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What happens to your trust when you get divorced? · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
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  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
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  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
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  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Tod Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
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  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
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  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
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  Speaker 3: How are you today? I am never better in you.
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  Speaker 2: I'm great? Thank you. What do you have for us
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  Speaker 2: this week?
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  Speaker 3: A couple of things. I've got a Connecticut Appellate Court
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  Speaker 3: case dealing with breach of fiduciary duty and divorce. Interesting
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  Speaker 3: to see how these two go together. Obviously there's a
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  Speaker 3: trust involved life insurance and then a divorce. Yeah, you
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  Speaker 3: can see how that might play out, but at least
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  Speaker 3: there's a trust. Next, I head over to Pennsylvania. I
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  Speaker 3: got a Supreme Court case, and you're going to find
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  Speaker 3: out just how tough it is to destroy a joint
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  Speaker 3: tendency with the right of survivorship. Of course, it goes
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  Speaker 3: all downhill after the mother gives half the property to
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  Speaker 3: a son. I don't think we need to say anything else,
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  Speaker 3: but we always say don't give away your stuff, especially
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  Speaker 3: real estate. And you're going to say why, Yeah, nothing
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  Speaker 3: good comes from that. You're going to see why in
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  Speaker 3: a moment that said. Folks, when you're doing a state planning,
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  Speaker 3: it does have real estate in it, it does have
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  Speaker 3: money in it. But in this case, I want you
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  Speaker 3: to focus on IRA benefits, which is what the new
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  Speaker 3: guide is about. If you have a life insurance policy
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  Speaker 3: and or an IRA, this guide is really an important
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  Speaker 3: part of your estate and couple that with the fact
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  Speaker 3: that you might want to do nursing home planning at
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  Speaker 3: the same time. This guide will teach you how to
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  Speaker 3: name your estate the beneficiary of an IRA and life
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  Speaker 3: insurance to get better estate tax savings and nursing home
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  Speaker 3: protection savings. Yes, I said nursing home protection savings on
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  Speaker 3: an IRA, which is not easy to do, all while
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  Speaker 3: not causing any adverse income tax consequences. But it's all
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  Speaker 3: done coupled with a testamentary trust which is also explained here,
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  Speaker 3: coupled with that in your will. Call and get the
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  Speaker 3: guide Naming your estate an IRA beneficiary eight six six
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  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
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  Speaker 3: Show dot com again eight six six eight four eight
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  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
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  Speaker 3: Lots of stuff in this guide, folks. Okay, head over
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  Speaker 3: to connetiy. Let's take a look at this appellate court case.
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  Speaker 3: So we have Ahmed and he has a revocable trust.
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  Speaker 3: They do it and this is done in April of
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  Speaker 3: twenty seventeen. Then his wife Lisa was the primary beneficiary
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  Speaker 3: and six kids were the contingent beneficiaries. Well, the trust
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  Speaker 3: owned a two million dollar life insurance policy. And by
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  Speaker 3: the way, this I believe was a first marriage to
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  Speaker 3: begin with, and they had a two million dollar life
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  Speaker 3: insurance policy which was apparently owned by which is important
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  Speaker 3: distinction versus just being named the beneficiary of it was
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  Speaker 3: owned by the revocable trust. I can only assume the
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  Speaker 3: beneficiary was also the revocable trust. Well, Ahmed managed to
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  Speaker 3: pay the premiums until twenty twelve, when he and Lisa
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  Speaker 3: got divorced. Makes sense. Lisa then paid the premiums from
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  Speaker 3: twenty thirteen to twenty eighteen to keep the policy alive
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  Speaker 3: for the kids. Lisa treated those payments as a loan
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  Speaker 3: to the trust. Now you have to pause there for
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  Speaker 3: a minute, because if they got divorced, I'm wondering, why
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  Speaker 3: the heck is Lisa still on his trustee of this trust?
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  Speaker 1: Right?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, that's just a red flag in my head
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  Speaker 3: right now. But we'll get we'll come back to that.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe they were friendly, but that just thinks you got
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  Speaker 2: to be able to have a conversation.
