes the biggest difference, and a lot
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: of that is the higher mechanical advantage of the edge
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: less resistance. Going through slice is easier, it is more work.
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: Was he applied force? It penetrates more, just as simple physics, No,
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: nothing magic about it. I want to remember how we
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: wedge that traditional bit in between whatever, like eight and nine.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: I want to wedge something in here. Okay, talk about um.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: Apparently you're talking to Yanni about this about shooting animals
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: and propping them up and shooting them. Yeah, that's the
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: way we did most of the testing on freshy, cold animals.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: You put the animal down, you got thirty minutes. So
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: this is just so again, let's bring it back to
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: like the beginning. This is like when you talk about
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: the study. This is the study. This isn't like the
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: last you were because earlier you said, oh, the last
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: six hundred animals that have come in. Those animals are
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: separate database, and we used the hunted animals as a
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: cross reference. Are we seeing the same thing that the
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: setup shots on these fresh down day animals are indicating?
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: And yes we did. So this was this was what
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: you called the the tallest study. No, the tall study
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: is where it started with. And those were actually hunted animals.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: So then you went to a place where, like explained,
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: because we still I don't think anybody knows exactly like
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: when the study happened, what it was, where you were,
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: what the animals were. All I said at the time
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: I got through with it a tall study, I had
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: more questions than I did going in, and so I said, okay,
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: you know, I want to carry on with this. And
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: so I would do as many autopsies on animals as
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: I could. I made several trips back and forth Africa.
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: But then it really kicked up when I retired, and
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: the first four years I was over there, I spent
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: at least three hundred days a year hunting. Now that
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: was either guiding or which I didn't do a lot
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: of are are hunting on my own, shooting animals, and
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: UH would do buffalo whenever we could, like probably we'd
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: go into Mozambie can do the buffalo over there, uh
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: and collect as much dat as we possibly could. Then
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: after I got thrown out of Zimbabwe when they kicked
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: all the Americans out uh that weren't didn't have permanent residency,
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: I came back to the state's regroup and went down
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: to Australia and spent time in Australia, New Zealand and
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: New Guinea, all that area down there. But through contacts
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: I ran in a guy he used to be the
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: chief game ranger up in Kacadoo Park uh and Australia
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: of the Northern Territory. He shot who knows, thirty forty
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: thousand buffalo you know, back when they're trying to eradicate
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: because they're like a nine native. Yeah, so they were
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: for years tried to eradicate him and his his son
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: is still one of the park rangers there, probably thirty
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: forty of them. And because they out him from everything, cars, helicopters, boats, anywhere,
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: they could shoot him of any any buffalo you saw
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: you shot, uh, And we're not able to knock the
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: population down. So after he retired, he talked the government
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: of the Fishing Game Department into establishing a study where
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: he fenced in I don't know, it's about seven miles
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: by seven miles high fence. Uh And he's trying to
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: determine the carrying capacity without damaging the habitat for the
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: buffalo and he has to take about five hundred a
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: year off two keep the population at a level that
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: won't damage the habitat, or at least they think it's
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: not gonna damage it. And uh so I got and
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: and and he's sort of a reclusive don't take to
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: everybody and think I'll live in the middle of nowhere.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: He's really in the middle of nowhere. And uh we
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: just hit it off. And he used to do a
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: lot of testing while he's calling all these animals for
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: Woodley bullets because he's got a huge collection of firearms,
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of double rifles, British shotguns. Oh, I mean,
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: he's got a literally see container full of them. And
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: uh so, I you know, when I went up there
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: and met him through through a client that I had
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: guided in Australia that knew it, and uh we we
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: hit it off. And he said, you know, yeah, listen
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: let's come on up and said when when we're shooting
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: buffalo year around, said, come up and we'll you know,
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: we'll shoot the buffalo. We'll set up you know, when
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: you can test your arabs on him. And he thought
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: it was fascinating. So the other guys work for the
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: park there, the other game rangers, and had a lot
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: of them come out and watch. They were absolutely fascinating
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: what we're doing with eras. And uh so I would
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: go up there three months a year and we would
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: do as many buffaloes as we could do. And I
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: could do because of all the stuff you got to do,
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: the record keeping, the reaching a broad heads, the building
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: of new error setups and things you want to test
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: the most I can do with one buffalo every three
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: days and and get done. Uh. And we would go
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: out and he would get on the four wheel er.
