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"Jackasses v Jackson." · Pod Save America

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Supreme Court nominee Katonji Brown-Jackson sails through
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the first day of Republican attacks during her confirmation hearing.
• 0:31
  Speaker 5: U.S.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy joins to talk through the
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: White House's plea for COVID funding in advance of a
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: possible uptick in cases. And comedian director Judd Apatow will
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: be here in studio for a special round of Take Appreciator.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: How's that?
• 0:44
  Speaker 5: That's cool.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: That's exciting. Before we start, the first two episodes of
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Stuck with Damon Young are out now. Also exciting.
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: Nice.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: First up, Damon talks to Nicole Hannah-Jones about all of
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: the racial and economic factors at play when parents choose
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: their child's school. Then, in the next episode, Damon is
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: joined by Saida Grundy and Jason Reynolds to deconstruct all
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the weird, awkward, and terrifying intraracial anxieties people have about sex.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: New episodes every Tuesday. Follow Stuck with Damon Young only
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: on Spotify.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: I've not heard them yet, but the book is amazing,
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: so I can't wait to listen.
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: Very excited. Damon's book, that is.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Also, check out a brand new episode of X-Ray Vision
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: recorded live at South by Southwest. Jason and Rosie discuss
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: the upcoming Moon Knight series, the new trailer for Marvel
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Studios' Ms. Marvel, and explore the historical and narrative importance
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: of multiverses in fiction and comics. New episodes of X-Ray
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Vision drop every Friday. All right, let's get to the news.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court nominee Ketanji Brown-Jackson appeared before the Senate Judiciary
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Committee on Monday. to kick off the confirmation hearing that
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: will determine whether she becomes the 117th justice and the
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: first black woman to serve in the nation's highest court.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Judge Jackson has been confirmed by the Senate three times already.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: When she was nominated to the U.S. Sentencing Commission in 2009,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: to the D.C. District Court in 2012, and to the D.C.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Court of Appeals a year ago, where she was confirmed
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: by a bipartisan vote of 53 to 44. She'll be
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: confirmed again if all 50 Senate Democrats hang together. but
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: the slim margin means that there's little room for error,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: which is why it's nice to have a confirmation veteran
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: like Judge Jackson as the nominee. Here's a clip from
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: her opening statement.
• 2:19
  Speaker 6: When I was born here in Washington, my parents were
• 2:22
  Speaker 6: public school teachers. And to express both pride in their
• 2:27
  Speaker 6: heritage and hope for the future, they gave me an
• 2:31
  Speaker 6: African name, Ketanji Onyeka, which they were told means lovely one.
• 2:39
  Speaker 6: My parents taught me That unlike the many barriers that
• 2:43
  Speaker 6: they had had to face growing up, my path was clearer.
• 2:48
  Speaker 6: So that if I worked hard and I believed in
• 2:51
  Speaker 6: myself in America, I could do anything or be anything
• 2:56
  Speaker 6: I wanted to be.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: What did you guys think of Judge Jackson's opening statement?
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: Love it?
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Brings me no pleasure to report this.
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: I think she blew it.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: I think it's a mess and I think they'll have
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: to clean it up.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Tommy, do you have a dissenting view?
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: Dissenting view, yeah. I mean, there's very few people probably
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: in the history of this process who are better prepared
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: than Judge Jackson was. ABA, well-qualified, fourth confirmation hearing, recently
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: got a bipartisan vote. You know, like day one is
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: always the least fireworks day. It's a lot of speeches
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: from very old U.S. senators, opening statement from the nominee.
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: But like what I took away from her remarks were,
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: I remember her adorable family. She was talking about her
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: college friends who were there. She was talking about her
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: speech coach, her younger brother, did two tours in the army.
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: It was touching to hear her talk about trying to
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: get the balance right between being a mom and being
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: a professional and failing sometimes. It was a lot of
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: focus on that personal. She pledged to make equal justice
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: under the law a reality. Hard to argue with that
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: in an opening statement. We'll get into Josh Hawley and
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: some of the jerks later, but Very good performance.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: Jokes aside, it was personal. It was poignant. It was moving.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: You felt the history as she described what her parents
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: had been through. You felt it when she talked about
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: being a mom. You felt it when she talked about
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: not always feeling like she got the work balance right
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: as a mom on her way to this place. And
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: the whole thing was just one big dare to these
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: fucking smug pricks to vote against her. It's just unbelievable.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I should say, to your point about all the speeches, Tommy,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: there were no questions today, which is one reason why.
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: Zero questions.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: The opening day, there's just such a weird way to
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: do the process. Literally a speech from every senator on
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: the Judiciary Committee and then a short 10-minute statement from
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Katonji Brown-Jackson at the end. And that was it. We
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: called it a day.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: These people love to fucking hear themselves talk. It's a
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: meeting that could have been an email.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: But no, I thought the statement was wonderful. She took
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: great pains to emphasize her judicial independence. There were some
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: nice touches. You guys mentioned sort of the family stuff
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: that she talked about in her background. You know, she
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: also talked about how her opinions are long because she
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: believes in transparency and she believes in the importance of
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: having each litigant know that she has heard them, which
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I thought was really nice. She emphasized her 10 years
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: as a judge. There was a nod to history and
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: that she mentioned that she stands on the shoulders of
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Constance Baker Motley. the first black woman to argue with
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court and the first appointed to the federal
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: judiciary who happens to share a birthday with Katonji Brown Jackson.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of nice touches in there in
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: her opening statement. How would you guys characterize the confirmation
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: strategy based on the statements from Jackson and all the
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Democratic senators on the Judiciary Committee? What are they all
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: going for here?
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: I mean, well, I think Justice Alana Kagan is once
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: wrote in a book about the process, the safest and
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: surest route to the prize lay in alternating platitudinous statement
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: and judicious silence.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: That's really good.
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: John Roberts gave similar advice to Sandra Day O'Connor when
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: she was before the Senate. So the nominees try to
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: say as little as they possibly can without insulting anybody. And,
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: you know, the Democrats are obviously on board, if not
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: thrilled with the pick. There was some very emo moments
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: from Lindsey Graham. Lindsay's still working through some things. This is, again,
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: a confirmation hearing that could have been a therapy session.
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: He's still very mad about Brett Kavanaugh.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: It gives away the game a little. Their decision to
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: bring out Kavanaugh at this moment is a way to
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: score a point that actually does nothing to help them
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: in this hearing. It's not strategic, which kind of tells
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: you where this is heading.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: What do you guys make of this, that they're trying
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: to be the civility guy? party after four years of Trump.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I think they've learned that you can be a hypocrite
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: on anything and no one cares about hypocrisy because no
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: one has any kind of memory anymore.
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: They're shameless. It's shameless.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: I think, of course, they are shameless. I think they genuinely,
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: I think it is a genuine, not just for the cameras,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: a genuine article of faith on the right that Bork
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: to Clarence Thomas to Brett Kavanaugh to Harry Reid nuking
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: the filibuster for lower court judges is the story of
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: of left-wing radicalism on the court. I don't agree with it,
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: but I think they genuinely have internalized that. They believe it.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: They believe Kavanaugh was a culmination of that.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: They talk about it all the time. I mean, they
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: talked about it today a lot, but they have... Lindsey
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Graham has been saying it since the Kavanaugh hearings.
• 7:36
  Speaker 7: No, of course.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Every time you get them in front of a camera.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: No, no, I'm saying this is their sincere story. They
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: really believe it.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: But anyway, back to the Democrat strategy here, because we're
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: going to get to the Republican attacks in a second.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I do think they are trying their hardest to sort
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: of present her as a qualified historic nominee whose judicial
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: philosophy is right in the mainstream. They keep saying that
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: over and over again. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, former judiciary
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: chairman himself, he said that she's no judicial activist and
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: is not anti-law enforcement or soft on crime. They've all
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: mentioned how she's been praised by conservative judges, lawyers from
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: both sides, prosecutors and defenders who've been in front of her.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: They've talked about how she comes from a law enforcement family.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: They've mentioned that these law enforcement groups, police groups support her,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: have put out statements of support.
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: She's got the Fraternal Order of Police endorsement, has relatives
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: who are cops.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can really, you can tell that this
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: is sort of confounding Republicans a bit. Like Mitch McConnell
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: at one point said, You know, I interviewed her and
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: she said she has no judicial philosophy, but then all
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: of her backers are saying that it's mainstream. So which
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: is it? I'm like, is it no philosophy or a
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: mainstream philosophy?
• 8:42
  Speaker 5: I gotcha.
• 8:43
  Speaker 8: That's fine.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: But, you know, Senate Republicans keep saying they want to
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: treat Judge Jackson with respect and avoid personal attacks. They're
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: taking great pains to say that, which is, you know,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: something they continue to mention as a way to complain
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: about Kavanaugh. But in their opening statements, a number of
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: them went after Jackson's record on affirmative action, child pornography,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: the representation of Guantanamo Bay detainees, and her position on
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: expanding the Supreme Court. Take a listen.
• 9:04
  Speaker 9: Her supporters look at her resume and deduce a special
• 9:08
  Speaker 9: empathy for criminals. I guess that means that government prosecutors
• 9:12
  Speaker 9: and innocent crime victims start each trial at a disadvantage.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: So the next morning there were headlines all over the country, really.
• 9:23
  Speaker 6: Accusing Judge Kavanaugh of being basically Bill Cosby.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: None of us are going to do that to you.
