Latest / The Internal Move Podcast with Fexingo: Lateral Roles, Internal Transfers, and Staying at Your Company / How to Map Your Internal Career Without a Job Ladder
Transcript
- Lucas: There's this idea that still haunts corporate career discussions — the career ladder. You climb rungs, each one higher than the last, and if you're not moving up, you feel like you're failing. But for a lot of people working inside companies today, especially in tech and fast-growing firms, the ladder either doesn't exist or it's been pulled out from under them. Luna: Yeah, I think a lot of companies flattened their hierarchies in the last five years. So the rungs just aren't there the way they used to be. Lucas: Exactly. And that leaves people in a weird position. You know you want to grow, you know you want to stay at your company — but if there's no published org chart showing you what's next, how do you even figure out what's possible? Luna: So you're saying you have to build your own map. Lucas: That's exactly what this episode is about. Creating your own internal career map when the company won't give you one. And I want to ground this in a specific case because I think it makes the whole idea click. Luna: Let's hear it. Lucas: A marketing manager at a mid-size SaaS company — let's call her Priya. She'd been in the role for about three years, and she was good at it. But she wanted to move into product management. Her company didn't have a formal internal mobility program. No job rotation, no posted lateral openings. Luna: Typical. And product management is a tough transition — it's not like one department over. Lucas: Right. So instead of waiting for a job listing, she mapped what I'd call skill adjacencies. She listed everything she did in marketing — customer interviews, A/B testing, campaign analysis, cross-functional stakeholder management — and then she looked at what product managers at her company actually did. And there was significant overlap. Luna: So the idea is you don't just look at the job title. You look at the actual work. Lucas: Exactly. She identified three specific overlaps: user research, data-driven decision-making, and running experiments. Then she documented those as her core transferable skills. She didn't wait for a formal opening. She started having conversations with the product team leads, framed around those overlaps. Luna: And what happened? Did she get the move? Lucas: She did. It took about six months of informal projects — she volunteered to help with user testing for a new feature, she sat in on product sprint retrospectives — and eventually the product VP created a new associate product manager role that was essentially designed around her background. Luna: That's a great story. But it also highlights something important — the company had to be willing to be flexible. Not every company is. Lucas: True. And that's where the data gets interesting. LinkedIn published some internal mobility research in late 2025 that found employees who change roles internally are 41 percent more likely to stay at the company for three years or more. That's a huge retention lever. So companies that don't facilitate this are actually costing themselves talent. Luna: Forty-one percent — that's a big number. And it makes sense. If I invest in learning a new area inside the same company, I'm more embedded, more networked. It'd take a lot to pull me away. Lucas: Right. And that's the argument you can make to your manager or to HR. You're not just asking for a new role — you're offering a retention solution. But the hard part is the individual has to start the mapping process themselves, because most companies won't do it for you. Luna: So walk me through the practical steps. If I'm sitting in a role right now and I want to map a move, where do I start? Lucas: First, inventory your actual tasks — not your job description. What do you spend your week doing? Write down every type of work. Then, for each task, ask yourself: if I wanted to do this in a different context — say, in another department — what would that look like? That's the beginning of a skill adjacency map. Luna: And then you look at roles you're interested in and compare? Lucas: Yes. And I'd encourage people to look at roles in adjacent departments, not just the one directly above. The typical move is 'I'm a senior analyst, I want to be a manager.' But the lattice model says you might also move sideways into a different function that values analytical skills — like a strategy role, or a product analytics role. That's actually more common than vertical promotions at a lot of companies now. Luna: I've seen that too. Especially in companies that have flattened structures — the only way to grow is to add breadth, not just depth. Lucas: Exactly. And there's a really useful framework I've seen called the 'career lattice' versus the 'career ladder.' The ladder is linear. The lattice is a grid where you can move up, sideways, even diagonal. And research from the Harvard Business Review suggests lattice moves lead to higher long-term compensation growth than staying on a single vertical track, because you build cross-functional fluency. Luna: Yeah, that makes sense. A product manager who also understands sales and finance is worth more than one who's only done product. Lucas: Right. So the map you're building isn't just about the next role. It's about building a portfolio of experiences that compound over time. And the beauty is you can start that process inside your current company without quitting. Luna: Let's talk about the blockers, though. Because I've talked to people who say 'I tried to make a lateral move and my manager blocked it.' Lucas: That's a real obstacle. And it's one of the most common reasons internal mobility fails. The manager doesn't want to lose a good performer. But there are ways to navigate that. One approach is to