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: I would follow him and and uh, we find a buffalo,
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: will cary all the gear with us, and he'd shoot
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: the buffalo, put it down usually head shot, next shot
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: something like that. We get there, prop it up, do
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: our shooting, and then collect all of our data. And
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: then I would go back and you know, do die
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: and carry parts of it back to dissect and uh,
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: we're had error stuck in the bones and stuff like that,
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: and and uh that I'd write all the recordings down
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: and then resharpen everything, get ready to variables variables on there.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: And that's everything from uh you know the bowl, uh,
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: the launch kinetic energy to launch momentum, the impact momentum,
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: what tip of animal it was, what distance was shot at, uh,
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: what bones were hit. So you've got to make it
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: easier because you know, I didn't have a true database
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: computer wise, so I have a field there like it's
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: this entrance rib hit. Yes, no industry of penetrating and
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: penetrate means passed completely through if it just sticks out
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 1: together side, he didn't penetrate it. The bone stopped the hair.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: I mean the broadhead had passed through the whole, because
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: the broad head had to completely pass through the bone
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: to consider it penetrating. And then you would carry on
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: through other bones and organs of what was hit. You know,
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: the extra ribs it hit was scapula hit. You know
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: it was a spinal he had spinal process um you know,
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: depending on what you're shooting at, pelvic girdle, neck, vertebra. Uh,
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: So you've got all these bones in there, so you
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: can go through it and look for something in a
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: in a It's in a spreadsheet, so I had limited
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: search if ability. But I could say, you know, all
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: of the trophy sized bull um asian buffalo uh hit
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: from a twenty degree angle uh impacting the ribs, and
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: I'd get all of those, and then I can go
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: back and get the same thing and say, give me
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: all the single bevels that did that. Give me the
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: results from all of the UH E f O C
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 1: eras that did that, or the ULTRAFC eras, and that
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: way you can start comparing stuff. Okay, here's averages for this,
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: here's average and take out. Okay, these are double bevel broadheads,
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: let's get those, you know, let's get single bevel broadheads.
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: And so you can start getting all these sets of
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: data to compare back and forth to each other, where
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: you can look at what was the minimum penetration, what
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: was the maximum uh. And then you've got fields and
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: every where you described stuff too that really didn't fit in,
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: like bone skips and things like that. U up. So
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: you got one field that's just free field, described the shot,
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: the tissue damage, the whatever you wanted to describe it
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: there and uh on that one when you when we've
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: got links for photos, I said, it's a bad photographer.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: Didn't have anything like that. So I had to keep
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: tracking what was what with photos just you know, in
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: a book, so just one like one aspect of this.
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: What were the when you were doing this? What were
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: the shot distances for instances uniform? All of those are
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: taken at a measured twenty yards. And then how many
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: total shots wouldn't probably have five thousand and how many
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 1: animals I don't know, never counted him. And but you
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 1: had thirty minutes before Rigor would impact though you had
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: about thirty minutes. Now in warm weather you might have
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: a little bit more than that. But we we put
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: it down in thirty minutes, and we stayed in thirty
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: minutes because even in what we cool weather down there,
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: because I went once in December, I'll never do it
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: again to the Northern Territory of Australia. That was miserable.
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 1: We know a Rigor Moore to specialists, if you ever
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: want to talk to him, there you go University Nebraska. Yeah,
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: Dr Chris Calkins, but he's picky about Caulkins or Calkins, Caulkins,
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: rigor Moore to specialist. There you go. Yeah, well we
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: did ours on the basis of okay, you know in
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: the early days. Yeah, we get past this. Okay, we're
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: seeing a difference in outcomes, so we gotta cut this
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: off here these so these way this this didn't doesn't
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: correlate with what we got before. Okay, what number were on?
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: Where are we design? We should have done this interstitial
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: thing idea? Yeah, dude, what we did was tip of
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: design was I took a series of broadheads Dennick Lara setups.
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: These are all single blade broadheads. Let's say the number again,
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: what number number eleven? And what is it? Tip design tip? Okay,
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. And what we did was put different tip profiles,
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: and we use seven different tip profiles because that goes
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: against your whole mechanical advantage thing. Reason for that, we
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: were looking at a number of things. He's holding up,
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: he's looking at it. We're looking at a point that
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: has a earlier what he would describe as a very
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: high mechanical advantage angle profile or whatever the hell. But
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: then it's got a little chisel point on it, like
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: chisel is different. Name these things. What's that like knives?