• 9:30
  Speaker 10: When it comes to free speech, this committee should inquire,
• 9:34
  Speaker 10: will you protect the rights of Americans to speak, to
• 9:37
  Speaker 10: say unpopular ideas, to say ideas that the government doesn't
• 9:41
  Speaker 10: want you to say that you nonetheless have a right
• 9:43
  Speaker 10: to say?
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: Will you protect freedom or restrict it?
• 9:47
  Speaker 10: They have the most radical view of what a judge
• 9:50
  Speaker 10: should do, and you were their choice. And you'll be asked,
• 9:53
  Speaker 10: do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: I hope you give us an answer because it shouldn't
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: be hard. Either you do or you don't.
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: States versus Hawkins.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: This was a child pornography case where the defendant distributed
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: multiple images of child porn, possessed dozens more, including videos.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: The federal sentencing guidelines recommended a sentence of 97 to
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: 121 months in prison. Prosecutors recommended 24 months in prison.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Judge Jackson gave the defendant three months in prison.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: So can you guys detect a Republican strategy here for
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: a hearing that, you know, seems like it will result
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: in a confirmation?
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, it's funny.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: It's interesting to me that Lindsey Graham, it never occurs
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: to him that maybe the distinction between the two hearings,
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: that there's no credible allegation of sexual assault in this one.
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: Maybe that's why it's not coming up. You know, look,
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: the Republicans calling Democrats soft on crime is a very,
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: very old story. It was weaponized during Nixon and Reagan,
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: but it's something we see all the time. So clearly
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: that's the angle they're going for. They're trying to demonize
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: her record as a public defender. She would be the
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: first public defender ever on the Supreme Court, that's actually
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: an exciting thing. It's full of prosecutors normally. And I
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: think you would think that conservatives who like limited government
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: would think that there is some value in protecting your
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: average citizen from the overwhelming power of the state to
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: prosecute you and throw you in jail for life. But no,
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: they would rather demagogue that and go after rulings perceived
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: as lenient. And then Josh Hawley is just really into
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: child porn. At the hearing as an issue.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: What's up with this child pornography attack from Josh Hawley?
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: And why has it already been widely discredited?
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I had the good fortune of not seeing
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: the attack directly. The first thing I saw about it,
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: believe it or not, was an article in National Review
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: by Andrew McCarthy, who is a right-winger, a right-wing legal analyst.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Opposes Katonji Brown-Jackson's nomination.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: Opposes the nomination, has been... uh, one of the most
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: ferocious right wing conservatives, uh, uh, there is. And what,
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: what he said was the implication that she has a
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: soft spot for sex offenders who prey on children because
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: she argued against severe mandatory minimum prison sentence for the
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: receipt and distribution of pornographic images is a smear. So
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: he decided it was a smear.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: He's, he said, meritless to the point of demagoguery.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: Uh, and, uh, Yeah, I mean, put it in Josh
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Hawley's Wikipedia.
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: And specifically, one of the things that Josh Hawley did
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: that was most egregious was he took screenshots of her
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: quoting back witness testimony and suggested that these were her
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: opinions that she was stating, when in fact she was
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: repeating back to a witness what the witness had said
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: in the form of a question. So that is really
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: incredibly misleading.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Completely out of context, so that's that. And then on
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: the sentencing itself, Hawley argues, just so everyone knows, that
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: she handed down lighter sentences on child pornography cases, lighter
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: than the Justice Department was seeking or the U.S. sentencing
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: guidelines recommended. But her sentences in five of the seven
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: cases were the same as or greater than what the U.S.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Probation Office recommended. And most judges in the country, conservative
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: or liberal, issue sentences below the guidelines, including many judges
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: that Josh Hawley and other Republicans have confirmed. Judges issue
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: below guideline sentences in child pornography cases in nearly 80%
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: of cases in Washington, D.C., where Katonji Brown Jackson sit,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: and 77% of cases in Missouri, where Josh Hawley, senator,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: and confirmed all the judges there.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: And like, you know, we are trying to figure out
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: as a society how to unravel the fact that we
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: live in a police and prison state. Why do we,
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: what are the politics that led to it?
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: It's this kind of politics.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: It's It's Mitch McConnell saying that you must be friendly
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: with criminals because you are a public defender, like John
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: Adams in the Boston fucking massacre, something I learned from HBO.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: And you see how judges and prosecutors face this incredible
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: pressure to never use common sense, to never show mercy
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: in certain cases, putting these specific cases aside, to throw
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: the book at people Because at some point, someone like
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: Josh Hawley will come along and try to demagogue the
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: issue no matter what the case, no matter what your
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: record may be.
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: The people who tend to hate mandatory minimums the most
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: are judges because it takes away their ability to be rational,
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: reasonable people and to take into account circumstances that are
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: specific to a case. So Hawley also goes after her
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: because she was part of this U.S. Sentencing Commission that
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: recommended some changes to the way mandatory minimum laws were enforced,
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: the duration of them, etc., The problem with that attack
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: is that the commission was bipartisan and every recommendation was unanimous.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Unanimous.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: Which led to Judge William Pryor, who's a right-wing Republican.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: I remember him being the subject of a huge U.S.
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: Senate fight back in the day, coming out to defend
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: Judge Jackson, saying we worked by consensus and that is
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: the tradition of the sentencing commission. Virtually all of our
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: votes were unanimous and data-driven. So, Josh Hawley, you insufferable dick.
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: This is the reality.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: And this is this was the this is the child
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: pornography set of cases. They're also going to go after
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: her in the days to come on defending Guantanamo Bay.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Gitmo, because that's that's gone really well.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: You know, and there was another Reagan nominated appeals judge
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: who released a statement today and said, when a lawyer
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: represents an unattractive defendant, a Guantanamo detainee is an example.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: That's just a public defender doing their job. That's what
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: a public defender is. You are assigned. to give people
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: the representation that is their right in the constitution.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Like John Adams in the Boston massacre. Paul Giamatti was
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: wonderful in that moment. I mean, but just one other
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: point about this too, which is I do think Josh
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: Hawley knows exactly what he's doing. There's a reason he
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: chose this issue first. He knows who he's playing footsie with.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: He knows that he is throwing a little chum in
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: the water for the QAnon people. I think Mitch McConnell
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: talking about soft on crime. Marsha Blackburn saying you have
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: a hidden secret agenda to do critical race theory. They
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: are also very comfortable exploiting the fact that this is
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: a black woman who makes their base fundamentally uncomfortable. So
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: they all know exactly what they're doing.
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: Race is swirling in all of this. And certainly, I'm sure, explicitly, implicitly,
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: one way or the other, is guiding their approach. The
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: Gitmo thing really bugs me, though, because Guantanamo Bay is
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: a decades-long travesty of justice. And the idea that you
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: would attack someone for defending someone imprisoned there, considering how
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: many people have been held wrongly, have been tortured, have
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: been just kept in sort of a legal, liminal space
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: between reality and hell, it's a horrible, horrible thing. And
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: shame on all of them for demagoguing it, but the
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: politics of terrorism in this country are still a disaster
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: this many years after 9-11.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: And look, I think they are doing this knowing that
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: she's probably going to be confirmed. Someone asked Joe Manchin
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: after the hearing what he thought about the Josh Hawley stuff.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: And he was like, you sure it was Hawley, right?
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Take that for what it's worth. Like, just, you know,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Joe Manchin's not buying it.
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: So but I don't think it's about her necessarily. They're
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: using her for these attacks. You know, The New York
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Times reports that Democrats believe the Republican attacks on Judge
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Jackson and other Biden judicial nominees are, quote, tied to
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: a central element of Republicans midterm campaign strategy. which is
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: to blame Democrats for an increase in crime by portraying
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: them as unwilling to punish lawlessness and hostile to law enforcement.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: How should Democrats handle these attacks, knowing that they are
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: connected to a larger midterm case the Republicans are trying
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: to make about Democrats as soft on crime?
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Well, I think you have to split that in half.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: There's how Democrats handle this around the hearings, and that's
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: how the Democrats handle it more broadly. I assume that
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: there will be pushback in this hearing. And as of
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: right now, Judge Jackson has not had the opportunity to
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: to push back against what is an offensive and despicable
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: attack from Josh Hawley. And I expect that that will.
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: Be a moment.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Beyond that, I think we're going to make a positive
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: case for why this is a historic nomination of a
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: judge in the mainstream, as Tommy said, at a great
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: victory for Joe Biden and a great victory for Democrats.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: And beyond that, like how much do we have to
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: really engage in this?
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: I guess maybe, I guess I don't really buy that
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: they're trying to make this some part of a big
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: midterm case. I think they're trying to get through this
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: and get onto the next one. Because I think what's
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: really happening here is like Lindsey Graham is out there
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: saying this is a new game for the Supreme Court.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: And that's why he is talking about the Brett Kavanaugh hearing.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: He's saying, I'm going to drop the art of this now.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: I know I voted for her. But now it's just
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: hand-to-hand combat at these things. And it's going to be
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: as partisan as we want it to be and blah, blah, blah.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: That's the way forward now. I'm actually fine with that.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: I'm tired of the theater around this bullshit. I'm tired
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: of pretending judges are nonpartisan actors. While Ginny Thomas like
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: storms the Capitol and lies and pretends she doesn't talk
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: to Clarence Thomas about what's going on. I don't think
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: there's going to be any factor in the midterms.
