Latest / Beyond The Ceremony: Modern Celebrancy. Unfiltered. / Beyond The Ceremony Podcast Episode 13: The Relationship Between Celebrants and Photographers
Transcript
- Okay, so welcome back to another episode of beyond the ceremony, and today I am joined in the studio by the fabulous Jodie from Jodie heard photography. Hey, Jodie. Hello. So thank you so much for getting in touch about coming on the podcast. Because I feel like this is a big topic. Celebrants working with photographers now, obviously a lot of what we talk about today is going to apply to weddings, because there's not many opportunities where at a funeral, you'd have a photographer, but also you could apply a lot of what we're talking about to like naming ceremonies as well, or van renews, that kind of thing. But we will probably be focusing mainly on weddings today. So first of all, Jodie, just tell us a little bit about you. Tell us a little bit about your photography business. I've photographed over 500 weddings now, wow, oh my gosh, amazing. I've been doing it a very long time. So you're a beginner, yeah, she's old. I am, yeah. Mainly focus on natural kind of approach to photography, so getting the emotions of the day, that sort of thing, yeah, lovely. Which obviously ties in really well with celebrants, which we will come on to. So why photography? Where did it all start? My dad was a photographer, really? Yeah, he grew up being a photographer. His boss actually photographed and worked with the Beatles. Wow, oh my gosh. That is amazing. And is it mainly weddings that you do, or do you do all sorts of photography, mainly weddings? Yeah, I used to have a studio for our kids, but now just mainly weddings. Yeah, nice. That's what I love. And I guess flexibility a bit as well. Does that happen around the kids a little bit easier? Yeah? Yeah. I think that's the thing a lot of people, we talk about it all the time, that people who go into celebrants here looking for a little bit more flexibility. And of course, as we all know, you work very hard when the kids are asleep or they're at school, yeah, but it is really nice being able to have a career that kind of gives you that flexibility around the children too. Yeah, definitely. So what came first photography, or kids photography? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're doing it already, and then decided, actually, it's time to have kids. And it worked. Well, yeah, I finished the studio and then decided to have the kids. I knew I couldn't do both. Yeah, I had to pick. But yeah, the kids came after. Photography has been there since I was a teenager. Oh my gosh, that is amazing. What is it about wedding photography in particular that you love people? Yeah, always love photographing people. And weddings give you, like, so many emotions, and it's a roller coaster. So it gives me every kind of emotion to photograph so and they're just so happy. Everyone's happy. Yeah, that's nice. And then I guess your style, then you've touched on it a little bit. But are you more that kind of natural documentary style. Yeah, very much blend into the background as much as possible. But then, obviously, when I'm needed, I'm there for groups and couple shots and things like that, but the rest of it, I always say to my couples, the more fun they have, the more relaxed they are, the photos will naturally reflect that. Anyway, yes, absolutely. And that is a great mantra to have. I like that. So I was going to ask you then about your experience of working with celebrants. So can you just talk to me a little bit about that, about how you might have worked with celebrants in the past, or how you might work together on a wedding day? Yeah, they're becoming more popular, like, slowly, I had one last week. I've actually got on this Saturday, amazing. So they're getting more and more popular, but I definitely love the approach they have. It's a lot different and way more fun. Yeah, yeah. And what would you say in terms of that rise in popularity? Why do you think that is I think people just want things a little bit different. A lot of couples don't look forward to the ceremony. If it's just a registrar led, they're very nervous, and that kind of adds to it, whereas, if it's someone they know they've been through, they know the format, and they know what's coming, and it just make, yeah, I think you get to learn more about the couples, and it's just a lot more interesting. So, yeah, absolutely. And I think, like you say that rise recently is much more obvious, like when, I mean, I trained in 2019 and I remember a lot of my kind of initial conversations with couples were explaining the differences between a celebrant and what the I know. People I talk to, they still, they don't know the difference. And I'm always explaining, yeah, yeah. And you, you team celebrant. I am