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: They call that what tanto? It's got a tanto point.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: It looks like two tanto points put back to back.
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: So that's that's what it named. And that name is
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: called on It just stuck through the years, Uh, just
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 1: because I had to have something to call it when
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: I was doing the testing. Um. But we tried all
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: the different points, and we were looking at durability and
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: skip angle. Now skip angle is a big important factor.
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: The others like a skip like all hell, it doesn't. No,
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: this actually was the best design of all at the
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: lowest skip angle and the highest durability of all the
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: ones we tested. Now, if you could get a needle
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: tip that wouldn't damage, it might do as well. But
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: I never could find one that didn't damage well the
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: way until different materials come. Well, this this came by
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: far the best, and we're one of the things gonna
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: look at and I tried to determine it and we're
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: gonna be able to find out with that high speed
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: camera is I tried different sharpening profiles on this tanto tip. Uh,
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: single bevel on the same side, single bevel on the
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 1: opposite side, and double bevel, and I was never able
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: to tell which one truly worked the best, particularly for
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: skip angle. What is skip angle? Well, when the an
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: airy hits the bone, most bones are designed to redirect forces.
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: They're they're not only just hold the body up to
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: protect the body, so they curve multiple directions. So it's
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: pretty rare to be able to hit a bone square.
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons the buffalo it's such a
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: nice test ad because they have very broad, wide ribs,
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: so you can almost get a square impact. Or like
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: we did, you put a protractor out here, You take
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: a string, you measure the angle, and you shoot at
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 1: various So the skip angle describes the angle of the bone,
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: not the angle of impact between the broad heads and
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: the bone. Yes, and that's really important, like guys hung
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: out tree stands and stuff, because now they're looking down
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: at ribs and think of the curves that are involved.
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: And it's not uncommon to hit one of those ribs
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: and have the air actually right around the outside curve
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 1: of those ribs and go into the ground. And a
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: lot of people it happens so fast they think they've
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: shot through. The animal in the air never got into
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: the chest cabin. You just wanted the skin. I think
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: people from eating beef ribs. You know, people get a
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: wrong idea what a deer's rib looks like. When you
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: actually take a deer's rib out, that's some bitches round. Yeah,
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: it's not. It's not a flat face. Most ribs are
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: that way. Yea. Yeah, the bigger the animal gets, the
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: flatter the rib. Elephant ribbs got a big flat giraffe,
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: big flat, hippo's big flat buffalo rude to smaller flat.
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: It's pretty round. Yeah, the smaller the animal gets, the
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: more round they are. Brown bears almost perfectly round, right,
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: it's real round. I feel like this would be a
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 1: good time to talk about bone busting arrow and whether
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: it's a real thing or if it's a myth. One
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: more and we'll do. Just didn't because the next thing
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: coming up factor number twelve at the bottom of the list,
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: because it's only important when you hit a heavy bone.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: Is an erraw mass or an arrow weight above the
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 1: heavy bone threshold? Read that one of me again. It's
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: arraw weight if you want to think of it that way,
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: above the heavy bone threshold. Okay, that's gonna require a
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: lot of explanation. It does, and Most people have it
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: wrong because they read what's there and they see six
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: fifty grains heavy bone threshold and they think, Okay, I
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: got six grains air. It's gonna break heavy bone every time. Wrong.
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: What we found is that every broadhead, doesn't matter how
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: poor it is or how good it is, shows an increase,
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: a marked increase in the bone breaching rate of heavy
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: bone when the air and mass reaches right at the
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 1: sifty grain, and it's literally within a few grains one
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 1: way or the other of the six fifty. And it
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem to vary whether you're shooting a compound or
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: whether you're shooting a longboat or recurve with it. Very
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 1: if you shot at at a hundred ft a second
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: ort a second, not not much at all, doesn't seem
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: to make any difference at all. Uh, when we've tried it,
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 1: we're gonna do some more of it. It's some more
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 1: verification of it, but at some point it should if
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: we can get enough force, it should make a difference.
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: But so far we don't have that. Um the basic premises,
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: like we're talking about, the bones are there to protect
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: the body, so they have all of these curves and
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: bands but they also have articulations, so if they move,
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: they also are flexible. They will flex. So when the
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: error hits, it's got to push on this bone long
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: enough to overcome the movement of the bone, the flexion
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 1: of the bone before it ever starts to penetrate the bone.