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  Speaker 3: I'm just mind blown still right there. So that's like
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  Speaker 3: a hard stop for me, all right. Nevertheless, that's the
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  Speaker 3: facts that we're dealing with. Lisa then is told tells
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  Speaker 3: the insurance company in twenty eighteen, Apparently she's tired of paying,
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  Speaker 3: so in twenty eighteen she tells the life insurance policy
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  Speaker 3: company to terminate the policy and transfer the cash surrender
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  Speaker 3: value to the trust bank account. Well, I apparently on
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  Speaker 3: that is still alive, and so are the kids. In fact,
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  Speaker 3: the money went to her personal bank account and then
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  Speaker 3: to her personal brokerage account. Well, that wasn't good. Lisa
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  Speaker 3: never tells Ahmed or the kids that she terminated the policy.
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  Speaker 3: This isn't looking good for Lisa. No Ahmed's attorney, however,
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  Speaker 3: finds out about it and tells Lisa of her bad conduct.
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  Speaker 3: And so Lisa then returns one hundred and eighty thousand
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  Speaker 3: dollars to the trust bank account. Kids don't care. They sue.
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  Speaker 3: They see her for breach of fiduciary duty as she
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  Speaker 3: took the money personally makes sense. Lisa said, oh no, no, no,
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  Speaker 3: she was acting under the authority of the trust. Plus
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  Speaker 3: the payments were alone by her to the trust. Trial
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  Speaker 3: court said no, Lisa, you breached her forduce share duty right.
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  Speaker 3: Well she didn't agree, so she got caught. Yeah, so
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  Speaker 3: she appealed and she says, oh no, no, no, no,
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  Speaker 3: there was no harm done to the trust. So it's okay.
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  Speaker 2: What about the two million bucks?
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  Speaker 3: Oh, she put it back, so there was no harm done.
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  Speaker 3: The court affirms the lower court decision, stating that, no,
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  Speaker 3: you took the money for your own personal account and
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  Speaker 3: to the detriment of the kids, and you did so
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  Speaker 3: wilfully without telling them or getting their consent or anything.
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  Speaker 3: So I'm pretty sure you breach your for your sheary
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  Speaker 3: duty and you lose. Yep, which is clear. She did
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  Speaker 3: more than that.
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  Speaker 2: She stole the money.
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  Speaker 3: She was divorced, she stole the money, and she put
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  Speaker 3: it back. She's in jail, so as she put it back. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: So apparently it's not only because she got caught. I
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  Speaker 3: totally agree with this case decision. Yes, but that's not
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  Speaker 3: what we're learning from this. No, it's not what we're
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  Speaker 3: learning from this, folks, is when you get divorced, update
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  Speaker 3: your document. Why was the ex wife left on as
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  Speaker 3: trustee of the trust? Number one? Number two? You need
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  Speaker 3: to revise your entire estate plan after you're divorced. Right,
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  Speaker 3: in fact, you know the trust it was it was
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  Speaker 3: a married couple trust, and so when you get divorced,
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  Speaker 3: you really need to do a whole new trust. As
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  Speaker 3: a single person. You need to remove you know, all
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  Speaker 3: references to a spouse, please update your health care proxy,
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  Speaker 3: power of attorney, living will hipA right. Remember those primary
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  Speaker 3: fiduciaries on those documents were likely you're now ex wife,
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  Speaker 3: so you would want to update all of those things.
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  Speaker 3: Never mind, get a new trust for a single person,
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  Speaker 3: and you want to make sure that that you change
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  Speaker 3: the beneficiaries on things like four oh one k's iras,
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  Speaker 3: life insurance policies. Things you don't think about all of
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  Speaker 3: the things accounts.
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  Speaker 2: You know you need employ your life insurance plans that.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and here you know it's okay, I guess that
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  Speaker 3: the policy was owned by the trust, but you know,
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  Speaker 3: get rid of this trust. Wife is trustee, ex wife
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  Speaker 3: is trustee. Now if if in fact you're concerned about
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  Speaker 3: this at all, with the person being with the trust
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  Speaker 3: being the owner of your life insurance, just make the
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  Speaker 3: trustee the beneficiary of your life insurance policy and not
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  Speaker 3: the owner.
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  Speaker 2: Then they don't have control over anything, right.
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  Speaker 3: Right, So, as as long as it's a revocable trust
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  Speaker 3: and the money gets there when you die, it avoids probate,
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  Speaker 3: it's going to be sheltered first aid taxes, it's going
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  Speaker 3: to go to the family the way you want it. Again,
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  Speaker 3: with a revocable trust, that's okay, just name the beneficiary
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  Speaker 3: because if the beneficiary was the only that means the
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  Speaker 3: owner still would have been a meed. If the owner
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  Speaker 3: was a med and the beneficiary was the trust, the
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  Speaker 3: trustee would have had no ability to terminate the policy.