Yes, absolutely I do. I do love the registrar's Somerset. They are absolutely lovely. But I just feel, yeah, it adds something really different to the day. And it's the first part of the wedding, it's, it's the very start of the day, so I feel like it sets the bar then for the rest of the day, rather than kind of, oh, let's get the ceremony over and done with. That's the boring part. Yeah, it kind of sets that bar, like, straight away, yeah, it sets the vibe that's good. And exactly like you say, you know, there'll be a lot of registrars that work with the couple and do as much as they can, but we understand, as celebrants, there's just a complete difference in terms of, you know, the number of weddings that they're going to be doing. Yeah, registrars go and do multiple weddings in a day. Chances are we'll be doing, you know, one, yeah, some celebrants might do two in a day, but most of the time, we tend to just do that once we know that there's certain restrictions and things like that. So talk to me, I guess, then, about the flexibility as a photographer, if you come to a wedding and you're working with the celebrant like, what are the kind of benefits of that? I think a lot more celebrants are happy with photographer moving around, then we're more comfortable with that, whereas with a registrar led ceremony, you feel a little bit more on edge as a photographer that you've kind of got, it's the legal part. Is a lot more pressure. Yeah, they don't like you moving at all, especially. During the legal wording, which I get. But obviously with the celebrant ceremony there, it's so much more relaxed. The whole feel is so much more relaxed, yeah. So as a photographer, you can get multiple angles move around a little bit more discreetly, yes, definitely. But it's nice that you can get those different angles, yeah, yeah. And I think that's the thing for us as celebrants. I think when once you've done a few ceremonies, at least, and you kind of know a bit more what you're doing, you know how to work with the photographer as like a team to make sure that you are getting those best shots. So I guess for that aisle entrance, I will always make sure that I'm out the way, so that you guys have got that flexibility, yeah, and that you can make sure that you're getting the shot, because after the wedding itself, we're not going to be the ones that are going to be up on the wall. It's going to be those beautiful first kiss photos or that entrance, or the first time they clock eyes and things like that. So I guess kind of understanding that relationship is really important. Definitely. Yeah, and what do you think? What would you say are kind of the basics that you need to get from a celebrant on a wedding day? So would you need, like, a conversation before the ceremony? Would you need to catch up the week of like, what do you think we should be doing as celebrants to kind of make sure that we're working together with our photographers? I think it's good to connect before, just to touch base, yeah, especially if you've got, like, a list of everything what's happening during the ceremony, just so that we photography have to be one step ahead everything that's happening. So that means moving into the correct position. So if you know what's coming next, you can be in the right position to capture that moment. So I think the communication is really important, yeah, even on the day, just if it can be a bit little bit frantic right before, yeah. But even on the day, I will try and catch up and just quickly run through what where they would like to stand for the majority of the ceremony, yeah, so that I can work around them. It's kind of like a little dance routine, yeah? So you can work together so you're, yeah, in the right place at the right time, yeah, making sure that we're kind of putting them in that position, because I think that's the thing as well. It's like during the ceremony, I quite like to make sure that the couple are moving a little bit. So I'll put them during their love story. I'll put them together to one side of the eyes, so that they have that little moment. And I guess for you, then, as a photographer, you get moments of them actually stood next to each other, yes, in a bit more of a relaxed setting, a bit more of a bubble, yeah. And then we bring them back to the center for the things like the vowels and the ring exchange, and that's where we'll have that kind of triangular formation. That's, I guess, that traditional wedding feel. Yeah. So I guess talking to the photographer is so important, so that you're aware of where the positioning is going to be, yeah, or any other extra elements that you add in, yeah, good for us to again know, so that we're in the right place at the right time. Yeah, absolutely. I remember there was one I did recently, and the couple had their dog who