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 1: And that depends on how long it's able to push
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 1: the impulse of force. And it's strictly weight related. So
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: if you took a real poor broad head, took a
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: muzzy bad to the bone, Yeah, it's bad to the bone,
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 1: all right, Okay, it's it's it's going to have a
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: pretty low penetration in heavy bone. It's not a great
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: broad head for breaching heavy bone, and it might give
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: you blow blow the heavy bone threshold. Get it above
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 1: the heavy bone threshold, it might jump to. But you
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: take the best broadheads, and it doesn't matter if the
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: single bevel or double bevel. The best design broadheads good
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: mechanical advantage two point six or higher seemed to be
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: where the cutoff was on. There was the two point
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 1: six uh bolow the heavy bone threshold. They might have
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 1: a seven eight bone breaching right you hit the threshold,
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: it is consistently and it doesn't matter if I shoot
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 1: it with a forty pound re curve or shoot it
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: with a compound. It worked. The foc of the ERA
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 1: had no effect on heavy bone threshold strictly how long
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: it was able to push on the bone. But once
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: you can breach that bone, then the foc becomes really
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: important because the post breaching penetration is going to depend
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: on that foc because now that air is flying again.
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: It's flying while it's putting on that bone too, but
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 1: as it's also going to slow down the back of it.
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: Wanta Flex FLC has a lot of that reduced impact
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 1: paradox we were talking about. So it's gonna cut down
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 1: the drag a lot once we breached that bone. But
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 1: that's where the heavy bone threshold comes in. It does
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: not mean that you can take a muzzy and put
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 1: it on a six fifty grain ERA and go out
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: and break health shoulders ain't gonna happen. But you put
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 1: a good broadhead, quality steel, durable spit shine dropped home
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: durable point on there. That's not gonna be skitting off
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 1: bones everywhere. And yes, when we looked at the penetration
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: sumized eras these were all uh e f O c eras.
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think rae ultra is in there at all,
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: and we're using several different bows. We had a hundred
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 1: and nineties six hundred ninety six shots, eighteen percent of
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 1: those with a forty pound bare formula silver recurve traveling
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 1: at a velocity of a massive hundred and nineteen feet
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 1: per second shot at twenty yards on buffalo, and go
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 1: all the way up to eighty two pound bows. So
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 1: we had we had the forty pound, we had a
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: fifty four pound long bowl, we had a uh seventy pound,
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 1: sixty four pound longbow, seventy pound long sixty two, sixty
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 1: two pound longbow, seventy pound long bowl, and eighty two
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 1: pound and all of these errors had a dent breaching
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: rate hundred ninety six shots on trophy size consecutive consecutive
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: trophy size buffalo. What bone this is the ribs, which
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 1: is about eight inch eight tenths of an inch of
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 1: pretty solid bone, so heavier than the scapul and the
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: elk oh, yeah, heavier than the scapul on help absolutely,
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 1: and all of these errors would have been every factor
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 1: on there penetration maximized. Mm hmm Okay, let's do this
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: real quick. What should what should folks be like? What
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 1: should folks be using? Well, that depends on what they're
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 1: willing to live with. Any factor you use, you think
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 1: of these as a tool box. Any factor you put
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: off that list and add to your error that you're
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 1: currently using is going to improve the performance of that error.
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: But what do you mean what they're willing to live with? Well,
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 1: some people won't. They have this mindset that, oh, if
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 1: I shoot a six fifth grain Era, my trajectory is
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 1: just gonna boom if I shoot you hear it all
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 1: the time. If I shoot an e fo c Era,
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 1: he's just gonna go out their nose dive. It doesn't.
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: It actually shoots flatter. If you take two errors that
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: are the exact same except for the foc shot out
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 1: of the same boat, the foc or ultra e fo
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 1: c era is going to shoot flatter, so because it's
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 1: conserving energy from the paradox coming off of the boat. Yeah,
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: do you I mean, do you think it's fair to
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 1: say that people's um that people are prioritizing target, their
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 1: prioritizing target shooting over killing, their prioritizing hitting the animals,
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 1: that are killing the animal, and the emphasis needs to
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 1: be on killing the animal. And there is what we
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: try to talk about, you know a little bit with
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 1: some of the new stuff that we well, we've got
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 1: a couple of the videos out now that that Darryl
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: and Troy did. UH. The the parable of the shot,
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 1: the lighter era as it goes out once it starts
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 1: to lose velocity. The heavier era, even though it's slower,
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't do that. It doesn't knows dive like that. It
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 1: carries it on through. So as you get to these
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 1: longer ranges, it actually carries It's not not the big
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 1: drop that people are expecting when you get out there.