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  Speaker 3: Only the owner can do that. MM see. So very
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  Speaker 3: important do you understand these things when you're doing this folks. Now,
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  Speaker 3: remember if you have an irrevocable life insurance trust because
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  Speaker 3: you want to get the policy out of your estate
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  Speaker 3: because it's causing a taxable problem, well then yeah, you
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  Speaker 3: wouldn't be using this revocable trust arrangement at all. And
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  Speaker 3: if you want the policy to be out of the estate,
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  Speaker 3: then it needs to be an irrevocable life insurance trust.
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  Speaker 3: And then it is important that you change both the
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  Speaker 3: owner and the beneficiary to be the trust. So I
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  Speaker 3: just don't want to confuse my saying what to do
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  Speaker 3: with a revocable trust situation with an irrevocable life insurance trust,
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  Speaker 3: because once it's in there, it's now not only income
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  Speaker 3: tax free, but it's estate tax free because it's now
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  Speaker 3: not owned by your estate. So very important to make
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  Speaker 3: that distinction and Most importantly, folks, just when you get
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  Speaker 3: a divorce. The lesson here is please go update your
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  Speaker 3: estate plan. Every ap aspect of your estate plan needs
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  Speaker 3: to be changed and then Ahmed, you wouldn't be in
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  Speaker 3: this situation, nor would any of you so do that. Meanwhile,
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: this is again just one part of an estate plan.
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  Speaker 2: Where are we headed now, Todd?
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  Speaker 3: So we're going to go to Pennsylvania Supreme Court. It's
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: like Super Bowl. Yeah. So you think you have a
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  Speaker 3: joint tendancy with right of survivorship and you think you
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  Speaker 3: broke it? Maybe not. What does all this mean? Ruth M?
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  Speaker 3: Important because she's got a daughter, will find Ruth. A later,
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  Speaker 3: Ruth M conveyed her property to herself and her son Lou,
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  Speaker 3: as joint tenants with the right of survivorship. Hard stop.
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  Speaker 3: Nothing good can come from that now, having gave away
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: half her house exactly. So, having said that, let's continue
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: on to see if the hard stop was a good call.
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  Speaker 3: So later on the relationship with the Sun deteriorated. Shocker.
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  Speaker 3: By twenty twenty, Ruth sued to petition to partition the property. Okay,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: what does that mean. It means that you've got to
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: force the sale of the property and either Lou buys
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: out Mom or they sell it on the open market
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: or Mom buys out Lou yep. Ruth simultaneously prepared a
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  Speaker 3: deed conveying her interest back to herself as a tenant
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: in common with Lou. Remember it was joint tenancy with
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: the right of survivorship, so she conveyed back her half
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: to herself as tenants in common with Lou. Well, can
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: you do that? I may stay tuned. Yeah, So May
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty Ruth dies. Apparently the petition to partition never
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: happened or never got resolved. May twenty twenty, Ruth dies.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Lou argues that the deed that Ruth prepared did not
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: change the tendency relationship because the deed was just back
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: to herself and not to a third party. Ruth A,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: the daughter, argues, no, it did change the tenancy. So
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: they go to court. The trial court said, now the
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: deed did not change the joint tenancy because it did
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: not change the four unities of possession. Now what the
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: heck are those? What is that? The unities of possession are?
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: I mean the unities of title are possession, interest, time,
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: and title. Arguably, here Ruth still owned it, possessed it
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: had never lost it from a time standpoint and owned
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: the title, so it remained unchanged. So she really did
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: not change. Yeah, she didn't do anything. That's what the
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: trial court says.
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  Speaker 2: I would think that he would have had to sign
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: something too, we didn't do that in a vacuum.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Well, no, he didn't have to sign something. You can
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: break it. She just did it, not the right way,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: the appellate court. So she appeals. The appellate court says,
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: now we're going to affirm the lower court stating that
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: it can be done, but you need to do it
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: in a way that destroys the four unities of typle
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: and that didn't happen here. So she appeals to Supreme
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Court and the Supreme Court of Arms. Transferring property back
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: to yourself just doesn't change title. So you are stuck.
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  Speaker 2: So she could have transferred her half to Ruth a
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: but she probably learned a lesson having already transferred half
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: of it.