was going to come and be it wasn't he, was she? Sorry, she was the ring bearer, but she also was gonna, like, see all the deals. So they put their two hands, and then the dog put her paw on top. Oh yeah, but we practiced it, and they practiced it at home. And then in the moment, she wasn't gonna do it, and then all of a sudden, she did it, but super quick. And I said to the photographer afterwards, I was like, did you get it? And she was like, literally, just Yeah. And I don't know if you have a setting where you could just like, go, yeah. Many times yeah, press the button as fast as possible, yes, definitely, yeah. But the fact that she got it, whereas, actually it's like, if she wasn't aware of that moment coming up, she might have missed it, and they're not going to have that photo, even though it did happen for a split second, yeah, whereas, actually she managed to capture that moment. And I was so impressed. I was like, how you got that? Because it was lightning fast, yeah, because you could be around the bat. You don't know what angle is necessarily going to happen. So, like I said, you could have the backs of them and you don't want that. You want that moment. Yeah, absolutely. So what are kind of the things that when we are discussing with our couple that kind of movement during a ceremony, what are the things that we should consider to help them get the best possible photographs? I think it's always, especially if you're taking them off to one side, yeah, if someone else is speaking, it's nice they stand together. Yes, I always say to my couples during drinks reception, like, try and stay together. Imagine there's like a rope around you, yeah, and you work the kind of room together gives an opportunity for the photograph to get, like, natural shots. Of course, you two together. So definitely, when someone else is talking reading, it's nice for you to then position them in in a place that we can get that kind of that decent angle. And you know, the glances they have at each other and they hold hands and stuff like that, you can get some lovely shots, especially if the readings are emotional, like the story you're telling, yeah, that's really important to capture, so that's something we can consider them, making sure that they get those little moments together. Yeah, yeah, lovely. And then talk to me about this as a like, complete beginner, complete novice. How can we make sure that in our kind of creation of a ceremony, that we're getting the lighting right? I know you are the professionals with that, but I was talking to a photographer yesterday, and we were talking about a different venue, and she was like, Oh, the lighting there is awful. And I was like, Oh, well, during our ceremony, we moved to this bit. She was like, Oh, that was good. Yeah, we got a bit more light. Is there any way that we can think about that as beginners, or should we just speak to you before the ceremony? If possible? I mean, you can try and be conscious of it. If it's a beautifully sunny day, it's actually best to have the sun behind the couple. Most important is definitely they're both either in sunlight or both in shade. Okay, that's great, yeah, not one or the other, because. That's really hard to do the editing for, yeah, and get the light balance back again. Yeah. It's always, I always kind of try, like, we're outside, I'm like, can they be in shade? Both be in the shade, both be in the sun, yes. So that's always, that's probably the main tip. I think, yeah, that's good, yeah. And I guess for me, like, I say when I get them to move one side of the aisle or the other, especially if we're outside, I'll look which one's shadiest? Yeah, outside instead, yeah, yeah. That's a good tip, because, like I say, we are going to leave that to you as the experts. Yeah, things like lighting. But actually, if we know that we're in charge of moving the couple during that ceremony and guiding them, or readers and things like that, if we can make sure that they haven't got a big window behind them or stuff like that, if possible, yeah, then obviously that's going to help you guys get those kind of better shots. Yeah, in registrar led ceremonies, I think it's difficult, they don't guide as much. Yeah? So someone will come up to do a reading. The person doing the reading doesn't know where to stand, yeah, couple don't know where to stand, yeah? And there's just this awkward, like, shuffle of everyone, yeah. And as photography, we go with it, but it's just nice, like, for you to be able to guide the couple through, yeah, to stand and whoever's coming up to do a reading. Yeah, it's nice for you to give that guidance, whereas normally in a ceremony, don't get it. So, yeah, definitely. So if, for example, I'm just thinking about a ceremony I did a few weeks ago. It was at kin house, and they basically