• 18:58
  Speaker 8: I really don't.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: I hope he got my flowers.
• 19:00
  Speaker 6: Which who?
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: Clarence?
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I think it's, I disagree. I think it's, I think it's,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: I think they're building a case. I think, is it someone,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: is some midterm voter going to remember what happened in
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: the hearing with some question? No, probably not.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: I think they're going to talk about defund the police,
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: but it's just going to be unrelated to this.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: They're going to be crime is up and Democrats are
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: defunding the police. They're nominating judges, not just Katonji Brown-Jackson's,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: all these judges, these public defenders who let people off.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: these mayors did it, these so-called progressive prosecutors that they're
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: trying to recall. It's a big news. It's all part
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: of the case.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: It's a big news cycle. They're not going to waste it.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: They're not going to waste it trying to actually defeat
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: her because they don't think they can.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: And I don't think that what Democrats can afford to
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: do is do what some very online people do with
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: inflation and gas prices and pretend that rising murder rates
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: are not something that people are actually concerned about or
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: not a legitimate concern for people to have, because I
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: think you're seeing it in the polling everywhere that it
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: actually has become a concern for a lot of people.
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: Oh, of course.
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: Look, I agree that people are concerned about crime. People
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: always vote on crime. I think if you're going to
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: go for a shiny object in the midterm to tell
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: a story about Democrats who are soft on whatever, you're
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: going to go for like Chesa Boudin, who's the district
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: attorney in San Francisco, or you're going to look at
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: some of these other examples that seem You're going to
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: find some sort of detail in one of these stories
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: that is, you know, sounds terrifying and abstraction. I just
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: don't think you're going to get it at her because
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: she's incredibly good at this.
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: I just want Democrats to, to fight back on this
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: and not avoid it.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: Like I think, you know, Biden did in this, in
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: the state of the union, right? I mean, he's out there,
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: we're going to fund the police. We're not going to
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: fund the police. Biden's already getting ahead of these attacks.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Dan and I talked about that a little bit, but
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: what I wish he had done in the state of
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: the union is it's, it's fine to say I'm, I'm
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: against defunding the police. You can also talk about how
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: you're also for police reform and criminal justice reform. You
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: can be out there and say you can be pro-police
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: reform and also pro-public safety. For sure. We can keep
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: people safe from crime and police misconduct. That shouldn't be
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: a choice. And also, by the way, the six states
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: with the highest per capita murder rate all went for Trump. 2020.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: This whole thing is blue cities, blue states. It's Trump
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: states and Trump cities that have had higher murder rates
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: over the last couple of years. So don't make it
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: some Democrat run city thing.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: That is where I think that's on Democrats. That's also
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: that's on the media, which has fully kind of embraced
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: the right wing kind of talking points about where this
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: is coming from. The fact that that rural counties have
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: seen the same uptick that some of the more progressive
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: cities have seen. There are these jokes you see where
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: people say there's a moment now where I feel like
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: this right-wing idea that this is a failure of progressive
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: cities and not a broad national trend has been so
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: internalized that I hear it myself. I'm like, no, you
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: want to blame your local person. You want to blame
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: the mayor. You want to blame the DA. Fine, take
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: issue with whoever you want to take issue with. This
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: is a national problem. You are buying Tucker Carlson's talking points.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: And we have done a very bad job of pushing back.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Because we try to avoid the issue and say, oh,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: it's not a real issue. It's made up by the
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: right wing. So we avoid it instead of taking on
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: the argument, like you just said, and saying it's a
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: national issue. And by the way, it's even worse in
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: some red states.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: And look, a lot of this, again, goes back to
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: race because Republicans always go to look at Chicago, look
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: at the homicides there, right? They make it a city issue.
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: The challenge, I think, for Republicans who try to demagogue this,
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: maybe it'll be challenged, maybe it won't, is that you've
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: already got Tom Cotton out there attacking Donald Trump and
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: the first step back in the very limited criminal justice
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: reform that he put in place. So I don't know.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: It's sort of like a muddled message. I do think
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: that they're going to focus on cities and the fund
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: and all the things we've been hearing at midterms and
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: in the general election. I don't, you know, who's, who
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: knows if it'll work or not.
• 22:34
  Speaker 8: I agree.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: We should take it on. I just, um, my guess
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: is this hearing is not a part of that. Well,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I do think, I think the hearing is a lesson.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: And I think that the way that so far, uh,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: judge Jackson and the Democrats are handling it in this
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: hearing is good and effective. And it's a lesson for
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Democrats in the midterms.
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: Josh Hawley being an idiot made it easier because he
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: was so dishonest and so egregious with this stupid Twitter
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: thread that he, he embarrassed himself. I think he kind
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: of embarrassed McConnell and the party who were not, they were,
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: they were signaling that they didn't want to go down
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: this kind of gutter route, and then he just went
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: right there.
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: I agree.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like, stepping back from all this, what's
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: their strategy? Ted Cruz is mad about Kavanaugh and cancel culture.
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Josh Hawley's making up stuff about, you know, misquoting her
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: and trying to drum something up that's pretty heinous. They're
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: trying to soft on... Marsha Blackburn's on CRT. The answer is,
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: they're all over the fucking place because they think she's
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: going to end up on the Supreme Court.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: No, I thought it.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: Is it right?
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: I included that clip from McConnell at the beginning of
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: that supercut, which wasn't from today. It was from some other...
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Because I actually thought it was the only quote that
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: sort of summarized what they hoped the thing is, which
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: is just soft on crime. But all the yahoos on
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the committee, they all went their own route. They're yelling
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: about Kavanaugh. They're talking about CRT. I don't think it
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: was well coordinated.
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: And this is this is why being a Democrat's annoying,
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: because because of alliteration, we always get the Democrats disarray.
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: Republicans are all over the place. They're screwing up a
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: Supreme Court hearing with their mixed messages.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: And they're not playing a strong hand anyway. They don't
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: have a vote.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: She's eminently well qualified and they all just voted for her.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: And and, you know. the white house isn't saying right
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: but the hope here is that they get a couple
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: of republican votes they're not going to get josh hawley
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: but there's a few republicans here.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: They make it susan collins tom tillis from north carolina
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: was just glowing today about her which i was surprised
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: about you know i guess he just won re-election um
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: but said something really nice there's a couple retiring republican
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: senators you might get a vote or two.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: I think collins voted for her.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Right previously murkowski and graham yeah so we'll see and
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: graham's just out there whining like oh if you'd named
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: someone from south carolina i would have would.
• 24:31
  Speaker 8: Have voted for her like Okay.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Who knows?
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: Geography is all you care about? What a thoughtful way
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: to approach this.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: That guy's lost the plot. He could be a yes,
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: he could be a no.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't know. He could be.
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: When we come back, Lovett and I will talk to U.S.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy about the latest in COVID.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: COVID cases and hospitalizations in the U.S. are currently at
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: their lowest level since last summer. But with the even
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: more transmissible Omicron sub-variant BA. 2 causing a spike in Europe,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: the White House wants to prepare for a possible case
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: increase here by adequately funding the supply and distribution of vaccines, treatments, surveillance,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: and testing. Unfortunately, that funding was stripped out of a
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: government funding bill that passed the other week, and now
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Republicans say they won't support the COVID spending. Here to
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: talk to us about this madness, as well as where
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: we are in the pandemic, U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy.
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: Dr.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Murthy, welcome back to the pod.
• 25:28
  Speaker 8: Well, thanks so much. It's good to be back with you, John.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: It's good to have you.
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: Dr.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Fauci said over the weekend that we can expect BA. 2
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: to cause an uptick in cases here, but not another surge.
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: Do you agree?
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: And why do you think that might be the case?
• 25:42
  Speaker 8: Well, I do think that we should expect in the
• 25:45
  Speaker 8: months ahead, because COVID has not disappeared entirely, that there
• 25:49
  Speaker 8: will likely be rises in cases and falls in cases.
• 25:53
  Speaker 8: How high those case numbers go will really depend on
• 25:56
  Speaker 8: the nature of the variant and on our behavior, frankly.
• 26:00
  Speaker 8: But the key is that we are trying to prevent,
• 26:03
  Speaker 8: most importantly, people from ending up in the hospital and
• 26:05
  Speaker 8: losing their life to the virus. And the good news, John,
• 26:08
  Speaker 8: is that in our toolkit, we have these vaccines, boosters,
• 26:12
  Speaker 8: and treatments that actually work very well to protect people
• 26:15
  Speaker 8: from hospitalization and death. The real question is going to be,
• 26:18
  Speaker 8: can we get enough people to utilize these vaccines, boosters,
• 26:21
  Speaker 8: and treatments? We've got basically two-thirds of the country that's
• 26:25
  Speaker 8: gotten vaccinated with at least one shot and mostly two.
• 26:30
  Speaker 8: But we need people to get that third shot, that
• 26:32
  Speaker 8: booster dose, because especially with a variant like Omicron, it
• 26:36
  Speaker 8: turns out that third dose is especially helpful. And lastly, John,
• 26:39
  Speaker 8: we've made a lot of strides to making the therapeutics,
• 26:42
  Speaker 8: the oral and IV medicines available for people. And these
• 26:45
  Speaker 8: have been really a lifesaver, literally. But the key is
• 26:49
  Speaker 8: to keep all of this going, the vaccines, the boosters,
• 26:51
  Speaker 8: the medications that help save lives. We need to sustain
• 26:56
  Speaker 8: our funding for this. Otherwise, all the work that's been
• 26:58
  Speaker 8: put into discovering, manufacturing, and distributing these tools, unfortunately, will
• 27:04
  Speaker 8: go to waste if people don't have access to it.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: So that's the context for why public health officials have
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: been so alarmed to see this funding stripped out of
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: the spending bill that had to pass. Can you talk
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: a little bit more specifically, like what happens if Congress
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: doesn't put this money in place? What does it go
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: towards right now?
