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Ep. 228 - How to Fight Off Discouragement · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  Philip DeCourcy: It's nice to be on a podcast today because, tip, like I'm on the radio, I have a voice for radio but not a face for television.
• 1:09
  Philip DeCourcy: But I look in the mirror metaphorically and I see, you know, did I just do that?
• 1:14
  Philip DeCourcy: Did I just say that?
• 1:15
  Philip DeCourcy: Why is my prayer life not more robust?
• 1:17
  Philip DeCourcy: Why is my walk with God not more authentic?
• 1:20
  Philip DeCourcy: Why doesn't obedience come easily?
• 1:22
  Philip DeCourcy: Because there's a the Puritans talk about, there's a spy in the castle, I've got sin in my heart, and so all of those are constantly working against us.
• 1:31
  Philip DeCourcy: And so what I would say and you know, you guys are about to chip in just I think discouragement is a reality we can't run from.
• 1:41
  Philip DeCourcy: I think there's general discouragement, which I've just talked about.
• 1:43
  Philip DeCourcy: The real issue is fighting particular discouragement, letting it get seeping into your soul.
• 1:49
  Philip DeCourcy: Where you you get really done, really depressed, you get.
• 1:53
  Philip DeCourcy: You know there's no window out from the moment you're in, and so the trick for me are that the issue.
• 2:01
  Philip DeCourcy: I think we always go, we're always going to be discouraged.
• 2:05
  Philip DeCourcy: The challenge is to be more encouraged than discouraged.
• 2:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Try this on first eyes.
• 2:16
  Emeal Zwayne: Gentlemen, there is something I don't know that I am supposed to know.
• 2:21
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't know what it is.
• 2:23
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't know and yet I'm supposed to know, and I feel I look stupid if I seem both not to know it and not know what it is.
• 2:31
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't know, therefore I pretend to know it.
• 2:34
  Emeal Zwayne: This is nerve wracking.
• 2:37
  Emeal Zwayne: Since I don't know what, I must pretend to know.
• 2:39
  Emeal Zwayne: Therefore, I pretend to know everything.
• 2:42
  Emeal Zwayne: I feel you know what I'm supposed to know, but you can't tell me what it is because you don't know that I don't know what it is.
• 2:49
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm just going to go on and forth you may know what I don't know, but not that I don't know it and I can't tell you.
• 2:55
  Emeal Zwayne: So you will have to tell me everything.
• 2:58
  Ray Comfort: I don't know what you're talking about right now I do.
• 2:59
  Ray Comfort: That's ridiculous.
• 3:00
  Ray Comfort: You're describing your brain.
• 3:02
  Mark Spence: No, you're talking about the woman's mind right, or I mean we're supposed to read the woman's mind at all times.
• 3:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh that reminds me of that book Ray Everything man Learned About Woman.
• 3:08
  Ray Comfort: It was empty, it was nothing in it.
• 3:10
  Ray Comfort: The blind page, total blank page.
• 3:12
  Ray Comfort: It wasn't even one page, it was totally blank.
• 3:13
  Emeal Zwayne: Total blank the whole thing.
• 3:15
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, yeah, we interrupt this program to let you know that Easy Forgot to Give Attribution for this little poem.
• 3:21
  Emeal Zwayne: It's by R D Lang and the other one he's about to quote.
• 3:24
  Emeal Zwayne: He has no idea who's it is, he just knows it's not his.
• 3:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
• 3:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Here's another one.
• 3:31
  Emeal Zwayne: I like this.
• 3:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, another one.
• 3:33
  Emeal Zwayne: Aren't you excited, right?
• 3:34
  Mark Spence: No, we could have skipped it.
• 3:35
  Mark Spence: He who?
• 3:36
  Emeal Zwayne: thinks he knows but doesn't know is a fool.
• 3:38
  Emeal Zwayne: Shun him.
• 3:39
  Emeal Zwayne: He who knows but doesn't know that he knows is asleep.
• 3:41
  Emeal Zwayne: Wake him.
• 3:42
  Emeal Zwayne: He who doesn't know and knows that he doesn't know is asleep.
• 3:44
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh wait, I put that in the screen, I don't know.
• 3:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Anyway, who knows and knows that he knows is a wise man.
• 3:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Follow him.
• 3:52
  Emeal Zwayne: And yes, friends, that very unfamiliar, maybe strange voice is familiar to us.
• 3:58
  Emeal Zwayne: We have a special guest with us my pastor, mark Spence's pastor, philip DeCorsi.
• 4:05
  Emeal Zwayne: No, no, no, hey, hey, hey.
• 4:07
  Emeal Zwayne: The Irishman, the Irishman, the Irishman, pastor, thanks for coming in for this special session of X-Communicating, mark, okay.
• 4:15
  Oscar Navarro: That actually leads me to my first question for you.
• 4:17
  Oscar Navarro: First, do you guys practice church discipline?
• 4:20
  Oscar Navarro: And then the follow-up question is that how often do you have to practice it with EZ and Mark?
• 4:25
  Philip DeCourcy: We do practice it, but thankfully we haven't had to do it with him.
• 4:27
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, but you know they're not out of the woods yet.
• 4:30
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, yeah, I've got some notes for you, but it's a joy to be here.
• 4:35
  Philip DeCourcy: I've had it in my calendar for a while.
• 4:36
  Philip DeCourcy: Love you guys, appreciate what you're doing, and so to sit around the table, it's just a joy.
• 4:42
  Ray Comfort: Yeah.
• 4:43
  Philip DeCourcy: Although the back of my mind I feel like maybe it's Daniel and the lion's den but we'll say so, which one are you?
• 4:49
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, exactly I hope to be.
• 4:50
  Philip DeCourcy: Daniel yeah.
• 4:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Pastor, it really is a blessing to have you and I was thinking this morning just about this change that ended up.
• 4:58
  Emeal Zwayne: What's that Comfort?
• 4:59
  Emeal Zwayne: It's a change to hear you thinking.
• 5:01
  Emeal Zwayne: I know it's a new thing, I'm trying, but just how our paths connected, it went back to prison ministry.
• 5:12
  Philip DeCourcy: That's true.
• 5:12
  Philip DeCourcy: No, I got saved at London and Beach.
• 5:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, but I remember you were on the Frank Pastore show and our well, one of the congregants and our mutual friend, eric Sorensen, heard you and he said, oh man, you got to check out.
• 5:31
  Emeal Zwayne: You know this guy's at the church.
• 5:33
  Emeal Zwayne: I remember I went online and I saw your installation and I saw you being installed by Dr John MacArthur and obviously I've admired him for years.
• 5:42
  Emeal Zwayne: I thought, wow, this is cool.
• 5:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Then Thomas Pertell was looking for a new church.
• 5:45
  Emeal Zwayne: I recommended it.
• 5:46
  Emeal Zwayne: He went, loved it, gave you one of my sermons passing the torch on raising a godly generation.
• 5:53
  Emeal Zwayne: You invited me to speak and then we prayed about it and became home.
• 5:58
  Mark Spence: Yeah, the rest is history and Thomas told me about Kindred.
• 6:01
  Mark Spence: So I went to Kindred because of Thomas.
• 6:03
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, so it's been 14 years now.
• 6:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Wow, about the same for you guys.
• 6:07
  Mark Spence: Mark, yeah, you were there a little longer than me.
• 6:09
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah For the listeners.
• 6:11
  Oscar Navarro: Who is Thomas Pertell?
• 6:12
  Mark Spence: He's one of the elders Kindred.
• 6:14
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, dear friend of the ministry.
• 6:17
  Philip DeCourcy: Chick-fil-A operator disciple of Jesus, great father, good man.
• 6:21
  Philip DeCourcy: We could go on about Thomas Chicken lover.
• 6:23
  Philip DeCourcy: Yeah, you know.
• 6:24
  Philip DeCourcy: Yeah, the benefit is that through you guys, I get to meet Ray in person and in the flesh which is itself a blessing.
• 6:33
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, you don't want to see Ray in the flesh, but, pastor, you have been such a tremendous blessing to us.