had, like, if people don't know that venue, they've basically got glass windows all down one side, and then they've got a normal wall down the other that's got, like, plants on it. It's in their garden room. Yeah. So for example, if I've got the couple and a reader, and I'm going to put one one side of the aisle, one the other, so one of them is going to have their back to the window. What's the preference? Do you always think it's better to have the couple with their back to the window? Or do you think, because you might get a lot of other shots of the couple, is it better to have the reader? Like, what do you think? What would you choose if we had to put somebody? Oh, it's really hard without knowing, but yeah, I would probably put them, not in the sunlight, yeah, yeah, it's a tricky one that is so hard. Yeah, it is tricky because I think that's always the question we get asked if they're having readings, they will always say, Where shall I stand? And it's always something that we will talk through with them before the ceremony. So if we kind of know, okay, what's the photographer going to prefer them in the light? Or do we just put them in the middle the readers? Do you like that? And then the couple to one side? Or not? I don't know. I personally like it, the couple to one side and the reader slightly to one side, Yeah, lovely. Then I can shoot from behind the reader, yeah, the couple looking at the reader, yeah. And then I can shoot just the couple, and then I can switch around, and if there's enough space, I can get behind the couple and shoot the reader. So it kind of gives me that storytelling, storytelling element, nice, lovely. In the photos, those reactions, yeah, that's lovely. So I guess then something that I've learned from hearing this conversation, space is really key, so trying to give as much space as possible, yeah. And that's always something as well that you know you learn as you go along. But actually, for new celebrants, it's like they need to be aware of how much space they're leaving between the ceremony arch themselves, yeah, and then the couple, yeah. And also really trying to make sure that the couple stay as central as possible, because they drift around a bit. Yeah, I do like everything symmetrical. And top of the aisle, I like it as symmetrical. So, yeah, definitely the center. So what you I mean? I as a rule of thumb, when I go through with one partner, normally, if I've got one part partner waiting and the other one's going to be making an entrance, yeah? Normally, with that partner, I'll be like, right, okay, let's have a quick run through of positioning, and I kind of put them in charge of it, yeah? Because then whoever's walking down the aisle, they don't have to worry about it. And I kind of say arms width from myself. So I'll kind of put myself in the middle of the arch, yeah. Then I'll put an arm's width either side, like a bit of a triangle, and I'll get them to stand one either side. Do you think that's enough space, or I'm trying to do a bit more? I would say, just do a bit more further, yeah, yeah, a bit further, yeah. And then we've got room then for the photographer to come in at both sides. Yeah. I think the other thing we struggle with is photographers is, if the registrar, it happens a lot more registrars, yeah, they tend to move and face the person, obviously they're talking to, yes, of course. And obviously, when they move, we have to move, yeah, and they move. So there's a lot of movement going on, yeah? But for us, it's a lot easier during those parts if you just stay still. Okay, great. Kind of, yeah. Not everyone's kind of all over the place, yeah, perfect. And I think that's the other thing as well. Couples, naturally, not all of them, but a lot of them will look at us when they're saying the vows, repeating after us, and their ring is changing. We're like, look at each other. Yeah, each other, yeah. And I think that's the thing, exactly like you say, if we stay still, we're not distracting them by moving, yeah? You can move around us, and then we can get the couple to make sure they're facing each other. Yeah, definitely. So yeah, that's good. I like that. Okay, we just need to go and do a ceremony together now, Joe, yeah, we'll make it perfect. So what do you think then, in terms of how having a celebrant can impact your photographs, what do you think? Is there a difference? Oh, yes, yeah, really, yeah, massive. Oh, I love this. Yeah, yeah, it's huge. Um, I think just the element of being relaxed, yeah, so much more relaxed. They know you. They've met with you. They know what's coming. But in terms of photos, the the emotion side, I think. They're so much more comfortable. Yeah, you can put so much more humor into it, you know, personal stories. And then obviously you can get the reactions of the couple, and if it includes