• 27:23
  Speaker 8: It's a really good question. And I'm glad we're talking
• 27:25
  Speaker 8: about this because one of the most important lessons that
• 27:28
  Speaker 8: we have learned from COVID, a lesson, frankly, that we
• 27:31
  Speaker 8: have been reminded of again and again whenever we've had
• 27:33
  Speaker 8: an outbreak, whether it's Ebola or Zika, is that we
• 27:37
  Speaker 8: have to not only think short-term, but also long-term when
• 27:40
  Speaker 8: it comes to public health. We've got to make sure
• 27:42
  Speaker 8: that we are not shortchanging the long-term investments we have
• 27:46
  Speaker 8: to make in everything from vaccine production to data infrastructure
• 27:49
  Speaker 8: to the partnerships that we need. And if we don't
• 27:52
  Speaker 8: get the funding to continue this effort, here's what you're
• 27:55
  Speaker 8: going to see. We are already... on the verge of
• 27:58
  Speaker 8: running out of money for the therapeutics. We've had to
• 28:01
  Speaker 8: actually reduce the distribution of some of the monoclonal antibodies,
• 28:05
  Speaker 8: because again, we don't have the funds to purchase more
• 28:08
  Speaker 8: of those. The second is we won't be able to
• 28:10
  Speaker 8: purchase more of the oral therapeutics, the Paxlovid in particular,
• 28:14
  Speaker 8: beyond the 20 million that we've already secured. That's a
• 28:17
  Speaker 8: highly effective medicine. We need to be able to get
• 28:19
  Speaker 8: more of that to make it available. When it comes
• 28:22
  Speaker 8: to vaccines and booster themselves, If there is a recommendation
• 28:26
  Speaker 8: that the FDA ultimately makes for another booster shot for
• 28:30
  Speaker 8: the broader population, we will not have enough money to
• 28:33
  Speaker 8: purchase and make available that additional booster shot for the
• 28:37
  Speaker 8: whole population. The list goes on. Testing is another area
• 28:40
  Speaker 8: where we've done a good job, I think, in making
• 28:43
  Speaker 8: sure people now have access to tests. We need to
• 28:45
  Speaker 8: sustain that. We saw how tough it was when people
• 28:48
  Speaker 8: didn't have sufficient access to tests in the early days
• 28:51
  Speaker 8: of Omicron. can't afford to live through that again. So
• 28:53
  Speaker 8: however you look at it, the funding is really critical.
• 28:56
  Speaker 8: And these are the most immediate needs. But we want
• 28:58
  Speaker 8: to continue our surveillance. Also, if we want to make
• 29:01
  Speaker 8: sure that we're investing in supporting the uninsured and making
• 29:05
  Speaker 8: sure that they don't have to pay in order to
• 29:07
  Speaker 8: get lifesaving treatments and vaccines, we have to make sure
• 29:10
  Speaker 8: that funding continues.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: What's the White House's plan to get this funding passed?
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, the Republicans sound like they don't want to
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: support it. Obviously, you can't get anything done in Congress
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: without 10 Republican votes in the Senate. Are there any
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: backup plans in case Congress acts like Congress and doesn't
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: get this done? Is there money that we can shift
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: from somewhere else? What's the plan?
• 29:33
  Speaker 8: It's a really good question, John. I will say that
• 29:36
  Speaker 8: multiple individuals from the White House, the Department of Health
• 29:39
  Speaker 8: and Human Services, across the board have been engaging with
• 29:42
  Speaker 8: the Hill for weeks in an effort to try to
• 29:44
  Speaker 8: move this legislation for funding forward in order to make
• 29:48
  Speaker 8: the case and help people understand why it's so dire
• 29:51
  Speaker 8: that we make sure there's not a funding gap here.
• 29:54
  Speaker 8: The truth is that we are actually quite limited in
• 29:57
  Speaker 8: what we can shift over if we wanted to take
• 30:00
  Speaker 8: the money that's actually allocated for states and local government
• 30:04
  Speaker 8: and community support and shift that over to vaccines and therapeutics,
• 30:08
  Speaker 8: that would actually require Congress to act as well, to
• 30:11
  Speaker 8: provide the authority to shift those funds. So this is
• 30:14
  Speaker 8: actually a difficult position. It's not like there is a
• 30:18
  Speaker 8: large pot of unused money that the administration at will
• 30:21
  Speaker 8: can take and supply for the vaccines and therapeutics and
• 30:25
  Speaker 8: fill that need entirely. So we really do need Congress
• 30:28
  Speaker 8: to act. This isn't a fire drill. This is the
• 30:32
  Speaker 8: real thing.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: So right now, Omicron is causing these massive case increases
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: in countries like South Korea that have had universal mask
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: mandates and some of the most restrictive public health measures
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: anywhere in the world. In January, Dr. Fauci, just back
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: from opening a biolab in Ukraine, said that Omicron will
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: at some point, he didn't, did his face move at all?
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Didn't even adjust at all. that everybody, regardless of what
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: public health measures are in place, will at some point,
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: that Omicron will find their way to them. Does that
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: make tools like vaccines and treatments more important than some
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: of these restrictions? There is a debate going on, right?
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: You see this data out of places like South Korea,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: which basically showed that like Omicron has obliterated public health
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: measures and what we're left with are therapeutics. We're left
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: with the vaccine. We're left with some of these treatments.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Where do you fall on that debate right now?
• 31:24
  Speaker 8: Well, look, one thing that this whole conversation points to
• 31:28
  Speaker 8: is that you've got to continue evaluating and updating your
• 31:31
  Speaker 8: guidance and your point of view as the data shifts
• 31:33
  Speaker 8: and as the virus shifts. And what we saw with
• 31:35
  Speaker 8: Omicron is that this is an incredibly transmissible virus, and
• 31:39
  Speaker 8: it does actually has evaded some of our immune response,
• 31:42
  Speaker 8: some of our vaccines and therapeutics at times. The good
• 31:45
  Speaker 8: news is we've found ways around that. But what you're
• 31:48
  Speaker 8: pointing at is that getting the vaccine and in particular
• 31:52
  Speaker 8: getting boosted is extraordinarily important in terms of saving lives
• 31:56
  Speaker 8: and hospitalizations when it comes to Omicron. It doesn't mean
• 31:59
  Speaker 8: that masks don't work. It doesn't mean that ventilation isn't important.
• 32:04
  Speaker 8: Those things still do reduce risk. But when you're dealing
• 32:07
  Speaker 8: with a tougher foe, what we have found is that
• 32:09
  Speaker 8: getting vaccinated and boosted, that is the best way to
• 32:13
  Speaker 8: reduce your risk of ending up in the hospital or dying.
• 32:16
  Speaker 8: So that's what we've got to focus on. If you
• 32:18
  Speaker 8: look at Hong Kong, if you look at in particular,
• 32:21
  Speaker 8: part of the reason they're seeing such a significant number
• 32:25
  Speaker 8: of people hospitalized and losing their life is because their
• 32:27
  Speaker 8: vaccination rate among the elderly is quite low, markedly lower
• 32:32
  Speaker 8: than ours, in fact. But in countries which had a
• 32:35
  Speaker 8: high vaccination rate, in particular those that chose a highly
• 32:39
  Speaker 8: effective vaccine, and we are blessed to have those here
• 32:41
  Speaker 8: in the United States, even though they may be seeing
• 32:44
  Speaker 8: a large wave of Omicron, there has been a disproportionately
• 32:48
  Speaker 8: a disproportionate rise in the hospitalization and deaths, meaning far
• 32:52
  Speaker 8: much more of an increase in cases and much less
• 32:54
  Speaker 8: of an increase in hospitalizations and deaths. That just shows
• 32:57
  Speaker 8: us that good vaccines are really the backbone of our
• 33:01
  Speaker 8: effort to protect people against Omicron and other variants of COVID.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I've heard some people ask, why did we relax public
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: health measures like mandatory indoor masking right before BA. 2 becomes
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: dominant here? Can you talk about the CDC's thinking in
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: changing their community transmission guidelines, because I think some of
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: the debate focuses on the politics of whether people are
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: tired of COVID or not, or want more masks or not.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: And in reality, the CDC, there was some science and
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: some public health thinking that went into changing those guidelines.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Can you talk about those for people?