• 6:41
  Emeal Zwayne: Obviously, mark and I have seen our gamut of churches through the years, traveling throughout the country in different parts of the world, but one of the things I've said about Kindred time and again is the fact that there is pervasive excellence in the church, from leadership to the pulpit ministry, to the training ministry that we do through various forms missions, evangelism.
• 7:07
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, it's such a blessing.
• 7:09
  Emeal Zwayne: Today, one of the things that we're going to highlight the main topic we're talking about is discouragement.
• 7:16
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm sure you've had your share of discouragement over the years through pastoring, not just at Kindred, other churches and then just ministry in general, the things you've gone through over the years in terms of personal trials and then even maybe back in the days when you were in Ireland and what you experienced there.
• 7:39
  Emeal Zwayne: So we're excited to have you, we're excited to get in all of that.
• 7:43
  Emeal Zwayne: How long have you been in the US, by the way?
• 7:46
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm trying to remember when you got here 94.
• 7:49
  Ray Comfort: It's a lot of years you were a policeman.
• 7:52
  Philip DeCourcy: No I came in 94.
• 7:54
  Ray Comfort: You were a policeman on Ireland, is that?
• 7:56
  Philip DeCourcy: correct, I was Not full-time Ray.
• 7:58
  Philip DeCourcy: I was part-time but Ray was real.
• 8:00
  Philip DeCourcy: I grew up during the troubles there, when the country was in conflict and I felt I needed to do my part.
• 8:06
  Philip DeCourcy: I was an engineer most of the time, but because of the terrorism and the trouble bit like Israel right now, we had large reserve forces, so I was a reserve policeman.
• 8:17
  Ray Comfort: This would be before these guys.
• 8:18
  Ray Comfort: Do you know about the islands, the kind of revolution in Ireland?
• 8:22
  Mark Spence: So we weren't all about it.
• 8:23
  Mark Spence: Yeah, yeah, we were just about it.
• 8:26
  Ray Comfort: Oh, that's funny yeah.
• 8:28
  Philip DeCourcy: Well, if I get into the depths of that, I appreciated those years because I think I lived my faith.
• 8:34
  Philip DeCourcy: I wrote a book called Take Cover about my time in the police.
• 8:37
  Philip DeCourcy: So because you said the title again, because Take Cover, take Cover okay, and one of the things I learned as a police officer was that security's not the absence of danger, it's the presence of God, because as an officer there, we were more likely to be killed off duty and out of uniform.
• 8:58
  Philip DeCourcy: And so though you were living in constant not constant fear as a believer, because we lived in constant trust in God.
• 9:04
  Philip DeCourcy: But the reality of your departure was always there and I learned to cope with that.
• 9:10
  Philip DeCourcy: Deal with that by reminding myself I lived between the hedges of God's providence, job 1.
• 9:15
  Philip DeCourcy: God has written all our days down in the book.
• 9:18
  Philip DeCourcy: The IRA won't determine the day I die at the sovereignty of God.
• 9:22
  Philip DeCourcy: Well, and so that brought a peace and I learned to be brave and courageous and I hope that I passed that on to others.
• 9:29
  Philip DeCourcy: But I learned that and Ken Arute about that in the book that security's not the absence of danger.
• 9:34
  Philip DeCourcy: You can't go anywhere in this world and escape danger, that's true, it's always there.
• 9:39
  Philip DeCourcy: But security's the presence of God.
• 9:43
  Philip DeCourcy: He's always with us.
• 9:44
  Philip DeCourcy: We trust him at all times and he's our shield and he's our defender and I think we, you know that's a message I needed and it's a message others needed.
• 9:54
  Philip DeCourcy: I would say this I've been to the Irish Baptist College, I've been to the master's seminary, but I'm thankful for the life on life training I got just as an engineer and more especially as a police officer.
• 10:05
  Philip DeCourcy: I think my years in law enforcement, you know, helped prepare me to deal with people in their challenges, to understand the fallenness of man, to long for ultimate justice and to act briefly, yeah.
• 10:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Wow, that's great pastor.
• 10:19
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, well, we're going to jump into the topic in a moment, but first one of your comments.
• 10:23
  Emeal Zwayne: This is from Bill H Gates official.
• 10:28
  Oscar Navarro: Oh boy, how I wish it was a real.
• 10:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Bill Gates Can't get enough.
• 10:32
  Emeal Zwayne: This podcast has been such an amazing blessing in my life.
• 10:35
  Emeal Zwayne: I am so grateful for the godly wisdom you guys bring to the table.
• 10:38
  Emeal Zwayne: You all have inspired me and a couple of buddies to start our own podcast aimed at building up others and ourselves and faith.
• 10:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Blessings, guys, here it comes.
• 10:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Ps easy has a beautiful singing voice.
• 10:50
  Mark Spence: Blah, blah, blah Did you notice how he hasn't.
• 10:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Man of wisdom, Bill Gates.
• 10:54
  Oscar Navarro: Did he really say that?
• 10:55
  Oscar Navarro: Thanks to having an amazing voice.
• 10:56
  Ray Comfort: He did.
• 10:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, of course.
• 10:58
  Ray Comfort: Why would you doubt that Ray?
• 10:59
  Ray Comfort: Because he seemed like a sane guy.
• 11:02
  Oscar Navarro: Notice how he hasn't read the other ones that we found for him.
• 11:05
  Oscar Navarro: You know we don't read those, Did you have that?
• 11:07
  Oscar Navarro: There's a couple of them.
• 11:08
  Emeal Zwayne: We don't read those.
• 11:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Okay, friends, this podcast is brought to you by why Jesus Book Book by Ray Comfort.
• 11:17
  Emeal Zwayne: This book will help you recognize Jesus as the only path to everlasting life, identify lies that distort humanity's views of God and use the Bible to highlight our need of the Savior.
• 11:26
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, did you write that book?
• 11:27
  Ray Comfort: It's just a new book.
• 11:28
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, it's just came out.
• 11:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, glorious cover, by the way.
• 11:31
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, beautiful cover.
• 11:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I like it.
• 11:33
  Emeal Zwayne: You don't know what it looks like to you.
• 11:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Have you read it?
• 11:34
  Emeal Zwayne: I didn't know my face on it.
• 11:38
  Ray Comfort: It's a beautiful cover.
• 11:39
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, anyway, friends, check it out, and don't forget the Living Waters mug, the evidence, study Bible, all at Living Waters man, oscar, oh, I am.
• 11:48
  Oscar Navarro: I am Oscar Luke Warman.
• 11:50
  Oscar Navarro: It's been a week, it's been a few weeks.
• 11:52
  Oscar Navarro: What's wrong with you, man?
• 11:53
  Oscar Navarro: You are out of it today.
• 11:54
  Oscar Navarro: That was like the narrow silence.
• 11:55
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, all right, friends.
• 11:57
  Emeal Zwayne: As I said, today we're talking about discouragement, discouragement.
• 12:01
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm glad we have a new voice here, because I get discouraged by these three all the time.
• 12:05
  Emeal Zwayne: Pastor, this is probably one of the most crippling elements, I'd say, for Christians.
• 12:13
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, we're always having to push ourselves to encourage ourselves or to encourage others, because discouragement comes naturally in a fallen, broken world.
• 12:23
  Emeal Zwayne: So I'd love for you to maybe just kick it off by giving us sort of an overview of the element of discouragement, and then we could cut it up and just you know.
• 12:32
  Ray Comfort: Do you say elephant or discouragement?
• 12:34
  Ray Comfort: Elephant, yeah.
• 12:36
  Philip DeCourcy: Yeah, not some reality, right?
• 12:38
  Philip DeCourcy: I remember when I was at the RSPAP, the Scottish doctor River Oakley told us that our job was twofold to go out and disturb the comfortable and comfort the disturbed.
• 12:49
  Philip DeCourcy: And he said on another occasion preach the broken hearts and you'll never lack a congregation.
• 12:54
  Philip DeCourcy: That little phrase has always stood with me because on any given morning I'm standing amidst and above a group of people who are facing all kinds of challenges.
• 13:02
  Philip DeCourcy: Discouragement's real right.
• 13:04
  Philip DeCourcy: Look at the Bible and look at the characters of the Bible.
• 13:06
  Philip DeCourcy: You've got, you know, the people of Israel under Nehemiah discouraged in chapter four.