any of the family or friends, you can get their reactions. Yeah, it's a little bit more interactive, yeah, like, rather than just the couple and everyone kind of looking at them, I think it's nice as well. You can tell more stories, so make it more personal, which means the couple have a little bit of a breather. Yes, they can just sit back and enjoy the ceremony rather than all the attention being on them. So again, you can get nice shots of them just glancing at each other and just kind of taking a few minutes. And sometimes they stand there and they whisper to each other a little bit. Yeah, you can get cute little moments there as well. So, but yeah, I definitely feel it's way more interactive. And yeah, the guests like getting some of their reactions. Otherwise, obviously, once the couple come in ceremony starts, you can get some beautiful reactions to everyone crying, yeah, cheering as they go out. But between that, there's not a lot, No, there's not a lot of react to No, there isn't. So unless, obviously the couple start crying, yeah, yeah. But yeah, laughter, for me, I just love laughter. Oh, it's lovely. And seeing that natural laughter, like you said in that moment, yeah. And I think as well for the couple, what I really love, exactly like you said, when they have that little moment together, is seeing so the couple, seeing their guests, enjoying the story. Yes, is so magic, isn't it? They can, like, laugh along with them, and it's always the bits that you expect when you write the script. You're like, oh, that's going to get a laugh. And you hear it on the day. And you know it does, because it's all the family and friends that know that couple so well, and they know that that's perfectly them, yeah? And I think, like you say, having the photographer being able to catch capture those moments is fantastic, yeah, it brings them into the ceremony. Rather than just releasing it. It makes it for everybody, definitely. Now, this is another question I've got for you then, because, like I say, I do for that love story part, I do like to put the couple together, one side or the other. I do also give them the opportunity, if they want to, to sit down that bit. What your thoughts on that? Yeah, I'm I think that's nice. Again, I think for couples that are particularly nervous, yeah, it gives them that chance just the attentions off them, yeah, they relax more. And the more relaxed the couple are, they that will reflect in their photos. Yeah, yeah. Like, my number one goal on weddings is always, The more relaxed you are, the more fun you have. Yeah, photos will reflect that, yeah. So for the ceremony in particular, nerves can run emotions can run really high, yeah. So I think by giving them just that they're not on show, then as well. Yeah, they're kind of sat down. They can have a moment the attention is off them. So, yeah, I think either work really well, yeah, so seated or standing, whatever, whatever suits that couple really. I mean, I do always give them the choice, and then finally say, but it's nice to hear it from a photographer's point of view. And then in terms of, I guess, those symbolic elements that we might add in, so things like a unity candle, where you're using a table, or perhaps a hand tying stuff like that. How do you think we like what things do we need to consider to get the best possible photos of those moments? I think just the communication that is going to happen, where it's going to happen, yeah, and what point of the ceremony is going to happen, so that again, we're in the right place at the right time, at the right angle to capture that? Yeah, absolutely. And I guess in terms of things like a candle, say, for example, you've got the couple and then a family member from each side, and it's at a table. Yeah, do you think it's best to have everyone all around one side, all facing the same way, so that you can then get in there and get those good photos? Yeah, I'd say, if there's space for them to come, like, behind the table, nice seeing everybody. So yeah, everybody else can see it as, yeah, of course, exactly. And then I'd crouch down on the floor, yeah, and kind of get that angle of the night. Yeah, amazing. So I guess really, what celebrants need to think is actually, what does it look like to the guests? Yeah, that's then how it's going to look to the photographer. And you can then get around and make sure. So make sure that when you're planning these things, practice them and work out how it's going to look to people that are watching, yeah, it is, I guess you is a bit of performance, yes, yeah, yeah. It is a show, yeah, respect, yeah. You need to work out where people are going to stand and how everyone's going to see it. Because, like I said, it is for everybody, yeah, yeah. And then my next thing I want to talk about is confetti. Oh, yes. So