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  Speaker 3: But Ruth died already, so we're.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: I mean before when she did the tenants in commons.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so, but she transferred to lou so she wanted
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: to undo what she did. So at the end of
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: the day, Ruth m you lose and it looks like
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: lou is going to get the entire property right, because
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: if you die with joint property, the property goes to
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: the surviving joint owner. Outside of probate, NonStop to not pass, go,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: do not collect two hundred dollars.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Don't give your stuff away people.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: So that's that's the result here. But I think we
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: have a lot to learn about giving stuff away. And
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: I can tell you there's one item that you really
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: can't give away. It's called your IRA. So you're stuck
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: with that thing, and let's do a state planning right
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: with something like that. Not only iras, but life insurance.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: Those are two very important items in your estate plan
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: that are not always so easy to deal with. So
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: this guide will help you understand how to do it.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: If you're interested in protecting assets from the nursing home
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: and reducing a state taxes and not having any adverse
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: income taxes, this guide is for you learn how to
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: name your estate the IRA beneficiary of your estate, and
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: it will help you understand how to protect an IRA
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: from the nursing home and life insurance and not cause
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: any adverse tax problems. Lots to learn about, though, lots
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: of rules to follow with iras, get the Guide eight
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine to nine
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight six six
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Show dot com.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Let's earn some lessons, shall we?
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: So?
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: What do we do?
• 19:03
  Speaker 6: What not to do?
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: How about we don't give away our property? We always
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: say it, Susan, you said it. Nothing good comes from
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: giving away your property, your home or I don't care
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: any real estate. First, what happens like here? Once you
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: give away even half of your property or all of
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: your property and retain a life estate interest, you have
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: lost control over the asset that was proven here, proved
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: out right.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Even by throwing someone's name on it, you don't have
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: full control.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: You've lost control. You cannot get it back, as we
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: found out here if you wanted it, and you cannot
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: sell it if you want it without getting that kid.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: In this case, Lou, permission and cooperation.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: No thanks, I'm not asking my kids permission to do anything. No.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Let's say you get permission, then you've got tax problems. Right.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Even if you got the permission and you sell the property,
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: one half of the money would go to the child.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: In this case, Lou, or whoever you gave it to,
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: who would likely have to pay higher income taxes on
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: the gain because unless they've lived there for two of
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: the last five years, they're not going to get a
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: capital gains exclusion.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: So even if they're willing to give the money back
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: to you, they get to pay the irs first out
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: of that money.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: You jumped ahead already, Susan, one step ahead of me.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: I was just saying that they got to pay taxes.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: But you're absolutely right. After they pay the taxes, mom
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: only got half the money.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: If Mom only got half the money and wanted to
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: buy another house, I think we have a problem because
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: the kid Lou in this case, has an early inheritance
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: of half the money and now asking your kids, hopefully
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: you know, wait, please.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Can I have my money back from my house I sold?
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: No, thanks, you know. But to your point, Susan, what
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: if they say yes, now they're giving you back thirty
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: percent less. Yeah, because they had to pay capital gains tax.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: That might not have happened if Mom could sell the
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: property herself and take advantage of either a two hundred
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: and fifty thousand dollars capital gains exclusion if she was
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: single or five hundred thousand if she was married. Wow. Right,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: things that you just don't think about, that the control,
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: the taxes, everything that's.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Got divorced through this whole thing. Now half your house
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: is part of their marital asset.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: That's right, Ruth M. You've got yourself in a pickle,
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: so you don't want that. Now, let's focus a little
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: bit on tenants in common versus joint tenancy. So tenants
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: in common why she was trying to transfer it back
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: even though she was petitioning to partition, was she was
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: going to say, at least I want to be able
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: to leave my half to someone other than this deadbeat kid, right,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: and so for nothing else, I'm not going to wait around.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to put my half back and make
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: it tenants in common. Because if you die with tenancies
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: in common, then the property goes to your side of
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: the family, to whoever you direct it to. It doesn't
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: go to the surviving joint owner, whereas if it's joint
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: like here, it's automatically going to go to the surviving
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: joint owner, and so lou gets it all. So that's
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: why it was so important for her to change it
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: to tenants in common. Could she have done it? She
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: clearly did it wrong. You were asking about you know,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: how how do you do that right?