• 13:11
  Philip DeCourcy: They've got Elijah about to give up and depressed and discouraged After such a great win on the Mount Carmel.
• 13:20
  Philip DeCourcy: You've got Jesus' frustration somewhat with his disciples, right.
• 13:24
  Philip DeCourcy: You know how slow of heart to believe.
• 13:26
  Philip DeCourcy: You've got Paul talking about his distress and discouragement.
• 13:31
  Philip DeCourcy: Look out throughout church history.
• 13:32
  Philip DeCourcy: Spurgeon talks about the fainting fits of the minister.
• 13:35
  Philip DeCourcy: You know Aaron Armjudson almost gives up after the death of his wife and the loss of his child and he says God, to me is the great unknown.
• 13:43
  Philip DeCourcy: We can multiply that, it's just the reality.
• 13:46
  Philip DeCourcy: And I think you know we fight discouragement on three fronts.
• 13:51
  Philip DeCourcy: This is, you know, old theology, simple but it's right, the world will discourage us.
• 13:56
  Philip DeCourcy: You hinted at this.
• 13:56
  Philip DeCourcy: We live in a fallen world, subjective futility, we live under the shadow of death, and there's all of that discourages us.
• 14:04
  Philip DeCourcy: There's so much around us in a fallen world that breaks the heart, troubles the mind, and just living in this world, you know, it's the waters we swim in, so discouragement comes from that.
• 14:17
  Philip DeCourcy: We've got an adversary right, the devil, who's an accuser of the brethren.
• 14:22
  Philip DeCourcy: He's called our adversary in 1 Peter 5, verse 8.
• 14:25
  Philip DeCourcy: So he's always working against us.
• 14:27
  Philip DeCourcy: When something or someone's always working against you, that's discouraging.
• 14:31
  Philip DeCourcy: When you're always in a headwind, you're always rolling against the current.
• 14:33
  Philip DeCourcy: And then there's the flesh.
• 14:35
  Philip DeCourcy: And maybe, you know, nobody discourages me more than myself.
• 14:41
  Philip DeCourcy: You know I look in the mirror, metaphorically speaking.
• 14:45
  Philip DeCourcy: Well, I could look in the mirror physically and that'd be a discouragement enough.
• 14:48
  Philip DeCourcy: But, you know, it's nice to be on a podcast today because typically I'm on the radio, I have a voice for radio but not a face for television.
• 14:56
  Philip DeCourcy: But I look in the mirror metaphorically, and I see, you know, did I just do that?
• 15:01
  Philip DeCourcy: Did I just say that?
• 15:02
  Philip DeCourcy: Why is my prayer life not more robust?
• 15:04
  Philip DeCourcy: Why is my walk with God Not more authentic?
• 15:07
  Philip DeCourcy: Why doesn't obedience come easily?
• 15:09
  Philip DeCourcy: Because there's a the Puritans talk about, there's a spy in the castle, I've got sin in my heart, and so all of those are constantly working against us.
• 15:18
  Philip DeCourcy: And so what I would say and you know, you guys are about to chip in just I think discouragement is a reality we can't run from.
• 15:28
  Philip DeCourcy: I think there's general discouragement, which I've just talked about.
• 15:31
  Philip DeCourcy: The real issue is fighting particular and discouragement, letting it get seeping into your soul.
• 15:37
  Philip DeCourcy: Where you get really down, really depressed, you get.
• 15:41
  Philip DeCourcy: You know there's no window out from the moment you're in, and so the trick for me are that the issue.
• 15:49
  Philip DeCourcy: I think we always go, we're always going to be discouraged.
• 15:52
  Philip DeCourcy: The challenge is to be more encouraged than discouraged.
• 15:55
  Philip DeCourcy: George Verver remember Ray I mean, some of the Americans don't know him as well, but George Verver ran Operation Mobilization, a great man of God, and I remember him saying one day I've never had a discouraging day and then I go hold on a minute, brother, what world do?
• 16:14
  Emeal Zwayne: you live in.
• 16:16
  Philip DeCourcy: But then he went on.
• 16:17
  Philip DeCourcy: It was a little catch.
• 16:17
  Philip DeCourcy: He says I've never had a discouraging day.
• 16:20
  Philip DeCourcy: I've had a discouraging morning, I've had a discouraging afternoon.
• 16:24
  Philip DeCourcy: But the chat, what he's saying, is but some point I got to fight that.
• 16:27
  Philip DeCourcy: At some point I got to overcome that.
• 16:30
  Philip DeCourcy: So you know discouragement.
• 16:32
  Philip DeCourcy: I think I'll be discouraged about the world, about the battle I'm in and about my flesh to the day I die.
• 16:39
  Philip DeCourcy: But we've got to draw from the means of grace and always be more encouraged than discouraged.
• 16:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, you know, ray, you and I have talked about this numerous times, you and I.
• 16:49
  Emeal Zwayne: You and I, you and I how you know we will be riding high, encouraged the Lord did something.
• 16:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Maybe we preached somewhere, or someone wrote into the ministry, said how they've been touched and then like hours later or we might wake up the next morning and we feel totally down.
• 17:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Is that just the vicissitudes of life?
• 17:10
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I've always said I've talked with Sue about the vicissitudes of life.
• 17:13
  Ray Comfort: Wow, what a doctor I can't even say it you know there's a silver line with discouragement.
• 17:18
  Ray Comfort: I was just thinking the other day if only I could walk of humility of heart, then I'd have something to be proud of, and I thought how ridiculous because, I've got this continual conceit going on in my heart the devil, the world the flesh.
• 17:32
  Ray Comfort: It's just crazy.
• 17:33
  Ray Comfort: We've got nothing to be proud of.
• 17:35
  Ray Comfort: And so my prideful thoughts keep me humble.
• 17:39
  Ray Comfort: They make me bow my head before God.
• 17:42
  Ray Comfort: So when I'm weak then I become strong.
• 17:44
  Ray Comfort: It's the same with discouragement.
• 17:45
  Ray Comfort: I'm continually discouraged.
• 17:46
  Ray Comfort: You know you're up and then you're down and you've got these fearful thoughts as fears, coming from different directions.
• 17:52
  Ray Comfort: But what that does is it keeps me at the foot of the cross, it keeps me trusting in Jesus and the whole thought of discouragement.
• 17:58
  Ray Comfort: Break up the word con with discarriage, dis, get rid of your courage.
• 18:07
  Ray Comfort: That's what the enemy wants to do.
• 18:08
  Ray Comfort: And the Bible says in Isaiah 42, I think, verse four, speaking of Jesus he shall not fail nor be discouraged.
• 18:14
  Ray Comfort: And the reason?
• 18:15
  Ray Comfort: And even in the Garden of Gethsemane he didn't lose his courage.
• 18:17
  Ray Comfort: He got his courage.
• 18:18
  Ray Comfort: But he didn't lose his courage because he knew he could not fail.
• 18:22
  Ray Comfort: He shall not fail nor be discouraged.
• 18:24
  Ray Comfort: So we look at 1 Corinthians 15, verse 58, which says therefore, my beloved president, be steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, for your labor is not in vain and the Lord begins with, therefore.
• 18:38
  Ray Comfort: So we go back to the previous verses, and the previous verses speak of the victory that we have over death.
• 18:44
  Ray Comfort: That's why we should never be discouraged.
• 18:46
  Ray Comfort: So think of ourselves as a firefighter.
• 18:49
  Ray Comfort: If a firefighter arrives at a fire and it's just a horrific mess people screaming from the building what does he say?
• 18:54
  Ray Comfort: Man, this is so discouraging.
• 18:57
  Oscar Navarro: I'm going home, that's right.
• 18:59
  Ray Comfort: No, he doesn't listen to his fears, doesn't listen to his thoughts of his.
• 19:02
  Ray Comfort: He's a firefighter, so he pushes them aside.
• 19:05
  Ray Comfort: And that's what we have to do as Christians.
• 19:06
  Ray Comfort: We get all this discouragement.
• 19:08
  Ray Comfort: We say no, no, we're here to seek and say that which is lost.
• 19:10
  Ray Comfort: We're going to glorify God, and there's nothing that's going to take me from that, because I cannot fail, because God's for me.