• 33:35
  Speaker 8: Absolutely. And look, I can understand why people might be
• 33:39
  Speaker 8: asking questions and why some people may not feel comfortable
• 33:43
  Speaker 8: with the measures. We've been at this for two years
• 33:45
  Speaker 8: and People are actually, in many ways, there's quite a
• 33:49
  Speaker 8: diversity of thought among the general public in terms of
• 33:51
  Speaker 8: where they are. Some people want the pandemic to be
• 33:54
  Speaker 8: over yesterday and think that it already is. Other people
• 33:56
  Speaker 8: believe that the pandemic will never be over and that
• 33:58
  Speaker 8: we should never ratchet down our precautions. There are a
• 34:00
  Speaker 8: lot of people in the middle. But here's what to
• 34:03
  Speaker 8: know about why the CDC made its decision. From the
• 34:07
  Speaker 8: very beginning, the CDC had actually said that the guidelines
• 34:10
  Speaker 8: that it puts out for when to use measures like masks,
• 34:14
  Speaker 8: that that should reflect people's risk in the community. And
• 34:18
  Speaker 8: they have been looking at the evolving data to understand
• 34:21
  Speaker 8: what the risk actually is to people. We all knew
• 34:23
  Speaker 8: that when cases go down, that that means lesser risk,
• 34:26
  Speaker 8: that you may get infected from someone in their community.
• 34:29
  Speaker 8: But they were also reflecting, I think, our evolving understanding
• 34:33
  Speaker 8: that the most important goal that we have here is
• 34:36
  Speaker 8: to save lives and keep people out of the hospitals
• 34:38
  Speaker 8: to prevent the severe illness. And so in the beginning,
• 34:41
  Speaker 8: they had a metric for disease guiding them on precautions
• 34:46
  Speaker 8: that was based solely on cases. What they did is
• 34:48
  Speaker 8: they didn't jettison that. They didn't say, okay, case counts
• 34:51
  Speaker 8: no longer matter. They still have a measure of case
• 34:54
  Speaker 8: counts in their overall algorithm for determining community risk, but
• 34:57
  Speaker 8: they also now include hospitalization rates and hospital capacity. So
• 35:02
  Speaker 8: those three metrics together, cases, hospitalization rates, hospital capacity, this
• 35:07
  Speaker 8: reflects the updated data and our most important focus, which
• 35:11
  Speaker 8: is on saving lives and keeping people out of the hospital.
• 35:13
  Speaker 8: And that's what people are using now in communities across
• 35:16
  Speaker 8: the country. With all that said, one last point that's
• 35:18
  Speaker 8: really important to underscore. Their guidance does not mean that
• 35:22
  Speaker 8: people who choose to wear a mask in a particular situation,
• 35:26
  Speaker 8: because they're at high risk, or they live with somebody
• 35:28
  Speaker 8: who's high risk, that that is the wrong decision. In fact,
• 35:30
  Speaker 8: we want people to have the freedom to do that.
• 35:32
  Speaker 8: What's really key, though, is that they have access to
• 35:35
  Speaker 8: high quality masks. And that's why the administration's move to
• 35:38
  Speaker 8: make sure that millions of masks were distributed, high quality
• 35:42
  Speaker 8: masks and made freely available to people in the public
• 35:44
  Speaker 8: was so important because we don't want to create equity
• 35:47
  Speaker 8: issues by, you know, by not essentially providing the key
• 35:51
  Speaker 8: tools people need to protect themselves.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: And if you are vaccinated, boosted and wearing a high
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: quality mask like an N95 or a KN95, that is very,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: very protective, right? Even if other people around you aren't
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: necessarily wearing masks.
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 36:06
  Speaker 8: So, and let's talk about protective against what, right? If
• 36:09
  Speaker 8: you're a vaccine fully, if you have gotten your basic
• 36:12
  Speaker 8: series of the vaccine and you're boosted as well, then
• 36:15
  Speaker 8: your protection against hospitalization or death is very high. If
• 36:19
  Speaker 8: you are on top of that, wear a high quality
• 36:22
  Speaker 8: mask when you're with people outside your household, then your
• 36:24
  Speaker 8: risk goes down even further, even if they are not
• 36:27
  Speaker 8: wearing masks. And so this is, you know, we have
• 36:30
  Speaker 8: good tools is the bottom line and people are going
• 36:33
  Speaker 8: to make different decisions here. You know, some people, may
• 36:36
  Speaker 8: have a low sort of threshold of risk, and they
• 36:39
  Speaker 8: may decide, you know what, I'm going to keep wearing
• 36:41
  Speaker 8: my mask. And there may be different reasons for that.
• 36:43
  Speaker 8: Maybe they have a child at home like I do
• 36:45
  Speaker 8: who's under five, and they might be worried about them
• 36:47
  Speaker 8: because the vaccine's not available to them. Maybe they're a
• 36:49
  Speaker 8: caregiver for someone who's immunocompromised in their home, or maybe
• 36:53
  Speaker 8: they themselves are immunocompromised. And I make this point just
• 36:56
  Speaker 8: because we're going to see people moving at different rates
• 36:58
  Speaker 8: when it comes to their choices around some of these
• 37:01
  Speaker 8: mitigation measures. And it's really important that we not ridicule
• 37:03
  Speaker 8: people if they choose to wear a mask in school.
• 37:06
  Speaker 8: I'm actually a little bit worried about schools themselves because
• 37:09
  Speaker 8: you've got to make sure that kids also don't ridicule
• 37:12
  Speaker 8: others for wearing masks. If one family decides they want
• 37:15
  Speaker 8: their child to keep wearing masks, that's okay. You know,
• 37:17
  Speaker 8: we just have to realize that people are going to
• 37:18
  Speaker 8: go at different paces here.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: There's also a lot of people right now suffering from
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: long COVID and there's a lot of vaccinated and boosted
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: people worried about being infected at all because of the
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: potential that they might get infected with or develop long
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: COVID after an infection. What's the latest science on what
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: kind of protection vaccination offers against long COVID?
• 37:40
  Speaker 8: Look, it's an important question, and I wish we knew
• 37:42
  Speaker 8: the answer to every question about COVID-19. We've learned a
• 37:45
  Speaker 8: tremendous amount in the last two years. But long COVID
• 37:47
  Speaker 8: is one of the areas where we still need to
• 37:49
  Speaker 8: deepen our understanding here about the frequency of long COVID and, frankly,
• 37:53
  Speaker 8: about how long it lasts and about who's most at
• 37:56
  Speaker 8: risk for it. A couple of things that we do know,
• 37:58
  Speaker 8: based on the data, is that People's severity of infection
• 38:02
  Speaker 8: does seem to have an impact on whether or not
• 38:04
  Speaker 8: they're likely to develop long COVID. So more severe infections,
• 38:07
  Speaker 8: people tend to be more at risk for prolonged symptoms.
• 38:11
  Speaker 8: But we've also seen now in multiple studies that if
• 38:15
  Speaker 8: you get vaccinated and protection for vaccines and boosters, that
• 38:19
  Speaker 8: also lowers your risk significantly of getting long COVID, even
• 38:23
  Speaker 8: if you have a breakthrough infection. Does it reduce it
• 38:26
  Speaker 8: to zero? No, no vaccine or intervention is perfect. And
• 38:29
  Speaker 8: so for this reason also, I would understand why some
• 38:32
  Speaker 8: people may choose to be more cautious, because even though
• 38:35
  Speaker 8: we think it's a minority of people who get long
• 38:37
  Speaker 8: COVID syndrome, how small or large that minority is, that
• 38:41
  Speaker 8: is exactly what we're trying to understand. And there's not
• 38:43
  Speaker 8: full clarity around that. So being cautious, I think, is appropriate.
• 38:48
  Speaker 8: It's why we are still urging people, even though you
• 38:50
  Speaker 8: get great protection against hospitalization deaths from the vaccines, to
• 38:54
  Speaker 8: still take the precautions you can. to avoid spread because, again,
• 38:58
  Speaker 8: better to prevent an illness than to get into the
• 39:00
  Speaker 8: consequences thereafter.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: So just sort of cutting through, we've had a lot
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: of conversations about masks. We're talking about masks endlessly. The
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: administration is now desperately trying to get funding for some
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: of the most miraculous and incredible treatments in the history
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: of public health that millions of people aren't taking. They're
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: not getting boosted. Uh, the availability of some of these,
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: like this new Pfizer treatment, right? It's not available everywhere.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: It's not something you can just go to the pharmacist
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: and get. It needs to be dispensed carefully because there's
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: not enough of it. How did these two things go together?
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: If we get to the point where you can walk
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: into a CVS, get a test, and if it's positive,
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: even if you're not that symptomatic or not symptomatic at all,
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: you still get some kind of a treatment to lessen
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: the effect of COVID. If we get to the point
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: where that is, and everyone can get boosted and more
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: people have gotten boosted, Do you believe that would be
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: the end of this debate about masks? Because masks would
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: be for people who need to protect themselves, not as
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: a public health measure, but as a personal measure day
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: to day.
• 40:00
  Speaker 8: Well, I certainly think it will help a great deal.
• 40:02
  Speaker 8: You know, if you have vaccines and boosters readily available
• 40:05
  Speaker 8: to anyone who needs them, if you have effective or
• 40:09
  Speaker 8: therapeutics available to all who need them, then yes, you
• 40:13
  Speaker 8: could be in a scenario where the risk of a
• 40:15
  Speaker 8: bad outcome to the vast, vast majority of the population
• 40:18
  Speaker 8: would be low. And that would mean that we could,
• 40:21
  Speaker 8: you know, it would be easier and more comfortable for
• 40:23
  Speaker 8: people to pull back on mitigation measures. With that said,
• 40:26
  Speaker 8: there always will be, I think, some people for whom,
• 40:29
  Speaker 8: you know, the risk of getting COVID may be too great.