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 1: And this is some actual data using those Doppler uh
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: and you a whole series of tuned arras, all all
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 1: these tuned to the bows. So so we're starting to
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: collect the hard data on this that is it's not
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 1: what people are thinking is. And the pin gaps, if
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 1: you look at the pin gaps with the light eras
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 1: they go like this like this, you get longer range,
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 1: you get bigger and bigger pin gaps. With these heavy errors,
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 1: you don't the pin gaps sticking system stay consistent all
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 1: the way down because it's carrying that parable of the
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: trajectory out better. You could probably explain this better than me,
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: that my forte is from when it hitstilly gets out
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 1: of them. So, uh, what would be like in your mind? Um,
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: if you're just gonna throw something like hard and fasts,
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: people should be thinking about if they're if they're focusing
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 1: on killing the animal, they should be thinking about broadheads
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: and the what they should be thinking about these factors
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 1: and what they do to their air performance? And in
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 1: the what grain weight? Well, myself sifty grains. I will
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 1: not shoot an error below that in a game. And
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 1: what weight broadhead? I try to get the highest f
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: oc I can with the light of shaft. So I
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 1: generally am using three grain plus broadheads on brass or
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 1: steel inserts uh to get as much weight as it
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 1: can up front, generally with sometimes with internal footing behind
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 1: that in the shaft are a collar on the front,
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 1: uh to you have the shaft not being driven in
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 1: um and keep it from fracturing up front. Um, but
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to put. What I'm trying to do is
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 1: get as much weight into this little ball as I can.
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 1: If you could make all the way to that era,
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 1: a neutron side sucker penetrate to the tank wanted. Now
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 1: neutron bombs do it. Yeah, it sounds like bo hunters
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 1: need a science lesson. Well, a lot of it does
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 1: because they've this stuff has been sold to them in
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 1: magazines for the last seventy years. That all speed, speed, speed, light, fast,
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 1: multiply broadheads, they cut bigger holes, they bleed more. Now.
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 1: I tried doing I tried doing some blood trail data,
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 1: and uh, with a set of animals, you don't get
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of it. But if I had to put
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 1: it down, the blood trail has no bearing on the
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 1: broad heads you use. What's going to matter is where
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: you hit that animal, what you hit inside that animal,
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 1: Do you have an exit wound, and where does that
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 1: exit moon to locate. If you've got a high entrance,
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: high exit, you could have fifteen blades. You're gonna have
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: a poor broad blood trail if you hit him in
• 2:17:19
  Speaker 1: the back and it comes out his stern um. I
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 1: don't care. If you're shooting a field point, you're gonna
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 1: have a blood trailer. You know. That's interesting. I had
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 1: a client once hit an elk with like a three
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 1: thirty eight windmag I believe it was hit him high.
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 1: Eventually we found him, but guess what we didn't have
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 1: something happens with guns. Ye, not been of difference. All
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: the bloods inside the cabin. How to fill up they're bleeding,
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 1: but yeah, it takes a while to fill it. Like
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: just cavity ups big. That's a big pot of blood.
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: That blood is gonna collect in the air and it's
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 1: gonna collapse lungs. So not only is he dive from
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 1: ass of blood, but it's going to get the force
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 1: harder and harder for him to travel. And that's what
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 1: you're trying to do this when you want hopefully two
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 1: holes through the lungs. If you can get that, then
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 1: you get that numal thora actually start to collapse those
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 1: lungs and he doesn't travel. As for all right, tell
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 1: everybody how to find you, Well, you need to go
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 1: to h Ashby Bow Hunting dot org. We are a
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 1: five old, one c three nonprofit. None of the people
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 1: are salary to. Everybody is a volunteer. That all the
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 1: officers everything, and we'll take donations from individuals, won't take
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 1: them from archery industry. Now, if somebody works in the
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 1: archery industry and wants to donate as an individual, but
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 1: it's not gonna buy any special access or special treatment
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 1: in any way. And if you okay, and then just
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 1: to get the so if you want to see so,
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 1: so you guys at Grizzly Stick, make a point that
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 1: is the closest like it's the closest manifestation of what
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 1: you would argue to be the point we were talking
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 1: last night. If if I'm picking a point to hunt
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: with the day, there are only two. Now, there might
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 1: be some others that haven't been tested yet, so I
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 1: don't want to rule them out, but ones that have
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 1: been tested thoroughly that I know work, is only two
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 1: that I would use. One is the astuty broad head,
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 1: which looks just about like that, and the other one,
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 1: uh is the tough head, the three gin tough head,
• 2:19:27
  Speaker 1: the original one. And because those work. Now, I did
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of testing with very narrow broad heads where
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 1: I were taking these and working them down, uh to
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 1: well blow an inch diameter because you've got a lot
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 1: of loss to say, you gotta have an inch diameter
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 1: broad head or inch and an eighth or something like
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 1: that in various places works just fine. It kills buffalo,
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 1: it'll kill white tails. Can't necessarily go the other way around.