• 19:16
  Ray Comfort: Nothing can be against me.
• 19:17
  Ray Comfort: That's good.
• 19:18
  Mark Spence: You know, several years ago, Pastor Philip, you had visited my son in a hospital.
• 19:21
  Mark Spence: I actually just kind of bumped into you.
• 19:23
  Mark Spence: You were visiting somebody else and I told you about my son who had been admitted.
• 19:26
  Mark Spence: He had C diff, and you shared a couple of scriptures that I've never forgotten.
• 19:30
  Mark Spence: Wow remind me you spoke encouragement into his life and it was Mark 438.
• 19:37
  Mark Spence: Don't you care that we're perishing?
• 19:38
  Mark Spence: And you painted the picture where we have these seasoned fishermen.
• 19:41
  Mark Spence: Here's Jesus going over to Decapolis, the 10 cities, crossing the Sea of Galilee, and they're discouraged and all of the bills, all the waves they're coming down over.
• 19:51
  Mark Spence: And then finally Peter wakes up, jesus, and he says don't you care that we are perishing.
• 20:00
  Mark Spence: So we went from the beginning part of Jesus's ministry where Peter pipes up and he says don't you care?
• 20:06
  Mark Spence: All the way to 1 Peter, chapter 5 or 7, where it says cast all your cares on him, for he cares for you.
• 20:12
  Mark Spence: And you pointed out the picture where here's Peter walking with Jesus over some time, starting off with don't you care?
• 20:18
  Mark Spence: To what do you got?
• 20:20
  Mark Spence: Cast that, cast that care on Jesus because he cares.
• 20:26
  Mark Spence: And I looked up that word cast and it literally means to throw upon, to remove from yourself, and it's like ever walked into a spider web, like in the night, where it's like dark, it's like you're able to do aerobics and lose, like 150 calories within three seconds Like you're, just like you're going crazy.
• 20:42
  Mark Spence: Well that's kind of the, that's the idea, that's the picture within the Vulgate.
• 20:45
  Mark Spence: You grab ahold of what you have and you're throwing it over upon Jesus, and here he is.
• 20:51
  Mark Spence: You can cast anything, whatever you've got and it's spoken encouragement into my son's light and into mine as well.
• 20:57
  Philip DeCourcy: That's good, that's good.
• 20:58
  Philip DeCourcy: I would just piggyback off something I think is very important Don't discount the physical when it comes to discouragement, because you're just saying maybe you and Ray or Mark or Oscar, you've had a great conference a day away, you preach your heart out, you've delivered the sermon on the soul, and we often forget it's in the backwash of exhaustion.
• 21:16
  Philip DeCourcy: The discouragement and depression comes.
• 21:18
  Philip DeCourcy: If you look at Elijah, you know he's after a win After a win, he's done in the dumps.
• 21:24
  Philip DeCourcy: And what does God do?
• 21:25
  Philip DeCourcy: He feeds him and he puts him to sleep.
• 21:27
  Philip DeCourcy: I talked about it.
• 21:28
  Philip DeCourcy: He gives him two nights of bread and breakfast free of charge.
• 21:31
  Philip DeCourcy: And we mustn't discount the body, and as much as possible and some of us have the burden of continual ill health but we should do all we can to keep as fit as we can and physically, you know, as strong as we can.
• 21:47
  Philip DeCourcy: We mustn't be nostic in our view of the body.
• 21:50
  Philip DeCourcy: Our body and our souls live in close quarter and they catch each other's diseases and the.
• 21:55
  Philip DeCourcy: You know, the spirit is willing but the body of the flesh is weak.
• 21:59
  Philip DeCourcy: And you know, famously, robert Murray McSheen, who was a great Scottish pastor.
• 22:04
  Philip DeCourcy: My wife is from Scotland and he died at 29.
• 22:08
  Philip DeCourcy: And he's famous for this statement God give me a message on a horse and I killed the horse.
• 22:13
  Philip DeCourcy: Wow, he seems to be admitting he didn't care of his body.
• 22:17
  Philip DeCourcy: So just you know, we tend to over spiritualize discouragement and depression.
• 22:22
  Philip DeCourcy: And good night's sleep, a good meal, the company of friends.
• 22:25
  Philip DeCourcy: I don't know what it is, but don't discount the physical part of discouragement.
• 22:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Man pastor, that's so huge.
• 22:31
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm glad you mentioned that, in fact.
• 22:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, you were just running Rygood recently yourself.
• 22:35
  Emeal Zwayne: You're never talking about this, yeah it's true, and a lot of times people like you're saying ignore that.
• 22:41
  Emeal Zwayne: And oftentimes, when I'm counseling people and they're going through especially depression, I ask them look, do you exercise?
• 22:46
  Emeal Zwayne: What are your eating habits like?
• 22:48
  Emeal Zwayne: What are your sleeping habits like?
• 22:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Are you journaling?
• 22:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Are you filling your soul with good music?
• 22:53
  Emeal Zwayne: That's turning your gaze toward eternity.
• 22:55
  Emeal Zwayne: Those things have a massive impact.
• 22:57
  Emeal Zwayne: And even a conversation with someone who understands you, you know when I'm discouraged and I just talk to a brother who knows me, knows my life, knows my background and knows God's word, that just breeds life back into me.
• 23:12
  Emeal Zwayne: So that's a huge element.
• 23:13
  Oscar Navarro: I think a big step, which is kind of what you guys are getting at here, is that any negative emotion, especially discouragement, we need to first use that as a diagnostic tool for our lives, because so often in our modern day, anytime you're discouraged, anytime you're down, our immediate resolution is to get busy.
• 23:29
  Oscar Navarro: Right Is to ignore the pain and the suffering and busy yourself up with social media, busy yourself up with a busy calendar or mask.
• 23:37
  Oscar Navarro: Mask it right, mask it with busyness essentially.
• 23:40
  Oscar Navarro: And what it does is that builds up all of this tension of discouragement that, if left unchecked, will ultimately take control of our lives.
• 23:48
  Oscar Navarro: Paul Tripp, a friend of mine, said it like this left unchecked, discouragement will become your eyes and ears, determining what you see and hear and how you see and hear it.
• 23:57
  Oscar Navarro: Unchecked, it will become the master of your emotions and the ruler of your choices and actions.
• 24:02
  Oscar Navarro: Unchecked discouragement will rob you of your hope and motivation.
• 24:06
  Oscar Navarro: It will steal your reason for doing good.
• 24:09
  Oscar Navarro: It will rob you of your ability to trust.
• 24:12
  Oscar Navarro: It will make you closed, self-protective and easily overwhelmed.
• 24:16
  Oscar Navarro: Discouragement will sap you of your strength and courage.
• 24:19
  Oscar Navarro: It will cause you to see negative where nothing is negative and miss the positive that is right in front of you.
• 24:24
  Oscar Navarro: If given room, discouragement will tell you lies that have the power to destroy your life, and so to use these negative emotions, discouragement as a diagnostic tool.
• 24:40
  Oscar Navarro: And one of my favorite things to ask guys who are discouraged, or even myself in a moment, is this what lie am I believing?
• 24:49
  Mark Spence: What lie am?
• 24:50
  Oscar Navarro: I believing about myself?
• 24:51
  Oscar Navarro: What lie am I believing about God?
• 24:53
  Oscar Navarro: What lie am I believing about the world around me?
• 24:57
  Oscar Navarro: And then to take that lie, once you've analyzed that through prayer, through meditation, through talking with friends, to take that lie and to replace it with the truth of God's word.
• 25:08
  Oscar Navarro: So I just wrote down a few examples.
• 25:09
  Oscar Navarro: When you are discouraged because you're like man, I am worthless.
• 25:13
  Oscar Navarro: James 1, 18, you are God's prized possession.
• 25:17
  Oscar Navarro: You're a mess up man.
• 25:20
  Oscar Navarro: You are forgiven First.
• 25:21
  Oscar Navarro: John 1, 9, you're never going to change.
• 25:24
  Oscar Navarro: When you're dealing with sin, he who began a good work in you is faithful to carry it out.
• 25:29
  Oscar Navarro: Philippians 1, 6, your life is pointless when you believe that lie.