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: And could she? Yeah, she could have trusts. Come to mind, right,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: I don't want to necessarily give it to some other kid.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: I don't want to give it to another you know, I.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Want to because you learn your lesson the first time.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: I want to protect it. So she could have simply said,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: let me set up my own estate plan, let me
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: take the house, transfer my half to a trust. The
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: moment you transfer your half to a trust, you break
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: the joint ownership. And because you cannot have a joint
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: tendency with an entity, Okay. Interesting, So now it would
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: be a tenant in common interest between the newly created
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: trust by Ruth to direct where her half goes got
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: and Lou, and I don't need Lou's signature.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: To do that.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Get some legal advice, so.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Folks, there's always so much you can do. Just get
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: some planning advice. Learn what to do with your with
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: your estate in this case, get the guide and learn
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: how to deal with your IRA and your life insurance
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: as part of your overall estate plan. Eight six six
• 23:36
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• 23:39
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd will
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: be answering your listener questions when we return to the
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: legal exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Every dollar you've saved in retirement accounts and life insurance
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  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are
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  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange and it's time for
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Ask Todd, the segment where Todd will answer your questions
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: about anything and everything that's included in the estate planning process.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Once again, here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. We have a few questions from listeners
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: for you. First question comes from Mara on Cape Cod
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: and Mara writes, my husband recently went on hospice. Years ago,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: we created two airyvocable trusts with you. Is there anything
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: that we should be doing now to prepare for his passing?
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: What do I need to do after he passes?
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah? So I guess our first mistake was that they
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: prepared the to trust with me.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: No, No, just kidding years ago.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: So no, I mean, I think the good news is that,
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: you know, just take a look, you know, if there
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: is any good news in this case, and take a look,
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: and just make sure that a lot of your you know,
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: see what's owned where and how so check the boxes,
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: see what's owned in the trust already, and those are
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: now going to avoid probate. Those assets are going to
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: be protected from the nursing home yea, and are going
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: to move forward providing a bloodline plan for the family. Okay, Now,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: check assets that are not in the trust, because.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: They don't move everything into the trust when they create those.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: It's exactly right, Susan. So assets that are not in
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: the trust, just make sure that they are you know,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: put together as joint ownership between the healthy spouse and
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: the six spouse.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: So that there's nothing left in their name. The six
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: buses name.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: Nothing left in the six spouses name alone individually, yes, so,
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: or if there is, make sure there's a beneficiary on it.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: So like an IRA likely isn't going to be in
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: anyone else's name except the individuals. Yeah, so in this case,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: the individual needs to you know, you just got to
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: make sure that that beneficiary is on there so that
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: it avoids probate. If it avoids probate, you're fine. And
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: now the only other thing you might do is again
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: depending on the illness, is it something that they have
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: that's like cancer or well he's on.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Hospice, So hospice typically is six months or lefts left
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: to live.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: So you could have like cancer, but you know, be competent,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: Oh sure, And so if you're competent, there might be
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: time to set up a testamentary trust to take care
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: of an IRA. Because what this new rules we're dealing with,
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: which is in the guide today, you might be able
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: to have time to do a new will built into
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: it with a testamentary trust and name his IRA the
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: estate if he's over seventy three yep, because then it
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: will flow through there and be immediately protected from not
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: only a state taxes but nursing home in case Mara
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: gets sick in the future. Yep, that's helpful if they
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: have kids, so that could be it's a sizeable IRA. Yeah,
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: we did this for a couple of our clients.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: We did.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: We have a mutual client. He was in the process
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: of dying and he had an IRA that was well
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: over a million dollars, and you did this testimony trust
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: pretty close to end of life and it went through
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: and it went off like a hitch and now over
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: a million dollars is protected. He always had the larger IRA, Yeah,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: protected from the nursing home for her and for.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: The kids more or less. Right, Remember it's still available.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: Make sure you make sure we make it clear folks
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: that that surviving spouse is still allowed to use that money,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: that IRA money, just like they could if it went
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: directly to them. But it's protected in case, let's say
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: the healthy spouse gets sick and dies or not dies,
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: gets sick and goes to a nursing home. You know,
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: six months later, Well that's a million dollars. It's off
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: the Medicaid table. So those are kind of the things
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: I would think about, just to get your ducks in
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: a row and make sure you can completely avoid probate.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: Probably not a lot of other things to do at
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: this point.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Just make sure there's nothing that's going to probate.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and just make sure things are funded the way
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: you want beneficiaries, things like that. But more importantly, folks,
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: that does bring us. It was an actual great question
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: because it led it right into the guide, which is
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: exactly what this guide does. We were talking about how
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: to name the estate the beneficiary and make the trust
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: the testamentary trust, which is a which is a trust
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: built into your will. So you have to redo your
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: will when you're naming the estate the beneficiary of your
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: IRA or your life insurance. Same thing. Name the estate
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: the beneficiary, and then you can shelter it from future
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: estate taxes and immediately protect it from the nursing home.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: But don't just do it.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Don't just do it and update your documents.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: You have to get that updated document. You have to
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: do a new will. Folks, call get the guide. Learn
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: about testamentary trusts and iras and life insurance eight six
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine to nine or
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight six six eight
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: dot com and download it there.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Sonia in Boilston, mass and
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Sonia writes, my husband and I have a revocable trust
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: that we created with you, excuse me, that we created
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: this year. This is not one of your clients. We
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: transferred our home and we moved our investments into the trust.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: But I'm unsure what to do with a life insurance.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: It is a paid up two million dollar whole life
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: insurance policy on my husband. Should I be the beneficiary
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: or should our trust be? If we name the trust,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: will I have access to those funds when he passes
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: or do they need to stay in the trust?