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 1: You know, people missed that thing. You know, Like I said,
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: I like to carry one an era. I don't care
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 1: what I encounter. I'm ready to shooting. Uh. Do you
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 1: guys get any donations. We're just really getting started with
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 1: him coming in, but we're getting some coming in. And
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 1: we're in the process now of doing some grant requests
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 1: from you know, like Dallas far Club and people like that.
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 1: And uh. And you don't feel like that's gonna you
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 1: don't feel that's gonna lead to industry manipulation. It's gonna
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 1: have to be it's gonna have to be a grant
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 1: and no strings attached period. God, if they're strings attached,
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 1: we ain't doing it. We've had some people in the
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 1: archery industry want to donate, and no, not like those
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 1: guys the tobacco industry hires and show the tobacco good
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 1: for you, all right, ask me Bow Hunting Foundation. Yes,
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 1: go to it, look at it. Donate if you want
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 1: to find out, if you want to support research that
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 1: finds out what really works, what doesn't work, and and
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 1: what the money goes for, Like senators. No salaries involved.
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 1: Is buying the equipment. Why we're buying this high speed camera?
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 1: We bought this, brought these doctor radar chronographs. Do you
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 1: do Q and as with people like if they go like, hey,
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: what about this? Do you reply to him? Oh? Yeah,
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 1: We've got a place in there that they can ask
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 1: questions and and we'll give me answers, you know what
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 1: answer we can give them. And the guys volunteer a
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 1: lot of time. They uh, they build even to the
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 1: point of building up air setups for people, Um you
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 1: know that that are going hunt a cape buffalo or
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 1: something and I've never done him. Um. So they actually
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 1: do a hand a lot of hands on for individuals
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 1: and it's called ask ashpy but but it's it's it's
• 2:21:41
  Speaker 1: routed to whichever one of us on the board is
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 1: is most qualified nanswer, cause my hands are getting where
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 1: I can hardly do anything with them. If they can answer,
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 1: they answer. If they can, it comes to me, got it?
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 1: And if I can't answer it, I tell them I
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 1: don't know. You know, that's we're doing testing. Owner are Hey,
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 1: that's something we're gonna add to the testing. That's a
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 1: good idea, you know, they're just stuff, you know, people
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 1: are good about doing that, and and we have become
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 1: involved with one of the big things with Texas Parks
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 1: and Wildlife. We're affiliated with them, so we put on
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 1: programs teaching this type stuff to the Bowl Hunter Education instructors,
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 1: so we trained them in that and UH we worked
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 1: with FAZA, the Professional Hunter Association of South Africa and
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 1: the one in the media also and we're trying to
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: set up one in Zambia. Working with that, we supplied
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of information that went over to Russia where
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 1: they illegalized winning last year UH and looking at Germany,
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 1: looking to some other places that were trying to system
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 1: with information the data we have Botswana and so we're
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: trying to you know, reach out that way. So we
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 1: not only try to work with government agencies and just
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 1: Reese well, we sent out letters to every state fishing
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 1: Game department telling them what we're doing with Texas Parks
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 1: and Wildlife and seeing if we can assist they mean,
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 1: we've had replies back from I don't know what two
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 1: or three or four. You know, there's just not a
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 1: lot of people that have information for those guys that
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 1: want to go out and educate people and so when
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 1: we've been able to supply that information for them, they've
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 1: been starving for it. Almost seems like a lot of
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 1: the guys and just they're looking for ways to better
• 2:23:27
  Speaker 1: educate their students when they're going through this the house
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 1: and wives of what's going on site them. Thanks Doc, appreciated, welcome,
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 1: asked bow Hunt and Foundation. Check them out, donate, senate donation,
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 1: everybody