• 25:33
  Oscar Navarro: Psalm 139, you were made for the day and the day was made for you.
• 25:39
  Oscar Navarro: See, so often we need to preach the gospel to ourselves in those moments of discouragement.
• 25:47
  Mark Spence: Mark, as he said, if you do not meditate on God's word, you're going to believe.
• 25:51
  Mark Spence: Lies are True.
• 25:53
  Mark Spence: So we need to be found meditating continually, speaking truth over us over and, over and over again.
• 25:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Amen, combining the lies with truth, yeah, yeah.
• 26:01
  Philip DeCourcy: And you know it's important to focus on what voice we're listening to.
• 26:06
  Philip DeCourcy: I mean, I did a study just recently on Nehemiah 4, which is a chapter on discouragement.
• 26:12
  Philip DeCourcy: In chapter 4, verses 8 to 10, they talked about, you know, the strength of the laborers was feeling they were not able.
• 26:20
  Philip DeCourcy: There was so much, you know, rubbish and rubble still to be moved.
• 26:24
  Philip DeCourcy: And I think it was an old pastor in Scotland, george B Duncan, who pastored a church at Ultimey, sinclair, ferguson pastor, that he said there's three voices in chapter 4.
• 26:36
  Philip DeCourcy: He says there's the voice of Sambalit and Tobiah and Gashem who say we're going to come and destroy your work.
• 26:43
  Philip DeCourcy: So the voice there is you can't.
• 26:45
  Philip DeCourcy: So the enemy will say you can't or no.
• 26:47
  Philip DeCourcy: So the enemy will say you won't, we're not going to let it happen, you're not going to build that church, you're not going to raise that godly family, you're not going to be an effective servant for Jesus Christ.
• 26:57
  Philip DeCourcy: And sometimes we listen to that voice.
• 26:59
  Philip DeCourcy: And then the other voice was the voice of the people in their own discouragement, to your point that you know they were listening to themselves, which is a mistake, you know.
• 27:09
  Philip DeCourcy: That's the Lloyd-Jones Psalm 42 quote listening to yourself.
• 27:14
  Philip DeCourcy: talk to yourself when you get up in the morning, your mind and your heart's already talking, it's already carrying on the conversation of the night before and you need to interrupt those internal conversations with the word of God and allow the spirit of God, the whisper of peace, and then you know, and then the third voice is the voice of God.
• 27:37
  Philip DeCourcy: You know, near my says to him, and near my 414, remember God, awesome and mighty, he will fight for you.
• 27:43
  Philip DeCourcy: And so I loved that outland.
• 27:46
  Philip DeCourcy: He came across it years ago and I've gone back to it on discouraging days.
• 27:49
  Philip DeCourcy: Hey, you know, the world wants to say to me you won't.
• 27:52
  Philip DeCourcy: Sometimes I convince myself I can't and they need to remind myself God will.
• 27:57
  Philip DeCourcy: When I was in right talked about my time in the RUC.
• 28:00
  Philip DeCourcy: I remember in one of our early trainings we had the watch of video of officers.
• 28:06
  Philip DeCourcy: It was an American video about actually police officers in America who had been shot and by all medical measure they shouldn't have died.
• 28:13
  Philip DeCourcy: It wasn't a life-threatening shot or wound but they just assumed I've been shot, I'm going to die.
• 28:20
  Philip DeCourcy: And they listened to that internal voice and they said many officers died unnecessarily and the training video was to train us.
• 28:28
  Philip DeCourcy: If you get shot, you've got to be tough mentally.
• 28:31
  Philip DeCourcy: You've got to fight that voice inside.
• 28:34
  Philip DeCourcy: I'm dying and remind yourself, hey, I'm going to stay alive.
• 28:38
  Philip DeCourcy: You watch those movies, stay with me.
• 28:41
  Philip DeCourcy: And so ultimately, that's all in the hands of God.
• 28:45
  Philip DeCourcy: But we need to fight internally those voices of surrender and death.
• 28:50
  Philip DeCourcy: So the world is full of voices and we need to make sure that God's voice is loudest of all.
• 28:57
  Emeal Zwayne: That's good.
• 28:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and Ray, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
• 29:00
  Emeal Zwayne: And then, pastor, I want to read something that JI Packer said about the Puritans and get your feedback on it.
• 29:05
  Emeal Zwayne: But, ray, we're talking about having, in a sense, a battle plan to combat discouragement.
• 29:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Randy Smith said this.
• 29:11
  Emeal Zwayne: He said if you serve in gospel ministry, there will be loads of opposition.
• 29:15
  Emeal Zwayne: Even Jesus Christ faced it.
• 29:16
  Emeal Zwayne: And since staying disengaged is not an option, it's wise to ready yourself right now to be prepared for the pitfalls toward discouragement and armed with reasons to persevere with a resolute heart and then to piggyback on that.
• 29:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Nancy Leydemoss said one of the most valuable aids to meditation is scripture memorization.
• 29:35
  Emeal Zwayne: In fact, when I encounter someone who is battling discouragement or depression, I often ask two questions Are you singing to the Lord and are you memorizing scripture?
• 29:43
  Emeal Zwayne: These two exercises are not some magical formula to make all our problems go away, but they do have incredible power to change our perspective and attitude toward the issues we are facing.
• 29:52
  Emeal Zwayne: That's something that has been a standout sort of characteristic of yours and that's determining to praise God.
• 30:00
  Emeal Zwayne: You talk about leaping for joy, literally at times, and also hiding God's word in your heart.
• 30:05
  Emeal Zwayne: How care those things.
• 30:06
  Ray Comfort: It's an attitude of mine.
• 30:07
  Ray Comfort: Speaking of that, I just read a quote by Charles Birchon.
• 30:10
  Mark Spence: There's hardship in everything except eating pancakes.
• 30:12
  Mark Spence: Go ahead, Ray.
• 30:13
  Mark Spence: No, just stolen.
• 30:14
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, charles Birchon said there's hardship in everything except eating pancakes.
• 30:17
  Ray Comfort: So how cool was that that a guy with such status spiritually could say something as carnal as that.
• 30:25
  Ray Comfort: But it's so true.
• 30:26
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I used to encourage myself when I was preaching the Gospel down in Christchurch, did it most days for about 12 years and it was tremendously discouraging in the sense that I had a group of guys that would show up every day.
• 30:36
  Ray Comfort: They'd be waiting for me there.
• 30:38
  Ray Comfort: They were on the doll.
• 30:39
  Emeal Zwayne: There you go, yeah, get it and that's around.
• 30:42
  Ray Comfort: And the highlight of their life was to discourage me when I was preaching and they'd go up the top of the cathedral, lean over when I was preaching the Gospel of everlasting life and just call out together in unison boring.
• 30:55
  Oscar Navarro: It was the Lord's way of preparing you for this podcast, and they do it every day continually boring, and it's the message of everlasting life.
• 31:03
  Ray Comfort: So I'd say to myself I have the privilege of preaching the everlasting Gospel in the last days and the uttermost part of the earth, in the city that bears the name of the Lord.
• 31:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Christchurch.
• 31:15
  Ray Comfort: And it really was the uttermost part of the earth.
• 31:17
  Ray Comfort: If you put a needle from Jerusalem right through the earth it'd be really annoying.
• 31:21
  Ray Comfort: But you come out of the city of Christ.
• 31:27
  Ray Comfort: It's just out by the ocean, so it used to really encourage me.
• 31:30
  Ray Comfort: So you got to speak to yourself a lot and realize I go twice a day to the local college on my bike with my dog wearing sunglasses and cheer the Gospel and every time I get on the bike just as I'm about to leave, I feel these discouragements.
• 31:43
  Emeal Zwayne: And.
• 31:43
  Emeal Zwayne: I just I'm not going to take any notice of that, that's good yeah, and Mark also, giving thanks is a huge remedy to discouragement it is.
• 31:51
  Mark Spence: Scripture says to give thanks and all things, for this is the will of God.
• 31:53
  Mark Spence: In Christ Jesus, I'm determined to thank God for things he's never heard.
• 32:00
  Mark Spence: Thank you for Right.
• 32:01
  Mark Spence: I was at, I spoke at a church in this past Sunday.
• 32:06
  Philip DeCourcy: And as I was sitting there Right top of the list.