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah? So this is this is exactly what we talked
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: about a minute ago with the last example and with
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: the guide. Right, life insurance is a complicated asset like
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: an IRA is. So in this case, you would say,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: look at the value of the overall estate, which is
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: really going to guide our decision.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Right, Boylston, they probably have a home. Yeah that this
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: two million dollar whole life policy.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, they've got to be probably pushing north of
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: four million. I would think two millions just a life
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: insurance policy, right between a home and another million? Right then,
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: and other assets stuff. Yeah, So I mean I'm guessing
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: that they're probably well north of four million. And the
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: reason that's important is that deals with your state tax
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: liability in the state here in mass anyway, Yep, federally.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: If we're talking just north to four five six million,
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: I ain't gonna matter, right, that's a whole nother ballgame.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: But if you wanted to avoid paying taxes in Mass
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: and it justifies the expense, remember it always has to
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: justify the expense, you can say to you, to your
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: go to your life insurance agent and say, make the
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: owner and the beneficiary an irrevocable life insurance trust. Never
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: mind the trust that they did, right, they created what
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: are revocable, probably a joint revocable trust. So never mind
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: the revocable trust. Right now, remember, could you could you
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: name the beneficiary of your life insurance the revocable trust? Yes,
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: in the meantime, maybe yes, you certainly could. If you
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: hadn't done anything else, you certainly would want to do that.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: I don't think you need to change the owner on
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: a life insurance policy to be the revocable trust. That
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: you don't only gain anything from that. And in fact,
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: earlier in the program, we showed how that could actually
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: cause a problem. So I would say, make the designated
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: beneficiary of the life insurance policy the revocable trust if
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: you're not concerned about the estate tax liability. The difference
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: here is that when you name the revocable trust the
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: beneficiary of the life insurance policy, yes, it avoids probate,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: but it also causes the two million dollars to be
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: included in the estate for a state tax calculation purposes.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: So maybe I don't want it a state taxable. So
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: let's say this two million dollar policy puts me at
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: the five million dollar level. Now I am a million over.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: It's making your estate taxable, right.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: I'm probably creating one hundred thousand dollars liability. We don't
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: enjoy that, right, and so I probably don't don't want that.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: So if we don't want that, and again for larger estates,
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: absolutely this is the way to go. So here, if
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: you decide, yeah, you know, I'd rather not have that
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: taxable in my estate, then you need to change the
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: owner and the beneficiary a little different than what I
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: just said. What they're revocable. The owner and the beneficiary
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: needs to become the irrevocable life insurance trust and if
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: it's a first to die policy, it goes into a
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: first to die islet. If it's a second to die policy,
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: it needs to go into a second to die islet.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: They're drafted just a little differently, but once they're in there,
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: it's now estate and income tax free. I enjoy it,
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: so you might want to do that. Folks, call and
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: get the guide. Learn how to treat iras and life
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: insurance as part of your estate most efficiently and protect
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: it six eight four eight five six nine to nine
• 37:03
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• 37:06
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: back with more after this quick break on the Legal
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Every dollar you've saved in retirement accounts and life insurance
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: tells a story, a story of hard work, smart choices,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: and the future you envision for your family. One way
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: to help that story end well is to make a
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: beneficiary choice that does more. This month's free guide from
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan IRA and Life Insurance, Planning, Estate tax
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Strategies and Nursing Home Protection explains how naming your estate
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: is the beneficiary of your IRA or life insurance can
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: add a layer of tax efficiency in nursing home protection
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: while still allowing your spouse access when it matters. It's
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: about keeping more of what you've built working for your
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: loved ones now and in the years to come. Get
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: your free copy today by calling eight six six eight
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  Speaker 1: four eight five six nine nine. That's eight six six
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: eight four eight five six nine nine, or you can
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: request it online from our website Legal exchange show dot com.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Ormstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 38:38
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  Speaker 6: eight hundred three nine three four zero zero one. We're
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  Speaker 6: on our website Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making
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• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Your tune to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. If
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: you are a loved one needs a nursing homestay, call
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Todd right now at eight six six eight four eight
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: five six ninety nine and let him make sure your
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: assets are protected. That's eight six six eight for eight
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine, or visit him online at Legal
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Exchange show dot com.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So Todd, we're talking about naming your
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: estate the beneficiary, and last week we dove into who
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: should consider naming the estate there iory beneficiary and basically
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: come down to married folks concerned with protecting from the
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: nursing home kind of as a broad category.