• 40:33
  Speaker 8: They may worry about long COVID. They may be immunocompromised
• 40:36
  Speaker 8: themselves and may have had difficult experiences with their health,
• 40:39
  Speaker 8: and that might lead them to be more cautious. And
• 40:42
  Speaker 8: And that's okay. But I lastly should mention that on
• 40:44
  Speaker 8: the therapeutics front, in terms of availability, every month since January,
• 40:49
  Speaker 8: the availability of these medications like Paxlovid, the highly effective
• 40:54
  Speaker 8: oral therapeutic, has actually been increasing. In fact, there are
• 40:58
  Speaker 8: more therapeutics right now than people are actually using. And
• 41:02
  Speaker 8: some of that is because cases are lower right now
• 41:04
  Speaker 8: than they have been. But what we want to be
• 41:06
  Speaker 8: prepared for is that if there is another way that
• 41:08
  Speaker 8: we have as much available for people as we need.
• 41:11
  Speaker 8: That's why, again, to come back to this funding piece,
• 41:14
  Speaker 8: we don't want to get behind on this. And one
• 41:15
  Speaker 8: of my worries, not just as Surgeon General, but frankly,
• 41:18
  Speaker 8: as an American, is I want my country to be
• 41:20
  Speaker 8: ahead of the game. I want us to not be
• 41:23
  Speaker 8: funding things on an emergency basis all the time. We
• 41:26
  Speaker 8: saw this with Zika. We saw this with Ebola. Back then,
• 41:28
  Speaker 8: we were talking about how much, how important it was
• 41:31
  Speaker 8: for us to make the proactive, forward-thinking investments in the
• 41:34
  Speaker 8: public health infrastructure so the country wasn't scrambling for funds
• 41:38
  Speaker 8: and for infrastructure when it needed it. And then in
• 41:40
  Speaker 8: the midst of a crisis, I worry that we may
• 41:43
  Speaker 8: be falling back into that same mindset again, thinking, okay,
• 41:46
  Speaker 8: you know, COVID seems to be getting better in terms
• 41:49
  Speaker 8: of cases. So we now no longer need to invest
• 41:51
  Speaker 8: in public health interventions and infrastructure. To me, that would
• 41:54
  Speaker 8: be the equivalent of saying, you know what, I feel
• 41:57
  Speaker 8: pretty fit right now. I've been working out three, four
• 41:59
  Speaker 8: days a week. So because I'm fit now, I don't
• 42:02
  Speaker 8: need to work out anymore. Well, if I did that,
• 42:04
  Speaker 8: then I would ultimately cease to become fit. And that
• 42:07
  Speaker 8: would put me at risk in terms of my health.
• 42:09
  Speaker 8: And that is what we seem to do so often
• 42:11
  Speaker 8: as a country. We need to break that cycle, start
• 42:14
  Speaker 8: thinking ahead, proactively funding the things that we need to fund.
• 42:17
  Speaker 8: And COVID has been a time where we, Congress didn't,
• 42:20
  Speaker 8: to give credit where credit is due, on a bipartisan
• 42:22
  Speaker 8: basis during the last two years, Congress has provided significant
• 42:25
  Speaker 8: funding for the COVID effort. And it's thanks to that leadership,
• 42:28
  Speaker 8: the sacrifices of people around our country, the incredible work
• 42:32
  Speaker 8: of scientists that we've made the progress that we have.
• 42:34
  Speaker 8: with vaccines, therapeutics, and so many other interventions. I just
• 42:38
  Speaker 8: don't want us to lose that progress. And I'll lastly
• 42:41
  Speaker 8: say this, look, my most painful moments as a doctor
• 42:43
  Speaker 8: were when I knew what a patient needed. I knew
• 42:48
  Speaker 8: what illness they had. I knew what medicine they needed
• 42:51
  Speaker 8: to save their lives and improve their health, but I
• 42:53
  Speaker 8: couldn't actually get it to them because they didn't have
• 42:56
  Speaker 8: insurance coverage or the medication wasn't available. I don't want
• 42:59
  Speaker 8: us to be in that situation again. I don't want
• 43:02
  Speaker 8: a doctor to have to tell a patient, you know,
• 43:04
  Speaker 8: I know how to save your life, but the country
• 43:06
  Speaker 8: doesn't have money to pay for the booster shot that
• 43:09
  Speaker 8: you need. Or we don't have money as a country
• 43:11
  Speaker 8: to put toward making sure that the medicines are available
• 43:14
  Speaker 8: that could save your lives and lives of your family.
• 43:17
  Speaker 8: It's a conversation we never should have to have because
• 43:20
  Speaker 8: we know how to solve this problem. We just gotta
• 43:22
  Speaker 8: make the smart investments now and not wait continually until
• 43:26
  Speaker 8: a crisis is upon us.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: It sounds like what you're saying is medically speaking, not
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: passing funding for boosters and treatments now is fucking stupid
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: and nuts.
• 43:35
  Speaker 8: Is that right?
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: Yes. Did we get him?
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: Did we get him on the record?
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: Dr.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Murthy, before he keeps going, thank you so much always
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: for coming on the show and walking us through this
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: with your... Calm analysis and advice. We appreciate it.
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: Stupid and nuts, right?
• 43:56
  Speaker 5: Stupid and nuts.
• 43:57
  Speaker 8: It is not the wisest decision for us as a country.
• 44:00
  Speaker 5: There we go.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Not the wisest decision.
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: We'll go with that.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: That's a yes.
• 44:03
  Speaker 5: That's a yes.
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: Subtitle it yes.
• 44:06
  Speaker 8: The bottom line is COVID is not quitting. We can't
• 44:08
  Speaker 8: quit either. And I just don't want to see us
• 44:11
  Speaker 8: go down that path because we've sacrificed too much, gotten
• 44:13
  Speaker 8: too far to give up now.
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Yell at Congress, everyone.
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: It's up to them.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: Thank you so much.
• 44:19
  Speaker 7: Thank you, Dr.
• 44:19
  Speaker 5: Murthy.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: We appreciate it.
• 44:20
  Speaker 8: Of course. Good to be with you anytime.
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: We are back with a very special edition of Take Appreciator.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: With so many bad takes this week, we figured we
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: needed an extra hand to sort through them. Joining us
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: now is director, comedian, and producer Judd Apatow, whose book,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Sicker in the Head, More Conversations About Life and Comedy,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: is out March 29th. And his new movie, The Bubble,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: comes out April 1st on Netflix. Judd, thanks for being here.
• 44:51
  Speaker 5: It's good to be here. Thank you for having me.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: It's good to have you. Before we play the game.
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: That was a weird energy. It was weird energy because
• 44:59
  Speaker 5: I realize you're videotaping it, but yet it feels like
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: you're not. Yeah, that's it. I was just watching an
• 45:04
  Speaker 5: interview I did where they did a Zoom, and in
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: my head, they weren't going to use the video, and
• 45:09
  Speaker 5: I'm looking straight down like a mental patient the whole
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: time because I don't think... that you're going to see
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: it and it looks crazy. Like I look like I'm
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: going to hurt somebody. Yeah.
• 45:19
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: Well, keep that in mind.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: We'll try to fix that. We can cut around that.
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: I just saw the bubble last night. I laughed very
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: hard throughout the movie.
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: And I realized that it's the first piece of entertainment
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: about life during the pandemic that didn't give me PTSD
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: and was actually enjoyable to watch. How did you guys
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: think about that aspect of the movie while you were
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: making it?
• 45:42
  Speaker 5: We just thought, At some point, someone will do a
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: comedy about this. Why not be the first person to try?
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: You did it.
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: What a terrible thing to throw yourself into. But I
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: really couldn't think of anything else to write about because
• 45:54
  Speaker 5: I felt like the world had changed and anything I
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: thought about didn't really exist anymore. And I did need
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: to work or I'd go crazy. So I thought I'd
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: just talk about isolation madness.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: And did you set out to mock the fact that
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: there is a documentary about the making of Don't Look
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: Up in a Bubble? Was that your goal, to rip
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: those people to pieces? To really expose them?
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: For their making of Don't Look Up?
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: To kind of embarrass them?
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: What's funny is, the whole time I was talking to
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: everyone else in production, like Adam McKay and the White
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: Lotus people and all the Jurassic people, and we were
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: all having that conversation, like, why are we even attempting
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: this now? That's what felt so weird, because they were
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: making movies. I was making a movie about how weird
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: it is to think you need to make a movie
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: at this time, but I am making a movie, so
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: I'm a hypocrite in the process of every minute.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: There were a lot of layers there. I liked it.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: I think of you, I assume that at some point
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: we will get the kind of leaked footage, like Tom
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: Cruise on set of you just screaming with all intensity saying,
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: we are saving Hollywood.
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: No, that's not what it would be. If someone videotaped
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: me or audiotaped me on set and released what I'm
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: really like, it would be me going, How can you
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: not bring the salsa with the burrito? I can't eat
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: this dry.
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: Why do you have a vaguely southern accent on set?
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: I thought that was like more Malibu-ish.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: Malibu?
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: When I'm angry, it changes.
• 47:26
  Speaker 8: It changes.
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: It turns into kind of an angry Jeff Bridges.
• 47:30
  Speaker 7: Angry Jeff Bridges.
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: Sure.
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: When you worked with Pete Davidson on The King of
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: Staten Island, did you think to yourself, future astronauts, I
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: guess on again, off again astronaut.