• 32:11
  Mark Spence: As I was sitting there inside the church, I remember just thanking God for the chair that I was sitting in.
• 32:15
  Mark Spence: I'm thinking, you know, I bet nobody's ever thanked God for that chair that I just sat in before I got up here.
• 32:20
  Mark Spence: And I want to give thanks to the Lord in everything, in good times, in bad times, in everything.
• 32:26
  Mark Spence: Vance Havner said sometimes God puts you on your back so that you look up, look up, right, and that is the idea that we are perpetually designed within our DNA to always look up.
• 32:36
  Mark Spence: You know Christina Pertell.
• 32:38
  Mark Spence: I had said something to her about trials and I said you know, the hardest trial you'll ever go through is the one you're going through right now, until tomorrow hits.
• 32:45
  Mark Spence: And she said ah, correction, now this is spoken from a woman who's going through cancer.
• 32:50
  Mark Spence: She said you know, the hardest trial you'll ever go through is the one you're going through Without the Lord.
• 32:55
  Mark Spence: No, because when your eyes are on the Lord, you can mock the tumultuous storm that is around you.
• 32:59
  Mark Spence: It just doesn't matter.
• 33:01
  Mark Spence: Yeah, it just doesn't matter when your eyes are on, lord, because this is not our home and we're homesick for a home We've never been to.
• 33:06
  Mark Spence: I looked at my age today, in days I'm 18,873 days I've been counting the days.
• 33:16
  Mark Spence: Scripture says to number our days and our youth.
• 33:19
  Mark Spence: That means in light of your death.
• 33:21
  Mark Spence: Are you making sure that your days?
• 33:22
  Mark Spence: Yeah, amen there is no wasted days.
• 33:25
  Mark Spence: There's no time to waste.
• 33:26
  Mark Spence: That's good.
• 33:27
  Mark Spence: We cannot waste time.
• 33:28
  Philip DeCourcy: Yeah good, Can I?
• 33:29
  Philip DeCourcy: There's another thing too Just keep persevering.
• 33:32
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean.
• 33:32
  Philip DeCourcy: I want to publicly salute you guys.
• 33:34
  Philip DeCourcy: I mean you and Ray's life shows this.
• 33:38
  Philip DeCourcy: Just, you just turn up, ray has turned up, you guys have turned up again.
• 33:42
  Philip DeCourcy: Everybody thinks probably for you guys it's easy, but I know you use of gotta fight the darts, the discouragement, the public mockery, and I think perseverance is Is a theme in the Bible that you know, theology, the perseverance of the saints.
• 33:55
  Philip DeCourcy: But you know Galatians 6, 9 to 10, you know, don't be weary and well-doing, keep doing it for in due season.
• 34:02
  Philip DeCourcy: Yeah, one of we are.
• 34:03
  Philip DeCourcy: I wonder how many times we've stopped short of God's blessing.
• 34:07
  Philip DeCourcy: Similarly, because we didn't persevere endurance.
• 34:09
  Philip DeCourcy: Hebrews 12.
• 34:11
  Philip DeCourcy: I mean one of our elders, mark of on, said recently at our elders man I thought was really good, some people have a heart for ministry, they don't have a stomach, hmm.
• 34:20
  Oscar Navarro: It's really good right.
• 34:21
  Philip DeCourcy: I like that and and we need a stomach, we need guts, we need we just need to put the head down.
• 34:26
  Philip DeCourcy: Like William Kerry, I can plot, and so that's not this kind just plotting to the mother that's tired, just plot To the street evangelist.
• 34:34
  Philip DeCourcy: Just plot to the pastor feels this may be as long as last sermon, just plot, I think.
• 34:39
  Philip DeCourcy: You know, sometimes there's nothing else to do than keep on doing what you're doing until God brings you to a, you know, a season of renewal or a season of blessing.
• 34:49
  Philip DeCourcy: So that's not this kind, just persevere.
• 34:52
  Oscar Navarro: So here's the thing.
• 34:53
  Oscar Navarro: This is the difference between when the scriptures tells us to persevere Versus that you know, pick yourself up by your bootstraps, do it yourself kind of perseverance which is just a self-help motivation, and that's certainly not what we're saying.
• 35:05
  Oscar Navarro: What we are saying is Look, persevere, because you can see how God has loved you.
• 35:12
  Oscar Navarro: You can.
• 35:13
  Oscar Navarro: It's exactly right.
• 35:14
  Oscar Navarro: You.
• 35:14
  Oscar Navarro: You take account of your status before the Lord.
• 35:17
  Oscar Navarro: I love J A Packers quote where he says to be forgiven by a righteous judge is great news, but to be loved by a father in heaven who has adopted you is the greatest news, and that is at the heart of the gospel.
• 35:34
  Oscar Navarro: That's what he says and I think that that's you know.
• 35:36
  Oscar Navarro: I know I've shared the story before, but truly this is what causes me to persevere is to to notice the love of my father, and I've shared before Philip, I don't know if you've heard, but I grew up.
• 35:46
  Oscar Navarro: I grew up without a biological father.
• 35:48
  Oscar Navarro: I was.
• 35:48
  Oscar Navarro: I was told he left before my first birthday.
• 35:50
  Oscar Navarro: I had abusive stepdads.
• 35:53
  Oscar Navarro: You know I'd won.
• 35:54
  Oscar Navarro: For seven years it was physically abusive, another one for seven years it was sexually abusive.
• 35:58
  Oscar Navarro: I was kicked out of my house by the time I was 13.
• 36:01
  Oscar Navarro: So just, I had no father figures.
• 36:04
  Oscar Navarro: And then by the time I was 30, my wife is like, hey, let's try to find your biological father.
• 36:09
  Oscar Navarro: And I, the only two stories that I knew about my biological father was that he was a drunkard that's what my grandma told me and that he liked to get into bar fights.
• 36:18
  Oscar Navarro: So in my mind at 30, I'm like I don't need to go reach out to this guy.
• 36:21
  Oscar Navarro: It doesn't really sound like he has much to offer.
• 36:24
  Oscar Navarro: You know, and thinking back, I just had bad fatherly experiences.
• 36:29
  Oscar Navarro: I can specifically remember one of my stepdads at the wedding of my mom's wedding.
• 36:34
  Oscar Navarro: With him, like he's walking around and I can hear people ask like, oh, who's that kid over there pointing to me, and I remember him saying oh, that's Becky's son, you know.
• 36:43
  Oscar Navarro: So even a call them stepdads wasn't really like they didn't never wanted to be my father, you know, man just didn't have a dad.
• 36:49
  Oscar Navarro: So anyways, fast forward and 30 something years old, I start to try to find my biological father.
• 36:55
  Oscar Navarro: And actually I'm on the phone with easy when I get a phone call and I'm like I think this is him.
• 37:00
  Oscar Navarro: So I hang up the phone with him and I answer.
• 37:02
  Oscar Navarro: And it's him and and the story shifted Massively.
• 37:06
  Oscar Navarro: Essentially he did not leave us.
• 37:08
  Oscar Navarro: My mom, sort of she, was in.
• 37:09
  Oscar Navarro: She was an addict.
• 37:10
  Oscar Navarro: She kind of pushed him out of our lives and he was looking for me for a really long time, just couldn't find me.
• 37:15
  Oscar Navarro: So I meet this man, I go over to his house.
• 37:18
  Oscar Navarro: They've got pictures of me on the wall.
• 37:20
  Oscar Navarro: They would remember he showed me a calendar.
• 37:22
  Oscar Navarro: They would celebrate my birthday every year, count up my age.
• 37:26
  Oscar Navarro: During Christmas they would Remember me.
• 37:30
  Oscar Navarro: The neighbors knew me by name, my.
• 37:32
  Oscar Navarro: I have two little brothers.
• 37:33
  Oscar Navarro: Their friends knew me.
• 37:34
  Oscar Navarro: They were like this little family.
• 37:35
  Oscar Navarro: That was like waiting for their older brother to come home.
• 37:38
  Oscar Navarro: And during COVID, my older, my younger, my brother, who's 10 years younger than me, was getting married.
• 37:44
  Oscar Navarro: He asked me to officiate the wedding.