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a fair statement. Single people, and if.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: You're not concerned with the nursing home, not really a
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: need to do that.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: Probably you wouldn't need to do it if you're not
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: concerned about the nursing home. So I think people you know,
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: four million in under, maybe five million in under.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, So under normal circumstances, if you're not doing this
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: testamentary trust revision in your documents, your spouse dies, you
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: take the IRA, you roll it into yours, it gets
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: combined with your.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: Own and so it's surviving spouse always the primary beneficiary.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: I agree.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: So yep, under this scenario where we've named the estate
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: the IRA beneficiary, And just to clarify, folks, you have
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: to have updated your legal documents in order to do this.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, please, you can't just run around. Don't just run
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: out now and do this no good point.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: I send yourself to probate for no good reason.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you could be blowing the payout period. We'll
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: get to that.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: So you have you have noted that once this happens,
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: any money that's in the deceased spouses IRA protected immediately
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: from the nursing home.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: Yes, but before you get there that that is true.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: But before you get there, let's stick with when to
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: name the designated beneficiary the estate, because you said you
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: would do it when you're married. If you're not, Mari,
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: if you're married and you don't care it, it's going
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: to go immediately to the spouse. But when if we
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: are married and we care about it, that's not enough. Yeah, okay,
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: there's another important piece. Right. You can't just say, okay,
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: I'm married and I do want to protect assets from
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: the nursing home. Therefore, right, good point. Name the IRA,
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: the beneficiary. Name the the IRA, beneficiary the estate of
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: like state of todd letsky, let's say if it's if
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: it's your IRA, it's the estate of your name. Okay,
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: you can't still just do it. One more box you
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: have to check is how old are you? Right? So
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: you need to be And I guess this is changing too,
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: but I think for most people in this area, the
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: required beginning date, or the RBD as they call it,
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: which is when you must start taking minimum distributions from
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: the IRA, is seventy three. Yep, for most people. I
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: think there's a new seventy five. There is, But you
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: have to be a certain age.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Someone's super young like myself.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you might be seventy five, me not somewhere probably
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: seventy three seventy three. So you know, if you're older,
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: Let's say you're sixty and over now and you're thinking
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: of doing this, you still need to be seventy three
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: before you would name the estate the beneficiary. And the
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: reason for that is the minimum payouts, right, the required
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: minimum distributions following your death right. That's what we care about.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: How quickly does the money have to come out.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: But if someone's doing their trust planning with you at
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: sixty five, you would still have the language in this trust.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: To do this.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: You just wouldn't advise them to update the beneficiary until
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: they are rmd ah correct, got it.
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: We still would want to plan for it. Set the
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: stage if you will, and allow it to work. But
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: put the little trigger on your wallet and your watch
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: or something that rings that says it's time to change
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: the beneficiary at seventy three, which it's generally you know,
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: you know, when you reach seventy three someone tells you
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: you've got to start doing something money out, it's going
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: to remind you, right that you need to now change
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: the beneficiary on the IRA to be the estate of
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: And the real reason for that is so that the
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: payout over time will continue over your ghost life expectancy.