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: It does seem like the natural extension of what's happening
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: is that it all leads to space. But doesn't it
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: all lead to space for all of us? Like at
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: some point, don't you get on that list as well
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: where they just go, you guys want to do a
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: show in space?
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: I think it's kind of like the vaccine. It'll be really,
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: really hard to get it. And then all of a sudden,
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: it'll be really easy to get it. I'm going to
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: wait until then.
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: Now, let me ask a question about space generally. We're
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: the people to ask. Are we talking about space or
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: just like really high?
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like just beyond the atmosphere. Yeah, the Bezos one's
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: just really high, right? Or maybe they sold them. They
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: just put like a, you're looking outside the window of
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: the space shuttle and they're just.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: You know, Disney can take you to space. But it
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: does seem there's a subtle distinction between flying into space
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: and falling.
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: From very high up for a while.
• 48:32
  Speaker 5: Exactly.
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: And that seems to be more of the Jeff Bezos speed.
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: How close are we to the moon? Like if I'm
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: not pretty close to the moon, if Earth doesn't seem
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: really tiny and I'm not crying at the vastness of
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: the universe, aren't I really just flying high? Yeah. For
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: how much is it? What does it cost if you
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: paid to do this?
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: If you have to ask us too much.
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: Is it a few hundred grand? What do they charge?
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can't believe he's not going anymore just
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: because there was like a scheduling mishap. That happens? Like, oh,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: I was supposed to go to space, but then I just,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I had booked a movie, so I couldn't go.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: King of Staten Island 2.
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: I hope it's something promotional that benefits me that he's
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: doing instead of going to space. Like the new Blu-ray, the.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: New additional Blu-ray. I got to do one of the
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: last Blu-ray commentaries.
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: Exactly.
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: Something with Kanye, maybe.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Should we do this game? Let's do take appreciator. Elijah,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: is our chief take officer here?
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: There he is. Come on.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Hey, Elijah.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: Judd, this is Elijah.
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: Yes. Hello, Elijah. He's a young version of me. If
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: there's ever been a person that's me from the past,
• 49:38
  Speaker 5: it is Elijah.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: I think that's right.
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: Hi, Judd.
• 49:41
  Speaker 7: Hi, guys. You guys ready to play the game?
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: Of course.
• 49:43
  Speaker 6: Sure.
• 49:43
  Speaker 7: Sure. I'll explain how it works again real quick. I'm
• 49:46
  Speaker 7: going to share some notably bad punditry with you all.
• 49:48
  Speaker 7: The producers have seen these takes. Judd and the guys
• 49:51
  Speaker 7: have not. They'll give their reactions, then rate them on
• 49:53
  Speaker 7: a scale of one to four politicos. You already said
• 49:56
  Speaker 7: you're ready, so let's just get right into it.
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: Is one good or four good?
• 50:00
  Speaker 8: Four.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: So these are bad takes. So four is the take
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: is so bad.
• 50:05
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: And so intentionally bad because we're appreciating really bad takes
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: that you're going to give it the four.
• 50:10
  Speaker 8: The art form is so awful.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: The four politicos, it's a full playbook, we call it.
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, okay.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: Does that make sense to you? You understand our ridiculous
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: inside joke. We're talking about the politico.
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: I get it. I love it. I love it.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: It's a congressional rag. Playbook is their morning digest. We
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: poke fun.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: It's a tip sheet.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: It's a tip sheet, if you will.
• 50:31
  Speaker 5: I give this 11 axioses.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: There we go.
• 50:34
  Speaker 9: There we go.
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: Perfect.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: We caught it up.
• 50:37
  Speaker 7: All right, let's jump into it. This first one caused
• 50:39
  Speaker 7: quite a stir. It's from the New York Times. It's
• 50:42
  Speaker 7: a piece titled, America Has a Free Speech Problem. All right,
• 50:46
  Speaker 7: so here's a quote from the piece. For all the
• 50:48
  Speaker 7: tolerance and enlightenment that modern society claims, Americans are losing
• 50:53
  Speaker 7: hold of a fundamental right as citizens of a free country,
• 50:56
  Speaker 7: the right to speak their minds and voice their opinions
• 50:59
  Speaker 7: in public without fear of being shamed or shunned.
• 51:02
  Speaker 5: Well, you know what? The New York Times doesn't know
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: what the fuck they're talking about. What a bunch of
• 51:05
  Speaker 5: stupid fucking douchebags.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: You assholes.
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: You assholes, New York Times.
• 51:12
  Speaker 8: Clip it.
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: Clip it. Wait a second. Wait a second. I just
• 51:17
  Speaker 5: was allowed to do that.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: It seemed like you could do it.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: You were allowed to do that.
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: I guess maybe they're wrong because this is airing somewhere.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: You may be shunned.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: You could be shunned.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: You definitely could be shunned.
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: Oh, no. The shunning. Yeah. The shunning blowback is about
• 51:30
  Speaker 5: to happen. I don't even know if I'm right now.
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: Here's the thing.
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: Call me in a week. Let me know if I'm
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: still in the business.
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Judd, here's a question for you. If you were
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: one day shunned, how long would it take for you
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: to find out?
• 51:43
  Speaker 5: Exactly. No one knows who I am to shun me.
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: I would not know. Here's the thing I'm learning as
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: I get old. It's really good to be under the
• 51:53
  Speaker 5: radar for the most part. You don't really want people
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: to pay that much attention to you. You want Just
• 51:59
  Speaker 5: enough attention that you might get into a restaurant when
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: it's crowded. But you don't want more than that. And
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: it's okay if that only happens one out of ten times.
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: You beg the maitre d' and show them your IMDB page.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: I have reached that level. But because my name is
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Jon Favreau, like the actor and director, so sometimes I'm
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: let into the crowded restaurant because they thought it was him.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: But when it's just me, they don't care.
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: But does it work like this, you say? The Jon
• 52:28
  Speaker 5: Favreau party. And then they're like, oh, is your party here? Yeah,
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: they're coming. And then they sit down and they expect
• 52:33
  Speaker 5: Jon Favreau to come. And then you're like, no, I'm
• 52:36
  Speaker 5: the Jon Favreau party.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: It's usually just their face drops when they see me.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, it's Jon Favreau.
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: And they're like, oh. Or they're like, Jon Favreau must
• 52:43
  Speaker 5: be working on some movie. Yeah, he's got a real
• 52:47
  Speaker 5: good shape.
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: You're an Avenger now. I give it two politicos.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Two politicos? Give your reasoning, Tommy.
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: Because it's stupid, but it's just so tediously stupid that
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: I just, I don't care anymore. I can't do the
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: same cancel culture debate from the New York Times or
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: anybody else. It's just, how many times are we going
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: to have this?
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, is that I did not read the
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: entire editorial. I read about half of it. And that
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: opening that Elijah read was like, you know, in the Constitution,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: you know, the freedoms, it's like... The freedom to assemble
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: and freedom of the press and freedom to not be
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: shunned or shamed. I'm just like, look, I thought it
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: was a dumb editorial. I also think that people got
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: to stop letting themselves get triggered by the New York
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Times a little bit. If you want to cancel your
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: subscription to the New York Times, that's fine. You can
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: cancel if you want. But I would just say that
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: maybe don't subscribe to a newspaper just to make sure
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: that the opinions columns are right in line with your views.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Subscribe because of the journalism in the paper.
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: I remember Roger Ebert saying heavyweights wasn't good. Was that
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: cancel culture?
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: No, Tommy's right. It's the ill-defined, vague nature of this
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: debate is what makes it infuriating.
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: I feel like people have been trying to cancel me
• 53:56
  Speaker 5: from day one, and I was canceled all the time.
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: Freaks and Geeks was canceled. Ben's Solution was canceled.
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: Undeclared was canceled.
• 54:02
  Speaker 5: Is that cancel culture?
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: I'll give it three. Still should go back to the game.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: Still Wizards of Elijah? Yeah.
• 54:11
  Speaker 5: I'll give it, I'm bored. I'm bored of the New
• 54:15
  Speaker 5: York Times talking about it. Why don't they just talk about, like,
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: shouldn't everyone get the day off to vote? And just
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: write about that every day for a year. There you go.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: National holiday.
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: And we, like, give Columbus Day to the voting thing.
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: You know, you get rid of Columbus Day, and you
• 54:30
  Speaker 5: give everyone the day off, and then we just vote.
• 54:32
  Speaker 7: Easy with that. I'm Italian, so let's hold the brakes
• 54:36
  Speaker 7: on that.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, no. Cancel Elijah.
• 54:39
  Speaker 7: Cancel.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: What do you got? Give us another take, Elijah.
• 54:41
  Speaker 7: All right, this one needs some context. Let's go to
• 54:43
  Speaker 7: a place where we definitely need some shaming and possibly shunning.
• 54:47
  Speaker 7: The Ohio Republican Senate primary. This weekend during a debate,
• 54:52
  Speaker 7: Republican Senate frontrunners Mike Gibbons and Josh Mandel almost got
• 54:55
  Speaker 7: into a physical altercation on stage. Mandel got out of
• 54:58
  Speaker 7: his chair and got about an inch from Gibbons' face.
• 55:01
  Speaker 7: To paint a picture, Gibbons is about 70 years old.