• 37:45
  Oscar Navarro: So we're at the wedding and we're turning the corner.
• 37:48
  Oscar Navarro: In every corner I turned, my biological father is throwing his arm around me, saying have you met my son?
• 37:56
  Oscar Navarro: This is my son and for the first time, at 34, 35 years old, I knew what it was like to be loved by a father.
• 38:06
  Oscar Navarro: Reason why I share that story isn't just because it's a great story of reconciliation to me and my father.
• 38:11
  Oscar Navarro: It speaks to a greater story of our reconciliation to our father in heaven.
• 38:17
  Oscar Navarro: How could you be discouraged knowing that, through the blood of Christ, god, the father has his arm around you, saying this is my son, this is my daughter.
• 38:29
  Philip DeCourcy: Behold what manner of love the father have bestowed upon us and we should be called the sons Amen.
• 38:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you for making my eyeball sweat.
• 38:37
  Emeal Zwayne: Oscar that's so powerful.
• 38:39
  Emeal Zwayne: And you know, pastor, I love the fact that you talked about plotting on.
• 38:43
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, eric, little of chariots of fire fame.
• 38:45
  Emeal Zwayne: He said that famous line he would run as he was speaking with a sister because he felt the pleasure of God.
• 38:52
  Emeal Zwayne: And when you think about what he endured, I mean this is a guy that took a stand and wouldn't run in the race.
• 38:57
  Emeal Zwayne: He was favored to win Because it was on a Sunday and he had a conviction not to run on the Lord's day.
• 39:03
  Emeal Zwayne: We're on.
• 39:04
  Emeal Zwayne: So he ends up running, winning the 400.
• 39:05
  Emeal Zwayne: But you think of what, what he, what he had to Persevere through in order to get to that point.
• 39:11
  Emeal Zwayne: But he did it because he sensed the pleasure of God, which meant that he was where God wanted him to be, doing what God wanted him to do.
• 39:19
  Emeal Zwayne: And I've had people ask me before what is it that's caused you to press on in ministry?
• 39:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Because there's this misnomer, right, people see us in the limelight, they see us in moments of victory, when we're preaching, and maybe God moved, but they don't see us when we're we're.
• 39:30
  Emeal Zwayne: We're crying out God help me, as as we're struggling with attacks and we're dealing with all kinds of Discouragements.
• 39:36
  Emeal Zwayne: But?
• 39:37
  Emeal Zwayne: But my answer to them was it's because I know I'm doing what God has called me to do, and that's what helps us to press on.
• 39:44
  Oscar Navarro: So pastor, I want to read this.
• 39:45
  Emeal Zwayne: I want to read this quote by J I packer about the Puritans, and then I'd love you to comment it and then share whatever, yeah, you want to share.
• 39:49
  Emeal Zwayne: He said the Puritans were great souls serving a great God.
• 39:54
  Emeal Zwayne: In them, clear-headed passion and warm-hearted compassion combined, visionary and practical, idealistic and realistic, too, goal oriented and methodical.
• 40:04
  Emeal Zwayne: They were great believers, great hopers, great doers and great sufferers.
• 40:09
  Emeal Zwayne: But their sufferings, both sides of the ocean, in old England from the authorities and in new England from the elements, seasoned and ripened them till they gained a stature that was nothing short of heroic.
• 40:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Ease and luxury such as our affluence brings us today Do not make for maturity.
• 40:26
  Emeal Zwayne: Hardship and struggle, however, do, and the Puritans battles Against the spiritual and climactic wilderness in which God set them, produced a virility of character, undaunted and unsinkable, rising above discouragement and fears, for which the true precedents and models are men like Moses and Nehemiah, and Peter after Pentecost, and the apostle Paul.
• 40:51
  Philip DeCourcy: Yeah, you guys touched on this.
• 40:53
  Philip DeCourcy: Let's embrace the context of our discouragement not necessarily the discouragement and allow God to use our trials to complete us James 1, or to make us more persevering and enduring.
• 41:08
  Philip DeCourcy: The one old phrase that jumps out in what you just quoted is well, they were great hopers.
• 41:13
  Philip DeCourcy: And one of the things we haven't touched on and I wrote it down to make sure we got to this point is the importance of the doctrine of Jesus' return when it comes to discouragement.
• 41:25
  Philip DeCourcy: It's a huge theme.
• 41:26
  Philip DeCourcy: I mean, I was just looking here at 2 Corinthians, 4, 16,.
• 41:32
  Philip DeCourcy: Therefore, we do not lose heart, even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day for our light affliction, which is, but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, while we do not look at the things which you're seeing, but the things which are unseen.
• 41:51
  Philip DeCourcy: The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are unseen are eternal.
• 41:57
  Philip DeCourcy: And here's one example of the hope of Jesus' return, glorified state, and you heaven and you earth, rewarded by God reigning with Christ.
• 42:09
  Philip DeCourcy: We could go down the list of things that are set before the early believers.
• 42:13
  Philip DeCourcy: I mean.
• 42:14
  Philip DeCourcy: Look at Revelation 2 to 3, right, I just preached in Revelation on Sunday.
• 42:19
  Philip DeCourcy: Here's the church being persecuted under the mission, discouraged, some martyrdom is taking place and every single letter ends with the carrot of eternal life and eternal joy.
• 42:32
  Philip DeCourcy: You won't taste the second death, you'll reign with Christ.
• 42:35
  Philip DeCourcy: Your name's written down on a stone, and I just think that's important.
• 42:41
  Philip DeCourcy: I try to keep a robust eschatology alive in my life, remind myself that I live, like Martin Luther, this day for that day.
• 42:50
  Philip DeCourcy: Because of him, living for that day, I can endure this day.
• 42:54
  Philip DeCourcy: This is the ugly, short life.
• 42:56
  Philip DeCourcy: This is where the world hates us.
• 42:58
  Philip DeCourcy: This is living under the shadow of death.
• 43:02
  Philip DeCourcy: This isn't the sunlight of God's glory, this isn't the eternal state.
• 43:07
  Philip DeCourcy: Ray and I are great fans of Margaret Thatcher and I remember she said I can be extraordinarily patient so long as I get my way in the end.
• 43:21
  Philip DeCourcy: Can you be patient when you know the finish lines just around the corner, when you know what lies on the other side of the hill?
• 43:31
  Philip DeCourcy: Hb Charles is a friend of mine.
• 43:34
  Philip DeCourcy: We just preached together.
• 43:35
  Philip DeCourcy: He told a great story that reinforces this also of a pastor who was ganged up in his church and basically voted out.
• 43:42
  Philip DeCourcy: And the night that he ends as ministry he gathers his stuff, he's walking out to the car lab, he's about to get into his car.
• 43:50
  Philip DeCourcy: It's a scourging moment one can imagine.
• 43:52
  Philip DeCourcy: His heart's got to be in his shoes and an old deacon follows him out and he's heartbroken and a bit of a supporter of the pastor and he says to him pastor, what are you going to do now?
• 44:02
  Philip DeCourcy: And he says, well, I'm going to heaven.
• 44:04
  Philip DeCourcy: And he goes what do you mean?
• 44:06
  Philip DeCourcy: You're going to heaven.
• 44:07
  Philip DeCourcy: We know you're going to heaven, but what are you going to do now?
• 44:09
  Philip DeCourcy: He says I'm going to heaven and at the point is we're all going to heaven and we've got to keep that very much at the front of our mind because it will help us endure.
• 44:21
  Philip DeCourcy: The old pastor was saying this kind of sucks to some degree.
• 44:25
  Philip DeCourcy: I don't like it, but I'm going to heaven.
• 44:28
  Philip DeCourcy: I lost this, I'll live this and I love that little story.
• 44:33
  Philip DeCourcy: And if we need to remind ourselves every day we're going to heaven, get up, keep going.
• 44:37
  Philip DeCourcy: Christ's victory yeah.
• 44:38
  Mark Spence: We have to remember.
• 44:39
  Mark Spence: Let's have a lofty view of God's sovereignty.
• 44:41
  Mark Spence: Things are not falling apart, they're falling into place.
• 44:43
  Mark Spence: Think about that.
• 44:45
  Mark Spence: That's not original, but it's so true.