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: And we'll come back and I want to explain what
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: ghost life expectancy is as to a ten year payout
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: in a minute. But folks, that's just some of the
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: IRA stuff you have to think about when you're doing
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: your estate plan, and that's what this guide is all about.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: It's explaining all of this. I naming your estate the
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: IRA beneficiary or life insurance naming it the estate the
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: beneficiary because it can be done now to protect these
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: items from nursing homes, reduce estate taxes and not have
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: adverse income taxes. But you've got to learn all the
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: rules on how to do that, including understanding testamentary trust,
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: which is all in the guide. Folks, call and get
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: it eight six six eight four eight five six ninety
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange show dot com. This techniqu's only
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: been around for a couple of years, so it's kind
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: of new eight six six eight four eight five six
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: ninety nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: So you said that the required minimum distributions after the
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: spouse dies and the testamentary trust is funded, that's based
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: on the deceased spouse's age, ghost life expectancy.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's run through required minimum distributions in general,
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: so we can get the whole lay of the land.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: If you're married and you name your spouse the designated beneficiary.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: The spouse is super beneficiary. The spouse can either wait
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: until the spouse is seventy three to start taking minimum
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: distributions over the spouse's lifetime surviving spouse, or if there
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: already seventy three, they get to take it out over
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: their lifetime. Better. Yes, if you name the estate the
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: beneficiary and you're not seventy three, you have not reached
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: the required beginning date, then the money has to come
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: out over five years. That could be a painful income
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: tax event, so be careful about that. However, if you
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: have reached the required beginning date, then the money comes
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: out over your You've died, so it's your decedents, your
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: ghost life expectancy. Example, if you die at seventy eight,
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: then it comes out over a seventy eight year old's
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: life expectancy. Now you might say, well, Todd, why, Well,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: you know, isn't it always better to name the spouse then,
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: because the spouse can take it out over their life expectancy.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: Most of the time, the spouse is within a few
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: years of the same age as the decedent, so if
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: they are, you're not really gaining anything.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: And the distributions are not the big thing here.
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: It's the protection of those assets. The distributions could be
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: from a tax standpoint, So we like to have it.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: But you're absolutely right, Susan.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Let's not lose sight of that.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: So now I get it. Now, that's how we don't
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: I was saying when I was promoting the guide a
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: minute ago that I was saying, how there's no adverse
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: income tax consequence. And this is what I mean by that.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: As long as that RBD you have met that and
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: it's coming out over the decedents ghost life expectancy pretty
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: much the same income tax hit as if it was
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: the spouse or no problem there.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: So let's say I'm the recipient of these funds through
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: the testamentary trust. What if I want to take more?
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Are there restrictions on me taking out? Because the required
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: minimum it's just a minimum you have to take out.
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And so that's another beautiful benefit of the IRA regula,
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: of the of the Medicaid regulations. Right, And this is
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: where you get into understanding the rules of Medicaid and
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: testamentary trusts. Remember, because this item is going to go
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: through probate, it's the only if there's a negative. That's
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: the only negative. But I think it's minor then because
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: it did that, and it's it's funding a trust through
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: a will. Distributions of both income and principle can come
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: out out of this trust to the surviving spouse. Remember,
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: as much as they want, mostly medicaid trust don't allow
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: payments of principle. Remember not this one. This one allows
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: the surviving spouse to have really unlimited access to the money,
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: same as if they got it on their own. Yeah,
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: we can spend more time on that as we go
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: through the month. But folks, these are just some of
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: the pieces of information that you're going to get from
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: the guide on Estate Beneficiaries of iras and life Insurance
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: how to treat them eight six six eight four eight
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: five six nine to nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Pushing In Dolan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advice with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: We thank you for joining us today and we'll be
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: back again next week on the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Every dollar you've saved in retirement accounts and life insurance
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: tells a story, a story of hard work, smart choices,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: and the future you envision for your family. One way
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: to help that story end well is to make a
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: beneficiary choice that does more. This month's free guide from
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan IRA and Life Insurance, Planning Estate tax
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Strategies in Nursing Home Protection explains how naming your estate
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: is the beneficiary of your IRA or life insurance can
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: at a layer of tax efficiency in nursing home protection
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: while still allowing your spouse access when it matters. It's
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: about keeping more of what you've built, working for your
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: loved ones now and in the years to come. Get
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: you a free copy today by calling eight six six
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: eight four eight five six ninety nine. That's eight six
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: six eight four eight five six nine nine, or you
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: can request it online from our website Legal exchange showed
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: dot com. The proceeding was paid for and the views
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Dolan and Ormstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: investment services. Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: endorse each other and are not a feeling.
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: Hi, this is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 52:03
  Speaker 6: One of the biggest risks to retirement isn't just market volatility,
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  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
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  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
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  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
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