confetti, I always ask the question, are you having confetti? If so, when? Yeah. Now couples, some couples want to have it straight away. At the end of the ceremony, I tend to find there maybe more the couples who don't want as much attention and are perhaps a little bit shy, they say, Oh, we're just going to have it as we leave the ceremony. What are your thoughts on that versus a set up confetti shot afterwards, I feel from a photo op, it gives two photo opportunities, yeah? So I do quite like just walking down the aisle, yeah? And then the confetti, yes, that's my personal preference, yeah. But I think it's is down to the couple. And like you said, I think more shy couples have it down the aisle, yeah? Or couples that don't want guests, kind of not manhandled, but being shepherded. I guess they just want the same place, yeah? If they don't want, you know, the photographer, to go out and rearrange everyone, yeah, then down the aisle works a lot better. It's kind of, it's the natural process of the day. Yeah, it's already in that kind of line, yeah. And normally, I. Just ask guests on the end of the seats to kind of make the aisle a little bit longer. Yes? So that kind of moments done. But yeah, because I think that's the thing for me as a celebrant. I feel the same as you where I like it to be done separately, yeah? Because I just think at the end of the ceremony. So I tend to do the kiss first, yeah, have that as its own big moment. Then I'll do some closing words. Yeah. If they want a symbolic certificate, we'll do one. But if they don't, it's just those closing words where they're back in the center. I then get everyone to be upstanding, get the bouquet back, if there is one, then get everyone to make some noise for the newlyweds. And that's when they leave. You can't make noise. If you're throwing, you can't make noise. You can whoop and cheer a bit. There's no clapping. Yeah, it's, it's this mix. So hang on. No one's cheering, yeah. And then also, exactly like you say, if you've got aisles, and actually the rose, a lot of the people can't read, so you've got to so they get bunched up, then they have to move around, so you're kind of moving people anyway. Yeah, absolutely. And I did it on Saturday, and you know what? I've done it a couple of times before, where they've done it straight away, and the photographer has wanted to create that tunnel, which I understand, because it gets the best photos for the confetti, but it kind of felt like a bit of a delay at the end and a bit of a delay with the exit, whereas on Saturday, the way we did it, I'd instructed the two bridesmaids who were giving the confetti out to do that during my closing words so they could do more. Yeah, honestly, jobs like I normally there. So yeah, but I spoke to a photographer beforehand, and I was like, Look, they want to do the confetti at the end. I know for you a tunnel is going to be better. So how can we get the tunnel to feel the most natural as they leave? Because that's what the couple want, really. They're having confetti at the end. Yeah, that's why, yeah. So I was like, right, get the bridesmaids to start giving the confetti out discreetly while I'm doing the closing words, because, you know the closing words, people who aren't grabbing confetti can still listen, yeah. So that's what we did. Then by the time I invited everyone to be upstanding, they all had confetti. We then did have to take a little pause while everyone lined up, but it's okay. Gave the couple a moment or two to breathe. Then once everyone was lined I then did the announcement, and off they went. And worked well. So I think if they are going to do it, that's the best way to do it. But I do think the best advice is do it separately. Yeah? I just, I feel like the cheering announce them as newlyweds. Yeah, there's no cheering and music and it's no big moment, yeah, just throwing the confetti. You still get the music, but it's just like you say, it just doesn't have that same impact, does it? And it gives them two opportunities. Yeah, there you go. A lot of couples as well. They come down the aisle and then they go off and have just five minutes to themselves. Yeah, that time I'm normally getting ready, yeah, and then they're announced back out, you know? So it gives the couple just those few Yeah, otherwise they'll have those few moments. Everybody else will kind of leave and go outside, yeah? They just kind of come outside, yeah? And that's it. There's no big Yeah, sliding, yeah. Oh, hi guys, here I am. Can have a drink, yeah? Whereas with the confetti, it's like, well, yeah, it's really nice. And I think, exactly like you say, it tends to be those couples that perhaps want it to flow more, but I actually think it flows better, yeah, doing it separately, yeah? And that's something I've learned to advise a little bit