frame it as a long-term development conversation, not a 'I'm leaving' conversation. You say 'I want to build skills that will make me more valuable to the company in the long run, and I'd like your support in exploring a project in another department.' Luna: So you're not asking for permission to leave — you're asking for help to grow. That's a different conversation. Lucas: Exactly. And if the manager still resists, there's a data point you can bring up. That LinkedIn study I mentioned — it also found that companies with strong internal mobility retain employees 5.4 years on average, versus 2.9 years for companies without it. So if your manager cares about retention, this is actually good for them too. You're more likely to stay at the company longer if you make a lateral move. Luna: That's a strong argument. But it still requires a manager who's willing to think beyond their own team's short-term needs. Lucas: It does. And that's not always the case. So another tactic is to build visibility outside your team before you even start the conversation. Say yes to cross-functional projects. Volunteer for committees. Attend town halls and ask good questions. The more people know who you are and what you can do, the more likely someone in another department will advocate for you when a role opens up. Luna: So it's a kind of internal networking. Not networking for a job, but networking for awareness. Lucas: Exactly. And that's actually the second step in the mapping process. After you've identified your skill adjacencies, you identify the people who work in the areas you're interested in, and you have informational conversations. Not 'hire me' conversations — 'I'm curious about what you do' conversations. Luna: I think a lot of people skip that step because it feels awkward. But it's probably the most important one. Lucas: It is. And it's the one that gives you the real intelligence about whether a move is even viable. You might discover that the role you thought you wanted actually involves a lot of tasks you hate. Better to find that out over coffee than after you've transferred. Luna: Yeah, and that saves everyone a lot of pain. I've seen people take lateral moves that seemed great on paper and then realize they're miserable because the culture of the new team is completely different. Lucas: Right. So the map isn't just about skills — it's also about culture, team dynamics, and manager style. And the only way to learn those is through conversations. Luna: This is really practical. Let me ask about timing — when is the right moment to start this mapping process? Before you're unhappy? Because a lot of people only think about it when they're already frustrated. Lucas: Ideally, you start mapping before you need to. The best time is when you're still performing well and you have emotional bandwidth. If you wait until you're burnt out or actively disengaged, you're more likely to make a bad decision, or just leave the company altogether. So I'd say — every six months, do a personal skill inventory. Update your adjacency map. Have one informational conversation with someone in a different department. It's low effort and it keeps your options open. Luna: I like that as a habit. Six-month checkups for your career, just like a health checkup. Lucas: Exactly. And the people who do that consistently are the ones who don't feel stuck. They always have a sense of what's possible, even if they don't move. That alone reduces the urge to quit. Luna: Speaking of reducing the urge to quit — I want to mention something. If today's episode was useful to you and you want to keep it ad-free, buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo helps. That's literally what funds these conversations. Lucas: Yeah, we don't run ads — that's a deliberate choice. If you want to support that, buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo is the place. And it genuinely makes a difference. Luna: Alright, back to mapping. So you've done your inventory, you've had some conversations. What's the next concrete step? Lucas: Next, you create a proposal. Not a formal document necessarily, but a one-page summary of what you've learned and what you're proposing as a possible move. You share it with your manager and with the person in the target department. It includes: the skills you bring, the gap you'd need to fill, and a suggested timeline — maybe a three-month transition period where you try a project before fully committing. Luna: That's smart because it lowers the risk for everyone. It's a trial, not a permanent decision. Lucas: Exactly. And companies that have formal internal mobility programs often call this a 'secondment' or 'stretch assignment.' But if your company doesn't have that, you can just propose it informally. The worst they can say is no — and if they do, you've at least started the conversation and planted a seed. Luna: And if they say no repeatedly? What then? Lucas: Then you have a signal. If the company isn't willing to support your growth at all, even with a low-risk trial, that's information. And it might be time to update your external resume. But the key is you've done the work internally first. You gave the company a chance to keep you. And you leave with a clear conscience and a better sense of what you want. Luna: That's a good note to end on. It's about giving your current employer the first option on your future. Lucas: Exactly. Because most people leave without ever having that conversation. And a lot of those departures are preventable. Internal mobility isn't just good for employees — it's good for companies. But it starts with the individual taking the initiative to map their own path. Luna: And that's what we hope you take away from this episode. Build your lattice, not just your ladder. Thanks for listening. Lucas: We'll be back with another episode soon. Until then, keep moving.