• 44:47
  Mark Spence: Things are not falling apart, they're falling into place.
• 44:51
  Mark Spence: I love this little scripture they that worship the Lord must worship him in spirit and in truth.
• 44:55
  Mark Spence: And this idea of truth.
• 44:57
  Mark Spence: It speaks of two different things.
• 44:58
  Mark Spence: One we're obviously very familiar with we worship the correct God, so the more we get to know God, the more things will begin to make sense within his economy.
• 45:07
  Mark Spence: And the second, maybe not so much, but it speaks of worshiping God with an honest tongue, with an honest life, where you can go to the Lord, you can approach the Lord and you can say I'm confused or I don't feel like worshiping you.
• 45:19
  Mark Spence: It's like that AW Tozer quote I don't desire you, but I desire to want to have a desire for you.
• 45:25
  Mark Spence: That's all I have right now and that's what I'm bringing before you.
• 45:28
  Mark Spence: And so the Lord draws near.
• 45:30
  Mark Spence: So when we worship God in the midst of these, in the midst of the chaos, right, we have to understand that God doesn't need any counsel.
• 45:38
  Mark Spence: Right, if he needed wisdom, you wouldn't know about it.
• 45:41
  Mark Spence: He knows what he's doing inside of our lives, right?
• 45:45
  Mark Spence: If you're a Christian, listen, we've read the last chapter.
• 45:48
  Mark Spence: You know God wins, right and everything.
• 45:51
  Mark Spence: Spoiler alert, spoiler alert, right?
• 45:53
  Mark Spence: So this is not an issue, it's an opportunity.
• 45:56
  Mark Spence: I don't know what you're going through, but I know who's going through that with you.
• 46:01
  Mark Spence: That's good, amen, right, and so have your eyes on the Lord.
• 46:03
  Mark Spence: When your eyes are on the Lord, you really, reverentially, can mock the tumultuous storm?
• 46:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Absolutely, ray.
• 46:09
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, one of the things about Paul the apostle that has been an encouragement to me was seeing how he would see light in the midst of darkness, and this is one of my favorite passages that demonstrates that.
• 46:19
  Emeal Zwayne: St Corinthians 4, 8 to 11.
• 46:21
  Emeal Zwayne: We are hard pressed on every side, yet not crushed.
• 46:25
  Emeal Zwayne: We're perplexed but not in despair, persecuted but not forsaken, struck down but not destroyed, always caring about, in the body, the dying of the Lord Jesus.
• 46:36
  Emeal Zwayne: That the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body, for we who live are always delivered to death.
• 46:41
  Emeal Zwayne: For Jesus' sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
• 46:45
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, he's highlighting all those points of negativity, but he's coming back by encouraging himself and saying, hey, there's this, but look, we're not here.
• 46:55
  Emeal Zwayne: And ultimately, even with death, he's pointing toward life, the life of Christ shining through us.
• 47:00
  Ray Comfort: You saw what I read that now.
• 47:01
  Ray Comfort: Devotions last night.
• 47:03
  Emeal Zwayne: Wow and.
• 47:03
  Ray Comfort: I'm just thinking that, talking about darkness and looking for the light, I think the darkest time ever for the disciples were the night of just before the resurrection.
• 47:11
  Emeal Zwayne: There's absolute horror.
• 47:13
  Ray Comfort: Who would have believed such a thing could take place?
• 47:15
  Ray Comfort: And he walked on the sea, multiplied fishes, he raised the dead.
• 47:18
  Ray Comfort: And here he is taken from us by this horrific death.
• 47:21
  Ray Comfort: And yet look what was coming.
• 47:22
  Ray Comfort: Look at the.
• 47:24
  Ray Comfort: When the sun came up up, came the sun.
• 47:26
  Mark Spence: Oh, that's a good quote.
• 47:27
  Mark Spence: Right, put your hands down.
• 47:27
  Mark Spence: Right Comfort.
• 47:29
  Emeal Zwayne: You spent the whole week.
• 47:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Don't forget that one, that one's original.
• 47:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, pastor, this has been absolutely fabulous.
• 47:36
  Emeal Zwayne: I can't believe how quickly the time has flown and we've got to have you back for sure.
• 47:40
  Emeal Zwayne: But I want friends.
• 47:42
  Emeal Zwayne: You've now tasted.
• 47:43
  Emeal Zwayne: You've heard of us talk about Pastor Phil for so long here on the podcast, but now you've tasted a bit of You've narrowly noticed.
• 47:49
  Ray Comfort: it's not true what it means.
• 47:51
  Emeal Zwayne: You've discovered why we should leave the church.
• 47:53
  Emeal Zwayne: No, but you've tasted of Church.
• 47:55
  Emeal Zwayne: Discipline is coming.
• 47:56
  Emeal Zwayne: You've tasted of what Mark and I get to taste of weekly and why we've been so blessed, and especially to see our family fed.
• 48:05
  Emeal Zwayne: But, Pastor, I'd love you to tell our listeners just about your ministry about Know the Truth, your radio ministry about Kindred, the Church that's in Anaheim.
• 48:13
  Emeal Zwayne: We'd love to invite anyone who'd love to come visit to come by.
• 48:15
  Emeal Zwayne: But Phil, the people and maybe any books you've got that are available, Sure, I mean, hey we love people to come by the church.
• 48:22
  Philip DeCourcy: If they're in our area they can go to kindredchurchorg and you'll get all kinds of information about church services and Bible studies in small groups and training seminars that we put on.
• 48:33
  Philip DeCourcy: And then the radio's a joy, something I never expected, but God in His goodness has opened that door for me and I embrace it.
• 48:42
  Philip DeCourcy: I love First Thessalonians 1.
• 48:44
  Philip DeCourcy: From you echoed out, From you sounded out, the word of God, and I think radio and podcasting just gives me another avenue by which to do that.
• 48:53
  Philip DeCourcy: And God has been good and we'd love to people to connect with us at kttorg.
• 48:57
  Philip DeCourcy: We've got a brand new website.
• 48:59
  Philip DeCourcy: We've got an app they can download and listen to the sermons.
• 49:03
  Philip DeCourcy: We've got a list of materials.
• 49:05
  Philip DeCourcy: I'm not necessarily going to push anyone book.
• 49:07
  Philip DeCourcy: I've written a book about my time in the police.
• 49:09
  Philip DeCourcy: I've written a book on the role of women in the church.
• 49:13
  Philip DeCourcy: I've written a book on contentment.
• 49:15
  Philip DeCourcy: I've written a book on anxiety.
• 49:16
  Philip DeCourcy: It's all there.
• 49:17
  Philip DeCourcy: Just go to kttorg and hit the resources page.
• 49:20
  Philip DeCourcy: We also have just launched a small little podcast called so True Devotionals, where I just take like a five, seven minutes bite-sized theology perspective and bring that to people.
• 49:33
  Philip DeCourcy: So look just like yourselves.
• 49:35
  Philip DeCourcy: We're just in the business of preaching Christ, exalting Him, getting God's word out, because having an earth will pass away, but the word of the Lord will endure forever.
• 49:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, When's your book?
• 49:46
  Oscar Navarro: Pasturing, Two Knuckleheads come out.
• 49:50
  Philip DeCourcy: Well, there you have it Because I'll be a best seller.
• 49:52
  Philip DeCourcy: Actually, that would be a great title, wouldn't it?
• 49:55
  Ray Comfort: The past is pasting to knuckleheads.
• 49:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, there you have it, friends.
• 49:59
  Emeal Zwayne: The Alsternite himself will have a tab where you can have a translation into real English if you didn't understand a word he said.
• 50:06
  Emeal Zwayne: But thank you for joining us, friends.
• 50:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Hey, don't forget why Jesus by Ray Comfort, the Living Waters Mug and the Amateur Study Bible all at livingwaterscom.
• 50:13
  Emeal Zwayne: Remember to comment and to also subscribe to the podcast.
• 50:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Again, you have helped us become one of the top podcasts in the world, with a five-star rating.
• 50:22
  Emeal Zwayne: Keep it up, friends.
• 50:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you for joining us.
• 50:25
  Emeal Zwayne: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast.
• 50:30
  Emeal Zwayne: The ultimate cure for insomnia.