more. I really try and keep everything as couples choice, but there's certain things I can't help it. I'm just like, do it this way, guys. Yeah, we do every weekend. Experience in what we're doing. You kind of get that confidence as time goes on, yeah? Well, I do kind of know what I'm doing, so please listen to me. Yeah, absolutely. So what would you say then, are any standout moments that you've had when working with celebrants? Are there anything that like sticks in your mind that you think, Oh, that was a celebrant ceremony, and I remember doing this, and it was beautiful. The shots, oh yes, yes. Talk to me about that brilliant. Yeah, they had, like a festival wedding at their house outside. And yeah, they they had shots mid ceremony, and then as they came down the aisle, we had smoke, smoke bomb things going off, and confetti, and love flags in the background. Yeah, and the shots, what were the photos like, of their faces, post shots, all right? I think I clearly it's a regular, yeah? You're expecting these, like, Oh yeah, yeah. No, they, I think they were used to shots. It was just them. Yeah, that's, that's the luxury of doing, you know, with the celebrant led wedding, is you can do you? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the main thing, really, that's what we're seeing. So much more of people are realizing their choices, whether it be with venue, like you say they want to have a wedding more at home or in a, you know, a setting that's significant to them, whether it be the content of the ceremony, they're working with the celebrant to make it relevant. I think actually, people are just really putting their personality on wedding days now, aren't they? Yes, it's really special to see. After going around the drinks reception, after I can always hear people saying about the ceremony, yeah, if it's celebrant, you know, or you know, oh, that was amazing. What's so different? I love this bit. I love that bit. Yeah. Unfortunately, with registrars, it's just not the same. There's not much talk after the ceremony. Out the ceremony. Yeah, it's almost just that all the formalities have done, yeah, let's now we can cover drinks, yeah, yeah. Whereas Yeah, it's, I think celebrants are the way forward. I think it's going, I think it's, yeah. I think it's going to take off soon. So lovely to hear you say. That, like, I say I haven't paid you to say that. You just come on as a guest to say that. But no, it's so true. And I think really it is just about that flexibility and Yeah, and just really putting their stamp on it. Because I think couples spend so much time thinking about, how is this day going to reflect them in the favors, in the table plan, yeah, the flowers, yeah. You know all those other little moment. Let's name our table after where we've been on holiday. And yeah, but the ceremony doesn't have substance to it, yeah. So actually, having that, like you say, it kind of sets that vibe in the beginning. Would you say? Then, what's your number one, like, best thing about working with celebrants, and what's something that you think we need to work on a little bit? I think the best thing is the reactions you get, yeah, like that. Just for me, that's what I'm all about. Yeah, those reactions, like speeches, are always my favorite part. I love speeches, yeah? And it's where you learn so much. I learned so much more about a couple, but you get more of that in the ceremony. Yeah? So I definitely feel that's, that's the bit I love, the reactions. And then what about something that you think we could do better, or something that you've worked with celebrants on, and you're like, Okay, you know, not everyone does this, or we can work on this. Is there anything that stands out? Not massively. No. Okay, that's good. I am. I'm Team celebrant. Like, okay, Jodie, we'll get you back. You're a good ambassador. So finally, then, I guess let's wrap up today with the question that I always ask all of my guests, what's your one piece of advice to anyone that's listening to this and they're thinking, yeah, do you know what? I think being a celebrance, a career for me? Do it. Yeah? Just do it. Yeah. Why not? Life's too short. Yeah. You know, if you're not in a job, you're not happy about and you're not sure, just, yeah, just go for it. Like listen to your first episode and you said how you were doing alongside your radio. Yeah, job start with it. I feel like it's something that you could do to start with, yeah, get your confidence up, kind of see if it's definitely for you. Yeah. I think if you love being around people, yeah, and chatting and have that confidence to stand up in front of people, then yeah, why not? Yeah, amazing. Well, brilliant words for me there Jody, and thank you so much for coming on and fingers crossed. It's manifest we get to do very lovely. Thank you. You.