• 55:03
  Speaker 7: They had a dude off. Gibbons told Mandel, you're dealing
• 55:07
  Speaker 7: with the wrong dude, man, to which Mandel replied, No,
• 55:10
  Speaker 7: you're dealing with the wrong guy. Then one of them
• 55:13
  Speaker 7: called the other one a pussy. It's unclear who. The
• 55:15
  Speaker 7: whole time J.D. Vance was shifting around uncomfortably in his seat.
• 55:21
  Speaker 7: This one's really more about that setup than the actual take.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Was there a take here? Was there a take?
• 55:25
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: You just wanted to tell that story, didn't you?
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Where did this happen? I missed this.
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: It happened in Ohio.
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: Ohio Senate.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Republican Senate debate.
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: In the middle of the Senate debate. And the J.D.
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: Vance movie was wonderful. Do you think Ron Howard sits
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: around going like, I guess I didn't quite understand what
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: I was dealing with there.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: Room for a sequel.
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: The wardrobe was interesting.
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: It's like the lawyer in the movie about the Atlanta bombing, right?
• 55:56
  Speaker 5: That's the same guy who was part of January 6th, right? Yeah.
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: What's his name?
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: That's a connection I'm really understanding that you're making.
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: Remember, he represented the Atlanta bomber. That's right. Richard Jewell? Yeah.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: But he wasn't the bomber.
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: He was the bomber. But Richard Jewell, who was not
• 56:14
  Speaker 5: the bomber. Not the bomber. Well, he's dead. He can't
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: sue now.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: But still just to get it right. Just for his memory.
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: Lin Wood. Lin Wood. Lin Wood. So now suddenly that
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: movie's a little different because you're like, come on, Lin Wood.
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: And anyone whose full name sounds like one small town
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: is weird.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: So it's the take the dude off?
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: What's the fucking take, Elijah?
• 56:38
  Speaker 7: I haven't even gotten to the take. The take is, remember,
• 56:40
  Speaker 7: Josh Mandel almost started playing with a 70-year-old man. The
• 56:43
  Speaker 7: take is three things are true. One, Josh Mandel is
• 56:46
  Speaker 7: a national embarrassment. Two, Josh Mandel is the second worst
• 56:49
  Speaker 7: candidate for the Republican primary.
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: J.D.
• 56:51
  Speaker 7: Vance is worst. Three, Josh Mandel would still be a
• 56:55
  Speaker 7: better senator than Democratic candidate Tim Ryan.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: Is that a take from Mike Gibbons?
• 57:02
  Speaker 7: It's not. Whose take is that?
• 57:06
  Speaker 8: One, two, three.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: Hugh Hewitt.
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: Nope.
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: No, no, he wouldn't.
• 57:09
  Speaker 7: It is a bad pundit, though.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: Now we're just into random guessing. Okay, give us the.
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: Give us the name.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Take person.
• 57:18
  Speaker 7: Dan McLaughlin.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: Baseball crank.
• 57:20
  Speaker 8: Baseball crank.
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: I feel like Glenn Close should be the senator for...
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: But in that character from the J.D. Vance movie. That's good.
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: In the full mumu. She had to be in the mumu.
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: She has to talk like that every time she's on
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: the Senate floor. Wow.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Baseball crank sucks. He gets three.
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: I give that four. As much as I dislike J.D. Vance,
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: Josh Mandel would be far worse as a senator. He's
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: a bona fide lunatic.
• 57:47
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah.
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I'm going to give that one Politico in
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: part because it's not It's a complicated take for a
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: simple situation.
• 58:01
  Speaker 5: There you go. There you go.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: All right, last take, Elijah.
• 58:03
  Speaker 7: All right, this one's short and sweet. It's just a tweet.
• 58:08
  Speaker 7: The real March Madness is taking place in Ukraine at
• 58:11
  Speaker 7: the hands of Putin aggression.
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: Oh, no.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: Damn it, why?
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: Judd, why did you tweet that?
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it. The handle was at Judd Apatow with
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: that trademark wit.
• 58:23
  Speaker 5: Twitter is not what it used to be. I feel
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: like I want to start a new Twitter account where
• 58:28
  Speaker 5: I only follow like film nerds. Like I want to
• 58:32
  Speaker 5: remove everyone. Like now I just have hundreds of angry people.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: I feel with that too.
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: Like should I have a completely different account just for
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: like when cats make noises that sounds like words, you know?
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: Like I need the happy Twitter space.
• 58:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: No, I think that's right.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: I think that's right. Elijah, who tweeted that?
• 58:51
  Speaker 7: Mark Knoller.
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: I know Mark well, CBS News broadcaster.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: Twitter gets the best of him. It just breaks everyone.
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: In fairness, it is madness and it is taking place
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: in March. You know, I don't enjoy the pun. I
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: don't think it was necessary.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think he was trying, so I'm giving it
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: one because I don't think he was trying to spit
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: out a bad take there.
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: Judd, would you ever bring yourself a tweet, a photo
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: of a chalk drawing that says, in a world of Putin's,
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: be a Zelensky?
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: In a world of Putin?
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: In a world of Putin's, be a Zelensky. Do you
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: find that inspiring? It makes me want to kill myself.
• 59:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think this raises a question that I keep
• 59:35
  Speaker 5: thinking about, which is maybe humor should be eliminated.
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: No, I'm not against it.
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: No, all humor. No, I'm saying, I'm not joking. I
• 59:49
  Speaker 5: feel like, do you think that we don't actually get
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: to the root of everything we should know and care about?
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: And do we not inform ourselves because... Putin on a
• 59:58
  Speaker 5: horse becomes a joke for five years. And then we
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 5: don't really go, oh no, he's the devil. And he's
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 5: preparing mass slaughter and we made him, you know, like
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 5: a funny villain.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: We've had experience with that here.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: Well, Kim Jong-un, Kim Jong-il, right?
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 8: Similar deal.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: The sunglasses, the hair, the outfits, you laugh it off
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: instead of saying, oh, you know, they're killing millions of people.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 5: We need, I mean, obviously we have to process things
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 5: and we need some of that. But I do, when
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: things get really bad, you're like, We probably should have
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 5: informed people about what's actually happening right now.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: This fucking guy makes a whole career out of comedy.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: Shut the door behind him.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: Judd's trying to cancel humor here on Puts in America.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 5: I'm canceling myself. I'm taking myself out of the equation.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: The book is sicker in the head.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 5: That's my final project before I leave the business. Humor
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 5: has let us down.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: You're going to do your one hour photo. You're going
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: to do your insomnia. You're going to do your serious kick.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 5: It's time.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: This Is 50 is going to be incredibly serious. Very sad.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: I'm going to go to a place that no one
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 5: wants me to go. You know, I consider myself, you know,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: I always say I consider myself the Michael Jordan of
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 5: stand-up comedy because I'm really.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: For baseball.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 5: For baseball. For baseball. Because no one knows why I
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: do it. I won't stop and I'm not good at it.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: Can I ask you a question?
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: Can I ask you another question?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: How proud were you as a dad when you got
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: the text from Maude saying that she was in Euphoria?
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 5: Let me tell you, any time your child gets a job,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 5: you're like, okay, employment. And then, well, the important call is,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: I play the nice girl.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: Then you're okay.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: The bad call is, hey, dad, next season, they've decided
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 5: my character takes a turn. And then that's where you
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: get concerned. Have you seen it? Have you watched it?
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 5: Have you gotten through it all? Not yet. Okay. They
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 5: really kind of pull it off. I mean, if you
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: watch the two years.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: I watched the first season and I'm trying to steal
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: myself for the second season because it's a lot.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 5: It's pretty remarkable what he did. If you look at
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 5: it as a two-year story. Okay. It's really fantastic.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: The first season was incredible. I mean, I want to.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: You've got to write headspace for it.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: Well, as a parent, I mean, anytime you see that.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: But then I think about what we were doing at
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 5: Sias at High. What were we doing?
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: What were you guys doing?
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: Nintendo 64?
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 5: A shitty weed. I was stealing people's radar detectors.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: I think you and I had a different experience. I
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: think you and I had a different couple of years
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: at Siazan High School.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: Were you on the debate team? No, but I was
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 5: the president of the school radio station.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: So I out-nerded you, my friend.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: You did.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: And you have. Yes.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: And you will. I will continue to.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: Judd Apatow, thank you for joining Pod Save America here
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: in studio.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: We appreciate it.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: Everyone go see The Bubble. Bye, sicker in the head.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: and thank you also to Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: for joining us. We did have another serious guest.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: Thank you to.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: Who has already canceled humor.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: Is this better or worse than your SmartList interview?
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 5: Do you know that he was the consultant? He worked
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 5: for Netflix. When we made the bubble, when I had
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 5: to make calls with the cast to say, how do
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 5: we do this safely? Dr.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: Murthy did it?
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 5: That is who we spoke to.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 7: Wow.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 5: Because you can't ignore him.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: And he's like, it's not real.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: He's wonderful.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 5: And we didn't have one case.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 5: The entire year.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 8: Wow.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: So he knows his stuff.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: That was his advice.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: Hey, if you don't know, it can't hurt you.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 8: That's Dr.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: Murthy for you.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: That's a tip from Dr.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 5: Murthy. Yes.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: In between his stints as Surgeon General, don't test. It's
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: best not to know.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 5: All right, everyone.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: We'll talk to you Thursday.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: Bye.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 5: Bye. Bye.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: Our producer is Haley Muse, and Olivia Martinez is our
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: associate producer. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks to
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montooth. Our
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crookedmedia.